Comments on: February Was Clié's Best Month Yet

According to NPD Intellect, Sony's U.S. retail sales during February took a big jump, increasing to its highest percentage of sales yet.

Palm Inc. remained in first place, with 45.7% of sales. Handspring was second with 18.9% of retail sales and Sony is running a close third with 16%. That means the Palm OS platform made up over 80% of handheld retail sales that month.

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Not bad

sophmeat @ 4/12/2002 11:06:53 AM #
Considering that the Clies dont have the name brand power behind it that Palms have, this is not bad at all. Heck, they almost outsell the Pocket PC altogeter. I wonder how the new clie, and the Zaurus will do....

Look its innovative! Cant be something by Palm, now can it?
RE: Not bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 11:11:14 AM #
Sony doesn't have name brand recognition. What are you smoking?
RE: Not bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 11:24:40 AM #
crack crack crack

RE: Not bad
big_raji @ 4/12/2002 11:27:31 AM #
I don't think the name "Clie" has to be known. It's all Sony.

Besides, Sony is totally on crack when they name all their products lately. Clie. Vaio. Aibo. WTF?


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What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Not bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 11:30:58 AM #
Where can I get more info on a Sony WTF? I am intrigued.
RE: Not bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 12:03:09 PM #
Don't you think that's good naming? Clie, Vaio and Aibo.You remember them all and when you hear them, you immediately know what they are.

With Palm... what palm? the one with fingers? the tree? oh... the PDA maker.

RE: Not bad
big_raji @ 4/12/2002 12:49:49 PM #
Ummm, no.

*I* remember them, because *I* am a geek.

Ask anyone on the street what a Vaio is... they'll probably think it's a disease, and run away.

Ask anyone on the street what an Aibo is... they'll think it's a new exercise program. Hi-yah!

Ask anyone on the street what a Clie is... and say it with that french-sounding "ay" at the end. You'll probably get laughed at.

Ask anyone on the street what a Palm is... they'll know.

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What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Not bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 1:50:06 PM #
Yea, the will point to their hand an laugh at you, since they think you should know what a Palm is. Most people who have heard of HS or Palm, has heard of CLIE's. And, when I told people I got a new Palm, they asked how much the surgery cost. WTF?! When I told them I got a new CLIE, they knew what I was talking about.
RE: Not bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 2:56:56 PM #
HA HA HA ... you gus are funny !! ^^
RE: Not bad
big_raji @ 4/12/2002 3:31:13 PM #
> And, when I told people I got a new Palm, they asked
> how much the surgery cost. WTF?! When I told them I
> got a new CLIE, they knew what I was talking about.

That's like saying your friends have no idea what RAM is, but they know the difference between SIMMs and DIMMs.

You need new friends.



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What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Not bad
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 7:17:37 PM #
oh man, i dont rememeber typing the last line... lol, i must be really tired now... didnt mean to start a flame war...
RE: Not bad
big_raji @ 4/12/2002 7:54:15 PM #
Flame war? This? I thought this was rather fun.

To think this was a flame war... You must be new to this. :)

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What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Not bad
sophmeat @ 4/13/2002 2:04:40 AM #
is it that obvious ^_^()

Look its innovative! Cant be something by Palm, now can it?
Add-ons
Vulcan @ 4/13/2002 9:48:55 AM #
As I look at the new Clies, I stare at my old Visor Deluxe and say "Wow!"

Of course, if I upgraded, I'd also lose my modem, my keyboard, and my memory expansion modules.

For my purposes (journalist and consultant), the VDx does just fine, and I've got the bugs worked out. I don't have the cash to upgrade with every whim of Sony. Sony changes form factor and compatibility too often for there to be the accessory options I have for the Visor.

I am glad to see that manufacturers are recognizing the different needs of people within the marketplace. Each is staking a different claim: Sony - performance, Handspring - convegence, Palm - ??? (maybe Palm stakes out the low-end market).

You people who snipe at each other over handheld superiority need to move out of your mothers' basements.

(btw -- "Vulcan" refers to the Roman god of the forge, not the green-blooded science officer. Save your flames.)

