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Comments on: Sony Introduces Two Models with Keyboards, MP3 Players

Update: Sony has announced that these models will be available in the U.S. in May.

Sony Japan has just introduced two new cutting-edge handhelds. The PEG-NR70 and PEG-NR70V both have built-in keyboards and 320 by 480 color screens. They also have built-in MP3 and ATRAC3 audio players. In addition, the PEG-NR70V has a built-in camera.

These have a clamshell design, with the keyboard on one side and the screen on the other. However, the screen can pivot around and then close again, this time with the screen facing out, allowing these to be used like a traditional handheld, with text entry done through a virtual Graffiti area.

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WOW

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:31:22 AM #
And the screen even swivels from left to right:
http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/peg/Nr/index.html

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:46:50 AM #
you don't get it, it swivels all the way around, to be used like a traditional PDA too!!

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:47:17 AM #
And in case anyone cares, the connector of NR series is the same as the T series.

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:49:03 AM #
I found two models as T425 and T625 in Sony Germany website.
But I don't know German. Do anyone have idea on that
Thanks

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:10:05 AM #
T425 Thin with mono screen.
T625 Thin with color.

The same as US's T-series

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:30:03 AM #
Holy Crap! I am happily eating my hat now!

I posted the incorrect comment saying that the new models from Sony were only supposed to be phones not Palms. I am glad I was wrong!!!

THIS IS THE WAY ALL PALMS SHOULD HAVE BEEN AND WILL BE!

(Kinda like the Linux based Yopy)

Now weez gonna have sum real fun!!!


RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:45:45 AM #
is your hat cooked ? add some steak sauce too it'll taste better :)

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:51:35 AM #
Well, this kinda makes anything from Palm, Handspring and especially the Handera look like crap. I can just picture the flood of eBay auctions from people dumping their old PDA's.

Well, Handspring is on the way out and I think this put s a stake through Handera pretty much. Maybe Palm should start making PocketPC's..

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:05:18 AM #
Ed, you seem to fail to mention it can
record too.
This function is very important to some people.

If the news is not from this web site, I would
probably say this is fake. :-)

Unbelievable. Sony do a great job again.


RE: WOW
mstur @ 3/11/2002 3:00:07 AM #
Sorry to say this, but I think these are just new toys for geeks and Sony lovers ;-)

These new Palms are no more organizers. They are a hybrid between a digital camera, a notebook and a Palm.
I would not like to carry one of these on my belt...

I would rather have a faster internet connection over my mobile phone than a larger screen and a camera !

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:16:52 AM #
Just add the bluetooth module to one of these beauties and you have your fast internet connection.

Anything else?
I shouldn't think so.

WOW

Cheers,
Jan

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:20:01 AM #
"These new Palms are no more organizers. They are a hybrid between a digital camera, a notebook and a Palm.
I would not like to carry one of these on my belt..."

Why is it not an organizer, you can always buy the one with no camera, and yeah there are many ppl buying PDA, and not all of them are like you, some people like to pay a little bit more ($0 - $100) more for a device with more functions. e.g. have mp3 play back capability, with a built-in keyboard.

It's as good as an organizer as any palm PDA out there, if not better considering it has virtual grafitti. Anyways Sony always emphasis on multimedia so putting in a bigger screen with virtual grafitti , faster CPU , camera and mp3 player is just the natural way to go.

I'd love to carry one of these on my belt, why ?? because it's right about as big as the M525 and has more capability.

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:36:12 AM #
1. Bluetooth is fast, but it ends 10 feet from your Palm. There is no Bluetooth infrastructure, contrary to what is now avaiable with WiFi.

A mobile will get you the same speed a 56 K will provide. This is too slow for most needs.

2. I really see only a very small niche for these palms. There will be even more software problems than with the older Sony hirez screens.

3. I would buy one with an ARM processor and Palm OS 5, UMTS connection built-in.

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:38:45 AM #
They have really raqised the bar with these two offerings. As other posters have pointed out, Palm and Handspring are really going to have to pull out the stops to match or surpass this.

As to the poster saying he wouldn't use it. That's fine. The product isn't for you. Just like a Lexus isn't for some while a Neon is. Personally I'd go with the Lexus, just like I am considering when (ever ) this one arrives in Europe. Of course by the time it gets here Arm based machines will b just around the corner... maybe its worth waiting after all?



RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:43:54 AM #
Actually i don't think it will cause compatibility problem

There are basically 2 types of applications, those that takes advantage of the big softgrafitti screen, probably most of those are written and maintained by sony, so they should know how to clean up their own mess. And those that doesnt take advantage of the big screen, for those apps, the grafitti area will always be visible.

anyways it's not like this device will be running OS 5, so there should be no OS 5 migration compatibility problems too.

Reuters on New Sony PDA's and Bluetooth Memory Stick
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 5:55:46 AM #
Reuters: Sony unveils high-end laptop, handheld computers
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020311/t51960_1.html



RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:23:51 AM #
Does anyone have an audio file (.mp3, .wav or .au are all fine) of the noise this makes when a car backs over it? Probably about the same as a Vx, with the exception of the screams of the owner once they notice what's happened.

All the bells and whistles just distract users from the overall purpose - to organize your life, not to waste more time!

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:01:29 PM #
>>Well, Handspring is on the way out and I think this >>put s a stake through Handera pretty much. Maybe >>Palm should start making PocketPC's..

Don't be an fool, remember that Palm makes the OS, if it weren't for Palm we would not have our Clies.

-----------------------------
I love my Clie, and I love Palm. Do you?

Waaaaaaaaaaaa!
michaelfurman @ 3/12/2002 1:46:30 PM #
"Its not an organizer anymore!" Sniff Sniff! Well?! So what!! I personally will giggle my butt off when I can cary hundreds of pages of tech manuals, zoomable images, and be able to create new images of production parts on the fly, e-mail them to China and NY right from the production floor. Holy Crap! This is like the road warrior's equivalent of a Swiss Army Knife. Listing to techno when I like will be pure gravy!
BTW I've been a power user since the Palm 5000 first came out in late 1996. This is my 4th upgrade.
Anyone wanna buy a cheap Prism with all the doo-dads?
-myk-

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 5:42:05 PM #
Er, it doesn't record.


RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 8:38:14 PM #
So what if it has all these additional uses and functions? It is less to carry then. No need to carry seperate pda, mp3 player, bulky digital camera etc etc. An all in one unit is ideal. Those who don't want nothing more than a organiser - fine, there are plenty of basic organisers to choose from. No need to diss this promising achievement. This is what many of us have been waiting for. :)

how about

cp31 @ 3/11/2002 12:32:29 AM #
how about:
virtual grafiti
imporved speaker for wav files
voice recorder
what is the japanese price tranfered 2 US dollars

RE: how about
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:56:55 AM #
Price should be $399 for the one w/o camera and $499 with, I think.

RE: how about
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:04:21 AM #
Close enough.

Yen/US$ = 128.6

W/Camera - Y 59,800 = $ 465
W/o Camera - Y 49,800 = $ 387


This is Japan. Prices in the US (if they ever get there, or should I say WHEN) should be closer to 499 and 399.

RE: how about
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:08:59 AM #
Should be within one month after Japan release. That's what happened to the T-series

RE: how about
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:17:26 AM #
Then put me in cryo and wake me in May! This far surpasses anything I have ever seen in a PDA. Thank God it's Palm OS, thank God it's using a established (albeit just barely) connector.

320x480?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:32:49 AM #
Doesn't the PalmOS API only support multiples of 160?

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:35:03 AM #
http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/CorporateCruise/Press/200203/02-0311B/

Nicer picture and more info here in Japanese!

Dragonball SuperVZi66MHzj
320~480dotsA65,536 Color
1 Megapixel Camera

PEGA-MSB1 Memory Stick Bluetooth

RE: 320x480?
cp31 @ 3/11/2002 12:35:09 AM #
160 times 3= 480

RE: 320x480?
LarryGarfield @ 3/11/2002 5:39:44 AM #
The "basic" PalmOS supports 160x160 only, period, end of story. Sony developed an API for their previous CLIEs that duplicated the drawing functions for 320x320 only, period, end of story screens. How they're handling this screen, I don't know.

HandEra's screen API was completely different, and separated the current resolution from the API functions, making it more elaborate but also more flexible.

--
This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:07:25 AM #
more like 320x320 with graffiti n 320 x 480 without.... do abt the same as handera in management]

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:40:20 PM #
>"Sony developed an API for their previous CLIEs that duplicated the drawing functions for 320x320 only, period, end of story screens. How they're handling this screen, I don't know.

>HandEra's screen API was completely different, and separated the current resolution from the API functions, making it more elaborate but also more flexible."

I've done development with the sony hi-res API and its a snap. An app that i just did detects if its a Sony w/hi-res and then uses the hi-res functions - which are identical to the Palm API functions except the name of each function has a 'HR' prefixed to the function name - virtually a mirror of every Palm OS graphics function. Any x and y paremeters must of course change to reflect 320 x 320, but that is all - nothing new for Palm programmers to learn in order to implement. I dont see how you could beat this. You could come up with a more flexible open ended approach that deals with different resolutions (which i expect is what we'll see in PalmOS 5.0) but for now, the Sony approach has been elegant, easy, no compatibility problems.

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 4:13:01 PM #
> the Sony approach has been elegant, easy, no
> compatibility problems.

As long as you only ever use it on a 320x320 display. I'd call that unelegant and ripe for future compatability problems.

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 4:17:50 PM #
huh !? According to what he said, fixing compatibility problem between OS 5 and sony version of high res is pretty simple. Basically you just need to change the name or Sony can write a wrap function.

I guess it doesn't matter to you, all you care is Sony is using something not standard in Palm OS, so you could go on some online forum and post it for 100 times.

RE: 320x480?
atrizzah @ 3/12/2002 5:16:26 PM #
No, I agree with him. What happens when the change resolutions again? Soon they'll need functions with other prefixes and so on. There are better ways of doing it.

Peace Out
Alan
RE: 320x480?
ihxo @ 3/12/2002 5:24:16 PM #
"No, I agree with him. What happens when the change resolutions again? Soon they'll need functions with other prefixes and so on. There are better ways of doing it."

No I don't agree with you :P There is not other better ways to do this right now, sony wants higher res for photo and stuff like that, so they made a new API just for their high res, and so happen the function call of those high res is basically the same as the old Low res.

example:
Low Res:
DrawScreen(a,b,c)
High Res:
HRDrawScreen(a,b,c)

How hard would it be for Sony to redirect their High Res Function calls back to low res function call when palm OS 5 comes out? very easy, they always take the same parameter of data.

