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Comments on: Rumor: More Details on the Next-Gen Palm Handheld

Several weeks ago, an image surfaced of what is supposed to be Palm Inc.'s first OS 5 handheld, called the Oslo. A few things are immediately obvious from this picture, like the fact that, instead of having just Up/Down buttons like on current handhelds, it has a complete directional controller. However, the picture doesn't tell the whole story. A couple of people who've had access to this device were willing to reveal a few more things about it.
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Sounds Very Cool, But.....

Beavis @ 7/24/2002 10:01:59 AM #
3/4 of an inch thick? That's getting into the brick territory. I know it seems to pack a lot of features, but the thickness is the least appealing one to me.

I'll wait and see on this one.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:23:01 AM #
I agree....except for the part about the features. What features does this include that could make it so thick? BT? 320x320?

Sony has managed to make some of the thinnest models to date, and still have an MS slot, hi-res screen, on-board DSP, and other features. I can't see any reason to have this unit be so thick.

The unfortunate thing is that when Palm does come out with this hardware, it will be immediately comparable to (cover your eyes) Pocket PCs, which have significantly more impressive hardware. With something like Toshiba's e310 to compete with (which is half the thickness of Osloe) I think Palm will have a tough road to hoe.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:24:49 AM #
I have to agree. It seems a little chunky for my taste. I really like the low profile of my M505.
Size vs. m515
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:33:44 AM #
M515:
4.5" x 3.1" x .5"
Weight 4.9 oz.

Is the .75" thickness of "Oslo" vs. .5" of m515 that much diff in the real world?

I wonder how the rest of the dimensions/weight compare?

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:35:20 AM #
The fact that the bottom slides into the top kind of makes the extra thickness mandatory plus the fact that it is plastic which is going to make the case thicker too. For the extra thickness you get shorter length.
RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
jjsoh @ 7/24/2002 10:45:05 AM #
: Is the .75" thickness of "Oslo" vs. .5" of m515 that
: much diff in the real world?

I guess it depends on who you ask. I agree that it's not that significant of a difference. But when I put my Palm m505 in my pocket, it's much more comfortable than my Palm III ever was in that same pocket. :) Every little bit helps.

: The fact that the bottom slides into the top kind of
: makes the extra thickness mandatory plus the fact that
: it is plastic which is going to make the case thicker
: too. For the extra thickness you get shorter length.

Interesting point. Initially I thought that the TI OMAP1510 chip was bigger than the Intel StrongARM one in the slim 0.5" Toshiba PocketPC e310, but that's probably not the case. Then maybe because of integrated BT?

If the extra depth is due to accommodate the sliding out bottom, then I'd rather wait for a model that does not have moving parts. Not only for a more slim form factor, but because I moving parts scare me; they're more likely to break/loosen over time and through repetitive use. Anyone with a TV remote that has a sliding cover should know what I'm talking about. ;)


Jim

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:04:28 AM #
I hope that the boys at Palm are reading these comments. 3/4 inch is obviously 50% thicker than a m515. That makes a BIG difference when you carry the PDA in your pants pocket. Adding a hard case to the Oslo will make it an inch thick. An absolute brick that you will be hard pressed to carry in your pants pocket. I hope that Ed's sources are wrong. If it is significantly thicker than my 515, I may have to just pass on upgrading, or switch to a Clie. What a shame that would be, because I was hoping that Palm would stay away from making a PPC like brick.
RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
Beavis @ 7/24/2002 11:06:09 AM #
"Is the .75" thickness of "Oslo" vs. .5" of m515 that much diff in the real world?"

To me, Yes. It is 1.5 times the thickness of a Sony Clie T6xx or Palm m5xx series. That is not an insignifcant size difference.

The poster who mentioned the Toshiba PPC was right on the money. At first I thought it might have something to do with the processor, but the Toshiba PPC certainly proves that is not the case.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
Ed @ 7/24/2002 11:13:56 AM #
Please keep in mind, this info is from people who were only able to play around with an Oslo for a few minutes for one reason or another. People who actually have hardware given to them by Palm are under NDA and I couldn't find one willing to talk about it. That's why the info is piecemeal.

Also, the dimensions don't come from someone who took a tape measurer to one. I'm working from descriptions like "It is a little more than a half inch shorter than an m515" and "It is thicker than an m515. Maybe 3/4 inch?" So don't get your mind set in stone about any of this. It is a rumor.

---
News Editor

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:20:28 AM #
It's probably big to accomodate the battery for Bluetooth and Hi-Res (although Ed never explicitly comfirmed that it has hi-res). Palm may be more committed to healthy battery life than Sony is, but they're slipping on pocketability. I give it an "eh."
RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
Ed @ 7/24/2002 11:22:56 AM #
Second paragraph:
"All the sources agree, it is a 320 by 320 screen. "

---
News Editor
RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:56:17 AM #
With Sony already ahead of the game with 320x480, makes me wonder how many people will jump to the Oslo or see what Sony can do with OS5.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:02:49 PM #
In all honesty, for my needs and purposes , I'd like to see Palm just keep tweaking and refining the m515....juice up the battery capacity even more, make the grafitti area backlit, and put a 66 mhz Dragonball in there. I'd like high-res too but you can't ask for too much in that formfactor and this iS Palm we are talking about here. Right now I have an m505 in the Palm hardcase and that is absolutely as big as I am willing to put in my pocket. Oslo just ain't gonna do it for me--would a hardcase even work with that formfactor? Is there a rail on the left side to attach one?

Do date the best "feeling" palm in my pocket has been my old Vx with the hardcase. It was so light and so thin it was almost 100% unobtrusive.

V/m5xx Form Factor
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:23:46 PM #
I agree - it's a shame if that beautiful V/m5xx Form Factor is gone.
And dont forget the added leather case.
graph @ 7/24/2002 12:34:40 PM #
For a highend device like this people will always buy a case for it to protect the investment..and we all know how much bulk it adds. a hardcase isnt a good idea too coz it doesnt absurb any impact when you drop it. im sure it will total into an INCH.


But i have to admit, i love the directional button and voicerecorder.

gs

Palmpro, IIIe, Vx, IIIxe, m505
& Clie Peg-T665c owner

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:37:34 PM #
"For a highend device like this people will always buy a case "

this is not true - I always buy high end and never bought a case. if you take care of your things, don't work on a construction site, and aren't a klutz, you don't need a case.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
graph @ 7/24/2002 12:37:45 PM #
""In all honesty, for my needs and purposes , I'd like to see Palm just keep tweaking and refining the m515....juice up the battery capacity even more, make the grafitti area backlit, and put a 66 mhz Dragonball in there. I'd like high-res too but you can't ask for too much in that formfactor and this iS Palm we are talking about here."""

I like this guys idea. But it will hold back innovation. But still its a good and not too risky move. Im still skeptical with OS5 but i am open for convertion. My t665c is doing pretty well but if the juiced up m515 existed i would stay with palm.


gs

Palmpro, IIIe, Vx, IIIxe, m505
& Clie Peg-T665c owner

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:47:38 PM #
Yup, it'll hold the market back but hasn't Palm already done enough of that already? Better to keep an award winning, proven design that's a cash cow than put it to pasture only to be replaced by a brick.

Seriously, Gm has been selling their Astro/Safari vans for the past 15 years with a few tweaks and updates every few years (airbags, CD player, etc) to keep it current. As long as there's a market, they'll build 'em. Look how long Motorola has sold the Startac phone--most people don't care if it's a first gen analog model or a recent one with an EL screen and a web browser-they are still dazzled by the small size and Captain Kirk style flip action!

I think the number of Vx units still in use by executives and middle-aged types is a testament to the popularity of that formfactor and style. I think most middle management types would be hard-pressed to fill up their existing 8 megs, much less know what to do with a 175/206 mhz CPU. So yes, I too would continue to buy m5xx/V formfactor units if the could keep ramping up the battery life, screen quality, and clock speed, regardless of which OS they run. For what I use a Palm for, I am served well by OS4.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:08:39 PM #
>>I'd like to see Palm just keep tweaking and refining the m515....juice up the battery capacity even more, make the grafitti area backlit, and put a 66 mhz Dragonball in there

Thats fine except for one thing - the 66 mhz Dragonball Super VZ ISN'T ARM AND CAN'T RUN OS 5!! Motorolas MX1 can - but that starts at 140mHz.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:08:39 PM #
>>The unfortunate thing is that when Palm does come out with this hardware, it will be immediately comparable to (cover your eyes) Pocket PCs, which have significantly more impressive hardware.

Illuminate us please - how does Pocket PC have 'significantly more impressive hardware'? yeah - PPC run on 206 mHz vs 175mHz here (and yes - some now run on xscale - but we know the story there...), but Palms now have 320x320 screens (as opposed to 320x240 ppc), also have capability to do same quality sound of a PPC (whther or not they do is up to Palm or other liscensees). This unit also has built in bluetooth - like certain ipaq models. So where is the 'significantly more impressive hardware'??

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:08:39 PM #
I doubt that this unit is actually .75 inches. As ed said a couple of posts ago - these people did not measure the thickness, they simply said it seemed thicker then a m505 'about 3/4 inch. The Palm design team has to be very aware of the importance of this issue with customers - thats why they've mostly let the pack in this regard. Yeah - maybe its is .75 inches - but i bet its more like .68 inches or somthing like that.
RE: Thickness
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:52:54 PM #
The 705 is .61 in. thick. Oslo would have to be thinner than that....would'nt it???
RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
Palm_Otaku @ 7/24/2002 2:54:27 PM #
Pocket PCs, which have significantly more impressive hardware

I own a Toshiba e570 and it's a pretty cool device (despite the OS) but I don't think it has "significantly more impressive hardware" than the Oslo.

Once the ARM-based PalmOS devices are on the market, expect to see all kinds of debates about which processors are "better". But note that PocketPC is locked into using the Intel products (gee, no surprise there....) while there are a number of options available under PalmSource's "PalmOS Ready" program.

I think the next-gen PalmOS devices are going to compare extremely well to the PPC-clones.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:05:23 PM #
I agree with all the comments about the thickness of the Oslo. If it turns out to be thicker than the i705 then it would be somewhat disappointing especially because it will be a ground-breaking product in many ways.
RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:31:21 PM #
Greater shortess offsets thickness. Try carrying an M series Palm. No way is it like carrying a III. If it is light, and short it will feel like nothing at all.

Dont worry. Palm HAS no doubt tested "pocketabilty" and knows what its doing. Palm is NOT going to all the trouble of making it slide if it feels bigger in your pocket. That would defeat the purpose altogether.


RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:34:50 PM #
Wow.

I'm completely in the minority.

For me, what made my old IIIc "unpocketable" compared to my m505 was the LENGTH, not the THICKNESS.

Hey, to each his own.

For instance, I think Sony has it all wrong. I'd rather the device be WIDER (like a Palm III), and shorter, instead of narrow & tall. Again, Sony made those decisions based on the difference in hand size between our 2 peoples, so I completely understand their motive.