RE: Not bad
sophmeat @ 4/13/2002 2:19:26 PM #
Thanks to my 3 year replacement plan... i get new clies every time mine get broken. Heh, now if only my slipper case didnt protect it so damn well...

---------------------------------
Oh wow! Guys check this out! The new Clie has more than 1000 dpi!! Guys? Hey come back here! *runs after them holding a spec sheet* I didnt even show you the Keyboard!!!!!

The best is yet to come?

easypeasy @ 4/12/2002 11:27:42 AM #
Pocket PCs have X-Scale on the horizon, most user are trying to obtain more battery life from PPCs and those who know about this shortcoming may way to wait for the next generation of PPCs.

Palm on the other hand dont stress performance as much. Although OS5 is imminent, a lot of user a satified with the current performance levels. Those that need multimedia have already moved to PPC or aways the enhancements in OS5.

If Febuary was a good month, the next few months will be even more eventful with the inclusion of the NR series.

RE: The best is yet to come?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 3:55:18 PM #
We'll see if Palm can do better in battery department after they introduce audio and bigger screen. The m515 doesn't show a good trend, with no audio and cutting of grafitti backlight, the life is reduced significantly compare to Vx. While Clie new generation with bigger screen can last about 10 hrs, that is far from days/week people likes to talk about.

Percentage of how much?

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 11:48:57 AM #
Do you know the actual number of handhelds sold as opposed to just the percentage?
RE: Percentage of how much?
Ed @ 4/12/2002 11:58:02 AM #
Normally NPD Intellect makes its money by selling the results of its market surveys. This is way outside of PIC's budget. Sometimes they get released for free and those are the ones that appear on the site. This time, I was able to pull some stings and get these results without having to pay for them but that limits the access I have. Sorry, this is all I was able to get.

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News Editor
RE: Percentage of how much?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 11:47:11 PM #
I had the same question.

16% for Sony might sound nice, however, if the total retail sales volume is much lower than the average monthly sales, the 16% for Sony might not be as much as it seems. Especially since it is February with less sales days...

Granted, market share is market share, but market share of one month in my opinion is rather useless. More interesting is a 3-month period (or more), combined with actual volumes to get a better overall picture.

If Palm's sales were weaker (say half) than usual due to imminent release of M515 and M130 then the 16% market share could easily equate to 'around only' 8% in a normal month.

RE: Percentage of how much?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 1:57:38 AM #
Yr right. But at 8% they'd still best Compaq's Ipaq which last year reportedly had 7% of sale. I'm not here to slam PPC because of some 'brand loyalty issue' - as is so often the case on PIC. Rather, i know that once you get past the pretty facade of this joke of a PDA OS (PocketPC), yr left with bad design. Just look at the way they've handled closing of applications - like, 6 (or is it 7?) clicks to close an app!!!??? Worse then a desktop OS yet, this is supposed to be a PDA!!!! When i first studied the PPC SDK i thought this was an awful joke (I still can't believe how little flak they've gotten over the absurditity). Microsoft attempted to fix this in PPC 2002 by 'forcing' an exit button on apps. If the app supports it, it closes. If not it minimizes - forcing you to do the old: start/system/memory/running programs/(program title)/stop. this is a bad hack of there own OS!!! This is unbelievable for a PDA based UI!!! I have mentioned this on PIC before but to my surprise nobody chimed in with there comments on this unbeievable stupidity.
RE: Percentage of how much?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 1:52:31 PM #
Probably because there's a free utility that closes all apps with one click.
RE: Percentage of how much?
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 2:39:28 PM #
The win CE suppose to be able to put all apps on the background to sleep intelligently. It will start to close them one by one once memory is running low. What's the big deal? Why do you care if something is sleep on the background or not. Unless of course you plan to open 50 windows simultaneously.

shall we talk about multi tasking and thread priority in Palm?

Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 11:38:22 AM #
So many people in the biz have assumed that PPC would do the same for microsoft as Windows did to Mac and IE did to Netscape. Well, CE 1.0 came out in '96 and it took until last yr before they managed to 'strike a chord' with PocketPC. Since then, everyone has expected a landslide in favor of microsoft. But this isn't the browser wars: It was free to switch to IE from netscape and both ran the same 'software'(webpages). Not so here: PPC costs a lot and Palm still has a massive lead in available software.

