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Comments on: Palm Inc Acquires Handspring

The Boards of Palm Inc and Handspring today announced that they each have unanimously approved a definitive agreement for Palm to acquire Handspring to form a new, stronger market leader in mobile computing and communications. The Palm board also gave final approval for the spin-off of PalmSource, Inc.
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Here they come!

geoken @ 6/4/2003 10:59:57 AM #
I can't wait to see the comments on this one. I hope the server is large enough to take the load!
George

RE: Here they come!
ozz @ 6/4/2003 4:51:25 PM #
*\0/* Hurray! *\0/* Hurray!

Sweet

HeavyUser @ 6/4/2003 11:03:33 AM #
Here is the first one:

Woooo-hoooooo !!!!!!

RE: Sweet
Best of Bread @ 6/4/2003 11:23:59 AM #
This is a great move!! Consolidation is the sign of a maturing industry with increased focus on standardization.

Way to go Palm!!

Pilot/Palm Pro/Palm VII/m505/Tungsten T

RE: Sweet
PalmPowered @ 6/4/2003 4:12:09 PM #
It's about time they got back together. With Palm's new kick-a** attitude and product lineup and Handspring's group of founding gurus, it should be a match made in California. But to be a little on the cautious side, I hope Handspring's management doesn't get fed up with things again and go off on their own to try and start another one.

Anyone know what the name of the new merged company is really going to be?

Palm IIIe/IIIxe/Vx/m500/m505/m515/m550/Tungsten C

RE: Sweet
mondo @ 6/4/2003 7:31:49 PM #
I notice that Jeff Hawkins and Ed Colligan have full time positions, but Donna Dubinsky seems to be a board member without a fulltime position. As CTO, Hawkins should be in his field.

I think the first time round, the big problem was that Palm was part of 3Com, and as such JH,DD and EC were fed up with the big corporate issues. Now they'll be back in a standalone PSG, and will have a lot of autonomy

-----
mondo
Downunder

RE: Sweet
MSTCrowT @ 6/4/2003 8:58:53 PM #
Jeff is CPO (Chief Product Officer) of Handspring, not CTO.

RE: Sweet
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 9:57:35 PM #
Do you think a company the size of Palm Inc should have so many chief? Gawd, talking about inflation of title.
RE: Sweet
wheels_nospam_61 @ 6/4/2003 10:04:54 PM #
Taste Great! No Less Filling!

This is a step in the right direction. It's still too bad that 3Com spun off Palm only after Hawkins, Dubinsky and Colligan left to form Handspring. IMO Handspring was left with little cash to sustain in the dot.com fallout, Palm lost the visionaries that created the company. I'm confident that the folks in both companies will make this work.

Jeff H. if you are reading these posts ---- Treo 6XX with Phone, MP3 Player, 32MB+, SDIO support (WiFi & Bluetooth) would be a big plus. -----

Pilot 5000/Palm Pilot Pro/Palm III/Visor Deluxe/Visor Platinum/Visor Prism +WDL/Tungsten C*/


*Still in the box unused awaiting the Treo 600 or any new Treo that is OS5 or above, 32MB+, MP3, SDIO (WiFi & Bluetooth) and is supported by someone other than Sprint.


RE: Sweet
markgm @ 6/5/2003 12:16:35 AM #
I hope Handspring's management doesn't get fed up with things again and go off on their own to try and start another one.

Them getting fed up and leaving is what got me interested in the Palm platform, and they got my feet wet with the Visor. 8 versions later, I'm looking for something to replace my Clie.

RE: Sweet
xolstis @ 6/5/2003 1:49:42 AM #
PalmSprings?

-the harbinger-

You Could See it Coming

LiveFaith @ 6/4/2003 11:21:29 AM #
HS abandons the PDA only market for the smartfone market ... Palm SG only develops "data-centric" fones. Apparently, a few backdoor meetings have been going on for quite a while.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: You Could See it Coming
LiveFaith @ 6/4/2003 11:41:59 AM #
Intersting. Both stocks up in early trading. That's not usually the case on mergers / acquisitions? Investors see the possibilities and good fit.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: You Could See it Coming
Best of Bread @ 6/4/2003 11:48:26 AM #
Nope.. the market is simply going crazy with blind optimism today.

Pilot/Palm Pro/Palm VII/m505/Tungsten T(with T68i)
RE: You Could See it Coming
StudentDoc @ 6/4/2003 11:52:18 AM #
Yeah, I am not sure if real investors are seeing anything in the merger or if it is just standard speculation.

BTW, I just read that Palm gave Handspring 32% of the new company. You have got to be kidding me. Since when is a failing company with loads of debt and no products worth $100+ million and a third of a much larger, possibly profitible comany (with better management)? Five years ago, I would agree that Handspring had the better management, but their record has left a lot to be desired too. Palm's own decisions make me question the future of Palm more than anything that Microsoft and Pocket PC do.

RE: You Could See it Coming
MV-Jon @ 6/4/2003 11:55:35 AM #
This merger is a definite win. Just the cost savings alone by eliminating dulplicity will boost the stock price.

Jon Niola
President/CEO
Media Vortex, Inc.
RE: You Could See it Coming
StudentDoc @ 6/4/2003 12:00:11 PM #
Jon, I don't mean this in a rude way, but how can merging two companies that lose money then cutting a portion of the new larger companie save money? Handspring brings nothing to the table but dead weight! They have not had any new products in a while and are only rumored to have any planned. They were obviously on the way out and good riddance. This is just more corporate buddy-buddy welfare, transfering 1/3 of Palm's worth to the unfortunate owners of Handspring and their "management."

RE: You Could See it Coming
MV-Jon @ 6/4/2003 12:10:47 PM #
It is an issue of cost savings. Both companies have marketing, HR, finance, and many other duplicate departmnets. There will be cost savings there. Handspring has a successful Treo line that would benefit from having a larger company like Palm to brand and market.

There are the intangibles too. The two founders, Jeff and Donna, they bring a lot of innovation to the table.

It may not look like a great merger to you, but give it time. I think you will be suprised to see how this all works out.

Also, just because they combined into a new company, don't rule out the newly combined company being acquired by an even larger company - think Apple...


Jon Niola
President/CEO
Media Vortex, Inc.

RE: You Could See it Coming
StudentDoc @ 6/4/2003 12:33:50 PM #
Good thoughts...maybe good things will come of it. We will see. I am still a little shocked, though.

RE: You Could See it Coming
kevdo @ 6/4/2003 2:58:20 PM #
Apple is actually a good example of two money-losing companies (Apple circa 1996 and NeXT) merging and gaining a founder back into the fold.

Apple's done pretty well over the last few years...

-Kevin Crossman

RE: You Could See it Coming
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 5:33:36 PM #
Apple's done real well:

"The Cupertino, Calif.-based company said it lost $8 million, or 2 cents per share, on revenue of $1.47 billion for the three months ended Dec. 28. That compares with a net profit of $38 million, or 11 cents per share, on revenue of $1.38 billion for the year-earlier quarter."

http://news.com.com/2102-1040-980841.html

Let's not forget a market share rapidly shrinking to nil. Or that of the Cargo Cultists.

RE: You Could See it Coming
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 6:27:28 PM #
In case nobody notices, AAPL is sitting on 4.53 Billion cash. They can afford to screw up once in a while worth ten or so million dolars.

Palm on the other hand has 264M and at once was burning cash in the range of a hundred M.

The magnitude of the problem is totally different. No wonder that sakamon dude bail but while he can.

RE: You Could See it Coming
hotpaw4 @ 6/4/2003 6:31:58 PM #
Someone wrote:
> Let's not forget a market share rapidly shrinking to nil.

Apple's market share has been *increasing* in several market segments. Note that their revenues went *up* when many other tech companies were seeing falling sales during the same period. That's hardly a good description of shrinking to nil (Try CBM/Amiga, there's a much better example for you).

RE: You Could See it Coming
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 6:48:46 PM #
It increases from 5 to 6 percent. wow, now that's a killer.

POS is about to lose momentum. they hang on to 4.2 too long, OS5.0 is not reaching critical mass fast enough, and 6.0 is sitll in question.

If developer decide POS is a basket case, then the platform is over. It's just a niche player.

Like I say OS 6.0 before christmas, at least a cool hardware that people deeply associated with OS 6.0 (upgradable by Jan/Feb), or the entire thing will slide into oblivion.

Palm doesn't have the cash and muscle to fight from minority market share.

Will Handspring cut lisencing fees?
gfunkmagic @ 6/4/2003 6:49:58 PM #
Quote: "It is an issue of cost savings. Both companies have marketing, HR, finance, and many other duplicate departmnets. There will be cost savings there. Handspring has a successful Treo line that would benefit from having a larger company like Palm to brand and market."

What about HS's PalmOS lisencing fees? Somoen wrote on another forum that by merging with PSG, HS will significantly reduce teh lisencing cost associated with PalmOS! Is this true?

----------------------------------------
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

-Pablo Picasso.

RE: You Could See it Coming
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 7:45:41 PM #
more like Palm Inc is loosing a good revenue stream to me.
RE: You Could See it Coming
DarthRepublican @ 6/4/2003 10:03:57 PM #
> What about HS's PalmOS lisencing fees? Somoen wrote on
> another forum that by merging with PSG, HS will
> significantly reduce teh lisencing cost associated with > PalmOS! Is this true?

But PalmSG is spinning off PalmSource, its OS unit. This would mean that merger or no merger the both PSG and HS would be paying PalmSource licensing fees for the PalmOS once the spin-off is complete.

RE: You Could See it Coming
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 10:10:48 PM #
no it's not. Don't pull an Enron on us.

Before the merger there were 2 companies. After the merger and before the split there will only be ONE company, regardless if Palm Inc want you to believe they have two headquarters and two accounting.

If The people who makes the decission are still the same, and all the players are in one buildings. We are just talking about corporate law gimmick.

Not after the palmsource is doing IPO and having seperate boards will I accept all these talk about there are 2 companies.

RE: You Could See it Coming
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 11:39:31 PM #
And I hate hate hate to say this, but Blue is correct.

RE: You Could See it Coming
hotpaw4 @ 6/5/2003 12:13:35 AM #
someone wrote:
>After the merger and before the split there will only be ONE company

Read the press release again. The split happens before or at the same time as the merger. Thus there will be 2 companies both before (PalmCombo and Handspring), and after (PalmSpring and PalmSource).

RE: You Could See it Coming
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 12:19:17 AM #
Let's first see if it happens. The best-laid plans... this isn't such a great economy too, you know.

RE: You Could See it Coming
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 12:43:45 AM #
I read the Press release, and I can't find any specific dates. You wouldn't think they are waffling over the split and waiting for a chance to make more buck in recovering market would you?

nah.. that couldn't be...

(so in the meantime, pardon me in saying there is only one company with bunch of subsidiaries)

Bad news!

djh @ 6/4/2003 11:22:12 AM #
One F****d company + one F****d company = one slightly larger F****d Company.

Both of these needed to merge with companies that had other more viable product lines. Apple and HS as once rumoured moght have worked.

Can't see Palm Springs getting anywhere. As suggested on another site, Sony will probably end up owning the whole pile of poo within a year.

Cheers!!

RE: Bad news!
Best of Bread @ 6/4/2003 11:33:37 AM #
Sony owning Palm Springs..

Only if the whole PDA market is looking for Gameboy toys to hook up to the desktop and Enterprise applications.

Sony = Toys/Recreation
Palm = Business Productivity

Pilot/Palm Pro/Palm VII/m505/Tungsten T

RE: Bad news!
HeavyUser @ 6/4/2003 11:34:39 AM #
troll alert!

RE: Bad news!
StudentDoc @ 6/4/2003 11:41:24 AM #
I don't know but I think its another dumb move. Not the first by Palm, Inc. Just when things have been looking better, the "management" team pulls another dumb stunt.

It looks to me that Palm is trying to save Handspring (and prevent them from failing outright--bad press for the whole Palm industry and their new spinoff) since Handspring has been failing for years. They have absolutely no product line now, just a rumored phone that will be outdated by the time it is released in October. I am not sure that is even worth 50 cents to Palm, much less the millions they will end up paying in stock.

I guess the boys that abandoned Palm to start Handspring still have some pull there. Good grief.

RE: Bad news!
Doo @ 6/4/2003 3:26:14 PM #
I get tired of hearing Handspring has been dead for "YEARS". They fell from grace when Sony entered the market with all the invoation and such. But that was just not that long ago. True they were/are in a bit of $$ trouble but this isn't charity.

RE: Bad news!
calamari @ 6/4/2003 4:45:31 PM #
my god, with the way people go on about how much palm is dying, you would expect that they would have been bankrupt years ago.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
RE: Bad news!
rsc1000 @ 6/4/2003 10:45:40 PM #
>>I get tired of hearing Handspring has been dead for "YEARS". They fell from grace when Sony entered the market with all the invoation and such. But that was just not that long ago. True they were/are in a bit of $$ trouble but this isn't charity.

Exactly. Apparently, the solution to all of Palms woes is simple: just hire all of the genius arm-chair analysts on this website to run the company. Seriously, "handpring has been failing for 5 years" - i keep reading these over-the-top, exagerations on this website and i have to laugh my ass off. And as for Palm being this huge 'loser company' - I'd say that - a few mistakes aside - they are quite adept at doing what they do. Any other company making $$$ in this industry right now? Gee, HP and Dell are pretty stable - so we don't whine about there impending doom at the hands of bad PDA sales/profit. But of course, they actually lose $$$ on their PDA units, but they have tons of $$ from PC sales. Palm isnt making $$$ at the moment - with a drop of over 20% in PDA sales in the last year nobody is. But they have managed to tread water during the crappiest time for the industry and time will tell how they make it count when the market picks up. All of the nay sayers said Palm would be gone 2 yrs ago - after the intro of PPC. I'd say that hanging onto 40% of the market - and im just talking about PalmSG, not PalmSource - is a pretty good testament to a reasonably well managed company, especially considering who they are up against.

RE: Bad news!
TooMuch @ 6/4/2003 11:00:26 PM #
Thank God most of these comments are not the thoughts of those who are in really in charge. Can you imagine no PalmInfocenter or any other such source? There would be no need for such because...these "brains" would kill the PDA market completely:)

RE: Bad news!
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 11:15:11 PM #
IF PIC poster rants would be a guide, Palm Inc. should have put VG, ARM and non proprietary slots 2 years ago. But instead, the bigwig at Palm inc decide a steady dose of talk abotu Zen, simplicty, and "who needs multimedia" talks are more than enough of a feature PDA should have.
RE: Bad news!
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 11:40:59 PM #
And again -- is this a bad night for me! -- Blue is correct.

RE: Bad news!
hotpaw4 @ 6/5/2003 12:18:46 AM #
someone wrote:
> Gee, HP and Dell are pretty stable

HP has laid off thousands of employees over the last couple years.

> should have put VG, ARM and non proprietary slots 2 years ago.

PalmSG employs competant design engineers, who understand things like software compatibility, component costs and availability in volume, cubic inches in size, refresh power and standby battery life.

RE: Bad news!
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 12:38:17 AM #
>>PalmSG employs competant design engineers, who understand things like software compatibility, component costs and availability in volume, cubic inches in size, refresh power and standby battery life.

and yet, this T|T design accident still fall into the market.

So what happened? Did the HP's engineers go to better school or something? afterall they squeeze out more battery live, more feature and packaged it into smaller chasis at lower price tag. And HP didn't dish out half baked audio system either.

So, what happen? did the sliding d-pad taxed their deisgn competency so much that they forgot to put more memory and transreflective screen? lol...

RE: Bad news!
hotpaw4 @ 6/5/2003 2:19:17 AM #
someone wrote:
> Did the HP's engineers go to better school or something?

I don't know about how things are now after all of HP's recent layoffs, but a decade or two ago HP Labs was among the top engineering research centers in the country.

> forgot to put more memory and transreflective screen?

more RAM and transflective displays are features that have both advantages and disadvantages. These tradeoffs change over time as technology advances.

Note that the TT is not PalmSG's best selling model, but it still outsells many of HP non-best selling models (try comparing unit sales of both companies #3 or #4 selling models for a better comparison). My call is that it's not due to engineering, but because HP choose to license the PDA OS with inferior usability, and doesn't do a great job marketing some of their products either.

RE: Bad news!
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 11:40:08 AM #
>>>These tradeoffs change over time as technology advances.

yeah, apparently time is running slower in Palm inc tech development office.

>>>Note that the TT is not PalmSG's best selling model, but it still outsells many of HP non-best selling models (try comparing unit sales of both companies #3 or #4 selling models for a better comparison). My call is that it's not due to engineering, but because HP choose to license the PDA OS with inferior usability, and doesn't do a great job marketing some of their products either.

Well, kinda hard to compete against $99 dragonball. It'll take at least another half year to bring down PPC price to $160-180 level, another half year to finally come out with convincing competitor in the $99 market.

but of course by that's mopping up the last Palm best selling category. I don't think you want to be around to see the blood bath when it finally happens. What will palm do? start selling zire at $35?

PDA OS with inferior usability? well PPC is not the OS that cannot push for more peripherals sale and higher value apps. Try selling a $40 games or $99 WiFi CF if you can on POS. And you wonder why there is no big OEM picking up POS. There is no money in it. POS is not growing. All the smart developers have left the building and gone to the greenr pasture, where they can write fancier apps and make more money. OS 5.0? is it even worth spending time developing for it? The market is too small for high end apps, and the OS 6.0 is rumored to be different again. ...mmm... so whats left? the old 4.2 ...

RE: Bad news!
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 8:54:09 PM #
>>>yeah, apparently time is running slower in Palm inc tech development office.

-- now *that* made me laugh!!

Uh... but what about the PalmSource "full spinoff"?

mikemusick @ 6/4/2003 11:40:39 AM #
To heck with the Springboard acquisition - that was pretty much a foregone conclusion - it's cutting the PalmSource umbilical that has me concerned about product futures.

I question whether PS can make it as a fully independent concern; the short track record is a mixed bag. Once they start to founder, knowing how corporate egos work, too much time will pass before it's realized by their customers that they're sinking. It will then be too late to salvage things, which will then take down the entire OS segment with it. Scary.

