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Comments on: EMEA Q1 Mobile Device Marketshare Report

A new report compiled by research firm Canalys shows that HP has maintained a slight lead over palmOne in the EMEA market for Handhelds and Smartphones. Overall the area saw a healthly 62% increase in mobile device growth over the year.
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HP h6300

Alric @ 4/20/2004 2:38:01 PM #
I have a feeling all hell is going to break lose when HP releases this device. I know it will make me jump ship from Palm to PPC.

Cheers,

http://www.brighthand.com/article/RumorMill_-_Additional_Details_on_the_h6300

RE: HP h6300
a3 @ 4/20/2004 2:49:58 PM #
With all due respect I don't see what is so exciting about it. Sure it will be a phone with wi-fi and Bluetooth but that is about it.

It has no keyboard, an old PPC version (they will release an updated version afterwards... yeah right) and it will only have 64Mb and a 240x320 screen. I'd rather go for the european version of the TH55 and a T616.

____________________________________________________
Current fan of a 320x480 tablet shaped Palm with built in BT+Wifi for less than US$450

RE: HP h6300
cbowers @ 4/20/2004 2:55:33 PM #
I'm somewhat worried along those lines as well. It's very compelling hardware.

The Treo needs to up its specs pronto.

RE: HP h6300
a3 @ 4/20/2004 5:26:43 PM #
Well, the Treo is preparing for a facelift. Check the rumors of the Treo 610 by googlin' it. As a matter of fact it is in Brighthand where they posted comments about the Treo 610 having Bluetooth, 320x320 and more than 16Mb ...

____________________________________________________
Current fan of a 320x480 tablet shaped Palm with built in BT+Wifi for less than US$450
RE: HP h6300
rsc1000 @ 4/20/2004 5:33:28 PM #
Yes - the treo does need to up its specs and it probably will. I am somewhat tempted by this - but the software is where it falls on its ass. I just can't stand using 'phone edition' or ms smartphone (been sampling ms phone offerings since the disgusting, power-chewing audiovox thera). If they overhaul the software/interface then the treo has competiton. I wonder where palmOne is at with meeting treo shipments - have they overcome the supply shortage? Has that affected the numbers here? I am anxious to see whether or not palmOnes upcoming strategy to offer different treos at different price points (the 'good, better, best" models they referred to recently) will give them any serious dent in these market share numbers.

RE: HP h6300
lobotomic @ 4/21/2004 5:20:33 AM #
żJump ship? Come on, that thing WEIGHS 200 GRAMS.

I don't want to walk around all the time carrying in my shirt pocket something that weighs as much as a cup of tea. I don't want to look as a dork talking into a brick-sized contraption either, even more so if it looks horrendously expensive and tempting to friends of other people's goods.

I'd rather carry a PDA whent the need is there, and carry a much smaller, much lighter, lower-functionality smartphone on me all the time. Of course, for this to be useful, data in both of them, as well as in my various desktop computers should be synchronized (easily).


RE: HP h6300
Alric @ 4/21/2004 7:27:35 AM #
I bet the phone + PDA weigh more than 200g. However, I can see how sometimes a small phone would be preferable.

Hey, they are GMS devices you can always swap your card between a smaller phone and the PDA.

Cheers,

RE: HP h6300
Altema @ 4/21/2004 4:30:56 PM #
"I bet the phone + PDA weigh more than 200g. However, I can see how sometimes a small phone would be preferable."

Yeah, most PDA's plus a phone weigh more than the 190g for this device. Of course, your phone stays in your pocket, belt clip, or briefcase so you never have to hold them at the same time. Makes quite a difference when you have to keep it in your hand for a while.

What would concern me is a downgrade in CPU, screen, and software, all in a bulkier package.

sad sad sad

orol @ 4/20/2004 7:28:00 PM #
now as we can see the fight is going to happen between nokia & MS. palmsource is out

RE: sad sad sad
lak @ 4/21/2004 12:43:52 AM #
Don't worry, the nokia statistics is very misleading. Yes, nokia sells tons of symbian phones, but most of them are not in the same class as Treo. For example, 3600 and 6600 are symbian phones, they would show up in the marketshare report. But most people who bought these phones use them as a phone, not as a PDA device. They have a small screen, there is no touch screen (no stylus input) and they only have a keypad (no keyboard). As these phones are much cheaper than "real" smartphone or PDA/phone combo, their sales are naturally much higher and show up as impressive marketshare stats.

