MobileInfocenter

Comments on: Analysts Cite Slumping Pre Sales

Palm has received a couple of analyst downgrades today. In new client research reports, two market analysts are getting bearish on Palm citing slumping sales of the Palm Pre and even possible production cuts.

Via Tech Trader Daily, Morgan Joseph analyst Ilya Grozovsky writes in a research note that his checks find Pre sales in July were down to about 100,000 units, from 200,000 in June - and that August is tracking to be even lower than July. He cut his estimate on Pre untis for the August quarter to 350,000 from 400,000, which already was low relative to Street expectations. He also contends that non-Pre shipments in the quarter were lower than expected due to cannibalization by the Pre.

Return to Story - Permalink

Article Comments

 (89 comments)

The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PalmInfocenter is not responsible for them in any way.
Please Login or register here to add your comments.

Start a new Comment Down

palm pre

manny2007 @ 8/13/2009 12:38:05 PM # Q
i think since sales are down they should lift sprints exclusiveness and put it on the different networks that would up sales. I dont think theres enough people willing to switch to sprint and if sprint cant sell enough units it should be a good reason to try the other networks it would only help the palm product,
RE: palm pre
mklein @ 8/18/2009 7:07:47 AM # Q
Agreed. Make the Pre available on other networks and reduce the monthly service charge. All wireless service is grossly overpriced, but with Sprint's spotty coverage there should be an adjustment made to compensate the user.
Reply to this comment

stock doesn't agree with them

neuron @ 8/13/2009 12:39:26 PM # Q
Then why the stock rise 5% today?
RE: stock doesn't agree with them
abosco @ 8/13/2009 3:57:58 PM # Q
Because the stock market today is based on short-term trades, not long-term prospects. It is a meaningless barometer of a company's performance in the current financial world. Disregard it.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
Reply to this comment

Hrm

Xtremegene @ 8/13/2009 12:42:34 PM # Q
Moar apps please is all I have to say about slumping demand. ;P At least for my own personal demand on keeping it...

I highly doubt Palm can just go and cancel the exclusivity agreement unilaterally.

Oh, and I guess better advertising would be nice too, though I don't pay attention to much mass media to notice anyways.
Gonna actually try Palm OS now, but on the Nokia N800 via Garnet VM! ---> Never mind that, just using the 755p instead.

Reply to this comment

Completely Unsurprising

hkklife @ 8/13/2009 12:42:45 PM # Q
Slumping Pre sales? Color me unsurprised. Here's a handful of reasons from three different points of view:

The Palm OS loyalist/PIC faithful perspective:

1. Feeble PIM apps and reduced usability in "real life" usability in comparison to the old Palm OS devices. FAR too much emphasis on silly fluff in WebOS instead of building a user-friendly, business-class device that can also do media and web 2.0 stuff. Palm has strayed too far from their core strengths of Palm OS: PIM & efficient data input. A front-facing QWERTY + touchscreen + hard buttons is a combination that CANNOT be beat for data input and retrieval efficiency. In additioin, the flexibility, huge number of 3rd party apps is nowhere to be seen for WebOS nor and it's unlikely to ever appear.

2. Pre is a poorer value proposition in so many ways in comparison to say, a "free" Centro (no memory card slot, no voice recorder, no voice dialing, no video recorder, no hard app buttons, no IR, DTG full version not included, no stylus)

3. Many missing or half-baked features at launch as well as presently (video recording, DUN tethering, voice dialing, voice memo, etc--see above)

4. Huge gap between January CES announcement and June retail availability. The 5-month delay caused many to jump ship and go elsewhere.

5. Nearly of the "old faithful" Palm OS developers left for the greener iPhone/iPod Touch pastures ages ago.

5. Numerous hardware shortcomings: Too little RAM, no memory expansion, weak battery capacity, fragile/spotty build quality, no soft-touch exterior coating, etc

6. Classic emulator should have been announced at CES (or immediately afterwards), if only to generate good buzz from the Palm OS faithful.

7. The cannibalization comments above don't surprise me a bit. Palm should have either EOL'd the Centro earlier this year OR refreshed it again and continued to sell it alongside the Pre through year-end until Eos/Pixie is ready.
I also would have expected more of a halo effect from the Pre on the Treo Pro.

The "average Joe" consumers:

1. Not offering "paranoid" users an option for some kind of desktop synchronization hurts, especially with Apple adding a lot of Pre-like features to iTunes 9

2. Not offering an opt-out and/or full disclosure of Palm's Orwellian data monitoring of user habits (see yesterday's story).

3. Palm's half-baked iTunes "solution". They should have either worked out a PROPER solution with Apple prior to launch or just left it at USB drag'n drop and been done with it.

4. The Pre's poor value (both actual and perceived) vs. a $99 iPhone, a $99 BB Storm or a $199 iPhine 3GS (etc etc). The mail-in rebate foolishness from Sprint and limited Pre stocks at launch from BB and others only made matters worse

5. The rotten ad campaign from Palm and too little promotion from Sprint. 'Nuff said.

6. Sprint, Sprint, Sprint. At the very least, Palm should only have given Sprint a 90-day exclusive on the device and then had an otherwise identical Verizon Pre out in time to catch the pre-holiday sales. Otherwise, not having a GSM Pre is a fatal blow in so many ways.

7. The Pre launch was basically lost amongst the continued hoopla of Apple's WWDC '09


Misc:

1. The delayed SDK. Also 'nuff said.

2. Palm should have really borrowed another page from Apple's playbook and released a cut-down "Pre Touch" non-phone device (see Creative's recent Zii Egg strategy). This could have let Palm hit the ground running in markets outside the US with *SOMETHING* running WebOS that would not be tied to those troublesome carrier approvals, certifications, and exclusives. It also would have been a gigantic boon to WebOS development if a "Pre Touch" device could have been released earlier this year alongside the SDK in a $200-$300 package in order to give developers a headstart.

If Palm's four-year old + discontinued PDAs are still generating a bit of revenue for them, a modern PDA/PMP/MID with wi-fi instead of WWAN could certainly at least find a certain audience (users in countries where Palm has no carrier partnerships, frugal Mike Cane types etc).