RE: 320x480?
xumdeo @ 3/12/2002 9:18:17 PM #
320x480 is for idle mode (calendar, time display) or image display (as a "picture frame" that's wht sony said), i think
so basically, i'm looking at the shortcut buttons, the extra time display icon under the software-graffiti area, just like yer system tray, u see that?

but when yer using the on screen keyboad, that would "substitute" the graffiti area, but that's the jap version, dunno what would happen when they ship them to us...

http://www.palmoslove.com/work/feature/nr70/nr70-19b.jpg

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 10:56:28 PM #
I wrote the first comment about the sony API being easy to use. i really dont see the issue here - PalmSource gave it their blessing and until os 5.0 its the only way to go - and a great solution to bringing hi-res to palm devices without requiring developers to learn a damn thing extra - that is what i call 'elegant'. Anyone disagreeing - especially lame if they are saying its a 'hack' when Palm has worked hand in hand with sony on dev issues - doesnt realize how bad some other implemantions of the APIs are. Case in point: Kyocera. They have virtually no support for developers, they've got an sdk which only discusses their 'telephony' API addon, and no ROM files for the Palm emulator (esential for debugging). This wouldn't be bad, except that they claim that for all non-telephony PalmOS features, the API "should be the same as an equivalent Palm OS device" - meaning that, since the kyocera is OS 3.51 (like the m1xx series i believe), then if your code works for those other devices, then it will work for Kyocera. NOT TRUE!!! I ran into bugs in their implementation that i had to pin-point and work around, figuring it all out myself without any support from Kyocera.

But the worst 'hack' of the OS comes from PalmSource itself: Palm OS 4.0. The 'money people' at Palm decided that, although $$ could be made by charging users of older machines for this upgrade, they knew that m5xx users wouldn't shell $40 just to fix bugs in the device they just bought. They also new that - with a price war going between them, Handspring and Sony - that profit margins were tight so they weren't about to make the upgrade free to m5xx users.

Their solution? Tell everybody that '4.1 is just for older devices - m5xx users dont need this cause its the same'. They blatantly mislead everybody in an attempt to save $$$ and the result is that users get screwed with software that craps out and developers get screwed with the blame and responsibility (and cost - it took me 2 wks to work around OS 4.0 bugs) of finding work-arounds.

Sony 'hacked' the OS??? Please!!!

PS - The above can be verified as fact by any member of Palms Dev program - there is a ROM file called 'paltform41_m505enUS.rom' (it may still be on their sit - im not sure)that confirms that they originally planned to release 4.1 for m505 users (this is the only Palm rom file i know of where this has happened), before the PalmSource management decided not to release this in order to save money. I love Palm OS and will continue to develop for it - but screw whatever idiot at PalmSource was responsible for this - YOU COST MY COMPANY $$$$$$!!!!!!

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 10:56:31 PM #
> There is not other better ways to do this right now,
> sony wants higher res for photo and stuff like that,
> so they made a new API just for their high res, and
> so happen the function call of those high res is
> basically the same as the old Low res.

There was no need to make a new API. You should look at how HandEra implemented this. They just use the standard Palm OS APIs for hi-res graphics. There is a resource you set to specify that the app can handle hi-res (otherwise it runs in the user specifed compatibility mode). Once that hi-res resource is set, you just use the standard Palm APIs to access the hi-res screen.

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 11:25:21 PM #
>"There is a resource you set to specify that the app can handle hi-res (otherwise it runs in the user specifed compatibility mode). Once that hi-res resource is set, you just use the standard Palm APIs to access the hi-res screen."

I haven't looked at the handspring SDK. How does this work if you wish to uses both standard and hi-res at the same time?? With the Sony API, this is easy. And yes - somtimes you do wish to use both - keeping with standard for basic lines and interface element and only going to hi-res where the detail would be noticeable to Clie users.

RE: 320x480?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 11:08:23 AM #
There should never be a both. What you are implying is that there should be a separate API for each possible resolution. That is the wrong way to code any user interface. The Palm OS provides functions to get the screen size, and developers need to start using them. It is unfortunate that the Palm OS got stuck on 160x160 for so long, and all of its apps until recently were hardcoded to 160x160. What Sony has done with its hi-res hack just perpetuates the existing problem.

Um ...

j888 @ 3/11/2002 12:31:47 AM #
Um, thanks for the credit Ed ... :(

On a brighter note, this is one stunning move for the Palm OS. Whilst the rest of this thread will turn into a 'who is best' Palm vs Sony argument (again), I hope as Palm OS fans we can step back and appreciate the innovation announced today - regardless of which brand device we own: this is a significant step forward for Palm OS' future. With devices like these, the Palm OS now has a model for every budget and every need (the argument that there are perhaps too many models which will saturate the market is another story altogether).

Well done Sony for the breath of fresh air! Well done Palm OS!

RE: Um ...
Ed @ 3/11/2002 12:43:11 AM #
I didn't get anything from you. What did you send?

---
News Editor
RE: Um ...
j888 @ 3/11/2002 1:15:12 AM #
No biggie, but you can see who found the press release link first here ;)

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J19C3238

Thanks


RE: Um ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:24:01 AM #
Although personally I would not buy any of these, but rather a Palm M515, it shure is great to see this innovation on the Palm platform, and it will help keeping the Palm platform stand strong against M$ PPc.
No need to fight whatever is the best, the best unit is the one that suits your needs the best. It's great to have more choice and as a Palm fan I can only praise Sony for this.

Marco Schouten.

RE: Um ...
Lock @ 3/11/2002 5:17:55 AM #
I agree with Marco.

New Sony is really a jewel (err... how to write? ;]P).
However it will take a lot of time to reach here (where "here" is <>japan).
Since I need a nice handheld now I'll buy a 515 that's almost half weight.
Yes, there's not comparison between these two, Palm one is lower; if I have to choose now, in a shop, I'd buy Sony but at the moment here in italy there's 515 (well, bad Sony strategy still didn't bring here any model!).

Good work to Sony, anyway... :]

RE: Um ...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:18:44 PM #
Agree with you guys.

altought my next purchase will be a Clie T615 (I don't need a keboard or 320x480 screen), I really praise Sony for their new models. This expands the Palm OS in to different markets.

Something I would like to clarify is that PalmSource mentioned they wanted the OS to run on different kinds of hardware. Whith models like these the Palm OS is expanding for differnt kinds of users, there are models for every need from simple organizers to multimedia devices.

With the Pocket PC there are just bulky and multimedia devices, with Palm OS you have a choice.

Also the figh between Sony fans and Palm fans should stop. There is no better models only models suited for different uses.

Arrrggghhhhh !

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:34:46 AM #
I just bought my Clie T615C, and now Sony comes out with this ... Damn, gotta get rid of my Clie and get one of these new Clies :) ... Hehee :) ...

DID ANYONE NOTICE IT'S RUNNING ON 66MHz DragonBall ? :) ...

RE: Arrrggghhhhh !
cp31 @ 3/11/2002 12:38:13 AM #
wow. what do u think it will cost here in America. also, can the 66mhgz be overclocked. also again, how would normal apps run on the enw resoltuion

RE: Arrrggghhhhh !
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:13:54 AM #
i just got a n 760.......ARH!..... any tradein offers???:)

RE: Be prepared to Arrrggghhhhh ! again
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:23:46 PM #
Don't worry, right after these newest Sony's ship there will be something even better announced. Having the latest bleeding-edge toy is an expensive hobby.

-G

RE: Arrrggghhhhh !
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/17/2002 2:07:41 PM #
Have you been able to find a Keyboard for the T615?

spec. links in japanese

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:37:24 AM #

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME??!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:42:58 AM #
This is DEFINITETLY my next PDA. T615, we've had a good, short run, but this is my next PDA. GEEEEZUS, when will they stop innovating?!

YEAH BABY!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:44:51 AM #
Sony ROcks!!!
WOW!!

A WORD OF WARNING TO THE DROOLERS
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:11:54 AM #
And don't get me wrong--I'm sittin' in a puddle of the stuff myself.

It is all too likely that the first few batches will have all kinds of disappointing glitches. Just sit back and wait a little while. "Be cool, dude. Be cool."


When Palm, Inc. goes out of business? (NT)
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:30:35 AM #
NT

DON'T BE BRAINWASHED

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:42:26 AM #
Sony is a wonderful company, and I have a N760C rite now and am pretty happy. However, these new handhelds are really nice, but I *think* i see what Sony is doing now. Just before the New XScale high speed proccessors w/Palm OS5 become available, sony releases two *dazzling super duper special* pda's for people to druel over. They'll buy them insanely, and then sony will come out and say "Hey everyone! look at this! It's the new Sony xxxxxxx with the Xscale processor! Then u will feel like crap and eventually buy a new one (most people). With Macromedia Flash, Streaming video available for the new Xscale's, I'd just wait.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:46:03 AM #
Agreed, when the PalmOS5 based products are annouced, you will regerd buying this thingy

But then again, this sure looks sweet.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:50:04 AM #
you paranoid, just keep your crappy 760
You have to understand that these new PDAS are for the JAPANESE market, becouse the turnover time over there for new releases is less than one year.


RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:50:18 AM #
No one is getting bain washed here ...
well it's not like palm's not doing the same anyways.

O well maybe both palm and sony are cooperating to brainwash everybody. I am so scared.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:00:58 AM #
$385!!! Well, which would you pick? An m515, or this? Dumb***, Sony is winning market here, while Palm is not doing anything. Thank god Sony does something in the Palm market!

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:17:22 AM #

PalmOS5 this, PalmOS5 that...
Well of course going to PalmOS5 and StrongARM is going to make the platform smaller and the battery last longer?


RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:22:27 AM #
I think this only indicate something even more crazier is going to happen when they uses the Xscale processor.

Palm please brainwash me like sony did anytime you like.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:25:30 AM #
The larger screen is impressive, so is the 66mhz processor. The clamshell hinge and screen swivel hinge are going to send a lot of these things back to Sony for repair.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:32:20 AM #
"The clamshell hinge and screen swivel hinge are going to send a lot of these things back to Sony for repair."

Thanks for your info.

But I think I'll wait to see the real thing before saying ut'll fall apart. I think sony made some even more complicated gadgets than this before, so falling apart should not be an issue.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:39:22 AM #
I'm a little confused... does this have two hinges or one? I.e. does the camera section attach by hinges to both the screen AND the keyboard? If so, your MS will be flapping in the breeze!

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:19:54 AM #
"I'm a little confused... does this have two hinges or one? I.e. does the camera section attach by hinges to both the screen AND the keyboard? If so, your MS will be flapping in the breeze!"

The camera is attached to the keyboard directly, so basically there are 2 parts

first part:
Screen

second part:
MS Slot
Camera
keyboard

First part and second part are attached together with a hinge that flips for about 180 degrees.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:05:30 AM #
Additionally, there is a pivot where the screen meets the hinge, enabling the screen to swivel around and close back down with the screen out but the keyboard sandwiched safely inside.

