Comments on: Rumor: Images of Color HandEra Device Leaked

Whatever. Its essentially the same size as the 330, which is slightly larger than the "thin" Palms, and noticably smaller than the bigger ones like the NR-series and most Pocket PCs. All while packing in more functionality and expansion options than any other Palm (and some Pocket PCs for that matter). If it's the same as the 330, it'll be much lighter than most as well.

i am an m505 owner and i wouldnt buy this thing but i know a lot of people would. So my friend, its not for you and me but it doesnt mean we're the only consumer out there... in other words.. Sh#t up. =)

a brick? yes, but it's a brick and the only brick running on palm os features a built-in CF slot and SD slot. this is a brick but it is a pretty damn useful brick.

btw, the NR series is not big at all, it's long, but big would not be an appropiate description.

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

if this is a brick, than the NR70 is a cinder block!

well, it's me again... I didn't say it's a bad palm OS PDA, it's just looking big. I own palm m515 and I'm happy with it, but that doesn't mean I am not allowed to comment on handera.. ok? :)

> if this is a brick, than the NR70 is a cinder block!

No comparison here, NR70 is the BEST and most POWERFUL PDA available in the market today and Handera ? What is that ? It's only a brick, an ugly brick.

There is no one "best" handheld, because everyone's needs are different. For instance, I don't need Wi-Fi if I don't have a Wi-Fi network around--or if I don't choose to use a handheld on one.

..and the world is beautiful place, where everything is equally magnificent and devine....

(what is this? kindergarten trip to the Zoo?)

Sony is crap. Everything looks like the ugly a$$ stereos of the 70's. Hell even their car stereos are the same awful fake metallic look. Ugly exsits everywhere in each of the manufacturers product lines. Most of these people probably want Abercrobie & Bitch to brand a Palm device.

Those who predict that every company that produces a Palm based unit should be purchased by Sony are IDIOTS. Why do you want one company to produce all Palm devices? we all know how well that has worked in the IT sector.

Sorry for the rambling but the comments on this board have degraded to the Slashdot level. I want useful information and opinions. That is what I used to find here.

Hey genius, you wrote:

"Sorry for the rambling but the comments on this board have degraded to the Slashdot level. I want useful information and opinions. That is what I used to find here."

But you began buy saying:

"Sony is crap. Everything looks like the ugly a$$ stereos of the 70's. Hell even their car stereos are the same awful fake metallic look. Ugly exsits everywhere in each of the manufacturers product lines. Most of these people probably want Abercrobie & Bitch to brand a Palm device."

Yeah, very two-face of you.

It is the only thing you people understand.

you speak trash.

"No comparison here, NR70 is the BEST and most POWERFUL PDA available in the market today and Handera ? What is that ? It's only a brick, an ugly brick."

Come again? I have to hand it to the Sony Visual Appeal Design Department but....

The shape of the NR70 is too cumbersome. You have to either use it sitting open (sometimes a very hard proposition, like when walking) or sacrifice the app buttons and be left with only the jog dial. and back button. I won't even start on the button layout for gaming but then again I will **** now, even though I am an owner of a 710c the handheld with the stiffest buttons in the world (I had to modify them so I could play games.... quite fun) But I also have to look at the fact that many PDA owners do not play games...

hmm.. this post may not make no sence what-so-ever because I'm on muscle relaxants right now - torn muscle in my back =(

Oh well,
Peace
-Bartman007

dude, I hope you didn't suffer that muscle tear from "gaming" on your PDA too much. Buy a gameboy and leave the mature electronics to the grown-ups.

Leave the "mature electronics" to people who start their sentences with "dude"? Gaming is a perfectly mature way to use a PDA. I'm a "mature" CEO and I love games on my PDA.

The original Palm III was 4.7 by 3.2 by .7 inches. This device would thus be .05 inches wider. This is larger than the Palm V/m5xx units, but much, much smaller than most other units, including the PocketPCs.

It shouldn't be too hard to find, the list should be blank...

ha ha

Unless you're comparing it to an m5xx or a Palm V, I think it looks darn good.

Wow Handera Certainly has a Talent for making the ugliest PDA's EVER!

Yup,cannot agree with you more. 50 thousand ? I think it should be 5 thousand .

I'm sure there's no point in responding to the ugly troll, but I just don't get where the ugly comments are coming from. Handspring has never produced any device that even looks this good, and the Palm m1xx devices are nothing to write home about either. Other than the Palm V and m5xx devices and the Sony T series nothing looks very good, and you won't be packing this kind of functionality in those size devices for a while yet.

If you look over the various comments, you'll see a variety of opinions. On this new device--most of the comments on the aesthetics of it are negative. But there's a lot of range in what people do like. I think it means that HandEra does need a good industrial designer. Does that mean everyone will like the results? No.

To me, at least, it just goes to show that you can't expect one aesthetic design to please everyone any more than one featureset will.