3. The CEO changeover should have occured either earlier or later. Taking place in the immediate aftermath of the biggest launch in Palm's history seems to be an odd time and perhaps a sign of more drastic measures to come (Palm being acquired etc).

4. For one, Palm should have announced a followup product ahead of time and said that the Eos/Pixie is coming soon-ish. Instead of repeating the m500/Osborne effect, I think this would have assured many users that WebOS is not a "one and done" deal and that if the Pre isn't to their liking, a smaller/cheaper GSM device is coming soon.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Completely Unsurprising
mikecane @ 8/13/2009 1:04:43 PM # Q
>>>4. Huge gap between January CES announcement and June retail availability. The 5-month delay caused many to jump ship and go elsewhere.

That didn't hurt iPhone.

RE: Completely Unsurprising
Gekko @ 8/13/2009 2:09:57 PM # Q

hkk -

great analysis.

MikeCon -

>That didn't hurt iPhone.

yes, but the iPhone didn't have to compete with an "iPhone".

RE: Completely Unsurprising
jca666us @ 8/13/2009 3:21:23 PM # M Q
>>>4. Huge gap between January CES announcement and June retail availability.

that also hurt palm because initially the buzz was:
1. that the pre did all these things the iPhone couldn't.

2. The pre was much faster than the iPhone

os 3.x stuck a pin in argument #1

iPhone 3gs decimated argument #2

The only remaining argument - the pre can multitask 3rd party apps. The dearth of said apps weakens that argument.

RE: Completely Unsurprising
Gekko @ 8/13/2009 3:26:28 PM # Q

in practice, the Pre webOS multitasking is dubious at best.
RE: Completely Unsurprising
jca666us @ 8/13/2009 3:58:10 PM # M Q
I thought it was just like juggling balls...Lol!
RE: Completely Unsurprising
mikecane @ 8/13/2009 4:45:46 PM # Q
>>>yes, but the iPhone didn't have to compete with an "iPhone".

Dammit. You're right. Stop doing that.

RE: Completely Unsurprising
freakout @ 8/13/2009 7:01:06 PM # Q
Kris, sometimes I think you've got these posts already written and saved in a folder somewhere, just waiting for the right opportunity to unleash your wrath. :P

Allow me to cherry-pick some of the stuff you wrote for debate. (Also, have I mentioned how agonising it is to not be able to try a Pre for myself lately?)

A front-facing QWERTY + touchscreen + hard buttons is a combination that CANNOT be beat for data input and retrieval efficiency.

Completely agreed - and don't forget a D-pad & stylus too. (I remember being flayed for saying that when the iPhone came out...) I think the Eos/Pixie/whatever may actually turn out to be a better phone than the Pre in that respect.

At the same time, though, Palm has been long overdue for a new phone design. The Treo & Centro had been essentially the same device for four years running, and without any new PDAs to vary their lineup it made the whole company look stagnant. Meanwhile, the sheer weight of iPhone hype had created a brand-new touchscreen design paradigm - the trusty stylus was no longer welcome in the mass market.

While its utility is compromised by it, the Pre's curvy slide-out design is a very welcome breath of fresh air for Palm. Try as I might, I cannot imagine a device that looked like a Treo getting the same reaction from the crowd at CES. And they have tried to bring some of their old mojo into the new generation. The gesture area, for instance - that's a great idea. Your greasy mitts don't always need to be swiping over what you're looking at. Or the wave launcher.

Basically, as much as I love the classic hardware design, it had to go to sleep for awhile. Evidence? Check out the Treo Pro - arguably the sexiest candybar Palm ever made. Seems to have been a bit of a flop (although we can chalk a lot of that up to WinMob).

In additioin, the flexibility, huge number of 3rd party apps is nowhere to be seen for WebOS nor and it's unlikely to ever appear.

I completely disagree here, and I think it's far, far too early to be making such calls in any case. I base this not on my own feelings but on the opinions of others who've worked with webOS and Mojo. That Infoworld review of the SDK sums it up perfectly: yes, it's still an immature platform, but the potential it promises is huge and there's no reason to believe Palm won't keep improving it - they're fighting for survival.

And then there's webos-internals.org, which already offers so many excellent little hacks and mods that are letting users customise the OS how they see fit. heck, you can run proper Linux software on it! It's the geek user's wet dream!

Numerous hardware shortcomings: Too little RAM, no memory expansion, weak battery capacity, fragile/spotty build quality, no soft-touch exterior coating, etc

I'll agree with you on memory expansion and the weak battery. Build quality, well, I'll reserve judgement till I have my own. Soft-touch coating is overrated, IMO - makes it harder to slip in and out of a pocket.

But coming from a GSM Treo/Centro, there's also a number of pluses: 3G, GPS, Wi-Fi, bigger screen, superior processor.

3. Palm's half-baked iTunes "solution". They should have either worked out a PROPER solution with Apple prior to launch or just left it at USB drag'n drop and been done with it.

Oh please. Apple have zero interest in letting anyone else into their exclusive party. At the same time, the iTunes ecosystem is simply too massive for any sane company to ignore. Palm's solution, far from being half-baked, is the best one available. If a user want to use iTunes to manage their media (God help them), they can use iTunes - not PalmTunesSync or whatever other third-party middleman.

It amazes me that you'd really be against this, Kris. While it may cause user uncertainty in the short-term with the a constant back-and-forth update war, in the long view it's a step forward for interoperability. Depending on how all of this plays out with the USB forum, it may even encourage other manufacturers to pull the same trick. The precedent set and wider compatibility that would result can only be of benefit to all of us, whether or not we use iTunes.

The only loser is Apple, for whom I find it difficult to weep when they are rolling around naked in a pile of money. (And even then, it's not much of a loss, because they'll have more customers shopping in their online store and using their software and more opportunities to convince people to buy Apple hardware.)
Tim
Apologies in advance for all emoticons, LOLs, ROFLs, and any other form of depressingly annoying Internet shorthand that appears in my posts.
Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Centro

RE: Completely Unsurprising
hkklife @ 8/13/2009 8:37:11 PM # Q
Tim;

#1 iTunes ain't important to ME in the slightest. If Apple issued a press release tomorrow that the iTunes app was being discontinued and they were immediately shuttering the iTunes store, I'd just chuckle to myself and smile at my big ol' rack of CDs that I can rip, rerip, encode, copy and manilulate the bits however as I desire. But I do understand that for some silly reason, iTunes is a BIG DEAL to a lot of people. Therefore, I think we are in for a lot of back & forth between Palm & Apple and that will eventually lead to a lot of grief for iTunes-luvin' Pre owners.

