MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Palm's Creativity vs. Windows' Compatibility

There's a new opinion piece in the latest copy of BusinessWeek that takes another look at the differing mobile device strategies of PalmSource and Microsoft. The authors compliments the creativity of Palm OS licensees and bemoans the uninventive, commoditized uniformity of pocket pc designs.
Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (26 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Comments Closed Comments Closed
This article is no longer accepting new comments.

Down

We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(

dhchung @ 12/2/2003 2:12:57 PM #
yah. palm is good. and I do think palm is better than PPC.
However, Palm OS PDAs are not perfect, there are consumers who prefer PPC and there are more than 1 reason for that happens. For example iPaq h19xx are cheap and light. Dell's X5 is Super cheap.
Can we just get some stories about why HP's sales and market share increase throughout the year too?
If you know more about the competitors, you'll have more chance to win the competition in a long run.

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
Kesh @ 12/2/2003 2:25:48 PM #
Er, no. It'd be like an Apple news site promoting Dell's new desktop systems.

This is primarily a site dedicated to PalmOS news. Sometimes that's good news, sometimes it's bad. But it's not PocketPC news. There are other sites dedicated to that.

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
Admin @ 12/2/2003 2:49:19 PM #
well, this article is not all one sided. It goes on to lay out the advantages and disadvantages of each strategy. It even has quotes from top-ups from both MS and PalmSource.

the author goes points out that many IT departments actually prefer the windows mobile uniformity because it is easier to manage in the enterprise and is closely tied to MS server products.

anyway, this is far from a "one sided story"

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
TTrules @ 12/2/2003 10:36:17 PM #
Why don't the PPC hardware makers make a clamshell unit with the full size screen and a keyboard. That would be more functional and look different too.

-Sniffer

One Palm to rule them all!

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
TASKA @ 12/3/2003 12:36:45 AM #
MEC SigmorionIII, Psion netbook
RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
PalmSide @ 12/3/2003 3:36:50 AM #
> Psion Netbook
that aint ppc, that is/was epoc. psion did well back in 3mx/5mx times, but the revo (diamond) with it's crappy battery screwed it all - if they would have used a better battery and implemented a color screen some time the revo still would rule.

my devices: psion 3mx, psion 5mx, psion revo, palm tungsten t, hp ipaq 1915 - all for development and playing games.

markus dresch (www.palmside.com)

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
simond @ 12/3/2003 4:14:15 AM #
> Psion netbook

The new netBook Pro is WinCE .NET, but I wish it was still EPOC, my netBook is feeling a bit long in the tooth as my T3 is faster ;)

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/notebooks/0,39023985,39116901,00.htm

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
dhchung @ 12/3/2003 12:02:03 PM #
My point:
the full article is not one sided, but the highlight at palminfocenter is.

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
orb2069 @ 12/3/2003 7:31:44 PM #
Why don't the PPC hardware makers make a clamshell unit with the full size screen and a keyboard. That would be more functional and look different too.

They used to. Check out the PDAs listed in the LH column of this page: http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/hpc.htm , under 'Windows CE (discontinued)'.

You might be able to find one cheap on eBay, if you can live with WinCE 2.something.

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
TTrules @ 12/3/2003 10:24:59 PM #
Well they should keep making clamshel units with real hardware and PPC 2003



One Palm to rule them all!

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
kisrael @ 12/4/2003 4:52:04 PM #
They probably don't go w/ the keyboard because it's associated w/ their early, super-crappy version of their OS.

I've always thought that keeping things basic ala Palm was much better than trying to pretend a full desktop UI can scale down...

RE: We can only hear one side story in palminfocenter :(
TTrules @ 12/5/2003 4:31:26 PM #
Well they should work their way out of that trend.

-Sniffer

One Palm to rule them all!

PPC = Compatibility?

twocents @ 12/2/2003 2:49:24 PM #
Aren't PPC developers required to create "flavors" of their software in order to work an all the various hardware/processors? Hardly seems that PPC is any better when it comes to compatibility.

