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Comments on: palmOne Zire 72 Handheld Review

The palmOne Zire 72 is palmOne's latest model in the consumer Zire line with a heavy emphasis on multimedia. The handheld brings built in bluetooth wireless, new features, enhanced software and many other improvements over its predecessor. Read on for the full in-depth review.
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Nice Device!

LiveFaith @ 4/28/2004 12:21:06 AM #
Very nice. You guys held the bag shut till midnight, huh? :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Nice Device!
acaltabiano @ 4/28/2004 12:56:17 AM #
Having seen some of the niceties of "Garnet," (really just the screenshots of this and the 31), I want it for my TT3.

RE: Nice Device!
Konstantin @ 4/28/2004 1:13:37 AM #
Maan this is nice.
I have the perfect Palm in sight.
What are the details on DocsToGo version?



RE: Nice Device!
Ronin @ 4/28/2004 8:32:37 AM #
"Having seen some of the niceties of "Garnet," (really just the screenshots of this and the 31), I want it for my TT3."

The important question for me, is whether they have fixed the bugs in the datamanager patch. If so, then I think Palm should release this update to all Tungsten|E and T3 users ASAP.

Can anyone that has one of these install DateBk5 and create an appointment, is there a delay, is there clicking?

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

RE: Nice Device!
IanJD @ 4/28/2004 11:25:20 AM #
"Can anyone that has one of these install DateBk5 and create an appointment, is there a delay, is there clicking?"

Isn't this fixed in the DB5 5.1b release? I haven't had this problem with the T3/DB5 for a while.

RE: Nice Device!
feranick @ 4/28/2004 12:34:36 PM #
Don't expect any upgrade for the T|E & T|T3. Palm has not a good hystory of making upgrades of PIMs and OSs for the older models. I am still waiting for the upgrade of my T|C...

Nick

RE: Nice Device!
Ronin @ 4/28/2004 1:58:46 PM #
"Isn't this fixed in the DB5 5.1b release? I haven't had this problem with the T3/DB5 for a while."

Do not want to stray too far off topic but definitely still there on my T3. My understanding is that the issues have nothing to do with DB5 and that all third-party calendar apps experience the same issues including Agendus. Additionally, the DB5 yahoo group continues to have regular posts about this. CESD has stated the solution must come from PalmOne and the only workaround that he has been able to propose involves masking the datamanager and returning to the legacy databases.

I am, however, curious as to what you did to resolve the issues. BTW, I am using DB5 v5.1b, s1.

Arguably, this is a concern for users and potential users of the 2 new models because if the bugs have not been resolved then a much broader range of users will be effected when using third-party PIM replacements. So does anyone have an answer to the original question?

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin

RE: Nice Device!
GKreamer @ 5/3/2004 12:37:14 PM #
I did the DataManager patch andwent back to the classic databases for a while, but then (for an entirely different reason) I redid my Palm- hard reset, the works. I goofed and did not save copies of AddressDB.pdb, Datebookdb.pdb, etc. so I wound up renaming my account in Palm desktop and exported my PIM data to files and than after adding a new account with my real HotSync name I imported the data back into Palm desktop- the clicking went away, as did the slow screen redraw and the annoying error message when I was in lefthanded landscape mode.

George

RE: Nice Device!
trinitycross @ 5/27/2004 9:52:21 AM #
I just bought a Zire 72 and am having serious compatibility issues with my OS (Win XP Pro). I was wondering if anyone has a compatible USB inf file, as the one the CD that came with my zire refuses to install correctly on my system. I bought the zire two days ago and I have yet to perform a working hot synch. Anyone interested in helping out, you can find the screencap of the Device Manager here:
http://trinitycross.net/screencap.jpg

I've already contacted the tech support at palmone.com, but so far no one has been able to give me advice that actually works. (The emails I've received and sent have added up to 9 so far...) I've so far reinstalled, double-checked my ports, settings, etc. but with no luck.

My email is trinity_cross@yahoo.com

---------

www.trinitycross.net

RE: Nice Device!
BChappy @ 6/1/2004 10:34:29 PM #
I was going to buy a Zire 72, but I changed my mind when I found out that the Zodiac will be sold at CompUSA. Looks like I'll get the Zodiac 2. I am currently using a Zire 71 & I'm still mighty happy with it. I really wanted a bigger screen, & I guess that was the deal breaker when it came to getting the Zire 72.

RE: Nice Device!
arp @ 9/8/2005 7:39:32 PM #
The silver one is better, I have it. On the blue one the blue scratches off...


--
http://www.arpx.net/article.php/top_10_palmos_applications - my top 10 palm apps

Universal Connector?

I.M Anonymous @ 4/28/2004 1:11:53 AM #
Ooh, is that a universal connector I see? I may have just found a replacement for my broken T|E!

RE: Universal Connector?
Admin @ 4/28/2004 1:22:26 AM #
The Zire 72 does not have the UC. It uses the same mini-USB/power dual port that the Tungsten E has.

-Ryan

RE: Universal Connector?
M3wThr33 @ 4/28/2004 3:07:24 AM #
I noticed that, too. What the heck? My 71 has the UC. The 72 doesn't. At least I don't see the notches.

That's a definite deal breaker for me.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. We're in space.

RE: Universal Connector?
JonathanChoo @ 4/28/2004 6:10:49 AM #
I welcome the death of Palm Universal Connector and welcome the arrival of the miniUSB standard. If all PDAs has miniUSB then it makes life easier to find cables, connect to GPS and keyboards using a single connector.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
RE: Universal Connector?
gfunkmagic @ 4/28/2004 6:25:09 AM #
>>>>I welcome the death of Palm >>>Universal Connector and >>welcome the arrival of the >miniUSB standard...

IMO one of the biggest mistakes PalmOne made is call the PUC a "universal" connector in the first place. If they had never called it universal, they wouldn't be in the marketing mess they're now in where users expect to see it in every handheld (or rather the mid-to-high end). Anyway, I suppose we should be glad palm used the connector for as long as they have...



I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Universal Connector?
JonathanChoo @ 4/28/2004 8:52:35 AM #
Hp sometimes call their connector a universal connector but not much. The target for the Zire 31 and Zire 72 seems to be at new market hence most of them probably haven't even heard of a so called universal connector.

I seemsed to remember back when the m50x series came out, Palm did say they would stick with the PUC for a few years. Also, by moving to miniUSB they can easily implement USB 2.0 in the future if needed.

Its a shame that the Zire 31's miniUSB connector is on the side. A single cradle could be developed to suit all the miniUSB Palms.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630

RE: Universal Connector?
RhinoSteve @ 4/28/2004 10:14:39 AM #
Never look for conspiracy when you can look for incompetence -- especially in the "sans Handspring" Palm product marketing crew. Here are a few facts that I believe introverted some of the product plans.

* One thing to keep the costs of these devices cheap is to not have a cradle. The accountants won over the human factors guys here.
* Universal Connector was developed at Palm as a response to Handspring's Springboard module.
* Handspring merged with Palm last year to make PalmOne.
* Jeff is back and UC was developed off his watch. (I.e. it is a red headed stepchild to him.)
* Needing to plug a cable into a Palm to Sync, gets bothersome quick and goes against the "Zen of Palm."

Thus, in my opinion, what we are seeing here is the last of the non-Handspring legacy product plans rolled out without Jeff being around. Typically it is about a six to nine month period from product planning, to design, to manufacturing to shipping for a new Palm OS device.

I expect to see UC survive on the new Tungsten’s but not on the Zire. Why the Zire 71 has UC and the Tungsten E didn't is beyond me. Frankly, they should have been called "Tungsten 71" and "Zire E."

This mess should be corrected in the next product rollout in time for the Christmas season.

RE: Universal Connector?
markhawke7 @ 4/28/2004 11:00:18 AM #
The only problem with doing away with the PUC is that now there is NO way to connect a serial GPS (or other serial device) to it. The USB port is wonderful but USB-to-serial adapters expect the USB device to be the master. NO PDA's are currently pulling that off. So if Palm were REALLY smart, they would have used some of their brainpower to come out with some nifty/wizbang cable that allows me to plug my Garmin into the whole breed of USB-only devices they are releasing.

