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Comments on: Bluetooth and WiFi SD & Memory Sticks in Development

Hagiwara Sys-Com, a Japanese semiconductor company, have announced they are developing four wireless cards for Palm OS devices. The company plans to release both Secure Digital (SD) and Memory Stick (MS) Bluetooth and WiFi cards this summer.
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Plus Memory

Hotoru @ 3/28/2003 4:22:01 PM #
Wonder if any of these will also have memory included... would be nice.. (1st post woo hoo:)

Hotoru

RE: Plus Memory
thd @ 3/31/2003 9:29:24 AM #
I talked to them on CeBit in Hannover and the answer is NO. No included Memory. Also the samples they showed over there were in an very early stage. Only the housing, nothing inside.

The only company I know, that will release "dual-use" SD-Cards in the near future is Toshiba. But the timetable seems to have shifted from summer to end of this year.

TD

RE: Plus Memory
peitron @ 3/31/2003 11:28:08 AM #
Wasn't SanDisk going to put out dual memory/wi-fi SD cards this year too?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
"Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" - Groucho Marx
RE: Plus Memory
thd @ 4/1/2003 1:33:34 AM #
Yes, but this is only a CF-Card. I don't know if they also plan a SD-Card. On CES in Las Vegas nobody on the Sandisk booth knew/told me about it.

Worth waiting for?

skennedy1217 @ 3/28/2003 4:18:16 PM #
Considering that 1)it wouldn't be smart to carry my T|T in my pocket with the SD card inserted (for fear of breaking off the antenna); and 2) the fact that carrying the card in a separate case would be just another thing to lose...it may be better to just upgrade to the soon to be released T|C (which purportedly has integrated Wi-Fi).

_____________________
m100 ==> m500 ==> T|T
RE: Worth waiting for?
skennedy1217 @ 3/28/2003 4:25:01 PM #
Too bad that BT isn't more popular in the States. Since data transmission is limited by bandwith anyway, the BT transfer speeds are more than adequate (for now). Plus you don't have these big antenna things to worry about. Wi-Fi's real benefit, I suppose, is range and not so much speed.

_____________________
m100 ==> m500 ==> T|T
RE: Worth waiting for?
Morph @ 3/28/2003 4:53:40 PM #
i agree the bluetooth has the better speed over the 2. I'm curious how much power the Wi-FI would suck up as well. Bluetooth is also better on the battery in comparison

************************************************

For what shall it profit a man if he were to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul.

RE: Worth waiting for?
ldrolez @ 3/28/2003 5:36:15 PM #
> I'm curious how much power the Wi-FI would suck up as well.

It's on their web site: they say 300mA !!!
As the TT battery has 900mAh, and since the TT already sucks 150mA, this should leave 2 hours to play with your WiFi palm ! Great ! (WiFi is definitly not for Palms... :(

RE: Worth waiting for?
cbowers @ 3/28/2003 8:27:04 PM #
"Considering that 1)it wouldn't be smart to carry my T|T in my pocket with the SD card inserted (for fear of breaking off the antenna"

Again this gets to the root of the SD form factor vs. CF. The portion that fits in the slot is so small that it leaves more of the device to fit externally. There's nothing magical about SD and it's ability to have micro-electronics crammed into it.

Compare Margi's Presenter-to-go in CF, SD, and MS versions. The CF version is the smallest by far, and doesn't even leave that much externally beyond the connector.

Again with WiFi, the typical size of Symbol, Intel, Sony, Socket (all the same rebadged card) leaves only a small portion of the card externally. The Socket CF bluetooth card isn't any smaller than the CF WiFi card.

Less so even than the Palm/Toshiba BlueTooth card (more area perhaps but less protrusion).

The external portion of CF cards is wide but narrow and thus not a breakage issue. SD accessories are narrow and thus the external portion is larger and sticks out farther. Indeed one is right to consider the leverage that can be applied to the point of breakage.

As for power, again, this depends on the card. There are SD Bluetooth cards including Palm branded ones that draw 150mA during transmit. And there are low power CF WiFi cards. The low power cards can, as mine does, idle at 11mA, and transfer at 150mA-170mA. Without power saving enabled, yes the cards can consume twice that.

