Comments on: Sony Announces PEG-T650C in Japan

I think when OS5 device shipped, some companies will
have BT built in.

ted

until battery life drops by at least 20-30% (my guess based on power needed for 802.11b vs. BT)

802.11b is for wireless Local Area networks... and it works great... its higher power, but faster and longer ranged. If your connecting to an existing wireless network 802.11b is probably the way to go.

Bluetooth is for wireless personal networks... linking your phone to a headset, or your pda to your phone... its limited to 30ft range but its cheap to make (once it gets going) low power and designed to not only link to a network but link to alot of non computing devices like headsets and such.

So if your at home or work and need access to your network... then 802.11 fits the bill... if your on the road and need connectivity to the internet then bluetooths the tool for the job.

do your ipaq sporting friends tease palms?
to run the massive amounts of applications (10?) that support it?

get real.

a 320x320 screen, integrated memory card reader and MP3 in such a small package walks on basically every other competing device, with possible exception to the casios.

if grafiti goes, put a keyboard in. the screen's fine.

Sorry for the multiple posts, but me and the last guy must have posted at just about the same time (wasn't there when I first looked.)

Kind of a harsh reaction to dashed hopes! Yes there are few (but growing) number of applications that use it but:

You get a keyboard that does not have to be taped on (IE Fitaly Stamp) and does not take up space on the screen.

You get a (small but handy) feature where a shadow of your line is drawn when you write graffiti (makes your graffiti more accurate.)

Have you actually SEEN WordSmith, ActionNames or any other of the "10 applications" that support it actually on the NR70 screen? I don't have one, but I spent an hour annoying sales folk at CompUSA while I loaded WordSmith and ActionNames to see how much more scree real-estate you get... you get ALOT of screen real-estate. You can just about fit a whole page of a book in the WordSmith doc reader page, this is far better for e-book viewing.

You can see the graffiti area at NIGHT. I got the lighted stylus for this on my good old S320 and would much rather it were backlit.

You can add a skin to it to make your palm look "cooler."

It looks really "cool!" And if all you wanted was function, you could get by with a M100.

Cheers!

-Biff K

Astraware, StandAlone, Datebk5 (as long as he doesn't run into any unforeseen problems), SplashData (they all use SONY's!), DDH Software, MobiPocket, HandsHigh... not to mention excellent apps that already support it like McFile, AcidImage, and iSilo.

I wouldn't worry too much about NR series support. From the responses I got when I inquired with the developers of my favorite apps, many of them are switching to the SONY platform anyway! I think SONY support is only going to continue to grow... I could be biased though -)

Josh

nuff said

DLM

Well, the backlight was so dim it was hard to tell it even WAS lit.

The NR screen is great and is better than the T615.

I think people would give the T650 screen better grades if it was also larger, but people are confusing the issue of screen size and the issue color quality into the same disucssion.

Idiot

Even the m515 suffers from average battery life. And an NR70 in a T615C shell will set records for poor battery life, since Sony will have to go with an even smaller battery.

Battery technology is moving pretty slowly compared to the technology of the devices that they are supposed to power -- you can rest assured that what's in your NR is the best battery solution that Sony could feasibly implement. They want to make the ultimate PDA as much as you want to buy one, maybe even moreso.

Future Palms will have even worse battery life - that much is certain. Just look at PPCs. Or do you think that the battery makers aren't supplying PPCs with their best technology because they hate Microsoft? Or maybe the PPC OS somehow makes the hardware draw 50% more power?

There is no magic battery solution that will make your 3.8" color screen, 66Mhz PDA last as long as your old 2.2" monochrome 16Mhz Palm V. Sorry to say.

8 to 10 hours is better than average. I've been able to get 15 hours and 51 minutes of runtime before the first low battery warning, which equals 31 days of average use.

