Comments on: Rumor: Details on Upcoming Sony Handheld (Updated)

Hans.

In any case as usual sony inovates and everybody else will attempt to follow if they are smart at all. I understand a Palm devotees love of simplicity sony is constantly pushing the envelope and once most users see wat sony is offering compared to how little palm offers they very well may switch. Unfortunatly personal sales dont matter nearly as much as corporate sales and palm has that arena pretty well locked up, so i dont see them going aout of business netime soon. hopefully they can start makin cooler devices though

-Bobby Digital
::End Rant

Thanks Sony, thanks palm, thanks Handera, thanks Handspring, give me more options! Long live choices. Long live PalmInfoCenter!

nategall says "blah!"

They won't go usurping their own market before the device hits the streets, and this is exactly why they don't allow memory cards to be used in the devices. You can bet they did the same with CF cameras and Bluetooth devices, since Sony also makes those in MemoryStick versions. Expect to see more "orhpaning" of CF/SD/MMC devices as Sony comes out with their own versions.

I think Sony has ravaged the Zen of Palm and left it for dead.

Sony screwed up too many times while designing their earlier PDAs, and they've learned to stay away from the PDA market, and focus on the "gadget" market (mp3 player, walkman, "flash movies").

When they released the PEG-S300, the first "true" USB device to hit the market (Handspring was and is still serial) they mangled the Handspring HotSync protocol and made it incompatible with Palm's HotSync version (recall "USB PDA Switcher" that was required?) We know this because we write Linux tools that work with Palm devices (without any help or documentation, I might add)

They fixed that by the time their second device came around, and had a couple of good, working USB devices, then came out with another version which claimed to have the same product_id in the USB media descriptor as one of their previous devices, but used a different USB port internally, so you couldn't tell which protocol was needed for which device (programatically, some used USB0, some used USB1)

Then they release yet another couple of versions, and then one device appears claiming to have 3 USB ports instead of the normal 2 (yes, all USB palm devices have two USB ports).

And I'll bet when this OS5 device comes out, it'll be nice and shiny, light, fast, colored, and come complete with a completely different incompatible USB connector type, broken protocol, and riddled with DRM components everywhere, locking you into Sony-only solutions.

No thanks, not for me.

I don't either. Hope there will be a $500 version without the camera and a $600 one with it. Wish I knew how well the NR70 is selling compared to the NR70V. If the one with a camera is way outselling the one without, there may only be a camera one.

My hats are off to Sony, love 'em or hate 'em - they know how to push the envelope!

My hats are off to Sony, love 'em or hate 'em - they know how to push the envelope!

Seems like I´m not the only one who just want´s

* T626c form factor
* Virtual Graffiti (HighRes+)
* Build in Bluetooth
* Up n´ down key like the NR70 or Palm M515
* Voice Recorder (?)
* Anhanced Sound (like T-Series)

Is that really too much to ask for???

Come on, you can do it. And a lot of people are looking forward to it.

Phil

Parrot had the privilege of being invited by Ferrari at their factory to install their CK3000 Bluetooth car kit for Jean Todt, Team Principal of the Ferrari F1 Team.

Jean Todt has lately set up his new highly mobile office. A Ferrari Maranello 575 that was fitted with additional high-performance equipment: Harman Becker navigation system, Bose Audio system, and a Parrot CK3000 Bluetooth car kit.

The CK3000 allows Jean Todt to place his calls by pressing one button and speaking any of his phonebook's names. Incoming calls are accepted pressing on a second button.

During calls, the audio system is automatically turned off, and the conversation is routed to the speakers.

The phone stays inside the pocket all the while: the pairing and exchanges between the phone and the car kit is fully wireless using Bluetooth.

Parrot CK3000 installation at Ferrari.

Installation was carried out at the factory. The Bluetooth car kit only requires connecting the CK3000 unit to 12V supply, to the mike, and to the place-call and hang-up buttons. The mute cable intercepts the audio wiring between the radio and the loudspeakers.

http://www.say-parrot.com/parrot/uk/ck3000_eng.htm

It is 4x the speed because it's a "wider" port to send the serial protocol over. Look closely at the underlying protocol, it's still serial, even if it goes over a connector that connects through a USB hardware device.