I agree that is seems like an awful lot of moving parts that could break. Sony isn't know for their helpfulness when this sort of thing happens.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 7:17:37 PM #
"The clamshell hinge and screen swivel hinge are going to send a lot of these things back to Sony for repair."

My Sony camcorder has an LCD screen with a hinge that folds out for viewing by the operator. The screen also swivels 180 degrees for viewing by those being recorded. Sony has sold an awful lot of camcorders and seems to have the hinge and swivel thing worked out.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
xumdeo @ 3/12/2002 9:26:16 PM #
exactly, i don't think that'll be a problem, who's not flipping the screen with their laptops???? who's not careful when they're using these expensive yet amazing lil gadgets? all we need is some care and dedication. it'll be fine.

RE: DON'T BE BRAINWASHED
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:20:30 AM #
<< $385!!! Well, which would you pick? An m515, or this? >>

I think it's important to keep perspective here. $385 is based on conversion from Yen. It is NOT the "US$ Price." Electronics are generally cheaper in Japan than they'll be in the US when introduced. Combine that with the price drop on the N760, and it looks like the NR70 should release in the US at about $450, with the NR70V at either $500 or $550. What's more, the m515 will likely drop in price to, say, $350. So there will likely be devices for EVERY taste at many price points. Variety is the benefit of capitalism.

But, naturally, some idiot sees the new Sony as an opportunity to slam Palm. Perhaps you should read the above thread that states that 1) these new models are VERY impressive, 2) they WON'T be the device for EVERYONE, and 3) the whole "Palm vs. Sony" controversy should end. Or perhaps you should read the article on Brighthand, which says essentially the SAME THING.

Like I say, let's keep some perspective here...

Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:47:54 AM #
Everyone thinks it was the prototype of the next generation ARM-powered Palm device. I am very surprised that Sony productized it in such a fast pace. It runs DragonBall but it still very cool!!

wookie


Pretty quick...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:51:53 AM #
One must say, even with almost unlimited resourced at hand, from the time they said 'non-working prototype' at PalmSource till today is rather quick for finishing a project.

Ok, till now I was more than happy with my M505 and none of the Sony Clie models would do it for me, also due to the Memorystick question...but, I think it is about time to seriously re-think my 'strategy' now.

Luckily, I live in Asia and getting one should be no more than 2 weeks.... I might just go for it.

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:36:55 AM #
What makes you think the device shown off at PalmSource really was a non-working prototype?

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
Ed @ 3/11/2002 1:58:05 AM #
I'll have to make a note to myself that Sony's PR people will lie to me. I'm used to getting "No comment" but what I was told at PalmSource about this handheld was deliberately deceptive. I'm not mad or anything, sometimes that's the way the game is played, but I'll keep it in mind in the future.

---
News Editor
RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
j888 @ 3/11/2002 2:49:56 AM #
It's wise to take everything PR people tell you with a pinch of salt - but I wouldn't be hard on you or them.

Sometimes, PR people are the last to find out about new release plans (I know, my ex-gf's did PR for Palm); because they're the first leak liability.

They may have lied to you to throw you off the scent. But my guess is they were just the messenger; they genuinely were ignorant of the real plan and carrying the company message passed on to them by management in Japan. This is specially likely because Japanese corporations sometimes treat their foreign subsidiaries like competition and the latter is kept in the dark till the last minute - when the master plan has been finalised at global HQ (I've dealt with Nintendo's European PR before and they generally do not have a clue about anything).

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:54:14 AM #
Sorry, but it was Masanobu Yoshida, president of Sony's Handheld Computer Company, not just 'some' PR person

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:56:45 AM #
You mean Ed talked with Masanobu Yoshida ?? ~~..

Masanobu Yoshida said the one he's holding is a nonfunctional prototype, does that mean he doesnt have one in his pocket that's totally functional ?? :P

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
Ed @ 3/11/2002 4:03:59 AM #
Of course I spoke with Sony's U.S. PR people after Mr. Yoshida's speech was over. That's where I was told what Mr Yoshida had shown was a non-working mockup. It's possible that was true or they didn't know the truth themselves. But its also possible they were deliberately sending me off the scent. If so, that's unusual for them; normally they would have just said "No comment". Like I said, I'm not mad. I just have to remember it.

The funny part about this is the head of Sony's U.S. Cli PR team will almost certainly read this and probably give me a call about it.

---
News Editor

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 6:59:39 PM #
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the 66htz Dragon Ball is a high-bred ARM device that emulates the original Dragon Ball instruction set. So it wouldn't necessarily be a lie to call it ARM based (just misleading).

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
ihxo @ 3/12/2002 7:11:00 PM #
The ARM based DragonBall VZ is called MX1 it'll run at 200 Mhz.

The DraagonBall Super VZ is running at 66 MHz

RE: Exactly the same as the prototype shown in PalmSource
xumdeo @ 3/12/2002 9:31:20 PM #
what's the problem with that? same as prototype? it's good for us.
we've been looking at prototypes of all kinds of products for years, and none of them would actually come out. but sony is making the impossible prototype to a possible real-one. that's good for us. and that's what we want (and sony knows that)

and of course, this is THEIR PRODUCT and this is THIER company, they have the right to keep away anything on commercial basis. if these things are leacked, do u think we'll be crazy about it rite now? i luv **reasonable** surprises, what about u?

Battery Life?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:49:23 AM #
Hmmmm, This is just nice. But, with 320x480+66Mhz CPU+16Mhz RAM+10MB Flash or even with a camera, how long can it last?

RE: Battery Life?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:58:09 AM #
According to the specs on the site, it says 10 days, and footnote says estimate based on 30 minutes a day ... so I would guess the battery life is about 5 hours :) ...

RE: Battery Life?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 12:58:26 AM #
7 hrs of audio playback (screen off)

RE: Battery Life?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:42:03 AM #
Mmmmm..... five hour? you mean even one hour less than T615C? I wonder will Sony sell swappable batteries like the ones used on cell phone?

RE: Battery Life?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:06:25 AM #
Yes, Sony is releasing a battery adapter PEGA-BC10 where you can use the normal AAA batteries.

- Eugene


RE: Battery Life?
Altema @ 3/13/2002 1:00:58 PM #
Too bad it's not better on this otherwise great device. I don't feel like carrying a charger or battery pack around with me to charge it in the afternoon. When the battery tech improves enough to make it 8 to 10 hours, I'd buy it in a minute... assuming that it still has no direct competitors by that time. Hey PPC, need fresh underwear?

Soon to appear outside of Japan

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:04:27 AM #
The new Sonys will appear in Australia around May 2002. Since Australia normally is the 'last' to get PDAs into it's relatively small market, expect these Clies to appear in the US before May 2002.

RE: Soon to appear outside of Japan
I.M. Anonymous @ 5/11/2002 1:05:12 AM #
hmmm.....australia a small market....someone ought to educate you.......we have the largest population of palm users, internet users, pc owners, and anything else per capita in the whole entire world.

NR70V Features

j888 @ 3/11/2002 1:12:10 AM #
Here's a spec from what I can work out from the various pages for the NR70V. Forgive me in advance if I've got anythign wrong. Feel free to correct below my post:

Processor
--------------
66 mHz Dragonball Super VZ

Screen
--------------
3.8 inch TFT screen
Back-lit colour liquid display
320x480 resolution
65,536 colours
Top flip with screen swivels/rotates
(ie. hides the keyboard, and allows complete soft graffiti usage)

Input Methods
--------------
Soft graffiti
Soft keyboard
Built-in keyboard


Memory
-------------
16MB (DRAM)
10MB (Flash)


Sound
-------------
Monoaural speaker
WAV and MIDI conversion and playback via speakers
Frequency characteristic: 20Hz - 20,000Hz
Record medium: Magic gate memory stick * memory stick
Recording type: ATRAC3 * MP3 system
Largest sound recording time *3: - ATRAC3 system approximately 120 minutes (bit rate 132kbps)
Approximately 160 minutes (bit rate 105kbps), approximately 240 minutes (bit rate 66kbps)
- MP3 system approximately 65 minutes (bit rate 256kbps), approximately 130 minutes (bit
Rate 128kbps), approximately 170 minutes (bit rate 96kbps)
Play MP3s and work in other Applications
Can turn off screen when playing MP3s

Image Capture
--------------
300 degree rotation C-MOS camera
10 ten thousand pixel
Photographing distance and size: 0.3m - XXINF /320240, 160120 and 8888
Liquid crystal picture finder
JPEG capture
F2.8/ focal length f=2.47mm (35mm film conversion f= approximately 35mm )


Expansion slots
-------------
1 x Expansion slot
Compatible with Memory Stick, Memory Stick MG


Battery
-------------
Lithium ion polymer charge pond (built-in)
4 usual use approximately 10 days (at the time of music playback: Approximately 7 hours (at the time of display elimination))


Size
-------------
72.3 (W) 136.6 (H) 16.7 (D) mm (at the time of close style)
Approximately 200g (the stylus included) weight


Misc. Features
-------------
USB
Infrared red
Remote control LED


Wireless/Connectivity Options
-------------
Optional Bluetooth adaptor PCGA-BM1
On-board modem adapter BTA-NW1
Compact flash communication card with built-in battery PEGA-CF70
"enjoy Internet and the mail without using the coupling cable"

Backlit screen means not very visible outdoors?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:17:49 AM #
.

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:33:32 AM #
The T615C is backlit too. It uses a transflective screen, which is visible indoors and out. I assume the NR70(V) would be the same.

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:34:17 AM #
No, it's the same screen on the T series

besides, there is no way they could put a backligh @ such thinness

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:45:51 AM #
Is the 200g for the unit with the camera?
If so, does any1 know what the weight is w/o the camera?

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:06:55 AM #
At 16.7 (D) mm the unit seems to be about as thick or thin (take your pick) as the M50x series with the standard leather cover.

Definitely NOT too thick as has been mentioned around here already !



No Jog Dial?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:32:30 AM #
How in the world will you scroll when you're looking at the screen only (since the up/down buttons will be hidiing on the other side of the device).

RE: NR70V Features
Ed @ 3/11/2002 2:40:01 AM #
> Is the 200g for the unit with the camera?

Sony lists the same weight for both versions.

> No Jog Dial?

Both have a Jog Dial and a back button.

---
News Editor

RE: NR70V Features
j888 @ 3/11/2002 3:01:45 AM #
"How in the world will you scroll when you're looking at the screen only (since the up/down buttons will be hidiing on the other side of the device)."

The jogdial :)

Whilst I saw it in the pics, I didn't in the text I was looking up so I forgot to list it. Sorry!

Optional Bluetooth!?????????
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:03:56 AM #
Why in the world wouldn't I want to connect this beautiful creation to the net over my mobile or my asdl at home????
Sony obviusly has missed something...

