Comments on: Rumor: Picture Leaked of New Palm Handheld

Hmmmm I have to admit, this is a rather intriguing design. I sorta like the idea of the "sliding" graffitti area but I'd REALLY prefer a virtual one. I hope to god that there is some sort of scroll/jog wheel on the side of this unit.

Likes:
-Possibly being the "shortest" Palm OS unit around. Easy pocketability.
-Buttons look fairly high-quality.
-D-pad FINALLY!
-Casing looks fairly durable/stylish

Dislikes:
-Screen looks too pixelated
-Is that a speaker or a mic on the top of the unit? Whatever it is it's poorly placed.
-D-pad does not seem "defined" enough to ensure accurate game/cursor control. Think of the original Sega Master System (versus the PSX or NES' cross-style D-pads) If Palm are serious about the games market, then they need to position the D-pad to the far LEFT side of the unit and arrange all of the hard buttons in a row. Of course this might somehow upset the delicate Zen balance.
-Graffitti area appears to not be backlit...again

Notice the button, it's smooth, I think it's just the pictures that are screwy, I think the screen is 320x320

This is definately a high res screen - but like poster above, I wish it was virtual graffiti instead. Small is good though...

I can only guess having the DPad in the center is so both righties and lefties are happy (or should I say "not as upset").

Not too sure I like the hidden graffiti concept, I'll have to think about how I use it and if the extra step is worth it.

Interested to see the specs (dimensions, weight, processor speed, memory, mp3?, voice recording, etc...)

gummycat

Well, I still see a lot of middle-aged types carrying around their IIIc Palms and various Visors. They like the big screens and easy-to-handle buttons. I think that it would be in Palm's best interest to release, every now and again, a thoroughly modern unit in a III-style formfactor. It could have a knockout screen, great battery life and (down the road) wireless/bluetooth. The trend ever since the release of the m100, what, 2 years ago, has been to smaller formfactors, smaller screens (and buttons), and higher resolutions.

I don't know about you guys but my eyesight is getting worse, not better. A regged unit about the size of the IIIc but with a larger screen (and a virtual/or this new sliding graffitti contraption) would probably do quite well in the education market as well as for heavy-duty userss out in the field.

Imagine how much better the IIIc would have sold had it come pre-loaded with Zap! and the Palm GamePad bundled at no cost in the box...

At the request of Palm, the images were just removed about two minutes ago. Good thing I saved them to my hard drive!

please post those pics!

Palm's lawyers already had a chat with the original poster and the photo was removed. Better download it from this link while you can. Aside: Is Palm now naming their products like Blaupunkt? If so, I want the Palm "Cleveland." No flames about my home city either.

The thumbnailed images appear pixelated because they are rendered in a lower resolution than what the device is capable of showing. To get a better idea of the resolution, look at the text box in the bottom right corner of the screen. I would have preferred virtual graffiti too, but would have to try this to see if I hated it, or if it was ok after you got used to it. It would be ok for arcade games that do not use the graffiti area...

BTW to the original poster, was there something on the ppcthoughts site indicating the speaker quality? I did not see it, or perhaps I just missed it. Or, have you heard the device? To me it would be a waste of time to put speaker holes in a device, then stick a cheap piezo driver there. They probably choose the top so alarms would sound louder when the device was in the pocket, and also so the speaker was not covered by your hands/fingers while gaming (like on all my thinkpads!).

Altema

It looks like gamers may be the target market for this Palm. The gamepad like scroll buttons indicate this.

I don't think the bottom slides up to cover the grafitti area, I think this is a space where a snap on KEYBOARD covers the grafitti area without increasing the width of the unit...

"I don't think the bottom slides up to cover the grafitti area, I think this is a space where a snap on KEYBOARD covers the grafitti area without increasing the width of the unit..."

This was one of my first thoughts. But see my post below for my new revelation. I now think that the joypad and buttons slide up but the length remains the same, providing an empty area below the joypad for your palms to rest on while playing games.

Scott

What if the buttons slide up to reveal a keyboard under it?

"What if the buttons slide up to reveal a keyboard under it?"

There you go, now you're thinking. ;)

I sure hope it isn't as simple as sliding up to make the device smaller. That would be nice and all, but I like these other theories better.

Scott

If indeed the "d-pad area" is fixed, and there is a removeable "middle piece" that is a snap-on keyboard, then it is either the smallest keyboard in history, or this unit is huge.

I've studied this picture quite a bit, and based on the curvature of the bottom of the d-pad area, I'm guessing that the D-pad area is indeed a sliding mechanism that slides back up over the graffitti area, and acts as the bottom of the unit.

Either way, it's curvature matches the TOP of the unit, so it doesn't slide back UP only to reveal a keyboard underneath.....that much I'm sure of.

"If indeed the "d-pad area" is fixed, and there is a removeable "middle piece" that is a snap-on keyboard, then it is either the smallest keyboard in history, or this unit is huge."

Not sure if I agree with that. The Treo's keyboard section is quite small.

"I've studied this picture quite a bit, and based on the curvature of the bottom of the d-pad area, I'm guessing that the D-pad area is indeed a sliding mechanism that slides back up over the graffitti area, and acts as the bottom of the unit."