Ah yes, have soldering iron, will travel. Or you could go with the $80 external battery packs, which are the same size as a Palm and attach with a cable. That must look cute and professional. Here's the iPaq stats on tested battery life:

3.5 hours - Normal use with medium backlight
2.5 hours - Normal use with high backlight
1.5 hours - Normal use with Microdrive
1.5 hours - Wireless web browsing

As far as the discontinued 505 screen, yes it was dim, but some of the iPaq users I know keep their screen just as dim to save battery life. And they still use it like a real Palm. And they still have to recharge every night. Ironic, is it not?

I wonder if we are going to include extension cord weight on the new models...

Your point about future Palms having worse battery isnt valid. The following is taken from the recent ZDNet article at http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-920395.html

"Microsoft has made big improvements in Pocket PC power efficiency over, say, a laptop. But a Palm device carrying out the same functionality as a Pocket PC will still use about half the power," said Kyle Harper, business manager for Motorola's Wireless and Baseband Systems Group.

Gordon in Edinburgh
*Sony, or not Sony?: that is the question*

What? The motorola guy was talking about Palm OS 5 running on the ARM architecture. So tell me troll - name ONE thing that a PPC can do (aside from waste system resources) that a Palm OS 5 device wont be able to do. Just one goddamned thing. I use and like PPCs on a regular basis - but look forward to PalmOS5 devices that will have the same capability but (hopefully) use less power, AND do so in an OS that is lighter and more intuitive.

I think the 66MHz Dragonball was announced at PalmSource wasn't it? Sony put it in the NR series which was announced, like - a month and half later. Seemed pretty quick to me.

Get a clue--not everyone wants what Sony is offering, or else Sony would be selling more devices than Palm!

For instance, I want a device with: color, industry-standard expansion, small/light weight, and low cost. With Sony, I can meet at most 2 out of those 4 criteria (color and size/weight)... there's only one Palm OS device at this point that offers all 4 of those--and it's not from Palm, either.

~Cal~

~Cal~"

So just because they were first, they deserve all the credit for the innovations put forth by Handspring, HandEra and Sony? Doesn't sound fair to me.

Fact is, a lot of what makes "Palm Pilots" as popular as they are today has nothing to do with Palm. Sure, Palm laid the groundwork, but it's the "other makers" that built the house and Palm has just been sponging off them ever since.

Take a Business 101 course and you'll quickly learn that market share doesn't always correlate with what the "average Joe wants". You should know better.

ssummer

Funny....I always called them diapers and refrigerators....

I cannot emphasize the importance of reading BEFORE replying. Try it some time. When I admitted that Palm put down the groundwork, for you to restate it was just wasting everyone's time.

"Yes, the other makers, as you call them, have contributed much with their innovations, but in the overall picture, Palm branded handhelds are still the vast majority."

Your grasp of the obvious is simply amazing. You might want to also READ my comment about market share vs. user wants.

"To say Palm has an unfair advantage is completely absurd."

The average person will most likely think that "Palm Pilots" (the layman's term for PDAs) are made by Palm and that if it doesn't have PALM written on the front then it's not a "Palm Pilot". That's unfair.

When the average person goes into a store asking for a "Palm Pilot", they most likely will be shown a PALM or will feel they are not getting a real "Palm Pilot" if it doesn't say PALM on it. That's an advantage.

Unfair + advantage = unfair advantage. Did I dumb it down enough for you yet?

"They worked on PalmOS and Palm PDA's for years before anyone else even bothered to try. They didn't lay the groundwork, they practically built the house.
The others just put (very impressive) window dressing on it."

Do you want me to give Palm a medal for being the first? Do they also deserve a medal for incorporating everyone else's innovations and not adding anything to the pot? If it wasn't for all this "window dressing" (must be a glass house if you call it just window dressing) we would all probably be using a Palm that was not much more than a Vx with a new choice of color face plates or something...

ssummer

Who are your sources that Palm will never produce a model with built-in MP3? Does the teacher know you are using the school computer to post foul language?

It says 12.5mm as the thickness

Not very useful either.

Such a "sleeve" feature is precisely why the first Ipaqs were so largely criticized. While the Ipaq sold incredibly well, there were still many who passed it up in favor of having a PDA with industry standard expansion (i.e. CF or SD/MMC, or both) built into the unit.