Sony to buy both

mikecane @ 6/4/2003 11:49:44 AM #
Good morning, Ryan! Sleeping late again?

So where's the frigging link to the Predictions article so PIC can crow that it reported this the day *before* Brighthand -- and *last* year to boot?

And, yes, that is next year's #1 Prediction: Sony to Buy PalmSpring

And #2 is:
Sony revives BeOS

Unfortunately, prediction #3 is that there will not be a 2005...

RE: Sony to buy both
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 12:04:27 PM #
Wouldn't SONY be more interested in buying PalmSource, assuming the umbilical cord is finally cut?

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 12:10:37 PM #
Oh, they couldn't buy it alone. And leave the licensees to hang? You forget Garmin, Kyocera, Samsung, Fossil, etc.

No, first they'd grab the hardware -- and then slowly twist off the licensing spigot.

And also bring back BeOS to run on the new PlayStation-whatever they'll be doing for 2005 (provided that there is a 2005 -- I predict there will not be).

RE: Sony to buy both
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 12:10:45 PM #
Or maybe HandSpring will hire HandEra as consultants and give SONY a run for their money? Not likely, I know, but I would like to finally get spreadsheets to work in landscape mode on a color highres+ screen on a handheld with true dual expansion slots without getting a PPC.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Sony to buy both
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 12:15:59 PM #
"Oh, they couldn't buy it alone. And leave the licensees to hang? You forget Garmin, Kyocera, Samsung, Fossil, etc."

Wouldn't SONY rather receive licensing fees from Garmin, Kyocera, Samsung, Fossil, etc., than pay licensing fees to PalmSource?

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Sony to buy both
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 12:18:46 PM #
I'm going to go out on a limb here ... but I think there will be a 2005. Getting tired of 2.5 correct predictions?

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 12:27:56 PM #
Have you seen Sony license PlayStation? Kutaragi's long-term goal is to *crush* Windows and PCs with Sony's parallel-CPU PS-based machines. Running BeOS (or SonyOS).

Hey, I'm up to 1.5 correct so far -- and it's just June!

#1 and half of #2.

(I haven't bothered to look at the rest of the list. I'm lazy...)

RE: Sony to buy both
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 12:36:23 PM #
"Kutaragi's long-term goal is to *crush* Windows and PCs with Sony's parallel-CPU PS-based machines. Running BeOS (or SonyOS)."

Before 2005?

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 12:38:47 PM #
RE: Sony to buy both
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 12:40:18 PM #
Maybe you were right about that SONY Borg analogy!

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 12:54:26 PM #
Most people take the accomplishment of the Playstation for granted. It was kick-*** at the time, a real leap in technology and a huge gamble for Sony. Now Kutaragi is being groomed to take over the reins of *all* of Sony -- and his vision is of a PSed world, much like Gates's was of an MSed world. When Worlds Collide! I bet on Kutaragi. Gates is a bloated old idiot resting on memories of thieveries past. Kutaragi hasn't had to steal a thing to get ahead. (How's that Xbox doing, Gates, old bean? Hahahaha!)

And I write all this as someone who cannot stand two tech things: *videogames* and *cellphones*! I loathe them both. Yet I can admire the PS.

As for 2005, that has nothing to do with tech. I shouldn't have brought it up. It will not appear on the official Predictions list. Go about your life as is. Nothihihihihnng will go wngro.

RE: Sony to buy both
UGlee @ 6/4/2003 1:02:53 PM #
Hate SONY. If SONY buys both, The only thing I can do is to say farewell to my *favorite* computing platform and gadget.

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 1:06:56 PM #
Have fun with your Dell Axim VII.

Better heed the wife when she says she wants the "Sony Palm" for her birthday.

Better obey the kiddies when they say they want the PlayStation 9 for Xmas.

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 1:10:00 PM #
Oh, besides all that, I think Kutaragi will create a New Sony that many will like. Damn, that'd be a welcomed change! I'd be -- needle to the current Old Sony -- SHOCKED and AWED by it.

RE: Sony to buy both
Minstrel @ 6/4/2003 5:34:44 PM #
Yo Mike!

Betcha 20 bucks that there is a 2005!

heh.

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 5:56:18 PM #
How will I be here to collect?

RE: Sony to buy both
cbowers @ 6/4/2003 6:26:57 PM #
Get him to pay you now, and you pay him back (if able) in 2005 ;-)

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 7:37:01 PM #
I like your thinking!! You should be an agent!!

RE: Sony to buy both
rsc1000 @ 6/4/2003 11:00:14 PM #
>> I bet on Kutaragi. Gates is a bloated old idiot resting on memories of thieveries past. Kutaragi hasn't had to steal a thing to get ahead. (How's that Xbox doing, Gates, old bean? Hahahaha!)

LOL! Seriously, whether or not Sony actually wants to/plans to buy PalmSG AND PalmSource - i hope to heck this doesn't happen. I think that such a move would be impulsive for Sony - but not good for their makrtshare (of total PDAs in the long run). It would just be Sony versus 100 different PocketPC liscensees - and Sony devices would be scorned by most people eventually because they run what would now be a proprietary OS. People at Palm know this. The question is: how much $$$ will it take to get them to pour their baby down the drain?

RE: Sony to buy both
TooMuch @ 6/4/2003 11:07:04 PM #
Maybe Sony will buy the Milky Way galaxy and make it profitable too:)

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 11:42:07 PM #
You really think there are going to be all these PPC licensees forever? You'll be lucky if there are three: hp, perhaps Dell, and Toshiba. And they'll be splitting the PPC pie. Sony will not have to split the Palm/Be/SonyOS pie.

Back in the early 80s, in pre-PC days, you would have said the same thing about home computers: Oh, Apple can't win against all these CP/M, et al, makers! What PC makers are there today, really? hp, Dell, Gateway, Sony, and Apple. Goodbye Cromemco, Northgate, etc, etc.

RE: Sony to buy both
abosco @ 6/4/2003 11:57:32 PM #
Actually, I wouldn't even count Toshiba in that list. It looks like they're on the outs. Looks like it's Palm and Sony vs. HP and Dell, but really HP vs. Dell, but not Palm vs. Sony. Sony had more marketshare growth than any other company including Dell, and Palm is the current leader. HP and Dell grew, but at the expense of other PPC OEM's.

I think it's up to the final four.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: Sony to buy both
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 12:09:36 AM #
Ehrr.. excuse me mister pda expert.

last quarter number, Dell and HP grew, while Palm inc nose dive. Q1 was the first full quarter for Dell.

I am not sure about you, but my math says, you can't take market share from growing number without thinking whatever happen to the big chunks Palm is losing.

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 12:16:20 AM #
Toshiba on the way out?! Where'd this come from? Aside from the fact they are slow as frozen molasses to provide bug fixes -- and even slower to *explain* them -- I thought they were doing well. The discontinued e740 is now at $300-$350, which is a real bargain for a dual-slot WiFied PPC. (I'll refrain from saying it also puts the $499 Tungsten C to shame -- but it does!!)

RE: Sony to buy both
abosco @ 6/5/2003 4:19:32 PM #
"I am not sure about you, but my math says, you can't take market share from growing number without thinking whatever happen to the big chunks Palm is losing."

I have no idea what you just said. I understood math, but you didn't apply any math anywhere. I can't even understand you anymore.

Palm SG loses marketshare, but isn't a better possibility that they lost their marketshare to Sony? Like I said, they're as large as HP, and Sony doubles every year. You always fail to acknowledge that. Is it because it refutes your claim that Palm OS isn't growing?

As for Toshiba, they're stagnating. If I remember right, their marketshare was in competition with HandSpring near 5%... that's less than Dell.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 8:55:41 PM #
>>>As for Toshiba, they're stagnating. If I remember right, their marketshare was in competition with HandSpring near 5%... that's less than Dell.

--- hmmm, maybe they will drop PPC for PalmOS? Maybe *they* will finally produce the 320x480 WiFied PDA?!!?

RE: Sony to buy both
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 9:22:59 PM #
I bet if Toshiba doesn't change a thing in E740 and just put POS. I bet it'll be hailed the most advance and thought provoking PDA. lol...

.. just add POS to any PDA. Like ketchup, It'll taste better.

RE: Sony to buy both
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 9:45:37 PM #
>>>.. just add POS to any PDA. Like ketchup, It'll taste better

abosco, help!! He's getting on my good side again. (Good thing it'll be an early night for me. Offline in 25 minutes... you two go at it. I'll come in with a mop in the ayem and clean up the blood.)

Impact on Treo 600?

JonAcheson @ 6/4/2003 11:59:14 AM #
So how does this affect the Treo 600? Will it get folded into the Tungsten line as the replacement for the Tungsten W? Was it intended to do so all along?

I'd like to see an OS5 equivalent of the Treo 90, which was a pretty sweet little package. No camera, no phone, just OS5, SD, headphone jack, flip cover, D-Pad and the treo/tungsten style thumb-board. Make it thin as possible.

Jon Acheson



"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
Best of Bread @ 6/4/2003 12:25:20 PM #
Forget the Treo 600. The combo phone is dead. The real question should be if Palm is going to introduct a new Tungsten T with more RAM and processing speed.



Pilot 1000/Palm Pro/Palm VII/m505/Tungsten T(with T68i)

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 12:32:50 PM #
It "looks" like PalmSpring will have a so-called datacentric OS4 PDA-phone and a more voicecentric OS5 phone. What they do next, if recent apocalyptic productions don't come true, is still anybody's guess.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Impact on Treo 600?
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 12:39:25 PM #
>>>if recent apocalyptic productions don't come true

Hahahahaha!!!

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
mtt @ 6/4/2003 1:40:58 PM #
I second JohnAcheson... give me an OS5 equivalent of the Treo 90. NO CAMERA, NO PHONE, just add OS5, D-Pad, Bluetooth, a headphone jack, and a high rez screen to the existing setup. Keep the great funcionality of the Treo thumboard too.

MTT
RE: Impact on Treo 600?
MJGunn @ 6/4/2003 2:22:28 PM #
>>I'd like to see an OS5 equivalent of the Treo 90, >>which was a pretty sweet little package. No camera, >>no phone, just OS5, SD, headphone jack, flip cover, >>D-Pad and the treo/tungsten style thumb-board. Make >>it thin as possible.

Add a transflective screen in there, and you've just about described my dream palm (the true dream would be no keyboard, but virtual grafitti instead)

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
robrecht @ 6/4/2003 2:30:23 PM #
"I'd like to see an OS5 equivalent of the Treo 90, which was a pretty sweet little package. No camera, no phone, just OS5, SD, headphone jack, flip cover, D-Pad and the treo/tungsten style thumb-board. Make it thin as possible"

"Add a transflective screen in there, and you've just about described my dream palm (the true dream would be no keyboard, but virtual grafitti instead)"

Let's see, make it user upgradable to OS6, add a second SDIO slot or built in WiFi & bluetooth, give it a large battery and the supplemental USB (?) battery like the 600, develop a deal with cheap Verizon 3G data (GSM for people who choose to be born in Europe), check to make sure that the aforementioned VG really means 320x480 screen resolution, have Jeff Hawkins issue a public apology for Handspring's thumboards, use a Palm universal adaptor to insure XT keyboard compatibility, throw in at least 50 MB of usable RAM, and I think we're making some progress here ...

Thanks, robrecht

Combo phone dead?
iJITSU @ 6/4/2003 3:00:54 PM #
If you think that the converged device is dead then I have to question your insight. I think in five years a handheld that doesn't have wireless voice/data or a phone that doesn't have robust PIM will be about as in demand as a black and white TV. Smartphones are the future.

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
Galapagos @ 6/4/2003 4:36:14 PM #
"I'd like to see an OS5 equivalent of the Treo 90, which was a pretty sweet little package. No camera, no phone, just OS5, SD, headphone jack, flip cover, D-Pad and the treo/tungsten style thumb-board. Make it thin as possible"

Well, isn't that NEARLY Sony's TG-Series: No camera, no phone, just OS5, Memory Stick, headphone jack, flip cover, Jog dial and the treo/tungsten style thumb-board?

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
hotpaw4 @ 6/4/2003 5:04:56 PM #
someone wrote:
>just add OS5, D-Pad, ... and a high rez screen to the existing setup.

I like the Treo 90 form factor also; but where do you find room for the D-Pad and for the bigger battery that the hires display requires?

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
gfunkmagic @ 6/4/2003 5:12:49 PM #
First of all, if you think the new PDS-HS is going to drop the Treo line, then you're a friggin ignorant fool! The whole point of acquiring HS is gain the potentially lucrative Treo line. The Treo 600 is creating quite a buzz already despite soem misgivings (mine included), but it may indeed becmoe a blockbuster product. The new company will now have even more resources to put into the Treo line. Say bye-bye to the Tungsten W and heloo to the Treo brand!

----------------------------------------
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

-Pablo Picasso.

Picture of Treo600!!!
smak @ 6/4/2003 5:23:59 PM #
Hey guys, Treo600 actually will be the star of the newly founded company. It's easy to tell.

look at the picture from press release. Jeff Hawkins (the right most guy) actually is holding the new Treo 600! You can actually see the picture of the new Treo.

And it's even in the press release photo.

You can either use photoshop to enlarge it or go to treocentral.com and check the news.

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
JonAcheson @ 6/4/2003 5:53:48 PM #
Galapagos:
Well, isn't that NEARLY Sony's TG-Series: No camera, no phone, just OS5, Memory Stick, headphone jack, flip cover, Jog dial and the treo/tungsten style thumb-board?

It's the right idea, and but for Memory Stick, no D-Pad, incompatible sound APIs, and Sony's terrible membrane thumb-boards, I'd have bought one.

Jon Acheson

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
michaelcpowell @ 6/4/2003 6:09:02 PM #
Why would the merger impact the 600? Seems to me that products like the 600 would be part of the Handspring value since Palm does not have a product that is truly functional as a phone (including the W) and the 600 is primarily a phone.
RE: Impact on Treo 600?
TooMuch @ 6/4/2003 11:10:09 PM #
Look for an updated W with the OS, processor and memory of the C by January 2004.

RE: Impact on Treo 600?
rsc1000 @ 6/4/2003 11:10:35 PM #
Palm is buying HS for 2 main reasons:
1 - the Treo line (or really - the Treo brand that HS has spent the last 2 yrs marketing - you don't just through that brand asset away).
2 - the relationships that HS has built with TelCos


New Name?!?

Catchem @ 6/4/2003 12:09:56 PM #
What is this that the soon to be merged Palm and Handspring are going to change its name after the completion of the merger? Is Palm a bad brand name or something?

RE: New Name?!?
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 12:13:24 PM #
It'll be called PHalm, Inc.

RE: New Name?!?
kevdo @ 6/4/2003 12:13:40 PM #
I missed that in the fine print but you're right it does say that.

I think that's a horribly bad idea. Both Palm and Handspring have great name recognition. Rebranding, especially to something awful like "Palm Solutions Group" would be terrible. PSG is fine for a division within the company but bad as an actual company name.

Palmspring would be even worse.

That said, I do think this is a good move.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: New Name?!?
benw @ 6/4/2003 12:24:38 PM #
Why, Palm Springs, of course! ;-)

- Ben Weber

RE: New Name?!?
Quaffy @ 6/4/2003 12:32:26 PM #
Remember, a new company name doesn't mean getting rid of a BRAND name. They know how valuable the "Palm" name it. Examples: Did American Airlines change in your mind when "AMR Corporation" became the holding company? Did "NBC" change anything in the name because GE actually owns them? This list goes on and on - just part of the legal aquisition game.
RE: New Name?!?
mikemusick @ 6/4/2003 1:49:14 PM #
>Why, Palm Springs, of course! ;-)

And the management outlook will always be sunny!

:-D

RE: New Name?!?
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 1:53:33 PM #
http://www.palmsprings.com/

"I have detailed information about the situation...which completely proves that what they allege are illusions . . . They lie every day."

RE: New Name
rueyeet @ 6/4/2003 2:44:08 PM #
I'm sure they do recognize the value of at least the Palm brand name. But it's probably a good idea, as far as brand-building goes, to rename the new hardware company.

There's too many people who call a Sony or Handspring or whatever handheld a Palm, or even a Palm Pilot. I'm sure the licensees of the Palm OS would be grateful if the Palm brand wasn't tied quite so inextricably with both hardware and OS.

Renaming helps solidify the perception that the merged Palm Solutions/Handspring really is just another Palm OS licensee, and not a favored partner, and will also subtly give the impression of having shed the misfortunes of both previous companies in favor of a bold new start.

I expect the OS company to continue to be called Palm and sell the Palm OS, and the hardware division to choose a completely new name. Really, it makes a lot of sense from a branding perspective.

RE: New Name?!?
abosco @ 6/4/2003 3:24:24 PM #
The software company is already called PalmSource. Palm Inc would be extremely dumb to change their name. Someone called it before - what will happen is they'll still be named Palm SG but their smartphones will be HandSpring branded. That makes the most sense.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
RE: New Name?!?
palmgator @ 6/4/2003 4:53:21 PM #
apple buys the new comapny and steve names it
...........Handjob


Training sales and real estate professionals on effective palm use!

The new company name

mikecane @ 6/4/2003 12:33:55 PM #
Here's the shortlist of the combined Palm+Handpsring new company names:

DieMicrosoftDieDieDie!

Don'tKillUsPocketPC, Inc.

SoonToBeBoughtBySony, Inc.

EricTheRedSinkhole, Inc.

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 1:36:21 PM #
... and then there are two.

(well there goes 2 of my prediction for 2003)

RE: The new company name
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 1:48:17 PM #
Well, look who crawled out into the sunlight! One of Gates's, er, ah, "accidents." When was the last time he called you, er, "son"?

Hey, abosco!! Look who's here in the DAYTIME!!

So, tell me, where's the success of the NEC PPC? And the Razor PPC? And where is that JVC PPC that was shown at CeBIT?

PPC = WeCan'tALLMakeMoney, Inc.

I don't think the Razor and NEC PDAs would've sunk had they gone PalmOS...

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 2:18:12 PM #
Relax pal, Microsoft can lost all the minor players and still have HTC, Dell and HP to take over the rest of PDA space, let alone still having company like Mitac, Legend and Acer.

The last 3 alone is enough to squeeze Palmspring dry. HTC and microsoft marketing muscle alone can stomp PSG in about a year. Either Dell or HP? Can you say dead Tungsten?

what about the combined PPC scene against Palm spring and Sony?

let's just say by December the only Palm market share model worth talking are: Low price organizer like Zire/m130, and glitzy entertainment PDA for the MTV crowd from Sony like SJ33/NX.

The rest is snuffed good.


RE: The new company name
helf @ 6/4/2003 2:58:25 PM #
If PPC can kill palm.. why haven't they done that yet? :D

RE: The new company name
hotpaw4 @ 6/4/2003 3:04:03 PM #
someone wrote:
> Microsoft can lost all the minor players and still ... take over the rest of PDA space, ...

Microsoft is late. Pen Windows was supposed to have taken over the PDA space about a decade ago. What's taking them so long? Why can't MS come up with a PDA brand name that is as recognizable as either Palm or Handspring?

> and still have HTC, Dell and HP to take over ...

According to recent reports, HP has been losing market share in the PDA space, and Sony has been gaining more market share than Dell.

> let alone still having company like Mitac, Legend and Acer.

Acer and Legend are also PalmOS licensee's.

RE: The new company name
abosco @ 6/4/2003 3:04:38 PM #
You see, this I don't understand. Not even you, Mike, think PalmJob/Sony/PalmSource can get out of a mess like this. PPC is on the rise, and there is quite a simple explaination for it. Better looking specs, sometimes smaller, and cheaper. You mean for $299 the only OS 5 choice I have is a Zire? Something is wrong... well here's my own half-hearted statement:

Sony revamps the product line starting September. Everything has at least OS 5 and a 200 MHz processor with a 320x320 screen. All Sonys from $200-$400 are based on the T415 form with a .39 inch thickness with much of the area taken up by a battery. The more expensive the model, the more features and specifications are put in. It's the exact opposite of what PalmSource has been teaching all these years, but I'm sorry to say PalmSource is taking the wrong path by releasing specialized licensees. Oh, and the NX line will be revived with a killer machine. Everything the NX80v should have been, plus something new... and I can't quite put my finger on it yet though; I'm normally good at this.

If this doesn't happen... it's bad for everybody. There needs to be a serious revolution. You can't keep having an OS that runs on a $99 16 MHz device on the same thing as an $500 machine at 400 MHz... something's wrong. The OS is dependent on applications, but if I can't get some native file formats in RAM, what good is the OS???

You know what an easy fix is? PalmSource gets off its ass and waves in a licensee for the mainstream market. No entertainment Palms. No business line. No entry level line. I'm not talking about an Aceeca or a Rim-Job. There needs to be Palm-based Axims. The market demands it.

Honest, it's so simple. Sony has the resources for it. They could seriously squash PPC given their best shot at it, but it doesn't seem to be a top priority.

One last thing I'd like to throw in is OS 6. It's either hit or miss. Hit, there will be a big migration. Miss, there will be a big migration.

People have been crying Palm's death for years, and it's never even come close to coming true. But something is dangerously awry if nothing is changed. All about OS 6, Sony's mindset, and a new licensee for the mainstream. Gee, now that wasn't too tough.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 3:04:41 PM #
...slow kill. :P

but seriously, of course it won't be instantenous. Just like Amiga's and Apples demise to obscurity is not happening overnight.

I mean look at OS5.0? Has it bring the promised new market share? It hasn't. It's a mild failure. For all practical purposes it was just an ARM port of 4.2.

So now everybody is talking about how OS 6.0 will stop the bleeding market share and regain POS old glory.

well.... can't say much before it's being release can we?

RE: The new company name
hotpaw4 @ 6/4/2003 3:16:43 PM #
someone wrote:
> Apples demise to obscurity

Apple has been gaining market share recently, and gets far more press than their actual market share would indicate. Various brand name regonition studies have "Apple" ranked nearly as high as "Microsoft". Hardly obscure.

Commodore, however, did run itself bankrupt.

RE: The new company name
helf @ 6/4/2003 4:16:30 PM #
"I mean look at OS5.0? Has it bring the promised new market share? It hasn't. It's a mild failure. For all practical purposes it was just an ARM port of 4.2." ..

umm.. Isn't that all it's suppose to be? Moving the OS to a different CPU...

RE: The new company name
abosco @ 6/4/2003 4:38:38 PM #
Shhh! Don't let him know PalmSource has a plan to gradually restructure the Palm OS!

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
RE: The new company name
twalk @ 6/4/2003 4:58:05 PM #
MS is going to kill PPC in the next few years unless something radical shakes up the market. (This is pretty obvious when you look at the market overlaps.)

Palm needs to hit the vertical markets hard, else Nokia is going to kill them.


RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 5:15:00 PM #
Of course MS is going to kill PPC sooner or later, just like it kills dos and windows and make XP. Smartphones , PPC etc. will sooner or alter be merged. But who cares about 3-5 years into the future. There won't even be cellphones by then.

----------

The only way Palm can survive:
-$299 machine, PXA255, 3-400mHz, either BT/WiFi or CF slot.
-OS6.0. whatever it is, it has to look good, plenty of eye candy, fast, plenty of games/multimedia, runs all old sofwares, and more importantly NEW KILLER APPS. (the era of PIM organizer is friggin over about two years ago). Hook to enterprise server/application/whatever else enterprise have.
-refresh Zire2, everything SJ33 can do in stylish package $99-$150.

knowing that?

I don't think Palm Inc can pull it.
I don't see Palm Inc can out price, out feature PPC.
OS 6.0 is nowhere to be seen. OS 5.0 is a no go for anything above $299. Probably SOny can add a couple of gimmicks to freshen up OS 5.0, but even the NX tricks are getting old really fast without stronger OS and more killer apps.
Treo is a basket case, give it up, Too expensive, ugly, no killer apps. Everybody does PIM on smartphones at half the price and double the style dose.

bottom line? there goes another 10% market slide for 2003. Better start selling that Zire at $40 bucks to stem the market share lost.

But Zire is an organizer, people doesn't splurge $90-200 dolars worth of Apps suring its ownership life time...

so.. back to squre one.

Palm Requiem (again)
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 5:39:53 PM #
Palm is losing me for these reasons:

1 - No one-piece 320x480-screened device with built-in WiFi

2 - Perceived superiority in video: Pocket TV plays MPEGs without going through these QuickTime hoops Kinoma seemingly demands

3 - MP3 is better out of the box (WMP vs -- what? You have to download that dog, RealPlayer?) -- *out of the box*. I don't have to first research what MP3 player is "best." I have one to start out with and can improve it from there.

5 - Textmaker. Period!

6 - FONTS FONTS FONTS FONTS and oh yeah FONTS!

7 - That hp 1910 screen (soon to be on that hp 22xx which is my proposed upcoming switch to PPC purchase). Don't give me this frigging nonsense about how the Tung C and Z71 have great screens -- I'm sick of White Castle square hamburger "screens". Give me some damned real estate! I'm tired of screens that look like they belong on toys.

8 - Form factor has caught up to Palm: hp 22xx will have HandEra's innovation -- CF and SDIO slots. Alas, poor HandEra!

9 - MS Reader -- hey, there are ebooks in that format.

10 - Aggressive pricing -- come on! $399 for the hp 22xx vs $499 for the Tung C? Giggle, giggle. Sure, I'll have to buy a CF WiFi card, but I'll *still* wind up with advantages 1-9 above -- as well as this biggie:

11 - GRAFFITI! Shove Jot! Shove G2! Block Recognizer gives me a smoother writing transition to PPC than J/G2 would give me to the next PalmOS device!

I'm not alone in seeing this. And I've not been brainwhacked by those semi-autistic blithe sociopaths at MS. Never been invited to their Show & Tells. Never been given free goodies. I've done the research, fondled the goods, and judged for myself.

Now why the hell can't *Palm* see this? And *Sony*?

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 6:12:12 PM #
-but you got scrabble and monopoly! that got to count for something... woo hooo...

next Palm killer app: bundled Hangman!

RE: The new company name
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 6:22:41 PM #
In the Palm version of Hangman, it kills itself before you even choose a letter.

God, it's awful to agree with this BlueAnon. I feel unclean.

abosco! Come and shoot me!

RE: The new company name
twalk @ 6/4/2003 6:36:24 PM #
"Of course MS is going to kill PPC sooner or later, just like it kills dos and windows and make XP.
Smartphones , PPC etc. will sooner or alter be merged. But who cares about 3-5 years into the future.
There won't even be cellphones by then."

Are you really predicting that there won't be cell phones in 3-5 years???

MS will kill PPC in a few years (actually let it die of neglect).

Why?

1) It already has overlapping capabilities compared to XP & Office. In 2 more years there will even be greater overlap. Surely no one here is stupid enough to think that MS will allow anything to threaten their OS & Office monopoly.

2) MS gets about $15 for PPC & Pocket Office. They get about $300 for XP & Office. If PPC starts making up any kind of significant sales, it will start hurting the OS & Office numbers.

3) PPC sells in a year what XP sells in 8 hours. In reality the entire PDA market is a pathetic tiny little niche.

4) XP handhelds nearly PPC in size are running in labs now. In 2 years they'll be PPC size, weight, battery life, and nearly as cheap. *I'm* getting an XP handheld when they get down to this.

5) PPC hardware makers and MS are all losing money on PPC.

6) PPC business customers are typically MS shops, and will quickly dump PPC for XP handhelds in order to reduce support and internal product development costs.

etc, etc, etc...

These things are easy to see if you look at the market and not device specs.

As for Palm, all those device specs you list are meaningless. They're something a techie would write.

PIMs are going to grow big time. That era is really just starting. (Very few people are using pims right now.) But at only 2M devices a year, Palm just won't be able to keep pace with Nokia, which is looking for over 100M a year.

Palm has 2 years to nail down as many vertical markets as possible before XP handhelds start making a big splash.


RE: The new company name
abosco @ 6/4/2003 7:07:15 PM #
Do you really think people are really going to go for embedded XP in a handheld? I sure as hell won't. It's hard enough to have on the desktop. I have to have it on my Palm Pilot too??? Fat chance. I'll find an old Palm III on ebay before I ever switch to XP in a handheld. That's for damn sure.

Could you imagine text on an 800x600 4" screen? And people think Sony makes small fonts. Imagine trying to look at a Kazaa download list from there. Yikes!

IMO, battery technology will not catch up quick enough for this to happen within the next five years. We'll need fuel cells, as we've hit the barrier between size and capacity. Yeah, it's got a 1500 mAh battery, but it's almost an inch thick. That's peachy. I'll pass.

XP handhelds aren't just in the lab. They're ready to be issued. Unfortunately... well... I'll let you draw your own conclusion from this site:

http://www.tiquit.com

You use a virtual mouse, it's severely underpowered, pretty huge... yuk, you get the picture. I'm sure they'll get better with time, but with an approximate retail value of $1500, these things won't be replacing PPC's and Palms anytime soon. They need to be available in the hundreds, not thousands.

"abosco! Come and shoot me!"

I thought you'd never ask...

*Assembles disgruntled PIC members*

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 7:15:38 PM #
1,2,3. You are questioning Microsoft endurance over a unit that lose 30M/Q and shrinking with revenue that climb really fast? How about this: Microsoft sink .5-.8B just to make the Xbox float. FYI that's enough to buy Handrping 6 times over, and Palm Inc 3 times over.

4. in two years there won't be handheld and smartphones as we know it. Haven't you learned? Palm Inc thinks it can keep seeling IIIxe for another 3 years, and suddenly find out how fast the 90's party can turn south. They try to cook up a quickie 5.0... well we know the result.

Microsoft is betting on all tables, .CE tablet, XP tablet, PPC. Let them compete and see which one floats. Is Palm ready in 2 years if suddenly .net suddenly fire up the market? They aren't even ready when iPAQ 3650 cought on. Let alone trying to predict .net tablet which is sold in different category than handheld.

5. Tell that to HP and Dell. ANd also try to explain to all OEM in Taiwan who adopt PPC in droves. Did you see Mitac, FIC, Acer and tossing out 2-3 Palm models each quarters? You didn't think they are all stupid jumping into money loosing market do you?

6. Well, and all enterprise desktop market are XP shops. along with 90% of all PC market. Guess who will still winning in that scenario you mention? Palm Inc? ... hmmm..


RE: The new company name
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 7:25:58 PM #
>>Could you imagine text on an 800x600 4" screen? And people think Sony makes small fonts. Imagine trying to look at a Kazaa download list from there. Yikes!

-- I don't have to imagine. I saw this at PC Expo:

http://www.pc-ephone.com/

Luke Eyekiller!

As for shooting me: You missed. Just like Palm: you keep missing the target!

BlueAnon does it again!
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 7:28:13 PM #
Writes a message that is so incomprehensible, it makes babelfish crash! I have no idea what he is frothing about.

As for no cellphones, PDAs, in 3-5 years: nonsense! I will always want a PDA, even if I have to buy the damned things used and stock up. As for cellphones -- I don't care. Owners will probably die of brain cancer anyway (oh, you wondered what those headaches were?).

As for TabPC -- someone else said it best: Hard to swallow! Haha!

RE: The new company name
abosco @ 6/4/2003 7:29:00 PM #
"They try to cook up a quickie 5.0... well we know the result."

No they didn't. The whole plan all along was to keep everything exactly the same and just have it run on an ARM chip with an OS 4 emulator. They developed OS 5 over the term of over a year before it went GM, and then they worked with licensees to help them fit it into different hardware. It wasn't a quickie thing, and PalmSource bought BeOS to help with it.

And just in case you didn't notice, PalmSource has Sony pushing it. Not that I 100% approve of Sony buying PalmSource, but you can be pretty sure PalmSource won't just die with the fourth-biggest company looking after its software. The hardware company... yeah, they need to do something fast. Permanently closed TT with 400 MHz, 64 MB, and Bluetooth at $399 would be good. Oh, and now we need to specifically ASK for a stereo speaker since Palm seems to find loopholes in everything (16 bit color, MP3 capability, and now stereo sound).

If Sony decides to actually MARKET some of their products with a TV ad or something, all Palms in general may start to catch on. I mean, they do commercials for Wegas and Vaios, why not Clies? It has an equally dumb name as the other two... it's just not fair!

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 7:40:51 PM #
I was answering twalk.
RE: The new company name
abosco @ 6/4/2003 7:44:11 PM #
"Luke Eyekiller!"

Luke Needtobe Skyhightoseethescreen. XP handheld... not a chance.

"Writes a message that is so incomprehensible, it makes babelfish crash! I have no idea what he is frothing about."

Quit it with Babelfish. Do you remember your thoughts when you were four? Try to use the same logic when reading his comments. It makes it a whole lot easier.

"As for shooting me: You missed. Just like Palm: you keep missing the target!"

I didn't even get there yet. Looks like PDAngel is trying to make you the angel.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: The new company name
twalk @ 6/4/2003 7:47:22 PM #
I couldn't understand blue??? either.

abosco, no not embedded XP, the version that's on tablets. After all, what's a PDA other than a small tablet?

There's a good reason I said 2 years. Obviously technology isn't there for it to be done today. But in 2 years it will be. In 2 years Intel will be able to bring out a MCM (multi-chip-module) with a 1.5G processor, flash, and 256M memory, for <$75 and using less power than today's 400Mhz arm chips. Then throw in the new ultra-small HD that just came out.

I'm an EE who works in the EDA industry (electronic design automation). I've got a pretty decent idea about what's coming up and what will be possible. Heck, I'm probably understating things.

In 2 years I see no reason why these won't be possible. (Now if someone will actually make them, I don't know. But I bet that someone will.)


RE: The new company name
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 9:02:27 PM #
>>Looks like PDAngel is trying to make you the angel.

Recently? Where? I haven't seen him for the longest time -- not that I've wanted to.

RE: The new company name
abosco @ 6/4/2003 9:18:32 PM #
"abosco, no not embedded XP, the version that's on tablets. After all, what's a PDA other than a small tablet?"

Yes, the software selection is there, and the OS is very advanced, but the point of PPC to begin with was to allow quick access to data more than anything else. With Windows other than CE, you're going to need to boot it up, or you'll have to put up with a clumsy Windows GUI to find your information. You want to get into your date book? Start, programs, then find your datebook on the list. Wow, what speed that has rather than just tapping on the date book button.

Point is, I'm sure the technology is there, but I'm not sure people want that technology.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: The new company name
abosco @ 6/4/2003 9:21:30 PM #
"Recently? Where? I haven't seen him for the longest time -- not that I've wanted to."

No, of course you haven't *seen* him; he's the sniper that just missed you.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 10:00:21 PM #
4 years old. heh heh, don't make me bring back 'rose' Bosco. It gonna hurt. :D

She is very evil too.

RE: The new company name
TooMuch @ 6/4/2003 11:19:45 PM #
Has the PPC been cured of its habit of Sudden Memory Loss Syndrome, "can't keep a battery charge for a full day" and no real company profits from sales yet (without trumped up MS money to prop it)? If so, they might be a giant by 2005 owning 29% of the total real market share...you know..."within 2 years Palm will be no more" and stuff like that;)

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 11:32:50 PM #
I don't know, but last time i check all high end PPC models has File store facility. You know just to pissed Palm Inc off about not loosing memory at all even after the bridge battery is gone. Don't worry about PPC and 2005 it'll still be around and adding 10% market share per annum. I would worry about Palm products and 2004 first if I were you.
RE: The new company name
RhinoSteve @ 6/5/2003 12:22:34 AM #
>XP handhelds aren't just in the lab. They're ready to be >issued. Unfortunately... well... I'll let you draw your >own conclusion from this site:
>
>http://www.tiquit.com
>
>You use a virtual mouse, it's severely underpowered, >pretty huge... yuk, you get the picture. I'm sure they'll >get better with time, but with an approximate retail >value of $1500, these things won't be replacing PPC's and >Palms anytime soon. They need to be available in the >hundreds, not thousands.

This is another freking brick and the name is about as bad at that OQO white elephant. When will these guys remember that a desktop OS and a bunch of over priced industrial a good PDA does not make!

RE: The new company name
TooMuch @ 6/5/2003 11:07:44 PM #
"Don't worry about PPC and 2005 it'll still be around and adding 10% market share per annum. I would worry about Palm products and 2004 first if I were you."

Palm stock closed up another 10% today. That's 30% in two days. That's 56% in three weeks. I'd say they are headed toward a fine 2004 at the moment. But who knows, it could rise another 50% after the close of the merger later this fall.

RE: The new company name
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 11:56:55 PM #
I was talking about market share. who cares about PALM. The smart money has long leave the stock. It'll be back again on each succession of gartner market share report, as usual. The post merger price hype won't last 3 weeks on that price.

I'll bail once it hit 17-18$

a girl can dream....

rluxemburg @ 6/4/2003 2:07:47 PM #
Best-case scenario: they keep the Treo form factor and excellent PDA/phone integration, but upgrade the hardware to Tungsten quality.

That would be pretty sweet....

RE: a girl can dream....
rluxemburg @ 6/4/2003 2:11:20 PM #
forgot to add the worst-case scenario - all the really talented people get laid off and the Treo gets killed completely.

RE: a girl can dream....
mikemusick @ 6/4/2003 2:17:03 PM #
Bingo. I feel for the HS employees, whose biggest concern today is to freshen their resumes. The only HS survivors will be product management for the Treo 600 (given it survives)... and Dave and Donna. Everyone else can start cleaning out their cubicles.

RE: a girl can dream....
hotpaw4 @ 6/4/2003 3:29:46 PM #
> Everyone else can start cleaning out their cubicles.

Nope. They've got plenty of work to do still. The shareholder votes and regulatory approvals required before the two companies can legally combine operations will take several months.

And keeping ones resume polished is always useful, even if one works for a MS/PPC licensee...

RE: a girl can dream....
mikemusick @ 6/4/2003 3:46:04 PM #
>Nope. They've got plenty of work to do still. The shareholder votes and regulatory
>approvals required before the two companies can legally combine operations
>will take several months.

No offense, please, but this sounds like the HR double-speak I know all too well, having worked for small-tech-company merger targets in the past.

Consummation is a given. The axe will be falling... the only question is exactly when. The smart ones will leave, and soon. The worker bees will stay until the end, and further glut the job market. I don't think HS has the cash for a stay-to-the-end incentive program, but kudos if they do.

What about Hawkins?

pgovotsos @ 6/4/2003 2:38:43 PM #
I wonder how Hawkins is going to do coming back as a "second fiddle" at a company he once ran?

Panagiotis

RE: What about Hawkins?
hotpaw4 @ 6/4/2003 2:40:19 PM #
Hawkins will still end up as a very major shareholder. And he isn't the top executive at Handspring, Dubinsky is CEO. I wonder what her role will be in the combined companies?

It's interesting to note that Handspring shareholders will end up with almost 1/3rd of the combined hardware company, even though, according to the last Q's financials, Handspring had around 1/10th the gross profit, 1/7th the revenues and 1/4th the cash of Palm. The deal might mean that Handspring held some interesting patents, or had some valuable technology deals tied up; or it might mean that PalmSource (which Handspring shareholders won't get any of as part of the deal, but Palm shareholders will) is seen to have a such a high valuation after the split that the SG/hardware portion is only worth in the neighborhood of half.

RE: What about Hawkins?
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 2:53:09 PM #
He wanna become a brain surgeon...
RE: What about Hawkins?
TinMan @ 6/4/2003 4:22:14 PM #
Then dear God please volunteer to be his first patient!
RE: What about Hawkins?
twalk @ 6/4/2003 4:55:55 PM #
Handspring has the partner agreements with the phone companies. This makes them more valuable than they would appear otherwise.

RE: What about Hawkins?
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 5:53:57 PM #
** TinMan wins for Best Comment in this entire discussion! **

RE: What about Hawkins?
michaelcpowell @ 6/4/2003 6:15:22 PM #
On the valuation issue. I suspect that PalmSource will be the highly valued portion of the split as they have less serious competition. Strange thing to say since Microsoft is the competition but the hardware side has to compete with Microsoft and Dell.

Between the two hardware companies, you have Palm that makes a device that is superior in some ways to other Palm hardware and inferior to others (compare it to Sony for example) and Handspring - which has relationships with the carriers and has finished all of the hardware testing to get it working - including in Europe.

It doesn't surprise me that Handspring is worth 1/3rd of the combined companies.

Universal Connector

RhinoSteve @ 6/4/2003 2:59:25 PM #
Whever they come out with in PDAs as a result of the merger, PLEASE keep the Palm SG Universal Connector on future devices. The last this market needs right now is another expansion form factor.
RE: Universal Connector
rsc1000 @ 6/4/2003 11:16:46 PM #
Im pretty sure palm wont dump the UC because of the merger with HS. But you bring up something really interesting here: HS devices (the Treos) will probably now benefit from the UC. Thats a good thing IMO.

Re-Married

ecard @ 6/4/2003 3:03:25 PM #
That is funny...

They kind of split years ago, and now, merged back...

New Company Name??

ozz @ 6/4/2003 4:56:03 PM #
How about "PalmSpring" for the new company name? Then, they could move their corporate headquarters to Palm Springs, California! :-)
RE: New Company Name??
MSTCrowT @ 6/4/2003 9:06:52 PM #
With their finances, moving to Palm Springs would be suicidial. Even if they were healthy, it would not be good for the shareholders.

Almost what I predicted

ganoe @ 6/4/2003 9:59:57 PM #
Handspring found a way out of paying the higher Palm OS licensing fees. I'm betting unless some new major Palm OS competitior comes along, it'll only be Palm and Sony this time next year.
RE: Almost what I predicted
rsc1000 @ 6/4/2003 11:18:54 PM #
>>Handspring found a way out of paying the higher Palm OS licensing fees. I'm betting unless some new major Palm OS competitior comes along, it'll only be Palm and Sony this time next year.

Both PalmSG and HS currently pay fees for the use of PalmSources OS. PalmSG buying HS won't change this - the merged company will still have to pay fees for the use of the OS. The question is - will the combined higher number of units sold result in a lower fee based on greater numbers? I don't know the licensing structure for Palm OS - perhaps somebody who has a clue can chime in with some thoughts on this.

RE: Almost what I predicted
blueBlade @ 6/4/2003 11:36:57 PM #
You can't pay money to yourself and count it as income, unless of course PSG and PS are two seperate entities. Lat time I heard they are all still Palm Inc.

Enron tries that awhile back... heh..

RE: Almost what I predicted
mikecane @ 6/4/2003 11:49:08 PM #
abosco, help! For the *third* time tonight, I have to -- gasp! -- say that Blue is right. My head hurts...

RE: Almost what I predicted
abosco @ 6/4/2003 11:55:03 PM #
I'm here for ya. It's OK. We all have our bad days, but three times in one night... wow. You're at a point of no return.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods
RE: Almost what I predicted
hotpaw4 @ 6/5/2003 12:33:09 AM #
someone wrote:
>You can't pay money to yourself and count it as income

Of course you can, as long as you also book an equal amount as offsetting expenses, thus netting to zero. Lots of large multinational corporations do this, and legally.

>Enron tries that awhile back...

Enron tried to book just the income, and all the expenses went to semi-fictional partnerships.

(but IANACPA)

RE: Almost what I predicted
yOyOYoo @ 6/5/2003 1:11:42 AM #
mr. cane, all your suck ups to this blueblade guy makes me think you have a thing for him =)

anyone have a link for the new treo 600 pic?

RE: Almost what I predicted
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 7:04:14 AM #
I can see this guy is another member of the Brain Trust...

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/229-1.htm

RE: Almost what I predicted
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 11:51:45 AM #
>>>>Of course you can, as long as you also book an equal amount as offsetting expenses, thus netting to zero.

From palm inc stock holder point of few, the number weren't zero before the HS merger. The licensee fee was positive revenue.

now if you argue "but this merger increase the Palm economy" value. yeah well Let's hope they cut all the organisational redundant department big enough for this to be true, because afaik, neither one of the company is making money. Without it, adding two money loosing entities will still mean money loosing enterprise to the system.

Personally, this merger means Palm economy is loosing Handspring rather than enlarging Palm inc. The amount of brain and economic activity in the system is reduced a great deal.

And I wouldn't start imagining what will happen when Jeff and donna will start threatening to bail again if they are not happy with the Palm development job. They are afterall were the inventor of that Zen religion, and Palm is still having trouble getting rid of that junk.

What is the chance Jeff will create a super snazzy wireless device with plenty of un-Zen feature when market demand such device? ... you can't changed a person design philosophy overnight.

RE: Almost what I predicted
hotpaw4 @ 6/5/2003 12:44:40 PM #
someone wrote:
> the number weren't zero before the HS merger. The licensee fee was positive revenue.

Of course. All the PalmOS licensee's weren't internal. And, as MS has proved, OS licensing can sometimes be a pretty decent business. Especially if one is the market leader, as PalmSource has been for several years.

RE: Almost what I predicted
blueBlade @ 6/5/2003 9:31:49 PM #
First let's make it clear that PalmSource is a subsidiary fully under the control of Palm Inc. It will always be like that even after IPO. Palm Inc. will always be the largest stock holder and have the final say how Palmsource should behave in regard of Palm Inc survivability. This is specially true when it comes to licensing.

Do you think they will let Microsoft become a Palmsource licensee if microsoft just want to see what's new in the next release and pay 100 times more than whatever basic fee Palm Inc is paying? How about any small unknown company as Microsoft proxy?

now how about funkier case that will put a stake right through Palm inc's main product line. What happen if DELL decides to become a licensee?

So sorry, as you can see, just because you are splitting the damned company doesn't make it seperate business entities that can do whatever each part want. Otherwise the logical conclusion is Palm inc. is toast after the split, because they dont' worth a damned in term of technical hardware technical know how and manufacturing capability. Palm inc. is a fat cow in crocodile pit when it comes to hardware manufacturing scene.

Apple tried to split OS/Hardware, and somebody smart decide that's not a stupid move, and they are right. Apple couldn't possible survive against ultra efficient far east hardware maker. And Their income is from selling hardware, OS is peanut, unless you monopolize it.

Unless Palm people know something that the rest of us don't, I would say all this hoopla about splitting company so it can operate independently are just a cover story to raise more capital through IPO. The cover story doesn't add up to market reality and historical lesson.

RE: Almost what I predicted
TooMuch @ 6/5/2003 10:57:39 PM #
Nor their spelling:)

RE: Almost what I predicted
hotpaw4 @ 6/6/2003 2:14:51 PM #
someone wrote:
> What happen if DELL decides to become a licensee?

PalmOS PDA market share would probably increase, due to Dell's presence in the enterprise and business sector. However since Dell has very little retail presence percentagewise, the subsequent increase in PalmOS usage might actually boost Sony and Palm's retail sales to individual purchasers in certain market segments.

RE: Almost what I predicted
blueBlade @ 6/6/2003 3:13:52 PM #
...and Palm Inc. will probably lost 65% of market share on the sixth month Dell selling POS product. It'll make what Sony did to Handspring look like a picnic.

Palm merger was no slam dunk

mikecane @ 6/5/2003 8:20:59 AM #
http://news.com.com/2102-1041_3-1013406.html?tag=ni_print

>>> The source added: "The question for them will be can they rapidly integrate their companies and go to market with something much bolder than what each of them has done in the past."

-- yeah, like how about a frikken 320x480 one-piece with built-in WiFi?!!?

RE: Palm merger was no slam dunk
hotpaw4 @ 6/5/2003 12:50:31 PM #
If you really think a particular model would sell, and could actually convince some investors of that, you could just buy a PalmOS license, design, manufacture and sell the device yourself, and see if you are rolling in profits or bankrupt a year or two later...
RE: Palm merger was no slam dunk
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 9:07:57 PM #
Fine. You put up or raise the cash and it's a done deal, baby.

RE: Palm merger was no slam dunk
hotpaw4 @ 6/6/2003 2:32:56 PM #
There are other far more imaginative product architects and interesting business opportunities in the PDA/handheld space on which to invest ones time and money.
RE: Palm merger was no slam dunk
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 2:38:01 PM #
Make a list. Post it here. Bill Gates needs new ideas to steal.

RE: Palm merger was no slam dunk
blueBlade @ 6/6/2003 3:12:26 PM #
How about tapwave? anybody think it's brilliant or overhype stupid pet trick? I'd say it makes latenite show top ten list.

Who is...

ceejay @ 6/5/2003 8:37:37 AM #
Who is the Mike Cane bloke? He seems to spend his whole life posting messages!?!
RE: Who is...
Islander @ 6/5/2003 4:04:05 PM #
The "Mike Cane" is a computer generated automated post generator, sold to various computer related sites to stir interest in their message boards. It automatically links to any news site that is topic related, and provides info appreciated by many. Always arrogant and controversial the Cane "bot" always stirs the pot thus angers some. In either case he makes you come to the boards and participate. We linger at the message board longer which is a boon to advertisers who sell more as a result. Thus the "Mike Cane" love it or hate it is of great value to Palminfocenter and the other sites who've bought its technology.

RE: Who is...
mikecane @ 6/5/2003 9:00:16 PM #
What makes the Mike Cane(tm) bot stand out from the majority of riffraff bots that post to boards is that it has an instantly recognized name and is easy to pronounce in any language. Go ahead. Pronounce it in Chinese. Now Turkmenistani. Good. Now Inuit. See?! Our employees were all crack psychops from the NSA and have developed this program to insinuate encrypted stegonongraphic content into the hippocampus region of your brain where it will be recalled during deep REM sleep activity. It is advised that you Stay Home on 1/1/2005. Side effects include euphoria, dismay, and upset stomach. Use as directed. Beware of its addictive nature. You Have Been Warned.

RE: Who is...
mikecane @ 6/6/2003 2:46:11 PM #
I do not spend my whole life posting messages. It's just that you spend *your* whole life *reading* them. (But then you always were slow, even as a wee child... ten months for you to emerge, wasn't it? Made people gasp, like that lizard baby in V!)

RE: Who is...
ceejay @ 6/8/2003 4:32:47 PM #
Hmm... such strange ramblings. I only asked who was Mike Cane because of the large amount of messages on this thread. I didn't expect a personal attack on my childhood! Are you American?

Palm gets Handspring for free

jbeedham @ 6/5/2003 9:32:17 PM #
I figured handspring was gonna go out of business eventually so something like this was bound to happen. It is very easy to print up new stock. It is like a license to print money for companys. I bet the Handspring execs are selling out and taking the money while their chance is good.

It saddens to me, how such a good company that Handspring used to be goes down like this.

-------------------------------------------------------
currently using Palm m125 and waiting for Garmin iQue.

RE: Palm gets Handspring for free
hotpaw4 @ 6/6/2003 2:20:50 PM #
someone wrote:
> I bet the Handspring execs are selling out and taking the money while their chance is good.

Handspring founders seem to be getting Palm stock, not cash, as payment for the company. That means that if Palm Inc. runs its stock price into the ground, they get very little. So they have a reasonable monetary incentive to make sure the merged company doesn't nose dive in valuation.

Most of the founders also seem to be taking executive roles or a position on the board of the merged entity, so any insider trading, such as trying to dump all their stock holdings, can be pubicly observed.

Hope this isn't another Palm Screwup

Palm III / Ipaq User @ 6/6/2003 3:48:32 PM #
As far as I'm concerned, Palm has been going downhill since the Palm V series. They used to talk about the "zen" of Palm and say "simply" Palm. That was the whole point. I still use a Palm III for my datebook and task lists because the PIM applications are so elegant, unlike the ones on my Ipaq. Palm's designs have also gone from simplicity to complexity. What happened to integrated flip covers? Why is the Zire 71 so slippery and the plastic so thin? The Palm V/Palm III/m50x models were perfectly balanced and designed but the new Palm models are much too much like the OEM designed Pocket PCs.

I hope that Palm Source doesn't dramatically change these functions and I hope that Palm and Palmsource can stay in business so that they can continue to offer good PIM organizers. Unfortunately, playing catchup to the Pocket PC in terms of network connectivity, color screens and power is threatening to destroy the simplicity of the Palm hardware and software design which was the most appealing part of the Palm platform. I think that Palm needs to take a close look at Apple and it's emphasis on good hardware design if they are going to stay competitive.

I'm also disappointed by Graffiti 2 which, with its multiple strokes, seems like a step backward rather than a step forward.

Forbes called for this exactly 2 years ago...

Gekko @ 6/7/2003 3:34:52 PM #
Palm, Handspring Should Merge
Lisa DiCarlo, Forbes.com, 06.08.01, 1:30 PM ET

NEW YORK - If Palm and Handspring have any hopes of maintaining the handheld platform's dominant market share and opening new markets, they should swallow a little bit of pride and merge. It's the best way to capitalize on their respective strengths.

http://www.forbes.com/2001/06/08/0608palm.html



How long before Hawkins/Dubinsky bang heads with Palm Execs?

Gekko @ 6/7/2003 6:48:02 PM #
And quit?

Hawkins can't dump shares fast enough...

Gekko @ 6/7/2003 7:03:17 PM #

http://biz.yahoo.com/t/45/503.html

"The kids gotta eat somehow!"


RE: Hawkins can't dump shares fast enough...
mikecane @ 6/8/2003 12:16:53 AM #
Oh stop. If you go through the dates, this looks like it's been a regular occurrence all along. I don't see anything there that's unusual. Why do you?

RE: Hawkins can't dump shares fast enough...
Gekko @ 6/8/2003 8:58:01 AM #
dude has been selling thousands of shares almost EVERY DAY for the last 3 months.

RE: Hawkins can't dump shares fast enough...
blueBlade @ 6/8/2003 2:14:36 PM #
gotta feed the family you know. Probably donna doesn't give jeff enough pocket change. lol

I mean why on earth anybody keep seeling block of stock worth under 10K so periodically?

Bye bye PPC!

mikecane @ 6/29/2003 1:55:31 PM #
What I just realized is that Handspring will now never produce anything running the PPC OS.

However, Palm SG once cut loose from PalmSource had best realize *it* is in the *device* business -- not the "PalmOS virus carrier" business.

Let's remember Western Union. It poo-pooed the telephone. It didn't realize it wasn;t in the *telegraph* business -- it was in the *communications* business.

Likewise the upcoming Palm SG -- under its new monicker -- is in the *device* business, *not* the PalmOS business.

PalmSource is in the PalmOS business. Period.

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