Yes, I understand that there are now GPS's that can be connected with both Bluetooth and with SD. However, the Bluetooth GPS's are MORE expensive than the PDA's and there is only ONE SD GPS available that will work with a Palm device. So if you've already got a GPS and want to use it, you're better off switching to a Sony. At least they haven't dumped their serial port (yet).

Overall, both devices are bit disappointing. Later!

-Mark

RE: Universal Connector?
cbowers @ 4/28/2004 11:03:28 AM #
"I welcome the death of Palm Universal Connector and welcome the arrival of the miniUSB standard. If all PDAs has miniUSB then it makes life easier to find cables, connect to GPS and keyboards using a single connector."

Er, you missed the point. All PalmOne USB ports thus far do not have host mode. Accessories like all of the above you mention need to connect to a host. Well with one exception, there is a GPS that will connect to a PalmOne USB port, but the GPS has an ARM processor in it and a host mode port that the PDA connects to.

RE: Universal Connector?
mint @ 4/28/2004 12:57:12 PM #
what the universal connector has and mini-usb doesn't is, check the pin, rs-232c interface. since, no one use rs-232c anymore, it is a very good reason to remove it. beside, bluetooth do a much better job. low cost pda nowaday all ditch this rs-232c, coz it is way way obsolete.

the only device that matter is the keyboard becoz so many of them was sold. heck, ir keyboard do the samething and even cross-platform, very easy to make and potentially will be very cheap. yes, i remember about gps, but how many installed serial gps units are out there right now. and if you could afford to buy gps, may be you could afford to buy a more expensive model.

i prefer to have less cable as possible. i even think the mini-usb is not necessery. since i could use bluetooth to sync, so unless the mini-usb is used for charging up the pda as well, i could easily live without it.

___________________________________
if it's not practical, it's a cult.

RE: Universal Connector?
JonathanChoo @ 4/28/2004 1:33:37 PM #
"what the universal connector has and mini-usb doesn't is, check the pin, rs-232c interface. since, no one use rs-232c anymore, it is a very good reason to remove it. beside, bluetooth do a much better job. low cost pda nowaday all ditch this rs-232c, coz it is way way obsolete."

Exactly! There is no point for a serial connector anymore in such a modern product. Even most new PC has done away with legacy ports. It costs money, its slower and it serfs no purpose in Palm's target area for the Zires. Zire 31 - low costs solution mostly targeted at newbies who probably has no PUC accessories. Zire 72 - has bluetooth to hotsync with PC & IrDA to interface with keyboard. A miniUSB cable is so much better as it can work with an external harddrive and most digital cameras. One cable for all your gadgets.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630

RE: Universal Connector missing? *&#@!!!!
mikemusick @ 4/28/2004 2:05:38 PM #
> since, no one use rs-232c anymore

I'm sorry, but it is still used WIDELY... just not in consumer products. Instrumentation, industrial and specialty communications applications rely heavily on peer-to-peer interfaces for data exchange. RS232 remains the most common denominator in specialty interface systems. The objective is to spend your engineering time and money solving your application problem rather than mucking around in the interface-du-jour.

I write business and industrial vertical-market applications for Palm OS. These newest releases backing away from a "universal" interface are yet another kick-in-the-nuts from Palm.

I have one client whose long-term development project has been migrated - and postponed - THREE TIMES because an "available" interface was withdrawn by a Palm OS licensee. My last advice to them was "Bluetooth or PocketPC, and I can't assure you that Bluetooth is going anywhere."

"Hey, Palm! Every spring you kick the knees out from under an interface. If you're happy with selling $99 Zires at Wal-Mart, be my guest, but you have essentially told the business application market yet again to #&%@ off."

>-(

RE: Universal Connector?
hoodoo @ 4/28/2004 2:28:14 PM #
"Exactly! There is no point for a serial connector anymore in such a modern product."

Except for me I suppose, I haven't upgraded my home PC and my office uses Windows NT (no USB support). I mostly sync my Palm (Treo 180) at work with Outlook, and it's absolutely essential to have a serial connect as a result. I can't upgrade with no way to connect & sync!!

I wonder how many users are in this boat?

RE: Universal Connector?
mikecane @ 4/28/2004 2:34:02 PM #
Sorry for your vertical market, but I also want to see the death of the PUC.

Owners of the Enfora Wireless Portfolio have complained about the looseness of the PUC connection. Perhaps mini-USB is the way to go here.

Now if only Enfora will release a version of the Portfolio with *that* connector...

RE: Universal Connector?
Altema @ 4/28/2004 2:36:41 PM #
The death of the UC would be the kiss of death for some users. How much voltage does the mini-usb connector supply for accessories? How do network engineers out in the field connect to equiment made by a little company called Cisco with a usb connection? Speaking of which, a senior engineer was just in my office drooling... until he found out about the mini-usb. "Oh well, back to the drawing board" was his comment as he walked out of my office.

The UC is useless for some, critical for others. With the UC you get rs-232, charging inputs, power output, and usb in one deal.

I know they had to drop something in order to add BT, RAM, mic, better processor, AND a better camera, and I think they made the right choice in dropping the UC for this model. However, the UC does have it's uses.

RE: Universal Connector?
statik @ 4/28/2004 2:50:17 PM #
The serial port is disappearing all over the place. Going with the standards (irDa, Bluetooth, USB) is a great move on PalmOnes part.

If you still need to connect to an older serial device, there are options out there that will let you use BlueTooth instead. Check out http://www.digi.com/products/usb/wavespeeds.jsp for example.

RE: Universal Connector?
Strider_mt2k @ 4/28/2004 3:11:32 PM #
Anybody requiring the features of the PUC will get something OTHER than a low-end Zire.

The consumers this is aimed at don't care about the PUC and it's capabilities, they want to sync and go!



RE: Universal Connector?
mikecane @ 4/28/2004 3:25:44 PM #
>>>With the UC you get rs-232, charging inputs, power output, and usb in one deal.

Thanks for the education. Do PPCs offer this in their connectors?

RE: Universal Connector?
hotpaw4 @ 4/28/2004 3:33:18 PM #
Typical consumers (the target for this product) no longer buy any other devices which have a serial port and thus require a UC.

For the tiny percentage of industrial and NMEA/GPS customers who still use serial port devices, there are lots of IR-to-serial and Bluetooth-to-serial converter pods out there, all with the advantage of better electrical isolation (less static zap and sudden death problems).


RE: Universal Connector?
rogernc74 @ 4/28/2004 4:06:19 PM #
>>Now if only Enfora will release a version of the Portfolio with *that* connector...

When I was asking questions about support for future OSes like OS 6( which they said they were planning on supporting via drivers by the way, wanted to make sure my purchase could potentially be brought forward to the new OS. ), the person that had answered to me from Enfora mentionned they are also coming out with a version of their portfolio that would work with the USB connector of the Tungsten E. Just figured i'd let you guys know.

Roger

RE: Universal Connector?
Haber @ 4/28/2004 7:34:40 PM #
"Except for me I suppose, I haven't upgraded my home PC and my office uses Windows NT (no USB support). I mostly sync my Palm (Treo 180) at work with Outlook, and it's absolutely essential to have a serial connect as a result. I can't upgrade with no way to connect & sync!!

I wonder how many users are in this boat?"

My Palm Vx connects via serial to my Windows XP box. Windows 2000 laptop has USB, but no USB accessories. My NT box has USB headers on the motherboard, but obviously no point in adding the cables. What I *do* need for the NT box is a *serial* modem that is on the WHQL, as all none of my PCI modems work with it.

RE: Universal Connector?
treesee @ 4/28/2004 7:46:07 PM #
Not having a Universal connector is a terrible mistake for Palm. I have been a Palm user (currently a Zire71 with recent blems on the screen telling me a replacement is soon needed)
I am tired of buying stowaway, or more recently thin keyboards or other add ons with the promise of universal connectors. Then Palm does a number to a Zire and wrecks compatibility.
If Palm wants to change connectors, it must include convertors to backward compatability.
This is not such a problem with friends who have various other type PDAs.

