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Comments on: Palm Unveils the Tungsten T

Palm, Inc. today introduced the Palm Tungsten T handheld. The Tungsten T handheld is the most compact Palm branded handheld on the market today. New features include: a collapsible graffiti slider design, one-handed 5-way Navigation, an ultrasharp, high resolution screen and integrated Bluetooth.

In addition Palm Inc has also announced the wireless GPRS Tungsten W.

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Yeah!

mbgrayson @ 10/28/2002 12:05:07 AM #
I'm buying one.

I like the mp3 capability, better screen, and bluetooth....


Mike

RE: Yeah!
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 12:06:30 AM #
Big discussion on this in the forums including user pictures and initial reviews...

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Yeah!
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 1:24:51 AM #
The device got mp3 capability, but the required software is not included.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Yeah!
Take1 @ 10/28/2002 1:35:33 AM #
Wonder how this thing sounds? Doesn't sound like Palm specifically designed the thing to play music, and that makes me wonder what the bass response and volume of the Tungsten is.

MP3 playback would be a nice selling point and would make their unit on par with the T series.

MP3 player?
RAMd®d @ 10/28/2002 4:58:05 AM #
I haven't heard any PDA/Pocket PC that makes music sound good via a speaker.

Headphones would be mandatory. But the last thing I need is music files on a PDA.

Now, toss in that Sony TV chip and you might have something. I'd even settle for FM radio. AM, only if the S/N were *very* good. (There's a new chip for that too, but it may not be small enough for PDAs yet.

- - -

An armed society is a polite society.

Early reviews Tungsten T very positive....
pdangel @ 10/28/2002 5:48:12 AM #
Early reviews Tungsten T:

PDABuzz: "We like it a lot better than we expected to, and declare it the best Palm-branded PDA ever."
http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=6cf14589274069a25b17383770f66794&threadid=43105

Infosync: "....we really like the Tungsten T. Users with Bluetooth mobile phones should definitely consider the Tungsten T as well as users who are primarily concerned with size and rapid access to standard information." (5 out of 6)
http://www.infosync.no/system/print/index.php?id=2495


"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

BrightHand Review on Tungsten T
pdangel @ 10/28/2002 6:08:08 AM #
BrightHand gives "....the Palm Tungsten T an EXCELLENT rating based on form, a GOOD rating based on function and a GOOD rating based on value": The Tungsten T handheld combines a stylish design with modern technology, while remaining true to Palm's "pocketable, easy-to-use, long battery life" philosophy......



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Yeah!
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 7:16:06 AM #
The BrightBand's review sounds like a Palm sales. The review has so many marketing terms. The review from infosync.no looks more objective.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Yeah!
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 7:21:28 AM #
On deeper look, the Brighthand review only sounds marketing in the first section (covering the Form factor), while still being objective in the rest of the article.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
Palm forgot to make us buy new accessories!!
Tuckermaclain @ 10/28/2002 8:22:53 AM #
I've already ordered it. There had better not be any crap going on like when I pre-ordered my 505. Palm has a chance to make a fresh start with its first big release since the 505 (still not as groundbreaking). The stock #s for the travel chargers and cables are the same as those for the 515!! Palm accidently forgot to make us buy all new accessories!! I can't wait for my Tungston!!

RE: Yeah!
MikeInDM @ 10/28/2002 8:32:50 AM #
>The BrightBand's review sounds like a Palm sales. The >review has so many marketing terms. The review from >infosync.no looks more objective.

So, if someone likes a product, they can't write a credible review?


RE: Yeah!
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 10:21:37 AM #
Don't get me wrong. I am a big fans of Palm and I am still very satisfied with my m505.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Yeah!
jeffmwknight @ 10/28/2002 12:18:02 PM #
ZDNet Video Product Showcase:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R21362542

RE: Yeah!
Fly-By-Night @ 10/28/2002 12:35:20 PM #
Any chance of making a smaller link! Use the 'Makeashorterlink.com' facility on the post page. I can't link through, and cuting and pasting doesn't seem to work either!

RE: Yeah!
jeffmwknight @ 10/28/2002 12:45:56 PM #
ok... see front page of ZDNet.com and click on the picture or Video link to article....

Palm forges Tungsten PDAs

http://www.zdnet.com


RE: Yeah!
jjsoh @ 10/28/2002 10:31:07 PM #
Off-Topic, but Ryan, is there a problem with wordwrapping?

On the home page, wordwrap works fine, but once you click through the article, wordwrap doesn't work anymore. I'm not using Internet Explorer which seems to be working right (big surprise there), but Mozilla/Netscape does not.

I know it's a minor issue, but it gets annoying when you have to scroll to read the article AND the comments posted. Besides, not everyone runs Windows (or Mac OS, for that matter). ;)

Jim

RE: Yeah!
useybird @ 10/28/2002 11:49:29 PM #
has anyone seen the box it comes in? Right out of the future. It looks like a robot!

-------------
Burning Desire: The want or need for something great.
Burning THE Zire: A fun recreational activity involving setting Palm's new crappy handheld ablaze.
RE: Yeah!
bytor @ 10/29/2002 9:53:15 AM #
Reminds me of the Buzz Lightyear packaging in Toy Story!

Long Live Visor Prism

This is too exciting!!

Zippy @ 10/28/2002 12:08:48 AM #
I won't sleep tonight and will prob. line up at the door of my electronics retailer (if they have them)

Woo hoo!!

RE: This is too exciting!!
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 12:10:42 AM #
Most Staples ($468) have them since late last Friday, and a few Circuit City ($499) stores have sold them since Saturday. CompUSA, BestBuy, Office Depot, Office Max, and others don't show them... yet.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: This is too exciting!!
RAMd®d @ 10/28/2002 5:10:57 AM #
I can't wait too test drive one.

I can wait to buy one. But I do want to do the Up Close and Personal thing ASAP.


___________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: This is too exciting!!
mfs @ 10/28/2002 10:39:03 AM #
I just picked mine up at Staples. $469.98 + tax. Nice packaging!!!



RE: This is too exciting!!
Altema @ 10/28/2002 11:49:21 AM #
The Staples in Troy Michigan have not even HEARD of the Tungsten!

RE: This is too exciting!!
mfs @ 10/28/2002 12:18:54 PM #
>The Staples in Troy Michigan have not even
>HEARD of the Tungsten!


When I asked the kid about it he said they did not have them. I got lucky and the manager was standing near by and heard me ask and said they just came in about an hour ago.


RE: This is too exciting!!
hoodoo @ 10/28/2002 1:46:55 PM #
Staples in Downtown Toronto has them...about $800 CAD yikes! The guy got it out of the back room for me, it hadn't been charged yet, but the sliding mech. seems very high quality and the case is metal. I would say very nice! But, alas, I don't need one, I'll stick with my m100 for now. I'd have to buy the Sony T68i w/ bluetooth for $350 CAD also!!!!!

RE: This is too exciting!!
Zippy @ 10/28/2002 2:04:53 PM #
No-one in Vancouver has one!!!
One London Drugs said " I've never heard of that, so I must say that we do not have it and probably will not carry it"
Future shop saleswoman frowned and tried to dodge my question, so I left.
Another London Drugs said they have 600 ordered and awaiting delivery..eta unknown
STaples people said "Palm tongue, what is that?"
Office Depot said "we only have what you see on our shelves"

Great and astute service heh!

Sucks :-(


RE: This is too exciting!!
Ba-gug @ 10/28/2002 3:17:54 PM #
Basically that is what I heard from our Best Buy, Office Depot, Circuit City, and Office Max (Peoria Illinois) "Tungstone what?" so I just ordered it directly from Palm Inc. It has a 30 day no questions asked return policy, and free overnight FedEx shipping. I also spoke to a tech at Palm who told me that the new Tungsten T will work with the my m515 keyboard. I sure hope so!!!

Col. 1:28
RE: This is too exciting!!
Rhauer @ 10/28/2002 4:46:14 PM #
Staples in NYC, 5th Ave. New Palm? Tungston what? Won't care it. I assured him he would carry it and that they were probably going to get in soon.

I'll wait until the review are out

I.M Anonymous @ 10/28/2002 12:13:29 AM #
Nive press release, but I'll have to see what people say about durability and battery life before I make up my mind. Ryan, when will you have a review?

RE: I'll wait until the review is out
Palm_Otaku @ 10/28/2002 12:43:33 AM #
Come back in the morning ;) Final edits, final fact-checking and final images will be ready by then :)

Cheers,

Dan

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
ScottP @ 10/28/2002 12:51:24 AM #
Dan - for some of us in Oz it's already late in the afternoon!! ;) Look forward to your review, so how long you had one of these in your hands then but been tied by the NDA ..?

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 1:25:49 AM #
The battery is really a concern. In Palm's comparision between Tungsten T vs Sony NX-60. The battery life of the Tungsten T is only listed as 1 week, while NX-60 has 10 days.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
RoelvdV @ 10/28/2002 3:42:29 AM #
These 10 days sounded like 10 hours max on some Clie forums. They weren't impressed at all with batterylife.

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
McMagnus @ 10/28/2002 4:24:06 AM #
I really want to know if the Bluetooth speed is anywhere close to what the BT specs say it should be. The Toshiba SD-card in a m505 only manages ~10-20% of 1MBit/s.

Please...

I've I get a solid week off the battery...
RAMd®d @ 10/28/2002 5:12:57 AM #
...I'll be happy.

I have to sync almost daily, so a week away from the cradle would be OK, if I had too.

And while it won't charge the battery, synching via Bluetooth would be way cool.


___________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 7:01:36 AM #
I just wonder why the Tungsten's battery can't last longer than an iPaq.

I've thought the PalmOS is more power friendly than the PPC. Besides the physical size of the screen is smaller than the iPaq, even though it has more pixels. Also the CPU has a lower Hertz.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
Ce @ 10/28/2002 7:25:43 AM #
According to the review at Infosync the batterylife is on par with the 515.
With full backlight, which seems te be very bright, the first batterylow warning came at 2 hours and 48 minutes and the device shut down after 3 hours 24 minutes.

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 10:21:52 AM #
You mean the iPAQs last less than 3 1/2 hours with full backlight?

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: I'll wait until the review are out
Mr T @ 10/28/2002 5:11:15 PM #
How's that review coming along Dan?

RE: I'll wait until the review are out
spike @ 10/29/2002 4:32:15 PM #
yeap... been waiting for another great review from dan... but where is it? =(

No mHz listed

SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 12:20:56 AM #
Nothing on the Palm.com site nor in the press release lists the details on mHz for this unit. It appears the Oslo prototype this summer had 175 mHz but in the Tungsten T release this has decreased to 144 mHz based on a review in MSNBC and European ADs for this model. Palm is apparently leaving this details out of the box, manuals, details on the website, etc. because it looks bad compared to the 200 mHz Sony at the same price, and the 300-400 mHz PPC's offered for $200 to $300 less than this unit. Intresting.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: No mHz listed
carguy @ 10/28/2002 12:33:24 AM #
It runs at 144mHz. See the Processor/Performance comparison between it and the iPaq on Palm's site - http://www.palm.com/products/compare/tungstent-ipaqh3870.html
RE: No mHz listed
nospleen @ 10/28/2002 1:19:29 AM #
On the comparison with the sony nx60 it says the sony comes with an optional keyboard. I guess palm 'forgot' it has a thumbboard.

