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Comments on: Rumor: Tungsten T5 Spotted in Retail Database

UPDATED According to new information in the PalmInfocenter Forums, the rumored palmOne Tungsten T5 has been spotted in a major retail store's database. While the listing does not provide much new information, it confirms the the upcoming model name.
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Great

northstar31 @ 9/16/2004 6:03:52 PM #
Thats very nice, i hope it will be in stores very soon with price less than 500$ and icludes these specfications :

1 ) Bluetooth
2 ) WiFi
3 ) 320 * 480 with OLED screen
4 ) Multi Processing
5 ) MP3 player
6 ) Voice recording
7 ) At least 1.0 Mega Pixel camera
8 ) Hi speed processor
9 ) At least 128 MB of RAM

RE: Great
hkklife @ 9/16/2004 6:14:18 PM #
My predicted specs:

1. BT
2. No wi-fi
3. 320*480 screen, same as T3's but from a single source (Sony). This model's been in the works far too long to be OLED-equipped.
4. ? Who knows?
5. Yup
6. Yup
7. No chance in heck of that happening! This is a business-oriented unit!
8. At least 412-450mhz
9. I figure at least 64mb maybe 128. No more than that.
10. No UC but with new Athena connector.


RE: Great
JonathanChoo @ 9/16/2004 7:11:37 PM #
atleast 520Mhz
Flash ROM available
Bluetooth v1.2
Will have UC and mUSB

--
Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i (nxt week)
RE: Great
stringbeanie @ 9/16/2004 9:38:57 PM #
Now if someone knew if the Treo 650 was coming out in Oct 1....
RE: Great
LiveFaith @ 9/16/2004 10:44:09 PM #
I keep hearing about the "athena" conector. Exactly what does this thing bring to the table & how is it better than the UC, notwithstanding $ale$ of new accessories for P1? Is is a mini-usb = others?

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Great
hkklife @ 9/17/2004 11:19:25 AM #
From what I've been able to gather, examine and speculate, the "Athena" connector will unify the Tungstens (at least the pricier ones) and the new post-600 Treos.

Someone on the 1src forums, kezza I believe, commented that it looked like a smaller locking connector similar to the recent Sony/Ericsson ones. I think that P1 is trying to take a cue from the cell phone industry and have a cable that connects to handhelds solidly enough for you to be able to "dangle" the Palm by the charger cable and have it still securely attached.

I suppose Palm figures the advent of improved batteries & the deathknell of dial-up models eliminates the need for "sled" batteries & modem accessories. Wi-Fi is best done via SDIO or hardwired into the handheld. So that just leaves serial communications out of the picture for industrial/testing/hobbyist applications.

I suspect the P1 units releaed in '06 at $200 or above will have the Athena connector and possibly even have native USB 2.0 sync capabilities as well as trickle-charge over USB.

So think of Athena as UC 2.0 with faster USB, no serial, a smaller physical connector and without the notches in the rear of the handheld. That's just my prediction, of course! Oh, I still maintain that there will be some form of 2D acceleration ala Zodiac in the T5.

RE: Great
Altema @ 9/17/2004 10:13:08 PM #
"So that just leaves serial communications out of the picture for industrial/testing/hobbyist applications."

And everyone in the telcomm industry that uses rs232 on their Palm on a regular basis. The sell apps and accessories dedicated to this function. I'll seriously have to think about this one, as it will mean I go back to lugging my laptop around again for network configurations... or NOT buy the T5.

RE: Great
hkklife @ 9/17/2004 10:25:27 PM #
The thing I find so ironically funny was that just 2 years or so ago, when the OS 4.1 update was released for the OS 4.0 m500 and m505, it didn't run under WinXP and required a serial cable/cradle as Palm somehow couldn't write a decent OS installer that could run over a USB sync connection. Anyone else remember that debacle? Actually I think that Win 98/Me could do it over USB but 2k/XP had to use serial. I remember having to go and order a Palm serial cradle off of E-Bay just to get the installer to run since I didn't have immediate access to a Win 9x machine.

Now here goes P1 abandoning not only the UC but serial connectivity in general for the whole platform. Not a smart move especially when I see Symbol & Handera/TRG units still in use on a regular basis by workers in various fields.

P.S. I still maintain that there's a decently profitable niche market for a ruggedized, oversized Palm OS 5.x handheld with 320*480, wi-fi, a huge battery and RS232 connectivity. A Panasonic "ToughPalm", anyone?

RE: Great
JonathanChoo @ 9/18/2004 2:36:48 PM #
The GPS ad probably confirms that the T5 probably has UC or miniUSB since the GPS unit comes with interchangeable power connection tips for T3 and Zire 72.

Anyway I was just thinking, the speculation that the T5 would have a new connector was based purely on the reason that there is a new cradle and portable charger. What if the portable charger and cradle are actually the new interchangeable kinds where users can remove the power tip.

Also redesigning the cradle is normal. Look at Sony and HP. Almost all their models uses the same serial connectors but for every model there is a new cradle. And who knows, its possible the T5 would have removable battery hence a redesigned cradle to accomodate a spare battery.

I have to add that this are just my speculations.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

RE: Great
hotpaw4 @ 9/19/2004 2:25:33 PM #
For connectivity from PalmOS devices without serial ports to legacy devices with serial interfaces, there are both IrDa-to-serial and Bluetooth-to-serial adapters available. Some seem not much larger than a folded serial cable.
RE: Great
Altema @ 9/21/2004 10:02:15 AM #
"there are both IrDa-to-serial and Bluetooth-to-serial adapters available. Some seem not much larger than a folded serial cable"

Sounds great if they will fit in my back pocket and work with "Online", the app I use for that type of work. The BT verson would be way cool, as most of the routers and switches I work with have the console port on the back, making line-of-sight for IR difficult. Have any links?

I'm impressed.....

PalmAddict @ 9/16/2004 7:30:42 PM #
pa1mOne has done an incredible job of keeping this one secret. It is only 2 weeks from release (Oct. 1 is a standard role out date) and there is nothing on this device in the way of photos or really hard info on new capabilities.

Even with the T|3 last year, there were leaked photos 2 1/2 months early. I love the fact that I have no idea what is coming until it actually gets here. It feels like Christmas Eve knowing that there is a present waiting downstairs!

Now, the SD WiFi card on the other hand is just a cruel joke in its delays and real limited availability, but I am still waiting for that as well!

BTW, last year I was let in on the secret of the T|3 almost 2 months early. This time: bupkiss! eh, That's the way of the world!



-

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." - George Gobol.

RE: I'm impressed.....
I.M Anonymous @ 9/16/2004 8:08:25 PM #
At least two independant sources leaked pictures at the end of August. See http://www.brighthand.com/articles/pictures.php?imageURL=palmOne_T5_RU_Co_L.jpg

RE: I'm impressed.....
gfunkmagic @ 9/16/2004 8:13:38 PM #
Umm... sorry, but those pics have already been established as hoaxes:

http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=437

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: I'm impressed.....
RAMd®d @ 9/18/2004 2:00:42 PM #
I love it when somebody "debunks" photos that turn out to be the real thing.

Can't wait to see if this is the exception.


______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: I'm impressed.....
Timothy Rapson @ 9/19/2004 8:13:53 PM #
I am betting that whatever PalmOne has to replace the T3 won't be here until after November 1. Why? Because the prices of T3s have not plunged and there is no big promo to clear out inventory. Sure, the T3 has been successful, but even the HP 2215 that may have been the most consistently top-selling PDA HP ever offered is selling for $100 less than it was before the new HP models were revealed.

I don't care, as I am not in the market for a PDA without a camera, but I don't expect anyone here will buy a T5 until Novemeber.

Already auctioning my old Tungsten T and m515

GearHead @ 9/16/2004 10:41:14 PM #
I hope it'll come with all the goodies we all hope. Let's keep our fingers crossed guys!

Bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!

Palm III>Palm IIIx>PalmV>PalmVx>Palm m505>Palm M515>Tungsten T
Dell X30 624Mhz w/BT+Wi-Fi
Nokia 6600 w/BT

All I want is WiFi

Analytical @ 9/17/2004 1:36:35 AM #
Well thats not true I want lots of things, in fact what i really want is a Palm with a similar or better spec than Sony's TH55. Otherwise i'm seriously considering other alternatives.

I see this all the time in these groups people asking for features and yet Palm seems oblivious, don't the marketing guys at Palm HQ have internet access or something?

All I want is to be heard. Palm are you listening?



-----------------------
kn0xster/@/hotmail.com

RE: All I want is WiFi
Timothy Rapson @ 9/19/2004 8:18:29 PM #
I would have already bought a Zire 72 if it only had included soft graffiti. As it is, I bought a Zire 71 for only $118 after the Zire 72 was as good as shipping and there is so little advance in the 72 over the 71 I can wait until next February for a $118 Zire 72. There will be lots of them leftover. I expect to see Plam drop the regular price to $250 soon and even that won't make it a best seller this Christmas.

I am with you on the whole Palm marketing folly. PPCs may be boring, but at least they know how to make full featured model after full featured model for about the price of a feature curtailed PalmOne TE. This may be changing as HP shows a terrible lineup for this season-- $279 for a PPC with 25 MB of RAM! Are you CRAZY, HP? I hope PalmOne goes the extra mile to gain back some sales momentum.

Unimpressed

heavyduty @ 9/17/2004 4:28:20 AM #
This is p1's top of the line product, yet they didn't include WiFi (supposedly).
If this is true, then I'm very unimpressed: except for the cpu it will fall short next to the older TH-55, which has everything (at least the European version) most people in this forum wish for.

P1 always seems to hold back so that they have something to advance to in their upcoming models. Compare this to the PPCs; there are *plenty* of models with the latest specs: 480*640 screens, WiFi+bt, camera, etc.....

no wifi is fine by me... as long as...
quadrac @ 9/17/2004 7:34:07 AM #
you can't get it all BT WiFi.. and ask for a device that costs 400$ so i guess it's allright to leave the WiFi out as long as they give 2 SD slots!!!! (one slot to put the wifi sd card in)

RE: Unimpressed
palmdoc88 @ 9/17/2004 7:47:55 AM #
Well bad news. I heard there's no Wifi, only one SD slot and no UC...
As T3 user, I am not upgrading.

T3 user
RE: Unimpressed
JonathanChoo @ 9/17/2004 8:05:29 AM #
Don't really care bout WiFi either. By the time wireless hotspots become common it would be 2006. Only then will WiFi (or WiMAX) become mandatory.

--
Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i (nxt week)
who says no WiFi?
bluedoc @ 9/17/2004 10:58:32 AM #
"They didn't include WiFi"....according to whom?

From the above "Rumor" article: "There was also speculation that it would include both Bluetooth and WiFi wireless."

RE: Unimpressed
AyDb @ 9/17/2004 1:47:05 PM #
you can't get it all BT WiFi.. and ask for a device that costs 400$

Of course you can. Dell and HP both have dual wireless units for under $400, and dual wireless Dells sell for $250 or less. To say that PalmOne can't build a dual wireless unit for under $400 is lowing the bar to a ludicrous extent. PalmOne needs to face tougher expectations, rather than have people praise them for just showing up.

RE: Unimpressed
hkklife @ 9/17/2004 3:27:01 PM #
Dell has far, far greater leverage from suppliers than P1 does. They can really put the squeeze on the industry to meet certain price points. Dell's prices also fluctuate regularly since they sell direct and adjust to market conditions. P1's products are generally purchased at retail so there's some markup there as well.
By all indications, Dell's quality for handhels may be even lower than Palm's/P1's has been lately. Also, keep in mind that Dell can afford to subsidize their PDAs and stuff with higher-margin items like printers, LCD monitors, plasma TVs etc. P1 has handhelds, smartphones, a handful of acessories and that's it.

Basically, P1 has determined that dual wireless is still not yet "crucial" and has some sort of evangelistic favoritism towards BT over wi-fi (and battery life concerns as well). I think it'll take them until spring '05 at the earliest to intro a dual wireless model.

RE: Unimpressed
AyDb @ 9/17/2004 5:17:48 PM #
Dell has far, far greater leverage from suppliers than P1 does. They can really put the squeeze on the industry to meet certain price points.

PalmOne sold 950,000 units in the second quarter, Dell sold 150,000. If PalmOne can't get a better deal on handheld parts, they need to seriously reconsider how they do business.

Dell's prices also fluctuate regularly since they sell direct and adjust to market conditions. P1's products are generally purchased at retail so there's some markup there as well.

$150 worth of markup? I don't think so. Even if there were, there's nothing stopping them from selling them lower online.

By all indications, Dell's quality for handhels may be even lower than Palm's/P1's has been lately.

Not in my experience. I've had all three high-end Dells, plus the Tungsten E, Zire 71, and Zire 72. I've never felt like the Dells were lower quality, and I've never had defectivity problems with them. In fact, I've found them to be consistently reliable and well built.

Also, keep in mind that Dell can afford to subsidize their PDAs

Dell doesn't subsidize their handhelds, they make a solid profit off them. More profit, as a percentage of price, than they make off their desktop sales.

Basically, P1 has determined that dual wireless is still not yet "crucial" and has some sort of evangelistic favoritism towards BT over wi-fi (and battery life concerns as well). I think it'll take them until spring '05 at the earliest to intro a dual wireless model.

I hope they don't take that long, because if they do they're dead. Just getting WiFi into a few models would help, since PalmOne is completely missing the boat on the huge adoption of WiFi. But dual wireless is very neccessary. It's getting closer to being an entry level feature, and once wireless internet becomes standard I doubt that most buyers would find an unconnected Palm very appealing.

NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Gekko @ 9/17/2004 9:59:08 AM #

DAMN YOU, PALMONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
mikecane @ 9/17/2004 11:22:26 AM #
Yeah, what he said.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
quadrac @ 9/17/2004 12:06:30 PM #
well..... come to think about it... if there's no wifi and no OLED screen... what is the upgrade from T3? the name?
no way... my guess is that it's going to be something bigger then a better CPU..

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
WileyCoyote @ 9/17/2004 12:18:42 PM #
I think the WIFI can wait untill there is a real need for it and the product has the specs to take advantage of the potential..
Whats the point of WIFI browsing on a miserable small screen
I see the real need now is to move to the brighter thinner OLED screens that Sony has developed. I'm not buying a new PDA untill Palm has an OLED model to offer. OLED is the future in PDA screen technology.
again...who says no WiFi?
bluedoc @ 9/17/2004 1:43:28 PM #
The article says: "There was also speculation that it would include both Bluetooth and WiFi wireless."



RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
AyDb @ 9/17/2004 1:56:34 PM #
I think the WIFI can wait untill there is a real need for it and the product has the specs to take advantage of the potential..
Whats the point of WIFI browsing on a miserable small screen

There's been a real need for it for years. WiFi is incredibly popular all over the U.S. and elsewhere, with millions upon millions of access points in homes, businesses, and hotspots. And, besides web browsing, there's email, IM, streaming media, network access, and dozens of other things that you can do with WiFi quite comfortably even if you don't like web browsing. To not have WiFi would be inexcusable.

I see the real need now is to move to the brighter thinner OLED screens that Sony has developed. I'm not buying a new PDA untill Palm has an OLED model to offer. OLED is the future in PDA screen technology.

OLEDs aren't really that good. Sure, they're bright and thin, but they die after a few years of heavy use and are difficult bordering on impossible to see outdoors. Their benefits don't really outweigh the disadvantages.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Gekko @ 9/18/2004 9:12:37 AM #

NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!


RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
mikecane @ 9/18/2004 10:43:41 AM #
Yeah, what he said again.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Gekko @ 9/18/2004 11:09:58 AM #

CNET Hotspot Zone

Want the Web wherever, whenever? The same wireless networking that is invading homes and offices is now going public, with thousands of so-called hot spots throughout the United States. All you need is a notebook or other device with Wi-Fi, and you can get high-speed access at cafes, airports, and hotels. Whether you subscribe to a commercial service such as Boingo or T-Mobile HotSpot or go it alone with a community connection, chances are there's a hot spot right around the corner. For a list of nearby hot spots, just enter your zip code and click Go. Or if you have something more specific in mind, you can fill out any of the power search options.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6659_7-726628-1.html



RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
ozz @ 9/18/2004 12:05:28 PM #
Gekko: that is exactly why I want a built-in wifi in my next Palm....so I can go online on-the-go. I don't want to fool with a wifi card that could get broken or lost (not to mention the extra cost of the card). If the T5 doesn't have wifi built-in, I won't buy it.

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
RAMd®d @ 9/18/2004 2:04:03 PM #
And now there is speculation that there is no Wi-Fi.

All pretty funny.

Some people here have already made up their minds based on what may or may not be true about a product that hasn't shipped, and has no press release.

Comical.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
skygazer @ 9/19/2004 8:16:36 PM #
I would say it's quite natural for humans to speculate and have opinions. We have current wants and a future focus. You may have saintly patience beyond most, but I don't. I've been waiting for this October since January, consuming every bit of rumor I can get my hands on.

I personally like substantiated rumor more than the baseless variety, and I think the jury's still out the inclusion of WiFi. I'm ambivalent about it, because I've already invested in Bluetooth, and am afraid that most would be unhappy with the battery life of a WiFi T5 -- I'd rather have built in low power GPRS so I could get ride of my Blackberry. But I wouldn't want to sacrifice my 360x480 screen for a Treo 650.

That's my point. We all have our own needs. A PDA doesn't need to be a religion, and differing opinions don't need to be ridiculed. =)


RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Timothy Rapson @ 9/19/2004 8:36:49 PM #
Wow, I guess WiFi is the big thing here. In my town of 80,000+ population that CNET site offered exactly one, (1), yes ONE WiFi hotspot.

I can wait for WiFi. Now, maybe for a $400 PalmOne it should be included. I agree with the above postings that note Dell includes dual wireless in $250 models so PalmOne can certainly afford to incude it in $400 ones. Indeed, much of the code needed in built right into the latest Intel ARM processors.


RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Wollombi @ 9/19/2004 10:16:40 PM #
The city I live in has put in free Wi-Fi coverage downtown that covers 100 city blocks, including a major park. Wi-Fi is currently the future, and is rapidly becoming ubiquitous in businesses, homes, and public areas within the United States and elsewhere. Personally, I would rather connect to check my email via Wi-Fi than with my phone. The connection is generally faster, and I don't have to punch number pad keys to type out a message.

http://www.spokanehotzone.com/

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Strider_mt2k @ 9/19/2004 11:57:02 PM #
Maybe my situation isn't typical, but since I got my TH55, I've had WiFi access (free) in every hotel I've stayed at, and access to pay WiFi hotspots in every airport.

Also, the conferences I attend seem to be filled with vendors who have no problem leaving connections wide open to anyone capable of a basic scan.


IMO if the T5 doesn't have built-in WiFi, it's not gonna be pretty.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
JShoo @ 9/20/2004 10:57:33 AM #
I am a computer consultant who often works for weeks at a time in a hotel conference room or customer location far away from home. Many times I am pulled into another room where it is inconvenient or impossible to use a notebook computer. The Palm is truly essential there and I have come to depend on it.

However wi-fi is our standard in situations like this, and has been the one thing missing from the Palm. On my next trip I WILL be taking a handheld with wi-fi, even if that means buying my first Pocket PC.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
mikecane @ 9/20/2004 11:05:44 AM #
>>>On my next trip I WILL be taking a handheld with wi-fi, even if that means buying my first Pocket PC.

You have my pity.

Better you should get a T3, Power To Go, and SD card than The Other Thing.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Alric @ 9/20/2004 11:40:33 AM #
As an owner of a Dell X30 that switched from a T|T and a long time Palm user I can say say there is not much to miss from switching to PPC.

Most of the major apps work the same and web browsing over Wi-Fi is a much better experience.

So far I have been very happy with the switch.

Cheers,

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
mikecane @ 9/20/2004 1:36:13 PM #
>>>I can say say there is not much to miss from switching to PPC.

Apparently Zen never rubbed off on you. Incredible.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
NewtonDKC @ 9/20/2004 2:33:40 PM #
I have to agree with Alric. Since switching to PPC I have come to realize that waiting for Palm to build the PDA I want - and most importantly, NEED, is something I just can't afford to wait to do. I know many of you consider Pocket PC's to be the bane of humanity, but apart from hatred for Microsoft (which I must confess, I have little love for them either and I certainly deplore some of their tactics) that most of the reasons cited for hating them (if indeed, any reasons are even cited) come from outdated ideas (comparing a T3 to an old Palm Size Casio E10 is not an apt comparison!) or from people who either haven't given the platform a chance or haven't used it at all.
I certainly am not trying to start a flame war (though I'm sure I will get some venom-filled responses) but listening to people complain and complain about how they want this or that and Palm appears to either not listen, not think it's worth it, or just plain don't care. Buying from a competing product line will either get them to care and build some PDA's I need, or else they'll lose my business permanently. (Yes, I know some of you are saying "Fine, go to the dark side, we won't miss you!" and that's what is most upsetting - I used to be one of you, and now because I switched to an iPAQ (current model is a 4150), I am now evil, a traitor, etc. Seriosuly, some people are that fanatical!
Anyway, being a long time Palm user - and a Pocket PC user - I can honestly say I have used both platforms in detail, and both have weaknesses and strengths. If anyone wants to know something about either platform and a FAIR comparison, let me know, I will not mislead anyone. And I also will not stick with a platform for the sake of...what? I'll go with whatever works best for me, be that Palm, Pocket PC, Newton (RIP), or something else. :-)

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
A Tom B @ 9/20/2004 3:07:16 PM #
i completely agree with you Newton. I've already tested a few PPC devices and unless the T5 has some specific features (re: WiFi, screen resolution = VGA) then I'm planning on buying a handheld with the features I want...instead of waiting for P1 to come along. I've been a "Palm" user since 1998 and I am literally a few weeks away from finally getting what I want!..

I do have some questions....how can i contact you?

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Gekko @ 9/20/2004 3:59:40 PM #

NEWTON - I think many of us would like to see a "pros vs. cons" outline from an unbiased long-term user like yourself of both platforms. Please post your thoughts here or in the forums or elsewhere - we'd love to hear them.

THANKS.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Gekko @ 9/20/2004 5:25:08 PM #

My message to PalmOne:

http://theforbidden-zone.com/sounds/youmaniacs.wav



RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
mikecane @ 9/21/2004 8:23:28 AM #
>>>I can honestly say I have used both platforms in detail

So have I. I'm sticking with PalmOS.

Unless Symbian comes along in a PDA... (hear THAT, p1?).

Nokia PDA?
mikecane @ 9/21/2004 9:29:31 AM #
RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
NewtonDKC @ 9/21/2004 11:06:06 AM #
Tom B - you (or anyone) can email me at NewtonDKC@@msn.com (remove the double @ - used to prevent grabbing my address easily by spammers). :-)

Gekko - I'd love to do a fair, unbiased comparison of the 2 platforms, but I don't want to seem like I'm trying to convince Palm users to buy a Pocket PC (not at all - just want to make sure people are informed with true information that isn't biased - and given the real facts and user preferences for what they need, this could lead to either type of device).

I'll be the first to admit that I can be extremely wordy - I like to include lots of details. :-) And I've always said if I was buying a PDA for Mom, I'd get her a Palm, a PDA for my tech saavy best friend, would be a Pocket PC. So even now I don't lean toward one platform or the other exclusively, but rather dependent on what the target audiences' needs and goals. Obviously anything that's subjective would be my opinion, but anything factual I will try to be factual!

Since PIC is Palm-oriented, I'd think something like this might be better for a site like Brighthand that features both platforms equally. Or maybe I could write it up and email it to anyone who asks? I don't, what does everyone think?

