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Comments on: Handspring Shows the Treo 600

Handspring Treo 600 ~ Click for Larger updated Handspring has unveiled the Treo 600. The new model features a smaller, more phone-like design with a full QWERTY keyboard and digital camera. The Treo 600 combines a phone, and Palm OS 5-based organizer with messaging, email, and web browsing features. It is expected to become available this fall worldwide.
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Photo problem?

Palmary @ 6/18/2003 1:14:29 AM #
Is it just my crummy connection, or is the photo missing?

"Earnestness is just stupidity sent to college" P.J. O'Rourke
RE: Photo problem?
Palmary @ 6/18/2003 1:16:01 AM #
Doh! I just hit 'refresh' and the photo finally appeared.

"Earnestness is just stupidity sent to college" P.J. O'Rourke

Great Video on CNet

big_raji @ 6/18/2003 1:14:58 AM #
Warning: SEVERAL PAGES OF WHINING BELOW:
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/18/2003 9:34:31 PM #
Anyone starting to read these comments can save themselves time with the following summary (Several pages of drivel from the Boo Hoo Babies):

Boo Hoo Hoo! Only 160 x 160 screen!

Boo Hoo Hoo! No Bluetooth!

Boo Hoo Hoo! No Toothbrush!

Boo Hoo Hoo! No enema! (for iain.collins)

Get a clue you morons. This is a PDA-Phone. Not just a PDA. Not just a phone. If you don't like it because it doesn't have some ultra-geek feature that you and the other 10 whiners here want, DON'T BUY IT. Your opinion represent about 0.000001 % of people that might want a new PDA-Phone. No-one gives a rat's arse about what you're bitching about today. When someone finally introduces a no compromise PDA-Phone for $1000, you dorks will be on here complaining about the price.

The Boo Hoo Babies are a lot worse than the PocketPC trolls could ever hope to be.


http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0333735927.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg


Land of the free

Yeah, 160x160

M3wThr33 @ 6/18/2003 1:16:07 AM #
Check out the photo. While it's probably not a real shot, the provided screen is clearly 160, not 320, check out the shape of the buttons and the TitleBar.
I wonder how many program incompatabilities will show up now that programmers have to wonder if OS 5 is Sony+, Palm or HS-.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: Yeah, 160x160
Galley_SimRacer @ 6/18/2003 1:46:16 AM #
160 x 160? What the hell were they thinking?

--
"Life is what you experience between racing games"
Galley
RE: Yeah, 160x160
MarcosV @ 6/18/2003 1:52:51 AM #

This has GOT to be some kind of mistake!

No way would they shoot themselves in the foot like this! would they?

with a 144mgz processor, rendering a 320X320 should be trivial. I can't imagine them doing it to save battery power either. But if this is the case, they should have an option to use either 160X160 or 320X320. Now that would be cool

I really like the looks of the device though. It seems more serious and meant for business than the current crop of PDA/fashion accessory that are all over the market.

-Marcos Vandel

Should compare rez to other "smartphones"
gfunkmagic @ 6/18/2003 2:43:27 AM #
As a Treo user, I was just as mad as anyone regarding the resolution. But remember, HS is not making a pda here and they're not targeting pda users. They're a mobile headset maker now and soon will become the mobile headset division of PalmSG. You shoudl compare this resolution to other smartphone devices out there in this small size category. For example all Series 60 Symbian platform mobiles (i.e Nokia 360, 7650) only have a 176x208 pixel screen. Furthermroe, the M$ SPV only has a 220 x 176 screen! Of course the exception here is the Samsung SGH-i500 which reportedly has a 320x320 screen. But overall, the Treo600 screen is comparable to most smartphones out there...

----------------------------------------
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

-Pablo Picasso.

RE: Yeah, 160x160
mr_yellow @ 6/18/2003 2:54:27 AM #
I gawked at the fact that it is 160x160 initially.. but when you really think about it, imagine the trouble with the font thinkness and legibility with a reduced sized 320x320 screen?

160x160 is plenty "useful"... and most likely cheaper to manufacture. if i really think back on it, I'd still be happily using my m505 if i didn't break it. Yes, 320x320 is nice. but useability wise, not totally unnecessary.

More info on the screen...
gfunkmagic @ 6/18/2003 2:56:00 AM #
This will be a reflecitve CSTN 160x160 pixel screen with a dot-pitch of .27. The screen is 2.7 inches when measured diagonally. Handspring says it is bright enough to be easily seen indoors and out and is referred by one person as "blindingly bright" according to the report on treocentral:

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/236-1.htm

----------------------------------------
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

-Pablo Picasso.

RE: Yeah, 160x160
M3wThr33 @ 6/18/2003 3:56:07 AM #
Bleh, after getting a Zire71, I couldn't imagine anything less, especially if it has a camera.

Of course, think of the alternative.

PPC-embedded phones don't even have a touchscreen. I'd rather program for the Palm in OS5- than know that some people will be using my programs without a touch-screen.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

RE: Yeah, 160x160
hotpaw4 @ 6/18/2003 6:42:21 AM #
The display is already over 90 DPI in resolution. 4 times more pixels would require much more power for the display refresh.
RE: Yeah, 160x160
kstedman1 @ 6/18/2003 6:45:01 AM #
Reflective 160x160? Here comes the dust.

No wonder Handspring was in trouble. This device looks fantastic but, just like all other Palm products out there, it lacks a major feature. In this case, a 320x320 screen.

RE: Yeah, 160x160
Doc Logic @ 6/18/2003 10:26:19 AM #
Here's the problem with 160x160. You aren't going to get a lot of people downgrading from 320x320 to 160x160. 320x320 is highly addictive.

Unfortunately, this will limit the device's appeal to those who have never had a Palm OS device or those who currently have low-res screens.

Darn! Otherwise, the device looks like a winner. I only use my TT Bluetooth for wireless Internet, so I wouldn't miss it on this phone.

Shut up
orev @ 6/18/2003 11:25:31 AM #
You guys are all just a bunch of whiney little bitches. Shut the hell up. You can never just look at something and say, "wow, that's pretty cool". There always has to be something wrong.


RE: Yeah, 160x160
treo007 @ 6/18/2003 11:28:44 AM #
>>As a Treo user, I was just as mad as anyone regarding the resolution. But remember, HS is not making a pda here and they're not targeting pda users. They're a mobile headset maker now and soon will become the mobile headset division of PalmSG. You shoudl compare this resolution to other smartphone devices out there in this small size category. For example all Series 60 Symbian platform mobiles (i.e Nokia 360, 7650) only have a 176x208 pixel screen. Furthermroe, the M$ SPV only has a 220 x 176 screen! Of course the exception here is the Samsung SGH-i500 which reportedly has a 320x320 screen. But overall, the Treo600 screen is comparable to most smartphones out there...

So....Just because all the other kids are doing it doesn't mean you should too, right? Seriously, 320x320 would have been a great way to differentiate themselves from the rest of the smart phone crowd (and stay ahead of the curve). They had the potential to have the only 320 x 320 phone on the market (and it's not as if the technology isn't there). As it is, Samsung is coming out with one and I bet they'll tout it's resolution over every comparable product on the market (and they should).

I don't think we should give HS a free pass here. As it is, I think the thing looks too geeky and PDA focused. Most of the phone buying population is not going to want to spend more money to look uncool and learn something more complicated than the current crop of "free" phones. Just my opinion.

Good thing for HS they merged w/Palm when they did, because this phone wouldn't have saved the company.

RE: Yeah, 160x160
RAMdŽd @ 6/18/2003 11:32:33 AM #
Unfortunately, this will limit the device's appeal to those who have never had a Palm OS device or those who currently have low-res screens.


Not to mention, those who just don't know what they're talking about.

I bet somebody who's not worried about a specification can hold this 600 in their hand and appreciate how fully functional it is, without SuperGeeks to tell them "160x160?! That is soooo uncool!"