Palm are MAD
Taqi @ 10/28/2002 2:23:22 AM #
I had a quick look at the comparison chart, being a kind of regular guy looking at that chart the IPAQ looks better!

Battery life IPAQ 2 weeks Palm 1 week!

I nearly fainted...



RE: No mHz listed
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 4:24:42 AM #
Yes, I can't imagine now a PPC has better (double) battery life than Tungsten-T!

I've thought Palm has always been proud of its longer battery life!

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

Maybe the Tungsten will have CPR software...
RAMd®d @ 10/28/2002 5:16:50 AM #
...and paddles for the faint of heart.

But to do work, I don't need two weeks of battery power and 200MHz. It's a PDA, not a tower.

I just want something that fits in my shirt pocket (like my V) that does want I need a PDA do to. 16MB RAM and not 32MB? I'll live, and do just fine.

It's fine that Sony wants to put a camera on a PDA, and those "smart phone" PDAs are fine, for those who want them.

But I need a PDA, and more specifically, a PPDA (Pocket PDA).


___________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: No mHz listed
Fly-By-Night @ 10/28/2002 5:57:34 AM #
Yes, it's not the most convincing of comparisons is it! I don't know if Palm are trying to say 'Yes, our new device is nearly as good as an iPaq, but a bit cheaper and smaller'; or they know that people reading the chart understand that Palms need less ROM/RAM etc. and understand that the Tungsten is better.

FBN

PS. My light bulbs are tungsten.... wicked!

It's not only about Mhz...
carl @ 10/28/2002 8:03:44 AM #
The OMAP processor is 175Mhz but this should be more efficient than a PPC running a 400Mhz Xscale processor because te PPC require more power due to Windows OS, again PPC requires more memory for the same reasons.
But it'll be great if we had 32MB not 16MB to be able to store some MP3's without having to buy an expansion card.
This link will give the specifications of the OMAP
http://focus.ti.com/docs/apps/catalog/general/applications.jhtml?templateId=1106&path=templatedata/cm/general/data/wire_omap_1510_featben
Carl

RE: No mHz listed
Fly-By-Night @ 10/28/2002 9:24:34 AM #
Yes, *WE* know that, but we're geeks! The point is, the average business user used to the Wintel world of Clock Cycles Wins Prizes will look at the comparison chart, and decide they'll be better off with an iPaq rather than the T|T Dave in IT recommended to him.

FBN

RE: No mHz listed
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 9:58:32 AM #
The OMAP processor is NOT running at 175 mHz. It is running at 144 mHz. The prototype units this summer ran at 175 but release version is at 144 mHz. Palm does everything they can to hide the fact it runs at only 144 mHz, leaving this off even the box, manual, and website details but multiple reviews are confirming it, several ads confirm it, and the iPAQ/Tungsten comparo on Palm.com lists the mHz at 144.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: No mHz listed
I.M Anonymous @ 10/28/2002 1:47:48 PM #
That comparison chart also says the Clie has built in bluetooth, so I wouldn't trust it that much.

Battery life is better for the palm
a3 @ 10/28/2002 2:19:19 PM #
I read the comparison chart and Tungsten has a 1 week battery life while iPAQ has 10 hours (not days).

Anyway, the important thing is that you can do a lot more with this device, than with a feature rich iPaq thus demonstrating how efficient the Palm OS is. I wonder how much longer will PPC last...

_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.

RE: No mHz listed
markgm @ 10/28/2002 2:35:26 PM #
On the comparison with the sony nx60 it says the sony comes with an optional keyboard. I guess palm 'forgot' it has a thumbboard....

That's okay, palm added bluetooth to the clie!

Battery life
emotive @ 10/28/2002 10:35:21 PM #
Palm = 1 week battery life, iPaq = 14 hours, not 14 days.

Looks Great!!

Mr T @ 10/28/2002 12:20:16 AM #
It looks great. Only thing is they don't mention what speed the processor is?

They do implicitly say that it CAN PLAY MP3 (hotly debated in the forums!). Just that you have to buy your own headphones and software.

They don't say how big the battery is in terms of Mah, or how they come to the determination that it can last for one week? Under what kind of usage and backlight settings?

I can't wait for Ryan's review here on PIC. Hopefully he's had one for w while and has a review almost ready!!

RE: Looks Great!!
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 12:28:34 AM #
They say under "default" backlighting (at least not ... OFF) and regular usage (whatever that means.)

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Looks Great!!
Homie S @ 10/28/2002 12:40:16 AM #
So the question is... Sony or Palm?
You guys seem to lean towards palm, which is understandable, but I'm a pretty tech savvy guy, so I dunno. I think I will just ride the wave and go with the flow(read: wait till christmas).
RE: Looks Great!!
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 12:58:07 AM #
My goodness if you put the 200 mHz processor, built in MP3 apps, and 16 megs of ROM from the Sony into the Palm and made the unit $449 you would have a sorta winner... but Palm made a GREAT looking form factor that just cripples its new multimedia direction with low RAM, low ROM, slow processor, no multimedia apps, etc.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Looks Great!!
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 1:28:25 AM #
Is the 8MB ROM a concern for Palm Tungsten T? The NX60 has 16MB of ROM. Will the device be upgradable to Palm OS 6?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Looks Great!!
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:32:17 AM #
Neither company is making promises in regards to OS 6 but Palm with 8 megs of ROM and a slow processor with little RAM is hinting that it likely won't ever be an OS 6 unit (not that Sony will either, just that it is more likely.)

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.

ummm

kempokaraterulz @ 10/28/2002 12:31:48 AM #
i dont want to sound biased here but havent we already had some of these features for a while? hires. mp3. fast processor (not arm though). etc. i understand about the os5 stuff, but really, i wonder why we are exited over this. i know its a big step for palm inc but sony/acer/HE have has this stuff out for years. (acer for the voice recording)

_______________________________________
My door is always open, so feel free to leave.
RE: ummm
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 1:29:23 AM #
Because it's from Palm! ;-)

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: ummm
masitti @ 10/28/2002 6:40:52 PM #
I have since forgotten about Palm a long time ago. Sony has had a hi-res unit out for *over* a year now. Since then, sony has bumped up to 480x320... wow, did Palm just realize that they need 320x320? If Sony wouldn't have come to the market, the Palm wouldn't have 320x, it wouldn't have MP3 capability, and all the fancy details wouldn't be there.

Palm needs to make one *large* leap ahead of Sony - they needa get a device that will beat the current CLIE, instead of trailing it. Other than built in Bluetooth and some small things, this device compares with the N610c. Thumbs down in my book.

------------------------
Mario Masitti
O/T Mod
I Love Tennis :)

Home Button...

ScottP @ 10/28/2002 12:43:46 AM #
Now this thing is officialy out there so we can all talk about it, anybody with one know if there's away of performing a 'tap' on the home button without expanding it... Otherwise that 90% of actions statement is pretty off target I reckon. Fine if you only run the four apps on the hardcoded buttons, but how do you get to any others?

On another note - when are these things coming to Oz! Nothing on the Australia website suggests they exist. Also anyone worked out the cheapest place to buy one in the world ..?

RE: Home Button...
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:00:06 AM #
Clicking the directional pad brings up the applications menu, from what some say on the boards it works really well without having to open the unit.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Home Button...
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 1:30:15 AM #
I've thought clicking the directional pad is a select button in some applications.

BTW, how to bring up the menu button, if the application does not have a title bar?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Home Button...
Tungster Tee @ 10/28/2002 2:03:24 AM #
ScottP...you hit the center of the d pad and it takes you home.

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS!
RE: Home Button...
bcombee @ 10/28/2002 4:03:56 AM #
You don't just hit the center of the direction pad, you hold it for a moment.

There'a great review posted at infosync.no that Larry Garfield did... I'm looking forward to reading Dan's review when it gets posted later today.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: Home Button...
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 4:26:36 AM #
I see. Now we get the launcher button with the D-pad? What about invoking the menu?

Do we have to double-click the D-pad to invoke the menu? ;-)

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Home Button...
pauleyc @ 10/28/2002 7:20:37 AM #
The navigator pad is very nice, but somehow I miss a jog dial... BTW, something is wrong with this earlier Russian hands-on preview mentioning a "scroller" since the actual release does not have such a feature. Maybe it was included in the Oslo prototype?


-------
pauleyc

RE: Home Button...
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 10:04:04 AM #
That wasn't a jog dial in the Russian model, it always was the voice memo button but they just didn't know it.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
Tungsten in Australia
emotive @ 10/30/2002 12:04:19 AM #
ScottP

The release date will be Nov 8

Retailers such as http://www.ow.com.au are taking pre-orders at A$1099.

Like the design, but...

TypeMRT @ 10/28/2002 12:54:53 AM #
the new Clie (in gunmetal gray) still grabs the award for best looking OS 5 device. It's good to see Palm releasing new products, if it is only in vain.
RE: Like the design, but...
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:00:42 AM #
IMHO I disagree... this unit is BEAUTIFUL looking and the design is inspired... the Sony while nifty is really too large and akward. But the new Palm is crippled with low RAM, lower ROM than the Clie, a slow ARM processor, and no multimedia softwear which just plain kicks it in the shin.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Like the design, but...
M3wThr33 @ 10/28/2002 1:07:58 AM #
The Clie with the CF pack is now a giant gray metal brick. It shows no innovation other than tacking on features without knowing when to stop. Sony will never catch the low or middle level market.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: Like the design, but...
PDA Guy @ 10/28/2002 1:14:01 AM #
Here's an interesting tidbit to ponder over...

The Tungsten T, when you tap on Info, shows xx of 14MB available.

The new Sony NX60, when you tap on Info, shows xx of 11MB available.

Did someone mention low-RAM on the Palm device? :)

RE: Like the design, but...
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:33:52 AM #
The T comes without the browser in memory (800k) and without bluetooth apps in memory (1000k) and without any of the docs to go in memory (lot of k) etc. so by the time you load up the key apps that you would typically run on this machine (not counting the games and silly extras that come with the machine) the Palm would also only have 11 megs left.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Like the design, but...
Smaug @ 10/28/2002 2:26:45 AM #
God, it looks terrible to my eyes, maybe it's just me, but eeep.

RE: Like the design, but...
PDA Guy @ 10/28/2002 2:35:30 AM #
"The T comes without the browser in memory (800k) and without bluetooth apps in memory (1000k) and without any of the docs to go in memory (lot of k) etc. so by the time you load up the key apps that you would typically run on this machine (not counting the games and silly extras that come with the machine) the Palm would also only have 11 megs left."

So, the NX60... includes all this? Just curious.

RE: Like the design, but...
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 2:51:46 AM #
I don't think Sony includes any Bluetooth software, since there's no Bluetooth option for the new NX-series handhelds. The only available connectivity options are a Sony Wi-Fi card for $149 extra, and possibly an IrDA connection to a mobile phone.

