Comments on: Sony Announces OS 5 NX Series

WTG Ryan!!!!!

- Dan

from 'Sony unveils Clie models for local market'
October 2, 2002 12:00am
Financial Times Limited, All Rights Reserved
http://www.wirelessweek.com/index.asp?layout=story&articleId=NEa1001062.3iw

There Bluetooth Module by Sony Corporation became BQP on 2002-08-01
http://qualweb.opengroup.org/Template2.cfm?LinkQualified=QualifiedProducts&Details=Yes&ProductID=828

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

aflores
Fanatic of PDA whit Palm OS

It's not cool, its a life saver.

The botton two are a Clie Bluetooth MemStick to the left and a Vaio Bleutooth USB dongle to the right.

Right?

BTW, that Sony WiFi card looks *exactly* like the one made by Symbol. If that's the case, it's great news -- it's the best-rated lowest-power-consuming solution out there! :)

- Dan

The black casing sure looks cool though.

---
George W. Bush at his best!
http://raj.phangureh.com/foolme.html

I just got a T68i phone and am looking forward to the bluetooth connection.

I won't dare to go Tungsten and I think it would not compare to this

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

As former japanese users of the n760 (US-Modell) already had the bluetooth-serial-donggle! (PEGA-BT700) which works with my european n770c too (for dial-up networking only as other apps don't know the japanese drivers) and could still use their memory-stick, I think they might want have the same functionality with thery nx-series pda.

I think the following link could be a cf-bluetooth-adapter (the text beneath the picture writes bluetooth):

scroll down to the 6. picture from top):

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-T650C/mobile.html

Christian Stocker

If the communication adapter *1 and the Bluetooth of selling separately (the TM) you use *2 module, Internet connection the wireless. If the " CLIE Mail " it can do also the sending and receiving of the attachment file. In addition, you bring up the mail and the WEB data from the personal computer, can also peruse with offline.

*1 The communication card of compact flash type is necessary.
*2 The correspondence portable telephone and the access point are necessary.

Christian Stocker

Just an additional note here: the PEGA-BT700 clipon for the S- and N-series was a very early bleeding-edge product and was compliant with the Bluetooth 1.0 spec. Unfortunately, Bt 1.0 has quite limited support for some of the cool protocols, so if you're looking to get into Bluetooth keep this in mind!

The vast majority of Bt-devices that are currently on the market (and due for release) are all Bt 1.1 spec. My experience has been *extremely* positive with all the 1.1 gear I've tried (with the exception of the iPAQ 3870 - but that's a different story!)

- Dan

Here's hoping that it will be released to the North American market soon, and that it will be less expensive than the $150 WiFi card!

- Dan

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NX70V/acc.html

My apologies to the rest of the world - I'm Canadian, and should know better ;)

- Dan

I only hope that a clever third-party developer will create a cf-card to memory-stick adaptor for the bluetooth-memory-stick, or that palm-drivers for the existing cf-bluetooth-cards will be written.

I found a description on the japanese site which show's that the blueetooth-solution (blue shema) has only been thought with the memory stick. Further they seem to have in japan various cf-mobile-communication-cards from third-party developpers called air-card, petit a.s.o. (red shema) (see the flash-demo too for that aspect). I hope nokia or so will develop a gsm/gprs cf-card for usa/europe too (wireless lan is described in the green shema part):

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NX70V/feat1.html

By the way, did you see the flash-demo, which you find on the first link under the main photo on the left side on this url:

http://www.sony.jp/CLIE/index_pc.html

With that demo you're able to test the new application-launcher and you can zoom in and out and scrool the webbrowser.

Christian Stocker

http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=FA-CFMS

There seem to be al lot of "if only.... would work". Maybe there is a solution?

Christian Stocker

Hopefully there will be battery extender (sleds, etc.) and a hack to make the CF slot useful to those that care not a wit about 802.11 wireless (me).

Bluetooth=PAN=low power=cable replacement (+ automatic synchronization)=supports voice right away=mobile (threw Telecom Networks: GSM, GPRS, CDMA....)

802.11/wifi=LAN=higher power=battery sapping=networking (no automatic synchronization)=doesn't support voice right away=not mobile enough (limited to Open Access Points)

Bluetooth and (not Versus) Wi-Fi (802.11): Wi-Fi And Bluetooth As Complementary, Not Competing, Technologies
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=33477

"802.11 NOT the one-size-fits-all wireless technology"
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=41543

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Now, as I'm excited about the new Sony's, I can't help but feel that the battery-life might be a problem. The NR70/V had quite a bad battery life (compared to other Palm-OS devices), and so does the T665c. Ok, I know that a Palm M515 don't have hires+, mp3 and an integrated keyboard, but what does all does extras do if your handheld dies when you really need it? And no, not everyone works or stay at places where a power-outlet is easily available for charging.

