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Comments on: Rumor: Tungsten T3 with 320x480 Screen

Pictures and a few details of a possible Tungsten T3 have been posted to a tech website in China. The pictures show a possible Palm Tungsten model with a slider design and a 320x480 pixel high res+ screen and Bluetooth.
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It's cool...

bchiu @ 7/18/2003 11:04:16 AM #
Only Wifi missing... otherwise it would be the perfect Palm (for me).

RE: It's cool...
xelnaga8080 @ 7/18/2003 11:08:07 AM #
Have to agree, only missing Wi-Fi. If its a fake, it is a pretty good one. This one smells real.

"Life is a Cookie"
RE: It's cool...
Massman82 @ 7/18/2003 11:13:33 AM #
Almost positive this one is real, though I think it is a long way off if the T2 hasn't been released yet.

Clie NX60 - emailMassman82@PDArcade.com/email
RE: It's cool...
twizza @ 7/18/2003 11:15:08 AM #
Massman82
This looks to indeed be real. But knowing PalmSG. We either wont see it until March (next product run) or we will see this rushed to production by the time right after the holiday season. Usually Palm releases in Latewinter/spring and mid-fall. if they can work the kinks out before that latewinter/early spring time then we really could see PalmSG trump Sony (again? I consider the Z71 a trump)

RE: It's cool...
JohnKes @ 7/18/2003 11:17:34 AM #
Looks real! I could not see any pixel discontinuities that would indicate Photoshopping.

RE: It's cool...
a3 @ 7/18/2003 11:55:02 AM #
Well IMHO this is the reason why the T2 is delayed... this is not the T3, it is the revamped T2

_______________________________________
Already a Tapwave's Helix fan.
RE: It's cool...
Knives78 @ 7/18/2003 12:16:33 PM #
Maybe by next March the Bluetooth will change to Wi-Fi *quickly offers prayer to Tech Gods*

RE: It's cool...
kev @ 7/18/2003 12:19:39 PM #
well, they'd have to call it T3, what with the movie and all...

RE: It's cool...
kriegsfalke @ 7/18/2003 2:07:44 PM #
I don't need WiFi on al PDA. For me Bluetoot is more important in my work.
It would be nice if Sandisk would get the SD-Card on the Market.

RE: It's cool...
Lidocaineus @ 7/18/2003 3:55:37 PM #
Amen to that Krieg! I think people who lament over WiFi on PDAs have never actually used BT and WiFi on the same device; I have, and BT always seems better suited to whatever task at hand, mostly because I'm *never* near a WiFi access point when I'm actually using the PDA in a environment where I'd pull it out!

I never understood the WiFi fanatics on PDAs. If you want to check your mail with WiFi, you are most likely in a place with tons of computers. If you want to surf the web with WiFi, again, you're most likely in a place full of computers. Want to check your email on the road with WiFi and... whoops. Well I guess you could always pull over at a nearby Starbucks and sit in the cafe while I'm zooming past you in a car accessing an IMAP server over BT through a GPRS radio.

In fact, I so rarely use WiFi on any PDA with it available that in my next PDA purchase (whenever that is), WiFi will not be a requirement in the least.

RE: It's cool...
SteveNYC @ 7/18/2003 6:16:13 PM #
I agree completely. I've used Wifi on my Handera 330 and while it was interesting, I stopped using it because it was complete overkill.

Who's truely going to use that level of speed on a PDA? It's certainly not worth the power demands that WiFi makes. Sure, if I were downloading attachments, the speed of WiFi would be welcome, but the processor speed on most PDAs can't handle that kind of data flow. I think Wi-Fi in the consumer PDA market is completely hype. I work in an MIS shop and have a couple of guys that have Toshiba PDAs with WiFi built-in and both say they hardly use it.

My complaint would be more along the lines that there are no bluetooth cell phones in the CDMA market. Sony-Ericsson was going to come out with the T608 for Sprint and it was rumored that a "rev. 2" version of the T606 for Verizon might have Bluetooth. But with Sony-Ericsson leaving the CDMA market entirely, both are in doubt.

But this T3 looks so sweet. It looks like they reallyt did it right.

RE: It's cool...
Selbstlade @ 7/19/2003 1:34:00 AM #
"I never understood the WiFi fanatics on PDAs. If you want to check your mail with WiFi, you are most likely in a place with tons of computers. If you want to surf the web with WiFi, again, you're most likely in a place full of computers."

I guess you're not a college student nor do you work at a company who's campus is wifi saturated? In college environments, wifi coverage areas are often set up in libraries, open lawns, student unions. Why walk into a computer lab (assuming one is nearby and open) just to check your email? Furthermore, privacy is not guaranteed when you're operating on a public terminal. That's why many students own wifi notebooks (For example you can then VPN to your own private network). In a company environment, just because computers exist in a wifi coverage area doesn't mean you can walk into someone's office or cube and use it.

Selbstlade

-----

Palm Professional, Palm IIIx, Cassiopeia E-105, Sony Clie SJ-10, Palm Zire 71.

RE: It's cool...
Lidocaineus @ 7/19/2003 4:21:45 AM #
I was a college student and have since graduated recently, and having actually *deployed* some of the network infrastructure while there, I know plenty about campus connectivity. However, give me an application that WiFi works better for on a PDA versus Bluetooth.

What you are clearly referring to is portability with your laptop, not portability with your PDA, just like I was comparing in the original post. When I say that when you're in a WiFi spot and there are tons of computers around, usually that means you can use one of them. If for some reason you can't, how is a PDA going to replace the functionality of a computer? And what exactly does that have to do with anything WiFi / BT related? My point was that WiFi does work on PDAs, but it's inherently limiting since PDAs themselves are so highly mobile and are very often in places where WiFi is nowhere to be found.

Tell me, what is the difference between using WiFi or BT to check your mail once you have it all set up properly? Or look up an address? Or do some light web surfing? There is none, on a PDA. The only difference is that with BT, you are the access point. You can leave campus and not break the connection. WiFi is constrained to bubbles. Perhaps large bubbles (such as the case with certain campuses), but do you live in one completely, all the time?

I'll be the first to admit that there are some hurdles prior, such as proper data service plans and a connectivity device, but after that, bluetooth is a much more complete solution to what a PDA's functions are. It's strange; WiFi should be the niche device for PDAs, while BT should be more of the standard, but people seem to have it backwards in their heads. I can only attribute this to (again)

1 - lack of experience with BT
2 - the pervasivness of WiFi

I have serious doubts about your experience with BT, because, as another person posted, those who have used both have realized that WiFi on a PDA is not all that useful once the uber-factor has worn off, even in very well covered areas. What you do on a PDA is very different from what you do on a desktop or notebook, and 99%of those functions do not require high bandwidth or constant connections. What they do need is access when you need it, at a moment's notice. WiFi cannot always provide that.

And one more time, I'll say it; WiFi on a PDA is *not* a negative, it just shouldn't be as important as people are making it out to be, unless you only use your PDA for TCP/IP connectivity (BT is much more than that) and not PIM functions (such as sending phone numbers to be dialed to your phone), you only use your PDA in WiFi access areas, and you never use your PDA for connectivity anywhere else.

RE: It's cool...
El Barto @ 7/19/2003 6:49:33 AM #
I also completely agree with Lidocaineus.
I am living in Berlin and here we have complete GPRS coverage in the subway. So I am using my m505 in conjunction with a T68i and a BT SD-card e.g. to read the news via AvantGo.

Very nice! And Wi-Fi is not missing.
RAMdŽd @ 7/19/2003 1:56:08 PM #
Yes, there are some who would really like to have it.

But give me Bluetooth. WF has too many penalties for most of us. Let it come on an SD card or a drifferent model. Most buyers of most PDAs will never miss WF, so let Palm and others design a separate one for them.

Can't wait to see if this makes it to market.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: It's cool...
mikecane @ 7/19/2003 7:53:40 PM #
BT requires a BTed cellphone. Some of us (ahem, me!) *hate* cellphones. Hence, WiFi is for us. By the time this appears, I expect at least two WiFi SD cards to be on sale. So the point is moot.

So WHERE's the WiFi?!
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 9:59:00 AM #
Given the delay of the WiFi SD cards, it seems to me Enfora should have this OUT NOW and rake in the dough!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5213

RE: It's cool...
mj6798 @ 7/20/2003 1:39:58 PM #
Maybe by next March the Bluetooth will change to Wi-Fi *quickly offers prayer to Tech Gods*

God, I hope not. WiFi is useless for me on a handheld--when I'm in range of an AP, I usually have a real computer around, and WiFi sucks battery power.

Bluetooth is perfect for hotsyncing, for talking to a cell phone, and for gaming. Bluetooth is also far easier to set up. And if you want to use it like WiFi, there are cheap Bluetooth/Ethernet access points out there.

RE: It's cool...
xelnaga8080 @ 7/20/2003 10:46:10 PM #
I would have to say I would love Wi-Fi. I currently have no location that can service Blue-tooth, and were looking at wi-fi for our network(Students&Teachers with wifi laptops). It is not a speed issue, just the fact that I want access to our network. I personally would love for my PDA to replace my laptop, and wi-fi would be a step in the right direction. I would settle for a wi-fi SD Card however. I currently own a Tungsten T. I can see the potential of Bluetooth, but wi-fi would be better in my situation and don't wont the bulk of a Tungsten C, plus I want sterio. Just a thought. Bluetooth is cool, just can't use it. I could definately use wi-fi.

"Life is a Cookie"
RE: It's cool...
kriegsfalke @ 7/21/2003 6:33:20 AM #
Don't mess it up. Wifi is not a competitor for bluetooth. Also Bluetooth is not a competitior for Wifi.
Both wireless Networks have their goal. Wifi is great if you are in most time near a AccessPoint. But it is useless if you are on the road and need to check your e-mails, read the news or to write SMS. This is the right place for bluetooth.
I think Sony follows the right way with the UX50/40 Handhelds. Just Bluetooth for the People who don't need Bluetooth an Both for the Tech-Junkies ;-)

Wi-Fi and BT are indeed competitors...
RAMdŽd @ 7/21/2003 2:08:40 PM #
...not for function, but for space.

