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Comments on: Palm Sued Over HP Deal Stock Spat

Bloomberg is reporting on a new law suit filled this week again Palm Inc. The suit comes from investor named Steve Ubaney who claims the HP buyout deal cheats common stock holders while unfairly favoring holders of preferred shares such as the ones held by Elevation Partners.

Mr. Ubaney alleges that Palm directors breached their fiduciary duties and that common stockholders "will not receive their fair portion of the value of Palm's assets and will be prevented from benefitting from a value-maximizing transaction." He is seeking a court order to block the deal plus damages and is looking to represent other investors.

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In plain English ... what happened?

e_tellurian @ 5/7/2010 12:35:18 PM # Q
To my understanding all investors knew their position and the difference between the different stock. Does Palm function as an independent or as Palm HP?

How much money do these people want?

E-T
e-tellurian

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Reply to this comment

I smell class action

jmchamblis @ 5/7/2010 1:35:05 PM # Q
This may just be someone trying to get a class action lawsuite started, maybe in 5 years will end up getting a $5 coupon for a new HP computer.
Reply to this comment

This is a lame suit

HellcatM @ 5/7/2010 1:43:34 PM # Q
If you do the stock market either you or your stock broker knows whats going on. This guy probably does stock trading from Ameritrade or a service like it at home and he doesn't know anything. He won't get any money, it'll probably get laughed out of court. He probably found a lawyer that just wants to make money from him and sees how stupid he is and its an easy payday for him.
RE: This is a lame suit
richf @ 5/7/2010 2:21:13 PM # Q
Yeah, he probably owns a share and knows nothing of the corporate world. If, and he probably will lose, he should be made to pay all parties costs of this stupid litigation. These people come out of the wood work all the time trying to make a free buck.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
Reply to this comment

What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?

Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/8/2010 11:48:48 AM # Q
The site is down to a pitiful 5 - 10 comments/day, most of which are the bizarre, repetitive comments of the unfortunate ET. Where are the "regulars" from the haycyon days? Is hkklife the only one left keeping this site alive? LiveFaith seems ready to inflict a Pre Plus upon himself, so he will probably stick around for a while longer, until like a battered spouse, eventually he moves on.

How many of the regulars have moved on to iPhone, Windows Mobile, Android or Blackberry over the past 2 years? What happens to this site when hkklife, mikecane and LiveFaith stop posting? Will all that remains be a barrage of vomitus from the poster who suggested (in 150 different off-topic posts) that Palm should start making gold cased, diamond-studded PDAs in an effort to survive? PIC deserves better than this. It is being abandoned, much as Palm's OS, products and users were abandoned by Palm's executives over the past decade.

Where are the daily stream of useful articles showing upcoming devices, info leaks, reviews of useful applications, discussion of "classic" devices, and posts offering probing analysis of webOS and Palm's products?

Does anyone feel it's worth the effort to keep this site alive with useful discussion? Or should Palminfocenter just continue to wither until the posts completely dry up and the remaining readers move on?

With stunning hardware like the iPhone 4G, HTC EVO, Motorola Droid 2, etc expected over the coming months, NOW is the time for PIC to make the decision whether or not to make the commitment to turn this site into a vibrant community that serves as a focal point for all things Palm, of if the site will surrender as one PalmOS/webOS user after another gets lured away to competing platforns by the promise of better hardware/software/reliability/support/user experience.

If Palminfocenter continues on the same path of benign neglect I expect it will be a dead site walking within a few months. All the regular posters will have left and - with HP-derived webOS-powered hardware not likely to show up until late in 2010 - webOS newbie reinforcements are unlikely to rush to PIC anytime soon.

hkklife, mikecane, abosco, LiveFaith and a dozen or so others should be commended for their tireless efforts here for SEVERAL years, as they have tried to keep PIC alive even though Palm was long since declared brain-dead. I, FJH have tried to revitalize PIC over the past month or two with some brilliant commentary, but have given up in disgust. Seeing great posts and articles by hkklife and even Tim Carroll eliciting almost no discussion makes me think the writing may be on the wall.

Perhaps Palminfocenter needs to pay a few writers to create more content here. A daily feature article by hkklife. A 5 part series of indepth, non-"Timmmay" written iPhone OS vs webOS vs. PalmOS comparison articles using the latest/best hardware running each OS and a dozen top third party apps. A daily trolling article by Timmmay Carroll. Pay Michael Cane $10/day (or 1 pizza) to post a daily rant, but stipulate that he gets NOTHING unless his posts improve beyond the embarassing TWITter level that his brain has been reduced to in the past year. Ask Palm to provide mikecane with a Verizon-activated Pre Plus fo a month and have him blog his "review" to an ongoing feature article. Bring back PIC legends like cervezas (David Beers), Surur, Ska, The Voice of Reason, cbowers, Larry Garfield, stonemirror, RhinoSteve, Altema, legodude522, twrock, I.M. Anonymous, Strider_mt2k, Slam, PenguinPowered (Marty Fouts), etc.

Palminfocenter STILL is considered an important measure of the pulse of the Palm community:
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/042910-palm-users-hp.html
Don't let this site die.

FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
hkklife @ 5/8/2010 12:30:37 PM # Q
I have a half-finished "The Pleasure & Pain of a Longtime Palm OS user migrating to Android" piece still on the back burner.

It's hard to finish that piece because:

1. I am still using my Palm OS Centro & 755p for primary PIM duties, despite trying for months to massage the Droid into a full-fledged replacement.

2. Android, at least the barebones "Android Experience" found on the Droid & Nexus One, is absolutely pathetic when it comes to PIMs. I'd get more use out of a 11 year-old Palm V than an Android device when it comes to PIMs. HTC's sense UI addresses a sizable amount of Android's deficiencies but, alas, I cannot buy a new phone every 6 months at full retail price just to get better photo gallery & calendar apps.

3. I am still not certain that I am going to stick with Android for the long haul. It's almost as hard to keep an app-laden Android device running reliably as it is an app-laden Garnet device....quite possibly even harder due to the greater difficulty in troubleshooting and the large numbers of neophyte Android users that think it's the coolest thing since sliced bread. All of these neo-smartphone OS social networking hipsters consider anyone a stodgy old curmudgeon who cares about, say, recurring calendar events, sorting contacts by last name, first name or remembering someone's birthday in a non-Facebook reminder sort of way.

4. Several things are WORSE now on the Droid past 2.1 OS update than they were with 2.0.1. I read daily about numerous delays, aggravation, and uncertainty surrounding which Android devices will be updated to 2.1, which ones are seemingly abandoned and which ones have "issues". Google has their fingers in too many pies and are getting way too sloppy with Android for it to ever make any serious inroads against Apple. It's shaping up to be a WinMob experience all over again, just with more apps & more marketshare.


I think it's just safe for me to again reiterate that all current smartphone OSes are shit other than iPhone OS and I am not particularly fond of the limited choice in hardware, carriers & synchroniztion options there. I am basically to grit my teeth and wish really hope that HP whips WebOS in shape over the next 12 months.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Lucky Bob @ 5/8/2010 12:49:42 PM # Q
Fake Jeff Hawkins, I stop coming to PIC, Brighthand, etc. when the PDA market fell apart. There was nothing interesting to follow anymore. It's as simple as that really.
(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
mikecane @ 5/8/2010 12:50:16 PM # Q
Eh. The glory days of PIC are over. People have moved onto smartphone sites (like the traitorous Gekko, who couldn't even be bothered to come here and gloat over the money aspects of things).

And it's not like you've seen content here as back in the old PDA days. Why no reviews of Palm Pre programs? Hell, I would have liked to have read that here. I'm not going to other sites, so I would have seen that only here.

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
hkklife @ 5/8/2010 1:20:39 PM # Q
I don't have a WebOS device, plain & simple. Nor can I justify shelling out $70+ each month for a 2nd line to have a WebOS device to use exclusively for PIC purposes. If Palm had a piece of compelling HD2/Incredible/EVO-type hardware available right now, I'd probably consider switching even if it meant paying full price.

Had Palm brought out a Pre on Verizon prior to the Droid launch on Nov 6th 2009, I would've definitely jumped on it (and bitched incessantly about it on PIC!) but I had to get a phone immediately back then and thought Android 2.0 was the lesser of all the various non-Garnet platform evils.

So yeah, I'd cheerfully do an occasional review or even mini-review "quickies" if I had the means to do so. Again, this is where a WebOS-based non phone device would come in verrrry handy.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/8/2010 1:35:20 PM # Q
After taking a look at the sheer number of apps available for iPhoneOS, including some of my favorite PalmOS apps like tryda, and accepting that this platform is now the dominant smartphone OS (Symbian and Blackberry aren't in the same league), iPhone is looking like a pretty safe bet. And that app iDaft is sweet!

Centro for phone + text messaging + PIM + email + essential/unique PalmOS + easy syncing + on-device backup
along with
iPhone 4G for modern hardware + bigger screen + decent browser + modern (actively supported) apps

As nice as the HTC EVO hardware looks, you're 100% right about how mangled the Android market is right now. Google screwed up by taking the lazy (Palm-style) way out and having vendors do the work coming up with the hardware + software customizations for Android. Google should have been strict on coming up with standards that would assure compatibility and easy updating of the OS. Apple has made iPhone idiotproof and this is yet another of iPhone's advantages. One OS. One app store. One place to load media. One form factor. It's the Ford Model T of smartphones and the strategy is working. I'm shocked by how many technophobes I see every day proudly carrying their iPhones, often filled with dozens of apps that they are actually USING. The iPhone is quickly moving from being a fashion accessory to becoming an indispensable tool, primarily because of how many useful apps are available for it and how easy they are for even newbies to find, load and use. Every airline seems to have an iPhone app. There are apps to locate restaurants. There are apps with maps of school campuses. And so on... iPhone has the momentum and the bandwagon appears to have a lot more room on it for frustrated dumbphone, Symbian, Blackberry, PalmOS, webOS and Windows Mobile users. If the iPhone 4G hardware is as solid as I expect it to be, I might just climb abord the bandwagon. If it arrives on Verizon that decision would be a lot easier. The HTC EVO on Sprint might not be worth the headaches of dealing with the 'Wild West' nature of Android. And I suspect Apple's hardware will be better than HTC's if your previous post about the HTC Incredible is accurate.

FJC
- Future iDrone?


P.S. What do I have to do to convince you to buy a Sprint Centro 2 from eBay for $100!!! Centro 1 (Original Sprint, Verizon, all GSM versions) feels like plasticky CRAP compared to the Sprint Centro 2. MUCH better keyboard, nice grippy rubberized coating,128 MB RAM, the final version of PalmOS 5 (Luscious Garnet). You kow you want it!

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/8/2010 1:58:43 PM # Q
Fake Jeff Hawkins, I stop coming to PIC, Brighthand, etc. when the PDA market fell apart. There was nothing interesting to follow anymore. It's as simple as that really.

Yes, Palm prematurely killed off PDAs in a cynical effort to force people to buy higher margin Treos if they wanted to updrade their old PalmOS PDAs. Only problem is that a Treo was NOT a replacement for a good PDA because of the difference in screen size, battery life and reliability afflicting Treos. Look back at the PDAs we had in 2005 and compare them to the best PDA we have now - the iPod Touch. It would have taken ZERO effort for Palm to have put out a high quality PalmOS PDA with better screen (like OLED) or with a cool form factor like the CLIE UX50 sometime in the past 5 years.

Throwing its customers under the bus and trying to force some of Palm's most faithful supporters into abandoning the very product that made Palm's name was unforgivable. And it backfired on Palm: just look at how many millions of iPod Touches have been sold over the past 2 years. 20 million? I have a new-in-box Palm TX and I can't believe what a piece of junk it is compared to the iPod Touch. I will probably save it as a collectors item or museum piece!

FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/8/2010 2:38:29 PM # Q
Eh. The glory days of PIC are over. People have moved onto smartphone sites (like the traitorous Gekko, who couldn't even be bothered to come here and gloat over the money aspects of things).

And it's not like you've seen content here as back in the old PDA days. Why no reviews of Palm Pre programs? Hell, I would have liked to have read that here. I'm not going to other sites, so I would have seen that only here.

Was Gekko a not-so-secret Palm basher like the dearly departed, wee bit OBSESSED hengeem/SeldomVisitor? Seems like his dramatic jumping on and off the Pre bandwagon and non-stop, stridant negative posting over the Internet about his bad Pre experience rang hollow.

The glory days may be over, but the site should still be able to survive. How hard would it be for Ryan to get you a demo Pre Plus on Verizon for a month test? One phone call. This isn't rocket science. A feature article with daily updates (rantings and ravings) from you would attract a fair bit of interest. The problem is the people reading this site correctly realized early on that Pre and webOS were not ready for prime time when they came out last year, so very few posters have picked up webOS devices. The few early adopters were not impressed and discouraged everyone else from trying out Pre and Pixi. It is possible that a year later Pre, Pixi and webOS are worth considering. But I sure as hell am not going to pony up to be a beta tester after my experience with the early Pre last year.