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:03:15 AM #
Anyone know why Sony would bother putting in 10megs of Flash inside? Will it be able to support Palm OS 5 when it is released? What other reasons would the ROM be flashable other than major OS upgrades?

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:14:43 PM #
Probably because its been so hacked into that the OS barely even resembles the pure Palm OS it was derived from. Which is another reason I can wait for OS 5. Although hi-res is tempting now, I would rather wait till it is actually supported by the Palm OS so the applications that utilize higher resolution will work and continue to work in the future. Just my $0.02.

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 3:06:19 PM #
" Anyone know why Sony would bother putting in 10megs of Flash inside? Will it be able to support Palm OS 5 when it is released? What other reasons would the ROM be flashable other than major OS upgrades?"

The NRV70V is for the Japanese market, so they usually have more flash mem for their characters (kanji), (I read somewhere that they include a dictionary).

RE: NR70V Features
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/7/2002 10:15:54 PM #
Same as N750/760C.
The Japanese version N750C has 8MB flash while N760C only has 4MB.

thanks ed

SaxonMan @ 3/11/2002 1:26:16 AM #
thanks ed for the article

here's the thread:
www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4001&FORUM_ID=8&CAT_ID=2

tons of pics!!!
enjoy

regards,
SaxonMan
Moderator-Handspring
--------------------------------------
may the holy palmostles be with you

my homepage: http://www.klosterbruder.com
my favorite site:
http://www.modchip24.com/?PID5061

Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:29:23 AM #
Despite what Ed speculates (and I mean no offense by that--the Sony Japan animated graphics might be construed to indicate what Ed is saying), I can't believe the Memory Stick would protrude from the device while in use. That would be ridiculous for memory storage, because you could never open the device with the MS in. If this is true, then that alone makes it significantly unworkable. So I think that can't be. The MS appears to go down inside the keyboard section of the device, and I think there is plenty of room there.

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
Ed @ 3/11/2002 1:41:15 AM #
All I can say is the Memory Stick slot is in the hinge and that doesn't leave it very much room to go in very far. Here's one of the pictures I'm going on:
www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NR70V/Images/parts_3.jpg

---
News Editor
Memory Stick *DOES* fit all the way in
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:08:51 AM #
The memory stick *does* fit all the way in. Here's an illustration of the BlueTooth stick:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NR70V/feat_wireless.html

The Clie on the right is the one with the BlueTooth Stick installed. Nothing sticks out in the picture.



RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:12:10 AM #
The MS slot is not exactly in the hinge, it is between the hinge. And yes the Memorystick will fit all the way in.

Also the hinge never ever flips for more than 180 (maybe 160) degrees, that's why the screen can be rotated too.

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
Ed @ 3/11/2002 2:20:00 AM #
> The Clie on the right is the one with the BlueTooth Stick installed.

I'm sorry but no. Look at the writing on the upper left of the page. The one on the right has the PEGA-CF70 module attached to it. That's the CF adapter that is available only in Japan that is used to connect to Japan's wireless networks.

Before you go getting all excited, this module does not work with CF memory cards, just the wireless networking one, and Sony doesn't plan to release it outside of Japan anyway.

---
News Editor

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
martopiggus @ 3/11/2002 2:26:34 AM #
Judging from the pics, MS should fit into the keyboard side of the flip.

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:56:25 AM #
Look at a side profile pictures here:

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NR70V/parts.html

It does look like there is enough room for the memory stick to insert into the keyboard flap.

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:03:25 AM #
I don't know about you guys but that MS goes all the way in. If you look at the hinge, it attaches to the keyboard part by two outer arms. The MS fits between there, and hence into the keyboard section of the pda.

Obvious, no?

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:07:24 AM #
Actually Ed confused the hell out of me, first I don't understand why he describes the MS slot is "in" the hinge, while it's never in the hinge, and I don't understand why he thinks standard MS might not be able to fit all the way into the slot.

Why did sony not put the whole bluetooth module in the slot, becasue Sony wants to let you see the MS module. if it's in the slot how do you know it's even there...

it would be really stupid for sony to not let MS to fit totally into the slot because that would easily break the MS.

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
Ed @ 3/11/2002 3:17:24 AM #
I think you guys are correct. I was thrown by the fact that all the pictures with the Bluetooth card show it sticking out about half way. I'm going to assume that that's just for promotional purposes.

Sony confused me and I think I confused a lot of other people. Take some confusion and pass it along, that's my new motto.

---
News Editor

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
j888 @ 3/11/2002 3:24:17 AM #
Yes, the Memory Stick will fit all the way in; Sony would have to be committing design suicide if the Memory Card stuck out like that (it would be totally unusable). That image Ed is referring to illustrates where the MS slot is; it's very similar to how Palm illustrate the SD card in some of their pics:

http://www.palm.com/images/products/handhelds/thbnail_m515_sm.gif

Bluetooth MS DOES Stick Out - PROVE HERE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:23:24 AM #
Hi guys, this is nXt, the BlueTooth memory stick DOES Stick out!

Go to this URL... and look at the Bluetooth picture, see the little light on it that's lite up when it's inside the NR70??? it DOES Stick out!

http://www.clieclub.jp/clie_exbit/pages/nr086_jpg.htm

For other NR70 pictures, (REAL LIFE PICTURES) not "model" pictures go here:
http://www.clieclub.jp/clie_exbit/index.html

RE: Bluetooth MS DOES Stick Out - PROVE HERE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:30:02 AM #
And to clarify, only the Bluetooth MS stick out, normal MS/MagicGate MS doesn't stick out.

If you look at that picture of the Bluetooth, you can see that the top part is a little bit thicker than the rest that goes inside the slot, so it's made like that... I guess just like the BlueTooth SD module for the m500/505/515/m1xx whatever, those stick out too.

RE: Bluetooth MS DOES Stick Out - PROVE HERE!
mtg101 @ 3/11/2002 7:05:45 AM #
nXt dude, get yourself registered on PalmInfocenter - then you won't have to start all posts with 'hi this is nXt'. Plus you're going to have to register soon anyway... so you may as well do it now.

Damn pity the InfoStick doesn't fit entirely inside the device - but at least it's coming out now.

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:33:11 PM #
heh, hi this is nXt, I am registered here, but I can't post comments to articles for some reason, it just gives me a 404 error when i click "Post Comment"... I can only post in the forums using my account...

And.. I just lost my password...

RE: Memory Stick MUST fit all the way in
ahecht @ 3/12/2002 8:40:29 PM #
look at the clear mockup
here . The MS slot is definately full length.

I don't want a keyboard....

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:37:35 AM #
I have no desire for a keyboard yet you will have to have it if you like it or not and it makes the unit thicker. I don't get it. All the other specs are very cool except for this keyboard piece.

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:40:14 AM #
Then get the T series you ****ing troll

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:06:26 AM #
Solution:
1) Don't buy it, Pretend that you never saw this
2) buy it and break it in half so you won't see the keyboard

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:10:02 AM #
From above:

At 16.7 (D) mm the unit seems to be about as thick or thin (take your pick) as the M50x series with the standard leather cover.

Definitely NOT too thick unless you like to use your M50x without the cover...!



RE: I don't want a keyboard....
mikeliu @ 3/11/2002 2:19:21 AM #
This thread's originator was hardly a troll. This device seems to possess a number of advantages compared against the T615, and I too think it's kinda a shame I can't buy a non-keyboard version of this.

Faster CPU, MP3, soft graffiti, more Flash, recording etc.

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
Islander @ 3/11/2002 3:37:09 AM #
Come on, that will come soon enough, one thing at a time.

Screen positioned too low when clamshell closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:13:18 AM #
I'd love to see Sony's soft graffiti screen in a non-keyboard version. Not just because I don't want the keyboard, but also because this model has the hinge at the *top* of the closed device. That means that when the clamshell is closed, the screen is positioned at the bottom of the device, not the top. It's gonna be hard to read anything at the bottom of the screen, and very awkward if you have to tap there. (how many times a day do you hit the menu button in the lower left??)

Here's what I think the next version should be: same as this version, but no clamshell, no keyboard, same overall size, screen positioned toward the top of the device. That would leave space for a slightly larger battery (wouldn't it?).


RE: I don't want a keyboard....
mrscarey @ 3/11/2002 8:25:21 AM #
If we are to appeal to the masses the keyboard is the only way to go. I am a hardened Graffiti user but the keyboard is STILL quicker and more accurate. I do, however, possess artistic thin hands not shovels.

Clie needs to appeal to first time users and this certainly has the "Wow factor" to do that.

I think (as an M505 owner) that this device is the one to woo people who would not have thought of buying a PDA. Kudos to Sony, I think this is great. Just wish Palm would produce a "wow-factor" device to compete......



mrscarey

palmist and visionary

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 9:16:33 AM #
What a couple of idiots calling me a troll for pointing out the obvious and the other jerk. Get a life. Do you fall at the feet of everything Sony? Btw I already have a T-series. How about the five hour battery life? Is that a wonderous new Sony development too? What a breakthrough!

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
He||Raiser @ 3/11/2002 10:32:37 AM #
I too don't want a keyboard. I'm disappointed that Sony hasn't decided to make a T-series Palm with an MP3 player integrated into the device. In addition, I think it would look kinda funky working on this thing that's bent in half, typing on the keyboard. And as for games, the 66mHz processor makes this great for games, but the buttons make it narly impossible to play games on! I don't want to be pounding away at a game and then the screen flops over. Let's just hope that when this comes to the US, they'll offer a non-keyboard version to match the Graffiti users/users who don't want to be seen typing away at this beast of a thing in this market.

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:25:56 PM #
I have used the Palm Portable keyboard for some time and find it extremely useful for working on anything lengthy. I wonder if the keyboard on the Sony is big enough to be used in the same way--any thoughts?

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:58:16 PM #
I think the new clies are great. I can't wait to ry one out. however, WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING HAVING ALL THAT SPACE BELOW THE KEYBOARD AND NOT PUTING IN A DIRECTION/GAMEPAD???!?!?!! It would have been so cheap and easy - the icing on the cake cause no Palm device has this yet and people out there clearly want it cause there are several third party gamepad manufacturers for Palm devices. And dont flame me with yr 'Palm is supposed to be a simple productivity PDA' crap - the device is cleary aimed at mass concumer entertainment market as much as any other market and - as i said - it would have been the least expensive/obtrusive of all the new features. Still - great machines.

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
ahecht @ 3/12/2002 8:42:31 PM #
I also think the unit will be topheavy when closed. If the screen didn't flip (and there will probably hacks such as fliphack that prevent it from doing so), the unit would be more convinient (except for jog dial placement).

