Comments on: Sony Japan Announces the Clie TG50

Agreed TDS, except I would add T|T users as well. I think Sony was looking at the T|T and seeing how people wanted to use the BT connectivity to connect to the internet via BT enabled mobiles. The TG50 offers this functionality with the added feature of integrated keypad which makes it easier for users to send/check sms messages and email. Definitely a good move by Sony IMO...

Not me, I own a treo 90, am the best thing abt it is that I put it in my pants pocket & it's so light (4oz) that I don't even noticed that it's there. Sure, it doesn't have mp3, and BT, but BT is useless unless I have a BT phone. And the only reasonably priced mem stick is 128 & 256MB, which is really not enough to store any music. 512 & 1GB sticks are way too expensive. Treo 90 is the lightest color palm in the world! I wouldn't give it up til someone comes up with something truely better.

- HangoBango
if it's not broken, brake it!

"BT is useless unless I have a BT phone" it's like saying....i have a driving license but it's useless unless i have a car.

The emphasis in Bluetooth is on mobile, re-configurable computerized units that need sporadic contact with each other.
http://www.swedetrack.com/images/bluet00.htm

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

ok. Now why would a T|T user be inching to "upgrade" to this? Because their T|T is too light weight?

Seriously. I might like a thumbboard. But why would I move from SD to MemStick and add an ounce and an inch to my PDA???? Same memory. Basically the same screen. Proprietary Sony launcher?

T|T has everything on this Clie that matters to most people and is substantially smaller and lighter.

You wish Sony fans.

Claire

>>ok. Now why would a T|T user be inching to "upgrade" to this? Because their T|T is too light weight?

>>Seriously. I might like a thumbboard. But why would I move from SD to MemStick and add an ounce and an inch to my PDA???? Same memory. Basically the same screen. Proprietary Sony launcher?

Just as important - to a games freak like me - why would i want to ditch my T|Ts D-Pad?

CleverClaire said, "But why would I move from SD to MemStick and add an ounce and an inch to my PDA????"

Putting the TT in a case adds more than an ounce to the overall weight of the unit while significantly increasing its thickness. The integrated cover of the TG50 would be enough protection for my front pants pocket.

Sure the TT has that snap-on cover but it seems like such a hassle to deal with when out and about. I've always loved the elegant simplicity of integrated flip-covers.

I've been giving my upgrade a LOT of thought and have come very close to buying the TT or the Treo 90. I decided against the TT because of the cover-as-an-afterthought and that slider. Ugh, I don't think I could ever get used to it. The incredibly pocketable Treo 90 is a joy to hold and I don't mind the "old school" 33MHz processor and Palm OS4. It's that awful low-res, low-refresh screen. After using my Sony 610 for over a year, the Treo 90's display is horribly jaggy. Still, I'm a function over form kinda guy so I was taking another long look at a demo Treo 90 and was still tempted to buy one. I think I will wait to see how the TG50 feels in hand before I make my decision.

Keep in mind that all of the above comments are made with *my* usage habits as a point of reference. What may work for you might not be ideal for me.

If only Handspring would update the Treo 90 with a 66MHz processor and a 320x320 screen...I'd be all over that like hair on a gorilla.

"ok. Now why would a T|T user be inching to "upgrade" to this? Because their T|T is too light weight?"

No, because they both have Bluetooth. And many people purchasing a device with BT will want to hook it up to a BT phone and send emails or do instant messaging. And a thumbboard makes those tasks easier. But, certainly there are tons of people who buy TT's without ever wanting to do any (or much) wireless stuff with it, in which case the TT may be more desirable for them.

Scott

I've got both a 615 and a treo 90. Love the screen on the 615, love everything else about the treo. A combination of these two would be great.

The tg50 isn't quite there as a combination of the two. Yes, it has the screen, and it has the KB, and even adds BT. But it's bigger than the treo, heavier, and the battery lasts 1/2 as long. Those 3 things led me to the treo 90, and I can't see myself giving up on any of them.

Compared to a T|T I'd be losing SD cards, and this thing isn't confirmed to use MS Pro. Also, I can buy that add-on keypad if I want heavy-typing, but the TG50 can't buy another graffiti device. Not to mention the T|T has a MUCH better button config and the 5-way pad?
What would you be GAINING by purchasing a whole new handheld? A flipscreen and keyboard? WOOOOOOOO! Sign me up!

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

Both Palm and Sony use the Palm Bluetooth Stack for OS5. Other Palm licensees could/will follow imho. The Palm Bluetooth Stack for OS5 is based on the Embedded Bluetooth Software of Extended Systems called XTNDAccess Blue SDK.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?S316250B3 (supported profiles). Extended Systems has more then 130 Bluetooth Customers worldwide.

Every Bluetooth member (more then 2000 worldwide) can pick the available Bluetooth profiles they want to use with there product(s). Palm chose not to include all the Bluetooth profiles that are available from Extended Systems. So Palm has add limited profiles to there Palm Bluetooth Stack for OS5. Adding that certain profiles of the available total of 13 profiles aren't intersting for certain products. It's argueable. It's something different imho when for instance Microsoft picks only 3 profiles with there Bluetooth Desktop Solution and which ONLY works with Windows XP. They didn't include the PAN profile for instance (MSFT profile update will come this year they said). That this Bluetooth Product of Microsoft doesn't work with other Bluetooth Products isn't a surprise unless it supports the same profiles and works with Windows XP. That certain so-called tech writers like our Walter Mossberg of WSJ haven't done there DD and write st@pido things like "...installed the Microsoft software and was using the keyboard and mouse, tested the Bluetooth transceiver to see if it would recognize another Bluetooth-enabled device -- a Sony T68I cellphone. After following 46 arduous steps -- 46! -- with help from a technician, we still couldn't get our computer to communicate with the phone. In my test, I couldn't get it to work with a Bluetooth-equipped IBM laptop."

Now what a surprise.....This is a Microsoft issue not a Bluetooth issue imho. You could say that every company should include the complete profiles but, like i explained above, certain profiles aren't useable in certain products. You don't need the Headset profile with a keyboard for instance (ok maybe some do ;o)

"....Bluetooth is being optimised for a myriad of different roles. With these 12/13 new profiles, in addition to the 13 existing profiles, Bluetooth's abilities are being solidified from vague goals to practical real-world implementations. As more and more products implementing these profiles are released, the true potential of Bluetooth should be realised, showing to the user the practical uses of Bluetooth-enabled devices, as opposed to industry promises & newspaper predictions of what Bluetooth can do. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a digital camera transmitting a image to a mobile phone, via a Bluetooth link, is worth even more to Bluetooth's future user up-take."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2D5420B3

deadline.

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

By the way.....i e-mailed Mister Mossberg about this but he didn't find the decensy to e-mail me back and to edit his article. Are these so-called tech writers great or what?

Thumbs up....not

:o(

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Sony Ericsson T608 color-screen phone will be available in North America in the second quarter for use with CDMA networks. It will be the first CDMA phone with Bluetooth wireless technology available in the U.S., the company said. It includes a joystick and a navigational joystick.
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030304/0645000587_1.html

mobile.burn.com: The T608 is Sony Ericsson's first phone for Sprint and the first CDMA handset in North America with built in Bluetooth. To be used on Sprint's CDMA 1xRTT network, it can be expected to share the typical Vision features such as GPS, Java Games and Polyphonic Ringtones.
http://mobile.burn.com/news.jsp?Id=187

Sprint will offer Bluetooth Handsfree as accessoiries with there phone.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L357420B3

Sony Ericsson Bluetooth phones include the R520, T39, T68i, P800 and the upcoming T610 (T68i's substitute), T608 and Z1010 dual mode UMTS/GSM-GPRS phone
http://clubsonyericsson.com/en/
http://clubsonyericsson.com/en/products.htm
http://www.sonyericsson.com/t610/
Z1010 dual mode UMTS/GSM-GPRS phone with Bluetooth connections to up to 100 meters
http://mobiledreams.free.fr/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=55

Available/Arriving Mobile Phones with Bluetooth(+ CDMA/Bluetooth issue; scroll)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L225259A3

*The Motorola TimePort 270c is a CDMA phone and has been available in the US but has Bluetooth as additional/optional feature and not built-in.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C587250B3
http://www.4cellular.com/search/phone_Detail.cfm?id=8

Products like this Sony-Ericy CDMA phone with Bluetooth and the new Sony Clie Devices makes Bluetooth Wireless more attractive in the US and Asia imho.

