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Comments on: Logitech Announces Roll-Up and Folding Keyboards

Logitech KeyCase Logitech has just announced a wraparound fabric keyboard. The Logitech KeyCase uses ElekTex, a sturdy electronic fabric. When not in use, the keyboard wraps around the handheld, offering it some protection. The KeyCase works with Palm's Universal Connector and it will be available in the U.S. and Europe in early April for $100.

The company has also introduced a folding aluminium keyboard.

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Nice Idea, but...

big_raji @ 3/12/2002 11:00:54 AM #
This is a great idea, but I don't think I could stand typing on keys that don't get pushed down when I type.

Looks great though. Keyboard and case all in one, AND it doesn't triple the size of the PDA. I'm sure people will love it if they're not picky like I am about keyboards.

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If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: Nice Idea, but...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 11:05:03 AM #
I think its great BUT it seems that only the i705 can really use this while connected on the internet for e-mail etc?

Id prefer thumbtype keyboard or something similiar.

RE: Nice Idea, but...
mtg101 @ 3/12/2002 11:36:33 AM #
Erm... why can only the i705 use this while connected? What gives you that idea?

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russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
RE: Nice Idea, but...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 11:37:03 AM #
the new sony's come with a keyboard built right in... :-)

RE: Nice Idea, but...
fleegle @ 3/12/2002 11:40:55 AM #
I don't think the thumbtype keyboards allow you the ability to use PDAs, other than the i705, while connected to the internet also. Or was that two separate unrelated comments? (1)The use of the keyboard while connected to the internet, and (2)your preference for thumbtype keyboards.

In relation to question 1, I think the Bluetooth cards may be able to allow you to connect to the internet while using a keyboard. I definitely know that the WiFi CF cards will allow this on the HandEra 330.

RE: Nice Idea, but...
scaught @ 3/12/2002 11:46:51 AM #
i cant wait to see anyone get some serious typing done on one of those little baby sony keyboards. i hope that new sony comes with a coupon for some free carpal tunnels treatments. cripes!

RE: Nice Idea, but...
ralphm @ 3/12/2002 12:24:35 PM #
Most Palms only have one UART for both serial and IR communications. This means you cannot type while using IR for your internet connection, as far as I know.

RE: Nice Idea, but...
kevdo @ 3/12/2002 12:34:11 PM #
You could use any Palm device with an SD slot to access the internet via bluetooth cellphone -- and use the keyboard on the universal connector.

-Kevin Crossman
RE: Nice Idea, but...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:04:03 PM #
I have a Palm M505 and I use it with my Nokia IR cellphone and my PPK, both at the same time and it does work!!!
At least while I use Multimail PRO and AIM

SP

RE: Nice Idea, but...
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/12/2002 2:27:58 PM #
I think it's a very good idea but it's still expensive. It increase the price of your purhase a lot. But if you really plan to buy a case and keyboard it's a good solution.
BTW, carpal tunel is not related to the use of conmputers (hehe, make me think when everybody taught there was a link with alzeimer and deodorants because of teh aluminium). There has been a paper on the magazine Neurology. Pcworld.com had a news about that like a year ago.

Can anybody create a adapter so we can use those old keybords in the backroom with a PDA?

RE: Nice Idea, but...
dhchung @ 3/12/2002 2:45:10 PM #
I argee with bigraja, if I am a palm user, I would at least want to try it first before saying no to it

Logitech is notorious for dropping support..

fperkins @ 3/12/2002 2:04:01 PM #
of it's products.

Case 1) I bought a logitech USB webcam which they discontinued and never wrote win2k drivers for it. Their answer was to upgrade to a new webcam.

Case 2) They wont release the source code so that we can use our webcams, which don't work in w2k, on Linux. They can very easily release the source so that linux drivers can be ported over, but they refuse to do so.

I'm sure they'll stop supporting this keyboard a few months from now and you'll be forced to buy a new product.

I remember the good old days of Connectix. Too bad Logitech had to buy them out and screw it all up.

RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
big_raji @ 3/12/2002 3:50:11 PM #
Well, I don't think software/driver support will be much of an issue with this keyboard... and even if an issue arises, the onus should be on Palm.

For PCs, a webcam is created for the PCs of that day and age, and for whatever requirements are on the box. If the USB Webcam says it supports "IBM Compatible PC's running Win95/98, USB Port" then they've done their job. If you decide to run Windows 2000, and Logitech has no drivers, then it's your own fault. I know, it sucks, but YOU are choosing to upgrade to a different OS that MICROSOFT has written differently and requires different types of drivers for hardware. How is Logitech to blame?

For the Palm, Logitech is creating a keyboard for the "Universal Connector". In theory, it should work for all Palms in the future that use the Universal Connector. If Palm decides to release "Universal Connector Two" or changes something in the OS, then it's Palm's fault for changing the connector, and again your own fault for changing Palms.

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If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
taxus @ 3/12/2002 7:22:56 PM #
There *is* a driver issue here. Logitech does provide a driver for the keyboard, and it is my understanding that the driver is required in order for the keyboard to work.