I for one, like the Treo design--90, 180 and 270. I'm mixed on the Palm V/m5xx design. The Palm III series was ok, but lackluster (better in the darker tone, though). The m1xx--blah, ho-hum. The i705 would be better in actual metal rather than silver-painted plastic. Most of the Visors were ok; I liked the Edge, but not its stylus. The only Clies that really look worth much--IMO--are the T series. (That's aesthetically, remember, not in terms of the screen.)

But looks are only part of the picture anyway. While it would be good for HandEra to use a simple, understated design, there are a lot of other areas where their handhelds really deliver, and sometimes more so than other companies. And if this is a prototype, there may be other features and enhancements with more "wow" factor on the final result. Who knows? They may even give it a new look.

Some people are drawn to the Pontiac Aztec by its looks. some--but probably not as many as those who run from it. The Ford Taurus is probably nobody's dream car but gobs are sold. Understated styling excites few but repulses few. Handera could learn from this. Personally, I like the looks of the 330. It reminds me of a 50's jukebox. If Buck Rogers ever had a handheld it would surely look like a 330-a futuristic vision (from the past.) Am I the only one that likes its looks? And before anybody asks, I don't own one.

I don't understand it, really. Although I do lust over the extra pocketability of the Palm m5xx form factor, I absolutely LOVE the styling of the HE330- and I was delighted to be able to continue using my old keyboard, extra cradles and so on.

There's room in the market for many types of devices, and it is sad to see a quality board such as this one being polluted with the kind of juvenile rhetoric that we have seen such far.

If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1819-1892)

d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados

Objectively speaking, there's little denying that the prototype we're all commenting here on got hit with the same ugly stick that went to work on its predecessor - Handera really needs to drop some coin on an industrial designer and fire that 12 year old they currently have on the payroll.

That said, on paper it's hard to beat the functionality that this device brings to the table, provided it ever gets built. Frankly, if I didn't already buy a hideous, overweight cinder block of an NR70V, I'd really consider adding this one to my PDA "stable" - CF, SD, color, virtual grafitti, a wealth of accessories... Aside from the looks, what's not to like?

-Adam

Yeah, that thing is hideous.

First PDA: PEG-NR70V

Comments: Amazing and well worth my money. However, if you're not a fan of the camera than you're not a fan of the NR70V. Buying it sans camera would be a big mistake. IMO

I think it's ugly too, but the functionality really is more important to most people. There has always been a niche of consumers for whom the Handera has fit the bill perfectly. The dual expansion slots and III series accessories make it a very good choice for those who need versatility. It has a very unique set of features and they are important ones to some people.

The only way that could get uglier is if they made 2 of them.

Quit talking to yourself.

maybe this unit is using some of the technology they plan to implement in their OS5 product

And yet, to NOT release one, would waste all the development time spent on it. Remember the color QVGA Symbol prototype that was shown at PalmSource. It was running HandEra OS4.1 A fair amount of time has gone into it.

How exactly does this "beg the question"? Begging the question is a term used in argument, and I don't see how this begs the question:

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/begging.htm

Anonymous Howard

Oh god...****.

Handera is the only PALM device than can possibly have Wi-FI or 1Gig of expansion.

1 gig of expansion? Thank God. I was wondering how I was going to fit the entire NYC phone book on my external memory. Now if my batteries would only last as long as a typical search would.

I mean, this begs the question, does anyone even know of any Palm OS application that makes use of 1 gig of expansion? If so, let them know that there is a color version of the brick coming out.

Ok first of all, there are tons of apps that can make use of of a one gig expansion card. I myself have over 300 MBs of medical software databases plus books, and journals that i could easily use to fill up I GB. But my view here is that in order for Handera to make this PDA unique and in order to justify the dated and bulky form factor, what they really need to do is include integrated BT. Something like this with virtual graffiti in my opinion would truely make a product stand out in today's crowded palm os market

>Something like this with virtual graffiti in my
>opinion would truely make a product stand out in
>today's crowded palm os market

Not any more, NR70's virtual graffiti will be far more better than this "thing".

> Not any more, NR70's virtual graffiti will be far more better than this "thing".

And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble. You see, the Japanese are experts in competing against our domestic markets with inferior products. If this continues, our fellow Americans will suffer unemployment. Our standards of living will degrade. We will not allow our economy be ruled by un-American principles.

I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.

> I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA

Remeber , u need to commit to buying 50 thousand of them .

>>>I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.

Americans are so embarrasing when you get all patriotic!! I love that - with sony making inroads - you claim that these 'foreigners' are are pushing 'inferior' products on poor, helpless, americans! And to think - they way we helped out the whole world so much - you'd think they'd be more grateful for all the things we've done! Just stop it - we live in a different world now - okay? There aren't any commies under yr bed, the Japanese made it into the north american car market BECAUSE THEY WERE COMPETITIVE, and hiding behind 'troubled times' (terrorism - which is as old as humanity) as an excuse for this embarrassing pap is just plain silly. grow up.

>>And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble. You see, the Japanese are experts in competing against our domestic markets with inferior products. If this continues, our fellow Americans will suffer unemployment. Our standards of living will degrade. We will not allow our economy be ruled by un-American principles.

>>I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.

Is this guy being sarcastic?

Handera has no reason for existing anymore, I really wish they would get in the game or off the god damn fence. I bet they will not even have the balls to reply to this. No Comment, were stupid and can't comment or we'll devulge our precious secret "How to screw up a 2 year head start and lose our asses while trying"

The stupid idiots screw up the Handera launch by 3 months. Then they do NOTHING to promote the damn thing. Finally, they sell 3 and wonder why, don't release OS4.0, only include 2megs of Flash ram in a 330, design an SD card port that wont work with SD accesories. They blew the deal with CompUSA to get units in peoples hands. Sit on their asses for a year while Sony eats them for lunch. Fast forward 1 1/2 years later NO new hardware, No color units, NO OS4 release, NO support for AutoCard (still BETA for 1 year and counting), and a screen format no one supports. And the damn things are over priced as hell for a B&W unit.

I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Handera supporters that blindly kiss Handeras tender stupid ass and justify every stupid mistake this company has made. The problemn in IOWA is they are a bunch of engineer geeks with ZERO marketing/sales skills and a bunch of YES men kissing each others asses. They may have had the balls to try but they sure show no freaking brains in following through. Now H330 users get little or no support or respect from 3rd party applications, No OS4.0, No help from Handera to get 3rd party apps written. Screw them, they want to stay in business start by releaseing OS4 and getting some 3rd party apps to use the damn harware otherwise its just an expensive glorified 5 year old IIIxe PDA.

"Handera is the only PALM device than can possibly have Wi-FI or 1Gig of expansion."

OK, So no other device can have Wi-Fi because of a lack of CF slot? Well Gee I know of companies developing Wi-Fi SD cards, and Wi-Fi Sleds are out there.

..and I know a company who develop pshychokinesis SD slot.

get real ok, we are talking about real product here, not some imaginary, soon released in undetermined future.

How big was Palm Inc's promise on this SD slot? supposedly we already have GPS, camera, modem, wireles, and whatever else on SDIO. (but so far.....

There is a CF sled available for the NR70/V:

http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/Qnavi/Detail/PEGA-CF70.html

the Handera is the only Palm that allows you memory expansion and I/O expansion both at the same time. It has voice recording. I can't wait to see what they can do for PalmOS 5

"And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble. You see, the Japanese are experts in competing against our domestic markets with inferior products. If this continues, our fellow Americans will suffer unemployment. Our standards of living will degrade. We will not allow our economy be ruled by un-American principles."

There isn't much you can do about this. Have a look at your stuff around the house ... most of them are made not made in the USA. You need to face the fact that America does not equal the world (not any more anyway) and there are another 5.8 billion people out side America who also have the need by food and clothing. Boycotting foreign good will not solve the problem either. It will only made America even less competitive and in the long run, the degradeion of the standards of living. So instead of cying out, America need to join the completion and beat the others to win the race.

BTW, the Japanese don't make inferior products, not in this case. If they did, they wouldn't have lasted this long in a free market.

> There is a CF sled available for the NR70/V:

and last I heard, the only device it worked with was a single wireless modem, plus it adds bulk to an already big device. All these sled devices are going to be slower than CF anyhow, because they either have to go through the serial port or be more expensive plus slower as a USB master device. Then on the software side, the sled devices and Springboards have all had to use PPP for connectivity, so speed suffers there as well. Sorry, but the Clies are the worst choice for any kind of expansion.

The sled works with all I/O Compact Flash devices. The only thing that it isn't compatible with is CF flash memory.

All? Name a few. Where are the drivers for them?

For all you patriots above:
The handera is made in Korea (Samsung)!

Still a great machine!

>>
And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble.
<<

Palm and Handspring may be incorporated in the U.S., but the m5xx series is built in Mexico and Hungary. The Treo is built in Mexico as well.

"Well Gee I know of companies developing Wi-Fi SD cards, and Wi-Fi Sleds are out there."

There certainly are. And yet, it's more expensive, can only be used on a PDA series vs. a CF card that can be used in PalmOS devices, EPOC devices, PocketPC devices, Laptops, and desktops.

Also sleds are restricted to 115Kbps (the speed of the serial port). CF cards are already much faster on current hardware, with WiFi network hotsyncs faster than USB. And my own informal test of FTP transfers direct to/from SD over WiFi yielding 4-5 times the maximum rate of the serial port. On Arm hardware, we should be able to approach the full rates 11Mbps.

Prediction for 2002:

Somebody develops a way to filter I.M Anonymous comments. Including this one! Ah!

Prediction for 2003:

Handera , we will remember you FOREVER.

Talking to yourself? At least have the courage to slither out from under the I.M. Anon handle. If your prediction is like your deodorant, it will not hold up.

Higgy

[Quote]
Somebody develops a way to filter I.M Anonymous comments.
[/Quote]

That would be great! Take a look at this:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4995

I realise I'm off topic about whether the Handera is ugly or not (beauty in the eye of the beholder -- I'd rather beholding (sic) it than reading about it...). However, with regards to the anonymous postings, I think it makes the site much more open and accessible. I know the arguments go round and round and frequently descend into flames but requiring a login will make the site less inviting. However, if the current format does not suit the majority of existing users then it should be changed... How about one of those community votes?

yeah. and never mind sleek even - they could have easily come up with something better at the same size as this. I am really baffled by this. That ugly white and blue! the way the they meet at the buttons - ichh!!! At least fix the color.

I don't get the point, I think the colors and the styling look good here. Handspring sold millions of those ugly translucent things, and nobody seemed to complain.

Art is in the eye of the beholder.

Higgy

Sorrie guys, functionality aside, that thing does look ugly. If it works fine etc etc, then I believe pple might look at it in a different light...

so meanwhile, it stays ugly

Sympathy cannot help or save this ugly creature.

But it IS ugly. I'm surprised that it looks worse than the H330, as
others have stated. HandEra clearly cannot find a good industrial
designer -- or can't afford one (ie, frogdesign).

That said, it might just photograph badly (as the Toshiba PPC
e310 does).

BUY a NICE leather case for gawd sake......

>>They act as though putting together a top-notch PDA without any shortcomings or quality control flaws is something any guy can do on weekends in his garage, producing a finished product in, say, a couple of months. These things take vast amounts of time and money to create, and by the time they're done there is no guarantee someone else hasn't passed you up, as Sony is trying to do with ruthless speed.

All the comments here are about how ugly this thing is. Nobody said it was an easy thing to make a cutting edge device. But thats precisely what is so stupid about Handeras move here: They build this great device and then when it come to the 'easy part' they create the ugliest case imaginable. For all of the comparisons to a brick that people have written above, i think a basic magnesium box (a 'brick' if you will) would be a vast improvement on this horrid design.

And how easy do you think it is to include magnesium case? Do you know there is NO single company in US that offer magnesium casing product fo handheld? And only a few in far east?

Ever wonder why only Sony can have so many magnesium case in handheld products? (if you count Handspring ugly mold..well there is another one)

Ths NR-70V _is_ available in Germany since about two weeks.

FYI

It has been stated that they were somehow going to use the same connector, but still provide USB support. So it is not surprising that it appears to have the same connector.

Murphy's law... when I skimmed the article the first time, I missed that line.

No, you didn't read that, because the Clié's only account for aprox. 1% (maybe even less) of Sony's total profit!

yeah....we did read that...
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3586

Gimme a break Sony is still not making any money on their PDAs. The how would it increase profit? Sony Clie sales is a fractions of 1% of all other Sony sales. Even if they were making money on the Clie's it would be insignificant.

Roll? Define "roll with the big dogs"? The stupid idiots screw up the Handera launch by 3 months. Then they do NOTHING to promote the damn thing. Finally, they sell 3 and wonder why, don't release OS4.0, only include 2megs of Flash ram in a 330, design an SD card port that wont work with SD accesories. They blew the deal with CompUSA to get units in peoples hands. Sit on their asses for a year while Sony eats them for lunch. Fast forward 1 1/2 years later NO new hardware, No color units, NO OS4 release, NO support for AutoCard (still BETA for 1 year and counting), and a screen format no one supports. And the damn things are over priced as hell for a B&W unit.

I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Handera supporters that blindly kiss Handeras tender stupid ass and justify every stupid mistake this company has made. The problemn in IOWA is they are a bunch of engineer geeks with ZERO marketing/sales skills and a bunch of YES men kissing each others asses. They may have had the balls to try but they sure show no freaking brains in following through. Now H330 users get little or no support or respect from 3rd party applications, No OS4.0, No help from Handera to get 3rd party apps written. Screw them, they want to stay in business start by releaseing OS4 and getting some 3rd party apps to use the damn harware otherwise its just an expensive glorified 5 year old IIIxe PDA.

ummm... there were no SD accessories when the 330 was made. the SDIO standard was still just an idea.

>>Roll? Define "roll with the big dogs"? The stupid idiots screw up the Handera launch by 3 months....

Good Lord! Did one of those Iowa engineer geeks steal your girlfriend? Fire you? Drink your chocolate milk??

Ok, moron,
fact 1: HandEra 330s were available in all Sam's Clubs and in a some Wal-Marts.

fact 2: there marketing offices are only in Iowa, so don't blame Iowa. their tech offices are in Omaha, NE

By the way i should mention, i am not of your supposed hardcore handera supporters...I prefer Handspring products..i just take offense at how you blame Iowa.

Thank You.

I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Sony supporters that blindly repeat themselves (via cut and paste even) over and over on the same forum.

> What's wrong with you people? Why nearly all af
> you are attacking HandEra device ?

You need to realize that it is just one or two trolls that keep making the same ugly comments over and over again. Note that ugly is about all one could say, as feature-wise this device is right-on for what many on this site would like to see.

Do you also realize that it is one or two fanatical Handera puppets that worship every word and product out of Handera. They are the same ones that make excuses for the utter incompitence of that companies management and refuse to offer critisisim where it is clearly deserved.

Let them support curent users with a real OS update to OS4.1, work with developers to get 3rd party software working and then maybe someone will give their PDA's a second look. But as of now I must warn all potential users to buy elsewhere.

HandEra has always worked with 3rd party developers on software support. I have never seen anything to the contrary. Lack of an OS 4.1 update is the only main criticism I can think of. Where is there an example of incompetent management? Incompetence would be building 50 thousand of these if you couldn't get the orders for them.

I use 330 for 1.5 year, now have bought Clie NR70V... Thanks god I didn't sell 330 first. I thought NR70V will beat 330 easily - WRONG. I am reading a lot - mostly from Handera screen and on travel (and the power outlets are not borne on the trees). The only valuable difference - color (which is useful with backlight only) - is buried under a whole pile of flaws: no native application to use HiRes+ (why Sony made it after all? for cool numbers in press-releases? they absolutely do not use it...) , ****ty camera (why not to have 480x320??? almost the same price as 320x240 but way more application), keyboard hard to localize (hard wired code pages. lazy programmers?), and just 5 hours of continious uptime. And nonreplaceable battery. Period. Clie NR70V is just a nice toy (expensive though). Handera rules. And I do wait for color version... Hope it'll be as brilliant as 330 is. I do not care of its ugly design (330 is REALLY UGLY. Clie is just graceful...) - it is way more functional then any other palm device on the market. IMHO... Anybody wants to buy used Clie NR70V?

I dunno...the new Treo 90 looks pretty interesting. The smallest PDA available, with 16 MB of RAM, a color display with integrated flip-lid, an SD/MMC slot, and a built-in keyboard, for under $300. Not bad, IMHO.

look around and see what you can get with $300 and $350.

you get high res or QVGA transreflective instead of the lower screen quality of treo90, some even is a full blown multimedia capable device.

I don't know if the Treo 90 is *the* smallest Palm OS device, but it's definitely the smallest color one.

Only one PDA has integrated Bluetooth - the iPAQ 3870.

Mario
msmasitti@qwest.net

I am an American and strongly support American companies, but all things aside, I would never, EVER buy a PDA that is as ugly as thing brick is. I mean, its hideous!!! Wrap it in a better case thats pleasing to the eye and market it as something 'cool'. But this is just running on old steam... And the III form factor.

I agree with your statements. It is in the best interest of all to have as many vendors as possible.

You know, blind faith will not improve anything.

Liking American company is fine, but you gotta tell them straight that that thing is UGLY. Give them suggestions, feedback on how to improve it.
Consumers shouldnt take being spoon fed.
Otherwise we'll have nothing but broken down old primitive companies.

Being an American company is one thing, its good, but that doesnt give you the right to spit out something as ugly as that, we also have standards here you know.

Sorry, it's me again, it's serial not seral:).

What is to understand? They are a compant who produced some very nice hardware and decided to get into the PDA business. The TRGPro and Handera 330 are both nice units. However, they are in business to make money! If they had diversified and sold the TRGPro and the H330 to consumers and produced a follow-up machie in a timely fasion hey would bet king of the heap right now. As is stands they are a bunch of backassward, engineer types who could not sell water in the desert. The reason the Units are so plain is because under their geeky engineering principals asthetics are secondary to function. WRONG, esp in 21st cetury America. I can wrap a turn in nice marketing and info-mercials and sell a gazillion of em.

Second they are no longer the anything leader. They are in fact the biggest joke in PDA's homany H330 did they actually sell? As many as Sony sells in one day? They had Sony with a 1 year head start and did squat with it. They are arrogant, they are stupid and they ar no longer important. So who cares if they offer a H330c at this point? Actually they should worry more about what they are going to do now that they are out of the PDA business. Actually they have just look at their websit under "services" they are back to offering their engineering (not design) services in order to pay the bills. I guess they are calling it a night. I just wish the sineless bastards had the guts to call it and not leave thier users hanging. I mean how long are you dip****s gonna wait for OS4.0? or the infamous H330c? I am sure 90% of the posting about Handera is done by 5 guys who have their asses so far up Handeras ass its pathetic.

I think that many persistently ignore the importance of serial connectivity/ Windows NT compatibility to some businesses. I know several businesses that are unwilling to upgrade their machines from Windows NT (as it is working perfectly well for them); USB cradles would not work for users in such an environment.

