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Comments on: Kinoma Launches New Video Suite

Kinoma has announced the first major update to Kinoma Player 2 and Kinoma Producer 2, the leading video solution for Palm Powered handhelds. The new version features high res widescreen display, DivX support, Bluetooth and streaming movies from the Internet.
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Exciting times...

shurcooL @ 10/15/2003 11:39:29 PM #
Wow, can barely wait before I can watch DivX movies on my future Zodiac. :) Just hope it won't drain the battery too much (ie. last 1.5 full length movies, or more).

thanks,
shurcooL
Whatever
JonathanChoo @ 10/16/2003 5:03:06 AM #
I believe more in MMPlayer because being able to directly play native DivX format from my card is more important. I have spent hours decoding my DVDs to 320x240 resolution (so I can watch it on both PocketPC and Archos AV340), I am not going to decode it for Kinoma. MMPlayer is still a little buggy but I guess I can wait. Once it matures like Pocket MVP for PocketPC, it will be the best DivX player for PalmOS.

Psion 5/Motorola StarTac -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Sony N770C -> Sony T625C -> Sony NR70V/Ericsson T39m -> Toshiba e310 -> Palm Tungsten T/Ericsson T68m -> HP h2210 -> Palm Tungsten T/3/Ericsson T610
RE: Exciting times...
Nate @ 10/17/2003 10:29:50 AM #
Good point. Unless I can rip right to Kinoma format from a DVD (a feature I doubt they include in their suite) then why would I want this? I don't want to encode twice...

MMPlayer rocks!
iJITSU @ 10/17/2003 11:30:22 AM #
I'm with you, brother. MMplayer renders the BEST video I've seen on a PDA (or I should say that it's identical to Sony's Movie Player). Yes, it's still buggy and a work in progress, but it get more stable with each release and currently you can just copy over mpeg, avi, and divx to an SD card and just play them with no conversion. Also, you can rotate the video or instantly resize it with just the touch of a hard button. I love it and already registered because I want to help the guys get to a more stable version.

"It's In", the hungry Palm Handheld says....

vesther @ 10/16/2003 12:08:15 AM #
Updated my Kinoma Player on my Palm Tungsten C "Eurenzannig" just now.

Can't wait to try it out....

In a Desolate Forest, an enchanted Palm-Powered Handheld is waiting to possess a helpless soul in the wake--The Palm-Powered Handheld's name is EURENZANNIG.

Stream only Kinoma format?

gfunkmagic @ 10/16/2003 12:55:01 AM #
Is that correct? If so...what's the point of that? Who's gonna support streaming kinoma format? I guess we're gonna have to wait until mmplayer to implement this..

Visit http://goodthatway.com/
-better living through better technology.

Not much new here...

RiddlerG4 @ 10/16/2003 4:05:30 AM #
The formats Kinoma can convert to entirely relies on what Apple's QuickTime supports so Kinoma has not expanded the number of supported formats, Apple has.

To me this looks like they've tweaked the interface of the desktop app (which was poor to start with) and added streaming support which is not that useful.

As a registered owner of 1.5 I don't feel that this update is worthy of a 2.0 release (v1.6 maybe) or more importantly a $19.99 upgrade fee.


RE: Not much new here...
Edward Green @ 10/16/2003 7:30:18 AM #
Having downloaded 2 I discover it overwrites my registered 1.5 installation. Where can I download 1.5?



Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

RE: Not much new here...
Altema @ 10/16/2003 8:50:08 PM #
"Having downloaded 2 I discover it overwrites my registered 1.5 installation. Where can I download 1.5"

1.5 is not listed on their website, you may have to fire off an email to Kinoma Support to get it.

Crrraaassshhhh!

snark @ 10/16/2003 5:06:25 AM #
Kinoma Player 2.0 crashes on my SJ33. Version 1.5 just worked fine. Too bad!
RE: Crrraaassshhhh!
Strider_mt2k @ 10/21/2003 7:32:43 AM #
The new version is rockin' on my SJ33, and I'm running MS Mount, a couple of DAs, and half a dozen hacks.

If anything, it seems to be running smoother for me.
I like the updated interface too.



