Comments on: Rumor: Tungsten T3 with 320x480 Screen

Who's truely going to use that level of speed on a PDA? It's certainly not worth the power demands that WiFi makes. Sure, if I were downloading attachments, the speed of WiFi would be welcome, but the processor speed on most PDAs can't handle that kind of data flow. I think Wi-Fi in the consumer PDA market is completely hype. I work in an MIS shop and have a couple of guys that have Toshiba PDAs with WiFi built-in and both say they hardly use it.

My complaint would be more along the lines that there are no bluetooth cell phones in the CDMA market. Sony-Ericsson was going to come out with the T608 for Sprint and it was rumored that a "rev. 2" version of the T606 for Verizon might have Bluetooth. But with Sony-Ericsson leaving the CDMA market entirely, both are in doubt.

But this T3 looks so sweet. It looks like they reallyt did it right.

What you are clearly referring to is portability with your laptop, not portability with your PDA, just like I was comparing in the original post. When I say that when you're in a WiFi spot and there are tons of computers around, usually that means you can use one of them. If for some reason you can't, how is a PDA going to replace the functionality of a computer? And what exactly does that have to do with anything WiFi / BT related? My point was that WiFi does work on PDAs, but it's inherently limiting since PDAs themselves are so highly mobile and are very often in places where WiFi is nowhere to be found.

Tell me, what is the difference between using WiFi or BT to check your mail once you have it all set up properly? Or look up an address? Or do some light web surfing? There is none, on a PDA. The only difference is that with BT, you are the access point. You can leave campus and not break the connection. WiFi is constrained to bubbles. Perhaps large bubbles (such as the case with certain campuses), but do you live in one completely, all the time?

I'll be the first to admit that there are some hurdles prior, such as proper data service plans and a connectivity device, but after that, bluetooth is a much more complete solution to what a PDA's functions are. It's strange; WiFi should be the niche device for PDAs, while BT should be more of the standard, but people seem to have it backwards in their heads. I can only attribute this to (again)

1 - lack of experience with BT
2 - the pervasivness of WiFi

I have serious doubts about your experience with BT, because, as another person posted, those who have used both have realized that WiFi on a PDA is not all that useful once the uber-factor has worn off, even in very well covered areas. What you do on a PDA is very different from what you do on a desktop or notebook, and 99%of those functions do not require high bandwidth or constant connections. What they do need is access when you need it, at a moment's notice. WiFi cannot always provide that.

And one more time, I'll say it; WiFi on a PDA is *not* a negative, it just shouldn't be as important as people are making it out to be, unless you only use your PDA for TCP/IP connectivity (BT is much more than that) and not PIM functions (such as sending phone numbers to be dialed to your phone), you only use your PDA in WiFi access areas, and you never use your PDA for connectivity anywhere else.

But give me Bluetooth. WF has too many penalties for most of us. Let it come on an SD card or a drifferent model. Most buyers of most PDAs will never miss WF, so let Palm and others design a separate one for them.

Can't wait to see if this makes it to market.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5213

W-Fless PDAs certainly outsell those with W-F, and BT enable PDAs probably outsell W-Fless as well.

I don't want to pay size or cost penalties for W-F, but I do find BT to be very useful.

So make the PDA for the majority, and a separate version (as they have with the W and C.

When the day finally does come that there are no penalties for including it, then by all means, toss it in.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

In Europe on the other hand, WiFi has been slower taking off (there's certainly no coverage anywhere at my university), whereas mobile use is widespread - a vast percentage of the population own one (>95% of students I would guess) and they're all GSM mobiles. Many GSM mobiles now come with Bluetooth connectivity built-in, therefore for European users it's arguably more useful to have a PDA with BT rather than WiFi.

However, as others have already mentioned it's not a competition between the two standards - they've been designed for different uses. In view of the increasing power of PDAs though, lots of people use them at times as a laptop replacement - therefore they are fulfilling two different roles and probably need to have both WiFi and BT connectivity.

Cheers

Alan

The Tungsten C fits the bill for campus type usage, wharehousing, etc. - kind of like a laptop replacement (which is why it comes with a keyboard).