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
ahecht @ 3/12/2002 8:42:31 PM #
I also think the unit will be topheavy when closed. If the screen didn't flip (and there will probably hacks such as fliphack that prevent it from doing so), the unit would be more convinient (except for jog dial placement).

RE: I don't want a keyboard....
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 11:19:47 PM #
If you notice, this palm is quite on the heavy side (7oz). All this extra weight is probably added to the bottom part of the palm (where the keyboard is) in order to balance out the heavy lcd screen. That would only make sense.

This is the one

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:54:18 AM #
Wow. I can not wait to get one.

BTW, 7 ounces, it's a little bit havier thant N760C.... Anybody know is it metal casing like T-series or plastic like N/S-series?

RE: This is the one
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:04:01 AM #
Unfortunately no one could be told what the casing is. Well actually you should be able to figure out yourself :P probably not plastic, at that level of thiness you can't exactly use plastic for the casing, it'll break in 2.5 seconds.

RE: This is the one
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 2:10:39 AM #
I believe I read somewhere in those japanese pages that the case is Magnesium Alloy :) ... very strong ...

Pricing in US dollars...

qdtrinh @ 3/11/2002 2:06:13 AM #
Hey folks!

I just went to the sonystyle Japan store and noticed that the NR70 cost EXACTLY the same as the N760, e.g. 49 000. Taking that in consideration, one should expect the NR70 to cost about 499$ in the US.

RE: Pricing in US dollars...
SingSong @ 3/11/2002 2:21:09 AM #
I think the 760 is $399 USD. Subsequently, it would seem that the PEG-N70 will be priced at $399 here in the States.

Look at the weight

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:04:06 AM #
At 7 oz (vs. 4 oz for an m500), and 5.4" tall (vs. 4.5" for an m500) this will segment the market: big with a short battery life but lots of cool features, and small/thin/lightweight/long battery life, for people who value portability more than features. So this new clamshell is more like Sony's bait for Pocket PC's typical customers, rather than Palm's.

I like the basic form factor, no flip cover needed. But I think I'll wait until they come out with a lighter version using an ARM processor.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:32:28 AM #
wow ... when ARM Palm comes out, expect something that's
- NOT thin/Light
- NOT long battery life

I've never seen an ARM based thin form factor PDA yet, and none of those color PDA out there with ARM processors has "Long" Battery life.

A Newton using a 200MHz ARM CPU has a battery life of about 8-9 hours contious use. It doesnt have a color screen and 8-9 hours is counted with backlit off, so I'd expect a color screen PDA with ARM cpu will have a battery life of about 3 hours.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:34:58 AM #
Yea, I have to agree. Sony obviously gets high marks for taking the platform where it's never been before, but I doubt this would work for me (I could be wrong and look forward to trying it out sometime though). 7 oz. is and 5.4 inches in length is more than I really want to carry in a PDA.

I would also agree that they're looking to grab more PPC market share with this device. Good to see the platform begin to branch out though. With OS5 around the corner, I think this is only the beginning.

RE: Look at the weight
Ed @ 3/11/2002 3:40:37 AM #
> I've never seen an ARM based thin form factor PDA yet, and none of those color
> PDA out there with ARM processors has "Long" Battery life.

Just because there haven't been any doesn't mean there won't be any. The primary reason the developers of the Palm OS passed on ARM chips all those years ago was the performance-to-power ratio wasn't very good. But a lot of progress has been made over the years. The processors coming out now based on ARM's designs have a much better ratio. Intel's just announced ARM-based XScale processors use less than half the power of their current StrongARM SA-1110 one. They can do things like scale the performance as high or low as necessary in a single clock cycle. That's why Palm/PalmSource have decided that now is the time to move to the new processors. Using them before now would have been a mistake but they are finally ready to be the heart of handhelds that are both powerful and run for a long time without being weighed down with large batteries.

---
News Editor

RE: Look at the weight
mikeliu @ 3/11/2002 3:46:04 AM #
You guys are way off. This device is Sony's answer to the Sharp Zaurus, which dominates PDA sales in Japan. I think the Zaurus is Linux based, though I could be wrong on that. It's definitely not PPC or Palm OS.

The Zaurus is big (similar in size to these Sony's), and has a built-in keyboard that can be accessed by sliding down part of the front of the PDA, to reveal the keyboard hidden underneath. They had Hi-Res before Sony, and Hi-Res is an absolute no-questions asked must in the Japanese (and other Chinese font) markets. As a result of this, and other issues (such as the keyboard maybe) the Zaurus does some pretty kick ass sales in Japan as I understand it.

Sony has just upped the ante by taking the same functionalities of the Zaurus and moving them to the next step. I do hope that these will be marketed outside of Japan at some point soon, even though the Zauruses never were.....

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:52:58 AM #
Zaurus (linux) was out in Japan for quite a long time already (about 1-2 years), if Sony really wants to compete with Zaurus (Linux) they'll have to release this as their first PDA in order to compete head to head with them.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:18:00 AM #
In all due respect, how can we really be way off? It's 7 oz. right? That just doesn't work for ME. I don't pretend to know that much about the Japanese market (nor do I really care). As it's a Palm OS device, I hope it beats the Zaurus, PPC, whatever.

I just want a Palm OS based, high-res, color, on-board (and high-speed) wireless device, that's still fits in my pocket (though I'm willing to wait until battery power justifies it). Basically a high-res, 3G i705.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:49:02 AM #
Zaurus in Japan uses a proprietary OS. It's also very successful. Zaurus outside Japan uses Linux *instead*.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:52:30 AM #
Traditionally Zaurus uses proprietary OS and only releases in Japan. But there's more than one line of Zaurus organizer.

The traditional line of Zaurus is a bit bigger, more like a tablet device (nearly as big as newton MP 2100)

The Zaurus you see running linux is a newer Zaurus, I am not sure if they have dropped the old OS for linux or they are going to keep going with both but the Zaurus you guys see on the market now (kinda) is the same as the Zaurus Linux version they sell in Japan. Of course with all the japanese words translates back to english.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:40:16 AM #
Zaurus in Japan is using a proprietary OS and the latest ones with camera built-in still using the same OS. Also, Zaurus was extremely popular before the N700C was released. But since N700C was released in Japan on 4/7/2001, it has been the number 1 seller since then according to Nikkei Mobile.

Zaurus is expected to release MI-E25DC with built-in camera. Built-in camera is very popular in Japan started with J-Phone's 'shameiru' - email attached with picture taken with the built-in camera in cell phone.

For those who worry that there are too many moving parts, worry not, the clamshell phones are very popular here and the quality is very good. Almost all the new feature-packed cell phones are foldable/clamsheel type. The Japanese manufacturers are very good with it. Most of us have clamshell cell phones and I have not heard anyone complains (including myself - used it for more than 1.5 years). For example ALL the FOMA (3G) phones are clamshell type.


- Eugene


RE: Look at the weight
j888 @ 3/11/2002 8:26:45 AM #
Mike is right.

These new models have nothing to do with competition with other Palm OS devices. The only thing Sony cares about ultimately is the Japanese market (same philosophy as its audio, laptop, video, hi-fi, game console etc. divisions). And in Japan, there is only one PDA to beat: the Zaurus.

The NR series is a direct shot at the big Z in Japan, not the big P in the USA. Of course, a side-effect of this is that we (elsewhere in the world) get to benefit from Sony's commitment to innovating over its home competition.

Here's some pics of the Zaurus models:
http://ezaurus.com/product/index.html

Spot the similarities between the NR and the Zaurus?

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:27:42 PM #
>when ARM Palm comes out, expect something that's
>- NOT thin/Light
>- NOT long battery life

The Motorola ARM-based Dragonball is the same physical size at the VZ. I think many of the TI ARM-based chips are even lower power. Almost all of the ARM chips have a much higher MIPS/milliWatt rating, so at the same performance level, they will consume less power. The Newton was a battery hog because they needed to run the CPU full tilt even to do hw recognition badly. OTOH, most Palm apps leave the CPU idling. A higher MIPS CPU can spend even more time idling. Most of the battery power will then be consumed by the backlight... just like now.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:42:41 PM #
The Zaurus was discontinued in Japan last year. It has been revived in the US using Linux instead of the ZaurusOS that was used in Japan.

RE: Look at the weight
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 4:34:03 PM #
It's about the same weight as a Visor Prism and I bet the battery lasts longer than the Prism. I own a Prism and the weight/battery life doesn't bother me at all.. as far as the battery is concerned, I just drop it in the cradle when I'm at work and the battery stays fully charged.

What about gaming?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 3:39:49 AM #
Since the standard buttons are near the top of the bottom half, below the hinge, it looks to
me like it would be kinda awkward to play any button based games on it unless it's resting on a table.
If you grab onto the bottom half of the unit with both hands to push the buttons,
it seems like the screen would be subject to movement...
i.e. flipping down or away or left/right while you're playing a frantic game of Tetris.

RE: What about gaming?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:22:36 AM #
Dude,

If you are that concern about "gaming" then buy a freaking game-boy. Leave the grown-up toys to the grown-up.

RE: What about gaming?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 9:52:55 AM #
You would consider spending $400+ to play Tetris? Dude.

RE: What about gaming?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:31:29 AM #
Playing games is a perfectly legitimate use for a handheld. It's not cost effective if that's all you want to do but a GameBoy isn't going to let you read MS Word documents or remind you that you dentist appointment is in an hour. A handheld is a multi-function device. It can do lots of stuff. If you don't want to play games, fine, but you have to accept that the rest of the world isn't just like you.

flip correction!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:03:39 AM #
The pda doesn't open all the way round!!

...you just open the screen flap till there's enough space for you to turn/twist the screen horizontally 180 degrees and then re-close the unit in the same position, but with the screen facing to the outside!

There's no way the two pieces could fit together if you open it like they are saying, all the way to the back...look at the side picture...look at the shape of the hinge!!! The flaps would'nt match because of the hinge design!

RE: flip correction!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:19:14 AM #
This is nXt, i was about to write the SAME THING!

looking at the side picture, it's impossible to flip the screen all the way back!! ... and looking at it more closely, you flip the screen open like a cell phone, then you swivel (spin/turn) the screen 180 degrees and then you close the flip.....



FLIP/SWIVEL Pictures HERE!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:25:16 AM #
Yep here it is, on Sony's Site, showing the Screen SWIVELED, the screen does not flip all the way back, it SWIVELS..

http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/peg/Nr/index.html

---nXt

RE: flip correction!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:37:02 AM #
Who is arguing with you? What you said is what I got from the description in the article.

RE: flip correction!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:55:13 AM #
Too much twisting & turning, dont you think??

I dont know about you guys, but everything sony has made in the past till now that has had a hinge somewhere, has allways ended up getting screwed up!!

..."screwed up"....get it??? HAA!

