Comments on: Sony T415 Discontinued? (Updated)

Sony's monochrome PEG-T415 now appears on the official company webstore listed as "Sold Out". Based on past experience, this is a strong indication that the model has been discontinued. If so, it will have had the shortest handheld product lifespan on record, as it first appeared in stores in the U.S. in late November of last year, a bit over four months ago.

Update: According to a Sony spokesperson, the T415 has not been discontinued. It is only temporarily out of stock.

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One more nail in the monochrome coffin

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 8:42:24 AM #
Monochrome PDA's are living on borrowed time. Yes, I know Palm's m100 series are cheap and plentiful and big sellers, but once color PDA's drop to $200, monochrome will be but a fading memory

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 8:59:50 AM #
Do not use the worst screen ever built to discuss the fate of monochrome/greyscale screens. Current color screens are nothing to get excited about either given their current lighting and power requirements.

The death of the T415 should be the final nail in the coffin of screens that are completely unreadable even with the backlight on. Why someone would release a device with a screen like the T415 in the first place is beyond me anyhow.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:05:57 AM #
I disagree. Now, if you said "One more nail in the overpriced-monochrome-with-a-hideous-screen coffin," then I would agree.

I think the idea of a monochrome handheld in an ultra-thin case is a dead issue. The Palm V series was the first, last, and ultimate expression of that combination. Visor Edge and Clie T415 have both failed miserably. Palm m500 has been disappointing, because it's basically just a Vx with an SD slot and USB. There is still a market for monochrome, but it is at the low end, where people aren't that concerned about thin or about hi-res. The m100/105 have sold very well, but they'll be discontinued soon because of lack of expandability and USB. The m125 and the S360 will still be viable handhelds for another year, maybe 2 on the outside.

Meanwhile, people are want thinner/more pocketable also seek color. This most likely includes PIC readers. So I think your comment projects your own interests on the general population, which simply doesn't work.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:56:18 AM #
Monochrome is about to die but there is no rush for that. I, like many peoples, don't need color. But I do need long battery life. Furthermore, the price is lower. And I think, except if you have a specific need for color, that a good monochrome unit is better than a cheap color pda (like the T415). Everybody know that color screen will, in the future, be in all units. But according to your words, it's like the future is now. Sorry but later is not now ;)

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 11:38:47 AM #
>> And I think, except if you have a specific need for color, that a good monochrome unit is better than a cheap color pda (like the T415). <<

Except that the term "a good monochrome unit" doesn't fit the T415. It's being discontinued as a natural consequence of its lack of demand.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:26:38 PM #
You're right. The T415 is a monchrome unit. You are also right when you say that it was not successful because of it's cheap screen rather than because it's monochrome. It's too bad because there is not much choice at this price range.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
LC @ 4/3/2002 1:27:27 PM #
I remember way back when I wanted my parents to get me a color monitor for my apple //e... My father asked simply for me to tell him WHY color was so important for school work... I eventually came up with a good answer because I got the screen.
It seems to me that every once in a while this argument crops up in one form or another.

Why color for a kid's computer...


Then, many years later the SAME arguments that are NOW being made for/against color/mono where made for laptop (portable!) screens. Battery consumption; you don't need color to run word(star/perfect etal) or 123/excel. and what happened? I doubt that you can find one NEW laptop for sale anywhere in the world that has a mono screen (apart from very specialized or rugedized machines)

Same for handhelds/pda's eventually there won't be any mono devices (appart from the VERY low end, just the same as with TV's) everyone will assume color.

Weather it is necesary for your phone book or notepad is irrelevant, tech marches on sometimes just for innovations sake.

I read somewhere that Sharp or Samsung came out with a mono 18" Flat Panel TV they could market for <$200.00 (with tv tuner) but that the first comment that their test marketing subjects made was "But I can't watch TV in B/W!" Heck, if I could buy it I would.. I don't NEED color in the kitchen but I do need counterspace! :)

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
Scott @ 4/3/2002 3:13:25 PM #
"It seems to me that every once in a while this argument crops up in one form or another."

And, once again, I'm joining in with the "monochrome" crowd. I love color. I'll pay extra for color. I won't mind decreased battery life. But monochrome is not dead in the PDA world and won't be a for a little while yet. Sure, its death will come eventually. The arguments about a color TV or even a color laptop are different than when dealing with a PDA. Aside from the battery life issue, remember that the cost of the screen is a significant percentage of the entire cost of a PDA. On a laptop, that percentage is much smaller. Until the difference in cost between a monochrome PDA screen and a color PDA screen is about $5, manufacturers will still be able to produce significantly less expensive PDAs which are monochrome than are color.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:23:15 PM #
Small B/W screen is dead, unless for under $100 PDA.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:55:01 PM #
> Small B/W screen is dead, unless for under $100 PDA.

That's funny, the small B&W screen PDAs over $100 far outsell color PDAs by a large margin.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 6:08:27 PM #
Color TV sets, when first introduced, were considered
an expensive luxury; now more than 95% of all television sets
sold, even in 3rd word markets, are color. Color
computer monitors, when first introduced, were considered
to be much too expensive and too hard to read. Now it's very
hard to buy a new monochrome monitor, except for very
specialized and expensive document imaging applications.
All laptops used to have monochrome displays; I haven't
seen a monochrome laptop for years.

Color Palmtops will eventually dominate the market.

That said, there will be monochrome Palmtops produced
for a long time. There are at least 2 reasons why:

There are many people who will value battery life
more than color, and a color display will always
require more power for the same contrast ratio.

Aging baby-boomers with declining eyesight will value
high contrast over color and it's more costly to make
a color display with as high a contrast as a
monochrome display with around same power consumption.

(things may change when color OLED panel's become cheap
to manufacture in quantity.)

Monochrome isn't dead; it's just getting focused to
the niches of lowest entry cost, highest readability,
and longest battery life.

