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Comments on: Kyocera Planning Smartphone with MP3 Player, SD Slot (Updated)

Kyocera is planning to release the 7135, a smartphone with an SD card slot and an MP3 player. It will support CDMA 2000 1X, meaning it can transfer data at up to 153 Kbps.

The device will have a clamshell shape with a color screen on one side and the Graffiti area, buttons, and a number pad on the other. The 7135 is expected to cost about $500 with a service plan and be available the fourth quarter of this year.

Update: Someone at TechXNY was able to learn that, contrary to what Kyocera's info on this device says, the 7135's screen is 160 by 160, not high resolution.

Update: An initial review of the 7135 is available.

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Better Picture, External Caller ID

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:15:31 AM #
There's a good picture here (www.kyocera-wireless.com/showroom/showcase/coming_soon.htm)
Kyocera's website also talks about an external caller ID. But there's no display on the front of the clamshell, could that be a display on the top of the phone. This would be clever because you could see the number by looking down at the phone if it's clipped on your belt.
RE: Better Picture, External Caller ID
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:27:56 AM #
There is something on the top of the phone that might be a 1-line second display. Some people would be used to it already, since some pagers have a display on the top edge.
RE: Better Picture, External Caller ID
Token User @ 6/24/2002 11:28:31 AM #
After visiting the web site and seeing the better picture, hands up anyone who want to put the Kyocera Module 200 into a mobile (auto) based project!

RE: Better Picture, External Caller ID
Coyote67 @ 6/24/2002 11:31:08 AM #
www.kyocera-wireless.com/showroom/showcase/coming_soon_7135.htm

this pictures shows no lcd for caller id on the back. still looks nice, hope sprint picks it up.

---------------------------------------
When you have a Clie shoved up your mouth, you can only talk in vowels.

RE: Better Picture, External Caller ID
Ed @ 6/24/2002 11:33:55 AM #
If you look at this picture:
www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_Kyocera_7135_1_L.jpg
You can see what looks like a small LCD on the top of the 7135, right next to the antenna. Assumably, this is the external caller ID display.

---
News Editor
RE: Better Picture, External Caller ID
dmunz @ 6/24/2002 1:45:44 PM #
Are you sure that it isn't a covered slot for the SM card? I can't see any other place on the phone that looks like an access port for the card.

FWIW

DLM

RE: Better Picture, External Caller ID
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:16:57 PM #
The press release clearly states that it has an external LCD and that LCD looking thing on the top defnitely is it. If you look at the other pics on the Kyocera website, you will see the SD expansion slot on the side of the device.


RE: Better Picture, External Caller ID
CarlJ @ 6/24/2002 6:18:01 PM #
The pics that leaked a month ago had very clear images of both left and right edges of the phone; the right-hand edge, which you can't see in the current pics, has a slot in it (roughly in line with where 3/6/9 are on the keypad) that sure looks like an SD slot... so it is very likely that the window thingy on the top is a one-line LCD for the external caller-id.

Competitive Pricing

terrysalmi @ 6/24/2002 11:17:23 AM #
This is not a Treo Killer, as both have their own specialized areas. However, this will provide competition, and I will love to see the price wars on these models!

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:20:45 AM #
The problem is the price which needs to come down to be competitive. I can buy a small size color PDA now with a practically free phone for much less then $500.
Just because it can be done doesn't mean the mass market will flock to it. I would buy it for $300 tops not $500
What?
digilaw @ 6/24/2002 12:03:15 PM #
Um, am I missing something? Besides being a GSM world phone (though its hard to call dual-band a world phone) what does a Treo have over this? This seems to beat the Treo in every category. Better screen, expansion options (ironically used to be Handspring's forte), MP3 player, etc.

RE: Competitive Pricing
mtg101 @ 6/24/2002 12:08:17 PM #
>Um, am I missing something? Besides being a
>GSM world phone

Being GSM is a pretty big deal. Well, it is for anyone who lives outside the USA. Or anyone who wants to tap into the larger EU market for phones. Or anyone who wants to sell devices all over the world and not just to the USA.

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:13:37 PM #
I agree, this is not a Treo killer. It will, however, provide the inspiration necessary for ensuring that Handspring continues to innovate. It is so easy to say that something new is better than a product already on the market. However, keep in mind that Kyocera had the advantage of learning from Handspring's mistakes. With the Treo, Handspring pretty much started from scratch. Yes, I know that the Treo was not the first smartphone to integrate the Palm OS. However, it was the first to do it effectively in a workable form factor. Before everyone gets all excited and writes off Handspring's Treo line it might be beneficial to wait and see how they respond to the competition.

On a related note, I bought into the early Treo hype and bought the 180. I turned in my Clie 760C and Nokia phone and went with the integrated product. It worked very well and was, surprisingly, better than advertised. Ultimately I must admit that I simply did not enjoy the union of the two devices. However, although I did not enjoy having my phone and pda combined, the form factor of the Treo was outstanding. I have since returned to a traditional cell phone and have picked up a Treo 90 to go with it. The Clie definately had the better screen and a few more options but, although I am an admitted graffiti loyalist, the Treo form factor is far more usable for me than any other pda I have owned. I guess I prefer to carry a pda, cell phone and mp3 player rather than have them all rolled up into one device.

Just my two cents worth....

RE: Competitive Pricing
kevdo @ 6/24/2002 12:23:07 PM #
If you had to buy an MP3 player, color PDA, and phone separately they would likely be more than $500 and wouldn't be in the same, small, form factor.

I frankly haven't been overly turned on by the Clies with MP3 built in, mostly due to bias against the buttons.

However, as a phone/pda/mp3 this device has it! This is the best convergence device yet, IMHO.

My only concern now is the quality of the screen, especially outdoors. But, if it is as good as the m130 screen this is a winning device.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:33:14 PM #
I agree that in this form factor having your palm, phone and music player in one device in intriguing. My concern, or observation, is this: Consider people that use their Palm to edit spreadsheets & word documents, reading e-books, etc. Is it practical to think that they can use a device such as this one, or the Treo for that matter, effectively? Also, many of us including me, use our MP3 players while working out or lying in bed. An integrated MP3 is great, but just how useful will it be in every day life situations such as these? The thought of curling up on the hotel bed to read an e-book or listen to music on my phone, or jogging while listening to MP3's on my phone, simply does not seem right to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing these products. They are technological marvels and are all outstanding products. However, as Handspring seems to be finding out, just how ready is the general public for integrated products? The introduction of the Treo 90, at least in part, seems to imply that Handspring is learning a valauble lesson. While there exists a market for integrated products and they are the future, that future is still a long way off. Kyocera did a great job with this product, as Handspring and Samsung did with theirs, and I applaud their innovation. I simply wonder how long it will take for consumers, in the USA at least, to accept this type of product.