RE: flip correction!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 5:05:19 AM #
"I dont know about you guys, but everything sony has made in the past till now that has had a hinge somewhere, has allways ended up getting screwed up!!"

ok .. but what's the "everything" that sony released with hinge got screwed up ??

All their laptop got hinge did those got screwed up ?
They got phones with hinge did those got screwed up ?
Well they even got TV with hing did those got screwed up too ?

RE: flip correction!!
Wolvy @ 3/11/2002 5:15:09 AM #
So based on the photo, this would mean that the main keys are behind the screen portion when used in the swivel position? Do you think this would mean that the screen automatically is viewed with Jog dial now on left hand side? This screen can be viewed in landscape mode too?

RE: flip correction!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:04:43 AM #
""Who is arguing with you? What you said is what I got from the description in the article.""

I'm not arguing with anyone, I was just repeating what you said because I was about to say the same thing when someone already posted it.

It IS Virtual Graffiti, look at this picture.

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:23:16 AM #
It is virtual graffiti....

Look at the pictures on these two urls, it shows the NR70 showing a 320x480 picture on the screen.

http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/peg/index.html
and
http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/peg/Store/Clie/index.html

--nXt

RE: It IS Virtual Graffiti, look at this picture.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:28:10 AM #
Here's a picture of memo pad with the virtual keyboard on screen.

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NR70V/Images/feat_wide_2.gif



RE: It IS Virtual Graffiti, look at this picture.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 4:39:14 AM #
nXt, we already knew it has virtual Graffiti.

RE: It IS Virtual Graffiti, look at this picture.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:18:02 PM #
Yea, this is no new info here...

isn't sony sly?

iitnaobor @ 3/11/2002 4:47:39 AM #
well, about 1 1/2 year ago, when palm m505 was released, Sony suddenly attacks palm by releasing their NEW model N710c with better features.

now palm released two new palm models, and AGAIN sony attacks palm by releasing 2 new high tech models of their own. Isn't sony sly or what?

i don't blame sony nor palm, but palm, please catch up!!!! Sony is burning you!

--=iitnaobor=--

RE: isn't sony sly?
Islander @ 3/12/2002 3:52:56 PM #
Yeah and the 505 has outsold the 710/760 what?
5 to 1 at least. Big whoop.

BTW I own the 710.

But its all Palm OS so who cares.

The Future is Here

Ninja @ 3/11/2002 4:50:26 AM #
Another awesome feature.
Using Sony's Giga Pocket Recorder software that is on their high end desktops you are able to record TV and play it back on the new model. On the website it lists gMovie 1.4. It says using a 128 MB memory stick you can playback up to 160 minutes. Before the flame wars start about who would want to watch a movie on a handheld at least admit that the ability to do so alone is amazing. I have no idea what kind of quality it will be but it clearly states up to 160 minutes with sound. All of that crammed into 128 MB is simply amazing to me.

http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/CorporateCruise/Press/200203/02-0311B/


RE: The Future is Here
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:53:18 AM #
Bet the battery wouldn't last 160mins with 320x480, sound, side-light etc. LOL.

RE: The Future is Here
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:02:16 AM #
That TV thing is something earlier CLIEs had. It didn't make into versions for other countries and I'll bet it won't with this one too.

RE: The Future is Here
Ninja @ 3/12/2002 5:22:10 PM #
"That TV thing is something earlier CLIEs had. It didn't make into versions for other countries and I'll bet it won't with this one too."

You are mistaken about that, this has been available for sometime. I have a Sony Desktop that has this feature.

http://www.sonystyle.com/vaio/mx/tour_03.shtml

RE: The Future is Here
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 9:03:21 PM #
I would love it if you could watch a video clip in landscape mode and thus watch it in widescreen (so to speak) to take advantage of the 320 x 480 screen. Don't you think? Just turn the clie sideways and you have instant widescreen. Are you listening Sony? Make the latest Gmovie lip the screen 90 degrees.

Cool Effect!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 5:28:22 AM #
When you swivel the top half of this PDA, the screen orientation flips over! Cool!

Holding it with the keyboard on the bottom, the (virtual) graffiti area is at the part of the screen with the square corners.

Then, when you swivel it around, and fold the screen down so the keyboard is covered, the graffiti area is now at the part of the screen with the rounded corners.

I'm swiveling the screen back and forth to see how fast the screen can flip over... it's quite fast!


RE: Cool Effect!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 5:38:49 AM #
hmm so that's why they had to make it a virtual graffiti area. where did you get your hands on one?

RE: Cool Effect!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 1:59:55 PM #
from an epson printer.=)

Sony Humiliates Palm

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 5:47:59 AM #
Come on, compare what Sony adds to each new device, compared to Palm (Let's add 8MB & upgrade the brightness of our flagship device, and we have a new one !)


RE: Sony Humiliates Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:05:21 PM #
But people are still buying Palms....only ubergeeks are buying Sony units....Palm's biggest competitor is the PocketPC not Sony!

RE: Sony Humiliates Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:26:56 PM #
"only ubergeeks are buying Sony units"

As you said, I guess people in Japan and most people in Asia are ubergeeks then. And you must be one of those very intelligent Enron executives.

Well it has to happen

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:42:48 AM #
After receiving my m515 last week and then reading the
Sony news - well what can I say.

If I were in the USA then no doubt in my mind that a class action against Palm is on the basis that the 515 only fixes what the 505 should have been with the screen. Any picture of adverts from the 505 era will show this.

Result would probably be a bad situation for Palm financially with Sony picking up the pieces and doing the job properly.

Mr Gates of course will love all this.



Is that a price drop?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:53:27 AM #
Is that a price drop for the T600 series because of this new release???

http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/peg/Store/Clie/index.html

Seems to be around US$315 now

RE: Is that a price drop?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 7:06:52 AM #
No, those prices have always been like that N750C -49,800 yen, T600C - 39,800 yen and T400 - 29,000 yen.

A new record

sandbuck @ 3/11/2002 7:28:12 AM #
It's not even 7:30 here on the East Coast, and we have already posted 130+ comments. This article may set a new record. Anyone know what that record is so far?

RE: A new record
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:00:46 AM #
hehe
You're not alone on this planet.

We're a bit earlier over here in Europe.
Dunno about the record, though.

Cheers,
Jan

RE: A new record
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 5:47:13 PM #
My sentiment exactly. When are you Americans going to realise there are other 4.8 billion people on this planet (and they are in countries other then US) ?

RE: A new record
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 6:06:06 PM #
>My sentiment exactly. When are you Americans going to realise there are other 4.8 billion people on this planet (and they are in countries other then US) ?

When are you going to realize that it is only natural for people to reference their own time zone?

Wireless next, PLEASE

fperkins @ 3/11/2002 7:31:01 AM #
Just add wireless and I would be soooo happy. Hrm.. you can add a phone too though ;-)

I was going to knock Palm but I think Sony already did. You can't really expect Palm to keep up with Sony. I bet the PDA's that Sony makes are built in their engineer's spare time ;-)

RE: Wireless next, PLEASE
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 12:01:28 AM #
I bet Palm knew they couldn't keep up with Sony either. That's why they licensed to Sony because Sony can keep up with Compaq and the other ppc guys

The next model

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 7:35:04 AM #
The SONY JE-910A will have an integrated gyroscopic people-mover.

RE: The next model
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:21:17 AM #
Actually I originally heard that they were going to add food replicator but as they only had several months to design it the settled with a camera to take picts of food for later visual consumption. :)

RE: new stuff?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:12:50 AM #
well... i think you kinda missed out the android aibo coming up named data, the warp powerd car named enterprise, the new lcars interface, voice powered computer, the mobile holo-emitter and the holographic first aid kit....ad of course..that sony had been renamed to starfleet......

RE: The next model
EGarrido @ 3/12/2002 8:45:49 PM #
"Make it so."

Eric Garrido

Can anyone spell power drain?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 8:19:04 AM #

I am also drooling, but according to Sony it's a 5 hour battery life.

What next?

Wireless and 2 hour of battery?


Underclocking?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 7:03:00 PM #
I noticed that. I wonder if I could use Afterburner or something to UNDERCLOCK the processor to 33mhz to double the battery length, or at least SOMEWHAT increase it? The 760 ran at 33mhz with 320x320.

Just to point out

Kaitou @ 3/11/2002 8:36:58 AM #
The camera takes 1 megapixel JPEG's, and also saves thumbnails in PGPocket format at the stated resolutions

It also has the speaker from the T series

RE: Just to point out
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 1:53:17 PM #
320x240 is 76800 pixels, which is far short of 1 megapixel.

MORE POWER PLEASE!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 9:05:52 AM #
I still think that these PDAs still do not have enuff power! 66Mhz, well I can play an mpeg4 movie on it, watch live stream video, sure you can listen to mp3s but I can get a Sony stick for that!
Nah shall wait for the XScale processors which should be here in a couple of months.. so for x-mas... who knows!

A new device category is born

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 9:20:32 AM #
Convergence in your pocket!
Sony has been doing market research and discovered a new sweet spot in digital convergence - not around the cellphone, but around entertainment while you are away from your "home" entertainment center (PC/Stereo/TV).

Digital camera (of sorts), PDA (Palm O/S), MP3 player and access to low-bandwidth comms (Bluetooth). Why? People already have their cellphones and their cellphone accounts - it is hard to change those every three months so they don't mess with that. So what else to do on that long subway ride to/from work? Music, Videos, short emails to other people in the flow of their day and organizing one's life. Very Japanese.

The American market is quite different - people usually have one hand on the wheel of the car during this commute - so the convergence will be different because the customer's need is different.

Still though - slightly bigger than the smallest PDA, slightly smaller than the sub-notebook class machines. An interesting category. Kudos to Sony for discovering it. Let's see what the American comapnies can come up with...

Almost there

gcastell @ 3/11/2002 9:35:06 AM #
I have an m505 and my wife has a m125 we are happy with our devices and they have help us to manage a little bit better our lives, so we are very excited about this new PDA from sony and palm, but we think that although Sony is very close, we will wait until someone releases a PDA with all the coolness of the Clie plus a phone with 3G support, carrying a cell phone and a cable to connect my m505 or my wife m125 is getting boring...

Sony Ericsson R800 is that!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:03:54 AM #
An interesting thought, would Sony really want to make the PDAs with PalmOS phones as they already have phones based on SymbianOS with Ericsson? And only last week they showed there new R800, which has PDA functions and bluetooth, colour screen and long battery life and is smaller than the new once?
It looks like they are going two diffrent ways, these will never really be phones, just multimedia PDAS, I guess they wouldn't want to go the same way as Handspring is going with making PDA/Phones as they are already making phone/PDAs..

RE: Almost there
rigter @ 3/11/2002 10:13:21 AM #
Get a bluetooth card.
No more cables and your phone doesn't even have to be close by.