The t415 is a bad example of doing monochrome right.
Maybe Sony will fix the display. Maybe they're just
going to upgrade the memory to 16MB or the CPU to
66 MHz to stay competitive. If you look at Walkman's;
Sony produced zillions of models to cover all kinds
of market niches. I fully expect a kid-proof
"My First Clie"(tm) someday soon.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 6:45:19 PM #
I really think the issue of battery life is being breezed over here. Color, especially high-contrast bright screen color is a huge battery drain. The other day I took my first long passenger trip since I got my m505. I was playing Bejeweled with the back light on because it was dark out. After playing for about two hours I realized that my previously full battery was now nearly empty. I didn't bring my recharger on the trip because I had gotten used to getting at least 5 or 6 hours of use with my Palm V with the backlighting on. I spent the rest of my trip trying not to use my Palm in order to preserve what little battery life I had left.

The moral: I am thinking about buying a cheap mono screened Palm for use on long trips.

Mono won't die until they can figure out how to make a readable low-power color screen that has the same battery life as a mono screen with the backlight on.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:06:35 PM #
> Mono won't die until they can figure out how to make a
> readable low-power color screen that has the same
> battery life as a mono screen with the backlight on.

Ugh. I hope we can do better than that. Mono screens with the backlight on still suck power pretty fast.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:51:08 PM #
Don't talk about Palm V battery life. It's garbage. The moment I returned mine to get my CLIE... My N7160 has the best battery life I've seen...

ciaran

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 2:12:14 AM #
Oh ya, another nail buddy in the coffin. Another year and monochrome will be in $100 devices or less. When we get a taste of os5 multimedia features, we will all want color! Die monochrome, die!

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 6:41:18 AM #
The screen on the T415 was a disgrace. It was marketed as a "paperwhite" screen but it was not even in the same league as the m500 or Edge screens. I'm glad to see this sorry chapter in PDA history closed and I hope that Sony has learned not to mislead its customers.

RE: One more nail in the monochrome coffin
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 7:07:13 AM #
I bought a Palm IIIc and have been getting about a 14 hour battery life. Sounds a lot better than all this 2-5 hour battery life crap I've been hearing.

Odd sntence....

sub_tex @ 4/3/2002 8:50:34 AM #
"This it has received good marks for its super-slim case, its monochrome screen has been a frequent source of complaints."

Shouldn't that say "THOUGH it has received..."

RE: Odd sntence....
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 8:57:00 AM #
Shouldn't your subject say "RE: Odd sentence"?

RE: Odd sentence....
Ed @ 4/3/2002 8:59:22 AM #
You are correct on both accounts.

---
News Editor
RE: Odd sntence....
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 11:45:35 AM #
Shouldn't that be counts?

RE: Odd sntence....
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 11:47:57 AM #
That's corright

RE: Odd sentence....
Ed @ 4/3/2002 12:33:05 PM #
* sigh * Go easy on me. It's been a hard week.

---
News Editor
RE: Odd sntence....
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:06:19 PM #
LMAO
-soph

RE: Odd sntence....
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 7:01:23 PM #
Well....this has been entertaining....=)

Image looks like a color screen

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:08:10 AM #
Did they really show pictures of this handheld looking like it has a color screen? You can plainly see reds and blues against a white background. No wonder they got complaints!

RE: Image looks like a color screen
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:10:52 AM #
> No wonder they got complaints!

The screen on the T415 was unreadable under most any condition. If it had even looked nearly as good as any of the Palm monochrome screens, or the Sony S-series, it probably would have sold fairly well.


Sony takeover?

LiveFaith @ 4/3/2002 9:04:53 AM #
Is there any way that Sony can make $$$ on products with such short lifespans. I doubt it. Seems they are developing and marketing "radically" new products at a 2:1 speed over Palm and H/S etc.

My inclination is that they are paying out whatever it takes to own the Palm hardware market. I don't know the stats, but from a product perspective it looks like they are doing a pretty good job of it?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Sony takeover?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 1:15:05 PM #
Sony already owns Asia Palm market.
( or dominate)


RE: Sony takeover?
spartacvs @ 4/3/2002 1:35:41 PM #
It's better to remove a bad product than leave it in the market.
Of course, Sony shouldn't have release it but the damage is done so they take the best solution to correct their mistake.

같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같
Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
Dr. Strangelove
RE: Sony takeover?
LC @ 4/3/2002 9:22:56 PM #
I don't know but would it be conceivable that sony comes out with this palm device for secondary markets?
Maybe africa, latin america etc? That way they recoup their investments? I know that some other CE companies do this and well it makes a certain sort of sense in as they have the tooling for it....

I remember reading about an Indian PDA that was supposed to do all of these marvelous things for a retail price of about $200.00 and it occurs to me that at the lower price points (<200) people don't seem to care as much about screen quality..


= = =
LC =
= = =

RE: Sony takeover?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/5/2002 9:12:37 AM #
Sony is taking the pda market by storm, they have the ability to do the r&d and if they make a product flop they can it and go back to the drawing board. In the past the companys developing palm os handhelds havent had the financial resources that sony has now. There is always heavy losses involved when entering a new market but the prospect of future profits is what keeps great technolgy coming out. I seriously doubt that sony has made any profit on it's palm devices to date.

What will fill this hole?

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:07:43 AM #
I loved this unit, except for that green screen. I wonder if Sony has it's hands on a OLED screen to make this colour, but keep the thinness. The OLED screens can be 1mm thick! But then that would just be a thin 615c right... makes sense to bring together the best of both worlds. I'd LOVE a colour 415 sized palm with a thumkeyboard off the Blackberry. I don't think I'd ever put it down!!

RE: What will fill this hole?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:14:24 AM #
Green? The screen of the T415 was black. It looked black no matter what was displayed on it. The T615 is essentially the same device, in color, only slightly thicker.

