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Comments on: CNBC: Palm's Major Credibility Problem

Palm HQ SIgn CNBC tech reporter Jim Goldman published a scathing piece on Palm Inc. late Friday. The article conveys the frustration among some investors and analysts have with Palm's management over ill timed misleading statements and the recent financial warnings. Goldman points to a perceived increasing lack of credibility which has been accentuated by recent disclosures.

Palm's got a credibility problem, and it's the kind of thing that seems so insidious, and so systemic, that it might pose a deep threat to the company's ability to keep going. [...]

If the company knew three weeks ago that Verizon and Sprint were stopping orders, why not just announce it then? Why dribble the news out, and attribute a manufacturing stoppage to the Chinese New Year, which would ultimately not pass the smell test since the work holiday typically only lasts a week and Palm's manufacturing has been suspended for the entire month?

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I agree with this...

Sio @ 2/27/2010 12:58:14 PM # Q
I think it's ridiculous to postulate that either Palm, or Verizon for that matter, knew 3 weeks ago what the actual Palm unit sales would be since the phone had just launched 3 weeks ago on January 25. Perhaps you should lend your crystal ball to these guys to predict the future. You seem to believe that a carrier as large as Verizon with lots of moving parts (multiple stores, thousands of employees in both the consumer and business channels, an online website, etc. - all of which need training, inventory, display materials, etc.) would have been 100% up to speed by the January 25th launch date. So much up to speed, that when the first sales reports came in for the first few days, Verizon management would have told Palm, "I know it's only been a couple of days, Palm, but based on the actual sales we're seeing, we want to cancel all our orders."

Please spend some time in the real world working with these carriers before you start throwing around ridiculous assumptions like this that have a REAL impact on the companies involved. (And NO, I'm not a Verizo

RE: I agree with this...
SeldomVisitor @ 2/27/2010 1:30:55 PM # Q
Uh...Palm said three weeks ago they knew sales weren't enough and canceled production because their US carriers had decided not to order anymore Pres and Pixis.

You understood that, right?


RE: I agree with this...
Sio @ 2/27/2010 2:08:40 PM # Q
Good. If palm said that then there should be no presumed credibility crisis.
RE: I agree with this...
pretastic @ 2/27/2010 2:16:24 PM # Q
Palm knew what its shipments to Verizon were, which is not the same as sales; however, it should have gotten back periodic reports on sell-through. I don't know if that occurs weekly or monthly or what. If someone here has specific knowledge of that, would be interested. It may be that these two did a poor job on their launch and that many of the Verizon reps were not trained or in any way incented to learn the new products. If so, that is a shame, but the companies are apparently addressing the issue now. Anyway, Palm cannot be blamed for not disclosing poor execution of the part of it or Verizon ahead of time. Finally, no one has mentioned the weather factor. Here on the east coast, sales in general have been affected by the record snow storms -- something no one could have anticipated. At this point, I have no way of knowing if this had asignificant impact on Palm sell-through but will be curious to see if sales for February at Verizon come in slower overall. The bottom line... perception can become reality when talking about reputations, but lets not rush to harsh judgements before we have the facts to assure that they are warranted.
RE: I agree with this...
CFreymarc @ 2/27/2010 7:34:24 PM # Q
Palm should seriously consider a re-branding of themselves if it is not on the board already. IMO, the name has a "bridesmaid never a bride" feel to it after the whole market share slid below 10%. New name? "webOS Inc." would be good one to try to jettison the whole legacy they are facing now.
RE: I agree with this...
hkklife @ 2/27/2010 7:49:52 PM # Q
NO! The Pilot-to-PalmPilot-to-Palm transition cost them some momentum in the early days ('96-'98) when they just picking up steam. People STILL refer to many of these things as "PalmPilots"

Then the "Palm-Palm0ne-Palm" thing really slowed them down. Palm squandered 2004 & 2005 with very little product of interest, other than the Treo 650 and TX amidst a horribly drawn-out rebranding period.

ANY kind of name change would have numerous cost consequences, from to large-scale fees for legal/stock maneuverings & relistings down to ordering new pens/letterhead/product packaging etc. There's no need for them to burn through any more cash right now.

The best course of action would be to pick two or three good hardware firms (3 at most; HTC comes immediately to mind as the best initial partner) to partner with as WebOS licensees. Heck, it might even be wise for Palm to start slowly transitioning to a software/services house and put all of their strength behind WebOS development. If Palm offered them very reasonable-pricing licensing agreements AND held the line on lots of lame Sense/Blue UI enhancements that break compatibilityw with existing apps, adding WebOS licensees MIGHT help defray some of the continued WebOS costs and push the hardware envelope. Look

Just look at how the Handspring-Palm-Sony triumverate pushed each other to improve back in '00-'03. When Palm was still trying to peddle antiquated Palm V's and m100's, Sony and Handspring had USB connectivity and expansion capabilities (Springboard & Memory Stick).

Also, reintroducing the proven "Treo" branding again wouldn't be a bad idea for a higher-end prosumer device. And after the Pixi runs its natural course, brand its successor as the "Centro 2" or similar. There remains a considerable amount of brand equity and relative consumer confidence in the "Treo" and "Centro" branding.

Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid

RE: I agree with this...
e_tellurian @ 2/27/2010 8:37:31 PM # M Q
The choice to access ones content on Palms server from a desk top computer will address the sync issues.

E-T

RE: I agree with this...
Gekko @ 2/28/2010 4:44:02 AM # Q

they need a hail mary to save them from the hail mary.

RE: I agree with this...
Gekko @ 2/28/2010 4:58:13 AM # Q
>pretastic @ 2/27/2010 2:16:24 PM # Q
Finally, no one has mentioned the weather factor. Here on the east coast, sales in general have been affected by the record snow storms -- something no one could have anticipated.

wow. you just blamed the weather.

>hkklife @ 2/27/2010 7:49:52 PM
Heck, it might even be wise for Palm to start slowly transitioning to a software/services house and put all of their strength behind WebOS development. If Palm offered them very reasonable-pricing licensing agreements AND held the line on lots of lame Sense/Blue UI enhancements that break compatibility with existing apps, adding WebOS licensees MIGHT help defray some of the continued WebOS costs and push the hardware envelope.

no company in their right mind would pay to license webOS. why? because they can get ANDROID which has 1,000,0000X more critical mass (apps, backing, partners, penetration, etc.) for FREE.

no company in their right mind would buy Palm, Inc. why? because they can get ANDROID which has 1,000,0000X more critical mass (apps, backing, partners, penetration, etc.) for FREE.

RE: I agree with this...
SeldomVisitor @ 2/28/2010 5:40:29 AM # Q
Elsewhere I equated Palm and WebOS to CP/M. Fine OS, totally worthless to a sane corporation.

BTW - after PalmSource was bought for an outrageous $300+ million here's what some "analysts" said about the deal:

== "This was really dumb," said Needham & Co. stock
== analyst Charles Wolf. Access is "paying that kind of
== money for a company with no real profits and one product.
== I'm stunned."

and

== "...Forrester Research analyst Charles Golvin..."
==
== "...Questions about PalmSource revolve around growth
== and future devices," he said. "How much penetration can
== the Palm OS grab in the future?"

Don' t those just ring with familiarity with the current Palm!?

========

Here's a couple links to some PalmOS/WebOS prognostication:

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_P/threadview?m=tm&bn=13738&tid=402452&mid=402457&tof=-1&rt=1&frt=2&off=1

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_P/threadview?bn=13738&tid=408003&mid=408027

RE: I agree with this...
Gekko @ 2/28/2010 5:57:05 AM # Q

"I can't resist telling you a true story from long ago. We owned stock in a large well-run bank that for decades had been statutorily prevented from acquisitions. Eventually, the law was changed and our bank immediately began looking for possible purchases. Its managers fine people and able bankers not unexpectedly began to behave like teenage boys who had just discovered girls.

They soon focused on a much smaller bank, also well-run and having similar financial characteristics in such areas as return on equity, interest margin, loan quality, etc. Our bank sold at a modest price (that's why we had bought into it), hovering near book value and possessing a very low price/earnings ratio. Alongside, though, the small-bank owner was being wooed by other large banks in the state and was holding out for a price close to three times book value. Moreover, he wanted stock, not cash.

Naturally, our fellows caved in and agreed to this value-destroying deal. "We need to show that we are in the hunt. Besides, it's only a small deal," they said, as if only major harm to shareholders would have been a legitimate reason for holding back. Charlie's reaction at the time: "Are we supposed to applaud because the dog that fouls our lawn is a Chihuahua rather than a Saint Bernard?"

The seller of the smaller bank no fool then delivered one final demand in his negotiations. "After the merger," he in effect said, perhaps using words that were phrased more diplomatically than these, "I'm going
to be a large shareholder of your bank, and it will represent a huge portion of my net worth. You have to promise me, therefore, that you'll never again do a deal this dumb."

Yes, the merger went through. The owner of the small bank became richer, we became poorer, and the managers of the big bank newly bigger lived happily ever after." - Warren Buffett

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2009ltr.pdf


RE: I agree with this...
Gekko @ 2/28/2010 7:49:28 AM # Q

this is so good i have to say it again -

they need a hail mary to save them from the hail mary.

Reply to this comment

The Lack of Credibility~W/Palm & Verizon & Sprint~

EPM449 @ 2/28/2010 4:09:44 PM # Q
By Common Knowledge, as Expressed, By The Global Tech, Community~The Palm Pre Was Launched Prematurely on June 6th, 2009 & The Building Blocks to a Successful Palm Pre Product Line~Would Have Been, Having This New Webos1.4, Coming Out on June 6th, of 2009, & or Another Date, as Opposed To This Current Upgrade, Which By All Preliminary Accounts is Fantastic in a Pragmatic Fashion & @ Multiple Levels~on Feb~27th...

This is Where, Corporate & Internal Fear & Apprehension & Pressure & Anxiety~Sway Good Judgement...

This New Virtual Experience, Would Have Been Awesome For The Initial Consumer & The 1.4~Update~Enables The Customer To "Actually" Feel The Acute Responsiveness of the Machine.
It is Quicker~Faster~More on Point With The Assured Commands & The App Launching & Driving Their Internal Content, That is Inclusive, With The Work, They Actually Facilitate & Accomplish & Master For The Customer...in Rapid Fire Succession....

This Current, 1.4 Update, is True & Didligent in its Purpose in Developing This Product Line, of "Internal Function", Over, 150 Million Ludicrous Apps...which Can Always Be Leveraged, Once The "Machine" Becomes Operationally, "Stellar" in Nature.....