W-Fless PDAs certainly outsell those with W-F, and BT enable PDAs probably outsell W-Fless as well.

I don't want to pay size or cost penalties for W-F, but I do find BT to be very useful.

So make the PDA for the majority, and a separate version (as they have with the W and C.

When the day finally does come that there are no penalties for including it, then by all means, toss it in.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: It's cool...
atrizzah @ 7/21/2003 7:50:15 PM #
Just because some of you dont want WiFi doesn't mean its useless to everyone. I'm planning on getting a Tungsten C, because we have plenty of WiFi coverage at my college. Why do I want it? Because I dont want to have to lug a laptop around campus just to check email, visit websites and such. Ideally, I'd also like to be able to access my computers files through FTP while I'm around campus so I can edit documents and do programming anywhere on campus.

To me your beloved Bluetooth is useless. I dont own any Bluetooth enabled devices. In fact I've never even seen one. I'm not bashing Bluetooth, I love the idea. I'm just trying to make the point that there's no reason for you to bash WiFi.

Personally, I'd favor something like the C, but with Bluetooth as well, in case I find a good use for it.

Peace Out
Alan

RE: It's cool...
alanjrobertson @ 7/22/2003 5:56:15 AM #
I think your viewpoint in part depends on where you live. From what I've seen/read, it appears that WiFi has taken off to a massive extent in the USA, with widespread coverage in businesses, colleges, and shops (eg Starbucks). Bluetooth on the other hand has a much smaller market penetration, mainly due to the prevalence of CDMA mobiles.

In Europe on the other hand, WiFi has been slower taking off (there's certainly no coverage anywhere at my university), whereas mobile use is widespread - a vast percentage of the population own one (>95% of students I would guess) and they're all GSM mobiles. Many GSM mobiles now come with Bluetooth connectivity built-in, therefore for European users it's arguably more useful to have a PDA with BT rather than WiFi.

However, as others have already mentioned it's not a competition between the two standards - they've been designed for different uses. In view of the increasing power of PDAs though, lots of people use them at times as a laptop replacement - therefore they are fulfilling two different roles and probably need to have both WiFi and BT connectivity.

Cheers

Alan

RE: It's cool...
pbratland @ 7/27/2003 11:56:31 PM #
I get a great deal of use and functionality out on my Tungsten C with WiFi, because when I do travel I carry a small AP from Dlink and and can finally do my email on the road, I just plug into one of my customers network connections and I don't even need to wait for my laptop to boot. Bluetooth is nice if you are do little text emails, but WiFi is required for Attachments and large emails, it is also great for doing a sync. Can't do that very quickly with Bluetooth, at office or on the go.

RE: It's cool...
dieter_dk @ 8/17/2003 8:07:00 PM #
I use a Tungsten T with bluetooth conectivity to various gadgets - and in my opinion, the WiFi unit and the T fit two different categories. Which is probably why Palm chose to make and market them as such. The TT with bluetooth is ideal for road warriors, connecting to GSM/GPRS for data, Bluetooth GPS units, etc. Look at http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4642

The Tungsten C fits the bill for campus type usage, wharehousing, etc. - kind of like a laptop replacement (which is why it comes with a keyboard).

Of course it would be smart with both in one unit - then we could have the best of both worlds - but bluetooth and WiFi would still serve two different purposes!



Why slider now?

gidora @ 7/18/2003 11:10:49 AM #
Let's lose the slider. With the bigger screen, it makes less sense to have a compact "alter ego" that you constantly have to bust out of.
RE: Why slider now?
jjsoh @ 7/18/2003 11:34:22 AM #
Whether this rumor is real or not, I agree. (But I'm hoping that it is a fake.)

Although I love my Tungsten|T and how the slider gives it a more compact feel, but after daily use since the day I purchased it (at launch), I'm getting tired of opening/closing for jotting down small notes. Are there any T|T owners that still like the slider?

I think I'm done with moving parts on a PDA, unless it's to open the screen, at least for now.

Jim

RE: Why slider now?
stellaboy @ 7/18/2003 11:53:52 AM #
go to palmgear.com and get graffiti anywhere, you'll never need the slider again. it's the best ap for the tt.

RE: Why slider now?
cmoney @ 7/18/2003 11:56:29 AM #
I like the slider. Or rather, I like having the smaller form factor that the slider enables. I have Graffiti anywhere and it's great for quick notes. Mostly though, I use the TT for viewing information that I enter or sync through a computer, so I don't find myself opening the slider much at all since I bought it.

RE: Why slider now?
ogun7 @ 7/18/2003 12:18:21 PM #
I agree let's loose the slider. Having to open and close the slider can get aggravating, they should ol allowed the T|T to be thinner, like the V or m500 series. palm just doesn't have any continuity in its industrial design. They need to hire Jonathan Ives over at Apple!!

RE: Why slider now?
flevy @ 7/18/2003 12:34:29 PM #
Ditto. Fit this machinery in to a Palm V-like form factor and it's what I have been waiting for. While that form factor doesn't work for a unit with a camera or a keyboard it should work well here.

RE: Why slider now?
TTrules @ 7/18/2003 12:37:46 PM #
I owne a TT, and wish that it did not have the slider. I get tired of opening and closing it all day long. If the new TT has a new 320x480 screen I hope that it is just a fixed display, no annoying sliders!

Trade the Slider for a Slimmer Design
CADJedi @ 7/18/2003 12:43:43 PM #
Frankly the novelty of the slider has worn off for me.
Basically everytime I use my T/T I NEED the grafitti area whether is entering data or just for navigation... I don't need the extra step of
sliding it open EVERY time!

I would like to see all the functionality of the T/T... PLUS the 320x480 screen with virtual grafitti... PLUS more memory... PLUS a thinner/sleaker
form factor and NO slider. That would be a great PDA!

PS: did I mention Virtual Grafitti, NO Slider, and SLIMMER Design?... ;-)

But hey, thats just my .02 cents!


RE: Why slider now?
bkirchhoff @ 7/18/2003 12:48:18 PM #
I also agree that we need to loose the slider. That being said... I really like the Blackberry style keyboard available in the Tungsten C. The single biggest surprise with my Tungsten T has been how much I utilize the SMS Messaging capability in conjunction with my T68i (however scratching out a text message during a meeting with Graffiti is anything but subtle). I was really hoping that a future Palm device would offer the Tungsten C form factor with Bluetooth & Wi-Fi combined.

RE: Why slider now?
maven @ 7/18/2003 1:53:22 PM #
Ok, I don't own a T|T, so don't flame me... but if you don't like sliding your unit open each time you want to use it, whats to prevent you from ALWAYS leaving it open?

RE: Why slider now?
gidora @ 7/18/2003 2:21:09 PM #
Why not leave it open all the time? Cause it looks incredibly dorkey. I have no less than 4 hacks installed to make the slider less obtrusive on my TT.
1. NewPen - freeware graffitti anywhere
2. SlideFree - to access silkscreened buttons
3. OKey - to access drop down menus
4. EZ KB - for instant keyboard access
But they don't all work together nicely and it is a hassle in the end. Let's not even get into cases and accessories. There's a cottage industry out there dealing with the hasssles of the sliding mechanism.

RE: Why slider now?
Lidocaineus @ 7/18/2003 4:02:12 PM #
I guess I'll be the only one to state, "Who cares?" :P

I rarely open the slider, because OKey and NewPen cover 99% of my input requirements into the T|T. I've even written pages of notes without opening it once. I am not the biggest fan of the slider, however, I *LOVE* how much more compact it gets when closed. That will be the big disappointment for me if the slider disappears.

Maybe they should make two models, one with the slider and one without?

RE: Why slider now?
statik @ 7/18/2003 4:11:50 PM #
Take a close look at the size of the screen in open mode. It looks like all of the softkey buttons will still visible, even when you have the slider closed.

Coupled with G2, this meens there would be no need to open the TT slider at all unless you need the extra real estate.

I love it!

RE: Why slider now?
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:34:39 PM #
The slider will be gone next year when the *Zire* gets that screen.

But, of course, by then, every CLIE will have the screen too.

RE: Why slider now?
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 4:38:26 PM #
This deserves to be repeated:

"I rarely open the slider, because OKey and NewPen cover 99% of my input requirements into the T|T. I've even written pages of notes without opening it once. I am not the biggest fan of the slider, however, I *LOVE* how much more compact it gets when closed. That will be the big disappointment for me if the slider disappears."

Palm, don't listen to all the whiners, bring the T3 to market as quickly as you can. Do you need beta testers?

Thanks, robrecht

RE: Why slider now?
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 4:39:19 PM #
If you don't like the smaller size that a closed slider allows, why not just glue (or tape) your TT open? Maybe there's even a market for a nice metal clip that fits into the TT's side gaps to hold the slider open?

The slider is useful because it allows the unit to be shorter without requiring smaller buttons (like the nearly unusable up/down button on some T-series Clies).

RE: Why slider now?
QDeath @ 7/18/2003 4:43:14 PM #
"Palm, don't listen to all the whiners, bring the T3 to market as quickly as you can. Do you need beta testers?"

I'm with you! I'd like this ASAP, I'd be glad to beta test it!

RE: Trade the Slider for a Slimmer Design
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 4:52:42 PM #
someone wrote:
> did I mention Virtual Grafitti, ... and SLIMMER Design?

Those are mutually contradictory goals. VG works much better on a hires+ display than on a square display. A hires+ display requires more battery power, which given similar battery technology requires a thicker case for the same battery life, not a slimmer one.

For the slimmest handhelds with good battery life, Palm needs to go back to putting a lowres (160x160) square display on an OS5, or preferably an OS6 model with native ARM apps.