I also have a now useless Logitech QuickCam, and I'm very, very, very wary of Logitech "support" (how would you feel if you had to replace your perfectly good printer because the company decided not to support it under Win2k/XP? After all, that QuickCam cost me more - CDN$175 - than an inkjet printer!).

The TypeAway keyboard looks interesting to me, but while I plan to buy a keyboard when I replace my Palm within the next 6 months, I doubt very much it will be a Logitech product. How can I trust them?

RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
fperkins @ 3/12/2002 8:21:23 PM #
*roll* You're so naive Raji.

W2k detects the camera fine, it's Logitech that won't write the drive for w2k. How would you feel if you MS Word program you used in Win98 stopped working in W2k?

It's close minded comments like the one you made above that give legitimacy to companies like Logitech. You fail to comment on the fact that they won't open their drivers up to the Linux community. Of course, you're talking out of your ass so you have no valid argument. Keep your "in theory" stuff to yourself when someone posts real experience.


RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
big_raji @ 3/12/2002 9:30:56 PM #
Wow, I think this is the first argument I've been in with a Non-Anonymous person. Cool.

> *** Taxus ***
> There *is* a driver issue here. Logitech does
> provide a driver for the keyboard, and it is my
> understanding that the driver is required in order
> for the keyboard to work.

And that driver is written by Logitech for Palm OS 4.X for Palms with the Universal Connector. If Palm follows Microsoft (Win98 Drivers under Win2000), and requires that drivers be re-written for PalmOS 5.X, then it is PALM'S lack of support you should be bitching about, not Logitech. Logitech is making a product for RIGHT NOW.

> *** fperkins ***
> *roll* You're so naive Raji.

Perhaps.

> W2k detects the camera fine, it's Logitech that
> won't write the drive for w2k. How would you feel if
> you MS Word program you used in Win98 stopped
> working in W2k?

W2k can probably detect my blender if I solder the wires just right. That's not the point. Logitech wrote drivers for Windows 95/98/NT (for example). Microsoft changed the driver architecture for Win2K/XP, and said all old drivers are now useless, everyone write new ones. Hmmmm, who's to blame there? If my Wordperfect program worked in Win98, and Microsoft guaranteed backwards compatibility for software in W2k, and Wordperfect didn't work, I'd be mad at Microsoft, not Corel.

In the same way, if Logitech writes the keyboard driver for PalmOS 4.X with Univ. Connector, and Palm releases OS 5.X, and says all previous drivers are now useless, write new ones, who's to blame there?

> It's close minded comments like the one you made
> above that give legitimacy to companies like
> Logitech.

Who's closed minded? I happen to agree that it sucks if a company doesn't support a product more than they advertise, but I also agree that they technically don't have to support a product more than advertised. I'm not giving any more legitimacy to anyone, YOU are - by assuming that they SHOULD do whatever you want.

> You fail to comment on the fact that they won't open
> their drivers up to the Linux community.

I didn't think I had to. Logitech never advertised Linux support. Logitech doesn't have to provide open drivers. Hell, they don't even have to provide binaries either. I'm sure that my Digital Camera with USB port could support a secondary webcam if Logitech would write the proper script and drivers for it. Should I be mad that they're not?

> Of course, you're talking out of your ass so you
> have no valid argument. Keep your "in theory" stuff
> to yourself when someone posts real experience.

I have no valid argument? You guys are arguing something that "Should be done if the world was happy and perfect"... How valid is that?

In theory? Real experience? Sure, 90% of companies will continue to provide additional drivers for their product for future platforms, even though it wasn't advertised. That's almost a fact. Because of that, they've set a standard, and therefore, your argument is that "In theory, since most companies already do it, then it should be a rule to do it."

I'm beginning to wonder who's talking out of their ass here.

If the Logitech keyboard is not supported by PalmOS 5.X, the first people I'm going to look at are Palm.

Of course I'd be upset if Logitech doesn't release a driver for PalmOS 5, but absolutely nowhere does it say they have to.


---
If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
fperkins @ 3/12/2002 10:16:15 PM #
Anonymous is for wimps ;-)

Im not going to debate every point cause it's all senseless. Neither one of use is going to convince each other that they are right or wrong. Needless to say, there are more important things in the world to get crazy over.

Please do this however, compare the camera that does NOT have w2k drivers:

http://www.logitech.com/cf/support/images/qcpro1.gif

to the camera that does:
http://www.logitech.com/cf/support/images/qcpro2.gif

Perhaps you can see my point on why Logitech is frustrating. Basically the same exact webcam, however, for some reason, only the 2nd camera has w2k drivers. As far as I'm concerned, anything that is USB, should have W2k drivers. I should also mention that the entire time W2k was in beta, Logitech stated on their website that they were working on W2k drivers. It wasn't until a few months after W2k was released that they decided not to support the white/beige focus ring on W2k.

I should also mention that not only does Philip's cameras support Linux, they donated some cameras to the developers to help them create drivers!

RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
big_raji @ 3/12/2002 11:04:13 PM #
fperkins:

Gah! I'm trying to keep this discussion as Palm related as possible, and your last post didn't even mention Palm. :P

Anyways, in that case, if Logitech said they are developing W2K drivers and didn't, then you're right, they're at fault. Just the same, if Logitech says that they're keyboard will work with PalmOS 5.X, and it doesn't, they'll be at fault again.

I think people have to do their research about hardware support on a platform. You should always also assume that a change in your platform will probably screw up every peripheral that connects to that platform.

I've gone through way too many OS's and been screwed by hardware support each time: MS-DOS, Novell, DesqviewX, Win3.1, OS/2 Warp 3.0, Windows95, WindowsNT, Linux, Novell Netware 3, OS/2 Warp 4.0, Windows NT 4.0, Novell Netware 4.11, more Linux, Windows98, Novell Netware 5, more Linux, Windows 2000 in that order... there's always been at least 1 hardware device that I had at every step that was no longer supported, with the exception of Win95 to Win98.

Look what you made me do. Now I'm blabbing mindlessly.

Anyways, I see your point about the quickcam, if they purposely changed the hardware just enough so the 2K/XP driver wouldn't work with the old one, but you never know. Maybe there's a huge difference in the guts of the two. But if Logitech mentions PalmOS5.X support for the keyboard, and don't follow through, they should probably burn for it.

Now, isn't that what we were talkin about in the first place?



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If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 10:46:01 AM #
One fact:
Whatever Logitech will or will not work later is something to consider. Nomatter if there's a fault or not, do I want to take the risk?
Second fact: M$ is partly to blame. I remember a paper on pcworld.com. The editor was upset because a printer that was working on win2000 wasn't working properly on XP. Like he said, isn't supposed to be the same kernel!

RE: Logitech is notorious for dropping support..
I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 2:30:22 PM #
Let's look at your statment here.

* A new web cam with better color and speed than your old Connectix cam goes for around US$100 to $200.
* Experienced Win2K / Lunix device driver development goes for about US$100 an hour.
* The average billable project time for a device driver like this is one week at the least and at this rate is US$4000 in total project cost.

So you are telling me that you are not willing to pay US$200 but willing to burn US$8000 of your time and energy into software development for a discontinued product??

No wonder the Linux community is accused of being to socialist in community feel! Reminds me of all the EU / Warsaw Pact "two cows" jokes. If you don't know them, I'll post them elsewhere.

Some software developers have no idea how valuable their time is and spend way too much time coding.


Personally I will NEVER buy another logitech product...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 8:29:47 PM #
Personally I will NEVER buy another logitech product...

Have the quickcam with the biege ring.
Run Windows xp....

now I have a paperweight.


Logitech Bluetooth Product Takes Center Stage

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/13/2002 4:49:38 AM #
Logitech's Cordless Presenter Takes Center Stage

New Bluetooth Product Doubles as Presentation Controller and Optical Mouse

CeBIT, HANOVER, Germany, March 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Logitech, today announced Cordless Presenter(TM) a handheld device that uses Bluetooth(TM) wireless technology to provide control over presentations up to a distance of 30 feet.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020312/sftu014_1.html

There's a full review at PalmPilotFiles.com

I.M. Anonymous @ 3/17/2002 4:23:15 PM #
They put up a review of the fabric keyboard today.
http://www.palmpilotfiles.com


rolling keboard

captain_strobe @ 12/13/2003 5:21:44 AM #
So now it is some time later, and infact it has played out.

Palm 5 is not supported by the logitech keyboard :-(

I saw one in PC world for 14 gbp and at that price (compared to other keyboards at 80 is pounds) It seemed like a bargain that was too good to be true.

..it was.

It doesnt work with my tt2

It is a shame it seems like a really nice pice of kit (especialy for 14) cheeper than a case alone!

Logitech say, no further support.

It seems like a wierd thing to do though, put all the R and D into making a cool product, then 'give up' I can see that perhaps sales made it not worth it.
But then to snub your customers by not letting the drivers source out.. hmm.

I am glad that I can still get parts for my old car.

Ok If I had bought this years ago, and now I was upgrading something, that I could understand, but to sell this next to the tungstens.

I blame EVERY ONE (except my self for not checking it on the web first, or doing any research, or throwing away the packaging or....)

stobe

RE: rolling keboard
driversuck @ 12/27/2003 12:48:38 AM #
ya im in the same boat i bought the keycase thinking it was just awesome, installed the drivers and plugged it into my zire 71 - NOTHING it simply said to go to www.logitech.com where i wasted my time tring to find drivers for os 5 (NONE) you think Logitich would care about making their product available to the widest range of customers - but no it seems they would rather make them angry. if there are more than two people in this situation we should flood the logetich email inboxes(i was unable to find the tech support email addresses if you know them post em so we angry consumers can make our move hahaha.... ) with requests for palm os 5 keycase support - than maybe theyll listen
i think logetich is the faulty coorpration in this situation palm had no other choice but to upgrade their processors with 0s 5 or they would be smited by their competitiom (PPC) so if logitech wants to sell palm accessorys they should at least offer supportfor newer models


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