RE: What will fill this hole?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:16:56 AM #
I think the answer to your question is "dirt." This hole NEEDS to be here. There is no market for a product in this class, especially at that price. Add to that the lousy screen, and you have an inferior product with no market. Not exactly the formula for profits, is it?

RE: What will fill this hole?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:19:40 AM #
>> The screen of the T415 was black. <<

I think you've been assessing the T415 screen based on the "screenshots" (i.e., simulated images) Sony posted on its website. The T415 may be trying to be black-on-white, but it clearly has a greenish tint to it, especially with the backlight on.

RE: What will fill this hole?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:28:06 AM #
> I think you've been assessing the T415 screen based on the
> "screenshots" (i.e., simulated images) Sony posted on its website.
> The T415 may be trying to be black-on-white [...]

No, I've used the T415. There is is no white. There is no green. The screen was mostly black with a dark muddy brown-grey in the areas that were supposed to be "white". Unless you were looking at it point blank with the backlight on, the entire screen appeared completely black.

RE: What will fill this hole?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 11:41:55 AM #
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you meant it looked black-on-white, and you were saying it was just black-on-black, can't-see-it mud. Thanks for the clarification.

RE: What will fill this hole?
big_raji @ 4/3/2002 11:43:39 AM #
When I had a T415, it was clearly blue. Not green. Not black. Blue.

All the blacks were dark blue.

All the whites were not-so-dark blue.

All the greys were sort-of-dark blue.

Blue.

Obviously, I was very unhappy with my T415. Add to that the fact that 90% of apps that supported Hi-Res Sony did NOT support monochrome.

How's that for a kick in the nuts?

---
If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: What will fill this hole?
LanMan @ 4/3/2002 2:08:26 PM #
When you say that the T415 won't work with 90% of "hi-res" apps, do you mean that you just get 160x160 pixels displayed or the app won't work at all?

I'm thinking of buying a T415 and would like to know if the unit has problems with apps. I'm familar with the screen darkness issue, but I would like to know if the unit is flawed other than that.

Thanks

<><

RE: What will fill this hole?
jpfeiffer @ 4/3/2002 4:35:04 PM #
The person who commented that 90% of hi-res apps don't work on the 415 is full of sh*t.

I had no problem with app compatibility on mine, hi-res or not.

RE: What will fill this hole?
big_raji @ 4/3/2002 7:05:52 PM #
When I say 90% of hi-res apps, I'm talking about applications that specifically supported the Sony 320x320 screen.

I'm also saying that they would NOT work in Hi-Resolution, because an error message would pop up saying that the program required a color display. They WOULD work in low-res monochrome (if there was an option) or just by downloading the low-res version.

At the time, there were only a small handful of apps/games that supported the Sony Hi-Res. It may be different now, but be warned that many Hi-Res apps are also COLOR apps as well.

/me checks to see if he's really full of ****.

---
If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

First the T415, next the T615

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:17:39 AM #
This bites. The T415 is not even a year old, and it's being discontinued? That means the T615 must have one foot already in the grave, looking at Sony's past history of the N610, N710, and N760. I just purchased my T615 3 months ago. There goes my viability of getting any quality accessories.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:21:27 AM #
You know, Palm gets criticized mercilessly for developing new products too slowly. Is it possible that Sony develops new products too rapidly?

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:24:32 AM #
For what its worth, the NR-series seems to use the same syncing hardware interface as the T615. So, any cables that you might buy for the 615 should be usable with the NR-series...

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:41:19 AM #
NR-series has the same connector as the T-series. All accessories built for one can be used on others. Furthermore, a lot more accessories will come in the form of MS modules.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:36:43 AM #
NO, the T415 is discontinued because it has a flawed screen design. Don't spread false statements.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 11:50:09 AM #
I've been pissed at Palm for their handling of many things (pecially the "usb doesn't sync anymore" debacle), and Sony and Handspring have great products, but the thing that pulls me to the latest Palm hardware is their ability to get the peripheral makers onboard. The concept of the universal connector was a stroke of genius that the other companies should try to emulate. Even Handspring, who I thought was very clever, blew it a bit by not supporting Springboards in the Treo.

The PC is so dominant because of standards! PDA's could be the same.

JUST SAY NO!! To accessories
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:17:04 PM #
I figured out that without all of the accessories that I used to buy, I could afford to buy a new handheld every 8-12 months. I have a box full of modems, styli, keyboards, cases, that only work with older PDA's that I never use. Even worse, it makes you hang on to a PDA which you really don't want anymore except that you don't want to buy new accessories.

If you don't need any accessories now, you probably won't need any accessories later when they come out. Even if they do come out, a new handheld will come out 2 months after that which you might want.

Although it might be possible that Palm or Sony might standardize some of their hardware, it won't help you if you have a Sony and decide to buy the new Palm.

Say NO to accessories and YES to new handhelds!

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:38:07 PM #
If you need that many accessories, you should consider buying a laptop.

BTW the T series and the new NR series share the same connector and stylus

RE: First the T415, next the T615
Altema @ 4/3/2002 12:42:17 PM #
I don't think that this indicates the pending death of the T615. The T615 is great, while the T415 was questionable at best.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 1:28:04 PM #
>"The concept of the universal connector was a stroke of genius..."

Somebody help me out here. Why the hell is it considered 'genius' to simply keep the same god-da*ned connector from one model to the next?????? Shouldnt this be simply what is expected of PDA manufacturers? I know that for the most part it isn't the case, but Palm finally (5 yrs after their first PDA) decides to do this, and it is hailed as 'genius'. Please.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:02:22 PM #
> The concept of the universal connector was a stroke of
> genius that the other companies should try to emulate.

They have, and Palm told them no you can't use our "universal" connector.

Someone should design an open standard PDA-dock type connector. Maybe the peripheral makers themselves should do it. The whole thing is stupid, from the dark ages of computing where every company made up their own standards. It is just an RS-232 and USB slave connector combined into a single port.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:35:06 PM #
"NO, the T415 is discontinued because it has a flawed screen design. Don't spread false statements."