I thought about that too and have a sinking feeling that you're right. If true, at the least, it will make for a nice, small device.

This could also be part of Palm, Inc.'s plan for the Graffiti lawsuit with Xerox. They could slide it closed and say, "Look judge, we complied and took out Graffiti." Case closed. ;)

Scott

Wow...all the free development information we give here! These boards are such a wealth of info to a company creating a new product!

I don't generally feel that it is appropriate to characterize a person's opinion as stupid. However, whoever started this thread is an idiot. How can you possibly make any intelligent comments about a rumored handheld from one picture. Call Sony to fix the design? Call the doctor to fix your mind!

If you look closely at the name "Oslo" (in the big picture) you can see that there has been some type of smudging that conceals the rest of the name. Could this be just a hoax?

"This could also be part of Palm, Inc.'s plan for the Graffiti lawsuit with Xerox"
No need, check out the Palm and Handspring press releases (or Palmgear). They've won!

Interesting machine this is.
Greetings, Roel.

"No need, check out the Palm and Handspring press releases (or Palmgear). They've won!"

Sorry, wrong lawsuit. A Judge threw out NCR's suit against Palm and Handspring, not Xerox's. The NCR suit had nothing to do with Graffiti.

---
News Editor

aha, so finally Palm folks start posting and curious about public opinion on the almost still secret product. (plus getting defensive and all ruffled up seing their baby gets trash by cynical net reader)

well pal. It stinks. Is this the uber-Palm that suppose to dominate the world? It needs work.

Physical screen size is still small, no fix for the long demanded virtual grafitti. There is no indication the device can handle memory and wireless cards at same time. Audio capability doesn't look too strong from the picture. The sliding pad concept is a no go. There won't be any leather case good enough for it.

All in all this more like a mid priced offering rather than top of the line, a direct competition to Toshiba E310.

"If you look closely at the name "Oslo" (in the big picture) you can see that there has been some type of smudging that conceals the rest of the name. Could this be just a hoax?"

---

No, the smudged part is probably the unique serial number for this unit. This is likely a prototype, and they've stamped unique numbers on the front of each one. The poster is just protecting the owner of this particular model.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

"Is this the uber-Palm that suppose to dominate the world? It needs work.

Physical screen size is still small, no fix for the long demanded virtual grafitti. There is no indication the device can handle memory and wireless cards at same time. Audio capability doesn't look too strong from the picture. The sliding pad concept is a no go. There won't be any leather case good enough for it."

No one ever said this was "The Perfect PDA"! We all know that doesn't exist--everyone's different. You made quite the assumption with the whole "uber-Palm" comment. No one ever claimed that.
There's no indication that it DOESN'T handle memory and wireless cards at the same time, why the assumption one-way?
And-
How can you possibly make any sort of judgement on sound quality from a picture?
This is a rumor! Maybe we should reserve final judgement for when we see the actual product. A whole lot of people ripped on the terrible Sony clam-shell design when it was just a rumor and said it would never sell. It seemed to work out fine.

(Self-confessed Palm Geek)

The bottom does indeed slide up to cover the Graffiti area.

Check out the rendered images in the story on http://www.pdabuzz.com

So people are saying... the built-in gamepad isn't perfect, where's the jogwheel, and why no virtual graffiti.

I think the answers to all these are related. I don't think this machine was built with gamers in mind (though they'll no doubt benefit from it). I think it was built to: (a) make an extremely small device, and (b) make it possible to do a whole lot of navigating around in the primary (built-in) apps without "opening" the unit. (No one has commented on the center dome in the "gamepad" -- could be a select button?)

Remember, too, that now that Palm is separate from Palmsource, they're free (indeed, under pressure) to differentiate their handhelds from those of other PalmOS licensees by adding new features or apps that aren't handed out to the other companies (something they started doing with their NotePad and AlarmClock apps, and similar to what Handspring has done with DateBk, CityTime, and Parens). What if Palm made some tweaks to their copies of the built-in apps, or included some add-on/replacement apps, that made it terribly easy to maneuver through your information in the basic apps using just the four-directions-and-select buttons of the "gamepad"? So you could look up a phone number, tweak your schedule for the day, check off a todo item, all without ever touching the screen, much less the graffiti area.

It looks like Palm has built a really small, handy OS5 machine. Don't know that this will be the one to replace my Clie 710 (no brand wars, please), but there will definitely be an ARM machne in my future, and the future is looking pretty cool.

Okay, well, just my $0.02

"If you look closely at the name "Oslo" (in the big picture) you can see that there has been some type of smudging that conceals the rest of the name. Could this be just a hoax?"

No, the rest was a serial number which was hidden to protect the person who took the pics.

I got to agree the smudge was to cover up a serial number. Jason Dunn from Pocket PC Thoughts was asked to submit the original photo without an edited serial number, which he hasn't. Personally, I don't like the design, it doesn't seem to be practical, like many say, I prefer VG in able to support a larger screen. I submit though, that what everyone is assuming as the speaker may be the microphone while the speaker is on the back like the sony's. Although, if that is a speaker, I hope it has headphone jack. In this case I'm interested in the Palm, but I'm much more interested in what's under the hood instead of the device itself.

