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Comments on: Rumor: Picture Leaked of New Palm Handheld

Pocket PC Thoughts has what it claims is a leaked image of a new Palm model that runs OS 5. Named "Oslo", it appears to have a Graffiti area that can be hidden by physically sliding the bottom of the handheld up over it. This is quite similar to the Sharp Zaurus, except that model has a keyboard that is hidden in the same way. According to Pocket PC Thoughts, this model will be coming out within 60 days.

Update This image may have actually originated at the Thai Palm Users Group, as they have a copy that includes the serial number that is missing from the Pocket PC Thoughts' version.

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Dorky new Palm revealed

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 2:19:01 PM #
well, talking about slow poke or major censorship in PIC. SOmebody else atually got the first leak on that next palm.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com
/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2152

Comment:
-blah... screen look boring
-this better cost $399 or less
-somebody call up Sony to fix the design
- it got D-pad. finally.
-speaker is a disaster. (so much for multimedia)
-what's with the grafitti area? haven't they heard of virtual grafitti?

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 2:44:57 PM #
Hmmmm I have to admit, this is a rather intriguing design. I sorta like the idea of the "sliding" graffitti area but I'd REALLY prefer a virtual one. I hope to god that there is some sort of scroll/jog wheel on the side of this unit.

Likes:
-Possibly being the "shortest" Palm OS unit around. Easy pocketability.
-Buttons look fairly high-quality.
-D-pad FINALLY!
-Casing looks fairly durable/stylish

Dislikes:
-Screen looks too pixelated
-Is that a speaker or a mic on the top of the unit? Whatever it is it's poorly placed.
-D-pad does not seem "defined" enough to ensure accurate game/cursor control. Think of the original Sega Master System (versus the PSX or NES' cross-style D-pads) If Palm are serious about the games market, then they need to position the D-pad to the far LEFT side of the unit and arrange all of the hard buttons in a row. Of course this might somehow upset the delicate Zen balance.
-Graffitti area appears to not be backlit...again

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 4:18:27 PM #
Notice the button, it's smooth, I think it's just the pictures that are screwy, I think the screen is 320x320
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 4:28:47 PM #
This is definately a high res screen - but like poster above, I wish it was virtual graffiti instead. Small is good though...

I can only guess having the DPad in the center is so both righties and lefties are happy (or should I say "not as upset").

Not too sure I like the hidden graffiti concept, I'll have to think about how I use it and if the extra step is worth it.

Interested to see the specs (dimensions, weight, processor speed, memory, mp3?, voice recording, etc...)

gummycat

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 5:05:05 PM #
Well, I still see a lot of middle-aged types carrying around their IIIc Palms and various Visors. They like the big screens and easy-to-handle buttons. I think that it would be in Palm's best interest to release, every now and again, a thoroughly modern unit in a III-style formfactor. It could have a knockout screen, great battery life and (down the road) wireless/bluetooth. The trend ever since the release of the m100, what, 2 years ago, has been to smaller formfactors, smaller screens (and buttons), and higher resolutions.

I don't know about you guys but my eyesight is getting worse, not better. A regged unit about the size of the IIIc but with a larger screen (and a virtual/or this new sliding graffitti contraption) would probably do quite well in the education market as well as for heavy-duty userss out in the field.

Imagine how much better the IIIc would have sold had it come pre-loaded with Zap! and the Palm GamePad bundled at no cost in the box...

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
ahecht @ 7/11/2002 7:03:31 PM #
At the request of Palm, the images were just removed about two minutes ago. Good thing I saved them to my hard drive!

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 7:34:25 PM #
please post those pics!
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2002 8:47:44 PM #
Palm's lawyers already had a chat with the original poster and the photo was removed. Better download it from this link while you can. Aside: Is Palm now naming their products like Blaupunkt? If so, I want the Palm "Cleveland." No flames about my home city either.
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
Altema @ 7/12/2002 1:51:58 AM #
The thumbnailed images appear pixelated because they are rendered in a lower resolution than what the device is capable of showing. To get a better idea of the resolution, look at the text box in the bottom right corner of the screen. I would have preferred virtual graffiti too, but would have to try this to see if I hated it, or if it was ok after you got used to it. It would be ok for arcade games that do not use the graffiti area...

BTW to the original poster, was there something on the ppcthoughts site indicating the speaker quality? I did not see it, or perhaps I just missed it. Or, have you heard the device? To me it would be a waste of time to put speaker holes in a device, then stick a cheap piezo driver there. They probably choose the top so alarms would sound louder when the device was in the pocket, and also so the speaker was not covered by your hands/fingers while gaming (like on all my thinkpads!).

Altema

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 8:34:13 AM #
It looks like gamers may be the target market for this Palm. The gamepad like scroll buttons indicate this.
Your all wrong IT DOES NOT COLLAPSE
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 9:57:29 AM #
I don't think the bottom slides up to cover the grafitti area, I think this is a space where a snap on KEYBOARD covers the grafitti area without increasing the width of the unit...
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:21:26 AM #
"I don't think the bottom slides up to cover the grafitti area, I think this is a space where a snap on KEYBOARD covers the grafitti area without increasing the width of the unit..."

This was one of my first thoughts. But see my post below for my new revelation. I now think that the joypad and buttons slide up but the length remains the same, providing an empty area below the joypad for your palms to rest on while playing games.

Scott

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:28:55 AM #
What if the buttons slide up to reveal a keyboard under it?
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:36:25 AM #
"What if the buttons slide up to reveal a keyboard under it?"

There you go, now you're thinking. ;)

I sure hope it isn't as simple as sliding up to make the device smaller. That would be nice and all, but I like these other theories better.

Scott

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:39:17 AM #
If indeed the "d-pad area" is fixed, and there is a removeable "middle piece" that is a snap-on keyboard, then it is either the smallest keyboard in history, or this unit is huge.

I've studied this picture quite a bit, and based on the curvature of the bottom of the d-pad area, I'm guessing that the D-pad area is indeed a sliding mechanism that slides back up over the graffitti area, and acts as the bottom of the unit.

Either way, it's curvature matches the TOP of the unit, so it doesn't slide back UP only to reveal a keyboard underneath.....that much I'm sure of.

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:46:41 AM #
"If indeed the "d-pad area" is fixed, and there is a removeable "middle piece" that is a snap-on keyboard, then it is either the smallest keyboard in history, or this unit is huge."

Not sure if I agree with that. The Treo's keyboard section is quite small.

"I've studied this picture quite a bit, and based on the curvature of the bottom of the d-pad area, I'm guessing that the D-pad area is indeed a sliding mechanism that slides back up over the graffitti area, and acts as the bottom of the unit."

I thought about that too and have a sinking feeling that you're right. If true, at the least, it will make for a nice, small device.

This could also be part of Palm, Inc.'s plan for the Graffiti lawsuit with Xerox. They could slide it closed and say, "Look judge, we complied and took out Graffiti." Case closed. ;)

Scott

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
markgm @ 7/12/2002 11:02:14 AM #
Wow...all the free development information we give here! These boards are such a wealth of info to a company creating a new product!

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:09:41 AM #
I don't generally feel that it is appropriate to characterize a person's opinion as stupid. However, whoever started this thread is an idiot. How can you possibly make any intelligent comments about a rumored handheld from one picture. Call Sony to fix the design? Call the doctor to fix your mind!
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:24:52 AM #
If you look closely at the name "Oslo" (in the big picture) you can see that there has been some type of smudging that conceals the rest of the name. Could this be just a hoax?
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:26:57 AM #
"This could also be part of Palm, Inc.'s plan for the Graffiti lawsuit with Xerox"
No need, check out the Palm and Handspring press releases (or Palmgear). They've won!

Interesting machine this is.
Greetings, Roel.

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
Ed @ 7/12/2002 11:27:32 AM #
"No need, check out the Palm and Handspring press releases (or Palmgear). They've won!"

Sorry, wrong lawsuit. A Judge threw out NCR's suit against Palm and Handspring, not Xerox's. The NCR suit had nothing to do with Graffiti.

---
News Editor

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:28:31 AM #
aha, so finally Palm folks start posting and curious about public opinion on the almost still secret product. (plus getting defensive and all ruffled up seing their baby gets trash by cynical net reader)

well pal. It stinks. Is this the uber-Palm that suppose to dominate the world? It needs work.

Physical screen size is still small, no fix for the long demanded virtual grafitti. There is no indication the device can handle memory and wireless cards at same time. Audio capability doesn't look too strong from the picture. The sliding pad concept is a no go. There won't be any leather case good enough for it.

All in all this more like a mid priced offering rather than top of the line, a direct competition to Toshiba E310.

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
big_raji @ 7/12/2002 11:36:10 AM #
"If you look closely at the name "Oslo" (in the big picture) you can see that there has been some type of smudging that conceals the rest of the name. Could this be just a hoax?"

---

No, the smudged part is probably the unique serial number for this unit. This is likely a prototype, and they've stamped unique numbers on the front of each one. The poster is just protecting the owner of this particular model.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
swinginjonny @ 7/12/2002 2:12:41 PM #
"Is this the uber-Palm that suppose to dominate the world? It needs work.

Physical screen size is still small, no fix for the long demanded virtual grafitti. There is no indication the device can handle memory and wireless cards at same time. Audio capability doesn't look too strong from the picture. The sliding pad concept is a no go. There won't be any leather case good enough for it."

No one ever said this was "The Perfect PDA"! We all know that doesn't exist--everyone's different. You made quite the assumption with the whole "uber-Palm" comment. No one ever claimed that.
There's no indication that it DOESN'T handle memory and wireless cards at the same time, why the assumption one-way?
And-
How can you possibly make any sort of judgement on sound quality from a picture?
This is a rumor! Maybe we should reserve final judgement for when we see the actual product. A whole lot of people ripped on the terrible Sony clam-shell design when it was just a rumor and said it would never sell. It seemed to work out fine.

(Self-confessed Palm Geek)

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:50:33 PM #
The bottom does indeed slide up to cover the Graffiti area.

Check out the rendered images in the story on http://www.pdabuzz.com

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
CarlJ @ 7/12/2002 3:14:52 PM #
So people are saying... the built-in gamepad isn't perfect, where's the jogwheel, and why no virtual graffiti.

I think the answers to all these are related. I don't think this machine was built with gamers in mind (though they'll no doubt benefit from it). I think it was built to: (a) make an extremely small device, and (b) make it possible to do a whole lot of navigating around in the primary (built-in) apps without "opening" the unit. (No one has commented on the center dome in the "gamepad" -- could be a select button?)

Remember, too, that now that Palm is separate from Palmsource, they're free (indeed, under pressure) to differentiate their handhelds from those of other PalmOS licensees by adding new features or apps that aren't handed out to the other companies (something they started doing with their NotePad and AlarmClock apps, and similar to what Handspring has done with DateBk, CityTime, and Parens). What if Palm made some tweaks to their copies of the built-in apps, or included some add-on/replacement apps, that made it terribly easy to maneuver through your information in the basic apps using just the four-directions-and-select buttons of the "gamepad"? So you could look up a phone number, tweak your schedule for the day, check off a todo item, all without ever touching the screen, much less the graffiti area.

It looks like Palm has built a really small, handy OS5 machine. Don't know that this will be the one to replace my Clie 710 (no brand wars, please), but there will definitely be an ARM machne in my future, and the future is looking pretty cool.

Okay, well, just my $0.02

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
ahecht @ 7/12/2002 7:11:01 PM #
"If you look closely at the name "Oslo" (in the big picture) you can see that there has been some type of smudging that conceals the rest of the name. Could this be just a hoax?"

No, the rest was a serial number which was hidden to protect the person who took the pics.

RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 9:28:24 PM #
I got to agree the smudge was to cover up a serial number. Jason Dunn from Pocket PC Thoughts was asked to submit the original photo without an edited serial number, which he hasn't. Personally, I don't like the design, it doesn't seem to be practical, like many say, I prefer VG in able to support a larger screen. I submit though, that what everyone is assuming as the speaker may be the microphone while the speaker is on the back like the sony's. Although, if that is a speaker, I hope it has headphone jack. In this case I'm interested in the Palm, but I'm much more interested in what's under the hood instead of the device itself.
RE: Dorky new Palm revealed
Altema @ 7/12/2002 10:33:38 PM #
"...that made it terribly easy to maneuver through your information in the basic apps using just the four-directions-and-select buttons of the "gamepad"?"

