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Comments on: Sony Announces OS 5 NX Series

PEG NX-70VSony has just announced the Clié PEG NX-70V and NX-60 handhelds. These models run Palm OS 5 on a 200mhz ARM CPU (Intel XScale PAX250). They have a high-Resolution TFT 320x480 screen, 16 MB RAM, 16 MB ROM, a new wireless expansion slot, Memory Stick slot, a built-in voice recorder, MP3 player and an internal mini keyboard. The handhelds have the similar folding clamshell design from the Sony NR series.

Pricing for these models has the NX-70V at $599, and the NX60 retailing for $499. Both will be available in the US around the beginning of November, SonyStyle lists them as shipping on or before Oct. 28.

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Off we go!

Sholey @ 10/2/2002 1:02:46 AM #
Right on time! October 2! Just like taht guy from PALMI said!

RE: Off we go!
Steven Eil @ 10/2/2002 6:03:20 AM #
That guy ;-)
If the CF wireless slot will be productive, this is my next device (And maybe not, I bought the NR70V one month ago).

Steven Eil
CTO & Palm OS Editor
Palmi
RE: Off we go!
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 1:30:02 PM #
After pouring over the comments in this thread I have to say that the quality of discussion is *marked* improved over the bad old anonymous posting days!

WTG Ryan!!!!!

- Dan

RE: Off we go!
dmoynihan @ 10/3/2002 12:55:59 AM #
And the volume hasn't dropped much... nice!

Sony preparing for Bluetooth and wireless connections
pdangel @ 10/3/2002 2:02:02 PM #
Common features in the Clie models are powered by lithium-polymer batteries and come with Documents To Go 4.0 and Presenter-to-Go. As for optional accessories, there are plenty to choose from, including a gamepad. For Bluetooth and wireless connections, Sony said it is preparing for them.

from 'Sony unveils Clie models for local market'
October 2, 2002 12:00am
Financial Times Limited, All Rights Reserved
http://www.wirelessweek.com/index.asp?layout=story&articleId=NEa1001062.3iw

There Bluetooth Module by Sony Corporation became BQP on 2002-08-01
http://qualweb.opengroup.org/Template2.cfm?LinkQualified=QualifiedProducts&Details=Yes&ProductID=828



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Off we go - The right way
PalmPC @ 10/3/2002 8:47:26 PM #
This is the way Sony’s new ‘Premier Palm’ should have been. Release the nice ‘non-clamshell’ versions first to temp us then hit us with the amazing OS 5 NX Series! I wish I had been able to wait for this awesome beast!!!

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity..."
RE: Off we go!
myname @ 10/4/2002 3:14:02 AM #
Thats they way sony releases Stuff, open the way with a super high end then release a mid end device, then finally a "dirt cheap" low end device.

RE: Off we go!
abosco @ 10/4/2002 8:47:42 PM #
Well, now that Sony is pretty well off in the low-end and mid-range market, they won't release another model like these for maybe six months. But you don't know... the rule of thumb with Sony is, it's Sony!

Beer is living proof that God wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin
RE: Off we go!
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:31:38 PM #
Yah, can't believe it was released on time!
That's so unusual. They normally don't seem to get out their products on the schedualed release date.
Great Job!

Cool

Clarence @ 10/2/2002 1:04:58 AM #
First comment! Cool

Cant wait to have a review of these.

Clarence

RE: Cool
Sholey @ 10/2/2002 1:09:34 AM #
sorry!

RE: Cool
DrAndrew @ 10/2/2002 1:09:48 AM #
Black! That is cool!
RE: Cool
markgm @ 10/2/2002 9:12:32 AM #
The black is cool, but if it scratches up like my nr70v, then I'd say go with the silver.

RE: Cool
aflores @ 10/2/2002 10:47:30 AM #
This is great. but I donn't like the black color.
I prefer the silver

aflores
Fanatic of PDA whit Palm OS

It is actually Graphite Gray
speed-angel @ 10/2/2002 2:29:47 PM #
As described in the original site (In Japanese)

RE: Cool
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:32:53 PM #
cool? It's usful and intelligent, its a great idea and will improve lives.

It's not cool, its a life saver.

What are those oddly shaped accessories?

spidreman @ 10/2/2002 1:19:38 AM #
If you follow the link from the article to sony, then click on the first nx picture...takes you to:
http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/peg/Store/Clie/Nx/Nx70v_g/index.html
Then scroll down and you'll some square cards(SD cards?) right above the 2 memory sticks. What are they? I'm no good at understanding Japanese.
RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
McMagnus @ 10/2/2002 1:36:23 AM #
They look like communications paths between a Clie and a Vaio. The top two are probably WiFi-cards, the left one is the Compact Flash version for the Clie and the right one probably fits in a Vaio.

The botton two are a Clie Bluetooth MemStick to the left and a Vaio Bleutooth USB dongle to the right.

Right?

RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
oli61 @ 10/2/2002 1:44:03 AM #
The left one says "PEGA-WL100", so I guess the "WL" means wireless. I think it's the wireless-card for the new port.

RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
HandyMan @ 10/2/2002 2:07:13 AM #
The other thing is a WiFi access point.

RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
fulmer @ 10/2/2002 4:50:13 AM #
the top left "square" image is the mini-cf card. the top right "square" image is the wireless lan base station.
RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
Guinfs @ 10/2/2002 9:13:06 AM #
Top left is the WI-FI CF card, top right WI-FI hub, botton left bluetooth MS and botton right is a bluetooth port that has an USB interface. They are showing the two options for wireless access.

Guinfs
RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
Xaositek @ 10/2/2002 9:32:38 AM #
Anyone know if the WiFi card made by Sony will be compatible with the Apple Airport?

--------------------------------
Jason
appleJAC MUG Webmaster
Mid-MO PUG Officer
No-Rulz, Inc. Webmaster
RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 1:27:23 PM #
The PEGA-WL100 card is 802.11b compliant so one would expect there should be no problems interfacing with Apple AirPort gear.

BTW, that Sony WiFi card looks *exactly* like the one made by Symbol. If that's the case, it's great news -- it's the best-rated lowest-power-consuming solution out there! :)

- Dan

RE: What are those oddly shaped accessories?
useybird @ 10/2/2002 11:18:51 PM #
On the US site there is a thing called a speaker cable. What is this and how does it work?

-------------
Burning Desire: The want or need for something great.
Burning THE Zire: A fun recreational activity involving setting Palm's new crappy handheld ablaze.
Speaker *cradle* not cable ;-)
Palm_Otaku @ 10/3/2002 8:05:09 PM #

ill-smelling it is!

Red Mercury @ 10/2/2002 1:24:11 AM #
Related product & accessory
As for line-up this way.

Selling price: 59,800 Circle (classified by tax * postage extra) Product information (to Sony Drive)

Furthermore the PalmcOs which evolved (R) 5, the high-speed CPU Intel R PXA250 (the 200MHz) with loading, Internet and the mail the ƒTƒNƒTƒN!

* Privacy liquid crystal film present!
* Software the coupon which can be used even in download 3,000 cyclotomic offers!
(It is period limitation up to 2002/11/30!)
* PHS CF card desired one being free in everyone, it presents!
(In utilization it is necessary for you to make a contract with the separate DDI Pocket)
* Stylish SONY style original case generous treatment sale!
* Preceding and reservation in the one which it receives the postage free coupon present!

Selling price: 49,800 Circle (classified by tax * postage extra) Product information (to Sony Drive)

The new Internet browser, the wireless also the software which such as NetFront Ver.3.0 for ƒNƒŠƒG and CLIE Mail Ver.2.0 enjoys is quantity, ill-smelling it is!

* Privacy liquid crystal film present!
* Software the coupon which can be used even in download 3,000 cyclotomic offers!
(It is period limitation up to 2002/11/30!)
* PHS CF card desired one being free in everyone, it presents!
(In utilization it is necessary for you to make a contract with the separate DDI Pocket)
* Stylish SONY style original case generous treatment sale!
* Preceding and reservation in the one which it receives the postage free coupon present!

Selling price: 29,800 Circle (classified by tax * postage extra) Product information (to Sony Drive)

At the time of a certain the portable game machine, at the time of a certain the publisher's series which is settled entirely in the palm. The high performance closely in the small body.

* Period * quantity limitation! Popularity game software no charge present!
* Privacy liquid crystal film at generous treatment sale offer!

Selling price: 39,800 Circle (classified by tax * postage extra) Product information (to Sony Drive)

High speed CPU and the Dragonball Super VZ 66mHz speed up the operation impression. Furthermore it loaded music playback function and as the entertainment equipment which evolved the charm sufficient.

* Privacy liquid crystal film present!
* Buying, the original set which it can enjoy directly the preparation!

Copyright 2002 Sony Marketing (Japan) Inc. | | | |

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

RE: ill-smelling it is!
Admin @ 10/2/2002 1:29:15 AM #
English - Japanese translations are always instant humor! Great stuff.
RE: ill-smelling it is!
RSC @ 10/2/2002 2:23:58 PM #
But Master Yoda, *why* does it stink? ;)

RE: ill-smelling it is!
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:33:42 PM #
Ill smelling? how can a list smell/Stink?
Whats wrong with it, it's all just a bunch of legal mumbojumbo to me.

-Andrew
_______________________________________
Email me about anything at
andrewholler@rogers.com
Current PDA:= Palm M130
by the way, Can someone buy me a TT?

Bluetooth

carr7 @ 10/2/2002 1:29:39 AM #
The only thing keeping me from buying this is built-in bluetooth. The memory stick adapter is just too expensive and takes up the slot. With 16meg memory the slot will need to be free for extra memory.

RE: Bluetooth
big_raji @ 10/2/2002 1:41:16 AM #
Definitely agree. I'm actually tempted to go from my NR70v to a Tungsten, believe it or not.

The black casing sure looks cool though.

---
George W. Bush at his best!
http://raj.phangureh.com/foolme.html

RE: Bluetooth
carr7 @ 10/2/2002 1:43:15 AM #
As much as I would like to have the nice screen, I too am looking at the Tungsten for its compactness and bluetooth adapter.

I just got a T68i phone and am looking forward to the bluetooth connection.

Battery life
XScale @ 10/2/2002 1:51:25 AM #
I sure hope Sony has given the battery more juice. If not, I can only imagine how bad battery life is going to be with WiFi going.

RE: Bluetooth
speed-angel @ 10/2/2002 2:33:48 AM #
Personally I think the bluetooth memorystick would do the job......it just needs to be below 100

I won't dare to go Tungsten and I think it would not compare to this

Palm Tungsten T vs. Sony Clié PEG-NX70V
pdangel @ 10/2/2002 3:15:38 AM #
Sony will introduce the PEGA-MSB1, a Memory Stick that adds Bluetooth connectivity to its CLIE line of PDAs, to the European market. I'd be surprised if Sony chose to not introduce the PEGA-MSB1 into the US market as well.....plus 'some Bluetooth/802.11 facts':
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=42064
Palm Tungsten T vs Sony Clié PEG-NX70V
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=41860
6 PDA's with Built-in Bluetooth
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=41971
Palm Wireless Connectivity Strategy
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=26568


"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Bluetooth
skccs @ 10/2/2002 3:40:33 AM #
I agree, no bluetooth together with the memory-stick ist really bad. There is no Email and no Internet-Standard. Depending on what kind of attachement you use, you will have to load the appropriate email-client from your memory-stick, as you can't keep all these apps within your 16 mb ram. Add avantgo, blazer, xino and the new bundled high-res! browser from sony. Add some SMS-Bluetooth apps a.s.o.

As former japanese users of the n760 (US-Modell) already had the bluetooth-serial-donggle! (PEGA-BT700) which works with my european n770c too (for dial-up networking only as other apps don't know the japanese drivers) and could still use their memory-stick, I think they might want have the same functionality with thery nx-series pda.

I think the following link could be a cf-bluetooth-adapter (the text beneath the picture writes bluetooth):

scroll down to the 6. picture from top):

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-T650C/mobile.html


Christian Stocker

RE: Bluetooth
fulmer @ 10/2/2002 4:58:44 AM #
the 6th image from the top is a wi-fi mini-cf card. it says "optional accessory" for the bluetooth adapter.
RE: Bluetooth
skccs @ 10/2/2002 6:37:57 AM #
I did a babelfish-translation from the text to the 6. picture (which I suppose is a thirdparty and compatible cf-bluetooth-adapter):

If the communication adapter *1 and the Bluetooth of selling separately (the TM) you use *2 module, Internet connection the wireless. If the " CLIE Mail " it can do also the sending and receiving of the attachment file. In addition, you bring up the mail and the WEB data from the personal computer, can also peruse with offline.

*1 The communication card of compact flash type is necessary.
*2 The correspondence portable telephone and the access point are necessary.


Christian Stocker

RE: Bluetooth
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 2:03:47 PM #
I'm very disappointed the new model doesn't have integrated Bluetooth too.

Just an additional note here: the PEGA-BT700 clipon for the S- and N-series was a very early bleeding-edge product and was compliant with the Bluetooth 1.0 spec. Unfortunately, Bt 1.0 has quite limited support for some of the cool protocols, so if you're looking to get into Bluetooth keep this in mind!

The vast majority of Bt-devices that are currently on the market (and due for release) are all Bt 1.1 spec. My experience has been *extremely* positive with all the 1.1 gear I've tried (with the exception of the iPAQ 3870 - but that's a different story!)

- Dan

RE: Bluetooth
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 4:04:48 PM #
Hmm, further disappointment: the Bluetooth Memory Stick (PEGA-MSB1) isn't listed as an accessory on either the (now updated) Clie NX Accessory page or on the sonystyle Clie page. Not on the "Wireless" page either.

Here's hoping that it will be released to the North American market soon, and that it will be less expensive than the $150 WiFi card!