RE: Why slider now?
CADJedi @ 7/18/2003 5:11:18 PM #
hotpaw4 wrote:
> Those are mutually contradictory goals. VG works
> much better on a hires+ display than on a square
> display. A hires+ display requires more battery
> power, which given similar battery technology
> requires a thicker case for the same battery life,
> not a slimmer one.

Thats silly... Are you saying it would be impossible for Palm to make a unit with a highres screen & VG smaller than a T/T??

I just handled an IPAQ in a store last weekend that had both those features and WAS indeed smaller than my T/T.

I'm confident that Palm can make a svelt M515 like design with highress and VG... IF they put their minds to it!

Eric

RE: Why slider now?
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 8:32:42 PM #
The IPaq has a smaller display in term of pixels than a TT. 25% smaller, 25% less pixels to refresh, thus it can use a slightly smaller battery for similar battery life.
RE: Why slider now?
Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 10:31:52 PM #
Mike Cane said: "But, of course, by then, every CLIE will have the screen too."

Yes, but they will all be high priced.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: Why slider now?
maddie @ 7/19/2003 8:53:15 AM #
For all of you complaining about the slider.

Have you ever tried the Sony NX60? Its cheaper now.
Try carrying it arround?, It does not fit confortable in your pocket. Even if it did not have the thumboard underneath, and it would be thinner, it still is Too long to carry in your pocket or a small purse.

I for one, cannot wait for a product like this for its compactness. I do not see why openinig and closing the slider, should be a problem. They are software programs that can help that. As people already mentioned.

I remember when it came out, every one was all 'UHHH Ahh' about it. What happened? Why do you want the form factor of the M505? Once you use a 480 x 320 HR+ screen with colapsable graffitti, you do not (DO NOT) want to go bact to 320 x 320.

So this sounds perfect for me. When I bought my Sharp Zaurus, that was one of the things I love about it. The sliding thumboard. I do not presently owe a TT because of the screen size.

Former Owner of: MobilePro 780, Clie S300, M505, Clie T615, Zaurus 550, Clie T665

Don't 'loose' the slider. But lose the slider only if...
RAMdŽd @ 7/19/2003 2:03:32 PM #
...this gives the T|T the same form factor as the Palm V.

Otherwise I'll keep it as it. I haven't had a chance to use one outdoors, but I want a screen I can read in daylight.

I have an iPAQ, and I'm not impressed.. The screen is nice *indoors*, but tough to read outside. And there is really nothing else about a PPC that would make me recommend one to anybody.

So I'm wating for T|T 2.5.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Why slider now?
mikecane @ 7/19/2003 7:56:10 PM #
I said: "But, of course, by then, every CLIE will have the screen too."

Foo said: "Yes, but they will all be high priced."

Doubt it. Go look at the prices for the SJ/SLs -- whatever those Esses are in CompUSA. They are cheeep. I'd go for one *except* I just cannot take that stylus -- and I can't have a stylus that doesn't park in the PDA because it'd be the first thing I'd lose.



RE: Why slider now?
agchang @ 7/19/2003 11:05:38 PM #
My vote is for the slider for the compactness it offers. I use Jot, TextPlus, and SlideFree which as for others eliminates the need to use the slider to expose the Graffiti area. With KeyContacts as part of KeySuite, I can the Dpad to look any address without using the slider to exposing the Graffiti area. Most launchers allow to go through app categories and select apps with the Dpad.

RE: Why slider now?
plindort @ 7/21/2003 5:13:35 AM #
the rumored tt3 would be on os 5.2, the same for the tungsten c and zire71, the built-in character recognition using the screen and not the graffiti area is much better than graffiti anywhere, so no need to open the slider often. Still i love the slider because it makes my TT compact and minute

RE: Why slider now?
sr @ 7/21/2003 5:10:34 PM #
I don't understand why you would buy T|T if you don't like the slider - the slider is there to make the unit smaller for those of us who want a small unit. If you want a unit without a slider, you obviosly don't care that much about the size of the unit when stored, so why don't you just pick one of the Sony units with VG, they have plenty to choose from?

RE: Why slider now?
Palm101 @ 7/24/2003 3:35:43 PM #
Yup, quick release date for me too.
As for beta testing, nice idea, but I don't think so guys. Palm has enough leaks already. *cough*this article*cough* ;)

RE: Why slider now?
DavisC @ 7/25/2003 1:15:23 PM #
I bought the TT for the resolution, not the form factor. I had an M515, and that form factor is perfect for me. I am so sick of constantly opening and shutting the slider. I would way rather have the extra screen real estate and have that form factor of the old "V". Bring it on!

RE: Why slider now?
swinginjonny @ 8/18/2003 12:15:36 PM #
Slider, shmeider... I want to know if those CRAPPY buttons are the real thing! I always bought Palm because it's always been game-friendly. I think this rumored T3 could be the handheld I've waited for my whole life (Okay, that's a slight exaggeration) and they might just mess up the one thing they've always done RIGHT!?!!? I switched to a PPC for the great games but nothing else works right on the piece of crap so I bought a Tungsten T. I miss the screen real estate and the really cool games that the PPC had. Palm, please don't tell me that you're going to come SOOOO close and still miss.

(Self-confessed Palm Geek)

Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)

Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 11:14:55 AM #
I say it's a fake. The button layout in particular looks very artificial. I can't see Palm SG developing something this ugly.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
Buttons
Fammy @ 7/18/2003 11:41:16 AM #
The buttons are terrible! It's like the original Zire.

What was wrong with the TT buttons?

I hope Palm leaked these to get a feel. Bring back the normal buttons. And the sliders of the screen is kinda goofy. I'd want my apps to run in full mode whenever possible.

I've never used a Tungsten T. Does the slider "lock" in the open position?

-- Fammy

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
epall @ 7/18/2003 11:47:02 AM #
I'd have to say it's a fake, playing to our fantasies. Let's not get our hopes up (again). If it is real, and under $500, it will be killer.

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
Origen @ 7/18/2003 11:49:39 AM #
Not a fake. Palm is about to release a new product, and are just days away. Can't promise that this is it though. They did a great job keeping it under wraps.

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
Tungsten @ 7/18/2003 11:58:29 AM #
It's real. If you think it's fake, the burden of proof (or disproof) is on you.

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
jamesgood72 @ 7/18/2003 12:04:35 PM #
Maybe the button layout looks weird because it has to work in both landscape and portrait modes. Maybe that grouping has less bias to portrait mode.

The machine looks nice. Hope it's real, and not too far away from release. I could be swayed from Sony...

-James.

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 12:21:20 PM #
Quote: "Not a fake. Palm is about to release a new product, and are just days away. Can't promise that this is it though. They did a great job keeping it under wraps."

No, the Tungsten T2 is going to be released next week, not this thing. If it were, it would have shown up in the retail channel by now, just as the TT2 already has.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
indesman @ 7/18/2003 12:52:19 PM #
I think it is a fake. If you look at the screen in landscape mode it appears to have backlight variations coming from the left side. This makes it look like someone took a screen shot and rotated it to fit horizontally. Besides, 320 x 480 just doesn't make sense with a slider.

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
aardvarko @ 7/18/2003 2:32:28 PM #
On most screens (m5x, Sony NX/NR/NZ/etc.), the backlights are placed at the top and bottom of the screen (portrait orientation), so having it be at the left in landscape makes perfect sense.

-aardvarko
webmaster at aardvarko dot com
http://aardvarko.com
RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
Gremmie @ 7/18/2003 3:16:29 PM #
Good Lord, lets not listen to historical reason, rarely have these devices turn out to be fake (other than iWalk; T2 and this is still outstanding). Remember all those who said TT (Oslo at the time) was fake?

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
usa1 @ 7/18/2003 3:47:29 PM #
I say this is a set of fake pictures. Look at the pictures and notice that the screen look rectagular when the unit is slid closed. The screen should look more squarish. The two pictures that show the unit slid open also are inconsistent. The one that shows in landscape mode makes the screen look shorter than the picture that show it in portait mode. The picture of the open unit in portait mode makes the screen look MUCH bigger (longer) than the open one in landscape.

I could have been had if it weren't for the odd out of propotation picture in landscape.

Besides what sense does it make to have VG and have a slider to cover it up. What is the possible advantage of this?

Mark

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:36:30 PM #
>>>Besides what sense does it make to have VG and have a slider to cover it up. What is the possible advantage of this?

I don't understand that, either. Unless Palm SG is so hooked on the "People use it mainly to *view* information" idea.

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:37:23 PM #
You know, even then it still doesn't make sense! Wouldn't you want to open the slider and collapse the Graffiti area to get more lines to view?!

Or, say, to see more of a map?

Or a full-screen picture?

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
CADJedi @ 7/18/2003 5:19:04 PM #
>> I don't understand that, either. Unless Palm SG is
>> so hooked on the "People use it mainly to *view*
>> information" idea.

I guess thats the reasoning but that still doesn't make alot of sense... won't people want to *view* more information with the *entire* highres screen.

BUT, even on a T/T I use grafitti alot when I'm only *viewing* information... if I bring up the address book, and I'm looking for "Brian Jones"... I scribble a "J" and voila I'm already there. I use grafiti EVERY time I look up an addressbook entry. Or you can even write the 1st letter of an app name in the app launcher to go straight to the app you want. I use grafiti for "navigation" as well as "data entry".

If the Zire had highres, VG, AND it could record and playback sound then I would switch in a second!

my .02 cents!
Eric

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
cow4263 @ 7/18/2003 6:49:41 PM #
If you had a Tungsten T, you would know that you can use the Navigator to up \ down scroll to J. Its very quick and handy, I think it works great.

The primary reason I got the TT was because of the compact usable design, all thanks to the slider.

Long live the slider!

(I do think virtual graffiti and OKey should have been installed by default)

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
RSC @ 7/18/2003 8:34:29 PM #
I think it (the slider) only makes sense for carrying it (in your pocket, on your belt, in your purse, whatever) because then the smaller, more compact size is compelling and you're not looking at the screen anyway. (plus it's good on spec comparisons with the competition!) ;)

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 10:33:10 PM #
Hey, I agree a slider doesn't make much sense on a full screen design. But at this point, I am soooooooo desperate for a VG screen in a non-clamshell form factor I'll take anything!!! Hell, I don't care if the damn thing makes farting sounds when closing the slider. As long as I get the PalmOS device I have longed for, and it's reasonably priced (hello Sony, are you listening), I'll take it. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Let us all join hands in prayer..."PLEASE, DEAR LORD! LET THIS BE REAL!!!!". Amen.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
robrecht @ 7/19/2003 7:33:33 AM #
Believing it's fake and praying publicly that it's real. See how desperate Palm OS users have become!

Thanks, robrecht
RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
mikecane @ 7/19/2003 7:58:59 PM #
Well, I said it was real (lower in the thread). I'd put up with the slider for that 320x480 screen *and*

1) 3rd party audio players (none for CLIE!)
2) great stylus (none with CLIE!)
3) thicker fonts (icky patch for CLIE!)
4) better post-sale support (NONE for CLIE!)
5) Universal Connector (CLIE? hahaha!)

-- but what worries me is that photo of the Golden Gate Bridge at the Chinese site. Er, I hope this screen will be better at reds than the original TT screen is...

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
MrBond @ 7/19/2003 9:14:01 PM #
"I guess thats the reasoning but that still doesn't make alot of sense... won't people want to *view* more information with the *entire* highres screen."

Look at the slid out view with the VG visible. Look at the bottom bar (which reminds me of the one I saw at the bottom of the NX series). Lower right corner, there's a downward pointing arrow, which, if they follow common sense UI guidelines, seems like it would shrink the VG area to me.

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:06:39 AM #
>>>Look at the slid out view with the VG visible. Look at the bottom bar (which reminds me of the one I saw at the bottom of the NX series). Lower right corner, there's a downward pointing arrow, which, if they follow common sense UI guidelines, seems like it would shrink the VG area to me.

Yes, that's self-evident. Re-read what I wrote. I was making a different point.

About that Soft Graffiti area -- god, I hope it's skinnable. That is just too plain!

And I hope TealScript will work -- I won't put up with that Abomination and Work of the Devil and his Lawyers: Graffiti 2!

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
jgb9348 @ 7/21/2003 10:09:53 AM #
I can't believe no one mentioned this....Do you see the time on the top and on the bottom, but in different formats? The top (normal for Palm) time is in 24 hour format, while the bottom (VG area) is in 12 hour format. Kind off odd, don't you think? In addition, why would you want this information twice? I understand that it's normal to have it down there with VG, but if this were real, I don't think both would be on the screen--ESPECIALLY in different formats.

-jeremy

RE: Tungsten P (Photoshop edition)
mikecane @ 7/21/2003 7:06:59 PM #
Time in two places in two different formats: because they can do it?

My guess would be that a tap on the time in the "PalmBar" will toggle the date. Or so I hope...

I also hope the whole "PalmBar" is pluggable. Let me remove the time and put in something else., for example.

It's NOT cool...

PalmDoc @ 7/18/2003 11:11:18 AM #
Yes, 320x480 is great, virtual grafitti is great, and it's about time that we see that screen size and resolution in a non-clamshell device (Garmin device not withstanding), but...

Why hide the extra screen real estate behind that silly sliding mechanism? Palm has already confirmed that Tungsten T sales were below expectations, despite its excellent specs (at the time of release). Why, because the form factor is awkward.

Forget the slider, keep the overall shape of the TT when 'opened', keep the new buttons/d-pad, and show off the screen!!

How many 320x480 Sony Clie addicts have been BEGGING for a non-clamshell HiRes+ device. Replacing the 'twist and flip' with a sliding bottom doesn't seem much better to me. The slider in the original TT was to hide the silk screened grafitti area, now it is just hiding the one feature that makes this PDA truly unique as a Palm offering.

IMHO anyway...

RE: It's NOT cool...
kev @ 7/18/2003 12:23:24 PM #
well, i guess the collapsing design makes it tidy when not in use while still providing a great usability feature (d-pad) while open.

RE: It's NOT cool...
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 5:13:53 PM #
someone wrote:
> Why hide the extra screen real estate behind that silly sliding mechanism?

So the buttons can be made bigger obviously, and without making the unit too tall to fit in a small pocket. Or did you actually like those teeny buttons they used on some Clie models? The other option is used by the Zire71, a stick instead of a DPad; but some people prefer a DPad.

RE: It's NOT cool...
Altema @ 7/19/2003 1:20:54 AM #
Doing away with the slider would make the T|T a honker. No other device is as generous with the buttons and their dedicated real estate, and still allows you to put it in your shirt pocket and button the pocket. Down with micro buttons and toothpicks!

PS: I did not like the button layout at first, but then I though of gaming with the thing sideways...

virtual graffiti

bradleyboy @ 7/18/2003 11:16:41 AM #
I know lots of people salivate over this feature, but honestly it's not a priority for me. My graffiti area ends up all scratched up anyhow, and that would reduce the usability of that display area. I'm not saying the extra real estate wouldn't be cool, just that I'm not going out of my way to get that feature.

RE: virtual graffiti
kriegsfalke @ 7/19/2003 2:43:24 AM #
I use my M505 for more that 2 years now and my Graffity Area. This screen Protectors are realy good.

A BIG YES

EnocH @ 7/18/2003 11:17:26 AM #
I have been wishing for this ever since the launch of the Tungsten T. It is the best compromise for size and screen real estate.

Some nay sayers may question the need for the slider, however size is of great many. What was a static waste of space is now more useful. I use the full screen when I wanna real documents and keep it close for a quick check of schedule or contacts. Sweet.

With the UX about to be launch, the T3 seems to be 'not so high end'. Heck we might as well call this a mid-range handheld. Whatever the case, Palm is definately moving faster.

Hopefully i haven't spoken to soon and only see the launch of this device in 6 months time. Isn't the T2 just about to be launch?

----------
God Bless,
EnocH

RE: A BIG YES
RSC @ 7/18/2003 11:41:21 AM #
I agree completely. It's just cool to have a sliding mechanism to make the unit smaller when you don't need the extra screen real estate. It would be even cooler if it had a spring-loaded slider so it would open automatically at the push of a button (like the phones in the original Matrix movie)...

RE: A BIG YES
ogun7 @ 7/18/2003 12:22:03 PM #
I wouldn't mind the slider if the unit wasn't THICKER than the m515. I've owned the V and m515 and my T|T isn't comfortable in a pocket between the weight AND thickness.
the Palm Group needs to hire Apple so they can learn to design elegant AND truly ergonomic products.

And yes, I am a proud Mac Geek.

T2 or T3?

infobhan @ 7/18/2003 11:24:08 AM #
Why does this have to be the Tugnsten T3. The T2 hasn't been released and there is no evidence that it will be any time soon. Perhaps the prior T2 was axed because it didn't offer much new and this is the replacement.

RE: T2 or T3?
cykalan @ 7/18/2003 11:39:06 AM #
coz it's at the back :)

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!
RE: T2 or T3?
Origen @ 7/18/2003 11:42:41 AM #
Everyone is saying this is far off, cuz we haven't seen the t2 yet. You will see one of the two hit the stores in the next 3 wks (fact). Betcha someone here can even get a SKU number right now.

RE: T2 or T3?
ogun7 @ 7/18/2003 12:25:27 PM #
the T2 will probably have a brighter screen (from the Zire 71) and more than 16MB of onboard RAM.


RE: T2 or T3?
Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 1:33:29 PM #
Uh..guys, the TT2 is here now. Circuit City store across North America have them in stock right now, but can't sell them until Palm SG announces the product.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: T2 or T3?
alanh @ 7/18/2003 3:27:23 PM #
Why not skip the T2 and go straight to T3? There's precident in the Palm world: there was never a Palm II, IV, VI, m200, m400, m600, etc...

-alan
RE: T2 or T3?
Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 4:20:53 PM #
Quote: "Why not skip the T2 and go straight to T3?"

Because the T2 is already here. It's too late for Palm to go making house calls to all retailers and scoop up those unreleased T2 boxes now.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: T2 or T3?
michaelalf @ 7/18/2003 5:22:07 PM #
Just went to BestBuy in Blommingdale IL and they have a T2 out to play with. The screen is brighter but the price was $699.00.

RE: T2 or T3?
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 5:55:09 PM #
$700! No way.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: T2 or T3?
Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 10:40:22 PM #
The TT2 does NOT cost $700. That is most certainly a mistake. Palm isn't stupid enough to price this device higher than the device it is replacing.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: T2 or T3?
shawnfb @ 7/19/2003 12:16:34 AM #
YUP! it's $699 in Best Buy, I know for sure... I just bought it! I am looking at it on my desk.
Oh ..don't ask.. OF COURSE I AM RETURNING THIS!! $699?
has PALM GONE MAD? or is Best Buy gouging us.. in any event I have no intention of keeping this for this price. If it doesn't go down to $400 in 30 days, I'll keep my Original TT..
here's the scoop..
it's silver, 32 mb ram, nice screen, real processing speed... pretty even with the T original. Let's sat that the Tungsten C blows away the T2 in speed... no contest.
so is it worth the upgrade at this price?
NO F-ING WAY!!! I would,'t upgrade for $500, it's a $400 machine, especially when matched against the HP h2215 which in my opinion is very nice, and offers more ala swappable batteries, Bluetoth light indicator, ( by the way PALM, what was so tough about a light to indicate BT on?) oh yes.. back to the $399 hp2215,... NEVO remote control.. (awsome), complete syncing with Outlook, spped improvements with PPC2003,
gorgous (bigger than T2) screen, great MP3 playback, (T2 sucks for this with realplayer), hmm Hp2215 has sd AND CF card support without a sled!!! 64MB ram, need I go on?
Granted I LOVE PALM OS but PALM just blew me out of the water with a $699 price on a simple update which just keeps this PDA afloat with the compettion.
You could spend $649 and get a 128 mb Ipaq 5555 with BT and Wi-fi, and all the bells and whistles.