RE: Like the design, but...
Zuber @ 10/28/2002 3:24:00 AM #
Bluetooth Memory Stick drivers have apparently been updated to work with the NX.

Zuber

RE: Free Memory
skccs @ 10/28/2002 5:41:38 AM #
pdagui

did you do these test's with an american or an japanese nx60? It's true (see the forum of the nx70v rewiew at spug.com) that sony needs space for some kind of dynamic ram management. But I thought the american modell will have more free ram. Japanese sony-website says 11 MB usable, sonystyle.com says 15 mb usable. This has to be an error if you had a american nx60 to test.

Christian Stocker

RE: Like the design, but...
PDA Guy @ 10/28/2002 4:12:25 PM #
"did you do these test's with an american or an japanese nx60? It's true (see the forum of the nx70v rewiew at spug.com) that sony needs space for some kind of dynamic ram management. But I thought the american modell will have more free ram. Japanese sony-website says 11 MB usable, sonystyle.com says 15 mb usable. This has to be an error if you had a american nx60 to test."

Nope, two friends of mine now have a US NX60, and both show 11MB available...

RE: Like the design, but...
masitti @ 10/28/2002 11:26:14 PM #
The NX60/70 isn't supposed to be innovative - that's why they came out with the NR70v - that WAS the innovation. This is just beefin up the specs and some features. :)

------------------------
Mario Masitti
O/T Mod
I Love Tennis :)

hmm...

Ricky @ 10/28/2002 12:58:30 AM #
Browsing through the Tungsten T faq's, found the following info:

"Due to changes in the Palm OS®, the Palm™ Portable Keyboard is not compatible with the Tungsten™ T device."

Crap, guess the UC doesn't help you much there, and there goes another $100.

"The headset jack on the Palm™ Tungsten™ T accepts standard 3.5 mm stereo headset plugs. The Palm Tungsten T is capable of stereo sound output."

Just what I hoped.

"4 MB Flashable ROM (8 MB BEFIGS version)"

So will I get 4 or 8 MB ROM? The comparison page lists it as 8, but the flash demo shows it at 4.

RE: hmm...
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 2:09:44 AM #
4MB in the US verion (English only), 8MB in the international (EFIGS = English, French, Italizan, German, Spanish) version.

RE: hmm...
Zuber @ 10/28/2002 3:25:41 AM #
So everyone should go out and buy the International version then. Remove extra languages and use the extra ROM to store apps.

RE: hmm...
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 4:22:42 AM #
I assume both US & international devices have 8MB ROM, the difference is perhaps the US version only uses 4MB of it?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: hmm...
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 9:13:17 AM #
You're probably right, using the same chip for both versions would make sense. The ROM files do differ in size though.

RE: hmm...
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 10:07:47 AM #
With only 4 megs of ROM compared to 16 in the Clie it doesn't seem they really intend to flash the OS to 6 does it?

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: hmm...
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 12:08:16 PM #
I suppose. Palm is purportedly working on an all-new OS6 device which is due some time next year, so I guess T2 is not expected to have a long lifespan.

Interesting new software included

Cheetah @ 10/28/2002 1:07:14 AM #
It's got a nice software bundle. Docs to Go, Acrobat Reader, some bluetooth software, some COLOR games finally, and a new font!

RE: Interesting new software included
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:16:10 AM #
and NOT ONE single program designed to take advantage of the new OS 5 and its ARM processors. Hello Palm... did you ever consider making a free MP3 player or video player so people who spend a fortune on this thing can understand why it is cooler than an Sony SJ30 costing $250 less?

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Interesting new software included
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 2:12:32 AM #
All applications take advantage of the new ARM CPU. :-) OS5 runs native ARM code, so API calls are executed at full (i.e., not emulated) speed.

Most, if not all, included applications have been updated to support 320x320 display, so they do take advantage of the new OS5.

Sony and Palm seem to target different audiences with their OS5 devices - Palm is going after the enterprise with Bluetooth, and Sony chases the high-end consumer market with mp3, video, and built-in camera.

RE: Interesting new software included
karlie @ 10/28/2002 11:05:24 AM #
Some 2 cents,

The most interesting feature of the Sony are the few extra pixels, that make *document* reading much more comfortable.
That feature in my opinion makes the Sony handheld closer to my business needs.
Moreover, we have yet to see what coporate decision centres will think of bluetooth as far as security is concerned.

For the small form-factor, look at the SJ-30, now for what other reason than product line maintaining would Sony not be able to have the same for factor with virtual graffitti in, what? six months?

Indeed the bluetooth is a big miss on the Sony

The conclusion is pretty straight forward: as painfull as it is, I am not going to upgrade to any of these models.

RE: Interesting new software included
jeffmwknight @ 10/29/2002 11:09:45 AM #
Yeah, from the list of software included, BlueChat and BlueBoard look interesting. Looks like chat and whiteboard for PC. Interesting.... Teachers will hate this. :>

From Palm.com Product Specs.....

WHAT’S IN THE BOX
Palm Desktop software
Palm Desktop software 4.1, including
Voice Memo and Note Pad extensions
Chapura PocketMirror 3.1, for synchronization
with Microsoft Outlook
Phone Link
Dialer
SMS
Quick Tour
User Manual
Software Essentials CD
Acrobat Reader
ArcSoft PhotoBase Palm Edition
BlueBoard
BlueChat
Copytalk
Dialer
DataViz®, Documents To Go® v5.0
Professional Edition, for Word, Excel
and PowerPoint compatible files
Handmark: MagicDogs, MobileDB,
Monopoly (trial version), Scrabble
(trial version)
Palm Reader
Palm WAP Browser
Palm Web Browser Pro
Phone Link Updater
powerOne Personal calculator
SMS
VersaMail 2.0
Applications included on Palm Tungsten T
handheld:
Address Book, Calculator, Card Info, Date
Book, Expense, Memo Pad, Note Pad,
Preferences, Security, Setup, To Do, Voice
Memo, World Clock
SUPPORTED DESKTOP SYSTEMS
AND REQUIREMENTS
PC running Windows 95/98/NT 4.0/2000/
Me/XP (Windows NT, 2000 and XP require
admin rights to install. Windows 95 & NT,
and systems without USB ports, require
the Palm HotSync® Cradle-Serial, SKU
P10828U, sold separately)
OR
Mac OS 9, version 9.0 or higher
Mac OS X, version 10.1.2 or higher

MY OS4 SOFTWARE (Y/N)

Taqi @ 10/28/2002 2:26:41 AM #
1. Will the TT (Tungsten T - a bit of a mouthful when typing) allow multitasking with OS4 software running via the 'emulator/interpreter'.

Can I run bu ThinkDb and ISilo and TomeRaider all at the same time!

2. Do we still need to buy PiDirect or did OS5 resolve that idiotic issue?

----
3. I wonder if the thumboards will work?
Probably not if the full size one can't!!!!

RE: MY OS4 SOFTWARE (Y/N)
bcombee @ 10/28/2002 3:15:58 AM #
> Will the TT (Tungsten T - a bit of a mouthful
> when typing) allow multitasking with OS4 software
> running via the 'emulator/interpreter'.

No, Palm OS 5 is still a single-tasking operating system. All applications in Palm OS 5 are 68K apps, but they can take advantage of the ARM hardware using ARMlets, code resources compiled for the new processor that perform certain functions at full speed.

> Can I run bu ThinkDb and ISilo and TomeRaider
> all at the same time!

You can switch between then just like you can now on Palm OS 4 devices.

> Do we still need to buy PiDirect or did OS5
> resolve that idiotic issue?

Palm OS 5 doesn't implement new APIs for VFS access -- its the same as OS 4, and due to the incompatibility of hacks, programs like PiDirect aren't possible on the new devices.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: MY OS4 SOFTWARE (Y/N)
Ricky @ 10/28/2002 9:38:24 AM #
PIdirect II works with the TT

RE: MY OS4 SOFTWARE (Y/N)
Ronin @ 10/28/2002 12:25:43 PM #
"PIdirect II works with the TT"

Not on mine.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

RE: MY OS4 SOFTWARE (Y/N)
Zippy @ 10/28/2002 2:21:03 PM #
Does anyone know if it will be possible to write on the unit while listening to one's recorded messages?
Would this constitute "multitasking" ?
Otherwise one will have to write down one's messages on paper and then transfer to palm.

Might still get one, but it is overpriced

Zuber @ 10/28/2002 2:40:05 AM #
Looks good, but I think it should have been priced at $350 or $400 at most. At $500, for the top end product, they don't even bother to give you a basic MP3/Video player to show its capabilities. I mean, telling you that the device has excellent multimedia capabilities but not actually having a single app. to demonstrate that is just silly. "Trust as it is really good, honest".

I guess it's just a marketing decision about the price and it will be reduced in a few months but, but I'm going to take good long look at the alternatives before parting with my money. I like to think I'm getting a reasonable deal for my money, and I'm just not getting that feeling at the moment.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I hold the device and try it out.

Zuber

RE: Might still get one, but it is overpriced
bcombee @ 10/28/2002 4:05:36 AM #
The review at InfoSync stated that Palm is working with Real Networks (the RealPlayer people) to develop a MP3 audio player working on the device, and it will be posted for free download soon.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Might still get one, but it is overpriced
Fly-By-Night @ 10/28/2002 6:06:36 AM #
RealPlayer? Fantastic. Now Real can fill the spsre 11Mb on a Palm with spam, just as they fill my PC with it too!

FBN.

RE: Might still get one, but it is overpriced
HJones @ 10/29/2002 1:53:50 PM #
Now if only Apple would issue an iTunes for palm app.

Playing mp3 on the ARM processor or the integrated DSP?

asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 4:36:56 AM #
The OMAP 1510 includes an integrated DSP (Digital Signal Processor) for audio decoding. For mp3 playback, is it going to use the ARM processor or the integrated DSP?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Playing mp3 on the ARM processor or the integrated DSP?
bcombee @ 10/28/2002 4:58:44 AM #
I would expect that the ARM processor could handle the decode to wave task, while the OMAP DSP handles processing the wave file to audio. AFAIK, directly accessing the OMAP DSP isn't possible from user applications right now. However, if a company was working with Palm and TI, they may be able to build their own DSP program to handle this, but I don't think that's too likely with OS 5.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Playing mp3 on the ARM processor or the integrated DSP?
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 7:06:33 AM #
Another question, can the third-party mp3 player (e.g. RealOne) going to be able to play mp3 in the background while using another Palm's application?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Playing mp3 on the ARM processor or the integrated DSP?
bcombee @ 10/28/2002 12:50:23 PM #
This actually looks pretty likely. The streaming sound API uses a background thread to ask for more data to play, so you could setup a player in a shared library, lock that code into memory, start playback, and then switch to another application without stopping the playback system.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

Bluetooth access point?

asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 4:40:04 AM #
Can anyone get a USB bluetooth adapter for their PCs and then use the PC as a bluetooth access point to the Tungsten T?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.
RE: Bluetooth access point?
Buzman @ 10/28/2002 5:06:13 AM #
Maybe something like this:

http://www.avm.de/en/products/FRITZBlue/BlueFRITZ/BlueFRITZUSB/index.html

But even more interesting for Europe-guys like me: surfing the net and checking emails from the Tungsten, via Bluetooth directly to my ISDN port. Without having my desktop computer powered on:

http://www.avm.de/en/press/announcements/2002/2002_10_14_1.php3

This would perfectly fit my needs.