- Dan

RE: Bluetooth
fulmer @ 10/3/2002 1:19:04 AM #
The bluetooth card is still listed as an acc. on the following page.

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NX70V/acc.html


RE: Bluetooth
Palm_Otaku @ 10/3/2002 4:16:08 AM #
Ooops - sorry, I should have clarified that. The Bluetooth card isn't listed on the North American Clie pages.

My apologies to the rest of the world - I'm Canadian, and should know better ;)

- Dan

RE: Bluetooth
TheCow5@ @ 10/3/2002 4:31:55 AM #
I can’t believe that they maid all these changes but didn’t make the bluetooth an internal part of the device. Someone went to asleep on that one.
How does the XDA’s compare to this NX70v ?

RE: Bluetooth
skccs @ 10/4/2002 8:28:48 AM #
Yes, me too, I can't really believe, they didn't take the market's outside of japan not serious enough. This is really bad, especially when you consider, that browsers like xiino can create browser-cache on the memory-card, but you have to take her out. I can only understand it under the aspect, that in japan they have other solutions (mobile-phone-cf-cards) and that the nx-series already had a lot of vallue added stuff and the had to look for the price.

I only hope that a clever third-party developer will create a cf-card to memory-stick adaptor for the bluetooth-memory-stick, or that palm-drivers for the existing cf-bluetooth-cards will be written.

I found a description on the japanese site which show's that the blueetooth-solution (blue shema) has only been thought with the memory stick. Further they seem to have in japan various cf-mobile-communication-cards from third-party developpers called air-card, petit a.s.o. (red shema) (see the flash-demo too for that aspect). I hope nokia or so will develop a gsm/gprs cf-card for usa/europe too (wireless lan is described in the green shema part):

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NX70V/feat1.html

By the way, did you see the flash-demo, which you find on the first link under the main photo on the left side on this url:

http://www.sony.jp/CLIE/index_pc.html

With that demo you're able to test the new application-launcher and you can zoom in and out and scrool the webbrowser.

Christian Stocker

RE: Bluetooth
skccs @ 10/4/2002 9:30:51 AM #
expansys.com offers a cf-to-memory-stick-adapter. If this one would work for memory sticks, the main memory-stick slot of the nx70 could be used for the bluetooth-memory-stick:

http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=FA-CFMS

There seem to be al lot of "if only.... would work". Maybe there is a solution?

Christian Stocker

RE: Bluetooth
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:34:53 PM #
Will bluetooth really help this product? I don't know. Bluetooth is helpful, but would you buy it, if it didn't have bluetooth options?

Some SPECS translated

HandyMan @ 10/2/2002 1:54:08 AM #
SPECS for NX70V
OS - PalmOS 5.0
CPU - Intel (R) PXA250 200MHz
RAM - 16MB
ROM - 16MB (flash memory)

Interface - USB and infrared ray port
- memory stick " slot
- card slot for communication
- port for AV remote control, headphone & stereo mini- jack

Display - Back light loading TFT color liquid crystal display
- 320 X 480 dots / 65,536 color

Playback Freq - 20Hz - 20,000Hz
Recording (128MB MagicGate)
~120 minutes (bit rate 132kbps)
~160 minutes (bit rate 105kbps),
~240 minutes (bit rate 66kbps)

Audio playback time:
backlit off - 4.0 hours
backlit on - 2.5 hour

Size - width 72.3× height 136.0× depth 23.5mm
Weight - 220g

Battery life - 10 days (30 mins per day) with backlit off
Battery life with using LAN CARD - 2.5 hours



RE: Some SPECS translated
Take1 @ 10/2/2002 3:00:13 AM #
The battery life really is ridiculously short for this to be a viable portable platform. My laptop gets a solid 3 hours on a single charge and I would expect my PDA to beat that kind of battery life.

Hopefully there will be battery extender (sleds, etc.) and a hack to make the CF slot useful to those that care not a wit about 802.11 wireless (me).


RE: Some SPECS translated
myname @ 10/2/2002 3:15:45 AM #
it should be sony trying to avoid official support of other device, since the old CF Sleeve addon from sony works with most generic modem. we'll know when it's released

Bluetooth vs 802.11?
pdangel @ 10/2/2002 3:28:22 AM #
The battery drain of the Sony takes longer compared to the Toshiba e740 (ok, that one is integrated) with 1 hour 45.

Bluetooth=PAN=low power=cable replacement (+ automatic synchronization)=supports voice right away=mobile (threw Telecom Networks: GSM, GPRS, CDMA....)

802.11/wifi=LAN=higher power=battery sapping=networking (no automatic synchronization)=doesn't support voice right away=not mobile enough (limited to Open Access Points)

Bluetooth and (not Versus) Wi-Fi (802.11): Wi-Fi And Bluetooth As Complementary, Not Competing, Technologies
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=33477

"802.11 NOT the one-size-fits-all wireless technology"
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PALM&read=41543



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Some SPECS translated
I.M. Anonymous. @ 10/2/2002 3:44:08 AM #
I've been using my Palm M515 with the bluetooth sd-card for a while, and I think that it does not eat up as much battery as I was afraid of.

Now, as I'm excited about the new Sony's, I can't help but feel that the battery-life might be a problem. The NR70/V had quite a bad battery life (compared to other Palm-OS devices), and so does the T665c. Ok, I know that a Palm M515 don't have hires+, mp3 and an integrated keyboard, but what does all does extras do if your handheld dies when you really need it? And no, not everyone works or stay at places where a power-outlet is easily available for charging.

But either way, these devices are good for the Palm OS, and it's nice to be able to chose from a wide variety of handhelds, using your favorite OS!


I'm just not a signature kind of guy..

RE: Some SPECS translated
markgm @ 10/2/2002 9:15:11 AM #
4 hours mp3 playback with the backlight off? That's getting very close to the line of unusable!

RE: Some SPECS translated
Guinfs @ 10/2/2002 9:38:09 AM #
They could as well have placed a power outlet in this model so we could plug a travel iron or a hair dryer in its superpowerful battery. :)

Guinfs
Battery Life
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 1:43:22 PM #
Hmm, we'll have to see what kind of real-world numbers we get, but a couple of points worth considering:

(1) the brightness of the screen has a big effect on power consumption. For a professional overview of this as it applies to the N760C see:
<http://www.pstec.de/ppp/pppclie/pppclie.html#T3b>

Hopefully, Peter will get one of the new devices for one of his killer technical reviews! :)

(2) the music-playing specs state 4 hours with backlight off, but a more meaningful spec might be music playback in the "hold" position - that extends the time on the N760C and T665 models by quite a lot (I don't have personal experience with the NR70V... :(

- Dan

RE: Some SPECS translated
useybird @ 10/2/2002 11:22:03 PM #
I have a friend that thinks the NR70v has a 16.7 million color display. Can anyone confirm this?

-------------
Burning Desire: The want or need for something great.
Burning THE Zire: A fun recreational activity involving setting Palm's new crappy handheld ablaze.
RE: Some SPECS translated
Take1 @ 10/6/2002 2:32:08 AM #
Yes it does. It's 16.7 million color COMBINATIONS to be accurate. Just ask the folks at Palm and they'll explain it to you! :)

She's like a brick...house...!

Palmcicle @ 10/2/2002 1:50:40 AM #
While this series is certainly the better of the two inital OS5 offerings I have to say I am somwhat dissapointed with the "thick and chunky" form factor. I am sure a thinner version will reveal itself shortly. A non-CF slot version would be nice. Well-done Sony! I wish Palm well with their new OS5 device also. Long live the Palm OS! Buy what you like, and like what you buy.

______
Phew...what that smell? Did someone Zire?

RE: She's like a brick...house...!
M3wThr33 @ 10/2/2002 1:59:34 AM #
300 Minutes of battery life WITHOUT BACKLIGHT? I'd need to recharge twice a day if I used it with one... that's pretty bad. We know their priorities at Sony.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: She's like a brick...house...!
ankers @ 10/2/2002 2:44:38 AM #
That CF slot is awful - let's hope they get rid of it soon. Battery life is a real worry. But I am tempted.

RE: She's like a brick...house...!
yinlight @ 10/2/2002 2:02:01 PM #
I don't see how something with a clam shell can be longer than the Palm branded ones without it. They should work on having a shorter and slimmer version.

RE: She's like a brick...house...!
myname @ 10/4/2002 3:17:57 AM #
You guys are comparing a different product ... it's like complaining why the SJ serires is not running OS 5 ... The NX series is not at the same level as the tungeXXX (forgot it's name Palm you should really consider rename that product) wait for the T-series replacement then compare again ..

Sony's OS5 NX handheld

gulmatan @ 10/2/2002 3:00:11 AM #
Well,

Sony's first out of the gate?! Maybe it's not. There are still Palm's Oct 7/28th release dates to consider.

Furthermore, while OS5 may be the what we've been waiting for, consider this: We Palm/Sony/whatever owners stiill have to contend with updating all our software. fonts and hacks to work with OS5.

While this is true, why are we so anxious to step up to a new OS5 platform when we still have to uphill climb and make sure all our existing software will be up to OS5's challenges.

Wouldn't it be better to wait and see the progress it takes for our software to be OS5-ready and THEN make the jump to an OS5 handheld.

As for me, my strategy is this: I'll probably get Palm's next OS4 Tungsten model, then start making sure my existing software is upgraded and updated to OS5. Then, after all the software I currently use is OS5 ready, get an OS5 Tungsten Palm. That way, my existing software base will be compliant with OS5. The stuff that will only run OS4, I'll keep my OS4 Palm for those items.

What do you thing of my strategy?

Matt A.

RE: Sony's OS5 NX handheld
Wenda @ 10/2/2002 3:14:39 AM #
I want to be the guinea pig to test the first OS5 device. No matter how bad it is, I still have a high expectation of this one.

____
Nothing to kill or die for.
RE: Sony's OS5 NX handheld
bcombee @ 10/2/2002 11:48:39 AM #
A lot of developers have been busy updating their software already for OS 5 -- while few have been able to test directly on ARM-based hardware, PalmSource has distributed a simulator app for Windows that runs the OS 5 code built as a Win32 app along with a 68K emulator, and they've also made hardware available at PalmSource 2002 and at other events for developers to try their apps. I think the compatibility rate will be fairly OK -- especially if you're apps are coming from developers that are still active and who've been responsible about updating their code base.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Sony's OS5 NX handheld
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 1:35:55 PM #
My understanding is that as long as applications are compliant with the OS4 APIs they'll run on OS5/ARM without a whimper.

If you're interested in learning about OS5/ARM a good place to start is:
<http://www.palmos.com/dev/programs/palmosready/>


It will be interesting to see how much work is required by the developers of the "hi-res" and "hi-res+" apps that used Sony's proprietary display APIs, to meet the new OS5 display APIs.

The list for these apps is at:
<http://www.clieuk.co.uk/cphires.shtml>


- Dan

RE: Sony's OS5 NX handheld
cbulock @ 10/2/2002 1:54:37 PM #
I have been using the Palm OS 5 simuator and one thing that I noticed is that most hi-res apps, aren't hi-res anymore. I wasn't really that surprised because I figured the the API's woud be different. Some apps were hi-res though. I tried Monopoly, and it worked in hi-res mode just fine.

So, basicly, if you are used to hi-res apps, we might have to wait until the devlopers catch up and make OS5 compatible "double density" apps. But maybe Sony added something to make the old hi-res apps compatible on there devices. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

RE: Sony's OS5 NX handheld
OzziePalmDieHard @ 10/2/2002 8:42:02 PM #
Being a geekish type, i downloaded the simulator, and several things on my m130 wouldn't work in the sim.
They were mainly small games, and i read something about games needing to be updated for OS 5. Something about the hackish sort of way that had to be used to writwe to the screen or something.
I really don't know what i'm talking about ;)

Oh well, i'll continue praying for a lower end OS 5 device. FOr all the 13 yr old palmists with bull**** paper run jobs like me.

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

RE: Sony's OS5 NX handheld
myname @ 10/4/2002 3:20:49 AM #
due to the helplessly underpowered Dragonball CPU, most games codes are directly tied to the Dragonball CPU instructions (not the Palm API) to get the Max processing power.

Few things I like

myname @ 10/2/2002 3:11:43 AM #
The new UI interface, seems pretty cool, I'll buy a Clie just for that.
The Hotsync Cradle with a Speaker, a nice mini hifi system.


Now all I need to do is wait for a new less expensive Clie with no clamshell but with virtual grafitti :)

RE: Few things I like
asiayeah @ 10/2/2002 4:48:26 AM #
I think the new UI they are talking about is just a launcher program? If it's the case, that feature doesn't look so promising to me.

RE: Few things I like
myname @ 10/2/2002 6:16:57 AM #
Bascially it's just a launcher program, but I think it'll be better integrated with the jogdial button, and you can create shortcuts of programs at the sidebar by DRAG AND DROP, so it'll always show up at the left hand side of the UI ..

Not Upgradable to OS6

Fzara2000 @ 10/2/2002 3:23:21 AM #
rye, any info from Sony if this can be upgraded to OS6? Wow, how I would be so po'ed if this exact model comes out in less than half a year from now, with OS5, and sony doesnt allow any nx70 owners to upgrade.

"Now thats just PRIME!"
RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
digitaldope @ 10/2/2002 4:04:27 AM #
I don´t know why it should´t be upgradable.
You couldn´t upgrade the NR because it still had the dragonball cpu.
This one has the ARM and flashable ROM - so I don´t see any reason why it shouldn´t be upgadable to OS 6.

... broadcasting form Cologne, Germany
RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
Fzara2000 @ 10/2/2002 4:07:46 AM #
Sony is notoriously known for not releasing updates to their popular PDA's. SInce the NX70 has the hardware specs, I dont see why they wont here either.

"Now thats just PRIME!"
RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
Zuber @ 10/2/2002 5:10:39 AM #
The problem is, if they bring out an update for the existing device, they won't be "forcing" all the current users to buy the new version.

If Palm bring out an OS update for their OS5 devices, and Sony don't, then it will be obvious that it is purely due to marketing. Hopefully this would pressure on them to do so. Otherwise, those thinking of buying the new model might just buy a different PDA such as Palm instead.

Zuber


RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
jjsoh @ 10/2/2002 11:10:55 AM #
It's technically possible to upgrade since the ROM is flashable, but in reality, it probably will not happen. As some people have already mentioned, Sony would probably soon produce an updated model (with very minimal hardware changes, if any) with the new OS installed, than offer a simple OS upgrade for an existing device.

I'm thinking back to the PEG-N710C vs. PEG-N760C issue a while ago. Almost identical in hardware specifications (except form factor, I believe), only the N760c was released soon after the N710c touting better features, when the only apparent differences were the updated OS version and higher color support. It was a software problem, not a hardware one since the N710c was technically capable of 16-bit color, even though it only allowed for 12-bit.

Then an unofficial hack was released to the public which allowed you to upgrade on your own. But Sony caught on and finally offered an official upgrade (at a charge, of course) for $50 and also for a very limited time of 4 months. Not to mention you had to send your CLIÉ in to Sony. And this was the only time I've ever read/heard about Sony offering OS upgrades.

Still, I'm personally intrigued by their new OS5 offering with all the nice little features, but I'm going to pass based on form factor alone; not to mention there's no integrated BT. This will also probably be uncomfortable in my pants pocket (which is usually where my m505 is), and I carry that everywhere. Besides, that clam shell is just too bothersome for me.

However, I'll bite if there is a T665c with integrated BT and OS5. :)

Jim

RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
jjsoh @ 10/2/2002 11:54:16 AM #
: However, I'll bite if there is a T665c with integrated
: BT and OS5.

Doh! I meant the PEG-SJ30. Heh. :)

Jim

N710C > N760C upgrade
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 1:52:47 PM #
Call me on this if I'm mistaken, but I think that Sony offered the $50-send-your-device-in-for-flashing service before the unofficial DIY methods appeared on the web. (I think Sony's launch plans for the N-series were finalized before OS4 was ready.)

FWIW, I think that a win-win OS upgrade path would involve the following: the customer orders a (say) 16MB memory card that has an automatic flash upgrading app pre-installed. This kind of app has been perfected by our friends at HandEra. This way, there's no downtime for the customer and they end up with a spare card that they can erase and use as a RAM backup.

And yes, this method has already been recommended to some of the Licensees :)

- Dan

RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
ganoe @ 10/2/2002 2:53:50 PM #
> but I think that Sony offered the $50-send-your-device-in-for-flashing
> service before the unofficial DIY methods appeared on the web.

Not that it matters, but it was the other way around. The unofficial methods appeared first.

RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
sixty-four @ 10/2/2002 6:24:42 PM #
For those fretting over whether or not this PDA will be upgradeable to OS 6...WHO CARES.

A) An OS 5 handheld isn't even available to the public at this time. Why even speculate about OS 6? But since some people are worrying about OS 6, why not worry about OS 7 while you're at it? Or better yet, OS 8 and 9 too?

B) By the time OS 6 *is* available, the power-sucking NX will have run it's Li-ion battery through so many charging cycles that you'll be the proud owner of a PDA with the staying power of a nervous 18-year-old on prom night. In other words: time to get a new handheld.

RE: Not Upgradable to OS6
jjsoh @ 10/2/2002 11:45:59 PM #
: For those fretting over whether or not this PDA will
: be upgradeable to OS 6...WHO CARES.

Actually, I care, but only in respect to updates, not full upgrades. I want to be able to flash an updated OS with bug fixes and additional features, rather than purchasing a new model.

Jim

Seriously Dissapointed...

lcohen @ 10/2/2002 3:35:09 AM #
I was soooo hoping that the previews where mistaken and that sony was going to wow us again.. To me this seems to be a stopgap or just an effort to get an OS5 unit out.. it is sad that having such other great products in the clie line they come out with something mediocre. I think I'll wait untill a non clamshell OS5 unit comes out from sony or whomever that will replace my NR70.. this is just not worth it.. especially if it's bulkier which is my biggest gripe about the NR70... although I do love mine..


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RE: Seriously Dissapointed...
Fzara2000 @ 10/2/2002 4:08:39 AM #
How do you like your NR70? I was thinking of buying one now, since prices have decreased, but Im looking forward to either a new Sony, or the toshiba e330.


"Now thats just PRIME!"

RE: Seriously Dissapointed...
digitaldope @ 10/2/2002 4:11:18 AM #
I think the NR is still the best PDA around (and available in the US and Europe).
Yeah it´s sure bulkier than a Palm m5xx - but that´s the ONLY thing to complain about (and only if you don´t have deep pockets or cargopants.)

I really like the NX and would change it for my NR instantly - but since nobody would change with me I´ll stick with my NR till a slim non-keyboard, non-clamshell version comes out.

... broadcasting form Cologne, Germany

RE: Seriously Dissapointed...
Vexel9 @ 10/2/2002 4:44:19 AM #
Don't think this is Sony's answer to OS5. I think its amazing that it managed to introduce an OS5 unit before PALM. I have a feeling that SONY still has another OS5 unit up its sleeve and i wouldn't be surprised if it is announced before OCT 28.

RE: Seriously Dissapointed...
Zuber @ 10/2/2002 5:16:50 AM #
If they have got another device, I wouldn't be surprised, if they announced it just after Palm.

Zuber

Pricing on the NR70V and NR70...
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 1:58:31 PM #
I wonder what kind of deals will be available once the NX-series is in circulation! Hmmmmmm...... :)

RE: Seriously Dissapointed...
cbulock @ 10/2/2002 2:10:53 PM #
The NX series ooks great, but I think I'm gonna wait a few weeks and try to get a nice deal on an NR70

RE: Seriously Dissapointed...
lcohen @ 10/4/2002 6:04:47 AM #
I agree that potential users might want to just wait for price drops on the NR70V and wait till the 2nd gen of OS5 clie's come out... I don't see that there is much to offer with these new clie's as compared to the NR70 series.. I am very happy with mine, except for the bulk which this one only makes worse...

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I like it but what I would realy like...

::BPR:: @ 10/2/2002 4:04:41 AM #
I don't care to much for a keyboard or the chunky CF slot. A nice slim clie with the virtualgraffity screen, camera and built in bluetooth. Now thats what I woud like :)
RE: I like it but what I would realy like...
digitaldope @ 10/2/2002 4:18:14 AM #
Amen !!!

... broadcasting form Cologne, Germany
RE: I like it but what I would realy like...
lcohen @ 10/2/2002 6:18:35 AM #
Have a non camera version for me.. and I am all there.. although 32 or 64 MB would be great.. c'mon... all ppc's have those specs why can't sony be the first with a 32 mb palm.... the processor and the O/S can handle it....

RE: I like it but what I would realy like...
cyn @ 10/2/2002 9:24:54 AM #
There is a non camera version :)

it's the less expensive model, chiming in at $100 less. NX60 I believe

RE: I like it but what I would realy like...
lcohen @ 10/4/2002 6:08:41 AM #
cyn, a non clamshell is what we are talking about.. a nice sled design with VG adn the buttons on the same side as the screen!

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300 minutes with the backlight off?

somas1 @ 10/2/2002 7:34:20 AM #
Didn't we read a whole lot of crap that claimed that OS5 devices would use much less battery power than PPC devices? Didn't we read a whole lot of crap about how xscale processors were much more efficient than strongarm processors? What is going on? There are a lot of apologists saying stuff like you can't expect mp3 playback and mpeg recording without sacrifices and while I agree to some extent, if I need to use this clie as an organizer (ie contact manager, datebook, memobook, to do list) will it still only survive for 2 hours during a real work day? I can accept this unit won't have much battery life when using wifi or when encoding mpegs, but I would not use those functions if I was not near a power source. I am disgusted by this unit if it will only allow me to take notes and schedule meetings for 2 hours before needing a recharge.
BTW my Clie 760 gave me 11 hours of MP3 playback when it was new and still gives me 6+hours today. Why the hell can't this clie match a model more than a year old? I find it hard to believe Sony's marketing people neglected to tell us this unit will last longer when used as an organizer or with the backlight off if that was the case.

RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
Gekko @ 10/2/2002 3:02:05 PM #
Good point. I was really hoping for an m525 for OS5 but instead they give me the choice between this and the Dungsten. I'm keeping my m515 at this point.
RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
adamrichman @ 10/2/2002 7:01:33 PM #
lol

RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
iebnn @ 10/2/2002 8:51:02 PM #
300 mins != 2 hours

RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
useybird @ 10/2/2002 11:24:34 PM #
actually 300 minutes is 5 hours

-------------
Burning Desire: The want or need for something great.
Burning THE Zire: A fun recreational activity involving setting Palm's new crappy handheld ablaze.
RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
newton @ 10/3/2002 12:21:01 AM #
5 hrs with backlight off

4 hrs mp3 with backlight off

2.5 hrs mp3 with backlight on

1 hr 20 min with backlight mp3 and WIFI on.



RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
hotpaw4 @ 10/3/2002 12:35:33 AM #
> 1 hr 20 min with backlight mp3 and WIFI on.

And don't forget temperature. Li-ion battery life is
significantly shorter if it's below normal room
temperature (e.g. outdoors on a cold night).

RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
Strider_mt2k @ 10/3/2002 6:11:14 AM #
None of you are recognizing that it's battery life is almost unlimited if it's left off.

strider_mt2k@yahoo.com
RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
adamrichman @ 10/3/2002 6:29:29 PM #
lol

RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
iebnn @ 10/3/2002 8:04:17 PM #
I think he means that you don't sit down and use it for the entire day, you use it at short intervals througout the day.

RE: 300 minutes with the backlight off?
jjsoh @ 10/4/2002 11:50:58 AM #
: 1 hr 20 min with backlight mp3 and WIFI on.

If these numbers are actual, then that is shorter than my average commute to work! LOL! Not that I'd be using WiFi in such a scenario, but in perspective, that's incredibly short. ;)

Jim

I will wait for the 2nd or 3rd Gen.

dickpayne @ 10/2/2002 8:00:30 AM #
I am very glad I have my nr70/v. It is the top of the line for os4 devices and the last of the generation. I tend not to update my palm until a couple of generations have come by. I will wait for 64+ mb of ram and battery life that is at least twice as good before I upgrade. These new devices look very good but patience will yield a device that is far more attractive.

CF Slot: there's still a glimer of hope in the dark!

euroclie @ 10/2/2002 8:00:09 AM #
Hi all,

This is a quote from Sony Japan website, the part about the NX70V CF slot compatible cards lists the following cards:
(http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-NX70V/spec.html)

IIEE802.11b:

Sony PEGA-WL100 (the often mentionned wifi CF card)

PHS:
NTT : P-in M@ster and P-in Comp@ct CF cards
DDI : C@rd H"64 and Air H" CF cards

Analog Modems:
TDK DF56CF
iTAX-56K
CF56R-BJ

For those of us living outside of Japan, PHS is one of the mobile phone standards widely used for data communications, something a bit like GPRS, but which has been available there for a while.

All in all, it's not just the Sony Wifi CF card that works in this slot, so we certainly can expect other PDA accessories manufacturers to release CF cards (or maybe just PalmOS drivers for existing CF cards) for the NX70...

Keep your fingers crossed! ;-)


Patrick Robbe
http://euroclie.free.fr

RE: CF Slot: there's still a glimer of hope in the dark!
RSC @ 10/2/2002 2:32:49 PM #
I wouldn't hold my breath, though. I doubt the NX series will have enough market share for CF card developers to spend the considerable resources needed to deal with writing a driver (esp. if Sony isn't willing to help them out). Compare to the limited success Handspring or HandEra has had with their expansion devices, and that's with dedicated engineering support and greater market share (at least the Visor) than the NX series is likely to have (the biggest reason being that there will be a new model/series from Sony way too soon, and developers aren't going to be able to count on it being backwards-compatible with what they are building, so they won't hitch their wagon to a potentially short-lived NX horse)

RE: CF Slot: there's still a glimer of hope in the dark!
ganoe @ 10/2/2002 3:04:00 PM #
It's one thing to say write a device driver for Linux, where you know how the bus works that a device is connecting to, and where there are standard mechanisms for plugging different types of device drivers into the OS. It's a whole other story to try to do that on a device where you don't know how the slot is connected to the device, and most of the mechanisms for adding a device driver are only available to licensees (not any typical developer) last I checked.

It isn't impossible, but you would have to do some serious reverse engineering or create one major hack to get it to work.

If Sony wanted their slot to work for memory and other CF cards, they could do it themselves. They don't want it to work that way, and that is what we get. I'm sure somebody else will release a Palm OS device with a CF slot.

RE: CF Slot: there's still a glimer of hope in the dark!
Mr PC @ 10/2/2002 5:52:27 PM #
Yes There is

Just read this at PDAGeek

http://www.geek.com/pdageek/features/pegnx70v/index.htm

I asked about the wireless slot (which takes CF cards). It's definitely Sony card-ready, but you can use other cards. It's NOT proprietary, okay? The Sony people told me that the Sony card will definitely work out of the box (read: others will work, but you'll probably have to diddle around a bit to make them.) I guess we'll have to do some experiments to test this, now won't we?


If this is true I will buy one.

RE: CF Slot: there's still a glimer of hope in the dark!
ganoe @ 10/2/2002 10:54:33 PM #
I think whoever would read, "The Sony people told me that the Sony card will definitely work out of the box" as "others will work, but you'll probably have to diddle around a bit to make them" has no idea what they are talking about. Now maybe the person who wrote that knows something more than what he said, but if he's somehow reading "the Sony card will definitely work out of the box" as it'll work with other cards ... well that just doesn't make any sense at all.