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 1:07:28 PM #
This is definately a Treo killer. For those who dont think so, then you probably own a Treo.

Im sitting here looking ay my Sony N760C and am imagining being able to call someone or check my e-mail with it. This is exactly what this Kyocera does. On top of that, it does everything the Clie does out of the box.

Lets face it, I went to Circuit City and had the opportunity to look at a Treo 90 and it SUCKS. It feels cheap and the screen is horrible.

Keep it up Kyocera. Maybe Palm and Handspring will jump on the 320x320 bandwagon....eventually.

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 3:32:02 PM #
>>Keep it up Kyocera. Maybe Palm and Handspring will jump on the 320x320 bandwagon....eventually.

There is nothing that says this is 320x320. In fact, some people have speculated that since Kyocera isn't touting the actual resolution of the screen, what they really mean is that it is 160x160 - 'hi-res' compared to a standard cell-phone.

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:01:48 PM #
"Lets face it, I went to Circuit City and had the opportunity to look at a Treo 90 and it SUCKS. It feels cheap and the screen is horrible."

I truely enjoy reading posts with highly intelligent comments like "the Treo 90 sucks". The reality of the situation is simple. Sony makes a gret pda. We all know that. Clearly, however, Sony products are not for everyone. I used a Clie for just over a year and found it to be a fine device. However, it certainly is not any better than the best offerings from Palm, Handspring or HandEra. Today I split time between a Palm M515 and my new Treo 90. In all, I have used pda's from almost every major manufacturer, including Compaq, and must admit that there was sonething in all of them I liked. For instance, I love the Sony screen. It is the best out there, hands down. I like the expansion technology on the HandEra, the versatility of the Handspring products and the elegance of the high end Palm models. If pressed, I would problably choose the Palm M515 as my favorite followed by the Clie 760C and then the Treo 90. Also, I truely enjoyed using the Visor Edge.

My point here is clear, none of these products is head and shoulders above the others. Each has attributes that I find appealing and some that are, frankly, annoying. I am looking forward to trying the new Clie's and am sure they will live up my expectations.
Yes, for sure elegance and screen technology, the Clie is superior. However, the Treo 90 is far from "cheap" and although the screen is not great for playing games or looking at pictures, it is oustanding for reviewing spreadsheets and other business documents. I love the form factor and the integrated keyboard. I also greater prefer the SD expansion to Sony's Memory Stick.

In the end making such enlightened comments as "the Treo 90 sucks" speaks more to the intellectual for the product itself.

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:09:00 PM #
the treo is the only palm phone with a keyboard. The upcoming samsung phone also has a POTS keypad instead of a keyboard. Of course, Handspring needs more than a keyboard to be ahead of the game
RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:29:33 PM #
I just love Sony trolls. I also have a Clie N760C and must admit that I like the Treo 90. I tried one out at Staples and thought that, for the money, its great. It is not cheap, does not suck and the screen is fine at that price point. I doubt Handspring ever intended for it to compete against the top of the line Sony products. It would seem to be positioned against the M130 and, in that case, it competes very well. Also, with its integrated thumboard, it stands to bring many new consumers to the Palm OS family.

When I bought my Sony and began posting it really bugged me that everyone bashed Clie users. Now I understand. Handera, Handspring, Palm and Sony all make great products. Thats what makes the Palm OS superior to Pocket PC devices, there is something for everyone. As for the person who posted the Treo sucks comments earlier today, grow up! You are an embarrassment to all other Sony consumers.

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:59:02 PM #
yeah I like the many form factors available to choose from. It's not just about how much memory and mhz you can stick into a PDA though we'll see that soon after Palm OS 5.
RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 5:03:50 PM #
"Maybe Palm and Handspring will jump on the 320x320 bandwagon....eventually." yeah like when Palm OS 5 devices come out so that developers won't have to deal with the hi-res API of the month. Then we'll see more apps (especially games) that take advantage of it
RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 6:42:22 PM #
Russ, CDMA isn't purely a US thing by any means. In fact until Sept, 2000 Asia-Pacific had more CDMA subscribers than the US by a wide margin.

As of March the figures were

Asian Pacific 43,480,000
North America 52,890,000
Caribbean & Latin America 22,023,000
Europe, Middle East & Africa 120,218,000

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:35:49 PM #
I must be the only person using a Palm OS product that could care less about hi-res. I don't have a problem with people liking it but can't for the life of me figure out the people critizing Palm and Handspring for not having it on their devices. I've owned a Sony, T615C, and it was a nice product. However, I don't have the time or desire to play games, carry pictures of my wife & kids in my wallet and I own an iPod. That pretty much takes away the value of owning a Sony. I'm trying out the new Treo and find it to be a very good pda. I have not, however, given up my Palm simply because I'm not sure if I can transition to a keyboard only unit.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Clie's and think they are great products, but for goodness sake get off the Sony rules the world kick. Whoever posted that comment that said, basically, the great thing about Palm OS based products is that there is something for everyone, was right. It's the OS not manufacturer that makes these things appealing. I like the new smartphones from Handspring, Kyocera and Samsung because they grow the market and ensure that all manufacturers will keep giving us more, and better, products to choose from.

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:49:37 AM #
Competition is a good thing. The new Kyocera Samrtphone has raised the bar and Handspring et als will ahve to raise the bar. I would expect at least one more new wirless device from Handspring this year after the release of the Treo 300. Perhaps it will be the first wireless with OS 5? Who knows.

I think that the Kyocera device is a Samsung Bluechip killer, not a Treo Killer. Unlike a Treo, you cannot use these smartphones all over the world.

RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 2:13:40 AM #
oh hi-res is definitely important but it is not the right time. look we have handera, samsung and sony each with their own way of doing it. will kyocera have its own new way or take someone else's approach? there's no virtual grafitti so maybe they took from sony?
RE: Competitive Pricing
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:59:13 PM #
Please don't think I'm an idiot,but why is hi-res so important? It is nice but I've owned devices with and without and have never been able to figure out what it adds to the functionality of the product. I'd really appreciate someone explaining this to me since I just can't get it myself.

Kyocera a Treo killer? Doubtful, but you never know. My tendancy is to believe that the only thing that will kill the Treo line is Handspring itself. For such a smart and innovative group of people they make some odd business decisions. As for the new phones from Kyocera and Samsung, as well as the Treo 270 & 300, I think they are great. Go Palm OS!

Beautiful phone...

Midknyte @ 6/24/2002 11:26:34 AM #
...wish it was GSM.