False statements? Keep in mind that there are many that consider the T615's washed out screen
flawed. Especially when compared to the NR screen...

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:55:55 PM #
But T615 sales are brisk. It's a pocket rocket.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:57:36 PM #
" False statements? Keep in mind that there are many that consider the T615's washed out screen
flawed. Especially when compared to the NR screen..."

So, if we follow that criteria, the M515 and m130 should also be discontinued do to their brownish whites, black grid and dim screen..

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 5:05:17 PM #
OK, now you are just trolling. Someone dared say something bad about your precious Sony and you had to strike back, whether it was true or not.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
orb2069 @ 4/3/2002 11:20:41 PM #
>>"The concept of the universal connector was a stroke of genius..."
>Somebody help me out here. Why the hell is it considered
>'genius' to simply keep the same god-da*ned connector >from one model to the next??????

This seems more like it's an idea everybody 'forgot' at some point - Around either the introduction of the Palm V, or the first Sony models, IIRC.

Palm:
(first connector)1000, 5000, Personal, Professional
(Body change, same connector) III, IIIe, IIIx,VII,VIIx
(Added Recharge power, same connector)IIIc.
(Totally diffrent.) V, Vx, etc.
(Totally diffrent AGAIN) m100, m105
(Totally diffrent ONCE MORE!) m500, m125, etc....

Handspring:
(First connector) Visor pro, etc.
(added power) Prism, Platnum.
(Totally diffrent) Edge.
(Totally diffrent AGAIN!) Treo.

I don't remember Sony's gaffs in this area - I've never been impressed by their entries enough to follow them, and it always seems like they change their connectors around so much that they never build much of an expansion following, anyways.

I don't know about you guys, but I bought a TRGPro for my last handheld - and I'll probably buy a HE330 for my next one. At least HandEra dosen't mess with folks like this.

Those who refuse to learn from history...

See 'Connector Conspiracy'
www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/connector-conspiracy.html


I /am/ the eggman.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 7:53:08 AM #
The T415 was always interesting. With a high resolution screen and a nice pricing point it looked as a good alternative to the horrible 160x160 m5xx screens, especially if you try to read ebooks in other languages like Chinese, urhh!

The T600 series will be with us for some time as it serves as a minimalist color device (ala Palm) with a slim factor. Thats why you have to buy MP3 later. The NR70s serve another need. For those wanting all the bells and whistles these do a fine job. I've never been a fan of Palm graffiti. Why don't they put some Newton technology in there?

Still poised on the brink of joining the NR70V bandwagon, there are still nagging features that most people would have liked. Why can a device with flash memory storage not have any voice recording functionality? Most phones do. Or we may really have to wait for PalmOS 5?

Still, the breath of variety in Palm devices are much more refreshing that PocketPCs, having nothing much between brands to stand out... the spec can almost be photocopied without change. StrongArm 206Mz, 320x240 65K colors screen, 64M memory, give us some originality please!

Aha, see what Sony has done! A Palm device with TWICE the screen resolution of the nearest competitor, really nice of any avid ebook fan. This is what you call product differentiation!


RE: First the T415, next the T615
Altema @ 4/4/2002 10:20:14 AM #
"So, if we follow that criteria, the M515 and m130 should also be discontinued do to their brownish whites, black grid and dim screen.."

I try to be nice and neutral when it comes to brands, but none of the information you posted is correct.

BROWNISH WHITES: It was the N760 which had a brownish tinge in direct sunlight. It's not a bad thing, just a minor side effect of the extra grid lines in sunlight, which are pretty much invisible under most conditions on the 760's otherwise spectacular screen. This is so insignificant it should not even be considered a deterrent to buying an N760. On the M130, the whites have a bluish tint to them, while the M515 whites are kind of silvery white. You can twist the screen at an odd angle when the sun is low on the horizon and get a slight brownish tinge from the light hitting the pixel grid if you try, but the effect is none worse then the N760.

BLACK GRID: There isn't one on either of these devices, you must be thinking of the IIIc or Prism.

DIM SCREEN: Wrong devices again. I'll try to find an online link for a photo I have from a German website. It's a side by side comparison with the M505, M515, N760, and the M130 all in one photo. The M505 is on its only setting, the M515 is on high, the N760 is on high, and the M130 is on half brightness.

The M505 is dimmest, but both the M515 and M130 are brighter than the N760.

When I went shopping for my most recent upgrade, I found the T615 and M515 to be about the same brightness, so I'm trying to figure out what your comparison was based on. Is there another device you were thinking of that makes the M515 and M130 seem dim? The only one I can think of is the iPaq, which makes everything else seem dimmer, and it can't run Palm OS.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 12:12:02 PM #
ha ha
You can try tom make your own "scientific comparisons" (whatever) but I went to my local CompUsa and compared the palm m515, m130 and a N760 myself, after all the comments I read on how good the m515 is compared to the m505..
Man, that screen sucks, pixellated, dim and brownish-white (even at max brightness) and the grid is STILL there, not as prominent as before but it IS there..
the m130 is so small that I would better use my Sanyo cellphone. The N760 is too big I think but the screen is much better than the other ones.

RE: First the T415, next the T615
Altema @ 4/5/2002 1:41:16 AM #
Perhaps your local compusa has a defective unit? You should try these devices in the real world. Yes, the pixels will be more noticable on the M515, but that is due to both the larger pixels, and the M515 not having the foggy appearance of the 760. I was shoping for a GPS system tonight, and I did notice that the 760 looked brighter in BestBuy than it did in CompUSA. Either there is a variation in the handhelds, or it is a result of different lighting.

One thing that did not change from earlier tests was the lack of color saturation on the Sony. My son looked like a blurry ghost clutching a rusty pipe. Fortunately, he has a healthy skin tone in real life, and was holding a bright red playground pole. But you could not tell unless you looked at the photo on the M515, which has a color palette as accurate as my $3000 laptop. Anyways, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I had the money to buy either, and liked Sony screen a little better despite the fogginesss and lack of color, but the choice was won primarily by battery life, along with a few other details. Six or seven hours versus twelve? No contest.

I think it indicates an improved T415

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:23:12 AM #
The T415 is being discontinued because it was an inferior product that sold horribly. I would imagine Sony will simply improve the T415 screen and release an new model with said screen.

That said, I wonder if the pro-Sony forces here at PIC will be as merciless toward Sony ("The T425 is what the T415 SHOULD have been all along...they ripped us off and need to give us free upgrades, yada, yada yada...") as they have been toward Palm about the m515.

Either way, I think this merely indicates mighty Sony dropped the ball on this one. And the silence of the Sony-istas speaks volumes...

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:44:49 AM #
I doubt there will be complaint. Sony never market this as their high end/flagship model. It came out at $300 not $450 and Sony shelved it after 4 months not 6 months. I do not think there is a big market for this unit.

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:15:05 AM #
T425 is already available in Europe. It's our version of T415, from my observation, it's got the same screen as T415... ;-)

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:05:33 PM #
Perhaps there's a T515 waiting in the wings. The point is not the model name, it's that Sony may have a similar model coming that fixes the screen issue.

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
mikemusick @ 4/3/2002 12:44:15 PM #
"Furthermore, a lot more accessories will come in the form of MS modules."

Baloney. We've been hearing about MS module expansion for well over a year, and... well... where's the beef? Other than the silly camera there just isn't anything to be had.

Try this - call SonyStyle or Sony customer service and ask about either the Bluetooth module or the GPS. Find out for yourself how snotty their reps get when you point out availability in non-U.S. markets.

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:15:10 PM #
"We've been hearing about MS module expansion for well over a year, and... well... where's the beef? Other than the silly camera there just isn't anything to be had."

Unlike the SD slot which has so many peripherals available for it, right?

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
escobar @ 4/3/2002 6:52:47 PM #
Well, we can at least buy a Bluetooth sd-card!

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 7:10:01 PM #
Handhelds should have both CF and SD/MMC. This has become and emerging trend in PPC (no, I don't represent the Dark Side here) recently, but only after the PalmOS powered Handera 330 led the way.

Plenty of CF peripherals, and I can still have my extra memory while using them.

RE: I think it indicates an improved T415
Timothy @ 4/3/2002 8:38:53 PM #
I think this poster has it right. I don't see Sony abandoning this market segment at this point. A new model with 16 meg, better hi-res mono screen and maybe even a 66MZ processor could sell at the $300 price range that Sony envisioned, maybe it could be listed at $280 like the M130. That leaves room for a color version of the S360 that could sell at $250 against the M130. Sony would have a PDA for everyone from less than $200 to over $500.

The T 415 was a great device

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:22:07 AM #
The T415 is the best of the b/w devices. The only problem is that it has to stand in the shadow of so many great Sony color devices.

I don't know why anyone would buy a Visor or Palm when one compares prices. I hope people will wake up and see this great device.

RE: The T 415 was a great device
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:33:17 AM #
LOL :)

RE: The T 415 was a great device
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 11:44:44 AM #
>> The T415 is the best of the b/w devices. The only problem is that it has to stand in the shadow of so many great Sony color devices.

I don't know why anyone would buy a Visor or Palm when one compares prices. I hope people will wake up and see this great device. <<

Still more evidence that smoking crack is dangerous...

RE: The T 415 was a great device
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:04:07 PM #
Wow. Where's our foreign "reality distortion field" friend when we need him? This person is textbook for that term.

RE: The T 415 was a great device
spartacvs @ 4/3/2002 1:43:47 PM #
Honestly, I think the T415 was a great device...with a poor screen. That make it only a average unit. As I said, it's best feature was to fill a gap for a specific price range.
I really think that a improved version of this unit can be very successfull. Because if you want a powerfull b/w device, the only one that come to my mind is the Palm M500, wich is much more expensive (too expensive compared to the competition indeed).

같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같
Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
Dr. Strangelove
RE: The T 415 was a great device
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:09:43 PM #
> Honestly, I think the T415 was a great device...with a poor screen.

and the Palm Vx was w great device...with a lower res screen and no expansion slot; and on and on and on.

> Because if you want a powerfull b/w device, the only
> one that come to my mind is the Palm M500

HandEra 330

RE: The T 415 was a great device
spartacvs @ 4/3/2002 3:41:15 PM #
>and the Palm Vx was w great device...with a lower res screen and no expansion slot; and on and on and on.

Well, I didn't said the T415 was the worst. Furthermore, the Vx is a old unit with a old screen. The T415 is a new model with a old screen...

>> Because if you want a powerfull b/w device, the only
>> one that come to my mind is the Palm M500

>HandEra 330
Still much more expensive. So, in the 300-400$cdn range, the T415 was about the only one. I really think that a improved release of the T415 can be successfull.

같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같
Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
Dr. Strangelove

RE: The T 415 was a great device
Geek_House @ 4/3/2002 4:51:28 PM #
I love my T415, I really have no problems reading it. I am glad I bought mine and now I will have to be extra carefull not to break it since a replacment is out. Maybe my eyesight is better then normal, but I wear contacts and have 20/200 uncorrected vision so I doupt it.

With all honesty I haven't seen a PDA in the price range I would trade my T415 for. Only way I'll give up my T415 is if you pry it from my cold dead hand.

Oh, for you declaring everyone who likes the T415 is smoking crack.... can't afford crack, school costs to much!

Brian
www.geek-house.org

RE: The T 415 was a great device
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 5:06:35 PM #
> So, in the 300-400$cdn range, the T415 was about the only one.

I think you are basing your pricing of the T415 on the rock bottom pricing it received after Sony end-of-lifed it.

RE: The T 415 was a great device
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 6:13:23 AM #
I've got a T 415 (plus a 32M memory stick) at PalmSource 2002 for $239. I'm a developper, was curious about hires and expansions, and did not want to expend more than $250.

It also has some good features for day-to-day use: the improved Ir (if you got Sony appliances - and I do), the jog wheel, better sound, the vibrating alarm.

The screen readability is at most times disaponting, but can look very good at some light conditions (for example, when I am at my desk at work).

Overall, I belive it has as many good features as any other current offering, and not as many problems as a lot of them.

New line?

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:43:37 AM #
I'm hoping, and it seems reasonable to imaging, that the T range will be revamped to meet the new specifications set by the NR. So we should soon be seeing something like the T but with:

The NR-style virtual graffiti and 320x480 screen.
16Mb as standard.
Dragonball 66Mhz in the top range model Ts.
They'll fix those crap buttons!

-- The Squire.

RE: New line?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:06:20 PM #
Just wait three weeks after the clamshell NR Series is released and you will probably have your wish

great remote

lithe67 @ 4/3/2002 11:54:58 AM #
If you could pick one up for about a hundred bucks it would make a great home theatre system remote control. Just keep it charging next to your sofa.

Visor Platinum / Visorphone
RE: great remote
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:00:30 PM #
How's this for irony:

When the T415 hit the shelves, many of us criticized its horrible screen, which was clearly the worst on the market, hi-res or no hi-res. Sony apologists flamed us for it. We said this thing was a "glorified remote control." Sony apologists flamed us for it.

Now, the T415 appears to be going away, and one conclusion is that it might get cheap enough to be a good buy as a remote control. People, that's all this thing was good for to begin with!

RE: great remote
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:35:24 PM #
There are already customizable remote controls for around $100 with better screens than the T415.

Who cares about a replacment for the 415!

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 12:50:47 PM #
Give me a replacement for my 760c. 16mb memory, metal casing, Remote Control app, sound util app and better speaker, 66mhz processor, better flip cover, better rocker switch (not like the 615c though) and fix the stylus falling out design. Oh, and a virtual graffiti would be nice. Sounds a lot like the NR70 series but many don't need all that.

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:01:42 PM #
you just freakin described the nr70!!!!!!!

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:07:19 PM #
With the exception of the remote control app, you're also talking about a Pocket PC. Not to troll or anything, but it sounds like Palm aficionados are begin to ask for PPC-esque functionality. And guess what? You'll get comparable battery life.

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:13:11 PM #
Don't need all WHAT? The ONLY thing you didn't mention in the above that the NR series does have is the keyboard!

And, Hell, all that crammed into an N760 case would probably STILL cost $500 or so, the same as an NR series!

Does the keyboard bug you THAT much?

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:29:00 PM #
> Does the keyboard bug you THAT much?

I wasn't the original poster, but yes! Plus the fact that you must flip-twist-fold the keyboard just so you can have a cover for the screen. What a pain in the rear. The NR-series isn't even a PDA anyhow.

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 3:23:23 PM #
"Not to troll or anything, but it sounds like Palm aficionados are begin to ask for PPC-esque functionality. "

Right. But with a nice elegant, slim OS that is not so tedious to use. I love the hardware features of PPCs, but having used one, I went back to my Palm device within a month. Everything took longer to do on the PPC and there were too many apps that just weren't worth giving up (DateBk4 for one).

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 3:26:23 PM #
Amen!! PPC entusiasts love to talk about their hardware. But most Palm users love the OS too much to ever want to switch. Not to mention the HUGE number of available applications for the Palm, which still cannot even begin to be matched by PPC's.

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:13:03 PM #
ehrrr.....But NR is already roughly size of iPAQ.....and bigger and Genio (ok it's a flop).

That's not counting soon to be release model like the ever so hyped LOOX.

And NR doesn't even have CF+SD or big speaker + recornding mic. Those things take up space.


RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:19:34 PM #
not to forget that PocketPC is stuck with 320x240 resolution, while sony has already passed that twice.

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 6:34:42 PM #
hmm, true the NR has very nice screen, but than again in PPC there is Samsung's Nexio, sub-pixel software or virtual windows.

RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 7:22:30 PM #
----
"I wasn't the original poster, but yes! Plus the fact that you must flip-twist-fold the keyboard just so you can have a cover for the screen. What a pain in the rear. The NR-series isn't even a PDA anyhow."
----

But why does it bother you all so much? I can't understand the 'you must twist-flip' argument, either. I mean, I can pretty much imagine the twist-flip process taking about 1 second for someone with even rudimentary coordination. Sure, it's twice as long a time as the 'wrist-flip' maneuver for the included CLIE screen covers, but at least this is more permanent (it ain't gonna flop open on ya when you don't want it to).

If you don't wanna twist flip, then don't. Leave it in the pad form and grab a simple pouch style case. Remember that this gives you the choice of using it clamshell style or pad style.

I guess the thing that confuses me was the following quote in the original message:

----
"Sounds a lot like the NR70 series but many don't need all that."
----

The keyboard was the ONLY thing the poster did NOT mention in the post. I hardly think of that one feature qualifying as "all that", especially when he/she demanded all those other features.

And finally, what makes you all believe that Sony WON'T release the previously described device? At the rate they're going, that's almost a definite progression on the timeline. It would be silly for their ONLY Virtual Graffiti device to be the NR. Let us gadgetfiends enjoy out 'power device' for now! I don't doubt that something will come along to please you all in the future.



RE: Who cares about a replacment for the 415!
hotpaw4 @ 4/4/2002 2:29:26 AM #
Who cares? Developers! The more market segments which are covered with a suitable handheld product, the larger the total market for PalmOS software. Many more under $200 units are sold than are over $300 units. Color hi-res handhelds are still kind-of pricey for some market segments (e.g. many students).

Hah!

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:10:43 PM #
This PDA might have been deemed as a horrible PDA, but please!!! Look at my Palm M500!!! IT is a piece of junk! sitting right next to me, the backlight is horrible when theres some light!
Ahh!
Palm M500's all suck, no matter what. This sony was probably better than the god damn M500. And I don't have a freakin' SD slot! why did I buy it? well...I. Don't Know.

RE: Hah!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 2:13:22 PM #
At least the m500 is readable without the backlight. And in VERY dim light, the m500 backlight is functional. The T415 is unreadable with or without backlight, no matter WHAT the ambient lighting conditions are. And instead of a "freakin'" SD slot, you get a freakin' MS slot.

Either way, you're yet ANOTHER example of how smoking crack is dangerous. So please, get some rehab...

RE: Hah!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:23:07 PM #
>Either way, you're yet ANOTHER example of how smoking crack is dangerous. So please, get some rehab...

Man, this is such a comment. Damn, I never saw a forum like this one where peoples keep insulting each others for a yes or a no. If you have no arguments to counter his opinion, just shut up please.

RE: Hah!
Altema @ 4/3/2002 4:33:05 PM #
All monochrome devices are nearly impossible to read in "not quite dark" conditions regardless of the backlight. I have owned the Palm IIIe, IIIx, IIIc, M105, M500, multiple M505's, and the M515. I have used the Palm V, VIIx, Sony T415, T615, and N760. All the mono screens had the same problem, which became an issue for me on the job when I would attempt to use my Palm in a communications closet or tunnel. That's the primary reason I went to color. In my office it was no problem, but in a room with one lightbulb in the corner? Forget it! I would turn out the light and use the Palm's backlight.

I think the problem that most people notice about the T415 is that the screen is darker than any other monochrome device out there. The M105 was easier to read than the T415, despite the M105 having a smaller plastic screen. I was setting up a friends T415, and we had to copy the sample video clip to my Palm to see what it was...

RE: Hah!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 5:12:21 PM #
> All monochrome devices are nearly impossible to read in "not quite
> dark" conditions regardless of the backlight. I have owned the [...]

The HandEra 330 would be the exception to that.. Its screen is readable in any lighting condition I have seen it in. There is something about the backlight that seems to just blend properly with most any lighting condition.

RE: Hah!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 6:16:28 PM #
And actually, the original Palm Pilots as well. It was with the Palm III that we got the reverse backlighting that EVERYONE hates so much, yet Palm (and Handspring) continue to use it. Sony at least released some models that had decent backlighting, although apparently the 415 was not one of them.

RE: Hah!
ImpReza @ 4/3/2002 7:31:30 PM #
the Sony Clie S360 uses a wonderful "non-reversed" backlight which is very readable in any light.

RE: Hah!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 10:10:18 PM #
>> If you have no arguments to counter his opinion, just shut up please. <<

Perhaps you should read the BEGINNING of that reply before commenting. There was an argument to counter the original poster plainly stated.

If you want to know who should be shutting up, you should look in a mirror...

RE: Hah!
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 4:28:46 AM #
palm III does not have reverse backlight. palm IIIxe might have it. not sure about IIIx.

True Black and White would be nice

LanMan @ 4/3/2002 2:16:17 PM #
I would buy a true B&W device ala T415 if priced around $200. I don't believe that mono devices are dead yet. However, I would like to see a T4xx come out with true black on white as the T415 origianally claimed to be. Also it would need 16MB RAM.

<><
RE: True Black and White would be nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 3:15:58 PM #
well, if you want to do that, then download SilverScreen with NO color support, and play only monochrome games in your color device! you'll get true black on white!

RE: True Black and White would be nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 5:02:03 PM #
you can only get true black & white with a color PDA, otherwise you get green & black.
me

RE: True Black and White would be nice
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 8:10:01 AM #
You would think so, but, alas that is not quite true.

You never get proper white on m505 anyway. Black and white is much a matter of perception. Look at some TV and you will find out. When the set is the see grey, but watch some Sci-Fi movie and you can see the darkness out outer-space! The screen doesn't magically become darker, it's all perception. If you look close at m505 you can make out the distinct Red Green and Blue elements that make up a pixcel lying side by side. This is much less anoying on hires Sonys but it is there. All current color pixel are made of side-by-side RGB element 1/3 of the size :-)

It would be very interest to see how IBM would compose
black and white OLED displays though ...

RE: True Black and White would be nice
cykalan @ 4/5/2002 4:30:31 AM #
who said white backlight is not possible? notice some of the models nokia 88xx and 89xx series.

though, the resolution on the phones are much lower, but i don't think sony would have a hard time to solve that.

T-415 bye-bye

mikecane @ 4/3/2002 4:20:26 PM #
That says it all. It won't be missed.

T415 completly removed from product list on sonystyle

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 4:25:31 PM #
It seems that Sony went further in completly removing T415 from the product list... It doesn't appear as "sold out" as it was earlier today... I hope something else is coming to replace it soon !

David

The Free Market has spoken!

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 5:20:41 PM #
And in the end, this is all that matters, and all of your pontifications mean nothing.

White backlight always on

big_raji @ 4/3/2002 7:11:25 PM #
I think the T415 could have worked if it had an always-on white backlight, instead of the green backlight.

Sure, some people would have bitched about battery life, but most people don't care... My battery on my n610 rarely goes below 90%, since I pop it on the cradle every night.

---
If you sing in french while hopping on one foot, the evil birds won't come out of your bathroom mirror.

RE: White backlight always on
LanMan @ 4/4/2002 10:53:51 AM #
I think you might be on to something. The T415 with a white backlight might make a world of difference. I would buy a T415 with higher contrast and 16MB in an instant. However, I would still like to see it around the $200 price point, and $250 would be the most I would spend on ANY mono device.