But either way, these devices are good for the Palm OS, and it's nice to be able to chose from a wide variety of handhelds, using your favorite OS!


I'm just not a signature kind of guy..

(1) the brightness of the screen has a big effect on power consumption. For a professional overview of this as it applies to the N760C see:
<http://www.pstec.de/ppp/pppclie/pppclie.html#T3b>

Hopefully, Peter will get one of the new devices for one of his killer technical reviews! :)

(2) the music-playing specs state 4 hours with backlight off, but a more meaningful spec might be music playback in the "hold" position - that extends the time on the N760C and T665 models by quite a lot (I don't have personal experience with the NR70V... :(

- Dan

If you're interested in learning about OS5/ARM a good place to start is:
<http://www.palmos.com/dev/programs/palmosready/>

It will be interesting to see how much work is required by the developers of the "hi-res" and "hi-res+" apps that used Sony's proprietary display APIs, to meet the new OS5 display APIs.

The list for these apps is at:
<http://www.clieuk.co.uk/cphires.shtml>

- Dan

So, basicly, if you are used to hi-res apps, we might have to wait until the devlopers catch up and make OS5 compatible "double density" apps. But maybe Sony added something to make the old hi-res apps compatible on there devices. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

If Palm bring out an OS update for their OS5 devices, and Sony don't, then it will be obvious that it is purely due to marketing. Hopefully this would pressure on them to do so. Otherwise, those thinking of buying the new model might just buy a different PDA such as Palm instead.

Zuber

I'm thinking back to the PEG-N710C vs. PEG-N760C issue a while ago. Almost identical in hardware specifications (except form factor, I believe), only the N760c was released soon after the N710c touting better features, when the only apparent differences were the updated OS version and higher color support. It was a software problem, not a hardware one since the N710c was technically capable of 16-bit color, even though it only allowed for 12-bit.

Then an unofficial hack was released to the public which allowed you to upgrade on your own. But Sony caught on and finally offered an official upgrade (at a charge, of course) for $50 and also for a very limited time of 4 months. Not to mention you had to send your CLIÉ in to Sony. And this was the only time I've ever read/heard about Sony offering OS upgrades.

Still, I'm personally intrigued by their new OS5 offering with all the nice little features, but I'm going to pass based on form factor alone; not to mention there's no integrated BT. This will also probably be uncomfortable in my pants pocket (which is usually where my m505 is), and I carry that everywhere. Besides, that clam shell is just too bothersome for me.

However, I'll bite if there is a T665c with integrated BT and OS5. :)

Jim

Doh! I meant the PEG-SJ30. Heh. :)

Jim

FWIW, I think that a win-win OS upgrade path would involve the following: the customer orders a (say) 16MB memory card that has an automatic flash upgrading app pre-installed. This kind of app has been perfected by our friends at HandEra. This way, there's no downtime for the customer and they end up with a spare card that they can erase and use as a RAM backup.

And yes, this method has already been recommended to some of the Licensees :)

- Dan

Not that it matters, but it was the other way around. The unofficial methods appeared first.

A) An OS 5 handheld isn't even available to the public at this time. Why even speculate about OS 6? But since some people are worrying about OS 6, why not worry about OS 7 while you're at it? Or better yet, OS 8 and 9 too?

B) By the time OS 6 *is* available, the power-sucking NX will have run it's Li-ion battery through so many charging cycles that you'll be the proud owner of a PDA with the staying power of a nervous 18-year-old on prom night. In other words: time to get a new handheld.

Actually, I care, but only in respect to updates, not full upgrades. I want to be able to flash an updated OS with bug fixes and additional features, rather than purchasing a new model.

Jim

"Now thats just PRIME!"

I really like the NX and would change it for my NR instantly - but since nobody would change with me I´ll stick with my NR till a slim non-keyboard, non-clamshell version comes out.

... broadcasting form Cologne, Germany

Zuber

it's the less expensive model, chiming in at $100 less. NX60 I believe

4 hrs mp3 with backlight off

2.5 hrs mp3 with backlight on

1 hr 20 min with backlight mp3 and WIFI on.

And don't forget temperature. Li-ion battery life is
significantly shorter if it's below normal room
temperature (e.g. outdoors on a cold night).

If these numbers are actual, then that is shorter than my average commute to work! LOL! Not that I'd be using WiFi in such a scenario, but in perspective, that's incredibly short. ;)

Jim

It isn't impossible, but you would have to do some serious reverse engineering or create one major hack to get it to work.

If Sony wanted their slot to work for memory and other CF cards, they could do it themselves. They don't want it to work that way, and that is what we get. I'm sure somebody else will release a Palm OS device with a CF slot.

Just read this at PDAGeek

http://www.geek.com/pdageek/features/pegnx70v/index.htm

I asked about the wireless slot (which takes CF cards). It's definitely Sony card-ready, but you can use other cards. It's NOT proprietary, okay? The Sony people told me that the Sony card will definitely work out of the box (read: others will work, but you'll probably have to diddle around a bit to make them.) I guess we'll have to do some experiments to test this, now won't we?

If this is true I will buy one.

I think ED should do some test's in his coming rewiev of the nx70.

Europe's Sony Websites don't show the new model :-(

Christian Stocker

I don't see how this is any less innovative than the dozen models (other than the NR series) that followed the N710C with minimal change in features.

Actually, it's ONE external memory slot, and one slot that we only know for sure will support Sony's Wi-Fi card, and possibly other CF modems, but have no indication that it can use regular CF memory cards...

Sure it would've been better if:
1 - the CF slot was generic and worked for memory devices
2 - the keyboard was "fixed"
3 - had built-in Bluetooth
4 - had better battery life and/or removable battery

You know they're going to release a new one in 6 months or less. OS6 probably won't be ready by then, so what improves are they going to make?

NX80V -- expect the following
- running OS5 5.x
- possibly faster Xscale CPU
- higher res video
- possibly removable battery
- maybe 32MB RAM
- maybe built-in Bluetooth

But that's it! Don't expect too much. If you look at Sony's strategy for their other products, it's usually not a technical reason for having (or lack of) this feature or that feature. It's mostly a marketting decision.

Sharp had all that for a Zaurus model back in the spring. I'm not sure if it was released, since it doesn't sell in the US.

seems kind of shallow.

Zuber

The normal battery life rating for the NX70V is EXACTLY the same as the the NR70V:

(From the NR70V operating guide)

"Battery Life
10 Days*
*Based on average of 30 min. use of PIMs per day with backlight off. The battery lifespan varies depending on the temperature and the conditions of use."

While it is not great, it is quite adequate.

As a matter of fact, you may want to check out the link below from Sony support called "How to test the battery life of a Sony Clie handheld".

http://sawebp1.sel.sony.com/scripts/web_access.cgi?FUNC=SOLUTION_DETAIL&SOL_ID=1670005259

They basically test running a movie continuously on a fully charged PDA, until the battery dies. Their claim for ALL color Clies is only 3-4 hours of continuous operation.

Zuber

Wish they had given more specifics, like sidelights on or off, volume setting, etc, as those can have a huge effect on life.

Casio has a claim that one of their organzers has a battery life of 180 hours. But when you read the fine print, they tell you that this is only when the device is showing the contact list and you don't touch any buttons. Yeah, right! This actually means it can keep the LCD on for 180 hours and nothing else.

The normal battery life rating for the NX70V is EXACTLY the same as the the NR70V:

(From the NR70V operating guide)

"Battery Life
10 Days*
*Based on average of 30 min. use of PIMs per day with backlight off. The battery lifespan varies depending on the temperature and the conditions of use."

While it is not great, it is quite adequate.

Thank you. This was very helpful. My clie N760 only lasts 4-5 hours now since its battery is tapped. I guess The NX series is something I can live with. What I don't understand is why the NX series can't match the N series when playing mp3s without the backlight. Is the 200 Mhz processor still sucking up juice?

I may have to agree that based on the supplied numbers alone, the battery life is somewhat adequate. However, in my opinion, real world scenarios are a much better measure of battery life than ones based on 30 minute use of only PIMs per day with backlight off, as they stated.

With all the features that this model has, it doesn't seem to be geared towards the casual user, but a high-end one. Which is confusing because the high-end user would probably utilize the additional features more, especially for a greater length than 30 minutes/day. What kind of high-end user would purchase this model just for PIM and with backlight off? And I seriously doubt that a casual user would purchase this model just for regular PIM alone, unless they love Sony and/or have money to burn.

I would like to see numbers based on occasional mp3 playback, maybe a picture taken or two, with possibly a recorded voice message here and there, as well as PIM functions within a 30 minute use period per day with backlight on. I doubt that the end result will amount to 10 days.

Also, I always include the 'backlight on' option because I'm sure 80-90% of the time (if not 100% for models with rechargeable batteries), we all use the backlight, no?

Jim

It also will likely work with the computer off so that you don't need to boot to listen and charge....

-

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." - George Gobol.

Good point. Thanks for the reality check!

-jeremy

What's the recharge rate on this anyhow?

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

You'd have to ask Sony why they do this, but my feeling is that 1) In the US people are willing to pay more and that 2) it takes some extra effort to have them in English.