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Comments on: Rumor: More Info on the Zire 71

Palm Zire 71 ~ click for largerA PIC reader has posted a possible picture of the Palm Zire 71 and more details have become available. The Zire 71 is rumored to have a color screen and is the first Palm branded model to include an integrated digital camera.
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Buttons / Navigator

kevdo @ 3/26/2003 10:34:13 AM #
Interesting that the "To-Do" button says Photos. One presumes this is the application that will control the camera. The standard To Do application is pretty useless currently anyway, since you can't set alarms on To Do items (we do recommend To Do Plus for this however).

I would say the jury is out on the new kind of navigator. As much as I think the joystick might be an improvement for some applications, my gut says a traditional disc shaped pad would be a better for all applications (both "entertainment" and "productivity").

The Camera looks like it slides out or something, too.

Joystick aside, this is looking very compelling.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Buttons / Navigator
JonAcheson @ 3/26/2003 11:34:56 AM #
I thought that was a clip-on screen cover that was sitting on the back of the device, rather than a slide-out camera. Why make the camera slide out? Just put an automatic cover on it.

Jon Acheson


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

OH NO!!!!!
mikemusick @ 3/26/2003 12:15:20 PM #
Those single-button "5-way" joysticks are HORRIBLE!!! I have a couple of other gadgets which use them and it is absolutely impossible to access the "push" function without inadvertently hitting an up/down/left/right. If they weren't multi-hundred-dollar devices they would have been "impact tested" a long, long time ago.

WHAT IN THE HECK WERE YOU THINKING, PALM???!?!!

RE: Buttons / Navigator
Ben S @ 3/26/2003 12:43:53 PM #
I'd reserve judgement on the usability of a joystick navigator. Palm has always been good at designing devices with good physical usability.

RE: Not-So-Sliding Camera
sundance_7 @ 3/26/2003 1:25:31 PM #
I think perhaps the learned poster above may have misinterpreted the image, and that perhaps the shot displays a reverse angle of the Zire 71 partially exposed in a cradle.

Maybe, maybe not...
sundance

RE: Buttons / Navigator
critic @ 3/26/2003 1:26:26 PM #
For the record, the "5 way navigator" on the T|T is actually a 4-way D-pad (similar to a video game control) with a button in the center. You don't press down on the whole control - just the center.

----
What do you think, sirs?
RE: Buttons / Navigator
graph @ 3/26/2003 1:51:48 PM #
people liked the 5way navigator thats why they had to get rid of it?,,,,

RE: Buttons / Navigator
bcombee @ 3/26/2003 2:20:53 PM #
I actually think this kind of navigator would work better for action games. The T|T and T|W navigation pads work great for selecting a single direction, but moving from one direction to another is a little awkward, especially with the button in the center. A joystick that can be pushed in (similar to the analog sticks on the PlayStation 2 controller), would work really well, especially if it had a looser feel, while still being a pretty good choice (but not as good as the current 5-way nav) for general app use.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Buttons / Navigator
graph @ 3/26/2003 3:06:36 PM #
as fas as i know i dont like those kind of directional buttons found on cellphones like the t68i.

but i hope palm isnt like sony when it comes to buttons.

RE: Buttons / Navigator
Stefanos @ 3/26/2003 4:46:51 PM #
"Those single-button "5-way" joysticks are HORRIBLE!!! "

The 5-way joystick on some of SonyEricsson's phones are extremely usable and I would love to see something like them on a PDA. I don't mean the one on the T68i - the T300, T600 and T610 type joysticks are amazing.

RE: Camera
StudentDoc @ 3/26/2003 5:45:20 PM #
I dunno, it really looks like a pop-up camera by the pic. Particularly because of the cutout for the stylus along the top of the camera piece and the piece below.

I don't know, just guessing.

RE: Buttons / Navigator
lcohen @ 3/26/2003 8:45:50 PM #
I think that instead of being a popUP camera, it is a sliding cover for the camera lens. Similar to what is used in many digicams, especialy minoltas, some sony's and olympus. Even the logitech mini camera has something like this.

+--+
|LC|
+--+
RE: Buttons / Navigator
Wollombi @ 3/26/2003 10:56:39 PM #
>"I dunno, it really looks like a pop-up camera by the pic. Particularly because of the cutout for the stylus along the top of the camera piece and the piece below. "<

Well, I may be way off here, but it just looks like a plain old metal slide cover that you move manually (GASP!! You mean I have to *DO* something to make it work?). Kind of like the slider on the T|T, only this only covers the camera lens (and possibly switches power on to the camera circuitry).

Just my $0.02. =)

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: Buttons / Navigator
StudentDoc @ 3/26/2003 11:18:17 PM #
Good call on the slide-down cover. That actually makes more sense.

I am looking forward to more info on this possible little gem.

I looks Photoshopped to me.
RAMdŽd @ 3/27/2003 11:06:13 AM #
Or maybe it's just the overall quality of the picture that gives me that impression.

I like the 5W Nav button on the T|T, and don't care for it's implementation on some phones (not enough differntiation when the "ring" and the button are flush with each other.

I hope the joystick (if that's what it turns out to be) is flush enough that you don't feel it in your shirt pocket.

But I can understand the tendency to hit a direction when trying to "push" or activate the "Enter/Select" function.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

Ooops: *IT* looks Photoshopped...
RAMdŽd @ 3/27/2003 11:11:15 AM #
I've *got* to start proof reading.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.
RE: Buttons / Navigator
sunchong9999 @ 3/28/2003 2:17:15 PM #
5-way joystick on my T68i was working very nice! It make me no need to move my finger around buttons. Love to see sth on Palm.

Does Palm becoming slide-addicted? Actually, it the slide of T|T make me not buying it. I think there may have problem after a frequent use (may be just fall apart). I don't want any more slides.

Simply Palm. Keep it compact, no need to be multi-tasked / multi-functional.

Not Bad

Morph @ 3/26/2003 10:41:27 AM #
For the low end of the Palm spectrum I agree this looks pretty good, if this is indeed what it coming out.
Curious though, anyone know what the memory in this device would be? Max color?



************************************************

For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul.

RE: Not Bad
Fammy @ 3/26/2003 10:46:35 AM #
Not crazy about the camera, but I like the rumored feature set and price point.

_____
Fammy
RE: Not Bad
dhchung @ 3/26/2003 10:56:15 AM #
But note that the new Zire doesn't have a microphone according to the picture

RE: Not Bad
i2oadi2unnei2 @ 3/26/2003 11:08:24 AM #
No microphone? You're right, I guess now we can eliminate the feature of recording voice memos...


...|3eep |3eep!!...

SD expansion port
pdangel @ 3/26/2003 2:05:20 PM #
Looks interesting. Palm would be wise to stick to the metal front imho. Is a new Palm model with "SD expansion port" automaticely SDIO supported? So people could use Bluetooth or WiFi SDIO Cards (which are delayed by the way). Sandisk and SyChip say that they will come with WiFi SDIO Card which support Palm OS.

Wi-Fi SD Cards Delayed Until Mid-Year
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Wi-Fi_SD_Cards_Delayed_Until_Mid-Year

It's not a real surprise to me that these WiFi SD Cards are delayed. WiFi integrating into these small SD Cards is very tough imho. Bluetooth is much better qualified (size) to put into small cards and/or products

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

RE: Not Bad
peitron @ 3/26/2003 5:30:00 PM #
Argh! I want my SD Wi-Fi!

"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: Not Bad
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:22:04 PM #
16MB(13 usable) and 320x320, 65,000 colors

RE: Not Bad
Wollombi @ 3/26/2003 10:59:56 PM #
>"16MB(13 usable) and 320x320, 65,000 colors"<

Only 13MB usable?!?!?!?!!!! That's worse than the Tungsten|T which has a more robust feature set!! In this day and age, I'd have to say that it borders on unacceptable, even with cheap expansion memory. Palm is relying too heavily on this concept, IMHO, at least with only one card slot.

Oh, well, it's still better than the recent Clies as far as memory is concerned.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: Not Bad
bcombee @ 3/27/2003 5:33:31 PM #
Having only 13MB of 16MB usable indicates that Palm SG decided to increase the amount of space allocated for the dynamic heap. While affecting main storage, this actually is a good move for games and multimedia programs, because they will have more heap space available, and can do more processing in fast heap memory. Yes, its a trade-off, and going to 32MB would have been nice, but this is a positive thing for developers that want to produce more complex applications.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
Dynamic Heap
Edward Green @ 3/27/2003 6:25:21 PM #
Ben could you tell us more how the ammount of DH memory affects aplication speed?

I know that the Clie's use more, and have heard that Browsers like Netfront are slow on the smaller heaped TT devices, but how does it all work at all?

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

RE: Not Bad
BlueAnon @ 3/27/2003 7:49:16 PM #
More complex application? by God, is it still Zen? Next thing you know people will demand Textmaker for Palm OS.

(sarcasm)

RE: Not Bad
Altema @ 3/27/2003 9:21:35 PM #
"Next thing you know people will demand Textmaker for Palm OS."

Yep, all 5.72 megabytes worth!

(sarcasm noted :)

Post-Zen Palm
Edward Green @ 3/28/2003 4:03:19 AM #
I'm not convinced the Market wants Zen anymore.

The most Zen part of Palm is the OS, Launcher and GUI. Most applications stick to Palm OS look and feel, but more and more are ignoring it.

Most users are not even aware how powerful and quick Palms built in HTML rendering and PQA's are, instead prefering to wait 30 seconds or more for a full rendering. Many applications could benefit from using this within them, but don't.

The weirdest thing about the death of Zen is the VFS solution. Instead of app designers writing software that runs seemlessly with all or some of it on a memory card they leave it up to people to buy third party solutions - So many users replace the launcher with a third party one.

All I want is Palm application designers to create their software so that if I install it on an SD card at Hotsync it runs as normal and can find it's databases. Is this too much to ask?

I don't think there is much room for the Zen of Palm anymore. Palm's seem very tricky to set up and get working to their best ability when they should be very simple.


Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

RE: Not Bad
Hotoru @ 3/28/2003 4:25:55 PM #
Hmmm why do I have this feeling this will be an OS4 device with a 160x160 color screen... That makes more sense to me.
Just not sure how they could put out a $250 palm with almost the same specs as the Tungsten for a few hundred bucks less...

Hotoru

RE: Not Bad
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/30/2003 1:48:22 PM #
You know, I really don't care what makes sense to you.
This model is 320 x 320 Transflective 65,000 color, with OS 5.2.1.

All you haters can drop dead.



--------------------------------------
Am I the Man? The man I am.

RE: Not Bad
mikecane @ 3/30/2003 2:29:29 PM #
>>>More complex application? by God, is it still Zen? Next thing you know people will demand Textmaker for Palm OS.

-- damn right I would! And I'm not being sarcastic.

Form Factor

kevdo @ 3/26/2003 10:43:17 AM #
Aside from the plastic rather than metal case, it looks like this is pretty close to the oft mentioned Palm V style OS 5 device.

This looks pretty thin and one hopes will have a Palm V style flip cover on the side rail (rather than over the top where the camera is).

-Kevin Crossman

There's one of my 2003 predictions!!

Lungboy @ 3/26/2003 11:01:42 AM #

Okay, so it's only half right, I don't think they'll be writing off any current Zire inventory.

One down, nine to go. =)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eagles may soar but at least weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.

RE: There's one of my 2003 predictions!!
JKingGrim @ 3/26/2003 7:51:31 PM #
What was the prediction?

It's a bit funny

Agonistes @ 3/26/2003 11:00:51 AM #
Is this pretty much the nail in Palm's coffin for innovation? This seems like a half-assed, knock-off of the Clie NR series, in terms of features. (NOTE: I am NOT saying that Sony is leading the innovation charge, but you have to admit that they've done the most to push the envelope in terms of integrated features).

Granted it's much cheaper than the Clies, but still, one has to wonder, if Palm is simply waiting to see what Sony does and copies it. Where's the market leadership? This just tells me "if you want to get the latest in features, get a Sony; if you want to get a cheap knock-off, get a Palm."

RE: It's a bit funny
IanJD @ 3/26/2003 11:16:05 AM #
So anything with a built-in camera is an NR-series knock-off?

RE: It's a bit funny
NR_Alien @ 3/26/2003 11:52:54 AM #
EVERYTHING comes with a builtin camera these days. Heck, I'm going to be able to start buying milk with it's own "built-in" camera soon. For the Zire to have one is no big deal, just following the trend.

NOT FUNNY AT ALL!!!!
gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 12:16:46 PM #
How the heck do you figure this is a "half-assed, knock-off of the Clie NR series"? Please tell me if you can mention any PalmOS 5.x pda with integrated camera for under $300 bucks today? What about any PPC w/integrated camera for <$300 bucks? And don't give me the add-on blab bla. This feature set makes the Zire 71 UNIQUE at this price point which indeed very deliberate and thoughtful, not half assed!!

RE: It's a bit funny
nyates @ 3/26/2003 12:26:40 PM #
Palm must have one of the biggest coffins in the universe with all the nails you guys have added to it in the last couple of years

RE: It's a bit funny
alexp @ 3/26/2003 1:35:11 PM #
Originally posted by Aqonistes:

"Where's the market leadership? This just tells me 'if you want to get the latest in features, get a Sony; if you want to get a cheap knock-off, get a Palm.'"

------------------

And what this comment tells me is that you're really going overboard in yet another attempt at claiming that Sony is soon going to destroy Palm. Granted, Sony has beaten Palm to the punch on some high-profile features. But I don't think Sony was the first to offer built-in Bluetooth on a PalmOS device. And I don't believe Sony will be the first company to offer a device with OS5.2 and Graffiti2, especially at the rumored price point.

I understand your point--Palm wouldn't offer some features if Sony hadn't, but isn't that obvious for ANY competitive industry? HP is about to offer a dual-slot iPaq, but I bet if you check out the PPC boards, you won't see people complaining about the iPaq, as the "market leader," waiting so long to include this feature. And yet we have to see this drivel on PIC, and it's getting tiresome.

RE: It's a bit funny
cypher76 @ 3/26/2003 6:23:09 PM #
I really don't know what anyone would consider having Grafitti2 included is a good thing. It is just a response to the Xerox lawsuits. Most people I know are hoping the first PalmOS device with this downgraded version of Grafitti won't ship anytime soon. Hopefully Sony WILL be "behind" on the "innovation" of Grafitti2...
RE: It's a bit funny
Wollombi @ 3/26/2003 11:04:32 PM #
Also remember that many of Sony's "innovations" were brought to market first by Handera. Virtual Graffiti, a real speaker, dual card slots, and a removable Lithium Ion battery pack. In many ways, the HE330 is still one of the most flexible PDAs available. Sadly, no color, and no OS5 versions to date. =(

Oh, and on the subject of Graffiti 2, I'm hoping that someone will make an add on program (like Crossing Over or Graffiti Anywhere) that will add G1 back into the OS, kind of like a hack.

_________________
Sean

It is not very comfortable to have the gift of being amused at one's own absurdity.
-Somerset Maugham-

RE: It's a bit funny
cbulock @ 3/27/2003 4:10:13 AM #
I don't understand the hype about Graffiti 2 either. It's almost exactly the same as Graffti 1, excepct they changed the letters T, K, I, and the number 4. They did improve the entering of punctuation, but if your used to it the way it is, you have to learn a complete new system. It's completly different. Not only that, they already said there is a bug in Graffiti 2 where any letter that have more than one stroke can't be used for the shortcut function, or any other app that completes an action right after the first stroke is finshed (cause on Graffiti 1, it was okay to assume a character is finished after the first stroke).

So basicly, it doesn't really improve anything, make more work to write some letters, and introduces more bugs. I think I'll pass on Graffiti 2 for now.

"Final nail... blah, blah..." is hysterical.
RAMdŽd @ 3/28/2003 11:33:13 AM #
I suppose that if you constantly predicts "the end of Palm in their Final Nail Fantasy, regardless of how little they actually know about technology and marketing, they will eventually be correct. Assuming they live long enough, that is.

What's with that mentality anyway, and do these prophets and technology wizards ever say "I guess I missed that call" or is it "Wait until next year!"

Sony had had some innovations, and some of them have indeed been ala the Microsoft "Innovation" syndrome. But where would Sony be if they had no competition? Worse, where would the consumer be?

I tend to prefer Palm products over most others because of the basic form factor. Others (I don't think I need to even mention Sony) are trying to make THE All-in-One device, regardless of size.

Maybe Palm will try it someday, but I (and probably a few others) want a PDA- a personal digital assistant that I don't have to carry in an Alice pack, not a Portable Home Entertainmet Center.

For those who want IT all, fine. But to argue that failing to include a Direct TV dish in a PDA is the death knell, is laughable.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: It's a bit funny
sunchong9999 @ 3/28/2003 2:37:55 PM #
Couldn't agree more to Wollombi. BTW, the first Palm Device of HE, TRGpro, is the first Palm Device comes with memory card slot(CF). No doubt that Sony is successful in producing attractive cosumer goods but some features are really not important for most users. Say, I'd like to have a normal screen instead of a flip screen that blocks the IR port sometime. I preferred a PDA only device than a PDA device with cam, flash light and mp3 but drain power w/in a short time and destroy all my data.

Simply Palm. Keep it compact, no need to be multi-tasked / multi-functional.
RE: It's a bit funny
JKingGrim @ 3/28/2003 2:41:25 PM #
Palm also intruduced 5-way navigators to PalmOS. Even if SONY wins at making new stuff, Palm still outsells SONY. Palm is doing something right.

it's just product design, not innovation
mj6798 @ 4/16/2003 6:53:40 PM #
Also remember that many of Sony's "innovations" were brought to market first by Handera.

Calling any of this stuff "innovation" is pretty ridiculous. None of the features on these handhelds, or even on the original Palms, Handeras, or Sonys, were novel: there were other handhelds before them that had them, they just weren't commercially successful.

What Palm managed to do was to deliver decent hardware at a decent price point, and to create a market and developer community around themselves. And these days, it's mostly their pre-existing market share and developer community that are carrying them, not even competitive pricing (with the possible exception of the low-end Zire).

Palm getting it right this time?

dkhaw @ 3/26/2003 11:16:12 AM #
This looks like a Tungsten T (plus camera) in a Palm V form factor without the high initial $$$. If the rumors are indeed true, than I believe Palm's got it right this time. I strongly believe that there are still lots of Palm V/Vx/5xx users wanting to upgrade to OS5 but may stayed away from the Tungsten T's form factor or do not want to pay for a pricey Tungsten C with a thumbboard. Hopefully, the screen (size & quality) is similar to the Tungsten T, with a body thickness at 0.5 inches, and be able to fit into a aluminum hard case shell and still be ultra-compact. The camera is a plus too.

RE: Palm getting it right this time?
twalk @ 3/26/2003 12:04:58 PM #
They just need to rename this a Tungsten now, instead of a Zire.

Yes, I know the Zire is for "consumer" PDAs, but how many "consumers" will pay $250-$300 for a PDA anymore, when they can get a m130 for $140 or an Axim for $200? Remember, this is the group of people who made the first Zire a best seller...

To add to that, wouldn't any "consumer" willing to pay $250 or more rather have a "professional" version?

Also, will real "professionals" be less likely to buy a product targeted to "consumers"?

(I've complained before about Palm's marketing, and they still aren't showing me anything that would change my opinion of them.)

(BTW: other than the above, I really like it, and if it's at $249, it will be very competitive.)


RE: Palm getting it right this time?
Ben S @ 3/26/2003 12:46:42 PM #
What's in a name? Consumers aren't going to care one way or the other if the handheld says "Zire" or "Tungsten". They're going to look at the sub $300 handhelds on display and think "This one has a camera and a nice bright screen", and plunk down their cash.

If this Zire 71 is real -- and I think it probably is -- this looks like one of the best PalmOS PDAs in a long time (since the m505, I'd say).

RE: Palm getting it right this time?
twalk @ 3/26/2003 1:08:40 PM #
Any real marketing person will tell you, there's a lot in a name. (Talk to an engineer or programmer however, and they'll go "but it has great stats!".)

Why did the m505/515 sell much better than the comparable sony devices, even though the sony PDAs were much better? Why did the Zire sell so well, even though you could get a m105 cheaper? Why did the T|T sell poorly? Why were the VII and i705 horrible sellers? What was the biggest market for the m100?

I'm not sure that Palm really knows the answers to these questions.

Competition in PDAs has become fierce. Palm needs to start targeting customers instead of just tossing stuff over the wall and hoping it sells.


RE: Palm getting it right this time?
alexp @ 3/26/2003 1:59:03 PM #
>>"Why did the m505/515 sell much better than the comparable sony devices, even though the sony PDAs were much better? Why did the Zire sell so well, even though you could get a m105 cheaper? Why did the T|T sell poorly? Why were the VII and i705 horrible sellers? What was the biggest market for the m100?

I'm not sure that Palm really knows the answers to these questions."<<

Palm may not know the answer to them all, but I'm not sure that proves your point about the name. I mean, really, Palm V sells but Palm VII doesn't, and it's the name that's the reason? Not quite sure about that one.
Actually, considering Palm's ability to market devices like the m100 and the Zire successfully, I think you may be selling their marketing department short.

RE: Palm getting it right this time?
Beavis @ 3/26/2003 2:30:51 PM #
Are we going to get beeps and boops on this thing, or are we getting polyphonic sound?

RE: Palm getting it right this time?
twalk @ 3/26/2003 4:26:21 PM #
"Palm may not know the answer to them all, but I'm not sure that proves your point about the name. I
mean, really, Palm V sells but Palm VII doesn't, and it's the name that's the reason? Not quite sure about
that one."

The name isn't the end-all, be-all. But it is an important part of product positioning. Especially the name of the product family. That tends to shape product perception. Which would customers prefer, a pentium 4, or a same speed pentium 4 relabeled with the celeron name? There's no difference, but most would want the P4 anyway.


"Actually, considering Palm's ability to market devices like the m100 and the Zire successfully, I think you
may be selling their marketing department short."

Sony is still growing in marketshare and numbers sold. Palm is still dropping in numbers sold and keeps even in marketshare only because everyone else but sony is losing marketshare. And this is despite the fact that every device sony sells is more expensive than the zire.

Palm's marketing pretty much amounts to letting engineers design specs, tossing the product out for sale, running a few ads, and hoping it does well. I've seen that same setup at many companies, and they mostly don't know why they succeed, and don't know why they fail.

The Palm hardware group is called the "solutions" group. I'm not really seeing many solutions coming out of there. More like bits and pieces of technology that the customer must tack together themselves. If they would actually target specific groups, then they could start making solutions that solve problems from out of the box. Finding these target groups is a marketing problem.

I bet that Palm could sell 2M zires per year to schools alone if they would target them correctly.


RE: Palm getting it right this time?
BlueAnon @ 3/26/2003 4:48:46 PM #
I think after T|T followed by T|W, Tungsten brand name is pretty much associated with Palm flopish attempt to focus on corporate market.

Zire seems to have better acceptance.

RE: Palm getting it right this time?
peitron @ 3/26/2003 5:33:09 PM #
Yep. Remember Zire was the biggest seller the last holiday season. Makes sense to stick to that branding, even if more "sophisticated" users resent this.

________________________________________
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: Palm getting it right this time?
hotpaw4 @ 3/27/2003 4:07:07 PM #
If this product is real, then whether or not it is a Palm V or m50x replacement depends on how thick it is. If it's almost twice as thick, then it's not a replacement for many people who prefer a thinner form factor.

I'm buying one!

JonAcheson @ 3/26/2003 11:23:11 AM #
OS 5: Check
Hi-res screen: check
Headphone jacks: Check
Game controller: Check
SD Expansion port: Check
Decent buttons: Almost certainly a check.
Price: Check!

The only down sides are the clip-on screen cover, which I can live with, and the lack of the nice metal casing of the Tungstens.

The camera isn't the greatest camera in the world, but given everything else, it's a freebie.

As for thumb-boards vs. Graffiti, I played with the Sony thumb-boards at CompUSA the other day, and they pretty much sucked. The Handspring Treo 90 was better, but no OS 5 or hi-res.

My ideal PDA now looks a lot like a Zaurus 700, but with Palm OS and decent battery life. Until that day, this will do just fine.

Jon Acheson


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: I'm buying one!
gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 11:45:47 AM #
Well I hate to one of those people who always complain, but there is one thing that is missing: Virtual graffit! I 320x480 screen in that from factor woudl have been amazing...

RE: I'm buying one!
93LE @ 3/26/2003 11:59:53 AM #
I would have to agree. I've been tough on Palm lately for lack of innovation, but at the right price point ($249 or $299) this might be a very solid palmtop... Then again, it's going to kill T|T sales...

RE: I'm buying one!
kevdo @ 3/26/2003 1:06:28 PM #
>320x480 screen in that from factor woudl have been amazing

And if Sony produces a model with virtual graffiti in this size and price point that would be cool too. I like the concept, but am unwilling to go to the NX due to size/weight issues.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: I'm buying one! not me,,i think
graph @ 3/26/2003 1:55:02 PM #
My next pda gotta have voice recorder, sometimes im too lazy to take down an info like directions.

RE: I'm buying one!
I.M Anonymous @ 3/26/2003 3:50:10 PM #
I went through the same mental checklist, but I then came to this item:

Graffiti 1.0: no check

I can't stand Grafitti 2.0, as many characters require many more strokes. Until a patch for OS5.2 comes out that has G1.0, I won't buy it.



RE: I'm buying one!
CADJedi @ 3/26/2003 3:58:39 PM #
If you NEED Grafitti 1... see TealScript. It includes both G1 & G2 style letters and allows you to create your own letter definitions. I deleted out all the extra character definitions that I didn't like/use.

Go to: www.robofish.com/download/beta/tealscrp.zip



I so want it to be real but...

glennmarclee @ 3/26/2003 11:41:57 AM #
That looks like a neat lil thing cause of the price..but if i'm not wrong..infrared is spelt like that and not infared..but i might be wrong..the date and day on the address book check up so...i'm not sure i might be wrong..anyway any new gadget is great even if i cant afford it..new things are nice things to look at..and i cant wait for samsung's new MIT's

you laugh at me cause i'm different... i laugh cause you are all the same...
you're right! it is spelled wrong...
nightmaredmc @ 3/26/2003 12:16:10 PM #
I noticed that infrared was spelt infared as well, which is wrong. It may be a mockup of a Palm Zire, but I hope it is true. I want the form factor of the Palm V series with the screen of the sony clie series. A voice recorder should be a must and the camera won't hurt. Hope to save enough to trade in my trusty ol' T665C clie! Palm! I'm coming home!

What gains you make in life amount to naught...
RE: I so want it to be real but...
peitron @ 3/26/2003 12:29:16 PM #
Look again, no voice recorder...

RE: I so want it to be real but...
Fammy @ 3/26/2003 1:29:42 PM #
March 29th, that's in 3 days. I wonder if this will be released/annouced then. Unlikely, but we can dream.

_____
Fammy

Crank up the Broken Record

LiveFaith @ 3/26/2003 11:37:43 AM #
Here we go again. Where on earth is virtual graffiti?

This is a nice device that is similar to the V & m5xx form factor which I love. But, dear Lord why does Palm still waste 1/3 of the screen real estate on this static graffiti area. G2 is out yet we still have to contend with wasted screen area.

This unit seems to have a decent glass:frontal area ratio, but blows another opportunity by using the outdated square screen.

Screen real estate increases have the potential to send the convenience / usefulness of the small-thin-lightweight handheld skyward. Visualize a Palm V sized color 320x480 with actual viewability from corner to corner. The actual viewing area would almost double on the shown device.

I realize battery life would be compromised. But adjustable backlighting could conserve. The sacrifice would be well worth it. My m505 with dim-color is good enough 90% of the time.

If Sony's does the obvious with virtual graffiti on the T series "bracket" replacement units for OS5. I'll probably switch. C'mon Palm!

MHO, of course. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Always find something wrong...
gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 11:53:57 AM #
You can always find someting wrong with a device, but I think you have to look at the whole picture here and realize that this is pretty damn nice feature set, if true. I also wish the Zire 71 had VG, but I also could wish for BT, 32 MB RAM, and wifi!! For $250 bucks this is very nice combination of features IMO and if you want the extra stuff, you're probably gonna have to pay more...

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 12:34:39 PM #
I can live without Virtual Graffiti, but I can't stomach yet another Reflective LCD. Currently, Palm is the LAST handheld maker still producing PDAs with old Reflective screens. It's time they jump on the same boat with Sony and Pocket PC vendors and start switching to Tranflective displays.

Sorry, I'll step off my soap box.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

Yes, For the Love of All Good & Fuzzy Things...
sundance_7 @ 3/26/2003 1:30:18 PM #
I beseech you...

Let there be Virtual Graffiti / Jotness.

Virtual Jaffiti? Sounds like a Jamiroquai tune...

But honestly: Gimme, gimme, I need, I need.

sundance

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
hotpaw4 @ 3/26/2003 1:42:25 PM #
> why does Palm still waste 1/3 of the screen real estate

Because *most* people value price and battery life more. A hires color display is the costliest and most power hungry module in a PDA, and bigger means worse in terms of those factors. OLED's might eventually change this equation, but probably not this year.

The Zire is aimed at the more typical purchaser. For people who don't care as much about price or battery bulk, there's always the Garmin unit and the NZ's.


RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Manicorp @ 3/26/2003 4:38:21 PM #
I think this is a good palm machine.
Probably within 6 months it will be selling for $200. So, for that price, it is a good deal.

I think the VG is a absolutly necessay.
I've owned Palm Vx, foolishly preordered m505, and currently use NR60. I just cant go back to a square screen. I really want OS5 machine but I'm gonna wait for somehting like this Zire, but with VG and BT or WiFi.

IMHO!
Sam

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Timothy Rapson @ 3/26/2003 9:55:59 PM #
Palm is not the last using reflective screens. The very newest Clie, the TG50 has a reflective, not transflective screen.

I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Even if I am wrong about trans or ref, the Clie screen is not brighter than the Toshiba E330-740, or Ipaq 3800 series that I AM sure are merely reflective.

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
orb2069 @ 3/26/2003 10:23:01 PM #
Because *most* people value price and battery life more.

Ay-Men. Better that I can't see the screen 5% of the week because it's too dark than that not being able to see it 20% of the week because the battery is dead and I haven't been by the cradle lately.

I'm worried that 'Broken record' people are going to drive good battery life units off the market before I buy my next PDA (Not for a while yet.)

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
kidA @ 3/26/2003 10:43:28 PM #
uh, guys, it might not be a reflective screen. it might be a transflective STN passive matrix (like on the m130), which, IMO, is worse than reflective TFT active matrix. passive displays ghost like no tomorrow.

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
BlueAnon @ 3/26/2003 11:29:41 PM #
h1910 is smaller than T|T in volume and has longer battery with bigger screen.
RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 8:47:30 AM #
Timothy, the TG50 does not have a reflective display. And yes, Palm IS the LAST to use reflectives. Toshiba has now abandoned these LCDs and gone reflective like the rest of the PDA industry. Palm is last of the Mohicans, and that isn't a charming quality.

As for your claim that reflectives are "brighter and richer" than tranflectives....I can only say...LAY OFF THE CRACK!! There is no way anyone could possibly believe that Toshiba's screens are "better" than the current generation of transflectives like the HP 1910. That's just crazy talk! ;)

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
hotpaw4 @ 3/27/2003 4:01:31 PM #
>h1910 is smaller than T|T in volume and has longer battery with bigger screen.

The 1910 has a *smaller* screen in terms of pixel count, only 240 vs. 320 pixels in width, or 25% smaller. The display refresh power is roughly proportional to the number of pixels.

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
BlueAnon @ 3/27/2003 7:53:07 PM #
So are you now saying people wants power hungry screen as long as it has more pixels (LOL) you can't even keep your story straight.

Do people want long battery or no long battery? Not to mention staring at 2.5 inch screen as oppose to 3.5-4 inches. Hey maybe the ultimate PDA screen would be one of those micro screen with PDA resolution that you have to put on gogle and carry external battery.


Because *most* people value price and battery life more. A hires color display is the costliest and most power hungry module in a PDA, and bigger means worse in terms of those factors. OLED's might eventually change this equation, but probably not this year.


RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Timothy Rapson @ 3/27/2003 9:05:16 PM #
RE: Foo Figher wrote

"As for your claim that reflectives are "brighter and richer" than tranflectives....I can only say...LAY OFF THE CRACK!! There is no way anyone could possibly believe that Toshiba's screens are "better" than the current generation of transflectives like the HP 1910. That's just crazy talk! ;)"

Please reread my post. I said the transflectives were brighter and richer than the reflectives. I understand this. I am not sure (for me) it is worth trading off even a little out of doors effectiveness. I use my PDA out of doors about 1/3 of the time and have to have at least as good a outside screen as I do with my NR.

Anyway, the screen of the NR, if transflective, is no brighter than most reflectives. It certainly is not as bright as the screens that I am 100% sure are transflectives; the 3900 and newer Ipaqs. In fact, I can hardly tell the difference (except for the VG, of course, between a Sony N760 and my NR)

How sure are you that the NR is transflective and how do you explain reports that the NZ is a whole level brighter than the NR or NX. (I am assuming here, that the TG uses the same screen technology as the NX, I haven't seen one up close and running yet.)


RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Timothy Rapson @ 3/27/2003 9:12:44 PM #
Adendum, it is probably a moot point anyway, as you have said above. The reflectives are going to be gone by Christmas. I may not be able to use a transflective if I can't get one that is good enough out of doors, but I expect that one model or another will feature a transflective screen tweaked to work outside.

Anyway, my NR is likely to hold me for a long time, so it won't matter to me so much personally.

Unless I glom onto a Sony P800 :)

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 9:47:11 PM #
Ok, Timothy. Let me offer you some clarity. Your NR70 uses an older Transflective screen. So did my old T615C (which came out at the same time as the NR70) and it was generally poorer outdoors. New generation displays are signifcantly brighter and richer...and they look better outdoors. The iPaq 3900, 1910, Axim, and Sony NX/NZ all use the latest Transflectives. So does the TG50, but there appears to be a problem with this display, it sports and stage-light shadow effect at the bottom of the screen.

As for outdoor visibility problems, this is largely a myth. Both REFLECTIVE and TRANSFLECTIVE are made to be viewed outdoors. While it is true that Reflectives have a slight edge over Transflectives outdoors (transflectives have a slightly darker background), the difference is negligible. And anyone that says it is hard to view these screens outdoors is a liar. Usually these comments are made by TT apologists who try to justify their dust ridden $500 investment.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
hotpaw4 @ 3/27/2003 11:32:51 PM #
> Do people want long battery or ...

The Asian market probably requires a hires display for their character sets, even if that eats into the battery life. For the Western market though, a 160x160 (lores) Palm OS 5 unit could be made thinner (smaller battery because of the lower pixel count) and still have a decent battery life.

That's a competitive advantage for Palm in terms of battery life (whether or not they know it). I don't think that PPC's can have displays with that resolution.

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
LiveFaith @ 3/28/2003 1:22:29 AM #
Here's a pic of exactly what the original point about screen real estate is all about. A non-static writing area and pushing the screen to the corners would in this example increase viewablity > 95% over the current model. Compare a laptop from 1993 with one today. Same principle ... screen to the edges.

http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/71vg.jpg

This technology is already here, someone needs to just do it. The eBook reader flop that I think Franklin came out with was the closest I've seen. The SJ series(glass area) & garmin are gettin' this direction. HP1910 pretty strong too although from the "dark side".

Sorry for the crude photo edit & also don't try to make sense of that datebook either! :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Timothy Rapson @ 3/28/2003 8:35:47 AM #
RE:
" RE: Crank up the Broken Record
Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 9:47:11 PM

Ok, Timothy. Let me offer you some clarity. Your NR70 uses an older Transflective screen. So did my old T615C (which came out at the same time as the NR70) and it was generally poorer outdoors. New generation displays are signifcantly brighter and richer...and they look better outdoors. The iPaq 3900, 1910, Axim, and Sony NX/NZ all use the latest Transflectives. So does the TG50, but there appears to be a problem with this display, it sports and stage-light shadow effect at the bottom of the screen."


Thank you. I have been trying to get this straight, and this statement you have made makes the most sense. My NR has the stage light shadow effect too. I only notice it in the rare times I use the screen in laptop open style, as it is covered with grafitti area when in tablet mode.

All the stuff about screens goes to one bottom line. If you try it and it works for your use, then it doesn't matter what got it there. I am satisfied with my NR screen. One as bright and vibrant as the latest translfectives (eg.5450) with the resollution of the NR and following would be great.

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
BlueAnon @ 3/28/2003 2:52:08 PM #
"The Asian market probably requires a hires display for their character sets, even if that eats into the battery life. For the Western market though, a 160x160 (lores) Palm OS 5 unit could be made thinner (smaller battery because of the lower pixel count) and still have a decent battery life.

I don't think that PPC's can have displays with that resolution."
---------------
PPC seems doing OK in chinese and japanese market, no display complain. In fact there are more company selling PPC in Japan than POS.,Palm Inc almost gone, Handspring bailing out, leaving only Sony. (PPC: Fujitsu, NEC, Tosh, Casio, Dell, HP...2 more smaller companies)


"That's a competitive advantage for Palm in terms of battery life (whether or not they know it). "
-------------------------------
I am sorry to prick your delusion, but current PPC has longer battery life than all ARM POS. In fact after PXA255, T|T will be dead last.


RE: Crank up the Broken Record
hotpaw4 @ 3/29/2003 1:40:33 AM #
First, get your nomenclature correct. Both TI (OMAP) and Intel (XScale) license the ARM architecture.

Second, both TI and Intel announced new ARM architecture processor families with claimed lower power consumptions. The new TI OMAPs were actually mentioned in an earlier story on palminfocenter than the new XScale chips.

RE: Crank up the Broken Record
BlueAnon @ 3/29/2003 8:14:20 AM #
first get a clue.

1.all ARM POS (T|T/NX) are in the LOW range of battery endurance compared to recent PPC. I say ARM POS because you are going to blurb about Zire, Vx, mxxx, SJ or whatever other dragonball paperweight and how those are the real PALM, what public wants, sell the most, or whatever other inane comment about what suppose to be a real PDA.

2.whatever announcement was printed on PIC. PPC uses any of new arm chip first. (SA, 250, 255). talking about it first doesn't mean jack until product hit the market.

3. there is NO new TI chip. it's OMAP 1510 period. PXA255 already out in the market and benchmark indicates it uses about 20-30% less power.

WOW! Finally PalmSTG's answer to the Dell Axim!!

gfunkmagic @ 3/26/2003 11:47:23 AM #
$249 bucks for the Zire 71 is pretty nice price point IMO and should do quite well against the Axim and Clie SJ33 etc. I'm glad PalmSG seems to finaly get the act together and I hope this thing sells like hotcakes. The only complaints I would have are the absense of VG and/or lack of >16 MB Ram, but for the price you really can't complain!

Reflective or Transflective?

Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 12:18:44 PM #
Any more info on the screen? Particularly, what type of display it's using? If it is yet another Reflective, I'll pass.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Reflective or Transflective?
Ben S @ 3/26/2003 12:50:28 PM #
Why? Reflective is infinitely better than transflective. I want a display that looks great in all lighting conditions. Transflective don't cut it outdoors.

RE: Reflective or Transflective?
Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 1:01:54 PM #
Yeah, it looks better outdoors if you don't mind peering through all the dust specs under glass.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Reflective or Transflective?
Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 1:06:32 PM #
And really this argument is moot. The entire PDA industy is moving to Transflectives. Over the next 12-24 months, you won't even have a choice.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Reflective or Transflective?
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:41:52 PM #
Transflective screen

RE: Reflective or Transflective?
kidA @ 3/26/2003 10:46:06 PM #
it might be transflective, but don't put it past palm to use passive STN technology to reduce the cost. the m130 has a transflective display, and it is very nice and bright with great color saturation, but it's low-res and passive matrix. if this new zire is real, the pic makes clear that it's hi-res, but it still might be passive. i would take a reflective TFT active matrix over a transflective passive matrix anyday. guess it's a wait and see game.

RE: Reflective or Transflective?
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 12:03:23 AM #
It's not STN, It is TFT without a doubt

Its SOOO Close!

CADJedi @ 3/26/2003 12:23:14 PM #
This device is VERY close to my dream Palm device. I have a Tungsten/T which I generaly like (BUT don't prefer the slider and sheap screen cover)... I still prefer the form factor of my old PalmVx.

I think the perfect OS5 device should be modeled after the M515 design with the M515 rails on each side for a
flip cover (I hate the T/T's plastic cover).

Then add the T/T's hi res screen, voice recording, sound capabilities (I like playing MP3's)and add the round "d-pad"

That combined with 32MB RAM and it would be the perfect PDA. I love grafitti so I'm not interested in a PDA with a keyboard.

Basically if they made a slightly higher end version of this Zire with more memory, sound recording and playback, and the round d-pad I'd probably buy one tomorrow!!

CAD Jedi

RE: Its SOOO Close!
Cheetah @ 3/26/2003 12:39:08 PM #
Yes, this is ALMOST my next PDA. I don't like the flip cover-- prefer the Vx/505 rail system so I can put it in a leather case.

I also don't want a camera in my PDA. That's just a toy...I'd rather they used the space for a larger battery.

But hi res screen with OS5 is great.

Maybe the NEXT model out will have virtual graffitti.



RE: Its SOOO Close!
sralmas @ 3/26/2003 1:12:46 PM #
That's funny, because after owning a Clie NR70V, I could never buy a PDA without a camera. I've been close a few times to buying the T|T and more recently the TG50, but I can't seem to pull the trigger without a camera. I also can't imagine not having Hi-Res+. So, I guess I'll have to wait for the rumored NX replacement.

RE: Its SOOO Close!
Timothy Rapson @ 3/26/2003 10:01:27 PM #

"That's funny, because after owning a Clie NR70V, I could never buy a PDA without a camera. I've been close a few times to buying the T|T and more recently the TG50, but I can't seem to pull the trigger without a camera. I also can't imagine not having Hi-Res+. So, I guess I'll have to wait for the rumored NX replacement."



RE: Its SOOO Close!
skennedy1217 @ 3/26/2003 10:56:20 PM #
"This device is VERY close to my dream Palm device. I have a Tungsten/T which I generaly like (BUT don't prefer the slider and sheap screen cover)... I still prefer the form factor of my old PalmVx."

I have a T|T now and actually prefer the form factor over my m500. While I loved the overall size of the m500, I hated how it flared at the bottom. My T|T has a much better feel in my hand. The slider I could go either way on...but I like the length when collapsed (fits in my front pocket quite nicely).

_____________________
m100 ==> m500 ==> T|T

Could be a winner

treo007 @ 3/26/2003 1:36:41 PM #
Decent looking product (although I really like the iPod white of the current Zire). Anyway, if the price point is $299 it needs Bluetooth and 32mb of RAM. Which it may have, being that none of us really no for sure at this point.

RE: Could be a winner
Beavis @ 3/26/2003 2:35:38 PM #
Maybe they will come out with a whole line of designer colors.

71??

ptc @ 3/26/2003 2:00:28 PM #
Looks like a winner to me. A very nice upgrade for all those folks who bought Zires over the past 6 months and now want an upgrade. I think Palm is on target with their strategy and price. Well done.

The "Zire 71" name seems a bit randowm? Any educated guesses as to what the 71 stands for? I have absolutely no idea....

_________
Paul C.

RE: 71??
hkklife @ 3/26/2003 2:21:43 PM #
My guess is "Zire Z1".....sorta like the first lackluster Zire was the "Zire 0" and now we'll have 1, 2, 3, 4, etc....cheesy, yes, but at least people will be able to follow the generations easily enough.

Zires could use a "Z+numeral" designation, while the Tungstens are "T+alphabetic character" nomenclature.

This is, again, a near hit by Palm....good ideas, but some questionsable design choices. I'd actually rather see a lower-end color Zire (8mb, no sound capability etc) at the $150 price point, and then a refreshed Tungsten T at the higher end, with the current T|T going to a $299 MSRP (and if/when the current stocks sell out, a revamped software bundle with the Real Player included in the box).

However, I think Palm's trying to clear out ALL units that use Graffiti 1 ASAP and pretend that the last 7 years of character input never existed. If nothing else, G2 is what would keep me from ever buying one of these new Zires...unless, of course, some rock solid 3rd party support comes about to enable it. Hello Xerox, you can make a nice little side business by licensing G1 or coming up with your own package. Just like how Cyberlink charges $10 for their DVD decoder for Windows Media Player, the same could be done for G1 plugins. I'd go for it in a heartbeat.



RE: 71??
Morph @ 3/26/2003 2:26:15 PM #
71st time is a charm?
only took 71 tires to squeeze that camera in there?
71 tries before they gave up?


************************************************

For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul.

RE: 71??
ganoe @ 3/26/2003 2:26:54 PM #
Probably the person's number in the beta test program. They won't be getting them any more.

RE: 71??
sralmas @ 3/26/2003 4:07:08 PM #
I though the whole Tungsten / Zire naming thing was to get away from the alpha + number thing that they were doing in the past, like IIIx, Vx, VIx, M130, M515. Now we have Zire 71? That doesn't make any sense now does it?

RE: 71??
sralmas @ 3/26/2003 4:07:08 PM #
I though the whole Tungsten / Zire naming thing was to get away from the alpha + number thing that they were doing in the past, like IIIx, Vx, VIx, M130, M515. Now we have Zire 71? That doesn't make any sense now does it?

RE: 71??
beboscott @ 3/26/2003 8:39:23 PM #
Palm is quite obviously hoping that this unit appeals to the under 71 crowd - it is a very subtle way to say that if you're still in your 60's, its a "must have". My other hypothesis is that it is aimed at the Abercrombie crowd. E.g. AF 71 (or 83, or 19, etc). What do the numbers that go next to AF stand for? Who knows! But to tweeners, its all cool. So, now you get Zire 71, which will in short order become "Z 71" in street lingo. E.g. "Daddy just bought me a Z 71." So, Palm is working both ends of the spectrum. I'd call it marketing strategy. Or something like that.

IIIxe & 3:16
RE: 71??
Jarrod Cifer @ 3/27/2003 8:02:14 AM #
Is it possible the picture is just bad and in reality it's supposed to be Zire Z1? At least I could understand that one.

--
J. Cifer
RE: 71??
ptc @ 3/27/2003 11:51:50 AM #
J. Cifer - I like your theory. Z1 sure sounds a lot better than 71. More catchy, sounds like a sports car... The "Zire Zeeee One", sounds like Zire's Theee One....

_________
Paul C.
RE: 71??
hkklife @ 3/27/2003 12:12:27 PM #
I was going to post that yesterday but thought against it, since BMW actually released a Z1 sports car in the early 90s--just not in the US market. It was essentially a dart-shaped version of hte Z3 and IMHO was much edgier and funkier looking. They are now true collector's items. So for European marketing purposes (not to mention the threat of BMW suing them because everyone else is doing so lately), Palm probably won't call it a Z1 but a Zire 7 or Z7 might be acceptable...

RE: 71??
LiveFaith @ 3/27/2003 11:39:39 PM #
I've got it!!!

Palm SG developed 100 preproduction units for testing. Agent #71 was fired yesterday when nobody stepped forward to offer information on who leaked a photo to PIC.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: 71??
LiveFaith @ 3/27/2003 11:42:53 PM #
I've got it (v1.1)!!!!!

It's not "Zire 71", but rather "Zire ?!" to represent Palm's corporate future.



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: 71??
Ben S @ 3/28/2003 3:37:00 PM #
Ahem. That's "Zed-1", not "Zee-1". :)

no bluetooth???!!

awdr @ 3/26/2003 2:40:11 PM #
If this device would have bluetooth built-in it would be a great one from palm!
IRDA is history!

RE: no bluetooth???!!
pdangel @ 3/26/2003 2:58:56 PM #
A lof of future Palm models will have built-in Bluetooth (and WiFi imho). Costs of WiFi and Bluetooth come down. But to have built-in Wireless is still a cost and development issue. People think to easy about wireless built-in. Patience required.

"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"
RE: no bluetooth???!!
ganoe @ 3/26/2003 4:05:40 PM #
I really thought that by now Palm had intended to have Bluetooth in nearly all their PDA models.

Is this Panther?

JKingGrim @ 3/26/2003 2:56:24 PM #
Is this the rumored Panther seen in the inventory systems at $300? Could Panther be its code name?

RE: Is this Panther?
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 8:19:20 PM #
yes

RE: Is this Panther?
JKingGrim @ 3/27/2003 2:48:11 PM #
Hows that for a straight foward answer? Well, all those hoping that it would be at $249 will be disapointed.

Zire not so dire

mikecane @ 3/26/2003 5:15:15 PM #
This looks rather interesting!

I'd like to know what the stylus is like. I hope it is a *good* one. (Does the current Z have a good stylus? Worst styli in the world: Sony's too thin/too short, hp 1910 ditto, and the Dell Axim.)

That center button needs trying... looks too small...

And what's with all this color in Datebook?! Is this a new feature they're adding or have I missed something?

RE: Zire not so dire
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 8:20:02 PM #
The stylus is kinda crappy, it's plastic. And just an all in all low point for the unit. But at $250, they had to save money somewhere.

Cannot imagine its being $249

ardee @ 3/26/2003 5:45:20 PM #
Even $299 is a very good price (and Palm is not noted for pricing new models very low).

If it debuts at $249, I'll eat my hat -- or buy one!

If they can make a decent profit at $249, they will sell a ton of them and my Palm stock might become worth something.


Why I suspect its a fake...

Pepper @ 3/26/2003 6:24:50 PM #
Sorry guys, really cool PDA and all (not to mention something you may possibly see) but the image isn't true. I'm always hesitant to make assumptions about random images, but there is one thing that tells me for CERTAIN you will never see that picture coming from palm... the labeling of the pic. The was the UC label line crosses other label lines is very strongly against palm's arrangement practices. there are other ways to arrange the text/lines w/out making things cross... so this isn't a final image from palm. (and if it is, someone made a boo-boo)

Another odd quirk: the camera side shot. If you notice, it looks like a T|T w/ a lens on it. But there is two tone metal AND a ridge on the outsides of it half way down that shot. When you look at the front side that ridge isn't there. This leads me to believe the image is not genuine as it does not fit with palm's exterior design practices. (that due to both the use of THREE metal/plastic colors and the ridge)

Just some things to look at,
-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Pepper @ 3/26/2003 6:42:27 PM #
heh, replying to myself, but i just ran this by my company's photoshop expert...

we noticed that camera is really spealt camora, plus this misspelled infrared...
by the name of it theres some poorly done blanding done on either side of the "zire" part.
the buttons aren't shadowed right either, the shading is the same all the way around the outside of a button
the line to the UC doesnt go all the way to the uc either, it stops where it crosses the line w/ the 2nd hardware button

Thats what we've got for now, in addition to some more style points i noticed while analysing it... im quickly coming to discredit the IMAGE (though not the potential availibility of a product like this).

-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
mikecane @ 3/26/2003 7:29:32 PM #
Sorry, Pepper, you need to gain some more years to know how the world works with things like this.

This can easily be one of two things:

1) A proof copy (they are always riddled with errors, hence the proofing!)

2) A retailer's ad (man, can they make mistakes!!)

I believe this is real.

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
jbeedham @ 3/26/2003 7:33:23 PM #
I can tell you that there is a lot of image editing going on here. This is definitely a fake pic. I took an image editing class and they taight us how to spot image editing. You would be surprised how much they use photoshop on girls on the front covers of mags.

Look at the pic and look at the graffiti area and see how there is blackness seperating the outer plastic from the graffiti area. If you look at any palm the graffiti area extends underneath the outer plastic so there should not be any black line surrounding that area. Also, the placement of the screen pic does not seem right either. Also, count in all those misspellings and it appears someone was trying to do a rush job on this one. I say it's fake.

It's possible this could have been a prototype image of what it could look like but I guarantee that is not a picture of any prototype. Too many image editing mistakes. Nice try though.

-------------------------------------------------------
currently using Palm m125 and waiting for Garmin iQue.

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:53:26 PM #
Think it's a fake all you like, but that does not change the fact that I've seen these rolling down the production line. When your at line at Best Buy puchasing your Zire 71, I expect a full and written apology.

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
mikecane @ 3/26/2003 7:54:27 PM #
So many people screamed "FAKE!" over the last round of sneaked pics -- and never bothered to come out to shout "I WAS WRONG!!" Will you?

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 8:22:14 PM #
Of course there is image editing, it's a package insert. You think they can make little floating 3d text boxes hang out over top of the unit while they shoot the marketing photography?!?

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Pepper @ 3/26/2003 9:32:41 PM #
Oh, i am not doubting the possibility of a final product with these specs (and i intend on squeezing the details on the matter out of a palm rep by this weekend), what i am saying is that there is no way this picture is "real". I suppose your interpretation of real is up to you, but the way i see it that means this image will NOT be released to the public by palm. There are just too many flaws for that to be a release image. Rough draft, yes; final, no.

-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
hkklife @ 3/26/2003 9:44:58 PM #
Hey, gang...I am not trying to sound shallow at all but....I hope the rather unattractive lady on the first Zire's packaging doesn't make a return appearance on tis unit's box. Speaking of which, I wonder if Palm will continue their blister pack thing or go with a conventional box.

I *really* hope that the Graffiti area will be backlit on this one but I really don't think we are ever going to see another backlit fixed Graffiti area, G1 or G2 or otherwise. We'll have to wait 'til VG is embraced by Palm for that one!



RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 9:57:55 PM #
Blister packed....yes

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
StudentDoc @ 3/26/2003 11:33:51 PM #
I don't know, but this is the most realistic leaked machine I have seen in a while. A couple of misspellings doesn't convince me this is fake. Not that I am saying it is real, but I just don't think you can go off of a couple of small errors or even photoshop-added screens. Look at the SJ-33 picture that Sony released that shows a virtual graffiti area on a machine that has been released. Sometimes the people putting together the pictures of a unit for marketing or to show at a meeting don't get everything right--that doesn't mean the machine doesn't exist. (This looks more like an internal kind of document to me anyway.) I know when I worked for IBM, we would get mockups for new ThinkPads that looked nothing like the final product, documents from Japan full of English mistakes, and pictures that would take parts from one machine and stick them on another machine to convey an idea. The customers never saw these things; they were just for the internal US group to get an idea of what TP engineering in the US and Japan were working on.

Of course, maybe I just want to believe it. I want to upgrade my Clie T615 and I don't want a 3lb., folding brick with a keyboard, 5 Megapixel camera, and a toaster with a 45 minute battery life. Also, SD would be nice instead of Memory Schtick. Since Sony doesn't seem to understand this, I am hoping Palm does.

Just my own opinion.

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 11:58:10 PM #
This picture came directly out of the packaging. The spelling error in "Infared" Palm simply missed, the "camora" is simply your error, it plainly saya Camera. I do not know if they are going to correct this error before mass release. But I can tell you this is a piece of material that came directly out of the blisterpack of a customer acceptance build. I have seen and played with these units personaly. I know it is not a "Hoax" or "Fake" as some would call it. And you will see it as well in a fairly short amount of time, I'm thinking mid-april at the latest.

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Altema @ 3/27/2003 12:25:29 AM #
"i intend on squeezing the details on the matter out of a palm rep by this weekend"

Pepper, while you have the rep cornered, ask about the T|T2 for me... My kids were going to get me an upgrade and I've been waiting since January!


RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
cypher76 @ 3/27/2003 2:29:52 AM #
"The spelling error in "Infared" Palm simply missed, the "camora" is simply your error, it plainly saya Camera."

Actually, if you'd look at the image with a program like Photoshop (as I just did to fulfill my own curiosity), it's rather clear that it is indeed an "o" instead of an "e" in "camora". Here's the pic zoomed in and sharpened:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?C2E421BF3

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 3:01:11 AM #
I'm affraid I'm goin to have to disagree. I hold the actuall source material in my hand, it is an E, bar none. I don't care what your photoshoping reveals, the reason for alot of the distortion in the image is becase it is an digital picture of a package insert, and this particular insert is warped. But, it is still an E.

Am I the Man? The man I am.
RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Timothy Rapson @ 3/27/2003 7:54:25 AM #
You ARE the Man!


RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
Pepper @ 3/27/2003 5:16:50 PM #
Altema: sorry, i dont intend on working out the details of a T|T's cusin right now. Its a lot easier to get the info on low to mid range stuff than the high end stuff. Probly cause the people figure that if its low end its less likely to get plastered all over the net. Dont ask me about their logic... all i do is try to maximize their info

-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
meckter_67 @ 4/4/2003 8:52:17 PM #
Well everyone will see the truth shortly....I was watching them pack these yesterday. Pack as in going out the door to the customer, and the insert still says Infared....PBD would have mentioned it but he's really really busy these days...

Meckter

RE: Why I suspect its a fake...
mikecane @ 4/5/2003 6:56:36 AM #
Did any fall off the truck? Ahem...

Were any unwrapped so you could try the camera firsthand? I hope those pictures are an anomaly and that the camera is as good as the second-gen eyemodule from IDEO. If the camera is as bad as those half-a**ed efforts from Kodak, it'll be another nail in Palm's suicidal coffin...

See eyemodule samples here --

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2001/03/23/qt_authoring.html

The camera

palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:14:11 PM #
The camera does indeed slide out, the aluminum back side slides down to reveal the lens, and on the screen side of the unit, the lower part of the "back" reveals a completely different button to operate the camera. When the camera lens is exposed, the unit automatically goes into "camera" mode.

RE: The camera
Timothy Rapson @ 3/27/2003 8:02:19 AM #
Ah, so the camera slides out. Great. I may get some of these Zires for the family, even though they don't have VG.

By the way Dropper. YOU DA MAN!

All the goodies

palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:43:39 PM #
Included in the package.
The "71" itsself
USB HotSync Cradle
Carrying Case
Normal base software apps + Palm Photos
Desktop software
Software Essentials CD
-RealOne Mobile Player
-Kinoma Video Player and Producer
-Adobe Acrobat Reader for Palm OS
-and some more crap

SIZE N WEIGHT
4.5 x 2.9 x 7 in 5.3 oz

MEMORY
16MB(13 MB usable)

OS
Palm OS v5.2.1

SCREEN
320 x 320 Transflective TFT color display, 65,000 colors

CAMERA
640 x 480 max. res.

EXPANSION
Built in dual expansion supports SD and MMC

PROCESSOR
Texas Ins. OMAP (ARM based)


Thats all I've got. Believe me this is not made up, for all you sceptics.
There is a slight delay right now in the production of the unit, so it won't see daylight as soon as I thought. And from everything I'm hearing, it will most likely be on the $250 end of the scale.

RE: All the goodies
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 7:52:14 PM #
oh yeah, Mp3 software as well

RE: All the goodies
Foo Fighter @ 3/26/2003 9:50:44 PM #
Well I have no way of knowing for sure whether you REALLY do have "insider" info on this product, but I sure as hell hope you're right about the screen being Transflective.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: All the goodies
helf @ 3/26/2003 9:55:36 PM #
Nice. Im'm deffinitly getting one. Been waiting for a palm like this to upgrade to. :)

RE: All the goodies
helf @ 3/26/2003 9:56:57 PM #
Another thing. What it so great about transflective??? From what I've seen, they aren't all that good.

RE: All the goodies
StudentDoc @ 3/26/2003 11:30:55 PM #
palm dropper

Any idea if it will be able to record voice memos?

RE: All the goodies
BlueAnon @ 3/26/2003 11:34:41 PM #
Real Player? wow, talking about ad-ware.
RE: All the goodies
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/26/2003 11:54:53 PM #
You can't record voice on it. No mic or jack for one. Too bad too, but for the price, you can't have eveything.

RE: All the goodies
ptc @ 3/27/2003 1:01:55 AM #
Palm Bomb Dropper:

Why 71? What does the 71 stand for???

_________
Paul C.

Battery
XScale @ 3/27/2003 1:18:28 AM #
What kind of battery are we talking here?

RE: All the goodies
chrismentzer @ 3/27/2003 1:37:07 AM #
palm_bomb_dropper, Do you also have a release date for this bad boy?

RE: All the goodies
Reighn @ 3/27/2003 2:53:53 AM #
71,good question, why did they call it "panther" before that. I do not know. As far as release, I don't know a release date, but they won't let me have mine untill they start high volume production, which should be monday of next week, so, they will begin shipping out that afternoon, as to how long they will sit on stockroom shelves before they, IMHO, fly off the store shelves, I would have to say mid-april at the latest.

I speak.....no..type....the truth
RE: All the goodies
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 3:04:43 AM #
Reighn, who are you, get away your stealing my scoop. Find another board to post your ramblings on.

Am I the Man? The man I am.
RE: All the goodies
mikecane @ 3/27/2003 7:45:22 AM #
Nice work. If I decide to upgrade my lowly mono CLIE S320 and stay with PalmOS one more time, this is most likely the one I'd get (of all models now available).

Hey, p_b_d -- what's up with that Date Book screen?! Did Palm SG (or S) really add all that color to the app? (Or is this just another marketeer's cruel mock-up?)

Hell, even if the stylus is plastic, please tell me it is still BETTER than that damn toothpick all CLIEs now ship with!

And, if you actually tried this thing, how well did the camera app integrate with the OS? Can you plop photos into Address too?

And Palm is going to allow this to compete with the Tungsten
jblodgett @ 3/27/2003 10:13:25 AM #
Correct me if I am wrong, but this new Zire has everything the Tungsten does (and then some) and costs LESS??

Is Palm planning to drop the price of their Tungsten T line significantly?? Because they'll never sell another one if this Zire is released at $250.

RE: All the goodies
Scott R @ 3/27/2003 10:47:21 AM #
"Correct me if I am wrong, but this new Zire has everything the Tungsten does (and then some) and costs LESS??

Is Palm planning to drop the price of their Tungsten T line significantly?? Because they'll never sell another one if this Zire is released at $250."

You're wrong. ;)

The TT has a metal body and collapses into a shorter device. The TT also has Bluetooth and comes bundled with DTG, which is at least $40, right? This device comes bundled with a photo viewer app (probably developed in-house) and a camera. So, I don't think the price difference is unreasonable considering that the metal body, compact size, and bluetooth of the TT will appeal to business users (who are used to spending more money).

Scott

RE: All the goodies
jblodgett @ 3/27/2003 10:52:00 AM #
Scott--

Bomb dropper already said the Zire comes in an aluminum case. Last time I checked, aluminum is a metal.

Bluetooth is worthless to me, as is the silly slider. Certainly not worth $150 price difference.

RE: All the goodies
jblodgett @ 3/27/2003 10:56:15 AM #
Let me also add-- I am in business, and spending more money for a inferior product- is very poor business.
RE: All the goodies
JKingGrim @ 3/27/2003 3:11:50 PM #
>>Hey, p_b_d -- what's up with that Date Book screen?! Did Palm SG (or S) really add all that color to the app? (Or is this just another marketeer's cruel mock-up?)<<

All color PDAs can do that. On OS4.x, 3rd party solutions do it. On OS5.x, it is built into the prefs.

RE: All the goodies
bcombee @ 3/27/2003 5:07:27 PM #
Actually, PalmSource provided a theme capability in their base platform on Palm OS 5, but so far, neither Palm SG or Sony has shipped with this pref panel. If this device uses OS 5.2, then it looks likely that it will support this panel, or at least something like it.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: All the goodies
mikecane @ 3/27/2003 5:13:07 PM #
Well, I can't find it in the current Tung T, so that's why I had to ask. And, of course, since I'm still using a Palm OS 4.x *mono* CLIE S320, all colors are pretty much the same on it... sigh...

RE: All the goodies
Scott R @ 3/27/2003 9:36:15 PM #
"Bomb dropper already said the Zire comes in an aluminum case. Last time I checked, aluminum is a metal."

Sorry, I guess I missed that one.


"Bluetooth is worthless to me, as is the silly slider. Certainly not worth $150 price difference.

Let me also add-- I am in business, and spending more money for a inferior product- is very poor business."

With all due respect, the fact that bluetooth is useless to YOU, doesn't really amount to much. I don't think Palm designs their devices just for you. The fact is that a lot of people DO want bluetooth. In fact, Palm once stated that all of their new devices would have some form of wireless, but costs seem to be preventing them from accomplishing that. Until BT becomes standard in ALL Palm devices, that nifty app they developed for sharing/rating apps you have installed on your device won't become a part of the core experience. On a side note, what does "I am in business" mean, anyway? Aren't we all (except for those out of work, of course)?

In any case, I like that "useless slider", because it makes the device more compact. So, I don't care about the slider, per se, just the end result. I also like the big nav pad better than that joystick, but I'll have to hold off my final opinion until I've actually had a chance to play with one first hand.

Scott

Looks like a Zire mated with a Sony T600 painted TT color

Timothy Rapson @ 3/26/2003 10:17:38 PM #
I hope it doesn't have that odd rounded back of the Zire. Other than that, I like it and think it shows that the Palm OS still have a LOT of variety.

Then again, it may mean the end of the whole Palm M line for good. So, we would have the two Zires and the two Tungstens and the 23 Sony models. Oh, Treo is supposed to have a new model out this Summer too. I guess there is still some real variety of Palm OS models to choose from.

The camera at this price point ($250-300) would be stunning. I also want to note that while Sony seems to never have inventory left over, Palm has always made so many of all their models that 6 months after they ship initially, they are almost always available for exactly 1/2 of what they listed for new. So, $135-150 for this by Thanksgiving? Wow, that would be some deal.

Stealing my image???

palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 12:14:57 AM #
Hey, Palminfocenter.com, thanks for stealing my image. You could have e-mailed me and asked, I would have said yes.

Award?

palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 3:07:05 AM #
So, when ever this all pans out, and everything I've said is true, especially if they leave the "infared" typo in there, do I get some kind of award, like, at least from now on when I post something, people won't come in and say, "Oh, it's a fake, he photoshopped it."

That would be a great award, the "no doubting" award.


Just wait, you will all see.

Am I the Man? The man I am.

RE: Award?
glennmarclee @ 3/27/2003 7:19:10 AM #
no award for you but a new palm for everyone i hope..its great to see something like this and you say around mid april..great! something new before christmas for me..oh joy..anyway if you do get more pictures..post em up for all of us..thanks

you laugh at me cause i'm different... i laugh cause you are all the same...

hmmm come to think of it

glennmarclee @ 3/27/2003 7:21:49 AM #
but really..if you just consider the size of the lens to the overall width of the palm..then the lens must be one big ding dong.. kinda looks like the back of a N7650 with the top cut off and the bottom just recoloured.. but there aint no harm in hoping it might be the real deal...oh why doesnt palm just release it now...i cant wait.

you laugh at me cause i'm different... i laugh cause you are all the same...

Another confirmation of the device as pictured

PixelPusher @ 3/27/2003 1:48:45 PM #
http://www.npug.com has a post where a user confirms that the device is as pictured. (Said he saw it.)

I hope this isn't a hoax.

-Eric

ummm
nrosser @ 3/27/2003 2:17:49 PM #
Go with .org on that last post, unless you want to join a gym in Newport...

RE: Another confirmation of the device as pictured
PixelPusher @ 3/27/2003 6:44:48 PM #
Dang! My bad. Sorry about that. Yes it should be http://www.npug.org

-Eric

The fact of the matter.

palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 2:33:03 PM #
Some of you seem to think that I have posted this information for your approval, or to pick and choose from which features you'd like to see on the product.

Well, please allow me to retort.

I posted this information because it is all 100% factual. This product is REAL. This product will be on shelves by the end of April. All the specs I have listed are the actual specs for the product, the Zire 71, not the "Zire Z1" or anything else.

So, I hope all you doubters out there have a taste for Crow.

Am I the Man? The man I am.

RE: The fact of the matter.
mikecane @ 3/27/2003 5:14:28 PM #
I never doubted you. Let that count for something... or not!

I can't wait to try this baby.

RE: The fact of the matter.
jblodgett @ 3/27/2003 5:32:13 PM #
With all due respect, you are posting completely anonymously on a message board. Credibility is strained here from the very beginning.

That being said, the device you have provided pictures of looks nice. I'll look forward to the official release from palm.

RE: The fact of the matter.
mikecane @ 3/27/2003 5:47:24 PM #
Hello! You want he should say to Palm, "Hey, kids! All that trust you put in me -- nyah! nyah!"

We don't need to know his name. Right now, just him Da Man.

RE: The fact of the matter.
Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 9:18:03 PM #
> "Credibility is strained here from the very beginning."

Hell....we are ALL anonymous on some level. For all you know I'm a 300lb Jewish woman from Brooklyn, living on welfare with 9 kids. Having a nickname like "Foo Fighter" or "jblodgett" doesn't make us any more or less credible than "Palm_Bomb_Dropper1".

Normally I would give this gentleman (or lady as the case may be) a thorough interrogation to determine his/her legitimacy. But the information provided does seem quite logical in the grand scheme of things. So, I'll go out on a limb here and accept that he/she really IS a credible source.

Of course, if this proves to be a hoax, I'm going to bring the forces of hell upon poor Palm_Bomd_dropper. And hell hath no furry like a PDA user scorned! ;)

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: The fact of the matter.
Scott R @ 3/27/2003 9:42:48 PM #
"Hell....we are ALL anonymous on some level. For all you know I'm a 300lb Jewish woman from Brooklyn, living on welfare with 9 kids."

Yes, but some of us know better. Some of us know that you're real name sounds like a TV reporter. ;)

Scott

RE: The fact of the matter.
Timothy Rapson @ 3/28/2003 8:47:06 PM #
Palm dropper, You ROCK!

So, when are we going to get something from Palm that is the size of the M515 with the complete feature set of the Sony NZ90 for $200?

PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP

cicifan @ 3/27/2003 5:48:33 PM #
about the beauty of the future of Graffiti 2.........

When PalmOS goes on numerous devices AROUND THE WORLD as in China it will allow the CHINAMAN to write in his own language in his own alphabet not graffiti.

think big
think longterm

they have done the right thing going to graffiti 2 no matter what the heaven with ze-rocks.

good luck

RE: PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP
rmhurdman @ 3/28/2003 8:26:58 AM #
Maybe you can explain how Graffiti 2 will allow users who use languages with other scripts to enter data? I am very sceptical that it will improve anything for Chinese and Korean users who have no alphabet or users using Cyrillic or Turkish. Japanese users probably wouldn't be thrilled to be restricted to using Kana characters.
I think it'll be a while before Palm releases system software that enables all types of character input.

RE: PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP
cyruski @ 3/30/2003 2:58:14 AM #
turkish is not an issue at all. we have a few extra accented characthers in our alphabet, otherwise it's standard latin. there is built-in support for writing those characthers in palms sold in turkey.

Just a little more info, on something not Zire 71

palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 7:19:21 PM #
All I have to say for right now is "Montana", all of you who have access to those inventory systems keep a look out for that. One more time "Montana". Think higher end.

Am I the Man? The man I am.
RE: Just a little more info, on something not Zire 71
mikecane @ 3/27/2003 7:40:09 PM #
Montana, eh? Nouveau Tungsten, huh? Perhaps with 320x480? Eh? Eh? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink...

RE: Just a little more info, on something not Zire 71
JKingGrim @ 3/27/2003 8:02:57 PM #
Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld! Veld!

Am I right?

Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C

onlypalm4me @ 3/27/2003 9:10:11 PM #
I work for one of the major office supply stores and the Palm Zire 71 & the Tungsten C have come been put into our system here's the info:

Palm Zire 71 $299.99
SKU: 20339340
Model: P80720US

16MB Memory
Built in Camera 640 x 480 res
320 x 320 High res Color Screen
Palm OS 5.2.1
Media Capable MP3 Video Games
TI Arm Processor
Dual Expansion, i.e. SD slot and Universal Connector

Palm Tungsten C $499.99
SKU: 20339313
Model: P80900US

64MB Memory
Intel 400 Mhz Processor
Palm OS 5.2.1
320 x 320 High Res Color Screen
Built in Wi-Fi 802.11
Dual Expansion, i.e. SD slot and Universal Connector

I hope this info helps you out.

Palm is the only PDA

RE: Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C
Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 9:37:58 PM #
What type of display does the Tungsten C use, Reflective or Transflective? Someone else here claims the Zire 71 uses a Transflective LCD. If that's true, I would assume the TC uses this as well.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C
Scott R @ 3/27/2003 9:45:25 PM #
I think it's interesting that they seem to want to market this for game playing. That's not a bad idea. OS5/ARM, 320x320, and a joystick could make for a great game device. But the sad fact is that this device is still poorly designed for comfortable game playing. This device (and all PDAs - Palm OS devices and PPC OS devices) have the joypad (or joystick in this case) mounted in the center (bad). They also have these joypads mounted right along the bottom of the device. Come on, people, take a look at the 6-year-old (or whatever it is) B&W Gameboy and learn from that. Mounting the joypad in the right place and allowing for a decent palm-rest will make a world of difference in usability.

Scott

RE: Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C
kevdo @ 3/27/2003 10:42:22 PM #
>Mounting the joypad in the right place

I would say the center IS the right place. Sure, it doesn't lend itself to playing games that require more than two buttons to be pressed, but how many of those are there (doesn't the gameboy only have two buttons?).

Having it in the center would allow you to use either hand for the joystick/pad while at the same time being backwards compatible with older Palm applications that want an up/down button there.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C
XScale @ 3/27/2003 11:40:12 PM #
Will Tungsten C have the now outdated PXA250 Intel processor or the newer PXA255 with the higher bus speed?

RE: Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C
guitarchick @ 3/27/2003 11:52:00 PM #
64MB of RAM on the Tungsten C...CROIKEY! I could use that. It would be my ideal pda if only...no thumbboard! I hate thumbboards..wah, wah.

Rotated display would make the joystick perfect!
PixelPusher @ 3/28/2003 8:20:46 AM #
If the game companies supported rotated displays, the joy stick would be in a perfect position for your left or right thumb. Hopefully this will be the case.

However the 64mb or ram and WiFi support means I'll probably be getting the T|C rather than the Z71.

I only wish this units were 320x480 instead of 320x320 (Virtual Grafiti).

-Eric

Rotate!
Fammy @ 3/28/2003 9:34:34 AM #
Yes, but if you rotated the display the button would be in the wrong spot!

_____
Fammy
RE: Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C
bcombee @ 3/28/2003 1:51:34 PM #
Intel has stopped producing the XScale PA250 chip, only producing the PA255 and newer XScale devices. From what I've seen, Intel told their partners this several months ago, so I'd assume that if production is current on the T|C, its using a PA255, especially since the two chips are physically and electrically compatible.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: Some Specs on the Palm Zire 71 & Tungsten C
PixelPusher @ 3/28/2003 9:44:04 PM #
Fammy,

If I hold my M505 sideways the up/down buttons are right under my thumb. So the joystick would do the same and be in the perfect position for gaming.

Now the other buttons might be a problem since all button pushing would have to be done with your thumb or your third hand. Never mind ... this might not work after all.

-Eric

A little more for you all

palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 10:34:41 PM #
If you want, go here

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubgallery.asp?id_=137340

These are images of the actual product, now, if you look closely in the reflections you can see that these imgaes were taken with another Zire71, keep in mind the lighting was horrible. But just so you can all see how the little darling opens and closes. It's actually very sturdy and seems quite well assembled. I believe that the case is completely metal, but the blue portion is seemingly very low grade aluminum.

Also the model number for this product is the m200. Just thought I'd add that in.

Am I the Man? The man I am.

RE: A little more for you all
kevdo @ 3/27/2003 10:45:39 PM #
>Am I the Man? The man I am.

Okay, we get it. A little humility please. You've provided us with a GREAT GREAT scoop and we all appreciate it. But, enough already.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: A little more for you all
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/27/2003 10:53:12 PM #
sorry, but it's my signature...

--------------------------------------
Am I the Man? The man I am.
RE: A little more for you all
Foo Fighter @ 3/27/2003 11:09:47 PM #
Wow! You've sold me. Are there any pics with the screen on?

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: A little more for you all
LiveFaith @ 3/28/2003 12:13:01 AM #
I hope you don't work for Palm ... that 4th pic already narrows you down to race and looks like gender. You have to be careful what reflects back when takin' pics of a PDA. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: A little more for you all
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/28/2003 12:31:50 AM #
Uh huh, what are you suggesting, they will photo enhance the reflection and get my finger prints. I can see the "Wanted" description now.

White, with at least 2 fingers. Reward offered for information.

Good thing I don't work for Palm eh. Or do I????

--------------------------------------
Am I the Man? The man I am.

RE: A little more for you all
kidA @ 3/28/2003 12:41:54 AM #
you've sold me PDB. sweet. i'd like to see some photo's from the side to see how thick this thing is. i imagine it can't be too thin (or light, for that matter) with the big metal back. of course, if there's a way to attach a good flip cover for the screen, you might never need to a case.

RE: A little more for you all
Foo Fighter @ 3/28/2003 1:01:52 AM #
And did anyone else notice from the reflection that he used another Zire 71 to take these pictures?

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: A little more for you all
Foo Fighter @ 3/28/2003 1:03:06 AM #
Oh damn it! I didn't read his post, he alread mentioned that. Doh! Sorry, my bad.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: A little more for you all
Foo Fighter @ 3/28/2003 1:04:41 AM #
Palm_Bomb_dropper, does this unit come with a flip cover? Could you show us some pics of screen powered on, and some side shots to illustrate thickness would be most welcome. Thanks.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs
RE: A little more for you all
Foo Fighter @ 3/28/2003 1:09:11 AM #
Another question: Is the front portion of the body Aluminum as well, or just the back?

How would you say the screen compares to other competing handhelds, say the HP 1910 for example?

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: A little more for you all
LiveFaith @ 3/28/2003 1:40:29 AM #
PBD, if the 71 camera gets fingerprints, then I'm gonna pre-order right now.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: A little more for you all
Scott R @ 3/28/2003 10:35:26 AM #
"if you look closely in the reflections you can see that these imgaes were taken with another Zire71, keep in mind the lighting was horrible."

Well that doesn't bode well. Those pictures are absolutely awful. The main problem is not with lighting but sharpness. Color quality and brightness appear to be good, but if it can't take clearer pictures than those, I certainly won't be interested.

Other thoughts: That aluminum back looks kinda strange. Looks too shiny (like chrome). Reminds me of the metal plating manufacturers use on the inside of their devices for RF shielding.

Scott

RE: A little more for you all
Scott R @ 3/28/2003 10:42:07 AM #
A couple of other thoughts...

Farther up in this thread someone else named "Reighn" made some comments as one "in the know" and PDB quickly told him to quit stealing his scoop (or some silly nonsense). Now, PDB links to this photo album and who's name is attached to it? Reighn. Interesting (or not).

Questions:
1) When you have the device in the open position, can you use other apps besides the photo app? I'm thinking that game playing would be more comfortable in the open position because it would give you a palm rest below the joystick.

2) Does it come with a flip cover or, at least, pre-drilled holes for an optional flip cover?

Scott

RE: A little more for you all
bcombee @ 3/28/2003 1:57:16 PM #
Yesterday's PDB's profile here on PIC had a Hotmail address variation of "reighn" attached to it -- it's now a P B D variation, but this all points to PBD's handle being Reign in other contexts.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
Who knows?
Fammy @ 3/28/2003 2:01:59 PM #
I'm thinking Mr. Combee knows the answer to this whole rumor. He's just caught in your typical non-disclosure aggreement. It'd be hard to be the Palm OS Tech Lead for the biggest development platform and not have some idea of coming products.

I'm sure more of his knowledge comes on the OS side, but still. =)

Just funny irony.

_____
Fammy

RE: A little more for you all
chrismentzer @ 3/28/2003 2:03:41 PM #
>> White, with at least 2 fingers. Reward offered for >> information.

>> Good thing I don't work for Palm eh. Or do I????

Backplate looks like "Made in China", anyone know if this is the case, and how many 2 finger white are working in a plant in China??


RE: A little more for you all
gfunkmagic @ 3/28/2003 2:43:35 PM #
WOW!! Very cool! Thanx for posting those pic PBD!!

RE: A little more for you all
JKingGrim @ 3/28/2003 3:08:57 PM #
I you look closely at the third pic, you can tell it has the same crappy cover as the T|t. Palm is just trying to suck our wallets by forcing us to buy cases.

Hey Scott, That thing would not make a good rest. It is not flat. It goes in. It is not like this:
[]

It is like this:
[

Do you like my diagrams?

RE: A little more for you all
Foo Fighter @ 3/28/2003 3:17:48 PM #
> "I you look closely at the third pic, you can tell it has the same crappy cover as the T|t."

You must have better vison than I because I see no screen cover at all.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: A little more for you all
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/29/2003 11:57:19 AM #
Oh no, Reighn. It appears they are on to us... me...whatever.

--------------------------------------
Am I the Man? The man I am.
RE: A little more for you all
whitemiata @ 3/29/2003 3:50:31 PM #
PDB,

If you don't mind... could you post the actual JPG straight out of the Z1 (sans any editing/renaming/etc) for one of the shots of the front of the device? Somewhere where they can be downloaded directly.

I'm interested in seeing if a theory I have about why the pictures look so crappy is in fact true.

Thanks for this awesome scoop, by the way!

RE: A little more for you all
m0rph1n3 @ 4/16/2003 3:06:19 PM #
Ok, maybe I am being petty, but does this thing come in more colors than blue?

Not really fond of blue. And if someone has already asked this, and answered this, then sorry as I have ADD and reading takes too much time. :)

Thanks. Laterz.

-M

What about a cover for the screen?

JonAcheson @ 3/27/2003 11:29:40 PM #
OK, so the back plate is a sliding cover for the camera lens, that's pretty sharp. However, it still leaves the screen vulnerable.

What kind of cover will be available for the screen?

Jon


"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

Zire 71 photos are real

meckter_67 @ 3/28/2003 2:06:15 AM #
I can tell you for a fact that P_B_D's pictures are the real deal. And they were taken with another Zire 71 and it was in a pretty dark area. Ive had my hands on this particular product myself. Although I dont own a PDA of any kind this particular model has made me change my mind. I will be buying this one.

As far as the typo's well the 'camera' typo isnt....it clearly says camera....in the picture it isnt exactly clear but standing 12 inches from it in real life it does say camera. Infared on the other hand is a typo...my understanding is Palm is unaware of this typo (probably changed in the last few hours though) and as of 12 hours ago this was a packaging insert to be shipped.

I dont know if P_B_D really is 'The Man', but he sure is correct on this one.

Meckter



RE: Zire 71 photos are real
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/30/2003 1:59:58 PM #
Punk, I am "THE MAN" and you know it.

--------------------------------------
Am I the Man? The man I am.
RE: Zire 71 photos are real
meckter_67 @ 3/31/2003 5:40:09 AM #
Are you sure thats not Sam I am?....Sam I am, I am Sam. LOL.....still trying to figure how you got that picture out of the facility without getting caught...maybe because your teachers pet ;-)

Meckter

RE: Zire 71 photos are real
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/31/2003 11:39:07 AM #
Listen here you rolly polly little monkey, I've had about enought of your mindless dribble. Back it up, and move it out. And quit trying to steal my glory, cause we all know you work the late shift and don;t know crap.

Deal with it.



--------------------------------------
Am I the Man? The man I am.

RE: Zire 71 photos are real
meckter_67 @ 3/31/2003 3:25:58 PM #
sure Sam I mean Reighn ....wich one of your alter egos are we using today?....moma didnt give you any toys to play with when you were a kid ...surfer boy

Meckter 'late night' Vargas

RE: Zire 71 photos are real
naturefreak85 @ 3/31/2003 3:38:29 PM #
why are you trying to beat down on him......he has two different user names, some people do that if they have problems with security, they do this so they can also have different passwords or the same passwords but so no one can find all of their accounts, i dont see a single problem with what he did using two names, i know i have about 20 different yahoo accounts and also about 10 different aim names and i go on a different one each day.....does that mean i didnt get enough toys to play with when i was a kid? NO and why dont you try to use the space here for something useful, instead of bashing other members, i know i use it for a good use, stopping ppl who bash and making legitimate contributions and how does that make him a surfer boy? are you that insecure? cant get laid?

RE: Zire 71 photos are real
palm_bomb_dropper1 @ 3/31/2003 5:39:56 PM #
E A D. Figure it out Meckter.

You gonna attach your Z71 to your rocket and lauch it?
Smoke a pole.

--------------------------------------
Am I the Man? The man I am.

the man he is

glennmarclee @ 3/28/2003 9:20:24 AM #
wow bomber..those are some sweet pictures..i can hardly wait for the next scoop from you..cheeeeers!

you laugh at me cause i'm different... i laugh cause you are all the same...

Wow, the interest...

alexp @ 3/28/2003 1:47:57 PM #
When I logged on, this story had 203 comments. 203! We haven't seen this kind of interest in a handheld in a long time. Not even sure the Tungsten generated this kind of buzz. Last one I can think of off the top of my head is the Sony NR-70.

RE: Wow, the interest...
alexp @ 3/28/2003 2:09:17 PM #
OK, I stand corrected...

A quick check of the "Pictures of the Tungsten|T" story in September 2002 showed 11 pages with 428 comments.

Still, this is quite a stir we're seeing.

RE: Wow, the interest...
MJGunn @ 3/31/2003 5:27:45 PM #
Well, palm doesn't release that many handhelds, when they do, its an event ;)

They ALSO don't usually release one so.....good.

Ziremania

mikecane @ 3/29/2003 8:57:53 AM #
It's interesting, this. Which came first, the info here at PIC or this:

http://www.mobigeeks.net/e/forum/showthread.php?s=48134372ef64deb8b2fc26a76152990c&threadid=559

The Zire looks like a hot product. But I hope those pictures are blurry simply because there's no macro element. I don't think anyone would be interested in a built-in camera if it was as crappy as the clip-ons Kodak (shame on them!) made. Now Ideo's 2nd Springboard camera for the Visor -- now *that* was a camera!

RE: Ziremania
naturefreak85 @ 3/31/2003 11:37:18 AM #
um dude if you look at the date of posting on the forum it was posted on the 28th of march, clearly stolen from here! why do people do this? they stole the link from P B D whoever it is, GIVE CREDIT FOR WHAT U LEECH!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: Ziremania
naturefreak85 @ 3/31/2003 11:45:10 AM #
did a little research and the leech is........(drumroll please)......... ONLYPALM4ME compare these two comments and there is only one difference,

(from palminfocenter)
onlypalm4me @ 3/27/2003 9:10:11 PM

I work for one of the major office supply stores and the Palm Zire 71 & the Tungsten C have come been put into our system here's the info:

Palm Zire 71 $299.99
SKU: 20339340
Model: P80720US

16MB Memory
Built in Camera 640 x 480 res
320 x 320 High res Color Screen
Palm OS 5.2.1
Media Capable MP3 Video Games
TI Arm Processor
Dual Expansion, i.e. SD slot and Universal Connector

Palm Tungsten C $499.99
SKU: 20339313
Model: P80900US

64MB Memory
Intel 400 Mhz Processor
Palm OS 5.2.1
320 x 320 High Res Color Screen
Built in Wi-Fi 802.11
Dual Expansion, i.e. SD slot and Universal Connector

I hope this info helps you out.

Palm is the only PDA

from mobigeeks.net (http://makeashorterlink.com/?E12421804)

I work for one of the major office supply stores and the Palm Zire 71 & the Tungsten C have come been put into our system here's the info:

Palm Zire 71 $299.99
SKU: 20339340
Model: P80720US

16MB Memory
Built in Camera 640 x 480 res
320 x 320 High res Color Screen
Palm OS 5.2.1
Media Capable MP3 Video Games
TI Arm Processor
Dual Expansion, i.e. SD slot and Universal Connector

Palm Tungsten C $499.99
SKU: 20339313
Model: P80900US

64MB Memory
Intel 400 Mhz Processor
Palm OS 5.2.1
320 x 320 High Res Color Screen
Built in Wi-Fi 802.11
Dual Expansion, i.e. SD slot and Universal Connector

Pictures Zire Z 71
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbro...ldername=Photos

looks like we found our leech not giving credit where credit is due


RE: Ziremania
onlypalm4me @ 4/1/2003 3:39:34 PM #
EXCUSE ME!!!

I am not a leech!!!!
I typed those comments myself! I did not steal this info. And the link to the phots weren't they also on this site?

I would give credit to the source! I work @ officemax and the specs were downloaded in our system that day. Thank you very much

RE: Ziremania
naturefreak85 @ 4/7/2003 8:18:57 AM #
i dont doubt ur liability here in terms of what you wrote but i am mainly stating that you took the pictures that PBD/Reign owns, and put them up on another site without giving credit where credit is due, now i know i am not alone in feeling that you should give credit to him for his work

RE: Ziremania
sullyman @ 4/12/2003 12:16:01 AM #
Just had to join this site and make a comment.. I jump in frome time to time to see what you guys talk about.. and its so pathetic its unbelievable.. you have losers like p-b-d trying to make themselves heroes by announcing stuff to his "groupies" that everyone who has a real interest in Palm products has known about for months ( and a lot more accurately).. its so funny ..
Actually its sad cos I know that most on this site are genuinely interested in Palm products.
"Oh Palm dropper you rock"... "wow thx PBD".. "can I wash your car PBD?"..

PBD, you should change your signature to "I wish I was a man a man I wish I was"..

Oh and you're not even close to what Palm is doing..

$249 or BUST!

mikecane @ 3/29/2003 9:02:17 AM #
Let's start a campaign: Palm should price this new Zire at just *$249* -- it'll SLAUGHTER the competition from PPC's 1910 and V35.

Chant: CUT THE PRICE! CUT THE PRICE! CUT THE PRICE!

RE: $249 or BUST!
hotpaw4 @ 3/29/2003 3:36:59 PM #
Palm is already beating the competition in terms of overall market share. The goal is to make money (so that they can spend even more money on new product R&D, among other things).

That said, if history is any indicator, $249 is too high; the price will probably go below $200 sometime next year.

RE: $249 or BUST!
mikecane @ 3/29/2003 4:10:02 PM #
Palm could also be dead in a year, despite its market share.

Cut the profit margin on the low-end, make the fat cats in corporations pay the freight.

RE: $249 or BUST!
Foo Fighter @ 3/29/2003 7:47:30 PM #
> Palm could also be dead in a year, despite its market share.

Well said. Being the market leader doesn't make you a success story when taking a $174 million loss.

"it's better to be a pirate than join the navy." - Steve Jobs

RE: $249 or BUST!
gfunkmagic @ 3/30/2003 2:44:32 AM #
I would expect PalmSG to cut the price of the Z-71 3/4 months after release, similar to what they did with the T|T. The only problem is by then the new H1922, Clies, and Axims will be out as well. That being said, the msrp of $299 means that will be max price of this unit so one would expect to find it online much less than that in a short time. I'm just glad to see PalmSG finally offer an enticing and competitve mid-range OS 5 device to shore up it aging M series line of pda's...

RE: $249 or BUST!
mikecane @ 3/31/2003 10:15:50 AM #
Since some people Still Don't Get It, let me revise the chant:

CUT THE PRICE *NOW*! CUT THE PRICE *NOW*! CUT THE PRICE *NOW*!

RE: $249 or BUST!
hotpaw4 @ 4/2/2003 12:14:52 AM #
Haven't you heard? They're not going to cut the price, they're going to GIVE THEM AWAY, in McDonald's Happy Meals! The new CFO that "Eric the Red" hired has a new plan where they ship them at a negative margin, but make huge profits on the volume.

Oh wait... does this message get dated in Eastern Standard Time or Pacific Standard Time?

Finally

kidA @ 3/30/2003 2:18:24 AM #
even at $299, this looks like the first time in a long time that palm will have "one-upped" anybody. the SJ33 sells for $299, runs OS 4 and is really fat and has no camera. the pocketpcs in this price range--the 1910 and the VD v35 don't have cameras, although they do have more memory. but that aside, i'd say that even at $299, palm has done a pretty good job. now if they'd just put out the same device without the camera at $199--it could be so slim and light. that would be a killer.

That IS a good idea!
JonAcheson @ 3/30/2003 9:44:05 PM #
I'm kind of concerned about the thickness of the device, to say nothing of the fact that it will still need a screen cover.

No camera, no sliding back plate = much tougher and slimmer. And probably $50 cheaper.

Jon Acheson

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Finally
MJGunn @ 3/31/2003 5:30:33 PM #
"No camera, no sliding back plate = much tougher and slimmer. And probably $50 cheaper."

Yup, I could go for this palm sans camera.....I have no need for it.

RE: Finally
helf @ 4/21/2003 9:48:28 AM #
Or take out the cam and put in a cf slot =)

Mp3???

Lo_Pro @ 3/31/2003 6:13:02 AM #
I KNOW this was probably addressed earlier, but there are 6 pages man :-))

Will this thing play Mp3's????

I'm bidding on a used Sony NR70v on ebay, and if this thing is:

1. Coming out soon

and

2. Plays Mp3's

Than, shoot, I'm getting this :-)

Anyone know???

RE: Mp3???
zpalm @ 3/31/2003 10:13:36 AM #
The posted specs say: "Media Capable MP3 Video Games" and the picture shows a stereo headphone jack, so MP3 will likely be supported by this new palm.

RE: Mp3???
mikecane @ 3/31/2003 10:14:44 AM #
Well, it has a stereo headphone jack and is bundled with Real Player... so what does that suggest?

RE: Mp3???
JKingGrim @ 3/31/2003 3:39:06 PM #
It is also bundled with Real Player and Kinoma player and producer.

RE: Mp3???
Lo_Pro @ 3/31/2003 9:24:15 PM #
SWEET!!!!!!!!!!

Fatal mistake....

Averted....for now.

I just hope it comes out soon :-))

Thanks for the replies!

Lo_Pro

I Wish....

ozz @ 3/31/2003 11:46:37 PM #
.....I just wish the Zire 71 had a voice memo feature. I know.....I can't have everything, but, if it had voice memo, I would buy one immediately. :-)

Jog dial, back button & hold switch

cypher76 @ 4/2/2003 2:32:55 PM #
Any word on what the left side of this device will look like? I have a n760 now, and I'd reluctantly be willing to switch from MS to SD, but the jog dial, back button, and hold switch are all basic requirements of a new device. If PalmSG can include these basics, then I'd gladly switch back to Palm.
RE: Jog dial, back button & hold switch
helf @ 4/3/2003 8:43:27 AM #
I'm sure it doesn't. No palm has ever had a jog dial and they seem to think only the dpad is necessary...

RE: Jog dial, back button & hold switch
ZekeSulastin @ 4/16/2003 5:28:23 PM #
Patent No. 6,546,231: Communication terminal device and rotary operation key

That is Sony's most recent patent for the Jog Dial - you can thank Sony for the device not appearing on PalmSG handhelds ...

RE: Jog dial, back button & hold switch
dustbunny44 @ 4/21/2003 1:07:19 AM #
My Handera 330 has one. Maybe Sony forced them out of business for coming to market first with their idea.... ;-).


T|T so bad?

benixau @ 4/15/2003 12:02:40 PM #
i am a new guy to the palm flame world and have a few things to add to a forum i have been watching for as long as it has existed:

Z71 (abbreviation already occuring) looks good
I want to get a T|T before the veo deal runs out
I have a T68i (dont laugh please, it is a dream phone for me)
I have a mac (you better not laugh or the hell of SJobs will befall you)
I want a palm for the next three years
I need BT

Is a T|T so bad for people like me? I think not but i need re-assuring.

Zire 71 prices on the net

s1ein @ 4/15/2003 11:19:51 PM #
Just discovered this on a German site:
http://www.cosew.de/Systeme%20Terminplaner_1.html

Looks like the Zire 71 will sell for 335Euro. Since prices are varying between countries, it is maybe more relevant to notice the price relative to some other models on that website:

0.93 x CLIE PEG-T625C/CLIE PEG-SJ33
1.30 x CLIE PEG-SJ22
0.72 x Palm TUNGSTEN T
2.77 x Palm ZIRE
0.83 x iPAQ H1915

If this holds true it will be aro. 275USD here in Hong Kong. The Grafitti field of my trusted Vx is slowly disintegrating, I'LL BE GETTING ONE!!

Zire 71

cunads @ 4/19/2003 6:32:52 PM #
I bought a ZIRE 71 at Best Buy in Milwaukee today (Northridge Mall). By all the postings, it seems like nobody has one yet. I'm not a know it all about PDAs

My key comment is that I was convinced I would only get a pda with a keyboard (TG-50). But Graffiti 2 is really easy

What else can I say:

World Clock application is great!
No Microphone (bummer)
Pretty good screen
Camera lens protected by the metal housing (as you slide down the back cover, you expose the lens on the Zire71.
Cheap stylus

Despite that, it's really fun to be able to take pictures with my PDA - my 76 year old grandomther loved it. At 299 it might be a bit pricey - especially with the TT available for 399 with it's free camera add-on....

cuands@mac.com

RE: Zire 71
ZekeSulastin @ 4/19/2003 7:56:06 PM #
Umm - it is almost the same as the T|T, minus the mic and Bluetooth ... unless you use those two things a lot, it is a price breakthrough ...

RE: Zire 71
ZekeSulastin @ 4/19/2003 7:57:43 PM #
Gaah! Where's the edit post feature when you need it ...

The Z-71 isn't on their website.

I eat my words ...
ZekeSulastin @ 4/19/2003 9:55:18 PM #
See topic ...

I want a Z-71 ...

RE: Zire 71
tmc2 @ 4/21/2003 3:55:32 PM #
I thought it was some sort of mistake. I actually got to try the Zire 71 Saturday at Office Max. It's thicker than the 500s. Good pictures, easier to manage with one hand than is the Tungsten|T. I just couldn't figure out where the camera was. I, also, like the new Graffiti 2. I thought it would be a problem since I'm so used to the first one; I took to it very quickly and prefer it to a keyboard.

None of the other stores had it though, including Best Buy. And, I asked the General Manager of CompUSA and he said it hadn't been released yet. Are these couple of stores jumping the gun?

RE: Zire 71
mikecane @ 4/21/2003 10:49:22 PM #
Yes. And thank god they are jumping the gun!! Now if only more people would report on these things for us restricted to stores that follow the rules!

RE: Zire 71
Puppy @ 4/22/2003 10:13:26 PM #
So if people have actually seen it...is the screen reflective, or transflective? And it really dosen't have a voice memo function!?! (That's nuts!)

I'm not interested if it's a reflective screen. Can't stand those (like on the Tungsten T). But if they've finally switched to transflective, I guess it's not bad, for the price. Though the lack of voice memo hurts it, and I doubt it's as capable for media stuff as Sony's NX series.

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