RE: PPC = Compatibility?
M3wThr33 @ 12/2/2003 3:35:17 PM #
Yeah, especially when it comes to checking what processor you have, but I haven't really played with PPC2003, I don't know if processor is still an issue anymore.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.
RE: PPC = Compatibility?
Bartman007 @ 12/2/2003 4:08:48 PM #
It isn't really an issue anymore. 95% or more of PPC2003's use ARM based processors, if not all. I haven't seen a MIPS or other architecture based Microsoft PDA since it was just WinCE

RE: PPC = Compatibility?
rsc1000 @ 12/2/2003 4:49:23 PM #
>>I haven't seen a MIPS or other architecture based Microsoft PDA since it was just WinCE

Not true - the first Pocket PC (2 versions ago) included support for MIPS (used by Casio e-125 among others), SH-something-or-other (didnt early Jornadas use this? SH3?), and StrongARM. There were many devices left out in the cold when MS made it a requirment that all devices be ARM for pocket PC 2002 - the 1st version that they standardized on ARM. Palm has of course switched chip architectures completely - going from motorola 68k to ARM type processors. But they were smart enough to include 68k emulation (PACE) with OS 5.

Further to MS claims of compatibilty - every variation of WinCE needs to have at least some code (and all UI) different. Handheld WinCE / PPC (now windows mobile) / MS Smartphone are not compatible because they have different UI and components. Software for todays PPCs doesn't work on todays MS Smartphones - though sharing the core OS componoents does make it easy to write for both.

Palms compatibility issues really center around 2 major factors:

1) the feature set that software takes advantage of (for example: hi-res and bluetooth dont exist on all devices)
2) Whether or not the software developers stay within the guidelines, which they frequently don't - for good reason - to get optimal performance by 'talking' directly to the hardware for things like games.

RE: PPC = Compatibility?
EdH @ 12/3/2003 8:53:37 AM #
100% of Pocket PCs from 2002 and 2003 use ARM based processors, and most 2000 units did since the iPAQ was the big seller and it used ARM. X-Scale is just a brand name for a particular flavor of Intel's new ARM version.

RE: PPC = Compatibility?
skeezix @ 12/3/2003 9:04:42 AM #

To be fair, we should note that pretty much every Palm OS developer is really angry about the state of compatability -- sure, the core OS is usually the same on every device, but that by no means makes it easy to port any half way involved application. At least PalmSource is awar of the situation and striving to stop it (whew!).

Sony uses a proprietary sound API (until very recently) (so not only do we have to check if its a Sony or not, we have to check the versions to know which API to use..)

Sony uses a proprietary highres API (since they came to game first)

Handera uses proprietary highres

Dana uses proprietary highres

Handspring (Treo) uses proprietary 5-way API

Even Garmin and T|T3 which uses the PalmSource modern screen APIs do things a little differently...

PalmOne uses proprietary 5-way API

Sony uses proprietary jogdial API

Handera uses proprietary jogdial API

... etc etc ...

(Zodiac is exempted, since it deliberately goes out of bounds for good reasons)

So when we build an application, we're bombarded with requests to support this or that, and its custom work every time. My apps all have support for a half dozen jog dials and 5-ways, 4 or 5 different screen layout systems, multiple sound systems.. I get my main app latest revision out, and not days later find out the Treo 600 uses a custom 5-way API, so more work to go. Palm OS is immensely expensive to support.

Pocket PC generally doesn't have this problem. Instead they've got all the other problems mentioned above and then some :)

So its not all roses for us either :)

Jeff

(Remember, I'm a huge Palm OS advocate who makes a living doing this stuff, but you don't want to keep one eye closed ;)

The Shadow knows!

I Agree

LiveFaith @ 12/2/2003 4:42:46 PM #
I've been thinking the same thing for a while now. A look over the devices at PalmSource.com is stunning in the different purposes & form factors. I also keep an eye on PPC news to see what's happening.

If HP offers another device I going to be totally confused. They all are nearly alike except the #s.

Being in IT in the past, I can see the desire for corporates to keep it all compatible tho.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

PalmOS Software Compatibility
zhamilton @ 12/3/2003 9:45:38 AM #
PalmOS and PocketPC have both the same problem in different degrees.

They both only release 'new features' every 12-18 months which means that developer's will not wait that long for the OS to include those features since they want to release thier product NOW and not later.

Another problem is that since the upgrades cost money and not only that but some devices do not support the latest versions of PalmOS/Windows Mobile, there is no way for old devices to upgrade and therefore are stuck with an old feature set.

Not only do developers get hurt since they have to implement all the 'extra' features by them selves (since not everybody has the lastest OS) but also users get hurt since once thier device has left main-stream it loses the ability to run many new applications.

No operating system has solved this yet and untill someone does, both developers and users will not totally enjoy the new features of a new OS version.

Zakai Hamilton
ScreensOS Designer
www.geocities.com/zhamilton1
zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk (MSN + Email)

RE: I Agree
mj6798 @ 12/3/2003 6:29:37 PM #
No operating system has solved this yet and untill someone does, both developers and users will not totally enjoy the new features of a new OS version.

It doesn't have to be as bad as PalmOS. We have known for a couple of decades what hardware-independent APIs for windowing, audio, databases, and file systems need to look like. Yet, PalmOS keeps breaking compatibility in all these areas: the window system doesn't adapt well to differently sized screens, different PalmOS handhelds handle audio incompatibly, databases are incompatible bewteen different PalmOS handhelds, and so is file handling.

RE: I Agree
zhamilton @ 12/3/2003 11:05:14 PM #
It has not been THAT bad as PalmOS, you are right about that.

I don't see PalmOS doing anything about this and the truth is I see them as the DOS design: simple, fast and that just works (nearly ;) ).

Someone (I am trying to do so with ScreensOS) needs to come out with a solution like windows for PalmOS. PalmOS is what you would call the 'core' of the device. Software will have to move forward without dependency on PalmOS all the time.

Anyone who wants to make this project a reality, please join me on MSN Messenger at zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk

Zakai Hamilton
ScreensOS Designer
zhamilton1@yahoo.co.uk (MSN Messenger+Email)

Amen

alexito @ 12/3/2003 3:07:49 PM #
"Compatibility is a good thing, but it can come at the price of dull conformity. Microsoft's strategy makes a lot of business sense, but I hope that, for the sake of consumer choice, PalmSource and its licensees can keep the experiments coming."

I don't really look forward to a M$ dominated world so I would stick to Palm a bit more (hopefully a Treo 600 or Zodiac if I got the cash) even if I'm really tempted with those cheap Axims an HPs.

By the way, any hands-on reviews on the above handhelds?

Technology moves faster than you can afford... at least for me.

on the other hand...

mj6798 @ 12/3/2003 6:20:46 PM #
On the other hand, all those interesting shapes have numerous incompatibilities. We have several incompatible HiRes APIs and several incompatible audio APIs. Palm handhelds don't even come with decent tools for managing stuff on SD or CF cards. Different brands of PalmOS handhelds run different software, and you often can't transfer the software from, say, a Sony handheld to a Palm handheld. Phone APIs seem to be different among different PalmOS phones. TapWave even has a completely new set of graphics APIs for games.

So, yes, there are lots of different shapes and devices running PalmOS. But the main reason that's the case is because Palm apparently doesn't give a damn about compatibility between them: if they can license the OS to another company, they seem happy no matter what the licensee does with it. Whether that's good for PalmOS in the long term remains to be seen.

I find it rather frustrating that several months after the T3 has come out, none of the commercial third party applications I use on my Palm regularly support the T3's 320x480 mode.

Windows....

vesther @ 12/3/2003 8:38:19 PM #
....rely too much on Moore's Law, HCL "stuff", other things. Think of a Palm Handheld as the "Apple" of the Handheld Industry.....I know that some Apple Locations sell Palm-Branded Handhelds. Apple and Palm has Creativity, but Microsoft often rely too much on Compatibility, hurting us financially.....

In a Desolate Forest, an enchanted Palm-Powered Handheld is waiting to possess a helpless soul in the wake--The Palm-Powered Handheld's name is EURENZANNIG.

Apple's Creativity vs. Windows' Compatibility Redux

Gekko @ 12/5/2003 1:15:38 AM #
Creativity alone ultimately gets you 4% market share and relegation to small niche player. A hollow victory at best.



Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: