Comments on: Tungsten T2 Price Drop, Zire 71 Special

The price on the palmOne Tungsten T2 has been lowered by $50. The Zire 71 has also been reduced with a new $50 mail in rebate.
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Something New ...

Edward Green @ 3/1/2004 10:33:58 AM #
This sugests that we could be seeing replacements for these devices soon. Looking forward to it.

Edward Green
RE: Something New ...
Foo Fighter @ 3/1/2004 11:38:58 AM #
Must be getting close to spring rollout. They're trying to move inventory. This would place new product announcements sometime in early April.

Contributing Editor, Digital Media Thoughts
RE: Something New ...
Foo Fighter @ 3/1/2004 11:41:24 AM #
This probably means the rumored TE2 is for real since it would be priced to replace the existing T2

Contributing Editor,>Digital Media Thoughts

PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!

mikecane @ 3/1/2004 6:23:08 PM #
MS is not asleep at the switch:

Just remember: OS6 has no landscape *built in*.

As well as not having a silly thing like an integrated filesystem.

Cue "Taps."

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
travishill @ 3/1/2004 7:23:29 PM #
The success of a mobile operating system is not simply defined by what is part of the core OS. It is what the actual device in hand is capable of that everyone judges.

Licensees and software have already provided landscape support, I'm sure that will be a standard part of the OS in short order anyway. Not a big concern.

Also, what do you mean by PalmOS 6 not having a file system? Are you saying that Windows Mobile file support is faster than VFS or something? Or are you concerned that licensees will not allow portions of RAM to be used for general file/VFS use- they will allow this, and Sony has already shipped devices that do.

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
timepilot84 @ 3/1/2004 7:43:30 PM #
Wow! Wince crashes faster than ever! I'm impressed! Yeah, not having a file system has really slowed acceptance of Palm. I don't know if those things will ever catch on...

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
hotpaw4 @ 3/1/2004 7:54:48 PM #
someone wrote:
> Just remember: OS6 has no landscape *built in*.
> As well as not having a silly thing like an integrated filesystem.

This is actually an advantage for PalmOS.

These features are trivial for licensees to add in. But by not being required, this allows licensees to build a much wider range of products, some undercutting PPC on price by a factor of over 2X !

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
Gekko @ 3/1/2004 9:57:42 PM #
RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
a3 @ 3/2/2004 8:45:59 AM #

After reading (not thoroughly) the link you posted, it seems to me that the landscape is more of a Licensee upgrade than an OS feature. Anyway, I tend to agree with the ones that consider it an advantage to not have native landscape. After all licensees have been giving it to us so it exists. Why did Sony missed it in their UX series, beats me but Zodiac has it, TT3, TH55 has it and so on.

About the file system, I have been arguing with myself about the real necessity of such feature. I mean there is one thing I love about my Clie: Although I do not know where the files are located, which of them are installed and which are left after I uninstall the app, the device always seems to work. Maybe your concern is more programming oriented but in that case why do we have so much software developed for Palm?
Additionally, probably it's silly to say this but with the windows file system I just need to erase a couple of files to leave my laptop useless.

Current fan of a 320x480 tablet shaped PDA with built in BT+Wifi for less than US$500

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
dq @ 3/2/2004 9:08:44 AM #
Before going to landscape, I think Microsoft should work on supporting higher resolutions in Pocket PC than 240x320.

Is it not interesting that even thought Windows CE supports multiple screen resolutions from the beginning, Palm OS devices have surpassed Pocket PC in screen resolution?

Of course Palm encourages diversity betweem licencees while Microsoft does not.

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
palmhiker @ 3/2/2004 9:35:17 AM #
Maybe by WM2007 they will get alarms to work reliably?

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
mikecane @ 3/2/2004 10:11:47 AM #
And yet they are laughing...

As for the filesystem, when you get up there in the numbers of files you have, it's best to be able to collect things into folders. Have fun trying that!

Although Sony still hasn't provided landscape (grrr!), they *did* get some sense and license McFile to give users *some* sort of filesystem. Zod went them one better, so I have heard.

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
mikecane @ 3/2/2004 10:25:51 AM #
RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
Altema @ 3/2/2004 10:59:06 AM #
Mike, take a look at what they are laughing at. Landscape? Been there, done that. Any POS device manufacturer can include this feature, and the ones that don't want it don't have to deal with the baggage. Regarding multitasking, WM is better at sucking resources up for applications that are doing nothing anyways. Why would you need the full app sitting there, just to remember it's state? Is the app that stupid? The POS6 approach is much more logical and EVERY bit as effective.

I prefer my laughs in person... like when a pal at work boasts that HIS device does landscape, then has to reset to get out again. Or how about when he jumps out of a pim app, then has to do a reset. Oops, he forgot to go back into the pim to save it... LOL! Then we can't ignore so many device that cannot handle more than one button press at a time. ROTFL!! I'll leave the alarms alone, despite it being something that the largest software giant in the world can't figure out.

The really funny one was when I was minding my own business, and a guy (obviously involved in a discussion with someone else on the subject) comes up and challenges me to to sync a 13Mb document with photos. He sends the doc via email, so I save it, send it to DTG and do a sync. About three minutes later, I'm going through the doc on my Palm, reading, looking at the pics, zooming in for details, reading the tables. I check on the other guy 10 minutes later, he's still waiting on ActiveSync. 15 minutes and still waiting. 20 minutes later it's time for lunch... his device locks and he tries again. We go to lunch while he stays behind. Returning from a nice meal, he's no longer waiting for ActiveSync because he has given up. Avoiding eye contact, he mutters something about having problems syncing the doc, then leaves to take a smoke.