Now you're cookin'! A solution to the missing jog wheel which also avoids any patent infringement on the Sony design, and also gets rid of the right-handed bias of having it on the side. A face plate mounted navigation control. And it would be feasable to have it control a mouse pointer as well, like the pointer feature in the new PPK driver. Sounds interesting to me if it pans out. If not, at least I'd be able to make past two rounds of Defender with that control...

Future Palm

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:02:55 AM #
Wow, I'm surprised I haven't seen any info on a future palm device that was originally shown at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2152. A member of that forum did put that photo up at http://home.earthlink.net/~ahecht/newpalm-large.jpg if you'd like to see it.
RE: Future Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:05:00 AM #
I'm the person who posted above. I just wanted to add that PalmStation (which I thought was dead) has had this story up for a while now, and that's how I originally found it.
RE: Future Palm
ahecht @ 7/13/2002 8:37:54 PM #
That's my website above, and thanks to that link being slashdotted, I've used up my monthly bandwidth allocation. Please use http://www.tpug.org/news/Palm/palm_new_model.jpg instead.

RE: Future Palm-Read My Other Comment at the botom!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 8:49:04 AM #
RE: Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 8:43:59 AM

I had a chance to mess with it this weekend at Motorola. You are right, it does have a Motorola chip. Also has built-in GSM cell phone, 802.11b, Bluetooth. This is awsome, I absoluteley loved it. It is as big as a Toshiba e310, but way better craftsmanship (of course it's a Palm). Comes with user replacable batteries. Just like a Cell Phone. Also back of the unit soft like new Ericsson T68. I want one, can't wait!!!

Gizmo Rat!

RE: Future Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 2:01:11 PM #
Motorola CPU? Bluetooth, 802.11b, and GSM? You're a dirty liar...

Looks neato

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:10:53 AM #
Nice to see Palm coming out with cool hardware for a change. BTW, this story popped up on PPCthoughts yesterday... it's strange that none of the Palm sites had anything about it until now. I'm not used to getting Palm news at a PPC site :-)
RE: Looks neato
Palm_Otaku @ 7/12/2002 1:12:46 PM #
It's not *that* strange that it showed up on a non-Palm focussed site first. The manufacturers sometimes provide per-production units to select developers (sometimes known as PVT units) who are bound by non-disclosure agreements. On occasion, someone who has access to these units will leak a photo, and on this occasion it was to PocketPCThoughts.com There are a number of developers who *could* leak info to any site they choose, but who actually honor their agreements.

The Palm Inc. lawyers who contacted Jason at PPCT asked for the unadulterated image which shows the unique serial number on it. If Jason complies, then that development shop is in trouble!

I'm kinda surprised that Palm Inc. hasn't contacted PIC with a request to remove the photo yet. (Of course, once it's out on the net you can't put the genie back in the bottle!)

RE: Looks neato
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:28:07 PM #
I like to think of it more as: you can't take the pee out of the pool

:)

A few thoughts

Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:19:29 AM #
I posted the following message on PocketPCThoughts about a minute before the story finally appeared here. Interesting.

-----------------------------

1) Kudos to Pocket PC Thoughts for breaking this story. It's a sad day when a Pocket PC fan site breaks the story of a new Palm device. What I find even more sad (pathetic, really) is that as of right now, PalmInfoCenter still hasn't made mention of it (though they've since posted other new news items). My guess would be that either Ed over there has already seen the device (and signed an NDA) or that the Palm lawyers contacted him proactively once the story was published here. Nevertheless, he ought to at least publish a news item stating something like "Pocket PC Thoughts revealed pictures of what appears to be the next Palm device. According to their site, lawyers quickly contacted them to tell them to remove the pictures, etc." To completely ignore the story altogether is pretty pathetic.

2) I thought about this design some more last night and I came up with another theory about that sliding section. I have a strong feeling that I may really be on to it this time. People here are guessing that the sliding area, when closed, shortens the device. I don't think so. What I think is that the sliding area covers up the input area but that the device still stays the same length. Why do such a thing? To improve on one of the major design problems with PPC's when playing games. By putting the joypad at the bottom of the device, it makes it very akward to hold. Take a look at an old-style Gameboy and you'll see that there's a large empty section below the joypad and buttons. This is for your palms to rest on, making the device much more comfortable to hold and play. I think that that's what Palm, Inc. may be doing here with this device. Unfortunately, they did not improve on the other major design problem I've seen with joypads on PPCs (and one of my biggest gripes). They still stuck it in the middle. I'm not sure I buy into the concept that this really even improves things for left-handed people. Left-handers get used to using things in a right-handed world. Buy an X-Box or PS2 and you'll get the joypad on the left and the buttons on the right. IMO, the large decrease in usability for the majority far outweighs the small increase in usability for the minority.

Scott

RE: A few thoughts
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:23:17 AM #
BTW, sorry if I offended Ed, here. I usually try to give someone the benefit of the doubt. To us geeks, getting a news story out 16 hours late (or whatever it was) can seem very slow.

Scott

RE: A few thoughts
Ed @ 7/12/2002 10:24:34 AM #
It's funny how elaborate conspiracy theories can sometimes be deflated with simple explanations. My (censored) next-door neighbor cut through my cable line while planting shrubs and it is taking my (doubly censored) cable company an eternity to get my cable modem fixed. This has left me with no other way to work besides the public library. I'm glad I can get some work done at all but I can only do so for a few hours a day.

BTW, this also means I have no way to spell check any of the articles I run. Please be patient with me; I'm doing the best I can in trying conditions.

---
News Editor

RE: A few thoughts
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:35:39 AM #
To sum up, we all need to get a life. ;)

Scott

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:35:56 AM #
Given Palm's recent experiments with thumb-boards and Handspring's revelation that deep down we all really want them, I wouldn't be surprised if this space isn't for a keyboard. I also don't think the overall length of the device would be changed; I think there will probably be a snap-on keyboard that REPLACES the graffiti area...

Two caveats:
1, The above is mindless speculation on my part
2, That picture looks awfully shady - a bit like someone took pictures of the new Toshiba PPC, a mock-up of a Handera and an m515 and spliced them together, in the style of the ficticious new "New New-ton" that we saw a few months ago.

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:43:15 AM #
OK Here we go;
Its a Palm OS5 device, ARM running at 170mhz, 32mb, 320x480 screen, slide and hide virtual graffiti, which exposes a thumb board, D-Pad, head phone jack on top for mp3,1 sd slot, speaker for voice playback and microphone, will come with bluetooth stereo headphones-L&R.

~

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:57:05 AM #
"OK Here we go;
Its a Palm OS5 device, ARM running at 170mhz, 32mb, 320x480 screen, slide and hide virtual graffiti, which exposes a thumb board, D-Pad, head phone jack on top for mp3,1 sd slot, speaker for voice playback and microphone, will come with bluetooth stereo headphones-L&R."

I think that must be pure speculation, and bad speculation at that. If the device is real, it clearly has a hard-graffitti area, not virtual. If there's no virtual graffitti, that means 320x320 res at best. ARM chip plausible, 32 meg likely. Thumb board? Nah. MP3? Maybe, but I wouldn't put money on it. Headphone jack? If there's MP3, sure. Voice recording? Not a huge priority, but it's a slim possibility. But Bluetooth headphones? Not f*****G chance. That would be far too expensive to include with the unit. I haven't seen any BT headphones developed anywhere, and I don't think that Palm would be the first to put them out there.

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:11:55 PM #
"I haven't seen any BT headphones developed anywhere"

Then you obviously don't know much about Bluetooth :) They've been out for months, for example this one from Ericsson:

http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=ERIC_HBH-15

RE: A few thoughts
He||Raiser @ 7/12/2002 2:05:27 PM #
Those are not headphones, that is a headset for your telephone. In addition, it seems unlikely that Palm would include such an expensive device with the unit. Even after removing the microphone, you still have to deal with creating the stereo setup. And since no stereo bluetooth headphones have been created yet, Palm would have to carry the development cost. I share the above poster's feelings when I quote "Not [a] f*****G chance."

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:21:13 PM #
Hmm... you definitely can get bluetooth headsets (mic and speaker of course!) for the latest Motorola phones... only they cost a bomb, of course :).
RE: A few thoughts
abosco @ 7/12/2002 11:47:26 PM #
OK here we go-

It's a Palm OS 5 ARM based unit on TI's OMAP processor at 206 mhz. 320x320 pixels, 16 bit color display, 32 mb, sd slot, universal connector, mp3 player, speaker with high quality sound, headphone jack, and a slider that can slide over the graffiti area to make the unit as small as an m100. It is not for an attachable keyboard, nor does it slide up to reveal a keyboard. That would be an absolutely DUMB*** design, and Palm has always been good about keeping their devices small and sleek. Talk to y'all later.

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 12:54:35 PM #
Your speculation looks good, except for the MP3 player. I see little chance that Palm would include an MP3 player in a device. Look at their track record: historically, Palm provides the hardware and lets developers write the software. Take for example how no Palm comes with built in word processor, spreadsheet, or any thing but the basic applications.
RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 12:57:00 PM #
A wonder if anyone's thought of this:

Suppose Palm decides to include a low tech removable keypad piece that simply presses on the graffiti area to register keypresses? Then they could include software that works similarly to Silkypad to interpret the presses on the graffiti area.

This seems like a low-cost possibility for a keyboard, although I know it might have a couple flaws. For instance, it wouldn't be able to register 2 simultaneous keypresses. However, if you look at it simply as an accessory for data input, and not the control of the whole system (like the Treo 90), I think it would be a positive idea.

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 1:40:09 PM #
Not a bad thought -- and possibly an interesting 3rd party aftermarket idea as well. The one thing that makes me think that it's not technically easy (perhaps because of the making that many buttons work in such a tiny keypress area that's designed as a touch-sensitive device rather than straight-to-electrode connection) is that nobody has come out with one before. All the 3rd party keyboards plug in to the serial port of the Palms. I'm not saying that it's not possible, just that it may be difficult given that the primary purpose of the graff area is to respond to touch, and a keyboard that snaps on might have a difficult time making sufficiently precise touches.

OTOH your idea would mean that the new unit would do both things that people are talking about here; it would make the d-pad slide-down-able, while allowing room for a snap on keyboard. Let's hope that if that's not what Palm is already planning, that someone else can come up with it soon!

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 5:28:27 PM #
>>The one thing that makes me think that it's not technically easy (perhaps because of the making that many buttons work in such a tiny keypress area that's designed as a touch-sensitive device rather than straight-to-electrode connection) is that nobody has come out with one before. All the 3rd party keyboards plug in to the serial port of the Palms.

Somebody has done this:
http://www.thumbtype.com/features.html

RE: A few thoughts
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 7:15:54 PM #
It seems pretty obvious from the photo that the button area slides up and down. If you look at the transition where the top of the unit necks down to the graffiti area there is nice continuous bevel. The transition from the graffiti area into the button area, however, has an obvious parting line which means these are two different pieces. The question isn't whether or not the buttons slide but what's under them?
Bluetooth Headsets: Motorola, Nokia, Ericsson (3), GN Netcom
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 3:56:27 AM #
As if WiFi is free????? Bluetooth is a much younger technology (wifi: 1990/bluetooth: mid 90's) than WiFi.....overhype (of Bluetooth) is why people have no patient. Patience required.

Bluetooth Headsets: Motorola, Nokia, Ericsson (3), GN Netcom (coming: Jabra (2), Plantronics, NextLink)
www.blueunplugged.com/main.asp?option=productrange&catID=3

If I can't push buttons with my stylus I won't buy it.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:29:39 AM #
It's really that simple.
RE: If I can't push buttons with my stylus I won't buy it.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:36:47 AM #
Are your fingers broken? ;-)
RE: If I can't push buttons with my stylus I won't buy it.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:44:52 AM #
We really don't care if you'll buy it or not.
RE: If I can't push buttons with my stylus I won't buy it.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 5:52:07 PM #
Give the guy a break! If my MRS doesn't let me touch her buttons with my stylus, I'm not intersested
RE: If I can't push buttons with my stylus I won't buy it.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 2:05:26 AM #
I thought that was a stupid reason for bit**ing about buttons too, until I got my M505 and actually did it... My Clie's stylus would 'roll' off the buttons, but the M505's buttons accept my stylus without question. :)

release the inuendo dogs!

The picture is a fake!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:31:11 AM #
There is no frame on bottom edge of the screen.
RE: The picture is a fake!
Phil @ 7/12/2002 10:49:49 AM #
????? What do you mean?

