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Comments on: Palm Slashes Prices, TT now $399

Palm Tungsten TPalm SG has dropped prices on their handhelds. The Tungsten T was cut by $100, bringing it down to $399 USD. There is also a free shipping promotion on any handheld when purchased from the Palm Store.
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wtf?

Toysoft @ 2/4/2003 12:19:44 PM #
I paid over $850 canadian for it and a month later they drop the price. Can we get a refund on the difference?

RE: wtf?
jjsoh @ 2/4/2003 12:32:45 PM #
Refund? I believe you purchased it along with an "early-adopter's tax." You should know that this rule applies to all technology; if you want it first, pay more for it. If you want a reasonable price, wait. Since it has only been 3 months since launch, you decided to jump early.

If your purchase was made within a week of the price drop and through Palm's Online Store, then I might understand. But a month? That's still a long time. Of course, if you purchased it elsewhere, then you should find out what kind of price matching or refund policy they carry (if any).

Still, I'm surprised that the price drop was so soon. Better for Palm, I guess. I'm curious about what's looming... :)

Jim

RE: wtf?
sandbuck @ 2/4/2003 12:38:39 PM #
>> I paid over $850 canadian for it and a month later they drop the price. Can we get a refund on the difference?

That's a rhetorical question, right?

We could have waited, but we had to have a TT RIGHT THEN. Place a nice game of MegaSoft Billiards and be at peace with your early purchase.

RE: wtf?
Konstantin @ 2/4/2003 12:39:58 PM #
Yeah. There was somebody who said that whoever buy the TT will regret it if not waited a bit. There is why. Now lets buy the TT :)

RE: wtf?
navomaal @ 2/4/2003 12:43:50 PM #
I price matched it and used other means necessary to get it for 325...I guess now that is useless...eh?


RE: wtf?
graph @ 2/4/2003 3:42:00 PM #
Sounds like Palm will release the TT update like m505 - M515. the new TT will probably have a working Mp3 player with better drivers and hardwares. and no touchscreen defects.

RE: wtf?
potter @ 2/5/2003 2:17:42 PM #
Toysoft wrote:
> I paid over $850 canadian for it and a month later they
> drop the price. Can we get a refund on the difference?

Depends on when and where you bought it. Many places have "Price Match" guarantees and most such "Price Match" guarantees include a "within 30-days" clause. So if you did purchase it from a place with a Price Match guarantee within 30-days ago, you should be able to get such a refund.


RE: wtf?
kempokaraterulz @ 2/5/2003 2:23:24 PM #
its still overpriced for what you get imho.

_______________________________________
http://kempokaraterulz.ip2dns.org/
___________________

I feel special, wheres my cookie?

If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done.

RE: wtf?
adamrichman @ 2/5/2003 7:27:31 PM #
>>It's still overpriced for what you get IMHO.

lol

I smell a new palm handheld....

navomaal @ 2/4/2003 12:38:22 PM #
Palm - realizing that once again they have made a huge mistake - over priced unit that is not worth 499 and full of problems such as digitizer, flimsy toggle button, and wider variety of problems with the open close mechanism, - has decided to cut prices.

Furthermore, given palm's history, they WILL repeat the mistake - either come out with something that is just as faulty, or recycle the sony features that were offered in the middle ages.

To palm owners, I owned 505, 515 and now I have Tungsten - so please don't think I am making fun of palm owners, I am merely stating facts.


RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
sandbuck @ 2/4/2003 12:48:19 PM #
Bull. You are a pathetic, wandering troll using the "I own the machine I'm trashing" technique to legitimize your drivel.

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
TSC @ 2/4/2003 12:54:12 PM #
You may add another mistake made by Palm. That is the TT did not have SD for data backup, etc. Everytime a high end new Sony PDA reaches the market, we say, "Wow!". With Palm, the reaction is too often, "Why didn't Palm also include ........". The palm hardware always seems to be missing something important to me. Practice makes perfect. Palm will learn with more experience.

I am really like the Palm available software and OS, and I wish the company well, but I am beginning to seriously think about buying a Sharp ZAURUS Linix PDA. Confronting the Linix OS doesn't bother me.

TSC

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
zrs70 @ 2/4/2003 12:55:02 PM #
Sounds like the W will be here very soon!

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
rsc1000 @ 2/4/2003 12:59:07 PM #
>>problems such as digitizer, flimsy toggle button, and wider variety of problems with the open close mechanism,


Dont know why i am bothering to dignify this crap with a response ... but here goes. What 'toggle' exactly are you referring to? What problem with the sliding mechanism (let alone lying about a wide 'variety' of problems)? digitizer? you a full of crap. Either that or you are the most unlucky Tungten user in the universe - because i know several Tungsten owners (myself included) that haven't experienced any of these problems. Yr not really unlucky - just a troll.


RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
Gage @ 2/4/2003 1:22:08 PM #
I sell the Palm Tungsten at a retail store. And I personally own one! I think it's fantastic! But will say I had a major problem with the Digitizer also! I went into work to get a new one and took it home and same problem. Back to work and found another one. Same problem. Finally the third one I tried worked with no problem! I contacted Palm and told them of the problem. They told me that they didn't know anything about a problem, but I think three units in a row with problems is not good.

You can test your own digitizer yourself by doing the following.

1. Create a new note in notepad
2. start to draw a line starting above the delete button. Bring your stylus up to the menu word "note" (do not take the stylus off the screen until you have finished step 5)
3. You should now have a line from above delete to where the draw area ends..
4. Now continue dragging the stylus over to the categories indicator (default is "Unfiled")
5. Now continue dragging the stylus back to where you started.
6. If your unit is good you will now have a three sided triangle. If you have a bad unit you will only have a line from above the delete button to the "note" menu option. And the second line down will not exist.

The problem is along the top the of the screen the digitizer on some units just doesn't work correctly! Contact palm and tell them the same thing I told you here. They will test it on there Palm Emulator on there computer and will see it needs to be a triangle. And not just one line.

Hope this helps some people out! I was thinking of putting images on my web page so other people can see the problem and know how to test the unit. Also you can get a program called "Ak Stylus" and it will allow you to test it. Just use the program and drag your stylus along the top of the screen and you will see that it will drop out at times and stop working if you have a bad digitizer on your Tungsten.

Good luck,
Bobby

I Agree...what Tungsten Problems?
inalaop @ 2/4/2003 1:23:08 PM #
I totally agree:
What's this guy talking about? Navagator problem, slider problem??? I and the people I know who have a Tungsten are more than happy with it. Sure it has a few shorcomings, but this is more related to that fact it has new features and uses OS5 than true 'problems'. With the recent addition of a few 3rd party programs, my Tungsten is very useful to me in my work:
Clickstart - hard button, navagator, and voice record button customization to open any program with slider closed.
GraffitiAnywhere - with slider closed, can write and input data anywhere on screen.
Datebook5 v5.0 preview 6 - OS5 bug fixes and full Tungsten navagator support, other enhancements.
I also have Launcher X, Uninstall Manager, Icon Manager (for hires), BackupMan (easy total backup/restore to my SD 128MB card), Ultrathin keyboard, etc.
Many other programs optimized for OS5, hires, and specifically the Tungsten are coming out now almost daily.
So yes, it's easy to bash, but don't exaggerate.

