Comments on: Palm Inc Reports Higher Revenues
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RE: Way to go
actually this year sony focused heavily on hi-end devices what was mistake since there are SO many users having palm os4 devices like clie T series / SJ series and m1xx series and m5xx series on palm side, these people want upgrade, but don't want to spent $500+ for their upgrade ..
and except for sony TG50 what is actually great device but with very less promotion sony didn't introduce any really affordable palm ( I don't take SJ33 for serious in times when zire71 hit the street)
Palm is Dead!
I can't wait for the T3...
RE: Palm is Dead!
It also looks like around 1.1 million total PalmOS units (all licensees combined) were sold last quarter.
I am reminded of the next-to-be victim in the middle of a cannonical horrer movie; you know, the one who says "well now the creature/monster is finally dead". Whoops!
RE: Palm is Dead!
RE: Palm is Dead!
LOL...
RE: Palm is Dead!
If you go back to "Pen Windows" (1991) and "WinPad", etc., they are well past 3 tries.
RE: Palm is Dead!
Anyway, what is LOL? I could easily figure out IMHO and FYI but Ihaven't been able to get LOL.
____________________________________________
Former Tapwave's Helix fan, now a T|T3 fan.
RE: Palm is Dead!
"By mid next year PPC will have the same market share as POS. 51 vs 35 now."
LOL...
PDA market is not expected to grow faster than the number of PDA PPC and POS are putting out into the market. Palm has been consistently loosing marketshare, while PPC gaining at steady clip. The parity number is based on hord of cheaper than POS sub $199 PPC going to be introduced late this fall. So yeah... Look for 45%-45% market share or near this number between christmast to early summer next year.
RE: Palm is Dead!
Ska: If Palm is consistently losing market share as per your comment, how can they report a steady improvement in their fiscal figures?
For the next few months don't forget the impact of the Garmin PDA+GPS, the Sony UX series, the Tapwave Zodiac and the new palms... at least you can grant me that Palm OS has a (by far) more diverse offer. Or are you son biased by M$...
____________________________________________
Former Tapwave's Helix fan, now a T|T3 fan.
RE: Palm is Dead!
The initial successful entrant into the market will have huge growth numbers that slow over time, in percentage terms, unit sales may still be ramping up. A successful new entrant (PPC) will start to show higher growth numbers as well and increase its market share, and spurn the original entrant on to better products (Palm).
To me it looks like there's room for both, and more, players in the future. Ironically, P1 is more or less taking the path originally taken by the PC market or VHS (open architecture or licencing) while PPC is fairly closed (like Apple or Beta). Which method has proven more successful?
RE: Palm is Dead!
PPC had its chance when palm was stuck on dragonball and low res/black and white. Those days are ancient history now
RE: PocketPC is dead
Got Palm? Don't keep it, flaunt it!
T2 the second highest sell ?
I just wonder if it's not a mistake, as it seems unlickely for me that such a new product would oversell the TT ? And that would also mean the TT did not sold well.
Just wondering....
I don't get it
It's not like they report 12 million cars sold in the USA this year, adding to a grand total of 1.3 billion (whatever the number may be) cars ever manufactured.
On second thought, I suppose Ford, VW, and Toyota do get excited when they make their millionth Model T or Golf or Corolla.
RE: I don't get it
Wow!
That is one hell of an improvement.
RE: Wow!
I expect the Oct 1 PDAs to really help Palm get back into the black. The low end low cost models will be very popular. The Tungsten 3 will fight the HP 2210 which is selling like crazy. I pray that the Tungsten 3 is 400mhz.
RE: Wow!
RE: Wow!
Got Palm? Don't keep it, flaunt it!
RE: Wow!
Tungsten model has been dead in the water since introduction, It can't compete in mid range.
And now Zire 71 is under direct treat form V36 ($199, built in camera) and X3 ($150 thin low end)
TT3, Z21, and TE are odd upgrade. Those have no wireless(WiFi), mediocre pricing, under spec.
RE: Wow!
You should stop smoking the whacky-tobacky. Reality isn't bearing out your predictions.
50/50 split between Palm handhelds and PPC by next year? lololololololololol!
RE: Palm Envy from PPC Fanboy
And stop touting the ViewSonic and hp 19xxs. Neither will have screens as good as the TT3. And let's see how many people wail over that 4xxx with BT & WiFi -- when they discover the bottom connector *still* can't be used with a keyboard!
RE: Wow!
That'll probably be his next handle: Miss Information!
RE: Wow!
PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
What I really would like to know is whether the $200 sales are really making any money for anyone on the PPC side. They are certainly costing Palm OS makers market share. Why are Dell, Toshiba, and HP selling these models at no profit? Why don't they join the Palm OS and sell Palm OS models with similar specs at no profit? Palm says it in enjoying a gross margin of 28% on their average sale. Dell pays WisTron $170 for each low end Axim and usually sells it for $175. If they did exactly the same for a Palm OS model I would buy one for each member of my family. I saw an HP 1910 for sale yesterday at BuyDig for $226. Shipping was free and after rebate that is $176. 64 MB, full multimedia, nice color, tiny, swappable battery. What kind of ARM Palm can you get for that?
Dell executives recently said they were astounded at the profit margins on handhelds compared to desktops. Again, Dell, Emachines, and finally HP, are selling desktops at virtually no profit. Like grocery stores their margins are 2-3%. Why is Palm's margin 28% and how do they still manage to show losses overall?
I don't know whether I am more mad at the Palm OS makers for not competing on price or more perplexed by all the PPC makers increasing production in the face of selling each model with no profit or even a loss.
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
2. Dell's PDAs are obviously not Dell's main business, just part of an overall one-stop-shopping services/PC-centric strategy.
3. Dell choose PPC because he thinks that's the future of the market and he thinks that's what most of his customers want.
Michael Dell knows what he's doing. He's not 38 and worth $13 Billion for nothing.
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
Why the merger??? Can you say "converged devices"? The Treo 600 is only the beginning. Next generation will be running RIM software btw. Now you can try laughing.
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
-- no, ska, *everyone else* has figured it out. Just *you*, you dope, can't. When will you go away? Can you promise us to contract SARS this winter?
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
2. Dell's PDAs are obviously not Dell's main business, just part of an overall one-stop-shopping services/PC-centric strategy.
3. Dell choose PPC because he thinks that's the future of the market and he thinks that's what most of his customers want.
Michael Dell knows what he's doing. He's not 38 and worth $13 Billion for nothing.
Everything you wrote is correct. In addition, Microsoft leveraged its (uneasy) relationship with Dell in an attempt to legitimize the PPC platform and solidify its presence in the business world.
Microsoft + partners will simply buy marketshare, damage Palm and then raise prices once PPC has become the dominant OS. What is occurring now - subsidization of hardware - can best be viewed as an "investment" in the future. This shows the type of long range thinking that until recently Palm seemed incapable of. The type of thinking that allows companies to sustain their revenue streams.
Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
If Palm markets the Treo 600 + offspring well, they could have a new business model that can sustain the company for the next few years. Palm knows all too well thet regular (stand alone) PDAs are a dead end and these will supply rapidly decreasing revenues in the coming year. But given their past performance, it seems likely that Palm will once again squander the advantage they currently have over PPC and Symbian-based devices.
Palm can't count on brand loyalty to sustain itself. If the typical consumer has the choice between a $200 device and a $400 device that do essentially the same thing, guess which one they'll pick?
Palm should never have licensed their OS to other companies.
Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
RIM software is about as attractive as Graffiti 1 is these days. One of the reasons Palms cost how much they do is to finance the company's legal department...
Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
They do make money. The bigger picture relates to how these companies interact with Microsoft (which needs to tread lightly given thier previous problems with antitrust charges) and Microsoft's vision of a monopoly marketplace. Palm's continued survival in the face of the Microsoft-backed onslaught is a testimony to how well-conceived the Palm OS was. The Palm OS has been able to do exactly what it needs to do, quickly and reliably. Unfortunately for Palm, as PDAs evolved, their OS failed to keep up.
Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
And why does everyone seem to think standalone PDAs are a dead end? I'd much rather have one that a cell phone combo or what not...
RE: PPC vs Palm Profit Questions?
Hear, hear! Even if I get a Treo 600; it'd be an adjunct to a TT3.
Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
you dope
When will you go away? Can you promise us to contract SARS this winter?
Does anyone else find it odd that only one person posting here (you know who he/she is) seems to constantly resort to feeble insults when he/she encounters an opinion different from his/hers? While everyone else tries to post their feelings without tiresome insults, this individual is apparently so insecure that he/she needs to denigrate the opinions of others.
It seems bizarre that the editor(s) of this site condone this type of post. Perhaps it's time to remind posters to show some basic etiquette in posting. The insults made from the security of a home computer are reminiscent of a "brave" poodle barking at strangers from behind a car window. Put the poodle face to face with someone in the real world and watch how suddenly they become silent...
Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
Alas. It is gone and probably isn't coming back.
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
P.S. Foo Fighter is a handheld genius. He is all knowing and all seeing. We should listen to his opinion as he is a great thinker of our time. People here can learn a lot from him. All hail the great Foo Fighter.
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
Stupid ska!
-Bosco
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
I try to clean up when I can but can't always catch everything when it happens.
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
Or..where does he find all this free time to spend on trolling various message boards (he is everywhere)? He seems to spend all day preaching about Pocket PC, I doubt he even has time left to actually use his own PPC.
-------------------------------
My blog: www.pocketfactory.com
RE: Why does PIC allow these abusive posts?
I don't see anyone else objecting to my calling that creep ska a dripnose.
Gee, "Ugly," could you two be related?
PalmOne's Market Share
I don't see how people, in the long run, can justify buying PPCs instead of Tungstens Ts. Here is 1 good example:
My mom is in town & I was at Wal Mart yesterday. I carried my HP2210 with me. We needed to calculate some stuff & jot down some product info. I pulled out my HP2210 and 1- nearly dropped it trying to get the stylus out. 2- took several seconds to find the calculator 3- was forced to use the stylus to hit the numbers. Same complicated ordeal to takes notes.
It was right then, while my mom was watching how overly complicated this PDA/OS was that I realized that Palm Tungstens are far superior for the human hand and human mind on the go. I was standing there wishing I had my T|T. It is more compact. The stylus is easy to reach, I could of launched the calculator in 2 secs by using "5nav launcher" (with the D-pad) and I can even just use my fingers to use the calculator (since the screen is MUCH more sensitive than the HP2210). Jotting down prices and titles is also much easier with Jot and PalmOS.
Regarless, the HP 2210 is selling alot. Everyone in IRC PocketPC channels seems to own one. I bought many PDAs and have always ultimately been unsatisfied by PPCs. My best experiences have been with the M515 and the Tungsten Ts. I greatly respect the ergonomic design that PalmOne developped for some models. I think it would be total nonsense and retrograde if consumers do not massively buy the new Oct 1 line of PalmOne PDAs. The T|E, Zire 21 and T|3 seem amazing.
I will be buying the T|T3 and I will not be going back to PPC anytime soon. I really hope the masses don't let Microsoft branding fool them. Its all about design and ease of use, and Tungsten models are way ahead of the pack.
RE: PalmOne's Market Share
I had a Mako for 4 month, a mono Ipaq ($60 at Circuit City closeout PPC2000) for 10 months or so. I got a Clie NR 70V in May of 2002, and tried another PPC (A Zayo, arguably the fastest of any PPC 2002 model) for a week last month.
The Zayo had some stellar software, TextMaker, Bible Reader, and the fantastic paint/draw programs were miles ahead of Palm OS. They were very close to desktop stuff.
But, honestly going back to Windows Mobile was PAINFULLY SLOW. I thought I would scream every time I tried to launch a program and that swirly circle came up. On my Clie I have only two times when I wait for even a second or two. When I have more than 50 documents showing in the WordSMith directory at launch it takes too long to scan and sort all of them. I am also stymied by Noah Pro with the dictionary on the card. This is especially galling as I paid the $20 to save the space in RAM and now I find myself wanting to go back to the free Noah lite. And it didn't save me the whole 1.7 meg.
I digress. The way programs are accessed, the time it takes them to open, the everything just seems clunky and slow on the PPC. I am at a complete loss to explain how PPC is gaing on Palm OS models in sales. I just don't think I could stand to use one unless it had at least 5 times the speed of the current models.
I like the way PPC handles real files, has all the features on every model (colapsable text entry area was perfectly implemented, sound, color, recorder, D-pads) and the PPCs are incredibly cheap per hardware spec, but I don't see me getting another one any time soon.
RE: PalmOne's Market Share
PPC manufacturers provide hardware with better value than Palm OS manufacturers. Palm decided several years ago that they could not afford to - or didn't need to - sacrifice profits for market share. Whether or not that was a mistake will soon be obvious to everyone. It's all about Microcoft et. al. buying their way into the market with the intention of killing off the competition. Remember when Netscape was superior to Internet Explorer? If you look what happened (over the course of only two years) in the browser wars, you will understand what is happening in the PDA wars. Superior design often has little to do with success in business, as PSION now knows all too well. It's all about marketing, buyer perception and using influence on distributors to ensure that critical mass of product sales occurs.
Palm could easily have become the de facto standard for PDAs that Windows is on desktops, but they have now missed the five year window of opportunity they had.
Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™
RE: PalmOne's Market Share
What I find truly disturbing is the venom that certain people post with, the metality of "different = evil" and that if people don't think exactly alike or have the same opinions that they are somehow stupid, misled, or outright challenging someone personally and opening themselves for attack. It's like watching the news and seeing minorities that are the victims of hate crimes, though instead of religion, skin color, or who you decide to have your jollies with, it's now what PDA you use that sends some people into a rage.
Obviously I don't rank PDA zealots in the same league as criminals, but it's just sad that humans have a tendency to go ballistic at differences, rather than peacefully sharing ideas, comparing notes, and enjoying the intellectual banter of people approaching problems with different tools and different ideas, and appreciating the experiences reported therein.
Okay, that came off a little more "Peace, love and a sunflower for everyone's van" than I intended, but honestly, some people can spoil anything by being totally incapable of dealing with something that's different from their own way of thinking. And this isn't relegated to just PPC vs. Palm (mirroring the PC vs. Macs wars that have been going on even longer) - it's Sony vs. PalmOne, OS versions, Graffiti versions, Input panel type, etc. Does anyone miss the good ol' days when it was fun to be a handheld geek? :-)
I define myself as a gadget freak more than a devout and unthinking follower of any one OS or platform. I own both Palm and Pocket PC's (and as my name suggests, I still even have my old Newtons!). :-)There are areas where the Palm is unquestionably better and easier, and others where the Pocket PC outshines or outpowers it. And to clarify: I am not saying it IS this way, I am saying it is my opinion or personal experience that I am reporting.
Sometimes when I read the difficulty someone has with a Pocket PC, it oftentimes seems obvious that its due to a lack of familiarity with the platform. Similarly, when I read negative posts on PPC-centric boards about Palms, it typically is simply ignorance or hearsay rather than actual experience. Since it's doubtful someone will make a website that only allows member postings from users that own both devices *and* are fairly proficient with both, then biased opinions that are *not* based on real world experience will probably continue to be the (sad) norm. For now, let's all try to rise above the nasty junior high lunch room level banter and see beyond it to fun that our hobby can be!
RE: PalmOne's Market Share
What I find truly disturbing is the venom that certain people post with, the metality of "different = evil" and that if people don't think exactly alike or have the same opinions that they are somehow stupid, misled, or outright challenging someone personally and opening themselves for attack. It's like watching the news and seeing minorities that are the victims of hate crimes, though instead of religion, skin color, or who you decide to have your jollies with, it's now what PDA you use that sends some people into a rage.
Obviously I don't rank PDA zealots in the same league as criminals, but it's just sad that humans have a tendency to go ballistic at differences, rather than peacefully sharing ideas, comparing notes, and enjoying the intellectual banter of people approaching problems with different tools and different ideas, and appreciating the experiences reported therein.
Okay, that came off a little more "Peace, love and a sunflower for everyone's van" than I intended, but honestly, some people can spoil anything by being totally incapable of dealing with something that's different from their own way of thinking. And this isn't relegated to just PPC vs. Palm (mirroring the PC vs. Macs wars that have been going on even longer) - it's Sony vs. PalmOne, OS versions, Graffiti versions, Input panel type, etc. Does anyone miss the good ol' days when it was fun to be a handheld geek? :-)
I define myself as a gadget freak more than a devout and unthinking follower of any one OS or platform. I own both Palm and Pocket PC's (and as my name suggests, I still even have my old Newtons!). :-)There are areas where the Palm is unquestionably better and easier, and others where the Pocket PC outshines or outpowers it. And to clarify: I am not saying it IS this way, I am saying it is my opinion or personal experience that I am reporting.
Sometimes when I read the difficulty someone has with a Pocket PC, it oftentimes seems obvious that its due to a lack of familiarity with the platform. Similarly, when I read negative posts on PPC-centric boards about Palms, it typically is simply ignorance or hearsay rather than actual experience. Since it's doubtful someone will make a website that only allows member postings from users that own both devices *and* are fairly proficient with both, then biased opinions that are *not* based on real world experience will probably continue to be the (sad) norm. For now, let's all try to rise above the nasty junior high lunch room level banter and see beyond it to fun that our hobby can be!
RE: PalmOne's Market Share
RE: PalmOne's Market Share
While the Palm platform has more options for a given software category, PPC now has a number of excellent apps that can either compete with or surpass their Palm equivalents. (It doesn't matter if Palm OS has 20,000 apps if 19,000 of them are not worth the download time.)
PPC's main problem is that the OS is not as stable or intuitive as the Palm OS. Even this disadvantage won't matter if/when Microsoft starts giving away PPCs to Windows customers.
Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™
3% Revenue Growth Sucks
Latest Comments
- I got one -Tuckermaclain
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- RE: Palm brand will return in 2018, with devices built by TCL -dmitrygr
- Palm phone on HDblog -palmato
- Palm PVG100 -hgoldner
- RE: Like Deja Vu -PacManFoo
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Way to go
Way to go, should be a good 2nd quarter leading into Cristmas season with good products coming out.
Maybe my Handspring shares will finally be worth something post-merger. :)