RE: Universal Connector?
mikecane @ 4/29/2004 12:24:43 AM #
>>>Enfora mentionned they are also coming out with a version of their portfolio that would work with the USB connector of the Tungsten E.

I just hope it comes out faster than the original product did. It took too bloody long!

RE: Universal Connector?
M3wThr33 @ 4/29/2004 7:28:05 AM #
The two things major things a UC would do for me is a keyboard connection and a wi-fi sled.

If a wi-fi sled could be made for the 72, assuming it sells like wildfire, a wireless bluetooth keyboard would do just fine, I guess.

RE: Universal Connector?
batmon @ 4/29/2004 3:12:31 PM #
Is that miniUSB a master or a host?? If it is a host, then I don't think we can even connect a USB keyboard to it.

Maybe Palm should look into USB-OTG, it will do both master and host, then we can even connect a USB HD, USB flash, USB convertor, etc to it.

Universal Connector vs Mini-USB
TC @ 4/29/2004 9:41:28 PM #
Hi, I would like to know whether the mini-USB on the Zire 72 is a full-fledged USB connection, or is it only used for sync'ing and charging purposes ?

Thanks.

RE: Universal Connector?
JonathanChoo @ 4/29/2004 9:50:56 PM #
"I am tired of buying stowaway, or more recently thin keyboards or other add ons with the promise of universal connectors. Then Palm does a number to a Zire and wrecks compatibility."

Then get the Wireless Keyboard which can be used with almost all PalmOS and PocketPC PDAs with an IrDA slot. I bought a Keyboard XT few months ago and am glad I sold it and bought a Wireless keyboard because a few months later I got the h4150 iPAQ. Now I have a keyboard for both my T3 and h4150.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630

RE: Universal Connector?
JonathanChoo @ 4/29/2004 9:54:03 PM #
"Hey, Palm! Every spring you kick the knees out from under an interface. If you're happy with selling $99 Zires at Wal-Mart, be my guest, but you have essentially told the business application market yet again to #&%@ off."

The Zire is a consumer device. They have the Tungsten line for business market. But most businesses who uses serial connectors are industrial and Palmone isn't in the market. They are way behind the vertical market and probably sees no point chasing it.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630

RE: Universal Connector?
JonathanChoo @ 4/29/2004 9:57:50 PM #
"If a wi-fi sled could be made for the 72, assuming it sells like wildfire, a wireless bluetooth keyboard would do just fine, I guess."

A cool WiFi sled was the Xircom WiFi sled for m5xx series. It clips to the back, has its own battery and can charge the Palm. It even uses a standard AC connector. It does not need any software installation, just plug and go (ala Handspring Springboard). Too bad Intel never released a firmware upgrade for it to work on OS5.


--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630

RE: Universal Connector?
vesther @ 7/17/2004 1:29:21 PM #
It would've been nice if the Zire 72 used a Universal Connector instead of a separate HotSync Cable and Charger. The Cable and Charger handicap is gonna somewhat kill the Zire 72's productivity potential, as "things" requiring the PUC is gonna be incompatible with this handheld.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

Bluetooth

tfftruoa @ 4/28/2004 1:40:04 AM #
The new bluetooth setup thing looks like a windows wizard!

That said, the new OS (5.2.8) looks like it has better bluetooth integration. Any idea or news on a possible OS update, or at least a BT update for current p1 models?

The Federation for the Responsible Use of Acronyms

RE: Bluetooth
JonathanChoo @ 4/28/2004 9:05:20 AM #
Windows wizard! My God! I have a windows wizard for Bluetooth setup on my h4150 and its hell to use. I rather have the simple bluetooth configuration on my T3.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
RE: Bluetooth
feranick @ 4/28/2004 12:36:56 PM #
Don't expect any upgrade for the Zire71. Palm has not a good hystory of making upgrades of PIMs and OSs for the older models. Also the Z71 has not a flash ROM, so the upgdare is even more unlikely.

Nick

Nice Reset Hole

bcombee @ 4/28/2004 1:50:50 AM #
It looks like they've provided an easily pressed reset hole this time around, something you can get to with the stylus tip. For programmers, that's pretty important. I do hope it supports USB debugging; so far, PalmOne's been pretty good about that on their OS 5 devices, but it's something that's easy to miss during device development.

My order's in the queue. :)

--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog

RE: Nice Reset Hole
Strider_mt2k @ 4/28/2004 3:37:13 PM #
It's amazing to me that this hasn't been the standard from the beginning.

"Hmm, we'll put a pointy stick on board, but require an even smaller one to reset the machine."

It's a very late development.


RE: Nice Reset Hole
Wollombi @ 4/29/2004 12:12:34 PM #
It's a late development for PalmOne, but not a late development in general. Handera had this 4 years ago.

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Nice Reset Hole
Admin @ 4/29/2004 12:15:48 PM #
It's a real blessing for this model, since the Zire 71 had the small hole that required a paperclip and the stylus didn't have a reset thing built in, which was a major pain.

Palm and Verizon

mic_cord @ 4/28/2004 3:50:31 AM #
Ah...so cool!

Anyone know when the Treo 600 (or 610) will debut with Verizon? I want that and the Zire 72! Palm kicks arse.

What happened to 320X480?

Bunjay @ 4/28/2004 6:58:34 AM #
I thought Zire 72 was supposed to have a 320x480 screen? Now THAT would be the perfect PDA... for me...

Please don't wake me - allow me to dream on.
RE: What happened to 320X480?
Timothy Rapson @ 4/28/2004 7:36:30 AM #
I could live without the UC. I could live without a flash for the camera. I can live without 64 MB of RAM. I can live without any advance in battery life or a hot swappable battery as is common on PPCs. I can't buy anymore PDAs without virtual grafitti.

Other than the lack of soft grafitti area, this thing is as PPC as PPC gets. A microphone, Today screen, powerful multimedia, an Intel processor, an ominously too prominent reset hole, native files on the SD card, big clip and paste buffers, etc. It is all so PPC. I am not complaining. I like those features, especially for the price. If not for the lack of VG, I would be ordering one today. Well, maybe next year.

RE: What happened to 320X480?
a_nonamiss @ 4/28/2004 8:59:45 AM #
I don't understand why all these PPC people are complaining about lack of a virtual graffiti area on a 320 x 320 screen. The PPC is only 240 x 320, so you still have more pixels. In addition, none of those precious pixels are wasted in an input area.

As I said in a previous post, get some electrical tape and cover up 60 pixels on each side, then install Decuma Latin, which will takeup another 60 pixels on the bottom when you're writing, and Voila! You have a PPC!

Arthur

Palm Pilot 1000 > Palm Pilot Professional > Palm III > Palm M100 > Sony Clié PEG-T415 > Palm T|T3

RE: What happened to 320X480?
JonathanChoo @ 4/28/2004 9:06:34 AM #
Where did you hear the 320x480 rumour. I think Palm was trying to balance between giving the Z72 a 1.2MP camera or HVGA and decided that 1.2Mp is a better catch on the market. I can see already see this and the Z31 as a globetrotters PDA.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
RE: What happened to 320X480?
Timothy Rapson @ 4/28/2004 8:30:35 PM #
Some people who find grafitti II practically worthless would rather not waste 1/3 of the display area with hard grafitti. Resolution is a different issue than total display size. While I am certainly not interested in getting any PPC, it is possible to get them with VGA screens that are double the resolution of even the T3 AND you can use the whole screen for reading or picture viewing instead of just the SSS part.
Well, next year PalmOne will surely get it right.
And of course your mileage may vary. So, if you like it just as it is, help yourself. I will wait.

RE: What happened to 320X480?
alexp @ 4/29/2004 11:36:03 AM #
What people don't think about on PPC's 320x480 screen res is that, after you open up their collapsible writing area, the available screen real estate is pathetic - less, I think, than 160x160. Of course, they now have write anywhere function, so it may not matter to some.

