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Comments on: Handheld Shipments Decline 21%

The worldwide market for handheld devices declined in the first quarter of 2003 due to sluggish demand from businesses and consumers. According to the latest IDC's Worldwide Handheld report, shipments fell by 21% year-on-year in 1Q03 to 2.45 million units. Palm maintained its top position in the market while HP took over the number 2 position from Sony.
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Should I be surprised?

i2oadi2unnei2 @ 4/25/2003 1:10:41 PM #
Nice story Ryan. I'm not surprised with this info however I know so many people have bought the Zire 71, including my classmate and loves it. The economy isn't doing too well so I would assume thats affecting everything, but I could be wrong.

...|3eep |3eep!!...

RE: Should I be surprised?
MV-Jon @ 4/25/2003 2:22:06 PM #
Judging by the early response to the Zire 71, I am betting that Palm may just pull even further away from the others for this quarter.


Jon Niola
President/CEO
Media Vortex, Inc.

ITS GOOD
NikMan @ 4/26/2003 11:59:07 AM #
Becouse Palm switched to colorful and more multimedia devices. If there was no competition they would be still forcing black and white devices with 160*160 screen becouse of the battery life.......... I really wonder how will look the new palmos 6? With start menu ?=:)))

Well all I have to say is...

xtremist5150 @ 4/25/2003 2:24:15 PM #
HAHAHAHA Tablet PCs rule!
RE: Well all I have to say is...
RhinoSteve @ 4/25/2003 2:38:25 PM #
Not after you drop it -- ouch!
RE: Well all I have to say is...
petew @ 4/29/2003 8:10:48 AM #
Hmm, I tried a tabled pc, but I found it hard to swallow.

RE: Well all I have to say is...
mikecane @ 4/29/2003 10:04:16 AM #
You blew the punch line...

... but I wouldn't put it past MS to intro the Table PC!

Palm, a pale shadow of its former self

Foo Fighter @ 4/25/2003 2:31:27 PM #
Palm still leads, but what a downward spiral their market share has taken since the glory days. I hope the new Zire and Tungsten lines bolster sales, but I doubt we will ever see a return of to 1999.



RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
mikecane @ 4/26/2003 11:49:51 AM #
In their glory days, Palm had no competition. And they acted like it -- just like the Soviet Politburo. ("Never mind, Boris, the Berlin Wall can't fall. We can just add some more razor wire. This freedom thing is a passing fad. You watch. Now I must get to my daksha. 'Dallas' is coming on. I must find out who shot J.R.!")

RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
Davy Fields @ 4/26/2003 2:10:21 PM #
Glory Days? I don't see how these aren't the glory days.... go back and check how many Palms were sold when Palm "enjoyed" the massive market share.... they've been selling more recently during this "turbulent slide" than they ever did before, and plus they cost more and are really catching the business eye.... so don't play off percentages... they lie.

-Davy Fields
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palm_OS_5/
RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
mikecane @ 4/26/2003 2:43:43 PM #
You still have your m5xx? Or what?

RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
BUDD @ 4/26/2003 5:36:40 PM #
I don't get it. What if he was? I am happily using a TRGpro. And happy about it.

RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
Davy Fields @ 4/27/2003 12:23:25 AM #
Yeah, I'm a little confused too. All I was saying that in the market share heyday, I don't believe that they were selling many more, if any more, Palms than they are today in these times.... that's all. And no, I gave my m505 to a friend when I got the Tungsten T.

-Davy Fields
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palm_OS_5/
RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
Irvingstark @ 4/28/2003 4:48:42 PM #
Is there a tech developer or builder that you EXPECT to return to the "glory days" of 1999?! Hell, even Microsoft probably wontever get back to THAT glory...

Irv

RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
BUDD @ 4/29/2003 8:04:40 AM #
Yeah but Microsoft would be well-advised NOT to go back even if it wanted to since it's software is awful out of the gate and only improves (notice I didn't say 'gets better'---not wanting to mislead folks) with patches and prayers (and we all know their hardware was so much better then too ;)). To me the verdict is out with Palm OS updates. I just can't see anyone falling over themselves with comments on how much easier to use OS5 is to 3.5.2. Can't do anything on it that I can't with my TRGpro (screen issues aside). And what is with this LithIon thing. Nothing like spending $400+ bucks for a disposable handheld (since the Lions die after 1-2 years of heavy use). As I've said before--I have to put my Windows PC's out of their misery since they don't die. Palms should do better.

RE: Palm, a pale shadow of its former self
mikecane @ 4/29/2003 10:02:55 AM #
What sturm und drang! I was merely asking if Davey had switched machines -- he is famous for his promoting the m500 series, is all.

Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?

EdH @ 4/25/2003 2:48:43 PM #
Yeah, the economy is in the toilet, but look at the numbers.
Palm down 30%
HP down 7%
Sony *up* 60%.
Dell just flat up from zero to 159K units.
Toshiba up 430%.

Handspring basically gave up, Handera is gone, RIM is still taking a beating, Casio left North America. I just don't see this as bad and being a handheld problem per se. Sony, Dell and Toshiba are showing you they can create desirable products, and even HP's decline of 7% is largely understandable given the economy. This looks to me like a PalmSolutions problem more than anything. The Tungsten T didn't do it for them. We'll have to see of the Zire 71 and Tungsten C/W devices turn things around for Palm.

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
Georg @ 4/25/2003 3:09:35 PM #
EdH,

There is a "small" mistake in your post!!!!

Handera, Symbol etc. didn“t leave PalmOS!!!!!
Palmsource just changed the license conditions in such a grazy way, that the smaller companys cannot go ahead with PalmOS. On this way we will see Palm OS going down very fast! I hope, that the Palmsource shareholders will wake up very soon, an will fire this idots in the Palmsource managment, which have made such a grazy decission!

Georg

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
a3 @ 4/25/2003 3:13:10 PM #
Hey Edh, I believe that you're Ed Hardy the editor of Brighthand (former PIC)

I read Steven G. Bush review about the Z71 and I found this little gem: "The Zire 71 comes with 16MB of SDRAM (13MB of which is usable), which is plenty for most average users but considerably shy of that found on the new Tungsten C and most Pocket PCs."

I believe it is kind of biased (to say the less)to compare Palm's memory capacity vs PPC's. I hope you agree with me...

In case you're not Ed Hardy just excuse my confusion. :)

_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
a3 @ 4/25/2003 3:21:24 PM #
HP figures include Compaq's? If so, the whole went down 7% or just HP?

_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.
RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
EdH @ 4/25/2003 3:40:57 PM #
Yes. HP's numbers now include Compaq, so the combo of HP/Compaq in 2002 was 473,000 units. The combo in 2003 was 440,000, thus the 7% decline.

And no, I am not Ed Hardy. :-) I'm the Ed from Pocket PC Thoughts though.

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
jtopf @ 4/25/2003 5:47:22 PM #
"Palmsource just changed the license conditions in such a grazy way, that the smaller companys cannot go ahead with PalmOS. On this way we will see Palm OS going down very fast!"

I don't think that Symbol or Handera added much of anything to the market share of PalmOS. And anyone who was going to buy one of their units probably switched to a different PalmOS rather than jumping platform. Besides nostalgia, they won't be missed.

JT

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
cbowers @ 4/25/2003 7:29:06 PM #
"shareholders will wake up very soon, an will fire this idots in the Palmsource managment, which have made such a grazy decission!"

By shareholders I guess that would include Sony's 6%, and whatever Palm owns. So I wouldn't be optimistic. Both have still to show that they "get it". With PocketPC licensees doing more with less, for less, those two have everything to fear from the likes of a Dell, HP, or Toshiba in the palmos platform. Though unfortunately at the moment it looks like that happening is the only thing that would make for competitive hardware.

Still waiting for the marriage of our OS and apps, and their hardware.

I guess if it takes rooting for PPC marketshare gains to shake up Palmsource, Palm and Sony, so be it. Logic doesn't seem to be getting the job done... And my throat's getting sore ;-)

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
Timothy Rapson @ 4/25/2003 8:54:07 PM #
Palm had a first quarter the likes of which I would have predicted for the PPC camp for the forth quarter of 2002. A 30% drop. Sony had the biggest bump, proving that if you have the hottest products you could get real market growth even in a tough market.