"...that made it terribly easy to maneuver through your information in the basic apps using just the four-directions-and-select buttons of the "gamepad"?"

Now you're cookin'! A solution to the missing jog wheel which also avoids any patent infringement on the Sony design, and also gets rid of the right-handed bias of having it on the side. A face plate mounted navigation control. And it would be feasable to have it control a mouse pointer as well, like the pointer feature in the new PPK driver. Sounds interesting to me if it pans out. If not, at least I'd be able to make past two rounds of Defender with that control...

I'm the person who posted above. I just wanted to add that PalmStation (which I thought was dead) has had this story up for a while now, and that's how I originally found it.

That's my website above, and thanks to that link being slashdotted, I've used up my monthly bandwidth allocation. Please use http://www.tpug.org/news/Palm/palm_new_model.jpg instead.

RE: Here are the details, 802.11b and Bluetooth Build In!!!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 7/15/2002 8:43:59 AM

I had a chance to mess with it this weekend at Motorola. You are right, it does have a Motorola chip. Also has built-in GSM cell phone, 802.11b, Bluetooth. This is awsome, I absoluteley loved it. It is as big as a Toshiba e310, but way better craftsmanship (of course it's a Palm). Comes with user replacable batteries. Just like a Cell Phone. Also back of the unit soft like new Ericsson T68. I want one, can't wait!!!

Gizmo Rat!

Motorola CPU? Bluetooth, 802.11b, and GSM? You're a dirty liar...

It's not *that* strange that it showed up on a non-Palm focussed site first. The manufacturers sometimes provide per-production units to select developers (sometimes known as PVT units) who are bound by non-disclosure agreements. On occasion, someone who has access to these units will leak a photo, and on this occasion it was to PocketPCThoughts.com There are a number of developers who *could* leak info to any site they choose, but who actually honor their agreements.

The Palm Inc. lawyers who contacted Jason at PPCT asked for the unadulterated image which shows the unique serial number on it. If Jason complies, then that development shop is in trouble!

I'm kinda surprised that Palm Inc. hasn't contacted PIC with a request to remove the photo yet. (Of course, once it's out on the net you can't put the genie back in the bottle!)

I like to think of it more as: you can't take the pee out of the pool

:)

BTW, sorry if I offended Ed, here. I usually try to give someone the benefit of the doubt. To us geeks, getting a news story out 16 hours late (or whatever it was) can seem very slow.

Scott

It's funny how elaborate conspiracy theories can sometimes be deflated with simple explanations. My (censored) next-door neighbor cut through my cable line while planting shrubs and it is taking my (doubly censored) cable company an eternity to get my cable modem fixed. This has left me with no other way to work besides the public library. I'm glad I can get some work done at all but I can only do so for a few hours a day.

BTW, this also means I have no way to spell check any of the articles I run. Please be patient with me; I'm doing the best I can in trying conditions.

---
News Editor

To sum up, we all need to get a life. ;)

Scott

Given Palm's recent experiments with thumb-boards and Handspring's revelation that deep down we all really want them, I wouldn't be surprised if this space isn't for a keyboard. I also don't think the overall length of the device would be changed; I think there will probably be a snap-on keyboard that REPLACES the graffiti area...

Two caveats:
1, The above is mindless speculation on my part
2, That picture looks awfully shady - a bit like someone took pictures of the new Toshiba PPC, a mock-up of a Handera and an m515 and spliced them together, in the style of the ficticious new "New New-ton" that we saw a few months ago.

OK Here we go;
Its a Palm OS5 device, ARM running at 170mhz, 32mb, 320x480 screen, slide and hide virtual graffiti, which exposes a thumb board, D-Pad, head phone jack on top for mp3,1 sd slot, speaker for voice playback and microphone, will come with bluetooth stereo headphones-L&R.

~

"OK Here we go;
Its a Palm OS5 device, ARM running at 170mhz, 32mb, 320x480 screen, slide and hide virtual graffiti, which exposes a thumb board, D-Pad, head phone jack on top for mp3,1 sd slot, speaker for voice playback and microphone, will come with bluetooth stereo headphones-L&R."

I think that must be pure speculation, and bad speculation at that. If the device is real, it clearly has a hard-graffitti area, not virtual. If there's no virtual graffitti, that means 320x320 res at best. ARM chip plausible, 32 meg likely. Thumb board? Nah. MP3? Maybe, but I wouldn't put money on it. Headphone jack? If there's MP3, sure. Voice recording? Not a huge priority, but it's a slim possibility. But Bluetooth headphones? Not f*****G chance. That would be far too expensive to include with the unit. I haven't seen any BT headphones developed anywhere, and I don't think that Palm would be the first to put them out there.

"I haven't seen any BT headphones developed anywhere"

Then you obviously don't know much about Bluetooth :) They've been out for months, for example this one from Ericsson:

http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=ERIC_HBH-15

Those are not headphones, that is a headset for your telephone. In addition, it seems unlikely that Palm would include such an expensive device with the unit. Even after removing the microphone, you still have to deal with creating the stereo setup. And since no stereo bluetooth headphones have been created yet, Palm would have to carry the development cost. I share the above poster's feelings when I quote "Not [a] f*****G chance."

