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Comments on: Updated: More Details About Palm OS 6

At the Palm Inc Analyst day 2002 and in an interview with the Register, PalmSource has begun to loosely discuss and divulge plans for the next generation Palm OS 6. The Reg puts it well when they say that OS 6 will be as big a change for PalmSource as OS X was for Apple.
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Shennanigans

Coyote67 @ 10/31/2002 2:51:40 PM #
I hope this news doesn't stop people from buying os5 units.

---------------------------------------
BACK OFF! I'll make you fun size!
RE: Shennanigans
AmrMan0628 @ 10/31/2002 2:55:05 PM #
I agree, and I hope that MAYBE OS6 will only be a matter of software upgrades. Oh well, new things always come out and OS6 won't come out till another year.
RE: Shennanigans
Jawa @ 10/31/2002 2:55:32 PM #
Anybody has an idea if Palm TT should be able to get upgraded to 6.0 when it'll be out ?

RE: Shennanigans
Admin @ 10/31/2002 3:03:32 PM #
It will more than likely be at least one year before we see any OS 6 devices.
RE: Shennanigans
xynos @ 10/31/2002 3:03:39 PM #
I myself have recently purchased a T665, and so I will be holding out for a OS6.0 device, since there are a lot of teething problems with OS5.0 and applications.
RE: Shennanigans
ardee @ 10/31/2002 3:41:20 PM #
I also just bought a T665C, knowing that I would skip OS 5 and wait for OS 6. Great minds think alike? ;-)



RE: Shennanigans
EdH @ 10/31/2002 5:13:24 PM #
I can't believe Palm divulged this info when OS5 devices are just barely hitting the shelves. IMHO, this will stop quite a few purchases waiting for the summer of 2003 for the real OS to arrive.

RE: Shennanigans
somas1 @ 10/31/2002 5:20:52 PM #
"I myself have recently purchased a T665, and so I will be holding out for a OS6.0 device, since there are a lot of teething problems with OS5.0 and applications."

Yeah! OS 6 will not have any teething problems. Except we can't be sure if any pre-OS 6 software will work on handhelds running OS 6.


RE: Shennanigans
somas1 @ 10/31/2002 5:24:30 PM #
"I can't believe Palm divulged this info when OS5 devices are just barely hitting the shelves. IMHO, this will stop quite a few purchases waiting for the summer of 2003 for the real OS to arrive.
"

Palm released most of this info more than a year ago. Search through PIC's archives. People making handheld purchases either knew about this already and will either wait for OS 6 devices or will purchase OS 5 devices because they are useful. People who don't know about Be's team working at Palm really should stick to OS 4 or PPC.

RE: Shennanigans
sr @ 10/31/2002 5:43:29 PM #
I also see PalmOS 6 devices as at least a year away. If you haven't upgraded in a while, now is as good time as any to get OS 5 devices, since they even may be upgradeable to OS 6, and if they are not you can upgrade to OS 6 in 12 to 24 months, depending on your budgets. :)

Will OS 5 be upgradeable to OS 6? I think that chances are good with Tungsten T that it will be. It has the necessary horse power, flashable ROM (albeit a bit small, some built-in apps may have to move to RAM), and Palm's history shows that they've committed to this in the past. Sony is a different story (just looking at their history).

SR

RE: Shennanigans
james_sorenson @ 10/31/2002 10:28:06 PM #
A year is a long time to wait in the electronics world. I'm sure the Pentium 5 with Windows XP2 will be incredible. I'm sure the Apple G5 with MacOS 11 will knock people's socks off. The 2004 model cars will have more features and better gas mileage. There is always something better up ahead. Palm is just letting us know they aren't asleep on the job.

Christmas is coming. No matter what Palm says about PalmOS 6, I'm sure many stockings will be filled with what's available now. (Pity that they'll be a couple months late with the Tungsten W!)

Jim

-------
James Sorenson

Upgrading to OS 6
Marshall Flinkman @ 12/2/2002 12:33:04 PM #
This may have been posted elsewhere, but according to PalmSource, OS 6's system requirements will be comparable to OS 5's. So upgrading is viable.