Of course it would be smart with both in one unit - then we could have the best of both worlds - but bluetooth and WiFi would still serve two different purposes!

Although I love my Tungsten|T and how the slider gives it a more compact feel, but after daily use since the day I purchased it (at launch), I'm getting tired of opening/closing for jotting down small notes. Are there any T|T owners that still like the slider?

I think I'm done with moving parts on a PDA, unless it's to open the screen, at least for now.

Jim

I would like to see all the functionality of the T/T... PLUS the 320x480 screen with virtual grafitti... PLUS more memory... PLUS a thinner/sleaker
form factor and NO slider. That would be a great PDA!

PS: did I mention Virtual Grafitti, NO Slider, and SLIMMER Design?... ;-)

But hey, thats just my .02 cents!

I rarely open the slider, because OKey and NewPen cover 99% of my input requirements into the T|T. I've even written pages of notes without opening it once. I am not the biggest fan of the slider, however, I *LOVE* how much more compact it gets when closed. That will be the big disappointment for me if the slider disappears.

Maybe they should make two models, one with the slider and one without?

But, of course, by then, every CLIE will have the screen too.

The slider is useful because it allows the unit to be shorter without requiring smaller buttons (like the nearly unusable up/down button on some T-series Clies).

Those are mutually contradictory goals. VG works much better on a hires+ display than on a square display. A hires+ display requires more battery power, which given similar battery technology requires a thicker case for the same battery life, not a slimmer one.

For the slimmest handhelds with good battery life, Palm needs to go back to putting a lowres (160x160) square display on an OS5, or preferably an OS6 model with native ARM apps.

Have you ever tried the Sony NX60? Its cheaper now.
Try carrying it arround?, It does not fit confortable in your pocket. Even if it did not have the thumboard underneath, and it would be thinner, it still is Too long to carry in your pocket or a small purse.

I for one, cannot wait for a product like this for its compactness. I do not see why openinig and closing the slider, should be a problem. They are software programs that can help that. As people already mentioned.

I remember when it came out, every one was all 'UHHH Ahh' about it. What happened? Why do you want the form factor of the M505? Once you use a 480 x 320 HR+ screen with colapsable graffitti, you do not (DO NOT) want to go bact to 320 x 320.

So this sounds perfect for me. When I bought my Sharp Zaurus, that was one of the things I love about it. The sliding thumboard. I do not presently owe a TT because of the screen size.

Former Owner of: MobilePro 780, Clie S300, M505, Clie T615, Zaurus 550, Clie T665

Foo said: "Yes, but they will all be high priced."

Doubt it. Go look at the prices for the SJ/SLs -- whatever those Esses are in CompUSA. They are cheeep. I'd go for one *except* I just cannot take that stylus -- and I can't have a stylus that doesn't park in the PDA because it'd be the first thing I'd lose.

What was wrong with the TT buttons?

I hope Palm leaked these to get a feel. Bring back the normal buttons. And the sliders of the screen is kinda goofy. I'd want my apps to run in full mode whenever possible.

I've never used a Tungsten T. Does the slider "lock" in the open position?

-- Fammy

The machine looks nice. Hope it's real, and not too far away from release. I could be swayed from Sony...

-James.

I don't understand that, either. Unless Palm SG is so hooked on the "People use it mainly to *view* information" idea.

I guess thats the reasoning but that still doesn't make alot of sense... won't people want to *view* more information with the *entire* highres screen.

BUT, even on a T/T I use grafitti alot when I'm only *viewing* information... if I bring up the address book, and I'm looking for "Brian Jones"... I scribble a "J" and voila I'm already there. I use grafiti EVERY time I look up an addressbook entry. Or you can even write the 1st letter of an app name in the app launcher to go straight to the app you want. I use grafiti for "navigation" as well as "data entry".

If the Zire had highres, VG, AND it could record and playback sound then I would switch in a second!

my .02 cents!
Eric

Look at the slid out view with the VG visible. Look at the bottom bar (which reminds me of the one I saw at the bottom of the NX series). Lower right corner, there's a downward pointing arrow, which, if they follow common sense UI guidelines, seems like it would shrink the VG area to me.

-jeremy

So the buttons can be made bigger obviously, and without making the unit too tall to fit in a small pocket. Or did you actually like those teeny buttons they used on some Clie models? The other option is used by the Zire71, a stick instead of a DPad; but some people prefer a DPad.

And yes, I am a proud Mac Geek.

http://tinyurl.com/hfpv

Don't panic. The price is $399.

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My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

SKU 304293 -- retail for $399.

-- you mean the smaller 320x480 screen the UX has, right? That's what I suspect.

What if I'm laying down sideways in bed? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Thanks, robrecht

This however seems to be just the filing for the original Tungsten T:

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...cc_id=O3W550000

And i must agree, the button-layout is horrible, its useless for gaming!

Have fun,
McTrinsic

Good one! I had to look it up. Yes, Palm seems to not be resting on their laurels finally.

If I was Palm this would be the perfect place for feedback on future designs.

Remember only a month or so ago we saw pictures of the T2 and now it's here. Those pictures came from China as well. I wonder if it's already in production for release in early 2004.

I fear the T2 is already doomed. I'm definitely going to pass on it and wait for the T3. What's six more months?

quote

Yes and remember those so-called photoshop experts who all claimed the pics of the T2 were fake? Some of them are now saying the T3 pics are fake-Those guys are slow learners in my book.
I wish Palm were smart enough to do their market research on these boards. I know Sony does. But yes
the shine is off the T2 now. Frankly I wouldn't pay much more than $299 for the T2 knowing what else is out there and/or comming soon. At $399 for it I would rather wait till the end of the year and get a T3 or see what Sony has out then.

What make you think there won't be a steep price differential between two new models to ensure that neither dooms the other? I think it's called market segmentation.

With this device your hands are pretty much on top of each other.

There's a reason the buttons should be spaced out.

-Kevin Crossman

As for this model, the slider would be pretty useless. The other day I was at the Apple Store, playing with the current TT, and I accidently closed the slider on my finger. It took a nice chunk of skin with it. I should have sued. Moving parts of a PDA is just as poor form as having a thumb board IMO.

Zire is the savoir. I believe it was a month ago that a rumor of two new devices from Palm (one Tungsten, one Zire) was released. If this is the Tungsten they were hinting at, a Zire is not far off. We can only hope that the zire will have VG.

But this will do!

Nevertheless, I am still greatly fond of the TT form factor (although I'm not at all crazy about the slider. Never trust moving parts, they wear out). As long as Palm doesn't pull a Sony and price this up in the clouds, and try to milk Palm users for all their worth, I will be more than happy with the TT3.

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My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

Zire 71. But it isn't quite the PDA for me, hence my interest in T2...and now T3.

As for the Dell, it isn't my main PDA. I chose it because of the insanely low price ($175), and I wanted to play around with PPC and see how the other half lived.

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My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

Who on earth will buy the T2?? It will be interesting to see how Palm adapts the price. 399 US is way to much.

OKay??? Now go back to your Palm Pilot!!

:) sorry guys I had to do it..

All of four days!

Obviously an *amateur* when it comes to spelling. As well as punctuation. Excellent in BS, though:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=5684#81672

On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_2_sm.jpg the slider is open, but closed it would cover one of the 3 COLUMS of icons.

I'm talking about the HARDWARE: Look hov mutch the slider covers:

On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_1_sm.jpg it wouldn't even cover the graffitti area whan CLOSED.

On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_2_sm.jpg it dosen't even show the grafitti-area when OPEN!

The 'allways visible' area of the screen i noticeably LARGER on the http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_1_sm.jpg picture.

/Rob

Your eye is correct but the Graffiti area slides down and the PalmBar comes up when the slider is closed. I pointed this out in another post above. So, the Graffiti area is actually covered.

I still can't get to the photos at the Chinese site. Must have been pulled. Palm works fast! Good thing we had all weekend!