Now THAT, is funny.

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
skeezix @ 3/2/2004 11:15:13 AM #
Naturally, folders are just meta data; the whole FAT filesystem is a dinosaur of the past.. ie: Users need organization. Folders aren't it. Categories are one way. ie: "Show me all the files in my Utility category" is the same as directories to most people (see any usability study). Then do cool meta data like multiple categories per file, and hierarchical categories, and let the user define his query criterion as he sees fit.. none of this "open file" showing a list of files in one category, when he could open a list of files by who created it, by date, etc.. all managed with a common UI from the OS, not custom for every app..

So VFS is there; Even the Zodiac has a VFS internal file system if anyone wants it.. but clearly the users want organization.. they don't care about the bits and bytes of it.

BTW, Landscape is not part of the reference architecture, but every licensee has access to it, or can easily built.. if little TapWave can build it into their device, then any big licensee can. Sony just sucks in that regard ;)

But nice troll mike :)


The Shadow knows!

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
sremick @ 3/2/2004 1:25:04 PM #
A PDA is a simplified device for simplified tasks. This is what makes it efficient. Speed matters.

The average PDA user doesn't care about a directory structure. They want to click on Memopad and just see memos. Tasks and just see tasks. Etc. How it happens under the hood doesn't matter. As long as it happens, they're happy. The PalmOS allows this to happen. This is the "My Documents" generation, who don't even know that My Documents is one folder of thousands and can contain things called SUBFOLDERS. They open MS Word and only see Word files (*.DOC). They're happy.

Even many PDA power-users want the same as above, because the PDA is a tool, and it needs to be efficient at what it does.

Only relatively advanced (power) users care about a directory structure. These same people will almost always be buying an expansion card anyway, and store most of their stuff there. Expansion cards support directory structures.

I don't see the problem.

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
mikecane @ 3/2/2004 5:14:46 PM #
Well of course I have to post links like that and gripe myself.

For one, it keeps the rest of you sharp.

For two, you keep me sharp.

I keep forgetting about ActiveStink. Once you've had a *real* syncing program, you think *every* such program works with such finesse and elan.

RE: PalmOS: Prepare to meet thy doom!
Foo Fighter @ 3/3/2004 10:34:08 AM #
Quote: For one, it keeps the rest of you sharp

Doesn't seem to be working. It just incites knee-jerk reactionaries and apologists.

Contributing Editor,>Digital Media Thoughts

$199 Zire 71

Galley_SimRacer @ 3/2/2004 1:17:32 AM #
Wow, at that price, you can afford to buy one for every member of your family! ;-)

"I'm not a cool person in real life, but I play one on the Internet".
RE: $199 Zire 71
Georg @ 3/2/2004 1:26:12 AM #
And fo your girlfriend too....More better price for the Z 71 here:

looking for a industrial stile PalmOS divice

RE: $199 Zire 71
Altema @ 3/2/2004 11:33:01 AM #
Ditto on both (except for the girlfriend part :p)

Everyone in my family has a handheld except the toddler thanks to Overstock. Only problem is that friends think we're rich now...

Stay away from the T2

acm @ 3/2/2004 10:47:40 PM #
I am a very unhappy palm customer. My T2 has that annoying high-pitched hum that I can hear when holding my pda in my lap. They have the nerve to put on their website that this is normal! That alone pisses me off enough to never buy another Palm. Well, that and them firing their testers (and who-knows how many developers) and hiring new ones in India.

It also has a rattling LED light that was fixed in the T3. It sounds like there is a screw loose in the handheld. Also some of the T2s have a horrible blue-tint to them. It took me 3 T2s before I got one that was decent.

I want a refund.

Replacement for T|T2? T|T3

alanh @ 3/3/2004 2:09:24 PM #
I'd be willing to bet that they don't actually replace the T|T2. It would make more sense to just discontinue it and lower the price of the T3 to fill the void. Maybe this means there's a T4 just over the horizon?


Bought Zire 71 from Sears for $118

Timothy Rapson @ 3/4/2004 7:35:18 AM #
Sears was blowing the Zire 71s out Tuesday or Wednesday for $187 less 10% less the $50 rebate. Bottom line price $118. I could not resist.

It is not what I want at all. It hasn't enough memory, the camera is no longer what I need, and most crucially it lacks virtual grafitti. But for $118? I got it.

I am considering seeing what happens and how small it gets if you strip off the silver slider part and just tape over the camera. I feel like Dr. Frankenstein.

Or I might just play with it for a couple of day, get the rebate and Ebay it for $150-175.

Or let my Son use it for games. I know, that toggle directional control is probably terrible for most games. But, who knows it may work well for some. I don't do games myself.

I also picked up a wireless IRDA PalmOne keyboard to match for $49.99 from Amazon. These are a lot cheaper now than similar keyboards were last year. Cool.

I will probably wind up with a TE2 by the end of next month, but if this 71 works out I might just wait until the the Zire 73 (with OS 6) comes down to $118 in 18 months. What a great buyers market the PDA market is becoming.



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