RE: CF Slot: there's still a glimer of hope in the dark!
skccs @ 10/3/2002 5:08:21 AM #
I found different CF-Bluetooth-Cards on expansys.com. But all the descriptions say only drivers for pocket-pc or windows (together with an pc-card-adapter for notebooks).

I think ED should do some test's in his coming rewiev of the nx70.

Europe's Sony Websites don't show the new model :-(

Christian Stocker

Minimum Model

Timothy Rapson @ 10/2/2002 8:29:45 AM #
I am stunned.

Sony has made the least innovative model of their whole Clie history. This is the absolutley least changed OS 5 they could possibly have produced.

They added ARM, recording, and CF WiFi to the NR70V. That is not much change for a Sony.

That having been said, this is great for me. The size seems a lot thicker by the bare measurments, but that increase from 6.7 inches to 9.4 inches is only for he little point in the back where the WiFi slot is. The rest of the body is exactly as the current model. The fact that they kept Virual Graffitti and Half VGA means that it will be easier for developers to support this format on my NR as well as this NX. I believe it was a look at this model that caused FITALY to decide to support HiRes+ and that is good for me.

The price is right on.

The downfalls are memory (16 meg seems cheap), battery life (I would guess you will surf for less than 1 hour if you put and WiFi card in this and use it), weight (even heavier and perhaps the heaviest PDA sold in the US) and the "Hunchback of Notre Palm" look.

I am not sure why Sony didn't offer three models. One with WiFi, camera, and all the rest, one without WiFi (and the carbuncle slot), and one without camera or slot. Maybe they will add that third model later. You know they will offer something else by Christmas. Sony always does.

RE: Minimum Model
ganoe @ 10/2/2002 2:57:14 PM #
> Sony has made the least innovative model of their whole Clie history.

I don't see how this is any less innovative than the dozen models (other than the NR series) that followed the N710C with minimal change in features.


RE: Minimum Model
MaryJoS @ 10/2/2002 3:20:50 PM #
Or for that matter, most of the entire line of Palms

RE: Minimum Model
rldunn @ 10/2/2002 3:29:48 PM #
How far have we come in a short time when a PDA that has two external memory slots, supports wireless, contains a camera and camcorder, a keyboard, virtual graffiti, and an MP3 player is considered to be not innovative.

RE: Minimum Model
RSC @ 10/2/2002 5:05:10 PM #
>How far have we come in a short time when a PDA that
>has two external memory slots, supports wireless...

Actually, it's ONE external memory slot, and one slot that we only know for sure will support Sony's Wi-Fi card, and possibly other CF modems, but have no indication that it can use regular CF memory cards...

RE: Minimum Model
HandyMan @ 10/2/2002 5:26:50 PM #
Come on, the camera and video capabities are a nice improvement.

Sure it would've been better if:
1 - the CF slot was generic and worked for memory devices
2 - the keyboard was "fixed"
3 - had built-in Bluetooth
4 - had better battery life and/or removable battery

You know they're going to release a new one in 6 months or less. OS6 probably won't be ready by then, so what improves are they going to make?

NX80V -- expect the following
- running OS5 5.x
- possibly faster Xscale CPU
- higher res video
- possibly removable battery
- maybe 32MB RAM
- maybe built-in Bluetooth

But that's it! Don't expect too much. If you look at Sony's strategy for their other products, it's usually not a technical reason for having (or lack of) this feature or that feature. It's mostly a marketting decision.


RE: Minimum Model
ganoe @ 10/2/2002 5:29:10 PM #
> How far have we come in a short time when a PDA that has two external
> memory slots, supports wireless, contains a camera and camcorder, a keyboard,
> virtual graffiti, and an MP3 player is considered to be not innovative.

Sharp had all that for a Zaurus model back in the spring. I'm not sure if it was released, since it doesn't sell in the US.

RE: Minimum Model
rldunn @ 10/3/2002 12:41:42 PM #
I think you're missing my point. My point was that a year ago, if you described the specs for the NX and someone said that it didn't sound innovative, can you imagine how dumbfounded you would have been?!? This model is only not innovative because so much innovation has been done in the past year. If we continued at this pace, next year's model will probably contain a TV, virtual monitor, full-size foldout keyboard, AM/FM/XM radio, and a universal learning remote control. Of course, it would have a battery life of 10 minutes :)

RE: Minimum Model
lcohen @ 10/4/2002 6:16:08 AM #
What?? No sirrius digital radio support or built in printer... CHEAP

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RE: Minimum Model
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:39:42 PM #
That makes it cheap?

seems kind of shallow.

Battery Life & NX70V on USA Sony Site

jgb9348 @ 10/2/2002 8:33:50 AM #
While the battery life of this handheld has grabbed most of the attention, I think it is the most influential point when considering to buy this pda. Just imagine 300 Hours (as Sony suggests), which turns into probably closer to 200 with the Backlight on (most people will do this, of course). Then in the ad, which is probably a pretty high-average: 'Battery life with using LAN CARD - 2.5 hours'. Assuming* that they mean using the handheld with the Wireless Lan card, with the backlight OFF, the PDA will likely only get around 2 hours of usage. No offense to the battery makers or suppliers, and knowing that we are talking about completely different technologies, but my notebook will work with Wi-Fi for over 3.5 hours with the screen at complete brightness. This is powering 1024x768 pixels as well......so its just a big hole in the quality of the item. Sony has been very innovative, but the real-world lifespan and usability of this device drops TREMENDOUSLY!

By the way, the NX70V is on the US Sony Site:

http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9684x9744x10081&itemid=53411

-jeremy

RE: Battery Life & NX70V on USA Sony Site
Zuber @ 10/2/2002 8:51:03 AM #
If I can get 200 hours battery life, I'm buying it the moment it hits the streets ;)

Zuber

Too much concern about NX battery life?
jdmass @ 10/2/2002 10:30:02 AM #
I think that that people may be blowing the NX battery life issue out of proportion.

The normal battery life rating for the NX70V is EXACTLY the same as the the NR70V:

(From the NR70V operating guide)

"Battery Life
10 Days*
*Based on average of 30 min. use of PIMs per day with backlight off. The battery lifespan varies depending on the temperature and the conditions of use."

While it is not great, it is quite adequate.

As a matter of fact, you may want to check out the link below from Sony support called "How to test the battery life of a Sony Clie handheld".

http://sawebp1.sel.sony.com/scripts/web_access.cgi?FUNC=SOLUTION_DETAIL&SOL_ID=1670005259

They basically test running a movie continuously on a fully charged PDA, until the battery dies. Their claim for ALL color Clies is only 3-4 hours of continuous operation.


RE: Battery Life & NX70V on USA Sony Site
Zuber @ 10/2/2002 11:10:25 AM #
Sounds promising, now if someone could confirm that I can use a cheap (not Sony) bluetooth card with this thing, I would start to feel alot better.

Zuber

RE: Battery Life & NX70V on USA Sony Site
Altema @ 10/2/2002 1:37:52 PM #
"They basically test running a movie continuously on a fully charged PDA, until the battery dies. Their claim for ALL color Clies is only 3-4 hours of continuous operation."

Wish they had given more specifics, like sidelights on or off, volume setting, etc, as those can have a huge effect on life.

Casio has a claim that one of their organzers has a battery life of 180 hours. But when you read the fine print, they tell you that this is only when the device is showing the contact list and you don't touch any buttons. Yeah, right! This actually means it can keep the LCD on for 180 hours and nothing else.

RE: Battery Life & NX70V on USA Sony Site
somas1 @ 10/2/2002 4:10:55 PM #
" I think that that people may be blowing the NX battery life issue out of proportion.

The normal battery life rating for the NX70V is EXACTLY the same as the the NR70V:

(From the NR70V operating guide)

"Battery Life
10 Days*
*Based on average of 30 min. use of PIMs per day with backlight off. The battery lifespan varies depending on the temperature and the conditions of use."

While it is not great, it is quite adequate.

Thank you. This was very helpful. My clie N760 only lasts 4-5 hours now since its battery is tapped. I guess The NX series is something I can live with. What I don't understand is why the NX series can't match the N series when playing mp3s without the backlight. Is the 200 Mhz processor still sucking up juice?

RE: Battery Life & NX70V on USA Sony Site
jjsoh @ 10/4/2002 12:20:39 PM #
: "Battery Life
: 10 Days*
: *Based on average of 30 min. use of PIMs per day with
: backlight off. The battery lifespan varies depending on
: the temperature and the conditions of use."
:
: While it is not great, it is quite adequate.

I may have to agree that based on the supplied numbers alone, the battery life is somewhat adequate. However, in my opinion, real world scenarios are a much better measure of battery life than ones based on 30 minute use of only PIMs per day with backlight off, as they stated.

With all the features that this model has, it doesn't seem to be geared towards the casual user, but a high-end one. Which is confusing because the high-end user would probably utilize the additional features more, especially for a greater length than 30 minutes/day. What kind of high-end user would purchase this model just for PIM and with backlight off? And I seriously doubt that a casual user would purchase this model just for regular PIM alone, unless they love Sony and/or have money to burn.

I would like to see numbers based on occasional mp3 playback, maybe a picture taken or two, with possibly a recorded voice message here and there, as well as PIM functions within a 30 minute use period per day with backlight on. I doubt that the end result will amount to 10 days.

Also, I always include the 'backlight on' option because I'm sure 80-90% of the time (if not 100% for models with rechargeable batteries), we all use the backlight, no?

Jim

RE: Battery Life & NX70V on USA Sony Site
x_X_x @ 10/4/2002 5:10:21 PM #
OMG...I am preordering one right now!! this is the mack daddy of all PDAs....HOLY S**T this biotch is in my pocket the day it hits sonys web site

[font=Comic Sans MS]P.E.T.A. ~~ People for the Eating of Tasty Animals[/font=Comic Sans MS]

Speaker Cradle

jgb9348 @ 10/2/2002 8:41:06 AM #
Wow....this is an odd one:

$99 for a speaker cradle for the NX70V Series!

My question is: Couldn't you just play your audio through the speaker on the PDA while it is in the cradle and save a bunch of money (Since no power will be expelled when the cradle is charging), or is the volume on the speakers very limited on the NX (or NR) series? It just seems like a fair amount of money for the cradle with just a stupid speaker on the front.

http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9684x9744x10081&itemid=53411

-jeremy

RE: Speaker Cradle
markgm @ 10/2/2002 9:20:06 AM #
I was just going to comment on that! That seems like an odd item considering if I am charging on my cradle, I am by my computer, which hopefully has better speakers than this base! It is a cute idea, but doesn't look as elegant as the cradle the nr70v's have.

RE: Speaker Cradle
PalmAddict @ 10/2/2002 9:44:29 AM #
It probably would be useful to the executive that has been recording voice notes all day (all 3 hours of it) and wanted to review what s/he had recorded without downloading them to the desktop and then playing them through the computer. This could be useful, but they are promoting the less likely purpose.

It also will likely work with the computer off so that you don't need to boot to listen and charge....

-

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." - George Gobol.

RE: Speaker Cradle
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 2:01:04 PM #
I'd pick one up for my bedside table - world's coolest alarm clock! :)
RE: Speaker Cradle
cbulock @ 10/3/2002 1:29:44 AM #
$99 is just to much money for that. You could pick up some cheap powered speakers and plug them into the headphone jack. Those are probably $20-$30. If the cradle was in the $40-$60 range, then it might be reasonable.

RE: Speaker Cradle
Palm_Otaku @ 10/3/2002 4:21:27 AM #
*poof* <-- sound of Palm_Otaku's "money-is-no-object" dream disappearing

Good point. Thanks for the reality check!

Total Garbage

UGlee @ 10/2/2002 9:02:12 AM #
Everybody knows which function should be added to a handheld device. Only qualified designer knows which function should be taken out.

NX series is going astray in the handheld forest. It reminds me of the handheld in newton era - large, chunky, integrated with too many interfaces that are not necessary for a handheld.

Keyboard or soft graffiti, either is OK but not both. CF or MS, the same problem.

The battery life is really a shame. Using cpu to decode mp3 file drains too much battery, and it also slow the speed of other application, say, the browser or ebook reader, dramatically. For multimedia purpose only, DSP + CPU is a much better solution in both encoding/decoding speed and power-saving, as NR70 does. For migration to OS5 which support arm architecture only, Dragon ball MX1 or OMAP are better than XScale, since they embedded multimedia instruction set or DSP.

What is the main benefit of OS5 for common users? Speed? No. The most important features of OS5 for common user is its multi-task capabilities, which are really essential for the implementation of network protocols and connections. NX provided no built-in connection capabilities. Add-on Wifi are expensive and power-consuming. Add-on bluetooth are expensive and you much remove your memory card, which may stores a large dictionary database, when you are surfing the web. No capabilities to connect to internet through mobile networks, gsm or cdma, as veld and treo do. Such design obliterate the greatest benefit of OS5 over OS4 device.

We need small handheld with long battery life and easy/powersaving/cheap connection to Internet. NX made mistakes in every aspects.


RE: Total Garbage
jgb9348 @ 10/2/2002 10:57:03 AM #
I agree completely. One of the reasons Palm was so much of a success early on against Windows CE and even PocketPC was the fact that Palm OS devices were simple. Just look at the success of the Palm V and the Palm m500 series for proof. What did they offer? Everything a normal PDA user wanted, with no excessive media, pricing, drain on battery, etc. With the advent of removable media coming on the Palm m500 series, Palm users got happy, and when companies started revealing and releasing SDIO devices...the market got increasingly bigger for the M125 and higher devices. When I purchase my first (maybe only) PalmOS 5.0 device, I will buy the pda because it will do almost everything (if not everything) that I need it to do, out of the box. The Palm Tungsten T will connect to my mobile phone out of the box, but the Sony NX series won't connect to my Wireless Lan out of the box. There are a lot of things going in favour of Sony, but the truth is, most users just want simplicity.

