Comments on: Sony Clie PEG-UX50 and UX40 Announced
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RE: SEPTEMBER!!
Thanks, robrecht
RE: SEPTEMBER!!
RE: SEPTEMBER!!
Given Palm OS's "architecture", trying to take full advantage of lots of memory is hard. Sony evidently didn't feel it was worth the considerable development effort to get PalmOS to do better.
Let's hope PalmOS 6 will finally address this issue.
RE: SEPTEMBER!!
RE: SEPTEMBER!!
Well, these devices do have 29mb extra storage area, but I believe that with OS6, the T|c's and the (hopefully) T|t3's 51mb will be made just as useful.
RE: SEPTEMBER!!
The UX series has 16MB available for built-in applications and 29MB for media storage (JPGs, MPEGs, etc), which is 45MB. I'm guessing there's some ROM that can be opened up in the future for more room as well.
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splat
splat@altavista.net
More overpriced gadgets from Sony
-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
Besides, most Canadians' price references will be to the US $, not Yen.
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
"Someone asked about the high prices at today's press conference. Basically, this person pointed out most handhelds are going for about $300, so how can Sony justify $700? A spokesperson answered that Sony had seen good sales of its previous high-end Clies and expected the same for the UX models."
Nice, huh?
(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
Sony models are up the roof.
I cant belive they never (read NEVER) lowered the prices of m505 and m515. As m515 was introduced at $400US the m505 stayed at $450US, can you belive this shee it? And those prices are still on today.
The prices in Europe are similar to those you have in Canada.
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
Ridiculous. Besides Palm gives better support to its customers, than sony. I guess I have to re-buy all those accessories I sold from my m505!! OH well....
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
RE: More overpriced gadgets from Sony
Seriously, why is it that the MORE advance 'automated assembling factories' get, which equate to less labour payment and all, the MORE expensive goods and services get ? -- if you talk about researching and development, Hmm.. right, add in extra 16K RAM, fix up a faulty button that got past quality testing and call that research ? *grin*
Ooo yeah, a Palm T tessentials kits that sells for US$29 (AUS$44) is selling for $99.
RAM
16+16+16+29 = 77MB
And why seperate media storage and file/program storage? Just lump it all togther.
"The models have a total of 104 MB or RAM. Of that 16 MB is available for traditional storage of files and programs, another 16MB is used for the dynamic heap. Another 16 MB or non-volatile memory is dedicated for system back up to save the contents of RAM when the battery is low. Finally there is an additional 29 MB available for media storage, that acts as a traditional memory stick."
-- Fammy
RE: RAM
Maybe... why else would they need 16MB of non-volatile memory, but only for "Backup" in case of low battery?!?!
-JWH
RE: RAM
perhaps this can be fixed with an OS update?
-JWH
RE: RAM
RE: RAM
We know the "Handheld Engine" has 64Mbit of built-in RAM... which is 8MB. Let's assume that's part of the 104MB.
So 104 - 8 = 96
96 = 32MB DRAM + 64MB non-volatile
32MB DRAM = 16MB heap + 16MB user space
64MB non-volitile = 22MB media/storage + 16MB backup + 26MB X
What is X? Is that ROM software?
RE: RAM
Then Sony is falsely advertising. 16 MB non-volatile RAM? Is there such a thing? I think that's most likely Flash storage space, not RAM. The multimedia files for 29 MB, okay, and the dynamic heap taking up 16 MB, alright. But then ROM occupies the other 30-some MB? Well call me crazy, but then they should advertise the NX series as having 64 MB RAM. 16 usable, 16 heap, and 32 ROM.
-Bosco
RE: RAM
RE: RAM
My new NX80 has 32MB RAM, 16 for the user/program storage, 16 for system overhead/heap. All of the Sony apps are in ROM, but the protected RAM helps some of them (Netfront browser is one example) run more efficiently, without having to fight for volatile memory with the apps stored in RAM.
RE: RAM
RE: RAM
Thus,
16MB User-accessible RAM
16MB Heap RAM
+29MB As a fake-o memory stick
=64MB Ram, minus some formatting overhead.
16MB FlashROM for system backup
26MB FlashROM for PalmOS/bundled programs
=40MB FlashROM
40MB+64MB = 104MB. Now it makes sense.
-JWH
RE: RAM
You can not count the SRAM in the processor, that is stupid. Because you can not store independent data inside such memory for as long as an user wanted.
A PDA should only be rated by the size of usable RAM, which is 16MB. That's it!
RE: RAM
Otherwise why not store other files & run progs from it?
RE: RAM
-JWH
RE: RAM
That is exactly my point. Its all a marketting pitch for the really challenged.
RE: RAM
Thanks, robrecht
RE: RAM
Clie w/o camera
RE: Clie w/o camera
RE: Clie w/o camera
RE: Clie w/o camera
BT+CAM= $600
my ideas
BT= $500
Nothing Special= $400
i myself would buy the nothing special model
Play MP3's from a bluetooth or wifi attached drive?
