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    Comments on: Rumor: More Info on the Zire 71
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The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  RE: Buttons / NavigatorJonAcheson @ 3/26/2003 11:34:56 AM #
I thought that was a clip-on screen cover that was sitting on the back of the device, rather than a slide-out camera. Why make the camera slide out? Just put an automatic cover on it. Jon Acheson
OH NO!!!!!mikemusick @ 3/26/2003 12:15:20 PM #
Those single-button "5-way" joysticks are HORRIBLE!!! I have a couple of other gadgets which use them and it is absolutely impossible to access the "push" function without inadvertently hitting an up/down/left/right. If they weren't multi-hundred-dollar devices they would have been "impact tested" a long, long time ago. WHAT IN THE HECK WERE YOU THINKING, PALM???!?!! RE: Buttons / Navigator
I'd reserve judgement on the usability of a joystick navigator. Palm has always been good at designing devices with good physical usability. RE: Not-So-Sliding Camerasundance_7 @ 3/26/2003 1:25:31 PM #
I think perhaps the learned poster above may have misinterpreted the image, and that perhaps the shot displays a reverse angle of the Zire 71 partially exposed in a cradle. Maybe, maybe not... RE: Buttons / Navigator
For the record, the "5 way navigator" on the T|T is actually a 4-way D-pad (similar to a video game control) with a button in the center. You don't press down on the whole control - just the center. ---- What do you think, sirs? RE: Buttons / Navigator
I actually think this kind of navigator would work better for action games. The T|T and T|W navigation pads work great for selecting a single direction, but moving from one direction to another is a little awkward, especially with the button in the center. A joystick that can be pushed in (similar to the analog sticks on the PlayStation 2 controller), would work really well, especially if it had a looser feel, while still being a pretty good choice (but not as good as the current 5-way nav) for general app use. -- Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com RE: Buttons / Navigator
as fas as i know i dont like those kind of directional buttons found on cellphones like the t68i. but i hope palm isnt like sony when it comes to buttons. RE: Buttons / Navigator
"Those single-button "5-way" joysticks are HORRIBLE!!! " The 5-way joystick on some of SonyEricsson's phones are extremely usable and I would love to see something like them on a PDA. I don't mean the one on the T68i - the T300, T600 and T610 type joysticks are amazing. RE: CameraStudentDoc @ 3/26/2003 5:45:20 PM #
I dunno, it really looks like a pop-up camera by the pic. Particularly because of the cutout for the stylus along the top of the camera piece and the piece below. I don't know, just guessing. RE: Buttons / Navigator
I think that instead of being a popUP camera, it is a sliding cover for the camera lens. Similar to what is used in many digicams, especialy minoltas, some sony's and olympus. Even the logitech mini camera has something like this. +--+ |LC| +--+ RE: Buttons / Navigator
>"I dunno, it really looks like a pop-up camera by the pic. Particularly because of the cutout for the stylus along the top of the camera piece and the piece below. "< Well, I may be way off here, but it just looks like a plain old metal slide cover that you move manually (GASP!! You mean I have to *DO* something to make it work?). Kind of like the slider on the T|T, only this only covers the camera lens (and possibly switches power on to the camera circuitry). Just my $0.02. =) It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity. RE: Buttons / NavigatorStudentDoc @ 3/26/2003 11:18:17 PM #
Good call on the slide-down cover. That actually makes more sense. I am looking forward to more info on this possible little gem. I looks Photoshopped to me.
Or maybe it's just the overall quality of the picture that gives me that impression. I like the 5W Nav button on the T|T, and don't care for it's implementation on some phones (not enough differntiation when the "ring" and the button are flush with each other. I hope the joystick (if that's what it turns out to be) is flush enough that you don't feel it in your shirt pocket. But I can understand the tendency to hit a direction when trying to "push" or activate the "Enter/Select" function. Ooops: *IT* looks Photoshopped...
I've *got* to start proof reading. ______________________________ An armed society is a polite society. RE: Buttons / Navigatorsunchong9999 @ 3/28/2003 2:17:15 PM #
5-way joystick on my T68i was working very nice! It make me no need to move my finger around buttons. Love to see sth on Palm.
Does Palm becoming slide-addicted? Actually, it the slide of T|T make me not buying it. I think there may have problem after a frequent use (may be just fall apart). I don't want any more slides. 
 Not Bad
For the low end of the Palm spectrum I agree this looks pretty good, if this is indeed what it coming out. Curious though, anyone know what the memory in this device would be? Max color?
For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul. RE: Not Bad
Not crazy about the camera, but I like the rumored feature set and price point. _____ Fammy RE: Not Badi2oadi2unnei2 @ 3/26/2003 11:08:24 AM #
No microphone? You're right, I guess now we can eliminate the feature of recording voice memos...
SD expansion port
Looks interesting. Palm would be wise to stick to the metal front imho. Is a new Palm model with "SD expansion port" automaticely SDIO supported? So people could use Bluetooth or WiFi SDIO Cards (which are delayed by the way). Sandisk and SyChip say that they will come with WiFi SDIO Card which support Palm OS. Wi-Fi SD Cards Delayed Until Mid-Year It's not a real surprise to me that these WiFi SD Cards are delayed. WiFi integrating into these small SD Cards is very tough imho. Bluetooth is much better qualified (size) to put into small cards and/or products RE: Not Bad
Argh! I want my SD Wi-Fi! "Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx RE: Not Bad
>"16MB(13 usable) and 320x320, 65,000 colors"< Only 13MB usable?!?!?!?!!!! That's worse than the Tungsten|T which has a more robust feature set!! In this day and age, I'd have to say that it borders on unacceptable, even with cheap expansion memory. Palm is relying too heavily on this concept, IMHO, at least with only one card slot. Oh, well, it's still better than the recent Clies as far as memory is concerned. It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity. RE: Not Bad
Having only 13MB of 16MB usable indicates that Palm SG decided to increase the amount of space allocated for the dynamic heap. While affecting main storage, this actually is a good move for games and multimedia programs, because they will have more heap space available, and can do more processing in fast heap memory. Yes, its a trade-off, and going to 32MB would have been nice, but this is a positive thing for developers that want to produce more complex applications. -- Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com Dynamic HeapEdward Green @ 3/27/2003 6:25:21 PM #
Ben could you tell us more how the ammount of DH memory affects aplication speed? I know that the Clie's use more, and have heard that Browsers like Netfront are slow on the smaller heaped TT devices, but how does it all work at all? RE: Not Bad
More complex application? by God, is it still Zen? Next thing you know people will demand Textmaker for Palm OS. (sarcasm) RE: Not Bad
"Next thing you know people will demand Textmaker for Palm OS." Yep, all 5.72 megabytes worth! (sarcasm noted :) Post-Zen PalmEdward Green @ 3/28/2003 4:03:19 AM #
I'm not convinced the Market wants Zen anymore. The most Zen part of Palm is the OS, Launcher and GUI. Most applications stick to Palm OS look and feel, but more and more are ignoring it. Most users are not even aware how powerful and quick Palms built in HTML rendering and PQA's are, instead prefering to wait 30 seconds or more for a full rendering. Many applications could benefit from using this within them, but don't. The weirdest thing about the death of Zen is the VFS solution. Instead of app designers writing software that runs seemlessly with all or some of it on a memory card they leave it up to people to buy third party solutions - So many users replace the launcher with a third party one. All I want is Palm application designers to create their software so that if I install it on an SD card at Hotsync it runs as normal and can find it's databases. Is this too much to ask? I don't think there is much room for the Zen of Palm anymore. Palm's seem very tricky to set up and get working to their best ability when they should be very simple.