#2 Oh, and of course I didn't forget d-pad + stylus. In my mind, if you have a hard button, then there's only naturally gonna be a d-pad alongside 'em.

Ditto to the Pixie/Eos being a potentially better device. However, if the rumors are correct, I'm a bit worried about not only its keyboard size but its screen size, the oddball resolution (not 320x480) breaking compatibility with Pre apps, and the feeble amount of fixed internal storage.

#3 I think the Treo Pro should have been a bigger hit, aye. IMO that particulawr device would have benefitted from:

1. Having a very slightly larger 'smile' keyboard with Treo 680/750 style keys
2. Running a different OS (WM 6.5 or even Garnet)
3. Being available subsidized & officially on AT&T upon launch last year. Also, the huge delay in getting the CDMA version out really hurt it and it's been in the Pre's shadow throughout '09.

P.S. I recently took a tour through BB Mobile and a mall wireless store and determined that every smartphone currently available in the USA is shit for one reason or another. All of the mobile OSes still suck, most smartphones have compromised hardware design in one way or another and the handful of units with solid hardware is usually mated to WinMob. And of course carrier availability/exclusivity is always a huge bummer. We *NEED* ALP in the worst way possible, Lefty! Hurry!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Completely Unsurprising
joad @ 8/13/2009 9:02:09 PM # Q
hkklife: But, but... the Pre has the "cloud" !!! Sooo impressive!

I agree with basically everything you said. In fact, I'd say that Palm screwed themselves again by trying to "me too" the iPhone. The iPhone has some nice features, BUT - its popularity is based upon the Apple Cult. No matter how much Palm chases Apple - they're still going to come off as a pale wannabe. The Pre just looks and functions like a knockoff iPhone with a keyboard and a load of lag. No expandable card, cheese-cutter corners, gummy-bear keys, yuck! The Pre actually makes the lousy Blackberry attractive - at least BB has some great enterprise class thinking behind the OS, even though the hardware sucks beyond logic.

Palm went further in committing hari-kari by actively screwing the customers that LIKED the PalmOS they've invested in since as early as 1996. Say what you want about the lag, the lack of "multitasking" and pretty graphics and fonts, but my damn Treo 755 can run circles around the iPhone for functionality, speed of entry, and comfort in the hand. Since the Pre is nearly an iPhone clone - then it is reasonable to expect that the 755 exceeds it, also. Tethering? Expandable memory and local backup and desktop sync? NOT.

Palm could have slapped a 256MB chip into their Treo line, updated the awful ROM image with current versions of DTG and Googlemaps (and add the location API), and I'd have bought one with another 2-year contract. I don't want a gummy Centro, and I certainly don't want a "cloud-only" POS unexpandable stylus-free toy with tiny, sticky keys, and I know I'm not alone. And Wincemob ain't a panacea, either.
Treo 755p FTW!!! (sorry, Preh).

RE: Completely Unsurprising
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 4:31:16 AM # Q
>At the same time, though, Palm has been long overdue for a new phone
>design. The Treo & Centro had been essentially the same device for four
>years running, and without any new PDAs to vary their lineup it made the
>whole company look stagnant.

The company was stagnant.

>Meanwhile, the sheer weight of iPhone hype had created a brand-new
>touchscreen design paradigm - the trusty stylus was no longer welcome in
>the mass market.

If it was just hype, why did Palm hire several ex-Apple people?

>The gesture area, for instance - that's a great idea. Your greasy mitts don't
>always need to be swiping over what you're looking at. Or the wave
>launcher.

It's a great idea - in theory. When you've actually used it, let me know. Not an ideal implementation.

>That Infoworld review of the SDK sums it up perfectly: yes, it's still an
>immature platform, but the potential it promises is huge and there's no
>reason to believe Palm won't keep improving it - they're fighting for survival.

That's also the reason to believe that they won't be able to improve it - they're fighting for survival. They'll be looking to raise another 300 million to keep the doors open soon.

>But coming from a GSM Treo/Centro, there's also a number of pluses: 3G,
>GPS, Wi-Fi, bigger screen, superior processor.

Bigger screen? Wait until you look at it in person - the screen was the most disappointing aspect.

>Oh please. Apple have zero interest in letting anyone else into their
>exclusive party. At the same time, the iTunes ecosystem is simply too
>massive for any sane company to ignore. Palm's solution, far from being
>half-baked, is the best one available.

The best one available? Meaning it's not an ideal solution. Thus, like your brain, half-baked.

>If a user want to use iTunes to manage their media (God help them), they
>can use iTunes - not PalmTunesSync or whatever other third-party
>middleman.

You're like a dog with a bone - give it up already.

RE: Completely Unsurprising
CFreymarc @ 8/14/2009 12:54:20 PM # Q
Does not surprise me. The Palm hardcore ran with it but these wacko Mona Lisa commercials have scared off the mainstream to sustain sales.
RE: Completely Unsurprising
freakout @ 8/14/2009 5:34:59 PM # Q
jca666us: Whatever you wrote, I didn't read it. Because... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKUF9Xa_cQI
RE: Completely Unsurprising
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 7:06:10 PM # Q
@Freak!

You didn't read it because you're an ass?

That's a real shocker!!!

Reply to this comment

Palm up for sale?

mikecane @ 8/13/2009 1:06:33 PM # Q
I'm beginning to wonder if Palm is now a takeover target. For real.

Dell apparently has its own phone thing going now, with Android in China. So that crushes Gekko's hopes and dreams. Ha!

So who would jump Palm's bones?

Bueller? Bueller?

RE: Palm up for sale?
LiveFaith @ 8/13/2009 1:36:44 PM # Q
RE: Palm up for sale?
Gekko @ 8/13/2009 2:25:10 PM # Q

MikeCon - what would make you think that? IMO, Palm's share price is still vastly expensive when compared to its revenue and profits. and frankly, i'm not impressed with the Pre, WebOS, or Palm's management, marketing, and engineering staff either. so what is a fool buying for $2+ BILLION???????
RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/13/2009 4:06:23 PM # Q
Companies are smarter than this. Why would a company like Dell or Acer spend billions buying Palm when they can hop on the Android bandwagon for zero licensing expense?

