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Comments on: Palm OS 5.2 Dev Information Posted

PalmSource has made information about new features and updated included in Palm OS 5.2. Palm OS 5.2 has already been made available to licensees and they in turn may decide to make the update available on new devices or via an OS upgrade. Palm OS 5.2 includes a small set of new features and modifications, most notably a new handwriting recognition engine, Graffiti 2.
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Well then what are the manufacturers saying...

SaabCaptain @ 1/20/2003 11:11:12 AM #
The question of the day then is... are the current Sony and Palm OS 5 machines going to get this update? I am sure they are playing close to the vest but maybe someone can take someone out for some beers and ya know...

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Well then what are the manufacturers saying...
frauen1 @ 1/20/2003 11:24:45 AM #
I think Palm will provide an upgrade. Sony seems to consider their devices to have a short shelf life, and their only upgrade attempt was fairly awkward and expensive. (All of this is IMHO, of course, based on past observations about upgrades.)

I hope Palm, Inc gets this right

Smartmoose @ 1/20/2003 11:33:33 AM #
<rant>
Last time Palm Inc. provided an update (for OS 4.1), users of WinXP and MacOS X couldn't install it. (You can read the warning midway down the page here: http://www.palm.com/support/downloads/palmos41.html ).

Hopefully, they'll change their installation process - or whatever was preventing WinXP and MacOS X users from performing the update - so that all users can have the option update their handheld to 4.1.2 (or 5.2 for you lucky T|T owners out there).
</rant>

RE: I hope Palm, Inc gets this right
gilbas99 @ 1/20/2003 12:14:37 PM #
The 4.1 upgrade was posted to american users. Customers with EFIGS versions are still waiting...

RE: I hope Palm, Inc gets this right
cbowers @ 1/20/2003 12:29:47 PM #
It'd sure be nice if the rest of the PalmOS world would handle updates with the same functionality as Handera does.

No PC is required for the update.

-You just backup to CF or SD
-put the downloaded OS image file in the root directory of the CF card
-hold Datebook button and reset.
-Choose the OS image (if more than one resides on the card)
-Press the todo button to begin the flash. It first verifies the files integrity, then flashes the OS.
-Then use the backup app to restore your personal data

The whole process takes only a few minutes. The process can't easily be botched as the built-in flash app is part of a separate small-rom (also flash updateable).

RE: I hope Palm, Inc gets this right
Agonistes @ 1/22/2003 1:20:13 AM #
Handera? Are they still around? Where can i get one?

OS 5.2 Sim

edeab220 @ 1/20/2003 11:45:16 AM #
I'm using the simulater right now...and to tell you right now...DO NOT UPGRADE! Graffiti 2 is too weird and hard.

----------
Proud owner of...(dead) Visor, Visor Dlx, Palm VIIx, (dead) Visor Prism, and a Sony Clie NR70!!

Senior Editor at: www.pocketloft.com

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
frauen1 @ 1/20/2003 11:55:07 AM #
Wierd/hard is relative - it's different.

I haven't tried the simulator hyet (I will) but I've been using Jot for the past several days - I have at least 5 years of Graffiti experience (actually more - I used it on an old Sony MagicCap device!), I have problems with some of the input (I keep trying to do graffiti for some strange reason ;) ). On the other hand, we've tried it with some beta testers of our software and have gotten positive feedback. I may not like it, but I don't think it's going to significantly hurt the market. The point is moot, anyway - those licensees who want to support the old graffiti will still put it in, those who want to use "graffiti 2" will put in the new version.

Either look at it as an "opportunity" or as a pain. Truth be told, we really don't have much choice.

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
colinhowlett @ 1/20/2003 11:55:27 AM #
It also looks like a fair amount of stuff will be broken if you look at the FAQ
RE: OS 5.2 Sim
thenightfly42 @ 1/20/2003 12:07:04 PM #
That FAQ is downright scary. The first paragraph:
"In Graffiti 2 handwriting, the first stroke of a multi-stroke character might match the stroke for another character. In this case, the Graffiti 2 engine first enqueues the single-stroke character followed by a backspace and the multi-stroke character. For example, The first stroke of a "k" character matches the stroke for the "l" character. When the user draws the first stroke of the "k," the Graffiti 2 engine processes that stroke and sends the "l" character to the key queue. When the user draws the second stroke of the "k," the Graffiti 2 engine sends a backspace to erase the "l" and then sends the "k" character. If your application has processed the "l" in the meantime, it has done so in error."

