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    Comments on: Rumor: palmOne Working on Palm OS 6 Upgradeupdated New information received by PalmInfocenter indicates that palmOne is currently testing a Palm OS 6 upgrade for select current palmOne handhelds. Devices with Flashable ROM with enough room to spare to fit the new OS, should be able to be upgraded.
Detailed Comment View (81 Total Comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  Price???Serotta @ 1/27/2004 11:19:01 AM #
Is this a free upgrade? If not any idea how much?
 RE: Price???
Highly doubtful it will be a free upgrade.
Was upgrading from Windows 95 to 98 free? 98 to ME? ....you get the idea. RE: Price???
If it weren't going to be free, I would think it would have information available at the PalmOne store and not the support website. But that's just common sense (If they'll make sense is a better question).
RE: Price???
<
But then you jump to the conclusion that they are ready to release the update. Just because the OS has released doesn't mean that they have an upgrade version ready to release. Of course, it would make sense that they DIDN'T have it on their website until they were close to having it finished (what better way to keep all those annoying 'is it ready yet' emails from coming in). RE: Price???JonathanChoo @ 1/29/2004 1:54:48 PM #
IF they release an upgrade I will pay for it rather than buying a new PDA. The T3 is perfect for me (for now) only need OS6 to power it.
-- Generic Casio > Psion 5> Palm Vx > m505 > Sony N770C > T625C > NR70V > Toshiba e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 StarTac > Ericsson T28m > 39m > T68m > T610 RE: Price???
It makes sense that a release date will be on the site, and that when it's available for order and/or shipping, it will show up at the store.
Since I don't do any wireless with my T3 except BT, the update doesn't appear to hold much for me. EXCEPT- the protected memory. Maybe I'll get fewer Fatal Exceptions requiring a reset. A poorly written app, or one that I didn't realize was too old for 5.1, won't take the whole OS with it. (This is a great feature in OS X for the Mac. XP has it, too?) This alone may be worth the price of admission. But I'd wait until I see what apps break, and how soon the authors/developersdevelopersdevelopers catch up. No doubt 6.0 will be available with the T4. PalmOne Won't Confirm ItPlasticMan @ 1/30/2004 11:04:25 AM #
PalmOne denies it all, including that any worker of theirs would have said this.
http://www.brighthand.com/article/palmOne_Refuses_to_Confirm_OS_6_Upgrade?site=Palm 
RE: This is it.......
I would be happy if OS6 just took the blue circless from beneath the system icons.
<>< RE: This is it.......
Woo Hoo! Finally a step forward in right direction from PalmOne. Let's home these are not just unsubstantiated rumors and/or vaporware announcements like we've seen & heard so much of lately (Fossil, Wi-Fi SD etc).
I'll buy!
If this ends up being the case, I'll buy it. One thing is certain - it will cost less than buying a new handheld. The only question for me will be whether I'll be willing to wait for its release, since I don't expect Palm to shoot itself in the foot by releasing it simultaneously with OS6 models.
Moderator, Daily Gadget http://www.dailygadget.com RE: I'll buy!JonAcheson @ 1/28/2004 3:45:03 PM #
Well, if their OS 6 devices are more powerful than the OS 5 devices, and they stop selling the OS 5 devices when the OS 6 devices hit the market, I don't see how this shoots them in the foot.
It's more "Don't alienate your support base." Jon Acheson
T|T4 with OS 6, the first OS 6 release
I guess if Palm is planning an OS update for the T|T 3, they'll have to offer the brand new T3's with the OS 6 update included. So then, it'll become the T|T 4 ??? Maybe put a couple of improvement in it ?? (battery life ? as the T1 to T2 release )
This could put a lot of pressure on Sony with its new, not even released, Clie TH55. Interesting, very interesting - Solo RE: T|T4 with OS 6, the first OS 6 releaseTimothy Rapson @ 1/27/2004 2:15:56 PM #
Sony should be in rather better shape for upgrades than PalmOne as the Clie models typically include more Flash ROM. They need it for the Japanese character set for the Japanese models Clies that own over 50% of the Japanese handheld market.
