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Comments on: High-Res, OS 5 Ready Docs to Go Included with the Tungsten T

DataViz and Palm, Inc. announced that DataViz's Documents To Go Professional Edition Version 5 will be included with the new Palm Tungsten T. This is the first Palm OS 5 handheld to ship with the ability to use Microsoft Word, Excel, and PowerPoint compatible files in the box.
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Killer App

Gekko @ 10/29/2002 6:22:58 PM #
The "Killer App" for me is the Hi-Res spreadsheet. I can't wait to upgrade from my m515 and finally be able to fit a huge spreadsheet on my screen.

RE: Killer App
madmaxmedia @ 10/29/2002 7:11:10 PM #
I think you'll really like it (I've been using hi-res Clie's for a little while now.)

What is really important is to have a flexible zoom option, I think Docs to Go's implementation is pretty good. I would like 1 or 2 more steps though. Small is too small for me to really view with any comfort.

I love being able to view and edit multi-sheet spreadsheets as well.

RE: Killer App
james_sorenson @ 10/29/2002 7:47:55 PM #
Now that Hi-Res is finally becoming standard, another Office Suite shoot-out may be in order. So far, I have always preferred QuickOffice. I know that it supports Hi-Res in the Clie's, but haven't seen it. I'd like to see how the two Office Suite's compare on a hi-res screen.

My only serious problem with Sheets To Go is that it always felt like it was a viewer with editing hacked into it. Creating a new spreadsheet and adding new complex functions on my Palm was always a little hit & miss. Quicksheet was just eaiser.

Well, whatever my preference, I'm just glad that Palm is finally bundling an Office Suite of some kind. Let's face it, it's becoming more common for the average Joe to want to be able to sync Word documents out of the box. I honestly think that is one reason the PPC gained marketshare. Good move, Palm!



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James Sorenson

RE: Killer App
Zippy @ 10/29/2002 8:05:04 PM #
I have reg'ed copies of Quickoffice and Docs to go on my NR70V and Palm Tungsten. I find it hard to pick a favorite, that's why I have both on. Some days I lean towards doc to go, the next day Quickoffice. In general though, I prefer quicksheet to Sheet to go.

RE: Killer App
Tungster Tee @ 10/30/2002 2:32:04 AM #
The standard version came with my NX60...WOW! With the 328x480 screen it feels like I am using my laptop! If you havent used ThinkDB/Smartlist yet you need to give it a try...It is awesome. I keep MSaccess databases literaly in the 'palm of my hand'

God bless Jeff Hawkins! (The creator of our beloved palm OS)

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS!

No need to upgrade to the Premium Edition

fcardona @ 10/29/2002 8:47:15 PM #
I guess we'll all have to see the new VersaMail client working in the Tungsten, but from early comments from PDABuzz.com:

"Palm supplies VersaMail, a multi-POP3 e-mail client that lets you view attachments like Word and images." http://forums.pdabuzz.net/showthread.php?s=4bb850a919baa39950b05063390f50eb&threadid=43105

...and Infosync's preliminary review:

"VersaMail also supports attachment conversion for certain types of files. MS Word, MS Excel, and MS Powerpoint files can be automatically converted during the HotSync process to and from DataViz Documents To Go format. Documents To Go Professional is included with the device. Other formats are not currently converted, but third party developers can develop plugins to support other file types, such as images" http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495,3.html

This should be great! Versamail is filling in for some of what the Premium Edition does.

Let's hope this proves to be true. I guess when Ryan/Ed do the review of the T|T they'll test this functionality :) Of course, there will be people who need to see pictures and other attachments, but for an extra $30.00? It all depends...the mission critical ones at least have been covered for now.

Cheers...

FC


RE: No need to upgrade to the Premium Edition
Altema @ 10/30/2002 12:15:23 AM #
I wonder if VersaMail is available separately.

RE: No need to upgrade to the Premium Edition
Fly-By-Night @ 10/30/2002 6:29:47 AM #
VersaMail is the new name for MultiMail, whom I think Palm(Source?) purchased some time ago. Thus, I suspect it will be available for others to use.

FBN

RE: No need to upgrade to the Premium Edition
Zuber @ 10/30/2002 12:50:17 PM #
I read that multimail could read native Word files.

Is that possible with the new version, and is it any good.