This Pre~Cell Phone Now, Has a Certain Snappiness & Executes, with Authority, Which, Brings This "Machine" a Great Deal More, Authenticity, Integrity, in Its Compelling Competency & Maturity & with a Sense of "Internal" Accomplishment & The Integrity of Those Accomplishments, Bleeds Right into The Domain of Positive Self Esteem, in Humanistic, Tech Talk~lol~Regarding The Greater Good, The Development of This Palm Pre & of Course~For Every~One Associated With This Global Project...

It Brings all of Us, a Chance To Bear in Mind a Need For a Complete & Thurough Game Plan, From Hard & Soft Ware Development To Pre~Launch, Then Launching & The Immediate Tech Support & Follow Thru..& @ All Levels of The Bureaucracy From Palm & Sprint & Verizon..

..As We Can See, The Big Three Are Playing Catchup, To Multiple Levels of The Pre~Teen, Anxiety & Latency & The Lack of "Mangaement By Objectives"...That Are Thoroughly Thought Out With The Contractual Agreements Between Palm & all of Their Carriers...

This is Very Shoddy Execution..in Terms of their Over All Business Goals & Objectives, Regarding, Development & Planning, Execution in The Internal Phone Development & in Marketing & Business Development..Arena's....
Palm, Sprint & Verizon, Should Take This in to Consideration, Before They Blunder Their Way Through individual Launches & The Business Develpoment & Marketing Efforts, That Need To Be Synergized For The Greater Good of the Project, Rather Than Splintered & individual & Home Boy Corporate~Wants & Needs...That Fracture, The Very Core of Ones Corporate Existence....
Respectfully Submitted~E. Patrick

RE: The Lack of Credibility~W/Palm & Verizon & Sprint~
SeldomVisitor @ 2/28/2010 5:05:03 PM # Q
Huh?

RE: The Lack of Credibility~W/Palm & Verizon & Sprint~
Gekko @ 2/28/2010 5:09:30 PM # Q

E-T's cellmate at the asylum?


RE: The Lack of Credibility~W/Palm & Verizon & Sprint~
e_tellurian @ 2/28/2010 6:10:32 PM # M Q
:-(lol) thanks for your thoughts. If people did not go out on a limb via innovative interactive offerings you would have less to comment on.

E-T

Reply to this comment

The Lack of Credibility~W/Palm & Verizon & Sprint~

EPM449 @ 3/1/2010 2:05:05 PM # Q
~Just a Moment of Clarity & Credibility~

Since, I Rarely Comment That often on The High Tech Boards~&~
With All Due Respect, To Every~One....
If y'all, Remember, Last Year, on June,12th, 2009,
When Ur T.V.ision Set Switched From Analog to Digital~
My Friend & Client Invented That High Tech Digital Transmission & Transport System~Several Hundred Years Ago...lol...Way~Before it Was Actually Implemented, Last Year...

He Has Numerous High Tech Patents on The Ventura, Internet Highway & I Consider My Self To Be, Very Blessed, To Be in The Company of His Fertile Thought & Immpeccable Imagination, as an Inventor of Some Global Value & Standing with Him~on Sacred Ground~That We Share Two~Gether, on This Planet Earth~
We're Just Trying To Make a Difference & Leave a Few Foot~Prints,
For The Greater Good of Humanity...
Thats Why I Have Learned Over Time to Stay the Course & Trust,
My Educated & Time Tested & Intuitive Process~

Because, I Have Been Very Lucky To Be Associated With Some
Major, Game Changers, Like, One of My Mentors~
Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller..Known as Bucky Fuller & My Friend & Colleague, Phil Jackson, of The LA Lakers..Who Trusts Me, Imperceptably @ Multiple Levels, Regarding My Intuitive Thought Process & Pragmatic Clinical Judgement...Since We Have Worked Together For Years..
Find Them on John Doerr's, Personal Infomation Search~Page~on Google.!!!

So, To Quote an, Actual Rocket~Scientist~K.R. Sridhar~ The Visionary of The "Bloom Energy" Company That Was Featured Recently on
CBS~60 Minutes~& Has Been Funded, To The Tune of About 400 Million Dollars~By Visual Futurist~John Doerr, From The Silicon Valley Venture Cappitalist Firm, of Kleiner Perkins etc....
K.R. Said to Lesley Stahl, of CBS News & 60 Minutes Repoter...
"Its About Seeing The World, as What it Can Be~&~Not What it is"....
I Rest, Comfortably~Some~Where~in~Between....
Be~Well Live~Well
Respectfully Submitted....Easy~E.
aka~E. Patrick

Reply to this comment

Palm shares continue downward spiral

Gekko @ 3/5/2010 5:36:14 AM # Q

Palm shares continue downward spiral
By: The Associated Press | 04 Mar 2010 | 03:03 PM ET

NEW YORK - Investors have been selling shares of Palm Inc. at a rapid pace this year, worried that the company won't be able to turn its business around with new smart phones because of fierce competition from Apple and BlackBerry.

The stock has lost nearly 40 percent of its value so far this year. On Thursday it fell 22 cents, or 3.5 percent, to $6.05 in afternoon trading. Shares of rival Research in Motion Ltd., meanwhile, have risen nearly 4 percent year-to-date.

Palm has been looking to revamp its business with its new Pre and Pixi phones. But it faces tough competition from Apple Inc.'s iPhone, RIM's BlackBerry and Motorola Inc.'s Droid. Last month, Palm said it expects sales this year to be "well below" its earlier outlook of $1.6 billion to $1.8 billion. It also gave a revenue forecast for the fiscal third quarter, which ended in February, that was well short of Wall Street estimates.

Avian Securities analyst Matthew Thornton sees the stock falling as far as $4 in the short term, since not even the stock's cheap valuation is enough reason for investors to dive in.

To make a comeback, Palm will need to improve its marketing efforts and launch strong hardware, according to the analyst.

"Everyone has universally accepted that the software is great," said Thornton in an interview. "(But) the hardware just doesn't stand out."

Coupled with lackluster marketing, the company has fallen behind its competitors. Motorola has done a much better job marketing the Droid, for example.

Thornton rates Palm "Neutral" with a target price of $6.50.

"I think they've got one more shot," he said. "Competition is only getting tougher. One more slip-up in the way of ho-hum hardware design and it's going to be lights out."


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
mikecane @ 3/5/2010 10:13:39 AM # Q
Irony or years-delayed poetic justice?
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/5/2010 10:42:29 AM # M Q
When the stock approaches $2/share, I smell a Nokia buyout. Couldn't you see them plunking down $500M and adding another incompatible OS to their lineup in order to increase their US numbers? I can see their thinking now: "Oh, they've got a good OS, they just need more time and money! There is plenty smartphone marketshare for everyone, we don't need to be first or second!"

This company just won't die. Not as long as there are rich fools with too much optimism.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/5/2010 11:16:11 AM # M Q
:-(lol) nice quote "This company just won't die. Not as long as there are rich fools with too much optimism".

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
jca666us @ 3/6/2010 5:00:29 AM # Q
>When the stock approaches $2/share, I smell a Nokia buyout.

I could see almost anyone (with enough cash) purchasing the company - more for their patent portfolio then anything else.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/6/2010 5:47:36 AM # Q

patents? like what? and why not just use Android for free along with free R&D? why buy spend $1B+ to buy RC Cola when you have to compete with Coke and you can get the Pepsi formula and ingredients for free and all you have to do is bottle and sell it???????? am i making myself clear? does ANYBODY get it?????????????????????? RC Cola???????? Pepsi????????? COKE?????????????? DOES ANYBODY GET IT YET????????????

PALM
Share Price Market Value With 40% Acquisition Premium
$1 $166,666,667 $233,333,334
$2 $333,333,334 $466,666,668
$3 $500,000,000 $700,000,000
$6 $1,000,000,000 $1,400,000,000
$12 $2,000,000,000 $2,800,000,000

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
hkklife @ 3/6/2010 6:21:56 AM # Q
Gekko, only impoverished hillbillies here in da South still drink RC Cola. You should know that! Palm has the still-worthwhile "Palm", "Treo" and "Centro" trademarks. Their patent portfolio is still solid (dating back to the early 90s) and they have carrier relationships in place with the big three (possibly 4 if T-Mob comes onboard in the coming months). That's gotta be worth *something*. How much that's worth is the big question, but there is some value in someone eventually acquiring Palm for pennies on the dollar if EP get desperate.

Totally OT: FWIW, a 20 oz. bottle of RC is still 49 cents at the gas station I frequent near work. Yesterday a 16oz. Coke was 99 cents there. Make of that what you will...
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/6/2010 7:02:48 AM # Q

their brands, patents, and carrier relationships are all tarnished and dated and near worthless and getting more worthless by the day as evidenced by their declining stock price.


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/6/2010 9:03:03 AM # M Q
I don't think their patent portfolio is worth anything. What do they currently collect royalties on? I can't think of anything. If a company buys Palm, it would be to enter the US market with a stronger presence than an upstart. That has Nokia written all over it since they have absolutely zero footing with any of their shitty OS flavors.

My numbers still stand. At $2/share, they'll get bought out by Nokia for $500M. If it hits that level, I'll plunk down change for some stock.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
SeldomVisitor @ 3/6/2010 9:16:55 AM # Q
Yeah, I was gonna ask "What is that oft-repeated 'patent portfolio' getting Palm RIGHT NOW?". I keep on reading about it yet have NEVER read what it is composed of nor who is either licensing it OR who is avoiding it to keep from getting sued.

========

Palm has 240,000,000 shares when the Preferred shares are converted to common.

Thus a $1/share price translates to $240,000,000 ignoring any debt and/or cash Palm has (and forgetting about a "premium" since that IS part of this post's numbers).

Note - very importantly note - however, that Elevation Partners gets ALL their Preferred share cash back BEFORE common shareholders get THEIRS, thus EP gets (I think) about $365,000,000 BEFORE any other common shareholder gets a penny.

That places a floor on what a likely buyout would bring in (since shareholder approval is a major part of buyouts).

I think it is unlikely a buyout would be approved for anything less than the current price and I think a corporate entity would have to be insane to offer anything close or above the current price for Palm.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/6/2010 10:23:33 AM # Q

Nokia doesn't need Palm. Nokia is already here and has been here since way before you were making bagels. Nokia is not going to dump Symbian for webOS and pay $1B+ for the privilege of doing so.


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
jca666us @ 3/6/2010 10:24:09 AM # Q
their brands, patents, and carrier relationships are all tarnished and dated and near worthless and getting more worthless by the day as evidenced by their declining stock price.

worthless brands? I agree 100%
carrier relationships? what carrier relationships :)

Palm likely doesn't have the cash to defend their patents, but they've been around for an awfully long time. Long enough to have put together a decent enough patent portfolio.

That *has* to be worth something.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/6/2010 10:33:02 AM # Q

yes! i'm sure Graffiti 2 is worth BILLIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/6/2010 11:20:58 AM # Q
Nokia doesn't need Palm. Nokia is already here and has been here since way before you were making bagels. Nokia is not going to dump Symbian for webOS and pay $1B+ for the privilege of doing so.

Nokia is giving up on Symbian, haven't you heard? They turned it opensource and now they're pursuing Maemo. The only people that buy Nokia phones are snooty Eurotrash who love their own shit, no matter how bad it stinks.

They have no OS consistency. Therefore, I don't think they would hesitate to throw another one in the mix if they think they could capture some US marketshare with it. They're stupid enough to do it. If you haven't noticed, there is no shortage of companies that have tried to solve all of Palm's problems by throwing money at them. Should I run down the list again?

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/6/2010 11:40:52 AM # Q

i meant Maemo.


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/6/2010 1:32:01 PM # M Q
Why dump anything. If webOS is the future having this OS complimenting none webOS offers people a choice too. If WebOS is the future one may eventually have to pay to access ones content. That service charge will help revenue flow. The service charge is to use a secure server which by volume is cheaper than running ones own server or a good back up option to existing servers at a fraction of the cost.

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/6/2010 1:45:17 PM # M Q
Hardware should have a generous amount of metal. Metal adds quality to any hardware while offering a more peaceful purpose than war. Metal can kill it can also be used to make great technology.

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/6/2010 6:01:54 PM # Q

Gibberish is a generic term in English for talking that sounds like speech, but carries no actual meaning. Speech or writing that is unintelligible, incoherent or meaningless; needlessly obscure.


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/6/2010 7:39:18 PM # M Q
Innovation offers English purpose too.

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/6/2010 8:02:22 PM # M Q
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
jca666us @ 3/7/2010 4:51:42 AM # Q
Hey,

E-T, forget to take your meds?

To respond to Gekko, I doubt their patents are worth *billions*, but someone might pony up a few $$$ for them.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/7/2010 10:11:15 AM # M Q
Eh thanks for your thoughts. They are similar to others.

E-T

hkk
Gekko @ 3/7/2010 11:19:03 AM # Q

hkk - so am i going to hate Android 3.0? i'm looking getting at the HTC Supersonic on Sprint this summer. how is your Droid? grown on you yet?

http://www.product-reviews.net/2010/03/05/htc-supersonic-android-3-0-droid-and-nexus-one-competition/

i'm not optimistic that Sprint gets the iPhone until 2011 or later so i guess i have no choice but to go Android.

Android Pros -
1. seamless bulletproof push Gmail/Contacts/Calendar/Mail GoogleSync.
2. 1GHZ Snapdragon
3. microSD slot
4. removable battery.
5. lots of apps.
6. huge display.
7. very customizable.

iPhone Pros -
1. streaming live Bloomberg Radio capable.
2. more apps and universal standard.
3. ubiquitous and singular accessory/replacement ability. stores everywhere.
4. cleaner/smoother/faster/better GUI and virtual keyboard.
5. impeccable build quality.

PIM Apps - toss up?


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
hkklife @ 3/7/2010 12:18:14 PM # Q
Droid Pros:
-Big, bright high-res screen
-Solid build quality
-Runs Android 2.0.1 (eventually 2.1)
-microSD slot (16GB included) + microUSB port + removable battery
-Wide range of accessories available (Moto & otherwise)
-Good community support due to popularity
-"Google Experience" device w/ no shitty bloatware, UI skins etc.
-3.5mm headphone jack + wi-fi
-Superb free Google Navigation (killer app on Android)
-Mass storage complaint on PC via USB. No shitty proprietary drivers/DRM/file management utilities/iTunes etc to fumble with. Pure drag & drop bliss. You can talk on the phone while copying files to your microSD card. Try that on WebOS!

Droid cons:
-HORRIBLE keyboard. Onscreen keyboard is equally bad, if not worse.
-Lame d-pad (but still better than no d-pad at all)
-Lousy reception/voice quality, ESPECIALLY for a CDMA Motorola device
-Weak battery life
-Poorly designed battery door falls off in your pocket
-Unintuitive method of silencing ringer (Treo slider is still by far the best)
-Touchscreen is slight out of alignment and there is no utility to calibrate it
-Touchscreen accuracy varies wildly. Sometimes it's dead accurate and other times it feels mushy, sluggh and unresponsive
-After just 4 months on the market, the Droid feels like the redheaded stepchild compared to the Nexus One.
-No voice dailing at all over BT. BT support in general is a bit wobbly.


Android Pros (in general):
-Customizable
-Lots of free apps & widgets
-Compelling hardware (Droid, Nexus One, HTC Supersonic etc)
-Wide variety of hardware offerings from many manufacturers
-Realtively speedy performance, especially with the latest hardware (Droid, Nexus One) compared to WebOS.
-The geek platform of the moment/lots of hype, interest & hackery
-Very good (not seamless but close) integration between Google maps/Contacts/search/Gmail etc. I'm not a big Google fan, however.


Android Cons (in general):
-Google has put everyone on the backburner now with the release of the N1.
-Horribly fragmented market in general. Far too many screen sizes/resolutions/hardware specs/OS versions.
-Horrible PIMs, compared to iPhone, WinMob, WebOS & Garnet
-Lack of many "basic" native apps (voice recorder, memos app, today screen etc).
-Over-reliance of widgets
-Does not multitask nearly as capably as WebOS.
-Inconsistent Android experience from one device to another. This is one huge advantage of WebOS & iPhone & even BlackBerry.
-OS in general still seems rushed/half-assed/immature/unpolished
-Google Market is littered with lots of lame apps. Again too much fragmentation makes it a nightmare for devs & users alike: AN app that that works great one one device is horribly broken on a similar spec'd device from another manufacturer.
-Will never match Apple's huge headstart no matter how many $ Google can pour into it


PIM apps? I'd definitely give the nod to iPhone over Android for certain. Garnet still takes the cake over everything else, obviously.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/7/2010 1:38:38 PM # Q

so in so many words, i'm f****d?

thanks for the reply.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
hkklife @ 3/7/2010 2:30:37 PM # Q
Yes, essentially you are.

Gekko, guys like you and I are a dying breed---we want a speedy, intuitive, reliable, no-frills approach that focus primarily on PIMs & e-mail/SMS/phone. We place much less importance placed on social networking/apps/time-wasters etc.

I've fondled the Nexus One and while I love its Android 2.1 tweaks, double RAM, Snapdragon speed and OLED screen, I also like the Droid's higher-resolution, superb video capture and physical keyboard (a bad physical keyboard is still better than a bad onscreen keyboard). Also, keep in mind the Droid has 4x the storage capacity as the N1 out of the box.

There currently is no single "best" Android device, though that HTC Supersonic looks pretty snazzy. I would demand a physical keyboard on an Android device, however. The onscreen keyboard in portrait mode is nigh unusable and in landscape mode it occupies too much of the screen realestate. Droid 2 with an improved keyboard, AMOLED, 1GHZ CPU + 512mb RAM, and Android 3.0 would be a pretty solid device.


Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/7/2010 3:01:28 PM # Q

so what do you think of the iPhone? i personally don't care if it's all walled garden and not very customizable. you can call me "Mr. Default" - ie i don't need to do a lot of tweaking and widgets etc. my main desires are in no specific order -

1. great build quality/materials.
2. great PIM.
3. 3.5"+ display.
4. good keyboard - virtual or physical (no f*****g slider)
5. good browser.
6. EAS sync with Gmail Cloud.
7. FTP App.
8. stream live radio .mms/asx/wma formats (yes i know i beat this one to death).
9. good carrier - ie coverage, reliability, cost, and speed.
10. docs to go or equivalent.
11. decent phone voice quality.
12. ubiquitous easy to find replacement and parts availability - ie phone, chargers, etc.
13. fast, efficient, intuitive, easy to navigate, stable OS and GUI.
14. 3.5" audio/mic jack.
15. reasonable battery life.
16. sleek and relatively light design/form factor.
17. robust cut/copy & paste.
18. GPS.

is this so much to ask for?

so i guess i need an iPhone on Sprint?

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/7/2010 3:05:00 PM # Q

19. great email and texting apps. (i don't give a F about Facebook or Twitter).

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/7/2010 7:39:35 PM # M Q
It's about $130/mo for an unlimited plan for an iPhone on AT&T. Suck it up.
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/7/2010 8:23:29 PM # M Q
What kind of innovative enterprise could we create so more people can afford technology of choice? Emerging economies have caught up when is it our turn to build our economy of choices?

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/8/2010 3:46:30 AM # Q

i didn't get rich by being stupid.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
mikecane @ 3/8/2010 6:02:36 AM # Q
>>>patents? like what? and why not just use Android for free along with free R&D?

Because in two years Google's massive butt-effing of its beta testers will be over and only Google will have Android:

In Two Years, Only Google Will Use Android
http://ebooktest.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/in-two-years-only-google-will-use-android/

Boy Genius Report Misses Entire Point Of Android
http://ebooktest.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/boy-genius-report-misses-entire-point-of-android/

I stand by that.

Archos just had to lower the resolution on its new 7-inch tablet to make it "really" "Android-compatible." That says a lot right there. The open source Android lacks all the Android bits people *really* want -- meaning, all the GOOGLE bits.

And who are you kidding about you being rich? If you were, you wouldn't be squealing over saving a few bucks on Sprint. You'd just mince into an Apple Store and man up with your wallet and take the AT&T service. Period.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
mikecane @ 3/8/2010 6:21:52 AM # Q
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/8/2010 6:52:37 AM # M Q
You never heard of anyone who got rich by not spending money? Just this past week, there was a story of a woman who bought three shares of Abbott Labs in 1935 while she was a secretary there. By her death this past January, she gifted the stock to her college, worth over $7M in ABT.
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
mikecane @ 3/8/2010 9:45:02 AM # Q
>>>You never heard of anyone who got rich by not spending money?

Listen, what Gekko spends in bars in a week would cover the difference in Sprint vs. AT&T if he would man up and sober up.

Put down that stripper, Gekko. Oh, excuse me, *pole artiste*. LMAO!

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/8/2010 10:06:10 AM # M Q
life is a delicate balance. I don't mind spending money when I get value. but just on general principle i'm not going to spend and extra 30%+ for at&t's shittier network.

that old lady got rich partially because she got lucky - through luck she bought a stock in 1935 which was the equivalent of a lottery ticket. hard to replicate. anyway, she lived an austere lifestyle that few would cherish - depriving herself of many things. I believe you have to treat yourself and pick your shots but you better pay cash and stay out of debt and be sure to save/invest a portion of your income regularly. delicate balance because you have to enjoy life too and enjoy some of the fruits of your labor.

and MikeCon - yes i've blown too much money on booze and strippers. not as much as some but more than others. anyway I'm older and wiser and have seen it all now so the expediture frequency has diminished. but you're right - I've had bar bills bigger than the difference. control what you can control - save where you can. good luck to all.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/8/2010 10:34:52 AM # M Q
You live in the Northeast, not backwoods. We have blanket 3G coverage around here. The speed that I get from 3G is faster than when I connect to my company's Wifi network. I think that's worth something.

There are lessons to be learned from that old lady. Invest in companies with a sustainable competitive advantage. Enroll in DRIP. Let the magic of compound interest work. Invest when the price of a security is below its value.

I'm invested in the market right now for one reason - I believe in the resiliency of capitalism. We will look back on 2009-2011 and wonder why we didn't put more into the market during its long march up to new highs.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/8/2010 10:48:28 AM # M Q
When the North American economy is strong again perhaps more will invest in innovation right in the back yard. Democracies can not make the same profit as a none democracy. Democracy is the system of choices and free speech. The freedom of speech offers innovation while other systems offer greater profit those with no innovation live of innovative democratic societies.

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/8/2010 12:36:29 PM # Q

1. but i travel a lot - sometimes to hick towns. i want good coverage everywhere.
2. you overestimate you ability to find undervalued securities. you rarely if ever know something that the market doesn't - hence it's already priced in. even Buffett got beat by the S&P 500 last year by 7%. stick with low cost Index Funds and don't try to beat the market - you can't. the market will soon humble you if it hasn't already.
3. DRIP plans are an accounting and tax nightmare. have fun keeping track of your cost basis - especially 20+ years from now. stick with low cost Index funds and let the fund family keep track of your cost basis for you.
4. if you want to get in shape, listen to people who already are. if you want to get rich, listen to people who already are.

class over. dismissed.


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/8/2010 12:39:42 PM # Q

p.s. for every old lady that got lucky and bought a winning lottery ticket in 1935 there are thousands of people who bought shares that are now worthless. never confuse luck with skill. stick with low cost Index Funds.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/8/2010 6:23:56 PM # Q

i'm really starting to like this Sprint HTC Supersonic supposedly coming before June 2010. while all of you are putzing around on 3G, i'll be flying on 4G -

HTC A9292 (Supersonic) WiMAX 4G 236
Networks:GSM 850/900/1800/1900/WCDMA 2100
CDMA800,CDMA1900
Data:cdmaOne,CDMA2000 1xRTT,CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Rel.0,CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Rev A
Operating System: Google Android 2.1 (Flan)
CPU: Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8650 1 GHZ
Memory Storage:RAM 512 MB/ROM 1 GB
Display:4.3 inch color transflective TFT /Resolution 480 x 800
Audio Output:3.5mm
Vibrating Alert: Supported
Speakerphone: Supported
Positioning Device: Multi touch screen
Interfaces
Expansion Slots: microSD, microSDHC, TransFlash, SDIO
USB:USB 2.0 client, 480Mbit/s
Bluetooth: Supported
Wireless MAN: 802.16e-2005
Built in GPS module: Supported
Complementary GPS Services: Assisted GPS,QuickGPS
Camera: 5 MP/Autofocus_(AF)
Optical;Zoom: 1 x
Built in accelerometer: Supported

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/8/2010 6:26:00 PM # M Q
Innovation offers capital a peaceful place to grow.

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
hkklife @ 3/8/2010 6:39:29 PM # Q
Gekko;

It'd be a far more usable device if it had an angled slide-out keyboard like the HTC Touch Pro/TP2.

I also wouldn't be buzzin' too much over WiMax as they will likely ding you for more $ each month and there's still the gigantic gaps in coverage nationwide. It also might be a battery killer.

That said, this still looks to be THE device to beat this year, at least as far as everything we've heard about so far.

My advice? Stick with your Centro for another 6-10 months and see what the holiday season or early '11 bring. You will likely NOT be happy with the PIM deficiencies of Android.

At least go to some VZW & T-Mobile stores and play with the Droid and the N1 to get the closest comparable experience available currently. Let me know your thoughts on Android 2.01/2.1.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->Verizon Moto Droid

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/8/2010 6:56:28 PM # Q

1. i hate sliders. especially side-slider keyboards.
2. i've heard from two fairly reliable sources that 4G will be included in the $99 Unlimited Everything Plan.
3. 4G is in a lot of metro areas and Sprint is doing a big rollout for 2010. yes - effect on battery life is a big unknown - but i could turn it off/on as needed/desired.
4. i'm due for a Sprint upgrade in June 2010 (i get an upgrade every year - as opposed to every 2 years - since i'm a "Premier" customer - another perk from Sprint - so i'm itching and chomping at the bit).
5. yeah i'll have to check out Android PIM again. only exposure was a quick Sprint Hero fondle. didn't seem too bad at the time.

my dilemma is -

1. Palm - already tried Pre - they failed. done.
2. WM7 - coming too late. don't feel like waiting until late 2010/early 2011. wasnt impressed with what i saw.
3. iPhone - doubtful this is coming to Sprint in 2010. hate AT&T. dont want to wait.
4. Android - only viable option.
5. BB - glorified feature phone with bulletproof email.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/8/2010 7:30:10 PM # M Q
Read the fine print. Sprint's 4G WiMax gives demonstrated speeds of up to 6 mbps. AT&T's 3G is a 3.6 mbps network, and the iPhone 3GS and a few other phones have a 7.2 mbps capability in some towns that offer the increased speed.

Also, I don't understand how you can call AT&T a shitty network while using Sprint. Verizon, okay, I understand that. They have the backwoods hick market absolutely cornered. But Sprint/Nextel?

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/9/2010 4:33:27 AM # Q

PALM INC( PALM :NASDAQ)
5.55
Last Trade -0.16 (-2.8%)

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/palm

Elevations' average cost for its two big investments is around $5.70 a share (It paid $8.50 a share when it bought 27% of the company in 2007, and $2.84 per share in its latest round).

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2009/01/elevations_inve.html


RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/9/2010 4:59:37 AM # Q

so for those keeping score at home, it looks like Elevation owns about 75,000,000 shares at an average cost basis of $5.70.

it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.

where's McNamee?

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
SeldomVisitor @ 3/9/2010 5:17:18 AM # Q
Nah, you're off quite a bit. Here's a more thorough enumeration of Elevation Partners' stake:

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_P/threadview?m=tm&bn=13738&tid=387544&mid=387558&tof=-1&rt=1&frt=2&off=1

Note that even this one is off a bit since EP =did= exercise their "warrants" so their stake is a little higher and their cost is a little lower.

BTW - EP made an SEC filing noting how many shares they have (after Preferred is converted to common).

BTW, part II - EP has many =Preferred= shares. Not only do these convert to common shares when EP wants them to (or bu, like 2012 automatically or something like that), but they are PREFERRED shares meaning they get THEIR cost back BEFORE the common shares get theirs - so EP comes out "even" as long as the buyout cost of Palm (after expenses and debt payoff) exceeds EP's buyin cost. Of course, EP's existing common shares are just like everyone else's so have no special bonus feature. What this all means is that EP theoretically would accept a lower buyout price than Joe Blow Common Shareholder.


Speaking of downward spiraling
SeldomVisitor @ 3/9/2010 11:38:23 AM # Q
The Verizon Palm Pre Plus is now free:

http://www.letstalk.com/palm-pre-plus-verizon-wireless

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
jca666us @ 3/9/2010 1:24:47 PM # M Q
cool - now all some enterprising hacker has to do is wipe the firmware and get iPhone os to run on it - :)
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
BaalthazaaR @ 3/9/2010 1:31:05 PM # Q
Why would anyone want to replace one closed source OS with another?
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/9/2010 6:53:27 PM # Q

Balthazar - so what's open? Android? is that what you're getting?
RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
Gekko @ 3/9/2010 7:00:01 PM # Q

look at this SOB -

http://twitter.com/mikecane

he's lost in cyberspace.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/10/2010 6:25:24 AM # M Q
Twitter reminds me of those weird kids in gradeschool who played D&D and Magic The Gathering. They speak in their own language and they only hang out amongst themselves, almost entirely exclusive of everyday life. Leave them alone, and they won't bother you. Make fun of them, and one will bring a shotgun to high school a few years later.

Twitter is a useless creation. Technology has been used to connect us all and make it easier to learn what people are thinking. What if I am absolutely disgusted with the shallow thoughts that everybody has? Why does everybody need an audience?

Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
mikecane @ 3/10/2010 5:17:02 PM # Q
>>>he's lost in cyberspace.

>>>Twitter is a useless creation.

Just because you two don't have any interests outside of the one-handed kind doesn't mean everyone else is like you two.

And that quote from abosco is hilarious, since the subject here is *me*.

Anyway, I've been busy with the blog. Do you think all the iPad Links come out of thin air? I'm *reading* that stuff every damn day, and more.

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
e_tellurian @ 3/10/2010 6:23:43 PM # M Q
"Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about events. Small minds talk about people" -abosco

Put all those people together in an innovative positive sincere environment and much can be accomplished.

E-T

RE: Palm shares continue downward spiral
abosco @ 3/11/2010 5:57:42 AM # M Q
Blogging must be easy when you pass off rumor as opinion with no fact checking, take full credit when it turns out true, and deflect blame to the "it's just a blog" clause when you're wrong. In other words, a writer's dream.

By the way, it's an Eleanor Roosevelt quote, and I probably stated it incorrectly. Maybe you can tweet it and one of your unemployed followers can look it up?

I was reading an article yesterday regarding the extension of unemployment benefits into two years. One person receiving benefits was quoted as having more time to find relevant work, as well as time to write on his blog. How exciting to know that my generation puts finding a job at the same priority level as broadcasting to faceless people how he just took the greatest nap! Funded by our tax dollars.

This poorly educated entitlement generation of mine very well may be the downfall of American society.

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