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Comments on: Sony CLIE SJ33 First Impressions Review

Clie PEG SJ33Sony has officially announced the SJ33 in the US. The SJ33 is Sony's latest mid-range color handheld. The PEG SJ33 sports a sleek new exterior design and casing with an integrated translucent flip cover, mp3 audio and a larger capacity rechargeable battery. Read more for our first impressions review with plenty of high-res pictures.
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Wow

nXt @ 2/17/2003 5:00:09 AM #
Wow, looking at the screen through the smoked flip cover looks cool

nXt's Clie Club
Place To Be For Sony Clie Discussion
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nxtclieclub
and stay tuned for more on the SJ33 in our detailed review.
Sid_Sid @ 7/8/2003 1:57:45 PM #
When will this "Detailed Review" be posted? Hopefully before the SJ33 is discontinued, and with Sony, that's won't be very long.

However, I must say, this "First Impression" is a well done quick review.

This is a good but may still not be enough..

gfunkmagic @ 2/17/2003 6:21:05 AM #
I would certainly get the SJ33 over the M515 for example. But I still think this device is going to face some tough competition from Axim X5. Like I've said before, what we really need is a midrange OS 5 tablet pda near or under the $300 price-point. Otherwise in the long run, OS 4.1 just doesn't cut it against PPC 2002 at these prices IMO. Hopefully, the price of the SJ33 will drop precipitously in the months to come...

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
Palm Cow @ 2/17/2003 9:05:11 AM #
I agree. However, it is sad that the Axim can be so cheap. Once this goes down to $250, and it will fast, it should be able to compete well.

I think the much-wanted OS5 tablet will be based on either the SJ30 or SJ33, hopefully SJ33. You must keep in mind that this won't need a case.

----------------
Captain on the Bridge!

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
sixty-four @ 2/17/2003 11:37:08 AM #
I dunno...

That glossy plastic shell doesn't look like it'll hold up to everyday scuffing too well.

It's too bad Sony didn't go with a textured, pebbled plastic shell. My old Palm IIIxe had such a shell and it was remarkably scratch-resistant. If the case does become scuffed, the texture helps to camoflauge it.

It's also too bad that this thing is so thick and heavy.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
OcellNuri @ 2/17/2003 1:00:46 PM #
The TG50 is going to be Sony's answer to the Axim. It will come out at under $400 and feature OS5 with built in bluetooth, voice recording, and a built in keyboard. While it isn't as cheap as the Axim right away, we all know the price will drop quickly just as they do with all of Sony's models.

It's "Ocell" for short.
RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
EdH @ 2/17/2003 2:29:55 PM #
Brand new device, no MemSTick Pro and .86 inches thick? My iPAQ *with* a CF sleeve isn't much thicker than that.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
abosco @ 2/17/2003 3:50:54 PM #
Your iPaq *with* a CF sleve isn't $299.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
scaught @ 2/17/2003 4:17:55 PM #
point. set. match. abosco.

why the constant PPC comparisons? its so pointless.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
EdH @ 2/17/2003 4:49:49 PM #
It was simply a hardware comparison. No, the iPAQ with CF sleeve isn't $299, but then again, there are a few dozen things I can do with my iPAQ (with or without the sleeve) that this series of Sonys can't.

I just find the '33 incredibly thick at 7/8ths of an inch. If you want a comparison:
Dell Axim $314 (or $224 for the 300MHz 32MB version):
Length 5.04 inches
Width 3.21 inches
Height 0.71 inches
Weight 6.9 oz

Sony SJ33:
Length 4.25 inches
Width 2.88 inches
Height .88 inches
Weight 6.1oz

The Axim measures quite favorably in dimensions to the SJ33 and includes dual slots (CF and SD) *and* a cradle* for the $314 and to say the Axim is svelt is a joke. The Viewsonic V35 comes in at $299 too.

I just don't see what the SJ33 offers. $299 is a bit much IMHO for a not-so-small PDA with 16MB of memory and doesn't support memory stick cards above 128MB. It has *NOTHING* to do with the OS on the device. Purely a hardware issue. Put a Palm OS5, 300MHz processor, 32-64MB of RAM, Memory Stick Pro (or better yet, SD) in it and then maybe, but Sony would definitey charge $399-$499 for it.

Sorry abosco - not point set and match. The ball is back on your side of the net.


RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
mj6798 @ 2/17/2003 5:30:57 PM #
"However, it is sad that the Axim can be so cheap."

Why is that "sad"? If the Axim is cheap, then Palm will be forced to lower prices to compete, and that's good.

Tablet PDA
mj6798 @ 2/17/2003 5:37:13 PM #
"I think the much-wanted OS5 tablet will be based on either the SJ30 or SJ33,"

What OS5 tablet? Some commentator said at the beginning of the year that he thought that this would be a good move for Sony. Is there any indication that anybody is working on it?

