MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Additional Details on the New Sony NR Series

NR70V Since Sony announced the PEG-NR70 and PEG-NR70V in Japan earlier this week, they have garnered unprecedented attention. While as much information was released as possible immediately after the announcement, the original report was a bit sketchy in some areas, mostly due to the English/Japanese language barrier but in some cases because the information simply wasn't available yet. Some additional details on these new handhelds is now available.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (172 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.

Down

Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:36:10 PM #
Looks like an awsome device! SONY, make available a Phone (GSM/CDMA) MemoryStick for this device and you've got yourself a new customer!

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:43:48 PM #
Personally, I'm waiting for the Microwave memorystick. You point it at some food and it warms it up for ya...

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
higgy @ 3/13/2002 4:50:22 PM #
I want the memory memory stick so I can remember where I left my socks.

On the semi serious side, I will stick with the M515. One reason: size. I carry the thing everywhere. I figure the more I carry it, the more I will use it. the M series (and V series) has held up for me in the worst environments literally around the world (several times at that).
I have never listened to an MP3, so I would look at a version with out that stuff inside. (It may be smaller also.)
The big thing is I bet this is so proprietary that when OS5 comes out there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when it is not supported on these things (things = NR series).
Sony does seem to be making a serious move on the consumer side of the house... But I could see where corporations would pull their hair out with the swift changes in the Sonys.

Higgy

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:55:28 PM #
you could probably accomplish that with the Springboard electric massager that came out last year.

15 minutes on the "shiatsu" setting will cook a 4oz beef patty to medium rare.

:P

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:16:35 PM #
"The big thing is I bet this is so proprietary that when OS5 comes out there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when it is not supported on these things (things = NR series). "

Thanks for your info. really seriously which part of the device is proprietary, I only know sony changed the screen resolution that's about all the things they changed.

When OS 5 comes out this will be proprietary as any palm OS Device running draball VZ processors.

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
james_sorenson @ 3/13/2002 5:22:42 PM #
Okay, getting back to the original thread, I'd like to "me too" the whole idea of having a Clie cellphone. I don't think this is possible with a memory-stick, though. Cell-phones need more power, an antenna, etc. and I don't think this has the microphone. However, a CLie model that replaces the built-in camera component with a built-in cellphone component would be excellent! The Treo for those who want a small and basic communicator. The Clie-Phone for us power-users who want the world in our hands.

-------
James Sorenson
RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:39:03 PM #
By "World in your hands" did you mean 2oz more and a hires screen?

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:26:46 PM #
I would prefer cell phone or other wireless technology to the camera. If these make to the US I will buy one but won't spend the extra money on the camera equipped model.

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:24:05 PM #
Totally agree with the comment about ditching the camera for a phone. Given the format and file size of the Clie's camera the camera seems like a novelty rather then a real tool. I see it as almost useless. On another note, as a designer, I applaud Sony's committment to design of the Clie and still would love to see a cell phone slipped into its compact package. I assume this would be best accomplished through a headset using a jack (or how cool would it be to use a Bluetooth Headset and the Bluetooth MS), rather then a "Treo- like" flip device.

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
fperkins @ 3/13/2002 11:12:30 PM #
I concur [with some of you I guess]. I would much rather have a phone than a digital camera.


RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:08:48 AM #
What about a VideoPhone? We have speed, Memory, Camera and expansion through the Memory Stick. I smell the beginnings of a VideoPhone!

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 1:21:18 AM #
"when OS5 comes out there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when it is not supported on these things"

Duh! OS5 won't be supported on any current Palms! It's for new CPU! No current Palm will ever run OS5.

Err... that's the point of OS5, actually.


RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
drixter @ 3/14/2002 10:34:21 AM #
I completely agree on the desirability of a cell phone. I currently carry three small electronic devices: palm V, cell phone, MD player for tunes. having ONE device that did all three would be a must-have for me. Not really interested in the Treo cuz after 4 years I'm tired of low res. If Sony made a NR w/ phone I'd buy it in a heartbeat! And KEEP the flip design please - they're much better for talking into.

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:15:36 PM #
if sony makes a palm with phone that would be like ... right hand (Sony) fighting with left hand (Sony Ericsson), Ericsson will be unhappy and file for a divorce, then probably sony will need to pay Ericsson a certain sum of money because of the breakup.

I guess they hand an agreement to not make phone on their own, but you can wish for a phone MS Module though.

Bluetooth Phone might be better
Palm_Otaku @ 3/14/2002 6:52:12 PM #
I doubt we'll ever see a phone module in a Memory Stick for the reasons posted above.

One of the cooler solutions would be a combination of the Infostick Bluetooth MS and a GPRS and Bluetooth-equipped cell phone.

There are a number of phones that would work for this available now (Ericsson T39, T68, Nokia 6210, 6310) and many more coming later this year (Nokia 6310i; 7650, 8910; Sony-Ericsson T61g, T68i, Z700).

I just hope that the next lineup of Clies has integrated Bluetooth!

RE: Needs a Phone MS, then I'll buy!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:28:03 PM #
built in bluetooth should be coming in the next round of devices.

Very interesting but US sales will disappoint

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:34:58 PM #
I have seen these types of devices before in docomo cell phones. I think they will appeal to the Japanese market but not the States. I know this is a controversial opinion but only time will tell. I think integrated cameras will fail in PDAs and phones. The technology is not stable yet. You do not combine an evolving technology with other products. I do applaud the innovation as Palm OS fan. If these devices are successful all the better for the platform.

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:46:53 PM #
Time will tell ..

The camera built-in doesnt even have a flash light so it's not intend for any serious photography, basically it's like a snapshot device.

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:36:48 PM #
Ok it's a god damn PDA, why should it be anything else than a snapshot device?

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:41:24 PM #
I was talking about the camera only ..

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:46:10 PM #
To the original poster...

Check how many comments were made on the initial article? No interest? Check the CLIE forums... No interest? I don't know what the hell you are talking about!

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:54:59 PM #

Yeah, a whopping 200 people are screaming about this thing here at PIC. Whooopie...
He's talking about how here is the US, the tyical person does not want a convergence device like this. While devices like this may be the hit in Japan, things like these have never sold well in the US. The majority of the US market usually goes raw function rather than whiz-bang, look what I can do, devices like this.

Now if Sony lost the camera, keyboard and just made it a 66mhz PalmOS with MP3, (The T750 we thought they were going to release) that may sell in the US.


RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
skytraveler @ 3/13/2002 7:57:53 PM #
There may be a lot of interest in this forum, but we represent a very small percentage of the public. If we are the only ones buying this device, then Sony would be in trouble. The general public may not be ready for a device like this since most of them seem to treat their Palm device like a glorified telephone book.

The SkyTraveler
RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 8:07:37 PM #
On the contrary, I think US sales will exceed expectations (but only in comparison to high priced PDA class; obviously, it will never outsell the M105).
Some important points to consider:
1- Coolness factor: this is one cool device. Many will buy this just to show off.
2- Built-in keyboard: many US users are more comfortable with keyboard rather than graffiti. (e.g. Blackberry; and the amount of interest the Sharp PDA with built-in keyboard has drawn).
3- Large screen: at last a screen that even PPC users would get jealous.

No, people won't buy this instead of a digital camera; or try to save the number of gadgets they will get; that's not the point. It is very cool, and US users are obsessed with anything with a flip design :-)


RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:59:19 PM #
Remember that the CAMERA is only on the NR70V version, and not the NR70. There are TWO versions of NR70.

As for the keyboard, I think normal users will LOVE the keyboard and also attract new users.

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
Palm @ 3/14/2002 1:44:09 AM #
Maybe Sony was targetting the Sharp Zaurus (one of the hottest sellers in the Japanese market) with this device...

Maybe... this device won't be released outside of Japan? (unlikely IMNSHO, but...)



hgfhfhfhfhfhfh ''fsdfdksj

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:28:12 AM #
I'm afraid the original poster is missing the point. Forget the camera -- that's just an additional gimmick. This is at the moment the creme-de-la-creme of PDAs, irrespective of OS (PPC, PalmOS, Linux). It uses a 66Mhz Dragonball (twice as much as any PalmOS device before), has a 320X480 screen (unheard of even by PPC), virtual graffiti, mp3 built-in (can listen with or without those headphones with T615C-equivalent speakers), has that enhanced 15ft infra-red remote commander function, and combines the best features of a Blackberry keyboard while allowing you to twist and hide it completely to look like a "normal" PDA.

Puhh-leeze!! This beats the crap out of anything out there so far, camera or no camera. Treat the camera as a gimmicky bonus. It's the best PDA period anyway! And it's only US$436 judging by yen prices. Price-for-feature there is no reason to get anything else unless you are strictly low-end (m105 budget).

Now think logically: why would you choose ANYTHING else over this? US sales will NOT disappoint. I'll wager you anything you want.

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:16:34 AM #
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle...

US sales probably won't disappoint, but they certainly won't astronomical, either.
I would be willing to bet that the NR-70 will release in the US at $450, with the NR-70V at at least $500. This would explain the drop of the N760C to $400. This would mean a wide variety of PalmOS devices at all major price points. Palm will still continue to sell many of its devices (most notably the m130). While people who follow PIC might be itching to get the new Sonys, I don't think the rampant enthusiasm will be quite as high in the general public. A lot of people will see that many bells & whistles to be "too much PDA," "something else to break," etc. By some of your reasoning, there would be no point in selling a variety of camcorders, CD players, DVD players, cellphones, etc., because you argue "why would anyone buy anything else?"