It's obvious that so many critics here are experts in R&D, development, and marketing. Cracks me up.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Yeah, 160x160 and I like it
a3 @ 6/18/2003 11:52:52 AM #
Just by checking the picture it seems as a 1.5" width x 3" height. If so, this might be the smallest Color PDA ever. As a matter of fact it gets pretty damn close to my cel phone's size so I'd say they have a winner here.
Regarding 160x160 screen I need some expert advice cuz I think that 160x160 is the size but the density may be the same as a 320x320 due to its reduced size. If so then we will have the same resolution as any other hires device.
______________________________________________________
Never, never, never give up!
RE: Yeah, 160x160
iain.collins @ 6/18/2003 11:59:47 AM #
orev: Erm. this device is utterly screwed when it gets to market because it has 160x160 instead of 320x320.

Why would I down grade my old NR70V (which runs at 320x480) for *this?*

I had a Prisim with the same screen as this something like 3 years ago and have had 3 Palms since then!

I would get this tomorrow if it had 320x320, but at this res its going to be useless for me so I'm not going to - just like I haven't had a Handspring since the Visor Prisim.

The Visor Prisim and the Edge were the only really good units Handspring made. The rest were boaring the Treo battery life was too short (even once a day is not enough to keep it charged for me).

Many of the spring board models promised didn't appear, and the ones that did were too little and many years too late.

Consumers have figured out Handspring suck, if your the only one who thinks they don't make lame kit then fine...go and buy them....The rest of us *won't*.

I bought a browser from them (used a screen hack to make it full screen on my NR70V - not 100% bug free when made to go full screen, but it's pretty good and doesn't crash or anything). But it had to wait for an unlock key after Handpring took my money but didn't give me a key in return! Turned out I had to wait for it to be sent it via email manually!

I was *amazed* it wasn't a fully automated and instantanious process. For technology company that's a spectatular example of management cluelessness, it's stunning.



RE: Yeah, 160x160
rsc1000 @ 6/18/2003 1:23:58 PM #
>>I gawked at the fact that it is 160x160 initially.. but when you really think about it, imagine the trouble with the font thinkness and legibility with a reduced sized 320x320 screen?

Font thickness wouldn't be a problem - OS 5 uses 'thick' fonts by defualt. The only problem with font thickness on a 320x320 screen is with Sonys pre-OS 5 devices because they went with their own thin fonts.

Having said that - i don't mind 160x160 on a small screen like this - im sure it will look great. My problem with it is from a developer point of view. A lot of apps written for OS 5 are games and multi-media that assume hi-res for OS 5 devices. Hi-res is not a requirement of OS 5 - but it has become a sort of unofficial standard for it. So newer OS 5 enhanced games, for example, won't work on this if they require 320x320. Drag.

RE: Yeah, 160x160
abosco @ 6/18/2003 1:38:23 PM #
"You guys are all just a bunch of whiney little bitches. Shut the hell up. You can never just look at something and say, "wow, that's pretty cool". There always has to be something wrong."

They do have pills for menopause, you know.

This thing would be great, but the problem with the screen is that software written for OS 5 will be compatible with the processor but not with the screen. This is a huge fumble and I think it will be the reason for holding people from buying it.

Everything else about it is pure craftsmanship. It even looks mean.

-Bosco
Proud Member of the Top Non-Mods

RE: Yeah, 160x160
craniotes @ 6/18/2003 2:28:55 PM #
Until someone can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would have been utterly impossible to shove a 320x320 screen into this device, I'm not buying any argument other than that they simply cheaped out on us. Period. Everyone is talking about battery life and refresh rates, but the biggest killer of PDA/Phone battery life is the backlight. Well, please explain to me just how a backlight for a 320x device is going to be larger, and draw more power than a backlight for a 160x device if the screens are still the same size? With respect to refresh rates, well isn't that why we're using OMAP and XScale processors? For the added horsepower and power-savings? And no, just because the first Sony hi-res devices had skinny fonts doesn't mean that every hi-res device has skinny fonts. OS5 took care of that problem.

Face it, Handspring cut corners with the screen. Why are there so many apologists out there willing to pat them on the back for that?

I'm waitng for the Samsung.

-Adam


RE:
orev @ 6/18/2003 3:24:25 PM #
Re: everyone



RE: Shut the hell up
orev @ 6/18/2003 3:24:25 PM #
Re: everyone

If you don't like it, DON'T F-ING BUY IT!

Contrary to popular belief in these parts, the supergeeks who always need the latest and greatest do NOT make up the majority of consumers. Palm or whoever will not go under just because you don't buy something.

I wish I had a nickel for every moron who proclaimed that because some new device doesn't have X little feature that the company was going under. I'd be rich.

RE: Yeah, 160x160
Selbstlade @ 6/18/2003 5:07:33 PM #
"You guys are all just a bunch of whiney little bitches. Shut the hell up. You can never just look at something and say, "wow, that's pretty cool". There always has to be something wrong."

If Compaq or IBM or Dell released a Pentium 5 or Athlon 64 laptop or PC with a monitor that could only display 640x480, would you be pissed? No, of course not! You'd say "wow, that's pretty cool"

Tesseract

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

Any of the complainers here actually ever used the TREO 600?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/18/2003 9:54:38 PM #
Didn't think so.


The losers ranting here deserve our pity - they have nothing else to live for other than pretending to be experts on PDA sites.


Land of the free

RE: Yeah, 160x160
Hotoru @ 6/19/2003 1:22:08 AM #
This is really a cool little device. But, I agree, I wish it was 320x320. I am not saying that it will not be a good device at 160. But, as a Tungsten T owner who wants to add mobile ability would be nice to have a 320x screen.
Hotoru

RE: Yeah, 160x160
rmhurdman @ 6/19/2003 8:01:10 PM #
I wonder how many of the people who are assuming that developpers will assume that the screen is 320x320 are developpers themselves? (And you get a tongue-twister for free!) Any developper who can program a killer app is smart enough not to assume anything about the hardware they're coding for. Palm OS offers many easy ways for a program to find out what kind of hardware (and software) is and isn't available.
It sounds like you're all just trying to find excuses not to love it. And if I and everyone else go out and buy it and this starts selling like hotcakes, what excuse will you give about your whiney predictions?

RE: Yeah, 160x160
craniotes @ 6/21/2003 12:34:40 AM #
I don't think anyone here is saying that the device won't sell. In fact, I'm sure that quite the opposite will be the case. What we are saying is that 160x160 resolution is a major step backwards in a device that was so close to being perfect. Is this a deal breaker? For your average, "consumer-grade" user, probably not. As for me, your average "gadget-freak-user," definitely yes. This is why I intend to purchase the Samsung i500, whenever they finally get off their duffs and release it.

And to those who are whining and bitching about all of us who are whining and bitching about the poor resolution -- go back to reading the NY Times Circuits section for your "late-breaking" PDA news. This is a FAN site... Got it? If you're happy using your mother's hand-me-down Palm IIIxe, more power to ya. Just leave the rest of us out of it, okay?

-Adam

Don't use drugs, kids.
Satan @ 6/21/2003 4:18:38 AM #
"What we are saying is that 160x160 resolution is a major step backwards"

Quote from industry legend, Tickle Me Elmo

RE: Yeah, 160x160
craniotes @ 6/24/2003 5:58:02 PM #
Elmo said that too? Interesting...

-Adam

looks nice

montyburns @ 6/18/2003 1:23:48 AM #
I like it.

Mmmmm....shiny...

RE: looks nice
ozz @ 6/18/2003 1:53:38 AM #
The video says it has a touch screen but most functions can be accessed with one hand on the 5-way navigator. I wonder if there is a built-in stylus? And, it appears there is no graffiti input capability. Sad, cuz I prefer graffiti. Has anybody seen a list of specs yet? Really looks nice, though!

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: looks nice
a3 @ 6/18/2003 10:08:19 AM #
It has Palm OS5.2 so you write directly on the screen. Just as with the Tungsten C.

_______________________________________
Already a Tapwave's Helix fan.
RE: looks nice
ozz @ 6/18/2003 1:49:50 PM #
Thanks for the info A3

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: looks nice
aleclee @ 6/19/2003 11:40:07 AM #
The video says it has a touch screen but most functions can be accessed with one hand on the 5-way navigator. I wonder if there is a built-in stylus? And, it appears there is no graffiti input capability. Sad, cuz I prefer graffiti. Has anybody seen a list of specs yet? Really looks nice, though!
============
I got to check one out last weekend (a friend works for HS) and it has a stylus. It's so well integrated into the body that it took me a moment to find despite it's location in the usual spot.

Looks good - but... Bluetooth? Screen! Battery?

McTrinsic @ 6/18/2003 1:52:50 AM #
This appears to be really good.

I wonder, though, if they will include Bluetooth - and if so, if they are able to provide an audio profile for Bluetooth. It would ROCK to be able to hear msuic via headset and then take an incoming call!

The screen made me shake my head as well. But then again, I think HiRes Screens use more power. And this is a cellphone, people are used to cellphone recharging cycles. Too short of a battery performance would be inacceptable.

What do you think?

Have fun,
McTrinsic

RE: Looks good - but... Bluetooth? Screen! Battery?
frauen1 @ 6/18/2003 6:48:45 AM #
Saw one last night at the NYCDAUG meeting (the NY PDA User group - David Nagel from PalmSource and a rep from Handspring were there - the Handspring guy had the Treo 600 obviously). It doesn't have bluetooth, but it has SDIO support, and Handspring says that they and Palm are working on drivers for Palm's SD bluetooth card. Would be useful if they supported the profile for a bluetooth headset (Handspring said that was a goal but would not guarantee it - that's the kind of answer that you would expect).

BTW, the unit is very small and nice. The keyboard is a little small but is actually quite usable. I'm not sure about the location of the DPad to the top, but then again the current DPad on the bottom of the T|C and T|W isn't the easiest to use, and the one on the Treo 600 has a nicer feel to it.

Dissapointed like a frog

lechter @ 6/18/2003 2:31:06 AM #
How could they? Well what do you expect out of a company that decides to open Mexico with a smartphone while the US market is still .5% saturated with them.

Really I fear the only genius Handspring had was the Treo design of yesteryear.

160 x 160? How could they put a camera first? Handspring will soon be, thank God, just a memory.

RE: Dissapointed like a frog
UZI4U182 @ 6/18/2003 3:17:42 AM #
Although this new Treo looks a lot better than the old ones, it's still a pile of crap. The screen ruined it. I heard it still has the same screen as the Treo 270/300. Palm OS 5 deserves better than that.

UZI4U182@suscom.net
www.bigdumbpalmreviews.tk
Main PDA: Sony CLIÉ PEG-NX70v
WiFi setup coming soon...

its pretty good when you think about it

antikryst @ 6/18/2003 4:16:28 AM #
if you are a hardcore palm user...then get a standalone palm pda.

if u want a device that is both a pda and a phone then this one is a no brainer...go get it.

most "smartphones" out there are pretty dumb if you ask me. ive tried on the nokia symbian based ones and inputting data via numeric keypad is tedious...even for someone like me who lives in the philippines where an unimaginable number of people use sms and input text at lightning speeds...when i say lightning speeds...it means lightning speed...trust me..its that fast

havent tried the p800 yet but from what i can see...shifting from a palm pda or a pocket pc based pda to a p800 is a major downgrade....even if you just look at it on the organizer part of its functionality

with this up and coming treo..you get a touchscreen and a thumbboard. still looks like a phone though...will prob feel like a phone too. this is the beauty of it. its a phone++ and not a phone thats trying too hard to be a pda. think about its small form factor for an os5 enabled unit.

it really depends on ones individual needs for a phone, pda, or a convergence device but all in all its pretty good.


I agree.
RAMdŽd @ 6/18/2003 9:34:58 AM #
A lot of people here fall into one of two groups-

Those who don't know *what* they want, and those that want every single device to be exactly what they want. None of those people will *ever* be happy and will always have a whine or two.

This device is competiting with both SmartPhones and PDAs. It's trying to walk a line. For my taste and uses, SmartPhones tend to be a little lean on screen, and PDAPhones tend to be huge. That's one reason I like to keep the separate.

I'd like to see a little bigger screen, but a high res, small screen could be a problem for too many users.

Perhaps when OLEDs are more practical, we can have a fold out screen that increases in resolution when opened.

This phone has a lot to offer a great many users, and those who would right this off as "crap" are either pseudo-elitists or just plain silly. I'll bet this "crap" does quite well, and deservedly so.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: its pretty good when you think about it
spaceboy @ 6/18/2003 12:19:27 PM #
Well, I know what I want, and it's not the Treo 600 :D After seeing this latest effort from Handspring, I'm seriously thinking about getting a P800. It's not THAT much of a downgrade. Third-party Symbian apps are available, though they're not as smart as the PalmOS stuff. It's so much more like a PDA than anything Nokia ever came out with. Plus it's a better phone than anything Palm, Handspring, or the Pocket PC camp have ever come up with.

What I've always been wondering is, where is Sony-Ericsson in all of this? Think: P800 form factor + PalmOS 5.2 + CLIE NX and NZ series screen resolution = a smartphone-PDA worth drooling over! :D

Should be a no-brainer, if only Ericsson wasn't so fixated with Symbian. Ah well, fingers crossed, somebody else will figure it out.

RE: its pretty good when you think about it
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 12:40:09 PM #
"Perhaps when OLEDs are more practical, we can have a fold out screen that increases in resolution when opened."

Spoken like a true pseudo-elitist!

Thanks, robrecht

RE: its pretty good when you think about it
Bioco @ 6/18/2003 11:03:05 PM #
Way Better than I expected. For me it is a great Example of things to come. It has its flaws but compare it with everything else outhere and it holds up on its own. Just give me the specs on battery life and I'll tell ya if we have a winner!
RE: its pretty good when you think about it
brick @ 6/19/2003 7:14:50 AM #
How is a P800 a downgrade from Palm? I've used a palm before moving on to the P800, and I've not looked back since. The only frustrating thing about it is waiting for the same volume of software Palm has accumulated over the last decade.

The car in the photo is a Mini

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/18/2003 5:09:14 AM #
Subliminal advertising - Handspring's R+D $$$ hard at work...


Samsung. Can you hear me?

Can you hear me?

Can you hear me now?

On today's lunch menu: Handspring.

Fantastic! :)

Dr Opinion @ 6/18/2003 6:03:02 AM #
The dot-pitch at is .27 which is about that on a good monitor. Frankly, given the size of the device, 320x320 would be a really stupid move... unreadable fonts being the least of the problems.

This looks like a fantastic device... the sheer elegance -- functional and aesthetic -- are astonishing. As Bucky said, "Form and function are one..."

The advanced audio, great keypad and mega battery life are the winners for me... this will be my second Palm device this year, and for the first time, I'll be carrying two Palm OS gadgets everywhere I go. :)

Nice one, Handspring!


"...I looked up "antediluvian", and they had a picture of a Pocket PC." ;)

RE: Fantastic! :)
kstedman1 @ 6/18/2003 6:48:18 AM #
Uh huh. Palm has to love what Dawkins has been doing for the past year. The device looks great until you turn it on.



RE: Fantastic! :)
Doc Logic @ 6/18/2003 10:32:29 AM #
I don't see how increasing the screen resolution will make the screen harder to read. By default, OS 5.2 just smooths out the fonts and UI components making the screen easier to read. Yes, some apps will display 4 point fonts, but the built-in apps simply look better.