Not having any REAL end user content about devices running the only OS that Palm now supports is a suicidal strategy for Palminfocenter. Anyone can get Palm press releases + news blurbs on RSS or TWITter - we do not need PIC for that. Palminfocenter used to be about B.S.-free CONTENT. Unless the site owner makes an effort to revamp things, the remaining readers will move on. Cliesource, 1src, Brighthand, PalmStation, etc are dead or dying. Palm's not-so-secret PR sites - the cult-like bible-thumping Treocentral and Precentral might soon be all we have left.

This is the way Palm ends
This is the way Palm ends
This is the way Palm ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.


- TS FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/8/2010 2:49:35 PM # Q
Again, this is where a WebOS-based non phone device would come in verrrry handy.

If Palm put out a Wi-Fi-only Pre Plus for $200 last year I would have bought it just to paly around with webOS. I like the Pre form factor (but hate the plasticky feel, poor construction and sharp lip around the keyboard) and would have carried it alongside of my Centro 2.

$200 Palm Pre Touch. What could have been. Instead, Palm gave Apple another year head start and another 20 million customer lead in marketshare to overcome. So smart. So Rubyesque. So Palm.

FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
mikecane @ 5/8/2010 4:13:58 PM # Q
>>>How hard would it be for Ryan to get you a demo Pre Plus on Verizon for a month test?

Piss on that. I'm not about to do all that work, period.

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
rcartwright @ 5/8/2010 8:01:22 PM # Q
Yep it can, HP has made Palm interesting again. After over a decade with Palm I was tired of hacking my Treo 680 and not willing to spend @$100.00 to rejuve my TX and getting ready to bite the bullet and get an iPhone 4 when I realized that neither Amazon Kindle, Audible nor ereader were going to do native webos apps and Datebk and Dataviz were not jumping on either. If what I have heard is true, the Palm brand will remain and HP is going to jump into moble phones with both feet, further the Slate is dead and HP was rolling out web os on a tablet sooner rather than later as Palm shopping a phone/ tablet OS license to HP was what got the takeover into high gear to start with (which seems to be panning out with the Hurricane rumors)

At this point I am trying to decide if I want a Pre Plus from ATT (assuming I can get the same deal as VZN to keep me from jumping ship) or wait even longer for the PalmHP phone to come out (probably in August on Sprint.) Actually, I suspect much later than August as I expect HP to really massage the hardware and build quality before Palm sends anything else out.
"Many men stumble across the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up
and continue as if nothing had happened."
- Winston Churchill

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
hkklife @ 5/8/2010 8:56:52 PM # Q
I've been in touch with Gekko on and off the past few months. I have a very strong suspicion that his Android experience is not going to fare as well as he had hoped. I don't know if it'll flop hard enough to bring him back into the PIC fold but I think he's making a blind leap into the unknown. He's planning on getting a Sprint EVO 4G the day it's released, btw. And, for the record, I consider that that & the HTC Incredible the only worthwhile devices on the Android platform right now. The stock Google Experience leaves MUCH to be desired, though it is admittedly fast & fairly easy to navigate. It just feels like SUCH a beta piece of software. HTC's sense is the only Android layer UI that is worth a damn, IMHO. Moto's Blur is atrocious and needs to be kept as far away from the Droid 2 as possible.

Rcartwright, whatever Palm has in the can for the next device or two will almost certainly have been developed (C40 etc) under the auspices of the "old" Palm. These things just don't leap off the drawing board and on to store shelves in a few months' time. With carrier approvals & certifications, It's something like 18 months from greenlighting a project to it arriving at retail.

My advice? Get a Pre Plus on a 1yr contract. By all accounts, the AT&T version of the Pre Plus seems to be the best of the lot. Best build quality, best slider response, and possibly even some slightly optimized hardware...definitely a newer and speedier build of the OS.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
abosco @ 5/9/2010 5:55:16 PM # Q
Just go buy an iPhone. I'm saying this to everyone. If it's still not available on Verizon this summer and you live in the boonies, fine, wait. But dear God, the rest of you are just being stubborn. Have a little faith, I've been telling you this for three years now. Trust me, damn it!

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Tim Carroll @ 5/10/2010 5:55:46 AM # Q
^^ Never!!

FJH:

Seeing great posts and articles by hkklife and even Tim Carroll eliciting almost no discussion makes me think the writing may be on the wall.

"Even" Tim Carroll? Even? :P

I put in a lot of effort writing and investigating stuff for PIC before I ran off to the Army. I hope to come back and put in a lot more, but right now my living arrangements are not ideal for blogging.

I love this site. It's why I've continued to come back here, despite the dwindling away of readership and commentary that you touched on in your post. If it does need "saving", it's nothing that a few dedicated new bloggers couldn't fix. If there's one thing I discovered while writing here, it's that investigative blogging is easy. Developers and companies are often very happy to share information so long as you ask nicely. PIC could very easily be the source for Palm news, but we need some help!

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
nastebu @ 5/10/2010 6:45:45 AM # Q
Tim Carroll wrote:

FJH:
Seeing great posts and articles by hkklife and even Tim Carroll eliciting almost no discussion makes me think the writing may be on the wall.

"Even" Tim Carroll? Even? :P

I put in a lot of effort writing and investigating stuff for PIC before I ran off to the Army. I hope to come back and put in a lot more, but right now my living arrangements are not ideal for blogging.

Actually, I took the "even" to mean, "even Tim Carroll's great articles couldn't elicit discussion" rather than "even Tim Carroll occasionally wrote a good article."

Honestly, I've always thought PIC has had some quite good writing and critical responses to Palm phones, by Tim and otherwise. Tim's blind hatred of all things Apple is just a kind of amusing irritation, like a wife/girlfriend's Hello Kitty obsession.

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
mikecane @ 5/10/2010 8:08:28 AM # Q
>>>Just go buy an iPhone. I'm saying this to everyone.

Again. And again.

You act like I've never even touched the damned thing.

BTW, have *you* gotten an iPad?

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
abosco @ 5/10/2010 12:30:32 PM # M Q
I bought one for my parents because they're too stubborn to learn to use a full desktop computer, even OS X. It sits on the kitchen table and it actually gets regular use. My parents are now available by email, a feat that I have been trying to accomplish since we had a PowerPC Mac. I've borrowed it on two business trips and I thought it was a pleasure to use. My only regret is not waiting to get the 3G version. It's the 32 GB, by the way.

I'll buy another one for my own use in a few months.

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/12/2010 9:37:48 PM # Q
I put in a lot of effort writing and investigating stuff for PIC before I ran off to the Army. I hope to come back and put in a lot more, but right now my living arrangements are not ideal for blogging.

Perhaps you're trying too hard. Aiming to elicit a reaction rather than focusing on content. Leave the bombast and controversy to more clever wordsmiths who know how to properly use the device. Elevate your game.

Actually, I took the "even" to mean, "even Tim Carroll's great articles couldn't elicit discussion" rather than "even Tim Carroll occasionally wrote a good article."

You were wrong.

Honestly, I've always thought PIC has had some quite good writing and critical responses to Palm phones, by Tim and otherwise. Tim's blind hatred of all things Apple is just a kind of amusing irritation, like a wife/girlfriend's Hello Kitty obsession.

Timmmay's Apple bashing is for effect only. He knows that Apple has the best smartphone package available right now and that bashing iPhone and Apple is an easy way to provoke a reaction from Apple fanbois. He's merely picking the (rotting) low-lying fruit.

FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/12/2010 10:00:33 PM # Q
iPad is garbage.

iPad is basically an oversized iPod Touch.

iPad is intentionally hobbled by Steve Jobs to keep the Apple fanbois on the reservation.

iPad is a cynical, sneering mockery of Apple cultists.

iPad is the only tablet currently shipping that matters.

iPad is a brilliant melange of compromises.

iPad has the potential to revolutionize casual computing and entertainment.

iPad is not for me but it is perfect for tens of millions of others that aren't "me".

iPad deserves credit for being on sale TODAY while everyone else is only offering VAPORWARE.

iPad success could make iPhoneOS second only to Windows in terms of imporance to consumers.

iPad deserves every success it achieves.

Foleo should have become in 2007 what iPad will become in 2010.

I suspect most people who try iPad will find that they like it.

I suspect most people who buy iPad will find that they use it a lot more than they thought they would.

HP will introduce a webOS-powered "PalmPad" by December 2010.

iPad already has the momentum and critical mass of developers + users needed to assure its domimance for at least the next 2 years.

FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Tim Carroll @ 5/12/2010 11:48:43 PM # Q
FJH:
Perhaps you're trying too hard. Aiming to elicit a reaction rather than focusing on content.

Nope. I started writing for PIC in the first place 'cause I figured the best way to get Palm news would be to go digging it up myself - hence the chasing of developers for interviews, hanging out with the WebOS Internals folks on IRC, harassing Palm's PR, etc.

Timmmay's Apple bashing is for effect only. He knows that Apple has the best smartphone package available right now and that bashing iPhone and Apple is an easy way to provoke a reaction from Apple fanbois.

The latter is true - and usually quite amusing - but I also genuinely dislike Apple's policies and attitude as a company, and I find the iPhone obscenely overrated. iTunes is perhaps the worst software ever designed.

The PERFECT combination for Mike Cane types:
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/13/2010 2:26:00 AM # Q
1) Unlocked GSM Centro.

+

2) iPad

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/13/2010 2:46:06 AM # Q
I find the iPhone obscenely overrated.

How so? While I'll be the first to admit I HATED the software keyboard I tried in the original iPhone, I still give Apple credit for being the first company to figure out how to deliver a complete smartphone EXPERIENCE to the masses. You lose credibility by failing to give Apple due credit for its accomplishments.

I've been using PalmOS PDAs since you were in diapers and even I am now considering getting an iPhone. If Apple has a package good enough to tempt a hardcore PalmOS user like me it just goes to show how difficult a position Palm is in now trying to compete with the iPhone juggernaut.

Most people don't give a shite about philosophical issues regarding platform "openness", etc. They just want a stylish, well-featured phone with easy access to a ton of apps and multimedia. The simplicity and size of the App Store is well worth trading away "openness" in order to obtain.

FJH

FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
jca666us @ 5/13/2010 3:31:20 AM # M Q
I find the iPhone obscenely overrated.

That's because you're incapable of understanding and appreciating Apple's accomplishments in this space.

From your original "comparison" of the treo to the iPhone - where the treo came out ahead, to your hatchet piece on why apple should open iTunes, your articles are nothing but Palm fanboy writings disguising as journalism - perhaps you should go work at gizmodo.

iTunes is perhaps the worst software ever designed.

I think webos with it's code bloat wins that award...

Regardless, If that's the case, why did you push for Apple to open iTunes up?

I think your bashing of the iPhone and iTunes is an attempt to go against something popular in a failed effort to appear relevant.

BTW, it's great to finally see Flash on the Pre - lol!

RE: The PERFECT combination for Mike Cane types:
DarthRepublican @ 5/13/2010 1:41:28 PM # Q
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
1) Unlocked GSM Centro.

+

2) iPad

Why? I'd much rather use My Tether on my Pre to feed data to an iPad through wifi - which is what I do now with my netbook. Of course you did say "Mike Cane types" which is something of an unreachable target. Mikey hates everything. Except for maybe Life Cereal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYEXzx-TINc
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Gekko @ 5/13/2010 2:57:05 PM # Q

what exactly is a "Mike Cane Type"?


RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/14/2010 1:46:18 PM # Q
Why? I'd much rather use My Tether on my Pre to feed data to an iPad through wifi - which is what I do now with my netbook.

Keep your craptastic plastic Pre.

Advantages of Centro over Pre:

1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.
2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.
3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.
4) Exposed keyboard.
5) Larger app library.
6) Security of personal data.
7) No dependence on "the cloud".
8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.
10) SPEED.
11) More intuitive user interface.
12 Easy app development, mature development platform.
13) Standard desktop sync.

webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.

FJH

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
DarthRepublican @ 5/14/2010 5:24:35 PM # Q
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Why? I'd much rather use My Tether on my Pre to feed data to an iPad through wifi - which is what I do now with my netbook.

Keep your craptastic plastic Pre.


Thank you, I will.

Advantages of Centro over Pre:

1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.


I never tried Chattermail on PalmOS but VersaMail crashed a lot on my old Treos, my LifeDrive, and TX. My Pre's email app has never crashed on me and with the right patches, it's a good, simple email app which is all I need.

2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.

I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.

3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.

Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.

4) Exposed keyboard.

Meh, the Centro's keyboard is nice but it's not like it's exceptionally good. I'm happy with my Pre's slider.

5) Larger app library.

Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing

6) Security of personal data.

If I want to secure my data on my Pre I can do so with Keyring. In any case, there will be no real data security on mobile devices until something like TrueCrypt arrives on them.

7) No dependence on "the cloud".

Right, because it's bad when my phone backs itself up every day. It's bad when my phone can import my contacts from GMail and my appointments from Google Calendar.

8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.

I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.

10) SPEED.

My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.

11) More intuitive user interface.

No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.

12 Easy app development, mature development platform.

I'll give you the latter but not the former. Developing webOS apps is dead simple.

13) Standard desktop sync.

Classic has had Hotsync since webOS 1.3.5. It was pretty buggy at first but then again PalmOS Hotsync has always had its problems. Things are working pretty well for me as far as "standard" sync goes. In any case, cloud-based syncing is just the next evolution of the same basic syncing that Palm pioneered over a decade ago. It's time to cut the cord.