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
Lemon @ 2/4/2003 1:35:21 PM #
Read my comments on the thread 'Comparing TT with PPC...' before you talk about TT's problem.

Lemon

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
rsc1000 @ 2/4/2003 2:03:36 PM #
Thanks Bobby - that is helpful and constructive criticism and advice (as opposed to the first troll comment). I just did the test and for me the digitizer works fine. I also grabbed my co-workers TT and tested it - fine also. Both of us just got our TTs in the last few weeks. could this be a situation of problems with early 'batch' of TTs? Maybe Palm caught wind of this early (with so many digitizer problems as you have reported - they MUST have know about this by now!) and fixed the problem in subsequent manufacturing runs. I think it is possible.

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
ganoe @ 2/4/2003 2:42:18 PM #
"Palm - realizing that once again they have made a huge mistake - over priced unit that is not worth 499"

You misspelt: Palm - realizing thet they've once again released a single device that is outselling other companies' entire PDA lineups

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
nakolo @ 2/4/2003 3:44:24 PM #
I tried the digitizer test with success! Guess I was one of the lucky ones -- I got mine on 10/28 at a Staples. The manager said they had them but didn't have a display yet. When he showed me the first one, he dropped it! Naturally, I bought the OTHER one. Yes, I paid $469 as an "early-adopter," but I waited on the sideline while the slew of m505/m515/Clie iterations went by, biding my time with my IIIc. Was it worth it? When I whip out my T|T to show friends and families the latest pics of my son (SplashPhoto), the oohs and aahs tell me, "yes." Love my T|T! I know it's not for everyone . . . but it's the right one for me.

-----
T|T, Rhinoskin leather case, G2 Screen Protector (http://www.pdascreenprotectors.com/), 128MB SanDisk SD Card, 64MB Lexar SD Card (Palm Backup)

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
whitemiata @ 2/4/2003 6:47:39 PM #
I think some of you need to re-read the initial comment while applying a bit of a filter, if the tone is bothering you so much.

Frankly, overall, the guy is not off mark, if you ask me.

The price being too high is probably a matter of opinion, but let's be honest here... there are LAPTOPS that can be had for less than twice what a Tungsten started out at.

As far as problems, while I'm not sure what the poster was referring to regarding the "Toggle," the TT has certainly been plagued with quite a few (hopefully youth) problems:

The digitizer - I've seen it with my own eyes and tried it with my own hands, it was so annoying I wouldn't have paid $50 for that particular handheld (I don't mean a TT in general, I mean one with a digitizer problem)

The Slider - again, seen it with my own eyes, the "self-retracting TT" ... that feature was not well thought out if you ask me... they should have implemented the little spring-loaded balls with grooves so that the handheld would stay securely OPEN or CLOSED based on the user's desires, not based on just how lucky you were when you picked your TT box.

Dust - Once again, seen it with my own eyes. any TT user can see it for themselves by making the screen black and keeping the backlight on. Some are luckier than others. Hopefully Palm either HAS or WILL take measures to ensure that no dust that isn't already in there can get in there. So far some reports have said otherwise.

Sound Issue - Sure, this *SHOULD* be fixed by the patch, but my coworker downloaded the patch and installed it and now MP3s sound better (though nothing like a coworker's Sony) but his alarms sound about the same loudness as my Vx's alarms do when my Vx is 3-4 times farther.

As far as "what will Palm do" ... unfortunatelly the poster (IMHO) may be right.

Palm released the Half-A$$ fix M515 after releasing the 505... meanwhile Sony'd been pushing HiRes for some time... not to mention that the M515 only solved one of the 505's shortcomings (screen brightness) while not solving SUDS, and giving up one EXCELLENT FEATURE of the 505 (lit graffiti area).

So, as a Palm fan myself, I'm hoping they get back on track (if you asked me the quality went down when they spun off 3Com... I haven't heard of endemic problems with the Vx, IIIc, IIIx, III, Pro etc... as soon as Palm spun off we got all sorts of things:

Suds, 12bit screens, dim screens, dust...

Here's hoping someone gives a nice tug to Palm's wheel and steers the ship back on course.

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
xtremist5150 @ 2/5/2003 12:33:56 PM #
woah. How come I have the feeling that if I threw a T-bone steak into the middle of this discussion, that it'd be pared down to the bone within seconds? :)

RE: I smell a new palm handheld....
xolstis @ 2/5/2003 4:40:19 PM #
I prefer mine well done thanx! = )

-the harbinger-

Tungsten not as impressive anymore...

Thunderball @ 2/4/2003 12:52:28 PM #
I was very impressed with the Tungsten previews, but damn... the enemy is not only gaining ground, in my opinion, Palm is under siege:

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/hp1910-review.html

Of course, I'm looking at this from a size perspective mostly, since that's what I'm interested in.

I still only have a PalmVx, because it's the smallest thing with the leather flip case.

If Palm will be having me as a customer again, the next Tungsten (hopefully with the new OMAP too), will include a leather flip case... but that's just me talking.

Is anyone else as manic about size as I am?

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
jjsoh @ 2/4/2003 1:03:39 PM #
: If Palm will be having me as a customer again, the
: next Tungsten (hopefully with the new OMAP too), will
: include a leather flip case... but that's just me
: talking.

If there's one thing I miss from Palm's Vx/m5xx design, it's the slide-in flip leather cover. So far, I have yet to find a cover that I'm comfortable with on my Tungsten. Even though I use the supplied clear plastic cover, it just doesn't feel natural to use when clipped onto the back. So, I end up just taking it off on use.

I also blindly invested in a Scuba Sleeve from Palm. My advice for those contemplating purchasing this crap cover: Don't bother.

: Is anyone else as manic about size as I am?

/me raises hand. :)

Jim

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
shaggypaul @ 2/4/2003 2:35:29 PM #
/join #sizematters

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/4/2003 3:13:48 PM #
Of course you should note that both Julie and Judie choose the TT as their primary PDA...

If you are that stuck on the size of the V, why not go for the M515? Leather flip cover, more AVAILABLE memory than any other Palm, and more than twice the speed of the V. Not to mention color, faster hotsyncs, better buttons, and expansion. The TT2 is not going to be any smaller.

For the ultimate size reduction, get a Fossil and remove the band :)

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Roberto_tores @ 2/4/2003 3:32:09 PM #
If it weren't for the stupid 2:20 life of the 1910 and the removal of office formatting I would already have gone with the dark side.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
rsc1000 @ 2/4/2003 3:57:27 PM #
>>If it weren't for the stupid 2:20 life of the 1910 and the removal of office formatting I would already have gone with the dark side.

You forgot lack of SDIO and incompatiblility with all other iPAQ expansion. And don't forget the fact that its s-l-o-w : 200mhz XScale is slower then 200mhz strongARM and significantly slower (if i understand correctly) than TI OMAP (especially one running Palm OS 5). I read recently: TT with OMAP(w/integrated DSP) = 575 MIPS vs. 400mhz XScale = 480 MIPS.

What advantage does the 1910 have over the TT (aside form the price - which as this whole article points out - is becoming less of an issue). The only place where the 1910 wins is size (longer but thinner and less width) and virtual graffiti. I'll take the faster, better OS (couldn't resist...), nicer looking, higher-res, better battery life TT anyday.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/4/2003 4:00:37 PM #
The 2:20 performance is for full brightness and continuous .mpeg loop, a test that T|T cannot perform. h1910 performs better in "normal" use than T|T. (whatever "normal use" means). Most 'up time log' report about 5+hrs. T|T can only come near h1910 battery endurance, but once h1910 is equipped with OC utility, it will outlast even 0% backlight T|T. Also T|T's office apps options are inferior to what is available for h1910, including the formating issue.(SpreadCE, Textmaker, clearVue) This has been discussed to death.
If size really matters, get a Treo 90
mtt @ 2/4/2003 4:13:07 PM #
My favorite PDA right now, bar none. (Since it has been discontinued, I will hope that Sony will bring out a equivelent replacement when mine breaks)

MTT
RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/4/2003 4:34:13 PM #
Have not taken a closer look at comparing the battery life, but the PPC users here in my company of 14,000 would be very interested in seeing how you got better performance than DTG professional. We have the biggest PPC evangelists around who will even chalenge you to your face unprovoked. They lose everytime. The last two challenges were to see who could do video better, and who could sync a 3Mb Word document better. Except for sound quality, the latest iPaq lost to even a 16Mb/33Mhz Palm. The PPC screwed up the formatting of the Word doc as usual.

For more details, see http://www.brighthand.com/article/Office_comparison


RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
mike500 @ 2/4/2003 4:42:33 PM #
I guess I'm not the only one...

I've had my m500 for the last year and a half and will not give it up until the next TT has a leather flip cover. Thanks for the scoop on the scuba cover, I've been trying to find out what it looks like at any other angle besides the single image that every website posts.
Why not upgrade to m515? Because what use is the color if you can't do anything with it? Okay so its a little, I repeat, a little more colorful, but that's all!

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
xolstis @ 2/4/2003 4:51:21 PM #
Thought that was what everyone is saying the TG50 is = ) A Treo90 replacement. Don't think its as small as the treo tho'. Yes I agree the treo has one of the nicest form factors out there but lacking in some areas. A fair trade-off I wud say. How does the 12-bit color turn up anyway? Heard its still very good and that the 160x160 resolution looks allright due to the smaller screen size.

-the harbinger-
RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/4/2003 4:57:41 PM #
"The 2:20 performance is for full brightness and continuous .mpeg loop, a test that T|T cannot perform."

You may want to double check the test results, as they were done with the screen at 75%, not 100%, and the volume was on low at 25%. Also, are you claiming that the T|T cannot run for 2 hours and 20 minutes, or that the T|T cannot run a video file? Even though my device is not in the same league as the iPaq or the T|T, it ran the same test for over 5 and a half hours. I don't recall the T|T being THAT much worse than the M515.

Also interesting in the 1910 test is that it could not make it 4 hours, even with the screen turned OFF. Can anyone comment on comparative T|T tests?

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
masitti @ 2/4/2003 5:07:13 PM #
"You forgot lack of SDIO and incompatiblility with all other iPAQ expansion. And don't forget the fact that its s-l-o-w : 200mhz XScale is slower then 200mhz strongARM and significantly slower (if i understand correctly) than TI OMAP (especially one running Palm OS 5). I read recently: TT with OMAP(w/integrated DSP) = 575 MIPS vs. 400mhz XScale = 480 MIPS.

What advantage does the 1910 have over the TT (aside form the price - which as this whole article points out - is becoming less of an issue). The only place where the 1910 wins is size (longer but thinner and less width) and virtual graffiti. I'll take the faster, better OS (couldn't resist...), nicer looking, higher-res, better battery life TT anyday."

Tried a h1910 and a T|T at a store. They did the same things the same amount of time. You must be one of those really strong believers in MHz huh... I'm sorry. Oh, and if it makes you feel any better the h1910 can run at 300+ MHz as well.

There is a $100 price difference, size/weight, replacable battery, better form factor (yes, that is right - the h1910 feels much better in the hand than a T|T does), and to top it off: a TRANSFLECTIVE display.



------------------------
Mario Masitti
O/T Mod
I Love Tennis :)

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
masitti @ 2/4/2003 5:12:06 PM #
--Of course you should note that both Julie and Judie choose the TT as their primary PDA...--

Wow, is this not the most thoughtless comment I have ever read. Do you know what personal preference is? Everyone has different needs. Just because a T|T works for Julie and Judie doesn't mean it will work for Joe Guy over there.

------------------------
Mario Masitti
O/T Mod
I Love Tennis :)

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/4/2003 5:31:34 PM #
Altema @ 2/4/2003 4:34:13 PM

Have not taken a closer look at comparing the battery life, but the PPC users here in my company of 14,000 would be very interested in seeing how you got better performance than DTG professional. We have the biggest PPC evangelists around who will even chalenge you to your face unprovoked. They lose everytime. The last two challenges were to see who could do video better, and who could sync a 3Mb Word document better. Except for sound quality, the latest iPaq lost to even a 16Mb/33Mhz Palm. The PPC screwed up the formatting of the Word doc as usual.
-------------------------

Just as DocToGo is a third Party apps, albeit bundled. DTG cannot match Office solution offered in SpreadCE and Textmaker.
http://www.sprinklerhead.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=28

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/4/2003 5:39:09 PM #
Altema @ 2/4/2003 4:57:41 PM

You may want to double check the test results, as they were done with the screen at 75%, not 100%, and the volume was on low at 25%. Also, are you claiming that the T|T cannot run for 2 hours and 20 minutes, or that the T|T cannot run a video file? Even though my device is not in the same league as the iPaq or the T|T, it ran the same test for over 5 and a half hours. I don't recall the T|T being THAT much worse than the M515.
---------

No T|T cannot run 2:20 matching the gadgeteer condition. It is 75% brightness of transreflectivescreen, and continuous .mp3 with 25% built in speaker. One of the loudest in the market. The second set of test by Gadgeteer was conducted before the existence of OC utilities, something now commonly used to enhance h1910 mp3 mp3 battery endurance.