RE: sad sad sad
Michael Mace @ 4/21/2004 1:45:06 PM #
LAK wrote:

>most people who bought these phones use them as a phone, not as a PDA device.

Yup. Here's what Canalys itself said:

"While the headline volumes are impressive there can be no doubt that most Symbian-based Nokia smart phones are being bought by individuals simply because they are the latest high-end phones and not specifically for their PIM or advanced data capabilities."

Before I get flamed by the Symban fans, I am not trying to be dismissive of their sales. I'd love to see Palm OS in a bunch of lower-cost phones, and we're working on it. But you should be very careful with how you use any of the industry numbers. A bunch of very different markets are being mashed together in most of the reports you see.

Why does that matter? Well, one reason for keeping track of OS sales is so software developers can measure the number of customers they might be able to sell to. If most of the people getting an OS don't buy it for mobile data, they won't be in the market for software, or at least not for the same software.

I think the third party numbers are fun for keeping score, but you have to dig into them quite a bit to understand what's really happening.

Michael Mace
CCO, PalmSource Inc.

RE: sad sad sad
Alric @ 4/21/2004 3:38:38 PM #
Mike,

Will there be a response from palmsource to the HP h6300. Between the lack of bluetooth in the Treo 600 and the announcement of no Mac support by Palmone I see no reason why not to switch to a device like the h6300.

Thanks,

Alric (Current T|T owner)

RE: sad sad sad
rsc1000 @ 4/21/2004 4:07:58 PM #
>>I see no reason why not to switch to a device like the h6300.

The lack of Mac support is from PalmSource (ie: Mace and co.) - not palmOne. palmOne has said that it will include a Mac syncing solution (probably Mark Space) for future palmOne devices. As for other reasons to stay with the treo (and i would switch in a heartbeat if the alternative was good enough...) - the h6300 is larger, heavier, will cost more, and the interface will probably not be as good (just going on past MS phone attempts here - but it is of course just a guess).

RE: sad sad sad
Alric @ 4/21/2004 4:42:08 PM #
h6300 4.7 x 3.0 x 0.7 inches thick. 190g

Treo 600: 4.41 x 2.36 x 0.87 inches, 178 g

RE: sad sad sad
EdH @ 4/22/2004 8:27:54 AM #
>Will there be a response from palmsource to the HP
>h6300. Between the lack of bluetooth in the Treo 600
>and the announcement of no Mac support by Palmone I >see no reason why not to switch to a device like the >h6300.

No. PalmSource doesn't make devices. It will be up to PalmOne or Sony to make a competing device.

RE: sad sad sad
Alric @ 4/22/2004 10:15:25 AM #
Whomever. Will there be a PalmOS-enabled device? :)

RE: sad sad sad
Michael Mace @ 4/22/2004 1:42:44 PM #
Alric wrote:

>Will there be a response from palmsource to the HP h6300

Sorry, but I can't talk about unannounced products. Wish I could, but it's up to the licensees to discuss.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource Inc.

RE: sad sad sad
Alric @ 4/22/2004 2:37:19 PM #
Thanks Mike!

Statistics and dam*ed lies
;-o @ 5/2/2004 3:43:09 AM #
Before I get flamed by the Symban fans, I am not trying to be dismissive of their sales. I'd love to see Palm OS in a bunch of lower-cost phones, and we're working on it. But you should be very careful with how you use any of the industry numbers. A bunch of very different markets are being mashed together in most of the reports you see.

Why does that matter? Well, one reason for keeping track of OS sales is so software developers can measure the number of customers they might be able to sell to. If most of the people getting an OS don't buy it for mobile data, they won't be in the market for software, or at least not for the same software.

I think the third party numbers are fun for keeping score, but you have to dig into them quite a bit to understand what's really happening.

Michael Mace
CCO, PalmSource Inc.


Michael, since Palm itself is now hiding its sales numbers to prevent detailed analysis of Treo 600 smartphone sales, you shouldn't be complaining about analysis that suggests Palm's current market penetration is less than stellar.

As you know, it's essential for Palm to get the PalmOS into low cost/free phones. If you fail to do this, Palm is dead. It's that simple.

Palm will never again make any significant profits from PDA sales. It's an imploding market and the competition from HP, Sony and Dell is too fierce for Palm to win there.

Palm will never make significant profits from PalmOS sales to PDA makers. PocketPC is whittling away at the PalmOS market share month after month. At this rate, PalmOS will soon be in second place to PPC in terms of market share on new PDAs.

Palm is too small to compete with Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc. in making smartphones.

Reinventing Palm as a Phone OS supplier is the only chance you've got at this point. Isn't 20/20 hindsight fun?

I know you realize this is true, even if your position prevents you from admitting here that Palm has been painted into a corner.


Calling Michael Mace... Come in, Michael
;-o @ 5/3/2004 3:21:22 PM #
Care to comment on the latest stats on PalmOS sales vs. its competiors? (Yes, I know it's Gartner data.)

RE: sad sad sad
Winter_ @ 5/4/2004 3:15:56 AM #
Hey, ask the guy why he's censoring you!
*chuckles*
Michael Mace: putting out the fires with... gasoline!
;-o @ 5/4/2004 4:29:54 AM #
Same reason why he pops up here every couple months to do damage control for Palm. (Are you aware of any other senior executives of a major corporation posting to a fanboy site trying to defend their company's mistakes?

Same reason why he evades any real questions.

Same reason why Judy Bruner left.

Palm is in a death spiral and doesn't look like it has the ability (or assets) to pull out.

It must hurt to see the new Zires being greeted here at Palminfocenter with total indifference. Even the fanboys are "underwhelmed"*.

*If that's a word. I know it's not, 'cause I looked it up. When I was in high school. When I was in high school. She was underwhelmed, if that's a word...

Hey, facey, I still read you
Winter_ @ 5/4/2004 5:36:14 AM #

About the CEO speaking to fanboys: perhaps if he was from , like say, Sony, you would say he's being "close to the public", that "he likes to try first hand the waters", and that "he dares to mix with the trolls"?

However, is he censoring you or not? XD

Re: (Spin) Dr. Mike Mace
;-o @ 5/4/2004 6:00:46 AM #
perhaps if he was from , like say, Sony, you would say BLAH BLAH BLAH

Actually, I'd be wondering why he was wasting time posting on a fanboy site when he should be busy keeping his company afloat.


Dear Lord, please bless the Caneman and Boy Blunder. Please keep them safe from harm.


Will Palm survive? Betting money says "No".
;-(( @ 5/9/2004 4:37:08 AM #
However, is he censoring you or not? XD

Frosty, Palm expects something from PIC for their advertising dollar. The hard-hitting Geraldo Rivera-style (think Al Capone's Vault TV special) journalism I specialize in is not what they want to see here. But facts are facts, and the market has spoken. I predicted the PDA market would shrink and that Palm would gradually be squeezed out by PPC and Palm licencees (what was Palm thinking licensing the PalmOS to Big Bad Sony?) It's already happening. By the end of the year, PPC will have passed Palm in new sales and this will signal the beginning of the end. Palm failed to leverage themselves as the ultimate business tool and lost millions of potential customers to Microsoft as a result.

The "censorship" is now academic at this point.


Freedom of speech, baby. Gotta love it,

"censorship is academic"? XD
Winter_ @ 5/9/2004 7:57:49 AM #
The word is not "academic"; it's spelled "f i c t i o n a l". Or, as "fruit of a deranged imagination", perhaps.

Heh.

So they censor you because you're akin to a war reporter... oh my God. This is so amazing it gets scary.

I don't know now wether I should believe that, as you said on other post, you're a doctor (which would explain so much stupid medicine man junk), or that you have visited too many of them.

How was that? "Physician, heal thyself"? XD

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