Zire 71 Price Drop?

hartjo1 @ 4/28/2004 9:04:49 AM #
So can we expect to see a price drop in the Zire 71? I've been waiting for the 72 to come ou not because I want to buy it, but because I'm waiting for a better deal on the 71 for my wife's b-day present!

So the question is wheter or not the $250 pricepoint with the $50 rebate is as low as it's going to go, or if I can expect to see a further reduction in price?

RE: Zire 71 Price Drop?
PalmAddict @ 4/28/2004 10:19:28 AM #
Zire 71???? That was discontinued and is gone from store shelves on the west coast already. It's not even available on palmOne's website anymore. Good luck finding one. I had to pry the floor model from the dead cold hands of an Office Depot sales representative last week.


-

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." - George Gobol.

RE: Zire 71 Price Drop?
Timothy Rapson @ 4/28/2004 8:39:02 PM #
Check out Pricegrabber. I think the PalmOne $50 rebate is still good until the end of April, but that doesn't leave you much time. As late as last week Sears still had some Zire 71s for $187, $137 after rebate.

Battery life?

Strider_mt2k @ 4/28/2004 9:05:28 AM #
A self-throttling processor, and they STILL can only get 5 hours out of it?

The specs and the unit look nice, but what's the point of the new CPU if it isn't extending your battery life significantly?



RE: Battery life?
JonathanChoo @ 4/28/2004 9:09:31 AM #
With heavy bluetooth and camera use that is not bad. On my T3 if I leave the Bluetooth on all day it will take around 4 hours but if I leave it off and only uses it (through BTToggle Pro) when I need it I could get 5 hours.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630
RE: Battery life?
dona83 @ 4/28/2004 11:01:33 AM #
Use Lightspeed, that should do the trick.

www.clievideo.com

RE: Battery life?
Strider_mt2k @ 4/28/2004 3:15:12 PM #
Those ratings would be mediocre for a lesser handheld.

Compare battery life to the TH55.

RE: Battery life?
twizza @ 4/29/2004 1:01:58 AM #
Actually, the test is a bit done wrong for the type of processor that the Z72 has. For a processor that runs at a consistent speed, a battery test that uses the most resources at the same time would be a good test of battery life. On the other hand, a variable speed processor will only show it's worst performance when given the same type of test. I think that in real world applications the Z72 would fare much better becasue a person (even a power user) will not do the max things with the Z72 all of the time.

antoinerjwright.com
RE: Battery life?
Strider_mt2k @ 4/29/2004 8:19:20 AM #
That's an excellent point.

I was reading and posting a similar thought over at ClieSource.

Current battery utilities don't take into account the new variable processors.

Z71 vs Z72 ???

mgraff @ 4/28/2004 9:20:35 AM #
Hi guys - thanks for all the input on this site - I read all your comments and appreciate them!

Anyway, you can now get the 71 at RadioShack for $199, and Palm is still offering a $50 rebate, so for those on the budget $149 for a brand-new (discontinue) z71. A great deal.

NOW - is the 72 worth 2x the price??? Lets see:

Faster Processor
Better Case (imo)
More memory
Microphone
Newer OS
BlueTooth
MUCH Better camera w/ Video capability
Newer (non-discontinue) model

Very nice - sure wish it was $250 as $299 is too steep.

Sony Tj37 is nice too, with wifi (no bluetooth,) crappier camera, and no mic. About the same price.

What do you guys think???


RE: Z71 vs Z72 ???
hartjo1 @ 4/28/2004 9:32:19 AM #
Where at Radio Shack did you find the 71 for $200? I looked on the site, but found nothing. Is this a local store offer?

Between $250 and $299, I would definitely say that the 72 is worth it. But at $150 after rebate, can you really justify spending an extra $150 for the updated features?


RE: Z71 vs Z72 ???
mgraff @ 4/28/2004 10:16:42 AM #
Local store in Philadelphia had it in their display case, marked at 199.97 "clearance." It could have been just their display model, but it didn't say that. When they have them priced at the .97 cent mark, its always a clearance item.

I would call your local store - their website might not yet be adjusted. Good luck.

RE: Z71 vs Z72 ???
Timothy Rapson @ 4/28/2004 8:44:17 PM #
Great summary. I would love to pay $300 for one of these with vitual grafitti. As it is, I wouldn't buy one at all. Just not enough to make it necessary to upgrade from my Zire 71.

Ho-Hum....

palmhiker @ 4/28/2004 9:42:53 AM #
Nice improvements over the Z71, but nothing to get excited about.

Regarding Bluetooth: I really don't understand PalmOne's continued favor of Bluetooth over WiFi. Why not offer two versions, one with Bluetooth and one with WiFi (or, God forbid, both)?

Regarding the improved camera: Now, instead of small, grainy pictures, we can have large, grainy pictures...

Regarding 320x320: Shouldn't any PDA with a price tag of $300 and up have 320x480?

Going with the D-Pad is a good move, I hate the joystick on my Z71.

I still don't see PalmOne having anything to compete with Sony's TH-55. If this is all we can expect until Fall then I find these releases to be somewhat depressing.


RE: Ho-Hum....
rmfuller @ 4/28/2004 10:00:50 AM #
I must agree. I am disappointed, but as this is apparently aiming at the high-end of the mid-market, maybe those folks dont need wifi or a larger screen. And the small screen reminds me of my old Workpad (RIP).

I would love to see the T3 with wifi. My home, office, and local coffee shop are all wifi enabled. Otherwise SONY still looks to have the more useful pda at this point. Wish they would defragment the memory and pop a better processor... If I am going to drop $300+ on a pda, it better be ready to work!

RE: Ho-Hum....
whitemiata @ 4/28/2004 11:54:06 AM #
Are you out of your mind?!?!?

I just picked up my new Zire72 about an hour ago, it's charging now.

Here's how it takes a TH-55 and tosses it out the window:

E R G O N O M I C S
ergonomics
ERGOnomics
ergoNOMICS
....
I could go on.

It's got a great stylus (which is on the SIDE again, a it was in the gold days of Palm handhelds [Vx docet]) ... which was designed with such thoughtfulness that when you reinsert it you don't even have to look at how it's oriented, it re-orients itself... this while retaining an asymmetrical tail, to make it supremely easy to push it out with your fingers.

It's got an awesome layout for buttons that are HUMAN SIZED! (Immagine that!?!?! buttons that can be pressed by human fingers... what a concept)

It's got a DPAD rather than a scrollywheel.... IN THE BACK ?!?!?!?

Featurewise, it sports a significantly faster processor, a significantly superior camera, the ability to record/play video, and it doesn't deliver a crippled screen implementation (480x320 screen that can't rotate in any application? LMAO!!!)

Oh yeah, it's also noticeably cheaper.

So yeah, I agree... Ho-Hum... is exactly my thought on the TH-55

P.S. I'm not even going to mention the fact that one should pick SD over MemoryStick everyday... kill proprietary, embrace standards.

RE: Ho-Hum....
abhinay @ 4/28/2004 12:18:28 PM #
Reasons why I pick the TH...
Battery Life!
BaTtErY LiFe!!!

simple enough... not to mention dual wireless... though thats only in europe... The processor is subjective... and the camera pics look like a TH's pic interpolated... really... the quality is quite bad...

I also happen to like the Memstick a whole lot more than SD

RE: Ho-Hum....
feranick @ 4/28/2004 12:40:15 PM #
Having double wireless (BT and WiFi) and 480x320 screen would affect the battery life (not exeptional for the Z72 as it is) quite dramatically. You would need a big battery (T|C style), but you may end up with a bulky PDA.

For me, P1 made the right decision.
Nick

RE: Ho-Hum....
palmhiker @ 4/28/2004 2:08:55 PM #
whitemiata wrote: "Are you out of your mind?!?!?"

No, as I said, this model does offer some interesting enhancements for Z71 users (of which I have been one for nearly a year now), but not enough for me to upgrade.