Hmm... you definitely can get bluetooth headsets (mic and speaker of course!) for the latest Motorola phones... only they cost a bomb, of course :).

OK here we go-

It's a Palm OS 5 ARM based unit on TI's OMAP processor at 206 mhz. 320x320 pixels, 16 bit color display, 32 mb, sd slot, universal connector, mp3 player, speaker with high quality sound, headphone jack, and a slider that can slide over the graffiti area to make the unit as small as an m100. It is not for an attachable keyboard, nor does it slide up to reveal a keyboard. That would be an absolutely DUMB*** design, and Palm has always been good about keeping their devices small and sleek. Talk to y'all later.

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]
[:(!][:(!][:o)][:o)][^][^]

Your speculation looks good, except for the MP3 player. I see little chance that Palm would include an MP3 player in a device. Look at their track record: historically, Palm provides the hardware and lets developers write the software. Take for example how no Palm comes with built in word processor, spreadsheet, or any thing but the basic applications.

A wonder if anyone's thought of this:

Suppose Palm decides to include a low tech removable keypad piece that simply presses on the graffiti area to register keypresses? Then they could include software that works similarly to Silkypad to interpret the presses on the graffiti area.

This seems like a low-cost possibility for a keyboard, although I know it might have a couple flaws. For instance, it wouldn't be able to register 2 simultaneous keypresses. However, if you look at it simply as an accessory for data input, and not the control of the whole system (like the Treo 90), I think it would be a positive idea.

Not a bad thought -- and possibly an interesting 3rd party aftermarket idea as well. The one thing that makes me think that it's not technically easy (perhaps because of the making that many buttons work in such a tiny keypress area that's designed as a touch-sensitive device rather than straight-to-electrode connection) is that nobody has come out with one before. All the 3rd party keyboards plug in to the serial port of the Palms. I'm not saying that it's not possible, just that it may be difficult given that the primary purpose of the graff area is to respond to touch, and a keyboard that snaps on might have a difficult time making sufficiently precise touches.

OTOH your idea would mean that the new unit would do both things that people are talking about here; it would make the d-pad slide-down-able, while allowing room for a snap on keyboard. Let's hope that if that's not what Palm is already planning, that someone else can come up with it soon!

>>The one thing that makes me think that it's not technically easy (perhaps because of the making that many buttons work in such a tiny keypress area that's designed as a touch-sensitive device rather than straight-to-electrode connection) is that nobody has come out with one before. All the 3rd party keyboards plug in to the serial port of the Palms.

Somebody has done this:
http://www.thumbtype.com/features.html

It seems pretty obvious from the photo that the button area slides up and down. If you look at the transition where the top of the unit necks down to the graffiti area there is nice continuous bevel. The transition from the graffiti area into the button area, however, has an obvious parting line which means these are two different pieces. The question isn't whether or not the buttons slide but what's under them?

As if WiFi is free????? Bluetooth is a much younger technology (wifi: 1990/bluetooth: mid 90's) than WiFi.....overhype (of Bluetooth) is why people have no patient. Patience required.

Bluetooth Headsets: Motorola, Nokia, Ericsson (3), GN Netcom (coming: Jabra (2), Plantronics, NextLink)
www.blueunplugged.com/main.asp?option=productrange&catID=3

Are your fingers broken? ;-)

We really don't care if you'll buy it or not.

Give the guy a break! If my MRS doesn't let me touch her buttons with my stylus, I'm not intersested

I thought that was a stupid reason for bit**ing about buttons too, until I got my M505 and actually did it... My Clie's stylus would 'roll' off the buttons, but the M505's buttons accept my stylus without question. :)

release the inuendo dogs!

????? What do you mean?

By the way: if it was fake Palm wouldn´t have taken actions against the pictures, don´t you think so?!

Phil

I compared the area you are talking about with the one on my m505 and they look almost the same. If this is a hoax, it is the best I've ever seen.

"By the way: if it was fake Palm wouldn´t have taken actions against the pictures, don´t you think so?!"

Actually, if I was a company that wanted to keep my plans ultra-private and someone concocted a fake mockup I'd probably have my lawyers contact them just so as to make people _think_ that it was real, thus keeping the really real device a surprise.

That said, I don't think that they're that clever. And this picture looks quite real.

Scott

If you want the best example that the pic is a fake, look at how it supposedly fits in the hotsync cradle. I have *never* had any of my palms not mesh up cleanly. You couldn't even put a thick business card between the unit and the cradle it meshes so well. This looks like a partner cradle and with a bogus unit & photoshop hack job.

Am I sure, no. Queries though: Did Palm really tell PPC Thoughts to take down the pics? What proof do we have other than their word.

Did Palm ask PIC to pull the pictures originally?

Has anyone else had the fortune of seeing OS5 running on a piece of hardware yet?

Where is the power button on the unit? Palm puts these buttons on the front of the unit. I see the power LED, which isn't lit up coincidentally, but not power button.

Anybody else notice some little things that just don't seem right for a palm unit?

Inglix

One thing is very hard to fake in this picture.

If you look at the top "Palm logo button" and consider the reflection/lighting, it matches the greazy finger glare and lighting direction on the screen.

If this guy photoshop it, he is VERY good.