If you're claiming that's a "jerry-rigged serial port" rather than a USB one (with serial adapters built into serial cradles), what can you show to back that up?

Again, look at the protocol behind it. It's serial. Look at the drivers which support it, also serial. This is not a USB protocol, and there is not a single PalmOS© PDA in existance that uses USB natively. They're all serial, transmitting their communications over a USB hardware port.

Not that I'm complaining, it makes it easy to interface with external, third-party serial devices with a small change in pinouts on the connector type.

I've been wondering this for a while. Why do so many device makers still make serial connections if USB is so easy to port? I guess another question is why isn't there a native USB driver for hotsyncing. Wouldn't that greatly speed things up with little effort on Palm's part?

Period.

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

Um, what? Stability and ease of use of PPC? Sorry, even in PPC 2002 the PocketPC is generations behind the Palm III in terms of end-user usability. It leads in wiz-bang features, perhaps, but the interface is still bass-ackwards. As for stability, I've seen more MS salesment reset PPCs to fix crashes than anyone else. :-)

What Sony is gunning for is the *features* of a PPC with the stability and ease of use (I hope!) of Palm OS.

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This post is ROT26 encrypted. Reading it is a violation of the DMCA

The sounds like a cool PDA but it is going to be about twice the size of the Oslo and cost $150 -- $200 more. Both will appeal to different people and both will sell well.

I'm starting to think Sony becoming a licensee was one of the worst things to happen to the PalmOS community. Sure they bring increased market share, but is that a desirable chunk of the market?

Sort of like the average AOL user. How many support staffers groan when they see them coming...

Perhaps parts of the market don't *have* to be brought into the fold...

That was probably one of the most arrogant, elitist statements I ever read here at PIC. Hey "know it all" - you're not half as smart as you think you are.

so you must be one of those smart palm Users that didn't buy a Clie, are you assuming all ppl who bought the Clie are like morons or something ??

You must be a Machead.
You sound like Steve Jobs who commenced to destroy all of the cloners.

I'm all for Sony. It keeps Palm honest by showing the company what you can do with the technology. And it's a win for the consumer because it gives us choice, but it sounds like you're in the zone of Jobs' reality distortion field and alternative lifestyle. You don't believe in choice. You only believe in mandated products with incremental changes at maximum premium prices.

Thank the gods for Sony. Keep it up Sony!!!

"You only believe in mandated products with incremental changes at maximum premium prices."

Maximum premuim prices? Umm, excuse me but what is the most expensive Palm OS unit ever? The NR70v which is made by who? SONY!

I understand that Sony does a good job at keeping their prices down in the mid range and low end markets but in the high range, they are pricier than a PPC. Don't you think $600 is a bit much? This rumored new model will likely cost more than that too.

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Well FINE! Be that way!
Excuse me while I go pout and cry in the corner...

I let the statistical sampling posting here speak for themselves...

So no, not all. Just apparently a wide cross-section of those in this neighborhood of the online community. One can only *hope* it's not a representative sample.

Enough with the Yahoo, kiddy'up Sony fluff. Let each product stand on it's own merits without artificial fluffing and drive-by competition smearing.

The Oslo has a better edge on wireless. They incorporated bluetooth and they still have an sd slot and the universal connector to connect to a modem which already exists because of the UC. Palm is starting to make some smarter moves while Sony is becoming a little more iffy. Wireless is becoming a major part in buying a handheld, and those pdas that have to use extra cards and slots and cables are at a disadvantage.

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Well FINE! Be that way!
Excuse me while I go pout and cry in the corner...

Today I can use 802.11b at home, the office, in public hotspots such as airports, hotels, cafes, and grassroots public networks. Even the telcos and ISP's have been making noises in the media about teaming up to supplement 3G data with 802.11b coverage. For that sort of connectivity (better than CDPD, cellular circuit switched data, ricochet or whatever), a slot to accept 802.11b today and 802.11[x,y, or z] tomorrow, seems more helpful.

And there's nothing special about the UC and wireless modems. Any PalmOS device can currently connect to a cellphone or similar device for wireless data via a cable.

I doubt that the next Clie will have CF built-in, primarily because it takes up too much room, but partly for another reason.

Imagine for a moment that Sony's next high-end device does have dual slots - BOTH of them Memory Stick (MS). Or more likely, one regular MS and one of the miniature "Duo" MS memory cards.

Users could then buy the Sony InfoStick (MS Bluetooth), the MS camera, MS GPS, etc. to upgrade their devices Hmmm.

I *hope* that isn't the direction they're going, and that the new high-end Clie will integrate Bt, but I can see how the "Dual-stick" business model might be appealing to Sony (and to any other company considering making a Memory Stick peripheral).

For WiFi, Sony might release the existing CF-sleds (available in Japan) and use OS5's built-in 802.11b support. Because the sled has an integrated auxilliary battery, it would be a practical (but expensive?) upgrade for those who want it.

The special thing about the UC is that it is being used by all of the recent Palm pdas, making all peripherals for that connector work with all of those Palms. That is a great idea, which they are using to their advantage, as Sony is a bit slow on the accessories for the t series connector. That's one area where Palm has a considerable lead and they are exploiting it... good for them.

And what if you don't have a cell phone with wireless internet capabilities? What if you don't have a cable to hook it up? The wireless modem for the UC solves that. There is even a bluetooth sled available for it if you don't want to use the sd slot on the m500 series.

___________________
I'm the ears of PIC

It's certainly more what I would expect of them. If you make a device that accepts only your own media, how can you improve on that more than making a device that accepts *two* of your own media.

The more memory stick sales the merrier, or so the jingle will go.

Palm is a licensee just like the rest. With the appropriate hotsync cable and a null modem adaptor, you can connect to *any* modem or data enabled cellular handset.

The Universal connector is universal only to Palm Inc., and even then not universally. Thus far, just marketing spin. Like their dual-expansion ditty.

Where else can you find a cheap color handheld with memory expansion? Nowhere but palm. The M130 is the cheapest color handheld that is still made. Show me a cheaper color handheld with SD expansion and we'll talk.

BTW The HandEra uses Palm III accessories. And while Sony has it's memory stick and Japan-only accesories, Palm has the biggest range of First- and Third-party accessories available.

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As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

I am a Palm zealot, but I understand the limitations to my zeal. I see no reason to get the m130 over the t615 except for the fact that you can't scrape up an extra $50 any possible way.

And the clie line is very durable, too.

_______________________________________
So how's that nice girlfriend of yours?
Oh she got hit by a car, she's dead.

I wish more Palm OS licencees would use CF but I don't think this plan from Sony (IF it is a real) is very good. I like the HandEra way of having two fully functional slots. If that's too much, use CF instead of SD. I know Sony would never give up its Memory Sticks, though.

Sony and their arrogance. If the CF slot was not limited to I/O think of the greater appeal of this device. The whole concept of having a CF slot and then not being able to view photos from my digicam's CF card is just absurd. What is Sony thinking? The bottom line on what Sony is telling you is unless you have a CF non-memory peripheral installed all the time, your PDA is twice as thick as it would have to be due to the extra worthless piece of crap CF slot.

How many people won't buy this device just for this one fact? Stupid.

My intent when I made my original post was not to dwell on the legal implications of this (only that it would not go over well with consumers), but...

Sony would have to do much, much more than just put "Works only for non-memory Compact Flash cards" on the packaging. Most people don't even see the packaging until after they buy a PDA. 99.999% of CF card use is for memory cards, 99.9% of people probably don't even know CF is for anything but memory cards, and every other PDA device out there with CF supports CF memory cards. There is no way Sony could sell such a device without putting a "* non-memory cards only" notation on every mention of Compact Flash in every ad and brochure.

WiFi, extra memory, and a Keyboard what a concept. :-)

This device will have me considering an update to my Prism.

Sony is thinking "let's sell more memory stick and cover our R&D cost". Sounds very logical, but whether the market accepts it is another story.

Let's see:
Sony releases a device with built-in camera, mp3 player, keyboard, built-in bluetooth & 802.11b.

PIC posters protest, "I don't need camera, keyborad, mp3 player, bluetooth, and 802.11b, just give me a simple PDA with a long battery life".

Sony releases a device without anything thing built-in, but a non-I/O CF-slot to let user plug in whatever they want.

PIC posters protest, "why wireless is not built-in? Why do I need to spend extra $$ to buy a keyboard, camera, and mp3 player? They used up my only expansion slot!"