WARNING

charleski @ 10/16/2003 7:21:26 AM #
WARNING

Don't buy Kinoma producer thinking it will allow you to view divx-encoded movies on your Palm.
It appears that all the update has done is add a few lines of code to allow the Producer end on the PC to read divx. The end result is still encoded using the ancient Cinepak codec. In Kinoma-speak "Encoding of DivX, QuickTime, MPEG-1, MPEG-4" means DECODING of those formats in the Producer before mauling the video with Cinepak.

I'm a bit disappointed that the news item didn't explain this critical point but simply transcribed the press-release.

RE: WARNING
shurcooL @ 10/16/2003 8:22:48 AM #
Well, isn't that disappointing? :(

Thanks,
shurcooL
RE: WARNING
sub_tex @ 10/16/2003 9:01:46 AM #
great. so we can have the filesize of our divx .avis balloon to huge Kinoma pdbs. *sigh*

One day PalmOS will get video right. let's hope it's OS6.

It's not the OS
madmaxmedia @ 10/16/2003 12:30:07 PM #
It's not the OS, it's the software. Kinoma is based on an outdated codec, the only benefit is that it runs on older, slower Palms.

I'm sure better video support will be in OS 6, but we don't have to wait for a Palm version of "Windows Media Player". MMPlayer is coming along very nicely, and will play many different formats including DIVX.


RE: WARNING
sub_tex @ 10/16/2003 7:40:21 PM #
"but we don't have to wait for a Palm version of 'Windows Media Player'"

God no. WMP is the last thing I want on my PDA. If it's all just software now, then great.

Just give us native file type support.

If that other app is doing it then more power to them. Let's hope they get support in updates.

RE: WARNING
Altema @ 10/16/2003 8:54:49 PM #
"Don't buy Kinoma producer thinking it will allow you to view divx-encoded movies on your Palm."

Where did you get that impression? I read the article and did not think for a minute that you could dump a divx movie on your Palm and watch it. However, THAT would be cool.

RE: WARNING
JonathanChoo @ 10/17/2003 6:28:15 AM #
You can do that with MMPlayer. It is not free but you can literally dump your DiVX into the SD card and view it. The latest version works full screen with the T3 although you would have to rotate it first on your desktop. All my DivX files are rotated anyway because I used them on Pocket MVP (PocketPC DivX player) and found that if you rotate the files first on your PC, it plays smoother on your PDA.

Psion 5 -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Sony N770C -> Sony T625C -> Sony NR70V -> Toshiba e310 -> Palm Tungsten T -> HP h2210 -> Palm Tungsten T3

Motorola StarTAC -> Ericsson T28m -> Ericsson T39m -> Ericsson T68m -> Ericsson T610

RE: WARNING
iJITSU @ 10/17/2003 11:45:27 AM #
yes, you can. Go Choo, it's ya birthday!

RE: WARNING
iJITSU @ 10/17/2003 11:46:25 AM #
Actually, you no longer have to rotate it on the desktop. You can just hit one of the hard buttons to rotate in on the Palm. Works great.

RE: WARNING
charleski @ 10/17/2003 2:02:42 PM #
Altema, I got that impression when I read Kinoma's own words saying "Encoding of Divx". What do you think that means? I think it means ENCODING. Instead, it turns out that Kinoma lied and their product material is grossly misrepresentative. Don't try to get smart.

You can view divx-coded movies with MMPlayer, and people have been able to view divx-coded clips on PPCs for a long time. Why should Palm be inferior?

RE: WARNING
aardvarko @ 10/18/2003 3:28:04 PM #
I don't think you understand the words "encoding" and "decoding".

-aardvarko
webmaster at aardvarko dot com
http://aardvarko.com

No free or cheap upgrade

jbarr @ 10/16/2003 9:07:22 AM #
For those who purchased v1.x, be aware that an upgrade to v2 costs $19.95. Personally, I think that's a bit steep for a Palm application, but others may disagree.

Kinoma on the Sony UX's?

jamesgood72 @ 10/16/2003 9:47:14 AM #
Does anybody know how this works on the Sony UX models? Does it play as efficiently as the built in player (i.e. using the hardware assist)? Does it support the 480x320 resolution? Does it support 30fps playback?

Thanks, appologies if this has already been addressed...

-James.

RE: Kinoma on the Sony UX's?
iebnn @ 10/16/2003 1:20:35 PM #
Not worth it, the Cinepak codec that Kinoma uses is awful. Stick with the UX video player/encoder, it's a whole lot better.

Content on Kinoma is a joke

alexp @ 10/16/2003 10:13:15 AM #
I would think that if Kinoma wants people to take their product more seriously, they might offer more substantial content on their site that would exhibit the possibilities of the program. Their sample content is extraordinarily weak. What's more, their "Trailers" link takes you to a Sony Pictures page that clearly hasn't been updated in over a year. Not the best advertising.

Two versions of 2.0?

bmckenzie @ 10/16/2003 1:44:50 PM #
My Tungsten T3 shipped with Kimona Palyer 2 before the "release today". It also shipped with Kimona Producer version 2 - but not the same as the version 2 that is downloadble as a trial today. I presume T3 buyers get a crippled version; the version annouced today has more features. Curiously, when I downloaded the v2 Producer it did not enable me to select T3 widescreen mode.

Anyone no what the deal is here with the 2 differing versions of 2?

RE: Two versions of 2.0?
JKingGrim @ 10/16/2003 2:45:54 PM #
Palm does not use the marketed producer. It has a different one.

RE: Two versions of 2.0?
Altema @ 10/16/2003 8:29:54 PM #
Palm ships version 2.0 in ROM. The commercial version of Kinoma is 2.0.3. Not sure of the differences, as they both support hi-res+ and stereo. Possibly they few a few bug fixes in or enhancements. The publisher is drastically different. The bundled version is a no brainer that results in um, sort of OK quality, with no control over produced video save the choices for small, large, and widescreen. No stereo, and no audio options. The comercial version lets you control everything from bit rate and framerate, to movie layout, background images and colors, and audio preferences including stereo.

RE: Two versions of 2.0?
JonathanChoo @ 10/17/2003 6:31:00 AM #
I am not going to waste my RAM over this new version. Kinoma uses old legacy cinepak codec and I am not impress. I was impress when it first came out and used it on the NR70V but after using DivX on PocketPC I think MMPlayer is the only way to go. Kinoma files are very big, blocky and not compatible with other PDAs.

Psion 5 -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Sony N770C -> Sony T625C -> Sony NR70V -> Toshiba e310 -> Palm Tungsten T -> HP h2210 -> Palm Tungsten T3

Motorola StarTAC -> Ericsson T28m -> Ericsson T39m -> Ericsson T68m -> Ericsson T610

Specs

rogerkang @ 10/16/2003 3:02:40 PM #
I just bought it last night...couldn't wait. Maybe I should have...
:(

Well, here are some specs. For anyone interested, maybe I could mail you a version for $5 to reduce *my* cost. ha! Take that, Kinoma!
:)
j/k...

Encoding up to 30fps.
Bitrate up to 2000kbps

Selectable "wide" format for T3's.

I encoded a Spiderman trailer at 2000 kbps, 15fps, and it looked great...

RE: Specs
Impartial @ 10/16/2003 7:29:32 PM #
You know you can get a free update, then? Just go to their site.

---------------------------------------
You may imagine that this is a witty statement, if you like.

Kinoma should provide a conversion server

treo007 @ 10/16/2003 3:29:34 PM #
If Kinoma can now stream content, they have a golden opportunity to take it one step forward:

Why not provide the ability to send an MPEG, Quicktime, Divx, etc. file you received in an email wirelessly to a Kinoma server. This could then convert the video and stream it back. This is the way Inbox to Go/Docs to Go, etc. does it (don't talk to me about native Word and Excel files, it's not ready for prime time yet) and it works great.

Is Kinoma still using Quicktime for everything?

stickboy @ 10/16/2003 8:13:32 PM #
"Kinoma Producer 2 now directly encodes Kinoma movies from [DivX]."

This statement implies that Kinoma Producer is making a special case for DivX. That's a big disappointment to me, since it's really the wrong thing to do. What Kinoma /should/ do instead for the Windows version is to use Windows' own VfW or DirectShow media handlers. Not only would they avoid reinventing the wheel, but they would be able to support a much wider variety of video formats.

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