The Treo 90, for instance, has exactly the form factor I'd like. Shorter would be even BETTER (for me). Sounds like the Oslo fits the bill, as it is even shorter than the Treos.

My curiosity has officially been piqued.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
Altema @ 7/24/2002 3:48:33 PM #
"It's probably big to accomodate the battery for Bluetooth and Hi-Res"

Probably the most logical explanation. A plastic case will add a little bit to the thickness, but not a quarter inch. The difference in thickness between the M500 plastic case and the M505 metal case is not that much.

We also know Palm is concerned about battery life. Their own engineers were not happy with the battery life of the M505 during development, so they brought the frontlight down to a minimal level just to make it run longer... but we know how THAT panned out! Yes, the battery life was adequate considering the date for a thin color device, but look at the flak they received. I'm certain that Palm does not want the extra processor load, hi res screen, and wireless bringing the battery life down to "barely adequate". Having all of the mentioned features, and a battery that goes on and on, would make people rethink the value of pda's that can't make it through the day.

RE: Flip Lid???
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 4:18:32 PM #
Good comment about the Treo 90. A key feature of the Treo 90 is the flip lid. Will the Oslo have an integrated flip lid? The Treo 90 is 4.2 x 2.8 x .65 inches and weighs just 4 oz. If the Oslo is 4 x 3 x .65 and has an integrated flip lid, then that might mitigate the thickness concern and provided a shorter PDA that is very poketable.
RE: Flip lid
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 4:50:46 PM #
I was actually trying to figure that one out. How are they going to implement a decent cover for this thing. I can't see it coming from the side like they do now since the sides will move up and down with the sliding bottom. The only thing I can think of is that they'll do something similar to sony where it flips over the top but will the cover be Long to cover the Oslo while it's open or short to cover only the screen???
RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:04:30 PM #
>>Thats fine except for one thing - the 66 mhz >>Dragonball Super VZ ISN'T ARM AND CAN'T RUN OS 5!! >>Motorolas MX1 can - but that starts at 140mHz.

I'm sorry, but I believe you completely misread my previous post, as well as the other person's reply to it. What I meant was that there is still quite a market for a "relatively high end" OS4 handheld in an ultra svelte/thin m5xx formfactor.

Imagine an m515 with the Sony 665C specs....and w/o mp3, of course. Same OS.

If Palm could sell their new m105ish OS4 unit for under $100, and begin pricing their OS5 units at $300 or so, that leaves a huge gaping hle in the line. Imagine a slighty beefed up m515, "m525" we shall call it for now, to cater to those that want a somewhat more powerful unit than what Palm currently offers, but for whom an OS5 multimedia machine is total overkill (for now, mind you). This device could be brought to market cheapily, quickly, and easily and appease all of those that have sunk some $ into m500 style accessories and cases.

That's all I was saying--that for the forseeable, especially in the all-time great m500/Vx formfactor, there will be a good market for an easily pocketable, stylish OS4 machine. I never meant anything about a 66 mhz dragonball running OS5. At the very least, they could bump up the clockspeed and screen quality of the last of the OS4 models without cannabilizing any OS5 sales.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:30:33 PM #
"I'm certain that Palm does not want the extra processor load, hi res screen, and wireless bringing the battery life down to "barely adequate". Having all of the mentioned features, and a battery that goes on and on, would make people rethink the value of pda's that can't make it through the day."

I don't think this is the case, the Toshiba e series has all this and is half inch thin. Heck the Toshiba e310 has a 10 hour battery life even running on PPCrapware (that would be 20 hours on palm OS software).

I just wich Toshiba licenses OS 5, With the incredible feasts they have done on PPC just imagine what they could do with Palm OS.

It is roughly .75 inches thick.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:01:44 PM #
It is roughly .75 inches thick.

GAME-OVER MAN!

Note to Palm: The Palm V was the best selling and reviewed Palm of all time. The m505 and m515 were nice units that remained elegant although failed to have industry leading technology or a decent screen. When are you going to understand that thousands of people like me are waiting on a simple, THIN, Palm OS 5 handheld with the design elegance of a Palm V (or m505) mixed with Apple designs (ie. iPOD, etc.) for a new handheld?

I can't believe their isn't a "Palm V" handheld coming this fall, I am floored. Yeah Sony will have something and likely I will finally be forced to buy one (I am loyal, although I did buy my wife a Sony T615 so I could "try" it out... hehehehe).

Unreal.

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:10:14 PM #
I have a Compaq Ipaq and a Palm V. The Ipaq is acceptable form factor, but the Palm V/m500/m505 form is by far the best of any handheld on the market. It is perfect, especially with the built in flip cover or optional hard case.

Even the sonys do not have the same level of "pocketability" that Palm achieved with the Palm V form factor. Hopefully the Olso will at least have a built in flip cover.

If the Olso really is 0.75 inches thick, I suppose that my next handheld will be an m500 (which will be on the clearance rack at bestbuy...).


RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 8:40:55 PM #
> the Toshiba e310 has a 10 hour battery life

No it doesn't. This is a lie. I have one and the battery life is about 2 hours.

Get a brain
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:22:28 PM #
Game over???

I don't think so.

This unit is narrower and shorter than a Palm Vx.

Thickness is irrelevant. Heck, my Nokia cell phone is thicker than my Palm, but feels infinitely more "pocketable" due to its smaller dimensions.

I don't think you guys get it....THIS THING IS TINY!!!

Oh, and to the wildman a few posts up....blathering on about how the public has spoken, and they want smaller PDAs.

Ahem.....this thing WILL be perceived as smaller by the general public, just like a Treo is perceived as tiny by Joe Six Pack, and will thrive, just as the thick yet easy to sell m100 series.

Get a clue, dude.

This thing is STILL more "pocket-friendly" than the Toshiba, let alone the other PPCs.

It's all about the overall dimensions.

.....Oh, and I guarantee you this thing isn't bloody .75 inches thick, but that's another story........

RE: Sounds Very Cool, But.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 6:55:54 AM #
When up oslo is slightly taller than my palm III
When down it is half an inch smaller
The width and depth is around the same as my palm III
Not really that tiny, but i have never held a small model, only III and m105, which was small but wasted space on the round bit, and was thick
Size Theory
potter @ 7/25/2002 10:38:52 AM #
The Oslo is obviously a prototype device. A theory: With a small production run for the device and with designs not being completely final, Palm makes the Oslo's casing out of tooled plastic. However, the final version is slatted to have its casing made out of tooled metal. I could see that, if so, this could shave as much as a quarter inch off of the size of the device in all three dimensions. Thus bring .75 down to .5 (the stated thickness of the m515). I however would expect, because of the sliding graffiti cover, this device to be thinker than the m500 series.

Unit Name

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:07:52 AM #
The picture has been very obviously altered. Zoom in and in between the name Oslo and the Palm logo, you can see some one did a little airbrush to the units real name. I'm not 100% sure, but it looks as though the word Oslo was dropped in after the fact, as well.

Bruno

RE: Unit Name
chrisb @ 7/24/2002 10:12:14 AM #
I've seen the unaltered picture on another site. What's blurred out is some kind of serial number that Palm probably uses for tracking development units.

RE: Unit Name
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:14:42 AM #
The alteration you are talking about is where the unit's serial number was blurred out.
A link to a picture showing it unretouched was available here last week or so. Your speculation that the name was changed too is unfounded.
RE: Unit Name
wilco @ 7/24/2002 10:17:28 AM #
That air-brushed area contains the serial number of the unit. According to Jason of PPC Thoughts (who released the picture to his forum), it was done to protect the source of the leak. There were reports of unedited picture of the unit on the web, although I haven't seen them.

Here's a link to the unaltered photo Bruno
chrisb @ 7/24/2002 10:25:16 AM #
http://palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5975

It's right here in the PIC forums.

The altered area you speak of is a serial mumber, not a name.

RE: Unit Name
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 3:03:54 AM #
A friend in the know (affiliated with Palm inc.) tells me the units name is m866. Doesnt mean anything to me? But I suppose the 'm' is relevant, as in the m100, etc.

Has anyone heard this?


RE: Unit Name
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 3:09:43 AM #
why 866 ?? shouldn't it be something like 800 ?? since it's the first one in the series ?

OMAP 1510

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:20:51 AM #
here's what I found
"TI's OMAP 1510, for example, integrates its DSP (digital signal processor) running at 200MHz, with the ARM core, running at 175MHz. According to Bork, a DSP executes almost twice as many instructions in one cycle as an application processor giving its dual-core solution, 400 MIPs for the DSP plus 175 MIPs for the ARM, for a total of 575 MIPS.

Peter Green, general manager of Intel's handheld computing division, said that due to changes in the architecture, the 400MHz XScale will give users 480 MIPS, 1.2 MIPS per megahertz."

RE: OMAP 1510
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:28:39 PM #
Are you saying that the OMAP executes instructions faster? Interesting. I thought the DSP was all about video - am i confused on this point?
RE: OMAP 1510
Palm_Otaku @ 7/24/2002 2:51:37 PM #
Yeah, it's quite an impressive chip. Check out Motola's MX1 it also has a super-cool feature set. :-)

RE: OMAP 1510
Smaug @ 7/24/2002 5:15:53 PM #
Seeing as how the actual processor is 175 mips, I don't think you can compare it to the XScale. The DSP is diffrent, it's for specialized audio or video coding, so you especially can't add the 2 for performance. What it does mean is audio/video will be very smooth on the palm.

Audio question?

Foo Fighter @ 7/24/2002 10:22:55 AM #
>"The Oslo has a built-in speaker and Palm OS 5 has the ability to play CD-quality digital audio.

OS 5 also has the ability to record sound. However, it is not yet known whether the Oslo has an internal microphone."

We know OS5 supports CD-quality audio...but will the Oslo have a headphone jack and MP3 playback?

RE: Audio question?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:29:06 AM #
if it doesn't, then, it's a ****ing piece of ****.
RE: Audio question?
Palm_Otaku @ 7/24/2002 2:49:18 PM #
How about a cool pair of Bluetooth stereo headphones? :-)

RE: Audio question?
Foo Fighter @ 7/24/2002 5:51:00 PM #
> "How about a cool pair of Bluetooth stereo headphones? :-)"

Yeah, that would be cool. No more wires!

Of course, after being exposed to those radio frequencies so long, you'll probably end up with brain cancer. ;-)

RE: Audio question?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 12:16:37 PM #
ohhhh!!
bluetooth headphones. That would be cool except you couldn't use them on planes!
RE: Audio question?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 6:44:39 PM #
Actually I read a few months back that a couple of airlines in the US are in the process of clearing BT for on-board use...

Broadcom: ''Palm Bluetooth PDA before Christmas''

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:22:53 AM #
Palm's Bluetooth Chipmaker Broadcom told me, at the Bluetooth Congress in Amersterdam, that Palm will come with Bluetooth PDA before Christmas maybe!?

Palm's Bluetooth Software Provider Extended Systems thinks early next year!?

We will see.

RE: Broadcom: ''Palm Bluetooth PDA before Christmas''
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:44:44 AM #
I'm not sure how you got that Palm wouldn't have a Bluetooth handheld until next year from someone telling you it would be out before Christmas. September is before Christmas. Early next year is after Christmas.
RE: Broadcom: ''Palm Bluetooth PDA before Christmas''
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:31:09 PM #
>>I'm not sure how you got that Palm wouldn't have a Bluetooth handheld until next year from someone telling you it would be out before Christmas. September is before Christmas. Early next year is after Christmas.

Do people ever carefully read somebodys post before opening their yappers to say something that makes them look dumb? What the guy is saying is thyat the BT hardware supplier says before christmas (which agrees with the Oslo speculation) BUT the BT software provider says next year - he was reporting what he heard from these companies and wondering out loud what this actually would mean. Re-read the frickin post!

RE: Broadcom: ''Palm Bluetooth PDA before Christmas''
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:14:03 AM #
LOL. Mister I.M. Anonymous at 7/24/2002 2:31:09 PM is 100% right. Read before you speak.

My point was that my question to these companies have raised me question marks????

I did saw many (iPaq 3870/3875 with Integrated Bluetooth and) Palm Handhelds with Bluetooth Cards used as demos. The Bluetooth Headsets were working great. The Bluetooth road was/is bumpy but very interesting when it comes to fruition.

Bluetooth Usage: To give you an idea.....

-Bluetooth PlayStation2 gamepad
-Bluetooth (wireless onboard electronics) and Telematics
-Bluetooth Keyboard
-Bluetooth and GPS
-Bluetooth Printers
-Bluetooth OS application(s)/software
-Bluetooth Logboard (Tablet)
-Bluetooth PC/Flash Cards
-Bluetooth Phones
-Bluetooth Headsets
-Bluetooth PC and Notebooks
-Bluetooth Access Points
-Bluetooth USB adapters
-Bluetooth PDA's
-Bluetooth Pen
-Bluetooth Camcorders
-Bluetooth RS232 & serial
-Bluetooth ISDN Access Point/ISDN Adapter (and more)
-Bluetooth Suitcase
-Bluetooth Battery
-Bluetooth for tracking, monitoring and identification of objects (suitcases, laptops, bicycles or even children)
-Bluetooth Mouse
-Bluetooth - Medical applications
-Bluetooth interface for medical instruments
-Bluetooth On-Line

http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=34312


RE: Broadcom: ''Palm Bluetooth PDA before Christmas''
Beavis @ 7/25/2002 8:20:48 AM #
Bluetooth Pen??

Would that be like, you write on a piece of paper and it also shows up on your computer screen? That would be cool and possibly useful. Chip size would have to shrink dramatically though.

RE: Broadcom: ''Palm Bluetooth PDA before Christmas''
Crash Override @ 7/25/2002 3:00:20 PM #
Yeah Ericsson have been pushing this idea for use especially with their BT Phones.

The BT Pen has been on the cards for a while but it's always been 'just around the corner'

http://piersbell.tripod.com/

16 Mb or more?

wilco @ 7/24/2002 10:20:50 AM #
Hopefully, PIC's speculation on the unit having more than 16 Mb is right. But given Palm's track-record of releasing only the bare-necessities on their units, my guess is that it will have 16 Mb. Palm didn't pioneer 16 Mb Palms, it had to take a licensee to do it (Handspring); it didn't release USB connections until both Sony and Handspring has; it didn't make High-Res handheld (yet); it didn't make expandable Palms before Handspring and TRG/Handera has. So point is that Palm will not innovate and put additional hardware into their unit unless it was forced to by competition and/or other factors.

RE: 16 Mb or more?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:44:45 AM #
Your sure right about that one, but don't forget that Palm is a company of its own now.
The whole time Palm made the OS and some devices to show how it works and let licencees do the rest.
Now Palm has to make a stand on its own. I guess that it will have more, but wonder if it has SD?

Dennis Koerner

RE: 16 Mb or more?
Ed @ 7/24/2002 10:50:36 AM #
Yes, it has an SD slot. I added something to the article to make this clear.

---
News Editor
RE: 16 Mb or more?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:29:39 PM #
my guess (and for their sake it better be) 32MB minimum. Usually Palm doubles RAM on upgrade cycle.

How about a better VFS?

RE: 16 Mb or more?
dsm363 @ 7/24/2002 1:37:54 PM #
Exactly. 32MB should be the minimum for a high end device. I wish they could make VFS "seamless" like the HandEra.

RE: 16 Mb or more?
PalmAddict @ 7/24/2002 3:08:22 PM #
Well, if the rumor is acurate about Bluetooth, then Palm will be innovating with the first PalmOS based device with Built-in BT. Short of Brando, BT is not available in the US for the Sonys, but I can go into just about any "decent" electronics/computer store with a PDA section and pick up an overpriced BT SD card for a Palm. I see that as being a leader in some form of new technology for the platform.

-Rusty

"We're a planet of nearly six billion ninnies living in a civilization that was designed by a few thousand amazingly smart deviants."

-Scott Adams

RE: 16 Mb or more?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:36:36 PM #
Who says Sony wont release OS 5 first? They are far better at keeping stuff under wraps than Palm is. Sony rumors come out VERY close to actual release. Palm rumors are always leaked MONTHS in advance. My guess is that Sony will release OS 5 in the same general time frame as Palm. My guess is that Palm will be first with Bluetooth, as wireless is their focus. But ram? Sony will do 32 or 64 in the same general time frame as Palm, if not sooner. Palm come out with 32 at the same time as Sony does 64 very possible. Mark my words Palm wiill not get the edge in memory.
Better be compatable with PiDirect from day 1
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 11:32:22 PM #
It had better be 100% compatable with PiDirect from day 1 or there will be alot of angry people. Remember when the 505 was released and all you could put on the card was .prc's and they all had to be in one tab. THAT card management was weak.

Too late....

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:44:57 AM #
Finally they developed the features which you can see on Clie since mid 2001??

HiRes and speaker might be new things for Palm users, but not for Clie users. However they will be excited about this.

For those Palm m500 series users who claim "We don't need CLie because we don't need HiRes!" probably want to stay with Palm m500 because they said they don't need it.

RE: Too late....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:21:40 AM #
I'm an m515 user only because of the absolutely crappy, ****ty, utterly useless buttons on the clie. The 320x320 screen was hard to resist, but those buttons aren't just a small annoyance, they are a complete SHOWSTOPPER.

Also have heard bad things about Sony support. Never had any problems with Palm support.

I wish Palm would innovate faster, but Benhamou really has his head up his ***. He actually thought Audrey would take off!

RE: Too late....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:42:19 PM #
Even in other areas SONY has always been the innovators. It is pretty groundbreaking from a business standpoint to make something standard. You COULD get a Sony CD player in 1983 but it wasn't standard. It took other companies to make it standard. OS5(and Palm)standardizes all of the "innovative" features so that Sony can move on and develop other things.
RE: Too late....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:22:06 PM #
palm support sucks! and i hardly say anything like that. i purchased special edition red palm m505. it didn't work after a week or so. so i called the tech support. they said send the unit back and they will send the replacement. they sent the regular palm m505. so i called, and they say there is nothing they can do. so i said i will return the unit since they had 30 day return policy. palm store said i can't return it since i don't have the red one.... i was frustrated and needless to say, i don't have the red one. the cradle died 3 times. i gave up on palm. they are by far, the worst tech support i encountered.
RE: Too late....
Palm_Otaku @ 7/24/2002 2:45:19 PM #
As much as I like Clies, the "Sony trolling" and "Palm-bashing" are getting very tiresome. Ed, I second Foo's motion below to strongly consider getting rid of Anonymous posting. It would add greatly to the civility of the site (as it did on PDABuzz).

Heh, and although I try to resist troll-bait: the ARM-processor, built-in Bluetooth, D-pad and sliding design aren't innovations...? Spare me.

RE: Too late....
Altema @ 7/24/2002 4:12:15 PM #
"Heh, and although I try to resist troll-bait: the ARM-processor, built-in Bluetooth, D-pad and sliding design aren't innovations...? Spare me."

Hey Sony already has all of that! Well, with the exception of the ARM-processor, built-in Bluetooth, D-pad and sliding design...

(sorry folks, couldn't resist)

RE: Too late....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 10:50:50 AM #
I was the one who left the "significantly more impressive hardware" comment, so I feel I need to defend it a little...hopefully without sounding like I'm a troll for PPCs :)

Take a look at the NEC, Casio, or Toshiba for examples of the best hardware; 3.8" screen, dual expansion slots, USB master (for whatever that's worth), integrated Bluetooth and WiFi, plus cards that can do GPRS and GSM communications, not to mention the other peripherals that come with an industry-standard CF slot, such as camera, paging card, GPS, etc.

I'm not saying that I like PPCs -- I don't even think that all that hardware is necessary. Most people don't need to watch 30-second video clips on their handhelds, and the added complexity of all that crap significantly detracts from the core features of the unit. But you have to admit, the hardware coming out on PPCs in more impressive than the Palm stuff. Not better, just bigger.

D Pad!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:58:59 AM #
I like the D Pad. Looking forward to seeing a D Pad on a Clie. Now that the processor is up to snuff, I'd like to see some games ported to the Palm OS (like MAME). I realize that many users don't play games and music on their PDA, but since any Palm PDA does what I need, it would be nice to have one that does what I want as well. Of course, it would be very nice to have virtual grafitti.
RE: D Pad!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:11:57 PM #
Yeah. Im wondering how long before the first Quake port to Palm OS 5. My PPC friends never shut up PPC Quake:) Seriously - expect full ports of a lot of desktop titles that have made it to PPC but have been held up by Palm 68k architecture. And remember - OS 5 supports higher resolution then PPC - so in theory we could eventually expect slightly better graphics from Palm than PPC. And as Macromedia has already said - Flash is coming for Palm.
Wierd D-pad
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 6:26:25 AM #
The D-pad is weird, it has no indents and a button in the middle, will it be good enought for gaming, (which is what this device seems to designed for, most games dont need graffiti area, and palm os 5 allows better graphics and sound)
RE: D Pad!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 1:16:17 PM #
It is not a gaming D-pad. It is on a sliding platfrom, and the middle button is not directional.

Overall, you won't have accurate control on the D-pad on a frenzy game. So, say goodbye to Oslo as gaming platform. (well maybe puzzle and buttons, but definitely not directional pad)

Slide-out graffiti area?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:58:54 AM #
I was thinking that this mechanism of having a slide-out graffiti area was wasteful. Instead, why not do something like a virtual graffiti area and have a slide-out keyboard instead? I would prefer this much more and would find this appealing as to upgrading. What do you guys think?
RE: Slide-out graffiti area?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:05:18 AM #
I'm not sold on the thumb-keyboard concept, but then I've been using Palms since '97 so I'm very comfortable with Graffiti. It seems to me that the d-pad (with what clearly looks like a "select" button in the middle) would allow non-stylus use of programs. If so, the owner could use the "Oslo" in its shortened configuration most of the time and only have to deal with a longer device when doing data entry. Looks like a real winner to me.