You got the idea.

It's about choice, if you don't like it, don't buy it!

PIC news: "Next Sony rumored to include kitchen sink."
First comment: "Who the he** needs a kithcen sink?"
Second comment: "A kitchen sink is nowhere near deep enough. I need a sink like they have in a janitor's closet."
Third comment: "Why must Sony insist on those damn proprietary sinks instead of using open-source toilets?"
Fourth comment: "Too little, too late. The Newton had a kitchen sink years ago."
Fifth comment: "Let's hope they fix the knobs this time, 'cause the bathroom sink was HORRIBLE."
Sixth comment: "Once again Sony gives its users the finger by making the last model, which only included a simple faucet, obsolete."

There's no pleasing some people. Honestly, reading some of this crap makes me want to go back to a Pilot 1000 and just convince myself there's nothing newer.

-Myk-

To Myk: They make a Springboard adapter for CF cards. Not sure if it supports I/O, though.

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As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

-myk-

?? Obviously never seen a 1GB Microdrive used on a 16.5Mhz TrgPro with CardPro.

And AFAIK there's been some *very* impressive graphics and video done with 3rd party software on the NR70. With results and FR rivaling 206Mhz PocketPC's.

I'm not saying that ARM isn't welcome, but now that ARM is here, let's not pretend Dragonball doesn't have it's place, and hasn't fought the good fight.

Sure there's things you can't really do on 33/66Mhz Dragonball's but the two you mentioned aren't at the top of the list.

Very good point, the Dragonball has carried us a long way. Let's not be so quick to slam what brought us here.

You are correct. I have never seen this. Nobody I know uses this kind of Frankenstein P.O.S. I'm sure it does amazing hi-res graphics, though.

And there we have our all-american Clie user. Don't 'cha luv 'em.

Note to sony R&D: Make better buttons. The camera was asinine considering you can't even get good button placement.

Read the post. He's talking about a TRG Pro, which works very well with it and doesn't drain the battery.

As for the initial post, y'know, I can watch videos on Kinoma, in landscape, on my NR70 and they look WAY better than anything PPC's put on the ARM processor with Media Player. It's amazing, too, because the sound actually MATCHES the video, which is something PPC's don't appear to do well.

Just remember, processor speed has diminishing returns. Remember when Handspring (yes, Handspring) introduced 33mhz? It's not actually twice as fast as 16--they even admitted it was only about 50% faster. 206mhz won't be as much faster than 66mhz as it should appear, 400mhz isn't that much faster than 206 (just ask anyone who was sucker enough to buy the latest iPaq), and so on.

Great. What's the present, though? I use a PDA for about 12 to 18 months before I upgrade. I need the present. What, exactly, would the average user use wireless on their PDA for today?

It would be great if I could accept all vCards while networking and then pick and choose the next day which ones I want to keep.

Oh and that thing I do about twice a day call syncing. It would be nice to get rid of extra cables.

So, this is the present and I want it now.

You really want to surf from a 3.5" screen? Really? Isn't your PC at least as close as your bluetooth terminal? Caller ID - hmm, okay, sure, I guess. But how valuable is that? And I'm not sure this is a phone unit here.

"It would be great if I could accept all vCards while networking and then pick and choose the next day which ones I want to keep."

Do you get a lot of "vCards while networking?" I don't. In fact, I've never actually figured out what vCards are. (Remember, the poster was asking what ORDINARY users would do with wireless today.)

"Oh and that thing I do about twice a day call syncing. It would be nice to get rid of extra cables."

Syncing over a Bluetooth connection is that much easier than dropping it in the cradle? Hey, it isn't like you can drive away while you're syncing, and you can't use your Palm for anything else then either.

"So, this is the present and I want it now."

The extra bucks are probably worth it if you really, but presuming to speak for us regular folks, I agree with the first poster - I want a PDA that's easier to use BEFORE it adds more features. For me, that really just means easier to read (HiRes+ screen - and yes, you need to use the font fix, but hey, that's free) and easy to carry (T-series form factor).

You take the present with ya to go to the FUTURE. In that future WIRELESS is present.