By the way: if it was fake Palm wouldn´t have taken actions against the pictures, don´t you think so?!

Phil

RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:50:53 AM #
I compared the area you are talking about with the one on my m505 and they look almost the same. If this is a hoax, it is the best I've ever seen.
RE: The picture is a fake!
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:52:12 AM #
"By the way: if it was fake Palm wouldn´t have taken actions against the pictures, don´t you think so?!"

Actually, if I was a company that wanted to keep my plans ultra-private and someone concocted a fake mockup I'd probably have my lawyers contact them just so as to make people _think_ that it was real, thus keeping the really real device a surprise.

That said, I don't think that they're that clever. And this picture looks quite real.

Scott

RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:59:23 AM #
If you want the best example that the pic is a fake, look at how it supposedly fits in the hotsync cradle. I have *never* had any of my palms not mesh up cleanly. You couldn't even put a thick business card between the unit and the cradle it meshes so well. This looks like a partner cradle and with a bogus unit & photoshop hack job.

Am I sure, no. Queries though: Did Palm really tell PPC Thoughts to take down the pics? What proof do we have other than their word.

Did Palm ask PIC to pull the pictures originally?

Has anyone else had the fortune of seeing OS5 running on a piece of hardware yet?

Where is the power button on the unit? Palm puts these buttons on the front of the unit. I see the power LED, which isn't lit up coincidentally, but not power button.

Anybody else notice some little things that just don't seem right for a palm unit?

Inglix

RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:22:09 AM #
One thing is very hard to fake in this picture.

If you look at the top "Palm logo button" and consider the reflection/lighting, it matches the greazy finger glare and lighting direction on the screen.

If this guy photoshop it, he is VERY good.

RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:32:30 AM #
"If you want the best example that the pic is a fake, look at how it supposedly fits in the hotsync cradle. I have *never* had any of my palms not mesh up cleanly."

Can't you see that the sliding section is in its "down" position? That's not the bottom of the unit you are looking at, only the bottom of the sliding section.

"I see the power LED, which isn't lit up coincidentally, but not power button."

Try saying "alarm LED". And can't the power button be under the sliding section? Or on top or a side of the unit? Sheesh, use a little imagination! Palm might actually change the location of the power button on their next unit. If that confuses you, certainly avoid buying it when it comes out.

RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:55:41 AM #
"Anybody else notice some little things that just don't seem right for a palm unit?"

Yes; far too much innovation.

The picture looks real to me.
Palm_Otaku @ 7/12/2002 12:57:36 PM #
Perhaps the power button is the round Palm logo that is top center? Maybe it's on the top of the unit?

The comment about the unit not "meshing up cleanly in the cradle" is incorrect: any of the devices that use the universal connector (i.e. m5xx, i705, m125/130)have a clearance gap.



RE: The picture is a fake!
ahecht @ 7/12/2002 9:27:48 PM #
Remember all the people who insisted that the m130 was a hoax and pointed out all the "mistakes" in the pictures of it? If I just took a picture of my Palm Vx, I'm sure people would be able to find "proof" that it was a hoax too.


RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 4:40:36 PM #
the artist made just one little mistake - but this is defenatly a giveaway. IF THE UNIT HAS A SLIDE DOWN PART AT THE BOTTOM OF IT, THEN HOW CAN IT SIT IN THE CRADEL - Standing ON ITS BOTTOM????? Dont you think that the wheight of the unit would of pushed down the palm, and CLOSE the pull-down peice????????

Sorry, beter luck next time

(p.s. Dear artist- i cant help being so aneletic, being a private investigater for 25+ years, its just natral)
(p.p.s. if you want you can show me your artwork next time befor you put it out. Maby i can help you, and then you can really fool the world)
(p.p.s. my rates are not bad)

RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 5:34:32 PM #
>>the artist made just one little mistake - but this is defenatly a giveaway. IF THE UNIT HAS A SLIDE DOWN PART AT THE BOTTOM OF IT, THEN HOW CAN IT SIT IN THE CRADEL - Standing ON ITS BOTTOM????? Dont you think that the wheight of the unit would of pushed down the palm, and CLOSE the pull-down peice????????

Dear P.I - although it is possible that somebody with way too much time on his hands has done a good job faking this unit, the odds are far more likely that you are going to look like a complete idiot when it comes out in a couple of months. Oh yeah - why is it that the weight of the unit would push the device closed? Nobody would design a unit that way. It would click into place and require effort greater then the weight of the unit to close - this would hardly take cutting edge NASA engineering to achieve.

RE: The picture is a fake!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 6:48:43 PM #
The only possibility I can see for this unit is a keyboard underneath the buttons. If the unit simply collapses to reduce the overall size, then where are the mechanicals for the applicaion buttons and navigation disk? (I too think the guy who said the unit would collapse in the cradle is on the right track. If gravity didn't cause it to collapse then insertion likely would...provided that there isn't a locking feature.) Assuming for a moment that it's for real, then I suspect the slide carries the buttons up and down but the keyboard and graffiti area are used to record input.

The other possibility is that the whole thing is a fake which wouldn't be too difficult to do. This is the kind of thing industrial design students create all the time as part of their normal coursework. (And who has more time on their hands to create something like this than a student? I have to say the screen looks a little dodgy, espically the division beteen the screen and the grafitti area which shows no shadow or discontinuity. The serial number in the photo would likely be a photoshop add-on done by the creator or someone later as a bit of real-world authenticity.

Sliding bottom, maybe not...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:35:45 AM #
As I mentioned buried elsewhere in this post... do NOT assume that the bottom slides up to cover the grafitti area... it may actually be a clip on area for a keyboard that doesn't increase the width of the unit... Palm has implied and knows many will want both, this unit may give it to them without the bulky clips on other units have, or the lack of dedicated grafitti space on the new Treos.
RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 10:39:26 AM #
And as I mentioned right after you, I posted this theory first (on PocketPCThoughts). ;)

That said, why can't it be both? You could have a sliding area which, when closed, either makes the device shorter or simply exposes an empty area for your palms to rest on while playing games. When slid open, you could snap on an optional thumbboard over the Graffiti area. I think this would be nice as it would provide (again) area below the thumbboard for your palms to rest on, thus improving usability.

Scott

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
Phil @ 7/12/2002 10:40:31 AM #
Sorry, but that makes no sense. If I don´t have a keyboard the Palm will look just ugly and when you take it our of your pocket itwill get stuck (because of the edges).

I think it will slide so you´ll have the smallest (also probably not the thinnest) Palm ever. Think about it: How often do you use graffiti? Most of the time you will look up appointments or read AvantGo.

By the way: I was looking forward to a D-pad for a while. When this unit comes out I´ll say goodby to my Sony´s JogDial.

Phil

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
Boze @ 7/12/2002 10:41:26 AM #
I think you could be right. If you look closely, you will notice that the Palm is in a cradle. It seems like it would be difficult for the device to sit in a cradle like this with a sliding section open....

====
Boze
====
RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
Phil @ 7/12/2002 10:46:36 AM #
It is probably pulled out for presentation purpose.

Phil

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:00:44 AM #
I think this makes more sense. It's actually a really great idea. Have both options without much sacrafice. I don't see how the screen is 320x320? Looks 160x160 to me.
RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
Phil @ 7/12/2002 11:03:57 AM #
The software does not support HR. But the fond and the button a definetly HR.

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:04:19 AM #
"By the way: I was looking forward to a D-pad for a while. When this unit comes out I´ll say goodby to my Sony´s JogDial."

That thumb pad is not a jog dial replacement. Think about it: (assuming you're right handed) to use that thumb pad you'll need to hold the Palm with your left hand to support it as you use your right hand to use the thumb pad. However, with the jog dial, you hold the CLIE in your left hand and operate the scroll and select options in one hand - which leaves your right hand to do other things, such as operate the phone or hold the stylus to write.

I too like the idea of a thumb pad on a PDA, however, not when it's in the middle like that and so close to the bottom edge: you can't operate the PDA one-handed (e.g. for a quick look up) when the thumb pad is so badly positioned.

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
Phil @ 7/12/2002 11:14:17 AM #
That´s what I thought, too, before I got my T625c. But now I find myself using this (censored) up-and-down button more often than the JogDial. Don´t know why. And now I wish I hat the 505-rocker back. Funny, isn´t it?!

Phil

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:23:27 AM #
Perhaps the bottom section is a slide. In the open position it allows access to graffiti, closed a thumboard? Most people don't use graffiti and thumboard at the same time.
RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:25:52 AM #
"That´s what I thought, too, before I got my T625c."

I've got a T625C and have never used the up and down button! That is the worst design mistake Sony has ever made (it's a close call between the buttons on the T series and the T425's screen) - and I've owned 3 Vaios, Network Walkman, Music Clip, NetMD, Minidisc, and Walkman!

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
Phil @ 7/12/2002 11:32:38 AM #
You are right (that´s why I wrote "this *#!?(&'# up-and-down button).

But as long as a lot of apps do not support the jog (e.g. AvantGo) I don´t have no choice (as long as I don´t want to sroll line by line).

Phil

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
jamuka @ 7/12/2002 11:40:36 AM #
It seems very unlikely if it were a sliding graffiti cover that it could sit uncovered in the cradle.

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 12:08:35 PM #
well if the unit is thick enough and the sliding D-pad is hollow (no back side). It could easily slide down while it sits in the cradle.
RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:14:06 PM #
It's definitely a sliding bottom, if the 3D rendered images over at http://www.pdabuzz.com are to be believed.

Slide on this, dimwits!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 2:23:28 PM #
What a bunch of IQs!

Don't ANY of you realize that if the bottom slides UP, the frigging STYLUS is going to have to be VERY FRIGGING SHORT?!

Go to a store and see the Sharp Zaurus. It has a stylus that can only be loved by midgets (not dwarves; midgets).

RE: Sliding bottom, maybe not...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 6:45:37 PM #
>>Don't ANY of you realize that if the bottom slides UP, the frigging STYLUS is going to have to be VERY FRIGGING SHORT?!

Based on the comparison shot between the 'doctored' closed photo of this unit and an m515, the stylus could be almost the same size as current palm stylus.

RE: Sliding bottom, FOR SURE!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 3:22:49 AM #
look at your palm. do you think there is enough space for you to put on a keyobard on the graffitti space? I don't think so

I think we know the size...

raak @ 7/12/2002 10:39:10 AM #
Just looking at the pic, you see the Palm is sitting in a hotsync cradle, which looks exactly like the one for my m505 (remember, they're keeping the universal connector??!!?!)...

So, if someone's willing to do the calculations, I'm sure one can figure out the height and width of the machine (and figure out how small it is when the graffiti area slides in).

RE: I think we know the size...
raak @ 7/12/2002 10:50:25 AM #
(and figure out how small it is when the graffiti area slides in).

On second thought, perhaps it should be:

(and figure out how small it is when (IF) the graffiti area slides in).

:)

RE: I think we know the size...
Foo Fighter @ 7/12/2002 10:56:44 AM #
It looks like the exact same dimensions as the Sony Clie N760

Multimedia...finally!?!?

Foo Fighter @ 7/12/2002 10:50:10 AM #
I sincerely hope Palm has finally seen the light by adding multimedia features to this, and other upcoming high-end handhelds. MP3 playback - a REAL video player perhaps?

It's time to push the Palm platform out of the dark ages and into the 21st Century. Come on Palm!

RE: Multimedia...finally!?!?
atrizzah @ 7/12/2002 9:26:36 PM #
If trends in Palm handhelds continue, the new hardware will allow that type of thing, but Palm will leave it up to the developers to actually implement it. And that's just the way I like it.

Peace Out
Alan
RE: Multimedia...finally!?!?
Foo Fighter @ 7/12/2002 11:08:36 PM #
atrizzah, I'm talking about built-in MP3 audio player support through a headphone jack. It's up to Palm to stay competitive with other PDA vendors such as Sony and Compaq. This new device will most likely sell for $449 or higher. At that price, I would expect multimedia features.

RE: Multimedia...finally!?!?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 5:09:15 AM #
Well, this is definately a multimedia device. I wonder why nobody else has commented on the large woofer in the lower part of this Palm. I wonder where they put the other 4 speakers?


Looks like a Nokia-Palm ;-)

Phil @ 7/12/2002 10:58:14 AM #
RE: Looks like a Nokia-Palm ;-)
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 7:47:10 PM #
I am all with you, I think Palm is getting the idea, from Nokia and Sharp, this eliminates expensive leather or metal covers. Maybe everything collapses on top of each other and the Palm becomes a tiny little metal case for it self, We'll see within couple of months...


RE: Looks like a Nokia-Palm ;-)
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 8:24:46 PM #
I thought when everything collapses you need to call tech support instead ....

D Pad Great for Gamers

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:54:24 AM #
The only thing that is unique about this device is the D pad which will be great for games. Other than that, Palm needs to switch to a hi-res screen with a virtual grafitti area. If this thing doesn't collapse, than it will be a very strange looking device with clip on accessories, such as keyboard, camera, GPS, bluetooth, etc. Not very elegant or SIMPLE, which i thought was Palm's philosophy, not.
RE: D Pad Great for Gamers
Foo Fighter @ 7/12/2002 11:04:04 AM #
>"Palm needs to switch to a hi-res screen"

It is a Hi-Res screen. 320x320.

Still, I wish the graffiti space were soft-based (collapsible) like the NR70.

RE: D Pad Great for Gamers
ardee @ 7/12/2002 11:25:24 AM #
The article says 360x360 where I think it means 320x320.


RE: D Pad Great for Gamers
hotpaw4 @ 7/12/2002 1:20:19 PM #
Maybe it's not a directional pad but a rotary dial with a button in the middle like the Apple iPod uses? This could replace both the up/down scroll buttons and a jog dial. It would be better than a jog dial for left-handers, and allow one to look up phone numbers and such with the Graffiti area closed. More innovation... from Apple!

RE: D Pad Great for Gamers
atrizzah @ 7/12/2002 9:29:06 PM #
From the full size picture, it looks to be a D-Pad. If it were a rotary thingy, that wouldn't fare too well for gamers. I remember a comment being made earlier about a future Palm unit stating that Palm finally built a unit with gamers in mind, so I think that further indicates a D-Pad.

Furthermore, according to a rendering from PDA Buzz, the Graffiti area is, in fact, collapsable. I really want an optional keyboard pad to be able to go here. In addition, when collapsed, this would have to be the smallest unit yet.

Peace Out
Alan

Image of ''Oslo'' Closed

big_raji @ 7/12/2002 11:02:00 AM #
I just did a quick photoshop job on the above image, just to see how this would look closed up.

http://raj.phangureh.com/oslo.jpg

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Image of
Phil @ 7/12/2002 11:08:50 AM #
Nice, thanx alot.

Lokks like a winner to me.

I just wish it had virtual grafitti and build in bluetooth (is it to much also to ask for Wi-Fi?). But maybe Sony will so that ;-)

Phil

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:13:46 AM #
not possible.

It won't fit a big battery in such small device. And Palm is not exactly an expert at "battery" saving technology. Their idea of saving battery is to reduce screen brightness and not putting a backlight on grafitti area. Now that they have additional load for audio system, i seriously doubt there is enough battery to also put CF slot and built-in wireless. (you think SONY can only get several ours on latest T class, wait until this one come out)

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
big_raji @ 7/12/2002 11:24:56 AM #
I just updated the picture. I made a side-by-side with an image of a palm m515, and resized both so that they had identical screen sizes. The size of the Oslo closed is just a little bit smaller than the size of the m515.

It looks very possible.

http://raj.phangureh.com/oslo-m515.jpg

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 11:24:57 AM #
I don't think that 802.11b is possible due to battery limitations. Furthermore, I'd rather have Bluetooth anyway (which is lower-power). Of course, we also need a lot more Bluetooth-enabled cell phones to make this useful. All I want is a Motorola Startac flip-phone equipped with Bluetooth (and maybe 3G, though due to the excessive costs of 3G usage, for now I'd be happy using old-fashioned slower data).

Scott

RE: Big_Raji: What's Wrong!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:35:51 AM #
Big_Raji,
Why do you keep posting the "What's Wrong With This Picture?" link. You're going to give somebody a heart-attack.
For those who don't know what it is, it's a picture of a room with a desk and other furniture, etc. in it, there is text at the top of the web page that tells you to turn your speaker volume up loud because that will help you figure out what's wrong, then after about 30 seconds of staring at this quiet picture, an image of a screaming person is flashed on the screen and a loud scream is played through your speakers. Real funny-NOT!
RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
big_raji @ 7/12/2002 11:43:41 AM #
Sorry man, it's my signature. I actually forgot I was putting that link in there.

When I think of a good signature, I'll change it. :)

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:57:18 AM #
"For those who don't know what it is.... Real funny-NOT!"

Dude! Are you kidding? I thought it was hilarious the first time I saw it. Don't go ruining it for everyone else!

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 12:06:57 PM #
Your photoshopped images are insteresting but I don't think I agree with the m515. If your scale is correct than this thing is going to be way too thick.

Try doing a comparison of when the screen is the size of the m130. This may be more realistic.

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
big_raji @ 7/12/2002 12:19:03 PM #
Perhaps somebody can take/provide some real pictures of a Palm m1XX device and a Palm m5XX device side by side? I have no idea how big an m130 is in comparison to an m515, so it would be difficult for me to do a 3-way split screen to compare the sizes.

I don't have any Palm brand devices, so can't take any real photos of my own.

---
For all the people that have suffered through my "What's Wrong With This Picture" Signature:
http://www.americanheart.org

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
Bartman007 @ 7/12/2002 12:19:15 PM #
Awww you wrecked the suprise...

I first saw that page at about 2:30 in the morning. I had turned up my surround sound speaker system quite a bit because I didn't hear anything... All of the sudden: AHHHHHHH!!!!!

It scared the crap out of me (not literally) but didn't wake my family (suprising..)

I have sent soooooo many friends to that site and it still is a funny as it was the first time....


-Bartman007

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:45:17 PM #
that signature of yours in NOT-FUNNY .....
RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:47:57 PM #
ROFL from your new sig. I pretty much DID get heart attack from your "What's Wrong with this Picture?"

It's one of those things that I can laugh about NOW.

I guess I should say something on-topic. Uhhh... It looks like Palm is putting style on the backburner again. The side-by-side with the 515 really shows how boxy and dreary this thing is. And that color is putrid. Much like the Treo 300. Since when did Puke Gold become the "in" color?

Also, with the sliding mechanism, I think it will be harder to put a rail on the side for cases. I guess the rail will stop where the screen stops?

RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:52:22 PM #
Me again. Check that. It's not gold at all. I guess I'm just hallucinating. But it's still boxy.
RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:11:06 PM #
I wonder how many people have died from that "whats wrong with this picture" thing.
RE: Image of ''Oslo'' Closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:43:13 AM #
wow raji, that was really pretty awesome. even on this sh.tty notebook with bottle-cap speakers, it made me jump.

(sorry for coming late to the party, i just had to say something)

Screen Size

LiveFaith @ 7/12/2002 10:45:58 AM #
OK, here I go again ... with my nagging question.

Why on God's green earth does Palm not work toward fixing one of the (if not the) major withdrawals in a handheld device? SCREEN SIZE AND VIEWABILITY! (Data entry is another)

Take a look at this device and guess at what % of "real estate" is useful screen area. My non-scientific calculation shows a paltry 33.7% of unit "real estate" for use as screen area. This assuming that the slider covers something underneath, which seems to be the case considering how it sets in the universal connector cradle.

I'm sorry, but this is pitiful. Imagine 100% of the device "real estate" in screen. Thats 3 times the viewing area! I know buttons and other considerations make this difficult, but imagine 67% which would double the screen area.

Spreadsheets, maps, photos, datebook, e-books, doodle pads, phone info, web pages, word documents, database info, games, e-mail, phone-pads and the launcher would all be radically better ... RADICALLY. the technology is there, OS 5 gives the platform for it and what do we get? 33% screen real estate! Pitiful IMHO.

I hope beyond hope that Palm OS 5 itself is not the limiting factor so that Palm or others can take advantage of what seems to me to be the obvious.

Tired of squinting to read the bible on my awesome m505.

Ed, thanks for the great site.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Screen Size
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:21:16 AM #
Screen size is limited by battery size. If you doubled the size of the screen, you cut battery life close to half; The processor uses a chunk, too. If you compensate by adding a bigger battery, your PDA becomes too big and heavy.

Cost is a factor, too. Doubling the size of the screen would more than double the price of the screen, already far and away the most expensive part of a PDA. Few will buy a $700 PDA; look at the PPC or Newton.

RE: Screen Size
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:20:53 PM #
If you want more screen real estate, try a HandEra, the new Sony NR70, or a Pocket PC !!!
RE: Screen Size
LiveFaith @ 7/12/2002 2:45:57 PM #
The battery life defense certainly seems plausible in that Sony T, Palm m5x5 etc reflectives eat power like it's going out of style with edge lights on.

What is hard to imagine is that a "tiny" screen with a maximum size of 2.75" x 4" (11 square inch) is hard to justify being high price. Laptops for less than $999 have 13-14" diagonal size screens. I'm sure the tech is significantly different in bulk, power usage and lighting, but that's approx 700-800 square inches!

I just think that this screen issue is a place for someone to really get a huge jump on the pack. I love the simplicity durability and functional convenience of my wife's m100. The only hang up was that the screen got smaller. m1xx has never gotten a second look since.

Imagine a "full" screen device @ Circuit City setting beside one of the current 1/2 screen devices.
Gratefully the pix show that Palm has at least gone to high rez. The archane static graffiti area on a OS 5 device belies my imagination tho.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Screen Size
atrizzah @ 7/12/2002 9:22:27 PM #
Your arguement seems logical, but I don't think its realistic. Keep in mind for one thing that a PDA is designed to last multiple days on a charge, while a powerful laptop lasts only a couple hours. Also, remember that PDA's have significantly greater DPI's than laptops and that their batteries are significantly smaller. As technology progresses, however, I'm sure we'll begin to see that type of thing.

Peace Out
Alan
RE: Screen Size
Altema @ 7/12/2002 11:11:47 PM #
Not all transflective devices eat an unreasonable amount of power with the frontlights on, and with the lights off they can outlast a some of the monochrome devices. A bigger screen requiring more lighting would have a negative impact on battery life though...

To the original poster; All the Bible apps I have seen allow you to set the font size (normal, bold, large). If your particular app does not allow that function, perhaps you should switch to one that does. Note that with the M505, the readability decreases when the device is angled away from you, such as when it is flat on a table and you are sitting in a chair looking down on it. It looks a lot better when it is perpendicular to your line of sight.

RE: Screen Size
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 7:14:20 AM #
OK, so keep the screen size the same, but shrink everything else. Why is there so much plastic relative to the display. Ideally I'd like a PC-card sized unit, with a screen frame of just a couple of millimeters - ie the whole unit is a display, aside from a couple of millimeters of surround.
RE: Screen Size
atrizzah @ 7/13/2002 1:14:42 PM #
I think that's a pretty unreasonable statement. Think of everything that must be contained in the device: CPU, mainboard, videocontroller, speaker, mic (in some cases), serial hardware, battery (big time), and the list goes on. Believe it or not, Palms like this, the Treo 90, the Handera 330, and the Sony NRs really are pushing the envelope on how much you can cram into that small of a box for a reasonable amount of money. On a side note, you know they do make Rolodex PDA's that fit in a PCMCIA slot. If what your saying is that they should make a Palm OS device to compete with that, well then maybe I see what your saying. Just don't expect it to match up to well to what we see in current Palm handhelds.

Peace Out
Alan

Screen cover concept

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:14:48 AM #
If the bottom does slide up, it would be way cool if there was a spring-loaded screen cover that would be latched down by the slider. Pull down the slider, and *bing* the cover flips up automatically.
RE: Screen cover concept
Phil @ 7/12/2002 11:17:31 AM #
And *bing* after a 100 times the spring flies away ;-)

Phil

RE: Screen cover concept
jjsoh @ 7/12/2002 11:27:31 AM #
LOL. Prety funny. ;;)


Jim
RE: Screen cover concept
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 2:45:30 AM #
Yeah, had me LOLing too! Funny stuff. To be honest, I love it when PIC gets these rumors and "mystery" pictures. All the whackos come out of the woodwork. People come up with the best suggestions. While some people complain about this kind of speculation, for me, it's the reason I visit this board all the time. Keep the rumors coming Ed!

AllanM

RE: Screen cover concept
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 3:22:06 AM #
HAHAHA ......

Wireless

davidkshepherd @ 7/12/2002 11:20:42 AM #
Hmm,
just noticed the Star Icon (top right grafitti) Does that mean it's a wireless device ?
Could be promising.


RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:23:03 AM #
No - brightness of the backlight.
RE: Wireless
davidkshepherd @ 7/12/2002 11:28:55 AM #
Not the little one...
The big 5 point star (where the calculator one is one my M505).


RE: Wireless
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 11:29:27 AM #
Good catch! Yes, that's the favorites icon I think (that's what they use it for on the i705, right?). Based on that, I'd guess that it is, indeed, wireless in some way or another. This could mean either Bluetooth, mobitex (ala i705), or perhaps wireless phone (CDMA or GSM).

Scott

RE: Wireless
Ed @ 7/12/2002 11:33:14 AM #
While the i705 was the first to use the star icon in place of the calc one, I don't think it is a sign that this is also a wireless model. I don't see any sign of an antenna.

I think Palm has realized that many, many people reprogram the Calc Button to be something else. So, instead of showing a picture of a calulator, they have switched to using the Star.

---
News Editor

RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:47:14 AM #
It's good you're running this site instead of some of your readers, Ed!

"Yep, Vern, a star must mean it's wireless!" (read with extreme sarcasm)

Think, people, think!

RE: Wireless
Scott R @ 7/12/2002 11:47:44 AM #
Ah, I just remembered that the star maps to your favorite single application, right? Also, the device does not have dedicated hard buttons for email or anything, so I'd rule out i705-style wireless. I'd also expect some dedicated hard buttons for phone usage if it was a cell phone. All that being said, Bluetooth is still a possibility.

RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:56:33 AM #
Could it be a bluetooth model? People seem to be assuming that its not, but there is no indication that that is the fact. It has a "favorites" button, but it does not have the i705's "email" button, which makes me think that perhaps this is a bluetooth ready device making it internet 'ready' (with the favorites icon) but not internet 'capable' out of the box (hence no email button).
As to what the slide/bottom half, is all about I have no idea. Thumboard hider, gamepad rester? In any case it makes no sense that this machine is going to "collapse" to a size of the m505 unless it is doing something in addition to that unit. Otherwise its going to be slightly larger in one iteration, slightly smaller in the other, but with no obvious benefit to that.
Well i guess we'll all find out in 60 days, right?
:)

RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 12:00:44 PM #
On the HandEra's virtual graffiti screen, the "Calc" icon changes to whatever app you assign to it. So we're used to seeing a different icon there. Some of us have even "redrawn" the entire "silkscreen" area and put pictures and other fun stuff there. "When" Palm finally figures out how to put in a virtual graffiti area, you'll get used to it too!

In the mean time, take a deep breath; it likely doesn't have anything to do with wireless capability (as Ed stated).

RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:55:27 PM #
I don't think this is likely, but I just want to throw it out there...

Since the speaker is at the top, and since the bottom can slide down, could this be a phone? Admittedly, the mouthpiece isn't visible, but it could be on the bottom edge. The D-pad could make it easier to dial numbers on an on-screen number pad without having to get finger grease on the screen. The sliding mechanism could bring the mouthpiece closer to your piehole.

Any takers? Me neither (as Ed pointed out, there doesn't seem to be an antenna) but it's a thought, particularly because of the placement of the speaker.

RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:18:27 PM #
Two more thoughts about the phone idea:

Maybe the sliding button panel is covering a dialing pad?

Maybe they are doing what handspring did with the treo, only in reverse order. Perhaps this is the non-phone version (hence, no antenna and no mouthpiece), and the button panel is hiding a keyboard. And then later they will use the same form factor to release a phone version with an antenna.

Although it occurs to me now that the speaker is where it is so that it doesn't get covered up by the sliding panel, not so that it can be an earpiece.

...Anyway, just throwing ideas out there.

RE: Wireless
Token User @ 7/12/2002 2:52:40 PM #
> Any takers? Me neither (as Ed pointed out, there
> doesn't seem to be an antenna) but it's a thought,
> particularly because of the placement of the speaker.

FWIW - My cellphone (T68 - I hope this is the Bluetooth Palm model I have been waiting for) doesn't appear to have an antenna either. It is possible to build them that way too.

Also, the first OS5 device Palm talked about was a wireless model ... though if it is that close to being released I am surprised we can't find additional details over on the FCC site.


RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 5:15:20 PM #
NO antenna showing, BUT...
Check the upper left corner - it's got the same little "online" indicator the i705 has (or something VERY like it.
RE: Wireless
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:32:36 PM #
If you don't already look like a clown speculating such funny ideas, you definitely will when you try to stick that little corner of the device where the speaker is into your ear.

What is up with the upper right icon?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:19:10 AM #
Is it just me or is the upper right icon in the grafiti area very unusual to depict a calculator?

Do you think this is still the calculator or did they replace the calculator with different functionality?

RE: What is up with the upper right icon?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:45:55 AM #
The star icon is the same as used on the 705. its for favorites I think...

2 Versions?

Boze @ 7/12/2002 11:43:01 AM #
Wouldn't it be a kick in the head (in a good way), if they released a second version of this with a slide out keyboard? It would be like combining the Treo 180/180g strategy and the Sharp Zaurus form factor...

====
Boze
====
RE: 2 Versions?
atrizzah @ 7/13/2002 1:22:34 PM #
Gotta agree with ya there

Peace Out
Alan

Picture Analysis

james_sorenson @ 7/12/2002 11:35:38 AM #
Okay, I examined the two pictures available: one with the slider up and one down.

First off, notice that both are in the cradle. Notice the background pattern behind the Palm? When the slider is covering the graffiti area, you can tell that the Palm is now sitting lower on the cradle. Either the cradle has a deep slot to let the tab sink into (not likely) or the Palm just shrinks down when the button panel is closed (most likely). Sorry, but no hideaway keyboard in there.

Someone says they saw the power LED on the upper-left corner. Why the heck would there be a power LED? If the screen is on, it's on. I'm more inclined to think this is a wireless connection indicator, like on most cell-phones. I could be pushing a pipe-dream, but Palm did say they were working on a SmartPhone.

As best as I can tell, this is definitely a 320x320 screen. Shame on Palm if it isn't. It definately looks like aa real screenshot--glare and all.

My real concern is that this design may mean a flimsy button-pad when it is down. It's either that, or this Palm is pretty thick after two layers. Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me.

I must be unusual, because I actually like the looks of the thing. It's going to be fun trying to fit a case on it, but I'm still looking forward to seeing it.



-------
James Sorenson

RE: Picture Analysis
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 11:55:38 AM #
The LED could also be a charge indicator, like on the Clie T615C.
RE: Picture Analysis
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 12:12:49 PM #
Remember the photo of the unit with the slide 'closed' IS A PHOTOSHOP FAKE made by a user in this group to show us what the unit would look like 'closed'. There is no proof that the unit even closes at all although many think it will. Don't make assumptions about anything other than with the first photo with the grafitti area visible.
RE: Picture Analysis
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:38:16 PM #
I copied the jpeg to my HD and pasted the image into paint (where I can manipulate individual pixels). I then assumed that the frame around the thumbnails was 1 screen pixel which would also match the hashing on the slider bar. The resulting estimate was approx 190 pixel width. Unless the application being run was simply running a doubling routine for the additional screen space the unit is a 160x160.

I'm not thrilled but that's how the numbers worked out.

My $0.02 as always

RE: Picture Analysis
MJGunn @ 7/12/2002 1:45:47 PM #
Its possible the unit can play mp3s, and the light is on when the unit is on "hold", so the screen is off to conserve battery life while you're playing mp3s. Don't the clies do this? This would of course be in addition to being a charge light, and a flashing alarm.

RE: Picture Analysis
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:59:15 PM #
I don't think you should use the hashing on the slider bar as a reference to one pixel. I think a better reference for pixel size would be any curved objects (like the tab on top left of screen) where you can see the bumps. I'm still guessing it's 360x360.
RE: Picture Analysis
bcombee @ 7/14/2002 4:00:12 AM #
If you actually run the Palm OS 5 simulator, you'll see that the new OS draws scroll bars with a double-size hash when in 320x320 mode.

This is because the hash in the background of a scrollbar is drawn with WinFillRectangle with a custom pattern, and the WinSetPattern API sets the pattern in 72dpi (single) density. If you have access to the Palm OS source code, you can verify this by reading ScrollBar.c's implementation of SclDrawScrollBar.

IMHO, the fonts and the roundness of the rectangles proves that this is a 320x320 screen.

--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

the picture says it's 320x320
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 7:51:19 AM #
>it isn't clear from this image whether Oslo has a 320
>by 320 screen or not.

If the pic is not a fake one, you can actually see that the resolution is higher than 160x160 (have a look at fonts). So it should be 320x320 which is a reasonable choice.

* I HOPE THIS IS NOT A FAKE PIC BECAUSE THE DESIGN IS JUST GREAT *

RE: Picture Analysis
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 1:42:01 PM #
>>>I'm still guessing it's 360x360

How does this speculation make into these discussions? it is either 160x160 OR 320x320 - and it looks %90 certain that it is 320x320. I am amazed at how these odd resolutions crop up - 360x360. Guy - if you have been gfolling Palm and the OS - you'd realize why this wouldn't work.

Hmmm...

Lock @ 7/12/2002 11:53:55 AM #
Just a curiosity, where is the Power button?
Maybe if you "open" the device it automatically turns on and when you close it turns off?
hmmm... Not a great idea, I'd like to use "closed".

Any possibility that the "cursor" may have also an iPod-like function? It would be really nice. :]

Anyway, I like it, even if I'm not sure it could be a "Palm model" look... :]

RE: Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 12:19:52 PM #
Well, you could always turn it on with the hardware buttons, like all other Palms. Maybe pressing the d-pad in turns it on without bringing up an application...
RE: Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:00:55 PM #
Perhaps the power button is the center of the pad...
Bye
RE: Hmmm...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:17:36 PM #
Press the blue Palm icon at the top to turn on the unit. Simple as that. Or verbally say on using the microphone to turn on. I also have some swamp land at a great price I want to sell you. ;)

idiots!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:08:55 PM #
all you guys are worried about are the screen and whether it folds in or not? how about speculating about functional specs like which processor (TI?) how fast, how much RAM, multimedia capability, things of slightly greater importance...

and how can u speculate so much about the damn cradle when it's not even in view?

RE: idiots!!!
Foo Fighter @ 7/12/2002 1:38:51 PM #
We already know it's equipped with an ARM processor because it is running OS5.

Multimedia is the only feature I can't distinguish from this pic. I would assume it does offer MP3 playback. If not, then Palm is run by idiots.

RE: idiots!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:02:45 PM #
We can only worry about what we can see. We can't see under the hood. We can't see a spec sheet. Chill out.
RE: idiots!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 1:47:18 PM #
>>>We already know it's equipped with an ARM processor because it is running OS5.

>>>Multimedia is the only feature I can't distinguish from this pic.

Well - Arm processors are made by different companies and range from 50mhz to 400mhz - so just knowing that it runs ARM does not mean you know what it is running on.

Stupid Design.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:12:11 PM #
Go to your nearest Staples and check out the new Zaurus. It has the sliding thing-a-ma-giggy and it looks and feels like crap. Why not Virtual Graffiti? If palm thinks they are going to sell a ton of these units in the U.S then they should re-think the design. And the beta name "oslo", I can smell euro-trash all over that one...anyone remember max-headroom, or Royal with cheese. Hey Palm quit hiring crappy zaurus designers and get them from sony or handspring. You Dumb@ss's
RE: Stupid Design.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:08:45 PM #
Sheesh! Switch to decaf! Loser.
RE: Stupid Design.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:40:55 PM #
Man, if this is the real thing then I'm real disappointed. I mean, how many times does one have to ask for virtual graffitti before it's given? The Palm community is practically screaming out for virtual graffitti, I hope this thing's a fake.
RE: Stupid Design.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:53:39 PM #
If you want virtual Graffiti, buy a freakin' NR70. It's called "Choice." Reward Sony for doing things right and Palm will take the hint.

RE: Stupid Design.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:52:42 PM #
The NR70 isn't even a PDA. It's a quarter of a laptop, or something else silly. Talk about poor designs. I'm not rewarding anyone for that mess. If you want to "reward" somebody, HandEra did it over a year ago.

I've used a Zaurus and the slide open keyboard looks and works fine.

