Comments on: Q&A with David Nagel

Yes Aaron - get back to programming - finish off and release Freedom (Liberty for OS 5)... ;-)

actually, it all works as it should (yay) - but, since we are in a slight little twist with laywers regarding the product it has been delayed. poor mike, being a citizen of the USA is getting hassled by the big-N laywers.

i guess its time to move it overseas - it will take a while to get the legals all sorted out; but, never fear - it isn't very far away! you may even expect atari retro ][ soon! :)

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Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

The desktop computer market is a great example of single player dominance. Microsoft, Apple, Unix, and Linux do not each have 25% of the market. MS dominates with a 90 something lead over the others.

It all boils down to compatability. Until Palm OS and PPC are 100% compatble, they are still two competing platforms. When this compatability is achieved, which I think is inevitable due to the similarities in the hardware, then it will be various device makers competing with eachother over hardware.

Sharp Wizard-->Handspring Visor "Deluxe"-->Sony Clie SJ30-->Palm Tungsten T3 w/ SE T68i

in reply:

Most often we talk about numbers because the press asks (that's what happened in this case; check the interview). We also talk about this stuff at developer conferences, because a lot of developers ask for the info (it helps them determine market size for their products).

while this is a very important topic - as a developer, it can be a very confusing time to actually listen to any figures like this.

from 1999 -> 2002, we were very palm specific (palm exclusive) - with the exception when we were paid a nice sum of money to do something for the vtech helio. at that time, palm had very strong dominance in the handheld market. back then were big times.

from 2002+ - we started to hear much more from handheld users. people making the switch from palm to other platforms; and, the every increasing emergence of nokia with the symbian platform (they can sell more phones in one month than a handheld device can sell in a year). so, we started developing our SHARK development kit - allowing developers to port easily between the different platforms.

from day one when SHARK was available - we noticed a change in the community. more people with pocket pc and symbian devices started asking when our palm games would be converted; effectively, we just opened up our potential sales base three fold.

But yeah, I agree that the market is splitting into lots of segments, and different companies are going to be strong in different ones. The split is not just low end, midrange, and high end; different types of people want to do dramatically different things with smartphones and handhelds.

Commodity markets like PCs and televisions aren't a good model for what'll happen in mobile devices, because the needs of mobile users conflict. What's appealing to one mobile customer is repulsive to another; the "ultimate" handheld or smartphone doesn't exist. I think this market's more like the market for motor vehicles or clothing -- many people use different things, one size fits one.

isn't this more reason to promote to developers that they should consider multiple platforms within their development? when pushing sales numbers showing palm as a dominant player - isn't that a sign from you to them that they shouldn't bother with other platforms?

my point about 33% is specific to let developers know its not just about one platform; it used to be - but, with the diversity of the mobile platforms available; there will never be a single player.

you admit, yourself that there is segmentation; but, is it really such that palm holds 78% of the market (last months numbers). sure, may be the way in the USA - but, keep in mind that there are just over 6 billion people on this planet and around 300 million of these are from the USA.

while, of course not accounting for under developed countries; the USA is only 5% of the worlds population. i would be really interested; from a business development point of view to know worldwide distribution figures; rather than just seeing highlights of certain countries :) i am sure you know what i mean.

my favourite device is still the Treo 600, Sony Clie TH55 in close second; followed by the sony ericsson P900 smartphone. as much as i would love to stay palmos only in my developments; the worldwide market tells me otherwise :)

the reality is that you'll get just as many sales on each platform; if it suits the needs of all consumers.
we could go on forever about the logistics and debate about this; but, we have sales numbers to prove it - and, lets leave it for the beer fest :)

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Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

Will you be updating HaCkMe

the quick answer - no.

while i agree it has some great value to some users (including those who want to use it illegally) - there is just simply too many inter-developer tensions in place if we update this software. if you do have software dependent on hotsync username registered; we recommend that users contact the developer for a new unlock code.

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Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

Aaron--what makes you think that Entry-Level souls will be using Symbian? Don't you think that there should be a Palm OS Solution for the Entry Level Market? Why Symbian for Entry Level? I just don't get it.

PS: www.esd-union.com (another topic altogether)

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Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

I used to have some commercial software tied to ROM ID, but I found it wasn't worth the hassle trying to keep up with the updates. For just about any piece of software, there are good alternatives that don't burden the user with such user-hostile schemes.

Put developers that do this sort of thing to their users out of business--don't buy their software.

Maybe THEN it will dawn on your dim head that this OS requires a BUILT-IN FILESYSTEM!

thats bollocks. there is no need for a built in file system; its additional overhead that really isn't needed. Palm provides developers with a filesystem when it is needed; that being, you insert an SD/MMC card into your device and you can transport the files to another computer.

if you want to argue that you want to access documents from the internal memory - you can have a conduit connect to the device and give you a virtual overview (ie: as a file system) of the internals directly.

palmos was built without the complexity of a filesystem; and, unless you are a developer - you really never needed to care about such a concept.

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Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

The shame spiral begins.

its a pity flamewars are so easily started on the Internet :) such is life *g* you get used to it. i always wondered what happened to mikecanes prediction stories; i guess, they got dumped :)

i am really considering doing some research into the development of a new os that can be flashed to existing devices; that is compatible with all binaries on each platform. you could imagine having a tri-os, supporting palm/pocketpc and symbian binaries. the hardware is relatively the same *g*

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Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

Like I said, your IQ is good for games only. Stick to them

i've always wondered why even when someone else agrees with a statement i have made; you still claim you are correct. (read up, a tapwave zodiac user replied). can you not afford to be wrong? if you make a mistake; surely you can admit it.

external memory cards were created for a reason - hence why there is has been no need to build an internal file system on the palmos devices; it would be very nice if a conduit could exist to browse the external memory card; but, how it is stored internally - it doesn't matter to the user.

in fact, the palmos does have a file system - its just not a standard one (like FAT12). its a database driven file system specifically designed for fast/simple access.

there are handheld devices that do exist that *do* have filesystems; instead of complaining that your favourite one doesn't - just buy the device that does?!

i wish you would refrain some commenting about technical issues - specifically those around development; as you clearly know absolutely nothing about these topics. i wonder what happened to that prediction about opera being ported - thats right! you had no technical understanding why it couldn't (or would be difficult to) be done - but, you demanded it anyhow. +1 points for mikecane.

feel free to come to a palmsource conference and voice your opinion face to face (i always liked confrontations). but refrain from making yourself look like an idiot on a discussion forum such as this, where you can always hide behind your keyboard and monitor.

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Aaron Ardiri
PalmOS Certified Developer
aaron_ardiri@mobilewizardry.com
http://www.mobilewizardry.com/members/aaron_ardiri.php

But there isn't a good way to do that on the Palm: the databases on Palm are just stored in a flat list.

Furthermore, the Palm PDB format doesn't even deserve the name "database". A real database contains metadata describing the data contained in the database. That way, different programs can make use of the data and extend it. Palm lacks that.

Palm needs a file system to organize databases, and it needs a real database format, not the outdated PDB junk it has. I hope POS6 is going to get both.

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23750

This is repeated over and over and over. Don't get me started on the CLIE...

I do understand why Mike Cane is yelling. He probably has lots of files he'd like to shuffle between his PC and Palm handheld. It's likely he has a comprehensive heirarchy for where he stores his stuff.

I think he needs a heirarchical viewer / organizer, rather than a file system.

A file system would be an unnecessary burden in the long term. Palm OS 6 is going the way of schema databases. Note too, that Microsoft Longhorn (or should I say Unicorn :-P ) is heading in that direction. Not that they would eliminate the file system as you know it, but searchng files will be query based. I think BeOS pioneered this approach, and some of its techniques have filtered into Cobalt. Mac OS X already does something like this although very crudely.

Anyway, the Palm handheld is extremely useful to me without a "file system."