Whether licensees will offer upgrades, though, depends; Palm SG, at least, is inheriting a good track record from Palm Inc; let's hope they maintain it.

.NET compatible

Fammy @ 10/31/2002 2:57:42 PM #
I'm surprised Palm would consider making their product compatible with the Microsoft standard. It's one thing got the desktop syncing and another for the handheld itself.

Does this mean we'll be able to run programs made for .NET (of the Compact Framework) on OS6?

_____
Fammy

RE: .NET compatible
ardee @ 10/31/2002 3:42:15 PM #
Microsoft's .NET is only one category of web services. There are others (that predate it).


RE: .NET compatible
seanhennessy @ 10/31/2002 3:57:24 PM #
Actually I'm glad OS6 will be .Net compatible. With PocketPC supporting both Java and .Net, this will be a great equalizer, and will go over well in the enterprise market. But it does look like it's adios to the zen of Palm... all good things come to an end I suppose.

SeŠn

RE: .NET compatible
rsc1000 @ 10/31/2002 4:19:45 PM #
>>But it does look like it's adios to the zen of Palm... all good things come to an end I suppose.

Adios to zen of Palm? OS 6 is not simply .Net for Palm - though it will (apparently) contain that as 1 feature. OS 6 will have its own API - obviously designed as an extension / improvement on the existing OS 5. When Java came into existance (years ago now)there were those that said 'it looks like it's adios for windows and mac os' - obviously that didn't happen. And the comparison is a valid one - .Net borrows it's runtime enviroment approach from java. What this means is that - in theory - Palm users will be able to tap into .Net software. But there will continue to be a preference for (and market for) Palm OS optimized code.

RE: .NET compatible
Token User @ 10/31/2002 5:00:00 PM #
Actually, .NET could help embody the Zen of Palm. Small applets that are not kitchen sink applications, have dedicated function, yet communicate between themselves to extend functionality.

Taking a ".PALM" approach could be an asset to the PPC community as well.

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: .NET compatible
Fly-By-Night @ 11/1/2002 4:59:35 AM #
I agree with Token User (great name by the way!). OS6 sounds to be very modular; meaning that hardware manufacturers can pick and mix the APIs to suit their device -- whether it's a smartphone, PDA, sub-notebook (eg Dana), or some new kind of device. This will keep the OS small, rather than just disabling features not required (cf M$ Stinger).

Long live Zen and the art of OS maintenance!

FBN

RE: .NET compatible
r0hh @ 11/1/2002 9:40:22 AM #
I'm a .Net Developer myself and Find porting the compact framework to palm a great idea. For those of you unaware about how .net can integrate with a mobile device, it's not like using .net will completely change how development works against a palm device. The basic idea would be to use .Net's unified type system to be able to write mobile apps in any language for any available platform. They're more likely to create a PAL (Platform Abstraction Layer) for the palmos api similar to how the SSCLI/ROTOR source uses a PAL to get .Net to run on FreeBSD.

"More robust security featues"

Gekko @ 10/31/2002 5:47:17 PM #
Can someone please let me now if any additional security (ie encryption) exists in OS5 vs. OS4? I thought the whole point of OS5 was to help penetrate the corporate market - and if the same OS4 security issues still exist, isn't that a big problem?

RE: Security
Gekko @ 10/31/2002 5:59:53 PM #
mclove answered this for me in the forums:

"I just tested this with Filez and the memo data file is still plain-text, even with records set to "private".

IIRC, the reason why PalmSource talks about cryptography in OS5 is because there's now a built-in crypto library which developers can use in their own applications; Palm hasn't gone and actually added encryption to the built-in apps, they've just made it easier for developers to add crypto to theirs."


Don't buy OS5

ray00pal @ 10/31/2002 5:42:18 PM #
I suspect that Palm expect OS5 to be very disappointing. To prevent losing market share, they HAVE to talk about OS6. Why buy OS5 when OS6, and maybe OS7 are coming out?
RE: Don't buy OS5
travishill @ 10/31/2002 6:10:01 PM #
What about OS5 is disappointing?