RE: Beautiful phone...
mtg101 @ 6/24/2002 11:51:55 AM #
Yep - ditto on behalf of myself, and the other 90% of the world's population outside of CDMA coverage...

---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk
RE: Beautiful phone...
digilaw @ 6/24/2002 11:57:05 AM #
Yes, what is with all these Palm smartphones being CDMA? While on the GSM side smartphones are dominated by Symbian and Win CE (9210, p800, that simens one, etc). CDMA is in only a very few markets (though one of which is the US) while GSM is dominant and gaining alot of strength here (for example AT&T wireless is going to be 100% GSM by the end of this year).

RE: Beautiful phone...
mtg101 @ 6/24/2002 12:03:19 PM #
Well with the Kyocera device... it's probably because it was originally a QualComm device, before they sold off their consumer phone business to Kyocera. And of course QualComm are the guys who own CDMA (unlike GSM, CDMA is not an open standard, there's a licensing fee involved).


---
russ@russb.fsnet.co.uk

RE: Beautiful phone...
digilaw @ 6/24/2002 1:55:12 PM #
*grin* that would certainly explain it!

RE: Beautiful phone...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:41:45 PM #
Here in the USA, GSM coverage *sucks*. There are entire states without signficant GSM coverage, including mine. If you're not traveling to Europe frequently, CDMA gives you dramatically better coverage in the US.

As far as the USA goes, GSM's great for world travelers and people who only visit large cities. For the rest of us here, CDMA rules.

RE: Beautiful phone...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 9:59:38 PM #
By the way, CDMA appears to be gaining ground worldwide. In fact, most people don't know this, but CDMA is even being used to encode optical signals. Therefore, until UWB, make mine CDMA!
RE: Beautiful phone...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:25:12 AM #
Uh......right.....ok.

Bottom Line: every major service provider barring Sprint has started switching to GSM. This includes Verizon, who has it in test markets.

I'm also seeing some posters over at PalmBlvd who have put their AT&T GSM SIM cards in their Treos and gotten it to work, minus the GPRS (which makes it no different than what is available from Cingular and VoiceStream).

Therefore, everybody get ready to go over to GSM within 3 years. Period.

Oh, and Sprint's decision is purely based on people's view of the shaky ground they stand on. They're switching to 2.5G because it's cheaper, and will only involve a modification to their GSM system. Interesting choice. Can't say that I care. They don't have their sh*t together, period.

RE: Beautiful phone...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:29:41 AM #
.....I meant Sprint's choice will only involve a cheaper mod to their creaky CDMA system......

Interesting New Designs

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:22:18 AM #
It is interesting that on the eve of OS 5 we are seeing a number of new form/function packages for the classic OS. In the past month or two we have seen new Treo, Samsung, Kyocera, and Sony models. I wonder how long it wil be before some of these features/functions are incorporated in OS 5 models.
RE: Interesting New Designs
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 9:56:47 PM #
The timing isn't related to OS 5. It's related to this TechXNY trade show. See the CNET article:

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-938774.html?tag=cd_mh

RE: Interesting New Designs
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 6:13:57 PM #
For practical purposes, there is little that OS5 does that OS4 doesn't also do: they run the same applications, they have the same APIs, etc.

I wouldn't hold my breath for OS5. I don't even see why Palm bothers releasing it. What's important is what comes after OS5.

Sprint? Verizon? Both?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:29:49 AM #
Any word on which provider(s) will offer this phone?
RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:35:40 AM #
As an Owner of a 6035, I would love to upgrade to this device. Any timing on when it will be released? Has it been approved by the FCC yet?


RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:54:14 AM #
I don't know where to check for FCC approval, but would Kyocera make any official announcement yet if it's not? I'd hate to be the PR guy who had to say "Uh, no, we can't offer that phone after all..."
RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:07:26 PM #
Many phones are announced before they receive FCC approval. The Treo is a recent example of this.


RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:41:24 PM #
>>Many phones are announced before they receive FCC approval. The Treo is a recent example of this.

Announced, yes - but not put up on their site for consumers to see. And not with a 'click here as soon as it becomes available' link like on the Kyocera site. This must of been FCC approved - they wouldn't wanna back track. Maybe i'm wrong but that is my guess.

RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:03:07 PM #
I had a day off and tried to find anything about this on the FCC website but no joy. Anyway, it's going to be released Q4. As long as Kyo has a 3rd party testing company working on it, it will probably be ready by then. I'm sure the wireless testing standards are well established (although 3G might not be).
RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:19:06 AM #
as a customer of Sprint i actually hope Verizon gets this phone..... i hate sprints service and their "secrecy" to what their 3G plans are. No for sure date, no priocing avail.....

We all know Sprint has the Treo and the new samsung i330.... and what does that even leave Veriozon for a CDMA based palm device?? I also would guess Kyocera and Verizon have a good relationship since they were one of the first manufacturers to provide Verizon with a handset for their 3G network..... i hope they get this one and i am switched for sure

RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 10:35:06 AM #
I would say Sprint, the reason Kyocera has an agreement with them.
RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:31:22 AM #
Sprint hasn't made any secret about their 3G plans......THEY DON'T HAVE ANY!

They're going to modify their current CDMA network and beef it up big time, although it will still only be what you might call "2.5 G".

They're doing this because it's MUCH cheaper than going the GSM route, and it will be much quicker.

I can't say I agree with their philosophy, based on their crappy track record. They've been the "first" to do EVERYTHING digital, etc., and they still suck.

One more thing....everyone's excited about the Treo 300 for Sprint.....you guys realize that thing is considerably LARGER than the Treo 270, right? It is NOT the same form factor. I believe it's even over an inch thick, as I recall.

RE: Sprint? Verizon? Both?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 4:52:44 PM #
I was just at the PC Expo in NY. I saw the Repr.. he said that most likely it will be both as the carrier.

Thumboard?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:40:04 AM #
If only this device had a thumboard (like the Treo and Blackberry), it'd be great. Without one, it's value as an e-mail device is very limited. What a shame. Wouldn't it be great if Kyocera offered two models -- a Graffiti and a keyboard version -- like Handspring did with the Treo 180?

RE: Thumboard?
Scott R @ 6/24/2002 11:43:14 AM #
Kyocera will be offering some sort of keyboard option, proabably a stowaway. You could also get a FITALY overlay for the Graffiti area and learn FITALY. It also looks like it will be designed such that you can use the numeric keypad for typing. The number 0 looks like it has the word "space" on it.