Just had another thought. What if the d-pad could be combined with T-9 predictive input? Why include a full thumb keyboard (an oxymoron to be sure) if the "Oslo" could allow keyboard use through the d-pad, a select button, and a 12-button telephone keypad-style virtual keyboard? OK -- enough wild speculation for today.

RE: Slide-out graffiti area?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:47:40 PM #
right on.
RE: Slide-out graffiti area?
Strider_mt2k @ 7/24/2002 6:20:54 PM #
Agreed. It's clear that it can be done, and it isn't breaking the bank either.


strider_mt2k@yahoo.com

I bet the device IS named Oslo.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:06:52 AM #
And I bet it has built in bluetooth.
Here is why.
Oslo is a city in Norway.
And "The Bluetooth name itself comes from the 10th century Danish Viking King, Harald Blåtand (Bluetooth in English), who united and controlled Denmark and Norway, hence the inspiration of the name, by uniting products through Bluetooth.

Harald apparently enjoyed eating Blueberries, to such an extent that his teeth were stained blue!"
(from http://www.btdesigner.com/info.htm)

Plus, from the pictures, the name Oslo looks like it is supposed to be there. The i705 leaked pictures had stickers with code names (Skywalker) and such. Why would Palm make the Oslo name on the hand held look so nice?

Anyways, it sure is fun to guess about this stuff.

RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:35:23 AM #
Well, I don't think it will be named Oslo, but your speculation as to the reason behind the Oslo name appears to be dead on correct. In fact, your explanation makes so much sense as to why the CODENAME is Oslo (Bluetooth) that I think it effectively eliminates the possibility of the device actually being called the Oslo.
RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:02:42 PM #
"Oslo" has already been trademarked by another company for very similar application. It would be difficult for Palm to get around this prior trademark. The only way they could really do that is by purchasing the trademark from the current owner. If they did that, then it would make the Tungsten, Veld, and Zire trademarks irrelevant. I've not seen Palm in the past trademark false names in an effort to hide the real name of a product, so my bet is that these three names are the names of the new products (unfortunately).

JBH

RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:05:12 PM #
Has anybody considered that OSLO is simply "Operating System 5.0" Remember in Latin that the letter L means fifty.
RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:35:55 PM #
Have you considered that the numeral 5 in Latin is represented by "V"?

OSLO = Operating System 50.0
or
OSVO = Operating System 5.0

See, it doesn't work.

RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
Red Mercury @ 7/24/2002 2:40:33 PM #
I like the "OS 5.0" idea. "L" is 50 in roman numerals.

But then, there is another '0' after the 'L', so OSL0 would mean Operating System 500... :)

No, I like it too much. OSL0 would mean "Operating System 5.00". Perfect.

Scott


RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:29:46 PM #
Actually if you convert OSLO to Wingdings, you get a sad face, crying between two surrender flags.

So in actuallity, the new palm is going to be running PocketPC in a act of defeat.

me am so smrt

-J-

RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:48:06 PM #
Or in Pig-latin it would be SLOOA.

Brad

RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:42:04 PM #
oh my God.....he's right about the wingdings
RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:43:49 PM #
no Pig Latin would be:

Ixne on the Oh-So-Slow-eh

RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:05:45 PM #
I stand corrected! JBH
RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 4:44:10 AM #
Or maybe its called Oslo because it resembles Oslo's massive 1950's city hall?

FYI The Roman's didn't have a character for zero - it was up to the Arabs to come up with that so Operating system 5.0 would read OSL or possibly OSL

RE: I bet the device IS named Oslo.
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 1:17:58 PM #
Somehow, though, OSL doesn't quite cut it as a name.
Blue teeth
Dan Harkless @ 8/6/2002 3:28:57 AM #
"Harald apparently enjoyed eating Blueberries, to such an extent that his teeth were stained blue!"

Ewwww! Why the heck were the inventors of Bluetooth inspired to name the technology after something so gross? (I know they were supposedly going after the "united disparate kingdoms" connotation, but still...)

does anyone have the info about the ''sub-$100'' device

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:27:48 AM #
"...
Palm's CEO Eric Benhamou said in early June that his company would be putting out three new models this fall. One would be a smartphone and another a sub-$100 model......"

I am not as rich as some of you (but as exciting as most of people around this forum), and thus what caught my attention is this so-called sub-$100 device. Any information yet? I wonder if it can be as good as CLIE SL-10...

Any info on the cheap model?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:32:00 AM #
IMHO i think it will probably be a cheap palm os 5 or a new low budget palm os 4 to replace the m105.
RE: does anyone have the info about the ''sub-$100'' device -
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:46:52 AM #
i would shop instantly if there will be a 100$ bluetooth palm - sounds super great - phone t39 man
RE: does anyone have the info about the ''sub-$100'' device -
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:08:53 PM #
Hmmm, i'd wager thatt the new "sub-$100" device will be m10x derived, but in a more stylish casing. It's gotta be thinner than what they have now. Figure on OS 4.1 and the Universal Connector as well. No cradle, just a sync cable. Disposable battery-powered as well.

The screen may very likely become even smaller, as might the ram amount. An SD slot is (IMHO) almost guaranteed, because Palm sees $$$ with add-ons. Palm would rather release a 2 or 4 meg unit with SD capacbilities than an 8 or 16 meg unit without.

I'd also expect either some wild'n funky faceplates to be sold alongside the unit or even come in the package. Maybe they will do a "wrap" concent similar to what Motorola has with the v120c phone series. Count on at least a game demo or two (if not a full game) to be included to target the youth market. I'd say there is a good chance of the IR port being eliminated as well due to cost concerns. Ever notice how IR is disappearing from laptops these days as well? It might end up being that the m105 is a better bargain buy than the model replacing it, sorta like the new Sony SL10 vs. S360. Like the poster above said, this is a blast to sit around and speculate. I hope all the manufacturers have people reading these boards and taking notes!

P.S. While the idea of the snap-on game pad for the SL10 is nice, I prefer Palm's way of integrating it into the unit. I used to have a Vx + palm III dock + Widget Works game pad combo...worked like a charm but talk about a buly, wobbly and unwieldy solution! We can only hope that if the new low-priced unit runs OS 5 that it'll have a D-pad integrated as well!

RE: does anyone have the info about the ''sub-$100'' device
kevdo @ 7/24/2002 2:56:12 PM #
>there is a good chance of the IR port being eliminated

You are high, right? Releasing a Palm handheld without IR would be crazy stupid. I'd bet at least 25% of people who receive add on program ONLY get them through IR. Especially folks at the low end.

Besides, if the device is game oriented, IR is a feature that game player may want.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: does anyone have the info about the ''sub-$100'' device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:27:42 AM #
Yes It is going to sell for $ 89.00
and is throw away.

And come in 3 colors of plastic

black and white screen


RE: does anyone have the info about the ''sub-$100'' device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:37:08 AM #
THE INTERNAL DESIGN NAME IS

CUB

USB 2.0? With 'On The Go' spec?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:45:58 AM #
Does anyone know if this device will support the new USB 2.0 spec. This is important because there is a new standard defined in USB 2.0 called 'OTG' (On The Go) which allows two USB slave devices to communicate. i.e. Your Palm could connect to cameras, printers, cell phones, etc over USB. I know that Palm was involved with the OTG spec, but I don't how close it is to production.
RE: USB 2.0? With 'On The Go' spec?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:32:50 AM #
No, the molex connector on the device
and the chipset inside will only support
USB 1

Absolutely not

sandbuck @ 7/24/2002 11:52:11 AM #
Too thick for the currently known number of features. Too many moving parts. Where is the elegance of the V/5-series design? This is a step backwards design-wise.

RE: Absolutely not
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:27:40 PM #
agreed.

Where's IDEO? Product design is the most inportant thing these days since the technoogy is so dam cheap.

RE: Absolutely not
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:47:59 PM #
Too many moving parts = troubles down the road
RE: Absolutely not
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:52:24 PM #
Oh my god - it has a sliding section! The world as we know it will surely end just like it has for Sharp Zaarus and NR series owners! horrors! A moving part....a moving part!!!! I KNEW PALM WOULD SCREW THIS UP!!!!! I was waiting - and ah ha ....a moving part!
RE: Absolutely not
ahecht @ 7/24/2002 2:53:38 PM #
Exactly. IDEO did such a good job on the Treo, Vx, Visor Edge, and the and Visor. Does anyone know who designed the m10x and i705?

RE: Absolutely not
Foo Fighter @ 7/24/2002 3:31:42 PM #
> "Does anyone know who designed the m10x and i705?"

Not sure about the i705, but the M100 series was designed by Lunar. Same company that designed the original iBook.

RE: Absolutely not
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:34:07 AM #
I 705 WAS LUNAR
RE: My last Palm
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:55:49 PM #
>>>"It has a 206 Mhz processor, 64 MB ram, Compact Flash & SD/MMC slots, built-in slide out Keyboard, D-pad, replaceable Lithium-ion battery, near-Ipaq quality screen, MP3 and Mpeg movie players, Microsoft compatible word processor/spreadsheet/presenatation software, Games, Java, skinnable GUI, great wireless support, full Opera web browser with SSL support, all the standard PIM apps, + tons of free Linux applications."


New Palm OS 5 devices will have the capability to have all of these features - it is just up to the liscensees. But as a minimum, expect hi-res on most devices, ARM processor comparable or same as yr Zaurus, MP3 and movie players that take advantage of ARM and new multimedia capabilities of OS 5. Palm OS 5 has the 'great wireless support' of which you speak and units from Palm, at least, will have a full built in browser (there are other 3rd party browsers already). Virtually all PalmOS units come with 'documents to go' - or other Office compatible app suite. The NR series sony has a keyboard like yr Zaurus and they will certainly release an ARM based OS 5 version (and others certainly will realease OS 5 units with keyboards). Again - what is the great feature gap now that OS 5 runs on ARM and has the ability to do hi-res and decent sound? Oh thats right - unlike Zaurus, Palm has a ton of software available to run.....

And have you heard? Sharp is in trouble because they are getting slaughtered by Sony in Japan - the only place that really matters to them in terms of sales (they may have created a buzz with North American geeks - but that hasn't translated into sales). Check it out:
http://www.pdabuzz.com/News/viewnews.cgi?newsid1024957072,1419,

Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates

bcombee @ 7/24/2002 12:37:17 PM #
Palm and Pepsi have started a back-to-school $20 rebate program for the m125, and your purchase has to happen from now until September 9. I would guess that the new devices will show up sometime around September 10 -- often, rebates like this are structured to effectively reduce the price of a model before its discontinued. Discontinuing the m125 and replacing it by the new, sub-$100 model, wouldn't happen until after the end of this time.

--
CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
Foo Fighter @ 7/24/2002 12:53:21 PM #
I hate Pepsi. Palm is dead to me now. :-/

RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:05:10 PM #
I agree, they should have used Coke instead?? Palm is really screwed now....and you need to GET-A-LIFE.
RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
Foo Fighter @ 7/24/2002 1:12:15 PM #
>"I agree, they should have used Coke instead?? Palm is really screwed now....and you need to GET-A-LIFE."