Sony has ADDED two cool new models to the list of already compelling PalmOS devices; they haven't replaced the other models. To argue otherwise simply proves that you have NO COMMON SENSE. (But then, if you're an engineer, that was probably already true--sorry, just a little sarcasm based on experience)

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:28:33 AM #
Tsk tsk I'm not arguing that there ought not to be a variety of handhelds at different price points. Choice is important, of course. I'm merely pointing out to the original poster that his idea, that US sales would be disappointing simply because it was "too much PDA" did not make sense.

Analyze it with any other consumer electronic device, say, Walkmans. Let's say Sony releases a new Walkman that completely eclipses its older models with superior features, yet doesn't price it at a substantially higher differential. OF COURSE this is going to cannibalize sales from everyone else, including older Sony Walkmans, due to the technological leap combined with value-for-money.

It's simply logical.

NR60 anyone?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:36:28 AM #
Just wait for it, they will hopefully get a replacement for the T615 as well soon just hope it will have the Virtual Graffiti, big screen but in the smaller T615 package.. I would definatly buy one then!

Wait and see I will!

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:38:59 AM #
Just to jump in here...

If Sony were to release such a Walkman, then it's likely the OTHER models would decrease in price to offset the disparity. I would think other PalmOS PDAs will decrease in price if, indeed, the NR-70/70V are released in the US at such prices.

I disagree with the initial post that US sales would prove disappointing. However, I think both of the previous posts in this thread have valid points. So why the argument?

I would like thayt sony add mini-camcorder
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:33:28 PM #
I would like thayt sony add mini-camcorder

RE: Very interesting but US sales will disappoint
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 5:06:21 AM #
Any word on when this will come to the US?

3 reasons this is a watershed device

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:47:31 PM #
1 - it establishes Sony as Palm's innovator and leader, a much bigger zit for Bill to squeeze that Palm or Palmsource.
2 - it leapfrogs Pocket PC for the first time in a couple years.
3 - it's a cool useful device without the above 2 reasons.

I have spoken, and whaddo I know?


RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:43:45 PM #
the darned thing is 66MHz. most high end phone has more muscle than that. Shall we talk about multimedia or screen?

don't make the world laugh. if that thing can play QuakeII, than maybe we can talk. (That beside the lack of FC port. ie. LAN/modem/Wifi.) Still having trouble doing web? or office compatibility?

It's a nifty gimicky toy, albeit well designed.

to leap frog mean it has to have more power than PX250, 8-10 hrs of battery, and in smaller than LOOX or Asus production model, all with standart ports. (mini USB, CF, SD)

This Clie is using motorola DB embedded processor, with very out dated OS. This is not leap frog, this is severaly behind. It's a clever hack that's about it.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:51:06 PM #
Yeah...you know, I'll bet EVERY designer, ESPECIALLY the Japanese, bases most of their innovations and design work on the following issue: "Can it play Quake II?"

Please...go somewhere else, troll.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:55:40 PM #
The"Evil Empire" has got problems. They are not fooling around with somebody with Pocket change.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:00:13 PM #
sounds like childish request but able to do Quake means the gadget has stable API for intense graphic application backed by processor power to run it, and all the associated needs like memory management, file, screen.

That's why nobody ever ask, "yeah but does it do black and white text file". Sorry to burst your bubble.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:12:28 PM #
> The"Evil Empire" has got problems. They are not fooling around with somebody with Pocket change.


M515 = $499
iPAQ 3765 = $549 ($50 rebate program from Compaq is still on)

look who is ripping of with good old 33mHz machine from the day of PalmIIIx?


RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:28:23 PM #
We're stooping into the religious wars of Ipaq vs. Palm where there are no winners.

"leapfrog": probably not.

"leg up" yes. Sony has set a new standard that others must follow now or build upon. This is running the current version of Palm's OS (not an outdated version) at a faster speed than anything else since Ipaq's don't outperform Palm's even with higher processors. When OS5 comes out, they'll introduce a new model that runs it. Pretty simple.

A built-in keyboard stands to attract many more new customers than any other innovation. A cell phone will mostly server to convert existing customers only.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:31:11 PM #
And maybe you kiss Billīs *ss and get the expansion memory jacket and a car charger for free...

The m505 has the memory expansion BUILT IN !! The same with m515. The battery lasts 3 days not 6 hours.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:49:26 PM #
3 days with colour screen on? Really? I'd say anything about 10 hours of full usage is ok, add to this changeable battery and I am on it.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:16:58 PM #
it maybe built in but can it handle 100Meg files in a 128Meg SD card? so it got built in SD slot, what else can it do? (oh yeah the recently announced bluetooth. whoopie doo)

how about a real expansion like CF? so maybe we can do GPS while inserting WiFI card.


3 dayss? is that "normal usage"? with that criteria, my car can keep gass for 2 yrs without refill, provided it's under "nomral usage". Drive it out of the garage and back in. Get real OK, m505 don't last 3 days under the PPC battery definition. (ie. continuous use)

Plus what can you do with 5 hrs continuous on in Palm? it got no interesting game, can't play mp3, can't do movie, nor drive networking card. maybe you can tap your appointment for 3 continuous hrs and consider it "Zen" game. Well so much for advance PDA.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:53:11 PM #
This is what Palm need leap frog by May 2002. LOOX uses PXA250, the same class of next TI ARM processor rumored to used by Palm for OS5.0

"The ultra-slim, lightweight PDA will be powered by a high-performance IntelŪ PXA250 applications processor with 32MB ROM and 64MB RAM storage capacity."

"Through the integration of a Compact Flash (CF) Type II card slot and Secure Digital (SD) memory slot,..."

"Weighing 5.9 ounces and measuring 5.15 inches wide by 3.2 inches deep and 0.7 inches high, Fujitsu's Pocket LOOX will be a powerful combination of high-end PDA and a modular connectivity concept. With a Lithium-Polymer battery users can anticipate up to 15 hoursē of working time. A second battery plug-on module is targeted to provide up to 24 hoursē of working time."

http://www.fujitsu-pc.com/www/news.shtml?
aboutus/pressreleases/pr_031302

PIC

http://pr.fujitsu.com/en/news/2002/03/12.html
http://202.217.56.130/
news/2002/03/12/pokcetloox/01fujitsu.html
http://www.zdnet.co.jp/mobile/0203/12/n_loox1.html
http://www.zdnet.co.jp/mobile/0203/12/n_loox2nd.html

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:59:22 PM #
It's a market experiment. Sony can produce a bunch
of different
form factors
(thin, fat, folding, with/without audio/camera/keyboard, etc.),
see which ones sell well, and then work
on enhancing the best selling versions (with OS5/ARM,
wireless, etc.) The did the same with the Walkman
line.

What's interesting is that Sony alone can produce a
wider range of products than almost all the Pocket PC
vendors combined. The only niche which they're
(currently!) missing is the
under $100 student model.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:30:38 PM #
"if that thing can play QuakeII, than maybe we can talk."

SHEEZZ!!!
Where do you live? Mars?
80% of the people I know can't even play Quake II in their desktops!
If you need all that power, get a laptop. The secret of Palm OS success is it's simplicity.

Man, you really need to get out more often (& get a girlfriend)

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:45:59 PM #
Isn't there some number floating around (60-80%?) saying that a huge number of palm user doesn't even install apps and only use the built in.


This is in the same category as "why would anybody want to have that" (color, sound, bigger screen). Or "Zen" (what do you mean you want different design than Vx plus 16MHz dragon ball?)

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 1:28:48 AM #
Wow... there sure are some sorry asses out there all emotionally attached to their oversized Pocket PCs. Look - at the end of the day, a PDA is not a PC. It's a totally different thing. A PDA should be completely disposable without losing data - you can drop it, smash it, then buy a new one and sync and instantly you're back in business. It must never need to be rebooted when you're running production quality apps. It must be instant on. You have to be able to sit on an 18 hour flight and not have the thing run out of juice half way like a fricky laptop. Pocket PC is catching up, but it's still a failure. My boss was showing off his new PPC2002 iPac with BT, and it crashed on him in mid demo. He wasn't ever surprised - that's just a cost of using a PDA as far as he's concerned. PPCs are too heavy, suffer from a bloatware OS, have a fraction of the apps, and are way too hard to backup and recover when lost or broken. So who is buying them? Well... there's thousands of MCSEs out there who've been through countless hours of microsoft brainwashing cram sessions. I bet you could get those guys to buy anything Bill said was cool. :) :) :)

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
Palm_Otaku @ 3/14/2002 2:40:30 AM #
It's always amusing to see PocketPC trolls coming over to a Palm-specific site to try spreading their misinformed dogma.

Could it be because...

...they feel THREATENED?? Are they thinking:

"Oh no! Sony's introduced 320x480 resolution to PalmOS compared to our 240x320!!"

"Gak! Palm OS5 is coming in a few months, there are three excellent ARM processor families available, and they're gonna run that huge library of existing apps PLUS new ones that utilize native ARM!!!"
(Motorola Dragonball MX1; TI OMAP; as well as Intel XScale which is mandatory for PocketPC 2k2)

"Urrk! M$ has defined restrictive hardware specifications for PocketPC 2002, so all the hardware is turning out basically the same, while PalmOS licencees are free to pursue various innovative designs that hit all segments of the market!!!!!"

Actually, I'd guess that only the first scenario applies at the moment -- it will take a little longer for the other shocking realities to sink in... ;-)


RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 3:49:18 AM #
>> It's always amusing to see PocketPC trolls coming over to a Palm-specific site to try spreading their misinformed dogma.

nah, It's like a sport. You know from Zen angle of it all.

>> Could it be because...
...they feel THREATENED?? Are they thinking:
"Oh no! Sony's introduced 320x480 resolution to PalmOS compared to our 240x320!!"

That's nifty, now can one change resolution at will, sub pixels all the way to XGA, rotate, virtual windows any size, and work for any applications. "Oh no, you mean 160 by 160 text is not the world standart?"


>> "Gak! Palm OS5 is coming in a few months, there are three excellent ARM processor families available, and they're gonna run that huge library of existing apps PLUS new ones that utilize native ARM!!!"
(Motorola Dragonball MX1; TI OMAP; as well as Intel XScale which is mandatory for PocketPC 2k2)

Oh hey now, we are all waiting for Godot. OS 5.0 and OMAP will save the world in the near future. (how about May on store shelf like LOOX?)


> "Urrk! M$ has defined restrictive hardware specifications for PocketPC 2002, so all the hardware is turning out basically the same, while PalmOS licencees are free to pursue various innovative designs that hit all segments of the market!!!!!"
Actually, I'd guess that only the first scenario applies at the moment -- it will take a little longer for the other shocking realities to sink in... ;-)

That commie Microsoft, insisting on CF, color screen, Flash rom, and Arm proc standart.

Say, can you use Palm modem in Handspring or Handera CF card in Sony? how about that new bluetooth card. Ooops, all the innovation, and only 3 models from single company can use it. Now lemme pull my CF WiFi card from my laptop and stick it to ......well you pick which commie PPC brand.


RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:40:03 AM #
> The"Evil Empire" has got problems. They are not fooling around with somebody with Pocket change.

M515 = $499
iPAQ 3765 = $549 ($50 rebate program from Compaq is still on)
look who is ripping of with good old 33mHz machine from the day of PalmIIIx?
-----------

Uh, I was just sent an email by Palm offering the M515 for $399.-, YES, PALM!!!

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:54:23 AM #
You know, I LOVE PPC and Palm trolling debates, but after a while they really bore me. Yes, we could go on feature after feature, bla bla bla...borrrrring. Let's just bring it to a dead close by saying.........

WAKE UP!!! What's PalmOS (NOT Palm, PalmOS!) market share? What's PPC market share? Ok, and WHY, pray may I ask???

Because no one likes to carry around a goddamn brick, THAT'S WHY. That's why the original Palm V outsold ALL Palm IIIs and all PPCs.

Until M$ comes out with smaller, lighter form factors that match or beat Palm devices and STILL maintain their feature-lead, these debates will continue to be BORING.

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:29:15 AM #
This is just a reference to a minor comment made by a M$ troll, but someone please explain this to me:

What is the fascination with watching a movie on a 3.5" screen?

My guess is the following: "I can do this with my overpriced gadget, so therefore I'm not the lifeless geek you think I am." Either that, or "I can do this, which means the fact that my johnson is microscopic and never gets used is irrelevant."

It DEFINITELY can't be: "This is a neat experience, because I can see so much detail."

Just a question...

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
Ed @ 3/14/2002 8:36:51 AM #
> Isn't there some number floating around (60-80%?) saying that a huge
> number of palm user doesn't even install apps and only use the built in.

I'm not sure whether you are saying 60-80% haven't installed a third-party app or 60-80% have. In any case, at PalmSource last month, Mike Mace said that a survey showed that 82% of Palm users are aware that they can load third-party applications onto their handhelds and 67% have done so.

---
News Editor

RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
Altema @ 3/14/2002 10:59:05 AM #
"M515 = $499
iPAQ 3765 = $549 ($50 rebate program from Compaq is still on)
look who is ripping of with good old 33mHz machine from the day of PalmIIIx?"

Actually as mentioned elsewhere, the M515 was introduced at $399, and has been available for $379 at retail stores. Every store I went to was sold out of the M515 except for one, and they had it hidden, so it is not exactly gathering dust.

In response to the other poster asking what boring things you could do with a Palm, how about creating relational databases, going through all your MS office files (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), watching movies (yes, movies), review your collection of JPG's and BMP's, in addition to enough games to make you sick... with the exception of Quake II. I'm out of time, but the point is that my co-workers with PPC could not do half of what my former M505 could do, so they don't even bother comparing them to my 144Mb M515.


RE: 3 reasons this is a watershed device
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:17:47 AM #
Play Quake II on a Palm? I have played Quake on a PPC and it sucks. I mean do you watch Lord of the Rings on your Pocket TV? Give me a break.

CF with PalmPowered handhelds
Palm_Otaku @ 3/14/2002 5:55:28 PM #
One of the interesting accessories for the new NR70-series is a CF-sleeve with it's own power supply. There is also one for the T-series, but only available in Japan AFAIK.

I'm already using a Symbol WiFi card in my HandEra 330 right now, but it's nice to know that I have the option of using it with the newer Clies as well.

Why wait for OS5?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:12:32 PM #
I don't agree with people who say they are going to forgo this new PDA(or any other PDA) and wait for an OS5 device. OS5 will add hi-res, a faster processor, and multimedia capabilities, but Sony already has all of those in it's current devices. Basically OS5 will be just Palm's way of coming out with something that it should have brought out 6-8 months ago. They are becoming good at that.

I do not currently own a PDA but I would not let the 'promise' of OS5 stop me from getting this new Sony or any other cool PDA that comes out before then.

*sigh* it is sad that Palm has to depend on the Japanese to innovate on a platform they themselves created. So I say more power to the new NR series and forget OS5.

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:37:01 PM #
Trust me They'll tell you Clie has no Accessories, it's proprietary, the hinge is gonna come off, they don't want keyboard.. what else, I hear so many of those ridiculous complians that it's not even funny.

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:55:26 PM #

OS5, nope i am waiting for OS6. I am a big BeOS fan and personally am going to wait till they get all that cool BeAI code into the PalmOS. OS5 really just doesn't impresse me from what i have seen.


RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 8:03:51 PM #
2005?

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 5:29:47 AM #
well once OS5 comes out on arm you can get it and then upgrade to OS6, OS 7... With the new Sony NR you can't really upgrade the OS

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:33:26 AM #
<< it is sad that Palm has to depend on the Japanese to innovate on a platform they themselves created. >>

This is the story of American & Japan since about 1945. The US is well-known for developing NEW products. Japan is well-known for developing BETTER products. Why does this make you sad? Does your TV make you sad? Your VCR? Your CD player? Your car? Why should Palm be a source of disappointment and get slammed so mercilessly? People certainly don't rake RCA over the coals the way they do Palm...

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:07:00 AM #
Palm deserve what it got. They could spent half billion dolar on new headquarter back in Vx day and didn't innovate. Half billion bucks can send 2 small sattelite probes to Mars, so don't tell me they can't make better product rivaling iPaq ahead of PPC momentum.

And now they better deliver super spiffy 5.0 or they will lost the majority market share forever. This is worst than Apple's story.

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:46:34 AM #
Should Palm have expanded its headquarters during the glory days of V/Vx? That's debatable, but probably not. They were likely caught in the apparent self-glorifying invincible thinking of the Dot-Com era. Hindsight is always 20-20.

Is Palm doomed to a fate worse than Apple? I doubt it. They have catching up to do--CLEARLY--but I think they're moving in the right direction. It appears Sony is moving toward ultra-high-end devices. Palm is handling mostly low-mid range devices, as well as the "former" high end, the V/m500 series, which is now more "upper-middle." PalmSource will handle the OS that powers all levels.

So who loses? Handera, if their niche device can't increase the size of its niche; Handspring, as clearly seen by the impending death of the Visor (see the vultures?), plus they simply can't compete with the Ericcsons & Nokias of the world on the phone market, and yes, Microsoft, who's so busy "centrally planning" the Pocket PC that they're stifling innovation and ESPECIALLY variety. Didn't they pay attention the past 20 years? Central planning doesn't work--you sanitize your product lines and lose diversification. Which is why, in 2 years, PPC users will all have essentially the same machine in slightly different packages, and Palm users will have a wide range of devices, ALL of whom can interact with each other effectively. This is also why Micro$oft will actually BENEFIT from being broken up, despite "Whiner Bill's" tantrums.

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:49:43 AM #
Hardly. We'd all be using Macs if Jobs had really been as forward-thinking as he claims to be and licensed the Mac OS to other manufacturers 20 years ago. Apple's story is one of niche success in spite of themselves, and doesn't remotely compare to Palm. Palm created the first really practical PDA, and then licensed out the OS to really solidify their hold on the market. Great strategy in a Microsoft world, if you ask me.

The poster above who noted the pattern of US creation leading to Japanese innovation is correct. With very few exceptions, America blazes the path for high-technology consumerism. Historically, Japanese corporations have always been exceptionally gifted at copying and then building on American creativity. (That is meant as a compliment, although I doubt it sounds like it.)

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:58:52 AM #
"Which is why, in 2 years, PPC users will all have essentially the same machine in slightly different packages"

We already do. The only really distinguishing characteristics between PocketPC 2002 machines is battery life and expansion slots. Otherwise, they're virtually the same. If you're shopping for a PPC nowadays, the decision effectively comes down to whether you think Jornadas look better than iPaqs.

RE: Why wait for OS5?
santa @ 3/14/2002 11:03:13 AM #
It obvious why to wait for OS5.
These new Clies are wonderful but they DO NOT have multimedia capabilities to match those of PPC's.
Only with the release of OS5 or to be more specific the ARM cpu's will multimedia stuff be possible. Match that with these new Clies design and features and SONY will have a new customer come Autumn when Im guessing SONY will release them.
Just think to yourself how cool those Clies will be with a ARM cpu powering them!

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:20:23 AM #
Palm, Handspring, Sony etc will co-exist. I don't understand why people say Palm does not innovate. So what if their products don't have the 'woo' factor. It gives us choices & variety. It's like the mobile phone or car market. I mean you can't have crap GM producing every damn car in the world with one design can you?

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:29:36 PM #
OS5 does not support hack. And hacks are more important to me than the current so called improvements brought by OS5. We all know it will take years for OS5 to be rounded...
So go Sony go! OS4+ is the way to go!
Eric

RE: Why wait for OS5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:35:01 PM #
"So go Sony go! OS4+ is the way to go!"
Should we hire some cheerleaders to do the cheer ?
for some reason I think this cheer kinda fits any where
"North East South West XXXX is the Best"
Weird.

O well I really like this device, but I read something on the PDA Live (something like that) Forum that the Dragonball Super VZ Processor could emulate a ARM CPU someone even say he saw a demo, so the 10MB of Flash ram might be there for emulation code.

RE: Why wait for OS5?
jjsoh @ 3/14/2002 3:33:33 PM #
> OS5 does not support hack. And hacks are more
> important to me than the current so called
> improvements brought by OS5. We all know it will
> take years for OS5 to be rounded...
>

As I understand it, only the current hacks available in Palm OS 4, and below, will not be compatible with OS 5. That doesn't mean OS 5 will not support hacks. It just means that developers will have to port over (or newly create) hacks for OS 5.

RE: Why wait for OS5?
jjsoh @ 3/14/2002 3:38:23 PM #
Wow. I didn't want to troll like this, but look at all those 3's in the time of my last post! ^_^ Sorry guys, coulnd't resist.

Really small!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:22:18 PM #
Looks almost the same size as the T615, except for the
hinge/camera!! Amazing..

RE: Really small!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:57:24 AM #
Funny...others view it as a behemoth, especially when it's open.

So I wonder, is the glass half-empty or half-full?

RE: Really small!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:22:56 PM #
Basically if you want to critisize it it's HUGE

if you like it, it's small.

Honestly though I think sony discovered something, they find out that a device being narrow is more important than being small. Being narrow it'll feel smaller when you hold it, who cares how long it is as long as it's acceptable.

RE: Really small!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 4:19:43 PM #
Actually it is SMALL!
Look at the picture side by side with the T615 (closed)
just a bit larger, otherwise the same size!
Since most of the pictures show it open, it does look larger than it really is.

NR = Not Realistic

mikecane @ 3/13/2002 5:11:22 PM #
What I'm wondering about is if the screen orientation can be manually changed. Going through that lift-twist-drop maneuver just to do Graffiti requires too much thought and too much time. Graffiti people will just want to hold it "upside down" with the keyboard as a raised lid.

Very good article, Ed.

RE: NR = Not Realistic
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:11:56 PM #
not practical...the lower half of the device is heavier than the screen portion...turning the device upside down will make it very uncomfortable to use....grafitti users can leave the keyboard covered and the screen exposed at all times for quicker useability. all you would need is a protective case.

RE: NR = Not Realistic
Foo Fighter @ 3/14/2002 12:46:28 AM #
That was my impression as well, but Sony seems to be aiming this device at the keyboard crowd, not Graffiti fans. I'm afraid that, over time, character input may be on its way out. :-(



RE: NR = Not Realistic
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:34:30 AM #
> Sony seems to be aiming this device at the keyboard crowd

This device becomes massive (length-wise anyow) with the keyboard open. Other than for sitting it on a desk/table (for which the thumbboard becomes kind of stupid), I don't know who would want to use the keyboard feature of this. Sony packed a lot of neat hardware in there, but I'm with the NR=Not Realistic comment. Unless you're getting this to show off to others, I'd don't see this flip-twist design as practical in any sense.

RE: NR = Not Realistic
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:43:41 AM #
I think the keyboard is primarily designed to use in-hand, like a Blackberry. Since it has the T-series connector, someone who wanted to use the keyboard on a tabletop could use a Stowaway (once they either make a T-series keyboard or an adapter for the current Clie keyboard). This would eliminate weight distribution issues. AND it would be a whole lot more practical, if you intend to use the keyboard on a tabletop.

Will you be able to upgrade to os5?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:35:19 PM #
After owning 3 palm models I am so happy with the OS. I have said for a while that my next one will be a Sony. The only thing that will stop me buying this model is that it might be limited to OS5 only. Will you be able to upgrade to OS5 or is the hardware to limited?

RE: Will you be able to upgrade to os5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:42:02 PM #
No this one won't be able to upgrade to OS 5 because it uses DragonBall Super VZ processor, they'll need DragonBall MX1 which I think it's not even avaliable yet.

RE: Will you be able to upgrade to os5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:42:20 PM #
As far as I know Palm OS 5 will only run on the new arm devices, so it will not be possible to upgrade the new Sony device.

-haemish

RE: Will you be able to upgrade to os5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:00:43 PM #
Does it even matter? OS 5 is just OS 4 ported to ARM anyway. There are hardly any benefits even if it did run on current processors.

2c


RE: Will you be able to upgrade to os5?
big_raji @ 3/13/2002 10:44:11 PM #
I think native Hi-Resolution is a feature of OS5. This may be important if developers decide to only support Palm's implementation of Hi-Res, and not Sony's.

Virtual Graffiti may be another thing that will be different on OS5 than Sony's way of doing it.



---
If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: Will you be able to upgrade to os5?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 11:12:58 PM #
"I think native Hi-Resolution is a feature of OS5. This may be important if developers decide to only support Palm's implementation of Hi-Res, and not Sony's.
Virtual Graffiti may be another thing that will be different on OS5 than Sony's way of doing it."

As usual I'll tell you that Sony just need to write a thin layer of code in order to make their API to be compatible with palm's API.

Then As usual someone will tell me it won't be compatble

Then as usual I'll have to tell someone again that it could be easily solved,

then again some one will tell me Sony's proprietary implementation will lose support ..

Will this infinity loop ever stop ??

RE: Will you be able to upgrade to os5?
big_raji @ 3/13/2002 11:30:33 PM #
> As usual I'll tell you that Sony just need to write
> a thin layer of code in order to make their API to
> be compatible with palm's API.

> Then As usual someone will tell me it won't be
> compatble
> Then as usual I'll have to tell someone again that
> it could be easily solved,

> then again some one will tell me Sony's proprietary
> implementation will lose support ..

> Will this infinity loop ever stop ??

You're right. We should all stop with the "What ifs" and the "I think this might happen".

I'm just going to sit at home now, seclude myself from all rumors and announcements of future products, and never hope for anything that is better than I currently have. :P

Anyways, I was just responding to someone's question about whether there are any benefits to OS5 over an OS4 device with proprietary customizations. I listed the possible advantages of OS5, stated they were only a possibility by using the words "may" and "if", and that's it. I think you're reading way more into my statements than I actually wrote.

---
If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

OS5/ARM 3G Phone Super Clie

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:38:58 PM #
I'm waiting for this! My guess is Q3 2003.

RE: OS5/ARM 3G Phone Super Clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:54:44 PM #
keep on waiting. OS 5.0 is not going to be ready for another half year, and the TI proc is new to Palm and the world too.

How about early 2004?

RE: OS5/ARM 3G Phone Super Clie
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 8:24:39 PM #
At the rate Sony is innovating, I see first quarter 2003.

RE: OS5/ARM 3G Phone Super Clie
Palm @ 3/14/2002 1:16:59 AM #
Well the 3G may take a while, but golden master of OS5 is due to ship to licencees late spring/early summer.
With beta versions already in their hands, how long do you *seriously* think Sony (or Palm, or...) will take until they release an ARM-powered device?

hgfhfhfhfhfhfh ''fsdfdksj

I'd like to see the screen and cpu on a T series

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 5:37:32 PM #
I wonder if there will be a new model of the T series comming with the screen from this device along with the virtual graffiti and a 66 mhz Super VZ?
That in the T series form factor would be my dream PDA


RE: I'd like to see the screen and cpu on a T series
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:32:15 PM #
I bet that in another 3 months you will see a new T-series with 320 X 480 screen with the fast processor to replace the T600c in Japan.

RE: I'd like to see the screen and cpu on a T series
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 6:57:21 PM #
Yes, an M515 with hires, virtual graffiti, 66Mhz, stereo sound in headpjone jack, microphone for recording. No stupid sony buttons, no japan camera, no keyboard. This would be my dream palm machine.

