MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Sony Japan Unveils the Clie PEG-UX50

Sony Clie PEG UX-50Sony Japan has taken the wraps of the new Clie, expected to be officially announced in San Francisco tomorrow. The Clie PEG-UX50 has a mini laptop like design with a swivel screen and built in keyboard. The device has a integrated in Wi-Fi and Bluetooth wireless as well as a digital camera.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (229 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.

Down

My reaction:

Moosecat @ 7/17/2003 10:59:01 AM #
All I can say is: Gadzooks! Holy moly! Criminy! Jiminy whillikers!

I just bought a Tungsten C, so it won't affect my life much, but it sure is interesting.

RE: My reaction:
a3 @ 7/17/2003 11:51:40 AM #
Well it sure packs a lot of stuff... Its a pity that no one for Apple's design division works for Sony, cuz this thing does not have a nice look.

Anyway all the things included makes me give it a thought...

_______________________________________
Already a Tapwave's Helix fan.

RE: My reaction:
maddie @ 7/17/2003 5:08:08 PM #
Not for me it doesn't. 32MEG with 16 available to user, same predicament that I am in without the big price tag it will carry, $500+. It might it been called the NX, NR series!! What a put down, I think they could of refined the unit a little more.

RE: My reaction: GREAT
graph @ 7/17/2003 9:32:52 PM #
Somehow they managed to put their trademark, lousy keyboard. from the looks of it its still not raised enough like normal miniKB, i mean not raised- period.

RE: My reaction:
spn @ 7/18/2003 3:30:01 PM #
Heh, couldn't help notice the one comment that Sony
should take styling cues from Apple - Please... If
Apple is the style leader, wouldn't everyone be
using their products?

Whatever floats your boat I say, I just don't think
Apple is the be-all end all of technology with style.

I think Sony does just fine without their help.
Hey, I love what Palm did with the Tungsten
very cool...

I just held off on getting one because of the audio
playback issues.. but now I've heard they've been resolved... May be getting a TT soon

Also known as...

Fammy @ 7/17/2003 11:00:03 AM #
You could call this the world's smallest laptop. Or at least it looks like a laptop. =)

-- Fammy
RE: Also known as...
epall @ 7/17/2003 11:57:29 AM #
I (and others) believe that this type of Clie will come to compete with sublaptops and tablets.

RE: Also known as...
Geek Geezer @ 7/17/2003 12:35:02 PM #
People don't believe it, but if, like most of my co-workers, all you do is lug your laptop back and forth to work, then a capable handheld can cover you 90% of the time. Files can be pushed to the web for use on the home machine and the handheld runs your tools when not home. Given the tendancy to get laid off at a moments notice I don't run any of my personal tools on the companys machine anymore.

What about --

mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:00:00 AM #
NO portrait mode! NO Decuma! The Mini-Stylus of the NXes, 73 and 80.

It'll sell a million -- but not to malcontents like me.

OTOH, maybe tomorrow Sony will say the version coming to America *will* support portrait mode and include Decuma. Remember: the original CLIE that came to the US included MP3 playing, while the released-earlier-in-Japan one did not until later.

RE: What about --
gfunkmagic @ 7/17/2003 11:07:22 AM #
Also, still no dual expansion? If sony wanted to get rid of the CF slot b/c of size restictions etc...fine. But why not dual MSPro or even MSPro + Duo combo?!

Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.
RE: What about --
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:12:37 AM #
Well, it can use Duos, apparently. Single slot, though.

I'm wise to Sony's tactics now.

They *do* think of *everything* -- then pare away 10% of that and OK for production. They think if they put in *everything*, people will stop buying.

Hey, Sony! In this rotten economy, you're lucky people can still buy anything at all!

RE: What about --
izadwen @ 7/17/2003 11:14:01 AM #
RE: What about --
Tungsten @ 7/17/2003 11:14:54 AM #
"Also, still no dual expansion?"
Sony incorporated CF into their high-end handhelds specifically for the WLAN card. It was a temporary measure to keep costs down. Did you really think they were pushing CF as hard as their homegrown MS?

"If sony wanted to get rid of the CF slot b/c of size restictions etc...fine."
This thing is not much larger than a GBA:SP. It's pocket- not laptop-sized. It has built-in WiFi + BT. Just how else would you fit a CF slot in there?

RE: What about --
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:16:03 AM #
&^%$#@! I *missed* that tiny screenshot when going through the pages. I remember now that I was staring at that ridiculously-small Spacebar in the photo at left.

Thanks for the correction.

OK, Sony! You only have to add portrait mode!!

RE: What about --
rened @ 7/17/2003 12:07:00 PM #
This my only hesitation too. But maybe it's in there (?). Or maybe it's impossible. What if you start an app an then switch from landscape to portrait mode, the app should get a message from the hardware and switch. Hope it's on their list.

RE: What about --
hoodoo @ 7/17/2003 12:34:13 PM #
You guys are hilarious. I thought everyone was hoping for landscape mode! You still have 320 vertically, and you're all complaining. Give me a break. It will be awesome for spreadsheets.

RE: What about --
hoodoo @ 7/17/2003 12:47:56 PM #
Oh yeah and web surfing -> landscape all the way.

A wide keyboard. It's clamshell! you don't need a stupid flip cover/ case. I new someone would turn the Gameboy Advance SP into a PDA. Yeah.

Probably will clock in at $999 CAD.

RE: What about --
Foo Fighter @ 7/17/2003 1:00:46 PM #
So, Mike. The screen isn't square, eh? Hmm...who was it that said this screen would not be landspace? ;-)

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
What on earth is Documa?
Enfors @ 7/17/2003 1:05:15 PM #
What on earth is Documa? I see it in the screenshot in the link given above, but I can't figure out what it is, and what all the fuss is about? Is it some type of software allowing you to write Japanese signs with the stylus or something?

-Enfors-
The evils of Landscape mode
johnbartley @ 7/17/2003 2:34:20 PM #
The evils of landscape mode only are aparant to 9-11% of world population; the Sinister (left-handed).

Imagine trying to use the stylus for text entry on it, if you are left-handed.



RE: What about --
cmoney @ 7/17/2003 3:06:23 PM #
That would be a real shame if they don't include left hand support. It would be pretty much useless to me in that case. Otherwise, this looks pretty awesome. I've been wanting a color Sidekick, but with BT and my phone, this may serve well enough, along with saving the extra data fee for the Sidekick.

RE: What about --
rsc1000 @ 7/17/2003 3:10:43 PM #
Why do you all think that there is no portait mode? I am hoping spny is not so dumb as to break compatibility with all of the apps that use their hi-res+ API. Think about this - the simple addition of portrait mode adds the ability to run what has become hundreds of apps that use this - surely they would f$@% that up? OK - they might. But i'm betting portrait mode is their.

Now for some real beefs:
-The keyboard should have a more 'laptop' like look and feel (like on many wince landscazpe devices of yor).
-a freaking d-pad! come on sony - your the PalmOS manufacturer who openly declares yr devices (its what the name clie stand for for petes sake) as enterainment devices - so let us play games already.
-screw the camera. get rid of it , making the device narrower when in tablet mode and then - presto! - it might fit in the pocket of a actual humn being!

All complaints aside, this looks like a very cool and innovative device.

RE: What about --
JonAcheson @ 7/17/2003 3:47:31 PM #
John Bartley,

I do wonder why anyone wanting to input via graffiti, left or right-handed, would be using such an obviously keyboard-centric device in the first place.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: What about --
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 5:46:21 PM #
Foo sputtered: "So, Mike. The screen isn't square, eh? Hmm...who was it that said this screen would not be landspace? ;-)"

-- I ate my crow in the original thread where I said that. Did you?!

And Decuma is a great handwriting recognition alternative to that Spawn of Satan: Graffiti 2! Go try Decuma on the new NXes, the 73 and 80.

RE: What about --
Foo Fighter @ 7/17/2003 6:01:40 PM #
Mike Cane: "Did you?!"

Did I what?

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: What about --
JKingGrim @ 7/17/2003 10:30:45 PM #
I do wonder why anyone wanting to input via graffiti, left or right-handed, would be using such an obviously keyboard-centric device in the first place.

What if its dark and you can't see the keys? Or what if you cant stand the @%#$&$* keyboard!

RE: What about --
Fly-By-Night @ 7/18/2003 5:28:08 AM #
Backlit keyboard matey!

FBN

-----
Ceci n'est pas une signature.

Just about right

izadwen @ 7/17/2003 10:57:28 AM #
I have been sitting on a SJ20 for a while now and I have to say, this one has got my attention. Sure its not perfect, but all the people complaining about, the missing CF, the amount of memory, the awkwardness of one hand use, all have to understand that concessions have to be made. You me not get exactly what you want but give Sony credit for pushing the limit. Now to find the Ca$h

Sucks!

orev @ 7/17/2003 11:11:16 AM #
What, there's no DVD player? Not even DSS 5.1 digital sound? It better have at least 1 GB of RAM in there, otherwise it is a total waste of money. It may do Wi-Fi, but that's soooo out of date. Where's the 802.16 WiMAX? What about Firewire? Where's the 1600x1200 screen? How about the battery life - it better last at least 6 months between charges, I mean, come on!

Anything over $50 for this unit is going to miss out on their target market anyway...

What's the problem Sony?? Are you listening?!

(I figured I'd get the ball rolling - I know some dumbass is going to start in with stuff like this)


RE: Sucks!
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:20:44 AM #
Oh, hell. All I want is portrait mode! What's so wrong -- or technically difficult! -- about that?!

RE: Sucks!
reigndub @ 7/17/2003 11:48:25 AM #
what is totally strange, This dual wireless handheld can't handle streaming media whatsoever.

The OS is not able to handle streaming .mp3 or video. It cannot do video conferencing either, despite having camera and WiFi/BT.

Man the OS is really showing some strain against cutting edge hardware.

What do people suppose to use this dual wireless for? email, browser and IM? Such a shiny hardware, and so little software capability.

RE: Sucks!
mashoutposse @ 7/17/2003 12:05:18 PM #
Mikecane: Wasn't it you who INSISTED that this new Clie COULDN'T POSSIBLY have a landscape screen layout???

Please ****, friend.

RE: Sucks!
a3 @ 7/17/2003 12:06:49 PM #
Well, correct me if Im wrong but according to Infosync it can paly video at 30fps. This may not be streaming video when compared to my DVD player but it definitely beats the crap out of any other PDA (Palm and Pocket).

Regarding Mike's portrait mode request: why don't you wait until next friday? If not here's my guess: since they allow the screen to flip then they can do two things: allow a right end virtual grafitti to pop out and then portrait mode will be there. Kinda awkward since the hard buttons were not included below the screen as with the latest Clie's even though there seems to be space left. On the other hand, since they used Palm OS5.2 you'll write on the screen so no VG area will be needed and landscape will be the only way... in othe words, lets wait until next friday.

_______________________________________
Already a Tapwave's Helix fan.

RE: Sucks!
rened @ 7/17/2003 12:10:46 PM #
@orev: that's what we have laptops for :-) I don't want a dvd-player sized pda.

RE: Sucks!? NOT!!!!
a3 @ 7/17/2003 12:32:29 PM #
Well maybe somebody else said it already, but just in case: IT HAS A COOL ORANGE BACKLIGHT KEYBOARD!!!!

_______________________________________
Already a Tapwave's Helix fan.
RE: Sucks!
Be_True @ 7/17/2003 12:55:51 PM #
"30 fps beats the crap out of all the other PDA's"

Since when??

My Tungsten C can do 100 fps
without a "graphics engine"

Why isn't this one faster?



RE: Sucks!
mashoutposse @ 7/17/2003 1:11:23 PM #
Your Tungsten C doesn't play MPEG files. It plays Kinoma .pdb's, which definitely aren't MPEGs. Every Palm OS5 device can play these at framerates (far) exceeding 100fps.

This Sony will allow you to transfer your MPEG files from the desktop WITHOUT CONVERSION and play them at 30fps. NO other PDA can do this at this time.

RE: Sucks!
Be_True @ 7/17/2003 2:07:51 PM #
I stand corrected.

Thanks for clearing that up.
I knew something wasn't adding up right.


By the way, what is the CPU speed of the Clie UX-50?

-Chris

RE: Sucks!
bcombee @ 7/17/2003 2:19:06 PM #
OS 5 isn't preventing anyone from writing streaming media software. It had most of the support needed, including strong networking and sound playback. The only real limitation would be not having a good multimedia timing infrastructure which is needed to syncronize audio and video playback. You can still do that, but it becomes more difficult for the application.

--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
Slow?
hotpaw4 @ 7/17/2003 3:12:07 PM #
According to this web page:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0717/sony2.htm ,
the "Handheld Engine" ARM926 CPU in the UX50 clocks at a max of 123 MHz. That's slower than the OMAP in the TT. Like the OMAP, the HHE includes a DSP, this one optimized for MPEG video and 2D graphics. Also included on-chip is lots of high-speed frame buffer memory. If Sony opens up the API's, this might make for a very nice handheld gaming machine.

The 4.5 hours using wifi is excellent battery life. That's seems to be the beneficial trade-off one gets in return for a slower CPU and only 16 MB of RAM storage memory (but you also get 16 MB of program memory + 22 MB of built-in card memory + 16 MB of suspend/backup memory).

The UX50 is also thicker, and higher than the TT is wide, so I'd have to hold one before deciding whether this Sony small enough for a use as a pocketable handheld.

RE: Sucks!
rsc1000 @ 7/17/2003 3:21:32 PM #
>>Your Tungsten C doesn't play MPEG files. It plays Kinoma .pdb's, which definitely aren't MPEGs. Every Palm OS5 device can play these at framerates (far) exceeding 100fps.

I think you should check out mmplayer - they are at version 0.1.7 and already support divx/mpeg native:

www.mmplayer.com

...they have a lot to work out yet - this is beta and their are bugs. But they have improved stability and performance tremendously since they fitrst added video (in 0.1.1 ithink) and they plan on focusing on bug fixes between now and 1.0. Download the t3 trailor on their site and check it out - its pretty freakin good. It''l do over 25 frames per sec - native divx - in 320x320.

RE: Sucks!
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 5:48:43 PM #
Some troll with a dumb screen name drooled: "Mikecane: Wasn't it you who INSISTED that this new Clie COULDN'T POSSIBLY have a landscape screen layout???"

-- yes, that was me. Did you bother to go back to the *original thread*, you ****head?

RE: Sucks!
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:19:19 PM #
Since some people here obviously have attention difficulties, I'll not only provide the URL, but the POST too!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=5639

CROW IS BEING SERVED!!!
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 8:29:29 AM

Dammit, you beat me to the post!

It's a TRUE LANDSCAPE SCREEN!!

I will have a VERY LARGE helping of crow, thank you very much. Can I have mustard or even -- fittingly! -- some soy sauce on mine!!

I've not yet dug into the specs, but right off the bat this looks like something that would prevent me from buying a Pocket PC. I hope this sentiment holds as I read more about it.



RE: Sucks!
JKingGrim @ 7/17/2003 10:39:35 PM #
On the other hand, since they used Palm OS5.2 you'll write on the screen so no VG area will be needed

Bah. It sucks.


Your Tungsten C doesn't play MPEG files. It plays Kinoma .pdb's, which definitely aren't MPEGs. Every Palm OS5 device can play these at framerates (far) exceeding 100fps.

Doesn't MMplayer work on T|c? BeTrue, try it on you T|c (if you have a memory card), and tell us the frame rate.

RE: Sucks!
Be_True @ 7/18/2003 11:15:05 AM #
"Doesn't MMplayer work on T|c?
BeTrue, try it on you T|c
(if you have a memory card),
and tell us the frame rate."

IF I have memory card? The T|C only comes with 64M.
You think I could put up with that?
I've got a 256M card that is already full!

MMplayer's site claims:
"Users with T|C and overclocked Clies
can probably enjoy 320x240 in ~25 FPS."

I couldn't get it to give me an actual frame rate, but when it played a 160x120 DivX .avi without the audio sync, it looked to me to be over 75. (guessing)

(I love my 400Mhz Tungsten C)

[All measurements are non-calibrated,
for reference only :) ]

-Chris

mmplayer won't work on OS5 Clies
73939133 @ 7/19/2003 3:48:46 AM #
Sony hasn't published the audio APIs, so there are no third party audio players for OS5 Clies at all. This device looks even more proprietary because of its reliance on a DSP.

Poll: Will YOU buy it?

mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:19:31 AM #
Ad-hoc poll. Tell us if you'll buy it and why. Same for why not.

I'll go first: I don't know. I want portrait mode, dammit!

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
edyaw @ 7/17/2003 11:26:41 AM #
Timing is everything. While I wait impatiently for the Garmin iQue, I may funnel the bucks into the clie instead. I have a clie nr70v and love it. Well, it can't play dvd's but that's okay.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
Kaitou @ 7/17/2003 11:33:41 AM #
I won't, I am perfetcly happy with my NX80.
Would I buy it if I didn't have the NX80 already?
Probably not.
It's a good model, and I like the design, but it's not what I need. I like the dual expansion on the 80, the nicer camera and the clamshell (portrait) design.
But I am sure the UX will do rather well, if poprerly priced.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
robrecht @ 7/17/2003 11:39:09 AM #
I may buy it. I'd like a full size XT keyboard option. Don't think I need portrait, do I? What's the big deal about portrait? Anyway, don't know for sure until I get some hands-on use. May also get the Garmin for the Honda Pilot. Would also like to get a look at the TapWave thing.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
reigndub @ 7/17/2003 11:51:50 AM #
Well this UX50 is just NX70 with big keyboard, landscape screen and dual wireless.

It really doesn't offers new killer functionality beside minor convinience. For eg. it could have been equiped with cool presentation software of video server so you can broadcast mp3/video. Other dual wireless handheld can do this why can't UX50?

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:56:28 AM #
>>>What's the big deal about portrait?

I can't believe you said that. Shall we go back to the days of mono PDAs and "What's the big deal about color?"

And reigndub is so *obviously* ska. He never learns. GO AWAY!

Cost
epall @ 7/17/2003 12:01:09 PM #
It depends on the price. I've been holding off buying an new device until next summer. I bought my T665C back in December. If this unit is < $700 it will be attractive. Let's hope it not another prototype like the NZ.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
mashoutposse @ 7/17/2003 12:07:56 PM #
The UX is also a great deal smaller than the NX80.

I'm going to buy it; I like the built-in WiFi.

On another note, I think this device proves that there will always be people who complain about Sony's efforts... They've given you:

-closed Tungsten T-sized PDA
-Landscape screen layout
-Landscape keyboard layout (meaning larger, more comfortable buttons)
-Built-in dual wireless

...yet we still have people complaining about one thing or another. It may not be perfect, but it certainly sounds more 'perfect' than anything else on the market.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
robrecht @ 7/17/2003 12:10:46 PM #
"I can't believe you said that. Shall we go back to the days of mono PDAs and 'What's the big deal about color?'"

No, I like color, but I was just curious about why I need portrait? Digital cameras are default landscape. Websites, word processing, spreadsheets, and most everything else I can think of are all better in landscape on a small screen. Well, maybe daily calander view, address view, and To-Do lists are better in portrait view. OK, I want portrait, too. But if I have to choose, and I know I shouldn't have to, landscape is better for me than portrait.

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
abosco @ 7/17/2003 12:13:14 PM #
Will I buy it? Hell no! This thing once again represents everything I hate about Sony, plus they made it UGLY!! I thought Sony was good on design, but this thing is pitiful. Plus, there is still only 16 MB available. Sony must be drunk, stoned, stupid, or all three. Is their R&D spent at brothels or something?

Put in 64 MB, a normal freakin' 400 MHz X-Scale, make the body look good, put in a better camera, a CF slot, and put it at $700. These requests are very reasonable. And what about a TG50 with VG? This is by far the most requested device I've ever seen.

Note for ska - NetFront 3.0 v1.1.46 supposedly supports streaming video

-Bosco

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
rened @ 7/17/2003 12:45:03 PM #
Hires+ and build-in wifi: it's more likely i buy this one than any other pda at the moment.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
painted_dog @ 7/17/2003 12:55:24 PM #
... DROOL...

I love this device ! I'm going to wait out front of Best Buy until i get one. ... ok well maybe not. But i do love the new sony, its almost perfect ! i only wish instead of 802.11b it also accomadated g. & it had a second port [MS or CF][just a second something!] Blue backlighting instead of orange, blue backlights look so much cooler ! [hopefully on the US version right? ;-)] & i would love it would come w/ the originally graffiti ! [GF2 sucks ! (IMHO)] & if the camera had flash, i'd be set ! [... it'd be the swiss army knife of the new workforce ! now i they only had it in anodized red w/ a white or natural magnesium cross in the center ! ]

the only thing holding me back [aside from sony releasing an even better version just after i buy this (note i recently aquired a T|T) is the Tapwave... i think they may really have the implenation down... & depending on the price.. I could be a very happy Tapwave owner [BTW, i keep wanting to write tupperware instead of Tapwave, anyone else w/ that problem? ;-) ][no offense to the guys @ tapwave, keep it up i'm eageryly awaiting the Helix]

-painted dog

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
Foo Fighter @ 7/17/2003 1:02:49 PM #
Depends on pricing. If this lists for $399 I'll buy it in a heartbeat. Anything above that and I won't touch it. PDAs are such a commodity that no handheld is worth more than 4 Ben Franklins anymore. As cool as this device is, I'd rather save the extra cash and go with the TT2. We'll see on Friday.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
jamesgood72 @ 7/17/2003 1:05:18 PM #
Yup, I'd buy this... Can't really think of much wrong with it. Higher-res camera would have been nice. Remote control for the MP3 player.

I'd like to see how well they've got PalmOS to work with the 480x320 display. I guess at first everything will have to run in 320x320 windows on it, until Sony release the API and programmers release new versions of their software. I doubt that the existing API will allow the new modes. Anyone know anything about that?

-James.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
robrecht @ 7/17/2003 1:29:13 PM #
"i think they may really have the implenation down... & depending on the price.. I could be a very happy Tapwave owner"

According to Brighthand
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q2E725D45
the Tapwaves may be rather economical--$200 and $300 for built-in camera. I'd actually be more optimistic about their device, and it's implementation of business software (I know it's primarily a gamer's toy) if higher prices were being quoted.

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
splat @ 7/17/2003 3:10:22 PM #
I've got three words for you abosco:

"Buy a laptop"

Will I buy this? Yes. Why? Because it's the best PDA for me at this time. It's not for everyone, but I think it addresses some needs in Sony's Clie line.

I currently own an NX70V. Before that I had a NV70, and before that it was the N760C. Sony just keeps putting out something better, and I keep buying in.

I love my NX, but it's missing vital options. 1) Bluetooth: I have a Bluetooth phone and Bluetooth for my PC, why not utilize the large screen on my Clie for email/web browsing/AIM? 2) Keyboard usability: Don't get me wrong, the NX keyboard was a great touch for a PDA, but it's really hard to use even with my small fingers. The UX50 keyboard reminds me more of the Danger Hiptop keyboard, which I like. 3) Landscape Mode: Great idea by Sony, something we should've seen a while ago. I do hope for a portrait mode as well though, I'd like the option. Maybe it's just because we're all so used to portrait mode that we're not happy about abandoning it completely for landscape. 4) Size and Weight: My NX is a bit bulky, but I deal with it because of the large screen and the camera/CF slot. The UX50 is smaller, lighter, and has Bluetooth/Wireless built in.

I wish the CF slot stayed, but I understand that there isn't much room for it with all the other stuff packed in. At least we won't need to worry about swapping out a CF wireless card or a Bluetooth Memory Stick anymore.

So now I await the US arrival so that I can once again sell my current Clie for the bigger, better model. Luckily this time, it'll be the smaller, better model.

-----------
splat
splat@altavista.net

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
vcleniuk @ 7/17/2003 3:21:28 PM #
Probably yes, depending on price. I've been waiting for a Clie with built-in BT and WiFi. I'm disappointed with no portrait mode, no camera flash/light, and most importantly no dual expansion slot.

Maybe some corp. could make an MS camera flash or video light.

Also, didn't I read sometime back that Sony was planning on putting USB ports on their handhelds? Where's that now?


RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
phaedrus @ 7/17/2003 4:02:07 PM #
Have to admit it's sexy, but just wouldn't work for me. Too big, too heavy. A PDA doesn't have value for me if I can't count on having it on my body 100% of the time I'm awake, and this thing would tempt me to put it down rather than stuff it back into my shirt pocket.

When are we going to see an upgraded T form factor Clie? OS5, faster CPU, BlueTooth, thin, light?

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
RSC @ 7/17/2003 4:43:36 PM #
>I'll go first: I don't know. I want portrait mode, dammit!

I agree portrait mode would be great, but I'm a little worried about the ergonomics. Doesn't this look a bit too wide to hold and operate comfortably 1-handed (esp. given the jog dial is no longer easily accessible in this orientation)?

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
maddie @ 7/17/2003 5:26:43 PM #

See pictures of the thing in this link. Really good pictures they compare it with NX series the size nice, but I still will not buy it

http://www.clieclub.jp/review/rev_ux50/index.html


RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 5:54:00 PM #
Great photo link! Thanks.

>>> Also, didn't I read sometime back that Sony was planning on putting USB ports on their handhelds? Where's that now?

-- there's a USB port there! On the left side, between the Hold switch and IR port. NO "Sony Universal Connector" for HotSyncing, so that USB port is it!

Someone mentioned it's probably too wide to hold confortably in portrait orientation. Maybe. But there's that fat hinge to grip! Let me worry about holding it -- Sony should provide portrait orientation.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
AzureGuy @ 7/17/2003 6:49:53 PM #
IT IS OFFICIAL, BYE BYE PALM FOR ME, HELLOOOOO SONY!!!!

This is PERFECT. I nearly bought a laptop that had built in Wi-Fi last week, and it looks like my decision to not get it was a good one :) I love the design, it's small, it's geek and it'll make one of my co-workers jealous LOL....

It's got all that I wanted, the large screen (I believe that someone, if not sony will make the unit have the ability to go portrait mode). 32 MB of RAM (yes only 16 is available, but that's better than my Tungsten). It's got Wi-Fi AND Bluetooth (woo hoo, don't have to get rid of my BT gear :) Built-in Keyboard that is backlit....

My only complaint is that the Graffitti shows up on the right hand side of the screen...

------
BLUE PUNCH BUGGY!!!!!

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
Timothy Rapson @ 7/17/2003 9:02:07 PM #
Not me.

No more Sony until they pay me back everthing I paid for my NR, which they said would have 1 gig memory sticks available.

Lies. Lies. Lies. Shame for Sony.

Anyway, 16 meg? A VGA camera on a $700 PDA? A 3.2 inch screen? Even if I wanted one, I wouldn't want one.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 9:02:35 PM #
abosco fizzed:

"Put in 64 MB, a normal freakin' 400 MHz X-Scale, make the body look good,..."

The 22MB for multimedia files is pretty neat.

The Handheld Engine seems to be better at using juice than a "normal freakin' 400 MHz X-Scale."

I like the design.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
strider @ 7/17/2003 9:16:18 PM #
Yes I would buy it. 7 hour battery life ( great for reading ebooks). 480x320 res (say no more) small form factor and clam shell design so the screen is protected and I do not need to buy a $100 hard case to protect the screen. My only qu is what is the loop in the metal body for in the bottom left hand corner


RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
abosco @ 7/17/2003 9:43:02 PM #
Cane babbled:

"The 22MB for multimedia files is pretty neat"

So is a large Memory Stick, or better yet, DUAL SLOTS!

You're actually considering buying this? Did you like HPC's too? I mean, the idea sounds cool, but it's too expensive and has too many drawbacks.

Jeez, I thought spending $600 for something with 200 MHz and 16 MB was stupid. You're considering it for $700. Yeesh...

Snap out of it! Don't you hate the chicken neck flip and rotate of the NX series? How is this different? So many contradictions, so little time...

-Bosco

No.
orb2069 @ 7/18/2003 1:33:15 AM #
- Still slowslowslowsloooow memory stick. If I'm farming half the programs and 3/4 of the content to removable media, I don't want to sit around waiting for it to load.

- No modem, no reasonable option to attach one. Do I *have* to buy a $x00 bluetooth enabled celphone or WAP to get some form of away-from-home connectivity?

- Looks way too fragile, like most of the twist-neck clie.... But then, they're only supposed to last until the next model comes out, right?

- No use for the keyboard: Hate thumb keyboards, too small to use for actual typing.

Does 'CLIE' actually stand for 'Crap Loaded In Excessively'?

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 8:55:03 AM #
Maybe I've been away too long...

... but doesn't this also use MStick Pro? And doesn't MSP have a speedier xfer rate? So why the crabbing about MStick then?

absoco: I can't tell what I'll do until I see it and lick with my own tongue and sniff it with my own nose. I ignored the NXes 73 & 80 ... until I saw that Batman Black 73. The pain...

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
abosco @ 7/18/2003 9:16:15 AM #
"- Still slowslowslowsloooow memory stick. If I'm farming half the programs and 3/4 of the content to removable media, I don't want to sit around waiting for it to load.
- No modem, no reasonable option to attach one. Do I *have* to buy a $x00 bluetooth enabled celphone or WAP to get some form of away-from-home connectivity?
- Looks way too fragile, like most of the twist-neck clie.... But then, they're only supposed to last until the next model comes out, right?"

Palm should be renamed to OCAT, Our Customers Are Trolls. Why such hatred to what Sony does? I only remember hearing problems with the twist on the old NR model. And MSPro has speeds as fast as CF. I'm sure a USB modem can be made for this model. You can find a T68i with AT&T service FREE with activation, which is as little as $20/mo. This also has Wifi. It sure beats the hell out of a landline modem.

CLIE is Communications Link to Information Entertainment. Sony brings much of the innovation that's incorporated into the Palm OS whether you like it or not.

-Bosco

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
maddie @ 7/18/2003 9:24:13 AM #
some more pictures with actual specs and dimentions. Some people will change their minds, I still won't buy, its hidious

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=1492&showComments=true

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:50:48 AM #
absoco, after his meds kicked in, drooled:

"Why such hatred to what Sony does?"

-- when you've reached baseline again, please read some of your own messages posted yesterday. Or was that the Other One In You. Sybil, perhaps?

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
orb2069 @ 7/18/2003 11:28:52 AM #
Palm should be renamed to OCAT, Our Customers Are Trolls.

Funny, the last Palm hardware I bought was a PPPersonal. If you're going to stoop to ad hominem attacks, you could at least spend the five seconds looking at user profiles to make them accurate.

Why such hatred to what Sony does?

It's (By-and-large) poorly-designed, incompatible, gadget-filled propriatary garbage that reads like it was spec'd by a FHM focus group?

Oh, no, wait... It's because we're Out To Get You And Badmouth Poor Little SONY.

I only remember hearing problems with the twist on the old NR model.

Notice I didn't claim that there were actual problems - I just claimed that it looked fragile, and therefore would not buy it - That's MY reason.

And MSPro has speeds as fast as CF.

I haven't had an opportunity to benchmark 'MS Pro', and googling 'VFSMark "MemoryStick/Pro" in various permutations isn't turning up anything of value. Comparing the theoretical numbers without comparing actual implementations is pointless.

I'm sure a USB modem can be made for this model.

Sony's habit of bitch-slapping their customers with eternally changing connectors is ANOTHER reason I'll never buy something from them, but hey - If you like it, more power to you.

You can find a T68i with AT&T service FREE with activation, which is as little as $20/mo.

...For a one year minimum contract? - $240(But probably longer) What's so 'free' about that? I use a modem MAYBE six times a year. $240 seems kind of steep - Not to mention that celphone reception in motel rooms and buildings can be iffy (Who wants to go stand out in the rain to check their email?)

This also has Wifi. It sure beats the hell out of a landline modem.

...Anywhere there's a WiFi point, which in case you live someplace other than California or New York means you can use it at home, and maybe three other places in a 20mi radius - As opposed to a POTS modem, which you can use with an $8/mo account over 95% of the country.

Or are you seriously suggesting I pack along a dial-up capable WAP?

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
Be_True @ 7/18/2003 11:40:53 AM #
300Mhz - not to bad, could be better for $700
16+22+16 MB memory - memory is cheap, why not 64M?
memory stick(pro?) - SD or CF-->access to more devices

Overall, not to bad, shows some promise for the future, but for now, I'll stick to my Tungsten C.

-Chris

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
73939133 @ 7/19/2003 3:52:10 AM #
- No modem, no reasonable option to attach one. Do I *have* to buy a $x00 bluetooth enabled celphone or WAP to get some form of away-from-home connectivity

You can get BT modems that plug into regular phone lines. They are a lot more convenient than those wired CF dongle type thingies that people plug into PDAs.

Of course, why you would want to mess with a modem if you can get cheap anywhere connectivity with a BT cellphone is hard to understand. But to each their own.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
73939133 @ 7/19/2003 3:54:59 AM #
I haven't had an opportunity to benchmark 'MS Pro', and googling 'VFSMark "MemoryStick/Pro" in various permutations isn't turning up anything of value. Comparing the theoretical numbers without comparing actual implementations is pointless.

Well, MSPro manages to do real-time video recording, while CF can't. I don't know what that means for the Clie, but it suggests that the MSPro really is designed to go faster than CF.

Don't get me wrong: I don't like MSPro--it's way too expensive and they are behind in terms of capacity. But they are doing well in terms of speed. Also, mechanically, the MS design is a little better than CF in my opinion.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
robrecht @ 7/19/2003 9:14:01 AM #
Hasn't SONY already said that the UX models will not support the higher theoretical speeds promised for MS PRO? I think users say the MS PROs (on new Clies) are somewhat faster than the old Memory Sticks but nowhere near the promised speeds. Anyway, don't get me started again on SONY's misprepresentations regarding the original Memory Stick.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
orb2069 @ 7/19/2003 1:17:22 PM #
Well, MSPro manages to do real-time video recording, while CF can't.

I was wondering about this, so I dropped a 64mb CF card into my desktop reader, and dumped an MPG file I had lying around to it:

File:
8964480 Jul 12 13:15 Graffitiwriter.mpg
Playing the video file in xine takes just over 3min,40sec. [ time $(xine -pq Graffiti*) ]

Command:
time $(cp Graffitiwriter.mpg /mnt/cf ; umount /mnt/cf)
Results:
real 0m15.136s
user 0m0.020s
sys 0m0.720s
[Just under 16 seconds for the file to transfer and the OS to unmount the CF]

Given that my CF reader is on a USB 1.0 bus, and I'm using a P300 to push the bits, I think that the idea that CF can't do the performance for video dosen't have a lot of merit.

Doing video to flash media seems more like a good way to sell memory than a good way to do recording.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
orb2069 @ 7/19/2003 1:46:26 PM #
Of course, why you would want to mess with a modem if you can get cheap anywhere connectivity with a BT cellphone is hard to understand. But to each their own.

Your definition of 'cheap' and mine must be different, then - Dial-up comes in at ($8/12,000min(200hrs/month))=$.000666_/min) and Celphone time is ($30/200min/month)=$.04/min) - Or almost 60 times more expensive. That's assuming you get the celphone for free AND all your minutes can be used for data, AND you aren't actually calling anybody on the thing AND none of your data calls are out-of-network. - All (to varying degrees) assumptions in your favor.

Celphones are convenient, yeah, but cheap? Hardly.

RE: Poll: Will YOU buy it?
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 9:53:38 AM #

Not what I meant...

mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:24:13 AM #
Alas! Perhaps 2004?

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4641

6) Sony Kills Tablet PC
Sony gives Gates and Ballmer chronic indigestion by introducing the first "Tablet CLIE." It will be a one-piece mini-tablet just about the size of a mass-market paperback book with a 600x800 (if not higher) screen. Selling for just $899, people will look at it, look at Tablet PC priced at $2,000-$2,500 -- and Sony will sell jillions. This device will also drive ebook sales to unprecedented heights.

RE: Not what I meant...
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:40:04 AM #
And then there's this...

"China's TDV Vison plans to market a tablet PC in Europe, North America and China for $900 in September. Hewlett-Packard, meanwhile, is set to start selling its own tablet to consumers through retail in a pilot program. To date, HP has targeted its tablet at corporate customers."

http://news.com.com/2102-1044_3-1026304.html?tag=ni_print

http://tinyurl.com/h8cp


RE: Not what I meant...
rsc1000 @ 7/17/2003 3:28:40 PM #
You are bang on about this idea. If sony doesn't do this - somebody really should. The 1st wave of MS based tablet PCs show that Windows is just too much to build a reasonable tablet on (too much hardware requirement mean too high a price and way too large/heavy of a device). Palm OS would give such a device a huge leap over MS. Why the hell isnt this being done? Think about it - if the device was as large as you are suggesting - a paperback sized device with 600x800 - it could be as thin as a Palm Vx and still have plenty of room for everything. Its a killer market opportunity waiting to happen. Such a devie - along with ones like this new sony - would actually be a turning of the table for Palm - a counter attack on MS's own turf! It would make for exciting PDA news reading in any event....

Battery life?

JonAcheson @ 7/17/2003 11:18:19 AM #
I don't see a whole lot of space in there for a decent battery, and with both wireless and bluetooth, it doesn't sound good.

Battery life was one of the serious problems with Sharp's Zaurus 700 series, which this imitates.

Also, no d-pad, and a camera, which for some people makes the device a non-starter (can't take it into work). They could have put the D-pad on the screen half of the PDA near the hinge.

Still, that keyboard looks very promising. It could be a huge improvement over the current crop of Sony thumbboards.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Battery life?
Altema @ 7/17/2003 12:42:11 PM #
They also may have rated the battery life with the screen off, in addition to BT and wi-fi turned off as well. It would be interesting to see how it does with the backlight on a normal setting with a wi-fi ping test. Wonder if the it comes out of the box with the BT radio turned on with all options like the T|T. Guess that makes it easier for newbies, but a lot of them don't use the radio and it sits there sucking battery even while the Palm is turned off. The BT radio stays on 24x7 listening for signals if the "allow wakeup" option remains checked as it comes from the factory.

RE: Battery life?
Altema @ 7/17/2003 12:48:59 PM #
Correction, I meant to say with the screen backlight off (or minimum depending on the screen).

RE: Battery life?
lak @ 7/17/2003 1:01:22 PM #
Battery life ratings:
14days normal use

WiFi use:
2.5 hours continuously with BackLight at Max
4.5 hours continuously with BackLight at Min

Music playing:
16 hours
35 hours with external batteries attachment

RE: Battery life?
Altema @ 7/17/2003 7:05:50 PM #
Thanks for the info, that's actually pretty good.

Memory

Lucky Bob @ 7/17/2003 11:28:04 AM #
According to Brighthand, 16 MB of RAM available to the user. It will have 22 MB of storage that will act as an internal Memory Stick, so it can be used for MPEGs, JPEGs, MP3, and other files that can't go in RAM. 16 MB of space will also be used to back up the contents of RAM. If its battery is getting dangerously low, its RAM will automatically be backed up, preventing the contents from being lost.



(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)

RE: Memory
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:33:07 AM #
And according to infosync:

"In addition to the new design, Sony is including most of their familiar extras, including an integrated 0,3 megapixel digital camera, MP3 playback, video playback software and more. Not surprisingly, the PEG-UX50 is powered by Palm OS 5.2 on an all-new ARM926-based CXD2230GA processor. The CXD2230GA appears to have been developed by Sony exclusively for mobile devices, and includes an on-board DSP and 8 MB of RAM on-chip. That lets the handheld play MPEG video at up to 30 frames per second, faster than almost any other handheld in existance. The device includes 32 MB of system RAM, of which only 16 MB is available to the user. The included applications, of which there are many, are stored in 22 MB of ROM."

Only 16mb Useable RA?!?!?!

DWD @ 7/17/2003 11:27:53 AM #
The article says, "It has 32mb of RAM, with 16mb available for use." This is just silly.

RE: Only 16mb Useable RA?!?!?!
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:33:50 AM #
That's what the new NX80 offers too: about 1/2 the 32MB RAM is reserved for system heap for Netfront WiFi use.

RE: Only 16mb Useable RA?!?!?!
cykalan @ 7/17/2003 11:47:57 AM #
obviously they got some problem with the translation here, the original press release is saying:

104Mb of RAM, in which 16Mb is user-accessible, and another 22Mb which can be used as multimedia storage

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

RE: Only 16mb Useable RA?!?!?!
mashoutposse @ 7/17/2003 12:52:18 PM #
The UX50 has three separate user-accessible memory banks:

1) General purpose - 16MB
2) For MPEGs, JPEGs, mp3s, and all other files that cannot normally be stored in RAM - 22MB
3) For automatic backup of main general purpose RAM - 16MB

The rest is used for built in software and dynamic heap space. NO MORE 'PAGE TOO LARGE' ERRORS IN NETFRONT :D

RE: Only 16mb Useable RA?!?!?!
ray00pal @ 7/17/2003 8:56:38 PM #
May I ask what is the ****ING point of backing up one RAM to another RAM? So you can lost more copies of data?

RE: Only 16mb Useable RA?!?!?!
helf @ 7/17/2003 9:08:30 PM #
obviously that RAM doesnt need power to keep its memory. so its more like rom i guess....

RE: Only 16mb Useable RAM?
hotpaw4 @ 7/17/2003 11:09:57 PM #
someone impolitely asked about the:
> point of backing up one RAM to another RAM?

Storage memory is in DRAM, which sucks power even when the unit seems to be off (for refresh) and loses data when the battery voltage drops sufficiently. The backup memory is in flash RAM, which requires no battery power and thus retains data for years even if the battery goes dead.

16 MB of storage memory should be plenty for non-obsolete applications, since you can use multiple 128 MB memory sticks for more storage, and memory cards don't eat into your battery life.

Nice UX50 pics

Tungsten @ 7/17/2003 11:31:52 AM #
Scroll down,
http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/article/news_toppage/14886.html

RE: Nice UX50 pics
Tungsten @ 7/17/2003 11:39:17 AM #

Sony's answer to Sharp Zaurus

cake @ 7/17/2003 11:32:41 AM #
Check the Zaurus SL-C760 out (this unit is not widely available in U.S.)

http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus7xx/index.shtml

I think this new Clie price will be probably the same as the Zaurus.

RE: Sony's answer to Sharp Zaurus
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:35:27 AM #
See pics here:

http://palmoslove.com/work/feature/news20030717.html

-- the Z is clearly larger than this CLUX. The CLUX is tiny!

RE: Sony's answer to Sharp Zaurus
ganoe @ 7/17/2003 2:50:55 PM #
The Zaurus has a 640x480 screen and supports portrait mode. The screen and the keyboard on the Zaurus also appear to be bigger, plus it has CF and SD slots.

The Clie has built-in WiFi and Bluetooth.

RE: Sony's answer to Sharp Zaurus
rsc1000 @ 7/17/2003 3:42:57 PM #
I like the Zaurus design, keyboard, larger and higher-res screen better. I wish Sony had gone this route instead of getting funky with the design. Im not really complaining too much - but the Sony looks bulky and akward. They should at least take out that camera and trim the thing down a bit width-wise.

RE: Sony's answer to Sharp Zaurus
totalchaos @ 7/18/2003 9:53:43 PM #
The specs have the Z 17mm longer but 3.5mm narrower. They are both pretty thick, with the Z at .7mm thicker.

For the extra 17mm in length, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have the 640x480, CF and SD slots.

possible winner

awdr @ 7/17/2003 11:43:18 AM #
depends on:
battery life
price

minor con: no sd-card, well its a sony

however bluetooth and wlan in one device is great, PALM speed up, the TT2 will be outdated even on the day its released!

RE: possible winner
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 11:58:23 AM #
You know, isn't it unusual for Sony to schedule a PDA press release on a Friday?

I wonder if Monday will bring an announcement from Palm?

RE: possible winner
awdr @ 7/17/2003 12:30:25 PM #
Thats true. An updated Tungsten C with bluetooth and VG!

By the way the screen of the new sony physically looks rather small. Has someone the specs to compare it to other devices?

Here are the Mail Specs

gfunkmagic @ 7/17/2003 11:56:49 AM #
Here the main specs published by the following site:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y20452D45

The main specifications
Model name PEG-UX50
OS The Japanese version Palm OS 5 (Ver.5.2) (R)
CPU Sony Handheld Engine TM (CXD2230GA)
Memory A total of 104MB (domain main part which can be user used : about 16MB, built-in media : about 22MB)
Interface USB * Bluetooth (R), an infrared port, a "memory stick" slot,
Wireless LAN (IEEE802.11b)
Headphone stereo mini jack
* You can use in addition to connection with a personal computer.
LCD display Back light loading TFT color liquid crystal display
Display resolution / display color 480x320 dots / 65,536 color
Camera function The number of effective pixels: About 310,000 pixels
Photography element: 1 / 5.5 type progressive scan CMOS B element (the total number of pixels :) About 370,000 pixels
The number of the maximum record pixels: 640x480 dots of still pictures VGA, animation:160x112 dot
Audio function Frequency characteristic: 20Hz - 20,000Hz
Recording medium: Memory stick PRO and magic gate memory stick memory stick memory stick duet magic gate memory stick duet *1
Record system: ATRAC3 and an MP3 system
The maximum recording time *2 :
- ATRAC3 system About 120 minutes (bit rate 132kbps)
About 160 minutes (bit rate 105kbps), about 240 minutes (bit rate 66kbps)
- MP3 system About 50 minutes (bit rate 320kbps), about 65 minutes (bit rate 256kbps), about 130 minutes (bit rate 128kbps), about 170 minutes (bit rate 96kbps)
Wireless LAN function Conformity standard: 802.11b
Use frequency band: 2.4GHz belt (1-11ch, ISM band)
WEP(encryption of data): 64,128bit
Abnormal-conditions system: DS-SS (IEEE802.11b conformity)
Battery self-sustaining time (continuation communication) :
When it communicates by the about 2.5 hour * back light maximum
When it communicates by the about 4.5 hour * back light minimum
Bluetooth function Communication distance: About 10m of prospects
Power supply Lithium ion polymer charge pond (built-in)
Time which can be used Usually, between about 14 days of use *3
Outside size Abbreviation 103(W) x86.5(H) x17.9(D) mm (at the time of a closing style)
Mass About 175g (stylus ܂)


Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.

"When it communicates by the...."
JonAcheson @ 7/17/2003 12:29:01 PM #
Is this using wireless LAN or bluetooth? I'm guessing it's LAN.

Seems kind of short in any case.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: Here are the Mail Specs
rened @ 7/17/2003 12:41:08 PM #
both Wifi and Bluetooth :-)

RE: Here are the Specs
hotpaw4 @ 7/17/2003 10:10:43 PM #
> 103(W) x86.5(H) x17.9(D) mm

This is smaller than a Palm III in terms of volume (cubic inches/cc). The only spec where the Palm III was better is battery life (in the neighborhood of 18 hours versus 7 hours), and price $369 vs maybe $599 to $699 ?

RE: Here are the Mail Specs
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 8:58:05 AM #
The P3 was also a VERY mono PDA. (*sigh*, mine with a cracked screen rests unused... files trapped in ROM...)

It has a keychain holder

zampheer @ 7/17/2003 12:07:36 PM #
I can even put it on my keychain! I am so excited.
Probably more like a lanyard.
JonAcheson @ 7/17/2003 12:26:24 PM #
So that you can connect it to your belt in case it slips out of your hands. It's a nice touch.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."
RE: It has a keychain holder
orb2069 @ 7/18/2003 1:48:31 AM #
That's actually a really nice feature- I've often wondered why more PDA manuf's don't put some sort of lanyard attachment on their units.

Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!

madmaxmedia @ 7/17/2003 12:15:11 PM #
That's the only thing left out!

Battery life seems very good- 4.5 hours Wi-Fi on low backlight, and 14 days usage (which compares well with other Sony CLIE's).

I don't care about portrait mode, I care more about having landscape mode for documents and web stuff. It also has the Sony audio quality and a microphone, I don't care about the compact flash slot.

So how much will this puppy cost? My guess is $600


RE: Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!
robrecht @ 7/17/2003 12:22:02 PM #
$700

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!
achitnis @ 7/17/2003 12:26:07 PM #
My guess - $650-700.

This thing can't actually position itself as a PDA anymore (can't be operated with one hand, which means it fails *my* definition of a PDA), but it isn't a laptop either. No way Sony is going to make this its flagship Handheld - there will be others that truly qualify as PDAs - so it will have to price itself over the PDA market.

But then Sony has been known to pull a few surprises out of its hat....


Atul Chitnis
http://atulchitnis.net

RE: Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!
madmaxmedia @ 7/17/2003 12:33:42 PM #
Here is the price from the japanes website, I listed it in Yen and US Dollar:

69,800 Japanese Yen = 591.025 US Dollar

I guess they always cost more in US, so $700?

RE: Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!
rened @ 7/17/2003 12:43:20 PM #
Which makes 700+20% = 850 euro's

RE: Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!
hoodoo @ 7/17/2003 1:08:06 PM #
=999 CAD. OUCH.

RE: Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!
jamesgood72 @ 7/17/2003 1:14:59 PM #
Achitnis,

Why can't it be operated with one hand? Doesn't the screen flip over? If so, it can be operated in tablet mode, with grafiti input...

-James.

RE: Let's Guess the Most Important Spec- PRICE!!!
achitnis @ 7/19/2003 8:25:28 AM #
Would take a rather large hand to operate one handed.

http://www.brighthand.com/images/sony_peg_ux50.jpg

Notice that the width of the unit is actally far more than the width of the screen part - the hinges and other stuff stick out. I'd say it is about 20% wider than a Tungsten.

http://www.brighthand.com/images/Sony_UX50_3.gif

It is also quite fat (definitely fatter than the already fat Zire71), so add the two together, and I'd say you can't use it with one hand ;-)

As it turns out, I was right about the price too (as was most everyone else) ;-)


Atul Chitnis
http://atulchitnis.net

Retraction requested

fleegle @ 7/17/2003 12:41:22 PM #
OK. For those of you (Mike Cane, et. al) who insisted that this thing had a square screen, now is your chance to come clean and retract those statements. ;-)

This CLIE looks pretty nice, but I'm going to hang on to my HE330. I am looking for a device to replace it but nothing seems to meet, or beat, what the HE330 can give me. The Zire 71 almost had me. If only it (the Zire) had Virtual Graffiti. :-(

I do agree with those of you who think it should have a portrait mode.

LOL!
madmaxmedia @ 7/17/2003 12:50:15 PM #
EAT CROW MIKE CANE (in your own words...)

;)

-Steve

RE: Retraction requested
Foo Fighter @ 7/17/2003 2:23:16 PM #
I have a pair of old shoes to throw at Mike.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Retraction requested
rened @ 7/17/2003 2:36:13 PM #
I think Mike is quite glad about being wrong.

RE: Retraction requested
Foo Fighter @ 7/17/2003 3:17:53 PM #
Well...ahem...*some of us* said from the beginning it was landscape, not |SQUARE|

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Retraction requested
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:00:37 PM #
Oh, the poor chilllldren.

They can bleat but they cannot read! Too early for your dose of Ritalin?!

Go read:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5639

or, being the hyperactive wienies you are, when you get to that page, SEARCH for CROW. If postings had timestamps, you'd see I was here at 8AM EDST eating my crow.

Now go away and leave the adults alone.

RE: Retraction requested
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:21:31 PM #
Droool. Postings *do* have timestamps. Funny how I never noticed that before...

RE: Retraction requested
Foo Fighter @ 7/17/2003 6:26:18 PM #
Speaking of "childish" behavior, if I'm not mistaken you were calling everyone that believed the display to be landspace...MORONS...idiots...or some other such nonsense.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Retraction requested
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:54:10 PM #
Poor foo. So desperate in his backpedaling that he lashes out in psychotic fantasies again (like that posting on Brighthand... ahem!).

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=5639

Go read EVERY fekkin message I posted in that thread. Then come back for YOUR crow.

RE: Retraction requested
Foo Fighter @ 7/17/2003 7:16:29 PM #
What backpedaling? I never predicted this to be a square screen.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Retraction requested
bradleyboy @ 7/17/2003 7:17:01 PM #
I'll second that emotion, foo. Mike has the unfortunate tendency to verbally belittle those who don't share his theories. I observed this here, and also recently in the discussion about the alleged photos of the upcoming TT2. There's nothing wrong with having strongly held beliefs, but why is it necessary to heap nasty epithets on those who hold a contrary view? To his credit, Mike did admit that he was wrong. What's lacking, though, is an apology to everyone he called a moron. I won't hold my breath, though.

RE: Retraction requested
madmaxmedia @ 7/17/2003 7:29:51 PM #
We were joking! (at least I was)


RE: Retraction requested
AzureGuy @ 7/17/2003 7:49:49 PM #
Give it up guys....geez.... So he was wrong, it was a simple and meaningless mistake.

Why would you want to eat crow anyways.... Try something edible but gross... Under-cooked liver and onions... THAT'S BAAAD

------
BLUE PUNCH BUGGY!!!!!

RE: Retraction requested
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 8:23:10 PM #
>>>I won't hold my breath

Go ahead and disappoint me like that.

RE: Retraction requested
bradleyboy @ 7/18/2003 12:35:15 AM #
No, Azure, it's not a "simple and meaningless mistake". It's this way over and over: Mike invariably rips into people when they commit the cardinal sin of disagreeing with him. And he is typically the person who drags name-calling and nastiness into the picture. Why is this necessary? I have no idea. Instead, why not make this a place where people with similar interests come together in a spirit of respect. Sadly, though, this seems like a classic case of false internet bravery. People carry themselves online that I think they probably wouldn't do if they were face-to-face with those with whom they interact. Good thing, since Mike would probably have been handed his teeth by now.

RE: Retraction requested
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 8:59:35 AM #
Any of you can set up an apppointment to see me in person any time. Just make sure you *want* to do that.

RE: Retraction requested
bradleyboy @ 7/18/2003 11:05:54 AM #
Anytime you're in Chicago, Mike, let's meet for coffee, ok? I'm sure you're a genuinely decent, bright guy, and that the impression I get of you on here is skewed. I have my share of character flaws, too, and yours (being a bit of a know-it-all and verbally abrasive) aren't the worst in the world. So, your first latte (or beer) is on me. Until then, let's just all try to be decent to eachother.

RE: Retraction requested
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:56:07 PM #
I detest Chicago. Been there three times. Each time I wished for Mrs. O'Leary's cow.

When you're in NYC, let's, uh, chat.

RE: Retraction requested
bradleyboy @ 7/21/2003 11:53:39 AM #
LOL! Mike, you take the cake. You turn a peace offering into an occasion to flame (and wish flames on) my home town! To each his own. Sorry you didn't enjoy your stay, though. I'm in Manhattan now and again, so I'll let you know.

RE: Retraction requested
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 7:20:11 PM #
Look, I hate Chicago and that's all there is to it.

What about Games?!

yOyOYoo @ 7/17/2003 1:25:51 PM #
Well it looks like sony has made playing games on their new clie near impossible. There are now only 3 hardkeys (the forth one is a back button) And there is no up down button, only a jog dial type scroll wheel.

It seems sony doesn't feel that gaming should be necessary on this clie =(

correct me if i'm wrong here, but it looks like we can only play "stylus" type games on this baby. Unless we could somehow attach our GC10 game controllers...

RE: What about Games?!
MobileMitch @ 7/17/2003 1:39:03 PM #
First, I don't think they aimed this one toward game players.

Second, Some smart young programmer will figure out a way to remap the keyboard buttons to do your gaming controls just like on your keyboard at home.

You can already remap hard keys-
madmaxmedia @ 7/17/2003 2:08:35 PM #
On the TG50, I can remap the keyboard to do lots of stuff. So I think remapping for games is no problem, you can remap to launch apps (same as pressing those launcher buttons).

RE: What about Games?!
JonAcheson @ 7/17/2003 3:41:29 PM #
I would have liked to have seen a D-pad where the camera is and either another d-pad on the right, or a pair of fire buttons. That way you could keep a grip on it, and still game.

You lose the camera, but I don't really care about the camera.

And, if it still uses Sony's sound APIs, games are fubared anyway.

"All opinions posted are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled."

RE: What about Games?!
carioca76 @ 7/17/2003 7:16:45 PM #
My 615 reads personal entertainment organizer. I always got a laugh out of that title. Everyone else refers to them as personal data assistants or something more business related. Sony is entertainment, games are entertaining. But then so are movies, music, internet, ...
Guess there are many clies out there, choose the one that suits you. The other companies provide one every few months & hope you like it. Sony says here are 8 new ones, pick one.
I like this one, curious how much text can be displayed with grafitti on though.

RE: What about Games?!
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 8:24:21 PM #
>>>curious how much text can be displayed with grafitti on though

It'll be 320 across. So what you see now on a 320x320 screen is what you'll get on this. Until programs are updated for landscape (don't hold your breath).

RE: What about Games?!
JKingGrim @ 7/17/2003 11:00:38 PM #
First, I don't think they aimed this one toward game players.

That doesn't matter. It is even more crippled than the Zire.


Second, Some smart young programmer will figure out a way to remap the keyboard buttons to do your gaming controls just like on your keyboard at home.

I would not bust my hump trying to get SONY's APIs just to support one device.


Remappings, reprogrammings, and work arrounds aside, it is very poor of SONY to not have all the buttons. Perhaps the ommision of one of the app buttons would be OK, but the up-down rocker is terrible. And don't argue that the jog dial replaces it, because the jog dial does not function exactly like th rocker. In my opinion, the quality of SONY products is degrading.

RE: What about Games?!
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 3:14:47 AM #
The keyboard has 4 cursor keys.

OpenGL?

palmcoder @ 7/17/2003 2:12:46 PM #
at the bottom of this page

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0717/sony2.htm

OpenGL is mentioned several times. From the screenshot, it looks like the application launcher is using a 3D interface.

I wonder if this device ships with a Palm OS port of OpenGL and, if so, does it have limited 3D acceleration capabilities?

RE: OpenGL?
doctor__no @ 7/17/2003 3:15:14 PM #
Yes, Sony's new "Handheld" CPU can do 3D graphics, and supports OpenGL. A lot of the interface such as the laucher and mail box will will be in 3D.

As far as the Sony "Handheld" CPU goes it is a 0.18μm 128-bit ARM-based CPU with 8MB of cache. The cache size is interesting because most desktop CPUs don't have that much cache, I don't see why a PDA will need that much cache memory (it has a 7.86GB/s bus). The clockspeed will fluctuate between 8-123Mhz depending on how much processor speed is required, this will allow the machine to conserve energy though efficeny. Also worth noting is that the the machine will have a DSP and a "2D graphics engine" built in.

Also worth noting is

It's also noting that

RE: OpenGL?
hotpaw4 @ 7/17/2003 3:47:00 PM #
someone wrote:
>I don't see why a PDA will need that much cache memory

The HHE has that much on-chip memory because external DRAM eats a lot more battery power. 4.5 hours with wifi on is better battery life than the TT with its Bluetooth off (both at min-backlight on).

RE: OpenGL?
rsc1000 @ 7/17/2003 3:51:35 PM #
Ahhh - the future versions of PalmOS will include a 3D engine/API based on open GL. The latest edition of PalmSource Developer News includes a PalmSuurce job opening/listing for the job of 'Graphics Engineer' and mentions all about 3D openGL framwork. Check out this web version of the newsletter and scroll down to the job section:

http://www.palmsource.com/developers/newsletter/20030715.html#jobs

Sounds like cool things are in the works. I submitted this to PalmInfoCenter as a story lastnight but they haven't posted anything - yet.


RE: OpenGL?
Lidocaineus @ 7/17/2003 7:40:36 PM #
The HHE has that much on-chip memory because external DRAM eats a lot more battery power. 4.5 hours with wifi on is better battery life than the TT with its Bluetooth off (both at min-backlight on).




Wait, am I reading this incorrectly? Are you saying the TT with BT off has less than 4.5 hours of battery life? I have to be reading that wrong.
Look at this video.
Akai @ 7/17/2003 7:50:33 PM #
http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2003/07/17/13v1.wmv

You can see the Handheld Engine's 3d performance.

battery life
hotpaw4 @ 7/17/2003 10:02:48 PM #
someone wrote:
> Are you saying the TT with BT off has less than 4.5 hours of battery life?

My TT, with BT off and the backlight on minumum, gave me right around 4 continuous hours of battery life before the low voltage warning. This TT also got 6 hours with the both BT and backlight off; but the UX50 looks like it's spec'd for 7 hours with wifi and backlight off.

So the battery life *specifications* of this Clie are better than my TT. But, as with any mileage estimates, YMMV.

Playstation / OpenGL ?? 123Mhz?

HandyMan @ 7/17/2003 2:47:34 PM #
I don't read Japanese, so maybe somebody can elaberate on the bits text I do recognize on this page:

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0717/sony2.htm


What's the reference to OpenGL and Playstation all about? Also, it seems to suggest the CPU can go from 8 to 123Mhz.... or does that mean something else?


RE: Playstation / OpenGL ?? 123Mhz?
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:08:24 PM #
babelfish sez:

"It expands the 3d function of Open GL correspondence individually. It was loaded it has utilized newly with the " CLIE 3d Launcher ". The Open GL corresponding hardware because it is not on-board, " is not the case that it can express the fine 3d like the PlayStation ", (the SONY authorized personnel), with one circumstance of using high-level 3d expression it becomes possible as a PDA. The schedule which sooner or later it tries to be able to release the SDK, to be able to utilize Open GL from various applications."

-- in other words, although it can do 3D graphics via OpenGL, the fineness of the 3D will not be on par with that of a PlayStation's 3D graphics.

And, yes, the Handheld Engine automatically throttles its speed depending on the application/user activity.

Only 16 MB main memory?

sessamoid @ 7/17/2003 3:42:12 PM #
It's a beautiful device, but only 16 MB of main memory? Talk about crippling your releases, especially compared to the Tungsten C. I've got a 16 MB T615C right now pushing the limits of the memory, and there are already applications I'd like to add to it. A PDA with only 16 MB of memory is not an upgrade to me. What were they thinking?

RE: Only 16 MB main memory?
hoodoo @ 7/17/2003 4:39:44 PM #
Quote from first page of comments:

The 4.5 hours using wifi is excellent battery life. That's seems to be the beneficial trade-off one gets in return for a slower CPU and only 16 MB of RAM storage memory (but you also get 16 MB of program memory + 22 MB of built-in card memory + 16 MB of suspend/backup memory).

so it's not that bad!!



RE: Only 16 MB main memory?
sessamoid @ 7/17/2003 5:16:59 PM #
That doesn't address my needs at all, as I stated in my original post. I need more main memory due to programs with large databases that do not run from expansion memory. An expensive 16MB PDA is useless to me.

So yes, it is that bad after all.

My feelings

M3wThr33 @ 7/17/2003 5:08:57 PM #
Well, it's another Clie.

It ain't a Garmine iQue competitor, it's another richboy gadget, meaning it won't be cheap and doesn't appeal to everyone.

The keyboard is a nice touch. Rich college students will like it for notes and the like. The camera was added as a pittance to compete with the Zire71. The only problem I have with it is the lack of a d-pad. All that power, colors, sounds, and not a d-pad for games seems like a waste, but if what I read about key remapping, that may be better. GTS Racing in landscape will look nice.

Aside from the wi-fi, it's just another device that fits a small niche and is meant to get more oohs and aahs than actual practicality. I long for the days of the n760c.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

RE: My feelings
Selbstlade @ 7/17/2003 9:27:07 PM #
"it's another richboy gadget, meaning it won't be cheap and doesn't appeal to everyone."

Actually, doesn't that describe nearly all PDAs in general? ;-)

Selbstlade

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: My feelings
M3wThr33 @ 7/17/2003 10:31:08 PM #
Well, my Zire71 seems business enough where I won't be looked at as a COMPLETE big spender.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

About the landscape/portait talk..

helf @ 7/17/2003 5:33:13 PM #
Look at this pic -> http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0717/sony201.jpg

now look at the top right hand corner of the pda's screen..see that littel blue box with a white arrow in it? isnt the what the "maximize" button on a normal clie look like? :)

There, I have proved it has a portrait mode! :D yay for me.

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
helf @ 7/17/2003 5:36:25 PM #
RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
alanh @ 7/17/2003 5:42:51 PM #
Wouldn't switching from landscape to portrait break all of the sub-pixel font smoothing apps? e.g. deepreader, WordSmith, etc?

Maybe they want to maintain compatibility with all of them....

-alan

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
lak @ 7/17/2003 5:58:22 PM #
No, that icon probably launches the virtual graffiti area; but it is still in landscape mode.

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:12:39 PM #
There is NO portrait mode!

Via babelfish:

"The PEG-UX50 note PC like it has the hardware keyboard became design. Folding display on the keyboard, the gimmick which it makes pen operation form is succeeded until recently from the NX series of the machine. Display folding, the picture does the 480320 dot and with while it is wide, while also pen operation is wide. Like the Zaurus SL-C7XX series of sharp there is no mechanism which turns to the depth picture."

-- in other words, it should read, that last sentence: "Unlike the Zaurus SL-C7XX from Sharp, there is no provision to rotate the screen into portrait mode."

And I agree with the above poster: That white arrow is for Soft Graffiti/Decuma. That area will show the input area when a 320x320 program is running on the left hand side of the wide screen. Yeesh!

You know, HandEra took a real pounding for allowing 160x160 programs to run on their 240x320 display. They looked awkward. Yet Sony is doing something along the same lines...

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
helf @ 7/17/2003 6:30:47 PM #
d'oh..oh well i tried :)



RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:56:13 PM #
I wish you had been right! Maybe the US version *will* have it...

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
helf @ 7/17/2003 7:57:07 PM #
Maybe.This pda might be one that finally converts me over to sony :) My he330 is aging and I'm looking for a good replacement. This one might be it.

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
orb2069 @ 7/18/2003 1:53:44 AM #
You know, HandEra took a real pounding...

Yeah - In case you haven't noticed, the folks around here have diffrent standards for diffrent companies.

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:27:24 AM #
Hell, they even have different standards for different people.

RE: About the landscape/portait talk..
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 9:55:19 AM #
Congratulations to Palm SG for putting BOTH landscape AND portrait in the leaked Tungsten T3!

Slot machine Launcher

mikecane @ 7/17/2003 6:24:27 PM #
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0717/sony215.jpg

-- I mean, who came up with this?! Some engineer with a gambling problem?!

I hate the expanding icons on Mac's OSX dock. Now Sony's gone and done something along those lines. Yecch. At least they allow you to go back to Classic icon mode.

RE: Slot machine Launcher
JKingGrim @ 7/17/2003 11:26:29 PM #
Look at the top. There is a slider that allows you to specify how much to strech the items. It also lets you zoom.

RE: Slot machine Launcher
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:02:30 AM #
Ah, so that's what that control is for. Thanks. Still don't like it.

Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?

robrecht @ 7/17/2003 7:28:53 PM #
Larger (3.8") 320X480 portrait and landscape mode transflective display with dual SDIO & bluetooth & built-in stereo speakers & Palm Universal Connector (for keyboard?) at the bottom of the landscape mode. I'm thinking the Tapwave Helix could be better than this SONY thumboard. Personally, I would rather have a full-size folding keyboard for when I need to type fast and less bulk for when I don't. The Tapwave should be slightly thinner (.6") and slightly lighter (<6 oz), although some say the overall size will be rather large. We should be getting one more fact tomorrow ... Just tell us everything all at once.

I think it all depends on how well Tapwave cultivates software titles (other than games).

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
mikecane @ 7/17/2003 8:27:57 PM #
Will the Helix do landscape *and* portrait?

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
Selbstlade @ 7/17/2003 9:12:28 PM #
IMHO, the built-in wifi and thumbboard put this device in a whole different category than the Tapwave Helix. I'd compare it more directly to the Tungsten|C, with the exception of the processor.

Tapwave Helix will probably be targeted to gamers who are also potential first-time Palm users. That sort of audience demands a low price point, meaning a low-range product. If it's any higher than say $200-$250, that will price it out of its target market. It won't be sporting a magnesium-alloy shell, thats for sure!

Selbstlade

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
gfunkmagic @ 7/17/2003 10:13:54 PM #
The Tapwave Helix will also have integrated BT, and you could use one of the dual SDIO slot with the forthcoming SD-wifi cards. Plus, it will probably have more than 16 MB (normal) Ram...

Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.
RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
JKingGrim @ 7/17/2003 11:29:29 PM #
If it's any higher than say $200-$250, that will price it out of its target market. It won't be sporting a magnesium-alloy shell, thats for sure!

I believe someone in this discussion said $200 and $300(WHAT?) for the camera version.


Plus, it will probably have more than 16 MB (normal) Ram...

Wasn't this spec given in the Tapwave article?

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
Selbstlade @ 7/18/2003 12:16:05 AM #
IMHO, the trouble with Helix is that if it is perceived as a gaming device, $200 will be way too much, since at that price point the GBA has a much bigger library, and Sony's PSP will have the same screen size, but a larger library as well. Perhaps it will be a decent PDA, but I can imagine that in the quest to hit the $200 mark, certain size and functionality sacrifices will have to be made.

So what we have here is a jack of all trades, master of none. Still, I hope against hope that Tapwave will prove me wrong, so that all the people who whine about how the latest PDA is ill-suited for gaming will have a device to call their own...

Selbstlade

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
kevdo @ 7/18/2003 1:00:45 AM #
>if it is perceived as a gaming device, $200 will be way too much

I suppose for kids, but Tapwave isn't targeted at kids but at young adults who would appreciate the PIM features of the Palm OS.

I'll tell you right now that even though I have brand new Zire 71 if the Tapwave device is less than $300 I'm buying the first day (assuming the screen is okay, etc...). I am SOO excited about the Tapwave device.

This is probably the best Clie in a while but why oh why can't Sony make a device with decent buttons (or button arrangement) and a stylus?

Jeff Hawkins and the original Palm team got it. Wish Sony did too.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
Selbstlade @ 7/18/2003 2:22:58 AM #
"This is probably the best Clie in a while but why oh why can't Sony make a device with decent buttons (or button arrangement) and a stylus?"

I think the Sony buttons pretty good, even in their low end (i.e. SJ series). On the other hand, the new Z71's buttons feel "mushy". As for button placement, Palm does have more common sense. It's typical Sony to try to squeeze in as many buttons and controls as possible and make them small and cute looking, but inappropriately sized for large hands. Hey, it's what sells in Japan.

Selbstlade

-----

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 8:10:42 AM #
I think it all depends on how well Tapwave cultivates software titles (other than games).

It also depends on the look of the device. First impressions on Brighthand and elsewhere seemed kind of rectangular and professional, but the Tapwave website is now hinting at a curvey form factor, which looks more like a gamers toy.

Will the Helix do landscape *and* portrait?

Yes

IMHO, the built-in wifi and thumbboard put this device in a whole different category

As others have pointed out, dual expansion should allow for wifi. The possibility of using an XT full-size keyboard in landscape mode instead of a thumboard is one of the things that most attracts me to the Tapwave.

Pricing is supposed to be $200 and $300 with a camera. The low price is what concerns me most about the Tapwave, leading me to believe it will only be for gamers. Weve known all along that it was primarily intended for gamers, but the specs are tempting nonetheless.


Thanks, robrecht

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
JKingGrim @ 7/18/2003 10:04:26 AM #
This is probably the best Clie in a while but why oh why can't Sony make a device with decent buttons (or button arrangement) and a stylus?a

Huh? Whats wrong with the stylus? I saw a pic of it on a link posted somwhere on this page, and it telescopes to what apears to be double size.

I think it all depends on how well Tapwave cultivates software titles (other than games).

Why should Tapwave worry about non-game products? You act like it runs a brand spankin new OS? It runs Palm OS for goodness sake. There are plenty of nongames out there for buisiness workers.


The low price is what concerns me most about the Tapwave, leading me to believe it will only be for gamers.

Thats the beauty of POS. It matters no what a POS device is designed for. It can do a lot of cool things.


RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 10:26:08 AM #
>>>Huh? Whats wrong with the stylus? I saw a pic of it on a link posted somwhere on this page, and it telescopes to what apears to be double size.

Well, that double-size is actually the same size as the "standard" stylus they are using. Too thin, too short. Too bad!

RE: Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 10:29:21 AM #
"Why should Tapwave worry about non-game products? You act like it runs a brand spankin new OS? It runs Palm OS for goodness sake. There are plenty of nongames out there for buisiness workers."

I am especially interested in using word processing and spreadsheet programs in landscape mode, which was done well by Handera but not by SONY. Also, the last I heard, it was not definite that keyboards would be supported even though there is a Palm Universal Connector on the bottom of the landscape orientation.

"The low price is what concerns me most about the Tapwave, leading me to believe it will only be for gamers."

"Thats the beauty of POS. It matters no what a POS device is designed for. It can do a lot of cool things."

Only if it is well designed.



Thanks, robrecht

RE: T3 vs Tapwave Helix vs Sony UX-50?
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 10:47:28 AM #
Check out the pics of the T3 over at Brighthand.

Thanks, robrecht

Portrait mode

Selbstlade @ 7/17/2003 9:01:48 PM #
Until more facts are released, I assume that even if the OS does not have built in support for display rotation, that does not preclude developers from retooling their existing hires+ apps to work with this horizontal hires+.

The lack of four hard buttons (only 3) or 5-way navigator is sure to step on some toes. However, the only category of apps that truly depends on the navigator and hard buttons are games. I still can't believe how many people will judge a handheld organizer on its ability to play games. Sure, I've Vexed and Timebomb installed on my unit, but those only serve an auxilliary purpose. IMHO, if one wants to play games portably, one should look to something along the lines of a GBA or something. Benefits? Much cheaper, much larger game library, much better controls.

On a final note, $600 seems to be a bit plenty for an ARM processor. The price seems more along the lines of an Xscale device. The "Handheld Engine" package is very reminiscent of the OMAP1510 package, with the notable exception of the graphics accelerator.

Selbstlade

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: Portrait mode
helf @ 7/18/2003 1:23:44 PM #
The omap cant run between 8 and 123mhz depending on what an app needs right? :)

RE: Portrait mode
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 5:27:44 PM #
> The omap cant run between 8 and 123mhz depending on what an app needs right? :)

Actually, the ARM9 in the OMAP1510 switches between 0 and 144 MHz, depending on what a well-written app requires. What the HHE also allows is lowering the voltage at lower clock rates, which helps reduce power even further.

RE: Portrait mode
helf @ 7/20/2003 8:55:02 AM #
oh.Cool. I did'nt know that :)

Helix

JKingGrim @ 7/17/2003 11:38:42 PM #
I know this is way OT, but go to www.godoplay.com/tapwave.html

Cool sneak peaks of Helix. Graphics are not at all bad. They reveal A little more every week.

RE: Helix
renurb @ 7/18/2003 12:30:54 AM #
I don't mind that this is "OT". I was actually curious about this tapwave thing, but what a god-awful website. What's with all the flash animation? I'm even on a cable connection and it's slow.



Blessed are they who don't,
For they shall not,
Nor will they.

RE: Helix
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:06:15 AM #
*All* Flashed sites should begin with a "Flash? Yes/No" page so those of us who can't stand being drowned in Flash can skip it and get to the info.

RE: Helix
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:28:19 AM #
I logged in ten minutes ago to the site ... and the globe is *still* spinning and the page is *still* blank. What a way to display your (in)competency...

RE: Helix
JKingGrim @ 7/18/2003 10:12:44 AM #
You mean you guys got nowhere? When the page loads, you are supposed to click on the thingy that says "Not the only gameboy in town".

RE: Helix
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 10:27:37 AM #
I get, as Col. Klink would say, "Nothing!"

Damn Flash. Any way to post any stills somewhere? (Is there a Tapwave/Tupperware Forum here yet?)

RE: Helix
fleegle @ 7/18/2003 10:54:23 AM #
I get, as Col. Klink would say, "Nothing!"

No. Sargeant Schultz said that. But let's drop it... we're showing our age. ;-)

RE: Helix
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:58:49 PM #
Klink, Schultz. Whatever. At least I didn't cite Gilligan.

Of course, there's always what Bob did before Gilligan -- the show Dobie Gillis. "WORK?!!?"

Price

chrisINjapan @ 7/18/2003 12:03:11 AM #
I found it it will retail for 69800 Japanese yen. Which means it will sell for $699 in dollar. It is messed up that Sony does that, cause if you convert the yen to dollar you only end up paying $580(divide yen by 120). I bought the NX73V for 49800yen, which is $415.

check this site:

http://www.biccamera.com/bicbic/jsp/w/pc/sony/ux50/index.jsp

Battery Life

fulmer @ 7/18/2003 12:05:37 AM #
http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0307/18/l_clbatt.jpg

The top shows video playback with the external battery pack at 12hrs, without the external battery pack at 5hrs.

The bottom shows music playback with the external battery pack at 35hrs, without the external battery pack at 16hrs.

They built an external battery pack for it?
orb2069 @ 7/18/2003 2:01:10 AM #
What makes me think that, if they've ALREADY built an external battery pack for it, that it's not going to have quite the amazing battery life they're claiming?

Did you see how large this little gem was going to be?

Programmers for Palms OS

ronningfamily @ 7/18/2003 12:09:03 AM #
Geez,

Now I have to create a version for the


Old Palms
Sony Clies Hi Res
Sony OS5 Hi Res
Palm OS5 Hi Res
Sony Landscape Mode....

I love Palm and am a die hard fan, but we need to follow the KISS principal. Keep it Simple Stupid...

We want Palms with a ton of internal memory, MP3 Player, and the new OS. Landscape is fine, but why not use the new Sony's and Palms coming without the Graffit are and have docs to go bring excel to us in the landscape mode.

My T665C is still holding it's own against the best out there. OS 6 needs to sweep me off my feet, or everything on my ZLaucher 665C is running like a dream.

I want an extension of my PC not a fricking laptop.
OS 6 should bring the Palm back.

I have played with a friends Pocket PC over the weekend and I will stick with my Palm any day. Easier to use, faster in my everyday PDA functions.

Palm needs a Zire Model with the Full Screen and an upgrade in their camera, along with voice recorder, and that is the ultimate PC oh and Wi Fi and Bluetooth. That would be the perfect PDA.

Mark

RE: Programmers for Palms OS
Selbstlade @ 7/18/2003 12:25:41 AM #
I don't want to sound antagonistic or anything, but you pretty much just flat out contradicted yourself:

"I love Palm and am a die hard fan, but we need to follow the KISS principal. Keep it Simple Stupid..."

"Palm needs a Zire Model with the Full Screen and an upgrade in their camera, along with voice recorder, and that is the ultimate PC oh and Wi Fi and Bluetooth. That would be the perfect PDA."

Palm doesn't create PDAs for the enthusiast market. Palm creates PDAs that will appeal to everyone. Sony creates PDAs for enthusiasts (NZ90, anyone?)

Selbstlade

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105 (everyone's got that "experimentation phase" right?), Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: Programmers for Palms OS
Selbstlade @ 7/18/2003 12:29:50 AM #
P.S. I should note that I was referring to the "Zire" product line, and not the "Tungsten" line, which is definitely not targeted at avg consumers. Also, when I say "everyone" I rather mean "the majority of the PDA-owning and potential PDA-owning consumer market".


P.P.S. Is there any way to edit your comments after posting on PIC?

Selb

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: Programmers for Palms OS
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:54:22 AM #
>>>P.P.S. Is there any way to edit your comments after posting on PIC?

No. Your words live forever to haunt you. A whole new generation of trolls will come along to rub them in your face. Pray for an EMP.

Abandoned Design...

McTrinsic @ 7/18/2003 1:39:42 AM #
Looks like the old Simens IC35 "Unifier" to me.

An old, abandoned design.

Have fun,
McTrinsic

Info about UX Series on Sony.com

Alex M @ 7/18/2003 8:18:07 AM #
There is information the Sony site on the UX series http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2C612F45 . The UX40 (599.99US, released Sept 26th) does not have 802.11 while the UX50 does (699.99US, released Sept 12th). Besides 802.11, I am not sure what else is different about the units.

RE: Info about UX Series on Sony.com
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 8:42:27 AM #
Good catch, AlexM.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Info about UX Series on Sony.com
Enfors @ 7/18/2003 9:05:12 AM #
Looking under "Specifications" at the above link, I noticed this:

"Palm OS 5 v. 5.0"

Hey, what's this? Palm OS 5 version 5.0? Does that mean it's not PalmOS 5.2?

-Enfors-

RE: Info about UX Series on Sony.com
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:11:24 AM #
Well, foo won't be getting one, willya foo? It's more than your -- hah! -- $300 (or was that $400?) price limit.

$699 for WiFi + BT?

Let's see... hp 2215 with BT built-in is $400, add $100 for WiFi CF, $100 for hp folding keyboard ... still $100 less. Ouch.

Oh, wait! It has "Sony" stamped on it. Riiight.

RE: Info about UX Series on Sony.com
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:14:40 AM #
Eh. I forgot the camera. OK, then, it's a wash, I guess.

RE: Info about UX Series on Sony.com
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:17:12 AM #
"Memory
"Total 104 MB (16 MB available for storage of files and programs. Additional 16 MB available for system back up. Additional 29 MB available for media storage)"

-- where do they get that 104MB from?!

RE: Info about UX Series on Sony.com
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:19:02 AM #
"Sony Software
[...]
CLIə FAQ"

-- eh?! FAQ on the desktop or in the CLUX?

news.com chimes in

mikecane @ 7/18/2003 9:58:47 AM #

The more things change...

AWhistler @ 7/18/2003 11:11:53 AM #
the more they stay the same. This is starting to look like the old Toshiba Libretto 50 and 100 PC's. It's also starting to look like the old Casio B.O.S.S. organizers.

Why are they making PDA's look like laptops? I thought Palm, and Apple before it, made a big spash by purposely NOT looking like a micro-laptop.

My Handera 330 upgrade looks like it will remain the Zire 71 when my 330 dies and I have a reason to spend that much money on a new PDA.

UX40, WITHOUT Wifi

moth2lite @ 7/18/2003 12:28:34 PM #
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/imagesProducts/ProductTour/computing/ux50/wireless.html

There is a UX 40, which is same as UX50 but without Wifi and the Color of the keyboard is different.

CNET has UX video!

mikecane @ 7/21/2003 7:31:21 PM #
Go to http://www.news.com and look at thr right-hand column for the link.

(Someone more technically adept will no doubt be able to grab and post the direct URL.)

Top