Comments on: PalmGear Acquires Palm Digital Media In Deal With PalmSource

The pricing structure at PDM has changed for the better over time. Now, I can get a brand-new release for much less than the cost of the hardcover version(previously, it used to cost just as much). With the acquisition of PDM by PalmGear, my fear is that this rational pricing structure will change for the worse.

I'm also afraid that if PalmGear alienates publishers the way they have developers, there will be no channel for getting national bestseller-type new book releases on the Palm platform.

I'm probably overreacting. Hopefully, everything will stay the same (especially PDM's website - I'd hate to see it start looking like PalmGear's). Maybe we'll be surprised, and PalmGear will offer an even better selection of ebooks at lower prices. Unfortunately, I'd be less surprised if PDM gets driven out of business.

And it's a little galling they have enough money to buy PDM but not to pay back all that owed to developers as is their rightful and legal due...

So that's somewhere else I won't be spending my money.

(That said, the PalmReader software has really evolved into a nice, elegant, and stable app-I hope it is updated regularly and properly maintained in the future). Still, I've personally read far more "classics" from Memoware than from PDM/PNP.

I'd much rather have the e-book rather than lug around the hard copy versions.

I mean, compare PG to most of the dotcom darlings of the late 90's - not many of them have lasted as long as PG has, despite PG's business missteps. PG has done enough good faith moves for me to accept them. Others may make different decisions and that's fine by me.

I also suspect that part of this move is PalmSource making sure that their is a Palm-specific software distributor. I'm sure it's a good move from their point of view (otherwise they wouldn't have made it).

(BTW, Kenny is not the CEO, Ryan is.)

I appreciate your comments here (and elsewhere), and your motivation is understandable. But if your interest is also in supporting your developers, consider polling the satisfaction of developers for their opinion of PalmGear's behavior. While PalmGear has made some real improvements (like the recent addition of automatic code generation, promised for...um...five years or so), they have also made some severely unwise decisions as well, and not all of those in the distant past.

Perhaps with your deal PalmSource can have some *positive* influence on PalmGear's policies? How about restoring developer's links to technical support or FAQs, or offering some viable alternative? How about building some simple utility to grant PalmGear it's coveted exclusive "About" page, without requiring developers to cut a special version of their software that "complies" with their insane new policy? (I'll calmly realize there's little you could do about a timely and "in-full" pay-out for past-due monies, but these others are real issues you *might* be able to change/influence. ;-P)

If PalmSource is really now "in bed" with these guys, it is in your best interest to address some very real compaints and concerns which PalmGear has ignored in its unfriendly (hostile?) attitute toward developers.

After all, without the developers, there is no "gear." Or, for that matter, much of a "Palm."

Mike
CCO, PalmSource Inc.

Having been involved in setting up a "chat" between developers and PalmSource at the developer seminar last May all I can say is that the PalmSource folks ARE listening to them and doing a pretty good job of it. The problem is that the developers are really not a united community. The big fish have different needs than the small fry and those who are in the middle. And a lot of the smaller developers make decisions as much on emotion as business benefit. (And, again, they have tried - I think Larry Berkin has the patience of a saint here ;) )

Besides all that, where is my money going when I do pay Palmgear? Obviously there's some bad management going on there. Hopefully they can pull themselves together, but until I hear the developers are happy, I won't be going through Palmgear for software.

**************************************
Ann - happily using her Garmin iQue3600

Here's my take on some of your points:

1. "Developers aren't being paid...The point is that there are accusations that developers are still owed money from months back...can any developers confirm this?" Indeed. I can confirm that since I chose to receive 100% of my amount due, I am being paid for earnings I should have earned in Jan-May of 2002 beginning in January 2003 (this year) and lasting through January of 2006! (yes, that's right. Three years. Thirty-six months!) I will not be paid fully for my earnings from the first half of 2002 until, count them, THREE-AND-A-HALF YEARS later.

2. "...the US would not be the power it is today." Nor would we have Enron, Martha Stewart, or global warming. Hey, business is business. But bad business is bad business.

3. "Palmgear is taking away developer rights by removing website information and requiring them to post their PG software index in the about box....Handango." This isn't about how bad Handango is. You know what? Handango is also wrong. Developers should have the right to have their own website on their software and on their link pages. They should be able to point to their own FAQ or support pages, their manuals, their additional products. If PalmGear isn't going to provide the support themselves, those links should be available. Hey, if I'm going to put a link back to PalmGear on my site, or in my About box, the least they can do is return the favor. (I noticed you only compared these policies to Handango, and no other popular download sites, like PDAGreen. Being just as bad as your competition is not the answer.)

Further, the "About" box thing isn't just bad because of the exclusivity of PalmGear hijacking my About box and dictating what I can say there...It's bad because it takes time cutting multiple versions of software. It's bad enough that we have to cut or develop special versions for Clies, hi-res, lo-res, Sony sound, Palm sound, Tapwave widescreen, Handera, etc...Now we also have to have multiple versions of those multiple versions for every place we want to upload our software? If some technical whiz at PalmGear wants to provice me with a utility that automatically seeks out my standardized About box and fills in the correct information, making this process painless, I'll consider supporting such a policy. But when the penalty is actually a threat to CHARGE ME $2 per download, I think someone had stepped over a line. (Who works for who, exactly?)

4. Since you agree, I won't comment. ;-)

5. Don't care.

6. "PalmSource made a big mistake in choosing PalmGear." Time, indeed, will tell. And I guess we'll also see how many Leadership Team members are still enchanted in that year's time, huh? ;-) Personally, I just wish someone else would come along and do it right and we could put PalmGear out of its misery for good. (Which is not to say PalmGear couldn't turn itself around. It could. But it has a lot of things to undo, a lot of crow to eat, and a lot of people to win back, myself included.)

Best,
rzr

And January 2006 will come around so soon won't it? Then we'll be able to spend all our hard earned cash that is in all ways ours - but not with Palmgear, eh boys and girls? ;-)

Once this site had gotten sufficiently large we could start making a case to PalmSource and maybe even the hardware vendors that this was the most developer-friendly option out there and that they should drop support for Handango or PalmGear and adopt our site instead. I suppose once we had the cooperative set up it could also perform some other collective bargaining type functions.

Does anyone think this is an idea worth pursuing?

Oh, and ardiri mentioned esellerate, another option for real penny-pinchers is to set up your own merchant account and put it in a Yahoo Store; for a total of about $73/month for the account and the store plus standard credit card processing fees (which I think are hovering around 2.5% plus $0.30 per transaction) you get a secure online store that can upload transaction info to your own website for order fulfillment (and offers rudimentary ESD functionality of its own for free).

1. "...payment arrangements were made through 2006. Are you at least getting interest on these?"

LOL! You gotta be kidding me. Yeah, riiiight.

Keep in mind, also, that at least half of those developers owed money are not getting paid their rightful earnings AT ALL, because they chose to "settle" the outstanding debt and be paid only 50% or even 20%. (50% paid back by early 2004, or 20% paid last December.) That software was bought and paid for by someone, but the developer was not paid his full share.

2. "bad business..."

I apologize to Ms. Stewart. But I think you got my point. I cite the issues of #1 above, as only one sample of PalmGear's business savvy and management sense. (Perhaps someone should check into their retirement plan though...)

3. "PG and HDG ...policies...make sense from a business standpoint. ...if websites and whatnot were allowed to be put back in the listings/about dialogs as long as you agreed not to sell software from your site, would you agree? If you were in Kenny's shoes, how would you handle the cost of people downloading software from your site only to go purchase on another site?"

Well, here's where I think you're all wrong. What is the actual "cost" of people downloading software from PalmGear? Nowhere near 25% of the cost/time I spend developing it. My app takes up a tiny amount of storage space; they're giving me some database software, a search engine, and decent bandwidth.

What else is PalmGear really giving me? Credit card processing? "Unlimited" bandwidth? Really, the main thing is *exposure* and a search engine keyed to Palm software only. We're really mostly paying simply for them acting as a "central repository," thinking people will mostly come to one place to look for cool Palm software and stumble upon our app in and among the thousands listed there. And for that I'm certainly willing to give PalmGear a reasonable cut.

But here's the thing. I can buy my own bandwidth. (And I don't need as much as PalmGear, because I only sell *my* apps.) I can subscribe to a much cheaper service for processing credit cards, or I can use any number of online methods (PayPal, etc.) for accepting payment. So in this case, I'm really *only* paying PalmGear for their central repository theory, assuming they won't find my software through Google or some review at ClieSource or somewhere else. So that "central repository" idea alone better be worth the cut they want, seeing as they didn't help me write my app.

Sure, some of their extra services are nice, and if you don't want to set up your own website or deal with alternate methods of accepting payment, it is probably worth it to let them handle all that for you. I also find some people prefer to use PalmGear for payment; I'll certainly provide them with a link to do that if they want to. Whatever makes it easier for my customers is okay with me.

But if I've gone through the hassle to provide those services on my own site, why shouldn't I get to use them? If people find my product through some other source than PalmGear (say, a favorable review at Cliesource, or PDArcade), why should I direct them to PalmGear to buy it? Why give PalmGear a cut for doing nothing?

And without support/website links at PalmGear, my customers are denied convenient access to support help, technical answers, FAQs, pre-release beta versions, and anything else that might provide a nice service enhancement to them. If they download/purchase from my site, at least they get those.

I realize there isn't really a good scheme to determine who "brought" the buyer to my software. Did they come to me through Google, through PalmGear, through ClieSource, where? Did they download from PalmGear, then buy at my site, or vice-versa? No really good way to know. But I'm willing to let people buy at PalmGear, using a link from my site, if they should choose to, so I think the opposite is fair.

In general, I'd say if people found the software at PalmGear, then 99% of the time they're going to buy it there. Only after PalmGear got the reputation of screwing their developers did people actively seek to pay developers directly. (And who could blame them?) Coincidentally (not), that's when Palmgear got so link-unfriendly and ultimately Nazi-like about their About Box policy. If their reputation wasn't so bad, I'd think they could rely on the good faith principle. Unfortunately, "screw unto others as they have screwed you" seems to apply instead.

The fact is: PalmGear should be *thrilled* to get to list my software (and anyone else's). Not the other way around. They get a big chunk of my income they otherwise would not make. Instead they act like we need them more than they need us. But the fact is: without us, they don't make *anything*.

rzr

I run a company that specializes in Digital asset storage and delivery currently aimed at delivering brand assets,high res products images and artwork.

It would be a very simple matter to skin it for palm software delivery AND we link back to contributors as a matter of course. The system does not bill users.

So a user would download a trial and if they want to purchase, they wouldlink back to the software developers site and purchase. That means you developers need to operate your own ecommerce functions/sites? Is that something you want to do. Hey it's not that hard. Process a payment and email an unlockcode for the trial software.

Seize the day and tell these guys (Handango and PG) where to get off.

If you are interested check out our site at www.e-see.com or contact me.

This might sound a little commercial, but I'm willing to help.

This isn't really that hard to do. I'm guessing that most of you could set this up if you were inclined to.

The biggest problem is getting your brand recognized by Palm users and getting them to your site. Perhaps a collective of Palm developers will get somebodys attention at Palm and elsewhere.

dave the rave

TT is an evolutionary product yet still true to the Palm concept.Brilliant.

The reason that was removed was due to a large number of developers requesting due to spam robots scraping our site for email addresses. The overwhelming solution requested was usage of a form. Additionally by using a form we can then see what products are getting high numbers of communications and thus identify those developers whose software are having higher than normal support issues. This is in other words, besides stopping the scraping of email addresses from our site, quality control. There have been a few developers whose software consistently caused issues on the Palm OS and after then contacting the submitters we were able to find out that they had not received resolution in a large percentage of the cases. In some instances, after contacting the developer directly of course, a title may have been removed from distribution. The data collected is not used for any other purpose, no email addresses submitted via the cotnact forms are added to any lists, etc., etc. They are only reviewed in other words by us in the aggregate.

removing email address is one thing - but, removing a link to the developers website is another. SPAM robots by all means cannot do anything with a http:// link to a website.

there are also other techniques for posting email address:

aaron (at) ardiri (dot) com

and, most people these days know what that means. you can even alter the format on a daily basis to use different brackets/upper/lower case to confuse those SPAM robots.

but, unfortunately, i think the damage has been done.

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

no, i am not getting paid. we relied solely on PGHQ for our sales/distribution - and, when they stopped paying us, we sought other methods for selling - and, pulled all our products for sale from PGHQ website.

since then, we have not received a PENNY for the money owed to us.

> Palmgear could have gone bankrupt and you would not have received a cent.

see my above comment - i have not received a cent.

> Instead, it is attempting to pay it's past due debts.
> You chose either to accept 100% and be paid out
> over time or a lump sum settlement. You did have
> a say in which method you wish to be paid.

actually, i have never been provided the paperwork for this - and, the 100% acceptance crap means we wont see our money for a long time; and, when the money was owed to us, the exchange rate was $1 US = 11 Sek, now, since the economy in the US shat itself, its more like $1 US = 8.5 Sek. see there is a HUGE loss just by currency exchange happening there. since the payments are to be provided at 100% - we effectively get 70-75% of what we were owed.. ie: A LOSS.

> 2. The lawsuit brought by Handango was a BS lawsuit that took
> almost 7 figures to defend. ( I asked)I don't see any
> developer pulling their software from them as a result...

i did. and, the bottom line - if it cost 7 figures - why didn't Kenny West seek assistance from an investor to help fight the lawsuit? why did he use the money which was supposed to be paid to developers to defend the case? this was totally un-ethical, and, it seems that the purchase from PalmSource once again, is using developer money.

PGHQ take X% from the cost of the sale, regardless, that 100-X% should go to the developer, the X% they can use for whatever they like.. such as purchasing assets/defending lawsuits.. whatever..

if you want to argue that if they couldn't fight the lawsuit - well, think of it another way. the developers still would have gotten the 100-X%, and, if PGHQ went bankrupt, the developers would list software elsewhere. ie: only purson hurt here is PalmGear, not the developers..

> They tried to bypass the fee charged by Palmgear, and
> so spoiled it for the rest of you.

we were selling exclusively on PalmGear, how did we spoil this?

> 4. Finally, if you don't want to use Palmgear, then don't.

we dont.. as a result, we also recommend to other developer not to get involved with them in any way possible - they screwed us once, and, they will do it again and again and again!

> Set up your own website, set up your own payment system,

it doesn't cost as much as you say - and, quite frankly, it works for us.. it helps to have a well known name of course - i feel real sorry for the new developers starting to come into the market.

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

the discussion here is not on the american society - but, specifically in regards to PalmGear and it not paying developers the money that is owed to them.

the fact that lawsuits and lawyers seems to rule in the american society doesn't really provide the innocent people any protection against such a thing.

> You do not know that Palmgear is using developer money. You are just
> assuming that they are.

actually, if i do recall correctly, PalmGear did publically admit that they could not pay developers the monies owing because they had to defend a lawsuit from their competitors. that, in itself tells me where our money went.. where else did it go? to guy a nice big car for Kenny West? do you realize how much money flows through PalmGear on a monthly basis? their turn over rate per month is definately in the six-figure basis. they *are* making money, but, how much salary does Kenny et al need? and, these get paid first.

> Usually an idea is presented to an investor, and the investor has agrees
> and fronts the money. Your company does not have a right to change
> the agreement and pay past due bills with it.

of course - but, maybe they shouldn't be putting these types of deals in place while they still have outstanding issues to resolve. this is exactly why they get a reaction like they have here - they need to settle all current dues first, then, worry about how to move forward.

> You decided to pull your software out of the PGHQ. Do you think
> that would put you at the top of the repayment list. I think more
> likely you would go to the bottom.

and, that my friend is discrimination. the money is owed one way or another - it doesn't matter that you currently continue to work with them.

i know quite a few 'bigger cheeses' in the palm community - and, these are people who have the potential to sue PalmGear for late payments. these people actually received payments while the smaller fry (independent/hobbyists) did not yet paid.

> Not all developers were exclusive to Palmgear.

we were - shouldn't that put us higher in the list of 'payee's?

> I seem to remember certain developers who took heat on this website
> for certain methods of advertising and certain software which was
> distributed accidently.

PalmGear needs a totally new management structure. if those people dont remember Ryan, he isn't mr. perfect either. a number of people i know also consider him another Kenny West. the change of management maybe got a bit better - but, not entirely.

while i understand that PalmGear made a mistake, and, are trying to resolve issues - they are going about it the wrong way. it is one thing to pay back developers, and, they have been offering advertising in exchange for monies owed - and, most people have taken that up. the money that is still owed is getting paid back very slowly, and, without interest. this is a bad thing, at least give minimal bank rates.. like 1-2%.. to cover losses in delayed payments.

the problem now is that even with the re-organization, developers are still not getting their payments on a timely fashion - and these are "last months" payments. if you are a developer, and, being part of the commerce market is an interest to you, i would recommend signing up for the PEF forum.

i do business myself - and, PalmGear is cutting corners at every opportunity, and, picking who they want to have fights with on a personal basis. you dont see companies who sell a lot of products complaining - its mainly all the shareware/hobby guys who are not getting their money.. now, if only all the shareware/hobby community would join together and start a lawsuit against PalmGear - i wonder if Handango would sponsor?

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

PS: emulation is *legal*

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/

good question - there are many legal ways to obtain the ROM's; and, regardless of this - its not our issue to worry about. emulation is legal - without emulation being legal, you wouldn't have developer tools such as POSE (PalmOS Emulator) or, be even able to play games that are no-longer being released. do you play MAME? i guess they should be sued/brought down at the same time hey?

> Is it legal for you to release clones on Nintendo's programs? What did Nintendo's legal
> department tell you about this?

clones are legal. use of trademarked characters (donkey kong and mario) is not. Nintendo showed me that they had of course trademarked these and as a result, i removed the software. now, if i did a new version, with different characters/graphics - it would be 100% legal.

> Is it legal for you to clone and then give away a version of Bejeweled in a
> desperate attempt to gain support for your development platform?

desperate? have you seen the bejeweled clone?
we have been so busy with the new development platform that we haven't even had a chance to finish the demo. and, there are many bejeweled clones out there, many free, some CHARGE for it.

so, how about grilling those people as well?

next thing i'll hear is that will grill mobile wizardry about having a tetris clone, which was in fact developed by one of our partners who just licensed our multi platform engine. time to start pushing the blame/flames elsewhere buddy.

i surely must be #1 on the 'lets troll someone' list - i doubt my position has really moved down since it all started back in 2000. i guess that tells you something as well, regardless how much you troll, i wont be going away. our development efforts please more people than we annoy. and, this is the Internet, expect to get flamed/ridiculed - freedom of speech some call it.

flaming is just another way to give us more PR. the more PR we get, the more attention/sales we make. for every comment you post, we potentially make a few dollors.. thanks :)

// az
aaron@ardiri.com
http://www.ardiri.com/
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/