-jeremy

Westcoast USA Dock Strikes and NX deliveries ...

Token User @ 10/2/2002 10:25:54 AM #
I hope that the new models have cleared the docks and are waiting in a warehouse somewhere, or there are going to be a lot of sad kddies out there when they realise Santa hasn't left them a new Clie in their stocking on Christmas day.

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~
RE: Westcoast USA Dock Strikes and NX deliveries ...
M3wThr33 @ 10/2/2002 2:36:20 PM #
Well, if I know kids, if they DO get this thing when they wake at the crack of dawn, they'll probably hotsync one to send some games and play those all day right? So say... 10Am to... 10pm, 12 hours would require close to 3 recharges(Timmy wants his backlight) and that doesn't even include recharge time and if his daddy got a Wi-Fi card(Making it 6 recharges) so he can go out to the park and chat with his friends.

What's the recharge rate on this anyhow?

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

RE: Westcoast USA Dock Strikes and NX deliveries ...
Nebrie @ 10/2/2002 2:38:25 PM #
Nope. They will be air freighted. When you are shipping large quantities of products the size of or smaller than a laptop computer, the cost difference between shipping by air and by sea is very small. It will not make sense for sony to ship by sea right now.
RE: Westcoast USA Dock Strikes and NX deliveries ...
Kesh @ 10/2/2002 4:18:19 PM #
That's true. And a lot of this freight comes right through my town: Anchorage, AK. Seems that the Seattle-Anchorage-Tokyo route (and vice-versa) is the quickest way to move product of this type, for the best price. Needless to say, over 80% of our air traffic at the international airport is cargo. :)

Native OS5 support for 320x480?

abischof @ 10/2/2002 10:30:32 AM #
Will OS5 natively support 320x480, or will applications (once again) have to be rewritten to support this additional resolution?

RE: Native OS5 support for 320x480?
UGlee @ 10/2/2002 10:39:22 AM #
No, developper should rewritten their applications to specially support the 320x480 resolution.

59,800 YEN == 485 USD??

Foxer @ 10/2/2002 11:45:51 AM #
Ok, I don't really speak japanese, but it seems to me from the site that the NX70v is selling at 59,800 yen, which is only $485 US. Are things usually cheaper in japan, or am I just totally wrong here? I guess I just want it to be better priced, although, I think I'll shell out the 600 when it gets here.
I am pretty escited for this, although, like many others, the battery life is a concern for me. Does anyone have any experience with the NV70? How is the life on that one. Wireless isn't a big deal for me, so I don't care much about the lack of it, although, I do hope that the CF slot can be used with memory. That would be nice for MP3's, although, with such a short battery life, it wouldn't matter a whole lot.
Now, on an unrelated subject, does anyone know if you can play ogg files on it, or just mp3's? It is even possible to devolop such a thing. Just my thoughts.
RE: 59,800 YEN == 485 USD??
speed-angel @ 10/2/2002 2:32:48 PM #
If you actually compare all the launch prices of CLIEs (especially the first N and T series) you'd find that they are cheaper to buy in Japan than in the U.S. and more colors to choose from.

You'd have to ask Sony why they do this, but my feeling is that 1) In the US people are willing to pay more and that 2) it takes some extra effort to have them in English.

RE: 59,800 YEN == 485 USD??
cbulock @ 10/3/2002 1:18:25 AM #
From what I read about the nr70, that has a decoder chip for mp3 because the dragonball isn't fast enough to decode mp3 or ogg. But the nx70 is probably a different story. I don't know if it has a seperate chip to do the mp3 because os5 is multitasking so it doesn't really require it and the processor is fast enough to decode it. So i imagine that an application could be written to take advantage of the faster processor to decode ogg files.

RE: 59,800 YEN == 485 USD??
fulmer @ 10/3/2002 2:07:11 AM #
I live in Japan, and 60,000 yen seems like $600 to me. The exchange rate makes it $485, but since the cost of living is different, things dont really work out to be equal....
RE: 59,800 YEN == 485 USD??
formerlyanon @ 10/3/2002 1:53:29 PM #
yeah well living in the UK palmtops cost about £50-£30 more than converted from the US prices
m105 £100 $130 UK
m105 £70 $100 US

__________________________________________________________________
My palm III was 50p from a charity shop, and introduced me to pdas

Phone instead of Wi-fi

clompy @ 10/2/2002 2:02:33 PM #
I would have preferred using the extra bulk for mobile phone function instead of wireless LAN. Wonder how many think the same. Too bad the mic and speaker are on opposite sides. Sony could have (?) offered a CF card that enabled the NX to be used as a mobile phone.

RE: Phone instead of Wi-fi
KRamsauer @ 10/2/2002 2:13:46 PM #
Dont' know if you want a phone in such a package. With the battery issues as they are, it might be useless. Moreover, I get weird looks with my Treo as a phone. Holding that beast up would probably get you arrested for terrorism or something. It just doesn't look normal.

RE: Phone instead of Wi-fi
Palm_Otaku @ 10/2/2002 2:14:24 PM #
I wonder if there is some kind of non-competition agreement between the Clie group and the Sony-Ericsson group?

I wouldn't be surprised to see data-only packet data CF cards (i.e. GPRS, 1xRTT) coming to market based on the availability of that kind of product for the Japanese PHS networks...

- Dan

RE: Phone instead of Wi-fi
clompy @ 10/2/2002 2:19:28 PM #
I really wouldn't mind holding up such a beast to my ear if it saved me from carrying two things all the time. Besides the NX series is long enough to be used as a phone without having to be opened up. Anyways, don't think it'll happen anytime soon (or ever) and have given up hope on Clies having phone function.

pleasant smell specifications

MobiProf @ 10/2/2002 2:37:33 PM #

Konnichiwa,

The following specs are not as funny as those posted by Red October, but they do have the not insignificant virtue of being well-translated:

"Hardware Specifications

Model
PEG-NX70V

OS
Palm OS® software v. 5.0*1

On-board CPU
200 MHz

Memory
16 MB RAM*6
16 MB (ROM)

Interface*7
USB (cradle), Infrared (IrDA 1.2), Memory Stick slot*2, Remote Commander LED*4, Communication Slot (CF Type II)*3

Display
TFT color display with back lights
320 x 480 dots
65,536 colors

Dimensions
5 1/2 (H) x 2 7/8 (W) x 11/16 (D) inches

Weight
Approx. 8 oz. (including stylus)

Power Supply
Output DC 5.2V
Input: AC100-240V

Battery
Lithium-ion polymer rechargeable battery (internal)

System Requirements

OS
Windows® 98 Second Edition, Windows® Millennium Edition, Windows® 2000 Professional, Windows® XP Home Edition, Windows® XP Professional

CPU
Pentium® II 400 MHz or faster
(Pentium® III 500 MHz or faster is recommended)

Memory
96 MB RAM minimum
(128 MB or more is recommended. 256 MB or more is recommended with Windows® XP.)

Display
800 x 600 dots or higher
High color or better

Hard Disk Space
200 MB minimum (350 MB or more is recommended)*

Peripherals
CD-ROM drive
USB port
Mouse or similar pointing device

USB Port

Bundled Software

Palm™ Organizer Applications
Address Book
Date Book
To Do List
Memo Pad
Card Info
Mail
Calculator
Security
HotSync
Palm™ Desktop v. 4.0.1 (for PC)

Sony Software
Audio Player
CLIÉ™ Album
CLIÉ™ Camera
CLIÉ™ Mail
CLIÉ™ Memo
CLIÉ™ Paint
CLIÉ™ Remote Commander
CLIÉ™ Viewer
Flash Player 5
Image Converter v.1.0 (for PC)
Memory Stick Backup
Memory Stick Export v.1.1 (for PC)
Memory Stick Files
Memory Stick Import
Movie Player
Movie Recorder
PictureGear™ Studio (for PC)
PhotoStand
Photo Editor
SonicStage™ LE v.1.5 (for PC)
Sound Converter v.1.0 (for PC)
Sound Utility
Voice Recorder
World Alarm Clock

Value-added Software

Handheld Applications
Acid Freecell (Red Mercury)†
Amy Reiley’s Pocket Vineyard™ (neohand)†
Amy Reiley’s Pocket Gourmet™ (neohand)†
BalanceLog™ (HealtheTech, Inc)†
Bump Attack™ Pinball (iambic)†
Contacts Pro (MobiMate)†
Documents To Go® - Standard Edition (DataViz, Inc.)
MobiPocket Reader (Franklin® Electronic Publishers)
NetFront
PowerOne™ Finance (Infinity Softworks)†
Presenter-to-Go™ (MARGI)†
StreetFinder® Express (Rand McNally)
Vindigo® (Vindigo)†
WorldMate (MobiMate)†

PC Desktop Software
Acrobat™ Reader v. 5.0 (Adobe Systems, Inc.)
Intellisync™ Lite v. 4.0 (Pumatech, Inc.)
QuickTime™ v. 5.0.2 (Apple Computer, Inc.)

†Trial version software

Package Contents
CLIÉ handheld
USB cradle (for HotSync® operation)
Stylus
AC Adapter
Stereo headphones
Remote controller
Plug adapter
Plug adapter attachment
Hand strap
Installation CD-ROM
Read This First
Add-on Application Guide
End User License Agreement
Graffiti® sticker
Limited Warranty Statement

Optional Accessories
Wireless LAN card: PEGA-WL100
Speaker cradle: PEGA-SPC100K
Carrying case: PEGA-CA61
Carrying case: PEGA-CA80
USB cradle: PEGA-UC75K
3 stylus pack: PEGA-ST60
AC adapter: PEGA-AC10
HotSync® cable: PEGA-HS10
Battery adapter: PEGA-BC10
Car battery adapter: PEGA-DC10
Memory Stick® media (16, 32, 64, 128 MB capacities)

*Additional 100 MB or more needed for installing CD database with SonicStage application. May require additional hard disk space depending on size of audio files recorded. Additional 100 MB or more is needed for printing with PictureGear Studio application.

*1 Some 3rd party software and devices may currently not be compatible or have limited functionality with this model. Please confirm with third party vendor or manufacturer for compatibility.
*2 Memory Stick media is necessary to store audio and video content. Memory Stick media sold separately. Compatible with Magic Gate Memory Stick (sold separately).
*3 Compatible with Sony’s wireless LAN card (PEGA-WL100) only. PEGA-WL100 sold separately.
*4 This feature may not support certain manufacturers or devices.
*5 Software functionality provided by Documents To Go® Standard Edition, a product of DataViz, Inc.
*6 Actual available space is 15 MB. (A portion is used for data management functions)
*7 Includes serial interface

Specifications and features are subject to change without notice."

The above information has of course been cut and pasted from www.sonystyle.com, where you can now view full English information, prices, accessories and place your pre-order. $599 for the NX70V.

- MobiProf

16MB RAM? Why so little?

EdH @ 10/2/2002 5:34:31 PM #
Is the 16MB just a decision by Sony or is this all the PACE can address? I know OS5 can address more.

Also, the 16MB ROM. Is that full or can some of it be used by the user as flash storage? It definitely seems Sony is ready for an upgrade with OS6 - except for the low RAM.

RE: 16MB RAM? Why so little?
Fly-By-Night @ 10/4/2002 12:11:12 PM #
Everyone needs to remember that Palm OS uses XIP (execute in place) technology, unlike PocketPC. Basically, this means that since your program (and data) is in RAM already, Palm OS just runs it there. Pocket PC meanwhile divides up RAM much like the division between RAM and a hard disc (oops, just given myself away as ENglish there!) on your desktop. A Pocket PC has the available RAM divided into 'storage RAM' and 'active RAM'. The storage RAM is organised to mimic a hard disc-like file system, and programs and data are stored as desktop-like files in a directory hierarchy. When a program is run, it is first copied from storage RAM to active RAM, then run, mimicking the setup of a desktop system (that's why for many tasks, a 33MHz Palm can be just as fast as a 206MHz Pocket PC; the speed advantage of the faster processor is all wasted in overhead needlessly copying data back and forth). So, if you have a 2Mb program on your Palm, that's all the space you need. On a PocketPC you need your 2Mb storage RAM, *and* 2Mb free active RAM just to run the thing (and we wonder why PPC is so chunky!).

Add this to the fact that much better support for running apps (and databases) from Memory Stick is included with OS5, and I personally can't see a problem (also remember that as MS is Flash type memory, your precious -- and I think with an NX Clie it will be quite precious -- battery is not drained just storing stuff).

Anyway, hope that clears up a few things. Bye..

Fly By Night



The CF slot ?

andyinboca @ 10/2/2002 6:53:17 PM #
Sony says that this is for wireless, but on their website it talks about it being a type II compact flash slot. What I think would be really cool and would probably force my buying decission was if I could load movies on a high capacity CF card or IBM microdrive. 128mb memory stick is not big enough. Does anyone know if you can run video off the CFG card slot and not just the memopry stick ??

RE: The CF slot ?
mentalsrule @ 10/2/2002 8:11:35 PM #
Sorry but it is only for the wireless CF card by sony.



____________________
Roses are red, violets are blue, I am schizophrenic and so am I
http://optyx.dyndns.org

RE: The CF slot ?
coolchan @ 10/3/2002 2:48:27 PM #
Read the news on Clie Planet! http://www.clieuk.co.uk/index.shtml


"I asked about the wireless slot (which takes CF cards). It's definitely Sony card-ready, but you can use other cards. It's NOT proprietary, okay? The Sony people told me that the Sony card will definitely work out of the box (read: others will work, but you'll probably have to diddle around a bit to make them.)"