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Sony Ericsson Unveils Accessory for Music Lovers: the Bluetooth Music Hands-free HBM-30: Doubling as a high quality digital audio player and wireless hands-free to any Bluetooth™-enabled phone, the HBM-30 is the latest addition to Sony Ericsson's leading portfolio of mobile phone accessories. The Sony Ericsson HBM-30 is a small-sized music player for MP3 and ATRAC3, utilizing Memory Stick Duo for music storage. Through Bluetooth wireless technology, it can be connected to any Bluetooth-enabled mobile phone and in that way also be used as a handsfree device. When a call comes in, the music will be muted and the user can choose whether to take the call or not. The display will show the name of the caller when not showing the name of the song playing. The HBM-30 can also be used without being connected to a phone. Consumers can easily update their music library by using the music recording function of the HBM-30, or by using a PC. For PCs without Memory Stick drive, there is a wide range of adapters. The HBM-30 comes with high quality stereo headphones from Sony and 64 MB Memory Stick Duo and will start shipping during second half of 2003. Bluetooth products communicate by means of a radio link, eliminating the need for a physical connection via cable. Bluetooth wireless technology has been adapted by the world's leading mobile phone, computer, laptop and PDA manufacturers among others as the ideal cable replacement technology. Sony Ericsson today has the most comprehensive portfolio of Bluetooth phones and accessories. Sony Ericsson Bluetooth phones include the T68i, P800, T610 and T608.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K148660B3

(REMINDER) PalmSource and Sony Ericsson Bluetooth Deal
Posted By: Ryan on Thursday, October 17, 2002 3:25:08 PM
PalmSource, Inc., and Sony Ericsson, today announced their plans surrounding optimization of the Bluetooth interoperability between Sony Ericsson mobile phones and Palm Powered(TM) mobile devices.
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4382

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

wow, thanks for the links pdangel!!

No thanx gfunk (i thought it was P-Funk? ;o) By the way....i met George Clinton once in Den Haag after the North Sea Jazz Festival had ended. Great guy. oooops of topic.

I never give up the "funk". Love those old funk/soul guys like Larry Graham, Zapp, Johnny Guitar Watson, James Carr etc. yeah yeah.....deadline.

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Horses for Courses I suppose - but for me the lack of battery life in Sony products and their unforgiving data-loss if battery runs out really takes the gloss off their otherwise great products.

Also - the screens for the CLIEs have always had a bluish tinge to them, not to mention the irritating narrow font they use as a hangover from the japanese character development base.

I swapped TO the Tungsten T from the T665 and am really pleased with the battery life (considerably better brightness-for-brightness), implementation of simple bluetooth. And for me - grafitti has been an excellent way to enter notes on the fly - I wish T9 had carried on into OS5 - but I have the slim keyboard for longer text tasks and until such time as an OS5, phone/BT/Wi-Fi unit is released...see no need for an on-board keyboard.

As I began - horses for courses...but I love the small Tungsten T.

That page comes up "not found"...

Did you mean:
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-TG50/feat2.html

Instead?

If they did VG as in HandEra and NX70/NZ90 fashion, it would mean a 240x320 (the 80 pixel space at the bottom for the VG), space for the app to display in. Don't know about that. It leaves a non-square area for a non-high res app to fit into.

You could perhaps do something like the reversi game image:
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/PEG-TG50/Images/feat4_15_2.gif

Where the app displays in the square area of the upper left. In this case a 240x240 display. Leaving 80 pixels below for graffity, and 80 pixels on the right, for whatever. Blank space? Or write to it with a proprietary Sony API?

Not unlike the HandEra 330. A 240x240 display (doable also with the OS5 API with 1.5x scaling mode). You can shrink the VG area and get 240x320.

All speculation. Interesting device though. Page-up/Page-down seems to be the only nasty detracter. Sure there's the jog dial. I can send page-up/page-down with the jog dial on my HandEra too (on non-HandEra-ized apps), but the hardware buttons still get their use. Often the jog dial is trapped for special use, leaving you with the hardware buttons again...

They look inverted with the buttons raised and a slit in the middle that is recessed.

Virtual Graffiti and the onscreen keyboard are two totally different things. The screens shown at the foot of Sony Japan's page are for entering text in Japanese, whether in western letters (the lowest image on the left) that are then converted to Japanese characters, or tapping on the kana the way we tap on the onscreen keyboard on most Palm OS devices. Not likely to be something we'll see in a US or EFIGS version of this device.

Lets see how smart sony is in figuring out that the UP and BUTTON SUCKS! and NO the jogdial will never replace up/down buttons.

Ive been waiting for this model but im not so happy of seeing the same up/down button on my 665c

It's just that the resource requirements for Palm OS 5 is still smaller than that of a PocketPC and the Palm OS 5 is just more energey efficient.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

>>Now that Palms are running ARM, StrongArm in fact

Its not StrongARM - it's XScale.

clunky, eh? have you seen the ipaq 1910? it's one of the smallest PDAs on the market, PalmOS or PocketPC.

200mHz PXA 250 to be precise. Nobody else is using 250 in new product anymore. Casio E3000 and Tosh E750 have gone 255.

>"clunky, eh? have you seen the ipaq 1910? it's one of the smallest PDAs on the market, PalmOS or PocketPC."<

Uh...yeah. And it's also one of the slowest and worst performing. Your arguement is invalid.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

Clue up before start blabering.

http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?
cat=machinesppc&id=242&p=3

Wow, a French review. Is not being able to read it proof that it's actually fast? Maybe you're the one who needs to "clue up" before you start trolling.

Oh, and the HP1910 is unbearably slow. I thought I was using my m105 when I was playing with it.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3

really? is it as slow as wordsmith spell checker? I have to admit h1910 is not as fast as flyinng saucers tho'

I have played around with it at a store. Even running PocketPC software, I found it to be very responsive--better than my, admittedly, aging Palm. And the things have been selling like hotcakes. Running Linux or PalmOS, the h1910 should fly.

Bluetooth-enabled iPAQ H1915 (updated 1910) Coming!?
http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2951.html

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

I own the iPaq 1910 and it is neither clunky or slow. It also overclocks easily with little effect on the decent (for any color device) battery life.

However that said, I would have purchased this instead had it been available 3 months ago. It is a little homely compared to the 1910 but looks very useable, and with the backlit keyboard would have been exactly what I was looking for.

actually they do have VG they stuck it in with the keyboard...its a really small samll screen if you do that.....though

----------------------------------------
Join my forums and read my reviews at,
www.pants-onfire.2ya.com
Current reviews,
TT,Zire,NX60/NX70v

One day someone will listen to us and release a thin mid-range PDA with OS5 and virtual grafitti.

Garmin was close, in my opinion. I don't have a need for the GPS (but it would be fun).

_____
Fammy

The TG50 *has* virtual graffiti capability on its square display.

If you mean a hires+ (320x480) display, then where in a slim unit are you going to put the battery to power that many pixels? Battery life (power on time) is usually more related to the number of pixels on the display than to the CPU MHz.

1) As I posted above, I don't think we'll see that input screen on a US/EFIGS version, if/when Sony releases one. That looks like Japanese only. For English, it'd be like a

2) I don't know if I'd call that "Virtual Graffiti" in the same sense that the

1) As I posted above, I don't think we'll see that input screen on a US/EFIGS version, if/when Sony releases one. That looks like Japanese only. For English, it'd be like a Graffiti area on a Treo or Tungsten W.

2) I don't know if I'd call that "Virtual Graffiti" in the same sense that the HandEra/Sony clamshell/Garmin units use, where instead of a "static" Graffiti area you have one that can disappear. That's what I've always understood VG to be--something you can turn off to expand the screen, not something that you bring up like the onscreen keyboard.

yup, I believe they are backlit. Checkout this pic:

http://www.zdnet.co.jp/mobile/0303/04/l_tg501.jpg

ok, i want one!

the 2 perfect pdas finally exist: the tungsten t and the tg50

the only thing missing for a perfect line-up is a tg50 with a 320x480 screen and no thumb keyboard

my only worry for the tg50 is the battery life - i'm using a T600C right now and its battery life sucks

t.

OK, I love this thing. I'm glad they got the backlit keyboard right. Two flaws though:

1) Why aren't they using the tranlucent screen like their SJ33? That would be great to have. I wonder if the cover is replaceable?
2) The app buttons look awful and it would have been better if they integrated it more like the Treo (below the screen cover). Of course, without a see-through cover, it's probably unimportant.

My other problem with it has nothing to do with the device itself. The only option for Bluetooth in the US seems to be the T68i with AT&T or T-Mobile. Coverage isn't very good for me for either of these and neither offer an affordable (if at all) unlimited data plan. When is Sprint's BT phone coming out?

Scott

Actually, I just took a closer look at the app buttons. And they actually look decent. They definitely seem different than the T665's. I still think it would be better to position them below the thumbboard, though. Not only for the reason I gave above but also because it would allow you to hold the device and thumb-type more comfortably, IMO. I think one of the nice things about the NR/NX/NZ-series is that the extra "dead" space below the thumbboard allows the base of your thumbs to rest on it. Adding a bit more space below the thumbboard on this would help a bit but still wouldn't be great though, as my Treo 300 has more space and it's still pretty uncomfortable to type on.

I think my ideal device would probably be an NZ90 without the CF slot and in a shorter/thinner package. But the TG50 may be the next device for me. Good thing I didn't lock into that Sprint contract. ;)

Scott

Whoops...Spoke a bit too soon. The application buttons look better, but the up/down toggle is still horrible.

Scott

they announced if you use 30 miniutes a day without bucklit, it is available about 11 days.

> "1) Why aren't they using the tranlucent screen like their SJ33?"

You mean "Transflective" display? It is.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

The backlit buttons are a great idea, however, after checking out the nz90, I'd rather they kept the keyboard that is on the NR and NX series, or at least that style of keys. But maybe that's just because I didn't learn on that type of keyboard.

> "1) Why aren't they using the tranlucent screen like their SJ33?"

"You mean "Transflective" display? It is."

No, I mean the translucent screen cover (sorry, I left that last word out). Personally, though, I'd rather it be transparent, as opposed to translucent. I use my Treo 300 quite a bit to check appointments, etc. without ever bothering to flip it open. But translucent would have been better than opaque.

Scott

Actually I think you meant transparent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transparent), not translucent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=translucent)

"Actually I think you meant transparent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transparent), not translucent (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=translucent)"

Nope. I meant what I said. The SJ33 has a translucent, not transparent cover. It's color-tinted and fairly dark, so it's not as good as a clear transparent cover (which, as I said, I'd prefer), though I imagine Sony thinks their colored covers look "cooler." Usability has never been a top priority there, it seems. Still, even a translucent colored cover would be better than the solid metal cover that it has.

Scott

"they announced if you use 30 miniutes a day without bucklit, it is available about 11 days."

Does anybody out there use their color pda with the backlight off all the time? Just curious as to the possible scenairo.

I always use the backlit on my color screen. i use it with backlit 99% of the time.

i wonder if keyboard backlit can be turned off and keep screen light on..

Sprint's BT phone is coming out in mid-May.

University of Miami
2001 National Champions
34-0 and counting! Fiesta Bowl here we come!!!

i can use my 615 for 4+ hours nearly constant taking pages of notes in a meeting (maxed out notepad a few times), searching for data, reading, ... with the backlight on but brightness at its lowest. works great but then I run to my sync base & charge it again.

I'm pretty sure it is against Sprint's Terms of Service to use their unlimited 3G data plan with any kind of external device; you're supposed to buy a plan that comes with a set amount of data. However, many people get the unlimited plan and use it with their laptop and stuff anyway. You could also do it the old fashioned way by dialing up, but its slow (9.6 kbits/s for my GSM T68) and it uses up your plan's time.

but a magnesium alloy casing can provide you much more protection....and in my opinion...loooks cooler....

a plastic cover could possibly crack after pro-longed use.....and.....the fingerprints on it is really ugly....

and most important....if you want the device to be thin enough, you can only go for metallic casing.....

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

I believe this Clie and the Palm Tungsten T will suit different users. The Tungsten T is still shorter than this Clie and not all Palm users prefer a built-in keyboard to a hard graffiti area.

Personally, I just prefer the SDIO to the Memory Stick format.

In any case, I am sure this device will certainly boost up the popularity of the Palm OS 5 to consumers!

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

Despite its heap of bugs/aggrivations, I think for my personal daily use, I'd pick the T|T over any of the Sony OS5 units, since I don't need (or want) a keyboard or camera in my device.

Also, I loathe the MS format (pro or otherwise) but I still must commend Sony for getting certin little details right, such as the backlight keyboard! Wow! I just wish Palm would learn a lesson from that and from the only good feature of the m505, the backlit Grafitti area.

Ideally, a (realistically) refreshed T|T would squash all of the bugs of the T|T, offer a backlit Grafitti area, and bump up the ram and cpu as much as possible without handicapping the battery life. Until then, I think this new Sony is gonna steal a *lot* of sales from Palm's T|T as well as be a nice upgrade for some Treo 90 users as well.

I agree with above posts. This is a nice unit - but i don't really see it as an improvement over T|T - unless the keyboard is more important to you than size, weight, lack of SD, and lack of D-PAD (can't believe they messed up with that absurd rocker-switch yet again!! - its little things like that that are important to daily use...). Sony has had it right in the multimedia department for awhile (ie: MP3) - but that is a matter of software. I've got 3rd party MP3 players and expect RealPlayer to come out (someday soon???!!) - so this isn't a biggy issue.

-Faster processor
-Better screen (if the NX and SJ33 are any indication)
-NetFront internet browser
-Native support for MS Office (Word, Excel, PPT), PDF, and HTML email attachments
-Jog Dial
-MPEG player
-Mactromedia Flash
-Brushed aluminum flip cover
-Lit keyboard (for emails and such)
-Remote camera feature (can control Sony's new BT-equipped cameras remotely -- this one is amazing)
-MUCH better looking

That equals a TG purchase for me.

The Remote camera feature is really amazing, but very likely won't be on the US version. The NZ also has this but it's diabled on the US spec because the BT cybershots are only available in Japan.

I guess the price in US will be around 400$. You can place a pre-order now for 382$ at Tech Depot (http://www.techdepot.com/product.asp?productid=1556571)

Itai

Can't wait for the TG50 to come out -- will definitely be getting one! Price checks are available here:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=699666/ut=c0c1c40274a76764

Two stores are already listing it for sale; lowest unit price this far is $375.95 at Computers4Sure.com.

"Two stores are already listing it for sale; lowest unit price this far is $375.95 at Computers4Sure.com."

Goodie. It looks like it's coming to the US pretty soon after all.

Scott

Atually, 40,000Yen is a bit more than $340.00 US It looks like we pay a little premium. Most likely to cover import taxes and teriffs.
Still the price falls right in line. The T665c was $399.00 US when it came out.

Time flies like an arrow...
Fruit Flies like a banana.

> But one think for sure, Sony will beat Palm this year.

Possibly in your mind, but not on this planet. Palm outsells Sony something like 5 to 1 and I doubt that will change drastically. I'd buy a Tungsten T over this without thinking twice about it. The only advantage it appears to have is that it might have a user-replaceable battery.

you don't need them

i always use the jogdial instead

t.

Both are important. I have a Treo 300 and use the jog wheel to scroll item by item and the up/down buttons to go page by page.

Scott

The rocker switch/button on this is unacceptable. I love Sony units - but it is little things like this that mean the difference in terms of usability. I mean - action games are completly out of the question with this unit. If thats not a big deal for you and you prefer the keyboard - then this is probably a great unit.

If you at the keyboard there are a set of directional button there.

KAY

>>If you at the keyboard there are a set of directional button there.

I didn't see those - nice. Still - in the pitch of battle with an alien race thats hell-bent on conquering earth - i don't think i would the future of the human race to those little things :)

up(pg up)/down(pg dn)/left/right buttons

http://www.palmoslove.com/work/feature/tg50/tg50-10b.jpg

KAY

"thraal @ 3/4/2003 8:13:46 AM
you don't need them

i always use the jogdial instead

t."

thraal, i do need decent up/down buttons. I have t665c and i never use the jogdial.

Of course memstick pro is better that memstick, but it still is no where near better that SD.

There are two buttons on side of the hardware buttons, I believe that they are the home/menu and cal/find buttons that suppose to be on the silk graffti screen.

They looked very cool, and I really liked the shiny aluminum casing. Looks very sleek and professional.

KAY

OK, that HAS to be the most beautiful PDA ever. I'm getting one to go with my clamshell CLIE.

T|T is selling at numerous places for under $350. The lowest i've seen is $308. Plus - Palm has a new offer of a free Veo SD slot camera (worth $99 - it's a mail-in offer i believe). That makes the T|T a MUCH better deal than when they offered it for $499 4 months ago.

wow, sounds great. then T|T is a better choice for those who like a smaller PDA with camrea
where did you see scuh a good deal?

>>wow, sounds great. then T|T is a better choice for those who like a smaller PDA with camrea
where did you see scuh a good deal?

Just search google usinmg keywords 'tungsten t' and 'price' - you'll find numerous online retailors with prices in the $308 to $349 range. The camera deal is mentioned in the previous PIC news item and is also on Palms site.

I agree with you but there seem to be so many people who don't like graffiti. I personally love it. I tried the keyboard on nx70 & ... its not useful. Give me graffiti any day.
Now if the graffiti 2 still works good maybe this is a good combo of the 2 options.
As far as the 480 screen ... I want one really bad & all I can think of is ... Garmin is the only one who has shown they will do it I haven't checked to see what happens to all the programs I like to run on a nx70 but I am assuming either many don't take advantage of the full screen or just plain don't work ...
I asked dataviz if they would flip their screen to take advantage of it & they suggested I submit it as a suggestion. I was disappointed to see that even though the 480 screen has been out for a while ... no one is really taking advantage of it.
So where I also really want a 480 screen ... I wonder if I would really benefit from it.

I like this device and I happen to love Graffiti. However, a thumbboard is better, IMO, when you're dealing with longer notes. Since this is a BT device it would be a natural for wireless email where a thumbboard would be nice to have.

Scott

Someone on Brighthand listed the cubic inches of a few pdas (I hope it is kosher to copy):

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?threadid=74103

"It's the size of extended Tungsten, almost the size of 39xx.

iPAQ h1910 = 6.71 cubic (4.46"x 2.75"x 0.50") 4.23 oz.
iPAQ 3955 = 10.49 cubic (5.3" x 3.3" x 0.6") 6.5 oz.
Tungsten = 7.20/8.64cubic (4.0/4.8"x3.0"x0.6") 5.6 oz.
TG50 = 8.8 cubic (2.8" x 4.96"x .64) 6.4 oz."

Then someone else pointed out that if you put a case on the TT or the h1910 they actually are about the same size as the TG50:

"You are comparing a device with a flipcover with devices without them, which means they need cases of some kind. Therefore, a fairer comparison would be the TG50 without its flipcover on.

That's 5.0 x 2.8 x .5 = 7 cubic inches, or between the h1910 and the T|T while open."

-------

I am thinking about a Tungsten T and this TG50. The differences I can see are:

Size - As you mention - if you put a tungsten in a case this is actually smaller (depending on the case).

Input - It has a keyboard - which I prefer. And some kind of virtual grafiti - even though it makes the screen smaller.

Memory Card - But Sony is usually behind secure digital on the memory sticks - until now??? Maybe they have a wi-fi stick coming around the same time as the SD WI-FI?

Speed - negligable probably.

Battery length - probably about the same? I don't know.

Looks - the TT looks better, but this looks pretty good too.

Screen quality - toss up? Slight edge to Sony?

Screen size - ????????

Any other comparisons????

someone tell me how to add a picture, then I will really scare you all!

More display pixels requires more power (to refresh and backlight), and cost more. So there would have been lots of complaints about 30% less battery life. And also less buyers because of the increased price.

David,

Dude, you are dreaming. Since when has Palm done anything innovative in the past 5 years. Increasing the RAM? If Handspring didn't push the envelope with their 8mb Visor Deluxe, Palm will still have only 2mb RAM.

Yeah, Palm will increase the RAM as soon as someone else do it, then they will just follow the leader like they have with everything else.

KAY

And oh by-the-way, everything that you wanted in your list has been done by somebody else.

KAY

Garmin iQue 3600 is coming soon, with 32 Mb RAM, 320x480, Virtual Grafitti.

yes, the Garmin iQue 3600 does have 320x480 screen, but is it Sony highres+ format? if it's not then full screen mode would not be supported unless software companies uses Garmin's API.

KAY

Re the wishlist--yes, each of those innovations has been done, but no one's combined all (or close) in one device.

fat_man:
there have actually some sources saying that garmin is using the Sony Hi-res+ API for their devices so that their devices will be instantly compatible with most of the major apps.

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

Really? Now that will be one cool handheld, if Garmin does use highres+. I'm surprise howeveer, that sony would let them do that, base on their past history.

KAY

Actually, the NZ90 offers everything listed above, except for the 32MB RAM ;)

The Garmin is the size of the silver clamshell CLIEs (and thicker, actually!); I don't think that's the solution most people had in mind.

No Virtual Graffiti on this one so I will have to pass it up. I think the idea of virtual graffit + keyboard would be a great combo but that may be asking too much for a small device. I will probably hold out for a garmin cause that still looks better than this at this point and if you really want bluetooth garmin is making a unit with bluetooth built in.

-------------------------------------------------------
currently using Palm m125 and waiting for Garmin iQue.

it should be out everywhere else not too long after the japan release.

i dunno...it may take a month or two....

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