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G
RE: Palm up for sale?
jca666us @ 8/13/2009 4:55:30 PM # M Q
>yes, but the iPhone didn't have to compete with
>an "iPhone".

The original iPhone was such a move forward - in both hardware and software - compared to anything on the market at that time.

The Pre is more of a move sideways - mojo doesn't appear to be all that (yet) - and webos needs time to mature and be further developed.

The hardware is half-baked. The build quality is mediocre - the cpu and gpu are very good, but 8 gig for a $199 device is laughable.

RE: Palm up for sale?
freakout @ 8/13/2009 5:45:59 PM # Q
bosco:
Why would a company like Dell or Acer spend billions buying Palm when they can hop on the Android bandwagon for zero licensing expense?

IMO, Android is destined to become the Windows Mobile of the future - running on a million different phones, but only a few of them offering the tight integration of hardware and software that can make a device really special.

Mind you, that's not to say that I think a Palm acquisition is likely.

RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/13/2009 9:16:14 PM # M Q
I agree. I think Android, while a cool idea from a development point of view, has largely been overhyped. Open source doesn't seem to be a big deal for consumers, as evidenced by massive iPhone and BB sales. I agree that Android will largely fill the role of WM, being run on a variety of HTC devices that have millions of features and that hardcore users love, but fails to gain real traction with consumers.

Also, I forsee Blackberry's aging OS coming back to bite them in a few years. Call me a fanboy, but I truly believe Apple is in the best position of all companies in the smartphone business.

RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/14/2009 1:18:37 AM # Q
@abosco
I think you are underestimating Android and what can be done to tweak it by the phone manufacturers themselves. But I do think that there will always be space for companies who can innovate with their own OS.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Palm up for sale?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2009 4:02:42 AM # Q
Android is already expanding beyond the phone - I think it's going somewhere good.

RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/14/2009 5:04:06 AM # M Q
But in a few limited ways, the phone manufacturers could modify WM. HTC had their 3D interface, different skins, etc. I think this is as far as most companies will take it.

I understand that you think I'm underestimating Android, but I really think the tech community is overestimating it because of it's infatuation with opensource. In reality, the average consumer doesn't care.

RE: Palm up for sale?
freakout @ 8/14/2009 8:12:15 PM # Q
bosco: I'd say Blackberry's aging OS has already come back to bite them with the Storm and it's only going to get worse from here.

Call me a fanboy...

You're a fanboy. :P

...but I truly believe Apple is in the best position of all companies in the smartphone business.

I don't think anyone could disagree with that. From a mindshare perspective alone their position must be terrifying to competitors, who have all been summarily reduced to being viewed through the prism of "Is it as good as the iPhone?"
Tim
Treo 270 -> Treo 650 -> Treo 680 -> Centro

Please, no replies from jca666us.

RE: Palm up for sale?
Gekko @ 8/14/2009 11:40:53 PM # Q

"Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose." - Bill Gates

"Death can come swiftly to a market leader. By the time you have lost the positive-feedback cycle it's often too late to change what you've been doing, and all of the elements of a negative spiral come into play." - Bill Gates, "The Road Ahead", Chapter 3

"In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone." - Bill Gates

RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/15/2009 2:26:00 AM # Q
Apple's been down this road before. But I don't believe that is going to keep them from experiencing the same results.

"Superior" hardware running "superior" OS is no guarantee of anything. (Apple's "superiority" is not necessarily established, but for the sake of argument I'll give you that.) But it's the same old story: Apple's got one way of doing it, and if you don't like that, don't try to play in their playground. One company trying to control the hardware, the software, and the data distribution. If that's what you want, great. I don't. (And as much as I don't like the computing world that Bill & Co. have created, better them than Steve & Co.)

Android is going to be running on a lot more than a few HTC devices in the very near future. (If you aren't seeing it happening, you've got blinders on.) Google is playing the game very well at the moment. If Apple and MS aren't "running scared", they are very foolish.

I agree that the average consumer doesn't care about the opensource distinction. But the phone manufacturers/carriers are the one's deciding on what OS goes into those phones, not the average consumer. Android is a compelling package from that point of view. HTC, Samsung, LG, Motorola, Lenovo, Acer, HwaWei, Philips, Dell, etc. certainly can't put Apple's OS on those phones!

So you've got one company selling phones with the iPhone OS. By Q1 2010, let's see how many companies are selling phones (and other devices) with Android at the core.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/15/2009 7:18:28 AM # M Q
Care to comment on the fact that all of those companies ran their hardware on Windows Mobile for the last several years, and they all got nowhere? Why would this situation be much different?
RE: Palm up for sale?
jca666us @ 8/15/2009 7:22:52 AM # Q
@ Freak

>From a mindshare perspective alone their position must be terrifying to
>competitors, who have all been summarily reduced to being viewed through
>the prism of "Is it as good as the iPhone?"

In the case of the Pre - the answer is "No!"

RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/15/2009 8:27:30 AM # Q
abosco wrote:
Care to comment on the fact that all of those companies ran their hardware on Windows Mobile for the last several years, and they all got nowhere? Why would this situation be much different?

Sure.

WM sucks...

...and Android doesn't.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Palm up for sale?
Gekko @ 8/15/2009 10:08:19 AM # Q

Last week saw the launch of the first phone based on Google's open-source Android platform.

But Mr Ballmer said an open-source solution would not be attractive to phone manufacturers, and predicted that Windows Mobile phones would stay ahead of Blackberry, Apple's iPhone and Google Android in the smartphone market.

"You've got to remember Android is version one....and it looks like version one," he said.

"They've got one handset maker, we've got 55. They're available through one operator, we've got 175."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7647399.stm

RE: Palm up for sale?
Gekko @ 8/15/2009 11:43:09 AM # Q

Dell's Android Smartphone: New Photos and Specs
By Danny Allen, 3:15 AM on Fri Aug 14 2009, 12,960 views

http://gizmodo.com/5337228/dells-android-smartphone-new-photos-and-specs


RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/15/2009 12:23:24 PM # M Q
twrock, that was mindless. First, ask yourself what allows the iPhone and Blackberry to be successful and popular with consumers. Then ask how Android can top that.

You'll realize that Android is a solution to a problem that doesn't yet exist.

RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/15/2009 4:35:35 PM # Q
Wait and see, just wait and see.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/15/2009 4:39:55 PM # Q
I should have added that saying all those phone manufacturers "got nowhere" was about as mindless.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/15/2009 10:29:44 PM # Q
Really? HTC has been making Windows Mobile phones for several years. They've been absolutely flooding the U.S. market with them. They're third in the U.S. (behind RIM and Apple) and fourth worldwide. Why would Android suddenly make them so much more appealing and less marginalized?

The simple fact is that people really like tight integration. Android propagates the fragmented platform ideology that has not proved itself successful thus far. And the only response I really hear from you sounds like, "It's open source, lol."

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Palm up for sale?
SeldomVisitor @ 8/16/2009 4:03:42 AM # Q
I believe HTC has said they are coming out with some large number (or maybe even percent) of Android phones:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/22/htc-adopting-android-on-50-of-its-handsets-in-2010/

[pardon if already linked somewhere here]


RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/16/2009 4:12:03 AM # Q
abosco wrote:
Really? HTC has been making Windows Mobile phones for several years. They've been absolutely flooding the U.S. market with them. They're third in the U.S. (behind RIM and Apple) and fourth worldwide.

Riddle me this: what is the WM marketshare vs. iPhone? (Not just a single hardware manufacturer's WM phones.)

There's the difference. You are picking a single handset manufacturer (HTC). I am talking about an OS that is not only on HTC phones, but will soon be on a lot of phones and other devices. Apple's battle is not against HTC alone. It's against every other OS running on all other hardware. Android is a single OS, but it will be running on a lot of different manufacturers devices very shortly, not just HTC.

And, yes, I do believe it is compelling vs. WM for handset manufactures.

But once again, just wait and see. We'll start seeing it soon enough.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/16/2009 4:16:37 AM # Q
Gekko wrote:
"You've got to remember [Windows Mobile] is version [six]....and it looks like version one."



Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/16/2009 4:19:49 AM # Q
(Oops, inadvertent click there.)

WM had the problem of starting with the wrong paradigm from the beginning. Interestingly though, the hardware seems to be actually catching up with what they've been trying to achieve: a desktop OS in your hand. ;-)

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/16/2009 7:01:36 AM # M Q
Microsoft's share continued to drop year-on-year to account for 9 per cent of the market in the second quarter of 2009.

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1126812

According to Gartnet, Apple has 13.3%, Microsoft has 9%, and of that, HTC has 6%. These are worldwide numbers.

RE: Palm up for sale?
abosco @ 8/16/2009 7:03:01 AM # M Q
Gartner*

The iPhone autocorrect has failed me.

RE: Palm up for sale?
twrock @ 8/16/2009 8:20:01 AM # Q
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?
Reply to this comment

How about the rest of the world?

Ce @ 8/13/2009 1:26:08 PM # Q
@hkklife

add the foreign consumers who have absolutely no clue IF and WHEN the pre will show up. For the Netherlands....probably 2010. Therefore the little "momentum" of the Pre is "US only", outside the US is doesn't get any attention at all.

Reply to this comment

Pre in the Wild?

Gekko @ 8/13/2009 2:20:49 PM # Q

i live in a major metro area and travel to many other major metro areas and run around on the town quite a bit - and to this day, i have NEVER EVER seen a Pre in the wild.

you?

RE: Pre in the Wild?
abosco @ 8/13/2009 4:10:20 PM # Q
Nothing in Philadelphia.

However, I have noticed a horrendous trend of people at parties gravitating towards talking about their cell phones at length. Instead of making peoples' lives easier, smartphones have made them more boring and one-dimensional.

Plenty of chicks with a Blackberry or iPhone in a pink skin, though. And I saw one G1 and burst out in laughter at the enormous size with its case. It was a bent brick.

-Bosco
m105 -> NX70v -> NX80v -> iPhone -> iPhone 3G

RE: Pre in the Wild?
mikecane @ 8/13/2009 4:47:33 PM # Q
I have not been out and about as I usually have been. At ferry terminal, still iPhone (or iPod Touch, hard to tell when in case and being used for music!) and Sidekicks.
RE: Pre in the Wild?
DarthRepublican @ 8/13/2009 7:13:14 PM # Q
Here in Chicago, I've seen at least a couple of Pres in the wild including the two that I and my boss own. (He already had one when I started working for him and his had a busted speaker and had to be replaced. Mine works great.) Of course this is a modest number compared to the gazillions iPhones and iPod Touches out there.
Screw convergence
Palm III->Visor Deluxe->Visor Platinum->Visor Prism->Tungsten E->Palm LifeDrive->Palm TX->Palm Pre
Visor Pro+VisorPhone->Treo 180g->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 680->T-Mobile G1->Palm Pre
http://mind-grapes.blogspot.com/
RE: Pre in the Wild?
hkklife @ 8/13/2009 8:22:42 PM # Q
I've yet to see a single Pre in the wild, though I must confess to living in "the sticks" with a "bunch of hillbillies" as Gekko so eloquently put it. Well, I actually saw a guy wrapping up his purchase at BB but I have not seen an active Pre out in the wild being used by someone.

