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Comments on: Review: A First Look at the Treo 90

Late last month, Handspring announced a new addition to its lineup, the Treo 90. Despite being part of Treo line, it isn't a smartphone. Instead, it is a mid-range handheld with a color screen, an SD/MMC slot, 16 MB of RAM, and Palm OS 4.1. News Editor Ed Hardy has had one for a few days and brings us this preliminary review.
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Universal Connecter?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 1:51:41 PM #
Does the Treo 90 (or the other Treos) use the Universal Connecter that is now standard on Palm devices?
RE: Universal Connecter?
ardiri @ 6/13/2002 1:53:19 PM #
no :)

i have had my Treo 90 for over two weeks now (makes me wonder i never did a review) :P overall its not a bad little device - but, if you want it for gaming, you'll definately want to consider SONY. the treo 90 is very small, feels nice in the hand, but the screen isn't the best :(

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

RE: Universal Connecter?
Ed @ 6/13/2002 1:55:30 PM #
I'm sad to report that, despite its name, the Universal Connector is far from universal. The UC is owned by Palm Inc., not PalmSource, and Palm isn't sharing.

One of the major advantages Palm has over its competitors is the much larger number of peripherals available for its handhelds. If it allowed Handspring to use the UC, that advantage would be removed.

I believe that a single connection port would be a tremendous benefit for the entire Palm platform. Trouble is, I don't think PalmSource can enforce any hardware requirements. If it made up a new one, there would be no way to get the licensees to use it and they are unlikely to make the switch voluntarily. While I believe there would be long term advantages for all of them to use the same connector, in the short term it would hurt all of them, especially Palm. So this is unlikely to happen.

---
News Editor

RE: Universal Connecter?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 2:02:28 PM #
That depends. If someone could convince Palm to let other companies use the Universal Connector in other handhelds, that would diminish the short-term impact, since that would mean many peripherals designed for Palm's devices would fit. As we've seen with HandEra's experience when they wanted to use it, though, it doesn't look likely.

FWIW, while I think the idea of the Universal Connector is great, I don't like the design they used. With most devices, you can lift it off the cradle one-handed. Here, you need to use both hands or you lift the cradle along with the handheld.

Hotsync Cable / Charger ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:06:28 PM #
"Instead, it comes with separate USB and power cables, both of which plug into the HotSync port. Unless you want to buy a cradle, you can't charge the handheld and HotSync it at the same time."

The Treo 180's charger plugs into the hotsync cable allowing simultaneous charging and hotsync. Did they do this differently on the '90?

RE: Hotsync Cable / Charger ?
Ed @ 6/13/2002 2:14:29 PM #
You are totally correct. I screwed this up and I've just fixed the review. Sorry and thanks at the same time.

---
News Editor

I don't get it

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 1:57:19 PM #
So it's not wireless? I would need a Bluetooth SD card, and purchase a phone with Bluetooth? and get an ISP. Or use some cable? Kinda lame? What should I get?
RE: I don't get it
Ed @ 6/13/2002 2:13:28 PM #
As I covered in the review, it doesn't support SDIO, which means you can't use the SD Bluetooth card. You only options are infrared or a cable to connect to your mobile phone.

I get the impression that Handspring would prefer you to get a Treo smartphone if you want to have wireless access.

---
News Editor

RE: I don't get it
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:45:38 PM #
Do you think they intentionally have left out SDIO support in the Treo 90 to keep people from buying it, a bluetooth card and a bluetooth phone instead of one of the higher end models?

The Treo 270 is attractive to me because of the combo nature, but not being able to expand it with extra memory or SD cards is a big factor.

I'm beginning to think the most attractive possibility would be an m515 (or its Palm OS 5 successor), a bluetooth card and a bluetooth phone.

RE: I don't get it
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 5:05:11 PM #
Treo 90 = $300
Bluetooth SD = $210
Treo 90 + BlueTooth SD = $510

I don't see the reason why you want to buy a BlueTooth SD with the Treo 90. It's better off buying a smartphone, or if you're rich enough, you wouldn't go for this mid-range product either.

RE: I don't get it
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 5:10:13 PM #
Uh, the Bluetooth card is only $125 in the US. While the MS Bluetooth card is still in the 220+ range, the Palm one is pretty affordable.

Sure the new unit doesn't allow the use of the Bluetooth card, but many of us use a simple Voice Stream IR enabled phone (almost free with service sign up), their voice and internet accounts are now in the $34 a month range, and your choice of 'affordable' Palm/Handspring/Sony devices gets you way way under that 500+ range listed above.