Zuber

Native formats yet?!

jho4thclie @ 10/29/2002 9:15:05 PM #
See subject line.

Can version 5.0 use .doc, .xls, etc. files from the memory stick yet?

Doubt it, but hey... Might as well ask! ;-)

Putting on my flame-retardant suit,
jho4thclie

-JWH

RE: Native formats yet?!
Wolvy @ 10/29/2002 11:42:34 PM #
Yes ... is the answer. Docs to Go supports the various apps being stored on the VFS.
One thing to remember is that the actual Docs to Go cannot be stored on VFS. Also, you have to copy the apps to VFS and then delete from internal memory rather than just move them there.
Works a treat and the only space taken on internal memory is approx 475k + files.

Wolvy
RE: Native formats yet?!
cscullion @ 10/30/2002 8:41:03 AM #
No, DTG does not yet support native files on VFS. This would truly be a killer app if it could do this.

As the previous poster said, you can move MOST of the DTG programs to VFS, leaving only the "Documents" program... the one that lets you pick which file to work with.

Chris Scullion

Speed

Massman82 @ 10/29/2002 10:06:48 PM #
Is the spellchecking speed (If there is any, I haven't used Doc 2 Go for a while...) any faster?

If there's no spellchecker... then what are the benchmarks?

Roman Pedan
Palm V/Vx
Will get a Palm OS 5 handheld

RE: Speed
Tungster Tee @ 10/30/2002 2:45:03 AM #
I can tell you that doing a search in ThinkDB that used to take 1-2 seconds on my IIIc is now instantaneous. Changing from screen to screen in apps is also instantaneous. Video playback is now identical to my portable DVD player.

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS!
RE: Speed
Pathdoc @ 10/30/2002 7:54:37 AM #
As an owner of DTG ver 5.01 Premium, I can tell you that there is NO spellchecker in version 5.

RE: Speed
james_sorenson @ 10/30/2002 12:19:05 PM #
ReallY? No spell-checker? That's sort of surprising. I wonder if some of the 3rd-party add-on spell-checkers will work on the Tungsten T(they are sort of a hack).

Oh well. One point to QuickOffice. I have a spell-checker and thesaurus in QuickWord 6.

Jim

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James Sorenson

What About...?

dbmoyers2 @ 10/29/2002 10:19:35 PM #
What about DateBk 5 and Agendus, do they support OS 5 hi-res. I have been testing both. Have not made a final decision. Both have pro's and con's. This is an important app for my needs. Any feedback would be appreciated.

RE: What About...?
SaabCaptain @ 10/29/2002 10:30:08 PM #
Newest version of Agendus supports OS 5 high-res, it works great on the T.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: What About...?
Tungster Tee @ 10/30/2002 2:42:35 AM #
Remember that the old Sony OS4.1 hi res apps don't work properly in OS5. you have to use the old lo-res versions and they are now emulated in hi-res on OS5.

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS!

doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?

carioca76 @ 10/30/2002 12:52:26 AM #
I just checked their site (sony.com) & the new clie with os 5 says dataviz standard doc to go. How is palm the first to release os 5 with doc to go?
RE: doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?
Tungster Tee @ 10/30/2002 2:38:21 AM #
As a matter of fact the NX60 was on the shelf at fry's on the 25th...with OS5 AND Docs to go...Duh palm, check your facts please. Love my NX 60...got a TT with a bad D-pad...took it back and got an NX. So far the batt life is better than my IIIc.

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS!
RE: doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?
cscullion @ 10/30/2002 8:45:37 AM #
Read the actual release above... Palm says the Tungsten T is the first PALM with OS5, not the first PDA with OS5. Also, TT ships with DTG Pro, not DTG standard.

Chris Scullion
RE: doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?
cyn @ 10/30/2002 8:56:32 AM #
[i]This is the first Palm OS 5 handheld to ship with the ability to use Microsoft Word, Excel, and PowerPoint compatible files in the box.[i]

does DTG standard not provide that functionality?
just curious, if it does it supports the 'NX WAS FIRST@!!!@$!" argument

[:)]

RE: doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?
cscullion @ 10/30/2002 10:35:18 AM #
Once again... NO. The DTG Standard Edition does not support Powerpoint files. That's the version Sony ships. Palm ships the Professional Edition, which DOES support Powerpoint.