Few 'automatic' function examples of Bluetooth:

• A PC and Palm or Phone can be set up so that when they are in proximity, an auto-sync takes place. So instead of putting the Palm in the cradle and hitting the HotSync button, just walk within a few feet of the PC and the two will automatically synchronize.

• One Bluetooth-enabled phone can do three tasks. At home, the phone functions as a portable phone, using a landline. When the user is on the move, it functions as a mobile phone, and when the phone comes within range of another Bluetooth mobile phone, it functions as a walkie-talkie.

• A user can compose e-mail on a Bluetooth-enabled laptop while flying on an airplane and queue up the e-mails to be sent. In her briefcase is a Bluetooth-enabled cell phone, switched off. After she lands, she switches on the cell phone, which connects to the Internet and transmits the mail while she waits for her luggage.

• A field rep has a sales meeting noted in her PalmPilot, and the meeting time changes. Someone calls the rep's cell phone, transmits the new data and the phone routes the new information to the PalmPilot, which beeps to let her know her schedule has changed.

• Products and accounts can be assigned a scanning code. With a swipe of a mobile phone, a sales rep can transmit on-hand inventory status and order information back to the main office.

Just to name a few examples....

SonyEricsson Mobile phone portfolio with various Bluetooth phones
http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?page=GIS

OT concerning Sony's pda's, but wouldn't it be cool to connect your smarthphone in a Bluetooth car kit and use voice dailing for example?????

Comparing a pda (sony) with a smartphone (p800) i see. Two complete different products. SonyEricsson makes phones, Sony PDA's.

Sony Ericsson P800
www.blueunplugged.com/main.asp?option=productrange&prodID=120

Considering the short range of Bluetooth, why not just talk to the person?

Try some simple google queries and all will become clear.
Wireless 101 would be off-topic here.

The examples you listed are mostly in the future, not available today, either because the hardware doesn't exist or the software hasn't been written. Some of these ideas sound good (although I don't know about automatic hotsyncing - what, anytime I get too close to my PC my Palm starts hotsyncing and I have to wait to use it? No thanks!).

But some of us have been looking to Sony to come up with a better PDA before coming up with a better All-Purpose Electronic Device. It seems really obvious to us that they should come out with a "reduced NR70" - meaning a Hi-Res+ screen without the clamshell/keyboard. That way we get a thin device with a great screen.

At least I think it's obvious. Isn't it?

Unfortunatly, the fact that they still don't offer the Bluetooth "Infostick" outside of Japan is not the most hopeful indicator...

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Check out my site:
http://home.attbi.com/~ajramos/
The Untouchables live on!
And host pictures [:D]

So with adding WIRELESS to the Sony Clie you can make phone-calls? Oh? That's new to me.

With WiFi you need Hotspots, with Bluetooth you can use your PDA with Bluetooth Phone anywhere....

Wi-Fi And Bluetooth As Complementary, Not Competing, Technologies
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=33477

"The examples you listed are mostly in the future, not available today...."

• A PC and Palm or Phone can be set up so that when they are in proximity, an auto-sync takes place. So instead of putting the Palm in the cradle and hitting the HotSync button, just walk within a few feet of the PC and the two will automatically synchronize.

Bluetooth + Hotsync are here today and work.

Setup as easy as 1-2-3.
1. Load the software onto your computer. 2. Use the HotSync® function to transfer data. 3. Slide the Palm Bluetooth card into the Palm Expansion Card Slot. The on-screen wizard walks you through set-up.
http://www.palm.com/products/accessories/expansioncards/bluetooth/

I just gave you some possibilities what can be done with Bluetooth (today and in the future)....

ciao

This one made me laugh. The writer has no clue what Bluetooth can and can't do.

Bluetooth won't turn a mobile "cellular" phone to a wireless phone at home. The range is too small <10 metres... 30 feet.. you'd lose signal when at the other end of the room. And as for the walkie talkie function.. ummm yes you could... but again teh range... 10 metres.. you just raise your voice a little..

Bluetooth isn't about this kind of crap, its aboiut reoving wires from our personal devices... pda to mobile phone.. mobile phone to head set, PDA to PC.

Your Guide to Wireless
www.brighthand.com/newsite/palm/views/wirelessguide.html

Nah. You can use ad-hoc mode, device to device like you can with bluetooth. Also cellphone manufacturers like Qualcomm have annouced plans to include 802.11b in their chipsets. There's nothing stopping them in that case from PDA to cellphone 802.11b connections either (In fact it's to theirs and providers benefit to).

"Wi-Fi And Bluetooth As Complementary, Not Competing, Technologies "

So they say, but there's also some feature crossover. Both can print wirelessly as easily with PrintBoy Anywhere (though there are more NIC/network enabled printers out there than BT ones at the moment). Both can make ad-hoc like inter-device connections in a cable-replacement like fashion. I can hotsync over both. I can connect to the internet via both (though the 802.11b public infrustucture is such that BT likely won't compete in this area). There are already 802.11b enabled devices in research homes interacting in a closed network in a wider ranged version of BT's PAN like activities.

In terms of capturing market and mind share, as well as consumer dollars, they are in fact already competing.

"• A PC and Palm or Phone can be set up so that when they are in proximity, an auto-sync takes place. So instead of putting the Palm in the cradle and hitting the HotSync button, just walk within a few feet of the PC and the two will automatically synchronize."

I suppose PocketPC users will be used to that. I prefer to be able to manually hit hotsync on my device from anywhere in the building over 802.11b. Or make a PPTP connection and do it from the airport lounge.

"Bluetooth + Hotsync are here today and work."

And 802.11b isn't? I check "Network" in Hotsync manager, and 802.11b + Hotsync work. And I'm pretty sure HandEra 802.11b drivers pre-date Palm's BT hardware and drivers (at least in public release).

"Setup as easy as 1-2-3."

And for 802.11b:
1. Enable Network hotsync in hotsync manager
2. Insert 802.11b CF card
3. Run Hotsync app, select modem instead of local hotsync, and hit the hotsync button.

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

"Bluetooth won't turn a mobile "cellular" phone to a wireless phone at home. The range is too small <10 metres... 30 feet.. you'd lose signal when at the other end of the room. And as for the walkie talkie function.. ummm yes you could... but again teh range... 10 metres.. you just raise your voice a little.."

Bluetooth is designed to operate up to 10 meters but more powerful transmitters can increase this distance to 100 meters.

BlueCore01 doubles Bluetooth range, reduces power
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2097016,00.html

"Nah. You can use ad-hoc mode, device to device like you can with bluetooth. Also cellphone manufacturers like Qualcomm have annouced plans to include 802.11b in their chipsets. There's nothing stopping them in that case from PDA to cellphone 802.11b connections either (In fact it's to theirs and providers benefit to)."

What nah? Roaming is coming, that's simple. But to use 802.11 (2Mbps-11Mbps) over GSM or GPRS is something different won't you think. Buetooth over GSM or GPRS, CDMA is prefered.

Of course you can use the adhoc mode, but that doesn't say that you can use your 802.11 device with your phone and be wireless connective????? What kind of BS is that.

Qualcomm has plans to integrated 802.11 in certain cdma chips: "We plan to have a device by next year that combines CDMA or W-CDMA and wireless LAN networking. Our approach is similar to the one we have taken with Bluetooth" said Siegmund Redl, director of European marketing at Qualcomm CDMA Technologies.

Qualcomm Bluetooth Chip Solutions
http://www.cdmatech.com/solutions/bluetooth.html

By the way, it doesn't hurt that Qualcomm joint OMA: QUALCOMM intends to contribute to the OMA in order to foster the availability of robust and innovative wireless data applications that take advantage of such standards as MPEG-4, HTML/XML, HTTP, HTTPS, SSL, Bluetooth and GPS. The Company recognizes there is a need for comprehensive wireless data solutions that support the wide variety of devices that will continue to come into the market.

"So they say, but there's also some feature crossover....."

Bluetooth has also a networking function, true, but that is not prefered.

"In terms of capturing market and mind share, as well as consumer dollars, they are in fact already competing."

You mean like market share of cars vs bicycles? Your problem, as with many others, is that you see 802.11 a the 'standard doing everything'. 802.11 as a cheap cable replacement isn't interesting. 802.11 for Wireless Headsets, Keyboards, USB adapters, Pens etc. isn't suitable. Don't you get that? The 802.11-Bluetooth picture isn't clear for a lot people. They don't know the differences between 802.11 and Bluetooth. They don't know where the 2 where designed for in the frist place.

Few Bluetooth Examples

-Bluetooth PlayStation2 gamepad
-Bluetooth (wireless onboard electronics) and Telematics
-Bluetooth Keyboard
-Bluetooth and GPS
-Bluetooth Printers
-Bluetooth OS application(s)/software
-Bluetooth Logboard (Tablet)
-Bluetooth PC/Flash Cards
-Bluetooth Phones
-Bluetooth Headsets
-Bluetooth PC and Notebooks
-Bluetooth Access Points
-Bluetooth USB adapters
-Bluetooth PDA's
-Bluetooth Pen
-Bluetooth Camcorders
-Bluetooth RS232 & serial
-Bluetooth ISDN Access Point/ISDN Adapter (and more)
-Bluetooth Suitcase
-Bluetooth Battery
-Bluetooth for tracking, monitoring and identification of objects (suitcases, laptops, bicycles or even children)
-Bluetooth Mouse
-Bluetooth - Medical applications
-Bluetooth interface for medical instruments
-Bluetooth On-Line

http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=34312

"I suppose PocketPC users will be used to that. I prefer to be able to manually hit hotsync on my device from anywhere in the building over 802.11b. Or make a PPTP connection and do it from the airport lounge."

As if that matters. I just pointed out that it's already here. The person who ask me has question marks that it could be done. I just explained. Wireless and ActiveSync is still difficult by the way (but that's another issue)

"And 802.11b isn't? I check "Network" in Hotsync manager, and 802.11b + Hotsync work. And I'm pretty sure HandEra 802.11b drivers pre-date Palm's BT hardware and drivers (at least in public release)."

Great for ya, but I didn't say that "802.11 isn't". AGAIN: I just showed him it's here today and working. For the record, I use both 802.11 (and Bluetotoh with my iPaq 3870) and Bluetooth (Palm505) and both work fine.

And for 802.11b:
1. Enable Network hotsync in hotsync manager
2. Insert 802.11b CF card
3. Run Hotsync app, select modem instead of local hotsync, and hit the hotsync button.

Thanx for showing us how to set up 802.11 and hotsync??????

Have a nice day.

Please explain to me how and why a battery would use bluetooth. It's impossible to recharge wirelessly. And this list of bluetooth devices you speak of, most of them are already wireless and don't need bluetooth. Don't expect to see all of these devices in one store for about 20 years.

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As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

I didn't know ink could be transmitted wirelessly? That's amazing you show me a Bluetooth pen and I'll show you my own 200-story skyscraper in the desert.

And a Bluetooth suitcase? Get Real! Oh, I get it! You can use your computer and download luggage into the Bluetooth suitcase.

----------------------------------------

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

And stop trashing things you don't fully understand, useybird.

And it IS possible to recharge things wirelessly. It is futuristic and questionable and it's not necessarily by way of bluetooth, but here is a link:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3699

_______________________________________
So how's that nice girlfriend of yours?
Oh she got hit by a car, she's dead.

Bluetooth Batery=Bluetooth + Battery; you can add it to your phone smart guy

Bluetooth Pen's were demonstrated on Tech Events around the world by Ericsson, Anoto and Microsoft this year. So you think Microsoft is being funny on that? Think again (if you can?)

And you also think that the biggerst suitcase supplier in the world called Samsonite is joking on a Suitcase with Bluetooth????

Samsonite launches business briefcase with Bluetooth

Samsonite says its Hardlite with Bluetooth has the following advantages for the traveler:

Tracking: the Bluetooth chip in the Hardlite case can be used as a carrier of vital information, which is necessary for travel, flight information, and gate connections, for example.

Anti-theft: the built-in technology will notify the owner if the case is being removed.

Security: the chip can contain personal data that will identify the owner of the product.

http://www.m-travel.com/20314.shtml

Bluetooth for tracking, monitoring and identification of objects (suitcases, laptops, bicycles or even children)
http://www.bluetags.com/html/product_concepts/generic_tag.html

Bluetooth can be very usefull. Full stop.

To bring things back on-topic, I'd LOVE to see a Clie that ties in to their gaming consoles in the same manner that Nintendo is starting to tie in the GameCube and GameBoy Advance.

For idiots who bash Palm for lacking inivqtion THATS why Sony can AFFORD to be "cutting edge" and Palm cannot, and MUST change slowly. So Palm targets low end and high ends slim and cool looking and "pocketability." There IS a large market that will NEVER use multimedia ect. Palm tagets these. Palm adds such features slowly because they cannot take on PPC directly and keep up. THAT is Sonys role in Palm OS.

Sony and Palm are a "team." PPC is the opponant.

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

if it weren't for sony i'd still be using some low res device that palm device with usb problems.

go sony!

You're new here, aren't you? :)


Jim

When they're not griping, they're making tedious wild claims of Sony dominance, messianic chants of Sony "saving the platform", and any manner of spectacular claims rarely based in reality. That Sony is God's gift to PalmOS, and the rest of the tedious players/licensees should just get out of the way and let Sony pave the way to PDA glory.

Heck I'll give an approving nod in Sony's direction where it's due (and have even a few times in these replies too). But ANY licensees product gets the same affirming nod when they do something right, not just my own particular brand choice. And they all have to take their licks where they're due as well.

So that leads us to the other half of "anti-Sony" comments. Not about the hardware, but it's users, made by NON-Clie users. In general my reading is that PIC readers are becoming fatigued (I know I am) with the typical Clie poster. Alas they don't seem to be taking the hint, and the backlash continues to grow in volume.

[It would be GREAT if Ed and Ryan would finally get rid of anonymous posting -- the quality of discussion would surely improve (remember when they did this at PDABuzz some time back?).]

Anyway, I know quite a number of mature Clie owners who are quite taken with their devices, so perhaps it's not fair to tar all Clie-philes with the same brush. :-)

And I agree about the PIC's abundance of "youthful" forum posters. Seems to detract from the site's overall usefulness and credibility, but is still good entertainment. Isn't this the site that has the "Pepper" character playing chaperone?

Despite Palm's financial troubles, I believe Palm has a greater Market share than Sony.

----------------------------------------

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!

Anyway, when I compare this with the Oslo, they look like two totally different machines. It all depends on what target audience each device is aiming at and there are more people who want a small, sleek device that fits nice in the hand and can contract and get lost in your pocket than those who want a bigger, NR concept design with more multimedia and battery drain options than ever before (cough DIGITAL CAMCORDER cough). I expect the Oslo to outsell this by a notable margin. Go ahead and look at the past, even the present. The NR70v didn't outsell the m515. The N610c, N710c, and N760c never outsold the m505, or even came close to killing it. The same will happen for the Oslo. Sony's pricing is getting ridiculous now. We all thought $600 was too much for a handheld, even with the NR70v feature set, but this thing might even go up to about $700 with all the extra things. Maybe even $800...

----------
The Ten Commandments as beamed onto Moses' Pilot 1000:

1) Thou shall not worship any other OS besides God's OS (aka Palm OS).
2-10) Thou shall not use Pocket PC.

abosco - PLEASE don't post your abuse of the Best Buy Protection Plan. The last thing I want is for someone in their HQ to read this and terminate the program which hurts legitimate protection of a defective unit. Do what you will, but please don't ruin it for all of us by posting your criminal intentions.

THANKS

I can no longer gloat about my superior purchase to my friends, who all actually live and breath around my PDA purchases. Everyone knows how much of a status symbol a PDA is to the real world. People bowed when I walked by because of my NR70V. They will now laugh at my non-working obsolete PDA. I am sad.

Oh no. Boo hoo. This is the end of the world. [/dry sarcasm]

Seriously, am I upset about this? Heck no, I'm rather intrigued and excited. When Sony released the NR70 series, I about fell out of my chair in giddiness, even though I had literally just purchased a T-615C.

Do I HAVE to keep my current PDA in its obsolesence(sp?) when this new one is release? Nope, I can just as easily eBay it and regain SOME of my cost (or sell it to one of my other semi-gadget-freaky friends). Will I do that? Well, probably not. I'll probably just keep it as a backup PDA in case something happens to my new one, but that's just me.

My point? Does it matter? I'll just get flamed anyway.

As heard on "Cheers":
All:NORM!
Woody:What's up Mr. Peterson?
Norm:The warranty on my liver!