But to say that WiFi isn't for PalmOS devices is to promote myth.

TrgPro's running on AA's have used the Symbol card, and one company was even renting them out.

HandEra 330 owners have reported 6 hours of continuous ping with the Symbol CF WiFi card.

It will be good to have the Tungsten C out with it built in to finally put this anti-WiFi bashing to bed.

With WiFi and even WiFi + BlueTooth built in to PocketPC models such as the Toshiba e7xx line and the Compaq H54xx line, surely the more efficient PalmOS will only excel at this in comparison.

It be nice to see less naysaying here. Perhaps half the reason our PalmOS hardware (including the Tungsten T) isn't as capable yet as PocketPC hardware is the internal self-doubting. It's been done on other platforms, and less well that PalmOS do it. So let's get doing it, and quit giving portions of the marketplace away uncontested to PocketPC and Zaurus/Linux. There's some reasons we don't have that last 30%, and one of them is PalmOS licencess won't make comparable hardware, and get the expansion options sorted out. I mean come on, with Handera in limbo, Handspring having dropped Springboard, and Palm and Sony trying to find their way with the comparatively immature SD and MS, in many ways we're slipping back into 1999.

As for WiFi, before saying it's not for PalmOS, ask a happy HandEra owner about WiFi and PalmOS. Or any of the Developers who took one of the free loaners (HandEra 330 and Symbol WiFi card) for a spin at the last PalmSource developers conference.

Wi-Fi SD Cards Delayed Until Mid-Year
pdangel @ 3/31/2003 2:25:32 AM #
Wi-Fi SD Cards Delayed Until Mid-Year
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C16C21604

Palm™ Bluetooth™ Card software for the Palm Tungsten™ W (OS 4.1)
http://www.palm.com/support/downloads/tungstenwBT.html
http://www.palm.com/support/downloads/tungstenwBT_legal.html

Sony has released the Mobile Connection Wizard, a desktop application that helps users to configure wireless settings for their Clie handheld. To connect to a Bluetooth-enabled phone, users just need to specify their wireless carrier and phone model in the desktop app then complete the device pairing through a Mobile Manager application on the handheld. Setting up a Wi-Fi connection is equally simple. The Mobile Manager also makes it easy to switch between Bluetooth and Wi-Fi wireless connections.
http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/support/clie/conwiz/softupdates/index.html

Incisor Bluetooth NewsLetter (Official BT Newsletter)
http://www.click.co.uk/inc53mar03.pdf
http://www.click.co.uk/incisor.htm (older editions)



"There are 2 kind of people my friend....those with wires and those without"

Color and size

Fammy @ 3/28/2003 4:23:32 PM #
White? Who wants a white card?

One thing the Memory Stick has over the Secure Digital card is the support the extra length of the card gives to bulky attachments hanging out the top of a PDA. Man, that SD WiFi card looks like it could snap in two.

Does the SD Blue tooth fit entirely into the device? It appears shorter than the Toshiba/Palm model. If so, that's the card for me!

_____
Fammy

RE: Color and size
masitti @ 3/28/2003 6:27:00 PM #
By the looks, the top Bluetooth logo will stick out. Not bad.

------------------------
Mario Masitti
http://community.webshots.com/user/mariowc
RE: Color and size
Appleman @ 3/29/2003 3:50:46 AM #
One thing the Memory Stick has over the Secure Digital card is the support the extra length of the card gives to bulky attachments hanging out the top of a PDA.

Huh? The SD card is longer than the Memory Stick.

RE: Color and size
Fammy @ 3/29/2003 9:02:08 AM #
One thing the Memory Stick has over the Secure Digital card is the support the extra length of the [Memory Stick] gives to bulky attachments hanging out the top of a PDA.

_____
Fammy
RE: Color and size
katunka89 @ 3/29/2003 11:58:34 PM #
SD Cards are not longer than MS ones.
Get your facts right.

Katunka----also known as slim devil
RE: Color and size
iain.collins @ 4/1/2003 9:49:13 AM #
Obviously what the poster meant was "they stick out a lot more".

Which it is the case - the SD ones are flimsy and stick out way to far and I went through TWO of those on my m500.

My MS Bluetooth card is very sturdy.

Though I'd bet this one sticks out too - the design of the Sony Bluetooth MS is misleading in that it sticks out more than you think it would just by looking at it.

The extra length in memory stick is definately an advantage in this area (and should also play a big factor in the untimate capcity of both media).


Garmin iQue Compatible?

jbeedham @ 3/28/2003 9:42:38 PM #
These look awesome. I can't wait to get a Garmin iQue and I think an 802.11b card would be awesome to put in it. I'm not worried about it sticking out since the SD slot is on the top of the Garmin iQue. Any word on price?

-------------------------------------------------------
currently using Palm m125 and waiting for Garmin iQue.
RE: Garmin iQue Compatible?
gfunkmagic @ 3/31/2003 12:14:26 PM #
I see no reason why it wouldn't be compatible with the iQue. The 3600 is an OS 5 pda, so it should be compatible...

Memory Stick Wifi for OS 5 and above only??

Dtsou @ 3/28/2003 10:20:12 PM #
Most OS5 devices with a memory stick slot already have an option for WiFi, besides the TG50, but most of the devices with memory stick are using OS 4! That means the only model that can work with it is the TG50!! How about the rest of us Clie users? If they can make the SD card compatible with OS4, I don't see why they can't do that for the Memory Stick version...

RE: Memory Stick Wifi for OS 5 and above only??
creep451 @ 3/29/2003 12:38:27 AM #
It seems silly now, but once the non-clamshell
OS5 CLIEs come out, it'll be great!
First OS 5 non-clamshell is out now...
Marshall Flinkman @ 3/29/2003 7:33:08 PM #
The TG-50 (OS 5, keyboard, non-clamshell) is already out. The flip cover may block the view of the card while in the slot, but it looks like it should still function.

Dual slots?

palmrant.com @ 3/29/2003 11:08:39 AM #
Dual card slots are the answer. Let us, the consumers choose which technology we prefer and not give up the memory we need. Don't tie us down to having an antenna hanging out of our device, which won't fit in the case, just to work on documents on the card. Asking us to give up the external memory on our handhelds just to use a wireless network is like asking desktop users to run their PCs off the floppy drive (remember those days!) while their cable modems plugged in.

Dave Guenthner
http://www.palmrant.com
RE: Dual slots?
hotpaw4 @ 3/31/2003 7:09:14 AM #
Dual slots can potentially make the handheld bigger. I would prefer a large (256kB ?) built-in flash memory VFS drive, plus just one slot. Flash memory chips are small enough that some companies (Intel & TI) are even including some flash inside the processor chip package.
RE: Dual slots?
gfunkmagic @ 3/31/2003 12:08:36 PM #
Dual slots won't necessarily make a pda bigger! Why not have dual SDIO slots? Or if that is too much, then what about one SDIO and one min-SD slot (even smaller foot print)? That way you could have one slot for I/O cards and one for storage? I see lots of advantages and very few disadvatges w/dual expansion w/o sacrificing size...

Weren't we suppsoed to have this already?

dungus @ 3/29/2003 12:51:38 PM #
I've been waiting a while..

We had this:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4836

And this:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4343

The SanDisk one was supposed to be out in March. We've got one more day for it. Will it be here?

RE: Weren't we suppsoed to have this already?
gfunkmagic @ 3/30/2003 2:50:55 AM #
Brighthand is reporting that the scandisk wifi cards have been dealyed until at the earliest mid-2003:

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Wi-Fi_SD_Cards_Delayed_Until_Mid-Year

Will it access a network drive?

matisok @ 4/4/2003 7:25:16 AM #
Hi,

Wifi on my Tungsten would be super cool. That way I could use the Palm as a portable MP3 player, playing the mp3's from my main PC over the Wifi.

Does anyone know if it will be possible to connect to a "network drive".

Mathias

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