I think the big news this week that Palm came out with a model with features (the camera and cutting edge screen) that no one expected at a price no one expected. If Palm sells 850,000 Zire 71s in the second/third quarter like they did $99 Zires in the past two quarters, they will have made some real money and regained a lot of market.

I would expect to see TT redone with 32 meg RAM and transflective screen soon. But, the way Palm has updated in the past it won't happen until Spring of 2004.

I wonder if PPC has any models in the wings with cameras built-in (aside from the Hitaci and Samsung phone models).

I have no way of knowing how Toshiba increased sales when the Axims were available. Guess the WiFi and the E335 form factor. What happens to Toshiba when Axim has the same? Perhaps the Dells did not cut into Toshiba and HP sales as much as I expected, but HP was saved only by 1910 sales from having it's 4th consecutive quarter of declining sales? Maybe I could go look that up.

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
hotpaw4 @ 4/25/2003 9:45:24 PM #
If you add the Palm Solutions Group and Sony unit sales numbers together, combined they actually *gained* market share, year-over-year, against everybody else. So it looks like it's more of an entire PDA market issue, or maybe even a PPC issue, than a PalmOS issue.
RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
mikecane @ 4/26/2003 11:53:31 AM #
>>And no, I am not Ed Hardy. :-) I'm the Ed from Pocket PC Thoughts though.

-- that's Ed Hansberry, whose foaming-at-the-mouth anti-Palm comments at PPCT are a source of great comedy to PIC readers...

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
EdH @ 4/27/2003 8:49:16 PM #
Yeah Mike. One day I hope to write like you so I can put copyright info at the bottom of all of my posts.

Copyright © 2003
by Ed Hansberry.
All Rights Reserved.


RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
abosco @ 4/27/2003 11:02:31 PM #
I've got to admit, both insults were pretty nice. I've always wondered exactly what Mike has copywrited, just like I've always wondered why EdH is always so funny.

Silly drunks.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Is this a PDA issue or a Palm issue?
treo007 @ 4/28/2003 1:40:51 PM #
Yea it's great. Hansberry basically embarrasses himself in front of the outside world and clearly has no idea. If he does, it's even worse that he's willing to take that kind of bullet for Microsoft.

The only other explanation is that he's been picked on and/or beat up by a Palm employee somewhere along the way.

Everybody was waiting for Palm's new models

a3 @ 4/25/2003 3:08:58 PM #
IMHO anyone interested in bying a Palm did not do it during 1Q only because they were waiting for all the rumors about new models to become true.
A friend of mine decided one month ago that a TG50 was the right PDA for him. After reviewing PIC he decided to wait and yesterday he bought a Z71.

_______________________________________
Nothing: the worst you can do.
That depends...
Marshall Flinkman @ 4/25/2003 11:15:41 PM #
...on who you mean. Savvy power users may have been waiting, but there are so many people out there who don't know anything (like when new models come out or what features upcoming models are rumored to have). Remember, PIC posters and readers make up a very small fraction of the market.

Things are changing...

SaabCaptain @ 4/25/2003 4:23:30 PM #
1. Cellphones drop in price and now are becoming fairly useable for much of the PIM functions of a handheld.

2. Truly universal wireless connectivity for handhelds isn't here yet, what is currently offered is either location based or far to pricey for the ordinary consumer.

3. Handheld prices have either stayed the same or inched upward for the Palm market in recent years, remember these units cost MORE than the Pilot 5000 did so many years ago. Yes the Zire and other units are at a good price point but the real "forward-thinking" handhelds are much, much more expensive.

4. Good Windows XP laptops with large screens and Wi-Fi are arriving a price points very close to high-end handhelds. Many of these laptops are small and can be used by roadwarriors looking for internet functionality without comprimise while using their color cellphones for PIM functions.

Handhelds to experience a new period of growth need to find a way to cost under $300 (even for high end) and provide unlimited internet access ANYWHERE for a low, low cost. Can it be done? I don't know. Is it what they need to experience another boom? Yes.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

RE: Things are changing...
Lidocaineus @ 4/25/2003 4:45:55 PM #
Well just a few comments...

Wi-Fi on a laptop is not really an issue; Wi-Fi on a handheld/PDA has much less importance and is almost always better filled by bluetooth + internet access point (GPRS radio/phone, bt ap, bridge, etc). In addition, laptop usage patterns hardly conincide with PDA usage patterns. PDA usage may be considered more of a niche market, but it still doesn't share many of the same objectives as those with laptops.

Lastly, wide range internet access for low prices is almost here; most people I know (admitedly these are high end buyers who do not reflect the market) use a combo of GSM/GPRS phone (AT&T) and either have unlimited use of data services for free (GPRS, not CSD, mostly through company agreements) that they access through bluetooth on their PDAs or laptops, or failing that, use one of the AT&T data plans. Note that usage is subject to AT&T GPRS coverage (great in some places, practically ubiquitous in Europe, really horrid in some place, most notably middle-of-nowhere America areas, where GSM has barely rolled out), and the low price for go-it-yourself data plans is not quite here yet.

Since you have a T|T, I'm assuming you know the joy of wireless internet connectivity.

RE: Things are changing...
SaabCaptain @ 4/26/2003 1:16:10 AM #
I have a Tungsten T but no bluetooth for my computer yet. I was waiting to get a bluetooth cellphone and then get the MS bluetooth desktop, but for now I object to your statement that for most bluetooth is superior to Wi-Fi. While bluetooth is making inroads it is growing very slowly and the vast majority of cellphones, PDAs, and most importantly computers simply don't have the technology. Getting the technology as an add-on costs almost as much as getting a Wi-Fi router, which in the case of the router gives significant functionality of networking and distributed internet service that Bluetooth doesn't provide. Most customers with only $100 or so to spend are going to go the 802.11 option over the sparsely supported Bluetooth.

I know I did. With a desktop, a laptop, and a cable modem Wi-Fi was the obvious and excellent option. My Tivo now also connects wirelessly to my Wi-Fi router. To purchase a PDA with Wi-Fi built in seems the obvious choice in the future for me as I wouldn't have to pay more money to get the same functionality as my house is already setup for Wi-Fi. Until the vast majority of computers, laptops, printers, cellphones, and PDAs start coming with Bluetooth I am afraid it will not be a good option to the more popular Wi-Fi (except in the biggest Bluetooth advantage... cellphones and PDAs together allowing internet on the go, but how many modern cellphones even have Bluetooth, the newest cellphones have not picked up the trend of last years Sony model).

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!

RE: Things are changing...
Lidocaineus @ 4/26/2003 11:01:05 AM #
Well, like I said, wireless connectivity for the masses is not quite here yet, but it is very close.

WiFi for most PDAs is useless; PDAs are meant to be used on the go, while you're moving around. Unless you carry a roving WiFi hotspot with you, it's pretty much moot. Case in point: I have WiFi in my house (for an iBook and a nice new PowerBook G4 17"), and cat5 for everything else because I run an internal network that demands low latency + high bandwidth for certain applications (two windows 2k machines, a Linux dev box, a Linux server, an Xbox, Dreamcast, PS2, and PVR machine). Hooking my PDA into the network is not a problem with WiFi, and walking into my office downtown is not a problem either with their WiFi APs, however, it becomes totally useless in between the two locations.

Bluetooth alleviates this problem, because guess what? You can't have a roving WiFi hotspot, but you sure can have a roving BT AP, in this case, your mobile provider, connected through your phone, via BT. I can check my email, surf the web, and chat online while I'm taking the el (I live in Chicago) to work, or if I've taken a weekend in Moab and I'm at the lip of a canyon.

Now sure, WiFi APs will become larger in coverage over the years; I mean Starbucks has them everywhere, and even my neighborhood bar has WiFi access, but true nationwide coverage won't come for a long time, if at all, not to mention that most places that do provide WiFi, you have to pay extra for.

You seem to be one of those people who confuse WiFi and BT as competing standards, which is pretty far from the truth. While there is some overlap, they definitely don't share many common goals. BT helps me sync my phone with my PIMs on my computers, and my T|T. It helps me dial directly from my T|T's address book. It helps me download images to and from my phone w/camera. It connects me to other PDAs and laptops and computers for exchanging data, and sharing certain apps like whiteboards. WiFi connects me to a network, which is not to marginalize it, but instead to put it in perspective. To say BT is only for connecting to the internet is to miss 90% of the BT picture.

And if you think BT is not taking off, I suggest you look around. Practically every new phone Nokia and S-E are churning out these days includes BT, including the low end models. Just because your provider doesn't yet have these phones doesn't mean a huge wave of them isn't coming, not to mention everything from BT enabled mp3 players (Apple mentioned they'd like to enable bt in their ipods to control them wirelessly from a pda or phone or other bt device), to pop machines (yes, pop machines), to everyday things like keyboards.

RE: Things are changing...
mikecane @ 4/26/2003 11:55:40 AM #
>>WiFi for most PDAs is useless; PDAs are meant to be used on the go, while you're moving around. Unless you carry a roving WiFi hotspot with you, it's pretty much moot.

Oh, I see. There's a law stating you can't *be still* when using a PDA? I was wondering why when I'm in a public park and using my CLIE a cop invariably comes over to tell me to move along...

...but seriously, what's this nonsense about WiFi on PDAs being useless? That's as dumb as saying Bluetooth is worthless if you don't have a BT-enabled cellhone. Hello, what about just needing to use a BT-enabled printer? (And this is coming from someone who said in a PIC article that BT was useless -- and had some education on the subject pounded into him!).

RE: Things are changing...
SaabCaptain @ 4/26/2003 12:12:30 PM #
I certainly understand very well the difference between BT and Wi-Fi, but I was simply stating the reality of cellphone bluetooth accessability as being very poor with little sign of improvement based on announced products and prices. That means most people with Tungsten T units etc. use Bluetooth in a fixed enviroment like the home through computer bluetooth dongles in which case Bluetooth is WORSE than Wi-Fi because it is a seperate cost when most could just use their already present and more common Wi-Fi system to do the same thing but with slightly longer range etc.

owned: Pilot 5000, PalmPilot Pro, Palm V, IIIc, m505, Sony T615, TUNGSTEN T!!
RE: Things are changing...
abosco @ 4/26/2003 2:19:27 PM #
Gasp! Isn't this the same Mike Cane that said Palm included dumb Bluetooth instead of smart Wifi, then went on to ramble to PDAngel for days on end? Could it be? Am I hearing this right? Mike Cane gives the thumbs up to Wifi AND Bluetooth??? Well I'll be damned...

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Things are changing...
mikecane @ 4/26/2003 2:44:45 PM #
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's me.

NO!! It's ska!!! (Yeah! That's the ticket! Nyahahaha!)

RE: Things are changing...
mikecane @ 4/26/2003 2:45:42 PM #
And it wasn't PDAngel. We just exhanged a brief flurry of insults. It was a whole squad of BTroopers who beat me up with their BT-enabled truncheons!

RE: Things are changing...
abosco @ 4/26/2003 3:06:48 PM #
The moment I read that bit about the T|T's Bluetooth, I slapped my head and cursed like a sailor.

And you were going nuts on PDAngel. Almost as nuts as you were going on ska... hmm... wait a minute, you grammar can't expand much further than, "Wifi rulz, Bluetooth sux," and you always seems to bring up the PPC platform... YOU'RE SKA!

I need a few shots of Grappa.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Things are changing...
Lidocaineus @ 4/26/2003 8:39:25 PM #
Maybe saying WiFi for PDAs is useless was a little harsh, after all, I use it when in the hotspots, but the ratio of me uisng WiFi to BT access is more than 80%/20%, simply because of the nature of a PDA - if you're in a hotspot, you're most likely to have a laptop (at a cafe) or your desktop (you're at home or you're at your office). PDAs are extremely mobile devices, meant to be used at a moment's notice wherever you are. One of the greatest points of usefullness for a PDA is its ability to be highly mobile, useful when untethered from a computer.

If you think most Tungsten | T users use their PDAs in a fixed environment, you know a bunch of people who bought the technology and don't know much about exploiting it. Everyone I know with T|T's (again, over 14, though they don't really represent joe-user) are serious mobile users. In fact, only three of them use BT dongles in fixed places.

If you believe the availability of mobile providers with BT phones and mobile internet access is limited, your view is as well. Most providers (with the exception of Nextel) provide mobile access (even Sprint, a notable stogy data provider), whether it's CSWD or GSM/GPRS, and like I said originally, check out all the major phone manufacturers' product lineups and notice that even some of the low end models include BT chipsets. Why? Because BT chipsets are cheap and easy to implement.

WiFi doesn't replace BT, and BT doesn't replace WiFi. And the cost of adding BT to an existing network is negligible, in fact, adding a WiFi AP is *much* more expensive than buying a dongle. You say WiFi is ubiquitous and the AP might already be there, adding no cost; that logic is inherently flawed. When you buy a WiFi adapter, you have to purchase an AP too. It's the exact same situation.

RE: Things are changing...
abosco @ 4/26/2003 9:05:25 PM #
Now wait a minute. If I want to buy a BT dongle, I'll find one for about $70. I bought my NetGear wireless 802.11b Cable Router for my home network for $69, and my cable modem for $19 after an $80 rebate.

Wifi is much better for a home office. Who's to say it's not useful? There's no way I'd be willing to check the latest news by carrying a laptop all around my house and yard. Not a chance. With my NX, I whip it out of my pants (;D) and start surfing. When I head over to school, I just change the access profile to the school's SSID with two taps, and I've got a mobile internet machine. And if I want to war-chalk or look for some free access, I go to the other profile called ANY and leave it trying to connect while in the car or wherever. There's no way a laptop would be as convenient as this.

And why can't these technologies compliment each other? With integrated Bluetooth and a Wifi expansion card coupled with a T68i, you've got a great setup for wireless internet. Bluetooth while on the road, Wifi for access points. Wifi is more suitable for short spurts of internet access because it's much faster, and Bluetooth is better for more prolonged periods of wireless access through a phone because of the much less battery life required.

Let me be the first to tell you that Wifi on a PDA is plenty useful, and I'm even looking for a next-gen Clie to include Bluetooth so I can finally buy that T68i I've had my eye on. These are complimentary technologies, not competing ones.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

RE: Things are changing...
BlueAnon @ 4/26/2003 10:59:48 PM #
oh my god, somebody sees the light!
RE: Things are changing...
abosco @ 4/27/2003 2:09:07 AM #
Sure isn't you.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications
RE: Things are changing...
Zuber @ 4/27/2003 2:18:33 PM #
I like the flexibility of Bluetooth myself. It is possible to get Bluetooth Dongles at a much lower price these days (<£30 ~ < $40).

It would be possible to include longer range Bluetooth as well, allowing home use for WiFi style browsing at home. But for most people, the main use is short range (with a phone), hence it is better to save battery power. I actually use 2 Bluetooth dongles at home so I can use the laptop around the house while networked. Not full blown capabilities of WiFi perhaps, but more flexible for me.

Also, I like the security of Bluetooth. Nothing connects to my devices unless I want. I can require permision to be granted every time if required, or I can grant unrestricted acces. I can require transmition to be encrypted if required. All part of the standard protocols. Lots of flexible options as standard.

Zuber

RE: Things are changing...
abosco @ 4/27/2003 4:39:41 PM #
Yes, that's true, but that's not Bluetooth's specialty. That's where Wifi is at its peak usefulness. You can put 64/128 Bit security on your Wifi Access Point and require all computers and PDA's that try to use it must either have permission to use it and they must require the key, which can be 5, 10, 13, or 26 characters long. Wifi also has a much longer range and a much faster access when it comes to broadband internet sharing. Even with the 100FT exension on the Bluetooth Dongle, it won't do anything because the PDA also needs a 100FT extension to its range. The signal needs to meet the access point, not signal to signal. This is why people get burned with those 100FT Bluetooth AP's and 30FT PDA's. But for connecting electronics together, Bluetooth is the best for that.

We're all agreeing that Bluetooth is useful, but it can't match up to Wifi as an access point. If you're looking to do both, then you'll likely need both technologies instead of just Bluetooth. These are complimentary technologies, best used side by side.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
Members: abosco and ImpReza M3
Now accepting new applications

Not surprising...

ross_winn @ 4/27/2003 7:22:40 PM #
This is not a huge surprise. I see Palm as being about six months behind Handspring in terms of corporate health. Palm has made what I consider to be huge mistakes in branding (Zire? Tungsten?) as well as feature creep, OS bloat, and damn near every other mistake possible with a software company. Then they release a slew of products too little and too late, feature crippled, and flatly outclassed by people like Sony. PDAs are consumer items. Yet Palm makes no consumer PDAs since the m130. Add a ****ing camera to an m130 and you have an instant hit, but why do that when you can start a completely new product line with extremely limited utility. I digress, but I am guessing (even though I love the technology and the utility) that Palm sells out to Sony within 18-24 months.

RE: Not surprising...
abosco @ 4/28/2003 1:46:42 PM #
You would not believe how many people think the m100 series is ugly. It's trully something that must be hidden in a cove. I have one, and it's something I try not to look at. But the Zire 71, now that's eye candy. It looks nice, has a great screen, runs OS 5, it's cheap, and has a camera. I really don't see the advantage of adding a camera to a unit that would be too slow to respond to it and with color and resolution that's sub-par for picture viewing.

The Zire 71 is the smartest thing Palm SG has done since the Palm V.

IMO, there needs to be a crossbreed between the Zire and Tungsten lines. What if I want built-in Wifi with a 320x480 screen, stereo audio, and a widescreen movie player? I'm forced into buying an NX (like I did). The success of the NX line shows that the market is willing to pay a premium, even in this down economy, for quality products high on features. This is also represented in the rise of PPC. IMO, if Sony hits the mark with these next NX's, they will have complete control of the high end, with Palm SG dominating the low-end, and the mid-range is still up in the air.

-Bosco
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Yes Virginia, Palm is still dead...
G Martin @ 4/28/2003 1:47:54 PM #
... but a couple of friends of mine who have been using their Palm V's for years have finally decided to upgrade to Zire 71's.

RE: Not surprising...
Scouter1807 @ 4/28/2003 4:13:07 PM #
Sad. Sad. Sad.

Palm is doing fine. The Tungsten line up out classes anything Sony puts together, and the Tungsten C is just amazing. They are once again leading the pack with an Intel 400MHz processor, 64MB RAM, and the best screen I've ever seen. I've owned a Handspring B&W unit, A IIIC; A CLIE' 710; 760; 615; Tungsten T and now the C. I couldn't be happier. And didn't I just look so cool sitting in Starbucks on Sunday surging the Web. Turned a few heads...

The problem with Sony is that they can't keep one product long enough without changing something, making your product obsolete, and without a good source of Accessories. Take pictures with a Palm? Nonsense. Buy a camera. But if you must, the Zire 71 is one heck of a way to go. Nice Screen. Nice VGA resolution.

Nope, Palm isn't dead. I think you have it wrong...

Bob

RE: Not surprising...
Irvingstark @ 4/28/2003 4:42:37 PM #
Handspring in better corporate health than Palm....Someone's not doing their homework. That must be why Handspring has been trading around 67cents a share vs Palms 10bucks a share...

I saw the Zire the other day, and I must say, it intrigued me. I appreciated the killer resolution and the funky camera but felt shortchanged at the relative cheapness of the construction. EG no design for cases, very plastic construction. I appreciate Palm using the plastic in construction as it really lightens the handhelds weight, better for carrying around (anyone WANT to lug around a Pocket PC??) However, given the lack of a clear design form to wrap a case around, I suspect that one drop out of a case and you are DONE my friend...

Irv

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