So, Palm is still right... they're the first PALM (brand) device with OS5 and Word, Excel, and Powerpoint support.

Chris Scullion

RE: doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?
Scott R @ 10/30/2002 10:37:24 AM #
I think you guys are missing something. I don't believe that the NX series is "officially" out yet, whereas the Tungsten T is. As such, they can get away with claiming theirs as the first.

Scott

RE: doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?
Admin @ 10/30/2002 11:30:11 AM #
Well they are both announced now. Sony announced first, but Palm is actually in stores (and hands) now :)
RE: doesn't clie nx have doc to go & os5?
Tungster Tee @ 10/30/2002 12:56:06 PM #
My NX has been in my hands since the 25th...wide screen music videos in stereo...I had to wipe the drool off the screen! The NX truly rocks. Movie anyone? I'll pop the popcorn :)

ThinkDB/Smartlist is the killer app of Palm OS!

I just hope...

Roberto_tores @ 10/30/2002 7:12:51 AM #
I just hope they add charting support for the standard version, paying a premium (pun intended) for the premium version just to have graphics is painful.


Also I wich old features of the 4 version of Word To Go(like hyperlinks, tables of content and support for cirylic charaters) are brought back.

D2G Highs and Lows

LiveFaith @ 10/30/2002 8:18:24 AM #
Docs2Go is awesome in increasing the value of the Palm platform and that is well documented. Hi-res is even better. Keyboard support is now finally excellent. Those are the obvious highs.

The lows to be aware of:
#1 Hotsyncing is unstable and SD card support is suspect. My m505 and v4 or v5 of D2G cannot consistently hotsync files to RAM and SD. Connection is lost about 50-75% of the time forcing a re-sync. This is NOT a localized problem and even their Tech support gave up and said the software is limited and offered a refund. I know others with this exact glitch. Had I not desperately needed D2G, this would be too much.

#2 Word2Go cannot Copy/Cut & paste to other applications or even documents! Yep, what's there is there to stay and not be shared.

#3 Hotsyncing 20-50 documents is just flat out Tyrannasaurus-Rex SLOW! Even when only 1 or 2 docs has been modified, the overhead of checking all of them adds minutes to the hotsync. I know, you can disable/enable D2G in hotsync, but this is another headache.

Overall this is a great product, but even v5 has some serious issue that need attention.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: D2G Highs and Lows
cscullion @ 10/30/2002 8:48:43 AM #
I, too, have experienced all of thes problems. I'll include another:

#4 - DTG word processor cannot keep up with my typing on an attached keyboard. I actually have to keep Wordsmith around to create new documents or to make major modifications to existing documents. I hope this gets fixed soon.

Chris Scullion

RE: D2G Highs and Lows
cwalexan @ 10/30/2002 10:45:47 AM #
I, too, have had problems with D2G syncing. In fact, I have only a single document, which is a multi-sheet Excel file, (>3MB). What I found, or have rather guessed, is that the syncing problems I have had have been a result of a rather slow "Generating handheld view" process taking place during the Hotsync, resulting in a timeout and failed Hotsync. If I remember to manually remove and add back the document in DTG prior to Hotsync-ing (and as of late, I'm not Hotsync-ing much at all, so for me this is a fair compromise), I have had no issues.

Are you experiences similar, or are there other Hotsync-ing issues I have not yet seen?

RE: D2G Highs and Lows
macshimidh @ 10/30/2002 11:39:58 AM #
What version of Hotsync Manager are you running? We saw some of these problems at my work, and updating to Hotsync Manager v4.0.1 (free download from Palm) cleared them up.
DataViz Response - RE: D2G Highs and Lows
scottyt @ 10/30/2002 11:58:08 AM #
Hi, we've been reviewing these threads and I wanted to comment on a few things.

Scott Thomas
DataViz, Inc.


////////////////////////////////////////////////
#1 Hotsyncing is unstable and SD card support is suspect. My m505 and v4 or v5 of D2G cannot consistently hotsync files to RAM and SD. Connection is lost about 50-75% of the time forcing a re-sync. This is NOT a localized problem and even their Tech support gave up and said the software is limited and offered a refund. I know others with this exact glitch. Had I not desperately needed D2G, this would be too much. ////////////////////////////////////////////////

We would argue that Documents To Go has one of the most complete, most useful implementations when it comes to expansion card support. It is certainly still the only Office companion app that can synchronize documents stored on expansion cards. We have extensively tested this and feel confident that it works as advertised, although environmental issues with specific PCs can affect operation, especially with USB.