Also, although I too am not impressed with the aesthetic design of the prototype, it must be remembered that it is just that: a prototype. It would be silly to make comments judging a private functional prototype as if it were a finalised commercial product.

But then, silliness is far from rare, isn't it?

If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1819-1892)

d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados

I agree with drac totally.

-Joel Waage

Yeah... yeah when everything fails, it's always the functionality vs. looks argument. I don't know how many "The HandEra is for the serious people who perfer function over looks" argument I have come across.

My question is... WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?!?? Let me guess...are they:

1.the bussiness executive types... no, because they're more image-conscious. It's better to impress the client by pulling out a sleek Sony(name recognition) Clie than a bulky HandEra(who?).

2.the medical professional...no, we have enough bulky things in our coats already. A small thin PDA like the m515 or the Clie will fit into the shirt pocket a whole lot better than the HandEra.

3.the geeky computer tech...yes, because it goes with their numerous other gadgets that they clipped onto their belts. Image? What image...

I heard that the most liked PDA by medical people is
Handera 330.

I don't like the ways some people discussed this new device. But their messages do reflect some of the opinions of
many consumers.

Whether they are right or they belong to the consumer
groups that Handera is trying to sell the devices too
is another matter.

In that sense, the current way to speak out might be
right. People might not speak out their honest opinion
if they need to register.

ted

Hey, I'm a medical person lots of us have Handeras (usually the ones who are more savvy and know what they want the thing to do for them). I have a 505 but like the 330. Our lab coats pockets are more than big enough to hold one. Some scrub front-pockets are a very tight fit (for those of us that frequent the O.R.) Some of my buddies swear by it. It is VERY functional. When you're looking for a tool to make your life easy(like holding a small library in your Palm) and nothing more, the 330 is certainly decent. Besides, when you need key info fast, who cares if it comes from a 330 or a Super-Clie?

I agree about having a medical reference library at your fingertips, but you can do that with either a palm m515 or with the Sony Clie's. There's not much that the HandEra can do that the Clie or the m515 cannot. So except for having 2 slots, why would you want to carry a bulky unit that will bulge and weigh your scrub pants/shirt, white coat, or your dress shirt down? You can't justified that having an extra slot is worth all that inconvience.

Well, there's also a voice recorder which a lot of medical people see as important. Otherwise, yes, you can get a thinner device. I don't think HandEra is going to release a thinner device like you want/describe (no CF slot). What would be the point, it would only compete with existing or soon to be existing Palm and Sony models. As it is, this device matches up nicely with the Zaurus or most Pocket PC models.

"WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?!?? Let me guess...are they: 1.the bussiness executive types... no [ ... ] 2.the medical professional...no [ ... ] 3.the geeky computer tech...yes"

4. pretty much any industry type application where you need inexpensive 802.11b access, mobile bar code and magnetic card scanning, mobile sales, etc. That is where the bulk of HandEra's sales go. Of course, those industries probably aren't going to put up the extra bucks for color when it is not necessary.

"Second they are no longer the anything leader."...

"You can't justified that having an extra slot is worth all that inconvience."

Yes, you can in fact. What other PalmOS PDA can you use in that environment and still be able to use helpful hardware like a laser barcode scanner (meds, and patient ID's, or stock tags), or Wireless ethernet, will still having your data on a second card, and leaving the serial port free for a keyboard? A Palm? A Sony? A HandSpring? No. There's only one other companies that can do that, Symbol (with models having wireless and Barcode built in rather than optional on the 330). No one goes around yapping that the Symbol PDA's are ugly. The point is, you put this type of fuctionality into your current favorite PDA, and it too will take a hit on aesthetics and size.

What other PalmOS PDA can you charge or give continuous power to via a DC port on the side, while it's on a keyboard or connected to a GPS?

What other PalmOS PDA can today use large storage options other than HandEra's other CF PDA, the TrgPro. You might not need 1Gig (others I know do), but how about 500MB, 256MB? Still tough to get in other card forms.

There are PLENTY of things the 330 is still the only PDA to be able to do. Besides the above, where's the true landscape mode on the Sony NR-70? Where's the voice recording? Where's the AAA fallback (alkaline or rechargeable) from L-ion when you're in Timbuktu?

And there will be plenty more such items in their future hardware and software.

With HandEra the "beauty" is in the details, and functionality. If you have other criteria for a PDA, then quietly move along to other PDA's and be joyful that your PDA platform is broad enough to encompass market niches *you* hadn't considered. That's a Strength not a weakness.

It'll make you seem a whole lot more intelligent than the resounding gongs above who're speaking, rather loudly, on things they've revealed that they are completely ignorant of.

"I can wrap a turn in nice marketing and info-mercials and sell a gazillion of em."

How about you do us a favor and start with 50,000 and we can get this thing out the door ;-)

> My experience with Sony has been so bad

Not everyone can enjoy/understand the good stuff, just choose what suits you.