The TH-55 is not the perfect PDA, or I would have one now. I also do not like memory stick, but ergonomically speaking - I have spent some time with it in the store and it feels very good compared to the Z71.

For $100 more, you get a beautiful 320 x 480 screen, built in WiFi, which is more important to me than Bluetooth, smarter use of processor power which results in phenomenal battery life in a Wi-Fi equipped handheld, and a flip cover.

If palmOne would simply offer a T3 with Wi-Fi instead of Bluetooth for <$400, that would be my perfect PDA - and I will stick with my reliable old Z71 until that time, or buy the TH-55 this summer when it drops to $300, ergonomics and memory shtick be damned.


RE: Ho-Hum....
mikecane @ 4/28/2004 2:38:33 PM #
>>>scrollywheel

Hah!

RE: Ho-Hum....
Konstantin @ 4/28/2004 2:51:10 PM #
Maybe its me but sound to me that palmhiker bought/or has his Zire71 just to be pissed at it. The better Zire72 appears to be over the Z71 the more palmhiker is pissed. I guess the only reason he keeps the Z71 is to love more his TH.

RE: Ho-Hum....
Konstantin @ 4/28/2004 2:55:26 PM #
Oh sorry, palmhiker does not have a TH. Well there is always the Z71 to hate and embrace.

RE: Ho-Hum....
palmhiker @ 4/28/2004 3:57:42 PM #
Konstantin Wrote: "Maybe its me but sound to me that palmhiker bought/or has his Zire71 just to be pissed at it. The better Zire72 appears to be over the Z71 the more palmhiker is pissed. I guess the only reason he keeps the Z71 is to love more his TH."

"Oh sorry, palmhiker does not have a TH. Well there is always the Z71 to hate and embrace."

I have NO idea what you are talking about.

I never said I "hated" my Z71, as a matter of fact, it is the best PDA I have owned, and my use of it in my office has sold several others on it.

Don't shoot the messenger, dude - if you think the Z72 is a significant enough upgrade to persuade you to part with $300 a year later, then go for it. I simply want a tablet Wi-Fi PDA and this ain't it, and at the moment, Palm doesn't offer one.



RE: Ho-Hum....
jm_aub @ 4/28/2004 6:07:15 PM #
Question : how does the still camera (and photos) compare on the 72 and 71 ? The 72 has a 1.2 M pixels, what about the 71 ?

Palm M100 Zire 72
RE: Ho-Hum....
mike_c @ 4/28/2004 7:38:55 PM #
"Regarding Bluetooth: I really don't understand PalmOne's continued favor of Bluetooth over WiFi."

Bluetooth offers different functionality to wi-fi, in that it is designed for discreet ad hoc networking. Much better for colaborative working wherever you happen to be. Furthermore, bluetooth enabled phones are becoming seriously popular, especially in Europe. With such a phone you can connect to the net from anywhere your mobile is usable. And the real clincher for me is no more IrDA ;)

RE: Battery Life
abhinay @ 4/28/2004 9:51:09 PM #
Fact is, the Zire 72 sucks at battery life. Check out the reviews on Infosync and so on. The TH is a breakthrough as far as Battery Life is concerned. P1 could have just learnt a few lessons from there, and given it a slower processor on which speed stepping actually makes a difference.

RE: Ho-Hum....
mikecane @ 4/29/2004 12:22:22 AM #
Yeah, but then go try some processor-intensive stuff on the HHE and you find its weak spot. For some people horsepower is more important than gas mileage.

RE: Ho-Hum....
abhinay @ 4/29/2004 3:11:38 AM #
too bad I guess. Especially when horsepower isn't bad... please... my 33Mhz OS4 device is still snappy... and mileage is exceptional. I really would hate it if I run out of battery halfway through the day of intensive use.

RE: Ho-Hum....
mikecane @ 4/30/2004 12:19:11 AM #
>>>my 33Mhz OS4 device is still snappy

At 33MHz, snappy turns to crappy when you try to play an MPEG video file!

RE: Ho-Hum....
abhinay @ 4/30/2004 5:56:29 AM #
oh well... if you're using Kinoma, its still pretty decent... not an Mpeg anyway... but hell... thats something else the clie's good at. 30FPS 320x480 sounds good enough for me... Do remember that the HHE has a separate graphics subprocessor and a DSP.

New WebPro & VersaMail on older POne Models?

hkklife @ 4/28/2004 10:13:05 AM #
Has anyone been able to confirm that the new apps on the Z72 CD will install/work on a T3 or T|C? I checked palmone.com's support site and they were mum on details other than indicating the only way to get the above is to buy a Z72. I'd gladly pay $10 to upgrade to a newer WebPro on my T3 if there were any speed or stability improvements. Same goes with VersaMail.

The C's going to start looking verrrry dated quickly if there aren't some ROM/app updates released soon for it. It'd be like asking a corporation to purchase a new P4 PC with Win 2000 on it. Still useful, yes, but not the latest & greatest.

RE: New WebPro & VersaMail on older POne Models?
Flame_On @ 5/5/2004 8:47:17 PM #
Home users... you ment to say home users.
Corporations exactly want to buy P4s with Win2000.
MS has been cryin' in thier beer over this for seasons now.
They can only wish WinXP & WinCE catch on as well as Palm.


--

Video?

rsc1000 @ 4/28/2004 11:52:38 AM #
The review said "The camera can also capture videos at up to 320x240 resolution with audio." - but there was no mention of software, or what video format/codec this uses, etc. Anybody know anything more?

RE: Video?
mikecane @ 4/28/2004 2:39:44 PM #
I'd like more info too.

Especially given the puzzling sentence in the Bargain PDA review that says Media supports "Windows Media Player format" but then cites MPEG4 and ASF! Now, if it could actually play Windows Media Video and Windows Media Audio, that'd be one hell of a thing to have!

RE: Video?
mikecane @ 4/28/2004 3:05:22 PM #
>>banging my head against the desktop<<

Hello, McFly?!!

It wasn't Bargain PDA.

It was PDA Buyers Guide.com 's review.

Thickness

I.M Anonymous @ 4/28/2004 12:30:17 PM #
Nice review! However, would it possible to see a picture comparing the thickness of the Z72 to the T|E?

How much does the camera stick out?

bobes @ 4/28/2004 2:06:46 PM #
Does anyone have a side profile pic? Will this cause problems with case makers?


RE: How much does the camera stick out?
Timothy Rapson @ 4/28/2004 8:54:07 PM #
Bargain PDA has a side view with the Zire 72 stacked on top of an Axim X3 and an Axim X5.

Macintosh Support.

statik @ 4/28/2004 2:54:37 PM #
Nobody has mentioned this, so...

Yahooo! Macintosh support is still included out of the box. After all the gloom & doom predictions of Mac support disapearing from Palms this is great to see.

Does anybody know if they updated the Mac conduits to support the new PIM features? I'm guessing no.

RE: Macintosh Support.
orca @ 4/28/2004 4:16:08 PM #
The new conduits are supported, but all features of the updated PIM apps are not available. There's a link bured somewhere on palmOne's support pages indicating exactly what capabilities are supported. (There's even one statement like, "this feature isn't supported, and it will not be added in the future.)

They have released Palm Desktop 4.2.1 for download, but I'm going to hold off until I see some reactions from other people. It looks like the desktop software included with these new Zires remaines different from what can be downloaded.

The Zire 72 could be an appealing choice for upgrading from my Palm Vx. I want to see how well it will work with MacOS X first.

Palm Vx 4.1, PowerBook G4 with MacOS X 10.3.3

Media App

JKingGrim @ 4/28/2004 3:45:55 PM #
Anyone care to elaborate? What format does it record in? What video can the media app play? Mpegs? AVIs? Do they have to be converted and put in RAM, or can they be played natively off the card?

RE: Media App
Puppy @ 4/28/2004 8:46:09 PM #
Yeah, does "Media" replace Kinoma Producer? Can you use the new software to transcode videos to be played on the Palm?