Scott

RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:19:03 PM #
I think a thumboard would have been a great idea as well. That's the only thing this device needs to be prefect IMHO
RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 1:07:39 PM #
I agree, with a thumboard it would be perfect.
RE: Thumboard?
robrecht @ 6/24/2002 1:40:02 PM #
Personally, I would much rather have a folding, full-size keyboard. Grafitti or phone keypad are roughly about the same speed as many thumbboards in that none of these options allow for touchtyping

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 1:45:17 PM #
> Personally, I would much rather have a folding, full-
> size keyboard. Grafitti or phone keypad are roughly
> about the same speed as many thumbboards in that
> none of these options allow for touchtyping

Yes, but a folding keyboard completely changes how the device would be used and significantly detracts from its portability. As for Graffiti -- I think most studies have shown that thumboarding is faster, and even the best Graffiti artist has to use a stylus, something not required with a thumboard.

Kyocera: Add a thumboard to this device.

RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:18:51 PM #

Use a thumboard for a while and I'll think you'll see that a stylus is still needed - button clicking, list selection, etc.

Kinda like using Windows with just a keyboard and no mouse. Sure, it can be done, but it's a real pain for certain actions.

RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:51:11 PM #
> Use a thumboard for a while and I'll think you'll
> see that a stylus is still needed - button clicking,
> list selection, etc.

I have used a thumboard -- and I was completely able to avoid the need for a stylus. The Blackberry didn't have one.


RE: Thumboard?
cscullion @ 6/24/2002 2:59:27 PM #
On a Blackberry, I agree. But a thumb keyboard on a Palm requies the occassional use of the stylus. The Palm OS was not designed to be navigated entirely from a keyboard (as the Blackberry OS was).

Chris Scullion
RE: Thumboard?
Scott R @ 6/24/2002 3:05:02 PM #
"On a Blackberry, I agree. But a thumb keyboard on a Palm requies the occassional use of the stylus. The Palm OS was not designed to be navigated entirely from a keyboard (as the Blackberry OS was)."

I've keep saying this over and over again. To whomever said that they were able to eliminate the need for a stylus, just what do you use your Treo for? Just dialing phone numbers and SMS messaging? If you're running even a small number of Palm OS apps, you will definitely need the stylus.

As was just stated, the Blackberry was designed from the ground up to be used with a thumbboard and scroll wheel. The Treo grafted a thumbboard onto the Palm OS and it doesn't work as well.

Scott

RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:41:23 PM #
It might be possible to get by only with a thumboard but having the stylus sure makes life easier. This seems like a great phone and should give the Treo some much needed competition. That would seem to be good for the smartphone segement as it will require all of the manufacturers to continue deliverying iinovative products.
RE: Thumboard
rueyeet @ 6/24/2002 5:23:06 PM #
Actually, I think this is the first convergence device with the potential to make everyone happy...Graffiti artists, thumb-typists, and novel writers alike.

It's got a Graffiti area. Sure, you can live without it, but I personally like the ease and convenience of the command stroke to do many basic things, as well as the freedom to scribble out my thoughts.

Then there's the phone keypad. Maybe for all of us "Graffiti-vs-thumbpad" PDA-oriented users, it wouldn't be obvious, but to all the SMS-ers used to a phone keypad, that IS a thumboard. And, as my dad used to say, there are more of them than there are of us: I'd be willing to bet more people use, and are used to, cellphones than PDAs. Add all the international SMS users, and that's a lot of market base.

And finally, for those longer emails, word processing, or even those novels, Kyocera says there will be a full-size folding keyboard. (Of course, if Samsung plans to offer one too, then their device also covers all the input bases.)

The upshot: More or less, and certainly by the lights of most cell-phone users, it's GOT a thumboard. And, unlike the Treo (non-g), it's got Graffiti too. Depending on size comparisons and plan offerings, this makes it very competitve to the Treo, in my opinion.

RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 5:32:14 PM #
They are hinting at more models to come:

"Kyocera 7100 Smartphone SERIES
Kyocera 7135"

Maybe there will be one with a thumbboard...


Argh.
rueyeet @ 6/24/2002 5:37:06 PM #
For the site admins...

The above comment on this device having all three input options was mine, and I logged in prior to posting it. But apparently using the "back" button to get back to the "post comment" screen invalidates this.

Could login boxes be included on the same screen where you post your comments? When I'm reading a thread and I'm suddenly motivated to post, having to go to another screen to do that and then having to start from scratch to get back to where I was almost makes it not worth posting at all. The sites where this is an option are much easier to post on.

Pardon my aggravation.... :)

RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:06:07 PM #
I'm on the fence on this one. I see the value in the Treo, but my current Kyo works fine. But, then again, I'm not trying to do instant messaging or email. The Fitaly seems good, but why can't you just abbreviate and keep the flexibility of the stylus?

C wht I mn?

RE: Thumboard?
Pentagonal @ 6/25/2002 8:59:36 AM #
"If only this device had a thumboard (like the Treo and Blackberry), it'd be great. Without one, it's value as an e-mail device is very limited. What a shame."

I couldn't agree less. One Treo is enough. The thing I find most exciting about this device is that it is a quality color, communications Palm OS device with graffiti-entry. Although other Palm phones have used graffiti, they have not had as good a screen as this one puports to have. It is the perfect combination and I am glad somebody finally got it right.

RE: Thumboard?
Ed @ 6/25/2002 9:39:43 AM #
I don't think this is very likely.

There are two types of smartphones,data-centric and voice-centric, depending on whether they emphasize the handheld or the mobile phone parts of the combination. Kyocera reps have stated repeatedly that their products will be voice-centric. In a panel discussion at the PalmSource conference in February, a Kyocera representative said his company's devices will be phones first, then handheld computers.

Replacing the number pad with a keyboard would change this from a voice-centric to a data-centric model.

Kyocera could change its mind but right now it is against the idea.

---
News Editor

RE: Thumboard?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 10:36:11 AM #
Watch the keypad will be use a thumboard, all the new Sprint phones are coming out like that.

Sony Hi-res?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:44:00 AM #
Why does it appear to be 320x320? I wonder if they've gone the Sony route, I would hope so now that quite a few developers are supporting that API.

Any ideas on which type of expansion card they're using?

-James.

RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:52:12 AM #
As mentioned in the article, it contains a MMC/SD slot.
RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:14:26 PM #
> if they've gone the Sony route, I would hope so

I would hope not. They should be using the APIs defined by Palm in OS 5.

RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:44:50 PM #
>>I would hope not. They should be using the APIs defined by Palm in OS 5.

Its OS 4.1 - so i would think that this isn't likely.

RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:49:43 PM #
It is NOT Hi-res as many may expect, just normal 160x160. It is said to be Hi-res just compared to other small phone LCD display.
RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:56:14 PM #
Thanks for all the answers. Bit confusing calling it Hi-res though...

-James.

RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:59:58 PM #
>>It is NOT Hi-res as many may expect, just normal 160x160. It is said to be Hi-res just compared to other small phone LCD display.

and who told you this?


RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:12:47 PM #
>>It is NOT Hi-res as many may expect, just normal 160x160. It is said to be Hi-res just compared to other small phone LCD display.

>and who told you this?

Simple common sense: if it were a true "Hi-res", they would have touted it a million times.

( I am not the original author though)

RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 3:11:47 PM #
> Its OS 4.1 - so i would think that this isn't likely.

The OS version is a non-issue. They can provide whatever API they want. By the time this device is released, all current devices will be using the same APIs that are in OS 5.

RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 3:26:08 PM #
>>The OS version is a non-issue. They can provide whatever API they want. By the time this device is released, all current devices will be using the same APIs that are in OS 5.


OS 5 = OS 4.1 + hi-res/sound API + improved networking & security. But OS 5 runs on ARM - i beleive for PalmSource to provide their OS 5 hi-res API to Kyocera would require a port to 68k - no?

RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:54:41 PM #
without ARM you couldn't have the improved security in PalmOS 5. There are many other things you can now do with ARM that you couldn't do with slower cpu's
Hi-res is a lie. Just plain 160x160!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 9:42:02 PM #

RE: Hi-res is a lie. Just plain 160x160!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:12:37 PM #
I believe you're probably right, but can you prove it?
RE: Hi-res is a lie. Just plain 160x160!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 10:38:02 PM #
Looks hi-res to me, if you go by photo on this page:
http://www.infosync.no/show.php?id=1980&page=2
RE: Question on Screen size
fkclo @ 6/24/2002 11:51:18 PM #
First, this new creation is 22% heavier than a Treo 270. Although it is around 10mm (0.37") narrow, it is also thinker (0.34", or 40% more) than the Treo !! When you put this in the pocket, thickness does matter.

Interesting, with the 710 mm width screen, the Treo barely fit in a 2" x 2" screen. Now that Kyocera makes the unit 10 mm narrower, and unless they are using some special mounting technique, chance is that the screen estate will be even less than the Treo (or the M130), although the higher res may help to compensate a bit.

Not really sure if this is going to hurt the Treo 270, especially that buyers of smart phones are mostly indifferent to MP3 play back features.

Just my 2 cents,

RE: Hi-res is a lie. Just plain 160x160!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:59:58 PM #
they always use photoshopped images to display color palm units. I wouldn't assume that just because it looks like that in the picture that it's going to look like that in real life. From what I've read so far, I think it'll be low-res but i hope i'm wrong.
Not hi-res!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 8:52:53 AM #
The specs for the new Kyocera may indicate a "high resolution" screen, but a company PR rep told me several times that it's a 160x160.
RE: Not hi-res!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 8:57:31 AM #
I think it is "Hi-res" if you compare it with a 40x60 LCD on a normal phone. Just a marketing spin.
RE: Sony Hi-res?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:36:19 AM #
It doesn't MATTER if this thing is larger than the Treo 270, because the 270 isn't a CDMA phone.

The Treo 300, which WILL directly compete with these phones, is an absolute brick. It is both longer and thicker (although I don't believe wider) than the Treo 270. More than an inch thick! No thanks.


Impressive

sandbuck @ 6/24/2002 12:02:01 PM #

The Golden Age of PDAs approaches....

Assisted GPS
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:35:30 PM #
The announcement in Yahoo's semiconductor business news make mention of this phone's assisted GPS technology.

I found a good link on this...

www.cs.huji.ac.il/~postPC/Geolocation_assistedGPS.pdf

Since I'm using the (now very outdated) QCP 6035 on Verizon, I checked out Verizon's A-GPS capability. Looks like they made a milestone announcement May 22nd...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T6E923F11

However, one thing that concerns me about the original post:

"The 7135 includes CDMA2000 1X technology, giving it a theoretical download speed of up to 153 Kbps. Of course, this requires a CDMA2000 wireless network, none of which are available yet. "

Apparently, Verizon and Lucent were working on a test in the Washington D.C. area, but CDMA2000 is more advanced than Verizon's Express Network service. I wonder if this phone would be able to communicate over the Express Network service. Does anyone know?

Also, would anyone know the rough timeline for availability for purchase? I'm guessing 2 months.

RE: Impressive
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 12:52:41 PM #
Yes it will. 1xRTT is backwards compatible to IS-95b. It's just that on a 1xRTT network you'll get better battery life, improved call quality, and the provider will be able to handle twice as many handsets per tower.

Yes !!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 1:03:34 PM #
Love it !

Where do I place my (pre) order?

RE: Yes !!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 1:52:56 PM #
at www.kyocera-wireless.com/showroom/showcase/coming_soon_7135.htm there is a button that says Click here to sign up for email notification when product is available
RE: Yes !!!
Bruno @ 6/25/2002 2:24:19 AM #
I hope for you that this subscription works better than Handspring 'sign up for email when this product is available'
By the end of 2001 I applied for this information on both .com and .fr Handspring website and I never received the f***ing e-mail to tell me that Treo is available. (Maybe it's not !)
Bruno

SmartPhone+Expansion

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 1:21:13 PM #
Finally somebody listened. a 16MB smartphone with an expansion slot is what was missing. wish the treo had an expansion slot. to date this Kyocera just set the standard for smartPhones. and griffiti is not dead ,with fast text auto complete apps like quickwrite and textplus writing SMS and email is easier than ever.
RE: SmartPhone+Expansion
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 3:29:35 PM #
Yeah, absolutely right. Interesting, the Treo and the Kyocera do have quite the same form factor, so this could be the final PalmOS smartphone form factor. Maybe that's how our wireless handhelds will look tomorrow.
RE: SmartPhone+Expansion
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:38:23 AM #
no the future is all about lots of choices

Kyocera vs. Samsung

jjsoh @ 6/24/2002 1:29:53 PM #
Interesting how people were quick to point out all the faulty designs and downsides of the newly announced Samsung smart-phone (www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3706&MODE=FLAT) when this Kyocera phone is almost identical in terms of looks. Yet, it's gotten nothing but praises.

I don't understand. Sure, Samsung hasn't announced details and technical specifications on their new model, but I don't see such a huge difference in design between the two models to incite such extreme opinions from opposing ends. Am I missing something?


Jim

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
dmunz @ 6/24/2002 1:47:58 PM #
Ok, I'll jump in with both feet. at almost 4" by 2.5" by 1.5" it's kinda brickish...

FWIW

DLM

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
Midknyte @ 6/24/2002 2:04:12 PM #
It's got game friendly button plamement (at least with regard to standard Palm branded devices). That's what the other phone caught the most flak for last week...

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:19:48 PM #
smaller than Treo though a bit thicker.
RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:24:47 PM #
Kyocera 7135: 3.97" x 2.43" x 1.17" (6.6 oz.)
Samsung Bluechip: 3.4" x 2.1" x .85" (4.5 oz.)

I don't know how other features (an expansion slot, a separate caller ID display, MP3, "hi-res" display) will compare, but Samsung Bluechip definitely has a size advantage.

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
robrecht @ 6/24/2002 3:35:48 PM #
How much bigger is the screen on the Kyocera?

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 3:50:13 PM #
My $0.02....
Also, don't let the name fool you. Kyocera is MADE IN AMERICA not China! :)

ekim


RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:04:41 PM #
>Also, don't let the name fool you. Kyocera is MADE IN AMERICA not China! :)


You are somewhat outdated if you still think made in china = bad. If what you said is true, then I think no one will buy pentium 4 from now on.

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:07:40 PM #
China doen't = bad products. China = supporting a communist dictatorship and removal of jobs from America to China. This may not be important to you until you see first hand the impact of both of the above. If you don't care now, you will in the not so near future.
BTW: the current pay rate in China for manufacturing jobs is $35 USD per month. And no, I'm not a Union man.
ekim
RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:22:17 PM #
well, ekim, I don't want to argue these issues in a pda website. Just has one point to say: Why so many people think their country's policy work in china when they even don't know what is china?
RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:52:40 PM #
but Kyocera is a Japanese company!
RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 5:27:11 PM #
I think the SonyEricsson P800 will take out both of these phone/palms even with the symbian OS.
RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 5:50:19 PM #
> but Kyocera is a Japanese company!


True, the parent company, Kyocera, is Japanese, but Kyocera Wireless is located in San Diego. Qualcomm sold off their then-unprofitable handset division to Kyocera. It is staffed by a bunch of the original Qualcomm people (who will become KWC employees next year, after their Qualcomm options vest) and probably twice as many new hires since the split. KWC is co-located with Qualcomm offices in an upper-La Jolla campus, adjacent to UCSD.

All KWC products sold here thus far are designed and manufactured wholely in the USA. These include the older QCP phones and the newer Kyocera 2200, 2100 and 1100 series phones. I have no idea what percentage of the profits go back to Japan, but these products support _thousands_ of US jobs. I live in San Diego and I know a few people who work there.

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
johnbartley @ 6/24/2002 5:55:41 PM #
Kyocera is from free Korea, not the US or Japan.

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 6:04:17 PM #
no, Kyocera is from Japan. Samsung is Korean
www.kyocera.co.jp/english/index1.htm
RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 6:29:24 PM #
> no, Kyocera is from Japan. Samsung is Korean
> www.kyocera.co.jp/english/index1.htm

It would be better to look at this page, particularly under the heading "Our History":

www.kyocera-wireless.com/info/about_us.htm

I'm not sure, but I don't think that the parent company has much to do with the day-to-day operation of this purchased subsidary. Lots of large corporations around the world have been expanding by purchasing other companies. Kyocera, a contraction of "Kyoto Ceramics", started out making industrial ceramic cutting tools. They have grown considerably, purchasing companies around the world, including several operations in the United States.

RE: Kyocera vs. Samsung
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 6:38:23 PM #
> It would be better to look at this page, particularly under the heading "Our History":

> http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/info/about_us.htm

Also be sure to read the part labelled "The QUALCOMM Connection".


Kyocera Press Release Says 4th Quarter Availability...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 1:41:44 PM #
RE: Kyocera Press Release Says 4th Quarter Availability...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 2:04:40 AM #
Thats pretty far away! They must be pretty confident that the competition wont come up with something better by then! Or is it a strategy to get folks to stop buying Treo 270 and 300s?

now we know why previous info was blocked

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 2:55:30 PM #
in the suppressed PIC article there was a picture of this phone but you couldn't even tell it had any color let alone 16 bit color. (compare with 4096 colors on the treo)

on the serious side

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:17:17 PM #
after 9/11 many people bought cell phones for security-if something happens you can call someone from anywhere. Now with built in GPS you will be able to know exactly where you are in case of emergency
RE: on the serious side
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:28:40 PM #
haha, I would be much better if someone else know where you are
RE: on the serious side
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 4:51:42 PM #
that's what e-911 is for
RE: on the serious side
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 6:47:03 PM #
I believe that the FCC is requiring embedded GPSes in all new cellphones. Something about people making 911 calls like, "We were just in a car accident and my husband is bleeding to death, but I don't know where we are."

Its controversial for obvious reasons. However, I think that the phones are required to allow you to control whether the GPS info is available to any app or only to 911 operators. There are reasons why you might want to reveal your location, too: "I'm from out of town--how do I get to your business from where I presently am?" or "Give me a map of all the restaurants in my vicinity." It could also be useful to people who run dispatched services (couriers, taxicabs, etc) in keeping track of the current location of all of their people, so that they know who's closest to a new call.

Small mistake...

Solo @ 6/24/2002 5:08:13 PM #
It's stated in the article that CDMA2000 1X is still not yet available. Maybe in the US (till Sprint rolls out with it), but we have it now in Canada, thanks to Bell Mobility, in all 3 major markets of Canada, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver.


"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together."

No CDMA2000 networks? Major blunder!
johnbartley @ 6/24/2002 5:49:16 PM #
> The 7135 includes CDMA2000 1X technology, giving it a
> theoretical download speed of up to 153 Kbps. Of course,
> this requires a CDMA2000 wireless network,
> none of which are available yet.

Uhhh... I'm kinda surprised at this blooper.

1. Verizon's got it in nine major multi-market interstate areas
<www.verizonwireless.com/express_network/availability_us.html>

2. Centennial's got it in Puerto Rico.

3. It's available in all of South Korea with over a million-two subscribers last time I looked.

--

John Bartley
http://celdata.cjb.net
http://palmwireless.cjb.net


RE: Small mistake...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 9:18:42 PM #
I have been told (but I'm no expert) that this phone with be compatible with Verizon's 2.5G service. We have it in the Bay Area, so that's good enough for right now.
RE: Small mistake...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 8:43:47 PM #
Not just Bell in Canada, Telus too with even wider coverage. Clips from press release at www.cdg.org

Scarborough, Ontario, June 3, 2002 - TELUS Mobility today announced the launch both of its national next generation 1X wireless network and of a new 1X mobile computing solution called Velocity Wireless

...TELUS Mobility 1X service is now available in major cities across Canada, including Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax, Montréal, Ottawa, Québec City, Toronto and Southern Ontario, Vancouver, Victoria and Winnipeg, with service expansion across Canada and into the U.S. through a roaming agreement with partner Verizon planned throughout 2002.


RE: Small mistake...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 8:48:22 PM #
and more than that, there are reportedly 8.6 million 1xRTT 3G customers world wide
http://www.cdg.org/3GPavilion/overview.asp

Treo Killer?

drw @ 6/24/2002 8:48:37 PM #
I'm ambivalent about this new kyocera offering as I'm getting SO TIRED of having to rewrite grafiti characters 2-3 times before they get recognized. I've got a 6035 and now even the "space" character grafiti gets recognized as a "u" most the time. That's gripe #1. Gripe #2 is that I need bi-focals, but haven't bought them yet. If I had to buy a handheld right now it would be a Handspring Prism at Fry's for $169. The price is right, the screen is full sized, and the backlight is strong. Nothing beats a smartphone for dialing contacts, but for other apps I use like handyshopper and handbase, I wish I had a Prism.

David in Pflugerville, TX
RE: Treo Killer?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:06:08 PM #
Amen!

RE: Treo Killer? Space bar/'u' character
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 11:58:23 PM #
Me too - my 6035 ALWAYS confuses the 'space' function with the 'U' character. I mean every time. I even went so far as to get a straight edge, and use it to <dash> across the graffiti area, watch the Jot echo function, and it goes down in the middle, just like a 'u'. WITH a straight edge.

Forget the phone

ssummer @ 6/24/2002 11:12:14 PM #
When you think about it, ignoring the phone aspect, this is what a lot of people wanted in a plain 'ol PDA:

16MB internal memory
Hi-res, 16-bit color screen
SD expansion
small form factor
MP3 player (well not too many people wanted this)

Forget this being a Treo or Samsung killer, it's a Palm/Sony killer. No other PDA on the market has those specs (don't mention Clies because they don't have a SD slot). It's like all the positives of a M515 and T665C rolled into one.


RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/24/2002 11:50:37 PM #
one issue is that the screen is too small and not too good for a everyday PDA.
RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:06:36 AM #
calling this a Palm/Sony/etc killer is jumping the gun a little bit. It's not been confirmed it's hi-res. Nobody knows what the real world battery life is going to be. Sure, this thing has on paper everything to become a Palm/Sony/etc killer but I'm a little pessimistic that first PDA with all these features is going to be that great. Maybe the 2nd or 3rd iteration. The first two kyocera (Qualcomm) palm phones doesn't count IMHO. The new phone and the two old phones are in a different league.
RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 12:53:59 PM #
Kyocera 7135 is supposed to have 3.5 hours of talk time and 160 hours of standby in CDMA. 6035 claims 6 hours of talk time with 180 hours of standby.

Compare to that, Samsung I300 claims 4 hours of talk time and 100 hours of standby. From my experience, my I300 battery hardly last two days. Most of the times, I'd have to recharge it (or replace the battery) every day.

RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:07:26 PM #
Palm & Sony killer? Treo killer? Come on, lets get a grip here. This is a great looking device that no one posting has even used yet. It should be obvious by now, considering all of the outstanding Palm OS products on the market, that no one device is going to rule the segment. Every consumer has his or her own preferences and each company seems to be targeting different consumer groups. I think these new smartphones are great, but I do not want my Palm and phone integrated. I think Sony devices are great, but I don't play games on my handhled and don't want my mp3 player integrated into my Palm. Give me a basic, plain old Palm or Handspring and I'll listen to my music on an iPod and use my Nokia to make phone calls.

My tendancy is to think that people in the mainstream view it much in the same manner so it is very difficult to see how any new product is going to "kill" sales of another.


RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:21:26 PM #
P/Sony Killer !? which Palm/Sony PDA will it kill !?

featurewise it is good, but the price... $500 !? what's great about sony's PDA is they price it right, I am not gonna pay $500 so that I could have features that could beat Palm IIIc.

This could be a tero killer though

RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:35:05 PM #
Treo killer?? I doubt it. If I had a dollar for every brain child that predicted the end of a Handspring product in these posts I could buy Palm.

I don't think much of the Treo, or the Visors for that matter, but I would have thought by now that some of you would get it. Handspring, despite all of their stupid business decisions, has many devoted consumers that will continue to buy their products. I'll keep my Clie, but even I can admit that Handspring makes good, innovative products that appeal to many people.

RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:41:51 PM #
Treo Killer doesn't necessary mean it's going to KILL Treo, it only means it's going to take a big portion of Treo sales. So no, no one is predicting the end of Handspring.

But fact for fact, alot of people predicted the end of springboard, that my friend it came true.

RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:42:48 PM #
You have a point, people do seem to predict the end of Handspring alot. Your also right that they make some good products.
RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:48:49 PM #
I thought ppl like to predict all Palm/Sony/Handspring's End alot.
Handspring - They are never profitable
Sony - They are not making any money
Palm - I don't know why ...
RE: Forget the phone
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:55:47 PM #
"Treo Killer doesn't necessary mean it's going to KILL Treo, it only means it's going to take a big portion of Treo sales."

Interesting way of interpreting the term "killer".

"So no, no one is predicting the end of Handspring."

I did not say the end of Handspring, I said the end of Handspring products.

Thanks for your help.

RE: Forget the phone
ssummer @ 6/25/2002 10:38:31 PM #
When I made the comment "Palm/Sony killer" it wasn't my own personal belief but going on the stats alone (before it was revealed that it is actually low-res) it's exactly what everyone from the Palm and Sony camps have been whining for.

"It must have industry-standard expansion" "it can't be a brick" "it must have 16-bit hi-res" "it must have better battery life than the T615" "it better have 16MB internal" "the buttons should be big" and so on.

On paper, it appeared to satisfy (notice the past tense) all the detractors from both camps. Say it did really have hi-res, what else would any of you realistically want in a OS4 PDA other than the 66MHz Dragon?

Phone or PDA?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:19:23 PM #
I've read all of the posts in this thread and there have been many interesting comments. The one thing I've been thinking about here, in light of all the Treo killer & Palm/Sony killer comments, is that these companies seem to be taking very different approaches in manufacturing & marketing their smartphones.

Handspring, with the Treo, seems to be marketing an outstanding middle of the road Palm OS product that is also very capable of making phone calls. Kyocera and Samsung, on the other hand, seem to be marketing outstanding cell phones that are also very capable of functioning as a pda. Perhaps this is so obvious to everyone else that it does not merit discussion. However, given the different approaches, how can anyone claim, with a straight face anyway, that any one porduct will kill sales of another?

This new Kyocera product, as well as the new phone from Samsung, look like great products to me. However, it is difficult, especially with the Kyocera, to envision anyone doing spreadsheet work on the small screen. How about reading an e-book on the small screen? HiRes or not, this seems to be much more a phone than a pda.

For people that want a great phone and a pda for contacts and appointments it seems perfect. The Treo seems like a better product for consumers looking for a fully functional pda that they can use to make calls.

Just my 2 cents worth....

RE: Phone or PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 1:58:03 PM #
Contacts, appointments, note taking, to-do lists, calculations, some gaming (the screen is color and _much_ bigger than most other cellphones, on which games have been mounted). With the SD cards (and Panasonic shipped 256 and 512 MB SD cards in Japan early this year), it could be used as a "digital wallet" for low-definition color photos. As for reading e-books, it's certainly _possible_ with the phone. Palm Reader allows the use of very big fonts--you'd just have to turn the page more often. And lets not forget the MP3 player and phone. Quite a lot of functionality for something that you can clip onto your belt.

Maybe not spreadsheets, but how many people use their PDAs for that? I've carried a PDA since the Pilot Pro was introduced and I've never done anything more than the above with it.

It all depends on your visual accuity. I always run my 21" PC display at 1600x1200 and use fairly small fonts. I don't think that this display would bug me.

RE: Phone or PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:06:56 PM #
I think the point that the original poster was trying to make is valid. Many business professionals, especially those that work for companies that have deployed Palm devices in the field, work with spreadsheets on their handhelds. That is why programs like Doc's To Go, Quick Office etc. are so popular. As far as reading e-books, or documents is concerned, I doubt that many people will be doing this exptensively with the Kyocera phone. The screen is simply to small to read off of it on a regualr basis,
Finally, the mp3 player is a cute gimick but it is difficult to see that being the difference in a person buying decision. Sony's have this feature and it really is a non-issue for them.

Thats not to say that this phone won't be very popular, it most certainly will be, only that to think that it can be used as a fully functional pda like the Treo is a bit short sighted. Its great to see the manufacturers of pdas and smartphones bringing out so many products that appeal to such a wide variety of consuemrs. Good work Kyocera!

RE: Phone or PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 3:20:29 PM #
How many people use spreadsheets on their Palm's? Are you serious, a large number do. Heck in my office alone I'd say 60 to 70 of us do spreadsheet work and word processing on ours during business trips. Very unlikely that any of us would do this with a pda/phone. On the other hand, its not like the Treo thumboard makes it real likely that you could do this type of work on it either. At least, however, the Treo screen is big enough that it will be possible once the add on, full size, keyboards that are being developed are available.


RE: Phone or PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 7:56:34 PM #
I work in an office of 2000+ people that belongs to a parent company that is certainly more powerful and important than yours, and I promise you, NOBODY does any spreadsheet work on their Palm IIIx or m105s (the most popular units in my building).

If you work in an office where 60 or 70 people use their Palms to modify spreadsheets, then you work in a VERY VERY peculiar workplace, therefore relegating any conlcusions you draw to be useless.

Sorry bud, but your message is so off base, I could hardly stand it.

RE: Phone or PDA?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 1:53:07 AM #
I agree with the last post. 60 to 70 percent of the people in my company don't even use their PDA at all - most of the time it is sitting in their drawer, backpack or briefcase. They only time that they take them out is when they want to compare them to my Kyo smartphone. If you have to use your pda to do spreadsheet and/or word processing on a constant basis, I actually feel sorry for you. I believe that people would start using their pda's more often if they had a combo unit the Kyocera, specially if the unit is as small as the new model (most people claim that they would never regularly carry my bricky Kyocera).

Combo v.s. Separate

james_sorenson @ 6/25/2002 3:59:50 PM #
Wow. So many people talk about wanting separate devices, yet it's the combos that get all the publicity and comments. The combo device is cleaner, more convenient, and tends to cost less than buying the two devices separately. However, keeping them separate allows you to upgrade the devices separately and allow you to mix and match to your specific taste. Truth be told, I want the combo. This phone is beautiful. Why? Because I need my Palm wherever I go (it is essentially my business laptop). I need my cell-phone wherever I go. I enjoy (but not need) taking my Mp3-player everywhere I go. However, I don't want to wear a utility belt that would put Batman to shame; nor do I wish to carry a purse. I finally got the VisorPhone last year, and I have decided that my next Palm must be a combo device. One item is clipped to my belt. I don't have to carry extra cables or precariously line up IR to eb able to read my messages and news on a decent screen (BlueTooth may help here). I don't have to carry a multitude of chargers wherever I travel. I don't have to constantly synchronise phone numbers between the devices. I would prefer separate devices if I only used them at home or in the office, but I'm not that lucky. Now, this thing still isn't what I want. I wish it had a larger hi-res screen, PalmOS 5, and GSM compatibility. Otherwise, it's almost what I want. Yah yah, I hear that the PocketPC combos have it all, but I couldn't stand the sluggish interface and pathetic battery life. I hope the upcoming Palm Smartphone has what I want!

Jim

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James Sorenson

RE: Combo v.s. Separate
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/25/2002 4:56:26 PM #
I like the idea having two things in one. I think its nice. its the way of the future. and its the demand. But personally I think i rather have been separate. I tink most ppl change their cellular just about once a year. something new and cute comes out, we want to get it. plus cellular are cheap.. now how often will an AVERAGE person change their pda?? i know all you geeks will buy the new one as it comes. but remember you are not the highest demand.. average person would be.

i dunno.. thats just my 3 cents.

RE: Combo v.s. Separate
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 1:10:57 AM #
Gang, The whole deal with the Treo is that EVERYBODY is going to have a phone. So, for people that want a PDA too, Treo is the ticket -- a PDA and a phone. I think the discussion of should the device be more phone like or more PDA like is where the rubber meets the road here. Time will tell but I go with the Treo over all others.

Surface Cruncher

Open the clam shell with every appointment ???

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/26/2002 1:40:12 AM #
Very nice device, I really don't like the fact that you would have to open the clam shell to see each appoint alarm or browse schedule because of no window for the screen. The caller ID solves part of the problem. I really like the fact with the treo one can scroll thru their schedule or read a received text message page without ever opening the device. To me, the lack of a window in this product is a real shortcoming for my usage needs.

Wait for the next sony release before you decide!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/7/2002 9:45:00 PM #
guys i think it's time for sony to come up with the next device! i mean sony and ericsson! and i'm really happy about the Kyocera_7135, why? because it will push sony to release the next handheld, which i am waiting for :D
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