Think about the issues here. Or, better yet, read the FAQ for all the issues this will cause. Even if Sony releases 4.1.2, I don't think I'll get it.

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
The Phantom @ 1/20/2003 1:08:51 PM #
Mmmmm.... I've just been playing with the 5.2 simulator and to be honest Graffiti 2 doesn't seem vastly different to the old Graffiti. A few letters are now using multiple strokes, a couple have different single stroke forms (notably Q and Y) The majority of the changes seem to be among the 'shift' characters, things like @, ", TM.

It doesn't feel that weird really. I'm sure it'll only take me a few days to get used to it.

I wouldn't say it's an improvement particularly, just different. Considering it's a forced change for legal reason's it could have been a lot worse.

I notice the colour themes are still there in the simulator too. Wonder if they'll make it to the OS release.

_________________________
The Phantom Strikes again

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
dvoulgaris @ 1/20/2003 1:11:47 PM #
I tried the simulator and had a nice surprise. You have some choices with G2, and one is writing Caps letters, it´s very similar to Graffiti "1". The harder part will be remembering the accents and special characters. But we still have the keyboard and maybe some hack writer will give us Graffiti "1" as an extension...

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
I.M Anonymous @ 1/20/2003 11:44:01 PM #
My only complaint is that it now takes two strokes to input i, k, t, and x. This is an improvement how?

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
I.M Anonymous @ 1/20/2003 11:53:02 PM #
Even worse is trying to do a dollar sign. With grafitti 1, it was a two strokes (dot s). With Grafitti 2, it is 4 strokes (|S||).

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
amflores @ 1/21/2003 1:34:32 PM #
as far as I know, you´ve always needed 2 strokes for an "x" in grafitti....

RE: OS 5.2 Sim
tddisc @ 1/21/2003 3:10:04 PM #
In Graffiti 1, the x can be written with one stroke, it's the same stroke as the k, but reversed. ><> instead of <><

td

err - dumb user question...

M1 @ 1/20/2003 12:16:24 PM #
I'm sitting here waiting for 5.1 because I apparently need it for Web browser 2, the proxyless killer browser that was supposed to ship with OS5 and was the reason I bought the TT.

------------------------
See Palm FAQ entry below:

Q: What version of Palm OS does Web Browser 2.0 run on? Why doesn't Web Browser 2.0 work on Tungsten T?
A: Web Browser 2.0 requires Palm OS 5.1. Palm Tungsten T and Sony NX70V Clie come with Palm OS 5.0 installed. These devices both come standard with different browsers. Tungsten T is bundled with the Novarra Web Pro browser and NX70V comes with the Netfront Access browser.

------------------------

So while we're all saying 5.2 - what happened to 5.1.

Or am I waiting for Godot?

RE: err - dumb user question...
Zuber @ 1/20/2003 12:42:44 PM #
Agreed,

I am still waiting for the proxyless browser a well. The current browser is ok, but it does not look as good as Netfront.

A good proxyless browser while still having the proxy based browser available for those needing keep the bandwidth down would be ideal.

Zuber

RE: err - dumb user question...
jbreuer @ 1/20/2003 2:36:37 PM #
The previous release of Palm Simulator was OS 5.1
Not in any PDA as far as I know.


Juan Jose.

RE: err - dumb user question...
M1 @ 1/20/2003 7:12:20 PM #
Hmmm - so am I ever going to get the 5.2 release on to my Tungsten is it also for emulators only?

It seems increasingly unlikely to me (Joe Blow user) that Web Browser 2 and the fabled MP3 bundle will ever materialise on the TT. Particlarly as the OS seems to be evolving in isolation.

A bit of a concern for a product that was sold (and which I for one bought) on the strength of its supposed wireless internet and multimedia capabilities.

Anyway - I can see this thread going way of topic so I will take it to the forum from here.

Not that it will be news there.