"If you want the best example that the pic is a fake, look at how it supposedly fits in the hotsync cradle. I have *never* had any of my palms not mesh up cleanly."

Can't you see that the sliding section is in its "down" position? That's not the bottom of the unit you are looking at, only the bottom of the sliding section.

"I see the power LED, which isn't lit up coincidentally, but not power button."

Try saying "alarm LED". And can't the power button be under the sliding section? Or on top or a side of the unit? Sheesh, use a little imagination! Palm might actually change the location of the power button on their next unit. If that confuses you, certainly avoid buying it when it comes out.

"Anybody else notice some little things that just don't seem right for a palm unit?"

Yes; far too much innovation.

Perhaps the power button is the round Palm logo that is top center? Maybe it's on the top of the unit?

The comment about the unit not "meshing up cleanly in the cradle" is incorrect: any of the devices that use the universal connector (i.e. m5xx, i705, m125/130)have a clearance gap.

Remember all the people who insisted that the m130 was a hoax and pointed out all the "mistakes" in the pictures of it? If I just took a picture of my Palm Vx, I'm sure people would be able to find "proof" that it was a hoax too.

the artist made just one little mistake - but this is defenatly a giveaway. IF THE UNIT HAS A SLIDE DOWN PART AT THE BOTTOM OF IT, THEN HOW CAN IT SIT IN THE CRADEL - Standing ON ITS BOTTOM????? Dont you think that the wheight of the unit would of pushed down the palm, and CLOSE the pull-down peice????????

Sorry, beter luck next time

(p.s. Dear artist- i cant help being so aneletic, being a private investigater for 25+ years, its just natral)
(p.p.s. if you want you can show me your artwork next time befor you put it out. Maby i can help you, and then you can really fool the world)
(p.p.s. my rates are not bad)

>>the artist made just one little mistake - but this is defenatly a giveaway. IF THE UNIT HAS A SLIDE DOWN PART AT THE BOTTOM OF IT, THEN HOW CAN IT SIT IN THE CRADEL - Standing ON ITS BOTTOM????? Dont you think that the wheight of the unit would of pushed down the palm, and CLOSE the pull-down peice????????

Dear P.I - although it is possible that somebody with way too much time on his hands has done a good job faking this unit, the odds are far more likely that you are going to look like a complete idiot when it comes out in a couple of months. Oh yeah - why is it that the weight of the unit would push the device closed? Nobody would design a unit that way. It would click into place and require effort greater then the weight of the unit to close - this would hardly take cutting edge NASA engineering to achieve.

The only possibility I can see for this unit is a keyboard underneath the buttons. If the unit simply collapses to reduce the overall size, then where are the mechanicals for the applicaion buttons and navigation disk? (I too think the guy who said the unit would collapse in the cradle is on the right track. If gravity didn't cause it to collapse then insertion likely would...provided that there isn't a locking feature.) Assuming for a moment that it's for real, then I suspect the slide carries the buttons up and down but the keyboard and graffiti area are used to record input.

The other possibility is that the whole thing is a fake which wouldn't be too difficult to do. This is the kind of thing industrial design students create all the time as part of their normal coursework. (And who has more time on their hands to create something like this than a student? I have to say the screen looks a little dodgy, espically the division beteen the screen and the grafitti area which shows no shadow or discontinuity. The serial number in the photo would likely be a photoshop add-on done by the creator or someone later as a bit of real-world authenticity.

And as I mentioned right after you, I posted this theory first (on PocketPCThoughts). ;)

That said, why can't it be both? You could have a sliding area which, when closed, either makes the device shorter or simply exposes an empty area for your palms to rest on while playing games. When slid open, you could snap on an optional thumbboard over the Graffiti area. I think this would be nice as it would provide (again) area below the thumbboard for your palms to rest on, thus improving usability.

Scott

Sorry, but that makes no sense. If I don´t have a keyboard the Palm will look just ugly and when you take it our of your pocket itwill get stuck (because of the edges).

I think it will slide so you´ll have the smallest (also probably not the thinnest) Palm ever. Think about it: How often do you use graffiti? Most of the time you will look up appointments or read AvantGo.

By the way: I was looking forward to a D-pad for a while. When this unit comes out I´ll say goodby to my Sony´s JogDial.

Phil

I think you could be right. If you look closely, you will notice that the Palm is in a cradle. It seems like it would be difficult for the device to sit in a cradle like this with a sliding section open....

====
Boze
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It is probably pulled out for presentation purpose.

Phil

I think this makes more sense. It's actually a really great idea. Have both options without much sacrafice. I don't see how the screen is 320x320? Looks 160x160 to me.

The software does not support HR. But the fond and the button a definetly HR.

"By the way: I was looking forward to a D-pad for a while. When this unit comes out I´ll say goodby to my Sony´s JogDial."

That thumb pad is not a jog dial replacement. Think about it: (assuming you're right handed) to use that thumb pad you'll need to hold the Palm with your left hand to support it as you use your right hand to use the thumb pad. However, with the jog dial, you hold the CLIE in your left hand and operate the scroll and select options in one hand - which leaves your right hand to do other things, such as operate the phone or hold the stylus to write.