RE: Not Bad
Hmmm why do I have this feeling this will be an OS4 device with a 160x160 color screen... That makes more sense to me. Just not sure how they could put out a $250 palm with almost the same specs as the Tungsten for a few hundred bucks less... Hotoru RE: Not Badpalm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/30/2003 1:48:22 PM #
You know, I really don't care what makes sense to you. This model is 320 x 320 Transflective 65,000 color, with OS 5.2.1. All you haters can drop dead.
RE: Not Bad
>>>More complex application? by God, is it still Zen? Next thing you know people will demand Textmaker for Palm OS.
-- damn right I would! And I'm not being sarcastic.
Form Factor
Aside from the plastic rather than metal case, it looks like this is pretty close to the oft mentioned Palm V style OS 5 device.
This looks pretty thin and one hopes will have a Palm V style flip cover on the side rail (rather than over the top where the camera is).
There's one of my 2003 predictions!!
Okay, so it's only half right, I don't think they'll be writing off any current Zire inventory. One down, nine to go. =)
It's a bit funny
Is this pretty much the nail in Palm's coffin for innovation? This seems like a half-assed, knock-off of the Clie NR series, in terms of features. (NOTE: I am NOT saying that Sony is leading the innovation charge, but you have to admit that they've done the most to push the envelope in terms of integrated features). Granted it's much cheaper than the Clies, but still, one has to wonder, if Palm is simply waiting to see what Sony does and copies it. Where's the market leadership? This just tells me "if you want to get the latest in features, get a Sony; if you want to get a cheap knock-off, get a Palm." RE: It's a bit funny
EVERYTHING comes with a builtin camera these days. Heck, I'm going to be able to start buying milk with it's own "built-in" camera soon. For the Zire to have one is no big deal, just following the trend. NOT FUNNY AT ALL!!!!gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 12:16:46 PM #
How the heck do you figure this is a "half-assed, knock-off of the Clie NR series"? Please tell me if you can mention any PalmOS 5.x pda with integrated camera for under $300 bucks today? What about any PPC w/integrated camera for <$300 bucks? And don't give me the add-on blab bla. This feature set makes the Zire 71 UNIQUE at this price point which indeed very deliberate and thoughtful, not half assed!! RE: It's a bit funny
Palm must have one of the biggest coffins in the universe with all the nails you guys have added to it in the last couple of years RE: It's a bit funny
Originally posted by Aqonistes: "Where's the market leadership? This just tells me 'if you want to get the latest in features, get a Sony; if you want to get a cheap knock-off, get a Palm.'" ------------------ And what this comment tells me is that you're really going overboard in yet another attempt at claiming that Sony is soon going to destroy Palm. Granted, Sony has beaten Palm to the punch on some high-profile features. But I don't think Sony was the first to offer built-in Bluetooth on a PalmOS device. And I don't believe Sony will be the first company to offer a device with OS5.2 and Graffiti2, especially at the rumored price point. I understand your point--Palm wouldn't offer some features if Sony hadn't, but isn't that obvious for ANY competitive industry? HP is about to offer a dual-slot iPaq, but I bet if you check out the PPC boards, you won't see people complaining about the iPaq, as the "market leader," waiting so long to include this feature. And yet we have to see this drivel on PIC, and it's getting tiresome. RE: It's a bit funny
I really don't know what anyone would consider having Grafitti2 included is a good thing. It is just a response to the Xerox lawsuits. Most people I know are hoping the first PalmOS device with this downgraded version of Grafitti won't ship anytime soon. Hopefully Sony WILL be "behind" on the "innovation" of Grafitti2... RE: It's a bit funny
Also remember that many of Sony's "innovations" were brought to market first by Handera. Virtual Graffiti, a real speaker, dual card slots, and a removable Lithium Ion battery pack. In many ways, the HE330 is still one of the most flexible PDAs available. Sadly, no color, and no OS5 versions to date. =( Oh, and on the subject of Graffiti 2, I'm hoping that someone will make an add on program (like Crossing Over or Graffiti Anywhere) that will add G1 back into the OS, kind of like a hack. It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity. RE: It's a bit funny
I don't understand the hype about Graffiti 2 either. It's almost exactly the same as Graffti 1, excepct they changed the letters T, K, I, and the number 4. They did improve the entering of punctuation, but if your used to it the way it is, you have to learn a complete new system. It's completly different. Not only that, they already said there is a bug in Graffiti 2 where any letter that have more than one stroke can't be used for the shortcut function, or any other app that completes an action right after the first stroke is finshed (cause on Graffiti 1, it was okay to assume a character is finished after the first stroke). So basicly, it doesn't really improve anything, make more work to write some letters, and introduces more bugs. I think I'll pass on Graffiti 2 for now. "Final nail... blah, blah..." is hysterical.
I suppose that if you constantly predicts "the end of Palm in their Final Nail Fantasy, regardless of how little they actually know about technology and marketing, they will eventually be correct. Assuming they live long enough, that is. What's with that mentality anyway, and do these prophets and technology wizards ever say "I guess I missed that call" or is it "Wait until next year!" Sony had had some innovations, and some of them have indeed been ala the Microsoft "Innovation" syndrome. But where would Sony be if they had no competition? Worse, where would the consumer be? I tend to prefer Palm products over most others because of the basic form factor. Others (I don't think I need to even mention Sony) are trying to make THE All-in-One device, regardless of size. Maybe Palm will try it someday, but I (and probably a few others) want a PDA- a personal digital assistant that I don't have to carry in an Alice pack, not a Portable Home Entertainmet Center. For those who want IT all, fine. But to argue that failing to include a Direct TV dish in a PDA is the death knell, is laughable. RE: It's a bit funnysunchong9999 @ 3/28/2003 2:37:55 PM #
Couldn't agree more to Wollombi. BTW, the first Palm Device of HE, TRGpro, is the first Palm Device comes with memory card slot(CF). No doubt that Sony is successful in producing attractive cosumer goods but some features are really not important for most users. Say, I'd like to have a normal screen instead of a flip screen that blocks the IR port sometime. I preferred a PDA only device than a PDA device with cam, flash light and mp3 but drain power w/in a short time and destroy all my data. Simply Palm. Keep it compact, no need to be multi-tasked / multi-functional. RE: It's a bit funny
Palm also intruduced 5-way navigators to PalmOS. Even if SONY wins at making new stuff, Palm still outsells SONY. Palm is doing something right. it's just product design, not innovation
Also remember that many of Sony's "innovations" were brought to market first by Handera.
Calling any of this stuff "innovation" is pretty ridiculous. None of the features on these handhelds, or even on the original Palms, Handeras, or Sonys, were novel: there were other handhelds before them that had them, they just weren't commercially successful. What Palm managed to do was to deliver decent hardware at a decent price point, and to create a market and developer community around themselves. And these days, it's mostly their pre-existing market share and developer community that are carrying them, not even competitive pricing (with the possible exception of the low-end Zire).
Palm getting it right this time?
This looks like a Tungsten T (plus camera) in a Palm V form factor without the high initial $$$. If the rumors are indeed true, than I believe Palm's got it right this time. I strongly believe that there are still lots of Palm V/Vx/5xx users wanting to upgrade to OS5 but may stayed away from the Tungsten T's form factor or do not want to pay for a pricey Tungsten C with a thumbboard. Hopefully, the screen (size & quality) is similar to the Tungsten T, with a body thickness at 0.5 inches, and be able to fit into a aluminum hard case shell and still be ultra-compact. The camera is a plus too. RE: Palm getting it right this time?
They just need to rename this a Tungsten now, instead of a Zire. Yes, I know the Zire is for "consumer" PDAs, but how many "consumers" will pay $250-$300 for a PDA anymore, when they can get a m130 for $140 or an Axim for $200? Remember, this is the group of people who made the first Zire a best seller... To add to that, wouldn't any "consumer" willing to pay $250 or more rather have a "professional" version? Also, will real "professionals" be less likely to buy a product targeted to "consumers"? (I've complained before about Palm's marketing, and they still aren't showing me anything that would change my opinion of them.) (BTW: other than the above, I really like it, and if it's at $249, it will be very competitive.) RE: Palm getting it right this time?
What's in a name? Consumers aren't going to care one way or the other if the handheld says "Zire" or "Tungsten". They're going to look at the sub $300 handhelds on display and think "This one has a camera and a nice bright screen", and plunk down their cash. If this Zire 71 is real -- and I think it probably is -- this looks like one of the best PalmOS PDAs in a long time (since the m505, I'd say). RE: Palm getting it right this time?
Any real marketing person will tell you, there's a lot in a name. (Talk to an engineer or programmer however, and they'll go "but it has great stats!".) Why did the m505/515 sell much better than the comparable sony devices, even though the sony PDAs were much better? Why did the Zire sell so well, even though you could get a m105 cheaper? Why did the T|T sell poorly? Why were the VII and i705 horrible sellers? What was the biggest market for the m100? I'm not sure that Palm really knows the answers to these questions. Competition in PDAs has become fierce. Palm needs to start targeting customers instead of just tossing stuff over the wall and hoping it sells. RE: Palm getting it right this time?
>>"Why did the m505/515 sell much better than the comparable sony devices, even though the sony PDAs were much better? Why did the Zire sell so well, even though you could get a m105 cheaper? Why did the T|T sell poorly? Why were the VII and i705 horrible sellers? What was the biggest market for the m100? I'm not sure that Palm really knows the answers to these questions."<< Palm may not know the answer to them all, but I'm not sure that proves your point about the name. I mean, really, Palm V sells but Palm VII doesn't, and it's the name that's the reason? Not quite sure about that one. RE: Palm getting it right this time?
Are we going to get beeps and boops on this thing, or are we getting polyphonic sound? RE: Palm getting it right this time?
"Palm may not know the answer to them all, but I'm not sure that proves your point about the name. I mean, really, Palm V sells but Palm VII doesn't, and it's the name that's the reason? Not quite sure about that one." The name isn't the end-all, be-all. But it is an important part of product positioning. Especially the name of the product family. That tends to shape product perception. Which would customers prefer, a pentium 4, or a same speed pentium 4 relabeled with the celeron name? There's no difference, but most would want the P4 anyway.
Sony is still growing in marketshare and numbers sold. Palm is still dropping in numbers sold and keeps even in marketshare only because everyone else but sony is losing marketshare. And this is despite the fact that every device sony sells is more expensive than the zire. Palm's marketing pretty much amounts to letting engineers design specs, tossing the product out for sale, running a few ads, and hoping it does well. I've seen that same setup at many companies, and they mostly don't know why they succeed, and don't know why they fail. The Palm hardware group is called the "solutions" group. I'm not really seeing many solutions coming out of there. More like bits and pieces of technology that the customer must tack together themselves. If they would actually target specific groups, then they could start making solutions that solve problems from out of the box. Finding these target groups is a marketing problem. I bet that Palm could sell 2M zires per year to schools alone if they would target them correctly. RE: Palm getting it right this time?
I think after T|T followed by T|W, Tungsten brand name is pretty much associated with Palm flopish attempt to focus on corporate market. Zire seems to have better acceptance. RE: Palm getting it right this time?
Yep. Remember Zire was the biggest seller the last holiday season. Makes sense to stick to that branding, even if more "sophisticated" users resent this. ________________________________________ "Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx RE: Palm getting it right this time?
If this product is real, then whether or not it is a Palm V or m50x replacement depends on how thick it is. If it's almost twice as thick, then it's not a replacement for many people who prefer a thinner form factor.
I'm buying one!JonAcheson @ 3/26/2003 11:23:11 AM #
OS 5: Check Hi-res screen: check Headphone jacks: Check Game controller: Check SD Expansion port: Check Decent buttons: Almost certainly a check. Price: Check! The only down sides are the clip-on screen cover, which I can live with, and the lack of the nice metal casing of the Tungstens. The camera isn't the greatest camera in the world, but given everything else, it's a freebie. As for thumb-boards vs. Graffiti, I played with the Sony thumb-boards at CompUSA the other day, and they pretty much sucked. The Handspring Treo 90 was better, but no OS 5 or hi-res. My ideal PDA now looks a lot like a Zaurus 700, but with Palm OS and decent battery life. Until that day, this will do just fine. Jon Acheson
RE: I'm buying one!gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 11:45:47 AM #
Well I hate to one of those people who always complain, but there is one thing that is missing: Virtual graffit! I 320x480 screen in that from factor woudl have been amazing... RE: I'm buying one!
I would have to agree. I've been tough on Palm lately for lack of innovation, but at the right price point ($249 or $299) this might be a very solid palmtop... Then again, it's going to kill T|T sales... RE: I'm buying one!
>320x480 screen in that from factor woudl have been amazing And if Sony produces a model with virtual graffiti in this size and price point that would be cool too. I like the concept, but am unwilling to go to the NX due to size/weight issues. RE: I'm buying one! not me,,i think
My next pda gotta have voice recorder, sometimes im too lazy to take down an info like directions. RE: I'm buying one!I.M Anonymous @ 3/26/2003 3:50:10 PM #
I went through the same mental checklist, but I then came to this item: Graffiti 1.0: no check I can't stand Grafitti 2.0, as many characters require many more strokes. Until a patch for OS5.2 comes out that has G1.0, I won't buy it. RE: I'm buying one!
If you NEED Grafitti 1... see TealScript. It includes both G1 & G2 style letters and allows you to create your own letter definitions. I deleted out all the extra character definitions that I didn't like/use.
Go to: www.robofish.com/download/beta/tealscrp.zip
I so want it to be real but...glennmarclee @ 3/26/2003 11:41:57 AM #
That looks like a neat lil thing cause of the price..but if i'm not wrong..infrared is spelt like that and not infared..but i might be wrong..the date and day on the address book check up so...i'm not sure i might be wrong..anyway any new gadget is great even if i cant afford it..new things are nice things to look at..and i cant wait for samsung's new MIT's you laugh at me cause i'm different... i laugh cause you are all the same... you're right! it is spelled wrong...nightmaredmc @ 3/26/2003 12:16:10 PM #
I noticed that infrared was spelt infared as well, which is wrong. It may be a mockup of a Palm Zire, but I hope it is true. I want the form factor of the Palm V series with the screen of the sony clie series. A voice recorder should be a must and the camera won't hurt. Hope to save enough to trade in my trusty ol' T665C clie! Palm! I'm coming home! What gains you make in life amount to naught... RE: I so want it to be real but...
March 29th, that's in 3 days. I wonder if this will be released/annouced then. Unlikely, but we can dream.
_____ Fammy
Crank up the Broken Record
Here we go again. Where on earth is virtual graffiti? This is a nice device that is similar to the V & m5xx form factor which I love. But, dear Lord why does Palm still waste 1/3 of the screen real estate on this static graffiti area. G2 is out yet we still have to contend with wasted screen area. This unit seems to have a decent glass:frontal area ratio, but blows another opportunity by using the outdated square screen. Screen real estate increases have the potential to send the convenience / usefulness of the small-thin-lightweight handheld skyward. Visualize a Palm V sized color 320x480 with actual viewability from corner to corner. The actual viewing area would almost double on the shown device. I realize battery life would be compromised. But adjustable backlighting could conserve. The sacrifice would be well worth it. My m505 with dim-color is good enough 90% of the time. If Sony's does the obvious with virtual graffiti on the T series "bracket" replacement units for OS5. I'll probably switch. C'mon Palm! MHO, of course. :-) Always find something wrong...gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 11:53:57 AM #
You can always find someting wrong with a device, but I think you have to look at the whole picture here and realize that this is pretty damn nice feature set, if true. I also wish the Zire 71 had VG, but I also could wish for BT, 32 MB RAM, and wifi!! For $250 bucks this is very nice combination of features IMO and if you want the extra stuff, you're probably gonna have to pay more... RE: Crank up the Broken RecordFoo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 12:34:39 PM #
I can live without Virtual Graffiti, but I can't stomach yet another Reflective LCD. Currently, Palm is the LAST handheld maker still producing PDAs with old Reflective screens. It's time they jump on the same boat with Sony and Pocket PC vendors and start switching to Tranflective displays. Sorry, I'll step off my soap box. Yes, For the Love of All Good & Fuzzy Things...sundance_7 @ 3/26/2003 1:30:18 PM #
I beseech you... Let there be Virtual Graffiti / Jotness. Virtual Jaffiti? Sounds like a Jamiroquai tune... But honestly: Gimme, gimme, I need, I need. sundance RE: Crank up the Broken Record
> why does Palm still waste 1/3 of the screen real estate Because *most* people value price and battery life more. A hires color display is the costliest and most power hungry module in a PDA, and bigger means worse in terms of those factors. OLED's might eventually change this equation, but probably not this year. The Zire is aimed at the more typical purchaser. For people who don't care as much about price or battery bulk, there's always the Garmin unit and the NZ's. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
I think this is a good palm machine. Probably within 6 months it will be selling for $200. So, for that price, it is a good deal. I think the VG is a absolutly necessay. IMHO! RE: Crank up the Broken RecordTimothy Rapson @ 3/26/2003 9:55:59 PM #
Palm is not the last using reflective screens. The very newest Clie, the TG50 has a reflective, not transflective screen. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Even if I am wrong about trans or ref, the Clie screen is not brighter than the Toshiba E330-740, or Ipaq 3800 series that I AM sure are merely reflective. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Because *most* people value price and battery life more. Ay-Men. Better that I can't see the screen 5% of the week because it's too dark than that not being able to see it 20% of the week because the battery is dead and I haven't been by the cradle lately. I'm worried that 'Broken record' people are going to drive good battery life units off the market before I buy my next PDA (Not for a while yet.) RE: Crank up the Broken Record
uh, guys, it might not be a reflective screen. it might be a transflective STN passive matrix (like on the m130), which, IMO, is worse than reflective TFT active matrix. passive displays ghost like no tomorrow. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
h1910 is smaller than T|T in volume and has longer battery with bigger screen. RE: Crank up the Broken RecordFoo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 8:47:30 AM #
Timothy, the TG50 does not have a reflective display. And yes, Palm IS the LAST to use reflectives. Toshiba has now abandoned these LCDs and gone reflective like the rest of the PDA industry. Palm is last of the Mohicans, and that isn't a charming quality. As for your claim that reflectives are "brighter and richer" than tranflectives....I can only say...LAY OFF THE CRACK!! There is no way anyone could possibly believe that Toshiba's screens are "better" than the current generation of transflectives like the HP 1910. That's just crazy talk! ;) RE: Crank up the Broken Record
>h1910 is smaller than T|T in volume and has longer battery with bigger screen. The 1910 has a *smaller* screen in terms of pixel count, only 240 vs. 320 pixels in width, or 25% smaller. The display refresh power is roughly proportional to the number of pixels. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
So are you now saying people wants power hungry screen as long as it has more pixels (LOL) you can't even keep your story straight. Do people want long battery or no long battery? Not to mention staring at 2.5 inch screen as oppose to 3.5-4 inches. Hey maybe the ultimate PDA screen would be one of those micro screen with PDA resolution that you have to put on gogle and carry external battery.
RE: Crank up the Broken RecordTimothy Rapson @ 3/27/2003 9:05:16 PM #
RE: Foo Figher wrote "As for your claim that reflectives are "brighter and richer" than tranflectives....I can only say...LAY OFF THE CRACK!! There is no way anyone could possibly believe that Toshiba's screens are "better" than the current generation of transflectives like the HP 1910. That's just crazy talk! ;)" Please reread my post. I said the transflectives were brighter and richer than the reflectives. I understand this. I am not sure (for me) it is worth trading off even a little out of doors effectiveness. I use my PDA out of doors about 1/3 of the time and have to have at least as good a outside screen as I do with my NR. Anyway, the screen of the NR, if transflective, is no brighter than most reflectives. It certainly is not as bright as the screens that I am 100% sure are transflectives; the 3900 and newer Ipaqs. In fact, I can hardly tell the difference (except for the VG, of course, between a Sony N760 and my NR) How sure are you that the NR is transflective and how do you explain reports that the NZ is a whole level brighter than the NR or NX. (I am assuming here, that the TG uses the same screen technology as the NX, I haven't seen one up close and running yet.) RE: Crank up the Broken RecordTimothy Rapson @ 3/27/2003 9:12:44 PM #
Adendum, it is probably a moot point anyway, as you have said above. The reflectives are going to be gone by Christmas. I may not be able to use a transflective if I can't get one that is good enough out of doors, but I expect that one model or another will feature a transflective screen tweaked to work outside. Anyway, my NR is likely to hold me for a long time, so it won't matter to me so much personally. Unless I glom onto a Sony P800 :) RE: Crank up the Broken RecordFoo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 9:47:11 PM #
Ok, Timothy. Let me offer you some clarity. Your NR70 uses an older Transflective screen. So did my old T615C (which came out at the same time as the NR70) and it was generally poorer outdoors. New generation displays are signifcantly brighter and richer...and they look better outdoors. The iPaq 3900, 1910, Axim, and Sony NX/NZ all use the latest Transflectives. So does the TG50, but there appears to be a problem with this display, it sports and stage-light shadow effect at the bottom of the screen. As for outdoor visibility problems, this is largely a myth. Both REFLECTIVE and TRANSFLECTIVE are made to be viewed outdoors. While it is true that Reflectives have a slight edge over Transflectives outdoors (transflectives have a slightly darker background), the difference is negligible. And anyone that says it is hard to view these screens outdoors is a liar. Usually these comments are made by TT apologists who try to justify their dust ridden $500 investment. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
> Do people want long battery or ... The Asian market probably requires a hires display for their character sets, even if that eats into the battery life. For the Western market though, a 160x160 (lores) Palm OS 5 unit could be made thinner (smaller battery because of the lower pixel count) and still have a decent battery life. That's a competitive advantage for Palm in terms of battery life (whether or not they know it). I don't think that PPC's can have displays with that resolution. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Here's a pic of exactly what the original point about screen real estate is all about. A non-static writing area and pushing the screen to the corners would in this example increase viewablity > 95% over the current model. Compare a laptop from 1993 with one today. Same principle ... screen to the edges. http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/71vg.jpg This technology is already here, someone needs to just do it. The eBook reader flop that I think Franklin came out with was the closest I've seen. The SJ series(glass area) & garmin are gettin' this direction. HP1910 pretty strong too although from the "dark side". Sorry for the crude photo edit & also don't try to make sense of that datebook either! :-) RE: Crank up the Broken RecordTimothy Rapson @ 3/28/2003 8:35:47 AM #
RE: " RE: Crank up the Broken Record Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 9:47:11 PM Ok, Timothy. Let me offer you some clarity. Your NR70 uses an older Transflective screen. So did my old T615C (which came out at the same time as the NR70) and it was generally poorer outdoors. New generation displays are signifcantly brighter and richer...and they look better outdoors. The iPaq 3900, 1910, Axim, and Sony NX/NZ all use the latest Transflectives. So does the TG50, but there appears to be a problem with this display, it sports and stage-light shadow effect at the bottom of the screen."
All the stuff about screens goes to one bottom line. If you try it and it works for your use, then it doesn't matter what got it there. I am satisfied with my NR screen. One as bright and vibrant as the latest translfectives (eg.5450) with the resollution of the NR and following would be great. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
"The Asian market probably requires a hires display for their character sets, even if that eats into the battery life. For the Western market though, a 160x160 (lores) Palm OS 5 unit could be made thinner (smaller battery because of the lower pixel count) and still have a decent battery life. I don't think that PPC's can have displays with that resolution."
RE: Crank up the Broken Record
First, get your nomenclature correct. Both TI (OMAP) and Intel (XScale) license the ARM architecture. Second, both TI and Intel announced new ARM architecture processor families with claimed lower power consumptions. The new TI OMAPs were actually mentioned in an earlier story on palminfocenter than the new XScale chips. RE: Crank up the Broken Record
first get a clue.
1.all ARM POS (T|T/NX) are in the LOW range of battery endurance compared to recent PPC. I say ARM POS because you are going to blurb about Zire, Vx, mxxx, SJ or whatever other dragonball paperweight and how those are the real PALM, what public wants, sell the most, or whatever other inane comment about what suppose to be a real PDA. 2.whatever announcement was printed on PIC. PPC uses any of new arm chip first. (SA, 250, 255). talking about it first doesn't mean jack until product hit the market. 3. there is NO new TI chip. it's OMAP 1510 period. PXA255 already out in the market and benchmark indicates it uses about 20-30% less power.
WOW! Finally PalmSTG's answer to the Dell Axim!!gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 11:47:23 AM #
$249 bucks for the Zire 71 is pretty nice price point IMO and should do quite well against the Axim and Clie SJ33 etc. I'm glad PalmSG seems to finaly get the act together and I hope this thing sells like hotcakes. The only complaints I would have are the absense of VG and/or lack of >16 MB Ram, but for the price you really can't complain!
Reflective or Transflective?Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 12:18:44 PM #
Any more info on the screen? Particularly, what type of display it's using? If it is yet another Reflective, I'll pass. "it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs RE: Reflective or Transflective?
Why? Reflective is infinitely better than transflective. I want a display that looks great in all lighting conditions. Transflective don't cut it outdoors. RE: Reflective or Transflective?Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 1:01:54 PM #
Yeah, it looks better outdoors if you don't mind peering through all the dust specs under glass. "it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs RE: Reflective or Transflective?Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 1:06:32 PM #
And really this argument is moot. The entire PDA industy is moving to Transflectives. Over the next 12-24 months, you won't even have a choice. "it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs RE: Reflective or Transflective?
it might be transflective, but don't put it past palm to use passive STN technology to reduce the cost. the m130 has a transflective display, and it is very nice and bright with great color saturation, but it's low-res and passive matrix. if this new zire is real, the pic makes clear that it's hi-res, but it still might be passive. i would take a reflective TFT active matrix over a transflective passive matrix anyday. guess it's a wait and see game. RE: Reflective or Transflective?palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 12:03:23 AM #
It's not STN, It is TFT without a doubt
Its SOOO Close!
This device is VERY close to my dream Palm device. I have a Tungsten/T which I generaly like (BUT don't prefer the slider and sheap screen cover)... I still prefer the form factor of my old PalmVx. I think the perfect OS5 device should be modeled after the M515 design with the M515 rails on each side for a Then add the T/T's hi res screen, voice recording, sound capabilities (I like playing MP3's)and add the round "d-pad" That combined with 32MB RAM and it would be the perfect PDA. I love grafitti so I'm not interested in a PDA with a keyboard. Basically if they made a slightly higher end version of this Zire with more memory, sound recording and playback, and the round d-pad I'd probably buy one tomorrow!! CAD Jedi RE: Its SOOO Close!
Yes, this is ALMOST my next PDA. I don't like the flip cover-- prefer the Vx/505 rail system so I can put it in a leather case. I also don't want a camera in my PDA. That's just a toy...I'd rather they used the space for a larger battery. But hi res screen with OS5 is great. Maybe the NEXT model out will have virtual graffitti. RE: Its SOOO Close!
That's funny, because after owning a Clie NR70V, I could never buy a PDA without a camera. I've been close a few times to buying the T|T and more recently the TG50, but I can't seem to pull the trigger without a camera. I also can't imagine not having Hi-Res+. So, I guess I'll have to wait for the rumored NX replacement. RE: Its SOOO Close!Timothy Rapson @ 3/26/2003 10:01:27 PM #
"That's funny, because after owning a Clie NR70V, I could never buy a PDA without a camera. I've been close a few times to buying the T|T and more recently the TG50, but I can't seem to pull the trigger without a camera. I also can't imagine not having Hi-Res+. So, I guess I'll have to wait for the rumored NX replacement." RE: Its SOOO Close!skennedy1217 @ 3/26/2003 10:56:20 PM #
"This device is VERY close to my dream Palm device. I have a Tungsten/T which I generaly like (BUT don't prefer the slider and sheap screen cover)... I still prefer the form factor of my old PalmVx."
I have a T|T now and actually prefer the form factor over my m500. While I loved the overall size of the m500, I hated how it flared at the bottom. My T|T has a much better feel in my hand. The slider I could go either way on...but I like the length when collapsed (fits in my front pocket quite nicely).
Could be a winner
Decent looking product (although I really like the iPod white of the current Zire). Anyway, if the price point is $299 it needs Bluetooth and 32mb of RAM. Which it may have, being that none of us really no for sure at this point.
71??
Looks like a winner to me. A very nice upgrade for all those folks who bought Zires over the past 6 months and now want an upgrade. I think Palm is on target with their strategy and price. Well done. The "Zire 71" name seems a bit randowm? Any educated guesses as to what the 71 stands for? I have absolutely no idea.... RE: 71??
My guess is "Zire Z1".....sorta like the first lackluster Zire was the "Zire 0" and now we'll have 1, 2, 3, 4, etc....cheesy, yes, but at least people will be able to follow the generations easily enough. Zires could use a "Z+numeral" designation, while the Tungstens are "T+alphabetic character" nomenclature. This is, again, a near hit by Palm....good ideas, but some questionsable design choices. I'd actually rather see a lower-end color Zire (8mb, no sound capability etc) at the $150 price point, and then a refreshed Tungsten T at the higher end, with the current T|T going to a $299 MSRP (and if/when the current stocks sell out, a revamped software bundle with the Real Player included in the box). However, I think Palm's trying to clear out ALL units that use Graffiti 1 ASAP and pretend that the last 7 years of character input never existed. If nothing else, G2 is what would keep me from ever buying one of these new Zires...unless, of course, some rock solid 3rd party support comes about to enable it. Hello Xerox, you can make a nice little side business by licensing G1 or coming up with your own package. Just like how Cyberlink charges $10 for their DVD decoder for Windows Media Player, the same could be done for G1 plugins. I'd go for it in a heartbeat. RE: 71??
71st time is a charm? only took 71 tires to squeeze that camera in there? 71 tries before they gave up?
For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul. RE: 71??
Probably the person's number in the beta test program. They won't be getting them any more. RE: 71??
I though the whole Tungsten / Zire naming thing was to get away from the alpha + number thing that they were doing in the past, like IIIx, Vx, VIx, M130, M515. Now we have Zire 71? That doesn't make any sense now does it? RE: 71??
I though the whole Tungsten / Zire naming thing was to get away from the alpha + number thing that they were doing in the past, like IIIx, Vx, VIx, M130, M515. Now we have Zire 71? That doesn't make any sense now does it? RE: 71??
Palm is quite obviously hoping that this unit appeals to the under 71 crowd - it is a very subtle way to say that if you're still in your 60's, its a "must have". My other hypothesis is that it is aimed at the Abercrombie crowd. E.g. AF 71 (or 83, or 19, etc). What do the numbers that go next to AF stand for? Who knows! But to tweeners, its all cool. So, now you get Zire 71, which will in short order become "Z 71" in street lingo. E.g. "Daddy just bought me a Z 71." So, Palm is working both ends of the spectrum. I'd call it marketing strategy. Or something like that. IIIxe & 3:16 RE: 71??Jarrod Cifer @ 3/27/2003 8:02:14 AM #
Is it possible the picture is just bad and in reality it's supposed to be Zire Z1? At least I could understand that one. -- J. Cifer RE: 71??
J. Cifer - I like your theory. Z1 sure sounds a lot better than 71. More catchy, sounds like a sports car... The "Zire Zeeee One", sounds like Zire's Theee One.... _________ Paul C. RE: 71??
I was going to post that yesterday but thought against it, since BMW actually released a Z1 sports car in the early 90s--just not in the US market. It was essentially a dart-shaped version of hte Z3 and IMHO was much edgier and funkier looking. They are now true collector's items. So for European marketing purposes (not to mention the threat of BMW suing them because everyone else is doing so lately), Palm probably won't call it a Z1 but a Zire 7 or Z7 might be acceptable... RE: 71??
I've got it!!! Palm SG developed 100 preproduction units for testing. Agent #71 was fired yesterday when nobody stepped forward to offer information on who leaked a photo to PIC. RE: 71??
I've got it (v1.1)!!!!! It's not "Zire 71", but rather "Zire ?!" to represent Palm's corporate future.
no bluetooth???!!
If this device would have bluetooth built-in it would be a great one from palm! IRDA is history! RE: no bluetooth???!!
A lof of future Palm models will have built-in Bluetooth (and WiFi imho). Costs of WiFi and Bluetooth come down. But to have built-in Wireless is still a cost and development issue. People think to easy about wireless built-in. Patience required. "There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without" RE: no bluetooth???!!
I really thought that by now Palm had intended to have Bluetooth in nearly all their PDA models.
Is this Panther?
Is this the rumored Panther seen in the inventory systems at $300? Could Panther be its code name? RE: Is this Panther?
Hows that for a straight foward answer? Well, all those hoping that it would be at $249 will be disapointed.
Zire not so dire
This looks rather interesting! I'd like to know what the stylus is like. I hope it is a *good* one. (Does the current Z have a good stylus? Worst styli in the world: Sony's too thin/too short, hp 1910 ditto, and the Dell Axim.) That center button needs trying... looks too small... And what's with all this color in Datebook?! Is this a new feature they're adding or have I missed something? RE: Zire not so direpalm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 8:20:02 PM #
The stylus is kinda crappy, it's plastic. And just an all in all low point for the unit. But at $250, they had to save money somewhere.
Cannot imagine its being $249
Even $299 is a very good price (and Palm is not noted for pricing new models very low).
If it debuts at $249, I'll eat my hat -- or buy one! If they can make a decent profit at $249, they will sell a ton of them and my Palm stock might become worth something.
Why I suspect its a fake...
Sorry guys, really cool PDA and all (not to mention something you may possibly see) but the image isn't true. I'm always hesitant to make assumptions about random images, but there is one thing that tells me for CERTAIN you will never see that picture coming from palm... the labeling of the pic. The was the UC label line crosses other label lines is very strongly against palm's arrangement practices. there are other ways to arrange the text/lines w/out making things cross... so this isn't a final image from palm. (and if it is, someone made a boo-boo) Another odd quirk: the camera side shot. If you notice, it looks like a T|T w/ a lens on it. But there is two tone metal AND a ridge on the outsides of it half way down that shot. When you look at the front side that ridge isn't there. This leads me to believe the image is not genuine as it does not fit with palm's exterior design practices. (that due to both the use of THREE metal/plastic colors and the ridge) Just some things to look at, RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
heh, replying to myself, but i just ran this by my company's photoshop expert... we noticed that camera is really spealt camora, plus this misspelled infrared... Thats what we've got for now, in addition to some more style points i noticed while analysing it... im quickly coming to discredit the IMAGE (though not the potential availibility of a product like this). -Pepper RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Sorry, Pepper, you need to gain some more years to know how the world works with things like this. This can easily be one of two things: 1) A proof copy (they are always riddled with errors, hence the proofing!) 2) A retailer's ad (man, can they make mistakes!!) I believe this is real. RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
I can tell you that there is a lot of image editing going on here. This is definitely a fake pic. I took an image editing class and they taight us how to spot image editing. You would be surprised how much they use photoshop on girls on the front covers of mags. Look at the pic and look at the graffiti area and see how there is blackness seperating the outer plastic from the graffiti area. If you look at any palm the graffiti area extends underneath the outer plastic so there should not be any black line surrounding that area. Also, the placement of the screen pic does not seem right either. Also, count in all those misspellings and it appears someone was trying to do a rush job on this one. I say it's fake. It's possible this could have been a prototype image of what it could look like but I guarantee that is not a picture of any prototype. Too many image editing mistakes. Nice try though. RE: Why I suspect its a fake...palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:53:26 PM #
Think it's a fake all you like, but that does not change the fact that I've seen these rolling down the production line. When your at line at Best Buy puchasing your Zire 71, I expect a full and written apology. RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
So many people screamed "FAKE!" over the last round of sneaked pics -- and never bothered to come out to shout "I WAS WRONG!!" Will you? RE: Why I suspect its a fake...palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 8:22:14 PM #
Of course there is image editing, it's a package insert. You think they can make little floating 3d text boxes hang out over top of the unit while they shoot the marketing photography?!? RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Oh, i am not doubting the possibility of a final product with these specs (and i intend on squeezing the details on the matter out of a palm rep by this weekend), what i am saying is that there is no way this picture is "real". I suppose your interpretation of real is up to you, but the way i see it that means this image will NOT be released to the public by palm. There are just too many flaws for that to be a release image. Rough draft, yes; final, no. -Pepper RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Hey, gang...I am not trying to sound shallow at all but....I hope the rather unattractive lady on the first Zire's packaging doesn't make a return appearance on tis unit's box. Speaking of which, I wonder if Palm will continue their blister pack thing or go with a conventional box. I *really* hope that the Graffiti area will be backlit on this one but I really don't think we are ever going to see another backlit fixed Graffiti area, G1 or G2 or otherwise. We'll have to wait 'til VG is embraced by Palm for that one! RE: Why I suspect its a fake...StudentDoc @ 3/26/2003 11:33:51 PM #
I don't know, but this is the most realistic leaked machine I have seen in a while. A couple of misspellings doesn't convince me this is fake. Not that I am saying it is real, but I just don't think you can go off of a couple of small errors or even photoshop-added screens. Look at the SJ-33 picture that Sony released that shows a virtual graffiti area on a machine that has been released. Sometimes the people putting together the pictures of a unit for marketing or to show at a meeting don't get everything right--that doesn't mean the machine doesn't exist. (This looks more like an internal kind of document to me anyway.) I know when I worked for IBM, we would get mockups for new ThinkPads that looked nothing like the final product, documents from Japan full of English mistakes, and pictures that would take parts from one machine and stick them on another machine to convey an idea. The customers never saw these things; they were just for the internal US group to get an idea of what TP engineering in the US and Japan were working on. Of course, maybe I just want to believe it. I want to upgrade my Clie T615 and I don't want a 3lb., folding brick with a keyboard, 5 Megapixel camera, and a toaster with a 45 minute battery life. Also, SD would be nice instead of Memory Schtick. Since Sony doesn't seem to understand this, I am hoping Palm does. Just my own opinion. RE: Why I suspect its a fake...palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 11:58:10 PM #
This picture came directly out of the packaging. The spelling error in "Infared" Palm simply missed, the "camora" is simply your error, it plainly saya Camera. I do not know if they are going to correct this error before mass release. But I can tell you this is a piece of material that came directly out of the blisterpack of a customer acceptance build. I have seen and played with these units personaly. I know it is not a "Hoax" or "Fake" as some would call it. And you will see it as well in a fairly short amount of time, I'm thinking mid-april at the latest. RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
"i intend on squeezing the details on the matter out of a palm rep by this weekend" Pepper, while you have the rep cornered, ask about the T|T2 for me... My kids were going to get me an upgrade and I've been waiting since January! RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
"The spelling error in "Infared" Palm simply missed, the "camora" is simply your error, it plainly saya Camera." Actually, if you'd look at the image with a program like Photoshop (as I just did to fulfill my own curiosity), it's rather clear that it is indeed an "o" instead of an "e" in "camora". Here's the pic zoomed in and sharpened: RE: Why I suspect its a fake...palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 3:01:11 AM #
I'm affraid I'm goin to have to disagree. I hold the actuall source material in my hand, it is an E, bar none. I don't care what your photoshoping reveals, the reason for alot of the distortion in the image is becase it is an digital picture of a package insert, and this particular insert is warped. But, it is still an E. Am I the Man? The man I am. RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Altema: sorry, i dont intend on working out the details of a T|T's cusin right now. Its a lot easier to get the info on low to mid range stuff than the high end stuff. Probly cause the people figure that if its low end its less likely to get plastered all over the net. Dont ask me about their logic... all i do is try to maximize their info -Pepper RE: Why I suspect its a fake...meckter_67 @ 4/4/2003 8:52:17 PM #
Well everyone will see the truth shortly....I was watching them pack these yesterday. Pack as in going out the door to the customer, and the insert still says Infared....PBD would have mentioned it but he's really really busy these days... Meckter RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Did any fall off the truck? Ahem...
Were any unwrapped so you could try the camera firsthand? I hope those pictures are an anomaly and that the camera is as good as the second-gen eyemodule from IDEO. If the camera is as bad as those half-a**ed efforts from Kodak, it'll be another nail in Palm's suicidal coffin... See eyemodule samples here -- http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2001/03/23/qt_authoring.html
The camerapalm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:14:11 PM #
The camera does indeed slide out, the aluminum back side slides down to reveal the lens, and on the screen side of the unit, the lower part of the "back" reveals a completely different button to operate the camera. When the camera lens is exposed, the unit automatically goes into "camera" mode. RE: The cameraTimothy Rapson @ 3/27/2003 8:02:19 AM #
Ah, so the camera slides out. Great. I may get some of these Zires for the family, even though they don't have VG.
By the way Dropper. YOU DA MAN!
All the goodiespalm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:43:39 PM #
Included in the package. The "71" itsself USB HotSync Cradle Carrying Case Normal base software apps + Palm Photos Desktop software Software Essentials CD -RealOne Mobile Player -Kinoma Video Player and Producer -Adobe Acrobat Reader for Palm OS -and some more crap SIZE N WEIGHT MEMORY OS SCREEN CAMERA EXPANSION PROCESSOR
RE: All the goodiesFoo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 9:50:44 PM #
Well I have no way of knowing for sure whether you REALLY do have "insider" info on this product, but |
I would say the jury is out on the new kind of navigator. As much as I think the joystick might be an improvement for some applications, my gut says a traditional disc shaped pad would be a better for all applications (both "entertainment" and "productivity").
The Camera looks like it slides out or something, too.
Joystick aside, this is looking very compelling.
-Kevin Crossman