This question isn't directed at the UX50, but Palm devices with WiFi built in in general(I think). So anyways, could I use this thing to play MP3's from a shared drive on a WiFi network? Or what about a MP3 stream from a BT or WiFi equipped laptop?
Since I carry a PCG-U3 notebook in my bag, which is too cumbersome for me to use as an MP3 player; this would solve my insatiability for virtually unlimited storage of MP3's, videos, etc.; yet is still a really small package that can stand alone without the connection to the notebook.
I stopped using my Palm i705 months ago and haven't been keeping up with the latest wireless technologies and their implementations in palm devices...
Thanks in advance,
Scott
RE: Play MP3's from a bluetooth or wifi attached drive?
Not sure on the throughput possible on these PDA 802.11 implementations though. I thought the T/C was quite a lot slower than the 11Mbps attainable on a desktop or laptop. Maybe it wouldn't be fast enough for streaming 128Kbps MP3's... It'd really suck your batteries dry too, WiFi and MP3 decoding constantly.
-James.
RE: Play MP3's from a bluetooth or wifi attached drive?
-James.
RE: Play MP3's from a bluetooth or wifi attached drive?
It's advertisements and stories all mentioned using it as a data storage device for PDA access, noting that Bluetooth had just enough bandwidth to stream an MP3 from it.
Did this ever work, or is that why it's discontinued? Or is it? :-)
- Scott
RE: Play MP3's from a bluetooth or wifi attached drive?
For those kinds of applications, the Sharp Zaurus really shines: it is trivial to turn it into a wireless MP3 player given all the networking, scripting, and web tools it comes with.
Gotta love the diversity
RE: Gotta love the diversity
RE: Gotta love the diversity
Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Gotta love the diversity
RE: Gotta love the diversity
PPC lacks that diversity by design: Microsoft specifies tightly what the hardware should look like. That has a lot of advantages.
The problem with the diversity of PalmOS is that lots of things just don't work properly across models. For example, Palm audio players work on none of the PalmOS 5 Sony machines because Sony uses a different API. And applications on Palm have lots of trouble dealing with different screen resolutions and sizes. These new Sonys are going to add yet more proprietary APIs, just like Tapwave does for gaming.
However, there is a great diversity of devices running Windows CE, as well as Linux and Symbian (have a look at http://www.dynamism.com/">the Nexio S160 and Sharp SL-C760. Those devices show that you can have diverse hardware and still do a lot better than PalmOS at supporting them with a single OS.
The real reason why you see a lot of Palm devices is because Palm has a lot of market share, not because the OS is particularly well suited to it.
RE: Gotta love the diversity
>PPC lacks that diversity by design: Microsoft
>specifies tightly what the hardware should look like.
>That has a lot of advantages.
>The problem with the diversity of PalmOS is that lots
>of things just don't work properly across models. For
>example, Palm audio players work on none of the PalmOS
>5 Sony machines because Sony uses a different API. And
That's nothing to do with Palm; If Sony had done the right thing and implemented the Palm sound API (once Palm had released it; I believe Sony did their hardware first), it doesn't matter what hardware lies underneath. PalmOS software should work on all units that run PalmOS.
>applications on Palm have lots of trouble dealing with
>different screen resolutions and sizes. These new
>Sonys are going to add yet more proprietary APIs, just
>like Tapwave does for gaming.
Agreed maybe Palm should have done better resolution independant support for display hardware. However, at least we have choice in the Palm field; PPC is at one resolution, I think. Choice is good, so is progress and Palm hardware has certainly done that.
-James.
RE: Gotta love the diversity
And why is this? PPC has been around long enough at this point (and have a wide enough variety of hardware partners) to overtake Palm (haven't PPC geeks been predicting this for years?). It just hasn't happened. Sounds like the market has spoken.
As big as they are, Microsoft doesn't always win. If anything I think it has to do with the fact that, of all the technological products in the world, PDAs/cell phones are not particularly well suited to bloatware.
USB?
RE: USB?
RE: USB?
Thats correct. The cradle (also sold separately on Sonystyle) does not plug into a USB port, nor does it have enough contacts. Most likely the rationale here is that the device would be used on wifi-heavy campuses where network sync would be available. Barring that, theres still the bluetooth path.
As for supporting USB peripherals, that seems unlikely, as was the case with previous Sony Clies with a USB port. If I recall correctly this is due to the fact that the USB controllers onboard cannot act as a USB master.
Selbstlade
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Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.
RE: USB?
Well, then for probably less than a dollar, they could add a USB master port. Some other PDAs have USB master ports built in (the Yopy, for example), and most PPC and Linux-based PDAs can accept a USB controller as a CF card.
RE: USB?
It's probably a bit more complicated than that. The physical plug is completely the same, but the USB controlling logic (which is inside the CPU) has to be made to master the bus. Changing CPU designs after manufacture has begun is no small feat, even if its a small change.
Furthermore, you neglect to consider that USB was wildly successful in the desktop environment for two things: it presented an easy to use plug-n-play interface for new peripherals, and it also received broad backing in terms of driver support in USB compatible OSes.
Palm devices on the other hand were not meant to have other devices connected by wires to them for regular usage, as that would hinder the whole point of portability (could you imagine carrying around a Palm with USB attached keyboard, phone, printer, mouse, etc?). That is why we have the docking cradle connector; any accessories designed to operate with the Palm could attach directly to the Palm and avoid adding extra bulk. My only gripe in this respect is that Palm (now Palmsource) did not standardize the Palm Universal Connector as well. Sony Clies would be a lot more accessible if they used the PUC.
Many people believe that if a product has a USB port, it can magically connect to any other device that has a USB port; not so. In fact, this is one of the same problems Bluetooth is experiencing.
Back on topic, I think the UX40/50's charging cradle looks pretty nice. It seems like Sony designed it with the intent of making the UX holdable while it's plugged into the wall (versus holding a Palm or Clie in its cradle). So at the expense of synchronisation, the standard charger now also doubles as a travel charger and a run-on-AC adapter.
Selbstlade
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Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.
RE: USB?
Sony already did something like this. The cradle for the NZ90 has a USB host connector, letting you print pictures directly from the device.
--
Ben Combee, CodeWarrior for Palm OS technical lead
Programming help at www.palmoswerks.com
RE: USB?
That is correct. This is an excellent example of the diversity of Palm. Sony would never go after the educational market Alphasmart is trying to tap. The concept of a low-cost laptop replacement that can also tap the immense Palm software library is pretty ingenious. The USB host controller is an appropriate addition here to effect the feeling of replacing a computer (rather than just being a handheld), and there is ample room for full sized USB plugs. We'll just have to see about the drivers though.
Sony likes its devices small, expensive, with lots of wow factor. If they continue to use the Handheld Engine in the future, then it's likely Clies will never be able to host, since the USB controller is integrated into the HE cpu (check the block diagram floating around).
That doesn't prevent keyboards from working via the serial port, or printing over IR/Bluetooth.
Selb
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Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.
RE: USB?
I guess then the question becomes 'Why didn't Sony actually put something like USB-on-the-go ( A form of USB 2.0 that allows one device to assume both 'master' and 'slave' roles on the bus - See
http://www.everythingusb.com/usbonthego/ ) into the Handheld Engine?'
It's kind of hard to blame this oversight on the chip manuf. when that's ALSO Sony.
Videoconferencing?
OK, the quality wouldn't be that great. But it should be possible to get far better quality than videophones you can get that use phone lines.
http://www.vialta.com/ ($500 for a pair)
http://www.innomedia.com/videophone/videophone.htm
Genius is one percent inspiration, and ninety-nine percent perspiration. -- Thomas Alva Edison
RE: Videoconferencing?
Selbstlade
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Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.
Hmmmm
RE: Hmmmm
RE: Hmmmm
Of course Sony is "loosing" its edge. I mean, we've already seen a horizontal layout PDA with landscape screen and a larger thumb board for easier typing. And it's not like we haven't seen a PDA with wireless internet and Bluetooth built in. I mean, c'mon Sony, be a LITTLE innovative here. Right?
*** END SARCASM ***
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splat
splat@altavista.net
RE: Edge
> SONY is loosing its edge.
No, the Edge was a Handspring product. And it didn't sell as well as many Sony models, in spite of its thin design.
Wi-Fi
The new Sony is excellent [although the price is extrememly steep] but, I'm questioning why in such a feature rich device they didn't offer both 802.11b & g, especially for $100 difference. What are the hardware differences in b & g? To my understanding, they both operate @ 2.4Ghz. & now that the g standard is finalized, why not make it both? I know most corporations & other places have primarily b, but up & coming home users are taking adavantage of g.
i'm interested to know what everyone's take on this is.
thanks,
-painted dog
RE: Wi-Fi
802.11b should be more than enough for any applications that the Handheld Engine can handle, so it doesn't seem like 802.11g is necessary at this point. In fact, most likely the reason 802.11b was included in the first place was because it is the most prevalent wireless networking standard. (Remember that people were getting along just fine using CDPD modems and GPRS for email and internet).
Selbstlade
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Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.
I think Sony's overdoing it a little here....
With a Digital Camera, MP3 Player included with this baby, I think Sony's overdoing it a little bit here. Possibly a Camcorder on this handheld as well.
Also, even though there could be 104MB Memory on this handheld, I could only use up to 16MB of Memory on this one, so I will need at least 64MB useable if Sony wants me to buy one of their handhelds.
I'd rather buy something much tamer for a Palm-Powered Handheld IMO.
Established Consumer Palm Handheld Possessor since 2002
it is innovative
Review for the UX50
http://palmoslove.com/work/feature/news20030717.html
Maybe we could get a translation? Apologies if this has been posted before.
Wi-Fi on the Sony Clie PEG-UX40
Thanks
RE: Wi-Fi on the Sony Clie PEG-UX40
Sharp Wizard-->Handspring Visor "Deluxe"-->Sony Clie SJ30-->Palm Tungsten T3 w/ SE T68i
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SEPTEMBER!!
That seems like a long wait. I want the T3!
Hello Mike Cane, the T3 has portrait and landscape!