Comments on: Palm OS 5 Goes Golden Master

After many months of development, the final version of Palm OS 5 has been sent by PalmSource to the licensees. Now that the operating system is complete, it is up to the licensees to develop and release handhelds to run it. Of course, these are already close to being ready, based on early versions of OS 5 but there is no way at this point to accurately predict when the first of these will be available. Steve Sakoman, the CTO of PalmSource, would only say that he had seen the time between an operating system going Golden Master and a handheld release be as short as a month and a half.
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Sounds good

terrysalmi @ 6/10/2002 8:23:08 AM #
Sounds like a good first step - It will be interesting to see the combination of features everyone decides to use in their Handhelds - and to see what features the Licensees are going to come up with next!

RE: Sounds good
swinginjonny @ 6/10/2002 12:43:53 PM #
It sounds like they have put a lot of thought into making things easy for licensees. That should save some on R&D and help keep prices lower than they would have been. I'm excited. True, there isn't much that is totally new but it makes things that are now high-end more accessible to everyone. It's a good step forward.

(Self-confessed Palm Geek)
Ed
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:37:05 PM #
Was it tough to keep certain info with ya? ;o)

Great article.

RE: Sounds good
Palm_Otaku @ 6/10/2002 3:22:25 PM #
It is very gratifying to see the OS5 Golden Master shipping to licensees on schedule, and it will be very interesting to see what new devices will be forthcoming!

I'm hoping that with integrated Bluetooth modules now shipping in quantity for less than the "critical" $5 price point (in fact TI recently had a new release that their new Bt chip will be <$4) that this will be as common as IrDA is now!

RE: Sounds good
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 5:33:03 AM #
Palm will definitely integrate Bluetooth. Since OS 5 supports wi-fi I wonder if that's in the works as well
RE: Sounds good
bcombee @ 6/11/2002 2:10:42 PM #
802.11b integration was probably pushed by Symbol, who already builds Palm OS devices with built in 802.11b for industrial applications. I'm sure HandEra, who make CF-capable devices, and who has a lot of design wins due to their 802.11b CF support, also encouraged this development.

--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
Bluetooth
Palm_Otaku @ 6/11/2002 2:20:03 PM #
Just to clarify: I hope that the relatively cheap cost of the Bluetooth hardware components will mean that the new OS5 devices that are in the pipeline will include integrated Bt.

It should be standard on high-end devices this fall, and nearly ubiquitous on Palm Powered Devices by this time next year.

RE: Sounds good?? Battery life??
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 10:44:58 PM #
I see that the new OS 5 devices will likely consume about half as much power as the Pocket PCs. This worries me. I am very happy with being able to easily change out my AAAs whenever battery power fades. I can back up my TRGpro's entire set of data to the CF card in a few seconds and restore whenever necessary, either the complete data set or file by file. I can go for months without synchronizing data with a regular computer. I like it this way; I hope this can continue. My TRGpro is extremely reliable and I will stay with it for the foreseeable future.

New handhelds

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 8:24:43 AM #
It will be interesting to see the hardware that companies release for OS 5, I'm increasingly worried that in the pursuit of whizz bang technology, these companies will price themselves out of the Market!

I'm chugging along on my m500 that I bought for 200 GBP (300 USD), and at the time the 505 was about 100 GBP (150 USD) more...however the new 515 is even more expensive than the 505! Similarly I've now seen the Sony NR70V in London going for 430 (650 USD)!!! The Peg 615 was around 300 GBP...a lot less. At this rate I'll NEVER upgrade.

When you look at other areas (mobile phones, walkmans etc.), these are often superceded by a superior model for around the same price (or less). It looks like Palm handhelds seem to be competing with Pocket PC's in one area anyway - price!

RE: New handhelds
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:10:51 AM #
I would imagine Palms first new m515 like unit with an ARM processor will feature a 320x320 screen and be priced about $449 - $499 USD. Sony's units with similar features would clock in about the same, but if they produce "non-typical" units only with swivel screens, little cameras built in etc. you can expect the amount to go higher.
RE: New handhelds
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 10:47:48 AM #
For what it is worth I think this feature creep and cost inflation in the PDA format to be a problem. I have a 16meg monocolor pda that fits my needs for now and into the forseeable future. The market for these devices may be getting saturated. Maybe we need to take the next step -there is a new class device comming on the market that does get me excited and is where I want to go next.
That is a Tablet PC. This is a blend of the PDA and laptop that is very usefull. A larger but still lightweight and more readable color touch screen with hard drive storage with builtin 802.11b for wirelesss Web surfing off a network access point and MS Office type applications both at home and outside is going to be the next big thing in my opinion.
RE: New handhelds
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:44:29 AM #
While I agree that Palm handhelds haven't progressed as fast as they should have for a couple years, I don't see the price creep that you are talking about. The Palm Vx was released in October of 1999. It cost $400. The m515 was released a month or so ago. It offers twice as much memory as the Vx, an SD slot, and a color screen. It also costs $400.
Price Creep? Not really...
hotpaw4 @ 6/10/2002 1:35:22 PM #
The Pilot 5000 was $399.99 retail when it was introduced in 1996. So was a Palm V when it was introduced. So was a Clie t615c before the closeout pricing. And an m515 today is also around $399.95. Where's the creep? (unless you count specialty units with cameras, mp3 players, cellular phones or other radios...)

RE: New handhelds
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:38:00 PM #
Yes I do count those "specialty items" as part of the creep. The newest sony is $600 and I hear the new OS5 PDA's will have a hefty price also. For me to spend over $500 I want something that is really usable for viewing pctures and movies and surfing Web sites plus be more portable than a laptop. The multimedia PDA's are trying to do what should be done by a Tablet PC. For PDA functions my $200 palm will work just fine for now and the next couple of years.
RE: New handhelds
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:52:16 PM #
Tablet PCs are a dead end. Size matters. Take a look at the next article and read all the complaints about the HandEra, which is about 20% of the size of a tablet PC. They sound nice in theory but once you actually have to start carrying one around, you realize what a huge hassle it is. There is no way to put a tablet PC in your pocket. You either have to have a backpack or always have it in your hands. Soon, when you are leaving, you start asking yourself, "Do I really think I'll use it today?" Pretty soon, it never leaves your desk.