In closing, $699 is a huge price mistake by Best buy, or PALM, or BEST BUY is taking advantage of a prerelease on this unit.. in nay event, they will not get any more that $400 of my hard earned bucks for this T2... I am marching it right back for a refund..
PS anyone want a brand new 2 day young T2 for a mere $742.00? that includes tax of course...
LOL $742.00 can you believe it!!!!!!!
PDA joke of the year.

good luck



RE: T2 or T3?
TWhayne @ 7/19/2003 12:56:52 AM #
I don't know if you just happened to get the biggest scam pulled on you, but I can promise that the true retail price of the T2 will be at $399.99 not $699.99! How do I know this, because I have received the marketing from Palm, and could give you the sku if you wanted. I would take that back if you truly paid that much, and have some Best Buy high-schooler's head IMHO.

RE: T2 or T3?
Taka @ 7/19/2003 7:14:51 AM #
Yes, Best Buy's site puts the price tag of $699.99 to T2. Hope that's $399.99, or less... although I'd wait until T3 comes in.

RE: T2 or T3?
Foo Fighter @ 7/19/2003 9:11:57 AM #
Yes, the price is wrong. So are the specs:

http://tinyurl.com/hfpv

Don't panic. The price is $399.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: T2 or T3?
dreamsofxion @ 7/19/2003 12:34:40 PM #
I can also vouch that the T2's price will be $399.
I have a SKU pulled up at this moment in CompUSA's inventory system. The T2 has a SKU (300601) within CompUSA's inventory. List price is currently $9999.97, however, as there has yet to be a street date announced.
CompUSA's inventory often reflects the street date in the list price of an unreleased product. However, given the employee cost of the unit, I feel quite confident that the unit will sell for $399.

RE: T2 or T3?
mikecane @ 7/19/2003 8:05:29 PM #
From another CUSA source:

SKU 304293 -- retail for $399.

RE: T2 or T3?
I.M Anonymous @ 7/19/2003 10:02:57 PM #
IIRC, Best Buy has a Price Match Guarentee. I'd highly suggest you take advantage of it before your 30 days run out.

Its real

stellaboy @ 7/18/2003 11:57:26 AM #
same screen display as the new sony and almost same os version.

RE: Its real
markgm @ 7/18/2003 12:10:38 PM #
Seems like the same screen too. It has the same backlight shadow problem the NR70 had and I see it a little more on my NX80 than I did on the NX70. You can see it best when you look at the landscape shot with the launcher full screen. You can see the 4 distict white areas. I remember this used to drive nr70 owners bonkers.

RE: Its real
mikecane @ 7/19/2003 8:06:49 PM #
>>>same screen display as the new sony

-- you mean the smaller 320x480 screen the UX has, right? That's what I suspect.

Finally!!!!!

OBDOC @ 7/18/2003 11:57:17 AM #
This is the product that I have ben searching for! 3 years of waiting and reading this site have finally paid off. Bluetooth, small form factor, virtual grafitti, 64MB...Way to go Palm!!!

RE: Finally!!!!!
Fammy @ 7/18/2003 12:08:31 PM #
I thought the Helix would be my next device, but this guy might just do it. It has about 90% of my requested features.

-- Fammy
RE: Finally!!!!!
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:40:11 PM #
And it will have the BEST FREAKING STYLUS of ANY PDA!

Well, I had to get that bit out there...

RE: Finally!!!!!
ozz @ 7/19/2003 2:28:31 PM #
*\0/* Hurray Hurray *\0/* I'm buying this if it's real. It has everything I want!

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!

Landscape when opened up?

sub_tex @ 7/18/2003 12:10:18 PM #
I don't buy that Palm would allow the PDA to only be in landscape mode when yuo slide it open. Makes no sense usability-wise.

Also, when in this landscape mode, the time on the systray on the right shows the numbers stacked.

?

Not exactly a pretty solution. And there's no area to write on when in the landscape mode (unless I'm missing the VG button on that bar).

RE: Landscape when opened up?
sub_tex @ 7/18/2003 12:18:02 PM #
scratch that landscape only comment. The other pics show it in portrait as well.

RE: Landscape when opened up?
LiveFaith @ 7/18/2003 5:48:34 PM #
What if the device had a gravitational device inside which determined how the device was being held to determine landscape or portrait modes?

My Kodak DC290 digital camera has it.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Landscape when opened up?
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 6:01:19 PM #
"What if the device had a gravitational device inside which determined how the device was being held to determine landscape or portrait modes?"

What if I'm laying down sideways in bed? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Thanks, robrecht

Real

whiteamex @ 7/18/2003 12:33:35 PM #
To see if this device is real; go to the page bellow and try to get the FCC ID #. It's slightly blurred. Then go to the FCC website and look it up.


http://hardware.enet.com.cn/inforcenter/article.jsp?articleid=20030718253897&pageid=6

RE: Real
RSC @ 7/18/2003 12:39:35 PM #
The whole FCC reg number in that picture is: O3W550000.

This however seems to be just the filing for the original Tungsten T:

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...cc_id=O3W550000

RE: Real
Tungstenman @ 7/18/2003 1:26:00 PM #
O3W550000 is not the TT3 FCC number, it is the plain TT's number, I know because its my PDA

A Palm in one hand is worth 2 Pocket PC Bricks
: )
-Steve
RE: Real
I_M_Anonymous @ 7/18/2003 4:14:26 PM #
They can certainly share the same number if the radio structure is the same, to reduce FCC overhead.

Flip cover?

Wyvern @ 7/18/2003 12:37:41 PM #
I hate the new button design, but did anybody else notice that the top section on the back of the T3 now has slots that could be used for a flip cover? It's about time Palm did something about that.

RE: Flip cover? Ugly buttons!
McTrinsic @ 7/21/2003 2:34:32 AM #
The idea of a flip cover would be awesome.

And i must agree, the button-layout is horrible, its useless for gaming!

Have fun,
McTrinsic

The Time ....

Edward Green @ 7/18/2003 1:06:42 PM #
Notice how the time is in 24hr clock at the top of the launcher, but in 12hr clock at the bottom? If this was a fake I would have expected them to be the same.

What really is going on is Palm see the release of the new Sony and respond by leaking a couple of pics of a prototype to keep sony off the top news slot ...

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

RE: The Time ....
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 1:31:09 PM #
Palm is finally showing some business savvy!

Thanks, robrecht
RE: The Time ....
robrecht @ 7/18/2003 1:31:55 PM #
Of course, they could be killing their T2 sales before they start, which is reminiscent and even worse than the m505 debacle. If they could rush the T3 into production as the T2, now that would be Panglosian.

Thanks, robrecht
RE: The Time ....
hoodoo @ 7/18/2003 2:09:31 PM #
"Panglossian"

Good one! I had to look it up. Yes, Palm seems to not be resting on their laurels finally.

RE: The Time ....
hoodoo @ 7/18/2003 2:11:59 PM #
...and please excuse my ugly sentence structure. :)

Fake or Real?

scouter075 @ 7/18/2003 1:15:08 PM #
As long as I've been following PIC,(a couple of years now) it still amazes and amuses me how some readers spend so much time and energy trying to convince everyone else that these "rumors" or real or fake.

When it comes down to it there are only 2 facts:

1. Real or fake, we'll just have to wait and see. Palm holds the cards.

2. PIC has an excellent track record and is usually right on the money.

I, for one, have a lot of confience in them.

Dennis G. Esler
scouter075@comcast.net

Seems Real to Me

Beacon @ 7/18/2003 1:54:47 PM #
The pictures look real to me. It seems that this is the answer to allot the posts I've seen here in the past. As if Palm was actually listening. Maybe they leak this out and watch for our feedback. Maybe the buttons would change. Why not, it's maket research at it's best !

If I was Palm this would be the perfect place for feedback on future designs.

Remember only a month or so ago we saw pictures of the T2 and now it's here. Those pictures came from China as well. I wonder if it's already in production for release in early 2004.

I fear the T2 is already doomed. I'm definitely going to pass on it and wait for the T3. What's six more months?



RE: Seems Real to Me
WileyCoyote @ 7/18/2003 3:19:03 PM #
quoteThe pictures look real to me. It seems that this is the answer to allot the posts I've seen here in the past. As if Palm was actually listening. Maybe they leak this out and watch for our feedback. Maybe the buttons would change. Why not, it's maket research at it's best !

If I was Palm this would be the perfect place for feedback on future designs.

Remember only a month or so ago we saw pictures of the T2 and now it's here. Those pictures came from China as well. I wonder if it's already in production for release in early 2004.

I fear the T2 is already doomed. I'm definitely going to pass on it and wait for the T3. What's six more months?

quote

Yes and remember those so-called photoshop experts who all claimed the pics of the T2 were fake? Some of them are now saying the T3 pics are fake-Those guys are slow learners in my book.
I wish Palm were smart enough to do their market research on these boards. I know Sony does. But yes
the shine is off the T2 now. Frankly I wouldn't pay much more than $299 for the T2 knowing what else is out there and/or comming soon. At $399 for it I would rather wait till the end of the year and get a T3 or see what Sony has out then.

RE: Seems Real to Me
mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:43:17 PM #
I was one person who cried Fake! about the T2.

I'm shutting my mouth this time. But *Foo* cried fake -- see above.

RE: Seems Real to Me
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 8:37:44 PM #
someone wrote:
> I fear the T2 is already doomed.

What make you think there won't be a steep price differential between two new models to ensure that neither dooms the other? I think it's called market segmentation.

RE: Seems Real to Me
kriegsfalke @ 7/19/2003 2:53:08 AM #
I think its real.
Look the latest models form Palm ->

Tungsten T(Oslo) many said it would be a Fake, now you can Buy it.
Tungsten C many said it would be a Fake, now you can Buy it.
Zire 71 many said it would be a Fake, now you can Buy it.

I think Palm will place the T|T2 for the low price Market and the T|T3 in the High End market. But where stands the Zire 71 now?



RE: Seems Real to Me
JKingGrim @ 7/22/2003 9:08:45 AM #
I cried fake on the T2, but ate my words two days later. Here, I say there is no way possible this is a fake. This would be pretty hard to photoshop. Photoshops are usually done on close frontal pictures. To photoshop these, you would have to worry about perspective, background, ect.

Make a slider lock

MediaBaron @ 7/18/2003 2:17:15 PM #
As a T|T I also hate the slider. As a compromise put a lock switch on the back so it can stay in the open position. That way those who like the small form factor can have that, those who would rather live large can have that too.

I'm surprised that the case makers, are you listening EB Cases?, haven't made a case with a locking clip to keep to T|T in the open position. I'd buy one, I already own their case for my T|T.

Full screen with Virtual Graffiti is cool, I assume it's gonna be G2 though. But those darn button in a circular pattern is going to mess-up my GTS raceing steering.


RE: Make a slider lock
Beacon @ 7/18/2003 3:56:23 PM #
How about a spring loaded slider along with it. SNAP and it's open. Very cool.

Whats so bad about the buttons?

helf @ 7/18/2003 3:34:08 PM #
More and more games are supporting the dpad and now all you have to do is move a finger up and down a littel ways instead of left and right for shooting and what not.. whats so bad abotu the way they are grouped? wouldnt bother me in the lest...

RE: Whats so bad about the buttons?
kevdo @ 7/18/2003 7:43:20 PM #
Well, let's say you move with the D-pad and shoot with the datebook button. On the T|T or Zire 71 it's pretty easy to use one hand or a finger for the pad and another hand's thumb to shoot.

With this device your hands are pretty much on top of each other.

There's a reason the buttons should be spaced out.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Whats so bad about the buttons?
helf @ 7/18/2003 9:00:37 PM #
if you have a dpad then why would you use more than 2 of the otehr application buttons in a game?

RE: Whats so bad about the buttons?
JKingGrim @ 7/20/2003 10:13:03 AM #
Because some developers (like me) plan to take advantange of the extra buttons.

What is that next to the name?

honus @ 7/18/2003 3:36:38 PM #
What is that at the center of the top, to the right of the name? Is it just the spot where the palm logo gets glued in? It looks kind of like a camera, though that would be the wrong place for it to be unless everyone plans on taking pictures of themselves.

RE: What is that next to the name?
KRamsauer @ 7/18/2003 4:05:24 PM #
It's a screw.

Doh!

Purfekshunist @ 7/18/2003 3:57:49 PM #
As one of those clamoring for a PalmOS PDA with a 320 x 480 screen (High-Res+, virtual graffiti, or whatever you want to call it) without a built-in keyboard/thumboard, I have to say that this isn't it. Not for me, anyway.

My wish for a PDA is still best described as an m515 with virtual graffiti, or half of a Sony NX series.

At least there's no thumboard on this one, but why the slider? Why is it so difficult to make a "plain" PDA with a 320 x 480 screen and buttons (and two expansion slots - but I'll settle for one). What happened to the philosophy of simplicity of form and function that Palm was originally built on?

I used to be hopeful, but now I'm getting discouraged. Palm is obviously sticking with the T|T form factor (abandoning the wildly successful Palm V/m500 series style), while Sony is going further into the "everything but the kitchen sink" realm.

I'm now left to hoping that Apple will come out with a PalmOS PDA (they'd get it right). I guess that's an indication of how little chance I have of ever seeing what I'm hoping for. Oh well - saves me money.

RE: Doh!
bleedingedge @ 7/18/2003 5:50:45 PM #
The above comments echo the voices of many, myself included. I'm trying to squeeze as much life out of my little m505 as possible because nothing on the market is appealing. Thumb board on a PDA = garbage. The new clies are getting ridiculous. I am so frustrated because Palm doesn't seem to get the message about what we really want in a PDA. This guy said it best.

As for this model, the slider would be pretty useless. The other day I was at the Apple Store, playing with the current TT, and I accidently closed the slider on my finger. It took a nice chunk of skin with it. I should have sued. Moving parts of a PDA is just as poor form as having a thumb board IMO.

RE: Doh!
Palmary @ 7/19/2003 10:28:03 PM #
Personally, I love the slider. I use SlideFree and Jot, which means that most of the time I don't need to open the PDA. But the 360x480 screen will mean that when I do want to use a doc or spreadsheet, I have the option of using the extra real estate.

But that isn't the reason I'm posting - after all, the argument is silly because it's all a matter of personal taste. I like sliders and you don't - fair enough.

What I really want to know is:
a) how did bleedingedge manage to get their finger caught in the slider? After a year of constant use I have yet to do so.
b) How does someone do so with such force as to "take a nice chunk of skin"? Does bleedingedge always slam doors as well?

I mean, if you damage yourself using a PDA with one moving part, I figure that screen and CPU options are probably the least of your problems ;-)

BTW I am the owner of 2 TTs and still have 10 fingers.

RE: Doh!
helf @ 7/19/2003 11:11:06 PM #
ya know..All of you that dont liek the slider could jsut get one of those leather cases that are big enough to cover the tungsten when open and puyt velcro on the bottom of the slider to keep it open..

RE: Doh!
Marshall Flinkman @ 7/20/2003 10:48:25 PM #
That's a compromise (Velcro) that many users, including me, aren't willing to make. Read through the case reviews--and comments--on The Gadgeteer (www.the-gadgeteer.com) if you have any doubts.

Back when I had a PalmPilot Pro, I had a case for it that intended for you to use Velcro. I didn't bother, and haven't even considered a Velcro-optional case since.

RE: Doh!
JKingGrim @ 7/22/2003 9:24:21 AM #
I used to be hopeful, but now I'm getting discouraged. Palm is obviously sticking with the T|T form factor (abandoning the wildly successful Palm V/m500 series style), while Sony is going further into the "everything but the kitchen sink" realm.

Zire is the savoir. I believe it was a month ago that a rumor of two new devices from Palm (one Tungsten, one Zire) was released. If this is the Tungsten they were hinting at, a Zire is not far off. We can only hope that the zire will have VG.

RE: Doh!
schon @ 8/1/2003 6:55:23 AM #
I would consider a Palm perfect if it had:

- the m5xx series' form factor
- 320 x 480 screen with VG
- the same processor used in the Tungsten|T
- multimedia capabilities (MP3 + video playback)
- Bluetooth and/or Wi-Fi built-in

Wouldn't that rock? It'll simply be the best - all that power in the sleek and subtle form factor of the original m5xx series handhelds.

Upgrade OS

QDeath @ 7/18/2003 4:39:38 PM #
Does anyone know if the OS of the Tungsten T2 and/or T3 will allow for the upgrade to v6?

RE: Upgrade OS
Marshall Flinkman @ 7/20/2003 10:52:22 PM #
From what Palm SG and PalmSource have said, probably, but we'll have to wait to be sure.

iPaq 55xx vs Tung C

mikecane @ 7/18/2003 4:47:52 PM #
So there I was at CompUSA this afternoon, freeloading on theri PDAs as usual (still having not upgraded my S320). After fifteen minutes, I finally get the damned iPaq 55xx to connect to the net via WiFi (it needed a soft reset, which if I had from the start, would not have taken 15 minutes!).

I browse around, hit PIC.

YOW! I see this story. But the pcitures are so... BLAH!

So I grab the Tung C (which I detest!) and call up PIC.

Ah, the photos are *viewable*!

I've just come from the eNet site (I'm on a desktop terminal at a net cafe at the moment). OK, I think it's real. I'll go on record. (Buying a big fat crow for Foo to eat...)

Man, do I hate those buttons, though! Ugh-lee!

So, will Sony come out with a 320x480 T-series by Xmas? Damn right!

RE: iPaq 55xx vs Tung C
Foo Fighter @ 7/18/2003 10:44:55 PM #
I'll baste it with Lee & Perrins, and wash it down with a bottle of Beck's. This is one prediction I PRAY I'm wrong about. This is pretty much what I have DREAMED would come to market.

*As I sit patiently with fork and knife in hand, awaiting my plate of crow.*

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: iPaq 55xx vs Tung C
mikecane @ 7/19/2003 8:09:29 PM #
Well, I'd still like a one-piecer with WiFi built-in. Take that NR/NX/NZ screen, break it off that hinge -- and make sure *Palm* makes it. Sony would screw up the fonts, stylus, and pricing... (despite the SJs/SLs currently being Reeel Cheeep at CUSA right now).

But this will do!

RE: iPaq 55xx vs Tung C
Altema @ 7/19/2003 10:43:32 PM #
"it needed a soft reset"

Very common occurance. Just supervised two weeks of wireless site design. The engineer used an iPaq which had to be reset a few times a day, every day, and that did not include rotating the screen which also requires resets to get back to portrait. Still, it beats carrying a laptop for eight hours.

RE: iPaq 55xx vs Tung C
Foo Fighter @ 7/19/2003 10:55:54 PM #
Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer a flip cover. There I times I really miss the Palm III form factor. Yes it was bulky and unattractive...but damn was it practical. You just shoved it into your pocket and didn't worry about the screen getting scratched or the paint chipping off (yes, those were the days before PDA vendors discovered plastic could be coated in paint. Too bad they can't figure out how to do it in a color other than silver!).

Nevertheless, I am still greatly fond of the TT form factor (although I'm not at all crazy about the slider. Never trust moving parts, they wear out). As long as Palm doesn't pull a Sony and price this up in the clouds, and try to milk Palm users for all their worth, I will be more than happy with the TT3.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: iPaq 55xx vs Tung C
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:12:36 AM #
Remind me again what PDA you are using these days, Foo. And didn't you also get a Dell PPC?!

RE: iPaq 55xx vs Tung C
Foo Fighter @ 7/20/2003 10:35:09 AM #
"Remind me again what PDA you are using these days, Foo. And didn't you also get a Dell PPC?!"

Zire 71. But it isn't quite the PDA for me, hence my interest in T2...and now T3.

As for the Dell, it isn't my main PDA. I chose it because of the insanely low price ($175), and I wanted to play around with PPC and see how the other half lived.

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

RE: iPaq 55xx vs Tung C
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 8:21:05 AM #
>>>I wanted to play around with PPC and see how the other half lived.

-- what do you mean "other half"?!!? PPC doesn't have that kind of market share! You mean how the lower quintile get along.

Bah! Text isn't very useful either!

Pepper @ 7/18/2003 5:22:29 PM #
Reading through the enet article doesn't provide too much help to understanding the unit. No date or price are known at this time, but the processor is expected to be the same one as the T|C -- 400 MHz. Other than that, there really isn't much to read. Most of the comments the guy wrote are little things like "this is virtual keyboard"

Hopefully though we can get some more deffinitive information soon, rather than only a series of pictures

so, who wants to calculate the dimension? ;)

-Pepper

I love my Palm . . . do you?

RE: Bah! Text isn't very useful either!
mikecane @ 7/21/2003 7:10:22 PM #
Pepper: You can read Chinese? Did you save the photos? What does it say on that "About" screen -- the one with the miniature picture of the closed TT3 on the left and the text on the right? Can you list them line-by-line, starting with the text in the dark red "title bar"?

MP3 / 802.11b ???

brewmaster @ 7/18/2003 5:24:23 PM #
I may have missed this spec, but was there any mention of MP3, expansion for WiFi 802.11b, or expansion for CF memory or some form of removable memory?

I was REALLY close to buying the Sony NX series, but I don't need the damn camera. I just want PalmOS 5+ (maybe 6?), MP3, WiFi. That's IT! Bluetooth is just a bonus. Good timing Palm.. you've just delayed my PDA decision. :)

RE: MP3 / 802.11b ???
LiveFaith @ 7/18/2003 6:06:19 PM #
Boy I bet the execs at Palm are really, really, really mad about this leak! If they find they guy that took these pics and put em' on the web they'll string him up by his toe nails.

Who could have done such a thing, especially on the same day that Sony has it's big announcement? It even splits both Sony stories on PIC. I can't figure it out.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? :-)



Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: MP3 / 802.11b ???
awdr @ 7/18/2003 8:04:17 PM #
this leak killed the T2 before Palm officially launched it!

Who on earth will buy the T2?? It will be interesting to see how Palm adapts the price. 399 US is way to much.

RE: MP3 / 802.11b ???
hotpaw4 @ 7/18/2003 8:55:15 PM #
> Who on earth will buy the T2?

People who can't afford the T3 obviously. Who thinks the prices will be anywhere close to each other?

RE: MP3 / 802.11b ???
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:13:24 AM #
Or someone who needs a new PDA *now* and can palm the T2 off (pun intended, duh!) on a relative who has yet to own a PDA when the T3 comes out. Gee, could that be... me?! Maybe.

One good thing about the slider/long screen!

ajg23 @ 7/18/2003 6:04:14 PM #
Looking at the first pic, it appears to me that if the "T3" were collapsed, there'd still be just enough extra vertical screen real estate remaining for the "status bar" to be shown there.

Whether you think that's a pretty neat idea or not (I do! esp having clock and global function butons available without taking up standard 320x320 area), I think that this really supports the device being real (it seems like an innovation rather than a hack of an original Tungsten T picture with extra screen added to the bottom)!

Aaron

RE: One good thing about the slider/long screen!
Altema @ 7/19/2003 10:55:26 PM #
Yes, there is a little extra space for a bar. If you look at the picture with the normal graffiti, it has this "Palm Bar" below the graffiti area. In this view, the work area is 320x320, but does not come all the way down to where the slider stops. This leftover space is the same size as the Palm Bar, and is right were it should be when closed.

T3 Wishlist

agchang @ 7/18/2003 9:21:19 PM #
Those that think that both Wi-Fi and bluetooth should be included should let Palm know. There is a place for both. Many PocketPC's have both. I sent off the my for both among many other things wished for my "dream" Palm.

RE: T3 Wishlist
ScottL @ 7/19/2003 2:29:28 PM #
If you want kitchen sink PDA buy a sony. I just want a light, slim PDA with 320 X 480. No camera, no clamshell, no wireless and no keyboard with letters too small for me to use (I have large fingers).

RE: T3 Wishlist
agchang @ 7/20/2003 12:30:25 AM #
No I am not asking for a kitchen sink. I just saying that including both wireless technologies would be great. Wi-Fi is starting to get into the workplace. When away from any Wi-Fi access point, bluetooth works great with a bluetooth phone which I have.

As far as my other wishes for a better T|T, I included things such as a much faster processor, 64 MB or more memory, virtual graffiti area, transflective TFT, VPN client, and smaller footprint web browser.

RE: T3 Wishlist
ScottL @ 7/20/2003 12:42:35 AM #
OK I hope you get what you want. But just want a T665 with VG and the new OS (OK I wouldn't be mad if it had better buttons).

Clever

M3wThr33 @ 7/19/2003 3:56:35 AM #
Look at the top slider edge. It stops about 3cm below the vg area. So when it's compact, you don't always need to slide it to access the main buttons. They didn't screw THAT up.
Although at this point a smaller more sensitive d-pad and losing the slider would be better, but that's what I have my Zire71 for.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

Weird... no pics of slider closed and Tungsten on?!?!?

jcmorganstein @ 7/19/2003 12:17:31 PM #
Does it seem weird that there are NO pics on PIC or the link to the news article showing the rumored Tungsten on, but with slider closed? I could easily imagine what it looks like (the T|T ;-) but it would have to look at least a little different. I wonder if pics like this are available...

-jcm
RE: Weird... no pics of slider closed and Tungsten on?!?!?
mikecane @ 7/19/2003 8:34:01 PM #
Almost wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/hgfn

-- go to the bottom. There seems to be an About screen that shows a photo of the closed unit with the screen on. The "PalmBar" shows!

(Geez, I hope this makes up for me missing the Decuma screen snap in Sony Japan's site!)

One **HUGE** screwup!!

mikecane @ 7/19/2003 8:13:58 PM #
Looking at the "PalmBar" (I won't call it a Taskbar, dammit!), I am Real Peeved.

Go look at what's there. Now think about what's missing when the Soft Graffiti area is collapsed.

I'll wait...

...ding!ding!...

-- time's up! (I didn't say I'd wait long!)

There does not seem to be any way to invoke the Command Bar without first popping-up the Soft Graffiti area. That is Major Dumb.

How much thought or even coding does it take to plop an icon in the PalmBar that shows an upward Graffiti slash, to call up the Command Bar?! It SHOULD be there.

If I'm in, say, WordSmith and all I'm doing is shifting stuff around, I want the entire screen (well, minus what the PalmBar takes up) to view my text. I don't want to have to Grow/Collapse the Soft Graffiti area just to invoke Command bar tasks (Copy, Cut, Paste, et al).

Think about it.

And Palm SG -- or PalmSource -- if you're reading this, for crying out loud, PUT IT IN THERE or ready a PATCH for downloading the day this baby goes on sale!

I'm surprised Sony hasn't thought of this...

RE: One **HUGE** screwup!!
shawnfb @ 7/23/2003 12:41:18 AM #
you obviously are an amature in the PALM OS arena, there is indeed an application to invoke the command bar without opening the slider. But, you know what? I'm not going to tell you what it is just because you were so adamant and obviously misdirected with your anger. It appears that folks like you are the spark to many annoying arguments that are solely based on unfounded and false statements.
I suggest you educate yourself a little more before making such bold accusations.
In the meantime.. I'll enjoy my painless and slider-less command bar tasks.


RE: One **HUGE** screwup!!
shawnfb @ 7/23/2003 12:53:27 AM #
ahhhhhhh what the hell..I'll tell you.
I'll make you look foolish .. but only once I promise,
The new version of Palm OS 5.2 allows for a command stroke in the "write on screen" mode.

OKay??? Now go back to your Palm Pilot!!

:) sorry guys I had to do it..

RE: One **HUGE** screwup!!
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 8:23:04 AM #
>>>there is indeed an application to invoke the command bar without opening the slider.

-- putting a command stroke on screen is not an application.

And I don't believe you anyway.

RE: One **HUGE** screwup!!
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 8:35:32 AM #
Ah, and let me point out, this guy's been a "Member Since: 7/19/2003."

All of four days!

Obviously an *amateur* when it comes to spelling. As well as punctuation. Excellent in BS, though:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=5684#81672


Advice to Palm SG re: Tung T2

mikecane @ 7/19/2003 8:23:20 PM #
If Palm SG is smart, they'd stop production of the TT2 *now* and call it a Limited Edition or Special Edition.

We do NOT want a flood of unsold TT2s preventing or delaying release of this TT3.

RE: Advice to Palm SG re: Tung T2
Foo Fighter @ 7/19/2003 10:53:11 PM #
LOL!!!! Now that I agree with. Too bad there's not a snowball's chance in hell this will happen. Why is Palm always one step behind the market?

-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Advice to Palm SG re: Tung T2
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:17:03 AM #
Well, with this T3, they are catching up!

I just hope it's not going to cost $499 (like the T1 did!). Eh. Who am I kidding. It'll be $499.

Release Date?

QDeath @ 7/19/2003 10:13:15 PM #
Anyone guess as to when the release date of the T3 is? One month? Six months? A year?
RE: Release Date?
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:15:28 AM #
I've seen someone post calculations of Leaks to Release. Equalled seven weeks.

Just in time to be on store shelves next to the CLUX!

Won't Sony be happy?! Heh-heh-heh.

Paging Davy Fields

mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:25:56 AM #
How come Davy has commented on this?! Doesn't he run a TT list or group or something? Davy: Your URL?!

RE: Paging Davy Fields
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:39:30 AM #
Grrr. EMT: Early Morning Typo. "has" = "HASN'T"

HURAY!!!

JKingGrim @ 7/20/2003 10:24:21 AM #
Palm is finally onboard! Sony has nowhere to run! Even though this one is not for me (I don't want slider), just the fact that Palm is making VG models is great news. I can't wait to see a Zire VG model. No slider and definitely good multimedia to accomodate the gorgeous screen. Perhaps this is one of the rumored devices. I hope it is, because the would mean there is a Zire device comming too!

RE: HURAY!!!
mikecane @ 7/20/2003 10:40:52 AM #
And just what do you have against sliders?

We can have 100 members of the Sliders Anti-Defamation League picketing you this afternoon! Bigot!

Hah!

Look again at the pictures: Doesn't that look like Kinoma is being put into ROM?!

You think that'll be the case with the next Zire as well?

RE: HURAY!!!
JKingGrim @ 7/20/2003 1:13:47 PM #
Whoa whoa whoa! Don't bring the wrath of the slider army against me yet! I have nothing against sliders! I just don't need it. I would prefer a non slider PDA, because slider PDAs are huge with the slider open, and with a VG PDA, I would never want to close the slider. Therefore I choose to omit the slider.

RE: HURAY!!!
mikecane @ 7/21/2003 8:50:11 AM #
Then you must wait wait wait for the Zire to get it. In the meantime, you can be envious of the rest of us who put up with the slider to get That Screen.

RE: HURAY!!!
robrecht @ 7/22/2003 3:56:01 PM #
I think the slider's worth it just to get the stylus!

Thanks, robrecht

BT keyboard?

mikecane @ 7/20/2003 11:34:55 AM #
This has probably been covered to death in the Forum -- but I can't get to the Forum. The server is busy doing non-serving things, apparently.

So, has anyone announced a Bluetooth keyboard? With that Enfora WiFi-in-a-case using up the Universal Connector, the new T3 cries out for a BT-enabled keyboard!

URLs?!

RE: BT keyboard?
JKingGrim @ 7/20/2003 1:26:06 PM #
I can't go to the forums either!

RE: BT keyboard?
Admin @ 7/20/2003 8:53:06 PM #
I rebooted the server, all should be well now. The thing hadn't been rebooted in 82 days.

Advantage of Bluetooth, small size.

dona83 @ 7/21/2003 1:08:56 AM #
I'm a college student and always on the move and bluetooth allows me access the net on the train and anywhere for that matter without being stuck to a Wi-Fi access point which is few and far around Vancouver anyway.

Also, the small size works for me. I only use graffiti 10% of the time, most of the time I'm looking up information, listening to mp3s, etc. I love how it's so small, otherwise the Tungsten C is out there, with a much faster processor and Wi-Fi support. As for me, I love my Tungsten T.

Donald

Tungsten T3 versus Sony UX40/50

High John @ 7/21/2003 7:50:00 AM #
On July 18th, Palm Infocenter ran news items on both the Tungsten T3 and the Sony UX40/50.

The Sony is a proper product launch, with full specification, price, and date. There are things about it I (do and) don't like, but at the same time it is an innovative product (eg 1st 480*320 landscape clamshell Palm device with keyboard, etc, etc). And you can walk out of the store with one, come September.

The Tungsten T3 is an unsubstantiated rumour of a product that may not even exist.

So why are there 173 posts about the Tungsten, and only 80 about the Sony? What does that say about us, and about what we want in our next Palm?

RE: Tungsten T3 versus Sony UX40/50
mikecane @ 7/21/2003 8:49:05 AM #
It might also mean we were all talked out about the subject from the prior day's article about the Japan release...

RE: Tungsten T3 versus Sony UX40/50
flevy @ 7/21/2003 5:19:52 PM #
What it says is that the new Sony is not a PDA - it is a laptop for a hamster. It is quite a technical accomplishment but it is overkill for most mortals.

RE: Tungsten T3 versus Sony UX40/50
Bioco @ 7/21/2003 9:24:33 PM #
What it says that we better get that tungsten soon or were going to bust in there and get it ourselves. Sony lost me as a costumer I'm going back to palm and soon. I'll get the the ZIRE 71 if it drops in price or if the tungstens are going for more than $400. I'll wait and see.
RE: Tungsten T3 versus Sony UX40/50
JKingGrim @ 7/22/2003 9:41:22 AM #
The new SONY is same-old same-old to me.

Look at the pics, goddammit :o)

RipRapRob @ 7/21/2003 7:36:01 AM #
On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_1_sm.jpg the slider covers the grafittiarea - and nothing else. Look at the sides of the 'Palm' - the 'rail' for the sliders.

And the screen is big enough for 4 rows of icons.

On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_2_sm.jpg the slider is open, but closed it would cover one of the 3 rows of icons.

QED: The screen is NOT the same size on the two pictures. The pictures must be fake.

/Rob

RE: Look at the pics, goddammit :o)
mikecane @ 7/21/2003 8:43:47 AM #
Nonsense! You are comparing portrait to landscape. The "PalmBar" is situated differently in each. And landscape does not show a Soft Graffiti area.

I was going to find some different photos to make the point, but it seems the pages of photos have been taken down at the Chinese site. If that's actually the case, I hope everyone saved them to disk!

RE: Look at the pics, goddammit :o)
RipRapRob @ 7/21/2003 9:34:51 AM #
Sorry, I should have written:

On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_2_sm.jpg the slider is open, but closed it would cover one of the 3 COLUMS of icons.

I'm talking about the HARDWARE: Look hov mutch the slider covers:

On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_1_sm.jpg it wouldn't even cover the graffitti area whan CLOSED.

On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_2_sm.jpg it dosen't even show the grafitti-area when OPEN!

The 'allways visible' area of the screen i noticeably LARGER on the http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_1_sm.jpg picture.

/Rob

RE: Look at the pics, goddammit :o)
1102 @ 7/21/2003 12:07:51 PM #
Icons are wider than they are tall, which is why you can get 3 columns x 4 rows on a regular TT screen even though it is square. This would explain why there appears to be room for six rows of icons in portrait, but only four columns in landscape.

The slider wouldn't cover the whole Graffiti area, but isn't it possible that the bottom part of the virtual graffiti area - the bit with the home, find etc icons - could snap to the top of the graffiti area when slider closes, so that it always visible. The absence of these icons on the TT was one of it's biggest wekanesses because it meant you always had to open the slider. This seems now to have been fixed. It looks to me that the amount of space on the Graffiti area that wouldn't be covered by the slider is excatly the same as the height of the "PalmBar".

Therefore, the pics may be genuine.

1102

RE: Look at the pics, goddammit :o)
mikecane @ 7/21/2003 2:56:33 PM #
>>On http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/img_rumort3_1_sm.jpg it wouldn't even cover the graffitti area whan CLOSED.

Your eye is correct but the Graffiti area slides down and the PalmBar comes up when the slider is closed. I pointed this out in another post above. So, the Graffiti area is actually covered.

I still can't get to the photos at the Chinese site. Must have been pulled. Palm works fast! Good thing we had all weekend!

Saving Private TT3!
mikecane @ 7/21/2003 7:12:56 PM #
I hope all of you managed to save the pictures to your HD! They are GONE GONE GONE from two sites that had them all.

Tungsten t3??

confucius @ 7/21/2003 7:24:00 PM #
If that's true and on the last picture it seems that it is a virtuel grafiti or menu zone ,i am a buyer.

would like to have a "Palm tablet" pda larger screen input by writing on the screen

It would be nice IF...

vesther @ 7/21/2003 11:04:27 PM #
This Tungsten T3 would offer a choice of either Wi-Fi and/or Bluetooth rather than just offer standard Bluetooth and Optional Wi-Fi.

However, if I was a creator of Palm-Powered Handhelds with the Palm Brand, a handheld similar to the Palm Tungsten T with built-in Wi-Fi (but with a 320x480 High Res Plus Screen, Virtual Graffiti, Landscape/Portrait Support), then I would call the handheld similar to Tungsten T the "Tungsten D" or "Tungsten U"

Established Consumer Palm Handheld Possessor since 2002

Calc Button

JKingGrim @ 7/22/2003 9:53:00 AM #
Why is there a calculator button of the Graffiti area? Do you think it changes depending on what app you select? Perhaps it uses the black and white app icon, but uses blue and white instead to keep the two color scheme.

RE: Calc Button
mikecane @ 7/22/2003 4:58:20 PM #
Huh? I don't understand what you mean.

AAR, I've said that any Soft Graffiti area should be entire skinnable and pluggable. Let me ditch the Calc "soft button" if I want and put something else in there. And let me get rid of that blue and put in anything I want.

Missing the point of WiFi

Gmon750 @ 7/22/2003 10:29:17 PM #
Everyone here refers to using WiFi at a Starbucks or some other meeting place. You're all missing the bigger picture of WiFi. Think of using a WiFi-enabled PDA in some type of institution such as a hospital, insurance, warehouse, etc... WiFi is much more than some schmuck checking their email or websurfing while sipping some overpriced latte (or espresso). WiFi is the ability to have access to data real-time in whatever form it may be.

I hope WiFi is included for this model. I wanted a smaller form-factor than the T|C and am not a keyboard fan and do not admire the plastic case. If not, then the Sandisk SD WiFi card sounds like the ticket. And it is not so that I can sit on some yuppie lounge but so that I can work on PDA-enabled wireless applications and eliminate the need to carry a notebook wherever I go.

RE: Missing the point of WiFi
mikecane @ 7/23/2003 8:25:56 AM #
Or you can --

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5213

-- maybe. I hope this isn't vaporware.

T3

kevinbgood @ 8/2/2003 8:32:26 AM #
You are going to see this model in just a few months, around October.

Addicted to Palm
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