I think its REAL!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 1:37:41 PM #
I didn¡¦t know if it had been mentioned here but I thought I¡¦d tell everyone that the image has been pulled from pocketpcthoughts.com. The following explanation was given:

UPDATE: I received a phone call this afternoon from Matthew Archibald, Palm's Director of Global Information Security. We had a nice enough chat, but he asked me to pull the images and turn over the source image with the unedited serial number. They could have had their lawyers call me, so I'm returning the favor by cooperating and pulling the images. I'm not going to turn over the original image with the serial number unless the person who sent it to me tells me I can. Hopefully this won't get TOO ugly, but we'll see...I'll keep you all up to date on how this unfolds.

I think this adds quite a bit of validity to the picture. Anyway, doesn¡¦t matter much to me, I think the things is ugly

RE: I think its REAL!
terrysalmi @ 7/12/2002 1:59:57 PM #
And how do you prove that this chat really took place?

That's a Palm Phone / Treo Killer you'r looking at

devilstower @ 7/12/2002 2:13:57 PM #
The small speaker at the top acts as phone speaker (which can either be held against your ear or used as a speakerphone). Microphone is concealed in the direction pad (as the speaker is concealed in the direction pad of some PocketPCs). The LED is the activation LED for the phone. Dialing is on screen, ala Samsung. Star icon brings up the new browser Palm just purchased.

Use closed for standard phone features, slide open to use Grafitti with Palm apps or in websites.

RE: That's a Palm Phone / Treo Killer you'r looking at
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:35:37 PM #
While I doubt this (given Palm's spotty track record lately) the concept itself, hardware-wise, does make pretty good sense. I had a great qualcomm (this was long before Kyocera purchased them) phone that was, i THINK, manufactured by Sony. This was back in late 97/early 98. It was a standard looking cell phone, but to answer calls you slid the earpiece up. Then you could just snap the earpiece down, ending the call and making the phone a little shorter to carry in your pocket or whatever. Having to put the earpiece up to make a call also served as a very quick yet elegant way of locking the keypad. I also think I recall this phone having a jog wheel on the left side of the unit (since Sony sold their own branded version of this phone as well). One day the phone broke--not the earpiece but something keypad-related and they could not fix it and Bell Atlantic gave me a Microtac Motorola as a replacement and I have missed that Qualcomm phone ever since.

The point I am trying to make is that when you think about it more and more, the sliding cover idea is a pretty good one. I've never seen it again in a portable electronics device since my old phone but I think that Palm MAY be on the right track here. Now we just needd to hope they survive to see the 2nd generation of this formfactor. Virtual graffitti, a more pronounced D-pad design on the left side of the unit and some sort of wireless capability will make for a nice unit in a year's time (assuming they don't sink themselves sooner).

I'd also agree with previous posters that sliding the unit open "turns it on", or you can just hit one of the hardware buttons. Then maybe holding up on the d-pad or something turns it off. Or there's a small power butto on the top of the unit next to the SD slot.

Also, wouldn't the sliding bit interfere with UC peripherals, at least sled-shaped ones (GPS, model etc) What good is maintaing the UC for two years if I cannot use my hideouly overprived $100 m500 series modem on it?

RE: That's a Palm Phone / Treo Killer you'r looking at
robrecht @ 7/12/2002 2:36:43 PM #
Antenna is internal and wishful thinking makes it so?

Thanks, Robrecht
RE: That's a Palm Phone / Treo Killer you'r looking at
devilstower @ 7/12/2002 3:17:03 PM #
Even the name Oslo is intended to project a "Nokia-ish" tone to the product. Yes, I know that Nokia is actually a Finnish company, not Norwegian, and so does Palm, but Oslo rings the right bells in people's heads -- unlike Espoo, Salo, or Oulu.

The antenna is not internal, but it is retractable.

RE: That's a Palm Phone / Treo Killer you'r looking at
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 6:58:51 PM #
That cool little Palm logo at the very top reminds me of the plastic "nub" logo on the front of my new m500 hard case. It's a nice, surprisingly cute touch.

ANything's better than the Palm and m505 printing that rubbed off of my unit within weeks of buying it.


RE: That's a Palm Phone / Treo Killer you'r looking at
palm_pilot_guy @ 7/12/2002 8:27:49 PM #
at the risk of sounding like i'm repeating everybody...

the star icon would mean favourites. it's becoming a world standard like home button or some other thing that's too obvious to be mentioned here.

remember how the i705 was called skywalker? maybe palm is starting to codename their wireless products.

but then again, does anybody remember the prism II?

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2255

but then again, remember how the pictures of the m505 came out almost half a year before it came out? and those were stock photos of the m505.

it appears that a part of the 'olso' nameplate is blurred. it might be the real name but it wouldn't look right there.

|||||
p'p'g
\_-_/
--V--
Red, White and Blue. Warning: These colors never run!

Someone bring me Photoshop

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 2:53:43 PM #
I need to build a new Palm and screw with people.... :-)

The options:

1) Bad Photoshop job
- Look at the sidewall where the cut in is (over pixelation appears where regular sidewall is smooth)
- Dpad area is a different res than the rest of the image.. look at the grainy edges of the circle
- Palm badge is fake and was pulled from another source you can tell because of how someone tried to blend the edges of the unit and the badge together... see the smudges
- Icons in graffiti area were edited in... look at the smudges edges using our handy smudge tool...
- The list goes on...

2) We all want it so bad it must be real

3) Palm really has nothing new, will buy Handspring, and I will never get my perfect color/phone/pda combo with full video support and a 30GB HD :-)

AAAAHHH...

Hey this is fun, anyone else have any pictures of what they want the new Palm to look like. I am going to start on mine right now.

RE: Someone bring me Photoshop
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:09:48 PM #
The "smudges" you are talking about is compression artifacts. if you survey entire picture, as long as there is high black/light color contrast, it has 'smudges' on the lighter color.

on the contrary, if you see the white fonts of 'Pocket PC thoughts' it doesn't experiance the same 'smudge'. It's because the fonts is added after the picture compression process.

RE: Someone bring me Photoshop
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:14:34 PM #
Actually, you are wrong about this... but hey no big deal. A survey of the entire picture will show you multiple areas where artifacts are not found and other areas where they are more prevalent.

If you are experienced with Photoshop which is sounds like you are, you know you can easily remove these artifacts which someone tried to do but did not get everything...

Come one, don't give in to the pressure.... you know this is a fake picture. Anyone with any design background could give you a better fake than this...

RE: Someone bring me Photoshop
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:23:30 PM #
Oh yeah, I forgot my name is Eric B. and this picture is definitely FAKE!!!

Ha ha ha ha ha.

RE: Someone bring me Photoshop
ahecht @ 7/12/2002 7:28:06 PM #
I have quite a bit of experience in JPEG compression, and those just look like standard compression artifacts.

RE: Someone bring me Photoshop
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 10:44:54 PM #
I really think if someone was good at photoshop enough to fake the reflection in the logo, he could convincingly remove the compression artifacts.
RE: Someone bring me Photoshop
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 11:46:11 PM #
Photoshop isn't the only way to make a hoax. An industrial design student with access to a decent model shop could crank this out in a week or two.

This picture is a HOAX

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:06:57 PM #
If Palm told pockectPCthoughts.com to pull down this picture, why hasn't Palm told PalmInfcenter.com to pull down this picture?
RE: This picture is definately not a HOAX
abosco @ 7/12/2002 3:10:01 PM #
Listen, troll, PPC thoughts had this picture up for about 7 hours before it was taken down and discovered by Palm. It's been about 5 hours that Ed's had it up so save the picture to your hard drive! BTW...to anybody who says this picture is a hoax, read my post in the forums. I can explain exactly why this isn't photoshopped. Check out the explaination in my post [url="http://palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5975"]here[/url]. That should put an end to all the people who think it's a hoax.

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]

RE: This picture is a HOAX
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:21:29 PM #
There's no point in arguing if it's real or not. Just take it for what it's worth. I believe it's real, but even then I don't think the final released product will look anything like that.

Just take this as a "concept" prototype. Like your car concepts, it will have all the essence, but won't be exactly the same once it's release.

So thing only thing we can concluding is that somebody is working on the idea of a hidden graffiti area.

RE: This picture is a HOAX
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 6:01:38 PM #
PDABuzz is reporting that they received an "artist's concept" drawing several months ago that depicted a Palm with a sliding design. Just coincidence? Check this link for a pic.

http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40687

RE: This picture is a HOAX
ahecht @ 7/12/2002 7:29:24 PM #
Remember all the people who insisted that the m130 was a hoax and pointed out all the "mistakes" in the pictures of it? If I just took a picture of my Palm Vx, I'm sure people would be able to find "proof" that it was a hoax too.

RE: This picture is a HOAX
jlapp @ 7/12/2002 8:34:36 PM #
Same with m505 pics.

RE: This picture is a HOAX
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 12:00:12 PM #
Hey Bosco, why is the Oslo picture still up on PIC? You can't tell me that Palm doesn't know about it by now. With each passing day your argument that the pic is not a hoax becomes less persuasive.

Don't mistake being cynical with being a troll. Besides, you shouldn't attack people just because they are not as gullible as you are. I too want to see Palm innovate, but it has been such a long since they have done anything innovative with their hardware. I hope the Oslo is real, but I don't think it is. Only time will tell.

Its the wireless device

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:01:24 PM #
I am guessing this is the long awaited wireless GPRS phone device. The bottom section can probably be removed and replaced with a keyboard. the upper left hand corner is the LED telling you if you are connected to the network. The screen is definately high-res. This unit will require a headset to use the voice features becuase Palm believes that users want to use the Palm while they are on the phone.
RE: Its the wireless device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 3:30:50 PM #
I bet it looks like the blackberry cell phone when the bottom is replaced with a thumbpad and pushed up over the graffiti area.
YES PLEASE!
jonr @ 7/15/2002 8:46:59 AM #
I've been waiting for decent Palm/GPRS gadget for a while. I don't like the Treo's, everything that flips open is just silly, I want solid brick (or tile) that I can keep on me all the time.

Picture is absolute real!!

Palmqlite @ 7/12/2002 4:04:18 PM #
There are some metadata items are embedded in an image file. Metadata, refers to digital camera storage of image information using EXIF compressed files.

Look:

Image description EPSON DSC picture
Artist
Copyright
Make SEIKO EPSON CORP.
Model PhotoPC 3100Z
Orientation upper left
X resolution 480
Y resolution 480
Software v322-75
Datetime 2002:06:19 20:53:55
YCbCr positioning co-sited
Exposure time 1/15 s
F-number 2.1
Exposure program Normal program
ISO speed ratings 100
Date/time original 2002:06:19 20:53:55
Date/time digitized 2002:06:19 20:53:55
Component config YCbCr
Exposure bias value 0
Max. aperture value 2
Metering mode Spot
Light source Unknown
Flash No
Focal length 10.4 mm
User comment Colorspace sRGB
Pixel X dimension 2048
Pixel Y dimension 1536


Regards,
Palmqlite

http://www.palmq.net


Regards,
PalmQLiTe

===========
www.palmq.net

RE: Picture is absolute real!!
TechnoPops @ 7/12/2002 5:46:31 PM #
Good point. If this is a hoax, I don't think someone would go as far as embedding metadata into the pic to make it look legit. But if they did, hey, hats off to them. :P

RE: Picture is absolute real!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 8:47:01 AM #
It does not prove anything. One should wonder why the metadata info is still there after they 'edited' the pic by adding the PocketPCthoughts.com. Most image editor will lose the metadata when you edit a digicam picture.

RE: Picture is absolute real!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 9:15:54 PM #
Well gee. Only thing, is that most people use
Adobe Photoshop for photoediting, and Photoshop
keeps the Metadata information.

Maybe that's why??

Hey, it's the capitol of Norway!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 4:39:15 PM #
Hey, nice to know that Palm knows about Norway! Maybe the Palm was developed there! :)
RE: Hey, it's the capitol of Norway!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 6:01:42 PM #
Sure, why not? They invented the wheel, the combustible engine, the airplane and the pickled herring. I wouldn't it past those pale-skinned guyses.
RE: Hey, it's the capitol of Norway!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 6:43:19 PM #
Hell, better Norway than Hungary!! ;-p

Seriously, like a previous poster said, Palm might be going after the Blaupunkt method of product naming. I hope this does not occur, because Palm has already befuddled enough customers as it is (I have a buddy who worked at Best Buy and he said people were constantly buying Sync cables and other wrong accessories for m125s/130s that only worked on m10x series units.)


Get your picture now

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 5:55:41 PM #
There is a post on PDABuzz about Palm Inc. asking the picture be taken off the forum. Soooo...get your picture while you still can!!!
RE: Get your picture now
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 8:00:06 AM #
Three days later, more and more pictures to be found all over the internet. So no need to rush.

Appreciate the visual wit

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 6:50:09 PM #
While we're all arguing about the validity and implications of this photograph, let's take a moment to appreciate the "visual wit". Just as the existence of a collapsible, telescoping keyboard section has been a key point of controversy, notice that the software depicted on the device's screen says "SLIDE SHOW". -- AJL

Interesting Little Device

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 7:06:16 PM #
My guess is that this is the low-end Palm OS 5 device - hopefully no more than $199.

No way this is the high end device - with a plastic case!?!?!

If it is, then Palm's royally screwed.

I hope that there is a Palm OS 5 device that follows the styling of the M500 series...I can hope for a virtual graffiti area, but I doubt Palm is that slick. Maybe by 2003...

RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 8:22:07 PM #
Palm is really screwed?

Really?

You mean they shouldn't make any mid-range or low-end devices.....the ones that dominate the market, and have terrific profit margin???

You're right.....they should only concentrate on high-end units made of aluminum that have built in bluetooth and lightsaber capabilities......you know......the kind that most of the enthusiasts on this board purchase.

People only want a beefed-up organizer/communicator......not a damn aluminum miniature laptop, you dolt!

Joe Six Pack is who determines which company wins.....not you, me, or anyone else on here. They want an m130, a #4 value meal at McDonald's, and a 6 pack of Miller High Life.

Not a $500 miniature computer and a pint of Citron.

Otherwise, PocketPC would have a little something called DOUBLE DIGIT MARKET SHARE.

RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 8:49:43 PM #
mmmmm. Miller High Life....
RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 9:08:45 PM #
>Palm is really screwed?
>Really?

Yes they are - I think based on what little we've seen, oslo would make a great low-mid range device. Don't forget it needs to compete with other devices that are currently out (and forthcoming Palm OS 5 devices from other vendors).

As a result, Palm needs to be competitive - both in capabilities and in pricing. $399 for this puppy aint gonna cut it. If it has compelling features (multimedia, etc.) it needs to be priced to move - $299 at the absolute highest.

>You mean they shouldn't make any mid-range or low-
>end devices.....the ones that dominate the market,
>and have terrific profit margin???

No; they should make low and midrange devices, but they shouldn't forget the high-end. Today's high-end devices become tomorrow's low-end units.

Palm needs to be lean and hungry - they can't count on their name to sell these devices. They need to compete on the basis of price and functionality.

Because if they don't - there are several viable competitors to go after Palm's marketshare (Sony).

>You're right.....they should only concentrate on
>high-end units made of aluminum that have built in
>bluetooth and lightsaber capabilities......you
>know......the kind that most of the enthusiasts on
>this board purchase.

Obviously Palm is having technical challenges and can't produce the type of device so many people on this board seem to want. However, I'm one that wants an aluminum case - I admire Palm's ability to create durable and reliable products. If this plastic cased palm is the new high-end device, I'll be disappointed.

I'd like to believe that there will be a higher end device...


>People only want a beefed-up
>organizer/communicator......not a damn aluminum
>miniature laptop, you dolt!

Look dude - save the namecalling for your mother. A Palm OS 5 version M515 w/ bluetooth is far from a miniature laptop - that's the sony PDA with the camera and the poor battery life :)

>Joe Six Pack is who determines which company
>wins.....not you, me, or anyone else on here. They
>want an m130, a #4 value meal at McDonald's, and a 6
>pack of Miller High Life.

Exactly - that's why I hope that this new palm device is the low end device!!!!! New capabilities in a reasonably priced package will create demand and SALES!

If this new device is a $450 PDA, then Palm is screwed.

>Not a $500 miniature computer and a pint of Citron.

No, but the $500 model will show people that there's some sensible leadership behind palm - and that the company has a plan for the future...

>Otherwise, PocketPC would have a little something
>called DOUBLE DIGIT MARKET SHARE.

PPC doesn't have marketshare (thank god) but it does have something palm lacks - mindshare. PPC has several capabilities which Palm can't touch. I'm a Palm fan (I've owned five different devices), but Palm needs to create a device that will impress people with new capabilities AT A LOWER PRICEPOINT!!!

I would love to see this be a $199 PDA with better functionality than a $499 - $699 PPC device.

If it's the highend ($499) PDA, I will be disappointed.

RE: Interesting Little Device
Foo Fighter @ 7/13/2002 9:47:09 AM #
>"...Otherwise, PocketPC would have a little something called DOUBLE DIGIT MARKET SHARE."

Uh...PocketPC does have double digit market share. About 20%. In Europe PPC has nearly 40% share.

RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 2:17:24 PM #
Europe......land of the cell phone.

What are their total PDA sales there, 6???

As far as PocketPC marketshare.....it soon will be 0%.

Give it 2 years.....count on it.

The more people are buying mobile devices, the smaller they'll want them. We're talking cell phones that *just happen* to double as PDAs, not the other way around.

Pocket PC can't do that.

Maybe their "Stinger" solution, or whatever it's called, but it's still got nowhere near the functionality of PPC.

Microsoft isn't "Screwed".
PocketPC, however, is.

Just give it time, my friend.

And get ready to buy a tablet, while you're at it.

RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 1:05:48 PM #
Honestly - the first three posts in this thread are completely absurd. All this talk about how this is the low-end/mid-range palm or how it should be. Just because Palm OS 5 is now at hand, do you idiots think the cost of hi-res 320x320 screen has some how plumeted?? the Sony t615c is currently going for $299 - and it's discontinued!!! And it runs OS 4.1 and has an old, run of the mill Motorola 33mhz processor. And yet you kids with yr little fantasies go on about how "obviously this is Palms low end unit"....yada yada yada. Or - "Palm better not price this over $199 or else the whole platform is dead!!". Please. If this is an OS 5 unit, with hi-res, and an ARM processor, then guess what? it's going to cost AT LEAST $299. And you know what? That is completely in line with the PDA market - or maybe i just haven't seen those brand new $199 PPC 2002 devices.....
RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 2:18:35 PM #
Finally, someone with a little sense. I don't know where these people thought a unit could possibly be $199 with a better screen, better processor, more memory, more features, and a better form factor (imo) than an m130 which is currently priced at $280. This thing will be $299, minimum
RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 6:58:55 PM #
>Just because Palm OS 5 is now at hand, do you idiots
>think the cost of hi-res 320x320 screen has some how
>plumeted??

Fist, learn how to spell "plummeted" - secondly, ever hear about "economies of scale?" The more devices Palm can churn out using a standard screen resolution will give them leverage to get a cheaper price on the screens.

Also Palm has spoken about how ARM-based Palms will be cheaper to produce.

Taking those two facts togteher, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a $199 Palm.

>the Sony t615c is currently going for $299 - and
>it's discontinued!!! And it runs OS 4.1 and has an
>old, run of the mill Motorola 33mhz processor. And
>yet you kids with yr little fantasies go on about
>how "obviously this is Palms low end unit"....yada
>yada yada. Or - "Palm better not price this over
>$199 or else the whole platform is dead!!". Please.

Oh come on - I think we all want to see the Palm OS platform proliferate. Palm just churning out a $400 or $500 PDA won't help the cause. An inexpensive Palm OS 5 PDA is necessary for the Palm community to thrive.

>If this is an OS 5 unit, with hi-res, and an ARM
>processor, then guess what? it's going to cost AT
>LEAST $299. And you know what? That is completely in
>line with the PDA market - or maybe i just haven't
>seen those brand new $199 PPC 2002 devices.....

LOL! PPC 2002 devices require more hardware to run - that's why they cost so much.

This device should cost at MOST $299 - since it will require less hardware (and memory) to run Palm OS 5.

What better way for Palm to stick it to PPC than to undercut them (pricewise) and come out with better functionality.

If this is a $449 PDA, it won't sell in droves. NOW what Palm needs is a home run.

We'll see what they end up doing.

RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 7:37:06 PM #
still happily getting rip off at $399 I see. You do realize at that price you already can get a Toshiba e310 with big screen, full audio, arm, and actually working SD.

contrast to that PDA joke called m5xx.

But hey if Kiddie OS is all you need, no virtual memory, no multi tasking, no hardware independendt GUI, no FAT 32 support. well......good for you.

RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 9:33:28 AM #
"....But hey if Kiddie OS is all you need, no virtual memory, no multi tasking, no hardware independendt GUI, no FAT 32 support. well......good for you...."


Ahem. Actually, ALMOST NOBODY wants or cares about those features. If they did, then Palm OS wouldn't be absolutely destroying PPC in sales, and units like the m105 wouldn't be popular.

Clue up, punk.

RE: Interesting Little Device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 12:38:23 PM #
let's see how the latest market share is going to add up after E310.

heh heh.....

Palm inc. motto: continuously loosing market share since inception.

Constantly *loosing* market share?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 4:23:29 PM #
To loose = to unleash--check the dictionary!

Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 7:55:48 PM #
According to very reliable source at Motorola which, right next to where I live. Palm and Motorola putting finishing touches on this unit, to have built in Bluetooth and 802.11b access. Also this unit comes with an awsome metal cover to cover the screen after collapsing on grafitti area. Anyways, I hope this model will be available before Christmas, so I can get my self a $500 gift.

I hope this enlightens all of you.

Cheers!!!

RE: Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 8:18:39 PM #
O ok ....
but you do know that this Palm device probably use chip from TI ...
RE: Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!
Kesh @ 7/12/2002 10:13:56 PM #
That would be pretty sweet, really. But the unit seems a bit small to fit them into. The only other PDA with built in 802.11b is the Toshiba e740, and it's much bigger than this appears to be. Not to mention having atrocious battery life...

Still, I'd be quite happy if this unit does have them. Especially if the screen does well in sunlight, meaning I could take my Palm out back to read webnews for an hour or so, instead of my laptop.

RE: Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!
Palm_Otaku @ 7/14/2002 3:33:29 PM #
A couple of comments:

Palm Inc. has stated that they'll be releasing A device using the TI OMAP processor (presumably for their "smartphone" device) but they didn't say that ALL of their devices would use it. IOW, the "Oslo" could be using the Motorola MX1 processor.

I strongly doubt that Palm Inc. would go for integrated 802.11b as the power requirements are unacceptably high. Look at Toshiba's e740... OTOH, I am REALLY hoping that integrated Bluetooth will become a standard feature on all mid- to high-range devices this year.

RE: Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 8:43:59 AM #
I had a chance to mess with it this weekend at Motorola. You are right, it does have a Motorola chip. Also has built-in GSM cell phone, 802.11b, Bluetooth. This is awsome, I absoluteley loved it. It is as big as a Toshiba e310, but way better craftsmanship (of course it's a Palm). Comes with user replacable batteries. Just like a Cell Phone. Also back of the unit soft like new Ericsson T68. I want one, can't wait!!!

Gizmo Rat!

Power button on top?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 8:03:28 PM #
While people have commented that they haven't seen the power button, I'm surprised no one's raised the idea that it might be on the top of the device. If the Treo 90 can fit the power button, IR port and SD slot up there, then there's no reason this one can't.
RE: Power button on top?
Altema @ 7/14/2002 7:34:59 PM #
That may be likely, but I'm leaning more towards the Palm logo being the power button. It would only be offset slightly from the position of the M5xx series, and the actual switch would be able to lay flat on the circuit board the way it already does on the M5xx. The top mounted button would require the switch being perpendicular to the circuit board(s), or a wedge shaped lever or some other mechanism would be needed to activate the switch inside the unit. The vibrate motor of the M5xx has spring contacts for it's connection, but the power switch would get more abuse, and Palm may want to avoid any extra points of failure.

God this thing is ugly

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 8:27:34 PM #
The general shape of the unit is pretty ugly, but worst of all are the redesinged icons. Gah!
RE: God this thing is ugly
abosco @ 7/12/2002 11:32:05 PM #
I'm sure you are quite the pretty person, aren't you! Until you decide to register, don't trash this great pda. At least give us a name so we can trash you.

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]

RE: God this thing is ugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 9:25:36 AM #
I AGREE!!!!!

Why do some designers design ugly -- this will make me run to get Sony's first OS5 device.

RE: God this thing is ugly
IceStar @ 7/13/2002 11:40:32 AM #
Why, oh why did they make this so ugly and soooo thick!

Those with small hands wouldn't be able to hold this PDA safely.

Guess Palm wants to make it's profit in broken screens.

Well, onto Sony's newest device with OS5.

RE: God this thing is ugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 10:19:00 AM #
i think it's the best design for palm since the VX... and that taste are in nature, so are really a personal thing. Don't assume it is ugly, only because your taste makes you think it is ugly. In my opinion you have no taste.

Nokia 8910 and Palm Oslo

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/12/2002 9:28:20 PM #
It could be made of Titanium!
Just like the Nokia 8910?!
Hey wait a minute, they both slide!
They look similar, you reckon the Oslo has Bluetooth built in?

See below -

http://www.expansys.com/img/big_8910IMPORT.jpg

Bet

abosco @ 7/12/2002 11:57:21 PM #
I am willing to bet ANYBODY ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY that this thing is not a hoax. I am willing to put real money that this will be the first OS 5 device to come to market. It will not be the exact same device but it will still have a slide-over graffiti area that makes the unit smaller and a d-pad, as well as the general shape and design. Any takers???

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]

RE: Bet
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 12:22:28 AM #
Get a life.
RE: Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 3:39:11 PM #
Bosco you might be right. But do us all a favor and get rid of that juvenile long signature!!

LOOKS LIKE A M515 AND A SHARP ZAURUS HAD A BASTARD CHILD

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 12:33:53 AM #
Whadaya think?
RE: LOOKS LIKE A M515 AND A SHARP ZAURUS HAD A BASTARD CHILD
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 12:53:32 AM #
looks more like Nokia 8855 and Zaurus and the palm OS had a three way ....
RE: LOOKS LIKE A M515 AND A SHARP ZAURUS HAD A BASTARD CHILD
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 7:58:38 AM #
a palm, an 8910 (8855 colored) and a zaurus. whoa

This Pic originate from Thai Palm Users Group

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 12:50:56 AM #
Since July 12 , TPUG.org posted this picture. Please Keep it in mind Thai time is faster than US time.
RE: This Pic originate from Thai Palm Users Group
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 11:02:10 AM #
"...Thai time is faster than US time."

Yep, that's true. And right now it is already the year 4762 in Thailand because their time has been moving faster, at least since we began calculating time. (At this rate the US will never catch up.) In fact, the Oslo is really a very ancient unit that the Thai archeologists dug up on a recent government sponsored dig. But notice how well the unit held up! Even after that many millenia, the thing still worked when they put batteries into it. So my suggestion is that everyone buy one of these babies when they come out. You can't go wrong with a unit that will still work and look that good after 2000 years.

RE: This Pic originate from Thai Palm Users Group
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 12:02:03 PM #
actually Palm will keep releasing the same unit between now and the year 4762, just different packaging and marketing sound bit.
RE: This Pic originate from Thai Palm Users Group
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 10:14:19 PM #
Correction!!! Thai year is now 2545 not 4762. Thanks
RE: This Pic originate from Thai Palm Users Group
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 9:11:51 AM #
Hi all. I just got back from "the restaurant at the end of the universe," and I saw another patron with this exact unit! He told me that he got it from some Thai guy who was trying to unload it really quickly for fear of the Palm Police arresting him for leaking a picture of it early. So the actual age of this unit is impossible to determine, but I can tell you that it has really been around! And it's still working fine.
-Ford Prefect

New Palm model coming to Canada

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/13/2002 2:07:54 AM #
I read in a local canadian computer paper about the new Palm i700 device. It was not coming to Canada b/c local cellular companies were waiting for a new wireless device from Palm. It was reported to be here before the year was over. So this maybe a possibility of the device.

Honestly, comparing this to the beautiful m515, this is ugly.

sliding functionality

palm_pilot_guy @ 7/13/2002 9:06:20 AM #
i didn't read any other posts so again, i might be repeating something but the sliding might be the thing to switch between phone and palm mode.

when the sliding thing is up, you can call people and stuff and when it's down, you can use it as a palm.

|||||
p'p'g
\_-_/
--V--
Red, White and Blue. Warning: These colors never run!

RE: sliding functionality
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 10:28:52 AM #
I sure hope it is the Palm smartphone because if it is the m515 replacement it looks like the new design will be thicker, hardly shorter, unuseable when closed, and uncomfortable to hold when open.
RE: sliding functionality
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 6:14:42 AM #
This thing could be a "Data-centric" smartphone with voice functionality being achieved through the use of a headset. If you add embeded bluetooth, you have here a great product.

Its the software stupid

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 12:57:38 PM #
The sliding piece sucks. What sucks even more is that there will be no OS5 software when this thing comes out! Thats right even the Palm built in apps will run in emulation mode and will not be changed in any way. I bet Palm has laid so many people off that this is the best they can do with hardware while doing very little code development. Time to start looking at a Pocket PC.
Children and PPCs
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 1:13:20 PM #
>Time to start looking at a Pocket PC.

Come on, troll, you already own a Pocket PC. Go back to a ppc forum and play with the rest of your M$ playmates.

KidZ and stupid software and PPC
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 3:42:11 PM #
What really gets me is how these kiddies can afford their PPCs -- are they spoiled; thieves; or school-yard crack dealers...?
RE: Its the software stupid
Foo Fighter @ 7/14/2002 4:56:36 PM #
>"Time to start looking at a Pocket PC."

Good idea. Do you know of a PocketPC as small as this device that can retract to form a smaller package?

Didn't think so.

RE: Its the software stupid
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 7:42:48 PM #
"Do you know of a PocketPC as small as this device that can retract to form a smaller package? "

LoL I don't even know a palm Device that could do this.

RE: Its the software stupid
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 7:43:17 PM #
no, cause nobody is stupid enough to actually still buying 160*160 screen PDA. (yeah ok 320*320 on same apps)

better practice that "squinting and scrolling" for some longer time....

RE: Its the software stupid
Foo Fighter @ 7/14/2002 8:43:13 PM #
>"LoL I don't even know a palm Device that could do this."

Are you mentally retarted? What do you think the "Oslo" is?


RE: Its the software stupid
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 10:53:41 PM #
It's actually about the size of m515 upon retraction.
RE: Its the software stupid
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 5:05:23 AM #
"Are you mentally retarted? What do you think the "Oslo" is?"

That's not mentally retard, that's just careful thinking. On the contrary you may be mentally retarded, you could just come to the conclusion that palm device could retract just by looking at the photo. hay maybe I am retractable too, have you seen my picture ?? between my head and my body my neck is obviously thinner, so maybe just maybe my head could some how retract into my body.

btw: if you want to throw insults like "retart" you might want to check your spellings, because it's kinda retard to say somebody is retard and can't even spell it right.

RE: Its the software stupid
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 12:10:46 PM #
> there will be no OS5 software when this thing comes out!

There are already various applications out that support OS 5. Development tools have been available for many months now.

I like it and am ready to upgrade from m515

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 2:48:52 PM #
My guess is that this puppy will be in stores around early September 2002.

I think this looks great!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 8:55:08 PM #
I look forward to finding out what the sliding bottom is all about but this pda looks very promising. I can't wait!!!!

Palm 8910

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/14/2002 10:30:52 PM #
At first looks I must admit this is the nicest design to have come from Palm from a long time. I hope besides the design they have also improved on the hardware specs itself. I own a Clie HiRes and I can't see myself going back to a LoRes screen - ever - no matter how nice the outer design is.

I own a Nokia 8910 and if Oslo has a titanium shell with the slide out, what can I say - it feels really good in the hands. Strictly on a design level if they manage to pull that off it leapfrogs Sony's design position.

A PDA has become a must have "accessory" for most executives and while the low-end market is important there is a market for higher-end devices that have a nice finish. It's like Nokia designing handphones for a wide range of target segments. In fact Nokia has released a "Rolex" brand of handphones called Vertu.

Right now, except for the Clie T-series most of the PDA designs are for tech-Joes or students or entry-level market. Why the Palm V-series did well was the exquisitness of it. They failed with the m-Series for sloppy specs and frankly, that flared arc...

Well, I hope Palm has finally come out of its funk!

On purpose?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 12:40:58 AM #
Ok here are a few things to consider:
1) Palm has had leaks of the past products for the last three years.
2) The ARM machine release is a while away.
3) Palm has been good at tracking the sites that have the "leaks"
4) Palm it looking for some market survey and maybe soem cheap undergroud/buzz press.
5) Palm intentionally lets someone leak this to create this firestorm.
6) Anticipation of the Palm ARM devices increases.
7) Palm gets some good survey data if they can weigh Internet newsgroup posting properly.
8) The "right" Palm is made.
9) New Palm management releases this device and the iPaq market share is compromised.

RE: On purpose?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 2:14:16 AM #
by your theory, considering the initial comment, the next palm hardware would be release in November at the earliest. This scenario is far too late and will cause major lost of market share.

you forget that most company did their market research before or during product development, not when prototype is in such advance stage.

...but than again, who knows....
Palm Inc. has been known to make bonehead market strategy.

RE: On purpose?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 7:17:42 PM #
Palm Management is not that smart.
Palm Security is not either,
M.A. couldn't catch a cold !!!

OSLO screen resolution

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 1:32:48 PM #
Judging from the font in the "Slide Show" button, I'd say the screen is most likely 320x320. Of course, if the screen image is simulated then all bets are off.

Picture Leaked of New Palm

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 6:20:36 PM #

This is the real thing, but it is called

"Fargo" not Oslo.

Will be shipping in October

16mb
320x320
microphone
arm processor
slider

RE: Picture Leaked of New Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 9:28:30 PM #
16MB?????????? Better be 32/64MB with a decent VFS.
RE: Picture Leaked of New Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 12:14:47 PM #
sorry, os 5 does not support 64mb ram
RE: Picture Leaked of New Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 12:21:54 PM #
please tell me you're kidding
RE: Picture Leaked of New Palm
zigzago @ 7/17/2002 2:27:49 PM #
Oh, yah? Dat Fargo's a good name dere.

RE: Picture Leaked of New Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 9/11/2002 12:43:53 PM #
where is the PICTURE?????

OMAP Platform - OMAP1510 Processor

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 5:37:00 PM #
rumour. this is the cpu
rumour. speed = 175mhz

http://makeashorterlink.com/?X11B22741


RE: OMAP Platform - OMAP1510 Processor
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/16/2002 9:08:40 PM #
Have to agree.

This is what I've been saying;
175mhz, 32mb, 320x480 (as opposed to this prototype pic), built in bluetooth or wifi or none, mp3, mic, speaker (voice playback).
As for the screen (320x480) I dont know if I'm letting desire/hope come into it? This is what we want, they know we want it, spreadsheets and e-books demand it, but can they provide the battery life for QVGA in a Palm V form factor (because you know they will still release an OS5 Palm V form device!)

Palm Tungsten??? Palm Zire??? Palm Veld???

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/17/2002 10:55:20 AM #
Palm registered the following trademarks recently:

Palm Tungsten
Palm Veld
Palm Zire

My guess is that Palm will move away from number designations for their devices. I doubt they will use the trademark "Oslo" because that mark is already in use, unless Palm purchases it from the owner (FYI: the Oslo design on the pictured Palm is very similar to a mark already registered with the US Patent and Trademark Office, so the device might indeed be called the Oslo in the end if Palm can purchase that mark).

Of the above list, Palm Tungsten is the best of the lot, but I'm not overly sold on any of the names. Zire???? Veld???? I just don't get it. Maybe Karl Yankowski picked these names before he left ;-) Maybe Palm is running cover for the real names of the devices. (One can only hope!).

JBH

Sony Ericsson P800

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/19/2002 5:49:04 PM #
No virtual input very bad. Look at the Sony Ericsson P800 as the best upgrade for Plam. Is powered by Symbian whi invented the PDA before Apple. It uses an 150 MHz ARM920T.

http://www.sonyericsson.com/cebit/p800.htm

Includes phone, PDA, camera, Java & MMS

The Keyboard

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/20/2002 10:52:06 PM #
You are missing the secret here, under the slider is the thumb board style keyboard ! Then it's graffiti or keyboard. Only makes sense.
RE: The Keyboard
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/23/2002 11:11:37 AM #
Sorry, but the whole bottom of the device slides down, like the Nokia phone in the Matrix movie, so there is no keyboard hidden under there. But they can always make one to snap over the graffiti area.

It would be nice to have a keyboard, but a virtual graffiti area replaced with an on-screen keyboard would be second best.

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