Get a Palm, which gives you maximum convenience with OK usefulness. Or get a laptop, which gives you maximum usefulness with OK convenience. A Tablet PC is the worst of both of them.

RE: New handhelds
sub_tex @ 6/10/2002 3:33:59 PM #
quote:

"The Palm Vx was released in October of 1999. It cost $400. The m515 was released a month or so ago. It offers twice as much memory as the Vx, an SD slot, and a color screen. "

I find that pretty sad. As much as i love palm, really, in 3 years, we've made color better than 256 colors and added an expansion slot.

Ain't a heck of a lot in additions.

I think the aggressive roadmap that has been put into play because of devices from Handera and Sony should have been there from the beginning.

Becasue when it boils down to it, all of these pdas are exactly the same. Some have smoother fonts and color, but aside from physical appearance, none offer functionality better than the others do (the Handera and NR70 aside).

RE: New handhelds
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:15:56 PM #
I have been a Palm fan for a number of years (Palm 111,Palm111c, PalmV, PalmVx and now m515). My only complaint is that every time their is a new model their seems to be a serious flaw with the economics on cradle and accessories. You have to be kitted out again with another cradle, another car charger,new size stylus pens. This is getting to be an expensive exercise for any professional who duplicates the accessories for office/home.
When are you guys going to settle down and do somthing intelligent and make the accesories at least standardised in some form.
For me no Golden Master unless it uses the standard accessories I am now using with the 515. Bet you even the leather cover with the stylus slot will be a different size.
Result wait a couple of years before considering an upgrade.

Message to Sony and Palm...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:01:44 AM #
Palm and Sony:

I am very excited. As an owner of a Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Professional, Palm V, Palm IIIc, and Palm m515, and (for my wife) a Sony T615 I am very excited for the ARM handhelds that will be arriving late this summer or fall.

My intention is simple: I WILL BUY the best SLIM (ie. Palm V like) design with a 320x320 (I would prefer 320x480) color screen, FASTEST ARM processor, flash ROM (because we all know OS 6 is where its at, but don't get me wrong... in all truth I'll buy a OS 6 unit then too...), lots of memory, and a decent expansion card system.

Palm let me make this clear: I HAVE ALWAYS been loyal. The Sony was for my wife, but I have been jealous. You can't screw this up now, because if you give us some ugly m515 type unit with a 320x320 but dim screen, only 16 megs of RAM, and the slowest ARM processor you can find... and if Sony gives me a 320x480 screen beauty of a screen, 32 megs of RAM, and a much faster ARM processor... I WILL switch. Get it right guys because I want to stay loyal, and I want to stay with SD cards.

The time is now folks... "Palm Generation 2" is here. My money is at the ready. Now who is going to be man enough to saddle up to the plate with a unit worthy of my dollar?

Have a lovely day...

RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
terrysalmi @ 6/10/2002 10:24:26 AM #
Boy - I wish I could afford to upgrade like you can.

RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
Token User @ 6/10/2002 10:40:35 AM #
Dear Sony, Palm, Handspring, Acer, Handera, etc.

I have owned a PalmPilot, a PalmPilot Pro (now with my wife), use a Palm VII for development, and carry a Visor Deluxe as my daily driver.

Yes, I am a power user (because after all EVERYONE who reads PIC must by default be a power user).

I want a device that is fast, and has the memory to store my notes and calendar information. I want to add accessories to my Palm to expand it, and have the OS have support for those accessories.

I do not want to be forced to upgrade every 6 months.

I am looking forward to OS5, but am quite happy with 3.01H, and 3.5, and will probably wait for 6.0.

That is the ZEN of Palm. Simplicity. You get what you need and do it efficiently instead of including everything and the kitchen sink.

My existing devices do everything I need. Colour would be nice, and the ability to hook into my Bluetooth phone would be great too, but they are not show stoppers. While I am a POWER USER, I am also a consumer, and rapid release of devices outdated every 3 weeks is keepng my away from upgrading at the moment.

I'll be waiting for a stable OS, in a platform form factor that looks like it'll be around for awhile.

Roll on the new OS's, but please make them stable - THEN I'll upgrade.

Token.

RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 10:48:47 AM #
Hmm, I've had Pilot 1000, Pilot 5000, Palm III, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm IIIc, Palm m505, Palm m515... all bought new - gadget freak to the max! :-)


RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:13:00 AM #
Hey Terry - that's what Ebay is all about!
RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:32:06 AM #
There's no such thing as loyalty when it comes to electronics. As a true gadget geek you're loyalty should lie with who contiually pushes the envelope in terms of innovation and design. That use to be Palm and now its Sony. Plain and simple. No one is going to hold it against you if you make the jump. Quite frankly i've been very disappointed with Palm hardware. Not only was the m505 a disappointment, it took them a year to "IMPROVE" it with something that it should have been in the first place.

So swallow your pride and make the jump. Be a fan of good quality PDA's. Thats the only way things get better for consumers.

RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:35:54 AM #
Glad to see a few people agree with me (I was the one who started this "creeping prices" line of thought). While I'm a gadget freak myself, I can't see why the prices seem to be jumping so much. I've bought about 6 or 7 minidisc players over the last 5 years, each one about half the size of the previous one, twice as long battery life, and about the same price or cheaper than the last! My Nokia 6310 cost the same as my old Nokia 6210, yet it has built in bluetooth (that crankily talks to the Palm bluetooth SD card), and a few other extra bells and whistles, so I'm not sure why Sony & Palm handhelds seem to meet each improvement in technology with a healthy price jump...maybe sales are so bad they're just trying to fleece the early adopters of each new release for as much as they can. For me, when they start selling a reasonable replacement for my M500 at around the same price, maybe then I'll think about an upgrade!
Vince
RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
ardiri @ 6/10/2002 12:26:50 PM #
Hmm, I've had Pilot 1000, Pilot 5000, Palm III, Palm V, Palm Vx, Palm IIIc, Palm m505, Palm m515... all bought new - gadget freak to the max! :-)

still got them all? :)

my collection stands at 35 these days - mainly pre-release beta units, and stuff i got for testing/preview. all in all - i still dont use a Palm for day-to-day purposes. yes, i am sick.

