Comments on: Palm Releases J2ME Java Runtime for Tungstens

Palm today made IBM's WebSphere Micro Environment (WME) Java 2 Micro Edition (J2ME) certified runtime environment available for Tungsten handheld users. The new runtime opens up thousands of J2ME applications and provides a resource for the more than 3 million Java developers.

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Zire 71?

kevdo @ 10/2/2003 10:28:31 AM #

I know the Tungsten line is the enterprise brand, and I'd be fine with Palm bundling this with Tungsten and not with the Zire 71, but why not even make it available as a paid download for Zire 71 users? Heck, it has a faster processor than the T|E!

Do the right thing, Palm.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Zire 71?

Edward Green @ 10/2/2003 10:47:51 AM #

Wonder how much Stack it needs? The Zire71 may be short.

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

RE: Zire 71?

Palm101 @ 10/3/2003 3:55:25 PM #

I doubt it, it runs on my m505 just fine.

Just Tungsten?

dulinor @ 10/2/2003 10:29:10 AM #

I can't tell if the software will only run on Tungstens or is only *free* for Tungsten users. Any chance this will run on other OS 5 hardware? Even if it costs money?

RE: Just Tungsten?

ganoe @ 10/2/2003 11:54:27 AM #

The one page seems to imply that it doesn't even work on the original Tungsten T (says it's "not supported" anyhow). E-mail them and ask, but I'm sure they'll say it's not supported. Maybe someone with access to multiple devices will try it out.

You can always try the older J2ME MIDP 1.0 implementation from Sun.
http://java.sun.com/products/midp4palm/download.html

RE: Just Tungsten?

painted_dog @ 10/2/2003 1:09:00 PM #

No, just every other tungsten except the original TT. Dude this sucks ! i'm sorry to say it, but how lame is that, even the TW running OS 4.1.1 gets it, but doe the original bad boy? heck no. I'd be interested in the reason why. Especially since it seems like OS verison doesn't matter. & to muddy things for my own understanding, aside from the OS version there is like no difference between TT & TT2 [save for the the screen] its the same processor.

Oh well, i have Z2 on order !!

-painted dog

RE: Just Tungsten?

ewan @ 10/3/2003 9:10:31 AM #

It works fine on a TT. I downloaded the developer kit a week or two ago for my TT and it is fine. Does not seem much faster than Sun's RI though but I have not done any real benchmarking.

RE: Just Tungsten?

ganoe @ 10/3/2003 4:38:01 PM #

> Does not seem much faster than Sun's RI though

Actually, if you read the FAQ on Palm's pages for this, it says that the performance is about the same as Sun's.

http://pluggedin.palm.com/regac/pluggedin/JavaFAQ.jsp

They imply that future versions will perform better.

Thousands of applications?

ganoe @ 10/2/2003 11:47:48 AM #

Anyone care to provide some links?

RE: Thousands of applications?

helf @ 10/2/2003 12:24:05 PM #

Are you new to palm? :)

Theres...

www.palmgear.com
www.palmspot.com
www.palmblvd.com
www.freewarepalm.com
www.palmgamingworld.com
www.pdagreen.com
www.handango.com

Plus others.. Theres well over 19,000 palm programs out.. Bad thing is 17,000 of those are crap pdatoolbox apps or what not and are not worth even looking at.. All in all, I say theres maybe 1-2thousand decent palm apps... If that many.

RE: Thousands of applications?

helf @ 10/2/2003 12:27:38 PM #

erm.. This is what I get for clicking on a post listed in 'latest posts' without reading the article.. >_<

Sorry about that :P Look on google for java apps.

http://google.com/search?q=J2ME%20games

RE: Thousands of applications?

kevdo @ 10/2/2003 2:15:41 PM #

Uh, I believe the reference was to thousands of J2ME applications -- not Palm applications.

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Thousands of applications?

helf @ 10/2/2003 2:21:34 PM #

No duh! Did you not even read my second post? I corrected myself.

RE: Thousands of applications?

arielb @ 10/3/2003 5:28:08 PM #

how many apps for windows are half decent I wonder

Midp 1?

enjolras @ 10/2/2003 12:44:57 PM #

It appears to me that this is a MIDP 1.0 implementation, with MIDP 2.0 finalized (and phones starting to actually ship it) why doesn't this implement the newer standard?

RE: Midp 1?

ganoe @ 10/2/2003 2:21:50 PM #

Yep, it's CLDC 1.0, MIDP 1.0; it's dated. As I said when this came up a week or so ago here in an article, MIDP 1.0 has been available from Sun for Palm for over a year now. The only real news is that Palm has licensed a VM from IBM that they can actually include with their (Tungsten non-original T) PDAs. Unfortunately, they seem to be making people download it. I was hoping these new models would have it pre-installed.

If you read the FAQ, they plan to have CLDC 1.1, MIDP 2.0 available by the end of the year. Even sounds like it may be native ARM code.
http://pluggedin.palm.com/regac/pluggedin/JavaFAQ.jsp

The problem IMHO is that they should be working on J2ME CDC Personal Profile. CLDC was designed for devices with < 200KB available to support Java, and MIDP provides a very limited API. That was great for Palm OS 4 and earlier devices. CDC Personal Profile was designed for the types of devices we're seeing with the Palm OS today. It has much greater compatability with all kinds of existing Java code. If Palm moved in that direction, they would've taken a huge jump in front of Pocket PC in terms of Java.

performance?

strannik @ 10/2/2003 5:21:59 PM #

has anybody tested it out yet?
i've always found stuff written in jave rather slow

RE: performance?

enjolras @ 10/3/2003 10:59:53 AM #

There are some really good J2ME games out there (http://www.gameloft.com for example)...

Not to mention that a large part of the heavy duty web applications are written in java.

There are even some very very very good client side Java apps (http://www.eclipse.org is one complex development tool.. and it runs very fast).

SuperWaba

spg66 @ 10/3/2003 2:15:40 PM #

So what's the diff between this and SuperWaba?

note that it's not preinstalled/universal

mj6798 @ 10/3/2003 8:49:51 PM #

Note that you don't get Java across their entire line and that they don't preinstall it. The reason is that the last thing Palm wants is a lot of Java development for Palm: Palm still thinks that by maintaining proprietary APIs, they can end up owning a large chunk of the market. I think they are miscalculating in the long run...

Java phones

kaiallard @ 10/3/2003 10:23:56 PM #

There are many games on java enabled nokia phones and i wonder if it is possible to run them on palm OS?

RE: Java phones

ewan @ 10/4/2003 5:23:51 AM #

As long as they don't use nokia specific extensions then they should work... You just need to use the IBM package tools to convert the jar/jad to a prc.

It's a sad thing for TT Users...

vesther @ 10/4/2003 6:22:25 PM #

It's a sad situation for all those poor Tungsten T Users there because since the J2ME excludes Zire and Tungsten T Users (The Tungsten T has been retired according to the Palm's Handheld Hall of Fame), it might get scolded by some of the users who want this J2ME on other handhelds and not on only the Tungstens, excluding the original Tungsten T. Although this J2ME was meant for Tungsten Handhelds excluding the Tungsten T, at least IBM should've made the WebSphere Micro Environment operable with Zire 71 Handhelds as well because Zire 71 fits into a category where you might need some extra caffeine at times. IMO Palm wanted the Memory Minimum at an On-Handheld Basis to be at least 32MB before the Handheld can accept Java Operations, and I think the fact that this is biased towards the Tungsten Handhelds and not being aimed to the Zire 71 or Tungsten T Handheld aswell is totally suspect.

My Primary Handheld: Palm Tungsten C "Air Swallow"
My Secondary Handheld: Palm Tungsten T "Sea Chugger"

RE: It's a sad thing for TT Users...

rizgar40 @ 10/9/2003 10:20:21 AM #

Is it really not possible to install java virtual machine on Zire handlets?

MIDP or CLDC??

jaskeh85 @ 9/20/2005 3:22:26 AM #

can anyone tell is use MIDP or CLDC to write a java application for my Tungsten C?

can any one tell me is to use MIDP or CLDC for writing a java application for my palm? or download MIDP will consist a CLDC?