All in all, I like this pretty well. I'm pleasently surprised by the included voice recorder. I thought it was nuts that the Zire 71 didn't have one. I mean that camera is almost totally worthless, but I could use a voice recorder every day. I dislike the lack of an available cradle though. I know most PalmOS units don't include them anymore, but they could still have used the universal connector and had one available. (Sony has cradles available for all of their PDAs, event though they usually aren't included). I've had trouble with Sony's interface not charging my SJ-22 unless I jiggle it around. At least Palm's connections look like they might be more solid.

Those photo looks pretty bad

batmon @ 4/28/2004 4:50:55 PM #
Those three photos in the review looks really bad. They are fuzzy and colors are not sharp at all. If this is the case, I might as well getting a TE instead because the camera looks pretty useless...

RE: Those photo looks pretty bad
jm_aub @ 4/28/2004 6:08:11 PM #
Question : how does the still camera (and photos) compare on the 72 and 71 ? The 72 has a 1.2 M pixels, what about the 71 ?

Palm M100 Zire 72
RE: Those photo looks pretty bad
mikecane @ 4/29/2004 12:21:14 AM #
The 71 had VGA -- 480 x 640.

RE: Those photo looks pretty bad
whitemiata @ 4/29/2004 9:37:46 AM #
My personal Zire72 (bought yesterday) has a camera that produces POORER results than my personal Zire71.

I just re-read the review, and this passage sticks out:

>>The main problem with the new sensor is that colors
>>seem dimmed and washed out and certain objects will
>>tend to be fuzzy and out of focus

This in the same review that boasts the camera to be improved.

Incidentally the review didn't mention it, but at least on MY unit, and Mr T's the camera is so bad it's useless to photograph text. See the forum.

I'm hoping this is a beginning of production issue. Aside from this, the PDA is phenomenal.

Alessandro

RE: Those photo looks pretty bad
batmon @ 4/29/2004 3:17:50 PM #
That's sad to hear. They should use a better CCD or better lense for it. Higher pixels does not help if the qualities are bad, I mean you don't need 1.2M to have your friend's head shown in the address book. I think I will keep my m505 and get a Panasonic D-Snap AV10, swap the SD card in between as I need it.



RE: Those photo looks pretty bad
Timothy Rapson @ 4/29/2004 9:00:46 PM #
In a pinch I used my old Clie NR70V camera (at 320 by 240 maximum res) to capture text from newspaper articles. I have not tried it with my Zire 71, but I was greatly hoping I could capture whole articles for later reading. If the Zire 72 camera really was 1024 by 760 capture resolution, I could have captured 9 paragraphs at a time instead of 1.

I find the pictures from my Zire 71 with a claimed 640 by 480 no better than those from my much lower res Clie. I suspect the high res claims are from interpolating. IF that is the case basically, they are lying about the true capture quality. Standard industry practice, though I'm afraid.

But, disappointing.

RE: Those photo looks pretty bad
JonathanChoo @ 4/29/2004 9:40:37 PM #
The Z72 uses a CMOS sensor which generally are poorer in quality than CCD sensors (which the Z71 apparently uses although I am not sure). CMOS takes less space, cheaper to produce and uses less power than CCD sensors. It is possible the Z71 has a CMOS sensor but also has built-in post-processing chips to compensate for the lack of quality. Palm probably did not build in those extra curcuits because of the higher resolution.

Judging by the photographs, there are far higher noise distortions, which is common for CMOS sensors no matter how high the native resolution is.

I guess we need to have someone crack open their Z71 and Z72 and note the sensor's chip ID.

--
Psion 5> Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > T/T > HP h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac 75 > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630

Zire 72 is a commodity item - don't expect superior quality
;-( @ 4/30/2004 10:32:55 AM #
The Z72 uses a CMOS sensor which generally are poorer in quality than CCD sensors

CMOS can actually deliver performance as good as CCD if the chip is designed properly. (As Canon is showing in their latest cameras.) Palm simply is specing their PDAs with low quality components in an effort to inlude a lot of features that can be advertised to consumers. If you want better quality these days, you'll have to look to Sony or Tapwave.

It's massive. Massive.

Re: Zire 72 is a commodity item - don't expect superior qual
viqsi @ 5/1/2004 10:11:59 PM #
...um, isn't Sony the one who's been continuously stuffing More More More into its PDAs for a few years now? Given that Clies are the only Palms I've ever been exposed to that have crashed frequently, repeatedly and consistently, I hesitate to think of them as high quality.

("Hesitate", hell, I had to stop myself from laughing out loud...)

Whether or not Palm's camera stuff is high quality can be debated. But Sony as a shining alternative? Please.

Zire 72 is a commodity item - don't expect superior quality
;-o @ 5/2/2004 2:44:18 AM #
Given that Clies are the only Palms I've ever been exposed to that have crashed frequently, repeatedly and consistently, I hesitate to think of them as high quality.

("Hesitate", hell, I had to stop myself from laughing out loud...)

Whether or not Palm's camera stuff is high quality can be debated. But Sony as a shining alternative? Please.

Most people that know anything about Palms would disagree with your claim.

Pick up a CLIE (or Tapwave)and then pick up a Palm. Which one is solidly constructed? Which one feels like is was made of bargain basement parts? Even more telling: pick up a one year old CLIE and compare it to a one year old Palm. I rest my case.

Video example

apapitrat @ 4/29/2004 7:53:58 AM #
Hello all... could someone be kind enought to post somewhere (here or a personnal website) an example of a video taken with the Zire 72? Thanks in advance.
RE: Video example
mgraff @ 4/29/2004 11:42:09 AM #
LOL - Now you're asking for trouble. :)

RE: Video example
sgingras @ 4/29/2004 12:09:13 PM #
Here ya go:

[code]


.' '.' `.
_.-| o | o |-._
.~ `.__.'.__.'^ ~.
.~ ^ / \ ^ ~.
\-._^ ^| | ^_.-/
`\ `-._ \___/ ^_.-' /'
`\_ `--...--' /'
`-.._______..-' /\ / __/ \__ | |/ /_
.'^ ^ `. .' `__ .' ^ ^ `.__.'^ .\ .' ^ . ^ . ^ .' \/
/ / ^ \'.__.'
| ^ /| ^ |
\ \|^ ^ |
`\^ | ^ |
`~| ^ |
| ^ ^ |
\^ /
`. ^ .'
: ^ ;
.-~~~~~~ | ^ ~~~~~~-.
/ ^ ^ | ^ \^ ^ / \ ^ ^ /
`~~~~~~~~' `~~~~~~~~~'

[/code]

RE: Video example
Timothy Rapson @ 4/29/2004 9:07:45 PM #
The Brighthand review has some examples of video capture added by the editor. You have to follow the thread to the discussion and link to them. I could not get them to display so his band width may be gone or I may not have fast enough connection. Check it out.

Zire 72

tooele @ 4/29/2004 3:27:42 PM #
I think the Zire 72 has just about everything you could want in a palm except WI-FI and it doesn't have a universal connector. Those aren't problems though unless you have a snap on keyboard. You can also buy a WI-FI SDIO card from sandisk. The other thing I think is stuipid is that sony has had a palm with a 2 megapixel camera for a long time and palm is just barely coming out with a 1.2 megapixel. Why is palm so slow? Other than those reasons it comes close to being as good as the TT3 which is still my favorite palm.

I gotta ask

Spell @ 4/29/2004 3:42:59 PM #
Ok, first a confession: I'm happy with my Zire 71, so, no, I'm not a rabid power user. However, I work in the technology field, use my PDA regularly, and I usually have access to all sorts of fun toys.

Now the question: Am I somehow floating through life like Mr. Magoo? How is it I have never actually owned, used, or been around the very Bluetooth that PalmOne seems to think is so prevalent as to build it into the latest "consumer" model?

I'm just confused as to where the Bluetooth might be hiding, or if PalmOne is that far off about what everyone's using? Personally, I've got wireless out the ying-yang, but none of it is Bluetooth. Huh.

I'm not complaining, doubting the usefulness of Bluetooth to those who use it or otherwise kvetching. I'm simply curious as to how either PalmOne or I have missed a very large, very blue boat.