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

Personal Collections
Palm_Otaku @ 6/10/2002 1:57:37 PM #
Aaron - well, you beat me (only 20-something)... How about taking a couple minutes and posting a picture of this most impressive collection?! (Um, don't forget to "black-bar" any non-released NDA-covered devices ;)

Heh, I'll have to send the same request to Yamada "Hacker Dude-san" Tatsushi, who may have the largest personal collection of PalmOS devices at present...

--- Dan

RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 3:33:07 PM #
so, the reward for AArdiri setting loose the very first Trojan Horse into the Palm Community is these device companies send him units for nothing?

Is there NO justice? :)

ebaying
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 5:02:34 PM #
When you ebay your older PDA how do you make sure that the buyer doesn't get a hold of your important secret info?
RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
dsm363 @ 6/10/2002 5:06:47 PM #
I believe you just need to do a hard reset but you might want to double check. Instructions are found in you instruction manual or on the web.

RE: Message to Sony and Palm...
Kesh @ 6/10/2002 6:39:14 PM #
Yep. A hard reset will completely wipe out the contents of the internal memory, and reset it to factory defaults.

I still don't know the answer... OS 6....

big_raji @ 6/10/2002 9:09:39 AM #
So, if I buy a Palm OS5 handheld, can I upgrade it to OS6 later?

I'm definitely going to buy an OS5 handheld anyways, the difference is I want to know if I should buy an OS5 handheld that I know I'm going to replace when OS6 comes out, or if I should wait for an OS5 handheld that I'll be sticking with and upgrading to OS6...

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: I still don't know the answer... OS 6....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:12:52 AM #
PalmSource has said yes as long as the unit has Flash ROM but even then it will be up to the individual company to support the transition. Palm seems willing and has commented as such, but Sony is more quiet... but they do have Flash ROM.

Sony innovation

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:31:13 AM #
It will be interesting to see what Sony does with an ARM powered device and when they will announce one. I wonder which processor they will commit to - TI, Motorola, or Intel's XScale? XScale looks like somewhat of a bust so far given the benchmarks of the new Toshiba e740 Pocket PC, though it might be a different story running PalmOS.

The Upgrade Equations

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:31:33 AM #
1. Speed(66MhzMOTOR +OS4Soft)> Speed(ARM + OS4Soft)

If 1 is FALSE THEN UPGRADE to ARM_PALM
If 1 is TRUE THEN CONSIDER Equation 2

2. 2*Price(66MhZMOTOR) > Price(ArmPalm + New Software)
If TRUE THEN Upgrade to ARM_PALM
If FALSE THEN Consider 66MhzMOTOR

KEY
MOTOR = Dragonball based 66MHz processor
ARM = ARM based OS5

At last I have synthesised my thoughts on what to do for the initial release of OS5 ARM_PALMS.


RE: The Upgrade Equations
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:59:02 AM #
Ahh. very sensible. 1 thing though - speed of OS 6 ('native' ARM apps) will be geater then OS 5 apps. And if you buy a OS 5 device with flash ROM, you can upgrade.
RE: The Upgrade Equations
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 4:11:38 PM #
I guess then the key question is CAN WE FLASH OS6 into OS5 machines?
RE: The Upgrade Equations
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:18:52 AM #
Yes - Palm has said their OS 5 devices with flash rom will be upgradable to OS 6. In fact, theres no reason why all OS 5 devices with flash rom should not be upgradable (in theory). I have an old Palm III upgraded to OS 4.1 - it will be the same scenario with ARM devices. It's that switch in processor architecture (from 68k to ARM) that is the only real dividing line (that, and of course, whether the device has flash rom).
RE: The Upgrade Equations
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 5:29:30 AM #
once you made it to ARM, you are set for a long time. It's going to be a very long time before we see 64 bit itaniums in PDA's.

Real glad...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 10:46:45 AM #
I bought PALM stock on Friday for $1.13... up 20% already...!
RE: Real glad...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:01:38 AM #
I have faith in Palm, despite the trolls.
RE: Real glad...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:53:33 PM #
> I have faith in Palm, despite the trolls.

I have faith in capitalism and choice, despite the zen of palm orcs.

RE: Real glad...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 3:24:02 PM #
Based on this announcement, all trolls are hereby ordered to go back under the bridge...now!

Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:32:27 AM #
I am through with PDA only devices. Now that I have a Treo, I am hooked to Smartphones. I am dying to see what Handspring or Palm (if they really come out with one this time) come up with with OS 5.
RE: Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:55:20 AM #
I sent back the Treo for a Pocket PC Phone Edition. Wait until you see it, the difference is HUGE.
RE: Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:25:14 PM #
Yes, the difference is huge: PocketPC Smartphone is huge and battery life "sucks."

I think that sums it up.

RE: Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:27:54 PM #
Buy a Samsung i300 if you want a decent smartphone at a great price. I don't miss my m515 at all.
RE: Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 4:45:22 AM #
Why a smart phone IS NOT A GOOD idea.
If your Palm is bluetooth enabled you can always change the Palm as long as you have a small blue tooth aka Ericcson etc. All this without changing the telephone which can stay hidden in some jacket pocket while you surf the internet. I know the disadvantage is carrying two bits of equipment.... Oh well I guess I would like my GPS unit to be built in as well as the 2Meg Pixel minumum digital camera all into one device .. we live in hope.
RE: Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 5:25:53 AM #
yeah tap a phonenumber on your palm addressbook and then juggle around to get your phone as it dials the number. Not very smart.
RE: Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like
fleegle @ 6/11/2002 9:24:58 AM #
The benefit of a combination VCR/TV is it takes up less space. However, when one of the components failed, you were out both a TV and a VCR while it was being repaired. So, overall it is a bad idea.