So how about a release that actually makes it onto our hardware and addresses some of the real issues the users are having before we hit OS6.7.5?

Is old grafitti gone if you install update?

bobes @ 1/20/2003 12:32:29 PM #
Is old grafitti gone if you install update? or can you use both of them at the same time?

RE: Is old grafitti gone if you install update?
Foo Fighter @ 1/20/2003 1:02:29 PM #
Nope, it's gone for good.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Is old grafitti gone if you install update?
IanJD @ 1/20/2003 2:44:04 PM #
But what happens if you have something like Grafitti Anywhere; do you draw the old or new characters on the screen?

RE: Is old grafitti gone if you install update?
bytor @ 1/21/2003 12:54:06 PM #
In addition, if you really dont like it can you do a hard reset and get it back??

Long Live Visor Prism
RE: Is old grafitti gone if you install update?
IanJD @ 1/22/2003 8:10:33 AM #
> In addition, if you really dont like it can
> you do a hard reset and get it back??

If it's a flash update, which it almost certainly will be, then no.

4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?

Gekko @ 1/20/2003 1:13:21 PM #
Real mp3? Or do I have to wait for OS7 in 2005 for this? Sheesh.

RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
Admin @ 1/20/2003 1:30:40 PM #
Don't forget about the 16MB RAM issue...
RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
Fernando @ 1/20/2003 1:37:38 PM #
the 4k limit is a palm only problem... so you'd have to pick that up with palm. On the current os 5 sony devices there is no such limit, and it actually has an mp3 player pre-installed. Palm for some reason decided to put in the 4k limit to their tungsten t for some reason (so that no one can make an mp3 player before they do?). Hopefully they'll release an proper patch for this issue. But knowing palm this may take a few more months (they're slow at fixing their own problems). Or perhaps they're just waiting for Real to finish the mp3 player before they go ahead and take off the 4k limit on the Tungsten. Whatever it is, don't count on a miracle within the rest of the month.

RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
Fernando @ 1/20/2003 1:50:15 PM #
what's the 16mb ram issue? i don't seem to remember that one....
RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
BiffK @ 1/20/2003 2:06:42 PM #
Not sure about that, but apparently more memory is possible. Garmin's new GPS PDA has 32 MB of Ram on OS 5

-Biff K
RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
IanJD @ 1/20/2003 3:16:58 PM #
Maybe Garmin set up half the 32Mb as a RAM disk?

RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
Gekko @ 1/20/2003 3:28:52 PM #
>"Don't forget about the 16MB RAM issue..."

Admin - Good point! How could I forget!

>"what's the 16mb ram issue? i don't seem to remember that one...."

Fernando - It is believed by some that Palm devices are limited to 16MB RAM due to the legacy of the Dragonball. Although the TT no longer uses the Dragnoball, the theory is that the OS5 emulation of OS4 has a "bug" in it which requires imposing a 16MB RAM max.



RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added
strannik @ 1/20/2003 4:27:43 PM #
>Whatever it is, don't count on a miracle within the rest >of the month.

you know something we don't know?

RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
IanJD @ 1/20/2003 5:58:10 PM #
> the 4k limit is a palm only problem... so you'd have to pick that up with palm. On the current os 5 sony devices there is no such limit, and it actually has an mp3 player pre-installed.

I think you're confusing the 4kb character limit in memos and what was originally referred to as the 4kHz low pass DSP filter. The latter has nothing to do with PalmOS, and won't be addressed in this update.

RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added
barfuss007 @ 1/20/2003 6:35:06 PM #
>>> I think you're confusing the 4kb character limit in memos and what was originally referred to as the 4kHz low pass DSP filter. The latter has nothing to do with PalmOS, and won't be addressed in this update.<<<

Geee - I am confused: If the 4kHz low pass DSP filter is not related to the OS - how could an OS fix help then???

RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
Fernando @ 1/20/2003 8:05:03 PM #
the 4khz limit is for palm tungstens only, and was introduced for palm. the 4k limit for the notepad is a palm os thing, not only dealing with palm hardware. I appologize for getting these two confused, but i forgot abuot the memo limit, and just asumed it was the audio limit.

4K Memo Limit explained
bcombee @ 1/21/2003 12:31:34 PM #
The memo pad limit is there and hasn't been fixed for a few reasons:

1) Lots of software uses the MemoPad database format, so changing this format, even to remove this limitation, could lead to other programs crashing or misbehaving.

2) More importantly, the Memopad conduit that comes with HotSync Manager knows about this limit. Changing this would mean that some Palm OS devices wouldn't be able to talk to old versions of HotSync manager, leading to customer confusion.

Finally, there isn't a big reason to fix it. There are better applications to view larger documents that allow document compression, and there are much better apps for writing larger documents. Some of these are free. Expanding the memo size would hurt the developers who have built alternative memo apps on the platform.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com

RE: 4K Memo Limit fixed and Native Security/Encryption added?
TinMan @ 1/21/2003 1:53:24 PM #
Large stand-alone documents are one thing, notes within contacts, etc., are quite another. If you have a contact stored in Outlook with >4K note-data, that data is truncated on the Palm. If you happen to edit it on the Palm, the truncated data is then propagated back to Outlook. Not good. The 4K limit has to go, IMO. Ditto for the clipboard limit...


-Mike

Repeat Events

JKingGrim @ 1/20/2003 3:11:23 PM #
>>Algorithm which computes the interval between two
>>repeat events is incorrect

Does this mean the problems with lists scrolling too quick is gone?

Upgrade or Downgrade?

hotpaw4 @ 1/20/2003 3:00:35 PM #
There are several reasons why current users are loyal to the PalmOS brand; there's the oft-mentioned ease-of-use and the large number of 3rd party applications.

But one of the big reasons why many Palm users would never switch is because Graffiti 1 has become hardwired into their brains... something that happens after just a few months of use. Lots of users report that their handwriting and printing has turned into Graffiti. If Graffiti 2 doesn't have a backwards compatibility mode, and this change annoys Graffiti 1 users, the change could potentially cause a loss of some of PalmOS's lock on the upgrade market, as well as cut into some of their legendary word-of-mouth advertising.

So, my question is: what's the minimum number of characters that the typical user will need to relearn? Or will some 3rd party (offshore open source, perhaps) step in with a Graffiti 1 compatiblity recognizer add-on?

RE: Upgrade or Downgrade?
I.M Anonymous @ 1/21/2003 12:00:46 AM #
It's not just relearning characters. Jot is a lot less efficient than Grafitti, with many characters requiring twice or three times as many strokes. Grafitti with MidCapsHack is equal to or faster than jot for every character.

RE: Upgrade or Downgrade?
tddisc @ 1/21/2003 3:20:21 PM #
I agree. I have been using Graffiti 1 since my Pilot 5000 and like the shorthand over Jot's 'easy' characters. However, if Palm is making this move to avoid some legal issues with Xerox, then they won't keep Graffiti 1 on the devices. Palm just picked who they would rather deal with: keep Graffiti 1 on, deal with Xerox's legal team; drop Graffiti 1, deal with customers.

RE: Upgrade or Downgrade?
Ben S @ 1/24/2003 8:33:26 PM #
The two-stroke characters are the only ones that have changed dramatically. Download the Jot 5-day demo from www.cic.com and try it out.

As for Graffiti 2 hurting Palm's marketshare -- I doubt it. Something like 80% of Palm sales are made up of first-time buyers. They don't know Graffiti from Jot, so why should it bother them? It will be better for them, since Jot is much more like "regular" handwriting.

Network fix's

palmit @ 1/20/2003 3:28:59 PM #
Noticed a lot of network related and some Bluetooth fixes. Hope this will improve BT communication and help made OS more stabile.

Can we change it?

M3wThr33 @ 1/20/2003 5:44:10 PM #
Click the FAQ and read it. It's nothing but a page listing workarounds in the flaws in it. I like graffiti and I'm not switching if I have a choice. ()#*%@)%#....

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

Prediction...

mikecane @ 1/20/2003 6:20:17 PM #
In my Predictions article, I said if there wasn't an OS 5.x update by the end of Jan 2003, you'd know Palm OS 6 is late.

Could it be that it will be ON TIME?

(But given the death of Graffiti, does anyone now give a damn?)

RE: Prediction...
hkklife @ 1/20/2003 7:24:51 PM #
I sure don't give a damn anymore.....my initial enthusiasm over my T|T has dwindled to barely perceptible these days. The low-pass/mp3 bug REALLY made me sour, and I still fume a bit each day looking at my "not really 16 mb but 14 mb" ram total on my T|T.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but palm.com's webpro proxy server seemed to be down most of saturday and sunday. That didn't help foster feelings of Palm loyalty ANY on my end, as I sat in a hotel room and tried in vain over and over to get something to appear on the www.

I think Palm's aggrivatingly tight-mouthed policy as of late to try and dispell some of the bad ill that's floating around is about as bad as the blunders of the Yankowski era. I have a feeling I won't be applying any updates to my T|T so that I can keep my Grafitti 1...and that there won't be another Palm in my future. I've hung in there since day 1 with a 2nd hand Pilot 1000, but I've reached the end of my rope. I am sure there are good deal of users out there with similar (if not stronger) feelings.


RE: Prediction...
rsc1000 @ 1/20/2003 11:39:55 PM #
>>I still fume a bit each day looking at my "not really 16 mb but 14 mb" ram total on my T|T.

Could be worse - you could have been duped into getting a 64MB viewsonic (actually has only 36MB!) or a 16MB Sony NX70 (only 11MB). The low-pass issue is a pain. Whats the real scoop on this? i keep hearing different stories - is it a Palm inc OS implementation issue or is it just the music software? Whats the deal? I wouldn't get that discouraged - the TT has still only been out a few months - i'd give it a few more to see what software turns up for it. I bet that when OS5 development hits full steam we are still going to see some very nice stuff.

RE: Prediction...
enjolras @ 1/21/2003 1:36:39 AM #
Are you just against having heap memory on your device? It's memory that is definitely going to be put to good use. The inability to really utilize the really small heap on earlier Palm models has been a real problem for developers. With this new space, your going to see a lot of really exciting software in the months to come (particularly for games).

RE: Prediction...
Lucky Dragon @ 1/21/2003 11:42:00 AM #
hklife said:

"I have a feeling I won't be applying any updates to my T|T so that I can keep my Grafitti 1...and that there won't be another Palm in my future."

Why are you blaming Palm for something that Xerox is responsible for? They're the ones that filed that lawsuit.

RE: Prediction...
hkklife @ 1/21/2003 3:36:51 PM #
A lawyer I'm not, but this is just the straw that breaks a back that's been sagging for far too long. There are reasons aplenty to be angry at Palm and Xerox, yes, but Xerox are doing the same thing that Atari (as well as many other cash-strapped tech. firms do) did back in their dying days-sling lawsuits left and right and hope that something sticks. Remember Atari's handful of attempts to keep suing Sega? Or their accusations of Nintendo's monopolistic practices? They (Atari) had more revenue from damages and royalties in the early-mid 90s than they did from actual hardware/software sales.

Anyway, back to Palm:

For starters, had Palm not bungled their operations over the past 3 or so years, they'd be in a far better financial position to battle Xerox--or they would have been bought/merged with someone with deeper pockets (Apple, Sony, IBM etc) that could help them outmuscle Xerox, who themselves are nowhere close to being in good financial shape these days.

Palm could do a lot to stem the torrent of negativity being issued by upset users like myself by offering an add-on "package" for Graffiti 1 users...price it at $19.99 and give the proceeds to Xerox. Or make the OS 5.2 flash that contains G2 free but charge a few bucks for the one that sticks with G1 and again, give the proceeds to Xerox. There are plenty of ways they could have attempted to work around the issue, but as they continue to display (much like the wireless telephone providers), retaining existing customers means nothing to them. Just suck 'em in with feature-deprived Zires and try to keep their heads above water until the next Holiday buying season...But they'd rather just sit there mum on the whole Graffiti/Real player/low-pass filter bug/various Bluetooth bugs etc etc and point the finger at the "other" Palm. I've seen the T|T called the "BMW of handhelds" in at least one review but this continued silence is not doing anything other than causing me to liken it to a Daewoo (decent vehicle, but non existent service and support).

If it's somehow possible to stick your head in the sand while barely keeping it above water, then Palm's doing such a thing right now.

RE: Prediction...
Fly-By-Night @ 1/22/2003 6:28:29 AM #
From my understanding; Grafitti 2 will be able to use PDBs of 'user defined' key strokes. If you happen to user define these as Grafitti 1, there's not much Xerox can do about it.

FBN

-----
Ceci n'est pas une signature.

Palm
garetjax @ 1/24/2004 5:31:20 PM #
I am new to the palm arena and the products surrouding other manufacturing companies of pda's...

In my mind my purchase was based upon The fact that I have one of two choices WindowsCE or PalmOS not Sony, or Palm Branded Devices. I opted for the Palm Device, as I see them as the father of the industry and therefore I would have a product with support in the millions. As for the other products, I am sure they have alot of gimmick's and crap you can get...but, I for one feel that the Palm Zire71 That I bought, had everything I was looking for ... Digital Camera // Mp3 Player // Expense Recording...etc...etc.

As for your mentioned drawbacks...I didn't see them as an issue at all...

An Example: Though, the volume is Measurably low in comparison to other mp3 Player etc...I contest its not really meant for this type of usage...but, rather provides it as a feature.

For the Graffiti 2 Type Library for Written recognition, I have no issue using 2 or 3 strokes to type...In many cases I just switch to using the keyboard anyway...

Complain // Complain...helps nothing...

When I purchased my Zire71 I saw that there were only a few left, and the salesmen I spoke to said they were going quickly...even now...though, they have been on the market now...Yet, I saw 20/30 other PDA's sitting on shelves collecting dust.

The Zire seems to be developed and manufactured for the new users of palm and we love it.

Joe W. Garrett


Great News: Virtual Graffiti and 320x480!

kevdo @ 1/20/2003 7:18:56 PM #
I think most folks are missing the most important news in this announcement: a standard API for virtual graffiti. That means that all manufaturers can use 320x480 screens!

320x480 is very, very important. Not just because it compares better to PocketPC on the "feature charts" but also because it move the platform towards a non-square screen resolution for all sorts of applications. Games, of course, would benefit but also anything having to do with text (ebook readers, word processors, etc.).

With more an more devices having built in keyboards or attachable ones easily available, Graffitti is clearly not as important as it once was. We can now "retake" that part of the screen.

I look forward to the day when all Palm OS 5 devices come with a 320x480 screen with virtual graffiti. I admire the Tungsten T for the small size and collapsable shape... but I'd gladly take a taller device with a larger screen!

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Great News: Virtual Graffiti and 320x480!
LiveFaith @ 1/21/2003 8:56:14 AM #
Excellent comment Kevin!

I have been wondering this ... when is some enterprising company going to radically reduce the amount of "unused space" on the front of a handheld device. The SJ30 seems to be the best so far, but it has no virtual graffiti area. That new Compaq does better and the Sony clamshells do it pretty well.

A Palm m500 has about 50% of frontal area utilized for screen real estate. With a little creativity, this % could be raised to 80-90%.

Imagine the possibilities of lists, spreadsheets, games, eBooks, internet, pictures etc!

Probable cons: durability, battery life, cost

Pat

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Great News: Virtual Graffiti and 320x480!
strannik @ 1/21/2003 11:29:46 AM #
> but I'd gladly take a taller device with a larger screen!

i like the size of TT, and wouldn't want a bigger screen... it fits very comfortably in jeans pocket

RE: Great News: Virtual Graffiti and 320x480!
bytor @ 1/21/2003 1:00:57 PM #
I cant believe you people...lol...the unit would be the same size. This would eliminate the need for the fixed grafitti area and it would appear when you slid open the case or the VG could be turned off when it was open to allow for greater viewing. Imagine the possibilities!!

Long Live Visor Prism
RE: Great News: Virtual Graffiti and 320x480!
mashoutposse @ 1/27/2003 2:31:59 AM #
Actually, the graffiti area on the TT doesn't fit the exact proportion of the lower third of a 320x480 screen (it's not big enough relative to the rest of the screen). In addition, the battery, CPU, and other ICs have to go somewhere.

Any way to stop the graffiti switch?

ganoe @ 1/21/2003 10:35:56 AM #
Has anyone started a petition or anything? I can't believe how Palm has just dumped this on its loyal cutomers over the past week and has tried to market it as a good thing.

It is one thing if they decided to offer both options, but to just drop graffiti is unbelievable.

This is the result of a lawsuit.
JonAcheson @ 1/21/2003 10:43:02 AM #
Palm is being forced into this because of a lawsuit they lost. Someone else had a previous patent on a graffiti-like system that used one stroke per character.

Apparently Palm hasn't been able to come to terms with them, so they're forced to go to Graffiti 2, which avoids the patent issues.

Someone else might be able to come up with the exact names and facts, but this is approximately what's going on.

Jon Acheson

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Is not *that* bad
eevyl @ 1/21/2003 12:15:34 PM #
Come on, relax.

Graffiti 2 is by no means the dead of Graffiti. Almost all of the strokes are done in the same way, plus some more strokes to choose from. I find it easier and better, and it is really the same thing, but evolved.

RE: Any way to stop the graffiti switch?
ganoe @ 1/22/2003 11:32:44 AM #
Unless Palm dumps all the unistroke characters in Jot (http://www.cic.com/support/faq/Pos/Jot/char.gif) I don't see how it'll make any difference in the Xerox lawsuit. So no, I have not to date seen any evidence of how this has anything to do with the Xerox lawsuit.

Changes to the I and T are probably enough to make me buy a Zaurus. If they dump even more unistroke characters in the process, I see Palm losing a bunch of customers.

Sound Quality

iiicRuled @ 1/21/2003 10:53:30 AM #
What I want to know is if the update fixes the low quality sound. (low pass or something) It says this in the fix list:

-Noise is heard (for Unsampled Data) if a blank sound is inserted on one channel while the opposite channel has sound.

Does that mean we will at last have high quialty sound??

RE: Sound Quality
strannik @ 1/21/2003 11:32:04 AM #
nope, it's a Palm Inc. issue, not Palmsource

RE: Sound Quality
TinMan @ 1/21/2003 2:04:30 PM #
Yet another benefit of the split: The Blame Game. I think I preferred it when they were one.

-Mike

I sync, therefore I am.

This is the danger I feared when they split...

Bluez34me @ 1/21/2003 11:58:56 AM #
So, OS 5.2 is released to the "partners" and licensees. But no comment from the most important of those licensees, Palm itself, on when (or if) the update will be available for customers. No straight word on the audio fix (can you say "run-around"?) , no additional information on the graffiti issue (use this inefficient new thing, you’ll love it)… In short, it seems as if the two halves of the company are completely out of touch with each other, and worse, the customers.

This is what I was afraid of from the initial announcement that Palm would "split". Isn’t there a business plan over there? Didn’t any of those high-priced MBAs think about customer support and satisfaction while they were gleefully gloating over the numbers of this "de-merged" business? Is there a plan for communicating with customers? Hello, McFly!

This lack of information, or a coherent message, certainly isn't going to help keep customers. I've been a loyal Palm user since my Palm III. I had a IIIxe and IIIc. I own a Tungsten. But I'm going to look around much more carefully when it comes time to upgrade my PDA again this year… if Palm doesn't get its act together, there's no way I'm coming back for more.


RE: This is the danger I feared when they split...
M1 @ 1/21/2003 1:11:03 PM #
And so say all of us....
RE: This is the danger I feared when they split...
Bytter @ 1/27/2003 11:15:01 AM #
But, does ANYONE have any SLIGHT idea WHEN palm inc. is going to release a &"$%&#"% bug correction update for Tungsten!?

Any rumors? Any leaked information? Is Palm Inc. alive, by the way?! Are they in Hawai taking vacations with our money used for buying the TTs!?



Simulator won't run.

ganoe @ 1/22/2003 11:50:06 AM #
I tried both the 5.2 debug and release versions. They both complain about not having the GraffitiLib.dll (which isn't in the zip file). The simulator then crashes. I was able to copy over the file from 5.0, which works, but you're left with normal graffiti then. :)

There is also a Graffiti2Lib.dll, but you can't just rename it to replace the other dll.



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