Battery life is a valid argument for low res screens, but an option for a bigger battery would be a resonable compromise in implementing hi-res.

RE: Fantastic! :)
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 12:15:54 PM #
"... and for the first time, I'll be carrying two Palm OS gadgets everywhere I go. :)"

What's the point of a convergence device then?

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Fantastic! - but wrong ergonomics
goulniky @ 6/18/2003 12:45:41 PM #
every one goes on about 160x160 and it was my first gut reaction too. However, what I think is a lot more important is ergonomics - and I think the 5-way buttons is an extremely poor choice.
anatomically and from experience with both Treo 180 and Sony Clie, I find the jog-dial extremly useful. Generally speaking, buttons/knobs where your fingers hold the device (i.e. along the side) are a lot more convenient. You get a lot less precision moving the thumb over the front and it really gets tiring.


Yv

RE: Fantastic! :)
amflores @ 6/18/2003 12:53:09 PM #
Bucky who?
Buckminster Fuller?

RE: Fantastic! :)
M3wThr33 @ 6/18/2003 5:33:34 PM #
No, a 5-way is better than the jogdial. You don't always do one-handed operation with the same hand.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: Fantastic! :)
Bioco @ 6/18/2003 11:09:50 PM #
What really makes me happy about this news is that the TUNGSTEN TT2 is coming around the corner. I bet it comes out on the 18 of JULY.

I'll buy that one first and then the TREO ;)

RE: Fantastic! :)
73939133 @ 6/22/2003 5:50:16 AM #
The dot-pitch at is .27 which is about that on a good monitor. Frankly, given the size of the device, 320x320 would be a really stupid move... unreadable fonts being the least of the problems.

Of course it would be stupid. That's because PalmOS has lots of hard-coded assumptions about resolution and screen size. But that's a current problem with PalmOS, not with high resolution screens. Very high resolution screens do make a lot of sense if the OS has good support for them.

"Form and function are one..."
orb2069 @ 6/22/2003 3:19:32 PM #
...Is probably more attributable to Frank Lloyd Wright than Buckminster Fuller.

From Google:
"Form and function are one" Frank Lloyd Wright - 96 hits.

"Form and function are one" Buckminster Fuller - 9 hits, one of which is this article, several others of which attribute the saying to FLW.

Sorry - I've read most of BF's books, and this quote was bothering me. I promise not to be so nit-picky in the future.

Oh yeah...this is a "significant new product due this fall".

Fat_Man @ 6/18/2003 6:42:15 AM #
HandSpring announced in mid-April that they are going to release a "significant new product due this fall" and I guess this is what they were talking about.

However, while this Treo does have new components (Palm OS 5.2, 32mb) , I fail to see anything "significantly" new with this smartphone. Same old low-resolution, a processor that has been used to the Tungsten for almost a year now...

I kinda sorta expect something in the class of the Samsung SGH-i500:
-300mhz Intel PXA262 processor
-32MB ROM / 32MB RAM
-65000 TFT color screen with 320 x 320 resolution
-built in 330K pixel VGA (640 x 480) camera with an embedded flash

KAY

RE: Oh yeah...this is a
TheMessenger @ 6/18/2003 11:00:51 PM #
No flash on the SGH-i500. You have heard wrong.

On the 160x160 side, I've been whining also like you guys. I've owned a high res clie and like it very much but if you think about it....I'd much rather have longer battery life then a 320 screen. I can't use my clie that much because of battery life and my treo I keep constantly charged in the house and car because I'm always on the internet (i get very very bored in class) so when they say they've been able to pack 4-5 more hours on to this treo then the previous treo...bring it on.

Nice but...

aithir @ 6/18/2003 7:24:20 AM #
With no bluetooth and an 160*160 screen?

Get ove it
krosfyah @ 6/18/2003 7:33:50 AM #
If you don't like this Treo, it's because it wasn't made for geeks...like those of us posting here.

It is a true smart-phone that fits easily in your pocket, doesn't feel like a brick when you use it, has good battery life and a couple extra "cool" factors to draw in the mindless consumer (camera).

It's perfect.

99.9% of people careless about bluetooth or the processor or the screen resolution or whatever.

Get over it.

Amen!
ajstribling @ 6/18/2003 8:38:10 AM #
"99.9% of people careless about bluetooth or the processor or the screen resolution or whatever."

I am so tired of hearing, "I really have to use the toilet but I just can't use this stall because it doesn't have Bluetooth!" I used to think it would be useful, until I called a friend with a P800 and Bluetooth headset: he sounded like he was being electrocuted at the bottom of a well. $200 for a headset that gives you echoes and crummy reception, instead of a $15 wired headset that works fine. It's an overpriced solution in search of a problem, people. Get over it.

Nice, no buts about it.
RAMdŽd @ 6/18/2003 9:46:19 AM #
This is a very slick piece of engineering.

And I'd really like to know how many of the "I can't live without Bluetooth!" crowd actually uses BT or *will* use it (since many don't actually do so now).

This is a tool, and an elegant one at that. Very well done. Just because it doesn't have a 5" some people are at the Wailing Wall. I don't get it.

Some people actually need to do work, and don't want or need UberGeekdom dragging them down. I've seen a lot of these PDAPhones and would never carry bricks like those in my pocket. Some here may proudly carry one on their PsuedoSuperGeek utility belt, but others don't have anything to prove. They just want an appropriate tool for the job.

This phone covers a lot of useful, practical bases. I'd like to see graffiti, and there may be a different version down the line. But that doesn't make me hate this model.

"Well done" to HandSpring.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Nice but...
DrewG @ 6/18/2003 10:05:45 AM #
A higher res screen would be nice, as I'm a photo buff and would like to bring some along. But realisticly, this is a phone not a photo album.
Bluetooth? I still have no use for this (and no devices that support it). Bluetooth is absolutely irrelevent to me, except as it affects price, size or performance.

RE: Nice but...
hoodoo @ 6/18/2003 10:34:54 AM #
Looks great to me. Have a look at the video on Cnet, the size is much better than the W or 7135, very phone-like. I personally don't care much if it has hi-res - most people here, especially here, would switch to complaining about battery life, anyways, natch.

I want the Palm OS & PIM, and to be able to make a phone call & perhaps check e-mail/web surf a bit. The unit looks solid compared to the 270/300 also. Bluetooth doesn;t seem useful for the 600, only for the headset, one doesn't need it to connect the PDA & phone, they're already together!

My only gripe will be the price. Convergence units always seem to cost a lot more than what the separate PDA & Phone would cost.

RE: Nice but...
rsc1000 @ 6/18/2003 1:32:35 PM #
Get over the lack of Bluetooth for smartphones! Why would they put it there? On non-pda phones it makes sense: users can connect to the net from their PDA through there phone, for example. This means more service usage for the carrier. On a converged device like this, the consumer need for BT is less because the PDA is built in. YES - it would be nice to use BT to connect the device to yr home network, thus saving $$$ by not going through the carrier - but that is why its never going to be considered - it loses the carrier $$$. So, since it is not as in demand by consumers (not as much as non-pda phones having BT),AND since carriers don't want it, then we are not going to see it. So stop acting surprised/offended - i never even consider for a nano-second that any smartphone manufacturer will include BT. There is zero reason for them to do so.

RE: Nice but...
Altema @ 6/18/2003 2:19:05 PM #
Well, bluetooth would be very useful for connecting this device to your cell pho.... Oh,.. nevermind!

RE: Nice but...
dulinor @ 6/18/2003 3:31:03 PM #
I use bluetooth all the time - I switched from a Treo 270 to a Tungsten T + BT Phone combo about a month ago. The big thing for me is that I got a laptop with BT built in so I could sync the PDA w/o wires and use GPRS from either the laptop or the PDA at will. I loved the Treo, but it's not a laptop replacement for me when I travel, wireless GPRS from either device was too hard to pass up.

That said, I will still get this phone, but I'd rather it had Bluetooth built in than a camera. I'll only get one if the BT cards actually exist and work in the device. Thank god that the port is on the top so the antenna doesn't stick out to the side.

The 160 x 160 thing will hurt, but for an otherwise great device, I think I can get over it.

RE: Nice but...
aleclee @ 6/19/2003 11:44:37 AM #
As for the 160x160 screen, it looked great when I saw one and that was outdoors in the afternoon sun. It might not be 320x320 (I love my CLIE) but it's a good solid display.

Bluetooth would be useful for a wireless headset, though.

RE: Nice but...
73939133 @ 6/22/2003 6:13:57 AM #
Get over the lack of Bluetooth for smartphones! Why would they put it there?

For a headset. Wireless headsets are particularly nice on devices with keyboards, like this one.

it's like Oracle vs. PeopleSoft

Gekko @ 6/18/2003 8:08:44 AM #
why would you buy a Handspring when the model may not be supported or around in 6 months?



RE: it's like Oracle vs. PeopleSoft
asiayeah @ 6/18/2003 11:16:54 AM #
But when Palm and Handspring merges, Palm will continue to support the Handspring products. What makes you feel that the Treo 600 will not be supported?

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: it's like Oracle vs. PeopleSoft
mr_yellow @ 6/18/2003 6:06:26 PM #
[generallization]
I don't want to start a Palm vs. PPC debate, but having a struggling company that devotes itself 100% to supporting a product line (ie. palm OR handspring) is a heck of a lot better than relying on a huge company that half-assedly devotes a fraction of a percent of it's resources to support it's devices (ie. microsoft or any PPC manufacturer).
[/generalization]


I HATE Antenna NUBS!!!

Gekko @ 6/18/2003 8:18:13 AM #
NIX IT!!! If Nokia can have an internal antenna on their phones, why can't PDA/Phones nix the nuubs already! And no, I don'tt want to hear "no room inside because pda has more electrics/battery/etc. to squeeze in there" or "interference". that's BS. this is 2003, not 1993.

RE: I HATE Antenna NUBS!!!
mr_yellow @ 6/18/2003 6:10:56 PM #
Aesthetically, yes, antenna nubs are not cool.. But I'd rather take good reception and clear signals over a 'cool' looking phone. My nokia's (8390) antenna sucks and is very buzzy.

At least it's not one of those extender antenna nubs =)

This is what Palm bought Handspring for?

StudentDoc @ 6/18/2003 9:13:38 AM #
Good grief. The Tungsten W has more features than this and this thing still won't be ready for months. I think the old treo was better than this chunk of crap...at least it was original back then. This has taken over a year to get out?

Instead of buying HandDung, I still think they should have euthanized the company and put it out of its misery. And I think this makes it even more obvious that HS was failing quickly which is why Palm bailed them out--trying to save face for both companies. Yeah, this piece o'crap was worth 1/3 of Palm. Makes me wonder how little Palm is worth now.

RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
asiayeah @ 6/18/2003 11:25:41 AM #
I think this Treo 600 is so different from the Tungsten W.

Tungsten W is more data centric while this Treo 600 is more like a phone. Besides Treo 600 is OS 5.2 and should be much faster. It also has a built-in camera and seems to be very small, too.

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
Gremmie @ 6/18/2003 1:11:55 PM #
"Instead of buying HandDung,"

Wow, uncreative name calling...

RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
rsc1000 @ 6/18/2003 1:40:09 PM #
>>Good grief. The Tungsten W has more features than this and this thing still won't be ready for months. I think the old treo was better than this chunk of crap...at least it was original back then. This has taken over a year to get out?

T|W
---
OS 4
33Mhz
320x320
16MB RAM
SDIO
5.3 x 3.07 x 0.65 inches
6.5 oz
Requires headset

Treo 600
--------
OS 5.2
144Mhz
160x160
32MB RAM
VGA Camera
SDIO
4.4 x 2.36 x 0.87 inches
5.9 oz
standard phone speaker & mic

...so the T|W is a slow, OS 4.1 brick by comparison. The only area where it competes is screen resolution.

RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
MV-Jon @ 6/18/2003 2:31:33 PM #
Another thing everybody misses in the comparison - Treo 600 is for CDMA. Tungsten W is for GSM. Two totally different mobile standards.


Jon Niola
President/CEO
Media Vortex, Inc.

RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
Appleman @ 6/18/2003 3:15:54 PM #
"[i]Another thing everybody misses in the comparison - Treo 600 is for CDMA. Tungsten W is for GSM. Two totally different mobile standards.[/i]"

Umm, no. The Treo 600 family will have both a dual-band CDMA version and a quad-band GSM version.


RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
StudentDoc @ 6/18/2003 6:35:12 PM #
Oops, you are right. I forgot that Palm put OS 4 on the Tungsten instead of 5. I was thinking that they would have put 5 on it; so much for assumptions. So I guess this is an improvement compared to that.

I guess I am just not impressed by another cell phone.

And as far as the name calling, gremmie, I didn't mean to hurt your little feelings. I just thing Handspring is crap. Pure crap, no matter how you spell it. And I still think the merger was more of a fire sale--this piece of new crap proves it. Why does it take those fantastic engineers at Handspring (not handdung, don't want to make gremmie cry) years to make a cell phone that Kyocera and others have had forever. They put the latest OS on it and people think it is the greatest in the world. Of course, if it is built like the other handcrap (sorry gremmie), it will last about a week before you have to duct tape it together. More crap.

RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
TheMessenger @ 6/18/2003 11:06:11 PM #
I can't believe this, you people are acting like children over a phone...A PHONE!!!!!!

RE: This is what Palm bought Handspring for?
StudentDoc @ 6/19/2003 1:22:38 AM #
Yes, its true. I am having a bitter day....apologies all around.

:(

Need expert advice regarding screen size

a3 @ 6/18/2003 10:14:24 AM #
Just by checking the picture it seems as a 1.5" width x 3" height. If so, this might be the smallest Color PDA ever. As a matter of fact it gets pretty damn close to my cel phone's size so I'd say they have a winner here.
Regarding 160x160 screen I need some expert advice cuz I think that 160x160 is the size but the density may be the same as a 320x320 due to its reduced size. If so then we will have the same resolution as any other hires device.

_______________________________________
Already a Tapwave's Helix fan.
RE: Need expert advice regarding screen size
rsc1000 @ 6/18/2003 1:52:30 PM #
Definition from WhatIs.com:

resolution:

Resolution is the number of pixels (individual points of color) contained on a display monitor, expressed in terms of the number of pixels on the horizontal axis and the number on the vertical axis.

...So the the treo has a lower resolution. It is sharper than larger screens with the same res - but the low-res is low-res.

RE: Need expert advice regarding screen size
a3 @ 6/18/2003 2:43:50 PM #
Thanks dude!

Sweet!!

Zippy @ 6/18/2003 10:27:33 AM #
At last! I found the unit that will replace my Kyocera 6035.

That is one nice looking phone.

Do I really have to wait till the fall:-(

Screen to Thumb Ratio (Zire 71 vs. Treo 600)

kevdo @ 6/18/2003 10:41:06 AM #
I looked the size of the screen in the photo to the relative size of the thumb and compared it to my own thumb (not exactly a fat thumb mind you) vs. my Zire 71. The Treo screen is definitely smaller but not overly so.

I certainly think 320x320 would work on this screen. Most apps use 320x320 to provide smoother fonts rather than small itty bitty fonts anyway, so I don't see what the "readability" gripes are all about.

Would some apps assume the device is 320x320 when you had OS 5 and might crash if it is only 160x160?

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Screen to Thumb Ratio (Zire 71 vs. Treo 600)
asiayeah @ 6/18/2003 11:23:12 AM #
> Would some apps assume the device is 320x320 when you
> had OS 5 and might crash if it is only 160x160?

The screen resolution is independent of the OS. Applications use other methods to detect the screen resolution, so there won't be an issue here.

Tony



--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Screen to Thumb Ratio (Zire 71 vs. Treo 600)
rsc1000 @ 6/18/2003 1:55:18 PM #
>>The screen resolution is independent of the OS. Applications use other methods to detect the screen resolution, so there won't be an issue here.

ahhh - but there will be an issue. Although hi-res is not a requirement of OS 5 - it has become a sort of unofficial standard for a lot of OS 5 development. There is some software that assumes that if you are running it on an OS 5 device, u have hi-res. For example, mmplayer doesn't support video for low-res. In other cases, although you can run OS 4 versions using PACE, if you switch to the OS 5 version, it assumes hi-res (this is the case with some games), and so this won't work because bitmaps, etc. are in hi-res.

RE: Screen to Thumb Ratio (Zire 71 vs. Treo 600)
orb2069 @ 6/19/2003 6:31:42 AM #
...Although hi-res is not a requirement of OS 5 - it has become a sort of unofficial standard for a lot of OS 5 development. There is some software that assumes that if you are running it on an OS 5 device, u have hi-res....

Any programmer that after the IIIc-vs-Prism color problems, the whole slew of incompatable Clie' formats, the HE330 and the OS4/5 bumps 'Assumes' something without checking according to the guidelines really deserves the bug reports he's going to get.

Sprint only! Yuck!

DJS_TX @ 6/18/2003 10:49:06 AM #
Wonder how long it will take to get the GSM version out. Did anyone else notice that to sign up for the newsletter they asked for your carrier preference? They're trying to gauge support for a GSM version.

David


Not: Sprint only! Yuck!
scrinch @ 6/18/2003 12:29:41 PM #
Handspring said in their recent earnings call that the GSM version would be released before the CDMA version.
RE: Sprint only! Yuck!
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 12:42:25 PM #
I just wanted to see "Sprint only! Yuck!" again.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Sprint only! Yuck!
helf @ 6/18/2003 1:30:01 PM #
um..whats wrong with sprint? Thats what I use and I can be ANYWHERE in the US and have service..

RE: Sprint only! Yuck!
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 1:32:33 PM #
"um..whats wrong with sprint? Thats what I use and I can be ANYWHERE in the US and have service.."

Anywhere? Maybe I'll try Sprint again. My Sprint colleagues always used to borrow my Verizon phone in central Jersey until they finally switched to Verizon. I've heard that Sprint has some good unlimited data plans and they sure get the newer phones before Verizon.


Thanks, robrecht

RE: Sprint only! Yuck!
macfixer @ 6/18/2003 2:13:22 PM #
I had Sprint in Central Jersey when I lived there last year -- worked fine :)

K

RE: Sprint only! Yuck!
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 2:21:01 PM #
You mean I don't have to be indentured to Verizon any more? I was thinking of doing a refi with them.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Sprint only! Yuck!
Foo Fighter @ 6/21/2003 6:53:50 PM #
Ack! I really want this phone, but I'm stuck with Verizon. Wonder if they will even carry the Treo 600?

Size matters

Khunbenja @ 6/18/2003 10:54:26 AM #
I suspect that because the size of the screen is reduced to accomidate the new form factor, that the 160x160 resolution is in fact hires, ie, half the size of the 320x320. Can this be? Does os 5.2 support screen resolutions lower tyhan 320x320? Shucks, I don't think Palm will be backing up into a corner now that they own Handspring.

RE: Size matters
asiayeah @ 6/18/2003 11:20:30 AM #
Palm OS 5.x does support multiple screen resolutions, including 160x160, 240x240, 320x320...etc

Tony

--
With great power comes great responsiblity.

RE: Size matters
M3wThr33 @ 6/18/2003 5:36:48 PM #
MathPolice!
Half of 320x320 would be 160x320, not 160x160. A 160^2 screen is 1/4 the size of 320x320 and 1/6 of a 320x480.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

Camera? Why?

bigfoot @ 6/18/2003 11:40:27 AM #
I already own perfectly good cameras, I don't want / need another one cluttering up my PDA/SmartPhone.

Please, no more cameras.

Cheers,

RE: Camera? Why?
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 12:21:17 PM #
Amen.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Camera? Why?
goulniky @ 6/18/2003 12:56:21 PM #
cameras are for telcos (the phone companies) - that's one more way to generate traffic, assumption being you'll send pictures around. the highest the resolution the more bandwidth they'll sell.

Yv
RE: Camera? Why?
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 1:02:01 PM #
At least T-mobile has now joined Sprint (yuck) in offering more reasonable unlimited data plans. Verizon? Yeah, right.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Camera? Why?
mr_yellow @ 6/18/2003 6:15:58 PM #
Cameras are being pushed by all the GSM telecom companies because the "next big thing" is MMS. and MMS is utterly useless without camera support.

Without a camera, MMS is functionally just SMS...

also, so many companies have just jumped on the camera bandwagon because they thing 95% of the world will buy a phone with a camera vs. one that doesn't.

Oh well... It is a cool technology. but hasn't gotten much popularity over in NA. NA is like the cellphone retarded =)

Samsung is still more impressive...

Thunderball @ 6/18/2003 1:25:52 PM #
The Samsung SGH-i500 is smaller, has a smarter clamshell design and a 320x320 screen.

That is the phone I will get, depending on how badly I will want OS6...

RE: Samsung is still more impressive...
robrecht @ 6/18/2003 1:38:11 PM #
You're right, it is smaller except for thickness (3.5 x 2.3 x 1"). And when it is open, it's also bigger, ie, easier to use. Both smaller and bigger, gotta like that. If only they would come out with CDMA SGH for us backward Americans instead of that SPH thing.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Samsung is still more impressive...
gfunkmagic @ 6/18/2003 1:51:20 PM #
I started a poll on this exact topic at Treocentral:

http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34311
-------------------------------------------------

Comparison of Treo 600 vs. SGH-i500: This is a decision I think I might need to make soon, so I was wondering what ya'll opinions are! Basically, the announcement by T-mobile of unlimited gprs for $20 add-on has got me considering switching from Sprint! From my perspecitve here are the pros/cons:

Samsung SGH-500 w/Tmo unlimited gprs:
PROS:
Can't beat unlimted data! Whahooo!
TFT 320x320 transflective screen
camera, flip cover
OS 5.x, 300mhz proc, 32MB Rom/32MB Ram, SDIO; bascially incredible specs all around
can use data for laptop/pda
CONS:
No thumboard (kinda got used to it on my Treo300)
gprs is still slower than 1xrtt
Tmo shared/family plans not as good as sprint

Treo 600 w/SprintPCS unlimited data (1xrtt)
PROS:
Fast unlimited data91xrtt) with Sprint's Vison plans!
Awesome new design, looks very pocketable
Thumboard! Great for emails, IM's etc
impressive specs (OS 5.x, 133? Mhz Arm, 32MB Ram, camera, SDIO etc)
CONS:
160x160 CSTN screen HS, what were ya thinking?
No (officially) support to use 1xrtt for laptop/pda access, but you can..
No flip cover to protect screen (subjective)

----------------------------------------
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

-Pablo Picasso.

More pics of Treo 600 at Cebit!!

gfunkmagic @ 6/18/2003 1:49:51 PM #
http://www.wireless-doc.com/treo_600.htm

Check it out! There's a nice comparison pic of the Treo 600 screen vs Treo 300 screen...

----------------------------------------
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."

-Pablo Picasso.

photoshop out the keyboard and antenna parts

Gekko @ 6/18/2003 2:20:47 PM #
add 320x320 and you have a winner.

RE: photoshop out the keyboard and antenna parts
LiveFaith @ 6/18/2003 2:50:42 PM #
WHOAAA ... the TREO 490v also to be released!!!

http://churchoflivingfaith.com/images/treo480v.jpg

No cell phone, but look at the specs ...
Palm OS 5.2.2HS
204mhz TI OMAP1612 processor
32mb ram
320x480 transflective screen
SDIO
640x480 camera
Built-in bluetooth
Built-in WIFI 802.11b
Voice recorder
Palm universal connector
Release date Fall 2008'

... this is awesome. Just hope my Treo 90 holds out till then!

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: photoshop out the keyboard and antenna parts
hotpaw4 @ 6/18/2003 2:57:19 PM #
You forgot to make your photoshop mockup thicker for the larger battery required to support the hires display while still allowing decent battery life.
RE: photoshop out the keyboard and antenna parts
LiveFaith @ 6/18/2003 3:17:04 PM #
RE: photoshop out the keyboard and antenna parts
LiveFaith @ 6/18/2003 3:20:30 PM #
Actually the rear of the 490v has a power connector to carry a Sears Die Hard battery with 500 cold caking amps via an ingenious titatium and velcro belt clip. Should give battery life of between 5-7 years with wireless networking turned off.
RE: photoshop out the keyboard and antenna parts
Gekko @ 6/18/2003 7:09:51 PM #
LiveFaith - great job! just what was thinking.

i posted your pic in the forums/general/treo600

RE: photoshop out the keyboard and antenna parts
mapaman @ 6/19/2003 7:18:56 AM #
looks like this neonode phone
<http://www.neonode.com/press_images.html>

Color depth?

donsevers @ 6/18/2003 2:52:50 PM #
Any word on the color depth? Is it like Prism with 65k/16-bit or is it like earlier Treos with 4k/12-bit?
RE: Color depth? only 4096 colors
spaceboy @ 6/19/2003 1:21:25 AM #
Nope, sorry it's only 12-bit color, check out CNET for the dirt. Yes, 12-bit color equals 4096 colors, just like in the old Treos! Looks like Handspring has a ways to go to beat Samsung's PDA-phone. As is, even the P800 looks like a better deal (I'm pessimistic about the price).

Minority Report

sford @ 6/18/2003 4:25:57 PM #
Hi, my name is Sean, and I am a PDA junkie. (All together, now: "Hi Sean!")

When I bought my first Palm, back in '95, no one had ever heard of a PDA, and I mostly got laughed at. Today, I have "converted" dozens of people, and am the guy my friends, coworkers, and boss come to with PDA-related questions and problems. In fact, despite my constant recommendations, they all still come to me instead of going to places like PIC, PDABuzz, CliePlanet, etc. What's my point? Just this:

I think it's time we all accept that those of us who frequent this and other PDA-related sites and boards are among the vast minority, what's most commonly referred to as the "power users." And, I don't think the Treo 600 is targeted for the likes of us. It's targeted for the millions of people who have a cell phone and would like something more functional. Content with my NX60, I won't be switching to a 600, and I'm willing to bet that most of you won't, either. We're all still waiting for the "perfect" PDA-centric smartphone. Maybe the i500...?

_____________________________________
Ready to escape the "9 to 5" grind?!
http://www.escapethegrind.com

RE: Minority Report
iJITSU @ 6/18/2003 5:43:33 PM #
Yes, the SGH I500!

RE: Minority Report
kevdo @ 6/18/2003 7:13:47 PM #
I would agree if I didn't think a lot of programs would "break" when they try see that they're on OS 5 and try to run 320x320 and then crash.

I wish someone from Handspring would chime in on this issue. It's one thing to prefer 320x320 but another to have 160x160 and have things break.

That was the same argument made when the Zire came out with only two hardware buttons but that's a much different crowd than one throwing out $500 for a cellphone.

As much as people like to bemoan the fact that we're "power users" remember that we are talking about a $500 device likely to include a very high percentage of "early adopters" and power users.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Minority Report
Palmary @ 6/18/2003 9:19:46 PM #
My experience is very similar to Sean's.

I'm an early adopter, have owned a V, Vx, M505, M515 and currently own two TTs. I'm not overly excited by the 600 - I don't like thumboards, couldn't go back to low-res, and personally think the 600 is ugly (can't companies learn form Mac and produce something elegant?).

However, I think that HS have probably pitched the 600 at a well-identified market. If my organisation is an indication the 600 will be bought by senior execs.

Stand by for huge generalisations :-)

The same people who insist that 'lesser' beings must produce ROI documents to justify a low-end phone or M series Palm will cheerfully purchase the 600. BUT they will not know how to use it to anything like its potential. They don't add software, they don't know (or care) about comparative about technical specifications, and they they will probably be most attracted by the idea of only carrying one 'toy' instead of two.

My CEO insisted on a TT paired with a Nokia 6310i, he has not loaded a SINGLE third party app, and never dialed-in to his email. I loaded DTG for him and he has yet to transfer a single document to the Palm. But he is perfectly happy because he can always access his diary and address book (managed and synched by his PA). And (apart being annoyed by seeing tech staff starved of decent equipment) who am I to say he's wrong? He can afford the gear and it satisfies his requirements.

This experience is repeated across the entire group of senior managers, who followed the CEO's lead in buying high-end Palms. None of them use anything other than Address Book and Date Book!

While I share much of the disappointment expressed in this forum, I find it difficult to say that HS have definitely goofed, and I'm sure I'll be asked to support 600s in the near future :-)

"Earnestness is just stupidity sent to college" P.J. O'Rourke

battery?
southbound747 @ 6/19/2003 12:36:39 AM #
the screen res is less of an issue for me than the battery. a permanent battery in what will soon be 2004? what phone can you not replace the battery to? that is the first thing to go for a power user...making the phone obsolete/useless. that was a crime.

this is something that should be standard in all pdas/smartphones at this point. it is really unexcusable.

yeah i know, it is a high capacity battery (just adds more weight...)a smaller "swappable" battery would have been the way to go, especially if you want the phone market

The 600 won't replace my PDA, it'll replace my Nokia...

diment0 @ 6/19/2003 8:02:59 AM #
Hello:

Okay, I am carrying an Ericsson T68 right now but I hope I have made my point. The 600 is much more likely to replace current generation cell/ smart phones rather than the latest feature ladden PDA. Then again since owning the T68 I have found that my Palm m500 stays in my backpack more often then not. I just occassionally use it to look something up.

And I used to be a hardcore PDA user (Newton, General Magic, Pilot 1000, etc.) and was squarely in the camp of one device for everything sucks: keep dedicated, separate devices at your ready and connect 'em via Bluetooth. So while Bluetooth would be nice, I don't consider it an essential anymore. I only use the BT card in my m500 to wirelessly collect email messages, etc. via my T68. Wireless headsets have proven to be too much of a hassle to deal with on the go.

I for one am quite intrigued by the pictures of the Treo 600 that I have seen so far. The design reminds me a bit of the early Ericsson mobiles. Though it would be even nicer (read: more pocketable) without that protruding antenna. This one just might still be the device that'll replace my Ericsson T68. I have been waiting for quite some time!

(The Samsung doesn't cut it for me because it's a clamshell design without a swivel hinge which I personally don't like. The clamshell (ie. Startac) design seems to be more popular in the US while most folks I have met in Europe seem to prefer designs by Nokia, Ericsson et al sans clamshells.)

Since everyone who is posting here is by definition a geek, take my opinion for what it's worth ;)

All best, Chris.

All phones will eventually be PDA-phones
Satan @ 6/19/2003 9:10:24 AM #
Fact: (Small) size matters.


