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Comments on: Magnetoresistive RAM on the Way

Motorola, IBM and other companies have been working on developing the next generation of memory technology called magnetoresistive, or MRAM. MRAM promised much faster speeds and drastically lower power requirement and could be used in PDA by this time next year.
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Sounds like marketing hype

MountainLogic @ 7/11/2003 3:55:11 PM #
To be honest I've not yet seen signs that MR is getting ready for market. I've yet to have a vendor walk in my door telling me that they'll have MR in their road maps.

RE: Sounds like marketing hype
ray00pal @ 7/11/2003 5:18:32 PM #
You are correct. Who the hell needs a MRAM when Clie cn not even break the 16M barrier. It is not smaller if you take the mag shield into account.

There is NO way to shield out Mag field since it will induce mirror field beyond a metal barrier. You will need to actually consume the external field's energy to shield it.

Say I invented a way to store 1000000GB in an egg, whould you care?

RE: Sounds like marketing hype
mikecane @ 7/11/2003 5:38:02 PM #
>Say I invented a way to store 1000000GB in an egg, whould you care?


-- only if, by eating it, I'd have all that info etched into my brain.

RE: Sounds like marketing hype
Be3G @ 7/11/2003 5:42:48 PM #
Quote (originally posted by ray00pal)

Say I invented a way to store 1000000GB in an egg, whould you care?

:-O One whole PB - a quarillion bytes!

Thomas

Check out the *updated* Palm Tungsten|T review at www.comp-talk.co.uk

RE: Sounds like marketing hype
Be3G @ 7/11/2003 6:28:25 PM #
whoops... should say "quadrillion"!

Thomas

Check out the *updated* Palm Tungsten|T review at www.comp-talk.co.uk

This is *NOT* a hype.
mint @ 7/11/2003 9:12:42 PM #
MRAM will use ZERO Electric power to retain memory, which mean you do not need to keep you PDA on all the time. The stand-by time would be a history because you basicly can just turn your PDA off! and that would be the same to laptops.

For desktop, thinking about *ZERO* boot time, because all the memory would be there after you turn it off and turn on again. No need to reboot and read operating system from disc, because it is already in the memory. Think about powerfailure and you still have *everthing* when the power comes back. You can kiss your personal UPS goodbye.

MRAM *will* change the use of computers big time.

___________________________________
if it's not practical, it's a cult.

RE: Sounds like marketing hype
73939133 @ 7/12/2003 8:20:41 AM #
For desktop, thinking about *ZERO* boot time,

We already get that, with suspend-to-RAM. The power savings from MRAM over regular DRAM are negligible for desktop use. If you don't use suspend-to-RAM today, MRAM probably won't make you change your habits either.

It still takes a little bit of time to restart because hardware needs to be reinitialized.


RE: Sounds like marketing hype
noodle @ 7/12/2003 9:00:20 PM #
well, as long as that egg taste nice then I would scramble it and include in my breakfast menu for 365days. =P

Mram for desktop pcs might would be bit too complicated? because it also got to keep up with bus speed and stuff. I think mram for desktop or laptops would be more complicated then handhelds. though, it is just my think and no, i'm not electronic techi nethier. =)

RE: Sounds like marketing hype
noodle @ 7/12/2003 9:00:20 PM #
well, as long as that egg taste nice then I would scramble it and include in my breakfast menu for 365days. =P

Mram for desktop pcs might would be bit too complicated? because it also got to keep up with bus speed and stuff. I think mram for desktop or laptops would be more complicated then handhelds. though, it is just my think and no, i'm not electronic techi nethier. =)

RE: Sounds like marketing hype
ray00pal @ 7/14/2003 3:56:56 PM #
I have used the suspend mode for the Desktop, what happened was that it takes a long time to boot. Why? because it takes a lot of time to write back 512MB of stuff back to RAM.
I will say, the best way is to have the RAM over the net somewhere, which never shuts down and...

Wait, what the ****, I seems be talking about a dumb terminal connected to a mainframe. We are not going to let a mainframe control our life again are we?

MRAM is the magic word!!!

I_M_Anonymous @ 7/11/2003 4:08:09 PM #
Its profound impacts on computing technology will be seen in the next couple years. The introduction of MRAM will signaficantly affect the PC industry as that of IBM PC archetecture.


You must be a poet
I.M. Anonymous @ 7/11/2003 11:47:15 PM #
Your words are perfect in every way.

You are so special to us all.

Please post more - thou art truly the Bard returned.


Land of the free

RE: MRAM is the magic word!!!
I.M Anonymous @ 7/13/2003 5:50:30 PM #
Do I detect some sarcasm here?

(sorry, just trying to complete the trifecta)

Effect of Magnetic Fields

palmhiker @ 7/11/2003 4:46:21 PM #
How will this memory be effected when coming into contact with magnets or magnetic fields generated by motors, etc.?

I know what happens to a VHS tape when you bring it into contact with a magnet....

RE: Effect of Magnetic Fields
htomlinson @ 7/11/2003 4:57:41 PM #
An interesting question! Unlike for memory in PCs which isn't likely to be subjected to changing magnetic fields, PDAs get carried everywhere...

As I understand it, the advantage to MRAM is that it doesn't require a refresh current to keep the data live. If exposure to magnetic fields means it does need to be refreshed occasionally to prevent "bit rot" (as one of our developers calls it), then some of that power advantage is lost. It will be very interesting to find out whether this really is a concern!

RE: Effect of Magnetic Fields
T.W.G @ 7/11/2003 5:02:08 PM #
You'll get a hardreset even without noticing it :-)


Hopefully this technology IS resistent against external magnetic fields. If not... see above :)

greetings

Thomas
www.twgmusic.de


RE: Effect of Magnetic Fields
I_M_Anonymous @ 7/11/2003 5:38:12 PM #
Magnetic fields is not a big problem since they can be shielded effectively. MRAM chips have been used by military for a few years now since they are not affected by electronic fields, which is a real problem to most chips.


RE: Effect of Magnetic Fields
I.M Anonymous @ 7/11/2003 9:04:01 PM #
Your credit cards use magnetic memory, we carry them everywhere, and it is rare for those to be erased. I doubt that it will be much of a problem.

Great things to come...

JKingGrim @ 7/11/2003 5:27:22 PM #
OLED+MRAM+Palm OS 6=WOW!!!!!

RE: Great things to come...
73939133 @ 7/12/2003 8:22:44 AM #
What does PalmOS 6 have to do with that?

RE: Great things to come...
abosco @ 7/13/2003 3:51:16 PM #
Palm OS 6 is currently MIA. It should have been released this summer along with two new ARM-based Palms, but as usual, Palm has dropped the ball. At least they have finally stopped pretending 16 MHz processors and 8 MB memory are "enough".

Palm OS 5 was more accurately Palm OS 4.2 and even this release was delayed. See a pattern yet? Care to start a pool betting on when Palm OS 6 will really be released?

I hope Palm gets their act together and actually manages to advance the OS for a change. Besides color support, what we have now is not significantly better than the OS in the original Pilots. (Not that there was much wrong with the old Palm OS.)

I'm proud you decided to call yourself I.M. Anonymous. You carry on the true trollish attitude of the former IMAs. Now let's get started on making you look dumb...

First, who said OS 6 was supposed to be released this summer? All early reports said late 2003, then reports said fall 2003, now reports say it will be released by the end of the year, while rumors are coming in that OS 6 Clies and Palms with 128 MB RAM and OS 6 will be released before Thanksgiving. OS 6 is very real, and they're delivering their promise on time. So far, OS 5.2 has been released on time, which is a good sign that PalmSource is making long strides.

You see, it was set VERY early that OS 5 was to be an ARM-based bridge to hold the platform over until OS 6 and provide the hardware necessary to perform the transition. It's PalmSource's plan to updating Palm OS with the times. OS 5 provides the hardware while OS 6 provides the software on top of the hardware. This was set in stone from the very beginning, and you may have been too stoned to understand it.

Not significantly better than the original Pilots, huh. Yeah, 2 MP cameras and camcorders, dual wireless, dual slots, HVGA 16 bit screens, HWR, and almost 20,000 applications is little progress, huh. There was no cosmetic change. OS 5 was promised to be an under-the-hood change, and that's what it gave us. Now, my NX70v is running at 302 MHz and can hang with the best of them. With NO other platform can I find something as feature-rich as the NX series. The Zaurus is great on the hardware, but application support is little.

PPC comes close, but I want a camera and a screen better than QVGA for God's sake.

-Bosco

RE: Great things to come...
I.M Anonymous @ 7/13/2003 5:52:40 PM #
"Not significantly better than the original Pilots, huh?"

Well, many people I've talked to are desperate for a Palm Vx. Yes, you heard me right, a Vx. Can you name 1 product released in the past year with better:
a) battery life
b) thinness
c) overall size
d) overall weight
e) sunlight/indoor screen readability
f) affordability

No, you cannot. Sure there are color screens and mp3 players, bargan PDA's like the crippled Zire, and tiny PDA's like the Fossils, but it seems that improvement in one category comes at the cost of all the other ones. Seriously, what is wrond with making a simple, compact datebook replacement. Last time I checked, my datebook was not an entertainment center.

-- The "good" IMA

RE: Great things to come...
helf @ 7/13/2003 6:41:24 PM #
I still use a handera 330 :) One of the best palms made to date IMO.

RE: Great things to come...
73939133 @ 7/14/2003 1:15:17 AM #
Not significantly better than the original Pilots, huh. Yeah, 2 MP cameras and camcorders, dual wireless, dual slots, HVGA 16 bit screens, HWR,

Yes, Palm hardware keeps improving. It's too bad that the operating system isn't keeping up.

Palm OS 5 hardware corresponds to what used to be high-end UNIX workstations, but the software crashes with regularity, can't multitask, can't adapt to unknown screen sizes, has no support for security, and on and on.

The quality, engineering, and progress of Palm OS can only be described as pathetic.

and almost 20,000 applications is little progress, huh. There was no cosmetic change.

So does DOS. That doesn't make DOS a good operating system.

RE: Great things to come...
JKingGrim @ 7/16/2003 9:21:59 AM #
"Not significantly better than the original Pilots, huh?"

Well, many people I've talked to are desperate for a Palm Vx. Yes, you heard me right, a Vx. Can you name 1 product released in the past year with better:
a) battery life
b) thinness
c) overall size
d) overall weight
e) sunlight/indoor screen readability
f) affordability

No I can't, but I can name many with better:

a) mp3 playback
b) color
c) screen resolution
d) memory
e) expandability
f) built-in pheriphals
g) wireless
h) speed

Shall I bore you with an entire list ye uneducated one?

Seriously, what is wrond with making a simple, compact datebook replacement.

Ummmmm, Zire?

Last time I checked, my datebook was not an entertainment center.

Good for you. If you don't want wealthy features for the hard earned money you pay, good for you. Are you Amish?

Yes, Palm hardware keeps improving. It's too bad that the operating system isn't keeping up.

Palm OS 5 hardware corresponds to what used to be high-end UNIX workstations, but the software crashes with regularity, can't multitask, can't adapt to unknown screen sizes, has no support for security, and on and on.

The quality, engineering, and progress of Palm OS can only be described as pathetic.

and almost 20,000 applications is little progress, huh. There was no cosmetic change.

So does DOS. That doesn't make DOS a good operating system.

Yes it does. Even though DOS has no bangs, whistles or visual effects, just the fact that it can run a vast number of programs makes it good. It is not better than others, but it is good. When you use your PDA, you don't use it for the OS. Tee OS alone does nothing. You use it for the programs that the OS runs. Therefore an OS is only as good as the programs it runs.

Bubble memory?

mikecane @ 7/11/2003 5:39:03 PM #
Anyone here old enough to know what that is?

Anyone here tech savvy enough to know what happened to it?

RE: Bubble memory?
IanJD @ 7/11/2003 6:26:00 PM #
Only 'cos they referenced it on Dr Who.

IIRC they both faded away because the alternatives were cheaper. :)

RE: Bubble memory?
Haber @ 7/12/2003 4:52:33 AM #
I'm 20, but I have heard/read about bubble memory. Magnetic memory, basically. I'm not sure how it works, specifically. It died because other memory technologies were faster and less expensive, of course.

RE: Bubble memory?
Strider_mt2k @ 7/14/2003 6:55:49 PM #
Is that anything like core memory where charges were stored in tiny coils? Or am I just re-describing bubble memory?

strider_mt2k@yahoo.com
RE: Bubble memory?
mikecane @ 7/14/2003 9:19:18 PM #
Bah! I should've just Googled and saved everyone this trouble.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fjkraan/comp/pc5000/bubble.html

RE: Bubble memory?
McTrinsic @ 7/15/2003 2:33:18 AM #
Didnt the old Sharp 8-bit computer have some sort of bubble-memory-thing in a 2.8" disk??

Have fun,
McTrinsic

Magnet!!!!!

Tungstenman @ 7/13/2003 9:26:06 AM #
>The article stated that this uses magnetic charges to contain data.

What if you held a magnet up to you pda, all of your data will be lost, or atleast scrambled.

Steve, Tungsten owner

RE: Magnet!!!!!
I.M Anonymous @ 7/13/2003 6:01:07 PM #
And if you held a magnet to your credit or ATM card, the same thing would happen, yet we don't see mass panic about that yet.

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