Surely someone will develop a program to access other CF cards.

RE: The CF slot ?
eboychik @ 10/4/2002 4:15:24 PM #
Please excuse my ignorance, but how do you connect to the web using the Wireless CF card? Do you need a web connection ora cell phone account? I'm not sure how this works.

RE: The CF slot ?
Kesh @ 10/5/2002 12:42:48 AM #
A wireless card lets you connect to a wireless 'base station' that's either connected to your high-speed Internet connection (cable, DSL, etc.) or to your company's network. You can then browse the web wirelessly through that.

No matter how you b*tch...

mrnoface @ 10/2/2002 8:00:02 PM #
I can guarantee that Sony will prevail in the handheld arena. Think about Jornada 568 and Ipaq 3850: which is better? Advanced users prefer 568 to 3850 but most people don't buy 568 since HP Compaq discontinued Jornada product line. If Jornada selled more, the situation might be different. But Ipaq won in the long run.

I don't like the form factor of NR and NX series - Both are too chunky for my preference. But potential buyers don't give a d_mn about other things: they like Sony, 200MHz XScale processor, 30MP digital camera, and its slick design. So please stop b*tching: just step back and watch what happens. Believe me, Sony will win.


Yeh, Seung Chul
-----------------------
Technical Writer / Serious Skier / Thigh-burning Inline Skater
http://noface.uu.st

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
OzziePalmDieHard @ 10/2/2002 9:03:32 PM #
"I can guarantee that Sony will prevail in the handheld arena. Think about Jornada 568 and Ipaq 3850: which is better? Advanced users prefer 568 to 3850 but most people don't buy 568 since HP Compaq discontinued Jornada product line. If Jornada selled more, the situation might be different. But Ipaq won in the long run.

I don't like the form factor of NR and NX series - Both are too chunky for my preference. But potential buyers don't give a d_mn about other things: they like Sony, 200MHz XScale processor, 30MP digital camera, and its slick design. So please stop b*tching: just step back and watch what happens. Believe me, Sony will win."


Well i don't see the relevance of the first paragraph to anything... Of course the Ipaq won, because the jornada is no longer made. Its hard to compete when you don't exist anymore.

Palm still outsells Sony by multiple amounts, that is not biased, that is a cold hard fact. Potential buyers generally don't care about specs. They want an organiser. Otherwise they are filfthy rich and buy a nice shiny top - of - the - line NR70v.

Most people start with a basic model, and work up to a high end model, because they get hooked on the Palm. God knows I did, my m130 pales in sicgnificance up against the NX70, regardless of how much my friends worship my m130.

You seem to assume that YOU are the market. Let me tell you a secret, you ARE NOT. You are a minority, of crazy people who throw $1000s at expensive pieces of electronics.

People do not want 200MHz XScale processor, 30MP digital camera, they can't afford this frivolence.

"People" do not know what a Xscale processor is, they only know what a "PalmPilot" is. And when they see one for $150 in Target, they will buy one.
PLease, take your prophecies of Palm DOom to pocketpcthoughts.com, we have banned anonymous posting here, and it was not an invitation for the trolls to register.

Sorry for that rant everyone ;)

PS: Just realized all my $ amounts are in Aussie dollars. The USD is about 60% of these prices, (unfortunately)

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
mrnoface @ 10/2/2002 9:31:45 PM #
It's the same - you think YOU'RE THE MARKET. Of course majority win by the number and Sony plays a rather little role when compared to Palm. But outside US(and some of Americans too) there're lots of people who are crazy about Clie. And think about PDA market getting smaller - now new cell phones have features similar to those of old PDAs.

Here in Korea most people can't find a reason to get a PDA since new handsets have enough functionality for average users. That's where Sony and other highend PDA makers kicks in - of course market is small but they have the potential.

If you want an organizer you don't even have to think: just get cheap a Palm or use your cellular phone. But what if you want MP3s, internet functionality, and etc? Don't say "most people don't want those." Then why the hell Sony keep making PDAs with a lot of features? And remember Sony sells more PDAs than Handspring now.


Yeh, Seung Chul
-----------------------
Technical Writer / Serious Skier / Thigh-burning Inline Skater
http://noface.uu.st

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
PDA Guy @ 10/3/2002 12:16:49 AM #
"And remember Sony sells more PDAs than Handspring now."

Heh, that would be impressive, if Handspring hadn't all but abandoned the PDA market.

I will agree that there is a market for the Clie high-end line. But the point that was being tried to make was that MOST folks don't want all those high-end features.

A point that I agree with.

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
jjsoh @ 10/3/2002 1:21:51 AM #
: Here in Korea most people can't find a reason to get
: a PDA since new handsets have enough functionality
: for average users. That's where Sony and other highend
: PDA makers kicks in - of course market is small but
: they have the potential.

Okay, if this is true, then does Sony make a localized version of Palm OS in Korean? Or possibly English/Korean? That would be great and something I would definitely get as an import if possible.

If not, what is the most popular PDA over in Korea? I know it's not really a viable market there (as you stated), but surely there are one or two companies competing for PDA marketshare. And if they have a English/Korean electronic dictionary, can you tell me which is the best?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Jim

RE: Answers
mrnoface @ 10/3/2002 4:42:23 PM #
>Okay, if this is true, then does Sony make a
>localized version of Palm OS in Korean? Or
>possibly English/Korean? That would be great
>and something I would definitely get as an
>import if possible.

No it doesn't. But I've heard Sony is going to sell Clie in Korea from the next month(or December?). And most Korean users use Hantip or Diopen to display/input Korean. I'm using N760 and really satisfied with Hantip's font maker.

>If not, what is the most popular PDA over in
>Korea? I know it's not really a viable market
>there (as you stated), but surely there are one
>or two companies competing for PDA marketshare.

Here are some data for the PDA market in Korea.

Pocket PC - 40%
Cellvic(Korean OS) - 40%
Palm - 10~15%
Other PDAs - 5~10%

Now Pocket PCs are getting momemtum - HP Compaq, Fujitsu-Siemens, and many other Korean PDA makers(they make ones with CDMA 2000 1x module) are selling different Pocket PCs here. Although I really hate Pocket PC(short battery life and awkward interface), it seems like some people just can't live without Windows interface and "cool" multimedia functionality these days...

>And if they have a English/Korean electronic
>dictionary, can you tell me which is the best?

If you want one for PDA you can use KDIC and custom dictionarys which can be downloaded from www.kpug.net(Korean site). For PC I recommend MS Bookshelf - it provides Eng-Eng, Eng-Kor, Kor-Eng, Kor-Kor dictionaries.

Hope this helps.


Yeh, Seung Chul
-----------------------
Technical Writer / Serious Skier / Thigh-burning Inline Skater
http://noface.uu.st

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
OzziePalmDieHard @ 10/3/2002 6:49:41 PM #
"It's the same - you think YOU'RE THE MARKET. Of course majority win by the number and Sony plays a rather little role when compared to Palm. But outside US(and some of Americans too) there're lots of people who are crazy about Clie. And think about PDA market getting smaller - now new cell phones have features similar to those of old PDAs."

No, i don't think i'm the market. I am a highend user, (albeit stuck with a lowend device). And please, don't assume I'm american, i'm australian, (thank god).

There is a market for the highend, and its getting bigger every year, but this niche will always be towered over by the hordes of people owning m1xx and Zire xxx handhelds. I am not anti-Sony, in fact, my next handheld will most likely be a Sony, because i think they will be the first to come out with a lower end, OS5 handheld in my price range.
The clie is popular in australia.

BUt as for mobiles, it is my personal belief, (that many hate me for), that there is little else for the mobile phone to achieve in terms of features.
I think it will stabilize, as did landlines, with improvements in usability mainly. In australia, the most mobile phone, internet, and tech savvy nation per capita, we are ahead of the americans in phones;

WAP is an utter failure, and i think that phone internet is doomed, due to obvious problems of price, and screen size, and content too.
These new phones with cameras and video cameras inbuilt will fail. It is a useless gimmick feature. The cost of MMS will be prohibitive, and it is not useful feature.
PDA functionality is useful, but the adress book is the only feature i ever see used by people i know.

SMS is a good feature, as is radio inbuilt, and mp3 is useful.

*but striking a nostradamus pose*

I think phones will just get smaller and cheaper.

Mine are famous last words though, like the
"Internet will never take off" 1994
"Everything that can be invented has been" 1890s

For people wanting a serious handheld device, a PDA is the way to go. Phones are limited in that they have to be small in order to be useful, whereas pda screens have to be big in order to be useful.

The mobile phone industry is working up hype about MMS and mobile internet, but surely they can see that MMS is pointless, and mobile internet, in its current form, is dead.
As for smartphones, they seem to be useful only if you are a PDA owner. You carry around a PDA and a phone, so may as well combine them. SO the size is acceptable for you. However, if you are a non PDA user, the size of the devices will make the it redundant.
The best solution seems to me to be a two piece combo. As bluetooth works its way into lower end devices, a cheap phone coupled with a PDA will deliver all the features of a high end phone, with a much more useful screen. And real internet browsing is something people are willing to pay for dearly, while WAP is not.
I'm sure most people will disagree with me on this. But please, i am not being a troll, just discussing the issue, so there is no need to flame me.

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
Fly-By-Night @ 10/4/2002 5:45:07 AM #
Agree mostly...

I recently carried out some extensive research and interviews regarding 3G devices and PDAs. The outcome of this research seemed to suggest that the most popular way for these mobile devices to go is modular. For instance, your average user will have a very small simple 3G module (looking similar to the very small 2G phones today). While this could be used as a phone, more likely it will just be left in a pocket or case, and calls be made with a small Bluetooth headset (see SE HBH-60 at www.infosync.no). PDA functionality is gained via a (Bluetooth) tablet with a largish hires screen. Most applications will be accesed via ASP (that's application servers, not M$ Active Server Pages). This means that the individual devices can be very small and low power (thus good battery life). The nice thing about this set up is that users can pick and choose their components depending upon circumstance -- take the tablet et al with you when working, but leave all the chunkier (and more expensive) kit behind when you go out to the bar with friends. Obviolsuy, with Bluetooth this kind of system can grow with BT keyboards, ad hoc networks (eg. in Starbucks, meetings, record stores, planes...). and upgrade paths are simpler (replace the individual bits as and when).

Personally I can't wait. In the mean time give me a T665C type OS5 device with BT. And here's hoping the 3G network operators don't charge silly prices for their services.

Fly-By-Night

Interesting stuff
OzziePalmDieHard @ 10/4/2002 6:37:00 AM #
Mmm.. Interesting research. I agree, i think modular is much better, and convergent devices have yet to prove me wrong.
I'm not sure about Tablet PC's. But thats mostly because of my anti MS bias, and i'm not sure i understand the purpose of the devices, to be a smaller laptop? Or a bigger handheld?

If someone loads up a Linux onto one of those, i will be very interested.

Very interesting stuff, and I'm glad to see that thanks to ban on anons, i wasn't flamed by anybody. I was bracing myself for tyrrades of abuse, and its a welcome change, thanks to Ryan :)

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
FredLL @ 10/4/2002 8:34:56 AM #
I could not agree more !
Here is what I think would be the best combination :
- very light (weight and feature wise) BT 2.5 or 3G Phone
- BT HeadSet
- BT PalmOS PDA (where the intelligence is) : allows you to dial your phone AND take the call with your headset (not yet possible I heard) And connect wirelessly (the phone stay in your pocket)

Fred

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
Fly-By-Night @ 10/4/2002 10:01:53 AM #
The way I was seeing it was the screen being effectively a really thin client (both technically and physically). The 'tablet' itself would be pretty useless without the phone/modem module -- it would really be just a way of accessing the services held on other servers. Companies such as Philips are near to producing commercially viable flexible screens (current plastics are too porous to work as LCD screens) using smart polymers. This could mean we have roll-up screens, similar to those old skool projection screens that roll out for slide shows (not sure how easy one would be to use as a touch screen though!). Anyway, should all be very interesting.

P.S. ARM Holdings shares plummetted some 60% yesterday and the day before due to an 'uncertain future'. Look like a good buy to me....

Fly By Night

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
jjsoh @ 10/4/2002 2:41:49 PM #
mrnoface, thanks for the info!

I'm surprised that Palm has as big a presence over there. Okay guys, don't laugh. I know 10-15% is not that big, but my expectations were a lot lower than that.

I've tried Hantip, but on a 160x160 resolution, I found it extremely ugly. :( However, I'm sure it looks better on your N760. This is why I'm hoping that with high resolution as a standard in OS5, someone can create a native Palm OS in Korean. ^_^ That would be awesome. I'll do more research on Diopen. I haven't heard of that.

Actually, one of my friends recently came back from a trip to Korea and he got his wife a PPC PDA and tells me that it is really nice. He also got it for a good price (~US$150), but I'm not sure of the specifications on it. Maybe he'll show it to me later. He tells me that there's a good Kor/Eng dictionary for it. I'm definitely interested since I'm trying to advance my Korean.

Anyway, I know what you mean about Koreans loving all the extra cool features and looks, but I still hope that Palm gains more marketshare over there. Possibly even to promote more development on Palm because I would love to eventually see a localized Korean version of Palm OS, whether it comes from Palm or Sony or whomever.. possibly Samsung? Hehe.. ;)

Thanks again for the useful link to KPUG. I'll have to hurry up and learn more Korean to understand what's going on in there. If you have any more links to Korean/Palm related sites, I would be more appreciative. You can email me personally (jamesjsoh@yahoo.com) as I'm afraid the off-topic nature of our discussion may bore a majority of the readership here. :)

Ahn-young-hee gah-say-yo.

Regards,


Jim

RE: No matter how you b*tch...
OzziePalmDieHard @ 10/4/2002 9:11:17 PM #
I've been wondering....

With a bluetooth headset, and a palm, could you play mp3s over the wireless headset?

Because i've seen these headsets, and on the cases it says it only works with an ericcson, or a siemens or whatever.

Because it would be great to use the headset as a voice recorder to the palm, and as a mobile phone, and as mp3. You wouldn't have to change anything.


1. Listening to mp3s, a phone call comes in from girlfriend. You field it on the headset
"Hey OzziePalmDieHard! Do you wanna meet me at the movies tonight, 8pm?"

2. Hang up, and make voice memo to self, "8pm, movies"


I guess third party software will be written, it always is ;)

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

NR/X Form Factor Suggestion

zipwire @ 10/2/2002 8:34:14 PM #
I am not arguing that the design is ugly. It is quite a sight to behold but I was hoping Sony would have redesigned the NR form factor into something more useable for this new series.

For example, the entire length of the body if "flipped" 90deg CW (Landscape view) will not only give you space for bigger keys but also a screen that's 480 x 320. That is so much for useful for typing and viewing.

If the screen shell folds all the way over you can still have the regular PDA "Portrait" view and use virtual Graffiti as before.

What's even more cool if the camera works as a web-cam a la their Vaio CMT1 subnotebook.

Like many people out there, I am looking for a PDA that allows quick and basic operations when firing up WinXP or Jaguar still takes too long; and then sync back to the main PC later.

Yes, there's the Nokia Communicator and hopefully their next iteration will fill the gaps that is still missing in their current model. Until then, I'll stick to my trusty T615.

RE: NR/X Form Factor Suggestion
Zuber @ 10/3/2002 4:10:43 AM #
Funny you should mention the Nokia 92XX. Just sold mine a while back. Excellent design, just lacking in a few basics (No USB, lack of executable memory). Had they addressed these, I'd still have it. The 640 X 200 screen works very well. If they could have made it a touch higher say 280 or 320 it would have been even better.
Worst case, I might just get the slightly more recent version. At the moment though, I'm looking to have a seperate phone and PDA (already have a 6310i with bluetooth).

Zuber

RE: NR/X Form Factor Suggestion
zipwire @ 10/5/2002 3:03:02 AM #
Looks like I should go into the clairvoyance business. This just came out - Sharp has released a PDA that has a notebook style clamshell with a flippable screen like the NR/X series! The Zaurus SL-5500 is available in Japan for now but that's what they always do before worldwide release.

Why oh why didn't Sony do this for the NX-series? I much prefer the Palm OS. Take a look at it here: http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2401.html



RE: NR/X Form Factor Suggestion
myname @ 10/5/2002 4:29:25 AM #
They coud easily make it into something like a HPC/Mini laptop, but why not ? they would but most Palm OS Apps are not really useful or won't be able to take advantage of a screen like that.

Have you ever wonder why Sony have to design the NR/NX series in such a strange way ?? because Pam apps are designed to display vertically not horizontally.

Definitive Release Date

Palmcicle @ 10/3/2002 2:13:25 AM #
Has anyone nailed down a solid release date for this thing?...I want to be sure and put it in my Zires datebook...if I can find the datebook button ;}

_________
Phew! Whats that smell?!? Did someone Zire in here?

RE: Definitive Release Date
Zuber @ 10/3/2002 5:37:42 AM #
Before XMas as that is where they are hoping to make big sales.
I've heard November from a number of sites. I'd call that semi-solid.

Zuber

RE: Definitive Release Date
jdmass @ 10/5/2002 12:13:35 AM #
If you go to sony style and add one to your shopping cart, it says that it will be available "on or before 10/28/2002".


RE: Definitive Release Date
hotpaw4 @ 10/5/2002 12:41:48 AM #
> it says that it will be available "on or before 10/28/2002".

Interesting. That's the same date as the one mentioned for the (rumored?) Palm Tungsten T. Sounds like some sort of synchronized ship date of PalmOS 5.x hardware.

3 weeks + 3 days and counting...

Backward compatibility

BWorthFo @ 10/3/2002 6:14:50 AM #
With OS5 device coming on board, it gives me a chance to eye on older Clie models. Just wondering, is the future OS5 hi-res software going to be compatible with the older models running slower processser, OS4.1 and Sony specially tweak hi-res screen ?

Upgrading?

SabMary @ 10/3/2002 8:30:12 AM #
Is anyone who owns an NR70V planning to upgrade to one of these new models? I don't think that they have made enough useful changes to make it worth another $600...
RE: Upgrading?
aardvarko @ 10/4/2002 3:08:06 AM #
I will be, but only 'cause my NR's screen is dying, and I've got one o' those lovely Best Buy Extended Warranties. Unless you're a big wireless user, it's probably not worth actually paying for.

-aardvarko
webmaster at aardvarko dot com
http://aardvarko.com
Your NR's Screen is Dying?
NYCLaw @ 10/5/2002 8:05:51 PM #
What do you mean? I'm on the market, and I'm seriously considering getting the NX-70v... Is there a common concern about the life of the screen on these?

Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?

n0where @ 10/3/2002 3:09:43 PM #
I haven't seen a date for the new Clie to hit the stores, but I think that we might finally see 256MB and even 512MB Memory Sticks around the same time.

Why do I think so?

1) We were told that they would have a 256MB card this year and for some reason many of us expected it by now. They are way overdue!

2) They might have been ready for a while, but wanted to time the release to match the new Clies. It would create a buzz and what good is broadband via WiFi on a handheld if you don't have the space to download something to. Same for the video and built-in camera.
They also have a 5Megapixel camera out, so Clie users aren't the only ones waiting.

3) The MemoryStick.org roadmap page has changed.
http://www.memorystick.org/msinfo/eng/mscon/roadmap.html

It now says: "Sorry, Road map is now updating...". Over the summer it was updated to look like this:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0208/02082801memorysticknews.asp

4) 256MB & 256MB SD cards have been out for a while. 128MB cards are now the same price or maybe cheaper than MS cards of the same size. CF and SD slots are in way more PDAs, digital cameras nad MP3 players than MS slots. There are also many more things to put in those slots.

There is a lot on the line. If at least a 256MB card isn't out soon Memory Stick just might become 'Beta Stick' sooner than I expected. We'll see.

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
hkklife @ 10/3/2002 5:50:36 PM #
Well I agree on all of the points you make above, except for the pricing issue. SD cards are stil waaaaaaay overpriced compared to CF,SM and even MS. CF was traditionally the cheapest, but now it looks like for the small capacity SmartMedia, retailers are clearing them out in favor of Olympus' new XD format, so I've seen 32, 64 and 128 SmartMedia cards priced below even generic CF as of late. Memory Stick brings up 3rd place in pricing (and availability). I still seldom see SD cards larger than 64 cards in retail shops and those are always hideously overpriced. Best Buy, for example, only recently began stocking 128 cards, priced at $99.99, whereas a colleague of mine recently bought a 128 mb MemoryStick for a little over $50.

I just bought a new Minolta F100 digicam that uses SD and I am feeling the pinch of my 2 64 meg SD cards. I'd love to just pop a 256 mb card in it and be done with it, but I am going to resist and wait until the prices stabilize. I really don't see the point of MMC cards sticking around, since all new devices are either SD/MMC or SD exclusively. We need some consolidation in this field and since it looks like MS and CF aren't going anywhere, MMC and SM should be put out to pasture. The arrival of XD is a total wate and needlessly complicates the market and bewilders consumers further.

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
n0where @ 10/4/2002 10:41:34 AM #
> Well I agree on all of the points you make above,
> except for the pricing issue. SD cards are stil
> waaaaaaay overpriced compared to CF, SM and even MS.

I thought someone might say that. I should have added that I live in Japan. 64MB & 128MB SD cards have been cheaper than MS cards of the same size for a while already.
http://www.kakaku.com/sku/price/flashmemory.htm
(Those prices are real. I have been to most of those shops listed.)

> CF was traditionally the cheapest, but now it
> looks like for the small capacity SmartMedia,
> retailers are clearing them out in favor of
> Olympus' new XD format...

I was disappointed to see this new format. It won't last. They called it the xD Picture Card, so it probably won't be in anything but cameras at first. And even then, probably just those from Olympus and FujiFilm. I haven't seen any mention of anything other than memory cards. They have to play a bit of catch up on sizes, but have promised 256MB by this December. People will want to take photos from their digital cameras and put them in their PDAs and cellphones and SD will be the slot for that. I hope this xD stuff goes the way of SM.

> I still seldom see SD cards larger than 64 cards
> in retail shops and those are always hideously
> overpriced. Best Buy, for example, only recently
> began stocking 128 cards, priced at $99.99,
> whereas a colleague of mine recently bought a
> 128 mb MemoryStick for a little over $50.

Maybe you can try mailorder. $99 is kind of high.
http://www.pricescan.com/scripts/Q01011808.asp

> I just bought a new Minolta F100 digicam that
> uses SD ...

I bought a Minolta DimageX and a 128MB card the same day last spring. This wasn't my first SD device. I also have a Handera 330. I leave a 64MB card in that for backing up. I bought a 256MB SD card in June along with an SD MP3 player.

I have to say the prices of the 256MB cards haven't really come down too much since I bought mine. You might want to wait a bit.

> ... and I am feeling the pinch of my 2 64 meg SD
> cards. I'd love to just pop a 256 mb card in it
> and be done with it, but I am going to resist
> and wait until the prices stabilize.

You might not have to wait too long. Lots of places selling the Lexar 256MB SD card.
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=605642

> I really don't see the point of MMC cards
> sticking around, since all new devices are
> either SD/MMC or SD exclusively.

I think MMC cards max out at 128MB now and are slower than SD cards. (My Handera back ups are much faster with the SD card. I gave the 32MB MMC card I had to a friend to use in his Panasonic cellphone that has a slot.) But, they may consume less battery power which would make a difference in an MP3 player.

> We need some consolidation in this field and sinc
> it looks like MS and CF aren't going anywhere, MMC
> and SM should be put out to pasture. The arrival
> of XD is a total wate and needlessly complicates
> the market and bewilders consumers further.

I agree. You can see the true colors of companies like Sony, Olympus and FujiFilm as they try to lock in their customers.

CF is going to do fine. Look at all the PDAs with two slots and the megapixel cameras that use it. 1GB MicroDrives and flash cards are readily available. It will also hit 2GB before the others. And look at all the non-memory cards there are. You name it, it's out there.

I already have consolidated, so I don't have a problem.

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
myname @ 10/5/2002 4:37:20 AM #
LoL it's just a memory card format, how are they going to lock you down with a memory card format, there are alot of flash card reader that reads all 5 of them, so if you feel beling locked by sony you can always put the MS in the card reader, read all the file, put a SD card in it and copy all the files.

Memorystick nowadays are more like 40 dollars for 128MB, that is real price from Tiger Direct.

And lastly, MemoryStick is as proprietary as SD and xD ...

if you guys like non-proprietary that much , switch to a linux handheld with a CF slot or pen and paper, coz the Palm OS is proprietary too by your definition. And Palm is trying to lock everyone else in too.

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
OzziePalmDieHard @ 10/5/2002 6:18:10 AM #
"if you guys like non-proprietary that much , switch to a linux handheld with a CF slot or pen and paper, coz the Palm OS is proprietary too by your definition. And Palm is trying to lock everyone else in too."

Yes, Palm is clearly evil, sticking to industry standards like SD, and accommodating for the dying MMC. Will this profit mongering corporate villain ever be stopped?

Anyone who thinks SD is proprietary needs their head checked. I believe SD is governed by a committee of members. I'm pretty sure any corporation can join. I am not sure on the exact details, but it is an open STANDARD.
SD is not an attempt to lock in customers by palm. Palm does not make SD cards, it only sells rebadged ones. Palm is adhering to an industry standard, in the interests of the consumer.
I believe CF is similair.

Sony, on the other hand, is locking in its customers by using its own memory stick. This is proprietary. Only sony devices sport MS slots, and only sony manufactures Memory Sticks.
Sony could have just as easily, in fact more easily, used SD, but it chose to develop its own format(at great cost), in the interest of profit line.

This is fine, if you plan on only using sony devices ever again. Otherwise, you'll have to cough up some serious $$$ for your brand new shiny, SD mp3 player.

I don't think "Sony is the deevillll!"
But claiming MS is not proprietary shows ignorance, and will only get you branded as a Sony troll.

I, personally don't mind about the whole MS thing. My next device will be a Clie. The only flash memory device in the house is an aged CF camera, which is my mothers. The cards in this are small capacity, so its not worth getting a CF device. I never bought SD cards for my (refunded, awaiting $640) m130, and i am too poor to afford high capacity cards anyway, so the 128mb thing is fine. I don't plan on buying any cameras or mp3 players or the such like, as i'll be lucky to afford an OS5 device(a paper run doesn't pay well, trust me).
However it would be nice to know that if i did purchase a device in the future, i won't be limited to a Sony, or have to buy new cards....

Just my $0.04 AUS$ (Damn currency exchange rate, I'll teach those damn Americans to squash the mighty Aussie Dollar)


Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
megazone @ 10/5/2002 7:03:28 AM #
>Sony, on the other hand, is locking in its customers by
>using its own memory stick. This is proprietary. Only
>sony devices sport MS slots, and only sony manufactures
>Memory Sticks.

How do you like your crow served?

In the middle of you rant, calling him a sony troll and all, you seem to have missed the fact that MS is licenced out and there are other vendors using it in the products and also other vendors producing MS media. NOT just Sony.

Sony is, of course, the largest user of MS. But they've been openly licensing it for a while now - which is why there are built in MS slots on other vendors products, 3rd party MS adaptors for CF, etc, 3rd party MS card readers, and 3rd party MS media.

MS could be called proprietary, yes. By the same measure Java is a Sun proprietary language. They control it after all, and refused to turn it over to a public standards body.