The builtin bluetooth support? The 300 FPS+ video playback? The audio support? The hires support? Even faster PIM apps?

RE: Don't buy OS5
Gekko @ 10/31/2002 6:20:41 PM #
Well, I would have liked:

1. removal of 4k limit in memo
2. unlimited or larger clipboard buffer
3. native PIM encryption security
4. 32-64MB RAM

I will still buy a TT, but c'mon, these aren't rocket science.

RE: Don't buy OS5
orpheus @ 10/31/2002 6:23:50 PM #
I think Tungsten T (at least) will appeal to those who want higher res screens, niftier games, voice recording and at least slightly improved speed over previous models. The higher res screen alone makes me think it's a good investment.
"Slightly increased speed"
Zippy @ 10/31/2002 6:37:51 PM #
Try "major speed increase", like MAJOR.

I have one of these Tungstens and it is blazingly fast, even compared to my NR70 at 66 mhz.

RE: Don't buy OS5
mcseym @ 10/31/2002 9:35:35 PM #
Everyone to their own. For me there's no time to wait - I've been sitting on my wallet for 12 months waiting for OS5! If [maybe] OS6 is released in summer 2003, then devices [maybe] released end 2003, (similar to OS5). I'm not waiting yet another year.

Buy OS5 now, get a good two years use 2003 & 2004 then buy a second-generation OS6 device at the end of 2004. I can still enjoy the screaming fun of OS5 and have something to look forward to.

cheers

matt


RE: Don't buy OS5
Take1 @ 11/1/2002 3:22:06 AM #
I'll wait until Sony comes out with an OS6 NX-90 or something. Even though the NX-70 has a 200 Mhz processor and the TT has 144 MHz, the NR has plenty of speed on 99% of the apps that I use. For those apps. that lag at 66 MHz (HandDBase & Kinoma) I simply use FastCPU and it's good to go.

Wonder how many programs will be incmopatible with OS6 -- or will they do some more EMU on the legacy apps.?

RE: Don't buy OS5
dsm363 @ 11/1/2002 5:11:12 AM #
I upgraded from a m500 to the Tungsten T and love it. This is a really great PDA and anyone doubting it should go take a look at it at the local Staples or something first. It does have it's drawbacks especially with 16MB RAM but with SD cards falling in price (I got a 256MB SD card for $99), it helps that part of the problem. The screen alone makes this a worth while upgrade from the black and white Palm world.

RE: Don't buy OS5
thinkpanda @ 11/1/2002 12:34:19 PM #
The target audience of Palm OS 6 stuffs is analysts, financial/investment analysts, not Palm users like you and me. Palm(source) must keep taking about the rosy roadmap to keep the interest of analysts so they will recommend people to buy Palm's shares.

I don't think these talks have anything to do with the status of Palm OS 5, which is just too early to say.


RE: Don't buy OS5
bigfoot @ 11/1/2002 5:13:51 PM #
Since I just got my trusty M505 back from STNE with 16 meg of RAM, I'll pass on all of the OS5 devices and wait out Palmsource and Palm and see what OS6 will have to offer and what hardware will go with it.

Cheers,

RE: OS5 diappointing (Was: Don't buy OS5)
goofrider @ 11/27/2002 3:35:30 AM #

What about OS5 is disappointing?

The builtin bluetooth support? The 300 FPS+ video playback? The audio support? The hires support? Even faster PIM apps?

Those are all features of the TT hardware, not OS5 itself.

In fact, OS 5 is very disappointing. It's not more than an ARM port of OS 4.x, san traps for hacks. Even the NotePad stil has the same 4k limitation.

I haven't check the OS5 SDK yet, but I can safely assume that OS5 is a straight port of OS4.x, designed to run 68k apps only (with emulation, of course).

This is actually a good thing I think. If software today ships in both native ARM binaries and classic 68k binaries, it'd probably create a lot of confusion among the average users.

The TT is still a great piece of hardware. Hope it'll be upgradable to OS6 (and I think it will).

As nbig a change as OS X?

palmmongrel @ 10/31/2002 5:46:23 PM #
In other words, a huge pain-in-the-arse fo all parties involved, at least two revisions of buggy "finals," and loss of compatibility with just about everything you own.