Buzman

RE: Bluetooth access point?
asiayeah @ 10/28/2002 7:09:21 AM #
But can I use my PC as if it were a Bluetooth access point?

For instance, can I use my Tungsten T to browse web via a blue-tooth equipped Windows PC?

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Bluetooth access point?
Zuber @ 10/28/2002 8:36:51 AM #
In general, you should be able to connect to your PC via Bluetooth and use your PC as the route to the internet. Can this be done with the Tungsten ? No idea.

Zuber

RE: Bluetooth access point?
ganoe @ 10/28/2002 10:53:14 AM #
If your PC supports some kind of Internet connection sharing and your USB Bluetooth dongle supports behaving as a network access point, it should work. So, if you have a newer Windows OS PC, it should just come down to what features your USB Bluetooth adapter supports.
RE: Bluetooth access point?
Spock9 @ 10/29/2002 12:31:26 PM #
Yes you can. I have a BT USB Adapter on my PC at home and have configured my NIC for sharing. I can access the internet via my PC as an access point from almost anywhere in my house.

PPK is not compatible with the Tungsten T

JFM3 @ 10/28/2002 4:49:44 AM #
"Palm™ Portable Keyboard is not compatible with the Tungsten T" - This kills it, I was going to buy, but the fact that I won't be able to take notes in class with the keyboard I already have. Sorry Palm, I was willing to spend the money, but you didn't deliver what I was expecting.

RE: PPK is not compatible with the Tungsten T
bcombee @ 10/28/2002 4:54:00 AM #
I don't think the FAQ entry provides enough information. Its understandable that the current PPK driver wouldn't work on Palm OS 5, since OS traps are no longer available as a mechanism to hook into the OS. However, there are other ways to write a keyboard driver, especially with cooperation from the device manufacturer. I hope they are working with ThinkOutside to produce a Palm OS 5 driver, but just not posting anything to avoid making a public promise of support if their efforts don't work.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

Hardware review

specterss @ 10/28/2002 5:17:27 AM #
I hope there will be soon some good reviews of inside stuff. By then we will know, what we have (processor speed, ram speed and so on). I wonder who make hardware for palm...

RE: Hardware review - German Review
skccs @ 10/28/2002 6:22:26 AM #
Here you find a german review (you might want to translate it using babblefish).

The german magazine "Spiegel" says they had the device a fews day before and did a review:

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/technologie/0,1518,220111,00.html



Christian Stocker

VersaMail

AP @ 10/28/2002 7:09:45 AM #
Is VersaMail 2.0 on the TT able to check email on the background, at scheduled times, using BT/GPRS?

Thanks.

No Java...

palmato @ 10/28/2002 8:27:25 AM #
After going through the technical documentation published on the palm site, it's now clear that the current shipping version of the TT does not include Java. Same fate for the full featured web browser announced back in September (?). The included browser is just a proxy based one.

For me this is quite disappointing: having Java on the device would be a clear bonus to create wireless applications without having to master the PalmOS. Let's hope this issue gets a fix sooner rather than later. Regarding the browser, its success will depend on the reliability of the proxy server. Basically a question mark.

On the other hand I believe the form factor is great (much better than the Sony counterparts, as it has always been ;-) ) and it's going definitely be a major selling point of the device.
Palmato


-----------------------
Tired of PPC? Get a T!

It's a step in the right direction

serpico @ 10/28/2002 10:01:36 AM #
I woke up this morning to see Palm's website (of course here too!)and was surprised to see the specs of the Tungsten T. It's not amazing, but nice to see Palm recreate their long term design and technology. We see this from Sony all the time, so to see Palm add new items (like a headphone jack) is a big step for them. I hope this device is the first in a long line of great devices to come.

Wheres the MP3 app AND WHERE IS THE WEB BROWSER??

rsc1000 @ 10/28/2002 10:08:39 AM #
This thing looks great - but we were told months ago that OS 5 was going to include a new, REAL web browser. Where is it? This thing only lists a WAP browser?!?! what the #@$%? And they've got the capability and the headphone jack - why would Palm be the only company in the universe to not do the obvious thing and add the bloody software to ACTUALLY USE these features? Oh - well. Not a problem for people like me - i'll get 3rd party software. But since 30% of PDA user only use built in apps - that means a considerable percentage of tungsten buyers probably won't even know that their PDA has that capability!

Still....sweet device.

RE: Wheres the MP3 app AND WHERE IS THE WEB BROWSER??
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 10:30:33 AM #
They have a regular browser too I believe but it is all on the CD. They have both the WAP and regular browser. Stinks its not in ROM because the web browser is nearly 1000 k.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615.
RE: Wheres the MP3 app AND WHERE IS THE WEB BROWSER??
Zuber @ 10/28/2002 11:06:08 AM #
Is the regular browser the same one that comes with the Sony. i.e. Netfront (or something like that). That does look really good.

Zuber

RE: Wheres the MP3 app AND WHERE IS THE WEB BROWSER??
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 11:17:02 AM #
It's not the same browser. It's a proxy-based, full-featured browser developed for Palm by Novarra, Inc.


RE: Wheres the MP3 app AND WHERE IS THE WEB BROWSER??
gfunkmagic @ 10/28/2002 9:50:10 PM #
Infosync has a god review desecribing the software package OOB. Here is the quote from the review about Netfront and the link:

"Most surprising, the Tungsten T does not include the NetFront web browser developed by PalmSource and Access Systems America. Instead, it includes Palm's own proxy-based browser, Web Pro, developed in partnership with Novarra. Web Pro routes all traffic through a proxy server that Palm maintains free of charge for all users, using the proxy to transform and compress data for better transmission, especially on expensive, metered GPRS or 1xRTT connections. The browser supports most current web standard, including HTML 4.0, XHTML 1.0, cHTML (iMode), CSS 1, Javascript 1.5, and WML 1.2, as well as support for caching, bookmarks, and cookies."


http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495.html


RE: Wheres the MP3 app AND WHERE IS THE WEB BROWSER??
Zuber @ 10/30/2002 12:23:11 PM #
So does this browser rearrange the screen, or does it show the data "as is". Also, does it have a zoom out option like the Clie. I was really impressed with that.

Zuber

Quick Question

Ba-gug @ 10/28/2002 10:29:41 AM #
I looked around to see if this question was answered before but could not find it, anyway will the current Palm keyboard work with the new Tungsten T?
RE: Quick Question
Ba-gug @ 10/28/2002 10:33:31 AM #
Oops, my bad, I just found it, sorry...... Abort, Retry?, Fail........

Col. 1:28

TV Remote

Rhauer @ 10/28/2002 10:48:34 AM #
Maybe it seems minor but I was looking foward to using my new Palm (current 760N) as a sophisticated remote control. I figured it was a no brainer for the models.



RE: TV Remote
Dante @ 10/28/2002 11:33:01 AM #
You can actually use it as a remote. I've used my i705 and m500 both as remotes. You just need to get some third party software. Check out download.com to see what the latest and greatest is.

RE: TV Remote
Rhauer @ 10/28/2002 11:44:42 AM #
Thanks, I'm familiar with some of the software but I didn't think the new T was going to have the IR strength. I know I can't use my 760.

RE: TV Remote
mfs @ 10/28/2002 12:59:18 PM #
OmniRemote will not work with OS 5 accoring to Palm's Web Site.

RE: TV Remote
Midknyte @ 10/28/2002 5:12:01 PM #
Well, not yet anyway. We all know this'll be fixed.

RE: TV Remote
gfunkmagic @ 10/28/2002 9:52:32 PM #
Unfortunately, the TT does not have an extended range IR... pretty silly IMHO since using your pda today as a universal remote is intuitive nowadays...

A few more small questions

hkklife @ 10/28/2002 11:06:07 AM #
A few items that I've not stumbled across answers to yet:


1. Will the unit support apps/games written for the enhanced audio found on T-series or will they have to be rewritten for Tungsten/OS 5?

2. Is the Grafitti area backlit? If not, is it legible with the screen brightness turned up to the max?

3. Is the speed of the SD bus/ VFS enhanced at all over OS 4? That is, will it be nightmarishly slow to run large games (like the new Rayman SD card on its way from Palm) off the card? Is something like this OS or device dependent?

4. Does OS 5 have support for the forthcoming ultra-large SD cards (512 mb and beyond?)

In all fairness, I am quite impressed with the unit. Palm really did their homework but this time around on the hardware side of things, but it's the bundled software which is the weakest point of the package(which, ironically, was the highlight of the m5xx series!).

-There should be an MP3 player installed in ROM, if not on the CD in the box. This is quite simply a travesty for those who will also be comparison shopping any number of Sony devices.

-The web browser should also be built into the ROM, as should a minimal game or two (minesweeper etc).

-it would hav been nice to have seen a really knockout game (full version, of course) bundld with the unit to show off the power of OS5 (not more lame board/care games). A shooter or racing game of some kind, or even Deity3d would impress the GameBoy owners as well as the PPC set. Just because a unit is targeted towards executives does not mean it can't rock'n roll outside of the office...

RE: A few more small questions
mcwetboy @ 10/28/2002 12:50:22 PM #
If the MP3 software or web browser were included in ROM (or otherwise pre-installed) some people would want to take it out. For example, I already own an iPod, so I don't need my PDA to play MP3s -- an included MP3 player would be a waste. Someone else may use a Tungsten T but never use it to surf the web, and might prefer not to have a web browser taking up space. To each his/her own.

Including more programs in the ROM also means you'd have to re-flash the ROM every time you upgraded the software. I suspect that multimedia and web browser software would need updating more frequently than PIM software.

RE: A few more small questions
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 12:59:31 PM #
1. Will the unit support apps/games written for the enhanced audio found on T-series or will they have to be rewritten for Tungsten/OS 5?

Needs to be rewritten.

2. Is the Grafitti area backlit? If not, is it legible with the screen brightness turned up to the max?

No backlighting of the area and can't really be seen in the dark even with brightness all the way up, much like every unit BUT the m505.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

I love the box!

sandbuck @ 10/28/2002 11:21:51 AM #
Nice packaging. But why are we paying extra for MP3 software??

RE: I love the box!
mcwetboy @ 10/28/2002 12:55:19 PM #
We don't know if MP3 software will be free or not yet, do we?

And not everyone will want to play MP3s on this device. See my comments above -- if you already have an iPod (or other dedicated MP3 player, especially a hard-drive-based player), this won't be nearly as good.

RE: I love the box!
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:01:55 PM #
I still think Palm should have included at LEAST one app like an MP3 player that demonstrated OUT of the box the advantage of Palm OS 5 and the ARM processor. That said RealOne intends to release an MP3 player within 2 weeks for free that will run on this machine.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

It's the Universal Conector really UNIVERSAL???

alexito @ 10/28/2002 11:24:33 AM #
Does it fit a Xircom WirelessLAN sled??

Any other add-on's???

Please answer

Technology moves faster than you can afford... at least for me.

RE: It's the Universal Conector really UNIVERSAL???
robman @ 10/29/2002 2:44:29 PM #
It should fit---but according to Palm's website, it's not compatible. Same story with the folding keyboard.

What the !@# is "Universal" supposed to mean? Is this a problem for the people writing the drivers or what?

-robman

Palm Researcher at the University of Texas at Austin
http://www.edb.utexas.edu/petrosino/pda

RE: It's the Universal Conector really UNIVERSAL???
jjsoh @ 10/29/2002 3:55:13 PM #
: Is this a problem for the people writing the drivers or what?

I believe so. Palm states that it is incompatible, but they could be referring to the fact that you cannot use the UC peripheral 'out of the box' even if it can physically connect to the Palm without problems. I suppose it is all up to the device manufacturer to supply updated drivers for the new OS. Whether they will release it at all or in a timely manner is up to them.

Jim

Biggest shortcomings for the Tungsten

BusinessUser @ 10/28/2002 11:44:26 AM #
After having surfed the web for 4 hrs and reading all of the reviews, I feel that the Tungsten has the following major shortcomings:

1. Missing NetFront Access browser (Sony includes it)
2. Bluetooth currently does not support AT&T (but supports Cingular and T-Mobile)

I would like to have both the Palm Proxy Web Browser and the NetFront browser. Because GSM is expensive, I would use the Proxy Browser most of the time, but when I wanted the full web site, then use the NetFront browser. This way, you will minimize your phone bill.

Does the Sony NX60 or NX70 have bluetooth? Sony's web site makes no mention of it, but if you look at Palm's web site where they compare the Tungsten with the NX, Palm lists the Sony NX as having built-in bluetooth capability. See http://www.palm.com/products/compare/tungstent-clienx60.html


RE: Biggest shortcomings for the Tungsten
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 12:14:27 PM #
Bluetooth doesn't need to be supported by AT&T (or T-Mobile or Cingular for that matter), you might be thinking about Tungsten W's GPRS support.

Web Browser Pro will give you the entire web site, but it will be compressed to reduce the amount of data being sent and reformatted by the proxy to better fit PDA screen.

RE: Biggest shortcomings for the Tungsten
travishill @ 10/28/2002 12:17:57 PM #
Are you saying there are some sites that render under the NetFront browser that Sony includes that don't render under the Novarra browser that Palm includes?

You can import a Bluetooth memory stick for the Sony, but then you are out of luck doing any memory expansion at the same time...

RE: Biggest shortcomings for the Tungsten
Fly-By-Night @ 10/28/2002 12:25:02 PM #
The whole comparison seems a bit ham-fisted (like the iPaq one). First it lists the wireless features as BT for the T|T and optional wLAN for the NX60; then lower down it mentions that the NX60 has built in BT. Also says NX60 has an 'optional' keyboard -- funny kind of optional. As with the iPaq, Palm seem to be trying their hardest to sell other company's devices!

FBN.

RE: Biggest shortcomings for the Tungsten
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 12:25:53 PM #
Has anyone actually seen/tried the NetFront browser? Sony handhelds are not shipping yet, are they?

RE: Biggest shortcomings for the Tungsten
gkostolny @ 10/28/2002 12:41:33 PM #
I have a clie sj20 which I currently use with the BT MS to connect to my AT&T t68i and access email/web via GPRS. I've tried the Netfront browswer on PocketPC, and I was disappointed with it vs. PocketIE, to be honest. OTOH, the WAP/WML support in addition to everything else would make it worthwhile to keep around. I'd really like to play with a hi-res version for the Palm, but as far as I can tell, it is not available yet.
RE: Biggest shortcomings for the Tungsten
legalalien @ 10/28/2002 12:51:02 PM #
What was it that you did not like about NetFront?

Documents To Go Version 5 Included with New Palm Tungsten T

fcardona @ 10/28/2002 12:34:22 PM #
I just read this in Palm's press releases area:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=153400&TICK=PALM&STORY=/www/story/10-28-2002/0001828740&EDATE=Oct+28,+2002

Is "Version 5" the same as the "Premium Edition"? Can anyone confirm on this? (That press release would contradict versions on the "Professional Edition" being shipped with the unit)

If so, then it means it's more powerful software-wise when compared to the m series bundled software. It makes you think it could be included in the 500USD price tag.

RE: Documents To Go Version 5 Included with New Palm Tungsten T
George256 @ 10/28/2002 12:57:24 PM #
The press release is accurate, version 5 is not the same as premium addition.
RE: Documents To Go Version 5 Included with New Palm Tungsten T
fcardona @ 10/28/2002 12:57:27 PM #
Sorry, missed to say that the Dataviz page, there's NO version 5 professional edition avail: http://www.dataviz.com/products/documentstogo/dxtg_std.html

What's up here? Maybe it's a Dataviz error, I suppose...

RE: Documents To Go Version 5 Included with New Palm Tungsten T
HiWire @ 10/28/2002 1:09:37 PM #
Is Dataviz's MobileDB the same as ThinkDB (post-acquisition)? Also, did everybody notice how they quietly dropped Roxio's (ex-MGI) PhotoSuite Mobile software for Arcsoft. Roxio has done nothing to update their software for the past year - I guess it's a dead duck; but I'm still using it :-P cuz it's free.

By the way, I actually like the way the Tungsten T looks - check the picture with the Graffiti area closed on the Palm site. It's just a little chunky, but they have to fit a speaker and a headphone jack, so that's an understandable compromise.

I guess to summarize, it's cooler than I previously thought, but could use some improvement. Has anybody got specs on the screen size (area)? I hope it's at least as big as the m500 series.

RE: Documents To Go Version 5 Included with New Palm Tungste
tddisc @ 10/28/2002 1:23:28 PM #
MobileDB is put out by Handmark, not Dataviz. Dataviz renamed ThinkDB to SmartListToGo (a dumb name IHO).

So to answer your question, no.

td

Does anyone know the Screen Size?

Mr T @ 10/28/2002 1:14:15 PM #
If one of the lucky people who already have one could do a quick measure of the Physical size of the screen that would be great. Is this screen manufactured by Sony, ie is it the same screen as on the T665/T615?

RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:32:16 PM #
http://home.attbi.com/~dcorsi/T615vsTungstenT.jpg

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
Mr T @ 10/28/2002 2:00:27 PM #
Thanks for the pic. The T looks excellent IMHO and so small next to the T615 which is small enough to start with.

Anyway I can ask you to measure the dimensions of the screen on both?

RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 2:24:45 PM #
I didn't have a ruler handy but I used a side of paper to measure if one was bigger than the other... the answer? The Sony T615/T665 screen and the Tungsten T screen are IDENTICAL with maybe the T being .05 mm bigger.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
ska @ 10/28/2002 2:49:27 PM #
you need a micrometer in order to tell 0.05mm difference.
RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 3:28:10 PM #
Yeah, that is my point, I can't really tell a difference but if there is one it is the smallest possible amount in favor of the T.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
Ces @ 10/28/2002 5:43:09 PM #
...to the guy with the pictures...First of all, congratulations on your purchase...you made the right choice!!! ...God knows I'll do the same VERY soon!

Could you please, share with us a few things I haven't read in any article yet...as for example, how the heck does palm manage to clip on a cover (the one that is supposed to come with the unit) if there's no classic side slot for it to slide in (as for example with the m5xx series)..I mean, what mechanism does palm use in these new machines??

....which i guess is an interesting question 'cause this will be the main mechanism other companies will use to attach new cases for these babies....

RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 8:05:15 PM #
There are little indents on the side of the unit (dead middle on the side) that the curved sides of clear cover latch into. By no means is this robust enough to support anything BUT the clip on cover, so leather cases etc. are back to velcro etc. How to solve the issue of really covering this thing is the largest problem with the unit, but some creative people I am sure will come up with good stuff...

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Does anyone know the Screen Size?
hotpaw4 @ 10/29/2002 10:17:11 AM #
According to my calipers, the diagonal measure of the active display on the Tungsten T is exactly 3 inches, same as on the t615c.

Tungsten T screen vs. Sony T615C

SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 1:30:10 PM #
Here is a pic with both units on full brightness. The camera makes the Sony look brighter than it is, and makes the background whiter than it is (really bluish in real life) while at the same time making the T look dimer than it is and the screen is even whiter than it looks. If you think the T is better, it would look 2 times better in real life.

http://home.attbi.com/~dcorsi/T615vsTungstenT.jpg

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

Virtual Graffiti?

inalaop @ 10/28/2002 1:04:15 PM #
The Tungsten is very nice; sliding graffiti area works well to keep unit small. However, when are we going to see COMPACT OS5 units (Palm or Sony) with virtual graffiti? Yes, battery life is definitely an issue but the added viewable area would help with so many applications and also with practical aspects dealing with such a small screen. Multimedia applications (mpeg etc.) would surely be enhanced with increased screen space.

Example of virtual graffiti enhancement:
http://www.datebk5.com/nr-70-yearview.gif

Yes, I know this is from the larger Sony NR series, but you get the idea. Handera took the lead with virtual graffiti in the past, but of course, is now hampered by it's larger size and no color screen (and older OS). The Sony NR/X series with virtual graffiti are nice, but too large for me and I don't like the swival screen/clam shell design.
My wish list for the 'near-perfect' OS5 unit would have a form factor similar to the Sony SJ30, virtual graffiti, color/high res screen, at least 16 MB RAM, jog dial, MP3 software, headphones, voice recording, etc.
I have a feeling Sony will release an OS5 version of the T665C soon...will be interesting to see what enhancements it has. Realistically, it probably won't have virtual graffiti, but maybe someday. If virtual graffiti in a small palm OS5 unit is not on the horizon anytime soon, I'll probably get the Tungsten maily for it's compact size.

Medical Palm User

RE: Virtual Graffiti?
I_M_Anonymous @ 10/28/2002 5:07:01 PM #
1. the Palm OS 5 doesn't support virtual graffiti natively. Sony had to modify it for NX series. I would assume that Palm will not support virtual graffiti in the forseeable future.
2. Sony will soon release a device similar to T655 form factor but have virtual graffiti.

$500? $100 more buys a new Dell

pissedatpalm @ 10/28/2002 5:35:39 PM #
I have a Vx and have been patiently waiting the new launch of Tungsten. However, my $500 buys 16mb or ram no software to run video?

Alternatively I can keep my Vx and spend $100 more and get a brand new Dell. Monitor, keyboard 1.8Ghz processor...blah, blah, blah. And I'm a Mac person!

Watch the stock tumble....

RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
Cat @ 10/28/2002 5:54:05 PM #
There's obviously a huge difference between a PDA and a Desktop. You can't compare the two AT ALL.
RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
Qube @ 10/28/2002 6:00:02 PM #
Two different beasts altogether. I spent nearly $4000 on my T-Maxx and RS4 (if you know what they are), and for that price, I can get a Suzuki GS500E. Definitely not comparing the same thing.

Argument again... you're not going to shoehorn that (ugh) Dell into your pocket.

RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
pissedatpalm @ 10/28/2002 6:00:44 PM #
You're correct and I'm not really except in price and functionality. I've been anxiously awaiting an iPod like device with 10 gigs that will run video, photos, etc. Perhaps the iPhone will make daylight?

But really $500 and besides Color, the new Palm has little to offer that's new. Except new packaging and a stronger procesor that isn't doing anything yet.

RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
Psikotic @ 10/28/2002 7:39:22 PM #
http://www.archos.com

20Gb and can handle data, pictures, video and music with attachments for camera and card readers.

RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 8:08:28 PM #
T-maxx rocks, I have a fortune into a MFE Losi XXX-T!

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
Taqi @ 10/29/2002 7:54:09 AM #
I agree!

I have waied a long time for T-T and this thing is a dissapointment

1. No auto VFS support.
2. Poorer battery life than the 3800 IPAQ let alone the 2900! Comeone we Palmists used to boast about battery life! Now what, hide our heads in shame!!)
3. No browser!!
4. ONLY 16MB RAM, and everyone kept on saying the reason had something to do with battery life!!! What a joke, the IPAQ has 64 MB and lasts twice as long!
5. You STILL can't multi task
6. And the MP3 software is not built in!

I wanted to buy Palm, I told others to buy Palm I told them to wait for the new Palm I stopped them from buyting IPAQs etc and now this.....

Benhamou should be fired, and the guys at Palm should be told to come out of their bunker into the real world.

It was great owning a Palm but I am fed up of not using handwriting recognition the slow speed when it comes to anything substantial search as using my map of London. My Psion 5mx was faster!! The ages it takes to load things from the SD card, well the Palm only has a one bit connection rather than a 4 bit connection on the new IPAQ. ... I will, God Willing, be moving to one of the new PPC devices and feel really sorry and cheated by Palm for my customer loyalty.

Hah! even the Uni Connector is not uniVERSAL, they should rename it UNIQUE Connector!

Good-bye Palm, a pity you didn't look after the customers who showed you loyalty.



RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
djpedro @ 10/29/2002 11:49:04 AM #
Does anyone actually read? The Tungsten T's battery life is listed as approximately 1 week, the iPaq's as 14 hours. I don't know how the iPaq is "worse" than the Tungsten. And if anyone bothered to read the reviews, battery life is on par with the 515! Come on folks, do a little research before you rant.

RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
ska @ 10/29/2002 12:25:57 PM #
they change it the day after. do you actually believe Tungsten will last one week continuously as in iPAQ's 14 hrs continuously. (which btw is only 10 hrs in official compaq spec) But that is continuous use. instead of that fudgy marketing speak "normal use"

what's more, NX last 10 days VS Tungsten's 7. The NX consition is no backlaight, no music, and half hr a day.

So ... make what you want about that. But I personally hate being peed on and being told it's just rain.

RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
Ce @ 10/29/2002 2:21:49 PM #
To djpedro.....it looks like you didn't read the reviews either;-)

Infosync did a very basic test with the backlight of the TT on max and the first batterywarning came at 2 hours and 48 minutes. The device shut itself off after 3 hours and 24 minutes. They also stated that with the backlight set to appr. 30% the batteries definitely would last longer and would be on par with the 515.

Second....don't compare the "week" indication of Palm with the "hours" indication of other manufacturers. The "week" indication implies a certain amount of minutes per day.

RE: $500? $100 more buys a new Dell
Bakedon21 @ 10/30/2002 1:14:47 PM #
See you back at Palm in about 2-4 weeks. Its doesn't take long. I crossed over and back 2-3 times. Not again until both platforms are next generation. The TT is so fast, multitsking is irrelevent(IMO). And VFS is way fast now. Well see how the MP3 solution works out, but a separate MP3 player has many benefits too (like running/biking). BTW, Tungsten is next gen hardware not OS.

Bill Gates birthday

awdr @ 10/28/2002 5:37:33 PM #
Do you think there is a meaning behind releasing the Tungsten on Bill Gates birthday?

For shure a nice present!

RE: Bill Gates birthday
asiayeah @ 10/29/2002 11:32:02 AM #
So does Bill Gates enjoy his Tungsten T? ;-)

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

Built in Bluetooth in Sony NX60

Morgile @ 10/28/2002 6:02:26 PM #
check it out at http://www.palm.com/products/compare/tungstent-clienx60.html
under "Details" section, in the "Email & Internet Access" line, it says that the NX60 has "built-in Bluetooth wireless technology". A mistake? A truth? A conspiracy?

RE: Built in Bluetooth in Sony NX60
SaabCaptain @ 10/28/2002 8:10:10 PM #
Its a mistake. There were TONS of mistakes in the comparos with the iPAQ which they have slowly been fixing through the day. It is amazing no one proof read this, esp. when the mistake makes your own unit look WORSE.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

T|T is actually the m550!

jcmorganstein @ 10/28/2002 6:22:03 PM #
I handled one of these beauties at a local Staples this evening. Outstanding! Over the past year, I have owned SONY N760C, T615C, and now NR70V. However, this handheld might win me back over to Palm. VERY sturdy overall with the sliding mechanism as strong as other reviewers mentioned. I was extremely impressed by the overall design. A major step up as I was reminiscing about the old III series handhelds...

On a side note, I saw the "m550" logo on the back and thought it was interesting that they have continued the "m" series naming on the handhelds, but are publicly referring to these handhelds as the Tungsten line...

-jcm

Any in Canada Yet???

bro @ 10/28/2002 7:46:36 PM #
Has anyone found any Tungstens in Canada or western Washington? I have been to Future Shop, Staples A&B London etc in Vancouver. I have also called Washington state stores all the way to Seattle and no one has them, most don't even know what it is.
Future Shop said they have just ordered them and have a sku but don't know when they will get. My Vx is now not working and I desperatly need a new Palm.
RE: Any in Canada Yet???
sr @ 10/29/2002 4:17:47 AM #
They're definitely in Canada, handled one myself today in CompuSmart in Victoria (BC), I'm sure other CompuSmarts have them too. The unit is just great!

SR

RE: Any in Canada Yet???
Zippy @ 10/29/2002 11:45:40 AM #
Just bought one at Staples on No. 3 Road in Richmond Last night, they have 2 left. They are not on display. You will have to ask a few people until someone knows what you are talking about.

RE: Any in Canada Yet???
Solo @ 10/29/2002 12:08:55 PM #
Futureshop.ca list it at $799.00 (full price).
But not yet available.

SolopatientlywaitingforTT


RE: Any in Canada Yet???
bro @ 10/29/2002 9:17:24 PM #
Thanks sr found one at CompuSmart Vancouver as you suggested; they sold the two that they had and are FedExing me one fom Montreal so I will have it Wed.
Thanks all.
RE: Any in Canada Yet???
sr @ 10/30/2002 4:06:04 AM #
Glad to hear it, mine is on order too! :)

SR

Got one in Chandler Az

Bakedon @ 10/28/2002 10:14:20 PM #
None at Staples. Found at Circuit City in Chandler. $499 with a $25 rebate. No units were diplayed or prices. 3 were just sitting in the cage. Some impressions that hopefully havent been posted:

- Speed is outstanding. 20-50% faster than T665 at least. VFS is just as fast of an increase, even over the T665. Every app is just "instant". A neat thing is it soft resets in about 4 secs.

- Graffiti is so accurate and fast. The fast graffiti combined with the fast app speed make it much more pleasureable than the inaccurate T655 and even better than the good m515.

- Sizewise about a draw compared to m515. Too soon to tell the value of the slider, so far its proving a bit more complicated to operate (just a bit). Can be set to Shut Off when closed, and On when opened.

- Fonts, backlight and quality are outstanding too. Design and build quality is very BMW-like.

- Worth $500? Not sure about this just yet. Even though the T665 felt like a "hack job" (I was never satisfied and went back to a m505 in a drawer), its a pretty good value compared to this.

- Apps that dont work or lock up (may just be the unit):

Pocket Quicken - Locks up after a few secs
Reader - (for Covey books, not Palm reader): wont open books, locks up)
Balance Log - Locks up in any database
Galax - Tiny screen from the pixel doubling
(Probably any game that you had to set th Sony to not go HiRes). So far Ive not found a HiRes helper like the Sony.
SimCity - Cant scroll left or right
WorldWar - Cant see armies or symbols


- Good apps:
BackupBuddyVFS
McFile
Agendus
DateBk5
DateBk3
City Time

RE: Got one in Chandler Az
Jawa @ 10/29/2002 1:58:29 AM #
Bakedon maybe a question you'll be able to answer:

I was looking forward to purchase a Tungsten, but since I am a bit user of Avantgo & Pocketquicken, I think I'll wait until the compatibility issues are resolved. However, I read that PocketQuicken 2.02 is supposed to be compatible with OS 5. What version are your Using ?

Thanks for your Help !

RE: Got one in Chandler Az
jeffmwknight @ 10/29/2002 11:18:30 AM #
Here is the link to Third Party Product Compatiblity for Tungsten T.

http://www.palm.com/support/tungstent/compatibility.html

RE: Got one in Chandler Az
Bakedon21 @ 10/29/2002 11:57:41 AM #
Im using 2.01 (build 0062). I think it may have something to do with I copied the .prc and data from my SD from the 505. I deleted it and reinstalled it freash and it doesnt lock up so far. I've havent synced Quicken data to it yet.

RE: Got one in Chandler Az
Jawa @ 10/29/2002 3:39:53 PM #
Thanks for the link, but PocketQuicken was not listed I check before asking.
Now, regarding Pocketquicken, version 2.02 Free upgrade was supposed to be compatible with OS5. So if you running it with troubles you can give it a try !

Again Thanks for your reply !

multiple apps?

FunkyMonkeyPSM @ 10/28/2002 11:15:04 PM #
does anyone know if it is possible to run multiple applications at once... say listening to mp3s while working in my date book?
=aron=

Java Support?

donpdonp @ 10/28/2002 11:52:15 PM #
Months ago, PalmOS 5 was said to come with the Jeode Java environment. Noone has mentioned Java in the reviews. Can someone confirm if the Tungsten T comes with or without a Java runtime?

RE: Java Support?
legalalien @ 10/29/2002 12:57:40 AM #
TT comes without Java runtime. PalmSource has only announced that they're working with Insignia to come up with a JVM, but I have not heard of the actual release to licensees.

Incompatible with many medical programs

quantmann @ 10/29/2002 12:02:27 AM #
If you are a physician user, watch out. I bought one today and I was very disappointed to find my Harrisons Manual on PDA not working: the text will not show up. The ATP-3 (cholesterol guideline) also will not run. The American Colloege of Cardiology guideline program runs, but it is very slow and it looks "off". I think Palm rushed the OS 5 out without giving adequate time or resource to make sure that third party softwares are compatible. I advise you to check the list of softwares before your purchase(http://www.palm.com/support/tungstent/compatibility.html).