RE: I gotta ask
palmhiker @ 4/29/2004 4:32:28 PM #
You're not alone. I believe that Palm bought into the early hype of Bluetooth, and they can't seem to admit that it has not been the holy grail that many thought it would be.

I personally use Wi-Fi a lot at home and at work, and I know at least 8 other people who use Wi-Fi regularly. Other than the many fine folks on this web site who do make use of Bluetooth, I personally do not know of anyone else who does, be it co workers, friends, etc.

There continues to be a lack of Bluetooth-enabled devices available in the U.S. - AT&T, for example, only sells one or two models of BT phones in my area, and they are costly.

When the 30 mile Wi-Fi service becomes a standard in a few years, all of this will be a moot point, and most PDA's, cell phones and other devices will support it, and you will have very inexpensive voice and data access just about anywhere - and this scares the bejeebus out of the cell phone companies who have spent billions on their TDMA and CDMA infrastructures.

RE: I gotta ask
Altema @ 4/29/2004 4:52:17 PM #
You must be speaking of Wi-Max, I presume. That will be the day, and I'm looking forward to it very much. Till then I'm still in the world of Wi-Fi and BT. I would have thought that, being a network engineer who works on designing Wi-Fi networks, I'd be Wi-Fi crazy. Well, I use it a lot more than this time last year, but not as much as BT. I guess anyone's perspective on BT depends on if they decide to leverage the technology... as it does little good to be holding a can and string, with no can on the other end!

Deciding to compliment my Wi-Fi access with a BT handheld, phone, headset, and laptop has been a blast. Data access anywhere any time 24x7 (preferrably nights and weekends though ;). I'm seriously thinking about making the Z72 a present for at least one of the kids so we can do network games like RifleSlugs, Monopoly, and Warfare Inc. while the younger kids drift off to sleep. Being able to silently chat with my wife from another floor of the house, or surfing for hours on the weekend are an added plus. 802.11b is ok, until it gets replaced by 802.11g and 802.16.

RE: I gotta ask
dona83 @ 4/30/2004 4:35:46 AM #
We got WiFi-Max service in the suburban city of Richmond BC (of Vancouver, BC), provided by Fido. $20 a month for the first 6 months, $40 a month after that. I don't know what the speeds are but should be just as good or even better (so they say) than Cable Modem. Why they would choose Richmond first is beyond me, that city's gonna sink to the ocean once we get an earthquake, but it's nice to have such technology in our region already. They got similar service in some city in Ontario, in the Toronto area. Damn I hope they don't miss the city centres in favour of the 'burbs.

A good handheld BUT...

vesther @ 4/29/2004 10:37:26 PM #
The abscence of the Universal Connector leaves me no choice but to stay away from this one. Unless PalmOne can get a Zire Handheld with a Universal Connector, I will continue to buy Tungstens instead.

A Palm-Powered Handheld is the bread and butter for many people. Without a Palm-Powered Handheld, your progress is all for naught.
RE: A good handheld BUT...
Spell @ 4/30/2004 9:28:10 AM #
You probably know this, but the Zire 71 has a UC. (Or should that be "had" seeing as it's now passe'?)

Headphones w/ 72

dona83 @ 5/4/2004 12:31:24 AM #
Compared to the Tungsten T, is the Zire 72 louder when using headphones? That was one of T|T's weak points and I hope that PalmOne improved on it.

RE: Headphones w/ 72
Bakedon21 @ 5/4/2004 11:18:28 PM #
They seem about 20% less than a T3, but 100% louder than a TT.

Reluctant Buttons

Bakedon21 @ 5/4/2004 11:16:01 PM #
Anyone have a problem with the buttons? Especially the center D-pad one. Sometimes they respond first try and sometimes not. It seems to be software because when they work, they work fine. Its about 50/50 chance of them not responding.

worth it???

Firesa_2003 @ 5/5/2004 8:20:14 AM #
HI THERE,

I JUST WANT TO FIND OUT IF THE "ZIRE 71" OR THE "ZIRE 72" IS THE WAY TO GOT??? AND HOW IS THE MEMORY, HOW MANY PHOTOS CAN ACTUALLY BE STORED ON EITHER OF THE "PALMS" AND ON AVERAGE WHAT DO YOU PAY FOR ABOUT 128MB CARD.........???
256MB CARD.........???

THANKS.

Microphone on Zire 72

Plogger @ 5/10/2004 1:44:20 PM #
Since the microphone is located at the back, does it record well when the unit is placed face up on a table?

Has anyone tested from how far it can capture a decent conversation this way?

Tks

ZIRE 72 help

trinitycross @ 5/27/2004 9:57:04 AM #
I just bought a Zire 72 and am having serious compatibility issues with my OS (Win XP Pro). I was wondering if anyone has a compatible USB inf file, as the one the CD that came with my zire refuses to install correctly on my system. I bought the zire two days ago and I have yet to perform a working hot synch. Anyone interested in helping out, you can find the screencap of the Device Manager here:
http://trinitycross.net/screencap.jpg

I've already contacted the tech support at palmone.com, but so far no one has been able to give me advice that actually works. (The emails I've received and sent have added up to 9 so far...) I've so far reinstalled, double-checked my ports, settings, etc. but with no luck.

My email is trinity_cross@yahoo.com


---------

www.trinitycross.net

Stay away from Zire 72!

Chris77 @ 5/28/2004 12:35:27 PM #
Hi,
I've had one for 10 days now and it's going back to amazoon tomorrow(I paid 269,-Euro with shippment), because this device just hasn't been what I expected it to be. I'll go back to my Zire 71, which has never dissappopinted me. But here my knock-outs for the Zire 72:

1. BATTERY-Life: simply inacceptable. I work as a physichian and use my pda daily using a lot of medical programs and PIM on it. I also use it for taking pictures of patients,etc. for which the quality of the old zire 71 has been quite OK for me. I use it for new games like warfare as well. My old Zire 71 would never let me down on that issue. I could easily use it 1 week before recharging. I never had to worry about battery. But with the Zire 72 I had to relaod almost every other day. Especially the Cam-App seems to draw extremly much power, so that I would always have to look, after taking some pictures, how good the battery is. I would even hold myself back from taking some pictures because I had feard running low on batt. And running games of course would drain a lot of power.

Well I heard a lot of people say, that this is OK, because with so much features You cant expect battery life to be long, and that if using only PIM it runs as long as the Z71. IMHO these people are wrong. I mean why should I trade my z71 away for a z72 if not for the new features? If I only want to use PIM I can stick with my Z71 or even a Z31. What I expect is that I am able to use the Z72 and all its features in a "fire-and forget" way as I could with its previous model, and not having to worry about battery-life anytime I take picture or play a game for 10minutes. Anything else IMHO is a step back.

2. Camera-Performance is totally inacceptable. Even leaving out the bad quality, this camera isn't able to serve at least as a fun-pics-maker. Why? Very simple: Everything but daylight makes any picture useless. In-room pics? Forget it. You'll be busy for at least 5 minutes with the cam-settings, before You can even see something on the pics. The Z71 makes really crappy pictures in matters of res./sharpness/colours, BUT it serves greatly as a fun-cam, because You can use it under almost any light-condition. No Settings neede, You just slide it open, aim, push the butten, wait for 2 sec. and that's it. With the Z72 you have to watch so many things for taking a reasonable pic, that it is more bothering then fun, so after a few days I ended up using it at all--->I spent money on a cam-feature that I hate to use.