You didn't mention if you were on a Mac or a PC. We have found Mac support of Expansion cards via HotSync to be less reliable than on Windows. Also, there is a known bug in HotSync for Windows where you cannot synchronize files stored on expansion cards when doing a network HotSync. These timeout problems stem from USB driver issues related to reading large amounts of data from the cards during a HotSync, an area few conduits make use of.

Another poster suggested making sure you are using the latest version of HotSync, always a good idea.

////////////////////////////////////////////////
#2 Word2Go cannot Copy/Cut & paste to other applications or even documents! Yep, what's there is there to stay and not be shared. ////////////////////////////////////////////////

This is not true, you can copy WordToGo data to any other app on the handheld that supports text, like MemoPad. There is a size limit, but that is true of all applications that use the system clipboard, and no formatting will be retained.

You can also copy between WordToGo documents and formatting will be retained in this case because we use our own custom clipboard. You can also copy more text than is supported on the System clipboard.

////////////////////////////////////////////////
#3 Hotsyncing 20-50 documents is just flat out Tyrannasaurus-Rex SLOW! Even when only 1 or 2 docs has been modified, the overhead of checking all of them adds minutes to the hotsync. I know, you can disable/enable D2G in hotsync, but this is another headache. ////////////////////////////////////////////////

There is much room for improvement in synchronization speed, especially when you have many documents in your list. We intend to address this issue in future versions.

////////////////////////////////////////////////
#4 - DTG word processor cannot keep up with my typing on an attached keyboard. I actually have to keep Wordsmith around to create new documents or to make major modifications to existing documents. I hope this gets fixed soon. ////////////////////////////////////////////////

We have done a lot of optimization on this in our latest version and believe that it should be able to keep up with 70-80 WPM typing based on our testing on m500 series devices for example.

This depends on if you're in the middle of a paragraph versus typing at the end of a paragraph (at the end will be faster), and if a table is present on screen. It should not really be affected much by the overall size of the document. There can be some lag, but you should not be able to notice too much. If you are a very fast typist, the app should be able to keep up with you, but may not display characters as smoothly. Faster devices help with this as well.

We'd be interested in feedback if this is not the case.

RE: D2G Highs and Lows
cscullion @ 10/30/2002 1:11:22 PM #
It may well be that the latest version fixes the problem with not keeping up with typing on a keyboard, but I am not willing to pay $29.95 to find out if it really fixes the problem. What if I find that the problem still exists? I've wasted $29.95. I'm fairly happy with my version 4.005. I don't see any reason to pay for a bug fix. There are no new features in the latest version beyond what I already have in my version.

Chris Scullion
RE: DataViz Response - RE: D2G Highs and Lows
LiveFaith @ 10/31/2002 9:56:59 AM #
Scott,

Thanks for the responses from Dataviz. I use an m505 USB with Win XPm, hotsync v4.1.0 & Intel PIII & 324mb memory:

#1 Maybe the statement expansion card support is not correct. The main problem is that the hotsync times-out repeatedly. D2G v3 did not do this without expansion support. This m505 and a colleagues m515 have the same crash problem. We both have stopped syncing until we decided to update docs.

This is a hassle and any ideas that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.


#2 Oops, I stand corrected. D2G v5 WILL copy out to other apps. My problem, was that I am, using CLIPHack which allows huge cutting & pasting in Palm, OS. This is an invaluable system hack, but it looks like I'll have to send them a mail concerning this conflict w/ D2G. Disabling the hack fixed it, but of course the cut/paste size is limited again. Thanks


#3 That will be much appreciated. It seems like a different protocol of verifying updated docs could really speed this. God forbid itm, but PPC has areal advantage here.


#4 v5 Works great on my keyboard. Better than v4 and leaps & bounds better than v3.

Thanks again. Your reply on the sync problem, is much desired.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: D2G Highs and Lows
Nerf @ 10/31/2002 10:05:32 AM #
dude, why don't you just demo the latest version? You can then decide for yourself if the typing is better and if there are new features that you might like. You can get a 30 day demo, that is a fully functional version, from thier website.
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