Exactly. So my question is - why not give a little on the 'thin design' and give us a slightly larger battery? I wouldn't mind a couple of millimeters or so extra (.1 inch) if it doubled my battery life.

Im not anti-sony or palm fanatic. i just want my next purchase to be what i want to be. but keep it up sony...just dont forget battery life please...

Even the m515 suffers from average battery life. And an NR70 in a T615C shell will set records for poor battery life, since Sony will have to go with an even smaller battery.

Battery technology is moving pretty slowly compared to the technology of the devices that they are supposed to power -- you can rest assured that what's in your NR/T-series is the best battery solution that Sony could feasibly implement. They want to make the ultimate PDA as much as you want to buy one, maybe even moreso.

Future Palms will have even worse battery life - that much is certain. Just look at PPCs. Or do you think that the battery makers aren't supplying PPCs with their best technology because they hate Microsoft? Or maybe the PPC OS somehow makes the hardware draw 50% more power?

There is no magic battery solution that will make your 3.8" color screen, 66Mhz PDA last as long as your old 2.2" monochrome 16Mhz Palm V. Sorry to say.

EXACTLY! and it will be our problem on fitting it on a case, but at least we have an option! how hard is it to have a removable battery? nokia has done it a long time ago why cant sony do that? the best they came up with is a travel charger! stooopidd

Actually, I would very much like the 650 if the battery life were better. I agree with the other poster, make it a little thicker and put in a better battery.

I will say the most of the time it doesn't matter (during the week it's in the cradle much of the day.) But a shorter battery life would be a pain on weekends.

My 760 lasts me pretty much through the weekend, that battery is good enough for me.

Dear Mr. Rogers,

Can you please do me a huge favor. Since you're like from the future and all that, how's about you tellin them techs over at sony how to power their new and improved Power eating devices (T650, NR, etc) . Maybe they can use some of your super high-tech inter-stellar power generating technology or somethin.....

Anyway, I am ranting because I am upset, I'm also very intelligent (3.8 in college), and I'm no where near being an old man(25 to be exact). SO why don't you get on your space ship and go back to the planet Garcon or whatever. I have a right to speak my mind about a new and improved product that I'm not too excited about.

They will catch Palm if the current trend continue.

Sony only enter this market less than 2 years.

Palm has worked on this market for 6 or more years.
Success doesn't happen over night. Just like
Jeff's Zoomer is a bomb.

ted

Do you think that PPC makers are just incompetent and simply overlook battery life issues when designing their PDAs? The fact of the matter is that the more powerful the device is, the more power it will need -- thus it ***will*** suffer from lower battery life than other, lesser models.

If you want Palm V battery life, GET A PALM V. If you want a machine with the highest res screen on the market, along with the fastest PalmOS processor out there, PREPARE TO PAY FOR IT IN BATTERY LIFE.

Yeah, yeah I know it's discontinued but there are still plenty of new ones out there that can be had for a price close to the new Treo 90...

ssummer

The charge that Sony isn't actually innovating anything (or at least only little) won't stand - sure Handera has had virtual graffiti for yonks but it was only available to the consumer in a form factor that resembled a brick. And it weighed almost the same too. (Apologies to Handera owners for dissin' your machine - no offence intended). Sony is doing what a lot of Japanese companies excel at - they miniturise technology developed by someone else. I truly doubt that the reason PalmInc (or whatever its calling itself today) has shown a distinct lack of innovation is because they are waiting for batteries to become more powerful.

Gordon from Edinburgh
*I can see blue sky from my window*

The Chevy Impala is essentially the same size as the BMW 7 series and weighs considerably less. This doesn't mean that its aesthetic qualities are on par with the BMW. Granted, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but you fail to take into consideration that plastic (handera 330) weighs less than magnesium (nr70v). And as for being shorter, last time I checked the handera 330 doesn't have an integrated camera.