3. Ergonomics: Well, a lot of people think the design is far superior than to the zire71s. I dont think so. First of all I was bothered that there's no cover for the lens and no extra-button for the cam. In think the z71s design in terms of cam-usage is far superior. You just slide it open and can take pics. On the Z72 they gave away one of the 4 main app-buttons for the cam, which only gives you 3 buttons for your favourite apps. Thats to little for me. And if I reassign the buttons, I dont have one for the cam, which rsults in almost never using the cam, because it take me too long to start the app via OS. I also used the original hard case for the Z72. The only pos. side on that ist, that you have a slider for the cam. Everything else sucks. Why? Because they made it way too big(Z72 with palm-hardcase is bigger than Z71 with brando-hardcase!), they left the upper side totally open, so no protection on that side, they put the SD-Storage underneath the device instead of integrating it in the casecover, so you have to take out the pda anytime you want to access the sd-cards and the ultimate KO for that hardcase: they didn't leave an opening for the voice-recording-button, which makes it literally useless, because you have to take out the whole pda, anytime you want to record something. BUT: If you want to have a Z72(which I dont hope, after what I wrote), You have to get the hardcase, since it is the only on the market so far and without it the cam will get trashed in short time, thats for sure. Using the shipped case will make the pda even bigger than with the hardcase.

4. No Cradle available: I dont care if theres UC or not, but there has to be at least an optional Cradle. When I get Home I want to just put my pda on it and thats it. I hate pulling out ugly cables and sticking them in and out. That surely is comfort I am asking for, but for a price of 280 I can expect palm to have this at least as an option.

OK, thats it about the Zire72, it'll be gone tomorrow, and I am glad I didn't sell my Z71 yet :-)
I'll give it away, when there is palm-OS PDA on the market with the size+weight of a z71, with BT and WiFi build in, with the batt-life of a th-55 and selling not more then 300.
Anything else wont make it

BTW: I only put up my personel knockouts for this device. Of course there also really, really nice sides to it, which I would like on my Z71(and which made me order the Z72 in first place). All of that has been well explained and showed on the review and some other posts, I think. But for me the negative sides just outscored the good ones, because for me relaibility and intuitive usage and comfort always come in first place for a pda, at least for one that sells for 280Dollars.

Regards
Chris

Where's the CRADLE!?

DigitalMonkey @ 6/14/2004 2:08:06 PM #
I don't mind the Universal connector being gone, but no cradle? Are they CRAZY! Either Palm needs to design one quickly and rush it out to market or some third party company would do well making one. A palm at the desktop without a cradle to charge it is simply insane. It really is unacceptable to plug-in a charging cable and lie the palm flat on the desk. Bluetooth was suppose to help get rid of wires. With no cradle I'm left with an ugly wire dangling on my desk. C'mon Palm get a clue!

RE: Where's the CRADLE!?
lorenolson @ 7/18/2004 4:56:03 PM #
As far as I can remember Palm has not had a cradle in a while. And I doubt they will have again. One of those cost moves I gather.

can't transfer SD card files to Mac 10.3.4

jacksonoreilly @ 8/3/2004 1:59:36 PM #
Tried Mark Space Missing Sync (for Palm OS) v2.x & the just released M Sync v. 4.0 -- neither work. I have to have a way to transfer photo and video and voice files from SD Card on Zire 72 to Mac OS 10.3.4.

Note that I communicated daily with Mark Space support for 3 weeks every day and they could not solve problem and finally just gave my $ back.

Does anybody know a method or software that will allow transfer of files from Zire 72 to Mac OS 10.3.4?

thank you!

jacksonoreilly@yahoo.com

There's always bluetooth
pkuhns @ 9/22/2004 10:42:41 AM #
have you looked into getting a bluetooth USB dongle for your mac? You can transfer files between the Zire and the Mac using ZLauncher or Resco Explorer or other file manager programs.

Nokia 3650 bluetooth magnate

some questions

sez @ 4/11/2005 5:58:28 AM #
1) what memory cards can be used with the Zire 72 for storing videos (taken with the handset), pictures (taken with the handset), and mp3, mpeg4 ?
2) is there any limit in taking videos with the handset (only * seconds / only * mb) ?
3) how much space requiers a minute of video made with the handset ?
4) in order to get something from the PC to the memory card, do you have to get a card reader or can the transfer be made trough the handset (while the memory is inserted) ?
5) is there a maximum memory card has to be ?

PS: are any of the next cards compatible with Zire 72:
1- TwinMos Multimedia Card 1GB
2- Viking Secure Digital Card 1GB
3- Viking Compact Flash Card 512MB
4- TwinMos Compact Flash Card 512MB Ultra-X (70x)
(i guess that the size of memory isn't important, but the form factor (mmc, cf, sd) is)

hope somebody can answer me these questions

RE: some questions
sez @ 4/11/2005 6:12:17 AM #
oh, and i forgot something:
whatever is the compatibile card memory, can it store both videos, pictures taken with the handset, and mp3 and mpeg4 downloaded from the PC ? or do i have to buy a special card for everyone of these ?

RE: some questions
hkklife @ 4/11/2005 9:18:22 AM #
1) Any brand of SD or MMC memory card should, in theory, work flawlessly. I've never had a problem with any brand or type of SD/MMC on a Palm device other than the earlier Sandisk cards (in the old red & blue packaging). All current Sandisk cards seem to be totally fine.

2) I think you're limited only by the amount of storage space on your storage card but I'm not 100% positive. I can check on this for you and reply here later. I know the videos DO permit simultaneous sound & video recording, if that helps any. Voice Recorder files are limited only by the free space on your card.

3) Again, I'll have to check on that for you. I am guessing ~3mb, give or take.


4) By default, no you cannot use the card in the Zire by itself. You'd need a program like CardExport to achieve that. But in all honesty, it's still far faster & easier to just go ahead and use a SD card drive to dump files onto the card. For transferring pictures & programs, regular Palm Hotsync is fine. However, for video or MP3 transfer, you'll definitely want a card reader drive. Any cheap external USB one will suffice.

5) Not sure I follow this question exactly. I know that 512mb and 1gb cards from nearly all companies work on all Palm devices. There are 2gb cards hitting the market now but I don't know of anyone who has one nor if they are guaranteed to work in PalmOne devices.

All of the cards you mention below SHOULD be compatible. I'd personally go with Viking or Lexar---good brands for the money with warranty support etc.
Definitely spend the extra to get a 1gb SD card, as mp3s and video recording on the Z72 will quickly consume your storage space. Oh one thing-avoid any cards you see that are 1.2 or 1.5gb. They seem to give problems more than the "stanrdard" size cards (128, 256, 512, 1gb, 2gb etc) in some digital cameras I've read about online and I would imagine that a POS product might have issues with an odd-sized card too.

Good luck!

Is Palmone Going Bankrupt?

danlinks @ 5/24/2005 11:42:52 AM #
Has anyone had problems with getting Palmone help? I have returned my Palmone Zire 72 twice so far, with the first time them not fixing one of the issues, and the second time not fixing the problem at all. Each time I have to pay for my own shipping. They now request that I send it in a THIRD TIME! I even called their corporate office explaining the issues, and their only response is that I need to give them a credit card number (for their protection, not mine) so that they can send me ANOTHER REFURBISHED Zire 72. I have asked for a refund which they have strongly refused, saying that it is not their policy to do that EVER. It sure looks like they are in financial trouble. Here are the problems that I have had so far:

1) Coating coming off in multiple locations even though it is in a protective case - They fixed this and it seems to have worked.
2) Due to a known flaw in the unit, not being able to set a passcode without it locking up and having to constantly be reset. This was not fixed when it was sent in, and they didn't tell me of a software fix to the unit until I had made MULTIPLE calls to them. Haven't tried this yet, I am feed up and don't use the unit now.
3) This is my 3 or 4th palm (had a Palm pilot, and a Palm III, and a Palm IIIXE?) Normal writing use causes slight scratching of the screen in the text box. This no longer works correctly, I sent it in, and THEY DID NOTHING!?! I had another Palm user (my son try it, and he got the same results, all kinds of misc characters showing up on the screen rather than the normal letters. My work provided Dell AXIM works ALOT BETTER!


Language Problem

Rolativity @ 10/15/2007 7:42:17 AM #
My uncle (from belgium) gave me the Zire™ 72 Handhelds version of Palm series. But there is a minor problem. The software language is French. Appearently, i have no idea about that language. i wanna update it to English or turkish (if possible) with a updater tool kit (if exist) or with something like that!!!!

anyone help me!!!!!!!!!!

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