Sorry... Mac user, still having some issues....

RE: As nbig a change as OS X?
Mandroid @ 11/1/2002 10:21:11 AM #
I think this is a bit overly negative, I'm personally really happy with OS X right now. Granted, 10.0 wasn't perfect by any means, and even 10.1 and 10.2 had some issues, but overall I've found the current release to be fantastic. I was also a NeXTStep user for a while, and had been using the classic Mac OS since a 512ke in 1986....but I love where the Mac is with OS X right now, and I think it is great if Palm OS 6 will be similar.

You may be having some problems, many people still have complaints which are being worked on, but OS X has helped the platform a lot, especially in terms of adoption among people who would never consider it before. I'd expect a potentially similar adoption rate for OS 6 devices from people who wouldn't consider Palm OS before.

-Mandroid

Flash ROM

TypeMRT @ 10/31/2002 8:07:32 PM #
Hopefully someone at Palm will realize that Flash ROM is a good thing, and that 4 MB should be enough for OS 6. I'd say that it's reasonable for end-users to pay for the upgrade. I'd pay $20-30 in 18 months, if it meant greater security and enhanced functionality. Hint to Palm: learn from Sony's mistake last summer with the n710 "upgrade" and don't piss off too many customers (my Clie went back). That assumes an OS 6 upgrade will even be possible and available for the new OS 5 devices...

Upgrade 5 to 6? Meh. Who cares at this point.

Qube @ 10/31/2002 10:45:26 PM #
All this talk about upgrade this and can you upgrade that...

If this mirrored the Windoze world a bit more, then I'd agree. Even so, many are happy to run Windows 98SE than three generations up... Windows XP. Otherwise, there really isn't much concern over if you could upgrade 5 to 6. It's all but reserved to the 'geeks' (like me) that would care. The average joe wouldn't give a damn whether it could be upgraded. Then again, the average joe would have bought a Zire hehe :)

RE: Upgrade 5 to 6? Meh. Who cares at this point.
SwissFreek @ 11/7/2002 10:42:21 PM #
I agree. I think that all this concern about whether or not OS6 will be compatible with OS5 devices is a little premature. Remember that this OS isn't going to come out until about a year from now (if as with OS5 the software goes to licensees in summer and into devices in November). In May I bought a m515. I loved it. I knew that OS5 was in the works, but as now (just ordered a Tungsten), I will satisfy my need for a palm device now, THEN when OS6 comes out I will deliberate whether an upgrade is worthwhile. If it really does take a year for OS6 to come out, in all likelihood there will be a bigger badder Palm (can you say transflective display?) by then anyway that I will be willing to buy (as happened between when I got my Visor Prism and m515), so why should I get all bent out of shape now about what might come out in the future? If OS6 isn't worth it, I won't get it.

PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6

stefanros @ 11/1/2002 2:25:58 AM #
Hi,
Maybe a stupid questions, but anyway. If I buy the new cool Tungsten T, will I be able to upgrade to PalmOS 6?


RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
Jedi @ 11/1/2002 9:54:10 AM #
The short answer is that nobody knows. The long answer is that Palm OS 6 isn't a finished product yet, so there is no way to tell if it is going to be compatible with the hardware of the Tungsten T or not. And even the hardware is compatible, there is no guarantee that Palm will make an upgrade available. Granted, Palm historically has offered upgrades to owners of compatible handhelds at a reasonable price, but they may not offer a upgrade to OS6 for whatever reason.

Now if the ability to upgrade to the future OS 6 is going to be a make or break issue for you on whether to buy the Tungsten T or not, Iíd say donít get it. You may end up being disappointed.

Me, Iím getting one regardless. If they offer a upgrade, it will be a happy surprise, and if they donít I wonít be disappointed.


RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
ardee @ 11/1/2002 10:17:42 AM #
It's not a stupid question. It's a critical question for many. I don't think Palm has said for sure one way or the other.


RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
Palm_Otaku @ 11/1/2002 12:20:43 PM #
I'm waiting to get some solid confirmation on this, but devices running ARM-architecture processors are expected to be upgradeable to OS6.

As an footnote: I have an original pilot 5000 with the "2MB Upgrade Card" flashed to the latest OS4.1, so unlike other handheld platforms that I won't name, future-proofing on PalmOS high-end devices has a decent track record.

- Dan

RE: PalmOS 5 upgradable to PalmOS 6
goofrider @ 11/27/2002 3:51:24 AM #
I too expect the TT to be upgradable to OS6.

1. As u stated, all Palm with Flash ROM has been upgradable (even when it's not officially supported by Palm).

2. It's very likely that the PalmSource OS team is writing OS6 for TT specificly right now. (If you're writing a new OS that's already late to maarket. what hardware would you write for? A product that's already shipping and available for debugging and wide-scale beta testing? Or some prototype over @ R&D?)

3. That "prototype @ R&D" at Palm is just an evolution of the current TT anyways. If OS6 runs on that, it should run on the TT.


Of course, OS6 is still in development, the final release might not fit in 4MB. However, I strongly believe that the OS6 team is using the TT for development interally.

In conclusion, I personally speculate that if OS6 ships no later than Q2/2004, there's a 80% chance that TT will be upgradable to OS6.

Slightly off topic, but interesting...

PalmDoc @ 11/1/2002 9:03:48 AM #
Copied from brighthand.com, dated October 31, 2002:

"Earlier this week, Gartner Dataquest released figures for worldwide and handheld shipments during the third quarter of this year. Today, it released a correction, as the previous report overstated how many units Hewlett-Packard shipped.

"HP's worldwide shipment numbers have been lowered by 89,000 (approximately 23 percent) from previous estimates due to a discrepancy in its earlier tabulations," said Todd Kort, principal analyst for Gartner Dataquest. "Based on this new information, market growth rates have declined, showing that the PDA industry is struggling more than previously reported."

Total shipments worldwide decreased by 2.4% compared with the same quarter in 2002 and shipments in the U.S. decreased by 1.4%. Previously, Dataquest said shipments had increased both globally and in the U.S.

Palm Inc. is still the leader is worldwide shipments, with 31.7% of the total. This is an increase from the 28.8% it had in the third quarter of last year. Palm shipped 808.8 thousand units during the quarter, a 7.2% annual increase.

With the restatement in the number of units HP shipped, Sony moves up to second place. It had 13.5% of the market, making a huge jump up from 3.5% in the same quarter in 2001. Its number of handhelds shipped increased 280% to about 345 thousand units.

HP is now in third place with 11.5% of the total, down from 12.1%. It shipped 292.9 thousand handhelds last quarter, a 7.9% decrease from the same quarter of 2001.

Toshiba is another company that saw huge growth in the last year. It shipped 144.3 thousand units during the third quarter, a 1,705% increase. That was enough to put it in fourth place with 5.7% of the market.

In fifth place was Handspring, which now holds just 3.9% of the handheld market."


Go Palm...Go Sony!

Palm needs to worry about Toshiba!

Just my 2 cents


RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
Fly-By-Night @ 11/1/2002 9:14:19 AM #
Where's SKA when you need him to totally refute these claims. Obviously these internationally respected research agencies are in the employ of Palm and Sony. Everyone knows HP/Compaq have a 100% share of the market...

(I've got that Friday feeling... whooooaaah that Friday feeling....).

FBN

RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
ska @ 11/1/2002 9:53:11 AM #
rah-rah...Palm Inc is now 30% up 2% on the revised data.
rah rah....Palm Inc rule the world.

PS. ever wonder what is in the "other" category?

RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
TobyG @ 11/1/2002 10:03:19 AM #
Palm doesn't need to worry about Toshiba. PalmSource needs to _recruit_ Toshiba.

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown
RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
ska @ 11/1/2002 10:16:18 AM #
..and how likely is that going to happen? Toshiba has pretty good hit for second try with thin low cost E310 and dual slot big screen G550 in Japan. They already upgrade the 550E with 128MB RAM for launch nov 7.