To me its not a question of black and white.

I still think all the above sarcastic opinions are valid, even the "Charming" ones.

I use a 330 ("serious user") but I could also get really sarcastic about handera marketing (not design for me, but their marketing...). I would want them to be really successfull, but the appropriate clever action is missing...

Example: In german online-forums, there is hundreds of opinions about palm, and ONE opinion about Handera, which is done by the enthusiastic user who also keeps up the german handera-website.

So I can understand that even handera-loyal users get sarcastic.

In spite of that, I also agree to the "functionality"-argument. I had a stylish sony, and I changed back to Handera, because of the accessories and the 2 slots.
I got gps, palmpix and ... for little dollars from ebay. This is worth more to me personally than design...

What I was astonished about was: One year ago, they mainly got admiration for their pda; now, they mostly get sarcasm. Not to value this, but I think its interessting...

You know, I seem to recall hearing discussions like this several years ago. Back then it was about Commodore. They had the best PC out there (The Amiga), but failed because they couldn't sell water in a desert either. Unfortunately, Handera seems to be doing the same thing. I own a HE330, and I tell anyone who asks that if the HE330 had color, I would never need to buy another PDA. I would rather be able to DO THINGS with the PDA than care about what the thing looks like. I think the look of the HE330 is interesting, but certainly not pretty, but that's OK. I didn't buy the thing for looks. My only gripe is the software vendors are ignoring the device. Some have stepped up and offered support for it, but most haven't.

And I don't buy the size arguement either. A coworker of mine recently switched from a Palm V to a Toshiba model similar to the new e310 (but half the RAM). That thing is UGLY compared to any Palm, including the Handera. But it does what he wants it to do, so he switched (MS Office compatibility was a big deciding factor). I hear him gripe about not being able to do some things that are simple for PalmOS, but he still has the device, so he must like it...even though it is far more bulky than his old Palm V.

As for looks of the prototype, I think it kind of looks like a Palm 705. Which is OK for me. I just want to play with the new device before making a purchase, as I want to make sure the screen looks right.

You are right that from 'marketing' point of view there is quite a lot we can wish from Handera. But again - let's do not forget that they are small company, and probably are not trying to compete Sony or Palm in this area. And maybe they feel 'successful' enough - again 'quality <-> quantity'...

I'll also be happy if there are more news about their products - mainly application support for the advantages of 240*320 screen. But even now - the majority of the applications work quite well, and definitely do not look worse than on any Palm.

Let's hope that they will deserve admirations again;)

SAS

Where are the responses from Handera on these discussions? Why will they not post and offer some insight into what is going on, get some feedback from cutomers. Its as if they lost interest in their PDA a year ago. I know they monitor these groups, Chuck? Mike Waldron where are you.

>>I seem to recall hearing discussions like this several years ago. Back then it was about Commodore. They had the best PC out there (The Amiga), but failed because they couldn't sell water in a desert either.

Exactly. And when i hear people argue about Mac vs. Windows i just want to scream: Amiga was literally years ahead. Anybody out there edit video with yr PC or Mac in 1987? No? The first true multi-media computer.

I have to agree I had an A500 and a 1000 and that OS was way ahead of anything at the time and most OS's up until Windows 98 or so. True multitasking, sound, video, heck it was the first "multimedia" machine.

Remember the Toaster? And Commodore blew it too. That's what happens when you have a company full of engineers and no sales/marketing team.

SONY ROCKS ! CLIE ROCKS ! hAnDErA ? What is that ?

Sony would rock IF it had color screens that weren't so washed out looking, buttons that actually are visible, a more stable OS, cheaper prices, etc. As far as non-washed out color screens, I think Handspring wins with its amazingly tiny, but viewable color-screened Treo 90 thats only $300. At least the Treo 90 has a SD slot compared to the more expensive Memory Stick thing.

> Sony would rock IF it had color screens that weren't so washed out looking,

You cannot be serious ! SONY CLIE's color hi-res(+)screen is the BEST of the best ! tReO ? trEO 90 ?!! 12-bit washed-out low-res screen ??! Even Gameboy an do better than that.

have you seen an NR70? those screens are amazing, and the T655 screen is supposed to be even nicer...the handera would rock if it were thinner....plus its not very easy on the eyes. maybe it has long battery life.

"If only SONY's soft grafitti were implemented as effectively as Handera's."

In 80% of applications, the minimized graffiti area on the Handera went unused. Sony's method is more stable, and has seen FAR more support from the developer community. Many of the major applications now support Hi-Res+.

"If only SONY had I/O options to rival Handera's CF slot."

Sony does (at least the NR series does): http://www.xigma.jp/02/clie_NR70_CF/img/2_big_w.jpg

"SONY doesn't even have a full size keyboard option on their T600 or NR70 units."

Yes, this is a problem.

"If only Handera's design and form factor were more seemly."

Agreed. If they're going to insist on a built-in CF slot, howevre, the mcahine will always be brick. That's the downfall of the larger CF format. You'll never get a T-series or m5xx form factor with a slot like that (thank goodness for Memory Stick and SD).

Dear mashoutposse:

Thanks for the SONY CF jacket website. More information on whether and how this expansion option could be used on US or European models of the NR70 would be greatly appreciated. Earlier reports seemed to indicate that this might not be possible. In comparison to the Handera 330, I would be looking primarily for both a POTS modem and a wireless modem.

In terms of optimal use of the soft grafitti, I admire how Handera came out with their model and included QuickOffice software that supported their hi-res soft grafitti. Particularly impressive was QuickSheet's support of spreadsheets in landscape mode. Iambic's TinySheet moved quickly to support the SONY version of hi-res+, but they still don't do landscape mode. I hope SONY takes the initiative more in the future.

Thanks, Robrecht

Have you seen or heard about the Handspring Treo 90's screen? The review at Pen Computing says that indoors its screen is a little more than TWICE as BRIGHT as the Sony NR70V, Compaq iPAQ, and Palm m515! Outdoors, it says its a LITTLE dimmer than those mentioned above. The review also says that the "Treo 90 appears to have depth as if the icons are actually plastic letters in a nearly-clear wax substrate." CNet says that this about the 12-bit screen compared to a 16-bit screen: "You may be able to spot the difference if you look carefully at photos, but otherwise, you're not likely to notice." The Treo 90 is the lightest color Palm ever (4 oz.), and is very small and portable. CNet gives the Treo 90 an editor's choice award. Shawn Barnett from Pen Computing predicts that it will very popular. The Treo 90 is only $300 compared to the $350-$600 Sony Clies. I wouldn't say that the 90 is unheard of to you now! I'm not saying that the Sonys are bad, but it's just that the Treo 90 is certainly comparable in many aspects. Here are the links to the reviews:

http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/Pen45a/treo90.html

CNet: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q2AC52701

-Joel Waage

"In 80% of applications, the minimized graffiti area on the Handera went unused."

?? Ya, but virtually 100% of High-Res ones used it. The same will be the case for Sony HR+ apps. And yet, what percentage of apps out there currently use this already on a Sony? Let's just start with the built in apps. How many of the built in apps make full use of the high-resolution *and* virtual graffiti, vs. all of them on a HandEra?

"Sony's method is more stable, and has seen FAR more support from the developer community. Many of the major applications now support Hi-Res+"

Cite?

Sony does (at least the NR series does): http://www.xigma.jp/02/clie_NR70_CF/img/2_big_w.jpg

That's a picture of hardware. To validate, provide a link of devices that have driver support. Every I/O accessory on HandEra's site has driver support (and when it comes to ethernet and WiFi many more non-listed cards will function under their generic drivers).

"(thank goodness for Memory Stick and SD)."

Now if you only had two slots, and an equal number of i/O expansion options (with PalmOS drivers).

>"If they're going to insist on a built-in CF slot, howevre, the mcahine will always be brick."<

Not necessarily. If the guts could be miniaturized a little, the SD slot could be moved to the side, since with CF onboard, you wouldn't need it for I/O functions. This would make a thinner unit possible because the slots wouldn't have to be "stacked" on top of each other.

If it must be brick, the N760C form factor is still a good shape that fits nicely in the hand, and is thick enough to "stack" the slots one above the other, if you move the IR port over a little bit.

Just my $0.02 =)

Sean

> The 330 was also unstable. The voice recorder often froze, requiring soft resets.

Sounds like you never upgraded the OS from the first version that came with it.

This may be a repeat as I may have indavertantly sent a truncated post. I use both a Handera 330 and a Palm m515. All my real work is done on the Handera, and I use the Palm only for pleasant colors. My reasons for using the Handera as my base unit: power management (in over 1 hour of continuous typing, I lose only 2-3% of battery power, and none if I have the charger plugged in while typing), key programs that support hi-res and virtual Graffiti (Wordsmith, QuickOffice, Bonsai), data integrity (over 6 megs backed up on CF using bulit-in software in less than 20 SECONDS, and in about 45 seconds on SD-and restore is almost as fast and perfect). (Incidentally,Palm m515 backs up 6 megs on SD in 3 minutes using additional cost 3rd party software.) Would love a color 330, and could care less about design factors.

Thank you for coming clean instead of completely glorifying it. All you Handera ass kissers should take a lesson from this guy.

Is it too much to ask for a device with as much functionality as the Handera 330 with a quicker card reader and processor that doesn't look like a cellular phone of 1986???

BTW- Is it really necessary for SD and CF slots if it can't support SDIO???
One more thing- Make the thing a little more pleasing to the eye!!! I understand that the people who buy this device are looking for functionality, but MY GOD!!! It's like going into a business meeting with shorts with a Hawaiian shirt and some shiny Iv