RE: T|T4 with OS 6, the first OS 6 release
>>Sony should be in rather better shape for upgrades than PalmOne as the Clie models typically include more Flash ROM. They need it for the Japanese character set for the Japanese models Clies that own over 50% of the Japanese handheld market.
In theory they should - except they have a worse track-record for offering upgrades. RE: T|T4 with OS 6, the first OS 6 release
I don't think that recent Sony models have Flashable ROM, except the UX-50.
Handspring Visor Neo --> Sony CLIE PEG-T665C --> palmOne Tungsten T2 RE: T|T4 with OS 6, the first OS 6 release
>>I don't think that recent Sony models have Flashable ROM, except the UX-50.
My NX80 has over 15mb of flash ROM. RE: T|T4 with OS 6, the first OS 6 release
well, you are wrong. all palm os cies have at least 16mb of flash rom. new NX clies have 32MB flash rom. and UX has got 64 mb of flash rom.
some of the TTs has got pathetic 4MB of flash! TT2, TC, T3 has got 16MB RE: T|T4 with OS 6, the first OS 6 releaseJonathanChoo @ 1/29/2004 5:07:42 PM #
16Mb should be enough. They might need to move some 3rd party apps out to RAM. Hopefully Kinoma Player since its useless.
-- Generic Casio > Psion 5> Palm Vx > m505 > Sony N770C > T625C > NR70V > Toshiba e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 StarTac > Ericsson T28m > 39m > T68m > T610
What about OS 5.4 ?
What about the OS 5.4 version? Don't get me wrong, I would much rather have the OS 6 but this seems odd that they would skip 5.4. Going from 5.0 or 5.2 to 5.4 seems much more feasible that going to 6.0.
Thoughts? RE: What about OS 5.4 ?
It looks to me that 5.4 will be for lower end PDAs and smartphones only. To justify an investment for an upgrade , PalmOne would rather provide OS6 instead of OS 5.4 which is only a minor release.
nick RE: What about OS 5.4 ?
palm os 5.4 does not have to many new features. a lot of what is being implemented in it has been implemented by licenses such as Sony because its just an upgrade from 5.3 which was for china and japan
Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
Not so long ago, Tungsten t users were asking for an upgrade to OS5.2.1
Is it even likely that the original Tungsten T will be upgradeable??? or will we have to buy an whole new handheld??? RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
As a fellow T|T owner, I feel ya. I highly doubt that Pa1mOne will create an upgrade path for T|Ts to move to OS6 - I suspect that the 16mb memory limit inherent to the original T|T may have something to do with it. Also, while the T|T has flash ROM, it may not be a large enough heap to deal with OS6. Add in the fact that the T|T uses an OMAP processor (vs. the XScales P1's been using lately)...
---- What do you think, sirs? RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
Plus, the T only has just enough flash ROM to hold OS5, OS6 will be larger, therefore not fit.
RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
Although palm os 6 is probably larger, it was rumoured to be designed to fit in the same space as palm os 5. I don't know if palmsource actually delivered on that. Theoretically it should fit on the flash rom of the T|T, just without all the extra features that require more memory. However, i have low hopes of palm os 6 coming to the T|T, unless someone wants to hack their flash rom and palm os 6 to make it work :).
Palmone originally promised us a os 5.2.x upgrade, and we're still to see that materialize. We have a capable processor too, if palm will ever publish an api for the omap's dsp. Being the first arm palm, you'd think palm would treat us with a little more respect. Unfortunately, the T|T reminds me more of a failed project in progress than an actual finished product. I was devoted to palm before the T|T, however this lack of support has pushed me over the edge. I know i'm ranting here, but if an 18 year old can notice an unfinished product, imagine what a corporate user with no devotion to a product line will think. That is after all the market the T|T was originally targeted at, wasn't it? RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
>>Although palm os 6 is probably larger, it was rumoured to be designed to fit in the same space as palm os 5.
Not a rumour - a statement from PalmSource's Michael Mace: from the article: Now there is no way in hell we can take this to mean that OS 6 - including PACE and OS 5 APIs that will also be part of the newest OS - will fit in its entirety on 8MB flash that most T|Ts have. So im not exactly sure what he was thinking here. Though i doubt that PalmOne will give upgrades to OMAP devices (the T|T, T|2 Zire71, etc), if it did there would have to be some sort of compromise (at least on the small flashROM devices such as the T|T - dont know of the other OMAP device ROM sizes). Maybe they would have to drop PACE for devices with this upgrade? Other OS 6 specific ('advanced') features? Because it is going to be more modular (or so it has been stated by PalmSource) it should be easier for lisesees to make customized version of OS6 for different devices, allowing them to add and drop features/modules/components to fit said device. RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????Fuzzillogic @ 1/27/2004 5:08:54 PM #
I sure hope PalmOne will finally get the point: there are a lot of unhappy T|T owners. The last "patch" costs ~600KB of precious RAM, the digitizer problems (which also affected my T|T), the absent of Photo software, the lack of DSP API's for our OMAPs etc.
They should know that unhappy customers are bad customers. If not PalmOS6 (which might be too bloated for our T|T..) then at least an update to 5.2+. RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
one post that mentions the incorrect rom size is http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14582 . I can't find the original post at the moment though...
Palmone has already stated that they are not planning a os 5.2x upgrade for Tungsten T users. They most likely will not learn from this. The only upgrade path for a T|T user is to buy a new palm, since realistically speaking palm will most likely be unable to fit an upgrade on the US T|T's. RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
Here's an idea: an app that lets us delete / overwrite data in flash rom, allowing us to remove all of the PIM apps that many of us already have replacements for (in ram or card) anyway. Does jackfash allow that? And yes - it would be very dangerous, and users would inevitably mess up thousands of palms with it:)
RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
JackFlash doesn't do this, but it's sister-product JackSprat does it quite well. Although there have been some issues with the latest beta of JackSprat on the T3 (see the PalmOne forums on this board and Brighthand), I think that most people have been successful in removing various apps that they don't want in their flash ROM and then replacing them with those that they do (ie, rip out RealPlayer in favour of AeroPlayer/PTunes, or remove the Calendar app in favour of DateBk5).
RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
Just a rant, but I bought a TT instead of a Sony because of Sony's apparent inability to upgrade the OSs on their PDAs. If Palm doesn't offer an upgrade for the TT, it'll likely be my last Palm. I spent too much money on that thing to buy another one in less than a year.
RE: Will Tungsten T users benefit?????
I have an e-mail from Palm about 6 months ago claiming that an OS 5.2.1 upgrade was in the works for the Tungsten T|T. I seriously doubted it then and I seriously doubt it now.
As far as any upgrade is concerned, I'll believe it when I see it. If either upgrade is ever available, I'll buy it (my wife has my T|T now and I got a T|3 for Christmas).
Probably why SanDisk WiFi card is delayedMediaBaron @ 1/27/2004 12:36:11 PM #
SanDisk probably scrapped their WiFi development software to just use the new OS6. That's why it's being delayed and it'll probably come out around or just after OS6 is released.
RE: Probably why SanDisk WiFi card is delayed
Yeah that makes sense,I've been drooling all over the thought of Wifi SD. Maybe mid-March.
Zodiac2/T616 RE: Probably why SanDisk WiFi card is delayed
it should be much easier as a lot of the changes in os 6 involve new wireless APIs, as well as a more modular aproach with the new APIs in general. i would imagine that will make writting drivers for devices easier.
RE: Wording reminiscent of...PlasticMan @ 1/27/2004 2:15:27 PM #
reminiscent? the palmone dude's comments are cut and pasted from that brighthand article. what's up with that?
--------------------------------------- We're the people we've been waiting for RE: Wording reminiscent of...just_little_me @ 1/27/2004 7:41:16 PM #
It's bogus for sure.
FWIW a friend at PalmOne said that a TC update was in the works, but that it was a 5.x release NOT 6. I tend to believe my friend more than this letter to PIC - but no one else will of course.. :-)
ROM Size
Select models means more than one. I believe these are the ROM sizes of palmOne's OS5 devices:
Tungsten T: 4MB Conclusion: The update could either be for the 8MB devices or for just the 16MB devices. RE: ROM Size
I'm thinking it'll only be on the 16mb devices and will cost around $30 or so:
1. T|C & T|T3 are the priciest of Palm's current offerings (the T|W black sheep aside) and most "fitting" to be upgraded (and have users who care about such things). 2. They are Palm's most powerful handhelds CPU-wise and also the only ones with more than 32mb memory. 3. Most likely to be purchased and deployed in corporate/institution environment. I think that if a T|T4 with OS6 onboard is released, it'll likely be nothing more than a "pre-flashed" T3 w/ improved battery life and possibly 64mb StrataRam or an ATI graphics 2D controller. Going out on a limb, I wouldn't entirely rule out an upgrade to 5.2.x for T|T users, if for no other reason than to remove Graffiti 1 and squash as many bugs as the free ROM space permits. RE: ROM Size
unfortunately PalmOne has already stated that they are not planning to release a 5.2 upgrade several months ago. We were left out to dry :(
RE: ROM Size
Verteron, actually Palm Tungsten|T has 8MB ROM. I know it's been advertised as 4MB, but download a copy of the freeware FileZ and tap on the "Information" button. It will tell you the real size of the ROM.
The memory of your Tungsten|T actually has 8257536 bytes. So, we T|T owners are still fair game... hopefully... RE: ROM Size
actually a correction to that correction, north american models (english only) have 4 mb or rom. Only EFIGS (english,french,italigan,german and spanish) versions of the T|T has 8mb. Even though all palm T|T claim to have 8mb, this has been verified to be a rom "bug" that palmone has yet to fix.
RE: ROM SizeKonstantin @ 1/27/2004 5:26:49 PM #
A little correction to Zire71 status
ROM Size 16MB Flasheable (only EFIGS) But I dont think ne1 is going to make an upgrade for the Zire71's . RE: ROM Size
Fernando, can you verify your claims? I'd like to believe you, but I'm reading it as 8MB of ROM right now on my T|T using FileZ (v5.3.2).
If it is a bug, wouldn't the developers of FileZ already have caught this and made some corrections in the information readout? RE: ROM Size
There is something odd about the way the T|T flash is written that there is a little code at the beginning which says they are 8Mb in size (which Filez and other programs pick up), but the US versions of the T|T only shipped with 4Mb. There are a few discussions on PIC about this, numerous JackFlash test results, and the Palm spec says the same. It seems likely some bright spark realised at a late stage that they could shave production costs by installing a smaller chip in some models. The international versions of the T|T and the T|T2 shipped with 8Mb of flash.
RE: ROM Size
Is the Tungsten E upgradeable? I mean, does it have Flash Rom? I have heard from sources that it does not.
I ran Filez on my T|E and it shows ROM size as 16MB and RAM size as 32MB. What's up with that? A person here posted the E's rom as 8MB. Anyway, is it flashable? RE: ROM Size
The T|E spec sheet states "ROM", compared to the T|T3 and T|C sheets which explicitly state "flash ROM", so I'd guess the T|E ROM is not flashable.
RE: ROM Size
"Fernando, can you verify your claims? I'd like to believe you, but I'm reading it as 8MB of ROM right now on my T|T using FileZ (v5.3.2)."
FileZ is wrong, the US TT has 4MB ROM. Don't know why the developers have not fixed it yet. I found out the hard way after purchasing JackFlash for OS5. RE: ROM Size
Well, thanks for the insight everyone. If T|T really does only have 4MB of ROM, then I guess I won't be able to taste OS6 for a while if this rumor turns out to be true AND if the upgrade needs a minimum of 8MB.
I definitely won't be purchasing the first batch of OS6 PDAs. I'm pretty sure I'll be keeping my T|T until it dies... or I win the lotto. Whichever comes first. RE: ROM SizeKonstantin @ 1/27/2004 11:25:43 PM #
Chill out everybody and let go off those wild dreams. The only candidate to PalmOS 6 will probably be TT3 and thats. Maybe even TC.
RE: ROM SizeGalley_SimRacer @ 1/28/2004 2:10:07 AM #
Do you think they would replace the ROM on Zire 71s with OS6 on them?
-- "Life is what you experience between racing games" Galley
Why palmOne?Captain Hair @ 1/27/2004 3:12:08 PM #
Why would palmOne be doing the upgrade? Shouldn't it be palmSource, the software developers? Just my thoughts...
"We are Borg." RE: Why palmOne?speedracer5 @ 1/27/2004 3:22:01 PM #
PalmSource is responsible for creating OS6. Each handheld maker is responsible for tayloring to their hardware, which in this case includes PalmOne.
RE: Treo 600gfunkmagic @ 1/27/2004 7:47:50 PM #
AFAIK, the Treo600 has a 4 MB Flash Rom? Some one correct me if I'm wrong here. Anyways, I highly doubt there will be a OS 6 update for the Treos anyway considering they not only have to be released by PalmOne, but also must be approved by the carriers as well.
Btw, there is a new software patch for the Sprint Treo600 available on the handpring site if anyone is interested... --------------------
Skepticbmari20007 @ 1/27/2004 3:39:20 PM #
This is a rumor, and I need more proof than this. Don't get excited yet folks... think how easily you could have forged something like this yourselves...
Ed, how credible is the source, and have you been able to get independent confirmation from Palmone support? RE: Skeptic
Ed don't work here anymore.
Scott RE: Skeptic
I'm not completely confident in the source, thought it is from someone who has sent in credible info in the past. Since palmsource themselves have not publicly talked much about OS 6 and its features, it is likely the support person could have "lifted" the info from brighthand.
RE: Skepticbmari20007 @ 1/28/2004 2:18:28 AM #
yeah my fault--realized belatedly that Ed works at Brighthand--freudian slip? I missed the news that he left.
RE: SkepticPalmInsider @ 1/29/2004 2:47:59 AM #
This is a part of mail I got from Palm support asking for upgrade of T3 to OS 6.0.
I think they will not do the upgrade coz. it could take many people upgrading T3 instead of buying T4 (if thats the name). PI *********** If a upgrade is available then you would be able to. We do not know at
Upgrade to current PDA's before new models???
So will we see upgrades to the current models before we see new models with OS 6??? I want a T3 with wifi built in & OS 6.0!!! T4 maybe?
RE: Upgrade to current PDA's before new models???
Built-in WiFi? Oh really? Ok, take your pick (you have to choose one):
- Weight and size of new model doubles that of T3 If you're not willing to choose one or the other, then you're going to have to wait for some pretty drastic advances in battery technology (fuel cell? Far off) and display technology (OLED, sooner than fuel cell). Neither of which will be soon. Think about the big battery gains people get from turning OFF bluetooth on the T3. And bluetooth is MUCH lower power than 802.11b. Also, keep in-mind that embedded WiFi suffers from interference issues from the screen, as well as shielding from the metal case. Last thing we need is to get WiFi only to have people whine about the range. PocketPCs w/ built-in WiFi experience these very issues which people complain about every day (plus being infected with the PocketPC OS and all the problems that brings with it). A much better option would be a portable battery-operated Bluetooth <-> 802.11b gateway device you could keep in your briefcase/pocket. RE: Upgrade to current PDA's before new models???
>>Built-in WiFi? Oh really? Ok, take your pick (you have to choose one):
>>- Weight and size of new model doubles that of T3 I agree in general but you are exagerating the difference here. Wifi as proved (sort of) by SanDisk in now smaller and less power than it used to be. Sychip just anounced a new design that uses even less power. Without the overhead/problems of making wifi work through the SDIO interface, a licensee such as palmOne or Sony could integrate these technologies into the handheld itself MUCH more easily than SanDisk (especially since they can customize the OS on the device itself instead of the massive headache of attempting a generic driver to run on all SDIO capable devices after the fact). In any event, existing wifi technology doesnt mean you need to double the size of a T3 in order to replace the BT with wifi. RE: Upgrade to current PDA's before new models???
Solving the battery/power problem won't solve the range problem though. You should read this:
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/columns/print.php/3288811 In it they talk about the Enfora case (external 802.11b receiver) compared to the internal WiFi of a Tungsten C or iPaq. Specifically: "...the product can get 110 percent more distance than the Tungsten C with its embedded Wi-Fi. Their testing also shows the Portfolio to have a range 80 percent greater than an HP iPaq Pocket PC using a CF Wi-Fi card." and: "The screen [on the PDA] causes noise that interferes with the embedded device ... not being on the internal side gives us better range." RE: Upgrade to current PDA's before new models???
If you're not willing to choose one or the other, then you're going to have to wait for some pretty drastic advances in battery technology (fuel cell? Far off) and display technology (OLED, sooner than fuel cell). Neither of which will be soon.
RE: Upgrade to current PDA's before new models???
PalmOne don't make really Bad devices as Sremick said, so it's too sceptic.
They Must put Wi-Fi, Imageon and larger battery into T4, otherwise they wouldn't release it. Probably it can be a bit bigger than T3, but not much, it's a technological profit - to use same technology line for two models. I wonder, if they use OLED in T4 - that's only 1.5mm thick, so they have free place for additional battery power. Future Online! Sorry for my ENG :( RE: Upgrade to current PDA's before new models???
[i]A much better option would be a portable battery-operated Bluetooth <-> 802.11b gateway device you could keep in your briefcase/pocket.[/i]
My money is on this option. This external device could be the size of a pack of cigs. and could stay in your briefcase, or in your lap (which may also provide a birth control function)...
Help me out here....
I know that this isn't on the topic of the upgrade, but I'm wondering about something with OS6. Why is everyone so on about multitasking? When I (very briefly) tried using an IPaq as my main handheld it drove me nuts having to go through three or four menus just to turn a program off, because "closing" a program in PPC just pushes it into the background, still running. Do we really want this with our Palms? Don't get me wrong, I like being able to listen to music and surf Avantgo on my Zire71 at the same time, but right now it's done simply. Can PalmSource really do full multitasking AND keep a simple OS? I (and most of the Palm owners I know) opt for simple. I love new toys, and I consider myself a power user (I'm a Palm handheld Champion) but I still, in the end, opt for simplicity (which is why I sold the IPaq and kept my Zire71). Can OS6 stay simple?
RE: Help me out here....
Multitasking does not explicitly state, that a application is kept running, when a new application ist started.
If Palm is clever enough, they will keep their autoclose feature and understand "Running in the background" as an option. RE: Help me out here....
Developers could offer Close or Keep Running in Background options under their program's Preferences... that's the way I'd like to see it handled.
I'd also like them to keep the same state feature in the current OS (leave a Memo, go back to Memo Pad and you're in that Memo where you left off). RE: Help me out here....
I suspect/hope that developers will be much more interested in multi-threading than multi-tasking. Multi-tasking is more of a user-level function that should be customizable to the user's preferences.
palmOne to use other OSes?
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/4532.html
Me? I'd like to see a palmOne Pocket PC. I know: Heresy! RE: palmOne to use other OSes?
You must be joking !!!
Anyway, I've seen stranger things around like that lamer who put an peecee m/b in a G5 box.
T3/TC upgrade ?
For all of us T3 and Tc owners drooling over OS6 upgrade possibilities, I ask this; is OS 6 (and the arm native code it ius supposed to be) going to magically use LESS juice than os 5? I've got my T3 running at 150 clock speed (with select apps running at higher speeds) so my battery lasts me all day and I still carry my travel charger around for long Docs2Go/AvantGo + mp3 play. I assume that OS 6 will demand the 400mhz these things can run at, so underclocking to save battery life will not be an option. Anybody have any thoughts on that?
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