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Comments on: How palmOne Re-Made Its Brand Image

There is an interesting overview and marketing case study, about how palmOne went about remaking its brand image and created the Zire and Tungsten sub-brands in the midst of the spinoff.
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Interesting stat

mikecane @ 6/8/2004 11:18:06 AM #
"People look at their Palms an average of 14 times a day."

Note that's the *average*.

RE: Interesting stat
EdH @ 6/8/2004 4:54:08 PM #
> "People look at their Palms an average of 14 times a day."

> Note that's the *average*.

Yeah. It said average. That means some look at it more, and some look at it less, but if you added it all up and divided by the number of people in the statistical pool, you'd get the *average*.

Which I think is what the article said. Or did I say that already. I think the word "average" has appeared in this sub-thread an average of 4 times per post, including quotes.



RE: Interesting stat
mikecane @ 6/10/2004 8:15:24 AM #
And yours was an average post.

"IT" did this too

mikecane @ 6/8/2004 11:20:00 AM #
Quoting from the article:

The shows also let employees know how it important it was that the information remained close to the vest. But to be sure, Murray's team provided a smokescreen, because dozens of Web sites were speculating on the company's next product.

"We registered a wide range of names and not all of them were real," he says. "The people who sit and look at every registration filing had different names to look at: Zire and Zeld and Skiff. They didn't know which to go with. Tossing confusion into the mix was good."

-- Dean Kamen registered a bunch of different names too. "Segway" surprised everyone.


RE:
palmhiker @ 6/8/2004 3:54:09 PM #
"Skiff" ?

Now there is a name to take over the market with...

Zeld? Who cares!!
Patrick @ 6/9/2004 1:20:16 PM #
In my marketing naivete, I can't for the life of me figure out how it helped palmOne to have bogus names like Zeld in the rumour mill. Who cares what the names are going to be? They're not part of your image until there's something (i.e., an available model) that represents them, no?


RE:
palmhiker @ 6/10/2004 2:25:44 PM #
If it gets a few thousand people talking about a company, then it is worth it to do this sort of thing.

Look at this entire story/thread - really rather pointless, in my opinion...

Elements...

Winter_ @ 6/8/2004 11:45:28 AM #
"Not only is Tungsten an element," Murray says, "it also has a cool connotation..."

I'd like to know if there was any particular reason for Cobalt...

(...the bomb? ;)

Whatever Happened to VELD?

LiveFaith @ 6/8/2004 12:18:30 PM #
Was the Veld sub-brand supposed to be the "smart-fone" wing of the PalmOne world, superceded only by the purchase of HS which procured the excellent Treo name? Interestingly Treo fits really well in look and sound to Tungsten and Zire.

As a reformed conspiracy-theorist who falls off the wagon from time to time, I wonder how much of the "merger" was pre-planned?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: Whatever Happened to VELD?
gfunkmagic @ 6/8/2004 2:01:42 PM #
According to the article, I gather "Veld" was just another fake name to throw off and confuse speculators...

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Whatever Happened to VELD?
LiveFaith @ 6/8/2004 5:55:19 PM #
Gfunk,
I guess it worked.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

Not just palmOne.

viqsi @ 6/8/2004 2:50:42 PM #
PalmSource has arguably done the same thing. Except that they're doing "Garnet" and "Cobalt" instead of "Zire" and "Tungsten".

Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing

Gekko @ 6/8/2004 4:18:59 PM #
This is TECHNOLOGY. This is NOT Coke or Pepsi or McDonald's or Burger King. While I agree that branding for a consumer company is somewhat important, you better damn well also be innovating and delivering value to your customers better than your competitors or you will die. Branding alone will not save you.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
Lucky Bob @ 6/8/2004 5:02:41 PM #
It's kind of sad when a company starts sacrificing quality for a "cool" name.

(Why do some people say you can kill two birds with one stone when it's hard enough killing one bird with two stones?)
RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
elo @ 6/8/2004 5:08:34 PM #
Hmmm. For me, it's all about the name.

elo

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
futureT4user @ 6/8/2004 5:26:28 PM #
Wow if nothing else clued us into the fact that Palm is circling the toilet this sure does. It took 12 focus groups to figure out which of 17 names to apply to the consumer and professional brands, incredible. You'd think that waste of time and resources would be a case study in what not to waste the share holders money on.

As for the notion that the merger was pre-conceived. I fully buy that one, why else would Palm and Handspring have stayed out of each others way and Handspring drop out of the $149 organizer market which they used to sell a significant number of devices and move into the smartphone market while Palm steps in with the m1xx line then Zire line with sub $100 devices.

Now the Zire line has $300 devices with high density, cameras, SD slot so it seems the money and effort spent to distinguish these "brands" was probably wasted because they are confusing the market again.

I do agree though, it's getting simpler for consumers to choose now, they can't get confused by a Handspring Visor, Prism, Edge, Clie NX, Clie UX, Clie TH, Clie SJ, Clie TG, Palm M100, Palm M105, Palm M515, Palm M500, Tungsten T. Now they have just Treo 600, Zire 21, Zire 72, Tungsten T3, Tungsten E, Tungsten C. I suspect it will get reduced a little further when the Tungsten E gets killed off which I suspect is in the works.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
statik @ 6/8/2004 5:41:00 PM #
A good name has a lot to do with the marketability of a product. "Palm" had become too common. Try doing a search for "Palm" on e-bay. You'll wind up displaying every Palm, Sony, Dell and HP branded PDA on e-bay.

Compare that to the E-bay results that you get if you search for Zire, Tungsten or Clie.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
Palm Cow @ 6/8/2004 5:58:30 PM #
I dunno, I got this searching for Tungsten!

Good point though...pretty good...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30082&item=3819309467&rd=1

-------------------------------------------
Chess or Chyes
Palm Cow loves it.
CHYES! kevin707s@mchsi.com

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
Rome @ 6/8/2004 9:48:06 PM #
It takes more than just "cool" and/or "advanced" technologies to have a successful business. We don't need to look too far back to realize the importance of marketing. Apple may have pioneered the PC, but it is Microsoft who won the war with "inferior" products and technology.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
RhinoSteve @ 6/8/2004 11:22:05 PM #
You are right you need both. You want to see a stinker of a company with too much technology and no good imaging, you don't have far to go.

TRG / HandEra is a perfect example of engineers with no art understanding running the show too much. The product were wonderful but they still kept the old Palm III case. No matter what they did on the inside, it wasn't communicated to the end user with a new injection mold design. If they just laid of one engineer and put some decent Industrial Design, they would still be shipping to this day.

And yes, you can have good ID without turning into a bunch of art flakes. The best ID people know both sides of the street. Remember that color TRG unit? Gawd! I swear that was designed in MS Paint by someone that last had an art course in middle school.


-- Passive Agressive types need not apply.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
ackmondual @ 6/9/2004 12:29:52 AM #
Give the consumers what they want. The thing with consumer electronics is that it's unfortunately moreso catered for the "Lowest Common Denominator" rather than group of loyal users or high end tech geeks. I still think the Zire orig and Zire 21 r pretty bad overall. I'd rather go back to a Handspring Visor Neo than use that. Heck, I'd rebuy it if I had to (and could).

But that didn't stop it from selling alot (... somehow). It may not be perfect, but if it gets the job done, ppl 'll be happy for the most part, and business is done. But heck, it doesn't hurt to have good marketing either. Coca Cola was able to become a huge success by marketing the hell out of their sugar water.

[signature0]the secret to enjoying your job is to have a hobby that's even worse[/signature0]
[signature1]My PDAs: Visor --> Visor Neo (blue) --> Zire 71.... so ends the "marathon", for now[/signature1]

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
mikecane @ 6/9/2004 10:20:27 AM #
>>>Wow if nothing else clued us into the fact that Palm is circling the toilet this sure does. It took 12 focus groups to figure out which of 17 names to apply to the consumer and professional brands, incredible. You'd think that waste of time and resources would be a case study in what not to waste the share holders money on.

Have you ever worked in REAL Corporate America? This is the norm. People rant about "government waste" -- when CORPORATE waste is the same. We are a wasteful species, period.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
samagonistes @ 6/10/2004 1:15:40 AM #
Mike Cane wrote:

"Have you ever worked in REAL Corporate America? This is the norm. People rant about "government waste" -- when CORPORATE waste is the same. We are a wasteful species, period."

And you have? I find this EXTREMELY hard to believe. Let me guess, you were (are?):
- Hired during the dot.com bubble when they hired anyone with a pulse
- An ex-Enron executive
- An SEC investigator who secretly disguises himself as PDA geek, pestering the local Best Buy employee to try out all the latest offerings (but never buying anything)

Give me a break. If you REALLY knew a fraction of the things you THINK you know, then maybe, just maybe, you'd realize how ludicrous your arguments are.

By comparing the inefficiencies of the government with corporate america you have definitively demonstrating how deep your head is up your A$$.

Here is some basic knowledge: if a corporation is inefficient, it dies or gets taken over by other corporations--ultimately forcing them to be as efficient (and profitable) as possible. If a government is inefficient, guess what you're stuck with it. Now before you reply with some retarded, high-school-government-class-knowledge, just because you elect a new president ever 4 years, does not mean that the main players change. (noam chomsky and bob woodward--among many--have some really insightful information on how government works).

Yes, there are inefficiencies within each, but corporations have these as a by-product of changing economies; whereas, the government's are an indicator of inertia. Case in point, go to a FedEx office and the U.S. post office to send a package. Which one will you get out of faster, and have greater confidence that your package with arrive on time? If FedEx was as inefficient or wasteful as indicated in your blanket indictment of corporations, then they would be replaced by someone else who can do it cheaper, quicker and better.

Of course, Mike, you could really be an employee of a corporation, and if so, could it be that you are that organization's WASTE?

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
mikecane @ 6/10/2004 8:13:56 AM #
Is this your latest handle, Sphincterface?

>>> Member Since: 6/10/2004

Who gives a flying eff what YOU think. It's clear you'll never see the outside of your padded cell.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
Token User @ 6/10/2004 9:09:39 AM #
Here is some basic knowledge: if a corporation is inefficient, it dies or gets taken over by other corporations--ultimately forcing them to be as efficient (and profitable) as possible. If a government is inefficient, guess what you're stuck with it.

.... unless your a corporation that is supported (bailed out) by the government. Airlines, automotive industry, and agriculture - all industries supported by governmetn subsidies that would be (mostly - there are always exceptions) bankrupt without help. Everyone bitches about the lack of service on Southwest Airlines - but they are a profitable airline.

If a government is inefficient, the only chance to change it (in a dmocratic society) is by voting. What are the stats? Less than 60% of Americans vote? No matter if you vote for a donkey or an elephant, robbing Peter to pay Paul doesn't make anyone more efficient.

No matter how efficient you are, in a corporate world you might have the worlds greatest widget, but if noone is buying, you are going to wither and die.

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
mikecane @ 6/10/2004 9:18:19 AM #
Don't dignify the creep with replies that:

1) Are rational
2) Are well-mannered
3) Take him seriously

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
mikecane @ 6/10/2004 11:15:32 AM #
>>>I am not this face person to whom you vehemently think that I am

No, you just happen to COINCIDENTALLY be another sicko stalking me. Right. Just joined TODAY and yet you know the ENTIRE HISTORY of my posts here. Right. Hold your breath and die. Perform a service for us all.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
Token User @ 6/10/2004 11:51:39 AM #
Don't dignify the creep with replies that:

1) Are rational
2) Are well-mannered
3) Take him seriously

Mike, the only way to get a rational "discussion" is by being rational yourself. I try to present my points of view without resorting to name calling (setting up a "straw man" by slandering the opponent is a well know tactic - discredit the argument by discrediting the author). We are all faceless here - despite my handle, clicking on my profile reveals my real name. Much easier to take someone seriously that is not hiding behind anonymity.

I don't agree with everything you say, but thats the nature of the internet. If I don't agree, I'll post a counter argument - thats the nature of debate and discussion.

Ignore the trolls - reacting the way you do makes you an easy target.

~ "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed." - DV ~

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
Gekko @ 6/10/2004 11:57:27 AM #
RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
mikecane @ 6/10/2004 12:10:33 PM #
Wonderful link, Gekko.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
Gekko @ 6/10/2004 12:13:45 PM #

Glad you enjoyed it, Cliff.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
mikecane @ 6/10/2004 12:59:38 PM #
I can count on you, Dull PPC Shillboy.

RE: Start Innovating, Stop BS-ing
e_tellurian @ 6/10/2004 2:21:09 PM #
The purpose in a globe with so many people is the reality that many are needed to innovate successfully.

Innovating for longevity (an industry) is people driven. Just ask Ford, the Wright Brothers, RF, Bell, and Ballard and all the ship builders of the past.

Our managers of democracy (politicians) are wanted to assure choices a choice not "the" choice.

The above is only "BS" when we forget the people that finance such choices. All people create and give innovation value.

E-T

e-tellurian

completing the e-com circle with a people driven we-com solution

Facey... stop trollin', start deliverin'
Winter_ @ 6/11/2004 5:28:59 AM #
Hey, Facey, now that you're here trolling again, what happened to those BT OS5 drivers you predicted? Did you finally mail Mr. Mace? Because looks like Mr. Combee does not know anything about those drivers. And summer is approaching...

... and I still don't know what exactly would have to happen for you to accept that all you said was "untrue".

(and right now that useless PalmOne knowledge base insists on the no-existence theory :)

Very very sad.
Strider_mt2k @ 6/13/2004 10:09:11 AM #
One thing we can always count on around here is the countering of opinions and information with childish name calling.

The bickering, while usually annoying, at least has some entertainment value. and carries a little information.


Watching someone just give up and start hurling insults is the verbal equivalent of watching that news chopper go down a few weeks ago.


Palm: Put QUALITY first, then worry about branding.

;-(( @ 6/9/2004 10:07:21 PM #
This isn't the go-go dot com 90's anymore. Sales to impulse buyers will likely be the first victims of the hyped takeover by smartphones, so Palm needs to be catering to: (1) enterprise customers and (2) faithful current Palm users (in that order). These groups will still buy Palms even if they carry brand names like Snot and Puke. But they won't remain faithful if their devices self destruct after a few months. Palm needs to get their priorities straight and cut out the touchy-feely nonsense. Somehow current management still doesn't seem to "get it" and it's starting to look like it will only be a matter of time before Palm gets "Netscaped".

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