Actually linux has been effectively stalled on the desktop - and most Linux vendors have basically admitted that it isnt going to takeover the desktop market either. Popular as a Server OS and for power users but too difficult for most people. I like Linux - but it will never grab a majority share of PDA market and it will never takeover on the desktop. The question then, becomes: as the number 3 PDA OS (assuming Symbian doesnt become no.3) will there be an adequate supply of software to satisfy those who adopt the platform?

First of all, what is the purpose of your purchase of N760? Do it do anything less than your expectation? If it does, then, N760 pass the first (and the most important) test.

Second, accessories. True, Clie has less accessories than Palm has. But again, would you buy "all" the accessories if you had brought a Palm?

As to why there are more people buying Palm than Clie, I have no clue and cannot explain it at all. My very biased opinion is that there are some psy'l factors involved.

Anyway, just try to make PDA work for you, not the other way around! Enjoy!

BTW, Vaja has some beautiful Sony cases now. http://www.vajacases.com/pda_eng.htm

Question for me now is 1) should I wait for ThinkOutside's keyboard that was promised for Q2 release (but haven't seen it confirmed)? or 2) just buy this keyboard?

I was enticed by the faster processor which makes all my wonderful and simple and well liked apps operate almost instantaneously on most of their functions. This is a major improvement in my opinion.

The camera has just recently proved itself useful: I had to do a site survey and had to write down the specifications glued to the face of an electrical panel. This was a full page of text which would have taken me 15 minutes or so to write down while standing. So I took a picture of it instead and trascribed the text from the comfort of my office.
Also, it is so easy and fast to snap a picture and I always have my unit with me that I am finding myself snapping pictures of all kinds of work related stuff for reference. It is also easy to take pictures without "looking" like you are doing so, as such, you do not draw any attention to yourself.

All else is fluff.

I do not use the MP3 function at all and do not even know how to use it.

and are you the same person who elsewhere in the discussion was bragging about how your vision is 20/20? I've never seen problems with lighting and the HandEra 330 except in dim single source lighting, and only without the backlight on.

> This was a full page of text which would have taken me
> 15 minutes or so to write down while standing. So I took
> a picture of it instead and trascribed the text from the
> comfort of my office.

and from a blurry 320x240 image just how much of this full page of text was accurately transcribed?

After jumping to a Kyocera Smartphone (I got tired of paying a cell phone AND Palm bill every month) that I couldn't use as a power user (no accessories like a camera or keyboard, small and blurry screen, etc.)I decided that I needed a new device.

Still determined to maintain battery life, but not wanting to carry much bulk around (remember, I still needed to lug the Kyocera around for Internet access), I chose the Sony T-415. Size and battery life were good, but screen...let's not go there.

I picked up the T-615 the day it came out as the color (my first time-what did I know) and screen resolution were absolutely fantastic. This was a hard choice as I was still without any accessories, but the 16MB of memory were important to me. I finally found a keyboard solution (serial cable and iBiz keyboard) but tried for months to find the Sony Stick Camera (still miss my Palm VIIx and PalmPix). Every site I visited showed it as backordered.

When the NR70V appeared, there was no looking back. Great color, big screen (virtual graffiti), 16MB RAM, 66 MH Proccessor, a built-in camera, a built-in case and a built-in stand (clamshell design) to use with my iBiz keyboard. I have tried the MP3 player and keyboard once or twice and they are nice, but I couldn't care less if they were there or not. By the way, my car has cruise control and I have only used that one or twice in two years. Should I look for a car without it next time?

As I said, I consider myself a power user and the NR70V is definitely not a toy. I use Pendragon Forms and Think DB to manage several dozen databases. I use Docs-To-Go to manage files, DayNotez to manage my journal and sync with Outlook XP to manage everything else. I use Mapopolis to keep from getting lost when traveling and PalmPrint, InStepPrint or PrintBoy to print documents on the road when I visit any of our 8 facilities in North America. I also take photos of competitors designs when doing store checks (without anyone even knowing I am doing it). Oh yeah, I do have a few games, but almost never (couldn't care less about the Sony button design) have any time to look at them. I agree that the battery life leaves something to be desired, but have learned to adapt (I keep the contrast at near minimum and have no problem viewing in any kind of light), charging the unit every 2-3 days.

By the way, my so called toys have helped me to become a VP in my firm and double my salary in the past five years. As I have paid for every one of these devices (never even asked to be reimbursed) fortunately there is always a line of co-workers waiting for a slightly used, discounted PDA.

So get with it. If you could afford it, you would buy one of these "souped up" PDA's too. FYI - It takes money to make money.

Congratulations to you on your upward advancement, with the assistance of the Sony. However, if I had your life, I'd probably jump off the nearest cliff I could find.

Personal preference, I guess, but that kind of dedication to work and a metal-and-plastic PDA turns my stomach. Sounds like you're on the road all the time and sounds like your professional advancement is the primary goal in your life. If that makes you happy, congratulations. I'd rather be riding my bicycle cross country and taking out my Palm IIIxe only when absolutely necessary to record some journal thoughts.

Take money to make money, as you say. However, in my experience, those obsessed with making money are usually soulless automatons living programmed lives dictated by large corporations who have convinced said automatons that money and material possessions are the key to happiness.

Cheers!

I just picked up the BC10 battery charger (using AA cells)and it seems to do what Sony says it will, charge my NR70 in 30 to 60 minutes depending upon how drained it is.

I do keep the contrast pretty low and even with my poor eyesight the display is better than anything I have seen. If you keep the contrast around 20-25%, I am guessing about 6+ hours, but with it turned up to 75-80% (default setting after reset) you will burn up the charge in 3 hours flat.

Coming from someone who was really used to the two AAA's per month plan, this has taken some getting used to, but the features make it worth it.

Responding to the earlier post, I think you missed the point. My PDA has kept me organized enough to keep track of every little tidbit of info I will ever need, giving me lots of extra time to relax at the beach condo and mountain home. I am not your upwardly mobile kind of person (2 jobs in the past 24 years) but whatever I do (work or play) I always use the best tools and give it my best shot.

Now where is that Bluetooth Stick I ordered last week?

The one thing I love about Sony is that they never rest on their laurels. Switching gears from T615C production to T650C production doesn't entail much for an electronics giant like Sony. So instead of churning out T615Cs, they simply keep the exterior and switch out the guts, giving future buyers and even better unit to choose from. Why keep making T615Cs when you have the capacity to easily switch over to making T650Cs? It's all about putting out the best product possible.

huh? i don't understand that one...
"can't never" ... let see, double negitive, so... you "can"?

my point was that I think that Palms are going to come with many many options. Each model will come with 50 configurations, and models will begin to blur together.

nategall says "blah!"

I agree, Sony could do a lot better. Built-in Bluetooth would have been nice as would a Universal plug-in rechargable PDA battery that would allow users to carry enough spares, keeping the size and weight of the PDA down and permitting the unhindered use of all these new features.

But in contrast, I think Palm has been pretty slow when it comes to innovation.

My CEO always reminds me, when you get to 70%, "go for it". We can fill in the blanks later. Being first to market is critical and Sony continues to lead in this area (at least that's my impression) even though it means another new model every few weeks. I think that's better than introducing new devices with technology that was featured in 199...

Actually for handhelds(palm and PPC) there are 3 types of
ARM processors.

1)The XScale is an ARM based processor produced by Intel.

2)Current PocketPCs are using Strong ARM (a very power hungry processor also produced by Intel).

3) The processor Palm is going to use is not the same ARM as the one PocketPC actually use. Palm is going to use a different design called ARM 7. ARM 7 is just as efficient as XScale ARM but suited to different applications and is available from different manufacturers. ARM 7 is actually used on many Cell phones and some MP3 players.

I strongly belive that PalmSource made the right desicion when choosing ARM 7 over XScale. ARM 7 is more compact and power efficient than XScale ARM or Strong ARM.

Bill Wallace
Computer Engineer

Other ARM processors like ARM 7 come fron different manufacturers.