I too like the idea of a thumb pad on a PDA, however, not when it's in the middle like that and so close to the bottom edge: you can't operate the PDA one-handed (e.g. for a quick look up) when the thumb pad is so badly positioned.

That´s what I thought, too, before I got my T625c. But now I find myself using this (censored) up-and-down button more often than the JogDial. Don´t know why. And now I wish I hat the 505-rocker back. Funny, isn´t it?!

Phil

Perhaps the bottom section is a slide. In the open position it allows access to graffiti, closed a thumboard? Most people don't use graffiti and thumboard at the same time.

"That´s what I thought, too, before I got my T625c."

I've got a T625C and have never used the up and down button! That is the worst design mistake Sony has ever made (it's a close call between the buttons on the T series and the T425's screen) - and I've owned 3 Vaios, Network Walkman, Music Clip, NetMD, Minidisc, and Walkman!

You are right (that´s why I wrote "this *#!?(&'# up-and-down button).

But as long as a lot of apps do not support the jog (e.g. AvantGo) I don´t have no choice (as long as I don´t want to sroll line by line).

Phil

It seems very unlikely if it were a sliding graffiti cover that it could sit uncovered in the cradle.

well if the unit is thick enough and the sliding D-pad is hollow (no back side). It could easily slide down while it sits in the cradle.

It's definitely a sliding bottom, if the 3D rendered images over at http://www.pdabuzz.com are to be believed.

What a bunch of IQs!

Don't ANY of you realize that if the bottom slides UP, the frigging STYLUS is going to have to be VERY FRIGGING SHORT?!

Go to a store and see the Sharp Zaurus. It has a stylus that can only be loved by midgets (not dwarves; midgets).

>>Don't ANY of you realize that if the bottom slides UP, the frigging STYLUS is going to have to be VERY FRIGGING SHORT?!

Based on the comparison shot between the 'doctored' closed photo of this unit and an m515, the stylus could be almost the same size as current palm stylus.

look at your palm. do you think there is enough space for you to put on a keyobard on the graffitti space? I don't think so

(and figure out how small it is when the graffiti area slides in).

On second thought, perhaps it should be:

(and figure out how small it is when (IF) the graffiti area slides in).

:)

It looks like the exact same dimensions as the Sony Clie N760

If trends in Palm handhelds continue, the new hardware will allow that type of thing, but Palm will leave it up to the developers to actually implement it. And that's just the way I like it.

Peace Out
Alan

atrizzah, I'm talking about built-in MP3 audio player support through a headphone jack. It's up to Palm to stay competitive with other PDA vendors such as Sony and Compaq. This new device will most likely sell for $449 or higher. At that price, I would expect multimedia features.

Well, this is definately a multimedia device. I wonder why nobody else has commented on the large woofer in the lower part of this Palm. I wonder where they put the other 4 speakers?

I am all with you, I think Palm is getting the idea, from Nokia and Sharp, this eliminates expensive leather or metal covers. Maybe everything collapses on top of each other and the Palm becomes a tiny little metal case for it self, We'll see within couple of months...

I thought when everything collapses you need to call tech support instead ....

>"Palm needs to switch to a hi-res screen"

It is a Hi-Res screen. 320x320.

Still, I wish the graffiti space were soft-based (collapsible) like the NR70.

The article says 360x360 where I think it means 320x320.

Maybe it's not a directional pad but a rotary dial with a button in the middle like the Apple iPod uses? This could replace both the up/down scroll buttons and a jog dial. It would be better than a jog dial for left-handers, and allow one to look up phone numbers and such with the Graffiti area closed. More innovation... from Apple!

From the full size picture, it looks to be a D-Pad. If it were a rotary thingy, that wouldn't fare too well for gamers. I remember a comment being made earlier about a future Palm unit stating that Palm finally built a unit with gamers in mind, so I think that further indicates a D-Pad.

Furthermore, according to a rendering from PDA Buzz, the Graffiti area is, in fact, collapsable. I really want an optional keyboard pad to be able to go here. In addition, when collapsed, this would have to be the smallest unit yet.

Peace Out
Alan

Nice, thanx alot.

Lokks like a winner to me.

I just wish it had virtual grafitti and build in bluetooth (is it to much also to ask for Wi-Fi?). But maybe Sony will so that ;-)

Phil

not possible.

It won't fit a big battery in such small device. And Palm is not exactly an expert at "battery" saving technology. Their idea of saving battery is to reduce screen brightness and not putting a backlight on grafitti area. Now that they have additional load for audio system, i seriously doubt there is enough battery to also put CF slot and built-in wireless. (you think SONY can only get several ours on latest T class, wait until this one come out)

I just updated the picture. I made a side-by-side with an image of a palm m515, and resized both so that they had identical screen sizes. The size of the Oslo closed is just a little bit smaller than the size of the m515.

It looks very possible.

http://raj.phangureh.com/oslo-m515.jpg

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

I don't think that 802.11b is possible due to battery limitations. Furthermore, I'd rather have Bluetooth anyway (which is lower-power). Of course, we also need a lot more Bluetooth-enabled cell phones to make this useful. All I want is a Motorola Startac flip-phone equipped with Bluetooth (and maybe 3G, though due to the excessive costs of 3G usage, for now I'd be happy using old-fashioned slower data).