If PPC was going to overtake Palm, the last year or so was the time to do it because Palm was caught off-guard by PPC and basically spent the last yr regrouping and rebuilding its OS to scale in terms of processor speed, graphics, sound and security needs. Now Palm OS and licencees are ready to come out swinging with devices that are potentially faster, with better graphics AND able to leverage most of the vast, existing Palm OS library of software.

Redmond should be worried.....

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 12:00:04 PM #
Yup. They've been hovering at around 20% for a while now, and Sony has overtaken Compaq. Supporters in the industry/media are in denial at the moment. When OS 5 devices hit they are in trouble. Microsoft knows the reality of the numbers - they've canned three heads of their 'mobile initiative' now....
RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
peter167 @ 4/12/2002 1:15:45 PM #
Just look at the Thera PPC smartphone. A absurd price @ $999 with contract? Oh, my goodness maybe I am too poor instead!!!

The most absurd thing is that the Thera brand is never heard of before 2001. Wondering the HP ones will cost over a $1000 even with a contract.

I would still prefer a phone(bluetooth) and a Palm OS 5 PDA (bluetooth) instead. It is much cheaper, and yet I get more battery life out of the two. But then, again, I lost some space. But who knows...

******************
Lie is the future.

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 1:24:45 PM #
Well. Palm Computing screws up for the last 2 years.
And it coincidence with the born of iPaq.
So PPC does had its best opportunity.

But Sony came to rescue. And now Palm seems to
back to a normal company. :-(

It is still a long fight. But Palm with Sony's help
has a good chance to succeed.

Hard to believe some company forcasted a few years back
that in 2005 PPC will dominate. I don't know
how they get the number.

If Palm can find one more helper like Sony, then Palm
will have a much better chance to succeed.

ted

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 2:05:05 PM #
Actually, since these are retail numbers ONLY, we forget the concentration Microsoft has in the enterprise segment. Or even online for that matter. I'd wager that most people who WANT a PPC do the research online and find cheaper prices ONLINE.
RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
Ed @ 4/12/2002 2:12:38 PM #
> we forget the concentration Microsoft has in the enterprise segment.

Turns out that Microsoft's lead in the enterprise is mostly just wishful thinking. It might even qualify as an urban legend.

Recently, IDC questioned more than 1,100 IT managers from all sizes of businesses and found that Palm handhelds outstrip all others overwhelmingly, with 60% of the companies currently purchasing Palm branded handhelds. Handspring and Compaq were in a tie for number two with less than 30%. The Palm OS platform is likewise supported by more than 60% of the companies -- which is nearly double that of any other handheld operating system.

You can read more about it here:
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2628

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News Editor

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
Palm_Otaku @ 4/12/2002 2:28:18 PM #
Ed, did you happen to get the percentage values for Compaq and H-P?

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 3:41:05 PM #
In the meantime all this incredible 80-90% number seems to ignore that HTC alone is cranking up 1.5 million ipaq and expected to control half of annual handheld production in Taiwan by year end.

I guess all those handheld just vanished into the blackhole.

and the enterprise and online market are just myth.

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 4:19:30 PM #
But 100 percent of all handhelds built in timbucktoo are Palm. Woohoo.
RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 5:42:41 PM #
Right, and who care about what manufacturer in Taiwan does. Is not like they are the biggest manufacturer of computer related product in the world or anything.
RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
peter167 @ 4/13/2002 7:35:46 AM #
Why do always people think that the online sales and enterprise sales for PPC are always better than those for Palm?

Is it because no one buy it at retail, some other folks must buy it online (for???) or for their enterprise(???). I agree, it is wishful thinking.

Of course, Compaq may bundle these expensive handhelds along with their workstations/servers for free. But who knows...

******************
Lie is the future.

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 1:23:29 PM #
It has to do with critical mass, specially on the enterprise sector. With critical mass come developer and money which is crucial for the long term survival of the OS.

It's all about networking and data exchange these days, not just PIM. That's why Palm is deperate to capture the enterprise sector. (and always refuse to talk about their penetration rate)

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to c
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 3:08:43 PM #
This article
www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2628
shows that Palm has already captured the enterprise sector. This is backed up by unbiased companies (IDC, Jupiter Research, Yankee Group) who did the surveys. This is better than Palm talking about its penetration rate because I know IDC etc. isn't fudging the numbers.

That's much more believable than Microsoft's campaign of lies. Can you show me a press release or advertisement where Microsoft says it controls handheld sales in the enterprise? I'll bet you can't. It's is just something you "know", right? That's because this lie is said over and over again by Microsoft employees who spread propaganda in discussion groups like this one.

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 3:58:48 PM #
*yawn*


try UPS, Fedex, US Army. They all plan and already dole up money to purchase PPC.

http://www.aberdeen.com/eti/
currentissue/aug1/mobile_finding.htm

let's face it, Palm OS can't even multi task, that alone is enough for any sane enterprise to stay away beyond PIM function. Than there is security. (OS 5.0 will cure this apparently)

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 4:10:59 PM #
some old news, but say something about PPC rough sale distribution.

http://www.vnunet.com/News/1105833

RE: Industry excited about PocketPC, public doesnt seem to care
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/14/2002 11:17:10 PM #
Palms will always be the poor man's PDA. I suspect they'll make disposable ones like the toss away cell phones. Palm has become the disposable razor of the PDA world.

Hard to believe

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 11:17:13 AM #
It is no suprising to me that sales of the Palm Os devices did so well in February. What is surprising is that Palm and Handspring outsales Song Clies! I can see that many people are still loyal to Palm, which may be the reason. But Handspring? Come on. I predict the company will go under by summer, unless they come out with new models that can compete with Sony's clies. What is Treo? There are at least 300+ people in my company that own Palm OS devices, and I did not know one single person that has a Treo.
RE: Hard to believe
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 12:26:59 PM #
Not so true. If you look at the generic user market (not the business market), a lot of people have Handspring Visors. In fact, I know very few people with Palm-branded handhelds, one person with a Sony, and about 7 people with Visors (and 1 with an Edge). The Handspring line is the only one left that offers a dirt-cheap, full-size screened, tried-and-true, expandable handheld. Plus, you can buy old Visors left in stock for practically nothing.
RE: Hard to believe
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 12:43:24 PM #
I am talking about Palm OS devices purchased SINCE Februray 2002, not overall. I do own a Visor Deluxe myself, which I purchased about 2 years ago. At THAT time it was probably the best Palm OS device on the market. But that was WAY before the Sony Clie N or the T series. I believe most of the people you know that own Visors have had them for a long time. I don't know of ANYONE who would NOW go out and buy a Visor Edge, Prism, Treo or whatever at retail price.
RE: Hard to believe
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/12/2002 1:19:14 PM #
Sales take time.

I think Clie already takes over Handspring's place
in Asia. In HongKong, Clie dominates the market.

Sony should be in 2nd place soon, maybe in this summer.

Sony has a great name brand. And they have very innovative Palm handhelds.

ted

RE: Hard to believe
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 1:44:32 AM #
Sony has surpassed handspring in Asia because it is Sony's home base. Also, Asians (Japanese and Hong Kongers) tend to to change their gadgets like how they change their shirts. This is why Sony has a new palm OS device every 2 months. I don't think Sony will be the number 2 Palm maker anytime soon...not with the Treo now in retail.
RE: Hard to believe
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/14/2002 2:14:49 AM #
I can't believe 64% of the people who bought Palms chose Palm and/or Handspring over the Sony Clie!

RE: Hard to believe
I.M. Anonymous @ 4/14/2002 9:24:28 AM #
YOU predicted they will go out by Handspring...but who are you??? Bah...

As well they should!

I.M. Anonymous @ 4/13/2002 9:40:11 AM #
It looks like Sony is the only one doing any real innovating nowadays.
The NR70V is really hot! However I will hold off on even THIS killer piece, as OS5 and faster ARM-based processors are so close.

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