So far, size issues have prevented the acceptance of PDA-phones. Once there is no longer a size penalty for carrying a PDA-phone (i.e. consumers get the PDA part "for free"), PDA-phones will take over. Initially, they will be executive toys, but eventually they will cannibalize the standalone PDA market. Given how most people - not the people posting here - actually use their PDAs (contacts, schedule, to do list, occasional game), standalone PDAs will quickly become redundant.

With improved bandwidth, picture (and then video) messaging will also be inevitable. The Treo 600 is closer to what convergence is all about than most - if not all - other devices announced to this point.

Who needs 320x320 ?

PALMNUTZ @ 6/20/2003 1:00:38 PM #
I am still using my Motorola cell phone from 1988 that weighs 4 pounds, has a 1 line 8 character led readout and a battery life of 1 hour. It works fine for me. And I have an H2 pencil and a piece of paper I've save from when I was in Grade 5, so I can write my appointments, addresses and to-do list on it.
Who needs a multi-tasking 320 by 480 resolution phone/PDA with POS 6.0, 10 hour battery life, a jog dial, a 6 Mega Pixel camera, a trans-reflective screen, voice recognition and a neural net processor plugged into wifi, bluetooth and the 24 hour Cartoon channel? Who really needs a Palm or a PPC? We all can get by just sending each other telegrams by Morse Code like they did in 1890. Come to think of it, we don't need cars or stereos either. Horses and silentm movies were way better. We don't need electricity either. Propane lamps and firewood were better. Face it, most of the time most of us have nothing of note to say or do so we are just bothering others by phoning them. 160 by 160 resolution is overkill. Why doesn't Handspring/Palm reduce it to 40 by 40 and tell us how great that is, and why we should buy that?
Please Palm, keep your top-of-the line devices with mono, or no sound, and less screen resolution than Sony, and with slower processors than PPCs. We want to use hardware PDAs that have worse specifications than your competitors. But you already knew that. Thanks.
RE: Who needs 320x320 ?
lechter @ 6/25/2003 12:36:13 AM #
40 x 40 is too much. True men use 16 x 16.

Treo 600: Final Word

mikecane @ 6/21/2003 10:43:21 AM #
Will kick M$'s Smartphone's butt all over the place!

RE: Treo 600: Final Word
Foo Fighter @ 6/21/2003 6:56:44 PM #
Agreed. Despite the low-res display, this phone looks like a winner. I'd gladly choose this over MS Bugphone 2003.

RE: Treo 600: Final Word
mikecane @ 6/21/2003 9:26:14 PM #
I just *know* I'm going to witness this scene more than once:

Salesman: ...and, of course, you can run all of your existing PalmOS software on this Treo 600.

Young Woman (who owns low-end CLIE or Zire): REALLY?!!? I don't have to buy anything new to do that?! I'll take it! I'm sold!

(For those who might carp that a low-end CLIE might have a 320x320 screen -- so what? Odds are that *none* of the software she's using is optimized for 320x320!)

And then, of course, she'll tell her girlfriends, and her mother, and then her husband will see the thing...

... geez, better buy Palm stock!!

RE: Treo 600: Final Word
Gekko @ 6/22/2003 9:14:25 AM #
unless this phone/pda (or any other phone) sells for $150 or less (which it won't) the masses out there will not buy it and it will fail.

you need to stop thinking what *you* (read: tech geek) want/will pay for and start thinking what joe lunchbucket wants/will pay for.

the basic FREE-$150 color Nokia (with basic pda features) is what most people will buy.

http://www.attws.com/buy/consumer/

i'm not saying the treo 600 is a bad product, i just doubt that it will be able to hit any critical mass at its price point. and can treo/palm survive as just a small niche player?



RE: Treo 600: Final Word
abosco @ 6/22/2003 6:58:31 PM #
Gekko's right. This looks like an awesome phone, but smartphone prices are all over the place. Isn't there any way I can get a half-decent smartphone for under $300?

Until this happens, Nokia and Symbian will continue dominating.

... But I think this will do better than MS Smartphone. It even looks cooler.

-Bosco

RE: Treo 600: Final Word
mikecane @ 6/23/2003 9:43:16 AM #
Symbian dominate? Are they priced that low?

I looked at the fine Sony Ericcson Symbian phone/PDA and, geez, it's $600 *with* a service plan. $800 *without*!

Gekko is right about price. It's still too early to tell what the Treo will come in at because it hasn't been released. Let's hope it's heavily subsidized so the price is low.

RE: Treo 600: Final Word
ansmania @ 6/27/2003 4:53:08 AM #
hmmm watched the 7 min clip and he mentioned like without service providers they are targeting US$400 to US$500....

IRDA port?

southbound747 @ 6/23/2003 5:14:15 PM #
does anyone know if the new treo 600 will have an infra red port so that i can beam stuff to other pdas? this something the earlier treos did not have. this is a deal breaker for me. i need to be able to beam stuff ro my wife.

RE: IRDA port?
jennyfur @ 6/27/2003 3:15:01 PM #
Um, what? The earlier Treo's DID have an IR port that you could beam stuff with. I own a Treo 180 (the first one, got it right when they came out) and it has IR... so I'd assume that every following model (the 270 and 300) does as well. So no reason why the new Treo 600 wouldn't either....

Since I hardly every beam anything I just disabled it in my Treo's settings since it's a battery drain anyway.

I think the new Treo looks great. It has all the power and features most people would need in a convergence device. And I'm not referring to just mindless execs that can afford to have something they hardly ever use. I'll wait a little while to get one after they come out though, already learned my lesson after being an early adopter with the original one *grumble*. And I have to agree with the advice that "power users" should just buy a standalone PDA, cuz there isn't going to be a convergance device that will fit all their needs for quite awhile.

I can live without bluetooth seeing as how the only use for it I could ever imagine would be syncing and possibly a headset, the latter of which I've heard still don't sound all that good. And speaking of bluetooth, this might be of interest to all you people that keep whining about the Treo 600 not having it:

From Phonescoop.com: "Speaking of Bluetooth, the Handspring engineers specifically left room on the Treo 600 circuit board for a Bluetooth module. It won't be included in initial releases, but Handspring spokesperson Brian Jaquet said there was very strong possibility that an updated version would be released with Bluetooth."

My personal thoughts are that if you want it that bad, get the bluetooth SD card. I'd rather not spend more money on a phone for features most people won't use.

As for the screen size, this is meant to primarily be a PHONE, not a PDA. There's nothing I hate in a phone more than bulkiness and weight. If you want some brick that can fit a 320x320 screen, then fine - don't buy a Treo. The camera thing is a bit overkill IMHO, but once again this thing is competing with phones and right now camera phones are hot hot hot. So one silly feature on an otherwise great looking device won't bother me much.

why no flip cover

salazar @ 7/16/2003 12:13:23 PM #
I've been waiting for a year for a new treo so I can stop carrying a palm and a phone, but I always throw them both in my pockets, so my favorite feature of the treo line was the flip cover. I hope someone comes up with an easy way to add one or maybe handspring will add one.

Problems with VisorPhone what I do not like about Treo 600

kushak @ 8/1/2003 9:04:40 AM #
What about the issue of international character SMS?
I own a VisorPhone and I have Greek Support and when I send or receive Greeek SMS it is all high ASCII characters. I have seen the same happen on the Treo.

I just hope that Handspring will fix this problem with SMS and that if such a fix/patch is available and that someone will let me know and give me a link to download it.

One of the things I do not like about the Treo 600 is the Antena! It should not be there! The antena is one of the reasons why "Ericsson" became "SonyEricsson"

Another thing is the fact that there is no Bluetooth! There should be at least the ability to make it bluetooth by your self.

Regards & TIA

RE: Problems with VisorPhone what I do not like about Treo 600
kostas @ 2/19/2004 7:01:51 PM #
I just bought a Treo 180g and I have also problems with the sms in Greek. Does anyone know how to fix it?

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