Cheers,Jan

/*
One thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse.
*/

RE: Almost there
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 6:51:34 PM #
If you consider 6 feet away a VERY LONG distance, than yes, Bluetooth is for you. Bluetooth with a phone and PDA is a good combo. You can just leave the phone in your pocket... (I wouldn't leave it on a table, and walk around with the PDA surfing the net...)

Think you guys miss this one regarding POWER

martopiggus @ 3/11/2002 10:10:20 AM #
http://www.clieclub.jp/clie_exbit/pages/nr097_jpg.htm
http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PEG/Acc/PEGA-BC10/index.html

PEGA-BC10: read: Battery Adaptor, using AA batteries (no mention how many batteries can be inserted tho)

well, maybe that's the answer...

Sony is also releasing a Pocket PC!!!! (VAIO U Series)

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:10:57 AM #
Did anybody read the news about the preview of the new line of PPC handhelds!!! arrgggghhhh!!!!

Sony is NOT releasing a Pocket PC!!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:16:29 AM #
Where did you read that? It's a mistake. Here's what Rueters had to say about it:

    Sony also offered a sneak preview into a new line of "U'' series VAIO computer models that are set to rival handheld computers in terms of size.

    They will run Microsoft Corp's Windows operating system and are small enough to fit into a large pocket, with thumb controls so they can be operated while being held.

The U series runs regular old Windows, not PPC.

RE: Sony is also releasing a Pocket PC!!!! (VAIO U Series)
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:29:15 AM #
But as you say they will use Microsoft Windows but not which, could be Windows CE ( the actual OS for the Pocket PC concept) or it might be Tablet PC ( which also uses some windows )
Maybe we should just wait and see

RE: Sony is also releasing a Pocket PC!!!! (VAIO U Series)
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 10:35:00 AM #
No its not PPC or any other Windows...

Its 9900% WINDOWS XP home version.
The name of the model alone is VAIO that is their designation for their desktop and notebook line.

That coupled with their complaints recently about Microsofts licensing practices, and their schedule to appear in the anti trust trial, they sure dont want to add a new Micro$oft OS into their line.

Dream on.

RE: Sony is also releasing a Pocket PC!!!! (VAIO U Series)
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:45:23 AM #
actually, the U series will run XP; here's a link (you can probably guess the features based on the few English words):

http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Info/products_vaio_u.html

RE: Sony is also releasing a Pocket PC!!!! (VAIO U Series)
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/26/2002 8:44:36 PM #
Was not able to translate that link. Any clue when this thing is coming out?

A nearly identical PalmOS 5/ARM version???

Galley_SimRacer @ 3/11/2002 10:24:38 AM #
I predict that Sony will release a model nearly identical to this one, only running PalmOS 5 with an ARM processor and the neccessary amount of memory, by the end of 2002! What we are seeing is the future of the Clie line in 2003. :-)

--
"Life is what you experience between racing games"
Galley

pic

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 5:50:59 PM #
RE: pic
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 4:22:13 PM #
What are the devices depicted in "nr102.jpg", "nr103.jpg", "nr104.jpg", and "nr105.jpg"? They look like small PDAs, but they don't appear to be running PalmOS. Does anyone know?

What about cases???

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:24:55 PM #
I have enjoyed all the comments on this topic so far. Particularly clarification about the exact details on how the screen works, swivels, and the use of MS.

However, I realized after looking at this handheld... how the hell do you make a carrying case for this?!?!? The handheld doesn't appear any more ruggedized than previous models and I wouldn't even think of wandering around with my Clie' all naked and such ;-)

I guess carrying case manufacturers will have to be as inventive as SONY in figuring out a way to protect these things!!!

RE: What about cases???
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:29:42 PM #
I think you put it in your pocket period.
That's what I'll do. Anyways it already got a bulit in cover/keyboard, so protecting the screen should not be an issue.

Possible Case suggestion
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 7:17:12 PM #
Taking a look at the pictures they may be able to make a case as a two part slip cover, one that slips over the top have of the clie, and one that slides up the bottom of the clie, that way it wouldn't inhibit the movement of the screen and it could protect the screen and the case from scratches.

RE: What about cases???
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 8:26:03 PM #
The purpose of a case is not only to protect the screen.


I didn't realized this until I dropped my N760C by accident to the floor last week. Of course, I have a case.. ^_^

And I think it saves me more than $200 in repairing any possible damage if my Clie was not inside the case.

I believe you'll like to give some protection to this MSRP $499 device. (the price when it comes to USA)



This is nice, But NOT a palm killer

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 6:21:50 PM #
Before you sony maniacs get all over me for what I'm about to say, just read it first.

These new units look very nice, offer a multitude of features and options and power and so on. BUT, if my memory serves me correctly, a palm pilot was made to organize your life. To keep addresses, phone#, appointments, etc all in a nice fitting package that's long on battery life and easy on your pocket.

It's clear that these new clies are aimed at the japanese market and at pocket PC's. AT 7oz it's just too heavy compared to most palms, even sony's own T615. Also the battery life sounds terrible.

It's good to see a palm OS company going after PPC sales directly and I'm glad to see that we still have LIGHT and SIMPLE palm products around (m515).

It seems we always want MORE of everything and that's what PPC's offer and that's what these new Sonys offer, But I'm still a big fan of lightweight, rugged products that can go for extended periods on a single battery charge. Palm should NOT abandon products like the M515 or the M130 but THEY SHOULD come out with something that competes with PPC on a multimedia level.



RE: This is nice, But NOT a palm killer
Agonistes @ 3/12/2002 11:09:44 AM #
"BUT, if my memory serves me correctly, a palm pilot was made to organize your life. To keep addresses, phone#, appointments, etc all in a nice fitting package that's long on battery life and easy on your pocket."

I'm not trying to create a flame war, but when the first PCs came out, they were made mostly for word processing, simple games and spreadsheet applications. As technology improved, the PC industry burgeoned and we now have a multitude of PCs that are designed for various applications such as graphic design and gaming. Sure the first Palm devices started off as a simple organizer, but as technology evolves, so too much the features.

When PCs first entered the market, only geeks like us saw the immediate applications. It took a long time before average households began to buy them. Sure the internet was a major factor in the increased sales, but the point is, the new features and functionality are what draw in the average user.

RE: This is nice, But NOT a palm killer
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 5:59:07 PM #
It may not be a palm killer but as long as total marketshare for PalmOS grows, everyone wins!

Iron Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 11:58:09 PM #
Well remember if you want the new NR Clie, you'll have to put with the extra weight, the keyboard if you don't need one, and reduced battery life

Face-Off

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 7:36:13 PM #
Let's face facts. Sony wins the face off when it comes to consumer electronics. Don't forget Sony has "simple organizers" too in the form of their S360. But, if you want more than just that, you can step up within the Clie range.

The way things are going, if you want just a simple organizer, most handphones nowadays have that built-in. If you are going to carry a PDA, you will want more features and this is where Sony is positioning its Clie range. Unfortunately, Palm still thinks otherwise and coming out with overpriced "simple organizers" that trails behind Sony's innovation.

Heck, even Handspring got that! It seems most licensees of Palm are doing better with their hardware than the licensor. A case of how sad Palm has become. The last great hardware they did IMHO was the Palm V. That got the PDA market rolling but since then, nada.

RE: Face-Off
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 6:35:37 PM #
The m100 series and the i705 were rather innovative. No huge leap, but they were smartly designed hardware.

RE: Face-Off
martopiggus @ 3/12/2002 8:59:08 PM #
m100 series - too primitive
i705 - sorry, no use anywhere except North America

RE: Face-Off
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:45:46 AM #
m100series is innovative? What? The color faceplates? The small plastic screen? The m130 is perhaps Palm's best product at the moment and that's only because at $279 it's the cheapest color Palm - but it isn't innovative.

i705 has a limited market reach. It may be the best looking Palm but it sure isn't innovative.

Other than that, Palm has released one dud after another. Either the screen sucks or the USB fries. Worst still, if I were Palm's customer 10 months ago and bought the m505 when they should have released it as the m515 is today.

Palm's MOST innovative thing was to ask Claudia Schiffer to model their product and color it "Patriotic Red/Blue" when a nation was mourning. Yeah, they are VERY innovative!

Screen Rez and Back Light?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 1:50:54 AM #
Does anyone know enough Japanese than can say for sure if this new Sony is readable in the sunlight?

Thanks!

RE: Screen Rez and Back Light?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 3:11:47 AM #
I would assume that the screen is transflective like the T615C, so it should be visible outdoors.

RE: Screen Rez and Back Light?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:19:39 AM #
Backlit screen means not very visible outdoors?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:17:49 AM
.

RE: NR70V Features
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:33:32 AM

The T615C is backlit too. It uses a transflective screen, which is visible indoors and out. I assume the NR70(V) would be the same.

RE: NR70V Features
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 3/11/2002 1:34:17 AM

No, it's the same screen on the T series
besides, there is no way they could put a backligh @ such thinness

MAKES ME WONDER!?!?!
How can anyone find out for sure? My HS Prism is useless outdoors. Visible outside would be a must otherwise, no dice!

Thankx!

Dual Memory Stick or Ir Port?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 3:19:13 PM #
where is the ir port?

Is that it in front of the bluetooth or is that another memory stick slot?

http://www.clieclub.jp/clie_exbit/pages/nr086_jpg.htm

RE: Dual Memory Stick or Ir Port?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 6:35:21 PM #
Uhh look at the picture you posted, that's the IR port right there, the memory stick port is also black so when no memory stick is in, it's one big black rectangle.

Cool... whats next?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 4:05:54 PM #
Neat stuff! I think I'll wait for the new processor & OS version though. I can only buy one of these things a year.

Up next... How about a Palm OS desktop computer!

REduces my Palm Vx to the status of my Atari 800

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 4:39:59 PM #
what a leap

Wait for the ARM / OS5 version, don't waist your money now

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 6:29:50 PM #
Really cool devices. The way I think most PDAs will be in a year (wouldn't be surprised if palm is working on something similar for the fall).

The thing is that these are going to be completely out of date in 5 months when OS 5 ships. The enhanced screen resolution and the hi def screen are non-standard and few 3rd party programs will run on them or make use of them. The standard will be what is shipped with OS 5.

It will be much smarter to wait for the ARM version of these, then the OS will be upgradable for years, and you will have a shot of getting 3rd party programs that make use of the screen.

RE: Wait for the ARM / OS5 version, don't waist your money now
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 7:02:05 PM #
"Really cool devices. The way I think most PDAs will be in a year (wouldn't be surprised if palm is working on something similar for the fall). "

I don't think palm should or could make anything similiar, as many people always say this kind of device is only for geeks specially geeks in asia :P so if palm follows sony's way, they'll both battle for the same crowd of Geeks. and left the normal consumers market to the PPCs.
In order for palm to save guard the normal non geek consumer market they need to keep making 160X160 res PDA with basic PIM functionality, that's what normal consumers want....