RE: I'd like to see the screen and cpu on a T series
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 7:08:16 PM #
>Yes, an M515 with hires, virtual graffiti, 66Mhz, stereo sound in headpjone jack, microphone for recording. No stupid sony buttons, no japan camera, no keyboard. This would be my dream palm machine.

I predict that Palm will release a model like this in about 2006, 3-4 years after Sony released the same thing.

RE: I'd like to see the screen and cpu on a T series
scromer @ 3/13/2002 9:16:59 PM #
I've been tempted lately to buy a T615, but the T615 form factor with virtual graffiti and all the other bells and whistles would definitely be worth waiting.

RE: I'd like to see the screen OUTDOORS!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 11:32:44 PM #
Can anyone for sure say if you can see this new Sony outdoors in sunlight.

Please reply...

Sizzle & Pop!

SuccessWizard @ 3/13/2002 8:36:57 PM #
I have always been told that you sell the sizzle not the steak. These units offer sizzle on a few levels...

I think these units will take a major step forward for Sony in US markets. This unit is different than anything anyone in the US has ever had their hands on to date. I don't think you can compare it to a mobile phone in US market penatration. People in the US will lay out $500 for a great PDA, but not for a mobile phone, so these units can be successful if the sizzle burns bright enough.

The form factor, feature inventory and the "innovativeness" will attract people like moths to a bug light -- Sony will get the sizzle and pop!

I've never been a real Sony Clie fan, but, I like these units enough to possibly buy one.

Mike Lohsl
Palm & ACT! Advisor

www.successwizard.com

RE: Sizzle & Pop!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:38:33 PM #
Totally Agree!

RE: Sizzle & Pop!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:46:15 AM #
These devices may sell well in Japan, but they would be an absolute flop in the US. Handheld PCs have already failed in the US, and this is just an even more poorly designed variant of one. Great features, but poor design for the US market.

RE: Sizzle & Pop!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 11:57:33 AM #
"These devices may sell well in Japan, but they would be an absolute flop in the US. Handheld PCs have already failed in the US, and this is just an even more poorly designed variant of one. Great features, but poor design for the US market."

You must know that Sony don't design a PDA just for US market and if you don't like these devices, it shows that you may not be the target group for Sony.

What you perceived as poorly designed is only what you think it is, and not to many others whom may see it as a great designed product. So just let each and everyone has his/her views.

RE: Sizzle & Pop!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/16/2002 9:54:47 AM #
well, since it is impossible to define "flop" (heck, sony only has 6% of sales so that sounds like a flop already), and sony obviously thinks that there is some market for this baby.

What this is basically doing is putting out the best of the Palms with a Sony name on it. Which leads to people talking about the Sony-Palms which leads to the normal person hearing about it (although they don't understand it) so that when they decide they too need a "Palm" and they see one by "Sony"... Click!

Sony doesn't have a majority of the Palm OS market. They obviously want some. And it looks like they are here for the long haul. They are establishing a STRONG presence in the marketplace with 6 different models (i think) at just about every price point.

They have used this process before. Sony makes some of the best audio equipment, but the average consumer just knows that sony makes "Good" stuff. So when they go to buy something, they buy the cheapest sony they can find.

I have a M505, I still believe that it was the best handheld available (notice, i said available) when i decided to buy. Right now, it would be a dead heat between the T615 and M515, but once this makes it to market....

But, if i had to buy one today, it would be the T615 or M515, because it doesn't matter what is coming out tomorrow, when it is today.

Nategall!

RE: Sizzle & Pop!
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/16/2002 10:59:57 AM #
"heck, sony only has 6% of sales so that sounds like a flop already"

You gotta understand 6% marketshare in less than 2 years is pretty impressive specially a market that already has a dominant player. iPaq has been in the market for how long ?? I don't know but much longer than Sony they got 7%.

Could it be any bigger?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 8:45:49 PM #
I'm sorry but this device is in between a laptop and a pda. It's much larger and I don't think poeple are oging to want to carry this bulky thing around.

It's got sodme great features, but a pda should be palmed sized and this will be a turn off for a lot of people.

How is this device not palmsized !?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:06:16 PM #
How is this device not palmsized !?

what do u expect??
xumdeo @ 3/13/2002 9:16:29 PM #
with a built in keyboard and a builtin camera and a builtin ms slot, this thing is already amazingly small (unless u want a smaller screen or a cd-rom drive on yer palm) take a look at sharp's zaurus. u'll know how gracious we are to have a NR clie....

RE: Could it be any bigger?
martopiggus @ 3/13/2002 10:23:08 PM #
You could always buy a T615 or m515 if you want a small size PDA. CHOICE! Those can tolerate the size and wish to play with more gadgets should get this, don't you get it?

RE: Could it be any bigger?
Altema @ 3/14/2002 2:55:30 PM #
"CHOICE"

You are kidding, we can CHOOSE our devices?!!

Nobody told me! I have been here sweating my next decision, thinking that picking the wrong PDA would mean the death sentence! The cars driving by at night, you mean I don't have to guess which ones are the hitmen from the sony or palm camps? Whew! I can finally sleep and get rid of the brown bag I keep my, my,... oh wait, I forgot which PDA I had...

That's what she said
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:42:00 PM #
> You are kidding, we can CHOOSE our devices?!!

Not according to some of the people who write these comments.

Typical comment:
You WILL buy the same handheld I got or you are INSANE!! There is one one possible choice, the one I made!!!! EVERYONE who doesn't own a the same handheld I got is a MORON!!!!!

Where's the choice in that?

Does Microsoft Need Sony?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 8:05:01 PM #
This is getting juicy! While most people think that Sony with 6% (from 2% before) market share of PalmOS devices is too small and insignificant, they have gone ahead and pushed the design envelop not only for PalmOS devices but for any PDA devices as well.

Sony doesn't "own" their own OS like Microsoft and Palm, and it gives them the advantage to develop products where they think consumers will be. For one, Microsoft should have given a lot more attention to Sony and win them to their side if they want more than just the iPaq to be their poster child for PPC 2002.

I know I am committing heresy on PIC but Palm better wake-up and kiss Sony's a**e because obviously without Sony, they are slowly going down if they continue releasing duds like the m515.

And as much as some people here love the "simplicity" of Palm, we are not going to continue to fork out $300 for an expensive organizer that mobile phones can also do - and more! Even the cheap Casio Pocket Viewers can do nearly as much.

Sony is very successful with their VAIO range and they can simply include a PPC 2002 powered VAIO. SonyEricsson is also in the same market with Symbian devices, so if their P800-type devices steal the market, guess where they'll be heading?

What readers should recognize is Sony knows how to deliver it to the consumers. So, if I were Microsoft I may not have the best PDA OS but if I have a silver bullet engraved with SONY, I might just hit the target.

If you see how far the Clie range has come from the S300 series to the NR-series you will begin to appreciate Sony's effort. Even within the Clie range now they have covered broad market needs.

Don't miss the forest for the trees. Sony is what both Microsoft AND Palm wants on their side. Whether you like the T-series and NR-series or not compared to Palm/Handspring/iPaq offering now does not really matter. What matters is what Sony can do and your dream machine gets closer each time Sony releases a new product.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:05:41 PM #
>> they are slowly going down if they continue releasing duds like the m515.

what do you mean m515 is a dud?
wait until they release the hot sizzling claudia schiffer m515. than the world will take it by storm.

<painfull groan>

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:10:26 PM #
the m515 is already released ... According to your reaction you do't even know it's released ... Storm ?? what storm

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:17:32 PM #
> wait until they release the hot sizzling claudia schiffer m515.

Your endless whining would be a tiny bit more interesting if it was backed up by facts. The Claudia Schiffer and Michael Jordan Palms were put out by a reseller named PTN Media, not Palm itself. PTN Media buys them from Palm and then resells them. Your complaints are on the level of saying Microsoft stinks because you don't like the woman on the cover of PC Mall.

Someone makes intelligent analysis of Sony's role in the computer industry and the most intelligent response you can make is criticize a small uninvolved company's marketing strategy. Wow, I'm so impressed with you.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 9:39:12 PM #
Why would Microsoft want to switch Sony? At this rate Sony is going to reduce Palm to selling 5 bucks a piece OS license to Sony a year from now.


And Microsoft doesn't even need to break a sweat stomping Palm market share. And than Sony is stagnant OS from a dying company. It'll beg for the lucrative high end handheld market afforded by feature rich OS and tight coupling with intel proc.


voila. end of business strategy.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 1:29:21 AM #
>Why would Microsoft want to switch Sony?


The writer was suggesting that Microsoft can do with Sony on their side when Sony has a PC-based product line (VAIO) and that means they can also include PPC 2002 products if they want to. Besides, iPaq seems to be the only one from the PPC 2002 stable that anybody seriously lust after.


If Sony can squeeze so much out of PalmOS/SuperVZ for their NR-series, think what else they can do with PPC.


>It'll beg for the lucrative high end handheld market...


Lucrative for who? Microsoft?

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 1:46:27 AM #
Sony switch to Palm? Dude, the whole Sony+Palm thing is specifically Sony's way of sticking it to the evil empire. PS2, then PS3, will be Sony's way of breaking into the lucrative console/PC entertainment device convergence market. This is where MS want's to go with the subsequent generations of XBox. Sony and MS are dire enemies, and they want to own your living room. The difference is that Bill also wants your soul and Balmer looks much more dorky than Nobuyuki Idei. :)

The clie is a strategic device. If your family all keep their data on memory sticks, guess what, you'll buy a Sony home entertainment system that uses memory sticks. You'll buy Sony digital cameras, you'll buy Sony. It's a plan. Hell, you've gotta have a plan, right? :)

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 2:04:59 AM #
Guess what most ppl are already using MS Camera, MS Phone, MS Mp3 players, MS on Computer, even MS Doggie, for most part of Asia, MS is quite popular, and last time I check MS has a worldwide market share in flash media of about 25%, and SD is like 2%.

of course it's their market strategy to support their own technology, but I really don't see the big advantage of SD while MS has 12 times more market share than SD.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:28:12 AM #
Sony will never switch to PPC. Microsoft issued a very restrictive set of hardware guidelines with Pocket PC 2002. One effect of that was to make all the new handhelds almost exactly the same. Another is Sony couldn't use the Memory Stick.

Sony uses Windows in its VAIOs because Microsoft has a monopoly. If there was another viable option, Sony would use it. The two companies hate each other. Sony is one of the few companies with the guts and muscle to testify against Microsoft in its never-ending anti-trust case.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:40:58 AM #
<< Sony will never switch to PPC. Microsoft issued a very restrictive set of hardware guidelines with Pocket PC 2002. >>

And this is why you will NEVER see this kind of incredible product development on the PPC side. Micro$oft is too busy "centrally planning" the future of PPC, while PalmSource is creating an open, dynamic system that allows its licensees to spread their wings.

A loaded question: which platform will OBVIOUSLY be more customizable, leading to a wide range of devices that appeal to any and every consumer? Duh...

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:59:56 AM #
I think Microsoft way of dictating minimum hardware standart is better.

1. it helps out on peripherals. Standart CF SD is supported in all brand. That include drivers.

2. programers can count on certain thing like screen resolution or peripheral API call to exist.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:20:34 AM #
> I think Microsoft way of dictating minimum hardware standart is better.

Of course that's what you think. You're a Pocket PC troll who has only come here to irritate Palm users because you have no life. My guess is you are a high-school kid on Spring Break who isn't cool enough to go to Florida. Your Mom took your Xbox away from you because you didn't clean your room and you are trolling to give yourself something to do. I suggest you go outside and try to find a real life somewhere. Maybe make a friend.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:43:14 AM #
*CHOKE* another PPC troll lugging his heavy-club PPC. Such pity I feel for you. WHY DON'T YOU GUYS GET IT?
Until M$ gets out PPCs with smaller, lighter form factors that match or beat Palm devices, and STILL maintain their feature-lead, 70% of the market (at last count) will not carry the goddamn bricks around.
SO WHAT IF YOU HAVE BETTER MULTIMEDIA? I might as well carry a subnote! PORTABILITY, my friends, is the key to cracking the handheld market. It's even more impt than features.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:00:35 AM #
<< I think Microsoft way of dictating minimum hardware standart is better.
1. it helps out on peripherals. Standart CF SD is supported in all brand. That include drivers.
2. programers can count on certain thing like screen resolution or peripheral API call to exist. >>

This is the same kind of reasoning, on a different level, that the Soviets used to use on the Supply side of the economic equation. "Central planning" meant efficiency and stability. This is why Khrushchev pounded his shoe at the UN and said "We will bury you!" I'm sure Bill has the same feeling.

Those of us who paid attention in history know that central planning emphasizes efficiency & stability AT THE EXPENSE of variety, innovation, incentive, growth, etc. PPC looks good now, but wait 2 years, or whenever Micro$oft gets bored with it. We also know that it's Supply AND DEMAND that make the economy tick.
The PalmOS is simply more responsive to WHAT PEOPLE WANT, be it a basic organizer or a multimedia machine--and just wait for OS5 and beyond.

To all you PPC trolls who insist on adhering to the world according to Bill, just remember: the Soviets worked very hard to convince its people, too, and they truly believed their system was best (or else).

Perhaps the PPC ought to be offered in a red case, eh, comrade?

Does Sony Need Microsoft???
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:04:44 AM #
NO, as we all can see they do wonderful PDAs( with PalmOS) and great mobiles ( with Ericsson/Symbian ) and then there is the PS and PCs going towards Linux, palm better make sure they do not loose Sony to Linux/Symbian.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:44:11 AM #
I agree with the reader above. Palm needs a gorilla like Sony to fight Redmond's gorilla. It was Sony and not Palm that came out with many a first. And each time they come out with products that have set higher benchmarks not just for Palm devices but for PDAs too.

But, M$ is not sleeping either. Look at their Smartphone 2002 products coming out soon. Some pretty nifty stuff.

''Standart''
rueyeet @ 3/14/2002 1:42:52 PM #
If you're going to try to impress people with the intelligence of your arguments, PPC missionary, at least try to spell the simpler words correctly. It's "standard", not "standart".

>Why would Microsoft want to switch Sony? At this rate Sony is going to
>reduce Palm to selling 5 bucks a piece OS license to Sony a year from now.
>And Microsoft doesn't even need to break a sweat stomping Palm market
>share. And than Sony is stagnant OS from a dying company.

This is precisely why Palm split into two companies. While Palm the hardware company may well yet go under in the long run because of real or perceived lack of innovation, PalmSource can survive. Under your scenario (or what I think is your scenario; it's not worded well enough to tell) Palm Hardware is going under because Sony took over their market share. Since Palm OS devices still outsell PPC devices by at least two to one, I don't think that would help Microsoft at all--it would just give it a bigger and more "innovative" competitor with much more operating capital.

And Microsoft has been trying to beat Palm's market share ever since they started trying to sell handhelds, and failing. At last count, didn't the Palm OS outsell PPC by two to one?

>It'll beg for the lucrative high end handheld market afforded by feature rich OS
>and tight coupling with intel proc.

I have yet to see a feature of that "feature-rich" PPC OS that Palm users or developers haven't been able to duplicate, or do better. Multimedia may be the possible exception, but I've been hearing "multimedia" being tossed around like some kind of sacred buzzword for about five years now.....how many more years is that still going to be the "next big thing"? How much multimedia does the average person really use? MP3's and photo albums would be my guess. Anything more than that (streaming video, movies) is just wasted on a tiny screen.

And there is nothing magically superior about an Intel processor when the OS needs that much "muscle" just to function. Less OS overhead means more processing and memory for running applications....it'll be neat to see how fast the Palm OS and apps will run on the ARM processors. Likewise there's nothing inherently better about Compact Flash, especially if you happen to own a whole lot of Sony gizmos that take Memory Sticks.

>voila. end of business strategy.

It really beats me how PPC advocates can say on one hand that Palm will die because they keep releasing essentially the same machine, and then on the other hand turn around and hail Microsoft's restrictions on PPC hardware as a good idea.

And speaking of Microsoft, that's one thing about their business strategy that annoys the hell out of me. They assume they know how everyone else should want to do things, make that the "standard", and force it on you whether you like doing it their way or not. In Windows, I'm constantly having to compensate for Microsoft's ideas of what it thinks I'm doing and the auto-settings it tries to anticipate me with; why would I want that on my handheld?

M$ Smartphone 2k2 a.k.a. Stinger
Palm_Otaku @ 3/14/2002 6:17:23 PM #
MicroSoft made some big press announcements at the recent 3GSM conference in Cannes (the pre-eminent cell phone event).

Industry analysts were very quick to pick up on the fact that there were almost no manufacturers who are willing to sign up to actually build any hardware based on this platform.

Perhaps they should change the code name from Stinger to Stillborn?

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:28:11 PM #
Smartphone 2K2 - You are quite wrong with that. Microsoft have Sendo and Texas Instruments signed up for it (as far as I know). Orange Mobile will be the OEM reseller for TI and the machines do look good. It isn't vaporware. The products are working already.

Except for Treo, I am waiting who else from Palm camp will come out with one. Hopefully Sony but that will compete against their SonyEricsson P800.

RE: Does Microsoft Need Sony?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 8:17:08 AM #
<< Industry analysts were very quick to pick up on the fact that there were almost no manufacturers who are willing to sign up to actually build any hardware based on this platform. >>

Perhaps they're reluctant to have "Big Brother Bill" DICTATE to them EXACTLY how they're to run their production. Microsoft is getting (or perhaps "has gotten) "too big for its britches" and is micro-managing all its partners. While this won't destroy the company --it's simply too big for that-- it WILL bring it down a peg or two.

Stinger is the beginning of the end for PPC...

RE: M$ Smartphone 2k2 a.k.a. Stinger
Palm_Otaku @ 3/15/2002 2:24:40 PM #
Smartphone 2K2 - You are quite wrong with that. Microsoft have Sendo and Texas Instruments signed up for it (as far as I know).

Here's a tip for being taken seriously in the future: check your facts first, THEN post ;-)

The TI is a reference design: the only two companies who have committed to making a Stinger are Sendo (with the Z100) and Compal (notCompaq). Last February Samsung and Mitsubishi (under the Trium brand name) had said they'd produce Stingers, but have since backed away.

IOW, none of the top 10 cell phone makers on board, and analysists are essentially saying that "Smartphone 2k2 platform is to cell phones as Bob was to PCs"

Pocket PC Phone edition is probably going to ensure Stinger never really gets off the ground.

Except for Treo, I am waiting who else from Palm camp will come out with one. Hopefully Sony but that will compete against their SonyEricsson P800."

Well, aside from the original Qualcomm pdq back in '99, we've now got the Samsung SPH-i300 and Kyocera QCP-6035. Samsung showed off the next-gen SPH-i330 at CEBit, and Palm is also rumored to be working on a "smartphone".

What will be quite interesting is how the Symbian smartphones do, the P800 looks way cool!

RE: Previous PocketPC owner
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 2:01:12 AM #
I've owned both a car and an 18 wheeler tractor trailer. A very pretty tractor trailer. Big, shiny. Lot's of chrome. It had a bed, a TV. I could live in it! But I like some of the innovations happening in the car market today. You know, when I'd move house or buy my yearly supply of beans at the wholesaler I really liked having an 18 wheeler. It was great. But it shifted like a dump truck, it seemd to use a bit more gas than the car, and finding parking when I'd nip out to the mall or pop down the road for a drive-through mcdonalds was a real problem. I started to miss what I could do with a car.

RE: Previous PocketPC owner
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 8:47:18 AM #
Once I backed up my book using a scanner, backed up my Mercedes to far and into the hedges, and backed up my cat with too much fiber. But since my German car was equipped with cat cleaners and eBooks, any American hottie can still appear okay with different access buttons.
This is serious.

Is Virtual Graffiti API compatible with Handera QVGA?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 2:47:31 AM #
Wonder how they've made it.
Incompatibilites in API can kill Handera business
easily...


RE: Is Virtual Graffiti API compatible with Handera QVGA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 2:58:25 AM #
no I think totally incompatible.

But they'll unite to one big happy family in OS 5, Handera should be able to hold on for another half year right ? :P

RE: Is Virtual Graffiti API compatible with Handera QVGA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:51:00 AM #
> But they'll unite to one big happy family in OS 5

This is sarcasm right? Palm Source sees it as a feature that different manufacturers can drop in their own APIs for hi-res, and virtual graffiti. They have no intention of resolving the API incompatibilities till something like Palm OS 6.

RE: Is Virtual Graffiti API compatible with Handera QVGA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:59:57 PM #
>They have no intention of resolving the API incompatibilities till something like Palm OS 6.

Which will essentially means both Sony and Handera APIs will be added in. That is how the licensing works ...

NR70/V proves Palm OS Classic still has room to grow

dieselboy @ 3/14/2002 5:36:57 AM #
What's most important about this device IMHO is the fact that, just when we think Palm OS Classic is at the end of its lifecycle, Sony proves that there's still room for upgrades and innovations.

A cleverly designed built-in keyboard, and a low-cost built-in camera, plus a 66-MHz CPU. They might be evolutionary, but they're practical enhancements nonetheless.

Built-in camera is the next killer-app, next to smartphones. A low-res built-in camera is cheap to include, and it allows ppl to talk snapshots of a person and add them to their contact lists. At the rate CCD prices are falling, a 320x240 built-in camera should add no more than $50 to the device by the end of the year (the original Eyemodule is only $50 now).

It's also important to note that Palm OS Classic will continue to be available after OS 5.0 ships. It's unlikely that a Treo or an m515 can be upgraded to an ARM-core due to power consumption, at least not in yr or 2 after OS 5.0's release. Moreover, phones need to be $200 or less for mass market appeal, and that pretty much limits them to grayscale Palm OS Classic for the next 2 yrs.

There will still be millions of exisiting Palm Classic devices, Palm OS 5.0 or not. A lot of Palm users want to believe that OS 5.0 (or 6.0) will once again bring Palm to the top, overnight. We want to believe that because we're uncertain about Palm's future. And with a device like the NR70(V), we should allow ourselves some comfort, knowing that Palm OS Classic can still be improved, until we all migrates to OS5/6.



RE: NR70/V proves Palm OS Classic still has room to grow
arielb @ 3/14/2002 7:07:48 AM #
Sony could still integrate a phone like the treo. But I can only imagine what Sony could come up with after OS5

RE: NR70/V proves Palm OS Classic still has room to grow
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:36:37 AM #
The sky is the limit for sony, coz they don't have Zen and they don't need Zen Luckily ... All they care is innovate, improve their product and make money, doesnt sound too bad for us :)

RE: NR70/V proves Palm OS Classic still has room to grow
pontif @ 3/14/2002 9:31:44 AM #
I know it has been said before, but everyone seems to associate ARM with the high power consumption CPU's that PPC's use. There are ARM chips running 50 to 100Mhz that use less power than the 33Mhz dragonball, and are smaller too. OS 5 and ARM does NOT have to mean larger or with greater power consumption.

RE: NR70/V proves Palm OS Classic still has room to grow
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:46:52 AM #
I agree with the statement about cpu power comsumption. I think about all the new reviews of these laptops with 'moblie' processors, blah, blah, that are supposed to help with battery life. The reviewer ultimately concedes in the end that its the SCREEN that is the most influential in the battery life not the cpu.

RE: NR70/V proves Palm OS Classic still has room to grow
FredLL @ 3/15/2002 8:44:33 AM #
The only difference is that ARM is RISC and DragonBall is CISC and a CISC chip can do much more tnah a RISC chip at the same speed
So they are not really comparable on the basis of clock speed...
The right question is : Would an ARM PalmOS PDA have a better battery life than a DragonBall PalmOS PDA for the same features ?
Then : Do we really want the same features ?

Fred

RE: NR70/V proves Palm OS Classic still has room to grow
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 8:52:38 AM #
"The only difference is that ARM is RISC and DragonBall is CISC and a CISC chip can do much more tnah a RISC chip at the same speed"

It's the other way around. Risc can do much more than Cisc at the same clock speed.

Risc is a much more feature rich design with assembly instructions more efficient, most of the time one instruction in Risc = 2 or more instructions in Cisc.

too big/long/etc.

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 9:35:29 AM #
It's just plain too bulky, moving perilously close to the "tiny laptop" spec. That hinge at the top makes me cringe and it will be trouble long-term, mark my words. Too much "let me flip it this way, turn it that way, snap this closed, now I'm ready" funny business required to actually use the damn thing. The existing Clies are winners b/c they make data mgt easier (jog wheel) and data viewing easier (bright screens), along with some fun in the sun (MP3, PG Pocket). The NR series gets away from this, adding too much bulk. Sony reached almost-perfection with the T615, I think. Add better battery life, better color representation, and built-in MP3 in same T615 chassis and perfection is reality.

RE: too big/long/etc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 10:37:36 AM #
ok. That is your humble opinion.

I will buy the new model... My opinion

Have a nice day.

RE: too big/long/etc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:10:57 AM #
This issue, I'm sure, is why Sony introduces stuff like this in Japan--regarded to be the key test market for electronics in the world.

If you're right, the Japanese will back you up, the NR series will flop, and Sony will try something else. If you're wrong, the opposite will happen.

Personally, I disagree with you somewhat. Sony's had these screens on their camcorders for a while, and they work well. Sony, I believe, is the top seller of camcorders in the US. However, for those who don't want all the hinges, I'm sure Sony will still have something on the market comparable to the T-series, and yes, the S-series--STILL their best-selling PDA.

RE: too big/long/etc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 4:50:59 PM #
The size is a factor indeed. I was sceptical too, but today on the CeBIT in Hannover/Germany I had the chance to hold the device in my own hands. IMHO it's definitely not too big, its perfect. And the keyboard feels great, much better than the Snap'n Type for my m505.

I saw my next PDA today :-)

RE: too big/long/etc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 6:50:55 PM #
i wont be buying it...simply because i have no use for a mini keyboard...ill buy a t615 then an os5 device...

RE: too big/long/etc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 12:04:39 PM #
"i wont be buying it...simply because i have no use for a mini keyboard...ill buy a t615 then an os5 device..."

So be it. And don't waste everyone time telling us what you don't want.

So what happens to the traditional PDA form factor?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 11:32:21 AM #
I for one was hoping/waiting for a T series Clie with mp3 capability...a T-715 with more RAM, OS5, etc.

While the longer screen of the NR is cool in theory, I don't think it's a critical improvement, especially
since it seems the virtual graffiti area is so predominant in the built in apps.
I also think it will be some time before alot of apps are redesigned for this one particular PDA.
320x320 resolution is still not the de facto for all software developers...now all of a sudden they have
to go back to the drawing board to figure out what to do with an additional 160 pixels.

I also think the keyboard is nifty, but non-essential, especially since the unit is not wireless.
Personally, I'm grateful for PDAs NOT having a keyboard by default.
If I want to type something, I'll use a computer.
I never really understood tiny keyboards anyhow. They're laid out in the QWERTY format, as if
you could actually type with one using more than one or two fingers at a time.

Anyhow, I can't help but wonder if the T-615 will be the last non-flip screen Clie that Sony will produce.
Will every Clie now have a flip screen? Or will they realize it's not the ideal design for everyone and
continue to make a "traditional" PDA form in addition to the "flip line"?

RK

RE: So what happens to the traditional PDA form factor?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 12:10:42 PM #
First of all, just improving the launcher with high resolution is reason enough to want it. I didn't think it would be a big deal until I started fitting up to 20 icons on my Clie preserving all of the graphic detail. Add to that a reader and picture app that supports high-res and it's a no brainer.

Plenty of people hunt and peck with two fingers on a keyboard and will be able to type more easily than using graffiti. Perhaps only 20% of the Palm OS market will want this but that's still millions of units per year.

Thumb keyboards
Palm_Otaku @ 3/14/2002 6:02:29 PM #
When I got my first RIM 950 pager I was skeptical how easy text entry would be on that tiny keyboard, but was very pleasantly surprised how quickly I could go using just two thumbs.

It works quite well, and that's why it's been adopted by the Treo 180, the Clie NR-70-series, and the various clip-on thumb-typing keyboards.

You should try it :-)

The original PDA form factor is diversifying... in the PalmOS world anyways. The PPC2k2 "clone-ware" is starting to look pretty stagnant -- will anyone notice if the HP/Compaq merger goes ahead and the iPAQ and Journada lines merge?

RE: So what happens to the traditional PDA form factor?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 9:24:00 AM #
<< The PPC2k2 "clone-ware" is starting to look pretty stagnant >>

LOL! Isn't it ironic that Star Wars, Ep 2: Attack of the Clones releases in 2002, the same year that brought you the PPC iPaq clones? I just hope the stagnation of PPC isn't a precursor to a stagnant SW series.

iNADA ?
Palm_Otaku @ 3/15/2002 1:26:15 PM #
"The PPC2k2 "clone-ware" is starting to look pretty stagnant -- will anyone notice if the HP/Compaq merger goes ahead and the iPAQ and Journada lines merge?"

I'm officially starting a rumour here about the new HP/Compaq PPC device name ;-)

Release date in Europe

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 3:55:27 PM #
I have been to the CeBIT tradeshow today. They had only one device at the Sony booth. The guy who was showing it to me said it will be available in Europe before Juli 2002 (I asked him twice cause I couldnīt believe it). This would mean that you folks from the US will see it in the shops probably before May. At least thatīs how the T-series was introduced.

Phil

RE: Release date in Europe
oli61 @ 3/14/2002 6:40:18 PM #
I was at the CeBIT, too. The guy at the booth (the Sony Dome) said "in or before July", but the guy who was demoing the devices said "in 6 month". Hmmmmmmm.

RE: Release date in Europe
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 12:09:57 PM #
I got the response that it will be available in Asia (outside Japan) around June/July

Sony hype

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 4:55:46 PM #
Many potential buyers of IT and PDA products stop buying the most recent product or version in anticipation of the next product or upgrade to come out in a few months, and will postpone their purchase as long as possible in order to avoid immediate obsolescence. The end result is:no sale. (Ever wondered why the IT and software business are in trouble?)

Many recent Sony Vaio and Clie buyers also learned that buying Sony hype often means lousy hardware quality,and total absence of effective support, with service, if any, at usurious and exorbitant conditions. The end result is: no customer.

Go on like this Sony, and soon enough the world will have pricked all your balloons, the same way they pricked Bill Gates's so called upgrades (how many companies still run Windows 98?). The market will favor the honest players - they may take longer to innovate but do show more respect for the interests of their indeed very large customer base in the proces.
The end result is a growing market of happy buyers.

RE: Sony hype
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 6:09:33 PM #
I would have to agree with you. When companies earn consumers trust, they sort of slow down the ideas that pop up to create the perfect PDA. They assume that the people would buy it anyway since it is the newest thing. That is why companies still run windows 98, and are likely to keep it. Many users have problems with sony support, but then again, not that many companies have good support to start out with!

I also think your point of view is not the way Sony sees it. I personally think that Sony feels that they need to make a large range of PDA's so they have a better chance of catching all types of consumers. Not just the keyboard likers, but the high-res consumers, slim model consumers, color screen consumers, and even low end color and monochrome consumers. They needed to play catch up and that is what they did! You can't blame them for having almost all the devices do exactly the same thing but at different prices.

I also feel these two new devices are a change. Sony is thinking once again about what will attract us consumers. The keyboard idea was a good one. You'll have to admit its something compared to what they were doing.

http://pdan.has.it

RE: Sony hype
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 6:49:02 PM #
"Many recent Sony Vaio and Clie buyers also learned that buying Sony hype often means lousy hardware quality"

Honestly do you have a clue what you are talking about? Sony is famous for many bad things, bad support, usually more expensive but never for bad quality, As far as I am concerned all of my sony product has a life span of more than 5 years, take my MD disc player for example, it has been running since 1997 and it's still working fine, support ?? what support?? If something doesnt break why spend all the money on support. Yes lousy hardware like M505 need support why ? they need to have someone sitting there 24/7 so they could receive calls from people who fried their motherboard by syncing their palm with the computer. For once I wish palm should spend less money on tech support and do more on the real product, there's no point of making a lusy product and hire 1 million people there waiting for phone calles and sending replacement when a M505 is dead.

RE: Sony hype
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/14/2002 7:45:43 PM #
Gee, by your "theory", both Sony and Microsoft should have been out of business for years ago and Palm/HS should be the most profitable business in the world (because they are slowest in innovation and 'best' customer support - $25 a call if it is your fault). But look at the truth. I do not like some of the things Sony or MS does, but let's take fact for fact, Sony has good product and find another better desktop solution for me other than windows. We live is a free market, you can buy whatever you like.

RE: Sony hype
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 6:40:17 AM #
man, you were just bitter.

Should be as fast as the OS5 processors?

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 8:47:35 AM #
I think that the 66MHz processor overclocked to 100+ MHz should be roughly equivalent to the OS5 Palms, as they are using the old apps. Anybody care to speculate? I anticipate being hypoimpressed with OS5. OS6 sounds impressive. Give me a 515 w/ high-rez, virtual graffiti (and maybe virtual buttons) and 16 MB RAM and I will race to buy it. I need a hard-working Palm, but not necessarily XM radio, surround-sound, or a phone. I think it will come out soon but with a "SONY" label on it. (I never owned a Sony, but they have "Big Mo" on their side now.)

Tuckermaclain@yahoo.com

RE: Should be as fast as the OS5 processors?
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/15/2002 8:58:38 AM #
That makes me wonder what kind of TV you use, it's really hard to not buy a Sony TV spcially while you are in US choices are pretty narrow.

Anyways Sony has their own set of philosophy, doable doesnt mean they'll do it, I don't see sony building in a radio (specially XM) in Clie anytime soon.

Anyways if you want what you described above wait for the next revision of T series.

Clie PEG NR-70V

migs @ 3/15/2002 1:58:23 PM #
Does anyone know how I can get the applications from this model to be in English? If I buy this in Japan, can I switch the PAL Os and all the applications to English and how good of an idea is this? Terrible? Will some applications work and others not? Any comments?

Rotate to landscape screen for spreadsheets, databases

robrecht @ 3/15/2002 2:05:32 PM #
Does anyone know if the screen can be rotated to landscape mode for other programs besides the photo viewer--especially for spreadsheets and databases? I suppose we will have to wait and see what software developers come up with ...?

Thanks, Robrecht

Why not collapsible Grafitti???

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/16/2002 10:59:52 AM #
OK, so the screen is great and virtual Grafitti is great and Sony is great. Why can't Sony copy something right the first time? Handera's collapsible grafitti works great but someday I'd like to go up to a higher res color model and the NR looks appealing. But what's the deal not designing the built-in apps to be able to use the full screen?? Couldn't figure out how to do it or just didn't care? What a pain to have all the different apps have to figure out their own way to pop the grafitti up. I'll probably still go for one in the T615 form factor with OS5, and hopefully by then they'll be able to make their own apps work with it. Or they will more likely just come out with a new model that does it in 30 days, making the NR obsolete....

RE: Why not collapsible Grafitti???
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/16/2002 1:58:49 PM #
"But what's the deal not designing the built-in apps to be able to use the full screen??"

Is this available on the Handera 330? If so, what applications? My understanding is that applications that want to utiltize the virtual graffiti need to be custom-tailored for the 320x240 screen...by the individual software developers.

And regarding your comment about obsolesence, name one pda that stops working once a new unit comes out? sure the old product is not as "cutting-edge" as its replacement, but that's the nature of advancement. If you don't want the new NR for fear that it will not be "cutting-edge" after several months, then don't buy it (simple, isn't it?). Wait, then wait some more. Because maybe in the distant future technology will stop advancing and then people like you will stop complaining about how devices you have are advancing so rapidly.

RE: Why not collapsible Grafitti???
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/16/2002 5:41:53 PM #
Some comments don't deserve comments, but as to the above....

ALL the built-in apps can use the full screen (ok the calculator doesn't) i.e. Memo pad, to do, schedule in all modes, Address.... With 8 font sizes to choose from.

I wasn't knocking progress, just saying that if companies like Sony would do something right the first time, they wouldn't have to come out with new models every month. Granted Handera doesn't have the cash to do this, they at least did just about everything right the first time and have not had any reason to come out with a new model other than adding color.

Sony should have had the foresight to include virtual grafitti in the 710 which came out the same time as the Handera.

T615c vs. N760c internal memory comparison

I.M. Anonymous @ 5/7/2002 4:43:27 AM #
Here's a question for Clie experts:

Does accessing programs stored on memory sticks take longer than accessing similar programs stored in internal memory? If so, is the difference in access times dramatic?

Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: