Comments on: New Quickoffice 6.0 Adds VFS, Hi-Res+

Cutting Edge Software has just released Quickoffice 6.0, the latest version of its office suite of applications. This is made up of Quickword, a word processor; Quicksheet, a spreadsheet app; and Quickchart, a charting app which is tied to Quicksheet. The new version offers both VFS and hi-res+ support, an improved desktop client, and many other new features. It is available now for $40.
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Ho hum... no Mac!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 9:46:41 AM #
They had a beta of a Mac conduit some time back and it worked off and on. But with the last version that came out the syncing started doing all kinds of crazy stuff to the spreadsheets. Sure would love to see a Mac conduit for a spreadsheet. TinySheet does it via export/importing through a tab delimited memo pad item.
RE: Ho hum... no Mac!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 10:14:34 AM #
Agreed. These guys told me that they would be continuing Mac support and development over 2 years ago. I purchased their software. Six months later, still no updated Mac conduit. I called them and asked for a refund, explaining my frustrated position. After receiving several insulting emails, I finally told them that I'd start posting their behavior and email on as many bulletin boards and list serves as I could... I got my refund. Never again will I deal with Cutting Edge Software.
RE: Mac version?
Cutting Crew 2 @ 6/5/2002 10:23:58 AM #
A beta conduit has existed for Quicksheet v4 for some time now, to be sure. It is occasionally provided to customers with full disclosure that it is beta software, and thus, is unsupported, particularly for later versions. When customers beg us for the beta conduit, it's hard to hold back this existing code from them, though we try to make clear to them it's status. ;)

We have been encouraged to see the resurgence in interest in the MacOS following the OS X introduction and the recent iMac, and we are exploring the issue. We certainly know there is a growing community of PalmOS device users who find the marriage of their handheld with their favorite desktop OS to be a match made in heaven.


Cutting Edge, Inc.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:28:58 PM #
That's just a lot of soft soap. Cutting Edge hasn't *produced* any Mac products (or even Mac compatible archives instead of .exe files!) in years. At this point I doubt they ever will, despite their claims to the contrary.

It's a pity, too - I bought Quickword way back when, and would prefer it, but they just won't take mac users into consideration. Now I use Wordsmith (or Zdocm -- it's totally free!)

RE: Ho hum... no Mac!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:52:27 PM #
I'm glad that PIC has a Mac community. It seems like a talented person from our legions could construct a simple converter from the quirky .pdb format to a usable Office V.x file.

VFS support?

ssummer @ 6/5/2002 10:17:30 AM #
Does VFS support also mean it can be run from external memory? I'm tired of these bloated apps using up my internal memory...

RE: VFS support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 10:21:47 AM #
PiDirect II works great for me. I'm running everything from the card. Loads incredibly fast, too.
RE: VFS support?
Ed @ 6/5/2002 10:31:48 AM #
The press info they gave me touted how well Quickoffice works with PiDirect II so that appears to be their recommended solution for people who want to run Quickoffice from a memory card.

---
News Editor
RE: VFS support?
ssummer @ 6/5/2002 10:45:13 AM #
Blah. I hate PiDirect. Crashes my Clie way too much.


RE: VFS support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:20:34 AM #
Does PiDirect II support read and write, or read only?
RE: VFS support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:32:24 AM #
PiDirect is read only
RE: VFS support?
Ronin @ 6/5/2002 12:01:43 PM #
I have not tried QuickOffice yet or its support for VFS but I can comment on storing large apps on the card.

My experience has been that there is nothing preventing the storage of most applications on the card even if the app itself supports VFS. By and large the determining factor is whether the app has a conduit which works with hotsync and whether that conduit will continue to work without the application present in internal memory. For example, iSilo 3.11 can utilize VFS for its data files and has a hotsync conduit, however, I am able to store the application on the card and the conduit still functions. This works just as well (and without exception) with programs that do not have a conduit.

Hope this helps.

RE: VFS support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:06:25 PM #
First, I own Quick Office 6.0. I have owned several past versions and I keep upgrading and supporting them because I'm hoping that they will improve some of the really bad things in their products. Unfortunately, new versions come out and the old problems are still there.

While they have finally added some VFS/SD support, it is still very poor! Yes, you can transfer data files to and from external cards and it is better than no support, but it took a minute and 30 seconds to transfer my 98K spreadsheet to SD on a Palm 505 with FastCPU clocking everything at max! This is totally unacceptable and makes their SD support just about useless. The only real reason to support SD is to allow us to keep the larger files outside of normal memory but if the transfer speed is so ridiculous, it makes it mostly unusable. Also, if you transfer a data file to SD, you can not do anything with it without sending it back to RAM. While I understand the need to move it back to RAM to change the contents, it is impossible to do even simple things like checking or changing properties while the file is on a card. Again, if the transfer speed is so slow, why bother?

I used to like Quick Word. I switched to WordSmith last year for word processing because WordSmith has excellent support for an external keyboard support and Quick Word does not! 6.0 still lacks proper support.

I tried Tiny Sheet by iambic as a replacement for Quick Sheet. Tiny Sheet can load the same 98K spread sheet in about two seconds from RAM compared with 30 seconds for Quick Sheet. Unfortunately, Tiny Sheet is so bug ridden, I will not buy it or use it until it is stable. It does prove that speed is a coding issue and not a limitation of the Palm platform.

I probably will continue to support Quick Office, but I am losing patience with the developers. My hope is that their competition will improve to the point that there is a real alternative and I can switch everything over to something else.

RE: VFS support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:10:46 PM #
So basically, you can run the program or read-only files with their "recommened solution" of PiDirect II. But if you need to edit a file, you have to save it in the palm. Doesn't sound like good VFS support to me. Look at WordSmith that lets you EDIT docs on the card.

Looks like I'll keep on using PowerRun (and wait for everything to load into & delete from RAM) for programs that don't truely support VFS. :(

RE: VFS support?
sumisu @ 6/5/2002 1:06:36 PM #
You can run Quickoffice 6 off the card using PiDirect II, and once it is load it includes functionality for opening, editing and saving quickoffice files that are stored on expansion cards. Each time you open a file from a card it first copies it to RAM. Then you can edit it and when ou are done it moves it back to the card. All of this moving and copy to and from the card takes a bit of time. Hopefully there will be some speed improvements over time.

RE: VFS support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 1:08:04 PM #
" Does VFS support also mean it can be run from external memory? I'm tired of these bloated apps using up my internal memory..."

You always could. The OS limitation is that you loose conduit connectivity. However that can be restored by either using something like a Launcher III stub, or AutoCard/MSMount/PiDirect.

RE: VFS support?
Altema @ 6/5/2002 1:30:43 PM #
"but it took a minute and 30 seconds to transfer my 98K spreadsheet to SD on a Palm 505 with FastCPU clocking everything at max!"

90 seconds is pretty rough. A 131k sheet in DTG takes 3.8 seconds, and a similar sheet (with 8,000 filled cells, special formatting and colors for each cell)takes 20 seconds in MiniCalc 6.4

RE: VFS support?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/18/2002 12:07:35 PM #
CES responded to my criticism of the load/save to VFS speed issue by refunding the upgrade price. I did provide them with the 98K spreadsheet and it is my sincere hope that they use it to fix the problem. This issue aside, I still think QuickSheet is a superb product and I will continue to use it until I find something better.

Expensive upgrade

teq @ 6/5/2002 10:39:24 AM #
Did you see their upgrade policy? Almost $20 for an upgrade... seems too expensive to me.

****** Pilot 5000 => Palm Pilot III => Palm Vx => M505 - Ive had them all and loved each one of them.
RE: Expensive upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:41:31 AM #
That's definitely seems steep to get the VFS and Hi-Res features which is the main advantage I'd see in the upgrade.

With 5.6.4 already providing Hi-Res on the Quicksheet it becomes tempting to pay the extra and go for Wordsmith for the Word processing side, although it would mean missing out on VFS support for Quickoffice.


RE: Expensive upgrade
sumisu @ 6/5/2002 12:01:14 PM #
If you bought Quickoffice with a free one year upgrade, it still applies. Just go to:

http://store.cesinc.com/upgradeonline.asp

RE: Expensive upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:32:14 PM #
Sure - as long as you're not using a Mac or Linux box... why not just post a .zip with the relevant files?
RE: Expensive upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 9:19:02 PM #
I find the upgrade expensive as well. The full version 5 sold for $30 recently, now they charge you $20 just for the upgrade... I would buy it for $10 though.
RE: Expensive upgrade, no free Handera upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 9:22:15 PM #
Apparently a H330 upgrade is going to cost $20... Further their is no mention of any Handera 330 specific updates and or features. This is extreamly humorus because Handera ships with QuickOffice and the selling point is that they are "optimized" to work together. What a load of crap it this? $20.00 for a .5 upgrade DO we take this or do an Iambic on their ass? What do you say Palm users?
RE: Expensive upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 10:04:40 PM #
> Apparently a H330 upgrade is going to cost $20.

What did you expect? Free upgrades for life???

> Further their is no mention of any Handera 330
> specific updates and or features.

Did you try reading the features they list on their website or the copies of the v6.0 manual they have for download? Apparently not.

> DO we take this or do an Iambic on their [...]

Get a life. Your version 5.6.x hasn't stopped working, and Cutting Edge produces a product worth paying for.

RE: Expensive upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:39:30 PM #
One word.....Warez!
RE: Expensive upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 9:12:09 AM #
free upgrade for life probably not, but this is a lot. Anything under $10 I would not have hesitated but now I'm not sure.

I am seriously considering keeping QuickSheet but switching to WordSmith instead.

thanks yv
- yv@laposte.net

RE: Expensive upgrade
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 1:20:23 PM #
I agree this is highway robbery. And I am really pissed at Handera they should have v6.0 available to registered users. All os a sudden its like they never heard of QuickOffice.
@sumisu: Thanks for your TIO QO 6 is free within a year
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 3:16:14 PM #
Hey sumisu,
thanks for your tip with the free upgrade within a year. I bought the quickoffice exactly a year ago and today I got the upgrade link and that works fine and free for me, so I think that it is worth to pay 20USD for 1-2 years....

THANKS from GERMANY

Wordsmith still has the edge

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 10:44:50 AM #
Have both, just tried QWord 6. Formatting options are meager, not intuitive though it does SEEM to synch from the card (a huge step) but my trial version refused. A pity they are using HTML to carry the formatting info. I'll still stick to Word smith for wordprocessing, though I wish they would hurry up with their card synching update for files!!!!


RE: Wordsmith still has the edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 1:10:16 PM #
Bluenomad has also stated on their beta group that they're working on a spreadsheet.

Think I'll continue to limp with QuickOffice 5.x bundled with my HandEra, and wait for a spreadsheet from the folks that know how to do multi-platform HighRes, and VFS.

RE: Wordsmith still has the edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:43:36 PM #
Blue Nomad has said they had a spreadsheet "about to be released" for the past year. It's the ultimate vaporware--
RE: Wordsmith still has the edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 12:29:45 PM #
The said that about the parachute and pocket pyro too...
RE: Wordsmith still has the edge
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/7/2002 10:50:20 AM #
I don't quite know whether Wordsmith has the edge, it certainly has other interesting features that I could use and it not as fat as QuickWord (but geting closer)

Regarding Hi-Res support however, there is one important constraint : Asian language support must be TURNED OFF. I have CJKOS installed which lets me use Chinese, Japanese, Korean fonts and input, and this can be turned on/off any time on a regular English system. But that is not enough for WordSmith to switch to Hi-Res mode.

Not so with QuickWord, which works without a glitch. I hate to say this because I still think their pricing policy is unreasonable.

Yv - yv@laposte.net

Hi-Res Support???

big_raji @ 6/5/2002 10:44:58 AM #
I tried out a demo of Quickoffice awhile back, because it touted "Hi-Res Support".

Quicksheet hires support was great. I could fit more information on the screen on my Clie.

Quickword hires support seemed non-existant. Perhaps I dismissed it too quickly, but I couldn't find any way to make the fonts smaller.

By looking at the screenshots, it looks like Quickword's hires support hasn't greatly improved. The fonts look like they're smoother thanks to hires, but they don't look like they can get smaller to fit more on the screen.

Can anyone confirm this? Perhaps I'll try to download the demo tonight at home, but I'd imagine that since my trial on Quickoffice 5 ran out, something in my Palm will show that, and I probably won't be able to run a trial for Quickoffice 6.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Hi-Res Support???
Cutting Crew 2 @ 6/5/2002 10:55:27 AM #
Using FontBucket, load various sizes of TrueType fonts using either the Arial, Times New Roman, etc. fonts included, OR make your own display fonts in nearly any size desired using the now included Font Convertor(TM) utility on your PC.
From miniscule to massive, you can pick the size you want, and use ZoomView to step through eleven zoom levels.

Mike Compeau
Cutting Edge Software

RE: Hi-Res Support-- ALL there
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 2:44:34 PM #
I'm amazed that my last two Sony's came with Dataviz but they don't provide high resolution support. What is Sony thinking?
No, I've never had a sync problem with Quickoffice and I've lost files with Document To Go, so for me I will stick with QuickOffice.
RE: Hi-Res Support???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 3:05:59 PM #
No, I've never had a sync problem with Document To Go and I've lost files with Quickoffice, so for me I will stick with Document To Go.
RE: Hi-Res Support???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 3:11:11 PM #
I didn't think that Font Bucket supported Sony Hi-Res. On the "Feature Request" page for FB, this is still one of the choices "Hi-Res capabilty for the Sony Clie".
RE: Hi-Res Support???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:44:37 PM #
FontBucket itself does not NEED to support HiRes in order for Quickword or other apps(Silverscreen) to support high res displays.

All that means is that the FontBucket app itself will not display the fonts in high resolution when you look at their examples... Not a big deal, really.

I want to know too
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 8:57:31 AM #
I did purchase QuickOffice 5.6 in February and was very disappointed by the lack of QW support (unlike QS).
The main reason for me to use QWord is to use non-proportional fonts for specific text display that needs to be aligned. And I need to fit as much as possible so I don't care much about font antialiasing, all I need is to pack more characters on each line.

Can s.o. confirm whether it really does that (rather than just nicer/smoother rendition?)

thanks yv
- yv@laposte.net

font size 8 upwards ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 9:03:54 AM #

BTW, I use HKfont (6 pts) QWord 5.6 could only display 38 characters (i.e. 38x5 pixels + scroll bar). Can QWord now deliver 77 characters in HiRes?

I am wondering given that its font management software can only convert fonts of size 8 and upwards?

thanks yv
- yv@laposte.net

RE: Hi-Res Support???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 2:12:22 PM #
"FontBucket itself does not NEED to support HiRes in order"

But then the FontBucket fonts are pixel doubled on a Sony device in HiRes mode. Not as clean as standard Sony HiRes fonts, right?

Quicksheet - Cell Overflow

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:04:25 AM #
Does it allow for cell overflow? It seems that some of the other programs have had this feature for years. I owned Quicksheet for many years but don't seem to use it often.
RE: Quicksheet - Cell Overflow
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 2:46:41 PM #
I wish they would add this too.

That's really the only thing I don't like about the Suite.

RE: Quicksheet - Cell Overflow
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 5:01:11 AM #
What's cell overflow??

Sounds interesting, I wish I had it too!

Whatever it is.

Thanks,

Spell Checking and More

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:15:37 PM #
Ok, now that we have the attention of Cutting Edge.

2 Questions:

1) Does QuickWord offer spellchecking?

2) Have you guys added cell spillover?

RE: Spell Checking and More
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 1:12:56 PM #
" 1) Does QuickWord offer spellchecking?"

Even the latest versions of QuickOffice 5 do. Appears to be the same engine as WordSmith uses (a 3rd party source).

THANK YOU CESINC

Chankla @ 6/5/2002 12:33:12 PM #
Having both the external memory device access and full screen support on my NR70V is terrific. This is really a worthwhile upgrade.

poor Syncronization.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:37:05 PM #
still no one beats Documents to Go for its syncronization.

Quick Office removes most formatting from documents. I just hope Docs to Go adds more features to their word processor and suport for high res +.

RE: poor Syncronization.
kilo94 @ 6/5/2002 1:42:51 PM #
I sync and never have this problem. Been using QO for years, and it works great for me.


--------------------------
I support PIC and Palmvenue; Visit http://www.palmvenue.com/Forum/
RE: poor Syncronization.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 2:10:42 PM #
hrFontMap will let you use Docs to Go in full screen. The sheet-to-go didn't expand to HiRes+ but the Word-to-go did.
RE: poor Syncronization.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 4:00:07 PM #
Where can I go to get hrFonMap? Thanks.
RE: poor Syncronization.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 8:15:55 PM #
>>I sync and never have this problem. Been using QO for years, and it works great for me.


That's impossible because the it is stated in CESINC site. That's why Quick Sheet offers the feature of opening a sheet over another, because the original is stripped of formatting.

Also Quick Ward strips most formattin including tables of content and tables.

direct word file???

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:38:24 PM #
Could someone please let me know if quickword/quickexcel is able to read the actual word/excel document? In other words, if I transfer a word doc onto a memory card, will quickword be able to read it, or will the conduit software need to convert it to a quickword format?
RE: direct word file???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:49:24 PM #
No.
RE: direct word file???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 12:59:55 PM #
NO
QWord: It stores the file as HTML i.e. ASCII
Word = mumbo jumbo (or at least it looks like that when you force open a Word file with a text editor ... but as I am not a techee I just call it mumbo - jumbo seems to be a combination of weird charchters at the top and bottom of the file (formatting stuff) and ascii in the middle your file - perhaps its binary.
RE: direct word file???
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 2:25:37 PM #
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it could read an HTML file from card either. I'll buy it when it can load/save, import/export a standard file format from card.
RE: direct HTML file!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 2:48:18 PM #
Try this... I beamed an HTML file from my laptop to the Palm m505... and Quickword opened it right up!!
How'd they do that, but can't open HTML file on the card??


QuickSheet & Landscape Display on SONY HiRes+?

robrecht @ 6/5/2002 6:53:34 PM #
Does anyone know if the new version of QuickSheet can display spreadsheets in landscape mode on the SONY NR70 and take advantage of the extra screen real estate when the soft grafitti area is not being displayed?

QuickSheet is able to do this on the Handera but Iambic's new HiRes+ version of TinySheet cannot do this on the SONY NR70.

Thanks, Robrecht

RE: QuickSheet & Landscape Display on SONY HiRes+?
Chankla @ 6/5/2002 10:19:23 PM #
Portrait mode only. No landscape mode.

RE: QuickSheet & Landscape Display on SONY HiRes+?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 11:47:21 PM #
I'm told this is a Sony problem, not a iambic or CES problem

just 4 fun

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/5/2002 9:37:57 PM #
Question: If you can't take a BIG flashlight with you, what do you take? A pocket flashlight.

Question. If you can't take an UZI with you what do you take? A pocket gun

Question: If you can't take a sword with you, what do you take? A knife (pocket sword).

Question: If you can't take office with you, what do you take? POCKET OFFICE!(not quickoffice)

Question. If you can't take a PC with you, what do you take? A Pocket pc!

Sorry. just being humurous


RE: just 4 fun
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 12:40:23 AM #
MOOSE POOP!!!
RE: just 4 fun
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 2:03:19 AM #
You must have pocket brain too.
RE: just 4 fun
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/6/2002 12:20:17 PM #
The "If you can't..." comment displays a fundamental misapprehension, sadly common among PPC-PDA enthusiasts.


Read the below carefully:

***If I wanted to take a PC with me, I'd take a laptop.***

PPC's do approximate pocket-PC functionality, with drawbacks of cost, size, and battery life. PPC's are undoubtedly the best solution for some people- but to pretend that they are the best solution for all PDA-users is utter idiocy.

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