<><

T400 (Japanese version of T415) is still exist

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 8:18:45 PM #
Model PEG-T400 ( Japanese OS version of T415 Device ) is still exist at Sony.co.jp and jp.SonyStyle.com. What dose it mean ?

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-T400/
http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/peg/Store/Clie/index.html
(This sites are written by japanese)

RE: T400 (Japanese version of T415) is still exist
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 6:27:47 AM #
It is still available on the online Canadian sonystyle store.

SONY'S GOT YOUR SOUL

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 8:40:02 PM #
I can't help but noticed that recently any news with Sony in it seems to provoke the most reaction from readers. Not too bad for a company that has only 6% of the PalmOS market!

Yes, Sony as a brandname is very powerful. It is the most recognizable brandname in Asia and likely the world and whether you love or hate their Clies, one thing is for sure, they got you.

Sony executives - if you are following this forum you don't have to spend gazillions on focus groups and save a pretty dime in R&D.

We have spoken.

RE: SONY'S GOT YOUR SOUL
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:14:18 PM #
> Sony executives - if you are following this forum you
> don't have to spend gazillions on focus groups and save
> a pretty dime in R&D.

Unfortunately the posters on this site are a very poor representation statistically of the PDA market.

I have to wonder how much longer Sony will stay in the PDA market. Typically companies like Sony want to be #1 or #2 in a market area. Despite serious expenditures in R&D and development costs and possibly taking a loss on certain devices, they still lag significantly behind Palm, Handspring and probably Compaq at least.

RE: SONY'S GOT YOUR SOUL
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 9:21:29 PM #
I think Palm owners are not into the pain thing, let's say, why would a m515 owner (your everyday Palm~Corolla) come to this specialized forum?? just to be reminded that for the same price they paid for their pdas they could have gotten a better one? Makes no sense to me, besides this site is filled with Clie owners/trolls; which I can understand becouse only the innovatives Clies can ignite that passion as we can see in the Apple world.

'innovatives'
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/3/2002 11:52:00 PM #
> ...becouse only the innovatives Clies can ignite that
> passion as we can see in the Apple world.

You mean the 'passion' that the rest of the world sees as some combination of blind, fanatic loyalty and the same sort of facination with bright-shiny-objects that most people associate with magpies or racoons? That makes people pay WAY to much for way too little, because it's 'pretty'?

Hey! I agree with you!

RE: SONY'S GOT YOUR SOUL
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 12:15:41 AM #
"You mean the 'passion' that the rest of the world sees as some combination of blind, fanatic loyalty and the same sort of facination with bright-shiny-objects that most people associate with magpies or racoons? That makes people pay WAY to much for way too little, because it's 'pretty'?
Hey! I agree with you!"

You haven't seen the light at the end of the tunnel...
;) keep on walking, son.
Actually you pay the same, "That makes people pay WAY to little for way too much" as you said. And yes, it's pretty.
Just count how many posts Sony-related topics generate in PIC; that's becouse technically superior/innovative products produce brand loyalty.
Have you ever seen a PALM troll (like a Sony Troll)??
You probably won't see one becouse It would be ridiculous and hilarious.

RE: SONY'S GOT YOUR SOUL
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 12:51:10 PM #
>> Just count how many posts Sony-related topics generate in PIC; that's becouse technically superior/innovative products produce brand loyalty. <<

I think you've made a faulty assumption that the volume of posts implies a high volume of people posting. It's very likely that it's only a handful of "Sony trolls," as you call them, who post CONSTANTLY in efforts to support Sony and slam Palm. Since PIC still allows anonymous posting, that's a definite possibility.

While I agree with you that Sony does produce handhelds with TECHNICAL superiority (which is only ONE part of the "buying equation"), I would suggest that the reason you don't see Palm trolls is because Palm supporters simply have better things to do with their time.

It is a sad fact....yet Sony really rules....
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 1:01:46 PM #
If Sony weren't a Palm licensee, when do you think will we see high resolution, virtual graffiti area (really responsive) and MP3 from Palm?

Fact is no Palm (company) device, even today, has those features. Need I say more?

If not, go to a store and compare with M515 when NR 70 comes out. Enough said.

For me, Features is a big part of the equation.
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 1:08:22 PM #
Price I guess is another. Form Factor? I think they are close enough and two choices from Sony (NR70 and T615c) should serve people's taste for thickness and features.

Palm M515 is nice looking and quite professional, and yet feature and support (I refer to connectivity with different devices, like Sony that advertise their inter-relation with DVcamera, PC and digital camera)-wise sony still comes out ahead.

An NSX (Palm) and a BMW M5(sony),if you are into cars.

RE: SONY'S GOT YOUR SOUL
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/4/2002 7:35:27 PM #
"While I agree with you that Sony does produce handhelds with TECHNICAL superiority (which is only ONE part of the "buying equation"), I would suggest that the reason you don't see Palm trolls is because Palm supporters simply have better things to do with their time."

Disagree, I think we don't see Palm trolls here because:

A. People who buy a Palm PDA are mostly average users that bought one becouse their friend has one or becouse they just need a PDA w/datebook-calendar and btw you can find Palm pdas for sale virtually everywhere.
Most of these Joes and Janes don't even know Palm forums exist. I know some of them that don't even know they could hotsync (and don't care)!!

B. C'mon there is simply nothing to bragg about Palm!

On the other hand people who love these hi-tech gadgets, usually buy a Handera or a Sony, and of course they are computer-savvy and eventhough Sony only has a low % of the market, Sony owners probably make around +50% of PIC's readers/posters.

RE: SONY'S GOT YOUR SOUL
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/5/2002 2:41:10 AM #
LOL. Palmites are simply GREEN with JEALOUSY and anything Sony does/doesn't do is simply fodder for their inferiority complex.

Sony's beat Handspring and Sony on size/innovation. Handera's got some of the spark that Palm gave up under Yankowski, but they've still got the huge form factor.

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