-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
myname @ 10/5/2002 10:06:20 AM #
How is Memory Stick any more proprietary than SD card ?? this really confuses me it's just a matter of controlled by more than one company and controlled by one company

And when did SD card become Industry Standard ?? Show me some IEEE Documents then I'll agree with you. SD Memory Card is standard between those company who uses it, so is Memory Stick. if they didn't file it to IEEE then I am sorry it is far from industry standard. The so called "industry standard" is not controlled by any industry standard body but big companies.

And I am not a Sony Troll, in fact I don't even have a Clie or a Vaio, my next PDA will probably will not be a Clie either. (maybe a Zaurus)

btw: do you honestly believe anything you said in your message ??

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
n0where @ 10/5/2002 2:00:00 PM #
SD & CF will outlive MS.

Hey myname:

> Memorystick nowadays are more like 40 dollars
> for 128MB, that is real price from Tiger Direct.

Send me a link!

And should I be calling it 'beta stick' or betastick'? 1 or 2 words?

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
n0where @ 10/5/2002 2:00:00 PM #
SD & CF will outlive MS.

Hey myname:

> Memorystick nowadays are more like 40 dollars
> for 128MB, that is real price from Tiger Direct.

Send me a link!

And should I be calling it 'beta stick' or betastick'? 1 or 2 words?

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
myname @ 10/5/2002 9:46:19 PM #
LoL ..so is SD Card "industrial standard" now ?? Sounds more like Secure Beta to me. And look last time I check SD Card has 2% market share and Mem Stick has 25%. Well of course that was last years' statistics, but I can't find one for this year anyway.

And about the $40 128MB MS, it's at Tigerdirect.com as I said in the message.

RE: Larger Memory Sticks coming soon...?
OzziePalmDieHard @ 10/5/2002 10:16:11 PM #
"In the middle of you rant, calling him a sony troll and all, you seem to have missed the fact that MS is licenced out and there are other vendors using it in the products and also other vendors producing MS media. NOT just Sony."

Yes, i researched that later, and found that an Acer device also uses the MS slot. But i couldn't find any other card manufacturers, sorry for that mistake.

But, the use of its own memory standard by sony is in the interest of profit, no doubt about it. It is about limiting the customer to its own cards, and in the future, making it an incentive to use sony devices in other areas. It would be cheaper for sony to use SD. They wouldn't have to spend R and D on MS, just buy SD slots, and slap them onto their devices.

Oxford Dictionary;
Proprieter n. Holder of property, owner of business.

Proprietrary a. Of a proprietor, held in private ownership.


So, yes, both SD and MS are "proprietary" in some limited sense.
But that is not important.
The motive for including SD in a device is;
To add a feature that is helpful to the consumer, so that more people buy it, in turn making more money for XXXX inc.

Sony's motive is to include a MS slot, which will mean that people will buy Sony cards, in turn making SOny more profits, at the expense of the consumer.


Both companies want to make money, it is the way they go about it.
FOr many this is not a problem, like myself, but it is no use defending Sony, when they are clearly not acting in the interests of the consumer.

If we could all use a little more maturity in brand loyalty it would be much apreciated. I get tired of the standard scenario;

Palm User; "Look at the crappy battery life on the NX70! I hope you enjoy your five minutes of wifi!"

Sony User; "Well i'm sure you'll have fun with being able to look at your todo list in black and white, low res, for two weeks!"

Handera User; "My Handera 330 had wifi and VG long before the Sony!"

SOny and Palm in unison; "WHy don't you got talk to the other two HE users, and wait for the next model, expected in several years!"


If everyone could just realize that the licensees all have different aims, and different purposes, that isn't for everyone, and just be thankful that they aren't running PPC.
Lets all troll every brand equally :)

I am not a Palm troll, i am disgusted at Palm for its false advertisiing, likewise, i am dissapointed with Sony's profit-oriented use of the MS.

=========================================

Several Months Ago at Palm Headquarters;

"Hah! Those sony bastards think that they can beat us in stupid names. The Tungsten T is infinitely more ridiculous than "clie"....."

Lots of pictures

Lucan @ 10/3/2002 5:32:23 PM #
RE: Lots of pictures
adamrichman @ 10/3/2002 6:52:02 PM #
Thanks =)

New Trend?

Odyssey41 @ 10/3/2002 9:09:12 PM #
Am I seeing a new trend here? Pocket PC’s seem to be getting smaller and less expensive (e.g., Toshiba’s e310, ViewSonic’s V35, new iPAQ’s?), while Palm OS devices (Sony NR and NX’s) are getting big and really expensive.

I don't like this trend. I own a Sony Clié T-615C which I mainly acquired because of its compact size and nice color screen. Portability is of the utmost importance to me (and price $$$ too!). I want an OS 5 Clié with the T-6xx form factor. And its price has to be no more than $399, at the most (what I paid for my T-615 back in February).
I have been tempted to go the Pocket PC way for the reasons mentioned above. I never do, as I always remember a poor experience I had with an iPAQ: inconsistet performance and poor reliability (needing frequent soft resets). Has this been improved? I guess I’m going to wait. I’m happy with my Clié T-615 anyway, although my eyes turn uncontrollaby toward the new machines :-)


RE: New Trend?
asiayeah @ 10/4/2002 3:16:01 AM #
I think Sony will eventually release a Palm OS 5 based on its T-series PDA. In the meantime, we may shoot for the Palm's Tungsten T device for a compact OS 5 device.

Tony

RE: New Trend?
Raptor1313666 @ 10/5/2002 11:47:04 AM #
Well, I wouldn't call it a 'trend', per se. It's just the norm. In most all cases in life, the 'flagship' product is 'bigger and better'.

Besides, I don't see the NX series as truthfully that much larger than the NR, which is actually thinner than the N760. The NX, though, has the wireless slot, which is an obvious growth in size, but you can't really fault it for that now, can you? CF is a relatively standard form factor that Sony cannot mess with. People already cry and moan about Sony's proprietary Memory Stick, think what they would do if Sony released yet ANOTHER format to the scene.

I sincerely believe that Sony has made it as small as current technology allows.

Finally, with Sony's rapid product cycle, does anyone truly doubt that the CLIE that they want ISN'T on the drwaing board SOMEWHERE within the company? Most of what people are asking is simply the next logical step in the progression of the line.

-Richard "Raptor" Powell

"Nice guys may finish last, but you know, the company's much better back here."

Cool devices but too heavy

carl @ 10/3/2002 9:12:34 PM #
These new PDA are cool except that they don't fit in a pocket and that's very important (at least for me)...
Very good sony keep up the good work but rememer that we want PDAs not laptops....


RE: Cool devices but too heavy
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:41:44 PM #
too heavy?
What is the weight on them?

under 1 lb is needed
8 ounces or less prefered

-Andrew
_______________________________________
Email me about anything at
andrewholler@rogers.com
Current PDA:= Palm M130
by the way, Can someone buy me a TT?

Rather have a P800 !!!

Gene9 @ 10/3/2002 9:46:32 PM #
As one who already has a bluetooth mobile phone (Ericsson T39) and a Handspring Edge with a bluetooth springboard, I think I'll opt for the SonyEricsson P800 instead, which combines the phone and the PDA.

HIGHLIGHTS:
- Symbian OS7 PDA
- Bluetooth
- WAP, cHTML, HTML rendering
- built-in camera
- world phone
- GSM/GPRS (compatible with T-Mobile and AT&T GSM)
- looks way cool, high geek factor
- apparently all the e-mail and SMS/MMS apps are in ROM

The P800 seems to be a better choice for communication-centered PDA/mobile-phone users who mostly stick to the basic Calendar, Address, Memo and Task apps.

I was tempted to get the NX70v (using it with my current T39) until I read about the battery life issues, and realized that the bluetooth memory stick would be protruding from the NX70v (I'm one who wishes it was built-in too).

---------------------------------------
INFO-1: http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/
INFO-2: http://www.symbian.com/news/2002/soneric-p800-2.html
PIC: http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/images/p800_dock.jpg

SPECS:

System
Triple band GSM 900/1800/1900

Phone dimensions
117 x 59 x 27 mm

Weight
148g without flip
158g with flip

Color
Silver White

Screen
1/4 VGA color touchscreen (208 x 320)
4096 colors

Size
40 x 28 mm/208 x 144 pixels (closed)
40 x 61 mm/208 x 320 pixels (open)

Performance talk time
up to 13 hrs

Standby talk time
up to 400 hrs

Camera image size
up to 640 x 480 pixels

Color depth
16 million colors (24 bit)

Operating system
Symbian OS 7.0

Memory
16 + 16 MB flash
12 MB available for images, contacts etc.
Expandable memory: Memory Stick® DUO

Java support
J2ME CLDC/MIDP and PersonalJava

Wap
WAP 2.0, incl HTML, XML and cHTML

--
Gene J
Visor Edge & Ericsson T39m for now

Heavy use of the Grafitti-Area - How about Scratches?

skccs @ 10/4/2002 8:58:34 AM #
I'd like to adress this question to existing NR70-Users.

I usually write about 120 chars per minute with about 10 % errors and missunderstood characters on the grafitiy area of my clie peg-n770c/e (as counted by tealscript).

Therefore I don't think I will be using the build in keyboard.

One thing I noticed with my current clie ist, that the protection sticker I did put on the grafity area get's completely scratched after about 6 month's. Further I found out that I had to cut off the screen protection-part, as this make's the screen less readable especially whith small fonts and backlight off (i often use my palm without backlight, when i have a office-table light or bright outside light to save battery.

So here is my question for the existing NR70-users which are heavy grafitti-writers:

*What are your experiances, is your screen already scratched (the n770 screen get0s scratched very easily)?
*Did you stick some kind of plastic film on a part of the screen or on the whole of it?
*How about the readability of for ex. small font sheet-to-go with that protection film on it with for ex. backlight on 1/4.

When looking at the nx70-demo on the japanese page I suddenly realised, that the grafity part swaps from upper quarter to lower quarter of the screen when you swivel the screen from clamshell-mode to tablet-mode. Which means that you will have to stick protection film on both the upper and the lower quarter of the screen as a "heavy" grafitty-writer ;-)

Greetings from Switzerland

Christian Stocker

RE: Heavy use of the Grafitti-Area - How about Scratches?
AustinRC @ 10/4/2002 12:15:40 PM #
Well, it's actually pretty hard to write on the screen when it's not in tablet mode, at least for me. I do have a full-screen screen protector from Brando on mine, but the inevitable scratches on the grafiti area are only on the table-side-grafiti area, not the clamshell one (did that make sense?). I don't have many scratches, and like you, I don't use the keyboard much (mostly in things that autocomplete, so I just have to type the first letter and it fills in the rest for me). A bigger annoyance for me (I like my toys clean) is the scratches on the frame around the screen, from the stops on the inside of the device (keyboard side) - you close it, screen in, and it sits on little plastic bumpers, which have scratched the case there.
RE: Heavy use of the Grafitti-Area - How about Scratches?
AustinRC @ 10/4/2002 12:25:25 PM #
(I hit post too soon...)

I use my NR70v with the backlight turned all the way down (not off), and it's more than sufficiently bright. It's hugely brighter than my 710c was. I use TinySheet's small fonts, and I can read them with the backlight off (although it certainly wouldn't be my first choice).

The reason I chose Brando's protector was readability - most people can't tell I've got a protector on it at all. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Austin

RE: Heavy use of the Grafitti-Area - How about Scratches?
skccs @ 10/4/2002 3:43:51 PM #
Dear Austin, thank you very much. This will make my decision easier. So I won't anymore concern on that.

Christian Stocker
RE: Heavy use of the Grafitti-Area - How about Scratches?
andrewholler @ 1/17/2003 10:42:40 PM #
Don't think it will scratch. Seems worthy of non-scratchability.

Black Version of NX70V??

Datkrazaypinoy @ 10/5/2002 1:50:35 PM #
I am looking forward to buying the nx70v but would anybody know if the nx70v is coming out in black here in the US.....much thanx to anybody that can help me out...i want to kno if its only in japan that the black version is coming out and when is it coming out if it does come to the US
RE: Black Version of NX70V??
OutdooR @ 10/6/2002 11:33:22 AM #
i believe the black version is only available to japanese OS clies...... the US only sells the white ones....

gawd the black one is sexy..... just like the PS2.....

..::|OutdooR|::..

RE: Black Version of NX70V??
SayWhat? @ 10/8/2002 6:25:44 PM #
That sucks! They should offer both Black and White here in the states. Is this not the land of the free anymore?

RE: Black Version of NX70V??
mentalsrule @ 10/20/2002 6:14:27 PM #
they will offer both colors...

so dont worry. outdoor doesnt know what he is talking about :-p

____________________
"WE DONT WANT YOUR STD's!!"
www.pocketloft.com

Stowaway Keyboard

Manofword @ 10/7/2002 8:27:34 PM #
I talked to Targus, ThinkOutside and Sony today to find out what the deal is with the "Stowaway" keyboards for the NR70 series. Sony has them in their online catalog, but has no delivery date. Targus will not carry them because they will be sold only through Sony. ThinkOutside is the manufacturer of the PEGA-KB11 and told me that they have been shipping and that the keyboard have not been discontinued like the NR70 series. I talked to Sony's customer dept via "chat" and the guy told me that he had no clue as to when the keyboards would be available. However, he did say the the PEGA-KB11 for the NR70 series would NOT work with the NX series. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me --- Go figure !!!

When is going to hit stores? Like COMPUSA?

SayWhat? @ 10/8/2002 6:22:34 PM #
just wondering

RE: When is going to hit stores? Like COMPUSA?
qianjizhao @ 12/29/2002 12:28:40 AM #
I got a japanese model nx-70v!
Does anybody can help me change it to english model?
Thanks!

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