One thing that always annoys when I read message boards is when someone says "You can do by step 1-2-3 on Palm but it takes twice as many steps ona Pocket PC" or "You can do this on the Pocket PC but the Palm simply can't handle this or is too simplistic to do this, etc". Oftentimes, comparisons are made with a current model on one side - compared to an old model (or rather an older version of the OS) on the other. Obviously Palm OS 3.0 - despite being a solid OS - is not goingt o come out looking good against Pocket PC 2003 Second Edition. Secondly, comparing Palm OS 5 to Windows CE 2.1 is going to have a similar "unfairness" about it. But people do comaprisons like this in a lot of posts.

Also, I do not have a Pocket PC phone edition device, nor have I used a Treo. So my comparison would be PDA-centric, and not of converged devices of either platform (though I think it'd be great if someone who had both platforms and - in all honesty - used them both an equal amount could give a comparison of those as well. Heck, maybe it could star a whole series of editorial reviews - not a "Platform A is better than Platform B", but just a simple comparison of how a particular task or activity is done on each platform, and let the user decide which way is easier or sounds better. I tend not to like the "Palm vs. Pocket PC" articles, because there's always a loser, and it's usually the platform that the host site/magazine/etc isn't running or sponsoring. :-)

So how about we start of with questions? Anybody want to ask a real world question, like "How do I set an appointment on a Pocket PC and how do I so that on a Palm?" Or that sort of thing. For devices I actually have, I'll use the iPAQ 4150, and the Palm Zire 72, both being midrange devices. What does everyone think about that format to start?

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Gekko @ 9/21/2004 1:14:02 PM #
>"Or maybe I could write it up and email it to anyone who asks? I don't, what does everyone think?"

NETOWN - Please write it up and post it in the PIC Forums under "OFF TOPIC". Let us know it's done by posting a notification here. I'm sure lots of us would love to read it. For those that don't want to, they don't have to. THANKS.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
rikster @ 9/21/2004 4:26:27 PM #
I just feel the need to say this....

If the T5 appears & is missing wi-fi, then I think PalmOne will have shot themself in the foot.

It seems to me that quite a few loyal Palm users have been waiting & waiting for a good PDA with wi-fi. I'm still stuck on my Vx - hoping that PalmOne will release such a machine.

I've been watching the PPC's come out with bluetooth & wi-fi for over a year now, thinking that PalmOne will certainly have to compete. I really don't want a PPC - but if the T5 appears wi-fi less, then I & quite a few others will jump ship to PPC.

T5 with wi-fi - :-)
T5 without wi-fi - bye PalmOne, hello Billy Gates.

RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 8:28:37 AM #
What if the latest leak (see waaaay below) is true and it lacks WiFi? But what if when it comes out, you can buy it at a special price bundled with that WiFi SD card? (I recall CompUSA when introducing the Toshiba GENIO did such a thing -- included a case too, I think!) Would that suffice? I mean, if this thing is going to have monster battery life due to Flash RAM, maybe it'll have great battery life even using that WiFi SD card?

WIFI SD Card Disadvantages
Gekko @ 9/22/2004 11:04:33 AM #
WIFI SD Card Disadvantages:

1. Extra Cost. ($400+$130=$530)
2. Klunky - Extra Piece to Lose/Remember/Store/Carry/Break.
3. Takes up Existing SD Slot.
4. Vulnerable to Damage - Sticks out of Device.
5. SDIO Bottleneck means slower SD WIFI vs. Built-In WIFI.
6. SDIO WIFI sucks up battery power faster vs. Built-In WIFI.
6. Buyer Fool-Factor considering PPC has had built-in for 1+ year at cheaper total cost.

Did I miss anything?



RE: NO WIFI? OUTRAGEOUS!!!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 4:10:48 PM #
5. SDIO Bottleneck means slower SD WIFI vs. Built-In WIFI.
6. SDIO WIFI sucks up battery power faster vs. Built-In WIFI.

-- where is your substantiation? Have you run WiFi on a T3 with an SD card vs. *another* 400MHz PalmOS device with Wifi built-in? Oh, that's right -- YOU CAN'T.

Next!

New Information on T5......

oceanman177 @ 9/17/2004 1:39:12 PM #
According to my sources in Redwood City, the new T5 will include:
1. Peeling paint.
2. No WI-Fi. It will have a dial up modem.
3. A built in polaroid camera.

Now will everyone please get a life on this matter? Who cares about this product until we get some FACTS!

RE: New Information on T5......
lamp @ 9/17/2004 3:04:56 PM #
The rumour I heard was that the T5 is trying to appeal to female buyers, so it includes a built-in Taser. (That's what the T in T5 really stands for).

If this is true, Palm is insane!!! What kind of battery life do they expect?????


RE: New Information on T5......
Patrick @ 9/18/2004 1:14:22 PM #
Yea, I would guess you'd only get about 3 or 4 taser hits before you'd have to recharge.

RE: New Information on T5......
Timothy Rapson @ 9/19/2004 8:42:39 PM #
WOuld it keep PIMS and pics of the most wanted taser targets for me? Cool.

Is there ever a chance that corporate companies plant rumors

A9700rO @ 9/17/2004 2:41:53 PM #
Is there ever a chanche that corporate companies planted a rumor to make people wait impatienlty, ready to fork over a specific amout of Ca$h? Just wondering. But as far as the Zire 72/31 were true, it's easier for me to beleive this one too.

RE: Is there ever a chance that corporate companies plant rumors
AyDb @ 9/17/2004 6:11:56 PM #
Companies definitely leak rumors sometimes. HP leaked practically their entire lineup just before the Axim X30 release in the hope of blunting its impact and retaining customers. (Much good it did them.) Sometimes companies will also leak information to boost their stock price.

RE: Is there ever a chance that corporate companies plant ru
palmdoc88 @ 9/17/2004 9:27:19 PM #
No builtin Wifi is a stupid omission. Wifi is not only immensely popular in USA but in Europe and Asia-Pacific.
If they think after spending $400 for the T5 people will readily spend another 100+ for a Wifi card, think again palmOne..
What, no model with dual wireless? What is palmONe thinking?
PPC and Sony have had this for a long time now.
I predict palmOne will lose even more market share as a result of this. If they think the smartphone way is the only way to go - think again.
Looks like palmOne will go the way of Handspring and will be swallowed up by someone else.



T3 user

Is there ever a chance that companies plant rumors?
hotpaw4 @ 9/19/2004 2:34:10 PM #
Companies have been known to plant rumors to trace the sources of leaks of confidential information.

No Wireless

DJSloan @ 9/17/2004 3:50:05 PM #
There will be no wireless on the T5. NO Wi-Fi and NO bluetooth.


If there is wouldn't the FCC know about it and have posted the info to their site already???

RE: No Wireless
mikecane @ 9/17/2004 4:23:02 PM #
No, as someone else said, the vendor can request that the FCC keep the info confidential until a certain date.

RE: No Wireless
RAMd®d @ 9/18/2004 2:06:44 PM #
I'd be surprised not to see BT.

And if the battery life has be significantly increased, then Wi-Fi could be a real possibility rather than a liability. I have no need for it, but if it didn't suck the life out of a battery in mere minutes, it could be fun.

I'd still like to see a very basic unit built on the V/Vx form factor. No wireless except via an SD slot, a color screen with decent resolution, and exceptional battery life.

Maybe rework the m515 to be a bit more svelte, or just update the m515 a little.

My T3, in a case, feels like a PPC in my pocket. I can carry a PPK with more concealibility.

But can't wait to see what this T5 brings.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: No Wireless
mikecane @ 9/18/2004 5:24:03 PM #
>>>An armed society is a polite society

Ah, yes, like all those places in the Third World where blood runs like the rain from Hurricane Ivan...

RE: No Wireless
patchwork @ 9/18/2004 10:45:51 PM #
Speaking on behalf of all us "third worlders" and those of us that were in Hurricane Ivan's path, that wasn't quite politically correct, Mike. You're a poster with a lot of status on the forum. Provide a better example for other posters, and try to keep these kinds of inflammatory quips in check please.

===


-P-A-T-C-H-W-O-R-K-
A Trini Palm Nut
III - IIIe - IIIx - M500 - T|T - ??

Come visit Trinidad & Tobago at
http://www.visittnt.com
http://www.triniscene.com

RE: No Wireless
schmitt @ 9/19/2004 12:19:45 AM #
GPS Navigator:
http://store.palmone.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=1818608

"This Bluetooth™ GPS car kit is bundled with TomTom Navigator software. The Bluetooth technology-enabled receiver sits on your dashboard, where it identifies the car's position using at least 3 satellites. By communicating with the GPS receiver via Bluetooth, your handheld obtains real-time location information and displays 2D or 3D maps by TomTom. Using the handheld's high-resolution screen, the maps automatically show your car's location."

Since the GPS Navigator works via Bluetooth, and the Palm Store lists the T5 as one of the compatible devices, it follows that the T5 will include Bluetooth. I would hope so, given the $400 price. I'm not worried about Wi-Fi, since I have no hotspots at home or work. I do, however, understand that many of the customers PalmOne is targeting with the T5 do want Wi-Fi built in. Perhaps dual SD slots and a Wi-Fi card bundle would win them over.

I like the latest "leaked" photo rendering the T5 as a slightly stretched TE with the casing color of the Mxxx series. The larger screen, fast processor, longer battery life due to flash ROM, quantity of memory, and ability to go back to using a cradle (UC, mini-USB, Athena, or whatever) all make me very excited able this new model.

I'm very hopeful that the higher price will allow Palm to provide a much more durable finish for this product, as opposed to the easily scratched TE or the ever-peeling Z72.

I went from M105 (testing the waters) -> M500 (decided I did have valid uses for a PDA afterall, and it was on sale) -> TT (expensive; didn't enjoy the slider, but it did survive a fall from shirt pocket to blacktop) -> Z71 (liked having a cam at all times, but I didn't like the case color, the little nav joystick, or the fact that it was just too thick for my shirt pocket when secured in the included case. this actually led me to clip my keys to a belt loop and start keeping my PDA in a pants pocket, which proved safer and more comfortable.) -> TE (upset when the flip cover scratched up the finish in just a few days) -> Sony TJ35 (DIM screen, pitiful stylus) -> back to TE (added foam pads to inside of flip cover to protect finish).

The TE has the form factor and flip cover I loved with the M500. Though the M500 had a sleeker look, I actually find the blunted corners of the TE more comfortable to hold. Looking forward to October. Nice to know I'll get paid between now and then.

Michael

RE: No Wireless
vesther @ 9/19/2004 8:24:48 PM #
It's no mistake that a manufacturer can request temporary confidentality on certain aspects of a particular product in order to prevent spoiling the consumer because a new policy permits manufacturers to request temporary confidentiality on certain aspects of the recently approved product until a certain date so that the consumers would not blow off the product.

This happened when the Motorola i860 was first approved, and I'm expecting PalmOne and other handheld makers to follow suit on future approvals.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

RE: No Wireless
mikecane @ 9/20/2004 8:59:21 AM #
>>>Speaking on behalf of all us "third worlders" and those of us that were in Hurricane Ivan's path, that wasn't quite politically correct, Mike. You're a poster with a lot of status on the forum. Provide a better example for other posters, and try to keep these kinds of inflammatory quips in check please.

Show me a first world nation that is like, say, Darfur, and then tell me his tagline makes any sense. It is his tag line that bugged me. And stuff "PC." (BTW, we once had what much of the Third World has: It was called the Old West.)

We now return to pulling out our hair over the Tip Top Secret T5...

RE: No Wireless
solarwar @ 9/20/2004 12:01:58 PM #
Just ignore Mike. He is a racist, as demonstrated in other non-PDA related posts. e.g. He said something like "The people in Bangladesh can't even afford PDA's, so what would they know of it?" ---- Mike said referring to PalmOne's support perhaps being in Bangladesh.

Don't get me wrong, he has an extraordinary insight about the PDA world, and I find his articles interesting, although his obsession with the T5 is like a schizo on drugs, but all that becomes irrelevant when he makes non-PDA comments.

You have the right to feel offended about his comment referring to the carribean as third world.

RE: No Wireless
rcartwright @ 9/20/2004 7:26:44 PM #
Nah,

Mike gets obsessed about a lot of things, not just the T5. I really marvel at how much P1 has been able to keep under wraps this time out. I could see that it could knock anyone off their meds.

Rick C

RE: No Wireless
mikecane @ 9/21/2004 8:24:54 AM #
>>>Just ignore Mike. He is a racist

Oh, look who's back. The libelous creep who was previously banned from PIC. Please send me your address. I have a lawyer who wishes to speak to YOUR lawyer.

This is what happens when major competition leaves...

IsLNdbOi @ 9/19/2004 4:21:03 AM #
Isn't this what usually happens when a major competitor in the market leaves? The remaining "player" has no incentive to include anything other than little upgrades to things they already have? I've seen this before. When Sony left the market, PalmOne did not have any competitor to match up with. Remember when Sony first entered the market? Palm's units were boring old "organizers" with barely any multimedia features. Then Sony introduced the CLIE which sported some of these multimedia features. That is when Palm started doing it to. Now that Sony has left, Palm doesn't have to do this anymore (create units that have all the whiz bang features and other things users ask for). They don't have to compete with another company because they know they are tops in the PalmOS PDA world. I hope someone understands what I'm saying here.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Patrick @ 9/19/2004 4:30:21 AM #
I understand that if P1 thinks Sony, and not HP, is their main competitor then they deserve to be put out of business.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
IsLNdbOi @ 9/19/2004 5:03:16 AM #
I'm probably wrong about this, but I think that the main force that drove Palm to become more "innovative" with regards to their PDA designs and features, in the past couple of years was Sony.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Gekko @ 9/19/2004 9:27:24 AM #
How's this for competition?:

Dell X50
WIFI (802.11g possibly)
Bluetooth
3.7-inch VGA screen
624MHz processor
Marathon 2700g graphics processor
128MB RAM
64MB ROM
Removable Battery
CompactFlash slot
SD card slot
iPAQ 4155 Form Factor
$400-$500 MSRP
October/November 2004

All the Palm apologists can pooh-pooh Dell/PocketPC/MSFT all they want but the waves keep getting bigger and the tsunami is still coming.

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War



RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Strider_mt2k @ 9/19/2004 10:03:11 AM #
PPC is throwing some really nice form factor and hardware combinations out there, but as someone who has really only operated in the PalmOS universe, I'm held back from switching by all the horror stories about application size, compatability, and expense.

On the other hand, the thought of using applications like the ones on my PC (Outlook, IE, etc...) get more and more compelling as I meet more folks running PPC who seem to be happy with them.

I dunno, I guess I have some sort of loyalty to PalmOS too.
Laziness too; I don't relish the thought of learning a whole new set of rules.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
twizza @ 9/19/2004 11:02:10 AM #
AS a person who has both a Palm and a PPC, you aren't missing much. The ability of having dual wireless and the option of Graffiti are really the only benefits that I have found. Outlook is a ton better, just still doesn't do all that you will want to do without adding another program. WOrd and Excel suck, Documents to Go is so so much better for the simple fact that you can use regular doc without changing the format. PPC will change to format to a Pocket Word format. If you really want a PPC, I would hold off unless you need something from the hardware side that you cannot get from a PalmOS device. The simplicity of use for the operating system makes PalmOS more favorable to me.


As for competition leaving, yea Sony is gone. But if P1 doesn't see that the normal consumer sees them next to Dell and HP, P1 will have missed the boat. I think that they will be fine. Of course p1 doesn't have the financial muscle to make 2 goood and 4 bad devices per model turnover. They have to make good models everytime. I think that they are willing to take a chance, just only a calculated one that will keep their bottom line growing, not so much the power user wish list full.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Gekko @ 9/19/2004 11:08:51 AM #

1982 all over again???


Personal Computer Market Share: 1975-2002

http://www.pegasus3d.com/total_share.html

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
hussain @ 9/19/2004 12:10:33 PM #
I agree with twizza, PPC is much more complicated to use (I have a PPC(My dad's) and a Palm) that's the only thing that is really keeping me from getting a PPC is the fact that it is much more complicated, for example brightness is a simple click on PalmOne's and on PPC you have to click start, settings, then one of the tabs in the settings (forgot which one) then screen, then screen brightness.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Gekko @ 9/19/2004 12:22:05 PM #

It will be interesting to see what/when Windows Mobile 2005 offers regarding improved intuitiveness while balancing increased horsepower. If they can smooth out the intuitive rough spots of the OS/PIM interface, it will be deadly when combined with the hardware.



RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Scott R @ 9/19/2004 4:16:53 PM #
Don't forget about the Tapwave Zodiac:
- Large capacity battery
- 3.8" 480x320 screen
- Bluetooth
- Dual SD slots (one SDIO)
- Yamaha sound chip
- ATI 2D graphics accelerator
- Gaming-friendly controls/buttons including analog controller
- Built-in flip-cover
- $299 for 32MB (Z1) or $399 for 128MB (Z2)

Come on in...the water's fine. ;)

http://Tapland.com
- Tapwave Zodiac News, Reviews, & Discussion -

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Sho-Bud @ 9/19/2004 6:21:21 PM #
If there is no serial connection possible (PalmOne seems to abandon theUC), than my company won't buy PalmOne product anymore, since we rely on serial communication.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
Timothy Rapson @ 9/19/2004 8:53:45 PM #
Patrick has it right in my opinion. HP and Dell are the competition. Dell is not offering much price/feature competition with their latest offerings. ($279 for 25 MB of RAM, come ON HP!) But, Dell is kicking the competition all over the field price-wise.
I see it is much easier to adjust the brightness with the built-in OS on the PPC than on a PalmOne, but I need to go through several hoops to shut off the sound on my Zire 71 while it was right on the bottom of every screen with one tap on my ancient Ipaq. This can be fixed with utilities on both systems, but the Palm OS is not made for such utilites and they cause trouble. The PPC OS has trouble enough without such utilities so they only make an unstable environment a little more unstable.
Anyway, I won't likely see a PalmOne model I am interested in until next Spring. Too bad, that. If I see a Asus 730 for less than $400 that would tempt me far more than a T5 with these current specs.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
mikecane @ 9/20/2004 9:03:21 AM #
hp is not palmOne's competition any more than Windows was the MacOS's competition.

Oh, wait a minute...!

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
justauser @ 9/20/2004 9:33:14 AM #
I’m not sure one could assume that Palm are getting lazy as a result of Sony’s departure. I believe all of their product releases over the last couple of years have been calculated market assaults – perhaps some have been unsuccessful or ill-timed, but surely none have be the result of complacency. At present, there is strong opposition and Palm shares have suffered the odd buffeting.

Competition does not mean identical OS. From my vague recollection of marketing, competition can take the form of ‘apples for apples products’, substitution products, internal staff potentially breaking off and doing their own thing (as we have seen), as well as customers just losing interest.

Therefore, one can only assume that the T5 (and the Treo 650) will be Palm’s best shot at combating existing and emerging threats. We’ll see whether their bet pays off.


RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
tooele @ 9/20/2004 3:07:51 PM #
I never bought a sony PDA because they were to expensive but at least they released new features. Palmone drags on and on forever making us wait for the next palm. Meanwhile almost every new PPC has dual wireless while Palmone still has never made a single unit with dual wireless. If they don't pick up the pace they're history and we'll be stuck with crapy PPC's for the rest of our lives.

RE: This is what happens when major competition leaves...
JonathanChoo @ 9/21/2004 10:19:23 AM #
T3 is dual-wireless - IrDA and Bluetooth

But I know you meant tri-wireless ;)

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

Tungsten T5's Button Layout

vesther @ 9/19/2004 8:22:13 PM #
IMO I think that the final version of the Tungsten T5's button layout should be different from the "test beta" photos that I have seen thus far, hopefully, the button layout will be more ergonomic when the final version of the Tungsten T5 is released for the US Market.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.
RE: Tungsten T5's Button Layout
Strider_mt2k @ 9/19/2004 11:51:29 PM #
Test beta photos?

You mean the fakes?

Deafening silence on the software front?

hkklife @ 9/20/2004 11:52:19 AM #
Has anyone else noticed lately an utter lack of new updates to most of the "major", frequently updated POS apps out there? Aeroplayer has a new version out but other than that and the DTG7 from a few months back, it's been pretty silent. No new Adobe Acrobat readers, Real player or anything of the sort. No new Kinoma updates either. My guess means that most of the "big" developers are under strict NDA and are putting the polish on their programs to run on...something that has architecture that's at least reasonably different from what's out there now. That would mean, in my best guess, OS6 or with a funky memory arrangement. Maybe the mythical AvantGo with high-res+ support will finally materialize as well.

I still maintain that the T5 will have a tremendous software bundle built-in b/c P1 will try to sway buyers who are not jumping for joy over the "hardware bang for the $" with their "tons of good software included in the box" tactics.


I'd also anticipate there are many developers scrambling to get 320*480 support out the door because now there will be more than a single P1 model and the niche Zodiac & Garmin to support.

RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
Patrick @ 9/20/2004 1:27:00 PM #
I dunno about the deafening silence part, and I'm not sure I actually agree with that -- DTG 7 wasn't that long ago -- but I really have never understood this "Software in the box" mentality. You see it regularly in hardware reviews where a product gets dinged because it doesn't include something "in the box".

Frankly, buyers of sophisticated products like a top-of-the-line Tungsten really ought not to care so much what software is in the box. What they should care about it the total cost of ownership for the device, accessories, and all the software they need.

This is what is making the (conjectured) T5 so unappealing to me -- I have a whack of accessories that won't work with it. Also, if it is indeed Cobalt, I suspect that a lot of the software titles I own will need updates to them before they work correctly as well, especially the ones which hook themselves into the OS (like snapCalc5).


RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
JShoo @ 9/20/2004 1:36:49 PM #
Speaking of OS6, if the rumor about 256 meg of flash RAM is true, that would seem to indicate that the T5 WILL run Cobalt. Right now Palm's developer web site says that 128 meg of RAM is the maximum for 5.x OS, including Garnet.

Of course there are other possibilities. Palm could have tweaked the 5.x OS and / or hardware to handle the 256 meg. Still, I think that gives hope that the T5 may break new ground.

My gut feeling is that the "informed source", the one who debunked the fake pictures, is someone from Palm who is telling the truth. So running with what he said, and the OS6 logic above, the T5 would be an interesting rollout, even if it isn't what most of us expected: an OS6 device with long battery life and a ton of memory, which can be mounted as a removable drive on any PC. Ane probably with a ton of software, as mentioned in the posting above.

Palm may have been in a position where they couldn't go head to head with the PPC on raw hardware, so they had to go with ease of use and innovation.

RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
hkklife @ 9/20/2004 2:31:59 PM #
Patrick, do note that I didn't say I was sitting here evangelicizing the T5 by any means. I'll still be very miffed if the UC is not present on the O5 (a likely scenario) as it was barely around for 2 years in "newly released" Palm handhelds. I also think that for $400 nowadays, a top-of-the-line handheld had better make as few compromises as possible hardware-wise. That said, P1 still knows better than anyone else that the vast majority of "PDA PIM" users never install any apps onto their handhelds other than perhaps a game or two. Even fewer buy downloadable software (as oppposed to freeware and crippled demoware) and fewer yet upgrade to "premium" or newer versions of apps included in the handheld's original retail bundle. That's why they need to make a strong impression with the OOTB bundle to impress:

A. Non-hardcore users (pretty much anyone who doesn't read PIC/Brighthand
B. Journalists & magazine reviewers who spend a few hours with a product that are reviewing then send it back out

So, do bear in mind that while I think the T5 will be rather underwhelming, it's still better to have a $400 handheld with underwhelming hardware and a strong bundle than the same $400 model with a bunch of obsolete shovelware tossed onto a CD. If you don't like Kinoma or whatever else, you can always delete it from flash.

RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
JonathanChoo @ 9/21/2004 10:20:51 AM #
JShoo - note that the rumour is the T5 has 256Mb ROM and not 256Mb RAM. 256Mb RAM is overkill and would impact battery life.

I would lean more towards the ROM rumour as I think palmOne might want to appeal more towards people who wants a PDA that has lots of memories for audio files straight out of the box. A flash ROM would be perfect for that.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
JShoo @ 9/21/2004 11:26:59 AM #
Yes, the rumor was definitely Flash ROM. It is being used as a RAM replacement it sounds like, no real RAM at all. The flash fills the traditional function of ROM (storing constant data), along with the function of RAM (stores rapidly changing data). Supposedly this would give longer battery life since no RAM needs to be refreshed.
RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
JonathanChoo @ 9/21/2004 12:13:48 PM #
If that is the case then I do hope the rumours are not true.

However I am sure there would be real RAM for the dynamic memory. Flash ROM no matter how fast it can be would never ever reach RAM speed. 32Mb would be sufficient (ala Motorola mPx) in this case.

What sounds to me is the T5 will have a 'traditional' PC like memory interface with the RAM (32Mb?) purely for execution and the ROM (256Mb) as a storage.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
mikecane @ 9/21/2004 1:20:50 PM #
Or maybe it will -- urg -- have a special "multimedia" RAM like the CLIE UX? I hope not...

Imagine all those palmOne employees reading these speculations. I wonder if they have a betting pool going on who's the most wrong and right?

Hey, put me down in the Most Frustrated category!

RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
JShoo @ 9/22/2004 12:45:24 AM #
Here is the quote from http://www.1src.com/?m=show&id=432 . So far everything this source has said seems to match the facts (like the accessory ads which have started appearing).

"There will be a 256MB Flash RAM (which is impervious to hard resets). All apps will be native and 230MB will be usable."

Clearly if the rumors are true, the memory must ALL be flash. Otherwise it would not have the long battery life which people are talking about. And 256 meg of flash would be useless.

RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
JShoo @ 9/22/2004 12:50:06 AM #
What I meant to say in my last comment is "256 meg of flash dedicated as ROM, for running programs only would be useless". People have that much data but not that many programs.
RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
JonathanChoo @ 9/22/2004 5:34:37 AM #
If this is true than its most likely magnetic RAM.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i
RE: Deafening silence on the software front?
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 8:19:22 AM #
Well, is this good or not good? Will it impact speed? How long will it take me to open SmartDOC with a few hundred files on this (*1 second* on the TE! -- 4-6 seconds on my S320!).

I'm all for keeping that battery going as long as possible (God knows the TE needs better battery life!!), but at the cost of speed? That's a Hobson's Choice!

Is it just me?

A9700rO @ 9/20/2004 1:35:21 PM #
To me, the Treo 650 sounds like a Zire 72+Phone. Correct me If I'm wrong in anyway here, only been into PDAs for a year and owned 3 different ones.

Evidence that there will be no slider

JShoo @ 9/20/2004 4:45:11 PM #
www.1src.com found that J&R's website has detail about some T5 accessories. One thing is that it will use the same stylus as Tungsten E & Zire 72. That stylus would be too long for a tungsten with a slider.
RE: Evidence that there will be no slider
rcartwright @ 9/20/2004 7:18:43 PM #
>www.1src.com found that J&R's website has detail about some T5 >accessories. One thing is that it will use the same stylus as >Tungsten E & Zire 72. That stylus would be too long for a >tungsten with a slider.

I too looked at the J&R website and would agree that the indication is that the stylus compatability says no slider. Also, I suspect that the screen protectors are unique to the T5 also indicates that the screen will be somehow different from the T3, etc.

Also, if I were Mike Cane, I would also suspect that this could be deliberate dis-information put out by P1 to make us THINK that there will be no slider...but no, this way leads to madness..

At this point, I will believe what I can discover by holding it in my hand and looking it over with the Mark 1 eyeballs.

Rick C


Rick C

RE: Evidence that there will be no slider
mikecane @ 9/21/2004 8:29:35 AM #
>>>Also, if I were Mike Cane, I would also suspect that this could be deliberate dis-information put out by P1 to make us THINK that there will be no slider...but no, this way leads to madness..

I think there *has* been disinfo put out, but none of us will know for sure until the Big Unveiling (oh, is the word "unveiling" now anti-PC, anti-Muslim?). (GOOD!)

RE: Evidence that there will be no slider
InsGuy @ 9/21/2004 12:34:54 PM #
I think there *has* been disinfo put out, but none of us will know for sure until the Big Unveiling (oh, is the word "unveiling" now anti-PC, anti-Muslim?). (GOOD!)

THAT is the best comment I've hear from you yet!

Good One!

All good things...

RE: Evidence that there will be no slider
A9700rO @ 9/21/2004 12:42:52 PM #
If the T5 wont come with a screen larger than 320x320, or a DIA. Screw it, I'll wait for the succesor of the Zire 72(However long). The rumored Treo 650 is a capable candidate too.

RE: Evidence that there will be no slider
JonathanChoo @ 9/21/2004 12:56:57 PM #
Change of screen size does not mean change of screen resolution. Would this be a 4" baby? Maybe.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!

mikecane @ 9/21/2004 7:04:18 PM #
All this sounds right to me.

What about to you?

http://www.clieuk.co.uk/tt5.htm

Hmmm... FILES dedicated button. A FILESYSTEM?!!?

RE: Latest T5 leak -- not BELIEVABLE!
numlock @ 9/21/2004 7:29:17 PM #
this is not believeable. first missteak, is that "favourites" is spelled the english way

another poor forgery

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/21/2004 7:33:33 PM #
Yes, hello, the literature originated in ENGLAND. Why can't this be from palmOne's British office?

Don't you recall the first believable info on the last new Zire came from SPAIN?

And people claim *I* am Amerocentric?

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Gekko @ 9/21/2004 7:56:30 PM #

Is the time 7:01 or 9:27???

FAKE!!!

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 8:13:35 AM #
From PDA247's forum re the T5- "The slides are real and so are the specs and the photos. I've held the T5 in my hand two weeks ago (under strict NDA, so please don't expose my e-mail) and all the features mentioned are correct. The button for the Files access is also there; it's a shortcut to a very well laid out file manager. The Disk Use mode is really nice .. the model I had in my hands had Tomtom maps stored on the flash drive. The Manual pic with the T|T3 photo in slide 3 just proves that marketing peeps are lazy and don't want to work any harder than necesseary."

http://tinyurl.com/6uzac

I think it's real. And the lack of *Foo* screaming "Fake!" here is verrry interesting. Could he be busy playing with that filesystem? Hmmm....

Start cashing in those plastic bottles and aluminum cans, kiddies! Ha!

RE: Latest T5 leak -- even *MORE* BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 8:31:53 AM #
Hmmm... this latest leak has produced *silence* on the email/link front. I don't see it plastered all over the net nor do people I've emailed it to care to reply. I think that settles it: these people who I know have been under NDA in the past are shutting up so as to not violate their agreement. It's REAL.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
amike @ 9/22/2004 8:55:09 AM #
It's a fake made by a PPC-boy. Period!

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 9:15:27 AM #
We'll see.

Hmmm... Ryan should set up a section where we can put our PIC names under leaks as "It's Real" or "It's Fake." This would keep score. Who goes back and counts votes afterwards (not even Florida!)?

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Gekko @ 9/22/2004 9:24:54 AM #

If that piece of shiit is the T5, PalmOne is in big trouble. People are "silent" about it because it's so bad it either has to fake or just a really shiitty device in terms of specs.



RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 10:25:23 AM #
What's bad about it, aside from no WiFi? I like the idea of don't-lose-your-data. Why don't you? Feeling the heat because it'll offer the same see-your-PDA-as-a-drive that PPC ActiveStink offers (and act as a portable Flash drive -- which PPC can't do!)? Feeling threatened because salespeople can tell potential buyers, "Oh, when the battery dies on this Pocket PC, you'll LOSE ALL YOUR DATA. But *not* on this new palmOne Tungsten T5."

Match that, Dell. Keep your bargain basement price. It's actually worth less.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Gekko @ 9/22/2004 10:32:46 AM #

MikeCon - Please get this straight - I could care less whose name is on the product. I have no emotional attachment to either Palm, Dell, MSFT, Intel, etc. I just want to buy the best, highest value product offered.

This alleged "T5" is so underwhelming and so unimpressive that it warrants little discussion. Hence, few here are commenting on it. It's a glorified TE. If this is what these numbskulls at PalmOne are sending out as their flagship, they deserve to go bankrupt. This alleged "T5" would be an insult to our intelligence.



RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
JonathanChoo @ 9/22/2004 12:59:29 PM #
Then why are you commenting about it?
RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
hkklife @ 9/22/2004 1:28:14 PM #
If this IS the real deal then I'm as disappointed as I have ever been with Palm/P1. This is right up there with my "barely incremental" upgrade disappointment from m505 to m515.

If this T|E2 masquerading as a T5 is indeed their only new fall handheld as well as the new flagship model then it's really looking grim for P1. They are putting too much faith on the Treo line and leaving the PDAs out to rot.

Say what you will, at least Palm gambled with the slider 2 years ago and tried to milk it as long as possible with mixed results. It's not that I have a problem with the specs of the model that's just been leaked. I just have a problem with trying to make it a line-topping model, with the confusing nomenclature (it should be a T|E2 and nothing more), lack of voice recording, and the utter absence of a wi-fi enabled successor to the T|C so far.

The T3 is so close to perfection IMHO that losing the slider, switching to the Treo's d-pad, changing to OS6 and sticking in a bigger battery would make for a perfect unit. I'd rather see a refreshed T3 anyday (slider or not) than this halfhearted T5.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
JShoo @ 9/22/2004 1:28:40 PM #
I have no idea whether or not the picture is fake, but the specifications match all the facts we know so far (like ads for accessories) and the things the most credible sources have said. Except for the one wild fake, the stories have been rather consistent so far, and they match this posting.

Having mountable files is not surprising. Third party software does that right now. Maybe Palm just bundled it in.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
JShoo @ 9/22/2004 1:51:06 PM #
I don't know why a fake would post something so underwhelming, unless they hate Palm. This is basically just a T3 with flash and no slider.

The screen is the same. The processor is the same, 412 vs. 400 MHz xscale. It is really just two flavors of the same thing, do you want a slider or not?

I guess if this has cobalt that might be a reason to buy it.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Bunjay @ 9/22/2004 1:54:32 PM #
We deserve better!!!
Please don't make me buy PPC!!!

...crying in despair...

Please don't wake me - allow me to dream on.

very poor FAKE!!!
quadrac @ 9/22/2004 2:40:40 PM #
did you notice that there are 3 pictures? did you notice that the 3rd pic shows a different palm then the 1st pic?????
come on fakers... at least try to make it look real...

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 4:05:46 PM #
I think it's real. We'll all know soon enough.

1) I like the TE, so this form factor is not bad to me

2) I like the idea of the Flash, no more sweating over the battery meter (which, BTW, does not do much metering!)

3) I like mounting it as an external drive (*what* 3rd-party software allows that? What have I been missing?)

4) 256MB -- who would dare gripe about this?

5) No springy stylus; one-piece

6) Bound to be less bulky than the T3

Sure I would have liked WiFi included... and maybe I'm setting my expectations too low. Well, they can always shock me with something better.

And, Gekko, sure, you don't care what name is on something. All those Dell shill posts of yours here were optical illusions, right? We all imagined that.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Altema @ 9/22/2004 4:26:31 PM #
1. I don't care that much for the TE.
2. I like the flash idea too.
3. I like external drive mounting. You can do that with an expansion card now using CardExport2, but not with the device itself unless you setup a RAM Disc.
4. 256Mb: gimmie!
5. I LIKE the springy thingie! (will I get in trouble for that?)
6. Thickness, yes, length, no.

Nobody seems to notice;

7. The speaker is on the back!

With the T3, you could prop it on its side with the speaker pointing right at you. The days of setting up an instant drive-in on your dash are over.

The T|5 is real. Unfortunately.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/22/2004 4:32:27 PM #
The photo in the third slide is actually a T|3.

Palm's new model is as unimpressive as its specs suggest.


Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Gekko @ 9/22/2004 5:18:17 PM #

http://theforbidden-zone.com/sounds/youmaniacs.wav



RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 7:03:32 PM #
Yeah, like I'll really click on a .WAV file while in the library, Gekko. You are so in love with MS, aren't you? It *had* to be an MS file format, you couldn't do MP3, could you? (Evil laughter.)

As for the prior poster who doesn't like the TE length, at least you won't have to worry about the slider getting broken or screws falling out. Yeah, the speaker is on the back, but it doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would. It's pretty loud, although I've yet to find an alarm sound as loud as the one on my old mono CLIE S320. On the T3 (3, not E, no typo here) alarms can wake the dead! (That is not a gripe!)

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Gekko @ 9/22/2004 7:19:08 PM #

MikeCon - the thought of you in a public library where small children might be scares me.



RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
mikecane @ 9/22/2004 7:48:49 PM #
Nitwit. This is a research library. Kids don't come in (unless dragooned in by the rare illiterate who think they can *do* something with a book...).

Unbelievable -- Either Way
Patrick @ 9/23/2004 12:19:45 AM #
If it is a hoax, then it deserves to not be believed.
If it not a hoax, then perhaps it is even more unbelievable, at least to me.

This T5 is so disappointing it's hard to know where to begin.

Flash RAM? So you don't lose any data when your battery dies??? Gee, that happens to me just about every day. Sure.

Mounting the Palm as a drive or two? CardExport anyone? SyncWizard?? What a fabulous advance that one is.

Lots of RAM? That must have added, oh, what? $5-$10 to the cost? We only think this is great because Palm has heretofore been so miserly with memory. This could have been done ages ago (the RAM limit bug in PalmOS notwithstanding).

A T|E frame? Has anyone compared the hardware of the T|E, particularly the hardware buttons and D-Pad, to those on the T|T series? The T|T quality is *significantly* higher, IMHO.

With the m515, with the Tungsten|T, with the Tungsten|T3, each time when I read about the specs, when I held the device in my hand the first time, my heart beat a little faster and I looked forward to the time when I could possess it.

All I feel for this purported T5, alas, is contempt.


RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
Strider_mt2k @ 9/23/2004 10:23:58 AM #
The way they word it, you are also led to believe that the USB connection facilitates mounting your handheld as a drive where somehow the Universal Connector wouldn't?
Ya, okay.

Spin spin spin

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
hkklife @ 9/23/2004 2:49:23 PM #
If this thing costs $400 and is not only devoid of the UC but missing a cradle in the box.....oh man, it's gonna be a dark day in the P1 world when this thing is unleashed.

I really wish that the drive mounting feature would/could somehow be a part of any UC-enabled model seated in the cradle.

RE: Latest T5 leak -- BELIEVABLE!
ganoe @ 9/27/2004 12:46:36 PM #
Is it possible that PalmOne would release something different in the UK and Europe than they would release in the US? I find it really difficult to believe they could release something without WiFi in the US given the features in other current devices. Also, the people talking about this on the PDA24/7 site seem to imply that is has OS 5.4. What, no OS 6? From the images that are there, I'm not sure how they are coming up with the OS version.

I sure hope this isn't the only PDA PalmOne has lined up for this fall. If this is released as-described (no WiFI, no OS 6) in the US, I might be buying a Pocket PC.

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