The same thing applies to smartphones.

RE: Wanna see what da smartphones gonna be like
Palm_Otaku @ 6/11/2002 2:25:15 PM #
yeah tap a phonenumber on your palm addressbook and then juggle around to get your phone as it dials the number. Not very smart.

Nah, that's when you pop out your Bt headset :)

One of the drawbacks of the component-ized approach is the number of devices you have to recharge...

Palm OS5 Devices $350 and up

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:51:25 AM #
I saw the new pricing models at a conference, we're all in for a shock, the prices will be raised on all Palm OS 5 devices to at least $350. Most people agreed that this was good for the OEMs, but it will make it very easy for users to switch to Pocket PC.
RE: Palm OS5 Devices $350 and up
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:02:28 PM #
I don't know what conference this was but they must have done a terrible job of explaining the roll out of OS 5 to you.

Both OS 4 and OS 5 run at least 80% of the same applications. At this point, OS 4 runs more than OS 5 does. This means that OS 5 won't kill off OS 4. There will still be inexpensive handhelds for sale running OS 4 and even OS 3 for a while. Maybe years.

OS 5 will be for the high end. The people who demand 360 x 360 screens and mp3 players. The people who'll pay over $350 for a PDA. Everyone else will pay less and get an OS 4 or 3 one.

RE: Palm OS5 Devices $350 and up
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:53:59 PM #
I think we'll really be seeing just the opposite. Price (obviously) has not been a major factor in the PDA marketplace. There is quite a bit of market willing to pay a lot of money for 'do-all' handhelds. I think the fact that the Palm OS is so easy to develop for (from my experience), the ease-of-use of the OS, and the deep mindshare that Palm has will actually see a reversal of sorts. People will be looking at these more multimedia friendly Palm devices and saying 'maybe it's time I bought a Palm.'
RE: Palm OS5 Devices $350 and up
Palm_Otaku @ 6/11/2002 2:27:18 PM #
Price (obviously) has not been a major factor in the PDA marketplace

Actually, the lion's share of the PDA market is in the entry-level devices (something like >80% for <$200).

PPC: In yo' face!! PalmOS: Just in time....

sandbuck @ 6/10/2002 11:52:56 AM #
When I read this, I was tempted to let fly with the overused "PPC is dead" rhetoric. But PPC is far from dead yet. More importantly though, PalmSource is very much alive! They went right to the brink under Yankowski, with his propane tanks, bad real-estate deals and general incompetence. But the PalmSource strategy with OS5 and OS6 has been right on the mark.

A lot now depends on the new hardware that Palm rolls out. Their enterprise focus should not preclude them from adding more memory, hi-res, and multi-media to the next 5-series devices. Sony added mp3, 66Mhz, and 16MB RAM to the T-series with fair battery life. Palm should be able to build the next M5xx around the power-efficient ARM processors, add Sony's features and keep the same battery life.

The Sony feature set (and bluetooth :) ) on a 5-series for $450 will ensure the health and dominance of PalmOS, and move PPC further into the niche arena.

Pocket PC time
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:53:56 AM #
Egad-Palm is making Pocket PC clones now. Way to go Palm.
RE: PPC: In yo' face!! PalmOS: Just in time....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:58:16 AM #
You don't speak for all of us Palm users. I'm very dissapointed with both their marketing and OS 5. I've seen Palm's Gina Clark mimic all of Microsoft's marketing and it's clear they're trying to mimic the Pocket PC with capabilities.

Palm-the "me too" company.

RE: PPC: In yo' face!! PalmOS: Just in time....
sandbuck @ 6/10/2002 1:04:50 PM #
What are you dissapointed about? As I understand it, OS 5 & 6 do not mean the end of simple, more economical devices. But the community now has the option building high-performance hardware demanded by enterprise users.

How is this anything other than win-win?

PPC Idiots

abosco @ 6/10/2002 12:46:24 PM #
You PocketPC idiots don't seem to understand that Palm isn't trying to "MIMIC" the PPCs. They are just making a better system and you jackoffs can't handle that you spent $500 to get the "latest and greatest" system only to find that it's a bust. The Palm OS has the PPC OS beat in every category now including speed, ease of use, and software available. If Palm can keep the prices under control, their marketshare and profits will rise.

(Just a little prediction by me but I think that the first handheld using OS 5 will be Palm and I think it's going to have m515 form, 32 mb memory, 132+ processor, color screen, and while still maintaining the battery life of a week of normal use. Expect great things from Sony too.)

-Bosco

RE: PPC Idiots
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:30:59 PM #
Bosco doesn't speak for all of us. I'm about to buy a few hundred PDAs and sadly Palm took too long, and now that they're just making Pocket PCs now, the choice is easy. I'm getting a Pocket PC, my office will want better Outlook and Office support, so this clenches the deal. Buh-Bye.
RE: PPC Idiots
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:36:55 PM #
Shame PocketPCs are at 400+ MHZ now.
RE: PPC Idiots
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:54:05 PM #
Do your research. Palm OS 5 and the Pocket PC will run on the same ARM core based processors. The days when you can brag about MHz are over.
PPC trolls and their continuing FUD...
Palm_Otaku @ 6/10/2002 2:15:05 PM #
Shame PocketPCs are at 400+ MHZ now

You don't say....

The truth: PocketPC2k2 is limited to the Intel ARM processor family and the latest word is that 400MHz XScale devices won't be shipping until the end of July at the earliest. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Fortunately, the PalmOS family of devices have the flexibility to choose from three different families of ARM processors: TI's OMAP, Motorola's MX1 and Intel XScale.

--- Dan

RE: PPC Idiots
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:33:46 PM #
...true, except you can purchase the alledge vaporware 400mHz Xscale device on the store already.
RE: PPC Idiots
Palm_Otaku @ 6/10/2002 2:59:16 PM #
Which 400MHz XScale PPC device can you purchase now? According to the following links, the Fujitsu-Siemens LOOX delivery is pushed back to end of July because Intel is trying to resolve "power and performance issues" of their XScale.

http://www.loox.org/
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1445

RE: PPC Idiots
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 3:51:51 PM #
You all are so idiot. Instead of using the unit that suits you better, you stay discussing wich machine is the better. The Palm is certainly much better for PIM and also a very good word processor and game machine. If you like Poxket PCs, use it, but don't forget that if wasn't Palm they wouldn't even exist and if someone has copied somethin, this person is Bill Gates.

PSAP

RE: PPC Idiots
abosco @ 6/10/2002 3:59:26 PM #
Thanks for clarifying that, Pops. Were just having a small discussion on how the PPC jackoffs will have no more bragging rights about more mhz, video, or picture capability. They are just simply beaten and that was the original point that I was trying to make. If I see one more PPC fan start talking about their mhz, I'm goona flip.

Just one more thing that could break any more confusion. PPCs are limited to 400 mhz. Palms are NOT, I repeat, NOT limited to 200 mhz. Palms can have up to 200 mhz processors OR MORE. Which means they can even amp it up to 400 in the future, which would completely blow the PPCs out of the water (considering 33 mhz dragonball is faster than the 100-some mhz ipaqs). Plus, Palm isn't limited to making high-end devices. In the OS 5 has twice the battery life article, it was said Palm could make a 33 mhz Arm. Get a grip, stop trashing.

-Once again, Bosco

RE: PPC Idiots
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 4:11:24 PM #
e740: at $795 (current high bid on eBay with one day to go), it's a steal at twice the price.
XScale problems
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 5:26:47 PM #
e740: at $795 (current high bid on eBay with one day to go), it's a steal at twice the price.

Toshiba is jumping the gun releasing this device - it is benchmarking poorly and Intel has stated that MicroSoft needs to patch PPC2k2 to work properly with the 400MHz XScale (i.e. it's not "ready for prime-time"). This is presumably why the other PPC licensees are waiting until late July to release their new devices.

Hopefully Toshiba will provide a patch for whichever suckers decide to purchase this half-baked device, but as an e570 owner, I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for any support from Toshiba...

RE: PPC Idiots
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:52:39 PM #
Don't forget, the PPC NEEDS the MHz to run "fast", while the Palm can run faster using the new ARM processors. But who cares if PPC's run faster with a 400 MHz processor, if you can't use it for more than 4 hours at a time. Ever try using the PPC with any kind of wireless accessory? Better hope you've got your charger with you.

T655c

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:57:11 PM #
why would sony announce a OS4 PDA on june 25th??? Is there any possibility that this will be the first OS5 pda???
RE: T655c
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:08:00 PM #
Ohhh my.
You got a point. Its possible.
RE: T655c
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:10:45 PM #
No, there is no possibility.
RE: T655c
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:25:17 PM #
The T655C is the US version of the T650C. The T650C uses a 66 MHz Dragonball Super VZ processor and runs OS4.1, so, no, there is no chance that the T655C uses OS5.
RE: T655c
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:48:16 PM #
then why even bother releasing it if OS 5 PDAs will hit the shelves 3 weeks later??? sony should just keep the T615 at $299 till OS 5, THEN discontinue that model...(maybe thats what they plan on doing)

When will we see a OS5 PDA from sony??? I am sure Palm will be the first to release them, but i am more interested in what sony has in store for OS5....

RE: T655c
Token User @ 6/10/2002 3:34:56 PM #
It has been done so that Sony will have yet another device to retire in a months times. I love their product release cycle times, but (as a non Clie owner) it must suck to see your brand new Clie outdated a month after purchase.

OK, I suffer from Clie envy, and I think they will possibily be second out the gate (after Palm) with a OS 5.0 device. I hope it will be a NR70 replacement device (they are now about 2 months old - time to be replaced 8^)) with builtin bluetooth.

RE: T655c
dieselboy @ 6/10/2002 10:37:28 PM #
OS 5 isn't gonna replace OS4 devices overnight. Whatever form factor the first round of OS 5 handhelds will be remain to be seen. I'd like to believe that both Sony and Palm can ship slim-sized units (like Palm m5xx or Sony's T-series) @ OS 5's launch, but there's no solid information that points to that.

To me, the new T655C kinda confirms that Sony probly isn't very optimistic about having an ARM-based T-series by the end of the year.

Bear in mind that while Palm has been very optimistic (at least publicly) about OS 5, neither Handspring nor Sony made any solid roadmap about their OS 5 upgrades. I think we're making a lot of assumptions here, inculding that OS 5 will be ready by year end and that Sony will release an OS 5 handheld (T-series or not) as soon as Palm releases it.


RE: T655c
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:56:18 PM #
It's called "covering your bases". You don't sell just one product, which is the latest and greatest, or you'll go out of business fast. You target the full spectrum of buyers by creating and pricing your devices appropriately. Hence, you'll have the latest and greatest OS 5 devices, costing $$$, and the older stuff (relatively) for less money. People don't always want all the whiz-bang features if they can't justify the cost, so you fill in the gap with less-feature packed devices that cost less.
RE: T655c
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:41:07 AM #
well...when you think about it, what will OS5 offer that the current sony's cant do? HI res? check. Faster processors? check. multimedia? check. bad battery life? check. OS 5 will just put Palms on the same level with Sony devices. Its gonna be nice to see a hi res screen on a Palm m5xx form factor tho...
RE: T655c
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 5:21:24 AM #
how about even faster processors, more memory (dragonball has a limit of 16 megs but ARM can go up to 4 gigs of RAM), wi-fi and security (128 bit encryption).

Multitasking and the new OS

wilco @ 6/10/2002 1:48:25 PM #
Anyone seen the new OS and is isn't bound by confidentiality clause? Is the new OS true multitasking in that you can run two or more apps side by side?

RE: Multitasking and the new OS
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:57:39 PM #
I'm no developer but here's something I found online:
Because OS 5 also allows multiple programs to run simultaneously, Cutting Edge envisions a conferencing product that will allow a PDA user to be in a chat window, keep a voice connection going and deliver a document to other participants -- all at once.

"That's what we want to do, and with the ARM-based processor and OS 5, it makes it far more conceivable to do," Compeau said.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/020610/new_palm_os_1.html

Mike Compeau is Cutting Edge's vice president of business development and product planning.

RE: Multitasking and the new OS
bobes @ 6/10/2002 2:24:26 PM #
I thought that would be OS6?

4K Limit

Ronin @ 6/10/2002 1:44:52 PM #
I have yet to hear any information on a basic an fundamental limitation of the OS that has managed to survive every OS version release to date. Despite the increased memory in Palm handhelds across the board, despite the integration of memory expansion - the Palm OS still limits the length of a standard text field to 4K, i.e. in the memopad and the mail programs, etc.

It seems to me that while all the fancy doodads are being added to the OS like virtual grafitti, like hi-res screens, like bluetooth and 802.11 that this useless and antiquated limitation could be removed for the OS.

Does any one know if the 4K limitation will continue into the 'next generation of Palm devices?

RE: 4K Limit
Ed @ 6/10/2002 2:00:35 PM #
At one of the sessions at the PalmSource conference in February it was said that Palm OS 6 (or whatever it gets called) would no longer have this limitation.

---
News Editor
RE: 4K Limit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:29:21 PM #
> the Palm OS still limits the length of a standard text field to 4K,
> i.e. in the memopad and the mail programs, etc.

It is not the OS, just the built-in apps. Maybe it is to encourage you to use 3rd party apps.

RE: 4K Limit
potter @ 6/10/2002 3:08:46 PM #
> the Palm OS still limits the length of a standard
> text field to 4K

Palm OS 1.0 to 4.x limits text fields (w/o special code) to 32767 characters. However, Memo Pad limits this further to 4k.

RE: 4K Limit
Ronin @ 6/10/2002 3:30:36 PM #
"At one of the sessions at the PalmSource conference in February it was said that Palm OS 6 (or whatever it gets called) would no longer have this limitation."

Could it be that difficult to remove this limitation. I don't think that the many third party word processing apps and readers for the Palm address this issue. Why, after all these years, must an e-mail that is synced to my Palm be truncated or an memo from Outlook cut off if it is too long. Sometimes the memopad is simply the best place for information. Further, this issue effects many applications that let you attach notes including the HanDBase note field and the note field for the phonebook (limiting the usefulness of any entry like a phone log or driving directions).

I am just astonished that this unnecessary limitation will continue through yet another OS version.

RE: 4K Limit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 4:11:11 PM #
I am in COMPLETE agreement on this 4K issue. This limitation is especially counterproductive to Palm's hopes of making a dent in the Enterprise market. Enterprises use Outlook. Outlook has no such limit on its note, but Palm's memos do.

It's one thing to encourage 3rd-party development and product adoption. It's another to needlessly ship a substandard product which actually undermines its ability to perform as advertized (in this case, sync with a desktop PIM like Outlook).

Another thing I'd love to see addressed in version 5:

- Allow TWO ADDRESSES per contact in the BUILT-IN addressbook. Again, this is something Outlook and PPCs allow, but Palm does not.

Palm really should assume their users are on Outlook and build the custom apps to more closely match those fields and options.

Beyond the OS, I want a device with CF expansion. Will anyone other than Handera do this ;( ?

\Agnok47

RE: 4K Limit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 5:11:45 PM #
> I want a device with CF expansion. Will anyone other than Handera do this

Given the discussion on the previous news item, it doesn't sound like very many people care about this. So, possibly not.

Address book
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 5:13:58 PM #
Does anyone know anything about the address book limitations (number of fields) people were talking about in an article a few months ago?
RE: 4K Limit
Ronin @ 6/10/2002 8:45:17 PM #
I forgot about that 1 address issue. I am with you on that one too. Although I do not think it need be a Outlook compatibility issue but simply a reality issue. No one that has a job has one address, now they may not give you both but in this day and age that is the exception not the rule. And in a world with cell phones, home phones, work phones, fax numbers and e-mail addresses5 phone number fields are often not enough but I can live with that if they allowed at least two addresses and got rid of the 4k limit altogether.

Might as well throw in a complaint about the inability to assign multiple categories to any item. Which will probably still be around in OS 5 too.

RE: 4K Limit
Ed @ 6/11/2002 9:29:03 AM #
> Allow TWO ADDRESSES per contact in the BUILT-IN addressbook.
> Again, this is something Outlook and PPCs allow, but Palm does not.

When I was talking to Mike Mace from PalmSource at the conference in February, he made it clear that the built-in Address Book will never compete with Action Names or DateBk5. It will continue to be an OK way to store your contact information but if you want professional features, you'll have to buy a third-party product.

As he described it, PalmSource area of expertise isn't PIM software. If you want a good PIM app, get one from someone else.

---
News Editor

RE: 4K Limit
Ronin @ 6/11/2002 10:13:20 AM #
I don't want PalmSource to replace DateBk5 or ActionNames. I think that DateBk5 is all that a PIM can be and still manages to improve with each new version. In fact, I have commented before that in many ways it is a far better PIM than any desktop PIM I have ever used (aside from ECCO Pro but that's another topic). Nevertheless both of these programs have to maintain compatibility with the Palm address book as well as Palm address book conduits and the Palm Desktop.

I just want PalmSource to remove the limitations that are built into the OS. The fact that any item can only have one category is an OS limitation, the fact that standard text fields are limited to 4k is an OS limitation. The limitation of a single address in the address book is probably not a limit of the operating system since you can do it currently with a program like SuperNames. However, the additional information will not be synced to the desktop unless a custom conduit is written which would not work with the Palm Desktop or be compatible with the built-in address book. This would, of course, limit the usefulness of the program to a large segment of the Palm user community. Thus for all intents and purposes it is a limitation imposed by PalmSource and until they decide to make accomodations for more than one address entry per contact it will not be implemented.

RE: 4K Limit
bcombee @ 6/11/2002 2:15:21 PM #
The big reason the 4K limit's never changed is compatibility. Lots of apps have been build that directly manipulate the databases of the internal apps. If the data structures were changed, then Palm would be breaking these apps. One of the biggest apps in this category is the Palm Desktop and HotSync Manager. Changing the PIM format would require having users update this software, which means migration issues, retraining, and increased tech support issues.

--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: 4K Limit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/12/2002 10:44:54 AM #
While we are on the subject of small changes, what about multiple categories or a master category list for todo, memo, address and 3rd party apps?

----------------------
It always pays to be honest
except in certain situations concerning
money, politics and feelings
----------------------

RE: 4K Limit
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 11:02:08 PM #
I would certainly like to have more than 15 categories available in the Palm OS for my ToDo's, Memos, etc. How about 100?

So what CAN the specs be?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:24:46 PM #
I am very jealous of my friend's iPAQ that can play movies seamlessly and have voice recordings. The amount of memory required for voice recording's is huge and would like to know if the old 16mb max limit on Palm devices can now be a 32mb, or 64mb internal memory max.

Does anyone know? Heck, I was in class one day and he let me record a 45min arguement and burnt it to a CD for me and it is fine. Will I be able to do this with an OS5 handheld? (NOT a handera?)

RE: So what CAN the specs be?
cyruski @ 6/10/2002 4:44:26 PM #
curious indeed- did the battery last for such a long time? i mean, it's an ipaq .)

cyruski!
RE: So what CAN the specs be?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 5:25:57 PM #
ARMs are 32bit, they should have up to 4Gb memory (theory). 256Mb real RAM would suit me plus 10gb+ persistant storage

Mpeg and jpeg thought

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:33:09 PM #
I am really excited about os5. I own a sony cybershot camera and I really hope I will be able to take the memory stick straight out of my camera and view the jpeg files and mpeg videos on a sony pda. Any one any thoughts, do you think this would be possible considering the multimedia options in OS5?
RE: Mpeg and jpeg thought
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 4:13:00 PM #
You can already view the jpegs on Clies (but it's a bit slow).

On OS 5 this will be super-fast.


RE: Mpeg and jpeg thought
WhoControlsTheMedia? @ 6/10/2002 6:31:54 PM #
> On OS 5 this will be super-fast.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. As I understand it (could be wrong), OS5 will not support native ARM code but rather will support emulation. This will greatly reduce the speed advantages of the faster processors that OS5 allows.

I still contend that OS5 will be a disappointment. But somehow I bet Sony will find a way to make a nice flashy PDA out of it. Palm, OTOH, will release a 320x320 PDA that can play mp3s, view pictures and movies. Oops, that's already been done!

RE: Mpeg and jpeg thought
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:03:51 AM #
The programs in OS 5 will be faster if they're rewritten/recompiled for the ARM processor, and possibly even in emulation mode, depending on what kind of operations the 68000 code does.

And yes, OS 5 WILL support native ARM code. You just have to compile the code using an ARM compiler.

RE: Mpeg and jpeg thought
hotpaw4 @ 6/11/2002 3:39:55 AM #
Palm OS 5 will not support native ARM applications. It will support emulated 68k applications which can call ARM code plugins. e.g. parts of an application can be native ARM code, but not the entire application under the documented OS 5 API.

RE: Mpeg and jpeg thought
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 5:35:08 AM #
320x320 should be the new standard for all Palms. Then we will see more apps that take advantage of it
RE: Mpeg and jpeg thought
abosco @ 6/11/2002 7:47:51 PM #
Do your research before posting. 320x320 is the defacto standard for all OS 5 devices. It's not limited to that either.

RE: Mpeg and jpeg thought
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/12/2002 12:40:04 AM #
Cept for the video thing, i m already viewing pics taken w my sony dsc straight from the memory stick...

what is this about OS6?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:11:01 PM #
Sorry I'm out of the Loop, but there's all this talk about OS6 and I thought we were waiting for OS5! What's up with OS6, how do you guys know about it, and when is it coming?

THanks

RE: what is this about OS6?
Kesh @ 6/10/2002 6:49:48 PM #
Basically, when Palm started talking about OS 5 they also mentioned that some of the rumored features people had been discussing won't show up until OS 6. So some people are sitting on their hands until OS 6 comes out. :)

RE: what is this about OS6?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:57:01 PM #
thank you for your response
RE: what is this about OS6?
degminsec @ 6/10/2002 7:06:09 PM #
Does anyone else have more details on what is expected to happen with OS6 or when it is supposed to come out?

Thanks

RE: what is this about OS6?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:25:56 AM #
Palm Source has said that multi-tasking is coming in the release AFTER os 5 (whether this will be called OS 5.5 or OS6.0 is anybodies guess).

Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightmare!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:30:49 PM #
I got information from some insider that only 20% of the top Palm OS applications can run smoothly on the OS 5 under the simulator (since the CPUs are not compatible. A simulator is necessary). It will be a nightmare if you have some applications you can not live without. So don't be so excited yet. My best bet is to wait at least another six months before go out and buy a OS 5 device. By then, most top apps would have got native support.
RE: Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightmare!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 7:02:04 PM #
> I got information from some insider that only 20% of the top
> Palm OS applications can run smoothly on the OS 5 under the
> simulator

I got it from the same insider that you don't know what you're
talking about.

RE: Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightm
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:50:47 PM #
Nice try Mr. Gates, but we ain't biting on that one.
RE: Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightmare!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:40:37 PM #
That was true two months ago when I was testing a prototype of PalmOS 5 device. I couldn't give more details, but 39 of the 50 top applications from PalmGear had fatal errors. I left the company soon after that so I don't know the current status. Hopefully that's not the case for the final release...
RE: Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightmare!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:07:57 AM #
I wouldn't worry too much about OS 5 compatibility. Palm would never release a device stating it's backwards compatible if it was only so for 20% of the programs out there.

But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if your favorite program does fail under OS 5. To do some of the more cool stuff on Palm, you had to do things that aren't "accepted programming practices". But I highly doubt it'll take more than 1 month for any application developer who wants to support OS 5 to port their code over. Look how fast the NV70 support popped up! And it's not even for sale yet!

RE: Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightmare!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:12:57 AM #
> Look how fast the NV70 support popped up! And it's not even for sale yet!

Though your point was valid, I have to point out that NR70/V have been available in store for more than two weeks.

RE: Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightm
bcombee @ 6/11/2002 2:19:12 PM #
Any major program that's being maintained and developed by responsible developers should have been updated to work on Palm OS 5 by now. With the new Palm OS glue libraries and a little code rework, making things compatible has been pretty easy, at least for non-graphics intensive applications.

Before believing numbers like 39 of 50 apps break, understand that Palm has been seeding developers mainly with a debug version of the OS that is stricter than the final OS release. It is designed to ferret out any compatibility issues, even if they won't show up on the release versions of OS 5.

--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Hold on to your 4.x device. OS 5 is going to be a nightmare!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 5:53:07 AM #
*absolutely trusts an anonymous poster with "insider" information*

The only people who would pull a scam like the one your talking about is M$, but you probably know that as i'm guessing you work for them.

Wheres the software?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 10:29:07 AM #
Going to be a prety boring release without the software. The newer Sony 66mhz machines run AN, To Do Plus etc about as fast as anyone would need them to.

RE: Where's the software?
Ed @ 6/11/2002 11:04:52 AM #
OS 5 will run at least 80% of current Palm apps. The remaining 20% are mostly apps that are either very old and make use of some feature that was in OS 2 or games that directly access the Dragonball hardware to increase their speed. For the most part, the ones in the latter category will be rewritten to work on the new processors.

I don't think increasing the processor speed is intended to improve the speed of current apps. Just about every app I run does everything pretty much instantaneously. Instead, the ARM-based chips will allow new categories of applications, better games, multimedia, and that sort of thing.

---
News Editor

RE: Wheres the software?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 1:42:51 PM #
or maybe that's the Palm Inc marketing spin. Have YOU or your site done independent verification?

Ie. run top 1-200 application from palm gear as a sample an see how many are running and how many are not.

maybe than PIC can get some respect from users instead of just another rah-rah tech site. Are you protecting the interest of users or Palm Inc marketing?

OS7

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 3:14:14 PM #
I have a friend who works at Palm source and he has told me to wait for OS7. He has said that OS5 is bug ridden and that OS6 will be a revamped OS4 but with out mutimedia options. OS7 will be what we are wanting from OS5. I know that some people are going to find this hard to believe but it is true.
RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 3:30:32 PM #
Well, if you can't trust an anonymous posting about an anonymous rumour, then who can you trust.

Anonymous

RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 4:22:05 PM #
The world will come to an end, say a buddy of mine
RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 5:43:22 PM #
Why wait for OS7, when OS22.5 is coming! Remember to hold out until OS22.5!
RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/12/2002 12:30:41 AM #
The world will most assuredly come to an end- maybe tomorrow, maybe 20 years from now, and if not then for sure many billions of years from now when our sun dies. What does this have to do with PDA? Your guess is as good as mine (though probably not as intelligent :-)
RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/12/2002 8:05:12 AM #
well, a friend of mine who sells bootleg memory sticks on 42nd street told me that his friend who works at the perdue chicken farm had a friend who actually works at palmsource, and that his friend told him to wait till OS 8, becuase OS 7...........
RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/30/2002 3:39:05 PM #
I just came from the future...and i am sorry to disappoint you all...there will be no OS 5 even...and Palm Inc. will be sold to KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken)...please don't insist to get further information...all what i can say is that you can get a palm device with every meal.

oh yeah this is in the near future...16 of Oct 4004

....stimulation terminated....

RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 11:10:26 PM #
Sorry to be the one to bring the bad news, but you're all wrong; the future will end in 2012 just as the Mayan calendar tells us. How do I know? I know the Pope personally, and he let me use the Vatican's secret time machine!
RE: OS7
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/12/2002 4:30:25 PM #
If Palm users really have to wait for OS7 (and PALM gets no sales and hence no venture capital... ow dear) then all other users will have gone to Pocket PC systems.

Besides as far as these SA-based Palm devices are concernced. They will be significantly more expensive (even the M515 isn't that far off the cheapest PPC price-wise) so all those PPC-manufacturors have to do is lower the prices at just below palm-OS devices.

Look at the Toshiba e310. It's cheap and runs on the still fast SA-110 cpu. I believe the SA-based PPC's will soon flood on the general consumer market (Asus, Packard bell etc...) not to mention the former topmodels from HP (Jornada 568) who get sold pretty cheap these days while still packed with amazing features. While the XScale devices will be target more up-market. I'm affraid that these attacks on both fronts will give PALM a hard-time. Unless more companies get licences to develop Palm-OS based devices (Which I doubt will happen since Palm wants to keep having a tight grip on their market)

I'm affraid it's a dead end. Don;t shoot me.. I;m a long time Psion devotee and still love the Series 5. But I too am going to get a former top-range HP PPC (Jornada 568) which doesn't cost much more than a Palm M515.

Just see TomTom's Navigator in action and compare with that old Routeplanner/streetmaps-combo on either a Palm or Psion... I'm convinced you'll react just like me.

Regards,

EPDM

Run Palm OS5 on a IPAQ

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/1/2002 11:16:59 PM #
Since OS5 was designed to be ARM-based, would it be possible to convert my IPAQ into running a PALM instead of PPC ???!!!

Is this possible ?

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