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Comments on: Overstock to Resell Open Box Palm Products

Palm has announced it has struck a deal with Internet retailer Overstock.com to test and resell open-box and customer-returned Palm products in the U.S.
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ME FIRST!!

Tuckermaclain @ 6/13/2003 12:22:15 PM #
Sounds like a good idea. You heard it from me first.

RE: ME FIRST!!
Palm III / Ipaq User @ 6/13/2003 6:14:13 PM #
I wonder how much money companies like Palm lose on open box products. I suppose that those of us consumers who research a product, buy it and are happy with it are paying the overhead for those who buy a product and return it since the company now has to sell the open product at a discount. Palm seems to have tones of these open box products...

There is no question that Palm's hardware is stagnating. Many of the people who I know who have bought palms that aren't computer geeks don't even use them anymore. These people won't ever buy another handheld.

It would be too bad if the Palm OS were to die completely since it is still a very elegant PIM manager.



Desperate times...

Satan @ 6/13/2003 12:42:53 PM #
call for desperate measures. Unfortunately, selling refurbished Palms doesn't change the reason why so many exist: poor value on the hardware side and a stagnant OS.

The ongoing charade involving the hardware/OS split may help the bottom line, but several years ago beancounters replaced engineers and programmers in the decision-making hierarchy at Palm. Recent corporate shuffles are unlikely to change that fundamental problem.

When Sony finally buys the Palm OS (it will get the lame duck Handspring and Palm hardware divisions thrown in so Palm shareholders can make a quick buck) the platform may stabilize. Sony will soon figure out what combination of features consumers want and prices will come down to a more reasonable level. Only problem is there are other "solutions" out there that aren't standing still.

A few questions for Sony/Palm:

- When will the stock prices be boosted enough to warrant the deal?

- How useless is the Treo division? Yes Handspring was able to secure contracts with phone service providers, but have you heard of Nokia? Have you seen the Japanese phone industry? Tiny phones with PIM capability, digital cameras, etc. will come from traditional phone and hardware companies at a faster rate than Handspring could ever have hoped to engineer. Having the Palm OS onboard doesn't give you much leverage in this neck of the woods. Will Treo disappear as quickly as the Springboard did?

- Is that chunk of land in Silicon Valley sold yet? Does Sony have to buy that too in order to get the OS?

- Now that the wagons are being circled, will potential licencees trust PalmSource? (Exhibit A: HandEra)

- When will the useless SD slot be ditched in favor of a CompactFlash slot? (Sony is at least starting to get the picture.) PDAs are about convenience and flexibility; SD - and Memory Stick - just don't cut it.

- Once the consolidation has been completed, will the Palm brand be limited to entry-level ($50 - 100) PDAs? How about:
Entry level - Palm
Toys with cameras MP3, etc. - Sony
Business - Palm-branded no-nonsense Sony
Phone - Rebadged Sony

- What's the total on Palm's losses over the past four years? Is it up to a billion yet? Does Sony get to choke that down too?


Load up on that Palm stock, kiddies. That's what everyone at Palm/Handspring are doing. Too bad the SEC will probably investigate the Handspring buyout...

RE: Desperate times...
sr @ 6/13/2003 2:30:54 PM #
Satan, thanks for the warning, so the fact that Overstock carries PocketPCs as well means they're all going to hell as well? Someone should tell IBM the same, apparently there are people who returned ThinkPads as well!!! :-O

RE: Desperate times...
Lungboy @ 6/13/2003 3:12:40 PM #
er, satan...
Sony has expressed interest in buying Palmsource, not Palm.

Palmsource carries far less baggage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eagles may soar but at least weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.

RE: Desperate times...
ZPWeeks @ 6/13/2003 4:42:43 PM #
Satan, why the sudden fit of rage? I should let you know that I am a Sony user, and I find myself actually kind of impressed that Palm is starting to get its' act together. Sure, they've got some business issues. But just look at what they've been doing recently! They've created the Tungsten C and the Zire 71... Allowing both the business users (built-in WiFi in a small, non-clumsy *cough*cough*PPC*cough* unit) and the customers (HiRes Color + OS 5 + Camera at a ludicrously low price) to really get a great deal. In fact, the T|C and Zire 71 are earning the honest envy of Clie and Pocket PC users everywhere!

I have to admit that I'm not sure what will come of Palm's acquisition of Handspring... 'spring and Hawkins have kinda been treading water the past three or so years, but it can only strengthen Palm's business-ended marketing.... Could you imagine a Tungsten C- Tungsten W hybrid?

And why do you speak lowly of the low-end models? Last time I checked, 75% of Palm OS handhelds are bought for personal use, and not business. It's important to offer the cheap models to keep the industry afloat... If Palm and Sony only offered business models, where would we be? Ah, yes, selling Pocket PC's and scaring Bill into buying the whole thing. And making only 25% of the small amount the industry is scrounging up now.

If Sony buys PalmSource, I'll be happy. But we're about to see a big jolt in the industry thanks to Palm's new strength, and there's no reason for pessimism as they start to sell some of their returned units.

RE: Desperate times...
orev @ 6/13/2003 4:50:54 PM #
What is you people's obsession with compact flash? It's old, consumes a TON of power, and is too big for today's slim PDAs.

95% of the people out there only need a memory expansion slot, so all those CF gadgets are cool, but are now a specialty item. You can't expect everyone to use them anymore.

RE: Desperate times...
ZPWeeks @ 6/13/2003 4:55:45 PM #
Oh, yes, I forgot to add that SD technology is quite impressive... And it's starting to come out with more than memory. Bluetooth cards are out now, and WiFi is on the horizon for this fall. All in a postage stamp footprint! If you're bagging on SD technology, and you're all hot on Sony, you should turn on a Palm or Treo sometime and fool around with the expansion... It's something like 2 or 3 times as fast as memory sticks, and also is beginning to do everything CF does.

RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/13/2003 6:39:10 PM #
>>>Satan, thanks for the warning, so the fact that Overstock carries PocketPCs as well means they're all going to hell as well? Someone should tell IBM the same, apparently there are people who returned ThinkPads as well!!! :-O

I don't expect you to understand subtleties involving inventory management, but Palm currently has significantly more detritus in their chain than any other PDA manufacturer. The Overstock deal is just a small part of the picture. There just aren't enough places on the web to unload Palm's current baggage.

Do a little reading before you post.It might spare you a permanent trip to the Really Warm Place.

RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/13/2003 6:56:03 PM #
>>>er, satan...
Sony has expressed interest in buying Palmsource, not Palm.

Palmsource carries far less baggage.


Do you actually think they would sell the OS to a "competitor" that has unlimited resources and better hardware? Palm's only real asset now is their OS. Palm has made stunning miscalculations over the years, but they aren't run by complete idiots. Letting Sony cherry pick the OS would mean instant death to Palm and everyone knows this. If you want to date the Prom Queen, you're going to have to also find a friend for her hideous best friend, Ethel.

Palm OS is still the most elegant solution on the market - despite four years of neglect. With the right 3rd party apps, Palm even has better MS Office integration than PocketPC. Palm could have developed the hardware and OS years ago and easily become the workplace standard like Windows is in the desktop environment. Instead, they got fat and lazy, living off their name.

If Sony gets their act together they may become the first company to screw Microsoft in the past ten years. A no-nonsense wireless CLIE with bundled Word/Excel/browser etc. could stop PocketPC if the CLIE was marketed properly. But time is running out for Sony. Dell falling in line with Microsoft is giving PocketPC the legitimacy Palm lacks. Spending a billion on Palm would be worth it for Sony if it hurts Microsoft's image and killed off PocketPC.

Sony is also about to try to obviate Windows on the hame front by using the Play Station as its Trojan Horse.

Remember - companies lke IBM, Sony, Dell, HP, Microsoft et. al. survive because they'd just as soon kill you as look at you.

RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/13/2003 7:52:07 PM #
>>>In fact, the T|C and Zire 71 are earning the honest envy of Clie and Pocket PC users everywhere!

Not likely. But the sliding case on the Tungsten T is the best Palm design since the Palm V. The next step is to do this with Virtual Graffiti.

>>>I have to admit that I'm not sure what will come of Palm's acquisition of Handspring...

It's all about stock prices, posturing and making money. In the software industry, you could now say that The Albatross Previously Known As Handspring (TAPKAH) will be "bundled" with Palm.
Hope you never lose that innocence. It's sweet. Really.

>>>And why do you speak lowly of the low-end models?

I don't. In fact, for years I've said that Palm's best models have always been their cheapest. The four year old IIIxe is still probably a better PDA than most users will ever need.

>>>If Sony buys PalmSource, I'll be happy.

Will you still be happy when the only Palm OS PDA you can buy is a Sony? Almost all monopolies are bad for consumers.


>>>But we're about to see a big jolt in the industry thanks to Palm's new strength,

Big jolt - yes. But not because of "Palm's new strength".

RE: Desperate times...
Islander @ 6/13/2003 8:13:32 PM #
Quote:
>>Satan, why the sudden fit of rage?<<


Dude look who you are talking about.
He doesnt need an excuse to get angry.
The guy is in a "fit of rage" every day.


RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/13/2003 8:27:56 PM #
>>>Dude look who you are talking about.
He doesnt need an excuse to get angry.
The guy is in a "fit of rage" every day.


I'm still not letting you out of here, Islander. Get back to work!



RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/13/2003 8:31:10 PM #
>>>What is you people's obsession with compact flash? It's old, consumes a TON of power, and is too big for today's slim PDAs.

CompactFlash is proven, inexpensive, non-proprietary and has a working I/O. Repeat after me: "Old does not equal bad. New does not equal good."
Some CF cards use a fair amount of power, but with color screens about to become the standard, most users won't really expect more than a few hours of battery life from their PDAs. And with new battery technology, this will be even less of an issue. CF cards can easily fit in the smallest of today's PDAs. Remember that if a media format is too small, its potential for use in some applications can be limited.

>>>95% of the people out there only need a memory expansion slot, so all those CF gadgets are cool, but are now a specialty item. You can't expect everyone to use them anymore.

And "95% of the people out there" don't "need" an expansion slot given how they currently use their PDAs. But if you build it, they will come. Having several competing standards isn't helpful to anyone. (Have you shopped for a digital camera recently?)

RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/13/2003 8:54:09 PM #
>>>Oh, yes, I forgot to add that SD technology is quite impressive... And it's starting to come out with more than memory.


More vaporware and only two years after promised. Is there even an I/O standard yet?

RE: Desperate times...
goofrider @ 6/13/2003 10:40:00 PM #
This has nothing to do with desperation, it's a simple matter of efficient inventory reduction.

Customers frequently return products regardless of quailty. Returned items creates an inventory burden on manufacturers.

Sony has dedicated factory outlet stores around the country to sell their refurbished items. Palm doesn't have that kind of retail channels.

Such inventory of older models has traditionally plagued many high tech manufacturers. Apple is famous for losing millions by announcing newer models without clearing inventory for older models first. Remember that while many consumers may be interested in refurbished units or older models, these inventory are of absolutely no interest to wholesalers.

The partnership with Overstock.com is a smart move IMHO. Overstock.com is a specialist in moving refurbished units and can do so in high volume. It lets Palm significantly reduces its inventory of older models.

Overstock.com isn't your grandma's online outlet store either. It went ****public***** last year, among a few others Dotcomers who managed to go public last year including PayPal and Netflix. It's no easy task considering that investors are still very wary of eCommerce stocks.

http://news.com.com/2100-1017-928623.html

Sure it's not a stellar performer in the stock market, but at least it maintains a slightly high price than the IPO. It sure didn't plumet to $1 like most others.

RE: Desperate times...
goofrider @ 6/13/2003 11:03:07 PM #
Hey Satan...


>>>Do you actually think they would sell the OS to a "competitor" that has unlimited resources and better hardware? Palm's only real asset now is their OS.

Palm spun off PalmSource. Palm Solutions no longer own the OS. What rock have u been libing under?


>>>- How useless is the Treo division? Yes Handspring was able to secure contracts with phone service providers, but have you heard of Nokia?

When Treo was first introduced at Comdex over a year ago, it won Best of Comdex. It's still considered the best smartphone in terms of usability. Comestically it has nothing to brag about though.

Palm OS smartphones are competing with Symbian OS and MS Stinger. The market is still very small and it'll be a tough fight. It was unfortunate that Handspring chose to depend on the explosion of the smartphone market and that's why it got itself to its current financial situation.

As most Palm devotees would point out, the merger with Handspring is primarily to regain the heart and soul of Palm (i.e. Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky). It's not much of a business decision.

>>>- When will the useless SD slot be ditched in favor of a CompactFlash slot? (Sony is at least starting to get the picture.)

Quite the contrary, SD will be standard soon across many types of devices. Manufacturers all over are converting to SD. You can see that many of the SD supporters came from both the CompactFlash (mostly US companies) and SmartMedia (mostly Japanese) camps. SD was an effort not only to miniaturize CF/SM, but to consolidate the resources from both side of the Pacific.

SD is faster, lower pin count (hence lower cost) and require much less power. All of these are very important to handheld devices. CF was really just a shrinked version of PCMCIA, not really well-suited for handhelds.

What you really should be advocating for is more SDIO cards, or pressure companies to release the long-promised WiFi SDIO cards.

Sony included CF mostly because they can't produce a WiFi MemoryStick adaptor. Sony wouldn't have to go out of its way to include CF and create MS Pro if the MS specs were up to par with SD.


RE: Desperate times...
RhinoSteve @ 6/14/2003 3:41:16 AM #
Goofrider, you got it right. Simple inventory unloading. Frankly, for a company like Palm to get this type of coverage over a simple inventory unloading shows how successful the whole Palm economy and hot incompetant Microsoft is if they can't monopolize a market.

When you are successful as Palm, you get a lot of nay-sayers. Even the most lengenday heros has lice to deal with.
RE: Desperate times...
orb2069 @ 6/14/2003 7:18:43 AM #
>>>What is you people's obsession with compact flash?

- VFSMark ratings 20 to 50% higher than SD.
- $60 CF 802.11 cards. ('CF 802.11b')
- $40 56K Modems. ('CF 56k')
- $45 10/100 NICs. ('CF 10/100')
(Numbers from Pricewatch.com)

...And you can put it in an $10 adapter and use it in your laptop.

SD is cute, but I'd rather have something that WORKS.

RE: Desperate times...
JKingGrim @ 6/14/2003 10:06:28 AM #
When will the useless SD slot be ditched in favor of a CompactFlash slot? (Sony is at least starting to get the picture.)

Sony is not getting the picture. They only included CF for the wifi. Why do you think all of the CF Clies only natively support the wlan card? Because they are trying to push the proprietary MemStick.

I kinda would like to see a SD+CF combo in a device. CF is cheaper, and CF pheriphals are better, because they don't stick out as much.

RE: Desperate times...
JKingGrim @ 6/14/2003 10:13:53 AM #
Ooops! My html is bad. :)

RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/14/2003 11:00:02 AM #
>>>This has nothing to do with desperation, it's a simple matter of efficient inventory reduction.

As I said before, the problem lies not in Palm having open box units, but rather the sheer number of used units they have to dispose of.

RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/14/2003 11:05:56 AM #

Hey Satan...
Palm spun off PalmSource. Palm Solutions no longer own the OS. What rock have u been libing under?

If you really believe PalmSource and Palm are separate companies you either (a) are 12 years old or (b) are unusually naive.

When Treo was first introduced at Comdex over a year ago, it won Best of Comdex.

And that is important now because...?

It was unfortunate that Handspring chose to depend on the explosion of the smartphone market and that's why it got itself to its current financial situation.

Handspring's decision to become a phone maker was a calculated gamble, but they actually had no other viable options for survival. The Springboard would not survive the ever-shrinking PDA form factors and they realize in the long run it would be impossible to go head to head with Sony. (Just count how many different PDAs Sony has introduced in the past 24 months. It must be up to over a dozen. Eventually, they'll probably get it right. How many models has Handspring put out in the same time? They just could not compete at this level any more.) Now Handspring can just bide their time until they cash in on the buyout.

As most Palm devotees would point out, the merger with Handspring is primarily to regain the heart and soul of Palm (i.e. Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky). It's not much of a business decision.

I hope you really don't believe what you wrote. Do you think the Palm board of directors are just sitting around holding hands with Hawkins + Dubinsky, singing "Kumbaya"? Get a clue. Big business is about money and has nothing to do with the warm fuzzies Hawkins + Dubinsky still manage to evoke.

SD will be standard soon across many types of devices. Manufacturers all over are converting to SD.

SD is inferior to CompactFlash at this point in time for several reasons, as already outlined. As someone else posted, CF also is significantly faster in current implementations.

SD was an effort not only to miniaturize CF/SM, but to consolidate the resources from both side of the Pacific.

SD is just another cash grab by cynical manufacturers. Sony's pushing of its pathetic Memory Stick is even more odious. Consumers need to vote with their pocketbooks. If manufacturers know they can get away with selling useless crap, they will continue the status quo.

SD is faster, lower pin count (hence lower cost) and require much less power. All of these are very important to handheld devices. CF was really just a shrinked version of PCMCIA, not really well-suited for handhelds.

SD in not faster, whatever they may list in their specs. CF works quite well with PDAs as anyone with a PocketPC, TRGPro, HandEra 330, etc., can tell you.

Sony included CF mostly because they can't produce a WiFi MemoryStick adaptor. Sony wouldn't have to go out of its way to include CF and create MS Pro if the MS specs were up to par with SD.

Yes, Sony is about as altruistic as Microsoft, but even they can be forced to provide useful hardware. If consumers want CF slots on their CLIEs, they need to tell Sony and - most importantly - refuse to buy any PDAs that just come with Memory Stick. VHS/Beta, DCC/MiniDisc, DVD-RAM/DVD-R/DVD-RW/+R/+RW , ad nauseum... It will never end.

RE: Desperate times...
helf @ 6/15/2003 2:26:06 PM #
CF rocks! I just passed up a newer os5 palm for a he330 just because it has dual expansion and "cf" :D I have always loved CF.. wish it would get used more in palms...

Memory Stick
73939133 @ 6/15/2003 5:57:12 PM #
"Sony's pushing of its pathetic Memory Stick is even more odious."

I would have tended to agree for previous versions of Memory Stick. They were a fairly nice form factor, but somewhat redundant.

However, these days, Sony is the only company that offers continuous VGA-resolution MPEG recording to flash media, limited only by the size of the Flash memory. That means like 45 minutes of video per Gbyte.

Maybe CF-based cameras could get on the ball there, but they haven't so far. To me, that's a big reason for going with MS cameras, even though the standard is proprietary.



RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/17/2003 12:41:20 PM #
>>>When Sony finally buys the Palm OS (it will get the lame duck Handspring and Palm hardware divisions thrown in so Palm shareholders can make a quick buck) the platform may stabilize.


Looks like the end game is already well on its way:

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/030414/palm10-q.html

Key points:

"Cash provided by financing activities consisted primarily of $20.0 million received from Sony for a 6.25% ownership position in PalmSource and $1.3 million of proceeds from the issuance of Palm common stock, net."

"Total revenues for Palm for the nine months ended February 28, 2003 were $646.2 million, a decrease of $151.4 million or 19% from revenues for the comparable period ended March 1, 2002."

"Total costs and operating expenses - $847,989,000."

"Net loss - $427,561,000."

"The third quarter fiscal year 2003 restructuring actions consisted of workforce reductions, primarily in the U.S., of approximately 140 regular employees from the Solutions Group and approximately 60 regular employees from PalmSource..."

"The fourth quarter fiscal year 2002 restructuring charges related to workforce reductions across all geographic regions of approximately 90 regular employees..."

"The second quarter fiscal year 2002 restructuring charges related to workforce reductions across all geographic regions of approximately 220 regular employees..."

"During the third quarter of fiscal year 2003, the Solutions Group incurred an impairment charge of $102.5 million. This charge includes $100 million related to approximately 39 acres of land owned by the Company in San Jose, California."

Sony will own Palm outright in less than a year.

RE: Desperate times...
Satan @ 6/19/2003 8:53:41 AM #
- How useless is the Treo division? Yes Handspring was able to secure contracts with phone service providers, but have you heard of Nokia? Have you seen the Japanese phone industry? Tiny phones with PIM capability, digital cameras, etc. will come from traditional phone and hardware companies at a faster rate than Handspring could ever have hoped to engineer. Having the Palm OS onboard doesn't give you much leverage in this neck of the woods. Will Treo disappear as quickly as the Springboard did?


And now we have it. Handspring has announced the Treo 600, likely well in advance of when it will actually be available through regular channels. After a year of development, they've produced what looks like a good compromise for a Palm phone. They have finally realized that small size is much more important than any other feature in the real world. Pandering to geeks begging for every conceivable feature to be included in a single phone would have resulted in another brick that any self-respecting professional would be embarassed to be seen with.

But Handspring no longer have the advantage of having a head start on the competition. 12 - 18 month product cycles don't cut it in the PDA scene now. Any more fumbles (quality control issues, delays getting the product released, etc.) will likely be lethal to the company/division.

Sony stepping in and advancing the basic Treo 600 design is what the Palm OS needs right now. (Sony used Ericsson's name to hedge their bets, but can produce better devices with the Palm OS.) The PDA-phone will become the new executive toy that the platform has lacked since the heyday of the Palm V. Whether or not the Treo 600 is successful, this is the design of the future - not the bricks afflicted with featuritis that Sony has released over the past year. The KISS principle that worked with the PalmPilot 1000 still applies.

first

greentruck15 @ 6/13/2003 1:54:24 PM #
I bought an open box Tungsten T from the palm store and it came brand new..it was on special for $160 at the time.

Swiss Cheese

Where Is Link?

Sid_Sid @ 6/13/2003 2:30:34 PM #
I guess I missed it, but where at the Palm webstore is the link/info about the open-box Palms?

Also, I find it hard to believe that Palm is still selling the original Zire for $99.00.

RE: Where Is Link?
Altema @ 6/13/2003 2:48:57 PM #
You have to look around the Palm website, but the URL is www.overstock.com for their home page. I ordered an M130 for my daughter's birthday (her choice), and they shipped it within a few hours. I'll have to let you know how good it is in when it arrives (in comparision to what a new M130 would be).

RE: Where Is Link?
greentruck15 @ 6/13/2003 3:39:23 PM #
This is the palm store link:
Like I said: I bought mine and they said that it probably will not come with the software, however mine was just a store return so it had everything! It wasn't even used..Now I have 2 Tungsten Ts, but it was on sale for a weekend special.

http://store.palm.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=1179667

RE: Where Is Link?
hkklife @ 6/13/2003 3:57:56 PM #
Amazon's got the funky new blue Zire (original, not the 71) for $90 right now with a rebate on top of that. Too bad the $50 trade-in rebate is not applicable for that model ;-)

Seriously, if you follow Palm's history ,there's always a special edition model right before it's put out to pasture and replaced.

We had, in more or less chronilogical order,
IIIse (translucent case model--still my personal favorite Palm ever looks-wise), Claudia Schiffer Palm Vx, Jordan M100, the metallic blue & champagne colored Vx, the Patriotic color m505s, and now the blue Zire.

I don't think I missed any other rare models. I'd anticipate seeing a refreshed Zire (more ram, OS 4.2) at the same price point for the Christmas rush instead of seeing the current Zire dropped below $90 MSRP. Besides, Palm wants people to forgot Graffiti 1 ever existed.

The other Special Edition Palms
Satan @ 6/13/2003 9:40:21 PM #
You forgot a few of the Special Editions:

1) Pamela Anderson Vx - 2001 (silver with black leather case)
2) Shaquille O'Neal IIIc - 2000 (purple + gold, but several reportedly did not work)
3) Anna Nicole Smith IIIe - 1999 (actually was a shell only, with no CPU or memory)
3) Mr. T PalmPilot™ Professional - 1997 (gold with bling bling gold case)

RE: Where Is Link?
ozz @ 6/15/2003 5:45:51 PM #
Wait...you forgot the Martha Stewart Edition Palm...the case is lime green and the "home page" shows the recipe "How to Cook Your Own Goose" :-)
RE: The Other Special Edition Palms
ZPWeeks @ 6/16/2003 6:13:53 PM #
Don't forget the knockoff palm that's big, burly, lo-res, and costs $200 more...


....Oh, whoops, they still sell iPaqs ;-)

RE: Where Is Link?
Altema @ 6/17/2003 4:50:40 PM #
Received my daughter's M130 yesterday. They package them better than the open box items from Palm. Unit arrived with hardware test software installed and a partial charge. Screen, buttons, case, and cradle flawless and like new without noticeable scratches or marks. CD and manual were included, as was the flip cover. Put it in the cradle, hit the button, picked her username and that was it. Quick question about contents was answered by their customer support with only a 60 second hold. Yep, I'll have no problem being a repeat customer.

"As Is" No Warranty

mobilewriter @ 6/14/2003 2:29:26 AM #
Is anyone else troubled by the fact that these Palms that Overstock is selling do not come with the Palm 90-day warranty on Refurbished/Open Stock items?
RE:
RhinoSteve @ 6/14/2003 4:24:40 AM #
That is the trade off with being cheap and not buying a new unit. You either pay for the warranty or roll the dice. Welcome to life!
RE:
ganoe @ 6/14/2003 7:02:55 AM #
Most of them have a 30 day warranty policy from Overstock.com others are 90 days. Pay attention when buying. I do agree, other places that sell refurbs have better warranties than this. Buy open box in a store and you usually get a full warranty.
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