I've probably seen more BB Tours (Verizon) in the first week of its release than I've seen people fondling the Pre demos in Sprint & BB stores.
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Pre in the Wild?
Gekko @ 8/14/2009 7:44:24 AM # Q
Reply to this comment

Waiting for VZW

surfmaniac @ 8/13/2009 3:23:01 PM # Q
This is more about Srpint than PALM, wait til this phone goes on Verizon (and the app catalogue fills out) the things will be looking good... (since many folks I know are waiting for 2nd/larger carrier)


Malibu Surfer

RE: Waiting for VZW
mikecane @ 8/13/2009 4:48:24 PM # Q
Given how fed up people have become with AT&T, the same could be said if iPhone goes to Verizon in January.
RE: Waiting for VZW
surfmaniac @ 8/13/2009 5:55:09 PM # Q
Very true. I have one and am tired of dropped calls and spotty service here in the LA area... and I'm a lifelong APPL guy (back to the 80s, when they didn't even have h/drives.)
Reply to this comment

@hkklife

horatio8 @ 8/13/2009 4:57:12 PM # Q
@hkklife

My opinion is you're overthinking this - the Pre is a nice compromise between the iPhone and the Blackberry - there are things I miss from my Treo 650 with Chatteremail, but WebOs will only get better

Reply to this comment

HIT ALL THE POINTS

ronhoney @ 8/13/2009 4:57:48 PM # Q
Major ones for me were:
- going away from desktop sync or at least an option vice the "cloud"
- no SD storage
- not be able to run the ton of Palm apps out there natively within Web OS
- lack of graffiti capability
- Biggest...the newly reported auto collection of usage & location info
- lastly, Plam development team not listening to an already established user base.

iPhone is looking better all the time.
Ron Honey

Reply to this comment

Analysts schmanalysts

freakout @ 8/13/2009 5:02:52 PM # Q
And here's the punch line: Kumar contends that "due to weakening demand," Pre production levels for the remainder of the year have been chopped by 500,000 units. (How he knows this, Kumar does not say.)

Because he pulled it out of his ass, like all of them do. These "channel checks" they cite vary so wildly from analyst to analyst, it should be self-evident by now that they're next to worthless.

RE: Analysts schmanalysts
jca666us @ 8/13/2009 5:36:21 PM # M Q
Famous last words freak - just as deluded as your statements regarding the o3d api.

More than one analyst are saying sales are slowing down.

Palm has been running on fumes for a while. At some point they'll have to make money the old fashioned way.

Not by cooking the books, not by a cash infusion, but by selling products people want and making a profit.

RE: Analysts schmanalysts
freakout @ 8/13/2009 7:03:52 PM # Q
just as deluded as your statements regarding the o3d api.

What, the ones where I said "I'm not saying it's coming to the Pre, but this is an example of the capabilities of web languages"? Yes, somebody stop me, I must be crazy.

RE: Analysts schmanalysts
LiveFaith @ 8/13/2009 7:36:19 PM # Q
** ... it should be self-evident by now that they're next to worthless **

Pretty accurate on that one Freak.
Pat Horne

RE: Analysts schmanalysts
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 1:12:15 AM # Q
Like I said freak - famous last words.

"Palm's Pre Is Trying to Live Up to the Hype"

http://tinyurl.com/pkpgkp

"...analysts estimate that Palm likely will sell just 300,000 to 500,000 Pres in their first three months on the market. That's not bad, but it's short of the outsize expectations ramped up by the phone's advanced technology and splashy debut."

"Pre appears to be a niche product, with a particular appeal to Palm devotees."

"To stanch its losses and return to tech industry relevance, Palm will need to expand its market and grab a slice of equally loyal iPhone and BlackBerry users. So far, Wall Street is waiting for the evidence."

RE: Analysts schmanalysts
freakout @ 8/14/2009 2:02:11 AM # Q
You post an article full of analysts talking outta their butts with exactly the wildly varying figures I mentioned and think it proves something...?

The last sentence says it all: waiting for evidence. So am I.

RE: Analysts schmanalysts
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 4:20:17 AM # Q
Waiting for evidence from Palm - that they're generating decent sales.

Poor build quality, poor battery life, and sluggish performance do not help to spread good word of mouth.

You say don't listen to analysts - I think you should - it evens out the bullshit spewed by McNamee.

400,000 after three months isn't bad - but nowhere near the hype spread by McNamee - that's why the analysts are trumpeting doom & gloom.

RE: Analysts schmanalysts
rmhurdman @ 8/14/2009 8:10:40 AM # Q
Freakout is right on this one. The analysts may, or may not, be right. The problem is that there's no way to know which it is. So while you can't automatically dismiss their numbers out of hand as being wrong, you can't assume they're right, either. Much better just to ignore them.
RE: Analysts schmanalysts
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 7:12:30 PM # Q
These analysts are like buzzards picking at a corpse - however if the Pre was selling gangbusters you'd have heard it by now.

If the sales keep slipping, they'll be selling the Palm Pre at Tiger Direct for $49.99

Reply to this comment

Wait

Palmfan751 @ 8/13/2009 6:16:52 PM # Q
1. Reasons pre will get better
This is version 1.0. The first iphone was not that good.

2. Flash is coming to the pre.

3. More apps will come.

4. Software updates.

5. Palm will eventually create their own software to sync for the pre.

RE: Wait
jca666us @ 8/13/2009 6:40:44 PM # M Q
>1. The first iphone was not that good.

Compared to Pre 1.0 - I'd disagree. The iPhone 1.0 was substantially better.

>2. Flash is coming to the pre.

First mojo was the savior, now it's flash. Get back to me when the sdk supports compiled apps.

>3. More apps will come.

When mojo improves.

>4. Software updates.

That remains to be seen.

>5. Palm will eventually create their own software
>to sync for the pre.

They already did - it's called iTunes!!!

lmao!

RE: Wait
freakout @ 8/13/2009 7:08:06 PM # Q
Compared to Pre 1.0 - I'd disagree. The iPhone 1.0 was substantially better.

Yes, that $500 2G phone with no third-party apps whatsoever was amazing. Get real!

RE: Wait
hkklife @ 8/13/2009 8:18:45 PM # Q
I was actually contemplating writing another post talking about all of the good things I didn't touch upon in my above rant but I had to run so I figured I'd let everyone get a chance to chime in and then I'd post a few follow-up thoughts.

For the sake of this argument, let's say that Palm stays in business, remains an independent entity, and continues forward pretty much par for the course. Let's say that a good bit of nifty (ie non-fart apps, etc) start appearing in the app store over the next 6-12 months.

I basically see Palm reinforcing and building upon ALL of WebOS' (and the Pre) current strengths and shoring up some of the current flaws but never looking backwards. That is, what will a Pre 3.0 look like in 2 years' time?

32GB internal storage, better build quality, possibly eventually adding video recording, voice memos (both likely for a $ for download plugin or separate app), even better use of Synergy & Web 2.0 integration, maybe eventually making good on McNamee's promise if the Pre emailing your contact to let him know you are running late for the meeting etc.