14) You forgot about one critical advantage: Documents to Go which does run under Classic but it's just not the same as running it natively.

webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.

webOS has answered most of *this* PalmOS user's questions. I struggled for eight months to replace my Treo 680 with a T-Mobile G1 and had carry a Palm TX along with it because Android's PIMs simply didn't cut it. I won't claim that webOS is perfect or even complete but it's growing by leaps and bounds in terms of capabilities. Yes, I'd like better hardware too and I'm pretty confident that we will get it soon.

In the mean time.

Advantages of the Pre over the Centro:

1. A real web browser. No more futzing with crappy WAP pages.
2. Wifi.
3. Tethering. I'm writing this sitting on a bus with my Pre feeding data to my netbook via wifi.
4. 3D gaming. It's a battery killer but it's fun.
5. Stability and robustness. Classic used to be the only app that could crash my Pre and even it has been behaving itself lately. I've never encountered a PalmOS PDA or smartphone which couldn't be crashed frequently and badly. I've even encountered stock factory-installed apps which could cause a hard reset on PalmOS devices (the Calculator on my old Treo 180g did this). I haven't encountered anything similar on my Pre.
6. Customization. Admittedly PalmOS is very customizable but webOS patches are just so amazing. I have been able to add a Today menu to my Pre's topbar which shows my Calendar entries. I've made the webOS launcher work like the original PalmOS launcher with named categories and a drop down list to navigate them. I can overclock my Pre's processor. I can put weather apps into my Dashboard or in an icon in my Quicklaunch bar. I have menu entry that allows me to use my Pre's LED as flashlight - not a crappy flashlight app that turns the screen white but a real flashlight. Add custom themes and wallpapers and
7. GPS and Universal Search. I've said it before and I'll say it a again but nothing beats being able to type out a search term like, say "refrigeration" and have Google Maps spit out a map and a nicely formatted list of local refrigeration contractors in my area complete with contact info. Searching for info has never been simpler.
8. Notifications. webOS Dashboard > a small flashing dot in the corner or the screen.
9. Homebrew. webOS has a growing and enthusiastic developer community while development for PalmOS is slowly dying.
10. The Touchstone Charger. No more messing with connectors, I just lay my phone on its charger and it charges.
11. Large hi-rez screen. After all the bitching and whining about the Treo and Centro's "small square screen," you'd think more people would appreciate the Pre nice, big screen.
12. Support. The Centro had what, three updates in its three year history? The Pre has had more than ten updates in less than one year.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
DarthRepublican @ 5/14/2010 5:30:10 PM # Q
Arrgh.

DarthRepublican wrote:
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
5) Larger app library.

Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing


I meant to say that can install apps directly over the air on my Pre much more easily than I ever could under PalmOS and without downloading them on my PC first and futzing with Hotsync.

Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/18/2010 4:54:07 AM # Q
Thank you, I will.

Good for you.


Advantages of Centro over Pre:

1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.

I never tried Chattermail on PalmOS but VersaMail crashed a lot on my old Treos, my LifeDrive, and TX. My Pre's email app has never crashed on me and with the right patches, it's a good, simple email app which is all I need.

I've used Chatteremail since it was released and it DESTROYS the Pre email app. I don't think Chatteremail has even crashed on me in the past 4 years. Palm butchered Multimail/VersaMail and failed to do much to improve what used to be the best PalmOS email app (10 years ago). Still, the version of VersaMail that shipped with Centros is better than the one that shipped with old PalmOS PDAs and early Treos.


2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.


I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.


You've "come to like" it? Wow - you sound like a battered spouse intent on making excuses for their abuser. DateBk6 exposes the Pre calendar app to be a joke.

3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.


Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.

Every time Classic or webOS are updated we hear from webOS apologists like you who claim that "this time" the Classic emulator is stable. How sad. Classic for webOS is a buggy work in progress. For Palm to have failed to include a rock solid PalmOS emulator in webOS shows how little they think of those of us who have supported the company over the past 14 years. To have the nerve to expect webOS users to PAY for Classic is shockingly arrogant - even for Palm.


4) Exposed keyboard.


Meh, the Centro's keyboard is nice but it's not like it's exceptionally good. I'm happy with my Pre's slider.

I never claimed the Centro keyboard was "exceptionally good". (Though the Sprint Centro 2 revised keyboard is the best I've used on a Palm-branded device. It IS better than the horrible recessed Pre keyboard with its sharp surrounding edges.


5) Larger app library.


Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing

Classic is unstable and needs to be purchased at extra expense. If you glue an iPhone to the back of your Pre does that make your Pre a "better" phone?


6) Security of personal data.


If I want to secure my data on my Pre I can do so with Keyring. In any case, there will be no real data security on mobile devices until something like TrueCrypt arrives on them.

All your data on Palm's servers and in Google's clutches are vulnerable. (By the way, anyone dumb enough to trust "nice" Google should look deeper into the company. Here's a start:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/14/google-private-data-colle_n_577015.html )
Contrast the vulnerable Pre with my secure Centro that is protected with TealLock and other apps. Secure phone locking, card encryption, remote wiping, etc, etc.


7) No dependence on "the cloud".


Right, because it's bad when my phone backs itself up every day. It's bad when my phone can import my contacts from GMail and my appointments from Google Calendar.

Is your phone REALLY backed up to "the cloud"? Completely? How many Pre users have tried to restore their phones and gotten burned by Palm? My Centro is backed up COMPLETELY to SD card with 3 different apps. I've never lost data due to a bad restore. What happens if your data connection fails and you need to restore your Pre? You're screwed, that's what. If disaster strikes and my Centro becomes inoperable, I can pop my SD card out of my Centro, put it into a brand new (backup) Centro and have all of my old data on the new device in less than 5 minutes. The Old Palm recognized that on-device backup was a smart idea. The New Palm is more concerned about appeasing carriers (who want all of their customers to upgrade to lucrative data plans) and pushing "the cloud", even though Palm has yet to create apps that can actually show how cloud computing has any significant use. If you trust all of your data to Google and "the cloud" you're in for a RUDE awakening.


8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.


I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.

You sound like a cult member that is in serious need of deprogramming.


10) SPEED.


My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.

My Pilot Professional has no lag. My Palm IIIx has no lag. My Centro has minimal lag. The Pre has massive lag. This is a phone - lag is NOT acceptable. You had to overclock your Pre? Hilarious. Even you got so fed up with the Pre's crappy performance that you were forced to overclock it? Yet you claim the Pre doesn't have much lag? Get real.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/26/pre-gets-a-nasty-800mhz-overclock-patch-for-all-to-enjoy-at-one/

11) More intuitive user interface.


No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.

Face it: all that swiping and card shuffling is nothing more than a GIMMICK. Even the basic PalmOS launcher is more efficient than the webOS swipey-wipey nonsense. Add Launcher X and McPhling to a Treo or Centro and behold the power of FUNCTION over GIMMICKS.


12 Easy app development, mature development platform.


I'll give you the latter but not the former. Developing webOS apps is dead simple.

Developing PalmOS apps is even simpler.


13) Standard desktop sync.


Classic has had Hotsync since webOS 1.3.5. It was pretty buggy at first but then again PalmOS Hotsync has always had its problems. Things are working pretty well for me as far as "standard" sync goes. In any case, cloud-based syncing is just the next evolution of the same basic syncing that Palm pioneered over a decade ago. It's time to cut the cord.

webOS sync remains not yet ready for prime time. Yet another example of how webOS is still in BETA stage.


14) You forgot about one critical advantage: Documents to Go which does run under Classic but it's just not the same as running it natively.

There are a lot of other webOS deficiencies that I was kind enough to not mention above. Palm's failure to get DataViz on board with Documents To Go was a shocker. Palm's beancounters probably felt the company didn't have the money to pay Dataviz, so Dataviz played hardball with Palm and embarassed the company. Expect HP to IMMEDIATELY pay Dataviz whatever they demand for a licensed webOS version of Documents To Go to be included in the ROM of every webOS device shipping later this year.


webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.


webOS has answered most of *this* PalmOS user's questions. I struggled for eight months to replace my Treo 680 with a T-Mobile G1 and had carry a Palm TX along with it because Android's PIMs simply didn't cut it. I won't claim that webOS is perfect or even complete but it's growing by leaps and bounds in terms of capabilities. Yes, I'd like better hardware too and I'm pretty confident that we will get it soon.

In the mean time.

Advantages of the Pre over the Centro:

1. A real web browser. No more futzing with crappy WAP pages.
2. Wifi.
3. Tethering. I'm writing this sitting on a bus with my Pre feeding data to my netbook via wifi.
4. 3D gaming. It's a battery killer but it's fun.
5. Stability and robustness. Classic used to be the only app that could crash my Pre and even it has been behaving itself lately. I've never encountered a PalmOS PDA or smartphone which couldn't be crashed frequently and badly. I've even encountered stock factory-installed apps which could cause a hard reset on PalmOS devices (the Calculator on my old Treo 180g did this). I haven't encountered anything similar on my Pre.
6. Customization. Admittedly PalmOS is very customizable but webOS patches are just so amazing. I have been able to add a Today menu to my Pre's topbar which shows my Calendar entries. I've made the webOS launcher work like the original PalmOS launcher with named categories and a drop down list to navigate them. I can overclock my Pre's processor. I can put weather apps into my Dashboard or in an icon in my Quicklaunch bar. I have menu entry that allows me to use my Pre's LED as flashlight - not a crappy flashlight app that turns the screen white but a real flashlight. Add custom themes and wallpapers and
7. GPS and Universal Search. I've said it before and I'll say it a again but nothing beats being able to type out a search term like, say "refrigeration" and have Google Maps spit out a map and a nicely formatted list of local refrigeration contractors in my area complete with contact info. Searching for info has never been simpler.
8. Notifications. webOS Dashboard > a small flashing dot in the corner or the screen.
9. Homebrew. webOS has a growing and enthusiastic developer community while development for PalmOS is slowly dying.
10. The Touchstone Charger. No more messing with connectors, I just lay my phone on its charger and it charges.
11. Large hi-rez screen. After all the bitching and whining about the Treo and Centro's "small square screen," you'd think more people would appreciate the Pre nice, big screen.
12. Support. The Centro had what, three updates in its three year history? The Pre has had more than ten updates in less than one year.


Can your Pre do the following:

1) Search the phone completely for a name or word?
2) Record voice memos natively?
3) Voice dial directly or over a Bluetooth headset?
4) Change/program voicemail passwords?
5) Back up the entire phone memory to media and recover data from an on-device backup?

As far as to the "Advantages of the Pre over the Centro" you listed:

1) The Centro browser may not be very modern, but it's not WAP. Do you know ANYTHING about PalmOS devices?
2) Yes, Wi-Fi is a genuine advantage.
3) Centro can tether with PDANet or USB Modem.
4) How many 3D games are available for webOS? 10? Big deal. On top of that, lack of proper gaming buttons is a deal killer in my opinion.
5) My Sprint Centro 2 is stable, fast and runs all my PalmOS apps without crashing. webOS is a slow beta OS and Classic is as flaky as hell - despite the fact that after every update Pre fanboys claim that it's finally been "fixed'. Here's a tip: The real "fix" is to either buy a Centro or for Palm to build its OWN PalmOS emulator natively into webOS (like they should have done from Day 1).
6) You think PalmOS isn't more (and more easily) customizable than webOS? How many launchers, skinners, hacks, etc. are available for PalmOS? Do a search and edumacate yourself before you spout more nonsense here.
7) GPS is nice, but my Centro has the Garmin XT GPS map app. I just have to carry a matchbook-sized GPS receiver, but that's a simple compromise. The webOS "Universal Search" wasn't nearly as useful as the ancient PalmOS "Find" function last time I checked. And Google and tryda already give me all the mobile search data *I* need/want in a phone.
8) Centro + Butler + DateBk 6 = all the "notifications" I need/want.
9) webOS community is a feeble community that would have died out over the next year when Palm declared bankruptcy had the company not been sold off. The only reason that PalmOS development is dying is because of a decade of severe, perpetual, complete, arrogant neglect by Palm, followed by one year of Palm aggressively trying to KILL PalmOS off prematurely in an effort to force people to buy webOS devices. The fact that TealPoint was able to throw together TealOS in a few weeks and so thoroughly mimic the webOS UI is a sad indictment of Palm. Had Palm bothered to FIX the missing features and bugs in PalmOS 5, freshen the user interface by (optionally) changing the native launcher to TealOS or Launcher X YEARS ago, and put out some better hardware (e.g. an iPhone form factor) running PalmOS, PalmOS would still be thriving in 2010 and there would be ZERO need for the VAST majority of customers to switch to a webOS device. And don't get me started on how Palm has treated developers over the years. The company truly doesn't deserve to have ANY developers supporting it after all the crap Palm has pulled over the years with us.
10) The Touchstone charger is a cheaply-made, overpriced SCAM. A triumph of hype and form over function. My 5 year old Treo desktop chargers that charged both the Treo and an extra battery at the same time (while taking up minimal desk space) were useful accessories. The Touchstone, on the other hand is a cynical absolute joke of Steve Jobsian-black turtlenecked-pretentious-artsy epic proportions. I definitely wouldn't list the Touchstone an "advantage" in the Pre's favor:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-and-touchstone-get-torn-down-gently-beautifully/

http://discussion.treocentral.com/palm-pre-accessories/222011-charging-battery-notification-keeps-coming-up-touchstone.html

11) while the Pre's screen is bigger and nicer than the Centro, its 3.1 inch 480 x 320 screen certainly doesn't qualify as "large" or "hi-rez". Not with 4.3 inch 800 x 480 screens popping up on the HTC HD2 and EVO and 4 inch screens becoming commonplace. In fact, 3.5 inch screens are starting to look downright puny these days. I'm in the minority, though in that I prefer smaller phones. I actually prefer the Centro form factor (despite the Small Square Screen) over the Pre's.
12) Do you not realize that only reason Palm is releasing frequent updates to webOS is because the OS was originally released in beta form? Are you THAT naive? Even the current version of webOS (1.4) would more accurately be labelled as webOS 0.95b.

Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

You have been epic schooled.
Bring me my cognac.

FJH
- Schooling fools since... forever.

RE: What has happened to Palminfocenter? Can it be saved?
DarthRepublican @ 5/18/2010 9:00:16 AM # Q
Fake Jeff Hawkins wrote:
Thank you, I will.

Good for you.


Advantages of Centro over Pre:

2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.


I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.

You've "come to like" it? Wow - you sound like a battered spouse intent on making excuses for their abuser. DateBk6 exposes the Pre calendar app to be a joke.

So you're entire argument here is a variation of the "Are you still beating your wife?" argument? I have Datebk5 and can use it side by side with the default Calendar on the Pre. So unless Datebk made a quantum leap in functionality between versions 5 and 6, I don't see a gigantic advantage in in Datebk over the Pre Calendar app. That's not to say that Datebk doesn't have its advantages, that's why I still run it under Classic.

3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.


Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.

Every time Classic or webOS are updated we hear from webOS apologists like you who claim that "this time" the Classic emulator is stable. How sad. Classic for webOS is a buggy work in progress. For Palm to have failed to include a rock solid PalmOS emulator in webOS shows how little they think of those of us who have supported the company over the past 14 years. To have the nerve to expect webOS users to PAY for Classic is shockingly arrogant - even for Palm.

Technically it's MotionApps which expects us to pay for Classic - and yes it is charging way too much. Having said that, MotionApps has worked hard to improve it and answer questions from users and improve Classic. And it shows, Classic used to be the only webOS app that could crash my entire phone. And since version 1.4 of webOS it no longer does that; it is still too slow to start up but we'll see if that improves in the future. Ultimately, all software is buggy and a work in progress, it's just a question of degrees and Classic has reached a point where I still want it to improve but am otherwise happy with it.

Incidentally, I was recently asked to be a guest blogger for MotionApps' blog. I was not compensated in any way and it was little more than a copy and paste of post I had previously made on Precentral. Feel free to make of this what you will.

8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.


I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.

You sound like a cult member that is in serious need of deprogramming.


How nice that you've appointed yourself as my deprogrammer....

10) SPEED.


My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.

My Pilot Professional has no lag. My Palm IIIx has no lag. My Centro has minimal lag. The Pre has massive lag. This is a phone - lag is NOT acceptable. You had to overclock your Pre? Hilarious. Even you got so fed up with the Pre's crappy performance that you were forced to overclock it? Yet you claim the Pre doesn't have much lag? Get real.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/26/pre-gets-a-nasty-800mhz-overclock-patch-for-all-to-enjoy-at-one/


Keep on telling me how slow my phone is; I'm sure I'll eventually believe it. (This must be why I got fed up with my T-Mobile G1's lag, because you told me it was slow.) Incidentally, my claim was, "I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel." I happen to think that this is a fairly reasonable claim.

11) More intuitive user interface.

No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.

Face it: all that swiping and card shuffling is nothing more than a GIMMICK. Even the basic PalmOS launcher is more efficient than the webOS swipey-wipey nonsense. Add Launcher X and McPhling to a Treo or Centro and behold the power of FUNCTION over GIMMICKS.


I actually did use LauncherX, ZLauncher, and several other launchers on my various PalmOS PDAs and Treos but I always kept coming back to the simple and clean default PalmOS launcher. And guess what? The webOS launcher looks a whole like the default PalmOS launcher. And I've made it look even more like the PalmOS launcher using the "Add and Remove Launcher Page" and "Named Pages in Launcher" patches.

I also used McPhling on my PDAs as well. On the Treos, the most recently used apps menu pop up made it less necessary but it came in handy for running DAs. But DAs for me were mostly away to get around the fact that PalmOS has no multi-tasking. Multi-tasking is the feature that works best on webOS and its easy to launch apps through Universal Search so I don't miss McPhling.

Can your Pre do the following:

1) Search the phone completely for a name or word?


Nope. And yes, this is a shortcoming no doubt about it.


2) Record voice memos natively?

Yes. Through zcorder.


3) Voice dial directly or over a Bluetooth headset?

I have never encountered a phone where this feature actually worked *well* so I don't miss it.


4) Change/program voicemail passwords?

No. Another feather for your cap.


5) Back up the entire phone memory to media and recover data from an on-device backup?

Actually there is a Save/Restore Homebrew app available for webOS.


As far as to the "Advantages of the Pre over the Centro" you listed:

1) The Centro browser may not be very modern, but it's not WAP. Do you know ANYTHING about PalmOS devices?


Obviously not as much as you but the truth is that the Centro browser is a very poor excuse for anything other than very simple web pages. It may not technically be WAP but it might as well be. Any modern mobile browser, the webOS browser included, stands head and shoulders above the Centro's browser and has to be considered to be a huge advantage in today's web-centric world.


5) My Sprint Centro 2 is stable, fast and runs all my PalmOS apps without crashing. webOS is a slow beta OS and Classic is as flaky as hell - despite the fact that after every update Pre fanboys claim that it's finally been "fixed'. Here's a tip: The real "fix" is to either buy a Centro or for Palm to build its OWN PalmOS emulator natively into webOS (like they should have done from Day 1).

I didn't believe you the first 500 times you said this but now, on the 501st time, I'm finally convinced. I vow to ditch my Pre and buy a Centro off ebay immediately.


6) You think PalmOS isn't more (and more easily) customizable than webOS? How many launchers, skinners, hacks, etc. are available for PalmOS? Do a search and edumacate yourself before you spout more nonsense here.

As I wrote above, I did try a lot of l PalmOS launchers before going back to the default. I also tried several skinners, including Dmitry Grinberg's excellent SkinUI. And I used numerous hacks in the both the pre and post-Garnet era. So I think I'm pretty familiar with customization options for PalmOS. As for webOS, I count 1517 installable themes (I periodically change my phone's theme from time to time) and 348 patches (of which I've installed 61).


7) GPS is nice, but my Centro has the Garmin XT GPS map app. I just have to carry a matchbook-sized GPS receiver, but that's a simple compromise. The webOS "Universal Search" wasn't nearly as useful as the ancient PalmOS "Find" function last time I checked. And Google and tryda already give me all the mobile search data *I* need/want in a phone.

And of course your needs and wants are more important than mine....

Universal Search isn't perfect but its integration of Google, Google Maps, and Wikipedia and are invaluable to *me.* I never really understood the amount of love that Tryda got from people around here. It always seemed to forget its registration info if I didn't use it constantly which made a lot less useful to *me.*


12) Do you not realize that only reason Palm is releasing frequent updates to webOS is because the OS was originally released in beta form? Are you THAT naive? Even the current version of webOS (1.4) would more accurately be labelled as webOS 0.95b.

And yet Palm went years without updating Treo 700p. And the updates that they did put out for it never really fixed it for a lot of people. So I give them credit for getting their head out of their ass and actually fixing their bugs instead of letting them linger for years.


Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

You have been epic schooled.
Bring me my cognac.

FJH
- Schooling fools since... forever.


I find it ironic that someone who routinely excoriates Palm for its supposed arrogance can conclude a post this way. But hey, if that's what it takes to work out your issues....
Fool/Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
Someone kindly deleted my post fixing the HTML tag...
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/18/2010 10:31:11 PM # Q
Thank you, I will.

Good for you.


Advantages of Centro over Pre:

1) email - Chatteremail and even VersaMail make Pre's email solution look bad.

I never tried Chattermail on PalmOS but VersaMail crashed a lot on my old Treos, my LifeDrive, and TX. My Pre's email app has never crashed on me and with the right patches, it's a good, simple email app which is all I need.

I've used Chatteremail since it was released and it DESTROYS the Pre email app. I don't think Chatteremail has even crashed on me in the past 4 years. Palm butchered Multimail/VersaMail and failed to do much to improve what used to be the best PalmOS email app (10 years ago). Still, the version of VersaMail that shipped with Centros is better than the one that shipped with old PalmOS PDAs and early Treos.


2) PIM - Ability to run and sync bulletproof native Palm PIM and brilliant PIM replacement apps like DateBk6.


I've actually come to like the Calendar app on my Pre precisely because it can sync to multiple calendars and I can run DateBk under Classic.


You've "come to like" it? Wow - you sound like a battered spouse intent on making excuses for their abuser. DateBk6 exposes the Pre calendar app to be a joke.

3) Runs PalmOS 5 apps without crashing 10 times per day like the Garnet emulator Pre users are forced to buy.


Actually, Classic has been pretty stable since webOS 1.4 came out so I'm pretty happy with it these days.

Every time Classic or webOS are updated we hear from webOS apologists like you who claim that "this time" the Classic emulator is stable. How sad. Classic for webOS is a buggy work in progress. For Palm to have failed to include a rock solid PalmOS emulator in webOS shows how little they think of those of us who have supported the company over the past 14 years. To have the nerve to expect webOS users to PAY for Classic is shockingly arrogant - even for Palm.


4) Exposed keyboard.


Meh, the Centro's keyboard is nice but it's not like it's exceptionally good. I'm happy with my Pre's slider.

I never claimed the Centro keyboard was "exceptionally good". (Though the Sprint Centro 2 revised keyboard is the best I've used on a Palm-branded device.) It IS better than the horrible recessed Pre keyboard with its sharp surrounding edges.


5) Larger app library.


Until you factor in Classic. And I can install apps directly on my Pre without futzing

Classic is unstable and needs to be purchased at extra expense. If you glue an iPhone to the back of your Pre does that make your Pre a "better" phone?


6) Security of personal data.


If I want to secure my data on my Pre I can do so with Keyring. In any case, there will be no real data security on mobile devices until something like TrueCrypt arrives on them.

All your data on Palm's servers and in Google's clutches are vulnerable. (By the way, anyone dumb enough to trust "nice" Google should look deeper into the company. Here's a start:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/14/google-private-data-colle_n_577015.html )
Contrast the vulnerable Pre with my secure Centro that is protected with TealLock and other apps. Secure phone locking, card encryption, remote wiping, etc, etc.


7) No dependence on "the cloud".


Right, because it's bad when my phone backs itself up every day. It's bad when my phone can import my contacts from GMail and my appointments from Google Calendar.

Is your phone REALLY backed up to "the cloud"? Completely? How many Pre users have tried to restore their phones and gotten burned by Palm? My Centro is backed up COMPLETELY to SD card with 3 different apps. I've never lost data due to a bad restore. What happens if your data connection fails and you need to restore your Pre? You're screwed, that's what. If disaster strikes and my Centro becomes inoperable, I can pop my SD card out of my Centro, put it into a brand new (backup) Centro and have all of my old data on the new device in less than 5 minutes. The Old Palm recognized that on-device backup was a smart idea. The New Palm is more concerned about appeasing carriers (who want all of their customers to upgrade to lucrative data plans) and pushing "the cloud", even though Palm has yet to create apps that can actually show how cloud computing has any significant use. If you trust all of your data to Google and "the cloud" you're in for a RUDE awakening.


8) On-device backup and recovery.
9) Easy memory expansion with SD cards.


I do miss SD cards but not as much as I thought I would.

You sound like a cult member that is in serious need of deprogramming.


10) SPEED.


My old Treos had lag. The Centro had less lag. My old LifeDrive had *a lot* of lag. And my Palm TX very little lag. I don't really see much lag on my Pre, especially now that I'm overclocking it to 800 MHz with the Uber Kernel.

My Pilot Professional has no lag. My Palm IIIx has no lag. My Centro has minimal lag. The Pre has massive lag. This is a phone - lag is NOT acceptable. You had to overclock your Pre? Hilarious. Even you got so fed up with the Pre's crappy performance that you were forced to overclock it? Yet you claim the Pre doesn't have much lag? Get real.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/26/pre-gets-a-nasty-800mhz-overclock-patch-for-all-to-enjoy-at-one/

11) More intuitive user interface.


No, not to me.I loved PalmOS and I still use it when I POS apps under Classic but webOS is every bit as simple and intuitive as POS.

Face it: all that swiping and card shuffling is nothing more than a GIMMICK. Even the basic PalmOS launcher is more efficient than the webOS swipey-wipey nonsense. Add Launcher X and McPhling to a Treo or Centro and behold the power of FUNCTION over GIMMICKS.


12 Easy app development, mature development platform.


I'll give you the latter but not the former. Developing webOS apps is dead simple.