RE: I don't get it
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 2:30:43 PM #
And with AT&T and Cingular going GSM, there will be more choices and greater coverage (since they're supposed to share it). Now, if they'd just get the whole thing rolled out...
RE: I don't get it
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 7:00:15 PM #
If Handspring's waiting or not going to release an SDIO upgrade, how likely is it that someone else might write a program for it? If so, who might do it? How much might it cost?

Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:14:41 PM #
>I ought to point out that the Treo 90's main competitor, the Palm m130, has a screen about the same size, though the m130 has 16-bit color.

Ed, you need to spend some time reading the forums on your own website:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5351

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
Ed @ 6/13/2002 2:23:23 PM #
I've been following that thread but you haven't convinced me yet that it's true.

---
News Editor
RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:24:05 PM #
64.000 colors means 16 bit display
4.096 means 12 bit display
256 means 8 bit
16 gray 4 bit

I think you're wrong, m130 is 16 bit display as well

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
ImpReza M3 @ 6/13/2002 2:33:42 PM #
maybe you could run a story (rumor) about it, Ed? it's an interesting issue.

_______________
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Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Sony Clie T615C
_______________
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Final 6/12-L.A. Lakers 113, New Jersey 107
L.A. wins Finals 4-0.
Congratulations to the L.A. Lakers and their Threepeat!!!!
RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:36:39 PM #
>I've been following that thread but you haven't convinced me yet that it's true.

Well, assuming you are open to the possibility that it's true, please tell me what is the proof you need to be convinced?

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:02:49 PM #
The Palm m130 can display 25k colour at a single time out of a palatte of 64k colours. The OS can display colours from a 16-bit palatte and the m130 screen is also capable of doing so although it can only show 25k at a single time. However it is true the m130 IS a 16-bit colour PDA.
RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:41:17 PM #
Correct, the m130 can display 25600 colors at a single time. Like any other 16-bit 160x160-PDA.

160 x 160 = 25600

So 25000 is the number of pixels on the screen, that means the PDA can not display more than 25k colors.
Questions?

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:27:16 PM #
The resolution doesn't determine the color depth. The m130 is 16bit because each PIXEL contains 16bits of color information. This allows more hues of color to be produced per pixel.

All of this is mostly irrelivant due to the horribly limited resolution, but you get point.

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
jontz @ 6/13/2002 4:40:07 PM #
Since you posted anonymously, I'll just call you Richard. So, Dick, what proof do you have that the m130 is only 12-bit? It can display 65,000 individual colors, albeit not at the same time. Since it has a 65k palate, and not 4096, that makes it a 16 bit display. Show me documentation stating otherwise and I will conceed that you are right. Otherwise, stop giving Ed. crap just because you have some inferiority complex.

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:43:35 PM #
Hey ... its Ed. Give the guy a break. We all know he will make mistakes.
RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 5:13:54 PM #
I don't think he understands what color depth really means, and the picture he uses isn't correct either. It would be more properly if he uses LCD Analyser to draw a 16-bit (65,500) color form over his Palm, and then draw a 12-bit (4000)color form over the same Palm so that he can *see* the difference.

Also, JPEG format is a compressed format, so it losts a lot color of color even if the original image was a 16-bit image.

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
cyruski @ 6/13/2002 5:36:57 PM #
look. i advocate this thing too. and i'm not anonymous.

i have an m515 and an m130. the m130 in the same exact conditions, shows some colors with dithering, whereas in the m515 they are solid.

http://www.geocities.com/an0nym0vs

this explains it better. ALL of my photos have dithering on the m130. if the m515 is 16-bit, WHY does the m130 dither the same photo being 16-bit too?

i'm not an m130-basher, i indeed like it very much. however, it didn't suit palm to do such a cheap marketing trick. why don't they advertise it as 16-bit, but (capable of up to 65000) when the m515 is explained as (65536 colors) ?

cyruski!

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 6:11:04 PM #
I'm not going to say I have enough technical proof to answer this definitively, but the available information makes me think the Treo 90 and the m130 are the same.... that they can pick from a 16 bit palette, but can only display 12 bit (4,096) colors at a time rather than the full 25,600 pixels that would be available.

-You can run a 16bit app on both, and the colors come out different than on a Sony NR70 or a Palm m515. Check out close gradients in particular.

-Both screens are 160x160, transflective, STN, color. Does anyone really think Handspring would pick a different/inferior component, being that the requirements (m130/treo90, cost vs. functionality) are so similar?

In my mind, it doesn't really matter, besides the fact that I believe Handspring wins bonus points for up-front honesty (if it ends up being proven the m130 is in the same boat.)

With a solid pre-processing app, you can make a very decent looking 12 bit color photo. Many apparent dithering issues go away if you use something more advanced than the little desktop apps that tend to come with Palm picture viewers...

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
Edward Green @ 6/13/2002 6:58:27 PM #
Hmmm,

Am I right in saying both devices run 16bit Applications? If the displays are only 12bit then that must be sorted by the LCD controller, choosing the closest 12bit colour to the 16bit source.

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 7:06:24 PM #
Edward, yes you are right both devices can run 16-bit apps.

I'd also agree with your conclusion...

RE: Palm m130 is NOT 16-bit
cyruski @ 6/13/2002 9:09:05 PM #
well, i don't use desktop tools to convert photos.

i use pixview to convert my palmpix photos to photosuite format. but i'm very willing to know the desktop apps which will help me produce decent looking photos.

cyruski!

Screen Quality

plaid @ 6/13/2002 2:19:01 PM #
How would you compare the screen quality/brightness to the m130? I'm planning to purchase a new palm in the next few weeks, and will likely not get to see a live model of the Treo in Canada by that time. I didn't like the ghosting and the somewhat fuzziness of the text in the m130. Is the text on the Treo pretty sharp? I hear that the screen is slightly bigger than the m130.

RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:36:21 PM #
For the same price, get a Sony T-615. You won't regret it.
RE: Screen Quality
Ed @ 6/13/2002 2:50:24 PM #
It is hard for me to do a direct comparison because I haven't had the m130 for a few monrths, so I'm going on memory. Both models use passive matic screens, so there is a bit of ghosting going on. It didn't interfer with me playing Zap!2016. I don't remember any fuzziness on either model.

p.s. The T615C at $300 is a good deal but you need to hurry because it is about to be discontinued. This hasn't officially been announced yet but the writing is on the wall. According to rumor, its replacement, a U.S. version of the T650C, will be announced later this month. It will sell for at least $400.

---
News Editor

RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:56:52 PM #
How does the screen brightness compare to the Visor Prism? The Prism has one of the brightest screens at the hightest level. Is the Treo 90 as bright or did Handspring have to reduce the brightness because of the size of the Treo?
RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:04:39 PM #
It depends, comparing T615 to Treo 90 is a non issue. Some people already owns SD products which means getting a Treo 90 is a none issue. it is also light. For some Hi-Res is more important so getting the T615 is important.
RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:10:22 PM #
It's definitely no Prism, but that's not surprising because it is a different type of LCD.

My first impression when I looked at my Treo 90 was that it was "muddy". But I've decided now that I actually like it a lot. And the size... it's so much fun to hold. It's significantly brighter than an m505. And honestly I think the reds are much stronger than on a T615. I've never seen an m130 in person so can't compare to that.

One thing that disappoints me is that the backlight is uneven. At least on my unit, there is a bright white spot in the upper-right-hand corner, and the bottom-right side is dimmer than the rest of the screen.

I also noticed that the R-G-B triplets are oriented differently (top-to-bottom instead of left-to-right). I'm sure that will irritate the software developers who are trying to do sub-pixel-rendering.

Screen Quality
plaid @ 6/13/2002 3:58:50 PM #
Re: Sony615
Already looked into this. Doesn't look like I can get this in Canada.

RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 7:44:07 PM #
>For the same price, get a Sony T-615. You won't
>regret it.

Just got mine. Best $275 I've spent in a long time. I'm kinda glad I held out for another color pda to drop below $300 (that's my pda-buying sweet spot). I'm sure the M130 is good but I had pretty good luck with my Clie S320 so I stuck with Sony.

RE: Screen Quality
plaid @ 6/13/2002 11:44:53 PM #
"I also noticed that the R-G-B triplets are oriented differently (top-to-bottom instead of left-to-right). I'm sure that will irritate the software developers who are trying to do sub-pixel-rendering."

Anyone looked at a doc on the Treo in Wordsmith with font highres turned on? Does it look ok? Any better than on a palm iiic?

RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 9:16:17 AM #
In WordSmith on the Treo 90, the fonts look kind of weird -- there are brown and blue fringes to the left and right of the verticals. They're pale but noticeable.

RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 5:50:13 PM #
With the Treo 90 compared to the M130, get the Treo 90. The screen on the Treo is just a tiny bit larger. But, I actually recommend the Prism, even though it is bigger, you get 16bit color, more expansion, and a bigger screen.
RE: Screen Quality
plaid @ 6/14/2002 11:51:41 PM #
I'd love a prism, but by the time I added the extra memory it would cost me way more. In Canada, the 8mb springboard is still over $100

Exact screen dimensions?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 7:49:28 AM #
What are the exact screen dimensions for the Treo 90? I'd like to know so that it'd be easier to see how exactly it compares with the size of the screens of the m130, Vx and m515 etc. Thanks.

I love my m130, but I'm not terribly excited about Grafitti input nor the size (very comfortable to hold, but not for putting in shirt pocket, unlike the Treo 90 apparently is). If the screen's even a bit larger, that might be enough to make me switch! =)

RE: Screen Quality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/17/2002 3:39:48 PM #
I don't have specs on the length of the sides, but the screen is 2.75" on the diagonal. You should be able to calculate the sides from that.

This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:32:41 PM #
I'm not any brand fanatic. i am fair when i look at things and never bias. I think this will sell well for new pda consumers since it's light, it uses keyboard, has SD and it is colored. new consumers won't know about the diff between 12bit and 16bit and the universal connector which has no accesories available yet.
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 2:59:30 PM #
it all depends, doesn't it?
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:25:44 PM #
No, it doesn't depend on ANYTHING. This thing will sell like hotcakes, PERIOD.

And the price won't stay at $299 for long, so you can pretty much guarantee this thing is going to clean up for its targeted market.

Until someone else releases something comparable at the right price point, nothing will touch the loads of quantities this thing will sell. It will beat out (but not wipe out) the m130 within 2 months. Count on it. Better screen, better form factor, better looks, says Joe Six Pack.

It's a bit of an exagerration to say that the screen is "almost totally unuseable" outdoors. It requires a bit of adjusting/focusing to appreciate color on the m505 as well. I wish people would get over it.

I can read plain text on a IIIc or m130 just as well outdoors as I can on an m505. Playing Vegas Slots while at the beach isn't what ANY of these units was intended to do.

RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:28:26 PM #
There is a PDA for everyone!!!!!
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:38:33 PM #
there is. this treo might not be for people who are pda power users but it will be a good seller to new users as i just said. this will be one of the reliable handhelds people would use for main reasons that it is intended to do.

RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:19:44 PM #
After more than two years of faithful service my beloved IIIC died. She had been ill the last couple of months requiring frequent resets but I had hoped to nurse her along until this Fall when OS 5 units come out. Well, I no longer can wait. I need my calendar/to do list, address book, etc. So I decided to replace her with the lowest price color PDA I could find as an interim solution. Looking at what is available, including the Treo 90, I decided that the most bang for my 275-300 bucks was the Sony 615C. I have read all the pro and con notes in PIC and decided to see for myself. Well, after only one day (I'm a quick learner), here is my humble opinion:

PROS - The resolution is all its been cracked up to be and more. It is really sharp and easy to read - especially after downloading the freeware program to "fix" the default thin font. Although I had hardly ever used my IIIC outside, it is nice to know that I can if I want to. The size is fantastic. After my IIIC it feels as light as a feather and fits into my shirt pocket with plenty of room to spare (even with the leather cover). The JOG dial is great. I don't ever want to be without one again.

CONS - Despite the great resolution, the screen brightness is nowhere near as good as the IIIC (which I frequently used as a flashlight in the middle of the night to find my eyeglasses). Although it displays a lot more colors than the IIIC, they are really washed out in comparison. Still, pretty good though. Photographs are really sharp. Battery life - to be honest it just sucks. I recharged it late last night and it is already down to 49%. It may be because I have been playing with it a lot, but I am obviously going to have to charge it up a lot more often than I did the IIIC.

Overall - I think it will serve my needs just right as an interim model - better than the other choices in this price range. I'm not going to get caught up in the SONY vs Palm debate. I will buy whatever tool meets my needs, and right now the 615c appears to be just right for me. I miss my dear 'ol IIIC but life goes on....

RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:48:43 PM #
my m505 serves me well..although id be glad to pay $100 to trade it for an m515 which is a little whiter and brighter i can still stick with it for the mean time. im excited of things to come. for people who just bought a new device this yr might not be a good time for them. but for people who bought m505 a yr ago and feels its time to upgrade..the market will have a lot of offer to choose from before end of the year.. lets see who deserves my $400 bucks this yr

RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 5:51:51 PM #
i think it all depends, doesn't it?!
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 7:03:33 PM #
yes, it just depends, agree?
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
cyruski @ 6/13/2002 9:19:36 PM #
> universal connector which has no accesories available yet

your ignorance stupifies me.

palmpix, keyboards, wi-fi, tdk blue_m, palm modem, gps- just to name a few.

cyruski!

RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 9:34:46 PM #
I think it all boils down to - it depends on your perspective. Good grief!
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 1:57:55 AM #
HANDSPRINGS UNIVERSAL CONNECTOR! NOT PALMS...Geesshh dont you read previous posts before blabbing? stuppiddd troll.
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
cyruski @ 6/14/2002 8:19:47 AM #
when did handspring have universal connector? your ignorance stupifies me x2

the first post reads like:
the treo 90 will be a success over the m130 because the users won't know the difference between 12- and 16-bit; also while the treo has no accessories, the universal connector doesn't have any too, so there isn't any comparison.

yeah. it depends on the perspective, but keeping in mind handspring never had or will have the universal connector, my perspective seems to be right.

it is hilarious to hear somebody talking about handspring's universal connector :)

cyruski!

RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers EXCEPT
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 10:02:08 AM #
The Treo 90 is excellent!!! EXCEPT for the stylus' ability to stay in its slot. My stylus never stayed in the slot since the first day I got it... it just falls right out when you tilt the unit.

Yesterday I was on the train coming home using the Treo 90, got to my stop, and quickly put the stylus in its slot and the unit in my pocket. Somewhere in-between the stylus fell out in the train and I lost it. I tried to go to Staples (where I purchased the unit) to buy a replacement stylus and its not in stock. Tried CompUSA- ditto. Now I can't afford to run around looking for a stylus and even if I got a new stylus, I'd still have the same problem of it not staying in the slot. What to do? Any solutions? Please post!

Otherwise, the Treo 90 is, without a doubt, the BEST PDA, hands down, no questions asked...


RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 11:31:27 AM #
one can for all - i say it all depends on your perspective. oi
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 8:26:26 PM #
The Treo 90 is the best PDA ever. Integrated keyboard! That's a first on Handspring handhelds. Not to forget, the 90 is infinitely expandable. No one else can claim that. If I were a PocketPC user, I'd be very worried now.
RE: This will Sell well for new PDA buyers esp.
cyruski @ 6/16/2002 9:25:39 AM #
>> Not to forget, the 90 is infinitely expandable.
>> No one else can claim that.

ROTFL! This is the most RIDICULOUS thing I've ever heard in my life. Visors used to be expandable. Treos- they are not.

The only damn peripheal (if you call this a peripheal) you can buy for treo 90 is a --$50 cable--.

The unfortunate reality :))

cyruski!

What about peripherals?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:36:27 PM #
No Springboard slot, no SDIO support, no RS-232 (at least none that's obvious), new nonstandard connector. So how are we expected to connect... modem, bigger keyboard, GPS, barcode scanner, Bluetooth or WiFi sled, etc., etc., etc.

No system is an island. Are we going to yet again wait for the aftermarket to take 1-2 years to ramp-up, and then have Handspring yank the rug out from under everybody by changing the format?

RE: What about peripherals?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 3:49:48 PM #
It uses the same connector as the rest of the Treo series. You can get all kinds of cables for them here:
http://www.pcables.com/

To me, its a non-issue. The only peripherals I ever get are keyboards and this has one already. YMMV.

RE: What about peripherals?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:42:19 PM #
But this doesn't have a keyboard, it has a "thumboard", which doesn't come close to comparing to an actual keyboard.
RE: What about peripherals?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 5:28:57 PM #
Well, it's nice to see that somebody supports the Treo already... but $50 for a cable? I know exactly what goes into it (including the 3V TTL RS232 driver chip), and don't begrudge them the opportunity to make a living, but... still... $50 for a bloomin' SERIAL CABLE??? ...sheesh...
RE: What about peripherals?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 8:48:14 PM #
$50 is unreasonable. even a firewire wouldnt cost that much. *****

They did what to the screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:31:25 PM #
They Shrunk the screen?

Oh For Crying Out Loud!

That is a BIG BIG BIG "UNACCEPTABLE"!

Sony first did that with their first clies now handspring is doing it. jeez.

RE: They did what to the screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 4:57:00 PM #
Yea, I want a class action lawsuit filed against Handspring for duping its investors into saying they were working on cutting edge technology.....sheez
RE: They did what to the screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 5:20:58 PM #
"They Shrunk the screen? .................... Sony first did that with their first clies now handspring is doing it. jeez."

Huh? What did you mean? Can you be more specific?

RE: They did what to the screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 6:15:31 PM #
yeah - they shrunk the screen. not my favorite thing - but Palm has done the same thing on the m130 (the treo 90s main competition), Kyocera has also done this (i hate this device because the screen is not only small, but also VERY unsensitive - and greyscale).
RE: They did what to the screen?
Kesh @ 6/13/2002 6:49:15 PM #
> Yea, I want a class action lawsuit filed against Handspring for duping its investors into saying they were working on cutting edge technology.....sheez

Please take a tape recorder when you ask your lawyer about this. I'd love to hear him laugh. ;)

RE: They did what to the screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 7:56:40 AM #
So how large exactly is the Treo 90's screen anyhow?
RE: They did what to the screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 7:02:54 PM #
2.75" diagonally. IIRC, it's the same size as the other Treo models' screens.

On-screen grafitti

sandbuck @ 6/13/2002 5:38:04 PM #
Did they take Grafitti out of the OS entirely, or can you still use one of the 3rd party apps to write Grafitti directly on the screen?

RE: On-screen grafitti
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 5:53:21 PM #
go for it!
RE: On-screen grafitti
Kesh @ 6/13/2002 6:48:14 PM #
According to the FAQ on Handspring's website, you should be able to use a program like RecoEcho to write directly on the screen.

Answers from Handspring

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 7:23:16 PM #
From: "Customer Care" <customercare@support.handspring.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 11:42 AM
Subject: Pre-sales or sales Case# 3117683


> Dear Mike Barney,
>
>
> Thank you for contacting Handspring.
>
> The cable connector on the Treo communicator or organizer range differs from
> the Visor handheld connector. You cannot use travel HotSync cables intended
> for Visor handhelds with your Treo or vice versa.
>
> At this time, we do not know of a full size keyboard for the Treo. If this
> product is developed, it will be sold and supported by a third party
> company.
>
> We do not know of any Treo to cell phone cables being developed. The Treo
> modem was designed to make connections with your handheld Palm OS only. You
> cannot use the Treo modem capability to provide dial-up capability for your
> desktop computer or laptop.
>
> We do not know what the cradle/cable connector for future products will be.
> We appreciate your comment regarding the compatibility of accessories
> between Handspring product. Please check back to see if we have implemented
> a solution to this issue. We are sorry for any inconvenience this may have
> caused.
>
> If you need further assistance please call Customer Care at
1-888-565-9393.
>
>
> Regards,
> Kristi
> Handspring Email Response
>
>
> ==============================================
> On the Treo Line. Are you using the same cradle connection (port) as your
> past models?
> Is there a 3rd party full size keyboard available? Is there a 3rd party
> Treo to cell phone cable available? ( I know the 180 is a cell phone, I want
> also to connect my laptop to the net on the road.) Can I use the IR port to
> connect my laptop to the NET? Will you be changing your cradle connection
> (port) is the future?
>
> I have stop considering your products because of the lack of consideration
> towards the customer who purchases $500 worth of add-ons to your products
> and the add-ons become worthless with the newest Handspring device? Will
> you be addressing this issue in the future?
>
> Look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Mike
>

RE: Answers from Handspring
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 8:13:05 PM #
Mike,

Get ahold of yourself. It's not like this issue comes up with each and every electronics device known to man.....

If it makes you feel any better, I've spent thousands on computer specific ISA, PCI, and VESA components to just put them in the museum when I upgraded computers. I've probably spent hundreds easily on handheld specific cradles, cables, etc that went out the door once a new model came along.

Bottom line, if you force vendors to stick to the exact interface ad-infinitum, the technology within the devices does not improve.

M

RE: Answers from Handspring
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 9:14:41 PM #
The reason Handspring changed the port on the Treo is because the one from the Visor will not fit in the Treo. It isn't some evil conspiracy. The Treo is too thin.

Also, several types of cables for the Treo line can be found at http://www.pcables.com/

RE: Answers from Handspring
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 10:29:57 PM #
The Visor connector is bigger than the Treo connector, but mostly wider. The Treo isn't thin at all... putting my Visor Platinum and Treo 180 side-by-side, I could pretty well tell you that they could have fit a Visor connector on the Treo.

Handspring has a winner!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 12:45:13 AM #
Looks very nice, is expandable, small, light, color, and you don't have to learn Graffiti. This machine will sell very well. The average user who spends less than $300 on a PDA is not too concerned about SD I/O. The smaller screen size means smaller pixels, which in turn will make images look sharper; hence 70x70 images look decent on my 1st gen Casio wrist camera =]. Too bad the screen is unusable in sunlight. Is it worse in sunlight than the transflective CLIEs or the m130? I was under the impression that the Treo 90 had a transflective display as well.
RE: Handspring has a winner!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 7:21:17 PM #
only missing one item, a folding keyboard peripheral. This would go nice since they are targetting people who will use treo90 along with wordsmith.
RE: Handspring has a winner!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 7:43:13 PM #
Targus may be waiting to see how it sells--look how long it took for them to come ou with a keyboard for the Edge. Plus, having the thumbboard there may cut into folding keyboard sales; only heavy users are likely to add a "second" keyboard, methinx...

VFS

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 2:49:53 AM #
I have just purchased a Treo and am looking to buy a SD card. I was wondering, what are the pros and cons of the different programs used to handle databases on expansion cards? (For example, MSMount, PowerRUN, PiDirect)
RE: VFS
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 11:11:09 AM #
I liked PiDirect II the best. It works similar to Handera's beta of Autocard (more stable though) in that it doesn't move the entire program in to your RAM when you select an application/database. It only pages the portion it needs. I haven't noticed any degradation speedwise when using programs, but the Palm launcher does sometimes take a couple extra seconds to refresh when you activate/deactivate it. I just tend to leave it on.

It was definitely worth the purchase price, and I'll probably not use anything else unless they can best this program.

RE: PiDirect II is crap
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/18/2002 7:11:32 PM #
I got piDirect Ii for my MemPlug and it is crap. It does not recognize all of the files or the folders, the instructions are complete jibberish and there is no support. But then, they have many missspellings in the manual so what can you expect?
Stay away far far far away

Great PDA, (except the stylus)

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 8:42:52 AM #
Good review. I've had my Treo 90 about 2 weeks and I love it. Small and sleek, light weight, thumbpad, see-through flip cover. A well thought out device, with the one exception you pointed out. I've have the same problem with the stylus. After 2 days it was falling out. I returned the whole unit for a new one and it did the exact same thing. I put a tiny piece of scotch tape just inside the hole and now it works fine. It should have a spring catch. I also wonder why they made the stylus so heavy. It actually represents 7% of the total weight of the unit!
RE: Great PDA, (except the stylus)
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 9:52:22 AM #
The Treo 90 is excellent!!! EXCEPT for the stylus' ability to stay in its slot. My stylus never stayed in the slot since the first day I got it... it just falls right out when you tilt the unit.

Yesterday I was on the train coming home using the Treo 90, got to my stop, and quickly put the stylus in its slot and the unit in my pocket. Somewhere in-between the stylus fell out in the train and I lost it. I tried to go to Staples (where I purchased the unit) to buy a replacement stylus and its not in stock. Tried CompUSA- ditto. Now I can't afford to run around looking for a stylus and even if I got a new stylus, I'd still have the same problem of it not staying in the slot. What to do? Any solutions? Please post!

Otherwise, the Treo 90 is, without a doubt, the BEST PDA, hands down, no questions asked...

RE: Great PDA, (except the stylus)
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 12:02:31 AM #
You can order them from Handspring's web site:

/www.handspring.com/products/Category.jhtml?ID=220013

It looks like they have them in stock. They come in 3-packs which is probably a good thing!

RE: Great PDA, (except the stylus)
atrizzah @ 6/15/2002 8:15:43 PM #
I agree, my stylus was snug until today. Now it fall right out. Also, I noticed the body isn't as resistant to scratching as the III series. This is possibly because of its smooth texture. I unwisely put the unit in the same pocket as my keys, and now it has a big gash on the flip cover.

Peace Out
Alan
At least it's the flip cover...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/17/2002 3:46:56 PM #
which you may, at some point, be able to replace...
RE: Great PDA, (except the stylus)
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/20/2002 10:44:33 PM #
I too have the same Stylus problem. I thought this was a defect and contacted technical support. I told them the whole thing and said "I had my Visor Deluxe for years and the stylus NEVER came out, is this how all your TREO 90s will work". He said "NO" this is not right and he is doing a product replacment for me, but I'm going to be sad to find out if this happens on my next TREO and if so, I will return it as I will not go and buy new Styluses all the time :(

Once again, Handspring messed up

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 1:27:41 PM #
Ok, why in the world would you buy this unit if you could have the M130 for the same price, AND OS 5 is coming out in 2 months? You know Palm will hit the market, and hit it hard, announcing a unit for under 100$ (this blew me away), and most likely one that is under 300$ and 100x better then the Treo 90. Also, the M130 is so much better IMHO. There are no accessories, and it will take a while for Handspring to bring any out. The built in keyboard will turn of 99% of customers (most people won't even touch the Treo now because of the small keys). The cover touching the buttons, and having the potential to turn on the unit is CRAZY, people will be complaing about that non stop. No jog dial, no cradle, no springboard slot (which many handspring users want), no SDIO support, 12 bit color, horrible use in the sun and most likely flourescent lights, no OS 5 and OS 5 is only about 2 months away, a tiny screen and who knows what else will show up? The only thing it has going for it is the smaller size, but for 70$ more you can buy a M515, or right now you can get the Clie 615 for cheaper, and it's 10x better then the Treo.

Are the people at Handspring just floundering to bring out *something*?

Treo 90 vs m130, m515 and Clie T615
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 2:16:42 PM #
I will admit that I haven't seen a live unit yet, but I'm still leaning toward getting the Treo 90. From some indications (including posts here), the screen is better than the m130--and bigger too. Probably right between the m515 and m130 in screen size.

I definitely want a unit with an SD slot rather than Memory Stick, and some of the colors on the T615 come out a bit off (the brownish reds, etc.) which dampens the benefit of the hi-res. I want a unit no heavier than my Vx--4 oz.--and as I calculate it, the Treo 90 is lighter! (Lighter than Vx + case, that is; I plan to use the Treo 90 without adding a case, and since I'm used to the keyguard lock on a cell phone, using it on the Treo shouldn't be an issue.) The m515 and T615 are both 4.9 oz without cases, and the m130 even heavier.

From everything I've read and heard, I'm far from alone on this.

RE: Once again, Handspring messed up
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 4:44:25 PM #
best thing is buying a used palm v on ebay. the prices are great!
RE: Once again, Handspring messed up
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 4:46:25 PM #
It's funny that you put IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) but are so adamant about Handspring messing up. If your opinion were humble, you would say "I think Handspring messed up."

Anyway... the M130 has no jog dial either and only 8MB ram, but it does have more color capability. Both screens are equally as usable outside and both tend to be a little hard to see in direct sunlight. The Treo 90 has the coolness factor but there are accessories available for the M130.

The choice between these two units will totally be based on personal preference.

I'd likely buy the M130 but the Treo 90 is nice.

RE: Once again, Handspring messed up
cyruski @ 6/14/2002 5:31:24 PM #
i just love those faceplates :)

cyruski!
RE: Once again, Handspring messed up
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 10:06:12 PM #
How is the brightness of the Treo 90 compared to the prism?
Treo 90 vs. Prism on brightness
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 7:04:22 PM #
I've heard that it's not quite as bright as the Prism but still good. Wish I could say from personal experience, but not yet.
RE: Once again, Handspring messed up
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/16/2002 1:56:58 PM #
I hear you. I'd like to put my hands on one and play around before buying it at staples online for $240 ($40 coupon).

Also, I think sales of all the treos are poor because around the Philly area they just have mock-ups - no working models. Customers look at it and then go play with a working sony or Pocket PC. Major marketing mistake. They would never do that with a TV.

RE: Once again, Handspring messed up
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/17/2002 3:47:58 PM #
I just saw a working demo at Staples. The screen was more or less what people have been saying--reminiscent of the Prism, but not as bright; definitely as good or better than the m515, IMO.

Does this have Graffiti?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 4:43:28 PM #
I love JOT. Can I use it with this new hot looking palm?
RE: Does this have Graffiti?
cyruski @ 6/14/2002 5:32:19 PM #
yep. with jot you may be able to have the best of both worlds :)

cyruski!
RE: Does this have Graffiti?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 6:33:09 PM #
it has graffiti version 0.1 beta

Ed:the lid is removable

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 7:50:53 PM #
Acording to the Treo website the protective lid is removable.

http://www.handspring.com/products/treo90/photos.jhtml

Does anyone know if vaja is going to make a case for this handheld?

Even Handspring Accepts that the Treo is inferior...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 8:12:17 PM #
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G14712011

Just look at handsprings official comparison between the treo and the Clie T616.

They accept that the treo is inferior. Heck what poor marketing techniques they list the treo as cheaper that the T615 for just one buck (299 vs 300).

RE: Even Handspring Accepts that the Treo is inferior...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 8:18:40 PM #
What i don't understand of their comparison is battery life. According to it the the T615 has better battery life than the Treo!!!
RE: Even Handspring Accepts that the Treo is inferior...
cyruski @ 6/15/2002 6:24:56 AM #
they are just too honest :)

however, 2 weeks later, as there will be no T615, the treo will have a big price advantage over the T655.

cyruski!

We need a high end model.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 7:30:22 AM #
A high end model of the treo 90 would be cool.

66Mhz processor, 320x320 screen and audio in such a form factor would be one sweet device.

High-End Treo

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 11:20:45 AM #
Handspring should cover the higher end market too.

This Treo looks amazing, but the screen is small and low resolution. If Handspring updates the screen to 320 x320 and makes it as large as other palm OS handhelds I am definitely going to buy one.

this is the killer palm!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 1:27:30 PM #
pocket pc beware!
RE: this is the killer palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/15/2002 5:07:15 PM #
It's pretty hard to claim that. I do agree that it is better than Pocket PC, but just compare the 90 to the CLIÉ NR70V. Sorry, but that is no comparison. The NR70v is the best palm out there. Biggest screen, fastest processor, mp3 player, digital camera, enhanced sound...the features just keep going.
RE: this is the killer palm!
JimBob @ 6/15/2002 6:41:58 PM #
> the features just keep going.

And so does the price. The NR-70V is cool but it costs twice what the Treo 90 does. That's $300 more. I guess it depends on what you defenition of "killer palm" is. If you think tons of features and money is no object is best, the NR-70V is your "killer palm". If you think getting the most for your money is best, pick the Treo 90.

RE: this is the killer palm!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/16/2002 2:16:15 PM #
Even T615 is better than this Treo thing. Low-res ? Keyboard ? No way.

Screen

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 12:20:13 AM #
From what I saw a Circuit City, the color screen on the 90 is horrible. The refresh rate is slow, and the colors seem to bleed together almost. I would never buy one of these, but then again it could have been a defective model.

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