T|T is also incapable to run standard .wmf/.mpeg test. Something that has been tested in h1910 for a little more than 2 hrs. The only formal test ever published in an internet review nearing the first version of gadgeteer version does not back up what you say.
http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495,2.html#OS

M515 is a different platform all together, and has sub par features offering compared to ARM class PDAs.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Thunderball @ 2/4/2003 6:21:32 PM #
Thanks for the Treo 90 suggestion! I hadn't looked at that one before, but now that I'm aware of its size, it looks INCREDIBLY desirable.

Gone is the grafitti area, which rocks (I only use NewPen anyway) and it has an SD slot!

But where is the leather flip case? :)

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/4/2003 6:51:11 PM #
HS discontinued treo90 already.
RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
xolstis @ 2/4/2003 8:02:06 PM #
Pretty sure u can still find it around though.

-the harbinger-
RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
twalk @ 2/4/2003 8:58:41 PM #
Hey, I'm trying to pick up a spare treo 90, so you guys need to be scaring people away! :-)

More seriously, my treo is the 4th palm pda I've bought, and the first that I carry constantly. The smaller size, weight, KB, and long battery life make a HUGE difference.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
CLB @ 2/4/2003 9:52:01 PM #
I am new to PDA's. I am posting my selection process for your amusement. It also provides a bit of insight into a non brand loyal "newbie" purchase.

My main interest was obtaining a meeting reminder device. It also had to replace a scientific programmable calculator as I was unwilling to be tethered to one more gadget. Whatever I bought needed to be fairly small and light or I wouldn't carry it. Wireless expansion capability to my 802.11b home network would be an optional plus.
My search went as follows:

Tungsten, H54xx not considered. The functionality didn't justify the price (to me).

H39xx, H54xx form factor devices not considered. "Seam ripper" would be a better description than "pocket" anything.

Sony T665, not considered due to battery life.

H1910, I bought one of these and returned it when I learned the SD slot did not support SDIO.

Toshiba E335, I bought one of these and returned it due to USB hotsync problems.

I went to look at an M515 but ended up purchasing an open box m500 for $130. I didn't care about warranty so I proceeded to swap in a 16MB sdram chip and jumper the MB accordingly. I am almost happy with the device. I would like a higher res screen. I use Excel spreadsheets for frequent calculations. I find a 160x160 window into a spreadsheet "less than desireable". I don't care how small the text is, I want to see more of it.
I am content with the processing speed, even on up to 900KB Excel sheets.
The flip cover is great. I wouldn't want to have to extend the case every time I used Graffiti.

Other noteworthy contenders were:
Treo 90 for size and weight. Still 160 x 160 though. At least it comes factory unhacked with 16MB.

Sony (forgot the model) 320 x 320 BW with 16MB. I would probably be better served with this device. I did not purchase it because I am opposed to the lame proprietary memory stick expansion slot.

What I would like to see:
The functionality of the Garmin iQue 3600 with a built in TDMA phone. I suspect I'll be using the 16MB M500 for a while.

Chuck B.

RE: H1910 and SDIO SD card support?
Cheetah @ 2/5/2003 1:48:03 AM #
"H1910, I bought one of these and returned it when I learned the SD slot did not support SDIO."

Please educate me. What is SDIO and why is it important?

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/5/2003 3:28:38 AM #
Secure Digital Input/Output.

It has slightly different wiring to enable I/O peripherals such as camera, communication cards etc. Without it, SD practical use would be just for memory slot. Currently there are about 3 or so SD I/O cards. It is not yet a widely used I/O slot.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Roberto_tores @ 2/5/2003 8:42:24 AM #
"Also T|T's office apps options are inferior to what is available for h1910, including the formating issue"


I don't think so. Have you used Documents to go (free with palms).

Pocket Office does not syncs tables, graphs and pictures just look at the Brighthand article. And where is the PowerPint app in pocket office?

The programs you mention on the PPC like textmaker are expensive third party app.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
CLB @ 2/5/2003 9:43:26 AM #
The 1910 will accept SD memory cards but nothing else. It will not accept SD form factor bluetooth, 802.11b, gps etc.

Chuck B.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
rsc1000 @ 2/5/2003 11:34:45 AM #
>>Tried a h1910 and a T|T at a store. They did the same things the same amount of time. You must be one of those really strong believers in MHz huh... I'm sorry. Oh, and if it makes you feel any better the h1910 can run at 300+ MHz as well.

Ahh - i wasn't talking about Mhz at all - in fact you completely missed my point. I am saying that although the PPCs (both StrongARm and Xscale) feature a HIGHER Mhz rating - the MIPS (millions of instructions per second) rating (a better - though not perfect - indication of performance than Mhz) is significantly higher on the Tungsten T/ OMAP. I suggest you re-read my post and that you think before you post a reply that proves the opposite of the point you are trying to make.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/5/2003 1:17:14 PM #
Roberto_tores @ 2/5/2003 8:42:24 AM
"Also T|T's office apps options are inferior to what is available for h1910, including the formating issue"

I don't think so. Have you used Documents to go (free with palms).

Pocket Office does not syncs tables, graphs and pictures just look at the Brighthand article. And where is the PowerPint app in pocket office?

The programs you mention on the PPC like textmaker are expensive third party app.
---------------

Same question: have you used SpreadCE and Textmaker and compare it to DTG?

The bundled DTG is NOT free. The price is included in the $399 package. It will also cost more to go beyond the basic package. Do your own overall cost analysis comparing the various permutation based on your need.

Note: There is no such thing as free lunch in the world. If you want 100% freebies and warez, stick with paper and pencil.

And again, there is nothing for Tungsten matching office apps featured offered out there for h1910, including direct export import with format intake. Search the usual information site for basic information about software feature, or even its existance. you are not a neophyte.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/5/2003 3:22:25 PM #
"Do you know what personal preference is? Everyone has different needs. Just because a T|T works for Julie and Judie doesn't mean it will work for Joe Guy over there."

Sure do... that's why I posted it in the midst of this 'your device sucks because it's different from mine' thread. It was supposed to be light-hearted sarcasm. For some, PPC OS suits their preference. For others, it's Palm OS. I know that as well as anyone.


RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/5/2003 3:44:29 PM #
Trilobyte, DTG is free and is not taken off the plate when they drop the prices. The version Palm gives you is not the basic version, it is the professional edition. There is a charge for the last step up to DTG Premium which includes an email client which I choose not to use. The other 3rd party apps you mentioned look interesting and much more capable than the Pocket Office which is included on the PPC platform. Don’t think I like the charting though… MiniCalc is still tops from my experience :)

In regards to the whole 'T|T can't do xx' thing, I think you are getting caught on the technicalities. The T|T does video fine. Not in native format, and I think that is your sticking point. Can you load an mpeg file on the T|T and play it? No, and you are absolutely right, it can’t be done.

But on that same token, you can say that the 1910 cannot run the AtomSmash demo, and is therefore inferior. I don’t think so, and I think you would agree that not being able to run a certain game demo does not degrade the value of a device unless it was mandatory. (BTW: the demo on the T|T ran slightly longer than the mpeg test on the 1910, but only by a few minutes)

But the more important question for me, is whether or not it is desirable to run mpegs in native format on a handheld device.

I’ve done a little bit in the way of video production, camera work, editing, engineering, and I’ve even filled in as producer when the need arises. I look at results, and question is: Does it make sense to load a 30Mb file onto a handheld instead of a 2.8Mb file when there is no improvement in image quality or frame rate of the exact same material?

Ahh, but I’d have to convert it! Yes that’s right, so let’s take a look at the actual process involved.

PPC: Load file to be synced by ActiveSync and press the button on the cradle. Process takes about 10 minutes.

Palm: Drag file to converter and press enter. Double click on produced file, then press button on cradle. Process takes about 7 minutes.

The point is that the Cinepak Mobile format is better suited for handheld devices than avi or mpeg. The T|T can’t play mpeg in native format, and PPC can’t play Cinepak Mobile in native format.

Of course, the only reason anyone is going back and forth on this particular battery test is because no one has taken the same video file, converted it frame-for-frame, and run it on the Palms for comparison. The AtomSmash test is a carryover from before Palms could do video, but no one wanted to change the ‘standard’ because we’d have to re-test all the former devices as well. Does AtomSmash draw more power than a video file? It would be interesting to find out.

You could help me out here… do you have any links to the avi/mpeg files that are used in the ‘standard’ PPC video tests? Perhaps we can just break out of the mold and do some tests that are more relative.

PS: I know that the 515 is in a different class, and stated that in the post. I only included the reference because some have said that the battery life is comparable between the two, but I’m beginning to doubt that myself.


RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
blue9 @ 2/5/2003 6:52:57 PM #
I had the treo 90 for a little bit. While it's small size was very nice, the 12-bit display really looked aweful when compared to a 16 bit color clie that's a little bigger in size.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/5/2003 7:08:34 PM #
Minicalc only support about 1/5 of SpreadCE with $20 (unlimited shareware) price. Minicalc cannot function without converter and only have 80 functions, no macros, smaller sheet size, etc etc. SpreadCE is capable of direct export import excel97, RTF,BMP, delimited, etc..

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=456001

.mpeg is the standard for video compression, not kinoma or cinepak. .mpeg has higher compression efficiency than kinoma at variety of load setting.

Active sync is automatic process, and transferring file into and out of PPC are just another folder in desktop for most files. No conversion, no fiddling around.

Load test using .mpeg represent viewing standard 2hrs movie. The load test represent one of what PDA should be able to do to claim multimedia capable. A lot of site offers resized .mpeg for PPC viewing, including independent movie and trailers. (pocketmovie, pocketmatrix.com)

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/6/2003 10:33:51 AM #
"Load test using .mpeg represent viewing standard 2hrs movie. The load test represent one of what PDA should be able to do to claim multimedia capable. A lot of site offers resized .mpeg for PPC viewing, including independent movie and trailers. (pocketmovie, pocketmatrix.com)"

As I recall, most video tests are done using the Aliens video which is in AVI format, not MPEG. Most video encoders captire in AVI format (VideoWave and MovieStar for example), and then the output can be in in AVI, MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG3, MPEG4, Real Video, VideoCD, etc.

Your claim is that there is only one codec that's valid for testing, correct?

In regards to mpeg being a better codec than Cinepak Mobile, in what regards? Quality? Compression algorithms? Forgive the many questions, but I'm trying to get an accurate perspective on your opinion.

As far as getting around the wasted space of a 640x480 mpeg on a 2 inch screen, do you really think that it is easier to dig around on the net for someone else's re-sized videos, rather than drag and drop anything you want?

The kind of stuff I want on my handheld is usually not the 15-30 second clips. I'm more interested in a few favorite scenes from a movie, or a CA video, or a half hour show, or a full length version of that movie that I never have the time to sit down and watch.

That leaves a problem for me, as I usually can't find exactly what I'm looking for on the net, and usually make it myself. An example is a 54 minute childrens video. Yea, junk to you and me, but you should see them plastered to that little screen! Being able to do so for 5 hours is a plus. Do the kids even care what format it's in?

So I'm back to the decision of what work best for me: being able to play someone else's selections, or make what I really want to see? I could re-size and maintain the mpeg codec, but I know first hand that this is no easier than converting to Cinepak Mobile, and the results are no better.

In conclusion, I have to state that there is no quality or compression advantage to keeping files in the mpeg format that has been demonstrated. There is no speed advantage to keeping the mpeg format, as it is quicker to convert and sync other formats than it is to simply sync a native mpeg... unless you get one that was already converted. No one has done direct comparitive testing between the two platforms, so we only have a loose collection of random results on which to base our opinions. The good thing is that we can each have our opinions and have fun with our PDAs.

The goal of any video player is image quality, good sound sync, and respectable frame rate. If that's what you have, then I'm happy for you. I have that too, even if the sound sucks on my current device :)

PS: In MiniCalc, I was referring to the charting. I prefer it's charting options, but that does not necessarily mean it's the best in other functions.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/6/2003 11:38:49 AM #
PPS: Excuse the typos, I'm in a meeting ;)

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/6/2003 11:50:10 AM #
"Altema @ 2/6/2003 10:33:51 AM
Your claim is that there is only one codec that's valid for testing, correct?"

No my claim is, .mpeg is the most common and widely accepted file format for compressing file specially for portable handheld. It has far superior compression algorithm for the picture quality and memory.

an ideal codec would be: near movie screen qualtiy, at cost of no CPU load and reduce the file size to almost nothing all with easily accessible tools for user. .mpeg certainly can beat some of this criteria than cinepak. (does anybody actually use this codec beside a few Palm user?)

Minicalc: I post CHART on the link. A type of chart that minicalc cannot do "radar" chart.

Third down
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=456001

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Altema @ 2/6/2003 3:04:33 PM #
"No my claim is, .mpeg is the most common and widely accepted file format for compressing file specially for portable handheld."

By that logic you should not even be considering the iPaq: Palm OS is the most common and widely accepted PDA format for portable handheld.

"It has far superior compression algorithm for the picture quality and memory."

Test results are below using the same source video, which is a 2 minute 10 second music video. The data rate was matched as close as possible, as I could not get an exact match with my video production software. I adjusted it slightly lower to favor smaller file size for the MPEG file.

MPEG:
30fps, 160x120 size, 712kbps data rate, mono audio @ 8Khz sampling, file size = 96,177kb

Cinepak Mobile:
30fps, 160x120 size, 720kbps data rate, mono audio @ 8Khz sampling, file size = 10,839kb

The playback is identical, and the image detail quality is difficult to tell apart. The exception was the color vibrancy of the MPEG being played back on a $3000 laptop screen as opposed to a $299 PDA screen.


"an ideal codec would be: near movie screen qualtiy, at cost of no CPU load and reduce the file size to almost nothing all with easily accessible tools for user. .mpeg certainly can beat some of this criteria than cinepak. (does anybody actually use this codec beside a few Palm user?)"

I agree completly with your ideals. The codec is one of the most popular among Palm OS devices. Sony Pictures has their movie trailers available in either MOV or Cinepak format.

"Minicalc: I post CHART on the link. A type of chart that minicalc cannot do "radar" chart."

I don't use radar charts, but I'm sure there are lots of peole that do use them. I prefer the MiniCalc charts because I like how they look on the charts I use. It's a preference not a mandate. My old Plymouth Valiant with a hand-built 360CID police interceptor could do things that my minivan cannot, like light the tires from a 60Mph roll... But I'm not going to shoot someone that has another preferrence.

RE: Tungsten not as impressive anymore...
Trilobyte @ 2/6/2003 3:52:13 PM #
Altema @ 2/6/2003 3:04:33 PM
"By that logic you should not even be considering the iPaq: Palm OS is the most common and widely accepted PDA format for portable handheld."

Except we are not talking about PDA format here, but file format. (ie. a PDA capability to handle widest available formats) And file format in Palm are more balkanized than the former Yugoslavia. There isn't even a universal office suit file format in the entire platform, let alone with the rest of computing world (desktop)

"MPEG:
30fps, 160x120 size, 712kbps data rate, mono audio @ 8Khz sampling, file size = 96,177kb
Cinepak Mobile:
30fps, 160x120 size, 720kbps data rate, mono audio @ 8Khz sampling, file size = 10,839kb"

1.Cinepak Codec license is expensive.
2.Tool is not widely available in desktop
3.Picture quality at same low rate is not as good, specially fast moving scene. (notice how you test at 712kbps, instead of asking, how much space can I shrink Spiderman DVD heh... )
4.has far stronger backing by the industry, resulting in hardware .mpeg4 chip for eg.
5.Most NX Clie user will say kinoma doesn't match their built in ,mpeg based player. (maybe illusion, but Kinoma sure doens't play withsound on NX).

"I don't use radar charts, but I'm sure there are lots of peole that do use them. I prefer the MiniCalc charts because I like how they look on the charts I use. It's a preference not a mandate. "

after confronted with limitation of a type of charting feature, all of a sudden now you say, you prefer Minicalc because it taste like chocolate. Well guess what, I prefer pocket excel because it smells like morning dew. (Hint: You started the whole deal with feature comparison/specification, not if I like this or that better)

TT for $359

4s @ 2/4/2003 2:46:01 PM #
RE: TT for $359
gaia @ 2/5/2003 12:30:36 AM #
good, but it is backorder now..

Instead, I ordered from Staples.com. After $50 coupon, plus tax, the net price tag becomes $361. Not too bad either...

TT not selling well

Foo Fighter @ 2/4/2003 3:12:13 PM #
Just found this at CNET:

"The Tungsten T ranked as one of least popular handhelds sold in the fourth quarter at No. 14."

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-983280.html?tag=fd_top



"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: TT not selling well
mclove @ 2/4/2003 3:24:37 PM #
You'll notice that in the previous paragraph they mention the fact that the TT was "unveiled in late October". And everyone who tried to get a TT when they were first released knows that it really wasn't until November that they were widely available, and probably longer than that before they filtered down to the CompUSA crowd in large quantities. Since the fourth quarter begins on October 1st, this means that the Tungsten had at best maybe 2/3 as much selling time as the other handhelds did. So that #14 position is pretty much meaningless; wait for the Q1 numbers and see what the TT looks like then.

RE: TT not selling well
radleyp @ 2/4/2003 3:31:29 PM #
I realize the danger of reaching big conclusions on the basis of anecdotal evidence, but I live and shop in NYC and drop in on computer stores when walking around. Every store I have been to is up to the gills with TT units. On CNET, you can get it - after just 3 months on the market! - for more than 30% off the original price. If I had bought one (and I was ready, I just wasn't impressed enough around Xmas), I would be hopping mad now. I think that Sony helped Palm's sales (collusion?) by showing only the much larger clamshell designs during the holiday season. I'm glad they are around, however, since I think it's Sony - and its muscle - that's keeping Palm going. PDR

RE: TT not selling well
xolstis @ 2/4/2003 5:03:22 PM #
Collusion - pollution = ). Tend to agree though that it was a pretty good thing that happened and palmOS is keeping all niches of the market covered = ). And yea...believe SONY is a breath of life for palm. Esp with Dell on the PPC side now. We need big fat manufacturers.

-the harbinger-
RE: TT not selling well
speedracer5 @ 2/4/2003 10:03:56 PM #
Usually the most one of the more expensive items, whether it be Palms or automobiles, do not outsell everything else. This shouldn't be surprising. BMW's are ranked better than most cars on the planet, but they don't sell the most because of price. Just because something isn't the number one seller, doesn't mean it isn't one of the better items available.

------------------------------------------------------
You may be a race car driver at heart if you refer to leaving your driveway as "Turn 1"
Price
rsc1000 @ 2/5/2003 11:44:00 AM #
Palm milked the high-margins on early adopters for the first few mnonths and now they lower the price to sell more units and make it competitive. the CNET article says nothing about how much they made from the TT. I wouldn't be surprised if their profits from the TT were higher then any other unit on the market. I mean -hardware wise - they should be able to produce this thing for the same price as the averagee PPC - but its more expensive to buy.

RE: TT not selling well
xolstis @ 2/5/2003 4:43:06 PM #
Very true although the zire ranks so highly in sales I'm not sure they made any much more than they made frm the T|T. BUt perhaps they did seeing the specs of the zire....muahaha.... nothing against the zire btw, think its a brilliant move by the marketing dept in palm. But....muahaaah = )

-the harbinger-

Here comes Veld!

awdr @ 2/4/2003 3:47:50 PM #
Wasn´t "Veld" the third name Palm registered? Hopefully its an improved TT!!!
RE: Here comes Veld!
xolstis @ 2/4/2003 5:01:42 PM #
Someone suggested it would be the mid range palm handheld. I tend to agree. Of the three new names registered and we have already seen 2. The zire appears to be the low end one. the Tungsten|T the high end device so that leaves a gap in the palm lineup in the mid-range. Let just hope their definition of mid-range includes OS5

-the harbinger-
RE: Here comes Veld!
gfunkmagic @ 2/4/2003 7:39:25 PM #
I don't think the "Veld" will necesarilly be a mid-range model. PIC previously reported that Palm had singed a contract with Asus to build 200,000 X-scale based pda's by the 1st quarter of 2003. I would imagine PalmSG would announce this device by Cebit, Germany in March 2003 if we are to believe the article.

Furthermore, PalmSG had also stated that their 1st smartphone device would run on TI chips, presumably the new OMAP. Thus, the "Veld" may be the name of a new smartphone from PalmSG as well. In fact there was a pic of a design reference leaked to PIC a few months ago.

In any case, the drop in T|T prices indicates to me that perhaps PalmSG is shifting the Tungsten line to the midrange or high-midrange? You can already find the T|T for approx. $350 on many sites. I would imagine the prices will eventually drop even lower to the $300 price point with time. If this happens, the T|T will be a dmaned good bargin for a midrange pda IMHO..

RE: Here comes Veld!
xolstis @ 2/4/2003 8:09:25 PM #
An excellent observation. But isn't the Tungsten W considered a smartphone yet? Anyway the argument still stands IF the Veld is launched as a smartphone series and the T|T is dropped to mid-range(lets hope this happens). They will now haf a gap in the high end segment of their market. I am pretty sure they will not let SONY dominate the high end models. Hehe hope for hi-res + 32MB RAM....basically the Garmin without GPS and a M515 form factor = ). We have a winner....hehe I know its wishful thinking....for now..

-the harbinger-
RE: Here comes Veld!
gfunkmagic @ 2/4/2003 8:32:07 PM #
The lack of integrated mic/speaker in the T|W nullifies the device as a smartphone IMHO. This lack of simple phone functionality points to PalmSG strategy of targeting the enterprise BB market, not the Treo market IMHO.

RE: Here comes Veld!
TSC @ 2/4/2003 9:40:33 PM #
I agree with your comments about the lack of a integrated mic/speaker on the Tungsten W. Who wants to have to lug around extra accessories just to use a 'smart phone'! A smart phone should be smart enough to include its own mic/speaker! The market wants to eliminate carrying extra equipment, not add to it.

I carry a phone, pager and a pda. If a products exist that integrates all three units into just one, I would buy it (Why do it still use a pager? Because one battery change last 24 hrs/7 days a week for over a month. Compare that battery life with current PDAs or smart phones).

The Palm Tungsten W is going to loose a lot of potential sales because of its lack of an integrated mic/speaker. I was looking forward to the Tungsten W, but now the competition looks better.

Does the Palm company have a Marketing and Sale department [:-)? Perhaps they are "undercover" agents working for their competitor companies [:-).

I still like Palm and wish them well.

TSC


RE: Here comes Veld!
xolstis @ 2/4/2003 11:15:38 PM #
Allright so the T|W is a smartphone without the smart part of it. But yea totally agree that the use of a phone without a built in mic and spkrphone seems like a serious and almost intentional oversight by palm. And no BT? At least if it had dat one might consider a BT headset

-the harbinger-
RE: Here comes Veld!
whitemiata @ 2/4/2003 11:19:45 PM #
I think the TW's lack of microphone/speaker has been made into a bigger deal than it is.

The device has input/output for a headset, right?

What stops anyone from making a case for the phone that implements a speaker and mic?

The cost differential would be minimal, and actually I would expect the package to perform much better than it would have if the mic/speaker were on the unit itself.

Sure it'd a been nice if Palm included *something* out of the box... I guess what I'm trying to point out is that this huge shortcoming is something that could be fixed with about $20 worth of hardware (at a profit)

Alessandro

RE: Here comes Veld!
gfunkmagic @ 2/4/2003 11:54:42 PM #
Quote:

"I carry a phone, pager and a pda. If a products exist that integrates all three units into just one, I would buy it"

Hey TSC, so do I!! The primary reason I still carry a pager is b/c the signal strength and coverage is still stronger than my mobile, especially inside large steel/concrete bulidings as often the case in hospitals etc (i.e. doctors are one of the last major markets for pagers). Also you don't want to give your cell number to everyone either! What I would ideally want is a convergence device that could have two numbers assigned to it: one for the mobile and one for the pager. Alas, this is not possible. SMS, email functionality like in the Treo 300 is great, but I need simple numeric paging as well...

RE: Here comes Veld!
gfunkmagic @ 2/5/2003 12:01:34 AM #
Quote:
"I think the TW's lack of microphone/speaker has been made into a bigger deal than it is. The device has input/output for a headset, right? What stops anyone from making a case for the phone that implements a speaker and mic?"

Nothing, but thats not the point. IMHO, PalmSG purposely left out integrated mic/speaker in order to emphasize the "always on email" connectivity of the device. This device is primarily a replacement for the i705, its not a full fledged entrant of PalmSG into the smartphone segment b/c frankly they could have done much better. There are so many players in this segment that IMHO PalmSG simply had respond: BB, nokia 6800, Motorola 6510 etc. Of course, I think it would have been wise for them to offer a fully functional smartphone, but perhaps that it still in the plans? Veld anyone?

RE: Here comes Veld!
xolstis @ 2/5/2003 12:45:56 AM #
You could be right in them wanting to emphasize its data connectivity rather than its phone feature but still IMHO its a rather stupid thing to do as by giving it a speaker and mic, u said it would hafta compete with many other devices....which is true, but why not? Its not like they are competing against another one of their own products.

Also while its very true that it wud be a simple and relatively cheap thing to add in a piece of hardware to give it a mic and speaker I personally dun like hardware add-ins as they alter the overall form factor and possibly the pocketability of the device.

-the harbinger-

RE: Here comes Veld!
Altema @ 2/5/2003 4:50:42 PM #
The T|W will have a cover with an integrated speaker and mic. Palm has not decided if it will be optional or included.

The Next Thing

SuccessWizard @ 2/4/2003 11:49:33 PM #
We all know that there will always be a "next" Palm coming. The current m550 (the Tungsten | T) is just, to quote Pink Floyd "another brick in the wall". The Tungsten | W is semi-old news because it's been outed officially since the T was officially announced. The W's hold-up was adoption by carriers for the wireless services AND sell through on the stock of i705's.

Furthermore, the W is an OS 4.1 device, so it is really old generation technology.

On the otherhand, the T is new generation and leading edge as Palm OS goes. I waited until today -- 2/4/03 to get full MP3 support via AeroPlayer. It was worth the wait.

As for issues with the T's, I had a unit that crashed repeatedly when I played Bejewled -- and I returned it for another. In that exchange time -- about a week, when I was deciding what to do -- I found out that the problem is really the Bejewled program for OS5 and not the unit. As for other issues -- "dust", digitizer, slack slider syndrom, etc... -- I don't have a single one of them on my unit or the demo unit at my store or the 50 or so I've set-up for clients. So, I chalk the problems -- other than the digitizer, which I believe is valid -- to over-picky users.

As for the T being number 14 -- sure, that's right, it is. The Zire was number one I believe -- and represented 1/3 of Palm's sales for the year(?). Facts have to be viewed in context. But, ok, the T is number 14, so what. It's obviously popular enough to make it into the pockets of serious handheld users in mass. No matter what the issues, the statistics and the opinions of the world, I like my T and plan to use it fully until I find that the next thing is better.

As for price -- I found the price fair at $499, I find it fair at $399 too. I also found the m500 fair at it's entry price and I find it fair at the $149 it's selling for now (when you can get it.) Sure, I'd like to have my $100 back, but then I wouldn't have had the last 3+ months of enjoyment with the T -- playing on the cutting edge of Palm technology and exploring new Palm world. Hey, it kept me outta the bars!

Mike Lohsl
Palm & Pocket PC Advisor

www.successwizard.com

RE: The Next Thing
gfunkmagic @ 2/5/2003 12:13:19 AM #
Quote:
"As for price -- I found the price fair at $499, I find it fair at $399 too."

I disagree with the 1st part. PalmSG has consistantly over-charged its customers through out its history. No way the T|T could be justified at $500 any longer when competitors like Dell and etc are selling their products at price points way below. In fact at $400, the T|T is still about $50 over priced...

RE: The Next Thing
xolstis @ 2/5/2003 12:43:34 AM #
They're just trying to squeeze the most outta the market gfunkmagic. No matter what they are still a corporation and corporations are there to make profit and not losses and they have been struggling with that. If you're hoping for a perfectly non-profit seeking company.....well dream on = ). At least palm lowers the prices after a while when they realise that they've more or less squeezed out all they can from those lucky ones who can afford it and the rest of us who can't afford it but can't wait either = ).

-the harbinger-
RE: The Next Thing
hotpaw4 @ 2/5/2003 2:40:59 AM #
You can only consistantly overcharge your customers if you are a monopoly, otherwise customers won't buy enough for your product to have good market share. That's a better description of the competition to PalmOS products.
RE: The Next Thing
Fly-By-Night @ 2/5/2003 8:57:01 AM #
Absolutely. If you don't have a monopoly, and customers are willing to pay a price for a product/service; how can it be overcharging?

FBN

-----
Ceci n'est pas une signature.

RE: The Next Thing
alexp @ 2/5/2003 2:22:13 PM #
>> "No way the T|T could be justified at $500 any longer when competitors like Dell and etc are selling their products at price points way below." <<

Of course, for that "unjustified" price, you can actually USE a T|T. Buy the Dell and you might be using it sometime in the next 2 months. I'd also like to see what happens to the Axim after it's been on the market for 4 months.

And while we're at it, let's talk about QC issues. People harp on the T|T, but have you seen the QC on the Dell? It's a nightmare of cheapness and problems.

Overcharging?
Patrick @ 2/6/2003 1:45:50 PM #
Except for monopolies, I don't think it is possible for a company to "over-charge" a customer. If the customer didn't think it was worth the money, then the customer can simply walk away.

I bought the Tungsten at the higher price, but I can't be mad at Palm for doing business the way they see fit. They made an offer to me to buy a particular device at a particular cost and I said yes. I won't turn around now and say "You guys screwed me." If anybody screwed me, it was me for making the decision to buy.

Come on, folks, take some responsibility for your own decisions.

RE: The Next Thing
dsm363 @ 2/7/2003 9:04:55 AM #
Exactly. I bought it at the higher price (although I got it for $420 from Staples with an online coupon) and have used it for the last 3 months and love it. It's best the just buy something when you're ready and then promise yourself you won't get pissed off if they drop the price on you (which will happen) or they replace your model (which will also happen). The Tungsten T is a great PDA.

Marketing 101

pdajunkie @ 2/5/2003 6:47:33 AM #
New OS, new processor, new screen, new form = skim the top! Some folks will pay a hefty price to be first and at $499, given the competition from Dell and HP, that's hefty in the PDA world.

I paid such a price for my TT (although I did receive a $25 rebate from Circuit City) and I consider $100 for 12 weeks of solid entertainment playing with the newest gizmo a pretty good deal!

I'm also happy others that may have past up the TT before will jump on the product now that it's more in line with other PDA prices.

Regards
Jeff G



Palm Tungsten V

yOyOYoo @ 2/5/2003 4:04:34 PM #
The replacement for the TT will have the same sliding mechanism, however what will be new will be palm's implimentation of virtual graffiti.

Some minor issues will be resolved: digitizer problems, built in mp3 capability, polymorphic speaker and new Graffiti 2 built in, as well as removable battery pack. The biggest and most noticible improvement will be virtual graffiti with skinning capabilities. I can't wait!



RE: Palm Tungsten V
xolstis @ 2/5/2003 4:46:08 PM #
Erm is this coming of your imagination or frm some secret untold of source? = )

-the harbinger-
RE: Palm Tungsten V
ozz @ 2/5/2003 11:58:30 PM #
WOW!!! Where did you hear about this Tungsten V model? Sounds fantastic! Virtual graffiti...now we're talking!

RE: Palm Tungsten V
cyruski @ 2/8/2003 9:54:46 AM #
polymorphic speaker!?

RE: Palm Tungsten V
adamrichman @ 2/9/2003 10:06:59 PM #
I'm sure they thought long and hard about this too. What's the point of VG if you have a slider to cover it up?

And let's stop and think about the name folks. "TV"

Let's see a source of information before we jump through hoops of fire...

Palm Newsletter....

edeab220 @ 2/5/2003 4:39:28 PM #
Look at this quote from the latest Palm Newsletter:

-----Quote-----
Color Never Looked this Good!
Stunning color for a stunning price. The Palm Store is now offering $100 off on the Palm™ Tungsten™ T handheld and $50 off either the Palm™ m515 handheld or the Palm™ m130 handheld. Only while supplies last!
-----Quote-----

While supplies last?! Does that mean that the TT, m515, and m130 will be discontinued soon?

----------
Proud owner of...(dead) Visor, Visor Dlx, Palm VIIx, (dead) Visor Prism, and a Sony Clie NR70!!

Senior Editor at: www.pocketloft.com

RE: Palm Newsletter....
xolstis @ 2/5/2003 4:46:50 PM #
I seriously doubt they wil discontinue the T|T so soon. While supplies last is probably just a catch phrase to mean that they might just decide to increase the prices of their products again thus making uninformed ppl jumping straight in and buying it now? = )

-the harbinger-
RE: Palm Newsletter....
graph @ 2/5/2003 6:04:32 PM #
sony is coming up with new devices and they need to get as much market as possible before sony takes a bite.

Treo 90

ozz @ 2/5/2003 11:48:20 PM #
Those interested in GREAT pricing on Treo 90's---check out Ebay. Just do a search for "Treo 90". You should be able to find a "gently used" one for around $100 or a brand new one for around $150-175. Worth a look. I bought a replacement Palm Vx for $59 on Ebay recently and it's as good as new.

Radio Shack refund

swieder @ 2/10/2003 5:46:52 PM #
I bought my TT on Jan 6 at a local Radio Shack for $470 which included a 2 year service agreement from Palm.

After reading this article I yesterday, I went back to RadioShack and they gave me an $79.00 credit.

Thanks PIC for saving me some moneny

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