You moron! It was a joke!

Ed, would please stop allowing anonymous posts? A simple registration requirement would eliminate much of the pollution on this site.

RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:25:16 PM #
sorry to upset you Mr. Foo. I didn't get the joke. sarcasm doesn't come across very well on a computer screen.
RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
iain.collins @ 7/24/2002 1:54:24 PM #
Hmmm didn't get the sarcasam - your not American by any chance? ;)

RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:43:09 PM #
No I am not. But I do live in America. Does that qualify me as someone who's too stupid to decipher that wonderful, ever-so-humorous wit and light-hearted sarcasm of the european native?
RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:45:39 PM #
More fuel for the imagination: Palm is offering a $100 rebate on i705's bought between now and 10/31 with activation of PalmNet service.

http://www.palm.com/promotions/i705rebate02/

Hmmm... could that mean the release in November of the rumoured "smartphone" unit?

RE: Rebate Expiration provides clue on release dates
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 8:39:32 PM #
Also, Palm has a $100 cash rebate on every m515 sale, and a $150 rebate on every m130 sale in Australia in June and August.

Above figures are Aussie dollars.

No mandatory Bluetooth!

BertBert @ 7/24/2002 12:47:01 PM #
I hope the one source in the article is wrong about EVERY palm device from now on having built-in Bluetooth. I have no bluetooth devices and won't for the forseeable future. I like Palm's products, but if Palm starts sticking bluetooth on everything it makes -- and makes the device more expensive, larger, and/or less power-efficient as a result -- then I won't be buying a Palm. There's no sense in paying for what you don't need and can't use.

I realize there are a lot of people out there who could use bluetooth and would like it very much to be built in, but there are at least as many others (it seems that have no use for it. It would be nice to have an option that doesn't include it.

You DON'T need to won other bluetooth device to use it
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:57:11 PM #
You can talk to other palm devices. In addition, bluetooth is only a few bucks and use little power.

By your logic, you would want to get rid of the infrared as well...

RE: No mandatory Bluetooth!
Token User @ 7/24/2002 12:59:40 PM #
The best explanation I have ever heard of "what is Bluetooth" was describing it as Wireless USB ... like USB, until there is a body of devices out there that support it out of the box, the supported peripherals will not appeal to many people.

I bought a cellphone with Bluetooth in anticipation of the technology becoming more mainstream. I bought a BLuetooth USB dongle (3Com)for my PC. I keep my phone book synced with my Outlook contacts just by walking within 10 feet of my phone. I would like to see the same thing happen with my PDA. Then you start getting the synergy of phone talking to PDA, PDA using phone as modem/gprs, PDA using phone headset as wireless headphones (or vice versa).

BUT for this type of thing to become pervasive, it needs to be installed in every device, just like a serial port. I would gladly give up IR for BT.

How about Palm put Bluetooth in every device, and just not tell you about it :)

RE: No mandatory Bluetooth!
Token User @ 7/24/2002 1:10:43 PM #
Quick addition : infosyc.no has an article on a new BT enabled GPS that is on its way. So, I can see a scenario of driving along with the GPS unit sitting on the dashboard of my car, tracking my location, passing the info back to my PDA which also has connection via BT to the GPRS phone sitting in my pocket which is reading live traffic updates from a web site. No cables involved. These devices become discrete components - useful by themselves, but infinately more powerful as a whole. I wish I knew the source, but someone described it the otherday as "Voltron Computing". Very cool.

RE: No mandatory Bluetooth!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:27:39 PM #
You can habe BT on the device but if you don't want to use it you don't have to and this will extend the battery life. BT adds very little weight to the pda, just look at how small the palm BT SD card is. It's also getting very cheap to add BT inside a device, something like $5 dollars per chip. For the potential connectivity it gives you, that's a very small price to pay.
RE: No mandatory Bluetooth!
TexSkater9140 @ 7/24/2002 3:56:56 PM #
hey Token, are you talking about the new iSync? that is basicly doing what you are talking about.

---------------------------------------
Computing in the palm of your hand; Now thats HANDe!
http://www.handecomputing.com
RE: No mandatory Bluetooth!
Token User @ 7/24/2002 4:20:00 PM #
iSync is centered around MacOS (Jaguar?) as a single "router" between devices. I sort of do that on my PC at home using MS Outlook as my "router" for common information. Currently, the only manual part of the process is doing the hotsync of my Visor. Unfortunately my MP3 player (eGo, not iPod :)) is a totally seperate beast.

I would also like to have my PDA in close proximity to my cellphone, and have them automagically exchange data too (I currently need to do that to a limited extent manually using IR).

BT is fantastic once it is setup.

Another cool product on the way is Daimler-Chryslers UConnect service - basically a BT handfree kit that links into your ar stereo, as well as providing OnStar type functionality. This opens up more possibilities - imagine playing an MP3 off your PDA via your car stereo, and having everything mute when you have an incoming call. When you leave the car, no cable to unplug, just slip everything into your pocket/briefcase/carrier bag/whatever, and go off.

Voltron Computing
Dan Harkless @ 8/6/2002 3:23:26 AM #
Token User, thanks for sharing the "Voltron Computing" metaphor. That's hilarious, and quite apropos.

Random thoughts.....

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 12:52:15 PM #
Has anyone noticed the "new" look of the Palm web site. Guess what....they have a new, blue palm logo in the top left corner that looks exactly like the one on the oslo.(maybe this is isn't new but it looks fresh)

While I agree with most people about the supposed thickness of the Oslo, I think we should wait and see the actual measurements. It does make sense that it would be thicker than the M515 due to the new sliding design. When closed at 3x4 inches that's pretty darn small.

Bottomline is: This will be a great pda. It has everything palm has promised including the possibility of surfing the net through a BT connection while having an expansion card or some other card in the SD slot. The Hires screen is perfect. I think the slide away hard graffiti area is also a very nice idea since this pda is designed for web surfing via BT and the graffitti is seldom needed when surfing the net.

RE: Random thoughts.....
Foo Fighter @ 7/24/2002 1:36:23 PM #
>"Has anyone noticed the "new" look of the Palm web site. Guess what....they have a new, blue palm logo in the top left corner that looks exactly like the one on the oslo."

There is no "new" look to Palm's web site. It has had this design for well over a year now. Same with the Palm logo.

RE: Random thoughts.....
cykalan @ 7/24/2002 2:02:39 PM #
well this guy must have not visitied palm.com for ages.

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!
RE: Random thoughts.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:27:38 PM #
This might sound a bit silly, but wouldn't it be neat to order the options you want in your handheld much like they way you can order options in a car? I know it would be bit expensive, but .....!
RE: Random thoughts.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:34:14 PM #
>"Has anyone noticed the "new" look of the Palm web site. Guess what....they have a new, blue palm logo in the top left corner that looks exactly like the one on the oslo."

>"There is no "new" look to Palm's web site. It has had this design for well over a year now. Same with the Palm logo."

The palm.com I just went to is not the same as the palm.com I went to a few days ago. It does have a new look, different links, and a different lay out. I go to this site nearly every day. It has changed.

RE: Random thoughts.....
Foo Fighter @ 7/24/2002 2:53:50 PM #
> "The palm.com I just went to is not the same as the palm.com I went to a few days ago. It does have a new look, different links, and a different lay out. I go to this site nearly every day. It has changed."

No, it hasn't changed. THIS IS NOT A NEW DESIGN. Palm's web site has had this "look" for at least a year.

RE: Random thoughts.....
kevdo @ 7/24/2002 3:01:15 PM #
>new, blue palm logo in the top left corner that
>looks exactly like the one on the oslo

What **is** new is the concept of using the full color rounded logo on the Palm device itself. For me, that was one of the nice features of the Oslo prototype.

Then again, I love Palm's logo and would love to look at it again and again on my device.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Random thoughts.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:08:57 PM #
> "The palm.com I just went to is not the same as the palm.com I went to a few days ago. It does have a new look, different links, and a different lay out. I go to this site nearly every day. It has changed."

> "No, it hasn't changed. THIS IS NOT A NEW DESIGN. Palm's web site has had this "look" for at least a year."

Ok dude, you and I must have different eyes. I was just at palm.com again and yes, the color scheme is the same but the lay out is different. The Explore Palm solutions on the right was not there before. The only way to get to things like the software page, the community page etc is to use that top bar. Before these last things each had a box that you could click on that was more in the center of the screen. (Whoops, there is a box for software but it does look a little different). Anyway, I don't know why we are debating this. The website looks a bit different to me than it did a few days ago. If it doesn't to you, so be it!

RE: Random thoughts.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:37:23 PM #
I think the round logo is further proof that Palm's mystery investor is *gasp* Pepsi!!!
RE: Random thoughts.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:13:39 PM #
I'd be more worried about the television network UPN... check http://www.upn.com/ and see that their new logo looks an awful lot like Palm's current logo. Maybe this fall we'll start seeing Palm devices on "Enteprise" and "Buffy the PocketPC Slayer".
RE: Random thoughts.....
I.M. Anonymous @ 8/6/2002 5:06:59 PM #
Silly Rabits, Palms are for intelligent people. If you naysayers would be smart enough to hit the refresh button on your browser, you'll notice that the Palm.com page loads up several different ways now, thus the confusion. Keep hitting refresh to get a look at all the different setups.

Some still unanswered questions

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:07:16 PM #
Let me start by saying Thank You to Ed for another great piece of information. Stuff like this keeps me glued to PIC for the latest....

1. Any ideas on the physical size of the screen and the manufacturer. Is this essentially the same screen as found on the sony T series? (is it smaller than the M515 screen cause that would be a shame)

2. Any ideas on the Weight of this thing. We know the approx. measurments but does it still come in under the magical 5oz mark?

3. Lastly, how about the battery. any ideas on the size/capacity of this battery. I assume it would have to be a very sizeable battery to support bluetooth operation and this would mean that the unit should last for a very long time if used without bluetooth activated.

Any comments are much appreciated.

RE: Some still unanswered questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 1:39:01 PM #
Here's a comment for you:

"This is all I was able to get. Hopefully more will be available later as the release date gets closer. -Ed"

Save the questions, dude, no one knows yet if Ed can't find out.

RE: Some still unanswered questions
Palm_Otaku @ 7/24/2002 2:37:05 PM #
To clarify: Bluetooth is relatively power efficient (especially compared to 802.11b).

Regardless, personally I'd like to see a higher capacity battery even if the design trade-off is slightly greater size and weight.

RE: Some still unanswered questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 4:49:18 PM #
Judging by the measurments ED gave I would guess around 2.7 x 2.5 inches would be close to the screen size.
RE: Some still unanswered questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:04:48 PM #
but there are ISP that uses 802.11b to connect wirelessly, there will never be an ISP that'll use bluetooth for their internet connection ...
RE: Some still unanswered questions
Token User @ 7/24/2002 5:36:13 PM #
but there are ISP that uses 802.11b to connect wirelessly, there will never be an ISP that'll use bluetooth for their internet connection ...

BFD. So put an 802.11b SDIO card in the expansion slot, or connect via Bluetooth to the cellphone in your pocket and use its GPRS (or CDMA EV-1x RTT) connection.

More Questions

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:30:36 PM #
We always have more questions than answers don't we. Anyway, I'm wondering if I can use my expandable keyboard the I use with my m125 and I know can be used with the m515. Won't upgrade if I can't. I need that keyboard to take notes in class.
Palm Inc Universal Connector
Palm_Otaku @ 7/24/2002 3:13:49 PM #
Because Oslo is using Palm Inc.'s Universal Connector it is a pretty safe bet that the Stowaway, err "Palm Portable Keyboard" will work just fine :-)

RE: More Questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 3:25:03 PM #
How do we know it is using the universal connector? Or did I miss something in the article. I really hope it does! Hate to throw out that $100 accessory.
RE: More Questions
Palm_Otaku @ 7/24/2002 3:46:18 PM #
One would assume it is because the photo shows it sitting in the standard cradle. Also Palm Inc. personnel have posted in various places (particularly some of the developer boards) that they'll be using the Universal Connector with their hardware for the "forseeable future".

RE: More Questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 4:48:19 PM #
I just wished everybody used the same connectors so you can just buy a PalmDevice accessories instead of separate ones for every device out there.

At the very least there should be a myConnector-to-some-universal_connector type adapter. Heck everybody should just use USB or Firewire/iLink and be done with it.

It's bad enough with cell phones, now we have to deal with this on every handheld device. Common people, buy a clue.

RE: More Questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:01:18 PM #
There is a Universal Connector that will connect between your pda, laptop, Keyboard, modem, headphones, pc, cell phone, gps, microwave, TV, Refrigerator, vending machine, ATM, and I can go on and on.

It's called BLUETOOTH. Once you have BT in all these devices, then you won't be worried about this issue of propeitary interfaces for each device. They can all communicate through a common langauge and common standards set by bluetooth.

This is the potential power of bluetooth that many people seem to mis-understand.

RE: More Questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:06:47 PM #
why not put USB port standard on all Palm devices, so everyone could share accessories ...
RE: More Questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 6:54:06 PM #
"why not put USB port standard on all Palm devices, so everyone could share accessories ..."

Naaahhh....that would make too much SENSE!!!

RE: More Questions
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:22:37 PM #
The thing that is holding up standardization of connection on Palm OS devices is Palm inc (the hardware co.) - they have the majority market share but they won't liscense the Universal Connector to other companies. Having said this, it would be nice of Sony, Handspring, and handera got together to push a unified connector amongst themselves. Or better yet - as someone already suggested - use an existing standard like USB / Firewire. It is pure greed that keeps PDA owners from benifitting from the kind of standardization that desktop PCs have enjoyed for more then a decade (PCI, AGP, COM, USB, etc).

New wireless device/smartphone

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 2:02:57 PM #
It's true about the smartphone this fall. Palm Canada has confirmed earlier this year that the i705 would not be available up here b/c a new wireless device was coming to Canada this fall. But I haven't heard any news on the sub $100 device.

Bluetooth will be great to sync with OSX.2 when it comes out next month. At least mac users will be ready to use the new Palms right out of the box with Bluetooth and iSync.

Just Noticed

Hotoru @ 7/24/2002 3:32:29 PM #
Not sure if has been mentioned before, but looking at the picture I noticed the Address icon now has a stick picture with lines beside it... Seems like the new address book may allow pictures (like sonys).

Also, calculator icon seems to have been dropped for a star (probably programmable to whatever you want or ? wireless).

Lastly, why does palm keep sticking with the menu icon. Seems like the logical step would be to just have all menus drop down with a tap at the top (like most do anyway) Change this button to something more ?useful

My 2 Cents,
Hotoru

RE: Just Noticed
abosco @ 7/24/2002 3:58:50 PM #
Look at the Palm i705, it already has the star icon in place of the calculator button and it is a favorite button, programmable to any application you want, the default being note pad.

And the menu icon will never go away because it is a very useful button. While you are playing a game, the menu bar is not usually up there, and getting rid of the menu button on the silkscreen would make the menu bar have to appear while playing games, taking up much needed space. IMHO, there is nothing more useful than that button.

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:o)][^]
[:(!][:o)][^]

RE: Just Noticed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 4:34:29 PM #
"Seems like the new address book may allow pictures (like sonys)."

That's actually a fairly useless feature of the clies. I don't really see the point of having pictures since I don't walk around with my camera to be able to take pictres of everyone I meet/add to my contact list. I think this feature may only be useful on the NR70V since it has a built in camera. Plus, downloading a few pictures to include next to people in the contact list eats up memory pretty fast.

RE: That's actually a fairly useless feature..." - Maybe 4 U
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 6:47:57 PM #
While I don't have the NR70/V anymore (traded it in for a T615) because the camera on the NR70/V is fairly poor resolution, but the image in the address book is a great idea - especially if you have lots of names and you don't place names and faces together well.

I've found in many situation, especially the college classes that I've taught that having a picture of one of my students next to their name has helped me remember who they were, and when seeing them in the future, being able to look through the pictures till I found their picture so I could remember their name. When you have 35+ students per class, 4 to 5 classes a semester, etc. one can see how this can add up over time.

Sure, this may be a useless feature for some - then don't use it, but for others, its really beneficial.

BTW, I use my Canon S100 to take group shots of my classes and then use Photoshop to pick out the individuals and their images, and as always, the students have the choice not to have their picture taken if they don't feel like it.

No, the picture option is a Great option for those who use it, and those who don't - you don't have to.

-PZ

Imposible to Switching programs when closed

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 4:42:45 PM #
How are people suposed to change from program to program when the device is closed? For that we have to use the home button and it will be covered.
RE: Imposible to Switching programs when closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 4:48:36 PM #
You can use the buttons on the front. That lets you open at least four proggies. I'm guessing you'll be able to open the address book and look up someone's name without exposing the graffiti area or pulling out the stylus. With bluetooth, you might even be able to get your mobile phone to dial the number for you.
RE: Imposible to Switching programs when closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:07:03 PM #
This is just a guess (although a reasonable one), but I think the d-pad is Palm's version of a jog dial. Access to the home or menu silk button would be unnecessary.
RE: Imposible to Switching programs when closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:16:13 PM #
LauncherX will answer this question by offering tabs at the top to switch between screens. I use launcher III now and never use the home button.
RE: Imposible to Switching programs when closed
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 5:21:36 PM #
>>LauncherX will answer this question by offering tabs at the top to switch between screens. I use launcher III now and never use the home button.


But the thing is (pun intended) how will you launch the launcher?

I mean to acces the launcher (default, launcher X or whatever) you first need to tap the home button.

Besides you won't be able to use many useful hacks that require the silkscreen when closed. I don't see a need for this closing botton it does not adds functionality.

RE: Imposible to Switching programs when closed
Kesh @ 7/24/2002 6:17:23 PM #
>I mean to acces the launcher (default, launcher X or whatever) you first need to tap the home button.

Or, you could *gasp* change one of the hardware buttons to run your launcher software! :)

RE: Imposible to Switching programs when closed
abosco @ 7/24/2002 7:32:16 PM #
"I don't see a need for this closing botton it does not adds functionality."

GRRRR.... NOW I'M REALLY GETTING MAD WHEN PEOPLE POST AND DON'T LIKE TO LISTEN!

Of course it doesn't add functionality, it adds a size advantage over other pdas. Did you even read the article??? It says that when closed, it is 4 inches long, half of an inch smaller than an m100. So do you still think this has no use? This feature now allows the device to be stored in your pants pocket without being uncomfortable, or even in your shirt pocket. So READ before you post. And for god's sake, have an open mind! Or does your clie do all the thinking for you?

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:o)][^]
[:(!][:o)][^]

Sad but PPCrap will now have thesize advantagee over OS5...

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 6:14:09 PM #
Please don't take this as a Palm OS bashing, I am a palm OS user and this is my opinion.


This is sad and ridiculous but for the firts time in history PPC will have a form factor advantage over Palm OS handhelds (if the Oslo is representative of OS 5 handhelds size).

One of the main reasons users buy palm OS instead of PPC is the size.

For common people (not geeks like us) when they see a handheld in the store they mainly decide because of the form factor (some even don't care about the OS). This will greatly affect sales for Palm, and increase sales for PPCrap.

I can now imagine M$ bashing on their site "Owr handhelds are smaller and thinner than Palm Pilots"


I just hope other Palm OS mannufacturers can make sub .5 inch OS 5 devices

RE: Sad but PPCrap will now have thesize advantagee over OS5...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 6:32:28 PM #
why is this such a problem. It's called CHOICE!! you like PPC then buy PPC. You like Palm then buy a palm. it's good to have many choices just like when buying a cell phone or any other electronic gizmo.
RE: Sad but PPCrap will now have thesize advantagee over OS5...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:00:26 PM #
>>why is this such a problem. It's called CHOICE!! you like PPC then buy PPC. You like Palm then buy a palm. >>it's good to have many choices just like when buying a cell phone or any other electronic gizmo.


Your message has nothing to do with what I siad. This is not choice. One of palm Os handhelds main selling point has been the small size. Thats why the V/m5xx form factor is the best selling. If OS 5 handhelds are as big as PPC there is not good for the Palm Os in general.

And if you talk about choice, what choice will have Palm users that want a slim small handheld?

Please read users comments completely beafore you start bashing, moron.

RE: Sad but PPCrap will now have thesize advantagee over OS5...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:14:23 PM #
IT IS CHOICE you pea-brained stooge!

Choice between palm, ppc,linux, etc.

Choice Between Palm inc, sony, HS, Handera, Blackberry, Sharp, Toshiba, Compaq, Casio, HP, etc.

You don't like the "form-factor" of this new palm then make a choice and buy a frickin Toshiba or whatever and quit yapping on a palm site about how much palm sucks.

I'll make you one bet though...I'll bet you palm's new line-up outsells all ppc pdas combined. I'm not even counting sony and HS. It's a safe bet since this is what's been happening ever since the ppc/win ce came out.

RE: Sad but PPCrap will now have thesize advantagee over OS5...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:33:36 PM #
>>IT IS CHOICE you pea-brained stooge!
>>Choice between palm, ppc,linux, etc.

People here are trying to post civilized opinions, stop bashing troll.

About choice: If OS 5 devices are this big, what are Palm V/Mxx form factor users suposed to do ha? Ditch Palm Os toghether with all the program they have purchased and buy a M$ PPC? This is not CHOICE.

You are definitely a Troll, people like you make this forum inmature and undfriendly.

RE: The Brick in your head!!!
abosco @ 7/24/2002 7:38:38 PM #
What are you talking about? This thing closes up to be 4 inches long. That means it will be the smallest pda on the market and it will have features comparable to the PocketPC, while being almost half the size!

•Bosco
FBI - Full Blooded Italian

[:(!][:o)][^]
[:(!][:o)][^]

RE: Is this the end of ultra thin handhelds?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 9:15:50 PM #
I don't think that just because one device is thick, doesn't mean all will be. There are many OS 3 Palms that are thick like the Palm 3 series. There will be another Palm that is a lot thinner than than this but with less features. The first OS 5 handheld that they will come out with is intended for us Geeks, since no1 else knows about OS 5 other than us. We are looking for the big features... I'm sure Palm will come out with something thinner, although i would prefer this in a thinner body! BTW Thinner means more expensive and this alone probably costs $400, and Palm doesn't want to go into the PPC range. I'm sure the people at Palm aren't a bunch of idiots and realize that people like thinner handhelds.
RE: Sad but PPCrap will now have thesize advantagee over OS5...
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 10:35:04 PM #
You guys aren't using common sense.

This thing is even smaller than a Treo 90, which is already more pocket-friendly than a freakin' Palm V.

You're too hung up on thickness.....and frankly...YOU'RE WRONG.

RE: Sad but ....some of you have no brains
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 5:02:39 AM #
Agree totallly... My nokia 8210 is quite thick.. more so than my Prism, but it's reduces length and width make it much more pocketable..

ALSO ED and others have repeated the statement that the measurements are naked eye estimates.. no one has taken a ruler to it.

I would happily trade off a few fractions of an inch in thickness for a shorter product with better battery life.

READ THE ARTICLE, READ THE CAVEATS.. THEN TYPE

This is a very good Palm device.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 6:19:29 PM #
The only main question left is :
How much it will cost?
If it is $400, it is a great PDA.
$500, a very good PDA.
$600, hmm, a decent PDA, I guess.

One important question would be the battery time.

Now, I wish it has more than 16M. Palm has been
using as little as possible memory in the past.
I consider this a big mistake. More memory makes
a huge difference in how much useful a PDA is.

Anyone who have used a 8M and 16M could tell you that.

PPC is fullyfuntionalnolimitation-ware

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 6:52:12 PM #
PPC is fullyfuntionalnolimitation-ware and OS5 is maybelikePPCbutdoutPamlwilldoitright-ware.

For this brick to be cool it better have an iPod like harddrive and audio capabilities hiding in it. This would be a GREAT mp3 jukebox and a brick PDA with a tiny screen.

Let's hope Sony comes out with their OS5 NR-70 soon.

RE: PPC is fullyfuntionalnolimitation-ware
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 8:58:32 AM #
This is all the reply you're getting!
RE: PPC is fullyfuntionalnolimitation-ware
james_sorenson @ 7/25/2002 11:57:33 AM #
Fully "funtional" and No Limitation? <snicker> Thanks for the chuckle, man, I needed that.

Wait...that WAS a joke, right?


-------
James Sorenson

Why have a cradle at all?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:02:01 PM #
I mean, why don't they just supply a USB dongle equipped with Bluetooth? I guess it would be about the same price as the cradle and wire. Of course you'd still need a power cable.

-Liam

RE: Why have a cradle at all?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 8:38:29 PM #
Because bluetooth is slow, compare to USB connection.
RE: Why have a cradle at all?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 3:07:29 PM #
"Because bluetooth is slow, compare to USB connection."

While you are within 30 meters of your computer bluetooth can be syncing with the computer. The process can be comletely automatic so that you do absolutely nothing other than walk within range of your pc and the whole thing happens in the background. It's that simple. So what if it's slower than USB, you can sync while you are using the pda or the computer or both.

BT is the eventual USB killer because of the freedom from wires. Unless someone comes up with a wireless technology that's both fast like 802.11b and energy efficient like BT.

Sony

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:56:28 PM #
Is there any news about the Sony device? This one looks very cool, but i was hoping for virtual graphiti... The thickness shouldn't matter to ppl as long as it doesn't weigh a lot and is small.
RE: Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 7:59:48 PM #
I guess Sony is better at keeping secrets, since I've never seen sony leaking pictures of their stuff before it's announced like palm always do.
Bluetooth 1.2 (2-3Mpbs) and 2.0 (+10Mpbs) versions coming
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 4:45:39 AM #
Behind the scenes they are working on Bluetooth 1.2 (2-3Mpbs) and 2.0 (+10Mpbs) versions which are both backward compatible with the 1.1 version. A few more functions are to be provided in the 1.2 specification, which are: speeding up of the connection establishment between equipment, QOS management as flow control, coping with the transfer of streaming data, adaptive frequency hopping to decrease mutual interruption with IEEE802.11b, connection between piconets (scatter net), roaming between piconets, and others.
http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/news/196411
The (Bluetooth) 2.0 spec is expected to support gross rates of 4, 8 and 12 Mbits per second
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020611S0033


This is just plain ugly!

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:35:20 PM #
period
RE: This is just plain ugly!
McTrinsic @ 7/25/2002 10:17:31 AM #
I am sad to have to agree here. I have been using an old Palm IIIx ever since it was sold for the
first time. I have been admiring the elegant design of the V/Vx/M5xx ever since since then, too.
But I never got to buy one, for two reasons. First, they did not really offer that much of
improvement to spend the money which I am really short of. The Palm IIIx meets all my (basic)
requirements. I keep track of appointments, yearly dates like families' birthdates etc., and
addresses. Every now and then I make a note on the Plam, though usually I write on (*gasp*!)
paper - it's simply faster, you can write freely, add comments anywhere on the sheet and so
on and so on. So for my needs any advancements Palm and PDAs in general have made were not
really useful for a user like me. And in the company I work I am already the power-user, having
added an alternative Addressbook (ActionNames), edited the ROM, and installed a few goodies
like TealGlance (highly recommended, btw) or programs like BrainForest. All with a Palm IIIx
(though updated to OS 4.1).

Now I have been waiting for a leap. Not necessarily a quantum leap, but a leap. I hate SONY, I
wanted a Palm. I have been saving some money for a new device. I was waiting for an *ELEGANT*
unit. Yes, I too wanted, somewhere deep inside, something to put on the desk in meetings to
attract looks: "Oh, *that* ... yes, it's my new Palm... not the worst, isn't it"... *impish grin*.
I am talking about magnesium covers here. A designer unit.

And I wanted additional functionality. I wanted sound - MP3 to be specific. BLUETOOTH.
Something essentially more to make a difference. And a significant greater speed - not the factor
2. 200MHz and more compared to my 33Mhz-clocked old device.

And yes, I would have wanted replacable AAA batteries. To put rechargables into. I'm serious
here. With my battery drain - try to replace a *dead* built-in rechargable battery. Thats what
I love about my Palm IIIx - it already has outlived the device of a friend of mine.

With whats coming through so far, I would say I have to switch to SONY, as much as I
despise them. I am eager to see an elegant, thin PDA. Thickness does matter. The Palm V form
factor is close to perfect (for me at least).

To me, it seems as if this thing has been designed by engineers. The specs are ok. But to
introduce a new feature (sliding bottom) isn't apalling to everyone. The double resolution you can
achieve by a virtual graffiti (320x480) compared to a PPC (320 x 240). would have been great.

I know that with BT, hires and a microphone jack incl. according hardware AND a really *good*
battery life this thing need to be somewhat bigger.

But I expected the look & feel of a Palm V.


McTrinsic

P.S.: The design study they posted not too long ago at pdabuzz.com would have done, if not too
thick. But this ugly green? *sigh*

And so is your post!
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 12:36:01 PM #
period

What I would like from an OS5 device

drw @ 7/25/2002 12:44:29 AM #
No one will probably read this 168th post (maybe 169th if I don't type fast), but anyway....

My slowest app is freeware Handyshopper 2.0 I have about 300 items spread among about 6 stores with seperate sorts for [all] vs [need]. When I make the order, it's sorted one way, then when I go to Sams Club, it's sorted another way so in neither place do I have to walk back and forth.

Everytime I switch stores, switch from [all] to [need], etc I see a [ Sorting... ] popup box for about 3 seconds. I would like this to be instant on an OS5 device.

Second request. We're never going to see a MSFT Media Player for any PalmOS, however, what about RealONE or Quicktime for future PalmOS-5 G-2.5 smartphones to pickup streaming content from the internet?

---
David

RE: What I would like from an OS5 device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:53:27 AM #
I am reading your post.
Probably a lot more others are reading too.

You have a freeware. So you would not expect it fast
, I guess.

Real just said open source their player, I think.
So somebody probably will make it run on Palms.

RE: What I would like from an OS5 device
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 1:21:05 PM #
If half of the posts are not being erased too of course.

It is called Fargo Not Oslo

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:21:35 AM #
Oslo is internal fack name given so people
received product early would not ruin the party.
Oslo was given because they are test marketing
with cell phone vendors so they came up
with this fack name.

The real Name is Fargo,

2nd this product will be sold along a cell phone
as a package deal you get a cell phone
with blue tooth and a fargo with blue tooth
and two communicate.

yes 320 * 320 res.

Only 16mb memory OS 5 has issue with
supporting anything more......

Microphone yes, MP3 no....

Over priced Yes $ 395

with a Arm Processor

RE: It is called Fargo Not Oslo
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:48:12 AM #
$395?

I assume you are kidding.
This is under priced if it is true,
not over priced.


RE: It is called Fargo Not Oslo
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:58:11 AM #
If Palm doesn't sell this seperately, they
have brain problem.

It is a very good Palm on its own.

RE: It is called Fargo Not Oslo
Palm_Otaku @ 7/25/2002 4:00:16 AM #
Interesting.

Which phone? :)

RE: It is called Fargo Not Oslo
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 4:04:55 AM #
>>Only 16mb memory OS 5 has issue with
supporting anything more......

Good joke but you gave yourself away with this.

RE: It is called Fargo Not Oslo
Foo Fighter @ 7/25/2002 8:44:23 AM #
Stop spreading lies. Your information is about as believable as Bill Gates and Scott McNealy becoming golf buddies.

No
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 11:24:47 AM #
It runs on 1 AAA battry which lasts 47 hours of constant use, is a wap phone, microwave, and stun gun in one!
RE: It is called Fargo Not Oslo
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 11:34:48 PM #
Let me guess, you work for Palm right? GO AWAY TROLL!

Oslo = new Palm AND Apple PDA ?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:22:42 AM #
Hi,

I'm playing around with my old Newton MP120 and i remarked 3 things to be discussed:
- Apple used the same star-symbol like Palm (beaming to another device)
- the logo on the bottom of the Newton is the same kind of the logo on the Oslo. Apple can simply replace the logo.
- Apple uses the D-pad on the iPod to navigate.
- Apple needs an new PDA
- Apple is forcing BT

Thanks

RE: Oslo = new Palm AND Apple PDA ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:41:48 AM #
they are working on a completely new pda
will be released end of year.
RE: Oslo = new Palm AND Apple PDA ?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:52:44 AM #
Star symbol on Newton = wait, or something's being done here click to have more info, not necessary beaming.

Apple won't do cheap rebrand like this, they are not IBM.

iPod's navigation wheel is called scroll wheel, it's not a direction pad, if you press on it, nothing will happen.

Apple doesnt need a PDA, steve said PDA is going to be replaced by phone, I can't start to imagine after he saying this Apple'll release a PDA

Apple is pushing (not forcing) Bluetooth, at the same time apple is pushing alot of stuff, e.g. 802.11, Firewire, USB... btw: they don't even have one computer with builtin bluetooth, their bluetooth adaptor are not quite shipping yet.

Fugly and with a smaller screen?

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 10:17:38 AM #
I have a hard time believing this is the real deal. Looks like a bad photoshop deal.
RE: Fugly and with a smaller screen?
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 11:11:57 AM #
Multiple sources confirmed this is the real thing...

XZAVER @ ClieSource.com Commenting on a Few Things.

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 2:33:45 PM #
Excellent Summary Ed. ! :o)


Please Keep The news coming !
And I will keep commenting of coarse.


Screen:

Well lets hope that Palm Does even better than 320 and shocks us with 480!

BlueTooth:

One word.

WHY ....................................! !

Why must we have built in bluetooth.
Can we please keep things as Modular as possible ?


Not keeping things modular does II things , both of which I think are bad. !


- Drives the cost of the unit up !
- Makes the unit bigger !
( I guess We know were our beloved style went to )

I think What we should be continuing to do is improving Infra-Red
To the point were we have it down to a science!


Lets take A look at the probable rumored Specifications and what we know shall we ?


...::::THE NEW::::...

- Probable Code Name OSLO - Could Stand for.....

A.) A City in Norway ?
B.) Palm Operating system 5.00 in Romaine Numerals ?

..........My guess would be the later.


- D-PAD.


- PULL OUT KEYPAD.
- BUILD IN BlueTooth Technology

BLAH!
II Things that should be Modular in a consumer market !!

...::::THE OLD::::...

- Palm OS 5.00
==- 150MHZ OR + --> NEW ARM Based Processor

- HI-RES (320*320)
- 16 MBs or +more+ of RAM.


...::::THE UGLY::::...

Did Palm's design team get replaced by colorblind bats ?


< <<<< - >-> Sigh <-< - >>>> >

After taking one look at this thing I really really really hope this rumor is false.

So all of that brings us the questions......

- IS this new ARM based Processor Optimized for Palm OS Software,Commands, And Architecture in itself ??

- IS the Operating System upgradable ( Flash ROM ) ?

~~


[-Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 6:19:29 PM-]


[--This is a very good Palm device.--]
[--- The only main question left is :
How much it will cost?
If it is $400, it is a great PDA.
$500, a very good PDA.
$600, hmm, a decent PDA, I guess. ---]

What were you smoking when you wrote this !? ...??

500 OR 600$ For a Palm PDA ?

I don't think there has been a 600$ Palm PDA
(without wireless capability of coarse ) ever in history.


I and many others would only buy this Item if it were less than 200$ USD and had ___NO!___ built in bluetooth !


[--One important question would be the battery time.--]


I must agree with you on this statement.

This is one area that needs a great improvement in.

Look at were the proprietary companies have taken us in this field.
Instead of improving the field of power consumption they are making it worse.
Throwing new standards around like 5 guys playing handball. >:-| GRRRR....


There needs to be some kind of set standard !

People within the cooperate generation want - S.T.A.B.I.L.L.I.T.Y!
( OM I won't go there ;) )

We are LAY-Zzzzzzzz.
We don't want to need to worry about things like.
.....Well did I charge my Palm This morning ?


We crave it , It's what we want.
What good is a 400$ PDA that looks good but won't turn on when we need it the most ??


I hope they seriously consider making a separate entity to go along with there next series of PDA with/in AAA's or AA's battery for factor.

~~


[---This is just plain ugly!
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 7/24/2002 11:35:20 PM

period---]


It is bland I agree.
However .....

If -

- The price is right $$$$
- Includes all of the features we want.

Would You Buy It ??


~~


[---RE: It is called Fargo Not Oslo
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:48:12 AM

$395?

I assume you are kidding.
This is under priced if it is true,
not over priced.---]

How so ??

400$?
For all of the features I can get from a Clie with a few features I can't from a Palm is under priced ?

Sorry maybe i missed something ?

~~


[---Oslo = new Palm AND Apple PDA ?
Posted by: I.M. Anonymous @ 7/25/2002 2:22:42 AM


Apple does have plans to make a new PDA coming in the near future.

I also heard from an undisclosed source that it will have Square form factor ?

Could this be a Joint venture ? Hrmmm.......


....::::Conclusion::::....


Palm ,

Start worring about power consumption. !!
And
Stop hogging all the cool designs for yourselves !!

OS5 & Palm Tidbits

I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 6:46:50 PM #
I can't reveal my soources, but I have folks in well-placed areas that tell me the crop of new Palm OS5 devices coming out this Christmas will NOT have MP3 capabilities turned on. Seems someone in Palm is too cheap to pay for this feature.

I have also seen a prototype of a low-end Palm OS5 device and it does not have any virtual graffiti. And from what I saw, the only real benefit will be the processor speed. Other than that Sony Clies are and will have more features than the new Palms.


RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
useybird @ 7/26/2002 8:05:51 PM #
How can we believe you? Usually rumors on this site have pictures, details and well known sources. For all we know you could just be making this up.

----------------------------------------

What do you call it when you kill a chick pea? Hummus-ide!
Just one of many unfunny jokes from my cerebellum to your screen!

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 8:35:32 PM #
I refuse to believe in trolls, and this rumor comes from a troll. Back under the bridge with you.
RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
abosco @ 7/26/2002 9:12:56 PM #
He's making this up. Look at this comment:

"I have also seen a prototype of a low-end Palm OS5 device and it does not have any virtual graffiti. And from what I saw, the only real benefit will be the processor speed."

Huh? The $100 Palm low-end unit will not have a speed difference. It is possible that it could run OS 5.0, but it will be probably 33 mhz, because anything more would be way too expensive to incorporate in a $100 pda. This is a bare-bones model that will be aimed to the high school/college student who wants to keep his life organized. At that price, it will be tied for the cheapest Palm OS unit, ever when it first came out. The other being the m100 which I believe was also $99.99 but it might have been $149.99. I can't remember. Anyway, why don't you give us a name or a screen name that we can remember you by? You said you have contacts at well placed areas, not that you ARE a contact, so what is the danger in having a name for yourself? The only reason for not having a name would be that you are lying, but you wouldn't lie to us........ ;)

•Bosco

FBI - Full Blooded Italian

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 9:35:30 PM #
The low-end version will have an ~150 mHz ARM-processor. I think the high-end will hit 266 mHz.

I realize all of this is hard to believe, but I see all the folks waiting for OS5 and I think they will be disappointed.

I just wanted to pass some information along with jeopardizing myself. All information is on an NDA, but I felt I did pass any specific technical data.

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
abosco @ 7/26/2002 9:49:14 PM #
LOL! 150 mhz! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA RIIIIIGHT! The Oslo is supposed to have 175 mhz, and that is the high end model Palm talked about! The only other thing that will be released besides the $100 low-end unit is the smartphone they mentioned. And I don't think the smartphone will beat out the high-end model in mhz. 266 mhz is such baloney, ARM processors for Palm can currently go up to 200 mhz, with more in the not so distant future (6 months to 1 year).

Imagine! A low end unit that beats out the nr70v in speed by 2.5 times, and it costs 6 times less! Now I KNOW you are lying. You had a good run though... but if you continue to push this, at least identify yourself with a username. Make it something like "phoneybaloneyliar666" or similar. Then everybody will know it is you.

•Bosco

FBI - Full Blooded Italian

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/26/2002 11:11:06 PM #
i've test the os 5 machine too. something this guy mentioned is true, for example no built-in mp3 playing function.

as the processor is strong enough to handle mp3 playback, and the machine itself already have a earphone jack, the only thing which is in doubt is a mp3 playing software. As i know, there is already 2 - 3 company writing such software (some company is working on a software more than mp3 play back).

users have to pay for mp3 function of their new os 5 palms....

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
big_raji @ 7/27/2002 2:14:31 AM #
----- Start Quote -----
LOL! 150 mhz! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA RIIIIIGHT! The Oslo is supposed to have 175 mhz, and that is the high end model Palm talked about! The only other thing that will be released besides the $100 low-end unit is the smartphone they mentioned. And I don't think the smartphone will beat out the high-end model in mhz. 266 mhz is such baloney, ARM processors for Palm can currently go up to 200 mhz, with more in the not so distant future (6 months to 1 year).
----- End Quote -----

Ummm, from what I remember, the LOWEST end ARM cpu will be 150mhz. Why are you laughing?

I think it's very easy to believe that Palm would release their next PDA's without MP3 capability, as well as without headphone jacks.

They're not aiming for that market.

If someone comes out with their own MP3 software, great. It'll have to play out of the built-in speaker though.


---
For all the people that have suffered through my "What's Wrong With This Picture" Signature:
http://www.americanheart.org

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/27/2002 4:15:18 AM #
The old slow processors they showed at PalmSource in the labs were 70 MHz. All the technology partners are certifying much faster ARM cores. And a 70 MHz ARM with a decent cache is many times faster than a 66 MHz 68000 (check the clock cycles per instruction in the hardware manuals).

I think all it takes is (publically available) software to use a 100 MHz ARM to decode mp3 audio in realtime, so the only way they could not support mp3 audio playback is to leave off a decent D/A or an audio jack.

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/27/2002 4:17:41 AM #
if you've been to palmsource you'll know it.... oslo has built in bluetooth, earphone jack and microphone.

and the CPU provided by TI can play mp3, avi, without any problem, the point is, whether there is any software company is going to write a software for it.

RE: OS5 & Palm Tidbits:
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/27/2002 5:11:21 AM #
if the $100 (£70) one is that good and comes to the uk i'll get one, but i doubt that it will be that good, even OS 5.

grafitti area

PIC mobile user @ 7/27/2002 11:06:36 PM #
Its still the grafitti area in OS 5?
Why dont do it virtual?

stop complaining

PIC mobile user @ 7/31/2002 12:07:58 AM #
people do nothing but complain about speed or what a device can do, and its quite retarded. going from 33Mhz to 175Mhz is insane, and is obviously going to be faster then what we have now.. just accept the fact that complaning gets YOU nowhere, and gives people like me headaches. i dont dream of a white christmas, or a new mercedes in my driveway just for me... I dream of the day that a new handheld comes out and no one complains.... now that would be something to write home about

release date

I.M. Anonymous @ 8/10/2002 11:22:21 AM #
I work for palm in one of their call centers. They are leaving here on August 30th for another call center. So I'm guessing that the new palm will be released at that time. They have not even told us about it and why would they. I bet they have already trained their new call center on it. By the way we are just a contracted call center so my loyalty to palm is zero, especially after they screwed us, but they have been doing that since they stared making palms. They are so behind it is sad.
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