I think the idea of using Palm OS5 for a 640x480 tablet is pretty silly, actually. The Palm OS GUI wasn't designed for those kinds of screens. And the limitations on memory make that implausible, too. Maybe with Palm OS6, this will make more sense.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
bunnyhero @ 2/17/2003 7:40:41 PM #
"$299 is a bit much IMHO for a not-so-small PDA"

not-so-small? by your own post you demonstrate that the sj33 is a full 3/4" inch shorter (16% shorter!) and a third of an inch narrower (10% reduction in width) than the axim. when you hold these things in your hand these fractions of an inch make a *big* difference.

i finally picked up and played with an sj-30 at a sony store last night and was very impressed by the size, style and form factor. i would hardly call it 'not-so-small'...


RE: Tablet PDA
hotpaw4 @ 2/17/2003 8:27:26 PM #
someone wrote:
>I think the idea of using Palm OS5 for a 640x480 tablet is pretty silly, actually. The Palm OS GUI wasn't designed for those kinds of screens. And the limitations on memory make that implausible, too. Maybe with Palm OS6, this will make more sense.

The Dana already has a tablet width display; the NX/NR series have tablet height. The RAM sizes have been limited mainly by battery size and the use of older processor chips. But a PalmOS tablet would have room for a much bigger heavier battery, and an OS 5/6 tablet can use processor chips which can address a lot more memory than 16/32 MB.

Given the limited success of the Newton MessagePad, et. al. I'm not sure it would make business sense though...

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
abosco @ 2/18/2003 2:40:06 AM #
"I think the idea of using Palm OS5 for a 640x480 tablet is pretty silly, actually. The Palm OS GUI wasn't designed for those kinds of screens. And the limitations on memory make that implausible, too. Maybe with Palm OS6, this will make more sense."

This isn't what was meant by "tablet" OS 5 device. He meant something like an m515 with OS 5 or a T665c with OS 5. The upcoming TG50 is a tablet OS 5 device.

Now, Ed, while you bring up a good point as to the hardware presented, I'll point out that the 66 MHz processor is fast enough for all multimedia needs. For Palm OS, this is the cheapest PDA with an MP3 player. Very impressive. Of course, it's nothing new in the PPC arena since, you know, Microshaft mandates multimedia into their OS, severly limiting choices presented to the consumer, so companies either have to survive on razor thin profit margins to get into the low-end or they'll just have to forget about it.

And this thing IS significantly smaller than the Axim. While this may be thicker, it's shorter, and call me crazy, but I'd take a slightly thicker, yet shorter device over a longer, but thinner device in the same volume any day.

This shouldn't be your target if you're looking to compare PPC's to Palms. Try the TG50. OS 5, 200 MHz (that's right, 200 MHz... we don't have the X-Scale bottleneck that PPC's do), Bluetooth, all the multimedia goodies, keyboard, 320x320, built-in flipcover, and it's at $399 ready to ship April 1st.

Or you could go down to the SJ22. $199 and you get 320x320 16 bit color and all of the features of the SJ30 in a package that is rumored to be like the SJ33.

And Ed, I'm still waiting for your *fair* simplicity editorial. Comparing the 3955 to the m100 isn't exactly the fairest of editorials I've ever seen.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
EdH @ 2/18/2003 12:24:24 PM #
"Now, Ed, while you bring up a good point as to the hardware presented, I'll point out that the 66 MHz processor is fast enough for all multimedia needs. For Palm OS, this is the cheapest PDA with an MP3 player. Very impressive. Of course, it's nothing new in the PPC arena since, you know, Microshaft mandates multimedia into their OS, severly limiting choices presented to the consumer, so companies either have to survive on razor thin profit margins to get into the low-end or they'll just have to forget about it."

Have you seen Palm Solutions' and Handspring's income statements yet? They aren't making any fat margins.
"This shouldn't be your target if you're looking to compare PPC's to Palms."

Wasn't trying to compare the OS. Just with the hardware has to offer. Stick the Pocket PC OS on this and OS5 on an iPAQ h1910 and I'd make the same comparisons. The SJ33 hardware is just too expensive for what it does.

"And Ed, I'm still waiting for your *fair* simplicity editorial. Comparing the 3955 to the m100 isn't exactly the fairest of editorials I've ever seen."

100% of my comments holds true for any Pocket PC at any price and any Palm under $400 and several above $400. There I was comparing the very basics - PIM and basic usability. I never fired up the advanced features on the Pocket PC to make comparisons.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
mj6798 @ 2/18/2003 1:31:42 PM #
The Dana already has a tablet width display; the NX/NR series have tablet height.

Yes, and the companies that created those machines had to license Palm OS, hack it up, and add their own APIs. And existing applications don't automatically adapt to the size of those new displays--they have to be hacked up specially or the OS merely scales them up. Contrast that with other window systems, where the same application runs on screens with a wide variety of sizes and resolutions.