In all their hubris, I DO NOT see Ruby and co. saying "Gosh, Jeff and those plucky guys in the Pilot team had it right in 1996". I don't envision a well-worn copy of "Piloting Palm" constantly being in Rubinstein's briefcase nor do I see him rehiring Hawkins, Rob Haitani, or the tap counter. And we can forget about Palm bringing back the d-pad, the stylus, Graffiti 1, or a memory card slot. They will continue moving forward and refining everything that is in the Pre 1.0. But in no way, shape or form do I see Palm reaching into their past and beefing up the PIM apps or doing anything of that nature.

But I never write pieces based on "if, maybe, or hopefully". I wrote about the PRESENT and the PAST. And so far, Palm's efforts from Jan-August are increasingly failing to impress me.

Or to perhaps state it better: would I buy a "Pre Touch" for $199-$299 right now to play around with and so I can have some kind of WebOS device for PIC research purposes? Absolutely! Would I use such a device around the house as a poor man's web tablet/PMP/MID? Absolutely, I do the same with my old TX and would do the exact same thing with an iPod Touch. But would I lay out $199 or $299 and lock myself in for $99+ for the next $24 months with the frightening prospect of WebOS, Sprint, Palm and even the fragile Pre itself not being around in two years? Hell no!
Pilot 1000->Pilot 5000->PalmPilot Pro->IIIe->Vx->m505->T|T->T|T2->T|C->T|T3->T|T5->Zodiac 2->TX->Verizon Treo 700P->Verizon Treo 755p->?

RE: Wait
jeffq @ 8/13/2009 9:06:26 PM # Q
Have to agree with hkklife on this. Gimme a "Treo Pre" just like my precious Treo 680, with keyboard, stylus, voice recorder, multifunction Bluetooth, and a (16GB+) SDHC slot; have it run webOS and put it on the AT&T network, and I'll sign up. (I might even consider switching to Verizon just to get it, but not Sprint.) Until then, the Pre is nothing but an intriguing toy to me.
RE: Wait
abosco @ 8/13/2009 9:22:40 PM # M Q
Yes, that $500 2G phone with no third-party apps whatsoever was amazing. Get real!

This is a complete failure to recognize influence. If you guys don't think the first iPhone was any good, please ask the question as to why it sold so many units.

Two years ago, the majority of people didn't care about apps and 3G. The iPhone was the first phone to come out with the specific intention of lowering your blood pressure. The touchscreen interface completely blew everything else out of the water. Companies suddenly realized that people cared less about specs and more about industrial design for a product they use dozens of times daily.

A year later, with tons of copycats with nice big screens and touch interfaces, that's when the ecosystem took off. But the groundwork was laid by the original iPhone. In that respect, the iPhone 1.0 really was "that good".

Clear the air
Palmfan751 @ 8/13/2009 9:54:16 PM # Q
Yes the iphone was truly revolutionary at the time of its release. No one cared about gps or apps. Give palm time remember their was no such thing as a an app store when the iphone was around so no one was rushing them into putting together an appstore.

RE: Wait
twrock @ 8/14/2009 1:24:21 AM # Q
@hkklife
Yes, yes and yes.

The Palm that created the Pilot, the V, the Treo, and the TX is gone. They are a new company with new people at the helm. The new Palm will go its own way.

Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: Wait
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 4:11:02 AM # Q
>Yes, that $500 2G phone with no third-party apps whatsoever was amazing.

For its time it was - it did alot of things other cellphones (like your trusty Treo) couldn't manage (while it was also missing alot of functionality).

Multitouch aside - the best web browser (at the time) on a mobile device.

The Pre has nothing that is as "amazing" - except juggling balls - lol!

Reply to this comment

I'm amazed

loftwyr @ 8/14/2009 6:45:24 AM # Q
The number of overly vocal people who either no longer own a Palm device or are stuck in 1996 wanting the Pilot back who sit here sniping at Palm is amazing.

Aren't there other places you could be hanging out where your negativity would be welcomed? I mean seriously. Yes, the Pre may not be perfect but it is a huge step forward from the PalmOS dead days.

I understand you want your iPhone/Palm 505/TX/etc. to be recognized as the greatest device ever made and no other device will ever be as good. But seriously people, get a life.

I loved my Pilot, my Palm 3, 5, 505 and, T3. I think the iPhone was a needed revolution in phones to kick the manufacturers out of linear thinking.

But none of that is important here. If you're unhappy with what Palm is doing, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is always good. Griping that the Pre isn't a 505/TX/iPhone isn't useful.

Does the Pre have 50,000,000 apps and a years old user base? NO! Is it the perfect organizer for the engineer in need? NO! Does the iPhone have strong (and growing) homebrew fan base NO! is iTunes the be-all and end-all of music apps? NO!

So, in conclusion, we need people to show us where things can improve. Nobody needs someone who's whole purpose of commenting is how the Pre isn't what they think Palm should be and if they were the President of Palm wouldn't have been what they would have done. We all know you would have created the better TX/iphone/android with the perfect set of features. If this description includes you, you can be assured we've all heard you and you can move on to and HTC info site and start bitching there.

RE: I'm amazed
gmayhak @ 8/14/2009 8:04:45 AM # Q
>

We tried for the past couple years but no one at Palm listened.
Tech Center Labs

Reply to this comment

iPhone vs. Pre: What users want - Fortune

Gekko @ 8/14/2009 8:52:21 AM # Q

iPhone vs. Pre: Satisfaction bakeoff
Posted by Philip Elmer-DeWitt
August 14, 2009 10:13 AM

Bakeoff

Source: RBC/ChangeWave

Palm Pre owners love their smartphones, but not as much as owners of Apple new 3GS iPhone love theirs.

In a survey of 200 3GS users conducted Aug. 4-11 by RBC Capital and ChangeWave Research, 99% pronounced themselves satisfied, of which 82% were "very satisfied."

In a matching survey of 40 Pre owners, 87% said they were satisfied and 45% "very satisfied."

Nonetheless, writes RBC's Mike Abramsky in a report to clients Friday, "that's the highest score ever recorded in our prior Palm satisfaction surveys and above all other manufacturers except RIM (48%) and Apple (82%)."

Below the fold: what Apple (AAPL) and Palm (PALM) owners said they liked best and disliked most about their smartphones.

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/08/14/iphone-vs-pre-satisfaction-bakeoff/

RE: iPhone vs. Pre: What users want - Fortune
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 2:58:32 PM # M Q
What's wrong; they couldn't find 200 Pre users??
RE: iPhone vs. Pre: What users want - Fortune
twrock @ 8/14/2009 6:42:48 PM # Q
@jca666us

So it must be your high level of satisfaction with your iPhone that keeps you hanging around a Palm site, right?


Hey Palm! Where's my PDA with Wifi and phone capabilities?

RE: iPhone vs. Pre: What users want - Fortune
SeldomVisitor @ 8/14/2009 6:57:58 PM # Q
They probably surveyed those 40 (good grief!) Pre owners at the Sunnyvale preDevCamp meeting.

RE: iPhone vs. Pre: What users want - Fortune
jca666us @ 8/14/2009 7:03:17 PM # Q
@ SeldomVisitor - good one!

@twrock - it's my high level of satisfaction with a Tungsten T many years ago that keeps me coming here. I keep hoping Palm will get their act together.

RE: iPhone vs. Pre: What users want - Fortune
freakout @ 8/14/2009 7:35:45 PM # Q
^^ What a load of shite. You constantly post ill-thought-out FUD and childish insults. These are not the actions of someone living in hope; these are the actions of an embittered nutcase. You refuse to see the positive in anything Palm does, and on those few occasions when you do it's a backhanded compliment at best.

Your comments frequently display a stunning misunderstanding of technical issues. Your arguments constantly shift whenever somebody calls you out on it. The most frequent end to a thread that contains a "conversation" with you is a pitifully immature ad-hominem insult.

This all might be acceptable if you were an entertaining nutcase, like SV or The (late) Voice of Reason. But you're not. You're a waste of space. Go die in a fire.

RE: iPhone vs. Pre: What users want - Fortune
jca666us @ 8/15/2009 7:20:45 AM # Q
>^^ What a load of shite.

You smell shite?? Close your mouth.

>You constantly post ill-thought-out FUD and childish insults.

You must be speaking of yourself freak. At times I do make sarcastic postings - and insult only when insulted.

>You refuse to see the positive in anything Palm does, and on those few
>occasions when you do it's a backhanded compliment at best.

In your humble opinion - which in my opinion doesn't mean much.

The good things Palm has done:

- Developing webos (certain aspects of it are refined beyond the iphone)
- Getting the Pre out the door

The bad things Palm has done:

- Lame Pre advertising
- Poor Build quality on the Pre
- The (currently) poor state of the Mojo SDK
- The beta-esque quality of aspects of webos
- Missing functionality from webos
- The itunes fiasco

I think Palm screwed themselves out of a good opportunity with the Pre - as I was looking forward to a device that was geared towards users of the older Palm OS devices - both in for form-factor and functionality. I made the comment that instead of making a device built upon what the users of Palm OS devices would want, they made the Pre into a wannabe iphone.

Rule #1 - know your audience. Palm's hardcore audience left them.

>Your comments frequently display a stunning misunderstanding of technical
>issues.

I've largely listened to and responded to - opinion. I made the (correct) statement that Mojo would suck for quality games and apps that required high performance.

You denied that and mentioned o3d and flash. o3d doesn't exist for mobile devices and flash isn't here yet. The proper solution is for Palm to get a native code SDK out there - Javascript is not a viable long-term solution (yet) - even if it is, it will never compare to binary applications.

Then you crowed about video recording on the Pre - the hardware supports it and the low-level software supports it. The UI doesn't support, yet you go on about how the Pre supports video recording. As I stated earlier, if the Pre supported video recording properly, Palm would be trumpeting this all over the place. Fact is, they're not. I tend to side with Palm in this regard.

The itunes argument isn't a technical issue (solely) - it's largely a grey area - however it's a feature no Pre user should be dependent upon - as it will probably be disabled (again).

>This all might be acceptable if you were an entertaining nutcase, like SV or
>The (late) Voice of Reason. But you're not. You're a waste of space. Go die
>in a fire.

Oh my, an insult from Freak - if I'm to die in a fire come with me - we'll go together. LOL!

Get over yourself.

Reply to this comment

Smartphone wars - BlackBerry's plan to win - Fortune

Gekko @ 8/17/2009 7:42:54 AM # Q
RE: Smartphone wars - BlackBerry's plan to win - Fortune
abosco @ 8/17/2009 8:29:40 AM # M Q
Interesting read, but it downplayed the failure of the Storm and the reason behind it. RIM has an old OS that is running fine now, but may begin to show its age soon. Also, I didn't like this quote:

In a typical year, 2,000 Waterloo students are spending their "co-op" semester of work placement as RIM employees. They serve as a much-needed supplement to Research in Motion's ballooning operations.

I am fresh out of college with several co-op and internship experiences, and I can tell you what works and what doesn't. First, they are pretty brilliant in hiring legions of faithful interns that work for practically a third of a full-time engineer's salary. You can get a lot of mid-level work done for peanuts, and you guarantee a workforce of experienced, knowledgable technical guys in the future.

But what doesn't work is getting them all from the same university. By doing that, you end up drawing the same ideas, the same mentality, and people coached to technical fluency by the same professors. I cannot tell you how many times I quickly picked up on a colleague's inadequacy or complacency that I could correct thanks to my education. For example, one local engineering school taught statics and dynamics as one course from an inferior textbook and with larger classroom sizes. Mine was two separate courses with a much more comprehensive book, and with class sizes around 15 people. When I was working for a medical device company, this heavy background in strength of materials and mechanics became useful. The end result was that I designed different products. Sometimes mine worked better, sometimes they sucked. But the variance in educational institutions was a clear divide. I believe it was one that actually helped business.

If RIM is sourcing a lot of their new R&D talent from the same schools, they risk stagnation in the future. On the other hand, Apple came to my school to recruit and I interviewed (the job was in product development for the iPhone/iPod Touch division). My school is in Pennsylvania. Apple is literally thousands of miles away.

Think about those two strategies from a sustainability standpoint. Which one sounds better for long-term growth to you?

Reply to this comment
Start a New Comment Thread Top

Account

Register Register | Login Log in
user:
pass: