Comments on: Sony Clie PEG UX50 Review

it was from one of the last phillies games at vetrans stadium in philadelphia

my design ratings defense...
the internal memory system is too fragmented,
lack of certain standard hardware buttons,
the screen is smallish & status LED's are unnecessary,
and the keyboard/navigation software leaves something to be desired.

yes, it is a great new innovative handheld, but it is not perfect.

i'd give 3/5 just for the ram isue. We have PDA's with 128 megs these days. If you want to see real technology then see the zaurus
http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus7xx/index.shtml

I have 16Mb filled up on my Treo in basic applications. You need a few extra MB to load images and software off a VFS card.

I think the UX50 is cutting it a little fine, even though I think that a 29Mb Ram Disk is great.

Edward Green
--
http://www.khite.co.uk

i'd give 3/5 just for the ram isue. We have PDA's with 128 megs these days. If you want to see real technology then see the zaurus

The Zaurus SL-C760's 64 MB RAM, 128 MB FlashRAM and CompactFlash slots are features that I would like to see added to the UX-50. The Zaurus' added bulk (it weighs 9 ounces and is almost an inch longer than the UX-50) is a feature that I wouldn't want to see added to the UX-50. For me, PDA size matters, and smaller is always better. I would be a lot less likely to lug a Zaurus around than carry a UX series or T|T series Palm. Others may feel differently, but there's a reason why small cell phones and small, elegant PDAs like the Palm Vx have sold so well historically. Finally, the Zaurus doesn't run PalmOS. I believe Linux has quite a way to go to become a serious contender in PDAs, just like it's also not quite yet ready for prime time in the desktop world.

Nice try though, and shows what Sony can do with a bit more fine tuning. The UX series is so close to being the perfect PDA - I doubt Sony will make any more mistakes on the second generation UXs.

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

having used the device pretty extensively, i would give it a 2/5 for design. sure it's got a lot of stuff in a small package, but ergonomically i find it to be a nightmare to use, the controls are lousy.

______________________________________
i'm not living, i'm just killing time.

I agree 100% with what you say. I too, spent a great deal of time with this machine at the store. This hasn't been mentioned yet and it's probably no big deal to most but it annoyed the heck out of me, when one scrolls through the applications, the sceen shows this like a slot machine. Everything is curved. (It's visible in one of the photos above.) The cradle is, like you said, bad, bad, bad. I could never get the hand of it, it doesn't go in smooth.
$699 + 8% tax= $754! Without extended War.

Comeon guys, think of what you're saying.
If gaming is what you want, go for the zodiac. Want portrait screen, go for NX/TT3.
This product is for a specific users, who need their palm wirelessly.
Small screen = less power.
Keyboard is the BEST PPC/palm integrated keyboard up to date.
And where the hack they should put a CF slot without getting the device twice the size (CF is the bulkyest flash module exist).
And sure that WiFi, MP3 and full brightness are battery drainer - thats what the extended battery is for.
This device is just great on what it does, and not ment to be something else.
I found it the most usefull palm/clie I ever had.
Today, when the UX50 is with me, I can leave my MP3 player, digital camera, laptop and DiskOnKey at home, in most cases.

>>>Did Sony engineers have their heads in a moist, dark place when they designed this?

Line Of The Day!

I only played with one for a few minutes in the store, so take it for what it's worth. Here are my gripes:
1) Physical screen size is too small.
2) Difficult to type by feel due to the fact that the keys are flush, so I had to look at the keyboard as I typed.
3) Requires a stylus or fingernail for too much. I realize that there's a 3rd party app that can address this to some degree, but it's no replacement for a well positioned, well integrated D-Pad. I look forward to PalmSource integrating Handspring's recent work in this area to the core Palm OS.

I'm the target market for this device, because I want something with a thumbboard, integrated camera, and integrated Bluetooth (Wi-Fi is nice, but not as important for me). But it lacks zen. It feels too hobbled together. Again, my main criticism is the lack of a D-Pad that's well integrated into the OS. Somebody please rip off Danger's thumbboard, D-Pad, and scroll wheel layout and stick it on a device like this. Then you'll have a winner.

Scott

http://TapLand.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

I played with the device for a short while and was unimpressed. I then received it as a trade-in for my broken NX70 and after using it for a couple weeks I completely agree with Ryan's review. The UX50 is The way to go if you are looking for a complete wireless solution (if you have a BT phone). The screen may be small, but it is bright and the resolution blows away any Palm or Pocket PC device. Just look at images in the NetFront browser and compare.

You can find it online for $600 or less and if you compare it to most any other PDA and add a camera (even if low res), a thumb keyboard, and a WiFi or Bluetooth card then you will be at about the same price, but in a significantly larger package. I actually considered trying to get a Tablet PC or larger Handheld PC, but the UX50 does it all (granted on a smaller display) and is rock solid.

Check out http://www.palmsolo.com for the ramblings of a PDA addict.

Here is what the Gadgeteer had to say:

"so many things about this particular PDA feel incomplete, including its own built-in software, that I can't help but think that Sony was in a race to see who could market and sell the first landscape PDA. Guess what? They won! But at what cost for us as consumers? This is not an inexpensive unit, and in some ways it feels very much like a beta version - even though it is a very cool beta version."

Read more at http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/sony-ux50-pda-review.html

No, it was in fact invented for five fingers, but with a funny hitch: the typists of the day were going too fast for typewriters then available, so various touches were introduced to slow them down, such as not placing the most frequent letters under the most agile fingers, i.e. the second index finger. The later Dvorak keyboard is the champion hi-speed keyboard, which places the most frequently used letter in English, the "e", under the index finger, etc... To my knowledge, no one has yet invented a real two-thumb keyboard. There is a program called Fitaly which attempted such a thing on a virtual level - many people love it. Now, if only they could adapt that to a real keyboard... radleyp

These reviews are quite an education. I am replying actually to ALL the reviews I just read. After reading very positive reviews by the three major reviews of Palm-OS based PDA's, and ALL 3 of them have either switched, or this one, thinking of switching to the UX50 JUST BEFORE the the release of OS6, says a whole lot. It seems that some of the comments by readers are made by those who don't have to switch and spend a lot of money because they know they can wait, so it's easy to come to a dismissive conclusion.

But to someone whose Tunsten T feel apart, screws came out, backlit stopped working, face all scratched up... I had no choice but buy now. Given that necessity, there WAS NO CHOICE. The UX50 was so much better than ANY of the PDA's Palm or PPC based that it was a no brainer. An obsessive guy like me appreciated that. Given how important these devices are to me, big decision, I will fret forever, but here... bought it in a day.

All the complaints, about the keyboard (both in terms of travel issues and commands), screen smallish, placement of scroll device, battery, buttons (that's the worse for me), no portrait, low user memory, syncing.... all true, but all of them combined still doesn't come close to outweigh this units overall superiority BY FAR than anything else out there.

The size, it's sturdiness and protective design, the screen is high res and with fonts4ux.xom great display despite it's size, GREAT KEYBOARD... my god, i am a touch typist myself, but with it's spaciousness, you can type fast for the first time on a thumb keyboard.. and it is MUCH FASTER than the fastest graffiti user and a lot less work, even fun to use. All the power, camera, movies, my friends were blown out by the features. Going to bed at night and wifi'ing to my DSL wireless router and being online!! IT'S AMAZING SIZE.. like my Palm Vx but much kewler because no case to make it bigger. And the memory?? YOU CAN PUT A GIG OF USER MEMORY ON A MEMORY STICK, so what's the complaint? I could put my whole vacation of 5mp photos, MP3's a dictionary and my dissertation on this sucker and have room to spare. Oh yeah, the syncing... all I know, is that the flat cradle is not bulky like the Palm cradles so i can easily take it with me, no problem to charge or hotsync anywhere.

This unit is revolutionary, period. I know when the OS6 come out, i will envy something else.. but this is flat out an amazing machine.

yes er.... from what i just heard, rumors may be unfounded and a while before new UX would be released. Too bad, but I've got an extended warranty and hope to replace when OS 6 version of UX comes out..whether it be 80 or 90 or whatever.

I don't understood your wait for new one to hook up with Sony Erickson. the UX50 is Blue Tooth as well as Wifi enabled right now.

Euthanasia, ska?

Dude, it is called reduced cost of ownership and IT managers getting control back. But most of all, keeping .NET out of your office.

Get third party Palm OS application houses to do the trinity of professional applications (office suite, mail client, web browser), most professional will not care if it is Windows compatible to do their job.

The average cost of ownership for a laptop including software pushes $3000 a year. With a Palm OS laptop, the cost of ownership is only $1000. That is how it will sell -- to IT managers that need to keep costs down.

FYI, your reaction is the same I heard from people who saw a pen computer ten years ago and said "I don't like not having a keyboard." Your father bought IBM, you buy Microsoft.

If Sony would make something like the UX50, they will most definately make Palm OS laptop. I'll bet good money it does a hell of a lot better than anyone anticipates when it is discovered how affordable the third party applications are, there is no hard disk, batter life is in days and it is much lighter.

Suddenly anything over a pound will be "bulky." Mark my word on this. Consumer is a very, very form factor conscience market. That Compaq laptop architecture you are reading this on will be outdated sooner than you think.

Frankly, I think it will be cool to do a "Palm to Palm" sync.

I still don't agree. It's funny that you have this issue completely backwards. With PC notebooks getting smaller and smaller every year, there could come a time when handheld operating systems become irrelevant. You see PalmOS on notebook portables as a solution; I see it as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I have never heard anyone complain they can't run PalmOS on their laptop instead of Windows.

PalmOS on a PDA the size of a CLIE UX-50 (or slightly larger) makes sense for companies attempting to control costs. The hardware and software support costs for employees that really just need email, web, Word and Excel for a PalmOS based portable vs. a Windows laptop are significant. Ask any IT professional how much it costs per year to support clueless Windows end users and maintain Windows and its apps. For some people, Windows is essential and ultra-compact laptops that run it like the Toshiba Libretto will make more sense. But why would a company spend $5000 supporting an employee with a Windows laptop + apps when it could spend $1000 on a PalmOS-based equivalent? This is one of the areas I would expect Palm and Sony to be focusing on in the next year. We'll see who's right soon enough.

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

RhinoSteve is talking about a replacement for Windows notebooks running business applications (at least, I think he is). That’s not going to happen, IMO.

I wouldn't suggest Palm/Sony attempt to market PalmTops™ as doing anything but a limited subset of what laptops are capable of. They need to be sold honestly for what they are: simple, connected displays for the majority of information employees need to access.

Despite these ROI costs assessments (note sure where you're getting that from), the enterprise still continues to shun PDAs. Corporate adoption has not taken off. Consumers still make up the bulk of PDA sales.

I came up with those numbers based on what I know about pricing of laptops, PalmTops, Windows apps, Palm apps and support costs. Palm's (relative) failure in the corporate world dates back to a series of strategic errors they made in 1999 - 2001.

And "clueless windows users" aside, you still have to train people to use PalmOS as well, and that's going to incur more costs as well.

The "training" needed to use an intuitive OS and simple apps is relatively minimal. With automated (on-device) backups, the chances of disaster striking is limited and recovery is a fairly quick, painless and inexpensive process for PalmOS-based systems.

Yes, for basic email/messaging/web browsing, you don’t necessarily need a Notebook PC, but you also don’t need a “Palm laptop" either, when a Smartphone can fill that role at even less cost.

The displays on smartphones are too small to allow these to be realistic laptop replacements. It's one thing to use a Sony Ericsson P800 or P900 to occasionally check your email or browse the web as you wait in line at the grocery store; but you wouldn't want to be spending your days reading dozens of corporate emails on a 1.5 inch smartphone screen.

Palm blew a great opportunity to leverage their OS in the corporate world. As the traditional stand alone market evaporates, Palm needs to have a clear plan for what its future markets are. I believe - in order of importance - those mrkets are:

1) Smartphones
2) PalmTops
3) Stand alone units

It makes a lot more sense to try to sell 5000 PalmTops to Company X than trying to sell 5000 stand alone Palms to 5000 individuals. Not enough of the decision makers at Palm felt that way a few years ago when Palm Vx models were flying off the shelves at premium prices. They forgot the importance of diversification and it came back to haunt them when the bottom fell out of the market. Sony won't make that same mistake.

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

Here is a news flash fro you. Palm OS mini laptop will not be cheap.

It will cost around $6-900 bucks. ie. It won't be that much cheaper than a low end windows laptop.

Yes it can do instant on, run palm apps etc. But it also won't do anything beyond that. No CF peripherals, incomplete networking utilities etc. It'll be just a larger version of T3 instead of shrunk down laptop.

you don't believe me?
take a look at .net handheld done by NEC and Psion. They cost $800-1000 and it has CF slot.

Do you want to pay the same price minus the CF slot?

>>>First of all, the price will probably hit around $600 and be just under the going rate of Windows laptops. Also, I doubt you know much about real margins of electronic manufacturing these days. Look at the Dana and how well it is doing in a niche educational market.>>>

around $600? I'll believe it when I see it. Even the old HP720 couldn't pull it off, and it wasn't even first try or without market either.

Second: Dana with all such basic strip down feature cost $400 or so, imagine putting a customized color screen, and everything else that a laptop should have.

Even T3 + folding keyboard cost as much already, and Palm sold T3 by the bushel instead of new market like this laptop wannabe you propose.

and of course the fact that nobody by this UX50 except a few gadget freaks should be a warning anough about som foolish thought trying to reinvent laptop.

Yes but can Palm OS use such hardware? for eg. intel based display chips, CPU, or other hardware. I've never seen Palm project based on x85 architecture.

low end wintel laptop can be made cheap because it's standard and a company can sell them by the pounds. Once Palm start changing a few thing here and there, cost adds up, and out goes the advantage.

Remember UX is the cutting edge of integrated technology and consumr electronic manufacturing. ANd it only give you that much, not quite a laptop.

How much do you think UX will cost adding SD and CE slot plus a USB socket? it won't be $5-10 bucks I can tell you that.

Xscale won't be cheap. NEC has one clamshell model using Xscale costing around $800 bucks, Psion has one using ARM costing 900euro.

Remember one of those ultra cheap Linux dumb terminal from corel based on ARM? It didn't go anywhere, because a barebone wintel box ends up selling cheaper by the time it comes out.

Once you move away from standard wintel hardware model things quickly add up.

I seriously doubt Palm can create a decent 'laptop' even matching NEC clamshell at lower price. It won't happen, the economy of scale is not there.

A PalmTop™ with 480 x 320 screen, dual CompactFlash and SD expansion, 801.11b, Bluetoothless, decent keyboard, all in a package around 15% larger than the UX-50 could easily be done for $500. The only question is whether or not any company has the vision to produce and properly market (to businesses, industry, etc.) such a device. It takes guts to create an entirely new market. Looking back over the past seven years, how many truly fresh PDA ideas have we seen? Not many.

Pilot 1000
Handspring Visor (Springboard)
TRGPro
Original IPAQ and Casio models
CLIE UX-50
Treo 600

Almost everything else has been minor cosmetic changes: slightly different cases, better screens, more RAM, low res cameras, different expansion formats, etc. Innovation has been sorely lacking because manufacturers kept expecting sales of standalone PDA to explode the way cell phones did. It isn't going to happen. Smartphones are going to eat stand alones for lunch, so if new markets aren't aggressively pushed (schools, real estate, business, medicine, sales, vertical market, gaming, phones, etc.), Palm will be sitting around next year wondering why their sales figures are half what they were in 2003. Yes, half. It's happening...

Sometimes the truth just isn't pretty™

The size stats for the MCC are a bit misleading. I mean, it's true that it's only 3" x 5" x 3/4" (7.6cm x 12.7cm x 1.9 cm), but that only measures the main module without its interface components. For you to be able to use the core (view the operating system, input data, output audio, etc.), it needs to be inserted into a larger shell!

Their idea for its handheld implementation involves a gigantic 12.7 oz (360 g) unit with a 6.3 1024x768 TFT touch screen. Although still comparatively small in contrast to a laptop, it's certainly not the tiny handheld that they're touting. You can view the Ruggedized Handheld shell here:

http://www.antelopetech.com/en/index.aspx?view=i-products_RuggedHandheld.htm

The MCC itself is the beige-colored rectangle sticking out on the right side. The rest of that image is the horrendously bulky shell that you need in order to access the MCC. I think that's a bit too bulky for a portable solution for people who just want to stuff a PDA in their pockets.

I think perhaps its target demographic is the industrial market. Certainly the military might have use for this type of device. Unless a more streamlined shell is designed for on-the-go usage by the typical consumer, I don't see this being marketed to the general public in this form factor.

"Thanks for the great reviews of megabuck devices like the UX50 and T|3; now, how about a Tungsten|E review, for those of us who don't want a flipping, sliding, expensive, fragile toy?"

For a T|E review, visit www.the-gadgeteer.com and take a look. I'm sure Ryan will do one if he feels like it's not being redundant. The T|E is good due to it having a lot of feaures that you don't usually get in a $199 device. The deal breaker for me was the lack of UC, BT, and voice recorder. My wife liked the looks of the E, but wanted something with a decent speaker in the right place, plus the extra screen space for ebook reading. I could have kept the extra cash for something else, but, oh well :(

Fortunately I found a buyer for my T|T1 which helped a LOT. BTW, the slider is anything BUT fragile. I know about five or six T|T series owners who have the T1, T2, or T3, and some have been used, abused, and even droppped multiple times. The slider is tough and well built. One drop that I saw with my own eyes was from a few feet onto solid wood, while open with no case or protection. I have a pair of old Palm III's with shattered screens that had less of a fall.

Perfect upgrade from the Palm V/505/515 models, for a bargain price. It has a great screen, good battery life, OS5 with all the improves to the basic apps, and no slider!

Of course, if you want all the wiz stuff such as wireless, larger display, etc. you will have to go to the T3.

The only complaint I have is lack of universal connector, otherwise this is an almost perfect PDA.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=a%20lot

http://tinyurl.com/sj55

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lotta

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=alotta

if someone out there knows/has a good grammar e-book, please email it to me

> "There is no such word as "alot"."

There's also no such word as "faughter", but that didn't stop some idiot from registering the name fool faughter. 8^)

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My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

Actually...it is.
Albeit it's slang.
There is "foo" which is often used in the programming world as a "generic" argument to be passed to a routine / application - used more in the development of UNIX and UNIX-like applications than in the Windows world, but it is used.
E.G.: "To find all subdirectories within a given directory, from your console, type 'find -type d `/foo`' where 'foo' is an arbitrary directory.

However, the term "foo fighter" is a slang term from WWII and post WWII-era pilot terminology used to name an unidentified flying object. A "foo fighter" is a UFO.
*Sagely nod*

Off topic: It's interesting to note that Foo Fighters were very common in World War II. fighter pilots often witnessed "strange lights" in the sky, and many close encounters with mysterious high speed craft, sometimes in large numbers. There were even cases where whole Bomber Groups (consisting of several hundred to a thousand bombers) encountered UFOs. Both the Axis and Allies covered up these reports. American and British command officers believed these UFOs were some sort of experimental German wonder weapon, and the Germans suspected the same thing of the Allies. To this day, the sightings remain unexplained.

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My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

And where did the band get its name from?

I am surrounded by children! Children, I say!

The Foo Fighter definition is correct, as is the tech use of Foo.

But no one here has brought up the delightful Smokey Stover comic strip which had "Foo!" all over it.

There used to be a character on eruptor.com (the site went belly up during the dot com implosion) named "Foo" as well.

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My blog: www.pocketfactory.com

"So far I can say that the performance is just about on par with Clie's that run the 200MHz XScale PXA255 processor. "

well I guess 1:2 is within range of 'on par'.

I happen to agree that a 100+ MHz ARM CPU is fine for most current PDA/organizer applications, especially if the lower clock rate helps extend the battery life noticeably.

Given a choice between half the price and double the CPU clock speed. I'd take the lower price.

benchmarks and processor speed do not indicate real world usability. I rate the speed on the overall responsiveness of the handheld and how fast/well it runs applications.

I was trying to make the point that this unit is just as fast as some of the 200-400mhz handheld chips out there.

> Since when does consumer computer product need to make compromise between speed and price?

Since small size and longer battery life became even more important issues to many consumers.

> UX50 fails in any benchmark.

False. Failing a benchmark would require it to have not run to completion; but the UX50 completed all benchmarks. In fact the UX50 runs at least one benchmark not only faster than the fastest Intel CPU you could buy 10 years ago, but faster than the highest performance supercomputers used for designing and running the Apollo moon missions.

It's just odd that the much lower priced TJ25 is even faster (and with better battery life, almost 7 hours), than the flagship UX50. Supporting bluetooth, wifi, multimedia, camera, and a display with twice as many pixels as a much bigger PPC takes its toll.

>>>$600 PDA for "just fine" performance?

And what were the prices of the original Palm-Size PCs, ska? And they didn't even approach "just fine" performance. I know -- I bought an Everex Freestyle via ebay for $15 just two months ago. Still overpriced.

He's talking about buttons (as in Date book, Address book, Todo, etc) not keys (as in q, w, e, r, t...).

-Enfors-

Better key layout
More compatible with Palm games
Portrait and horizontal layout
Thinner, lighter, no cluncky 1 Oz. metal EYE HOLDER
Larger screen
Keyboard without ridges
3 Meg camera with flash

bundled with Bluetooth phone

Now we're talking

I have to say that the new hp 41xx PPC that has BT and WIFi for just $450 is a better buy -- for pocketable WiFi (*not* PIMs!) -- than this, despite my love of PalmOS over PPC. And that 41xx will use the exisiting iPaq keyboards too (they finally did the bottom connector right!).

This "sniffer" is built-in

"The Scan button finds available access points and lists their names, whether they use WEP encryption, channel and signal strength"

Source: http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/feature/sony_UX50.htm

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PDAs rule the world !