RE: Wait for the ARM / OS5 version, don't waist your money now
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 1:21:44 AM #
"In order for palm to save guard the normal non geek consumer market they need to keep making 160X160 res PDA with basic PIM functionality, that's what normal consumers want...."
Where Have you been for the past 2 years?!?!? Who do you think will use PDAs? college students, high school students(maybe),and people who just started to work. Do you think they/we will buy 160x160 piece of crap?!?! NO WAY!
I am in post grad right now. 80% of students who have a PDA owns a Sony and 10% owns a Palm and 10% owns a Ipaq.
So....

RE: Wait for the ARM / OS5 version, don't waist your money now
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 1:50:42 AM #
"In order for palm to save guard the normal non geek consumer market they need to keep making 160X160 res PDA with basic PIM functionality, that's what normal consumers want...."

LoL .. Sorry I just joking.
Actually I was trying to justify why people should buy M515 over T615. Turns out after typing it, it sounds more like a joke.

You could be waiting for ever
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 3:48:20 AM #
I guess it really depends what your needs are and how fat your wallet is! I know I won't be buying one as I do not need or want one that badly, I would like to play some games, surf the web through my mobile and watch some video clips on the train/bus to work, and this is not enuff for that so I will have to wait.

By the way Ed, have we broken your post record yet??

RE: Wait for the ARM / OS5 version, don't waist your money now
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 3:56:33 AM #
I think it broke the record already, ed had to take down the comment area yesterday in order to save PIC. :P

Hmmm.. a palm phone without voice

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 6:41:55 PM #
Big let down, it looks like a phone but it is just a Palm. Add voice and then you would have something really neat.

Piloting Palm By Sony

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 7:54:23 PM #
It was interesting to read some comments here about the Palm and Sony face-off. Firstly, the new Clies are souped up PDAs. 7oz for a mini-digital camera, MP3 player and a PDA is not too bad. Think how much more it weighs if you carry all three separately - how much more you have to pay!

It is not intended to replace the Sony T-series or m-Series from Palm. Sony has broadened their range of products. Going high-end, their average retail per unit (ARPU) will also increase whereas Palm, by introducing the m130 will see their ARPU decrease - unless they sell a gazillion of them it is not good news for Palm now. Of course, lower ARPU may mean good news to us consumers.

More importantly, it took Sony to push the benchmark and created the categories that Palm as the original licensor should be the doing.

Which comes to an interesting observation. The rate that Sony CAN afford to innovate and the speed. How come Palm with its m515 announced just a few weeks back did not use the 66mhz SuperVZ chip for it?

There's a book out about Palm titled "Piloting Palm" and it is very telling why Palm is what it is today. The fanciest thing they could do was color their Palms. The i705? The jury is still out. Without Sony, the PalmOS would be stuck at the Palm V era.


RE: Piloting Palm By Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 11:49:08 PM #
Given, Sony DOES innovate beyond any of the other devices, but saying Palm would be nothing without them is a complete and bogus lie. They STILL own the majority of the handheld market. The Vx slim-form factor is STILL the business leader. While the WOW factor does impress me and countless other, businessmen buy PalmOS Devices for simplicity, realiability and professional looks. A Cli is far too excessive for a man just using WordSmith and AvantGo. While the resolution WILL help him, for $180 he can get just what he wants and not have to worry about playing Mp3s, taking pictures or having a remote control.
Palm WILL survive without Sony. They appeal to two different users. Palm to professionals, Sony to techgeeks.
Note, if you ask ANY of my friends, I'd kill for a Cli, I'm just stating that Palm isn't going to die anytime soon.

RE: Piloting Palm By Sony
ihxo @ 3/12/2002 11:57:34 PM #
"Palm would be nothing without them is a complete and bogus lie. They STILL own the majority of the handheld market."

First no one is saying palm will not survive without Sony. Did you notice that Sony has been selling PDA for nearly 2 years and palm has been selling PDA for like more than 7 years? Sony entered a market with a clear market dominant leader, If you get on the street and ask ppl do they know sony is selling Palm PDA, many of them probably will tell you NO. The any Palm model outselling Sony's any model argument is not making any sense. It's basically saying the population of roaches is much higher than human so they must be better than human. For christ sake roaches has been walking the surface of earth for how many times longer than human being ??

"Palm WILL survive without Sony. They appeal to two different users. Palm to professionals, Sony to techgeeks."

I don't know about you, but I think people in Asia bought alot of N-series with mp3 player, and I am pretty sure the NR-series will be a big success there too, are they all techgeeks ? Hell no they just want to get things done like everybody. The things is they can get more things done with Sony's model, and get a better price/function ratio. If you are techgeek you should be buying the iPaq and flash the ROM and put a linux on it, now that's what I called a techgeek.

RE: Piloting Palm By Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:21:36 AM #
"They STILL own the majority of the handheld market."

Palm's market share have declined - even within the PalmOS market losing to people like Sony and Handpsring.

"The Vx slim-form factor is STILL the business leader."

Vx was the main inventory glut and one of many reasons that shaved Palm's sterling IPO performance to what it is today. Palm wrote-off 100's of millions of moolah.

"Palm to professionals, Sony to techgeeks"

I would like to see some statistics on this or are you just shooting your mouth off?

"Cli is far too excessive for a man just using WordSmith and AvantGo"

There's the Clie S360 - with 16MB RAM! Palm? m125 8MB for same amount of money. Rechargeable battery in Sony vs AAA in Palm. If you are one of the "professionals" obviously you would have done your math and realized that WordSmith and AvantGo eat mucho mucho RAM. Maybe you need a techgeek to give you advice after all so don't go slagging cos you sure ain't no smartypants.

RE: Piloting Palm By Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/22/2002 9:30:50 AM #
**** this. Palm, Sony, Handspring, Handera and Acer are all here to give us all a damn choice. Do you all go driving the same ****ing car. Granted if Ferrari's all costs the same as a Toyota, which would you buy? A Ferrari! But it does not! Same goes with PalmOS PDAs. The m505 has recently dropped to 199 in the UK. The T-625 and N770 costs 350. The m130 costs 230 and the m515 costs 320. There you go, there is a colour PDA for every budget. If you don't want colour there is a m100 for 45, a m105 for 98, a m125 for 150, a m500 for 190, a Clie S300 for 130, a Visor Edge for 150! You are all so ****ing childish. I am happy with every PDAs as long as it is a PalmOS PDA.

One slot for sure?

digilaw @ 3/12/2002 8:54:05 PM #
Does it say anywhere, for sure, that there is only one MS slot? The earlier rumors mentioned something about a Clie unit with 2 MS slots. Is this that unit? With a bluetooth stick coming two slots would be perfect. Thanks.

RE: One slot for sure?
Ed @ 3/12/2002 11:55:07 PM #
Take a look at this picture. It clearly shows just one slot.

---
News Editor
RE: One slot for sure?
digilaw @ 3/13/2002 2:06:00 AM #
That clears it up for sure. Too bad :(. Thanks Ed.

RE: New Sony CLIE OS ???

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 10:34:10 PM #
Can someone please tell me that is it possible to swap Jananese OS(R)4.1 to English OS 4.X in new Sony CLIE ?

Pls reference to URL http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NR70V/spec.html

quicktime

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 3:16:25 PM #
i was checking out the new clie ; i saw there was a quicktime 5 app , anyone know if its like the quicktime5 app on mac or pc ????

WOW

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:34:24 PM #
FINALLY!!!! VIRTUAL GRAFFITI!!!!!!!

I told myself I wasn't buying a new Palm device until they got rid of that stupid Graffiti area. I believe Sony has finally made a 16bit FULL screen! YEA!

RE: WOW
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/22/2002 9:28:34 AM #
The grafitti area will still be there on PalmOS programs. It's up to programmers to get rid of it when using their programs.

IPAQ does a Clie, lol!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/17/2002 2:53:28 PM #
In order to appreciate what sony has done with such a small package you should see what happens to the ipaq when it adds a camera.

http://www.edgereview.com/ataglance.cfm?Category=imaging&ID=304

So cool!

PIC mobile user @ 3/17/2002 5:19:19 PM #
I love this idea! Sony rocks! (Except for after-sales support.)

size?

PIC mobile user @ 3/18/2002 10:19:43 PM #
Sony has done it again-but how is this going to feel to carry around?
i love my t415 for the size...
palm IS NOT keeping up!
RE: size?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/18/2002 11:32:27 PM #
I guess it'll be more like one hand typing much like punching on a phone. Gotta see the real thing before doing any judgement but it looks great :)

RE: size?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/20/2002 2:08:41 PM #
The new model is too big.


RE: size?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/24/2002 11:53:34 AM #
size is too big. I will get one if Sony can come up with something that is similar to the m500 series design, no keyboard (unless they can do something like the Zairus), no camera unless it has a reasonable resolution (1 Megapixel is common on $100 digital cameras so a pathetic 320x240 is a no no! No one will use it). support for mp3pro (drop Atrac3 - it is only good on MDs!) & aac.

Hurray for clamshell!!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/25/2002 12:09:08 AM #
Why haven't all palms been made in this form factor all along? I just don't get it, it makes too much sense.
I could live without the built in MP3. My dream PDA would be this gizmo's shape and screen (and IR!!) with the TREO's wireless and no MP3. Maybe it's in the pipe?


Nathan

NR70V

PIC mobile user @ 4/12/2002 10:19:01 AM #
NR70V in Japanese version has just been released in Hong Kong. It's pretty trendy with the build-in digital cam. But it's not that practical & economical. Still in OS4.1 when PalmOS5 is coming. if you like hi-tech stuff, try it first

Wow!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/20/2002 5:20:42 PM #
It's very very cool!!

It's very very awesome!

It's very very cute!!!

sony peg-nr70v

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/21/2002 11:24:06 PM #
how clear in movin picture & is it the best

Why are the preloaded images so nice and my images s_ _ _?

spy8464 @ 6/22/2002 12:31:03 AM #
I brought a MS with me into an electronics store that had some images loaded on it by my DSC-F707 (an awsome digital camara made by Sony) in order to check out the image quality on a NR70V. To my surprise the images were horrible, nothing like the preloaded images on the devise that Sony loaded while in the factory. I can only asume that I am doing something wrong. I even tried reducing the images while recording them on the camera, stepping them down from 2048 X 1536 down to 640 X 480. And still I ended up with poor quality images. Can someone comment on this. One of my hopes was to use the NR70V as a display for all the great pictures that I have taken.

Purple?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/28/2002 3:32:37 PM #
All the colors on the Clie NR70 are purple...
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