RE: Incompatible with many medical programs
bcombee @ 10/29/2002 1:53:27 AM #
I disagree with the idea that PalmSource rushed the OS. There have been builds of Palm OS 5 available for developers since last December, with a public SDK released back in March. There have been ample opportunities for developers to test their application both on the simulator and on development boards at PalmSource events. They had to break some things to go forward, but they've been giving guidelines for compatibility to people since the end of 2000 at the PalmSource show.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Incompatible with many medical programs
asiayeah @ 10/29/2002 3:09:00 AM #
Even though PalmSource has released the Palm OS 5.0 for developers to test for a long while, they are not able to provide an easy migration path for some existing Palm OS applications. For example, the OS 5 will need to provide a new trap mechanisms to OS 5 applications to patch the OS in some ways. They do provide some notification mechanisms, however, that does not solve the needs to all existing OS 4 applications.

Another example is that most language overlay software (such as a Chinese OS) will NOT work on Palm OS 5.

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

Medical programs???
Ces @ 10/29/2002 7:17:41 AM #
Anybody know about the most common medical programs (which don't even appear on the "supported/non-supported" section)....I'm reffering to Handheldmed's reader for medical books, Skyscape's, Franklin's, etc..not to mention Isilo, TomeRaider & others....I know MobiPocket works though....they recently upgrades their reader to the 4.5 version, which is OS 5 ready.

...any info on all the others???

RE: Incompatible with many medical programs
quantmann @ 10/29/2002 5:14:36 PM #
I spoke to the Unbound Med people re: Harrisons Handheld edition. They released a fixed version and now it is working fine on the Tungsten. Just for the records.

ToDo's capabilities

labalanguera @ 10/29/2002 6:04:47 AM #
I read all comments about this new T superb device, but I could not find any of them regarding ToDo's issue.
I think to have understood from Palm's web that ToDo native app. on OS 5 still cannot handle repeating Items. Anyone who can confirm this ? Is it possible that we will have to keep on looking for 3rd party's app. for such an "easy to mend" lack ?

L.

RE: ToDo's capabilities
Bakedon21 @ 10/29/2002 12:01:19 PM #
Todo appears the same in every way. Only the version number changed. Bummer, I dont understand that and the memo limit. Oh well, back to using ReDo.

Got mine at Staples in Maryland

Fingerhead @ 10/29/2002 10:08:29 AM #
I picked up the Tungsten at Staples in suburban DC. Staples had it for $468. Each store had 2 and they went fast. I was there at 8 am Monday and 1 person was in front of me already.
I've been using the M515 since it came out and I liked it a lot. But, 320 x 320, bluetooth and (coming) multimedia capability are a big draw.

Impressions:
Plus:

It's fast. Apps launch in a blink, even from the card
Great colors, and brightness control. It's a slider rather than just low/high as on M515.
The navigator is great for getting around.
Feels great in the hand. Thicker, but solid.

Minus?
The slider will take some getting used to. I thought it would be smoother.
There is a clear plastic cover that clips over the front for protection. It's sort of cumbersome to put it on and take it off. Not like the easy flip covers, but I'm sure someone will invent one soon.
Thought my travel charger would work, but it doesn't.

All in all, I'm pleased with the unit. I'll be happier when I bluetooth it to my PC, and when all my apps are working.

RE: Got mine at Staples in Maryland
hkklife @ 10/29/2002 11:12:00 AM #
Fingerhead (or anyone else who's already bought their Tungsten T), can you elaborate any on the apps that were not working? Did you try any games on it (well, ones that are not listed Palm's list of compatible programs?)

Why does the travel charger not work? On my m505, the travel charger had a VERY loose fit onto the bottom of the unit so I doubt I'd miss it too much if I sold it along with the 505...

Do the hardware buttons have as good of a feel to them as the m5xx series ones?

Is it easy to press the center pad in the wrong direction (ie, push a diagonal when you just wanted to scroll to the left or right)?

What was the largest program/file that you launched using VFS?


RE: Got mine at Staples in Maryland
Fingerhead @ 10/29/2002 11:43:02 AM #
Sim City color does not work for me. Some apps need new registration information even though they are purchased and registered - Action Names and 2sky for instance.

AvantGo has given me numerous fatal errors. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't...

The buttons have a nice feel, but they have slightly different graphics.

Slider: I find myself leaving it open most of the time but for transport,it's convenient to close it.

The travel charger (not Palm brand) just pops back out when I insert it. Like it's spring loaded. I'll try it again, but I'm not hopeful.

If I hadn't owned any other Palm, this model would probably just knock me out. But as it is, it'll take some time to reach the comfort level I had with the M515.

Given the price of this thing I find I'm reluctanct to put stylus to screen. I wonder if Palm took into account the scratch fear to price ratio.

RE: Got mine at Staples in Maryland
GKreamer @ 10/29/2002 1:19:05 PM #
ActNames bases its keycode on the serial number of your unit...

RE: Got mine at Staples in Maryland
hkklife @ 10/29/2002 2:09:23 PM #
Thanks for the feedback. I really wish Avantgo would go ahead and release an updated client for OS 5. I've been very close to paying for their service recently, but promised myself I'd only do it if/when they got their act together with the client software updates and addressed VFS, high-res, and OS 5 in a timely manner.

What a bummer about SimCity--I had really looked forward to playing that one with a better screen and some more powerful hardware and behind it .

Did the store where you bought it have any accessories or anything else Tungsten-specific in stock or just the units?



early benchmarking

hotpaw4 @ 10/29/2002 10:26:18 AM #
I found a Tungsten T in stock at the local Franklin Covey store yesterday. When you hold a T, it feels even smaller than it looks from the pictures. The display is whiter than the one on my t615c, which is slightly blueish. The backlight on the T is brighter than the t615c at all comparative settings (min and max), *and* the T display has much better contrast with the backlight off.

After a 2 hour charge, I tried running a few simple benchmarks using my Basic interpreter: <http://www.hotpaw.com/rhn/hotpaw > This is currently 100% 68k code with almost no OS calls. Generic integer code appears to run 30% to 40% faster on a T than on a t615c (33MHz Dragonball), but floating point and MathLib intensive function calculations appear to run over 4 times faster. All the PalmOS graphics calls appeared much more than 2x faster, but I don't have any measurements yet.

For comparison, the 68k emulator on a 1994 66 MHz PowerMac 7100 benchmarked around 3 times faster than a 16 MHz Mac SE/30 running Chipmunk Basic. So the PACE 68k emulator on a 144 MHz ARM OMAP appears to have similar performance to that of MacOS a 66 MHz PPC601. Not too bad for a battery powered device that fits in a pocket.

The WebProV web browser in on the included CD. No mp3 software (but the Palm web site says one is in under development).

RE: early benchmarking
hotpaw4 @ 10/30/2002 2:54:45 PM #
Initial battery life test: On but mostly idle, backlight on low, my T lasted 4.5 hours till the first low battery warning.

Amazon doesn't carry the Tungsten

HJones @ 10/29/2002 12:04:55 PM #
I haven't been able to locate the Palm Tungsten on Amazon.com. Maybe they plan on not selling it.

RE: Amazon doesn't carry the Tungsten
Fingerhead @ 10/29/2002 1:15:15 PM #
Try www.shopper.com
Use the search box on the upper right and enter Palm Tungsten. You'll get a list of about 10 internet sources. Don't bother sorting by price though - they're all $499
RE: Amazon doesn't carry the Tungsten
stoof @ 10/29/2002 10:59:11 PM #
Harmony Computers in New York has the Tungsten T listed on their web site for $449, but they also have a notice that there is a 1 week back order. I'm not sure about shipping charges, though.

Exchange

fabermit @ 10/29/2002 2:23:16 PM #
tought it come with an MS Exchange client?

Cradle connection wobbly?

HJones @ 10/29/2002 2:23:05 PM #
Has anyone noticed if the cradle connection is wobbly or not due to the new TT form factor? Will I be able to get a compatible travel charger for the road?

RE: Cradle connection wobbly?
meridius @ 10/30/2002 2:36:08 AM #
The cradle connection is excellent. The unit seats and unseats effortlessly with no wobble. The bottom contour matches that of the cradle.

My only wish is for a very small case or cover to hit retail to replace the snap on cover. I liked the leather flip cover on my m500, and I'll miss it. At least the plastic cover provided will protect the screen, leaving the navigation button accessible through an open circle.

RE: Cases
HJones @ 10/30/2002 10:31:05 AM #
I'd like to see Rhinoskin issue a titanium case to protect my investment. Now that would be great!

RE: Cradle connection wobbly?
djeffery @ 11/1/2002 1:08:44 AM #
In response to the original post, yes, I've also noticed some wobble to the cradle connection. It is certainly true that the contour of the Tungsten and that of the cradle are well matched, but the bottom of the Tungsten doesn't sit on the top of the cradle's lip. I stuck my m505 in the Tungsten cradle for comparison, and noticed that it also wobbles. It wobbles quite a bit less, though, and the charging light never went out as I moved it (unlike what I've seen with the Tungsten). However, the Tungsten does seem to seat securely and well in the cradle, despite the wobble. Other than while testing it before responding to this post, I've only noticed the charging light going out while opening the Tunsten to access the Graffiti area (and then only briefly).

As for a travel charger, though, my wife has the Palm-branded travel charger for her m505 (which I assume works for the Tunsten too), and it REALLY has a wobble problem. I found it to be rather unreliable due to the relatively poor fit between the cable and the m505s.

David

Underclocked?

Aesiq @ 10/29/2002 3:35:50 PM #
As a long time user of many overclocking utilities, is it possible that the processor is still a 175 MHz but underclocked to achieve better battery life?

Normally when overclocking you drain more power and risk damage to the CPU but if this is underclocked, then the damage factor is nullified and you can decide how much juice you want to consume. I'll take a 20% speed improvement since I charge daily, almost continuously.

Hopefully someone with the expertise can prove me right or wrong.


One month and counting!

DenHoff @ 10/29/2002 4:11:56 PM #
With all of the new PDAs coming "very soon now", I have decided to wait one month to see what's available then. Despite the fact that it is hard making this decision, I know that in one month, the PDA landscape is going to be very different. This will also be enough time for accurate information to emerge about software and hardware compatibility with the T-T. It will also give Palm one month to come up with an mp3 player and a video player, both of which should have been in the initial release.

Dell, Viewsonic and HP will have new models on the market in the next few weeks and all will offer transflective displays. The new H5455 from HP has built-in BT, Wi-Fi but it also has a $699 retail price. The new H1910 (48M RAM and 16MB Flash) will retail at $329, but might be heavily discounted once Dell and Viewsonic release their under $300 PDAs.

If these PDAs manage to offer high-quality, a stunning display and a low price, Palm is going to have a hard time maintaining its significant lead in PDA sales.

I have never owned a PocketPC! I have owned a Palm Pilot, a IIIC and I current own a m505 which I purchased new when they were released. I have a large investment in Palm software so I really want the T-T to be sucessful! Perhaps one month from now, the smoke will have cleared and the right decision will make itself obvious to me.

If at that time, I find my Palm keyboard lacks the proper driver and my external charger is not compatible and Palm has still not released software to support multimedia, I will finally consider an HP or Viewsonic PDA (never Dell!)

RE: One month and counting!
shawkyns @ 10/29/2002 6:49:06 PM #
Well, I too have thought about this decision lately. In my case, I think that I MUST stick with the palm OS, simply because it integrates better with the programs that I use on my main computer. I found that the PPC devices work really well, IF you use outlook and other MS programs. But I do not. I have eudora for email, quicken for finance, and prefer the simplicity of the palm desktop for schedules (although I wish the contact info was more robust).

I tried using outlook, but I absolutely hated it, capital H, and could find no way to get info from eudora into the PPC, so back it went.

Now the decision is between the tungsten or the sony NR/NX. It is a shame that these are more expensive then the PPC though, for the price point, the hardware is first rate. If only I could get rhe programs I needed on the platform, I would switch, until then, palm.

RE: One month and counting!
Rhauer @ 10/29/2002 6:57:26 PM #
I agree. I will buy a new unit in around a month but I'm staying with Palm OS. I want to get my email on the run so I guess I'm leaning to the TT. Disappointed they aren't including headphones (the wand on my Clie 760 is awesome, Palm should have copied it) and it doesn't have a strong IR. ) Maybe Sony will have some more announcements in the next month. - w/Bluetooth?????????????????????????

RE: One month and counting!
DenHoff @ 10/29/2002 8:40:32 PM #
I would like to add that I really wanted to purchase a T-T from the moment I saw it. The the local Franklin and Covey store has one on hold for me until tomorrow, but as I said, I will now put it off.

Normally, I want the latest and greatest, but I swore that if Palm failed to keep compatibility with existing perhiperals, that would be all I needed to jump ship. I am amazed that the driver for my Palm keyboard isn't available on launch. I am amazed that there should be any concern whether the travel charger from my m505 will work or not. Breaking badly written software is one thing, but there simply can be no excuse for any hardware issues like this. I am an engineer with 30 years of hardware and software experience and there simply is no excuse for this. I can hear Palm people now saying "Gee, I thought you had tested that!"

I wish Palm would take the inititive to post someone in this forum to answer questions like this and and make an effort to assure us that they did not rush the T-T to market and that they know what they are doing.

I also think it is curious that when I called to check on the T-T at CompUSA, I was told that the part is not in their computers and there is no ETA.

RE: One month and counting!
sr @ 10/30/2002 4:09:54 AM #
The problem with the keyboard is the driver, not the hardware. I'm sure they will have an update for it.

I've been also thinking of waiting to see what happens, but I'm pretty sure that a unit this small with built-in Bluetooth is not going to come from anyone else anytime soon. And the screen is what really sold me on it, it's better than any PDA screen I've seen before (and I've seen a lot of them). You remember how people used to say that after looking at a PocketPC screen, Palm screens looked so pixelated and underwhelming? Well, that's how I feel about my iPaq screen now. And I can live without virtual graffitti since we do get the benefit of smaller PDA size.

I can still cancel my order for TT, but I probably won't.

SR

RE: One month and counting!
TheMoo @ 10/30/2002 7:39:17 AM #
My T-T is coming today from the Palm Store-free shipping and one day delivery. I hope that its delivered EARLY in the day. I checked the major stores and they are not displaying the device. This is just like the good old days. The navigator really sounds Way COOL!!!! Next step.........how do I get my sweaty hands on a BT phone.........oops....I dropped my cell phone........OH NO! it doesn't appear to be Working.......

RE: One month and counting!
DenHoff @ 10/30/2002 11:13:40 AM #
How do you spell "Waffle?"

After spending hours last night reading the forums here and at Brighthand, my will power caved on me. I decided it was better to get one, form my own opinions, test my software and decide then.

I just ordered a T-T from Palm. They offer a 30-day money-back guarantee, no tax in my state and they were kind enough to offer free overnight shipping.

If Palm fails to deliver a driver for my Palm keyboard, then I will sell it and get the new one. If the T-T fails to meet my expectation, back it will go.

RE: One month and counting!
DenHoff @ 10/31/2002 10:28:00 PM #
OK, as promised, my T-T arrived today. After a good two hour charge, I installed the newest software on my PC, sync'd up and reinstalled all of my major apps. Of course, I have not tried to install any hacks so little things were left behind, but so far, everything has worked just fine and smoothly.

Most of the reviews and pro/con statements have been fairly accurate. I would like to confirm that the display is beautiful, the speed welcome, great battery life compared to my m505 and overall, I am very pleased with the m550.

As one reviewer indicated, the only weak link with the D-pad is that there is no way to drop a menu and make
selections using the D-pad. There are great opportunities for enterprising programmers to enhance the functional it of the D-pad and make it as useful as a real stylus.

I also hope that Landware comes out with a replacement stylus with a floating point. I have used there stylus for two years now and it never left a scratch on my 505 screen (no protector) and the 505 screen looks as good today as the day I purchased it. If Palm's stylus can even come close, I will be happy. However, if Landware can make a replacement, then I'm there.

PPC user seriously considering Tungsten T

palmsolo @ 10/29/2002 5:10:49 PM #
I write for PDAGeek and regularly read and link to PalmInfocenter. I used Palm devices from 1997 until 2001 before switching to the Pocket PC as my primary device. I always have said I was open to whatever device fit my needs and was willing to give both a chance. Now with the release of the first Palm OS5 device and little innovation in the Pocket PC arena (although they may not really need much more innovation) I am seriously checking out the Tungsten T. I am also a review for Pocket PC Life and if I switch back then I would have to leave that site and try to find a Palm site to conduct reviews. I do love using my Pocket PC and have had my Jornada 568 for over a year now, the longest I have ever had a single device. Maybe I'm just getting bored and want a new device and I wish I could afford both.

I think the only thing holding me back is that I don't like the way Palm handles external storage cards. I like the way I can store the majority of my apps on my CF card and access it like it was RAM. Will OS5 have an update that will allow you to access the SD card this way? Any other Pocket PC users out there who have some advice?

I also just got the Danger Sidekick so accessing email and the internet is not my intended function with my PDA.

RE: PPC user seriously considering Tungsten T
Admin @ 10/29/2002 5:24:54 PM #
The one thing that always bothered me about the Palm OS was the slowness of accessing/using expansion cards. I like the way they are handeled on PPC's, the good thing about the Tungsten and OS 5 devices is the speed of using SD expansion cards is greatly improved and is *almost* comparible to onboard ram now.

Apps still access storage cards in much the same way, but the speed improvements make it much less of a hassle now, IMHO.

So there is still not real native file system like browser for exploring your cards, but there are third party apps that do that well. Launcher replacements will also give you the ability to mix & match apps in categories, no matter where they are stored. The palm install tool now lets you send non-palm files like jpg's & mp3s to the Storage cards, the same way you load prc's.

RE: PPC user seriously considering Tungsten T
BTS @ 10/29/2002 8:00:32 PM #
I had really wanted to try the Tungsten T but at $799 CDN???? If they included the MP3 player I may have been willing to make the plunge.

The biggest factor, however, is that I have to agree that I'm not a fan of the file system on the Palm. I am so used to using my PPC to store apps on the card that I'm not sure how I would do that using a Palm. Certainly if I could install apps on the card, access them from the launcher, and run the program then I might be thinking differently about purchasing the TT (which IMHO is a REALLY nice looking machine!).

Any word if there would be a WMA player? I like how I can get twice the number of music files on my PPC by using this format.

RE: PPC user seriously considering Tungsten T
dokall @ 10/30/2002 7:17:22 AM #
Hell fellow Canadian

For a better price point go to directdial.com - then the canadian site and once they have the tungsten in stock the price is around $740 CAD - print this out and take it to futureshop or staples for a price match.

The only questions I have are with respect to the mp3 capabilities - when a player is available will it be able to play in the background, will the screen be able to be turned off while the mp3 player is running, will there be an external "wand" control for the player (not likely).

As long as it will play in the background while working in other apps and if the screen can be turned off while listening to music, then fine. If not I think this will be a problem. I am selling my NR70, but will certainly wait until these details start to emerge.

Take it easy - Al from Canada

Bluetooth question

WhoDat @ 10/30/2002 10:43:53 AM #
In considering the Tungsten I was wondering how easy it would be to use Bluetooth to surf the web.

If I get a Bluetooth adaptor for my PC which has broadband access could I then use that access with the Tungsten?

Also, I currently have an 802.11 network at home. If I install the Bluetooth adaptor on a PC that uses the broadband via 802.11 could I use the Tungsten Bluetooth when near that computer?


RE: Bluetooth question
Zuber @ 10/30/2002 12:34:38 PM #
I don't have any WiFi studd at all, but from what I have read, hear goes.

You should be able to use a Bluetooth PC with your Palm to access the net, assuming that the Palm and the Bluetooth device on the PC both support the Networkign Profile. PC should, but I don't know about the Tungsten. You probably have to use Internet connection sharing or something on the PC to do it.

The WiFi and Bluetooth should work on the same PC as well. The main problem I think you need to keep in mind, is that the Bluetooth support on the Palm is in the low range class. So that's 10 meters in open space. Unless you live in an appartment or something, I doubt you would get enough range to be able to wanter around the house or anything.

The question I have, is what kind of results do you get, if the device that is sending most data (the PC) has 100 Meter range and the device mostly recieving data (Palm) has a 10 meter range.

Since the data being sent from the Palm is minimal, would you in reality be able to use it at significantly more than 10 meters at a substantially reduced bandwidth.

Zuber

RE: Bluetooth question
Zuber @ 10/30/2002 12:45:11 PM #
Sorry about all the typos. I just read what I posted. Most forums have an edit option that I use heavily.

Zuber

RE: Bluetooth question
sr @ 10/30/2002 3:04:35 PM #
FWIW: I've tested the Bluetooth in the store with my GPRS/BT Fido phone (T39). Keep in mind that GPRS maxes out around 56k, nowhere near broadband. It took about 5 minutes of tinkering to get the preferences setup, but when it started working it was really sweet. It was a lot faster than my Blackberry or the IR setup I've used with Palm and PocketPC before. While the screen is still too narrow to render a whole page width-wise, the browser folds them vertically so there is no horizontal scrolling. The web pages looked really nice, images were crips, it was actually enjoyable looking at it (which has never been my experience with wireless web access).

BT maxes out around 1 mbps, but if you get 10% of that speed with your setup I would say things should work well. Just keep in mind that BT range is not that great.

SR

Anyone run Hacks Yet

bro @ 10/30/2002 7:04:39 PM #
I have not yet tried any of my Palm Vx installed Hacks; Middle Caps; PopUp Calculator; Easy Launch; MultiClip, run with Hackmaster.
Has anyone tried?
PS programs working fine = HandBase & Think DB with huge databases (over 1 meg) Handyshopper, TextPlus, Daynotes.

RE: Anyone run Hacks Yet
bro @ 10/30/2002 8:57:12 PM #
Correction TextPlus does not work, nor do any of my Hacks.

Anyone notice that it says m550 on the back?

JFM3 @ 11/11/2002 4:34:28 PM #
i just noticed today that under "made in china" it says m550. I thought this was pretty cool just cause i guessed that m550 would be the name of the new device. But palm wanted to go with TT. I just got mine on friday and I love it!

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