Developing PalmOS apps is even simpler.


13) Standard desktop sync.


Classic has had Hotsync since webOS 1.3.5. It was pretty buggy at first but then again PalmOS Hotsync has always had its problems. Things are working pretty well for me as far as "standard" sync goes. In any case, cloud-based syncing is just the next evolution of the same basic syncing that Palm pioneered over a decade ago. It's time to cut the cord.

webOS sync remains not yet ready for prime time. Yet another example of how webOS is still in BETA stage.


14) You forgot about one critical advantage: Documents to Go which does run under Classic but it's just not the same as running it natively.

There are a lot of other webOS deficiencies that I was kind enough to not mention above. Palm's failure to get DataViz on board with Documents To Go was a shocker. Palm's beancounters probably felt the company didn't have the money to pay Dataviz, so Dataviz played hardball with Palm and embarassed the company. Expect HP to IMMEDIATELY pay Dataviz whatever they demand for a licensed webOS version of Documents To Go to be included in the ROM of every webOS device shipping later this year.


webOS currently is answering a question that no PalmOS users were asking. Palm needs to bring out better HARDWARE and fix the multiple glaring problems with webOS pronto, or else iPhone and Android are going to kill webOS before it even has a chance to catch on.


webOS has answered most of *this* PalmOS user's questions. I struggled for eight months to replace my Treo 680 with a T-Mobile G1 and had carry a Palm TX along with it because Android's PIMs simply didn't cut it. I won't claim that webOS is perfect or even complete but it's growing by leaps and bounds in terms of capabilities. Yes, I'd like better hardware too and I'm pretty confident that we will get it soon.

In the mean time.

Advantages of the Pre over the Centro:

1. A real web browser. No more futzing with crappy WAP pages.
2. Wifi.
3. Tethering. I'm writing this sitting on a bus with my Pre feeding data to my netbook via wifi.
4. 3D gaming. It's a battery killer but it's fun.
5. Stability and robustness. Classic used to be the only app that could crash my Pre and even it has been behaving itself lately. I've never encountered a PalmOS PDA or smartphone which couldn't be crashed frequently and badly. I've even encountered stock factory-installed apps which could cause a hard reset on PalmOS devices (the Calculator on my old Treo 180g did this). I haven't encountered anything similar on my Pre.
6. Customization. Admittedly PalmOS is very customizable but webOS patches are just so amazing. I have been able to add a Today menu to my Pre's topbar which shows my Calendar entries. I've made the webOS launcher work like the original PalmOS launcher with named categories and a drop down list to navigate them. I can overclock my Pre's processor. I can put weather apps into my Dashboard or in an icon in my Quicklaunch bar. I have menu entry that allows me to use my Pre's LED as flashlight - not a crappy flashlight app that turns the screen white but a real flashlight. Add custom themes and wallpapers and
7. GPS and Universal Search. I've said it before and I'll say it a again but nothing beats being able to type out a search term like, say "refrigeration" and have Google Maps spit out a map and a nicely formatted list of local refrigeration contractors in my area complete with contact info. Searching for info has never been simpler.
8. Notifications. webOS Dashboard > a small flashing dot in the corner or the screen.
9. Homebrew. webOS has a growing and enthusiastic developer community while development for PalmOS is slowly dying.
10. The Touchstone Charger. No more messing with connectors, I just lay my phone on its charger and it charges.
11. Large hi-rez screen. After all the bitching and whining about the Treo and Centro's "small square screen," you'd think more people would appreciate the Pre nice, big screen.
12. Support. The Centro had what, three updates in its three year history? The Pre has had more than ten updates in less than one year.


Can your Pre do the following:

1) Search the phone completely for a name or word?
2) Record voice memos natively?
3) Voice dial directly or over a Bluetooth headset?
4) Change/program voicemail passwords?
5) Back up the entire phone memory to media and recover data from an on-device backup?

As far as to the "Advantages of the Pre over the Centro" you listed:

1) The Centro browser may not be very modern, but it's not WAP. Do you know ANYTHING about PalmOS devices?
2) Yes, Wi-Fi is a genuine advantage.
3) Centro can tether with PDANet or USB Modem.
4) How many 3D games are available for webOS? 10? Big deal. On top of that, lack of proper gaming buttons is a deal killer in my opinion.
5) My Sprint Centro 2 is stable, fast and runs all my PalmOS apps without crashing. webOS is a slow beta OS and Classic is as flaky as hell - despite the fact that after every update Pre fanboys claim that it's finally been "fixed'. Here's a tip: The real "fix" is to either buy a Centro or for Palm to build its OWN PalmOS emulator natively into webOS (like they should have done from Day 1).
6) You think PalmOS isn't more (and more easily) customizable than webOS? How many launchers, skinners, hacks, etc. are available for PalmOS? Do a search and edumacate yourself before you spout more nonsense here.
7) GPS is nice, but my Centro has the Garmin XT GPS map app. I just have to carry a matchbook-sized GPS receiver, but that's a simple compromise. The webOS "Universal Search" wasn't nearly as useful as the ancient PalmOS "Find" function last time I checked. And Google and tryda already give me all the mobile search data *I* need/want in a phone.
8) Centro + Butler + DateBk 6 = all the "notifications" I need/want.
9) webOS community is a feeble community that would have died out over the next year when Palm declared bankruptcy had the company not been sold off. The only reason that PalmOS development is dying is because of a decade of severe, perpetual, complete, arrogant neglect by Palm, followed by one year of Palm aggressively trying to KILL PalmOS off prematurely in an effort to force people to buy webOS devices. The fact that TealPoint was able to throw together TealOS in a few weeks and so thoroughly mimic the webOS UI is a sad indictment of Palm. Had Palm bothered to FIX the missing features and bugs in PalmOS 5, freshen the user interface by (optionally) changing the native launcher to TealOS or Launcher X YEARS ago, and put out some better hardware (e.g. an iPhone form factor) running PalmOS, PalmOS would still be thriving in 2010 and there would be ZERO need for the VAST majority of customers to switch to a webOS device. And don't get me started on how Palm has treated developers over the years. The company truly doesn't deserve to have ANY developers supporting it after all the crap Palm has pulled over the years with us.
10) The Touchstone charger is a cheaply-made, overpriced SCAM. A triumph of hype and form over function. My 5 year old Treo desktop chargers that charged both the Treo and an extra battery at the same time (while taking up minimal desk space) were useful accessories. The Touchstone, on the other hand is a cynical absolute joke of Steve Jobsian-black turtlenecked-pretentious-artsy epic proportions. I definitely wouldn't list the Touchstone an "advantage" in the Pre's favor:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-and-touchstone-get-torn-down-gently-beautifully/

http://discussion.treocentral.com/palm-pre-accessories/222011-charging-battery-notification-keeps-coming-up-touchstone.html

11) while the Pre's screen is bigger and nicer than the Centro, its 3.1 inch 480 x 320 screen certainly doesn't qualify as "large" or "hi-rez". Not with 4.3 inch 800 x 480 screens popping up on the HTC HD2 and EVO and 4 inch screens becoming commonplace. In fact, 3.5 inch screens are starting to look downright puny these days. I'm in the minority, though in that I prefer smaller phones. I actually prefer the Centro form factor (despite the Small Square Screen) over the Pre's.
12) Do you not realize that only reason Palm is releasing frequent updates to webOS is because the OS was originally released in beta form? Are you THAT naive? Even the current version of webOS (1.4) would more accurately be labelled as webOS 0.95b.

Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

You have been epic schooled.
Bring me my cognac.

FJH
- Schooling fools since... forever.

Reply to this comment

Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet

mikecane @ 5/8/2010 4:11:39 PM # Q
HP bringing a Hurricane of webOS to tablet
http://besttabletreview.com/hp-hurricane-webos-tablet

Dump out the Android, pour in the webOS, write the missing drivers, done.

I hope so!!

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
gmayhak @ 5/8/2010 6:42:00 PM # Q
I still don't get it :-/ What is WebOS besides putting everything on the cloud? That's the number one reason we were so disappointed with it! Number two reason, It gathers up all your Facebook, Twitters & other useless stuff into a nice package. Number three, it mainly uses web tools for app development, that's where Apple was years ago!
HP ceased being HP with the Compaq deal. In the early years they were innovators designing technology advancing hardware, state of the art led displays and cutting edge calculators, now they are feeding off other companies. I expect another looser product from HP.

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
gmayhak @ 5/8/2010 7:42:36 PM # Q
ps, I was near-by when they were great. I worked at Ampex (Sunnyvale) at the time and the team that developed the display for the HP-35 were in the same area. When HP put the HP-35 on the market their people visited local companies and demonstrated its capabilities, one on one!
In 2007 they tried to re-create the magic but lcd displays just don't hack it!

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
gmayhak @ 5/8/2010 7:44:56 PM # Q
HP-35s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_35s

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
gmayhak @ 5/8/2010 7:45:15 PM # Q
HP-35s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_35s

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
hkklife @ 5/8/2010 9:04:48 PM # Q
gmayhak wrote:
I still don't get it...Gary

-What is it besides putting everything on the cloud? Not much, really. PIM apps are far infeior to Garnet (though still supior to BlackBerry and Android and on par with iPhone). The Pre's stock email client is arguably the worst in the industry other than (you guessed it) the stock Android email client (not the Gmail app, the POP/IMAP app). ChatterEmail trounces the Pre's email app, as does VersaMail (imagine that!).

-It gathers up all your Facebook, Twitters & other useless stuff into a nice package. Absolutely pointless, especially when all of these things will become passe in a few years' time. Remember Myspace? Geocities? ICQ? Napster? Alll of these faddish social networking THINGS eventually fade away. A solid piece of standalone tech (Newton, original Pilot, Mac Classic, Gameboy, Walkman) is timeless.

-Number three, it mainly uses web tools for app development, that's where Apple was years ago. Handy, helpful, but hardly a game-changer or the thing that Joe User cares about when he walks into his local cell phone shop to buy a new smartphone.

At this point WebOS is appealing to HP and non-Apple fans because:

1. It's done (more or less)
2. It's a non-Apple platform/ecosystem
3. It multitasks well
4. It has a unique UI (note I didn't say "better" or "more efficient")
5. HP owns it. Prior to this, it was the best available option for someone to have their "own" OS.
6.It will theoretically run on a wider variety of hardware than what Apple offers (physical keyboards, removable batteries, sliders, possibly removable memory card slots etc)

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
jca666us @ 5/8/2010 10:33:22 PM # M Q
It will theoretically run on a wider variety of hardware than what Apple offers (physical keyboards, removable batteries, sliders, possibly removable memory card slots etc)

iPhone os is os x - os x runs on every personal computer apple sells as well as the iPod touch and the iPad.

we'll see how badly hp screws the pooch in a few months.

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
hkklife @ 5/9/2010 12:10:04 AM # Q
Mobile hardware...I meant handheld, pocketable smartphone hardware, JCA. I cannot fit a MacBook Pro in my pocket.

IF there was a CDMA iPhone with similar hardware to the HTC Incredible, Evo, or Moto Droid, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat!!!

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
jca666us @ 5/9/2010 7:21:59 AM # Q
hkk, i think you're missing my point. almost anything os x supports can be migrated over to iphone os.

apple is conservative with their hardware choices at times, but they have a great deal of flexibility wrt software.

RE: Rumor: HP webOS Hurricane tablet
mikecane @ 5/9/2010 3:29:49 PM # Q
>>>At this point WebOS is appealing to HP and non-Apple fans because:

Yes. And because without Archos's video playing software, Android is worthless.

I expect HP to add a real video player to webOS. MP4/3GP ain't enough.

Reply to this comment

Yo

Gekko @ 5/9/2010 7:46:46 AM # Q

yo - i'm over at the Android forums trying to build up my arsenal of knowledge. at this point i'm getting the Sprint HTC Evo 4G. 4.3" display, 1GHZ processor, 4G network, 1GB ROM, 8MP camera, dual camera, etc. etc. is sweet. HTC Sense UI and HTC Apps polishes up Android quite nicely.

for those of you waiting and hoping that HP is some savior that's going to suddenly create some miracle webOS device i say good luck. if you've ever used an HP device/bloated software you know what i mean. and i can't think of a more bland, unimaginative company than HP. not to mention you'll be out there on an island all alone with webOS.

i should have my EVO 4G by June. maybe i'll post a review. maybe i'll call or write you a letter. maybe i'll see you on the fourth of July. but I'm not too sure and I'm not too proud to say - aha - it was good.

http://tinyurl.com/2gxxg4a

RE: Yo
richf @ 5/9/2010 9:13:05 AM # Q
Reminds me of a technician that quit while I was working. I tried for 4 years to get this guys potential out of him. His last day he comes into my office to say goodbye. He says "Its been real and its been good, but not real good." I said "hit the road Jack."
However keep in mind we would be interested in you opinion. I have been working on the transition to Droid myself. Several times a week I pick up the Treo just to get a fact or info out of the old Palm. Another hundred times a week I try to justify to myself a good reason to pay full list for a webos device. I have apps on the Droid that I cannot do on the Treo but there things on the Treo that I don't have on the Droid. Please keep us posted on your findings. I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
RE: Yo
mikecane @ 5/9/2010 3:31:55 PM # Q
Counting down to Gekko's inevitable bitter disappointment.

And for a while there, Gekko, HP had the best damned netbooks, quality-wise. They raised the bar that Asus set with all-plastic disposable stuff.

RE: Yo
Gekko @ 5/9/2010 5:55:05 PM # Q
RE: Yo
richf @ 5/10/2010 5:43:29 AM # Q
WOW! That is one impressive phone. I'm always a day late and a dollar short. Hung up with Verizon. Just renewed in december. Darn.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
RE: Yo
twrock @ 5/10/2010 7:47:57 PM # Q
(I guess I picked an interesting moment to see what's been going on back in the old neighborhood.)

[i]"Counting down to Gekko's inevitable bitter disappointment."[/i]

Yes, he'll be disappointed. I can't imagine otherwise. It took me a long time to get used to my Android phone and to get it to function the way I want it to. (But on a positive note, I was able to get it there.) And even still, the Calendar API is simply abysmal. I can only hope it gets an upgrade some day.

So unless Gekko's got more than the few days of patience he's displayed in the past, he'll return it.

I almost laughed out loud at FJH's comments above. Just as much the narcissist as TVOR before him. ;-)

But at least this whole HP acquisition has once again peaked my interest in Palm. I guess I'm always going to wonder what's happening with Palm until they really are dead and gone. Time will tell if HP knows what to do with their new toy.

Oh, and I wouldn't want to miss this opportunity to once again say "hi" to all the iPhone fanboys who are so very right about everything and know what's good for all of us, if we'd just cooperate and do what we are told. Yes, you are so right, Steve knows best. :D

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Yo
Gekko @ 5/13/2010 2:35:52 PM # Q

well i pre-ordered my EVO 4G at Best Buy today. put down $50 for a Friday June 4, 2010 pick up. $199 total cost.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/null/Sprint+HTC+EVO/pcmcat208500050003.c?id=pcmcat208500050003


RE: Yo
mikecane @ 5/13/2010 3:09:41 PM # Q
I saw a report of the launch of that on this old device called a TeeVee.

Looks pretty slick, but then all they showed were the slick parts: live two-way video, YouTube, and HDTV video to a, um, HDTV TeeVee.

Man does not live by slick non-PIM stuff alone!

You'll be back. And happy to use Classic too! Nyahahahaha!

RE: Yo
Gekko @ 5/13/2010 3:17:20 PM # Q
RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/13/2010 9:29:13 PM # Q
Eh Gekko,

i guess Palm is going to have to work much harder to earn your business. i'm sure eventually they will.

Don't be a stranger and keep in touch no hard feelings appreciate your concern for my health.

All the best,

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
Gekko @ 5/14/2010 9:38:53 AM # Q

"I always think of mobile computing as personal computing. This long-term vision has led us through everything -- first the organizers and now through the smart phone space. It's like everything a personal computer is. Continue down that path. What are the implications of a world where everyone has a super high-speed Internet connection in their pocket and many gigabytes of storage, super-fast processors, audio, visual and multimedia? What are the consequences of that? How will that change computing when you have all that stuff available to you all the time? I try to think into the future. That's how we come up with new products." - Jeff Hawkins - July 2005

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2005/08/01/focus6.html


HTC EVO 4G
* Large, vibrant 4.3-inch screen
* Blazing-fast 1 GHz Snapdragon processor
* Top-notch HTML Web browser
* Two cameras, including an 8.0MP
* 3G/4G mobile hotspot capability connects up to 8 Wi-Fi-enabled devices
* Google mobile services including Google Maps, Gmail and YouTube
* Social network integration with Facebook, Twitter, Flickr and more
* Works in 3G and 4G markets
* HDMI connection
* 1 GB ROM
* MicroSD slot with up to 32 GB card support

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 11:06:38 AM # Q
Further to that statement one could add what is the purpose for all that computing power is to have a less hostile planet?

Here some some thoughts:

What if Saddam could have picked up a smartphone and looked for solutions to his energy problem. Would he have found out about solar technology and immediately network a solution far better than a war. Would he have found out that Afghanistan understands solar technology and could have discovered a peaceful solution to his energy issue. After all war is not a solutions it is a consequence. Perhaps the consequence of war is a lack of access to knowledge. Can smartphones aid in such deficiencies?

In North America we have all this network technology/capability yet few factories to build our thoughts. We seem to network well yet have to go off shore to build our thoughts. That seems extremely slow when we are thinking at light speed. It's like the modem that can only process so fast yet the PC has much power yet useless if the modem is slow. It is sad to think our thoughts are useless because we can not develop them fast enough. Perhaps a consequence of having one market manufacture all our technology. Do we need to spread global manufacturing around a little? Makes sense to build with the people that have shared their thoughts. Build manufacturing facilities with people that have shared their thoughts as all have a vested interest in success. They are our thoughts hence ours to build. Cost? How much are we losing by not manufacturing our ideas and getting slowed down my lack of manufacturing facilities that understand our thoughts?

Gekko i am happy you are happy with your choice and find joy to share at Palminfocenter. Your joy is my joy.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
gmayhak @ 5/14/2010 12:03:59 PM # Q
Hi E-T,
Here's a guy that's trying to do some of the things you are talking about in a small way. He has no money to speak of so maybe you can think of ways to help with his cause.
He has written an Expert System that runs on my M-5 Expert System for Palm OS and thinks it might generate a little funding by licensing to some of the other help organizations so I donated M-5 to him.

http://www.diyngo.org/

Read the 2 newsletters to see what he's doing..

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 2:38:22 PM # Q
Gary, i am responding to the shout 1 and shout 2 pdf.

A great idea that should get funding. It reminds me of Dr without boarders for technology. Healthy people like to trade too. Trade without boarders could work with Dr. without boarders to help people become self sustaining through trade too. Charity is great too it gets people in need the help they require. Trade allows people to be self sufficient and less dependent ... free.

It's a great way to show a complete concept in action. E-motion could work too. E-motion would show how motion from walking can create electricity to help power mobile technology. The total package is very good. Combine their effort with language translation technology and one could begin to interact immediately.

What do you think of creating an organization called Trade Without Boarders? It could fund initiatives like this to help global trade with technology and help share knowledge.

E-T


e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 3:20:04 PM # Q
Gary,

TWB (Trade Without Boarders) could be a stock symbol. All they need to do is get TWB registered and make sure the legalities are in place and they can start raising capital. i think they will do well, it is a good cause to help others to be free. They'll be be able to register as a non-profit entity if that helps. Naturally all their expenses will be covered and later if it works better could always become incorporated if that is a direction they have to go.

Some thoughts to expand upon.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 3:29:18 PM # Q
Gary,

TWB is currently a registered stock symbol. Will have to come up with a new name Trade With Out Boarders (TWOB) to be or not to be ... "There are no All Markets results for twob". Good luck let me know how things are going.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
gmayhak @ 5/14/2010 4:14:20 PM # Q
E-T,
I was only trying to help you find a place to do some good, if you have ways to help them please contact Tim directly.

ps, I myself am all in favor of borders!

Gary
Arizona desert.
Tech Center Labs

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 5:36:08 PM # Q
Gary,

Thanks for your help.

Does Tim come to Palminfocenter?

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
gmayhak @ 5/14/2010 7:27:42 PM # Q
E-T,
I don't know, my only contact with him was regarding the M-5 software but for sure he's a Palm user and someone who is trying to make things better in the world.

Gary

(my latest iPad app... http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/monster-heads-tic-tac-toe-hd/id371563916?mt=8 ;)
Tech Center Labs
www.talestuff.com
www.iTalentProductions.com

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 8:16:36 PM # Q
Gary,

Definitely seems like a PIC member to me.

If you're in contact with Tim let him know some friends over at PIC have some thought to help with his work. It may not end up being of value but it is here for him.

TWOB (Trade With Out Boarders) could be a vehicle for raising capital to continue his endeavor. Trade is good for the global economy too and offers people knowledge that want it. Just imagine if Saddam could have picked up a smartphone and found an energy solution how many family and friends would have been saved. The planet has many solutions for energy war is not one of them ... incredibly disappointing.

Well no point in dwelling on the past. To learn and encourage better interaction that is always in the future. Tim is in the right direction more people encouraging peaceful trade via knowledge and understanding can only help.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 9:08:37 PM # Q
Gary,

Another fine app you have created. Apple is fortunate to have you developing for them. Tech Center Labs do good work.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
DocT @ 5/15/2010 8:27:30 AM # Q
Hey guys,

Thanks for the link Gary. We sure could do with help regarding funding ideas. We did approach a professional outfit at one point who came up with some wild ideas but they didn't really float.

What do you have in mind precisely please?

BTW, you can contact us at info@diyngo.org

Thanks,

Tim

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/15/2010 9:36:57 AM # Q
Tim, welcome to PIC,

i have posted some thoughts above. Your work involves creating self sustainability through trade a good cause. If people want technology they will have to have the means to buy it. That requires jobs. Africa is in a sunny climate that climate can produce solar energy. These are good jobs and can help provide the income to purchase technology. They may need some help to get started this can be done with a grant or loan that the solar grids can pay back once up and running. The energy can be sold to the surrounding neighbors this will require more work create more jobs which create more income for purchasing technology or what ever they want. Such freedom is nice to have.
Stock symbol TWOB (Trade With Out Boarders), as mentioned above, can help raise the capital to continue your work and help build trade.

Let us know your progress.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 5:05:36 PM # Q
Gekko are you in? Moral support is good too.

So far we have Tim, Gary and E-T. How many more PIC members would be interested in supporting TWOB?

To be or not to be ...

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
Gekko @ 5/16/2010 5:26:09 PM # Q
RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 6:05:24 PM # Q
:-(lol)

Thanks Gekko. Am i to take this to mean that you need more time to think about an answer? We are parked in your thread and that is contribution enough. Should i include you as in then? Would you be the fourth member of PIC to help Tim by getting TWOB ... to be? Can we accept our differences to work together for a good cause?

E-T


e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 6:22:07 PM # Q
Ryan, if we succeed in getting TWOB ... to be on the stock market could you post a link to it at Palminfocenter similar to what you did with Palm? The thinking is TWOB could raise capital to take Palm devices to Africa to have the people interact with.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
hkklife @ 5/16/2010 7:22:51 PM # Q
Keep in mind that every product released by Palm Inc. since October of 2005 has been a connected smartphone. Palm is not big on selling unlocked devices, nor are you likely to find any reliable coverage in 95% of Africa, certainly not 3G data.

Something like one of Acceeca's ruggedized Palm OS handhelds would be far better suited to this endeavor:

http://www.aceeca.com/home/meazura_overview.php

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 8:59:15 PM # Q
hkklife, welcome aboard.

Africa can build cell/data infrastructure and once the solar industry is established there will be electricity and revenue. Once there is electricity and revenue 3G could be the next project or depending on how well TWOB does the electrical grid and the cell/data coverage could be built around the same time. 95% coverage seems a great opportunity for growth. Perhaps is the short term the "Acceeca's ruggedized Palm OS handhelds" would be a good start though HP Palm may want to get their brand out too. The issue is the cost of HP Palm. HP Palm is a high end product that will need a strong economy to sell to. So the faster the solar business and data infrastructure is built and generating revenue the better for more choices. This also gives HP Palm a new market for engineering product. Africa's needs are different then North America as you pointed out in some places a rugged solution would be the answer.

We need to hear from Tim too he is in the field and knows what is needed. Right now we are focused on getting TWOB to the stage where we can get funding for Tim. Once Tim has funding then he can do more and purchase technology that will work now and in the future. It would be nice to have a mobile cell/data center that he can show to the people. Then he could show smartphones in action and the smartphone infrastructure.

Great thoughts ... thanks.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
nastebu @ 5/16/2010 9:19:23 PM # Q
It's worth pointing out that cell service is already big business in Africa, and most of the third world. A lot of "under developed" countries never built a reliable landline network, and so investing in cell service is popular as a way to skip right ahead to the 21rst century. It's also the kind of big spending, clear progress project that you can get international aid to build.

Google "Africa cell phones." It's interesting.

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 9:36:14 PM # Q
If we each had a we-com virtual wallet them we could trade more efficiently in and outside the box. For now TIM will get TWOB registered so people can start investing in his endeavor.

Tim you may have to get TWOB registered in North America and the UK.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 9:48:14 PM # Q
nastebu, welcome aboard ... excellent point. 3G coverage may not be too far off. More knowledge in the hand of the people will help find solutions and help network for results.

Thanks.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/17/2010 8:58:03 AM # Q
nastebu, hkklife, DocT, gmayha, Gekko have shared thoughts on Trade With Out Boarders (TWOB). We are waiting on news from DocT regarding the registration of TWOB for trade. i have asked Ryan if we can put the registered TWOB on his site like we did with Palm. The thinking is to encourage people to help DocT get the funding he needs to continue his efforts to show the people of Africa technology and encourage self sustainability via technological trade. To encourage trade is to encourage peace.

Please continue to share your thoughts.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

Same old same old.
Fake Jeff Hawkins @ 5/17/2010 1:35:12 PM # Q
Much like Michael Cane, Gecko is as predictable as the tides. Like a Drama Queen he leaves Palm (don't let the door hit you on the way out, buddy); spends months obsessing over a competitor + manically posting to the new device's forums; buys the new device; then IMMEDIATELY manically posts everywhere that he dislikes the new device and returns to Palm hoping to be welcomed triumphantly like the Prodigal Son.

And repeat...

His fragile ego needs desperately to believe that anyone actually gives a damn what he thinks or what device he uses. Fact is that Gecko needs to get over himself. Seriously.

FJH

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/17/2010 2:56:45 PM # Q
FGH, we have put our differences aside and have chosen to help DocT get the funding he needs to continue his work. TWOB is a vehicle that can help and it is for a good cause. You're welcome too we are trying to keep this an innovative thread focused on helping DocT. It is Gekko's thread and he has been kind to let us park and discuss helping DocT. Let's not have hostility when we are trying to be an example to others of how collaboration and utilizing technology to network can bring peaceful results.

E-T


e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/17/2010 3:05:40 PM # Q
DocT, it would also be good to register TWOB in Africa too. Then we can have three continents putting resources together.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/18/2010 5:51:04 PM # Q
Hi DocT,

Any news?

Where you able to register TWOB?

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/19/2010 3:23:12 PM # Q
Hi DocT,

Can you give me an ETA on TWOB? Will TWOB help you? Once this thread is gone it will disappear into the ibis of threads. You may have to revive it from time to time to keep it current. i am hoping others will help keep this thread going too.

Good luck and wish you much success.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Yo
e_tellurian @ 5/26/2010 10:32:14 PM # Q
Hi DocT,

How is it going? Was TWOB any help? Is TWOB something that will help you raise the capital needed to continue your work?

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

Reply to this comment

Why people have left

jimn367 @ 5/9/2010 4:40:53 PM # Q
People lurked here for a long time, but for the last two years the posts have been dominated by out and out Palm hate and bashing. Engadget has been kinder to Palm. If you try and say anything positive you are immediately attacked, and it got a little tired having the same trash talk go back and forth among three or four people.

PreCentral gets more activity, and has a much more positive attitude towards the platform.

Resurrecting PDABuzz would probably be easier. :/

RE: Why people have left
nastebu @ 5/9/2010 5:28:48 PM # Q
Seeing as the company just failed and had to be bought, it is possible that some of that negativity was warranted.
RE: Why people have left
abosco @ 5/9/2010 5:53:05 PM # Q
And not just failed, but failed multiple times to the tune of M&A, cash infusions, stock dilution, and finally a buyout. The criticism was warranted. You can go enjoy yourself in the oozing love-fest that is Engadget. They fellate Rubenstein any chance they get. And they like Android because it's not mainstream. If Engadget were personified, it'd be a skinny indie dickhead in girls jeans.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
RE: Why people have left
hkklife @ 5/9/2010 6:10:25 PM # Q
...it'd be a skinny indie dickhead in girls jeans...with Elvis Costello glasses, drinking Voss water, & carrying either a MB Pro, a MB Air or a Dell Adamo running something from Google alongside their rooted Nexus One.

P.S. How was your beach trip? Did you see any transplanted yankees meatheads hamming it up on the beach & flexing their tattooed muscles while chasing clueless southern gals who are only after $$$$?

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Why people have left
abosco @ 5/9/2010 9:32:23 PM # M Q
Kris, fortunately not. I must have caught OBX right after college senior week, but right before high school senior week. It was peaceful and unassuming. And since it was supposed to thunderstorm on Saturday, the beach was empty. It ended up being in the high 80's both days and sunny, and we had a fantastic time. So great, in fact, that we booked another weekend trip next month to see if it was just a fluke.
RE: Why people have left
mikecane @ 5/10/2010 8:06:28 AM # Q
The state of PIC is a reflection on the incompetency of Palm to do the things necessary to sustain its leadership position, nothing more or less than that.

We had great hopes for webOS, but they married it to disappointing hardware (wow, am I being kind!). Now we have great hopes for webOS with hardware that *HP* will provide. If they screw that up, it will be the biggest disaster in tech history -- larger than Vista.

RE: Why people have left
gmayhak @ 5/10/2010 8:25:20 AM # Q
Crappy hardware was only part of the problem, it need good PIMs, less synergy and a reason for developers to jump on board (marketing & sales).

Although the buyout may be tied up in the legal system for quite some time.

Gary
Tech Center Labs

RE: Why people have left
jimn367 @ 5/10/2010 11:29:08 AM # Q

"...They fellate Rubenstein any chance they get. And they like Android because it's not mainstream. If Engadget were personified, it'd be a skinny indie dickhead in girls jeans."

Thank You for more than adequately making my point. Maybe the dwindling few of you think this is the way to run a news blog, but the masses that have left do not.

Notice when something new happens there will be a flood of people who check back and maybe make a post. They are summarily attacked and then the thread goes silent except for the few of you insulting each other in the same tired old sarcastic way.

There ARE people still using Palm OS devices out there. This site COULD be a home for that fan base and for support services for a long time. PIC just chooses not to.

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/10/2010 12:37:07 PM # Q
Perhaps we need to ignore those that seek to create dialogue through insults and focus on the innovative side to Palminfocenter.

Offering new concepts and more for PDAs and smartphones to do will create thoughts from people that can think of the future too.

Freedom of speech requires a certain amount of knowledge and not all people have the knowledge to create conversations that project into the future. Such individuals should not be discriminated against rather offered help by demonstrating how positive interaction free from insults can enhance PIC. Perhaps more people will come back to PIC and join PIC that enjoy innovative conversation.

It would be interesting to know why some people find it necessary to insult fellow PIC members. Just does not seem right. What is the solution while still assuring freedom of speech can prevail?

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
nastebu @ 5/10/2010 10:02:08 PM # Q
I'm all in favor of more civility. But blaming the lack of civility here for the decline in posting is like blaming the sinking of the Titanic on the steward's choice of dinner plate pattern. If incivility chased people away from websites the internet would be deserted.

I would imagine that PIC is quieter because Palm is in decline. It will revive as WebOS revives, I expect.

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/11/2010 9:15:53 AM # Q
So the solution would be more civility and more interest in Palm? Which can the individual change?

Are people interested in the future of PDAs and smartphones? Do people want to be part of offering more purpose for mobile phones, PDAs and smartphones?

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
jimn367 @ 5/11/2010 10:35:52 AM # Q
Not wanting to beat this topic, so final post [from me]

"I'm all in favor of more civility. But blaming the lack of civility here for the decline in posting is like blaming the sinking of the Titanic on the steward's choice of dinner plate pattern...."

Not entirely, Precentral is a new start site and posts 4 or 5 stories a day and gets on a normal day 20-50 responses per story. That site is:
1) New, without the long history of PIC
2) Pre/WebOS only
and yet it is handily outperforming PIC. Not that Precentral's numbers are all that spectacular. PIC could also become the home for all those continuing to use Palm devices, and perhaps move that legacy into the future [for cripes sake there are still Commodore 64 hobbyist sites]

And regarding everyone ragging on E-T's Palm 'classic'. Although E-T can get a bit eccentric, there is an underlying idea of merit. There is no reason for POS to be an obsolete OS. Palm TX's still sell like hotcakes on-line, and if I recall the TX was still 17% of Palm's sales when they axed it, even though it had not been updated for 2 years. That 17% was also when the Centro was selling well.

There is a legitimate market that could be made for a decent POS device. The Sony UX-50 is still pretty much a marvel. Imagine if it had a modern browser and decent camera [and a decent battery]? Imagine if it was $179?

I won't defend the Palm 'jewel' :) Maybe a Michael Jorden limited edition...

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/11/2010 11:21:15 AM # Q
Could the Jewel open up a whole new market for people that want exotic metal in their hardware? What about a signature series with titanium and carbon fiber? Much time and resources is invested in webOS. Is the content created and contained with ones device of value? For those whose content is of value may want to encase their content in something like a signature or jewel series.

It was brought to my attention that "classic" is already a term used by others. What could be a replacement? What about legend? What are your thoughts?


Thanks for your thoughts.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
BaalthazaaR @ 5/11/2010 11:23:54 AM # Q
Well Aceeca was supposed to release a new GarnetOS PDA a month ago. Better spec'ed hardware than the TX and OS improvements were mentioned earlier this year, but not a peep out of them since.
RE: Why people have left
BaalthazaaR @ 5/11/2010 11:26:03 AM # Q
P.S. I find it easier to read every other sentence in ET's posts rather than read the entire post. It seems a little less convoluted then.
RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/11/2010 11:44:56 AM # Q
:-(lol)

Thanks for helping. Being understood is important when communicating. i'll try be less "convoluted" or write less. There must be really great writers that can share their thoughts too. Though one does not have to be a great writer to share thoughts we do not want to alienate anyone from sharing their thoughts. With translation services the translation is not always exact, however, good enough to communicate.

Thanks for your thoughts too.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
BaalthazaaR @ 5/11/2010 12:02:47 PM # Q
That last post was actually well composed. Try and stick to that.
RE: Why people have left
mikecane @ 5/11/2010 12:31:09 PM # Q
>>>If incivility chased people away from websites the internet would be deserted.

Hahahahaha.

But his comment about PreCentral echoes what I said: Where the hell were the webOS software reviews here? Nada! Next!

RE: Why people have left
hkklife @ 5/11/2010 12:52:22 PM # Q
That Aceeca PDA32 was scheduled to arrive on or around April 10th. The latest unconfirmed reports are saying that more info is coming in a "few weeks" though some have said it's now delayed until 2011.

It surpasses the TX in several areas while falling short in others.

Compared, to the TX the PDA32 can tout:
-Huge battery (over 2x the capacity of the TX battery)
-Faster/newer Samsung CPU (400mhz vs. 312mhz)
-It also might have more user-accessible RAM (nothing is confirmed yet).
-802.11g wireless (this is a biggie IMHO). Only Palm OS device in existence with "G" support.

However, the TX beats it with:
-Standard wi-fi & Bluetooth (they're optional on the Aceeca)
-Larger LCD (same resolution but more viewable area)
-MUCH better styling/aesthetics
-Slimmer dimensions
-A wider array of aftermaret accessories & peripherals
-TX runs the very widely supported "Palm Inc." version of Garnet 5.4.9. The PDA32 runs standard Garnet by Access which lacks some of the small but useful tweaks Palm made from the T3 onwards. It also will presumably lack the software bundle of the TX (PTunes, VersaMail DTG etc) but I highly doubt that's of any concern to the diehards thatwill be buying one of these devices.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid + Verizon Palm Centro

RE: Why people have left
CADJedi @ 5/11/2010 1:40:59 PM # Q
I can't speak for anyone else, but here is why I don't frequent PalmInfoCenter much anymore.

Any bit of bad news it trumpeted with 10 "I told you so's". Any bit of good news is jumped on by 10 people telling me why it still means that "Palm is going down the drain". Anyone that seems speak out and say that they actually like their Palm device seems to quickly get labeled as a fool or a disturbed "fanboy".

It seems to me that a site with "Palm" in its name that spends the bulk of its time trashing Palm has lost its way.

I have a Palm, I have a two year contract. I only have two options:

A: Spend the next two years being told what a dolt I am for using a Palm Pre and wallowing in how hopeless a situation I am in wishing that I had bought something else. OR...

B. Spend the next two years browsing PreCentral.net where each week they report all kind of cool news about what is happening with the platform, what kind of new apps are available and learning cool new things I can do with my Pre.

Am I still ticked that Palm ditched the Palm Desktop, and gave me weak Task and Memo apps... SURE! but that doesn't mean that I want trash the whole platform 24/7.

my 2 cents!
Eric

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/11/2010 2:14:20 PM # Q
Eric, i trust your 2 cents was a good investment.

There is much energy that one could spend encouraging good interaction free from insults, a good use for free. Perhaps it is the style of communication some people seem to grow more confident the more they can insult a PIC member. The sad truth is that some of the members guilty of such interaction are veterans of PIC and should know better. i do not agree that because some people choose insults over innovative conversation, that this should be the norm nor the the entire Internet is filled with people that lack innovative communications skills filled with insults.

Perhaps people revert to insulting people when they have no more to contribute. This could be caused by a lack of knowledge or fear of the unknown.

There are many members of PIC and they should know they are appreciated and their thoughts of great value. i have been guilty of making some PIC members cry to Ryan over the years and i am not proud of that. Freedom of speech is a valued part of communication and at times comes with unwanted thoughts/speech. However, accepting the rights of all to freedom of speech even when it lacks knowledge via insults is part of such acceptance. There will be those that will always question the right of free speech and some do so by insulting people.

Try to ignore the insults and know your choices are as valued as the next.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
mikecane @ 5/11/2010 3:23:56 PM # Q
>>>but that doesn't mean that I want trash the whole platform 24/7.

Bloody hell, how many times do I have to say I LIKE webOS? I just want better hardware. And that's what I hope HP will give everyone.

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/11/2010 4:43:26 PM # Q
What do you consider to be better hardware? If one likes something do they have good or negative things to say? Is the negative needed for improvement? What about more purpose? What technological offering were the Jetsons missing in their life? How can interactive innovation help people keep their wallet or their digital content from getting lost?