Scott

Big_Raji,
Why do you keep posting the "What's Wrong With This Picture?" link. You're going to give somebody a heart-attack.
For those who don't know what it is, it's a picture of a room with a desk and other furniture, etc. in it, there is text at the top of the web page that tells you to turn your speaker volume up loud because that will help you figure out what's wrong, then after about 30 seconds of staring at this quiet picture, an image of a screaming person is flashed on the screen and a loud scream is played through your speakers. Real funny-NOT!

Sorry man, it's my signature. I actually forgot I was putting that link in there.

When I think of a good signature, I'll change it. :)

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

"For those who don't know what it is.... Real funny-NOT!"

Dude! Are you kidding? I thought it was hilarious the first time I saw it. Don't go ruining it for everyone else!

Your photoshopped images are insteresting but I don't think I agree with the m515. If your scale is correct than this thing is going to be way too thick.

Try doing a comparison of when the screen is the size of the m130. This may be more realistic.

Perhaps somebody can take/provide some real pictures of a Palm m1XX device and a Palm m5XX device side by side? I have no idea how big an m130 is in comparison to an m515, so it would be difficult for me to do a 3-way split screen to compare the sizes.

I don't have any Palm brand devices, so can't take any real photos of my own.

---
For all the people that have suffered through my "What's Wrong With This Picture" Signature:
http://www.americanheart.org

Awww you wrecked the suprise...

I first saw that page at about 2:30 in the morning. I had turned up my surround sound speaker system quite a bit because I didn't hear anything... All of the sudden: AHHHHHHH!!!!!

It scared the crap out of me (not literally) but didn't wake my family (suprising..)

I have sent soooooo many friends to that site and it still is a funny as it was the first time....

-Bartman007

that signature of yours in NOT-FUNNY .....

ROFL from your new sig. I pretty much DID get heart attack from your "What's Wrong with this Picture?"

It's one of those things that I can laugh about NOW.

I guess I should say something on-topic. Uhhh... It looks like Palm is putting style on the backburner again. The side-by-side with the 515 really shows how boxy and dreary this thing is. And that color is putrid. Much like the Treo 300. Since when did Puke Gold become the "in" color?

Also, with the sliding mechanism, I think it will be harder to put a rail on the side for cases. I guess the rail will stop where the screen stops?

Me again. Check that. It's not gold at all. I guess I'm just hallucinating. But it's still boxy.

I wonder how many people have died from that "whats wrong with this picture" thing.

wow raji, that was really pretty awesome. even on this sh.tty notebook with bottle-cap speakers, it made me jump.

(sorry for coming late to the party, i just had to say something)

Screen size is limited by battery size. If you doubled the size of the screen, you cut battery life close to half; The processor uses a chunk, too. If you compensate by adding a bigger battery, your PDA becomes too big and heavy.

Cost is a factor, too. Doubling the size of the screen would more than double the price of the screen, already far and away the most expensive part of a PDA. Few will buy a $700 PDA; look at the PPC or Newton.

If you want more screen real estate, try a HandEra, the new Sony NR70, or a Pocket PC !!!

The battery life defense certainly seems plausible in that Sony T, Palm m5x5 etc reflectives eat power like it's going out of style with edge lights on.

What is hard to imagine is that a "tiny" screen with a maximum size of 2.75" x 4" (11 square inch) is hard to justify being high price. Laptops for less than $999 have 13-14" diagonal size screens. I'm sure the tech is significantly different in bulk, power usage and lighting, but that's approx 700-800 square inches!

I just think that this screen issue is a place for someone to really get a huge jump on the pack. I love the simplicity durability and functional convenience of my wife's m100. The only hang up was that the screen got smaller. m1xx has never gotten a second look since.

Imagine a "full" screen device @ Circuit City setting beside one of the current 1/2 screen devices.
Gratefully the pix show that Palm has at least gone to high rez. The archane static graffiti area on a OS 5 device belies my imagination tho.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Your arguement seems logical, but I don't think its realistic. Keep in mind for one thing that a PDA is designed to last multiple days on a charge, while a powerful laptop lasts only a couple hours. Also, remember that PDA's have significantly greater DPI's than laptops and that their batteries are significantly smaller. As technology progresses, however, I'm sure we'll begin to see that type of thing.

Peace Out
Alan

Not all transflective devices eat an unreasonable amount of power with the frontlights on, and with the lights off they can outlast a some of the monochrome devices. A bigger screen requiring more lighting would have a negative impact on battery life though...

To the original poster; All the Bible apps I have seen allow you to set the font size (normal, bold, large). If your particular app does not allow that function, perhaps you should switch to one that does. Note that with the M505, the readability decreases when the device is angled away from you, such as when it is flat on a table and you are sitting in a chair looking down on it. It looks a lot better when it is perpendicular to your line of sight.

OK, so keep the screen size the same, but shrink everything else. Why is there so much plastic relative to the display. Ideally I'd like a PC-card sized unit, with a screen frame of just a couple of millimeters - ie the whole unit is a display, aside from a couple of millimeters of surround.

I think that's a pretty unreasonable statement. Think of everything that must be contained in the device: CPU, mainboard, videocontroller, speaker, mic (in some cases), serial hardware, battery (big time), and the list goes on. Believe it or not, Palms like this, the Treo 90, the Handera 330, and the Sony NRs really are pushing the envelope on how much you can cram into that small of a box for a reasonable amount of money. On a side note, you know they do make Rolodex PDA's that fit in a PCMCIA slot. If what your saying is that they should make a Palm OS device to compete with that, well then maybe I see what your saying. Just don't expect it to match up to well to what we see in current Palm handhelds.

Peace Out
Alan

And *bing* after a 100 times the spring flies away ;-)

Phil

LOL. Prety funny. ;;)


Jim

Yeah, had me LOLing too! Funny stuff. To be honest, I love it when PIC gets these rumors and "mystery" pictures. All the whackos come out of the woodwork. People come up with the best suggestions. While some people complain about this kind of speculation, for me, it's the reason I visit this board all the time. Keep the rumors coming Ed!

AllanM

HAHAHA ......

No - brightness of the backlight.

Not the little one...
The big 5 point star (where the calculator one is one my M505).

Good catch! Yes, that's the favorites icon I think (that's what they use it for on the i705, right?). Based on that, I'd guess that it is, indeed, wireless in some way or another. This could mean either Bluetooth, mobitex (ala i705), or perhaps wireless phone (CDMA or GSM).

Scott

While the i705 was the first to use the star icon in place of the calc one, I don't think it is a sign that this is also a wireless model. I don't see any sign of an antenna.

I think Palm has realized that many, many people reprogram the Calc Button to be something else. So, instead of showing a picture of a calulator, they have switched to using the Star.

---
News Editor

It's good you're running this site instead of some of your readers, Ed!

"Yep, Vern, a star must mean it's wireless!" (read with extreme sarcasm)

Think, people, think!

Ah, I just remembered that the star maps to your favorite single application, right? Also, the device does not have dedicated hard buttons for email or anything, so I'd rule out i705-style wireless. I'd also expect some dedicated hard buttons for phone usage if it was a cell phone. All that being said, Bluetooth is still a possibility.

Could it be a bluetooth model? People seem to be assuming that its not, but there is no indication that that is the fact. It has a "favorites" button, but it does not have the i705's "email" button, which makes me think that perhaps this is a bluetooth ready device making it internet 'ready' (with the favorites icon) but not internet 'capable' out of the box (hence no email button).
As to what the slide/bottom half, is all about I have no idea. Thumboard hider, gamepad rester? In any case it makes no sense that this machine is going to "collapse" to a size of the m505 unless it is doing something in addition to that unit. Otherwise its going to be slightly larger in one iteration, slightly smaller in the other, but with no obvious benefit to that.
Well i guess we'll all find out in 60 days, right?
:)

On the HandEra's virtual graffiti screen, the "Calc" icon changes to whatever app you assign to it. So we're used to seeing a different icon there. Some of us have even "redrawn" the entire "silkscreen" area and put pictures and other fun stuff there. "When" Palm finally figures out how to put in a virtual graffiti area, you'll get used to it too!

In the mean time, take a deep breath; it likely doesn't have anything to do with wireless capability (as Ed stated).

I don't think this is likely, but I just want to throw it out there...

Since the speaker is at the top, and since the bottom can slide down, could this be a phone? Admittedly, the mouthpiece isn't visible, but it could be on the bottom edge. The D-pad could make it easier to dial numbers on an on-screen number pad without having to get finger grease on the screen. The sliding mechanism could bring the mouthpiece closer to your piehole.

Any takers? Me neither (as Ed pointed out, there doesn't seem to be an antenna) but it's a thought, particularly because of the placement of the speaker.

Two more thoughts about the phone idea:

Maybe the sliding button panel is covering a dialing pad?

Maybe they are doing what handspring did with the treo, only in reverse order. Perhaps this is the non-phone version (hence, no antenna and no mouthpiece), and the button panel is hiding a keyboard. And then later they will use the same form factor to release a phone version with an antenna.

Although it occurs to me now that the speaker is where it is so that it doesn't get covered up by the sliding panel, not so that it can be an earpiece.

...Anyway, just throwing ideas out there.

> Any takers? Me neither (as Ed pointed out, there
> doesn't seem to be an antenna) but it's a thought,
> particularly because of the placement of the speaker.

FWIW - My cellphone (T68 - I hope this is the Bluetooth Palm model I have been waiting for) doesn't appear to have an antenna either. It is possible to build them that way too.

Also, the first OS5 device Palm talked about was a wireless model ... though if it is that close to being released I am surprised we can't find additional details over on the FCC site.

NO antenna showing, BUT...
Check the upper left corner - it's got the same little "online" indicator the i705 has (or something VERY like it.

If you don't already look like a clown speculating such funny ideas, you definitely will when you try to stick that little corner of the device where the speaker is into your ear.

The star icon is the same as used on the 705. its for favorites I think...

Gotta agree with ya there

Peace Out
Alan

The LED could also be a charge indicator, like on the Clie T615C.

Remember the photo of the unit with the slide 'closed' IS A PHOTOSHOP FAKE made by a user in this group to show us what the unit would look like 'closed'. There is no proof that the unit even closes at all although many think it will. Don't make assumptions about anything other than with the first photo with the grafitti area visible.