The RAM sizes have been limited mainly by battery size and the use of older processor chips. But a PalmOS tablet would have room for a much bigger heavier battery, and an OS 5/6 tablet can use processor chips which can address a lot more memory than 16/32 MB.

Again, you can stick more memory into the machine, but it doesn't look like regular Palm applications will be able to take advantage of it; the extra memory will just end up being there for data storage.

To let applications take advantage of larger screens and large memories, Palm needs to make big changes to the APIs. Let's hope they will do that in Palm OS 6.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
mj6798 @ 2/18/2003 1:46:35 PM #
"Wasn't trying to compare the OS. Just with the hardware has to offer. Stick the Pocket PC OS on this and OS5 on an iPAQ h1910 and I'd make the same comparisons."

I agree 100%. IMO, the iPAQ h1910 hardware is a much better value than anything Palm or Sony offer in that price range or above. I would buy one in a heartbeat if I didn't have to use Windows to develop for it or use Windows to hotsync it.

As for Palm, I think Palm's best offering is the Zire, which does everything that Palm is really good at: no-frills calendaring and TODO-lists. And for most people, I think the Palm Zire is actually the perfect PDA.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
abosco @ 2/18/2003 2:21:14 PM #
"I never fired up the advanced features on the Pocket PC to make comparisons."

Haha, oh that's rich. Here's a few snipets from your article:

"Tap the word "meeting" and the PPC enters "ting" followed by a space, quickly readying you for your next word. All of this is easily and intuitively customizable in the keyboard options, available in Options above the list of keyboards available when you switch from QWERTY to Character Recognizer and in the Input icon in system settings. Graffiti, in contrast, requires you to input all 7 characters and the space manually. Note that the Graffiti emulator on the Pocket PC still takes advantage of Word Completion."

Here's an example that shows you didn't even give a try at Palm OS. There's an application called WORDCOMPLETE and guess what it does? Exactly what you just said. You can customize it to your liking. It's freeware and takes up <125k.

"I tested this on both an NX70 and Treo with the built in thumb boards. To enter contacts with the keyboard on the NX70, you must tap the screen to move between fields. The TAB key is non-functional for moving around fields on the Palm."

You're completely right. Tab doesn't do it on an NX. You have to hit CTRL and TAB. Tab inserts a tab. Simple enough.

"Custom Field 1 in Joe Smith's contact may be his URL and in Sarah Black's contact may be her assistant's name."

Here you are talking about the address book, but neglect to mention that you can change the name of the fields. Gee, where could it be... Menu -> Options -> Rename custom fields. Boy, that was tough.

"Now, let's enter a more complex appointment. Three hours, with an alarm. On the Palm, enter the appointment name on the first hour. Now, select Details then tap on the Time box. You can now modify the start and end times, change it to All Day, set the alarms, etc. So for that three hour appointment, it would be Details|Time|End Time|Pick the End Time, check the Alarm box and press OK. On the Pocket PC, you tap and drag over a three hour range, press New and enter the subject. The three hour time will be pre-filled in for you. Hmmm... not so complex anymore, but instead, consistent. Not two different methods."

Okay this is boring me because there's so many things and I'm not even halfway down the article, but if you want to talk about doing a workaround on the PPC like draging the stylus from one time box to another, also talk about the workaround on the Palm. Just start writing the time of the appointment's start. If it starts at 6:35, write 635 and tap OK since the time dialogue box automatically pops up to make a 1 hour appointment. For an end time, tap that time box and write 935 for a three hour appointment. There's workarounds for boths and it's extremely unfair to compare the more advanced features of one OS to another's basic features.

I've already shown you a while ago about the internet and IM thing Palm OS 5 is capable of, so let's just skip that one. I'd hate having to retype all of that.

"On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is easy (like turning your device on) and 10 is hard (like messing with Connection Manager) many Palm features are in the 1-3 range and max out there. The Pocket PC has some in the 1 range, but more in the 2-4 range. Of course configuring a VPN connection to allow your Terminal Services connection to work via GPRS is closer to a 9, but the power that has is simply not replicable on a Palm."

If you want a VPN client, there's two applications that you can use that do so.

http://www.win-hand.com
http://www.mergic.com

Hey? What do you know, Palm OS can also do some 9-range things. Funny how you failed to mention this, huh?

"The bottom line is today, in December of 2002, there is no Palm device that even comes close to touching the functionality and beautiful rich color screens of the Pocket PCs regardless of what prices they are listed at."

WHAT??? Did you forget about the NX70v released November? Even the NR70v that was released last May??? BS!

Last one: "When you get into more sophisticated operations like emailing documents, creating spreadsheets, playing music, storing data on your storage card, synchronizing files, connecting to your LAN, etc., it is clear which device is easier to use. The Pocket PC has all of that built in. No hacks needed, no additional software necessary. Even small things like having a light sensor integrated into the hardware so you don't have to manually turn the back light on means it is one less thing you have to do. Isn't that simple?"

While you say it's built-in to the OS, you forget to mention that many users don't like Pocket Excel and Pocket Word because of the formatting issues when you edit it. Everything that you said in that list is capable on the NX70v and is in fact built-into the whole package that you buy. Dataviz Mail or Clie Mail, Spreadsheet to Go, Audio Player, saving things to the storage card is built-in, Hotsyncing syncs and backups all data onto the computer, Preferences handles logging into the network over an LAN with the NX wifi card, etc, respectively.

This is what I mean by writing up a more fair article. If you're going to address the Palm as being simple for less daunting tasks but incapable of daunting tasks, you BETTER bring up some evidence to back it up. Next time, compare a 3955 to an NX for simplicity and advanced features and see what the outcome is.

Now since this thread is horribly off topic, I'll end it by saying the SJ33 is at a pretty good price point. Compare the SJ33 to an HP1910. They both have some pretty good features and their drawbacks. The HP is thinner, the Sony has a better screen. HP has more multimedia built into the OS but doesn't have a standard headphone jack for you to plug in your $75 headphones, the Palm OS has standard connectors but a bit less multimedia. I'd say these two devices match up accordingly.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
mashoutposse @ 2/19/2003 3:06:04 AM #
Remember, the SJ33 comes with a flip cover, which adds a few tenths of an inch to its thickness.

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
Palm Cow @ 3/9/2003 12:17:37 AM #
Yeah. No case.

Someone said "I think the idea of using Palm OS5 for a 640x480 tablet is pretty silly, actually. The Palm OS GUI wasn't designed for those kinds of screens. And the limitations on memory make that implausible, too. Maybe with Palm OS6, this will make more sense."

In response, when I say "tablet," I mean 320*480 screen, NX60 style, only not sliding or swivelizing. That is, VG. I never said that there wouldn't need to be modifacations to the design: the SJ33's flip cover could use a bit of work and the smudgyness, and the screen/ Graffiti area isn't tall enough, I htink, foir a 320*480 screen. Whatever Sony does, Sony does.

Oh, and I agree with those who say that the TG50 is the compitition Sony's putting out for the Axim to compete with, for now.

----------------
Sulla has Spoken

RE: This is a good but may still not be enough..
duxxyuk @ 3/28/2003 5:32:26 AM #
The SJ33 looks good, perhaps a little heavy but it could definitely lose that horrid plastic flap.

I much prefer the fabric flap the SJ30 has as it can be conveniently folded behind the body whilst I use it on the morning train to work.


Nice new Palm.

Tuckermaclain @ 2/17/2003 8:55:52 AM #
I like it. I lost the use of many programs (and my hacks) in order to upgrade to OS5. This is a nice unit that should be pretty quick @ 66MHz. If I didn't have such an uncontrolable urge to buy the latest palm the instant it is released, I would be happy with this. Who wouldn't like their hacks back? This is a keeper (at least for now.)
RE: Nice new Palm.
Admin @ 2/17/2003 12:30:16 PM #
It is a speedy unit. benchmark 2.0 rates it at 296%.

Acid Image runs almost as fast as it does on os 5 devices.

RE: Nice new Palm.
hkklife @ 2/17/2003 9:06:57 PM #
If this thing had been out at this price point in the October/November time frame, I'd probably have gone for it over the T|T. I didn't have a need for all the T|T has to offer, but I definitely wanted a bit more oomph and ram than my old m505 had. A powerful OS4.1 Dragonball unit like this would have been about perfect...and I could have continued to use all of my old legacy apps and utilities like FastCPU to underclock that 66mhz CPU down to a minimal level when the speed's not necessary.

While the SJ33 is still a nice unit for today spec-wise, it's still about $50 too expensive and the feature set and formfactor are not ground-breaking by any means. Hopefully Sony will drop the price of it fairly soon. Still, kudos to Sony to see them listening to user complaints about substandard flip covers, buttons that are useless for gaming and even borrowing a trick from Palm to use a larger reset button hole.

Is the mp3 player app now high-res?

wwiiolds @ 2/17/2003 10:53:08 AM #
The screen looks like it, but Im not entirely sure. Is this the same player found on the T series?

Good overview of the device. Maybe once this thing comes down in price I may be willing to ditch my m515 for it.

"Lost are only those who abandom themselves."

- Oberst Hans-Ulrich Rudel

RE: Is the mp3 player app now high-res?
eywleung @ 2/17/2003 1:24:59 PM #
The audioplayer is the same as my T665 (Audioplayer version 2.1.1) So the buttons are low res.

RE: Is the mp3 player app now high-res?
cypher76 @ 2/17/2003 6:31:27 PM #
RTA - Read the article - the version is 2.2.1, not 2.1.1. Its a skinnable version of the audioplayer, different from the T665 version, and could be in hi-res (www.sonystyle.com.hk/clie/sj33/popup/enter1_main.html) but its not specified.
RE: Is the mp3 player app now high-res?
NX70VUSER @ 5/20/2003 7:17:24 PM #
The MP3 player is the same on the SJ33 as the T665C, version 2.2.1. Go into the software and bring down the menu to "About Audio Player" I checked, and it it also skinable. The software CD comes with some skins, although they are pretty crappy. The original skin that was on the clie is much better. Now that I have NX70V, the audio player doesn't have the visual effects. that's to bad, because they were pretty cool, almost hypnotic :)

James

RE: Is the mp3 player app now high-res?
NX70VUSER @ 5/20/2003 7:17:24 PM #
The MP3 player is the same on the SJ33 as the T665C, version 2.2.1. Go into the software and bring down the menu to "About Audio Player" I checked, and it it also skinable. The software CD comes with some skins, although they are pretty crappy. The original skin that was on the clie is much better. Now that I have NX70V, the audio player doesn't have the visual effects. that's to bad, because they were pretty cool, almost hypnotic :)

James

SJ30

UZI4U182 @ 2/17/2003 11:14:24 AM #
How does the thickness of the SJ33 compare to the SJ30?

--Devan-- | Email me:
UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.devanstavern.tk
www.devandeshong.tk
Current PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-SJ30
RE: SJ30
mjd1969 @ 2/17/2003 11:35:16 AM #
The SJ30 is .69" deep and the SJ33 is .86".

This depth and weight is my biggest hangup on this unit. I currently have a Visor Edge which I love for it's size. It's incredibly easy to throw into a pocket and go. I'm desperate for color though. I'm going to have to check a SJ33 out at the store. It sounds a little too heavy and thick to make me comforable preordering. I know I could get a T665 with the same capability, but I HATE the T series buttons. I also want a flip cover like the SJ33 and my Edge have. By the time you add a case to The T665, it's as thick as the SJ33 if not more.

I wish Sony would give us some insight into the SJ22. I don't need MP3 capabilities. If the SJ22 was thinner and lighter, I would wait for it to come out.

Mike

TG50 comparison
hotpaw4 @ 2/17/2003 1:45:45 PM #
There are new pictures of the TG50 on ClieSource and Brighthand. From the side view, it looks like the TG50 might be only about 0.55 inches thick including its flip cover.
RE: SJ30
Jonathan_2k1 @ 2/17/2003 5:26:38 PM #
Are you terribly disillusioned or what, Mike? If you think 6.1 ounces is heavy, then I wonder what will happen if someone hold a gun to your head and forces you to use a 10-ounce NZ90. I have a 6-ounce IIIe and it is light. With people like you in the world, pretty soon handhelds will have straps on the back to prevent them form floating out of your hand due to their weightlessness.

-Jonathan

________________________________________
I've been working with computers for 1/4 of my life. Beat that.

RE: SJ30
mjd1969 @ 2/18/2003 9:53:06 AM #
I'm not disillusioned, just stating my opinion. 6.1 ounces isn't heavy, but it's all a matter of what you're comparing it to. I was talking about the possibility of moving to a SJ33 from a unit that is half as thin and 1/3 lighter. Is that going to stop me from buying one? Probably not. I don't know until I try it out. The original poster asked for the thickness and I gave it. I also threw in my opinion. If you don't agree, so be it.

BTW, there are loads of people out there who love their NR/NX/NZ series clies. Size and weight in a PDA are important to me. I would never own an NR/NX/NZ series simply because it's too big for what I want. My opinion. That's all. I hope you and your 6 oz IIIe continue to be happy together.

RE: SJ30
Palm_Otaku @ 2/18/2003 6:03:08 PM #
Personally, I applaud Sony for choosing to boost the battery capacity at the expense of additional depth and weight. I think that many users will find that the longer life is a more than acceptable compromise.

But each to their own. :)

- Dan

Interesting screen comparison...

stupidnewpolicy @ 2/17/2003 12:09:21 PM #
I find it very interesting that the comparison screens show the Sony icons in full "high-res" mode, but the Tungsten icons in large, "low-res" mode giving the illusion that the Tungsten is not capable of the same screen resolution as the Clies.

It almost makes it look like the Tungsten is not quite as "evolved" as the Clies, even though it runs OS5 and the Clies run OS4. Very subtle marketing fluff.



Ick

RE: Interesting screen comparison...
Palm_Otaku @ 2/17/2003 12:18:59 PM #
Very subtle marketing fluff.

** conspiracy alert!! **

I expect that if the T|T Launcher had the option of displaying "Icon (small)" it would have been shown that way.

Relax :)

- Dan

RE: Interesting screen comparison...
Admin @ 2/17/2003 12:24:41 PM #
all of the hig res clie models have an additional feature in the default launcher to show the "small" icon. This lets you display 7 x 5 grid of icons.

The tungsten and other OS5 models now display higher resolution icons, and the os 5 clies stillhave the option to display the small grid. Many of the third party launchers will allow you to display more icons on the screen like the sony models.

RE: Interesting screen comparison...
abosco @ 2/17/2003 1:12:48 PM #
The Earth is flat.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
RE: Interesting screen comparison...
stupidnewpolicy @ 2/17/2003 7:08:11 PM #
Pardon my gaff. I incorrectly assumed that the small icon view was available to Tungsten as well. I'm nowhere near ready to upgrade.

******************************************************
Note to Palm:

Will you people get your cranial matter out of your rectal area? Why didn't you include this? What a boneheaded decision. First no VG, and now no small mode taking advantage of the higher resolution? Give your customers some choice why don't ya?
******************************************************

Rant over - my apologies.


Ick

RE: Interesting screen comparison...
alexp @ 2/18/2003 8:49:45 AM #
I believe PalmOS has always had (or at least for a long time) the "List" view in the native launcher. This allows displaying more apps on-screen than the traditional display. Not sure if it displays more than Sony's "small icon" mode, but it is at least comparable. On the Tungsten, I've noticed the icons themselves in this view take advantage of hi-res; they don't on my T665C.

At any rate, I suspect that Palm would respond to your rant by suggesting you pull your own head out of...wherever...and use the List view if you want more choices on-screen at once.

RE: Interesting screen comparison...
Palm_Otaku @ 2/18/2003 4:27:22 PM #
For the standard launcher views:
Icon: 3x4 = 12 apps
List: 2x11 = 22 apps
Icon (s) = 4x7 = 28 apps
List (s) = 3x18 = 54 apps

And then there's the 320x480 screens on the NR/NX/NZ...

Yeah, it would be cool if the Palm 320x320 units included the (small) option.

- D

I like the buttons

Cheetah @ 2/17/2003 12:17:44 PM #
I think all PDAs should have recessed buttons like this. Why did it take so long for PDA mfgs to figure this out?

I like the design, except for the flip cover. I would like the flip cover removable, so you have the option whether to use it or not.

I do like the larger battery.

RE: I like the buttons
yipchunyu @ 2/17/2003 12:20:45 PM #
i got mine last week. I just read the review from this site and brighthand. One thing that suprised me is that both site claims the flip cover can't be removed.
However, based on the information from the manual, it stated that it can be removed and it's needed when using some accessories.
Don't know why but it's interesting...

RE: I like the buttons
Admin @ 2/17/2003 12:28:23 PM #
It's looks like you can remove it but not without causing some damage to the hinge. It's on there very tight. I can't see any reason why an accessory would need it to be removed.
RE: I like the buttons
kezza @ 2/17/2003 12:35:27 PM #
I'd bet removing it would be good for using the MS Camera, especially if you wanted it facing the same way as the screen.

--------------------------------------
"Well, if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lessons"
http://stirwise.com
RE: I like the buttons
JKingGrim @ 2/18/2003 11:30:48 AM #
>>I think all PDAs should have recessed buttons like this. Why did it take so long for PDA mfgs to figure this out?<<

I believe you are mistaken into thinking this is a 5 way d pad. These are actually up/down buttons. The best button setup is in the T|t.

RE: I like the buttons
kidA @ 2/18/2003 2:10:29 PM #
no. he said nothing about any d-pad or up down buttons. he said he like the recessed buttons. ie they don't stick out of the surface of the device like most do which leads to inadvertent button presses when the device is in your pocket and therefore wastes the battery.

RE: I like the buttons
sleepy_head @ 2/18/2003 7:51:39 PM #
If the Asian versions are the same as the US version, the cover is removable. The Hong Kong site has covers for sale. Why make it unremovable if you can sell more covers?

http://www.sonystyle.com.hk/clie/app/access/index_case-cover.jsp

The Asian version is SJ33/H, the US version is just SJ33. Are there any differences?

sleepy

RE: I like the buttons
wrong20 @ 2/18/2003 11:46:02 PM #
Where did you get the specs that state the battery is 800mA? I can't find the battery specs for the t665, how does it compare?

How fast is MS access?

madmaxmedia @ 2/17/2003 12:34:24 PM #
Is it closer to the T665C? I hope so, for transferring those MP3 files-

RE: How fast is MS access?
timewaster77 @ 2/17/2003 12:53:04 PM #
Talking about MS access Sony promised at CES that all new Clies would be MS Pro compatible, it looks like they already broke their promise. Bad Sony, bad Sony!!!

Happy Sony Clie User

Any news about the COLORS?

PalmDoc @ 2/17/2003 12:35:15 PM #
When first announced, the SJ33 was shown in at least 2 different color schemes, the black one shown in this article, and a flame-orange color scheme. I made the mistake of showing a picture of the orange one to my wife, and now she keeps asking me when I plan to buy it for her!

Has anyone seen the orange colored model on a shelf or in an inventory system somewhere in the U.S. yet?

Thanks

RE: Any news about the COLORS?
Token User @ 2/17/2003 1:02:20 PM #
Played with the other colours at the Sony Store in Ginza a couple of weeks ago. The blue model is beautiful. It is a deep, dark blue translucent plastic - you can see through it just enough to make out the components inside. The rounded edges give the unit an almost organic feel to it. VERY nice.

The orange one was OK too, but a little trendy and loud for business use (but I guess that depends on the business you are in).

Regardless of model, the flip lid was fairly unobtrusive, and "balanced" well on you hand.



~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: Any news about the COLORS?
ozz @ 2/18/2003 12:12:27 AM #
"The rounded edges give the unit an almost organic feel to it."

Aarggh!! What does "organic feel" mean? And what do rounded edges have to do with being organic? I think I'm missing something in your tactile description. :-)

DSP?

abosco @ 2/17/2003 1:13:10 PM #
Does this come with a separate DSP like other MP3 playing Clies? The review states it has background play, but I just want to be sure since there was no mention of one.

Good first impressions.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

RE: DSP?
distrachi @ 2/17/2003 5:42:18 PM #
AFAIK the 66mhz Dragonball processor is not fast enough to playback mp3 files. I remember trying to play mp3s on an old AMD 486/66mhz and I had to set the text based mp3 player to mono for it to play smoothly.
RE: DSP?
Fernando @ 2/17/2003 6:18:38 PM #
yeah but that's probably because you were running other applications on top of it, windows?.... palm os doesn't take very much cpu power, so therefore it is possible for the processor to playback mp3's alone. I remember one of my old portable mp3 players was only 16mhz, but it played back music fine withotu skipping or any inturruptions. Off course it didn't do much else, but that's besides the point. 66 mhz should be more than enough for the cpu to play mp3's.
RE: DSP?
hotpaw4 @ 2/17/2003 6:48:59 PM #
My bet is on a built-in DSP. A 66 MHz Dragonball 68k is much slower than a 66 MHz 486 in terms of performance.
RE: DSP?
kidA @ 2/18/2003 2:13:55 PM #
yes! no dragonball processor-dased device has ever been able to play mp3s on its own. all OS 4 clies that play mp3's do so using a dedicated DSP built into the system in addition to the dragonball processor. the DSP is capable of mp3 playback, while the dargonball is not. speed has absolutely NOTHING to do with it!

So what's the difference

epall @ 2/17/2003 7:49:00 PM #
So what's the difference (if any) between the SJ33 and the T665C?
RE: So what's the difference
Admin @ 2/17/2003 7:57:52 PM #
Formfactor is the main thing and the 665 has a vibtating alarm.
The SJ33 has an improved battery life and flip cover.
RE: So what's the difference
hotpaw4 @ 2/17/2003 8:17:48 PM #
It's a trade-off. The SJ33 has improved battery life and the cost of being much thicker. The T665C is thinner, but a the cost of less battery life.
RE: So what's the difference
wrong20 @ 2/18/2003 5:06:39 PM #
I bought the t665 a week or two ago, and would not have bought it had I known this one was coming out. The t665 has the scroll button in a bizarre place, more than an inch away from the top left corner, forcing you to bend your thumb at a 90 degree angle to use it. The buttons on the t665 are terrible, not stylus friendly, and horrible for gaming. The sj33 puts the scroll button back up in the left hand corner, where it should be, and adds great buttons (as well as having the 66 mhz processor which is the main reason I didn't get the sj30). My main concern is that the fold down cover on the sj33 is going to present a problem for those wanting to use a leather cover. Why use a leather cover when you have this plastic thing? Because I drop my clie, everyone drops their clie, and a thick leather cover gives it some bounce as it hits the linoleum. The place where the grey, transparent cover mounts to the sj33 does not look removable and will present a challenge for flip up leather cover manufacturers (I believe, very well could be proven wrong). (I do not like the leather cases with side zippers because you have to set the clie down to use it...)

IR Hotsync not work in my Sony SJ33??

p167 @ 2/18/2003 2:40:58 AM #
What's wrong with my Sony SJ33??

I just bought it and found the ir hotsync did not work with my notebook asus a1300. I went to Sony Hong Kong technical suppots on the next day I bought it, but they couldn't fixed it and even couldn't found the reason of malfunction.

When every settings have been checked (I'm pretty sure there was nothing poor set, as Sony man was sitting next to me). The notebook IR icon shown it detected the SJ33 initially when I pressed the sync icon on SJ33, the IR icon shown disconnecting immediately. I am using Win98.

Since SJ33 is still new model in Hong Kong, Sony technical supports does not have stock then they couldn't tested another one.

I went to the retailer where I bought the SJ33, they have checked all of their units in stock and found they have the same problem.

I rendered my complain to Sony technical supports, and they are still working on this problem, and my SJ33 was only used for 5 days.

Anyone help!!!

RE: IR Hotsync not work in my Sony SJ33??
p167 @ 2/18/2003 2:43:29 AM #
I have again checked the other method and accidentally found out that if the SJ33 is connecting with the power transformer, then the IR hotsync can be done.

But who will carry along the power transformer with SJ33 on the road?

This was reported to Sony HK technical supports, they are still searching the source of the problem!!


RE: IR Hotsync not work in my Sony SJ33??
Hamurapi @ 2/18/2003 2:30:03 PM #
I'm gonna buy sj33. And all the time i'm searching for bad news about this model. So, could you give an answer:

Have you tried to use IR Hotsync with any other laptops?

What else wrong with it?

Thank you!:)



RE: IR Hotsync not work in my Sony SJ33??
jlang.jl @ 4/18/2003 8:47:30 AM #
I already have the same problem hotsync SJ33 using accu power. I have a Thinkpad T23 as Notebook

best regads

juergen

Blue and Red

sleepy_head @ 2/18/2003 1:31:07 PM #
Does anyone know when the other colors will be released for the US?

And btw, the Hong Kong site lists the 22mm/.87" thickness as "including hard cover."

http://www.sonystyle.com.hk/clie/app/sj33/index.jsp and then go to the specs link

Also, Dell seems to have the sj33 listed for $269 if you go through the higher education faculty/staff/student portal.

I want the blue one dam**t. lol

sleepy

SJ 33

axemail @ 2/19/2003 11:48:41 PM #
I think the SJ33 is a cool gadget but I dislike the thickness and the weight of it. That's just my opinion. Before purchasing the T665, I had considered waiting for the SJ33. Nevertheless the T665 aluminium casing and its slim body appeals more to me.

Overall I think its a nice PDA to own.

RE: SJ 33
NX70VUSER @ 5/20/2003 7:26:38 PM #
PEG-T665C all the way!! even though now i have an NX70V

power button

doppelganger @ 2/22/2003 5:53:44 PM #
ahh, that sliding power button reminds me of the good ol' days of my newton... very newtonesque...

Pocket PC 2002 Stinks

ronningfamily @ 2/25/2003 10:28:13 PM #
I have to disagree with a bunch of you regarding the Pocket PC. I just bought two new Clie's and hated using the Pocket PC. I am a very avid Palm fan, and the ease of use, stability, and quickness of the OS and a 320 X 320 screen blows away the Pocket PC.

I can perform any task quicker than a Pocket PC.

My T665C with Docs to Go Premium, CIC's Jot and Word Complete along with Splash ID, Splash Photo, and Splash Shopper put any Pocket PC to shame.

Matter of fact I had a lot of trouble trying to learn the Pocket PC OS as I thought it was clumsy.

I will take my Palm OS based PDA anyday over the Pocket PC. I want an extension to my PC. Not a PC in my Palm.


Mark Ronning

sj33 anounced in belgium

softwave @ 2/27/2003 9:32:48 AM #
Hi all,

I just received an email from my local Sony reseller, telling me that the SJ-33 will be due here in Belgium around mid-march. Pricing will be approx. 399€

I'm really eager to get one. I was planning on getting an SJ-30 right when Sony decided to stop its production. All the comments I've read so far have only me more and more determined.

Greets

The Other 2 Colors

4s @ 2/27/2003 7:23:46 PM #
Sony is selling replacement flip lids for the SJ-33 at the store at www.sonystyle.com.

I guess those flip lids do come off after all!

Peace,

4s

<><

RE: The Other 2 Colors
hel_is_heaven @ 10/19/2003 2:41:19 PM #
I have a feeling ebay has some more colours. Also the cover does come off but it leaves the big ol hinge behind apparently.

What's with the cover 'hump'?

rg61 @ 3/15/2003 10:58:42 AM #
Nice features. Nice pricepoint.
But the 'hump' to which the cover
attaches is enough to make me
look elsewhere.

I'd much rather the 'back-attached' cover of the
SJ20/30, and better still, the 'spine' attachment
of the Palm V/Vx/M5xx series.

- Richard

RE: What's with the cover 'hump'?
Psychoactivist @ 3/18/2003 11:06:33 PM #
The cover stays out of the way very nicely, and it makes a good sun shade for the screen. I acctauly prefer it over my t615 leather flip cover, which was pretty useless if you droped the thing.

"If cop a feel I must, than cop a feel I shall." - Professor Farnsworth, Futurama

worth it?

hel_is_heaven @ 10/19/2003 2:33:27 PM #
I am starting to wonder more and more about the SJ33 and whether its worth its money. The only expansion slot is for the sony memory sticks which are a l lot more money thn say an SD card. I do want my PDA to last me - but money is limited. Without being able to put an sd card in or replace the battery - I wonder is it??
What would you say?

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