But maybe they can do a Palm OS in parallel development, but if Palm decided to drop Acer's A600, what's the chance they gonna pick up Toshiba?

RE: Slightly off topic, but interesting...
Palm_Otaku @ 11/1/2002 3:27:36 PM #
ska: PS. ever wonder what is in the "other" category?

Hmm, well the "top 5" have about 66.3% of the market so the other third is divided between a couple dozen other vendors from various platforms, who would have about 1-2% each on average.

- Dan

PS Having tracked market share results for a few years, I'd caution PIC readers to take anything from Gartner Dataquest with a grain of salt, IDC reports have more valid methods of data collection.

What, Palm worry?

TobyG @ 11/1/2002 2:28:19 PM #
The only reason why Toshiba isn't making Palms (like Sony is) is because Palm turned them down as a licensee. I'm saying that it would be in PalmSource's best interest to rectify that mistake from the integrated Palm's past. I have no idea how likely it is they'll do it, nor do I care. I'm simply stating my opinion on a more advantageous tactic.

"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown

Answers to questions

Michael Mace @ 11/1/2002 6:14:58 PM #
Hi, folks.

I wanted to comment on a couple of things...


>>PalmSource's Chief Competitive Officer, Mike Mace, says that we'll likely see a phased beta program with interim releases.

Need to correct this one. By interim releases, I meant there's the potential for dot-releases along the way, not an extended beta program. So you might see a dot-release of the OS with some of these features ahead of the full release.

The reason for mentioning this now is so that if there is an interim release, people won't think we just blew up the whole road map. The work's modular and we can change the priorities on some features.


>>Mace also said PalmSource intended the make the new OS Microsoft .NET compatible, and will likely partner with others to provide a run time for the platform.

Interoperating with .Net is a very complex proposition. We want to interoperate with web services in general, and we'll do our best to provide as much interoperability with .Net as Microsoft will allow -- but that might mean connecting in at lower levels than some people here are assuming (ie, through SOAP and XML). There are also other web services architectures that we want to interoperate with. Stay tuned.


>>I hope that MAYBE OS6 will only be a matter of software upgrades.

Generally, the answer is yes. We're designing Palm OS 6 to be upgradable onto Palm OS 5 hardware. In other words, we're looking at the footprint of products like the Palm Tungsten T and we intend to work within those constraints.

But responsibility for delivering the updgrade belongs to the hardware manufacturer. Because our licensees tweak the OS for their hardware, we can't just release a blanket upgrade the way Microsoft does for Windows. It's up to the licensees to decide if they want to offer an upgrade, so you need to ask them what their plans are.


>>We can't be sure if any pre-OS 6 software will work on handhelds running OS 6.

Actually, Palm OS 6 will include the same sort of software emulator as we have in Palm OS 5. So properly-written existing apps should continue to run.


>>The target audience of Palm OS 6 stuffs is analysts, financial/investment analysts, not Palm users like you and me.

It's not a matter of hyping the stock. Corporate IT managers and developers have to make long-term commitments to a platform, and they have been asking for more information about our long-term plans.


Mike
CCO, PalmSource

RE: Answers to questions
ska @ 11/1/2002 7:23:15 PM #
>>Generally, the answer is yes. We're designing Palm OS 6 to be upgradable onto Palm OS 5 hardware. In other words, we're looking at the footprint of products like the Palm Tungsten T and we intend to work within those constraints.

But responsibility for delivering the updgrade belongs to the hardware manufacturer. Because our licensees tweak the OS for their hardware, we can't just release a blanket upgrade the way Microsoft does for Windows. It's up to the licensees to decide if they want to offer an upgrade, so you need to ask them what their plans are.

----------
Is Palm Inc. itself promising Tungsten T will be upgradable to OS 6.0? Will somebody Tungsten owner be able to purchase OS6.0 and make it run on the unit? (Or are you speaking as a representation from Palmsource with no authority to speak of the matter)

RE: Answers to questions
Michael Mace @ 11/1/2002 7:51:27 PM #
Exactly, I am speaking for PalmSource. The two sides of Palm are now for all intents and purposes separate, and I can't speak for Palm Solutions any more than I can speak for Sony.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

RE: Answers to questions
ska @ 11/1/2002 8:12:09 PM #
Question about OS,

-how far will Palm source dictates minimum requirement of hardware? Or will licensee for PDA can add whatever hardware feature they like so that in the end application has to be develop specifically for each model of PDA. (eg. D-pad, DSP accel, screen size, various slots. Obviously a game design to run with D-pad will have to use alternative control in NX, etc.)

-who is responsible to write CF memory driver? (ie. odes Palm source has a program to help driver be written faster for CF, SD/IO, or varius other peripherals)

Thanks


RE: Answers to questions
a3 @ 11/2/2002 7:52:11 AM #
Michael first of all thanks a lot for sharing some of your time with the PIC readers. It really gives us a sense of importance.

Are you planning to include native virtual graffiti in the palm OS? If so when?, if not why?

_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.

RE: Answers to questions
metro7i @ 11/2/2002 1:12:22 PM #
First of all, I'd like to say that it is really heartening to hear from Mr. Mace giving clarification in a forum like PIC, It gives us users validation that our concerns are important to Palmsource. I hope that more Palmsource people come to PIC and discuss with us the issues and concerns about the Palm platform, what better way for Palmsource to reach out and get feedback.

RE: Answers to questions
SaabCaptain @ 11/2/2002 6:27:42 PM #
Mike,

My only concern is the "point" release possiblity you mention. OS 5 was orginally going to be the "big step" for the OS to a new GUI, full ARM, enhanced PIM etc. but that was eventually decided to be spread out over 2 releases to ease the transition and to prevent biting off more than you can chew. As a new Tungsten T owner I think you made the right choice as this gives a way to allow developers to work with ARM while at the same time get ARM capable machines into the hands of users. That said, it also means the time line of a real change to the OS that the user can see, other than multimedia apps, was delayed by more than a year. The possiblity of point releases that spread out very necessary changes such as enhanced PIM apps, multithreading apps, enhanced GUI, full ARM apps over "point releases" that may take much longer than the claimed 6-12 month span between OS 5 and 6 is a huge disappointment that only furthers the claim of Palm being slow in innovation and lacking frontline technology while now for the first time claiming some of the highest prices in the market.

That said, clearly the Tungsten T is a winner, the multimedia enhancements are no joke, and Palm has given themselves some breathing room. I am a non-programmer who has the luxury of sitting back and telling you what to do when of course I couldn't do it at all myself. Of course as you can see in my signature I am also the very market you seek with your high end handhelds and I admit I was tempted by the claims of $199-299 beautiful screened, thin, Pocket PC's but for now I see Palm still holds the slight lead because of the still amazing OS... but for how long.

I know maybe I am expecting miracles but Palm did just back in 1996 and I have high hopes a REAL OS 6 in the future can show us the light yet again.

Bravo Mike, your a standup guy!

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

RE: Answers to questions
masitti @ 11/3/2002 8:13:36 PM #
Mike, it's nice to see you come here an answer questions from consumers - I hope you continue to do this. :)

This kinda gives me a relaxing comfort knowing that if I buy an OS 5, the general rule is that I'll be able to put OS 6 on it.

------------------------
Mario Masitti
O/T Mod
I Love Tennis :)

Where the He** is Handspring?

TungsterTeesgoneNX60 @ 11/2/2002 2:21:26 AM #
Gee, I wonder where our buddies at handsprint(no typo) are? What feature are they gonna drop next?...the screen?

I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...

NikMan @ 11/2/2002 1:07:01 PM #
I allways thought that Dell is "a very good friend" with IBM and "not that good friend" with Microsoft.

U don't want windows on handleds too. The IT market must be much more colorful.

Anybody know why Palm TT has not so beatifull icons from previous PalmOS 5 screenshots?
http://www1.mconline.ru/post/14918/palmos5.jpg

Thank you.

RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
Gekko @ 11/2/2002 1:11:02 PM #
Dell is a "very good friend" with the CUSTOMER. That's all Dell cares about.

RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
abosco @ 11/2/2002 2:00:18 PM #
LOL! Isn't it ironic how they're so friendly with consumers and provide such easy-to-use products, yet they go back to square one and choose PPC over Palm OS?

RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
Gekko @ 11/2/2002 2:05:48 PM #
"There are many different competing standards but we do see some momentum in the (Microsoft Corp) Pocket PC standard..."

- Michael Dell
October 2002

http://money.cnn.com/2002/10/28/news/companies/dell.reut/


RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
Gekko @ 11/2/2002 2:39:07 PM #
"We decided to go with the PocketPC operating system for our initial entry into this [palmtop] market. But with Palm porting its operating system to the Intel StrongArm architecture, the possibility of us producing a Palm OS-based model is not out of the question for the future."

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20021101/gtdellpda/Front/homeBN/breakingnews



RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
SaabCaptain @ 11/2/2002 5:48:27 PM #
The icons used in the Palm T/T are so much better than in the OS5 beta screen shots it isn't even funny, I know why they didn't use them... they stunk!

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
NikMan @ 11/2/2002 5:54:52 PM #
I chewcked again on palm's demo for TT and i think that beta screenshos look way too much better!!!

RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
cbulock @ 11/3/2002 4:48:50 AM #
The Sony Clie NX's have those icons, but they don't have that font, which I like much better than the thin font the Sony's use.

RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
Roberto_tores @ 11/3/2002 8:52:32 AM #
"But with Palm porting its operating system to the Intel StrongArm architecture"

Looks like Dell is trying to ridiculize Palm Os with that statement:

1) OS 5 does not suppor StronARM wich is an obsolete ARM 5 processor. OS 5 supports all current ARM 7 processors under the palmOS ready program and the only Intel processor supported is the new Xscale.

2) Palm OS was not simply "ported" it was rewritten for the ARM processors (and again not for the obsolete StrongARM).

Looks like Dell has something against Palm OS.

RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
hotpaw4 @ 11/3/2002 2:09:06 PM #
Or this could be a leak. Palm OS 5 was rewritten for the ARM9 instruction set architecture, but needs to be ported to specific implementations (for cache/MMU/TLB specifics, hardware configuration registers, etc.). It has already been ported to the one version of the XScale chip, but this is a close relative to the StrongArm. Maybe another unannounced port is underway?
RE: I don't like that Dell used PocketPC Licence...
bcombee @ 11/4/2002 4:51:43 PM #
Actually, Palm OS 5 requires the "v4T" archictecture, first implemented in the ARM 7 cores. Some versions of the ARM9 core implement the "v5TE" architecture, but Intel's ARM chips, as does the Intel XScale chips, but the Intel StrongARM chip only implements "v4T".

ARM Architectures explained: http://www.arm.com/armtech/ARM_Arch?OpenDocument

Intel ARM chips:
http://developer.intel.com/design/pca/applicationsprocessors/


--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

Palm 505 vs. TT

NikMan @ 11/3/2002 5:22:44 PM #
I was spending my time for 14 days this year with my girl on some island. And i was using Palm everyday for emails and webpages. I am runing a webpage by myself and I was checking it and reading emails. Somedays I was playing games and...... etc.
But will TT last for 7 days??? I dont know. I hope I will not miss my Palm 505 so much becouse I am buying TT this week I hope. what do u guys think?

RE: Palm 505 vs. TT
dkmoody @ 11/3/2002 7:11:46 PM #
I can't comment on the TT directly but if what you're moving up from is the m505, MOVE ON! 8-)

I loved my Cranberry but my m515 makes me lust for only the shell. The m515 runs circles for my needs over my 505.

If the TT performs like my experience, and I think from my limited play time at a local retail outlet was a great demo, you're in for a pleasent surprise.

Looking for a Tungsten-phone product to merge my world,

David
Owned a III, IIIe, IIIxe, m505, m130, m515

Backwards Compatible???

Zanneth @ 7/24/2003 9:35:07 AM #
Does anyone know if Palm OS 5 or older software will work on Palm OS 6? I remember how Mac OS X wasn't really friendly about that when the released Mac OS X.

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