If we all had a we-com virtual wallet perhaps we could get paid for our thoughts too. How can we get people excited about the future too? i'd like to know that my children will not work for free, free does not pay any taxes and creates poverty in environments of trust. Charity is very important though what happens when everything is free? Content must have value too. How many high tech factories are in North America? Who is building our thoughts/ideas/concepts? How is our economy doing? Is everyone getting paid for their time? Should people be paid for their time? Who decides who works for free and who does not?

Just some thoughts to expand upon.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
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RE: Why people have left
BaalthazaaR @ 5/11/2010 4:45:49 PM # Q
hkklife wrote:
-TX runs the very widely supported "Palm Inc." version of Garnet 5.4.9. The PDA32 runs standard Garnet by Access which lacks some of the >

Actually I heard that there were OS improvements as well. Don't know about TPS though

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/11/2010 5:21:50 PM # Q
Mentioned before:

More purpose for mobile phones, PDAs and smartphones.

Here is a hypothetical situation:

A person puts their hardware down on a table the table charges the hardware. The person gets up to leave from the table and the other piece of hardware in their pocket vibrate or beeps. Why did the other hardware vibrate or beep? It was telling you that you left your hardware at the table. Would this help people keep their valued content? People buy hardware to hold their digital content some of that content is valuable and to be reminded that you are about to lose it offers a service that only a secondary piece of hardware can provide.

Just some thoughts to expand upon and share.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
Tuckermaclain @ 5/11/2010 6:47:09 PM # Q
We only bust on Palm because deep down we all love Palm and want it to succeed.
RE: Why people have left
nastebu @ 5/11/2010 11:21:53 PM # Q
e_tellurian wrote:
So the solution would be more civility and more interest in Palm? Which can the individual change?

Darn good point that.

RE: Why people have left
jca666us @ 5/12/2010 4:15:41 AM # M Q
Why would et talk about insults driving ppl. away? What an absurd thought!

People are leaving because the platform is in critical condition - and palm is on life support.

Most people are heading towards iPhone/android devices nowadays.

BTW, Freedom of speech includes thoughtful analysis, insults, arguing, etc.

Et perhaps you need to develop a thicker skin and think twice before posting your incoherent ramblings on the jetsons, jewel encrusted pda's, etc.

RE: Why people have left
DarthRepublican @ 5/12/2010 5:22:49 AM # Q
jimn367 wrote:
Not wanting to beat this topic, so final post [from me]

"I'm all in favor of more civility. But blaming the lack of civility here for the decline in posting is like blaming the sinking of the Titanic on the steward's choice of dinner plate pattern...."

Not entirely, Precentral is a new start site and posts 4 or 5 stories a day and gets on a normal day 20-50 responses per story. That site is:
1) New, without the long history of PIC
2) Pre/WebOS only
and yet it is handily outperforming PIC. Not that Precentral's numbers are all that spectacular. PIC could also become the home for all those continuing to use Palm devices, and perhaps move that legacy into the future [for cripes sake there are still Commodore 64 hobbyist sites]


Actually Precentral is a spin-off of Treocentral which itself was a spin-off of Visorcentral; so while it may be technically "new" it still has a long history -- almost as long as PIC. More importantly Precentral has large, thriving user forums which help feed the discussion on the front page stories. That is PIC's biggest problem these days -- it allowed its user forums to wither and it has not been able to revive them despite its big push last fall.

And regarding everyone ragging on E-T's Palm 'classic'. Although E-T can get a bit eccentric, there is an underlying idea of merit. There is no reason for POS to be an obsolete OS. Palm TX's still sell like hotcakes on-line, and if I recall the TX was still 17% of Palm's sales when they axed it, even though it had not been updated for 2 years. That 17% was also when the Centro was selling well.

There is a legitimate market that could be made for a decent POS device. The Sony UX-50 is still pretty much a marvel. Imagine if it had a modern browser and decent camera [and a decent battery]? Imagine if it was $179?

I won't defend the Palm 'jewel' :) Maybe a Michael Jorden limited edition...


You do have to keep in mind that before it was bought by HP, Palm was and still is on a very limited budget and probably couldn't afford to create a new non-connected PDA -- let alone one running on an OS that they had long ago abandoned and which they don't really own -- if they wanted to. I really don't see much market for a modern PalmOS device outside of the $99 wrapped in blister packaging organizer market. Now an iPod Touch or iPad competitor -- a device which isn't really a PDA but can be used as a PDA with the right software -- is a more realistic niche. And it's one that Palm should go after but probably won't be able to go after until the HP deal goes through.

WebOS phones can still run PalmOS apps under Classic which while still rough around the edges works well for most apps. So it's not like Palm totally abandoned PalmOS. Now if Palm continues to support Classic and allows it to grow, the market for new PalmOS PDAs could become a lot smaller. Ironically Palm could go in one of two opposite directions with Classic and be successful.

Classic could become more of a stand alone platform which is less dependent on webOS and its underlying architecture which would allow MotionApps to speed up its development and bug-squashing. Or Classic could become even more integrated into webOS to the point where PalmOS apps appear in the webOS, run without a lengthy wait for Classic to load, and can exchange data with webOS apps through cut and paste. This latter option would probably require buying MotionApps or cutting a deal similar to the one Palm used to have with Dataviz to bundle Classic with every webOS phone, tablet, smart fridge, etc. and is pretty unlikely. But the bottom line is that when you can run most of the 30,000+ PalmOS apps with little or no difficulty, the "you don't have any apps" argument starts to ring hollow.

In the past Palm might have been afraid that if Classic were too good, it would strangle webOS app development in its crib. But now webOS app development is growing steadily and Palm has been adding new APIs to bring webOS to parity with other phone OS capabilities. Palm can point to their corporate masters at HP when developers ask "how do we know you'll be around in a year?" So hopefully these fears will become a thing of the past and Palm will be able to afford to let Classic mature.
Palm Apologist
Shouting down the PIC Faithful Since 2009
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/12/2010 1:31:11 PM # Q
"Why would et talk about insults driving ppl. away? What an absurd thought!" - jca666us

Some people may not have the patience to interact on a forum where people insult one another. Generally people may like happy conversation or conversation where there is some humor and reality. Think about being around people and one person starts insulting people does this make you comfortable and want to engage? Or uncomfortable? Is a hostile environment pleasant?

Do most people want to interact in a hostile or peaceful environments?

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
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RE: Why people have left
jca666us @ 5/12/2010 3:57:34 PM # M Q
ET,

Listening to your insane ramblings enough would generate immense hostility.

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/12/2010 4:21:31 PM # Q
:-(lol)

Our planet is filled with immense resources such as anger management. Does the hostility reside within the individual? You can choose to ignore my thoughts or allow my thoughts to bother you. Who is in control the person whose writing is not understood or the person that does not understand?

Freedom of speech offers the right to ask questions i am sure such rights still exist. Will our right continue to exist as long as we utilize them?

E-T


e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
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RE: Why people have left
jca666us @ 5/12/2010 6:26:04 PM # M Q
et, could your barrage of inane postings be a sign of your own passive aggressive behavior?
RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/12/2010 7:24:48 PM # Q
Well war is a consequence and it brings out the worst in people. North America has been at war since 2001. 2011 is the end of the war perhaps i will get better and will not be as "passive aggressive". Though one does have the right to defend themselves from aggression.

What do you think about Afghanistan and Iraq building a solar industry to offer something better to do than war? Afghanistan has companies that understand solar technology http://www.afghansolar.com/home.html

E-T


e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
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RE: Why people have left
richf @ 5/13/2010 6:17:27 AM # Q
Here's my take on this. It's probably worth less than 2 cents but never the less. I used to live here just to see what I could learn about my current device. Back in the old days I would get a new Palm about every six months or sooner. I just was reminded of one of my favorites that had slipped my mind until I read a post on Palm Addict. It was the Tungsten C. Loved that little critter because it had a keyboard. It seemed that Palm put excitement in my life on a short regular basis and I was involved in a revolution of the digital age. You guys made me find new things I could do with this new critter and I was surely involved. Not at all sure where this C fits in in my timeline of Palms but I'll figure it out. As of late Palm is dead in the water. I got a Treo 650 and used for 2 years. Upgraded to Treo 700P and used that for 3 years. Still nothing that excited me about a new Palm device. Then came the WebOS thingy. Not at all interested in putting my personal info on the cloud. I've just recently come back here when I heard HP was going to rescue Palm. Bottom line...Palm lost its way and I was not interested.
I am currently checking in a lot more frequently as I am hoping and praying HP will lead Palm back to the exciting period of yesteryear, as they always said in the cowboy movies.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/13/2010 9:48:57 PM # Q
"I've just recently come back here when I heard HP was going to rescue Palm. Bottom line...Palm lost its way and I was not interested." - richf

There is a win win here. HP wanted Palm and Palm wanted HP hence a relationship was born. Palm brings to the table handheld specialization. The relationship brings together two pioneers of handheld development. The best of the past, present and future. It should be a very exciting chapter in the saga of Palm. Now when people compare Palm to others in scale they will be comparing like entities instead of apples and oranges.

Thanks for your thoughts.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
jca666us @ 5/14/2010 3:06:48 AM # M Q
Et,

Hp/palm is a win win only if they avoid their past mistakes and palm can generate a profit selling webos devices.

1 failure + 1 failure does not equal success.

RE: Why people have left
richf @ 5/14/2010 6:07:57 AM # Q
Here's a trip back in time. I don't agree with every word of every sentence but I did enjoy it for a few minutes. More device articles will bring back the faithful. After a while it will sro. Enjoy...http://www.palm247.com/
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/14/2010 7:41:25 AM # Q
"Hp/palm is a win win only if they avoid their past mistakes and palm can generate a profit selling webos devices.

1 failure + 1 failure does not equal success." - jca666u

Since its inception Palm has set the bar or innovative handheld offerings. They are the standard that all aspire to. With a larger budget they will have the ability to create new offerings that continue to meet or exceed expectation.

Perhaps a Signature Series or Jewel will be the differentiator that continues to set Palm apart from the rest. They will continue to set a standard that helps to drive the handheld industry as only a pioneer can do.

When the HP 200 LX was around its rivals were Sharp and Casio as i recall. Perhaps this rivalry will return to continue to push the envelope of handheld innovation. Though the 200 LX was a dos based palm top computer some of the rivals were more digital organizers.

With continued support HP/Palm will become a successful partnership of innovative offerings with a strong past, present and future in palm innovation.

E-T


e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
WiFi & BT? No strings attached
http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

RE: Why people have left
nastebu @ 5/15/2010 3:06:47 AM # Q
e_tellurian wrote:
Perhaps a Signature Series or Jewel will be the differentiator that continues to set Palm apart from the rest. They will continue to set a standard that helps to drive the handheld industry as only a pioneer can do.

Palm/HP absolutely needs to recapture a share of the high end of the market. However they do it, and good materials is certainly part of that, WebOS can't survive by bottom feeding. I was stunned at how quickly the Pre sank in price. That cannot have been the strategy of the Pixi would never have been conceived. They must have thought they could keep the Pre about the same price as the iPhone.

It's one of those things Apple does that bears emulating--keep their prices predictable and high.

RE: Why people have left
e_tellurian @ 5/15/2010 8:13:24 AM # Q
Palm has a unique position in the market in that they specialize in handheld technology. Others could generate revenue from other sources. Now that Palm is working with HP they have a larger budget to work with and this will enable Palm to continue what they are good at. HP also has experience in palm computing which will add more content to handheld innovation. The collaboration of the two pioneers in handheld technology has tremendous potential.

It will be more expensive to make handheld technology with exotic material and metal, however, they will appeal to a new market that is seeking this kind of quality. WebOS hardware made in materials of value only expresses how valuable the webOS is and the content it contains and processes. People that value their content will appreciate the ability of a Jewel or Signature to enable a warning if the individual is in danger of losing their valued content and Palm/HP. Some people spend years developing content and to lose it is a concern. While reworking the hardware one could also make it water proof and shock proof.

It should be an exciting time.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
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Reply to this comment

Ryan

e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 4:05:30 PM # Q
When i click on the Sony Ericsson Experia add it does not open.

E-T
e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
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RE: Ryan
e_tellurian @ 5/16/2010 4:11:15 PM # Q
Here is the respond when i click on the add:

The browser could not find the host server for the provided address.

* Did you make a mistake when typing the domain? (e.g. "ww.mozilla.org" instead of "www.mozilla.org")
* Are you certain this domain address exists? Its registration may have expired.
* Are you unable to browse other sites? Check your network connection and DNS server settings.
* Is your computer or network protected by a firewall or proxy? Incorrect settings can interfere with Web browsing.

i can open the others.

E-T




e-tellurian

Completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution
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http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|

Reply to this comment

Webos on notebook

richf @ 5/18/2010 6:17:27 AM # Q
Here's a nifty little trick. Check out PalmAddicts. Drill down to the article itself. No way to provide direct link. I couldn't even get the PreCentral link to work. Well anyhow here it is...http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/. Is anyone else impressed? OK don't even say it small minds... I know all of you are waiting for the webos tablet. Here is the proof of concept.
Have a nice day!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->Pilot Pro->IIIe->IIIc->M500->M505->M515->TC->T3->T5->Treo 650P->Treo 700P->Droid
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