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Comments on: PalmSource Introduces Palm OS Cobalt 6.1 for Smartphones

PalmSource has introduced Palm OS Cobalt 6.1, an enhanced version of Palm OS Cobalt. Designed to accelerate the development of next-generation Palm Powered smartphones and wireless devices, Palm OS Cobalt 6.1 builds on the foundation of Palm OS Cobalt and provides integrated telephony features, support for WiFi and Bluetooth and enhancements to the user interface.
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The son becomes the father?

Foo Fighter @ 9/27/2004 10:05:52 PM #
So...Cobalt 6.1 arrives before 6.0 even materializes? Beautiful. I'm wondering what's really going on here. Could it be that PalmSource licensees are having a difficult time acclimating Cobalt to their products, or vice versa. Or could it be they are not impressed by what they see, and are thus hesitant to release this white elephant? I'm getting some very strong vibes that Cobalt is going to be a MAJOR letdown.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: The son becomes the father?
Foo Fighter @ 9/27/2004 10:12:24 PM #
Another thought:

Perhaps Cobalt was so bad, or at least in an unfinished state, that no one wanted it. So licensees are waiting on 6.1? Maybe...could be...we'll see.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: The son becomes the father?
LiveFaith @ 9/27/2004 10:44:10 PM #
Foo,

PSRC is releasing the .1 upgrade 10 months after releasing 6.0. P1 is about to release a unit(s) w/ OS6 in a few weeks in my estimation. It will take cell manufacturers as long to prepare an OS6.1 device + many more months to get such a device thru the "red tape" of cell carriers. My thots on the 1st OS6.1 device in a local store is Q1 or Q2 of 2006. I wouldn't call the Verizon store tommorrow to see if their in yet in other words.

I don't see any hidden admissions of failure here. Although, those beautiful apps will make TT5 owners a little jealous. If the TT5 has Garnet, there may not be any TT5 owners. :-)

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: The son becomes the father?
abosco @ 9/27/2004 10:53:07 PM #
Or maybe PalmOne has a history of mistiming PDA releases, and there are no major players in the Palm OS fold that are capable of devoting the resources to quickly develop a PDA with Cobalt? Sounds a little more plausible.

-Bosco
NX80v + Wifi + BT + T637
RE: The son becomes the father?
Patrick @ 9/28/2004 12:40:48 AM #
More like 6.0 was a release of whatever they had to meet the deadline they had foolishly pre-announced. With that out of the way, they got to work on a system that would actually be usable, 6.1.

RE: The son becomes the father?
JonathanChoo @ 9/28/2004 3:57:38 AM #
I think 6.0 was rushed and the licensees were bust customising the OS due to PalmSource delivering what I think was a crippled OS with no native landscape support and no native VGA support.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i
RE: The son becomes the father?
SeldomVisitor @ 9/28/2004 5:59:25 AM #
"Patrick" hit it right o the head, IMHO. PSRC management had promised Cobalt within 2003 and there would have been disasterous lawsuits, etc, had they not "made" that deadline.

So release a Beta (art best) product and upgrade it later.

Works!

RE: The son becomes the father?
Timothy Rapson @ 9/28/2004 7:56:15 AM #
Silly people.
6.0 is for PDAs
6.1 is for phones

(OK, that is just my wild guess and perhaps I am the silly one.)

RE: The son becomes the father?
a3 @ 9/28/2004 9:36:06 AM #
What if they already released 6.0 and after feedback from current and potencial licensees they have already started working in 6.1?

Regarding the update, if there is a rumor that TT3 and T|C can receive 6.0 then it is possible that TT3, T|C and TT5 will receive 6.1. Anyway, I won't be holding my breath for that.

____________________________________________________
Current fan of a 320x480 tablet shaped Palm with built in BT+Wifi for less than US$450

RE: The son becomes the father?
Foo Fighter @ 9/28/2004 2:18:23 PM #
So...I'm confused about the nature of Cobalt releases. Does this mean PalmSource is now taking a tripple OS strategy approach? Garnet for low-end PDAs...Cobalt 6.0 for handhelds...and Cobalt 6.1 for Smartphones?

Are we going to see the same interface illustrated in these screenshots applied to PDAs as well, or is this GUI strickly for Smartphones?

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: The son becomes the father?
rsc1000 @ 9/28/2004 4:54:29 PM #
>>So...I'm confused about the nature of Cobalt releases. Does this mean PalmSource is now taking a tripple OS strategy approach? Garnet for low-end PDAs...Cobalt 6.0 for handhelds...and Cobalt 6.1 for Smartphones?

No - i think PIC's headline is a little misleading. This is Cobolt 6.1 - NOT "Cobolt 6.1 for Smartphones". They have added more wireless and smartphone features to Cobolt in 6.1 - but it is not a different smartphone version of the OS.

RE: The son becomes the father?
rsc1000 @ 9/28/2004 4:54:29 PM #
Also - Garnet is meant to target smartphones because that way they can have a 'cheaper' phone os designed for the smartphone market where comnpanies typically pay a lot less to lisense the OS. But companies can of course (and some company probably will) use Cobolt in a smartphone - but the lisense will be more. I thought the Garnet / Cobolt split was a rather neat way for Palm to get mileage out of OS 5, allowing them to provide a cheap OS for phones AND maintaining their typically higher PDA lisensing fee for Cobolt. Promote the guy who came up with that strategy!

RE: The son becomes the father?
Rome @ 9/28/2004 5:08:30 PM #
Foo,

I think the Cobalt 6.0 and 6.1 is like Windows XP Home and XP Professional. As for Garnet, it is more like Windows 98. I think Garnet eventually will be phased out in the future.

Cobalt, of course, is backward compatiable.

RE: The son becomes the father?
twizza @ 9/28/2004 6:14:03 PM #
There are not three PalmOSs. There is Garnet - what we see on all recent PalmOS handhelds. And there is Cobalt, which has just experienced an update to 6.1. The licensees have had access to 6.0, and now they have access to 6.1. 6.1 had a lot of fixes and additional features added to it. It is an upgrade of 6.0. Yes, it is possible to go thru an upgrade before the OS is released on hardware.

As for when we will see our first Cobalt devices. According to my converstations with PalmSource, we will not see a Cobalt device until next year. It is my guess that they either asked licensees to hold off on releasing Cobalt devices until after this point release, or that licensees were not ready to release Cobalt yet either due to being comfortable with Garnet for now, or looking for a better time to release a Cobalt device.

Sorry to make things sound as bad as they are. But Cobalt is ready, PS is really just growing into being a full fledged software company within today's market. It is even going as far as to not having a dual promotional run with Garnet and Cobalt. Garnet is the tried and true OS that will be used for a while yet. Cobalt is being pushed more towards the newer and smaller licensees so that they would be a step into the game.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: The son becomes the father?
LiveFaith @ 9/28/2004 10:27:07 PM #
Rome!!! With all due respect don't compare ANYthing Palm with Windows 98. That slug has tormented more people than Saddam.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: The son becomes the father?
Gekko @ 9/28/2004 10:47:48 PM #
>"As for when we will see our first Cobalt devices. According to my converstations with PalmSource, we will not see a Cobalt device until next year."

Wasn't this pig given to licensees in December 2003???? What the hell has been going on in the last year????



RE: The son becomes the father?
hackbod @ 9/29/2004 2:53:08 AM #
> I think the Cobalt 6.0 and 6.1 is like Windows XP Home and XP
> Professional. As for Garnet, it is more like Windows 98.

For a (somewhat) forced comparisons with the evolution of Windows, I would suggest that it's probably closer to:

Garnet -> Cobalt 6.0 -> Cobalt 6.1
Windows 3.1 -> Windows NT 3.x -> Windows 2000

In the core technology, there are many things in 6.1 that are on par with XP or Mac OS X or even what Microsoft plans for Avalon. For example, we now fully support window translucency effects -- with a single API call you can set the alpha level of your window, or even do very sophisticated arbitrary alpha compositing, all live, with no screen flicker. This is used in the new UI to do the fullscreen graffiti effect, true composited window shadows, etc.

Cobalt 6.1 is very much just the next version of Cobalt -- it is not at all a "new OS" in the way the transition from Garnet to Cobalt was. In fact much of what you are seeing in 6.1 is simply fulfilling the potential of the foundations that were already there in 6.0 but weren't completed due to deadlines. And trust me, there is plenty more remaining potential that we will be revealed in future releases. :)

> More like 6.0 was a release of whatever they had to meet
> the deadline they had foolishly pre-announced. With that
> out of the way, they got to work on a system that would
> actually be usable, 6.1.

While it is certainly true that what we could get in to 6.0 was greatly limited by the schedule, that in no way means that 6.0 (or really 6.0.1) was not a "usable" a release. There was nothing foolish about getting it out when we did -- in fact, given how different Cobalt is than previous versions of the OS, it was far more important to get a real product out and into the hands of the licensees as soon as possible rather than take more time completing additional unnecessary features like a revamp of the UI.

> Wasn't this pig given to licensees in December 2003????
> What the hell has been going on in the last year????

There is usually quite a lag between the time a new release of the OS is delivered to licensees and when it ships on devices. Our licensees tend to do a lot of customization of the OS for what they want to accomplish with their device, so it's not like in the desktop world where the platform vendor can just target a generic piece of hardware and all the hardware manufactures can basically use the result as-is.

Plus, in the case of Cobalt we have what is essentially a brand new OS. Much of the custom work the licensees have done in the past on Garnet needs to be ported to Cobalt, and these things are often... ah... "intimately tied" to the OS architecture, requiring significant effort to port over. (Often licensees have to do the same things we did three years ago, when we for example sat down and said, "okay these Notification Manager APIs... how are we going to get them to work in a new protected memory OS?")

--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

RE: The son becomes the father?
mikecane @ 9/29/2004 10:17:27 AM #
What?! My old pal hackbod (who never answered some old posts -- go torture yourself by searching for them on PIC!) is a *woman*?!!?

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

RE: The son becomes the father?
Texonite @ 9/29/2004 3:09:19 PM #
Twizza, Hackbod, great info.

Just a little addition in therminology.

Everyone is confused because of "smartphone" word in news. I think, that PSRC just means every GSM/CDMA-connected PDA. As long as Treo 600 can be called both Smartphone (for a shape) or Communicator (for a functionality).

Actually, i think, that Cobalt 6.0 simulator has NO multithreading at all - as long as i found NO multithread program-code at all (good, i could have looked bad, but:)

The New Web Browser 3.0 works NOT in background mode on Cobalt 6.0 Simulator! It works good with three (not more %-( ) pages, opened within it, but as i tap Home button, it goes all off...
I'm waiting for 6.1 Simulator, but if this problem still there... That's a shame on PSRC...

____________________
Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

RE: The son becomes the father?
hackbod @ 9/29/2004 4:24:04 PM #
> Everyone is confused because of "smartphone" word in news.
> I think, that PSRC just means every GSM/CDMA-connected PDA.
> As long as Treo 600 can be called both Smartphone
> (for a shape) or Communicator (for a functionality).

Yep, we consider the Treo to be a Smartphone. Basically 6.1 introduces a lot of features on top of 6.0 to support these kinds of devices: improved telephony stack and drivers, one-hand navigation, etc.

> Actually, i think, that Cobalt 6.0 simulator has NO
> multithreading at all - as long as i found NO multithread
> program-code at all (good, i could have looked bad, but:)

Cobalt from the very beginning has always supported multi-threading. Most of the APIs for this can be found in SysThread.h (for lower-level functionality) and Event.h (for new multi-threaded Event Manager APIs).

> The New Web Browser 3.0 works NOT in background mode on
> Cobalt 6.0 Simulator!

It will take time for people to write applications that fully make use of many of the new features in Cobalt.

-- Dianne


--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

RE: The son becomes the father?
Texonite @ 9/29/2004 6:17:43 PM #
Wait, is that means that those 11 smartphones, coming in 2005 are all a sort of this "Treo"-shape? Or you just don't use the word Communicator? I mean is there chance to have HiRes+ (or VGA) screen AND GSM-connectivity?
And, by the way, is there any data about average number of PDAs (with Cobalt, actually) to be released in 2005? (no, please, don't say, "asc licensees" ;)

____________________
Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(
RE: The son becomes the father?
hackbod @ 9/29/2004 7:40:54 PM #
We can't say what devices might show up. All we can say is the set of features available in the platform (including VGA screens, landscape, 32bpp color, on-hand nav, telephony stack, bluetooth, 802.11, SD/IO, etc) that licensees can use to build their devices. There is nothing about the platform that restricts the form factor of the devices that might be built, except for things like the supported screen resolutions.


--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

RE: The son becomes the father?
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 8:21:08 PM #
Hey Dianne

I can't tell you how much your presence is appreciated here, at least by me. Of course, we're largely enthusiasts and I would say people show a great deal of passion about your products, but so often it feels like both PalmSource and palmOne are unreachable. Thanks.

It was my "foolish" comment that was one of the ones you answered above. Note that I did not say you releasing an early version of Cobalt was foolish, only that you had pre-announced the date, which no doubt put artificial pressures on you as to what to include or exclude.

There is a lot of confusion now about Garnet and Cobalt, I would have to say. First we are told that the OS's are being renamed (from PalmOS 5 and 6) because they are both relevant to future devices: Garnet for SmartPhones and Cobalt for (presumably) other PDAs. Then you announce 6.1 which includes extra support for SmartPhones. However, no similar release of Garnet is made to add those very same features (none that I am aware, at least). Ya gotta expect that we would get confused by this. Why would SmartPhone manufacturers want to stick with Garnet if all the cool new development is happening only on Cobalt?

As for the "usability" of 6.0, I'm sure it was usable, to some degree. I also note that 9 months have passed since the release and there is no hint yet of a Cobalt device (and this community is not bad at ferreting out advance leaks, as you probably know). PDA's and their operating systems are pretty much your and palmOne's only products and it takes over 9 months (probably will end up being 15 months) to get a new OS into a working device?? Lucky for you that you and palmOne have become independent companies because now you can each point your finger at the other one as to why this is so.

My opinion is that this industry is moving faster than you are. Other companies like Microsoft and HP are, together, releasing a plethora of mobile devices each year, even though this is not either company's main market segment. One can argue whether this is a good thing or not, but I'd have to say the rate which the OS and devices are being advanced in the Palm world is much too slow.

Perhaps you are doing what you can within the budgets and schedules you're given and we are just a bunch of impatient early adopters! I don't know. I do know that it would go a LONG way to have the type of communication you're providing here on an on-going basis. We've gotten a rash of info from Ben Combee, from Michael Mace and from yourself over the last couple of days, coinciding with a big show. How about coming in to talk to us on a more regular basis? You don't have to give away secrets (well, one or two maybe :-). But talk to us about the things that bug us. Even little things. What about the fact you can't pull up the Command Bar when the DIA is collapsed? What about the fact you can't move to the end of a 32K memo except by a laborious scrolling process? What happened to delight the customer? What does your market research say? Are we delighted?


RE: The son becomes the father?
Gekko @ 9/29/2004 10:22:26 PM #
Customer to PalmSource: "Where are the OS6 PDAs? Weren't they supposed to be out BY NOW???"

PalmSource to Customer: "Oh we don't give out release dates on devices...you'll have to talk to PalmOne and the other licenees about that."

Customer to PalmOne: "Where are the OS6 PDAs? Weren't they supposed to be out BY NOW???"

PalmOne to Customer: "Oh we don't give out release dates on OS's...you'll have to talk to PalmSource about that."

(rinse and repeat)

RE: The son becomes the father?
Michael Mace @ 9/30/2004 7:53:28 PM #
Patrick asked:

>>First we are told that the OS's are being renamed (from PalmOS 5 and 6) because they are both relevant to future devices: Garnet for SmartPhones and Cobalt for (presumably) other PDAs. Then you announce 6.1 which includes extra support for SmartPhones. However, no similar release of Garnet is made to add those very same features (none that I am aware, at least).


I'm sorry for the confusion. I don't know how you got the message that Palm OS Garnet was for smartphones and Palm OS Cobalt was for other types of devices, but it means we did something wrong in our communication.

We went from numbers to names because it was clear that both Palm OS Garnet and Palm OS Cobalt were going to coexist in the market for some time. That's still true. But neither version of the OS is targeted intentionally at just one type of device.

I personally think Palm OS Cobalt is better for developing more innovative, advanced devices of any type -- precisely the sorts of things that take longer to develop. Meanwhile, Palm OS Garnet is great for devices that are more similar to today's handhelds and smartphones, and I think it's very good for them (look at the Treo 600). That was the positioning we tried to use with the press when we announced Palm OS Cobalt.

In practice, we're finding that new licensees who haven't done a Palm OS product before are often looking at going straight to Palm OS Cobalt. Existing licensees are sticking with Garnet longer because:

1. They have already implemented some of the features that are in Palm OS Cobalt, so they have less of a need to go there urgently (for example, palmOne has already implemented some of the wireless features we just put into Palm OS Cobalt).

2. The more custom software a licensee has done, especially software that touches the PIM databases (address book, calendar, etc), the more work they'll need to do to port that to Palm OS Cobalt, because we changed the database formats. That slows them down.

Regarding what Palm OS Cobalt 6.1 (the new one) is for, you should think of it as wireless-focused, not just smartphone-focused. It includes a lot of work on WiFi and Bluetooth (plus a lot of other new features that have nothing to do with wireless).

I hope this helps...

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

RE: The son becomes the father?
Patrick @ 9/30/2004 9:51:54 PM #
Thank you, Michael. Yes, it does help.
Likely the confusion was mine, not yours.

Here's hoping your licencees take the initiative and include the wireless hardware in their upcoming devices that's needed to complement the new wireless software you're providing in 6.1.

Cheers,
Patrick


RE: The son becomes the father?
Gekko @ 9/30/2004 10:07:07 PM #

Yes, here's hoping we see a Cobalt device soon since it's almost one year since its release. Of course, hope is not a strategy.

Excuses are like a**holes, everyone's got one.



RE: The son becomes the father?
Gekko @ 9/30/2004 10:23:32 PM #

And the facts don't lie. There are no Cobalt devices almost ONE YEAR after its introduction. Something is wrong here. Either this thing is not ready for prime time, or somebody at PalmSource is doing a really SHIITTY JOB at selling or working with licensees in getting Cobalt PDAs to market.

The excuses appear to be:
1. Well, we just create the OS, we have no control over when licensees release the new-OS device.
2. Well, we are better than MSFT because we allow licensees to customize the OS and this is why it's taking so long.

At the end of the day, results are what matter. Everything else is just conversation.



RE: The son becomes the father?
mikecane @ 10/1/2004 12:47:58 PM #
>>>2. The more custom software a licensee has done, especially software that touches the PIM databases (address book, calendar, etc), the more work they'll need to do to port that to Palm OS Cobalt, because we changed the database formats. That slows them down.

Can you elaborate on this? What exactly changed and why?

RE: The son becomes the father?
hackbod @ 10/2/2004 8:34:30 PM #
> Can you elaborate on this? What exactly changed and why?

The Cobalt PIM apps all use the new schema databases that are available there, making it tremendously easier for third party developers to add new fields to database entries. (And the Cobalt Address Book includes quite a number of new fields already.)

Schema databases also support important new features like SQL queries on their contents. They are a good example of one of the many new features in Cobalt that are not immediately very visible to end-users, but are a very significant improvement to the platform's capabilities, for both developers and users, over the long term.


--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

The Grassy Knoll of Milpitas
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/2/2004 10:48:46 PM #
Yes, here's hoping we see a Cobalt device soon since it's almost one year since its release. Of course, hope is not a strategy.

Excuses are like a**holes, everyone's got one.


And the facts don't lie. There are no Cobalt devices almost ONE YEAR after its introduction. Something is wrong here. Either this thing is not ready for prime time, or somebody at PalmSource is doing a really SHIITTY JOB at selling or working with licensees in getting Cobalt PDAs to market.

The excuses appear to be:
1. Well, we just create the OS, we have no control over when licensees release the new-OS device.
2. Well, we are better than MSFT because we allow licensees to customize the OS and this is why it's taking so long.

At the end of the day, results are what matter. Everything else is just conversation.

Ouch!

Gekko, you potty-mouth! Your Mommy needs to teach you some manners, young lady!

Some would say you have TWO a-holes. That would explain all the verbal diarrhea constantly spewing from your lips. You're not going to embarass Mike Mace and company into making the Palms of your dreams. They just don't have the funds to do überPalms - even if they wanted to - so don't bother asking. Sony is/was your only hope for cutting edge design. And guess where Sony is now?

Palm's circled the wagons and is pushing smartphones (where the money is) and (cheap) incremental upgrades of their current lineup. Prepare to be underwhelmed until the next Tapwave is released in July, 2005. Sorry, pal.


Rumor du jour: ENGLISH version of CLIE VZ90 was spotted in San Francisco last week. If some enterprising soul ;-) can obtain a ROM dump from Sony's white (pink?) elephant, Dynamism will be doing massive sales pretty soon. That's the beauty of Palm: it's so simple. (Kinda like some posters around here!)




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: The son becomes the father?
Gekko @ 10/3/2004 12:07:44 PM #
Mike Mace wrote:
>"1. They have already implemented some of the features that are in Palm OS Cobalt, so they have less of a need to go there urgently (for example, palmOne has already implemented some of the wireless features we just put into Palm OS Cobalt).
2. The more custom software a licensee has done, especially software that touches the PIM databases (address book, calendar, etc), the more work they'll need to do to port that to Palm OS Cobalt, because we changed the database formats. That slows them down."

Hey Mike - "less need to go there urgently"? "custom work slows them down"? It's been almost ONE YEAR since OS6 was released.

Why don't you just admit that you rushed to "release" OS6 so you'd make the deadline for Wall Street but it wasn't ready for prime time and then had to release a 6.1 which *maybe* now ready a YEAR later?


Cobalt 6.1: A year late and STILL M.I.A.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 6:08:41 AM #
Gekko, you ****e disturber!. Do you really think Mike is going to answer you here?

Let him do his job of CDO, (Chief Damage-control Officer) without mocking him any further...



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Cobalt 6.1: A year late and STILL M.I.A.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/7/2004 6:08:41 AM #
Gekko, you s h i t e disturber!. Do you really think Mike is going to answer you here?

Let him do his job of CDO, (Chief Damage-control Officer) without mocking him any further...



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Dianne Hackborn: Are you able to comment further on Cobalt?
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/31/2004 1:45:45 PM #
The Cobalt PIM apps all use the new schema databases that are available there, making it tremendously easier for third party developers to add new fields to database entries. (And the Cobalt Address Book includes quite a number of new fields already.)

Schema databases also support important new features like SQL queries on their contents. They are a good example of one of the many new features in Cobalt that are not immediately very visible to end-users, but are a very significant improvement to the platform's capabilities, for both developers and users, over the long term.


--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

Dianne, a few of questions:

1) When will Cobalt REALLY be finalized?
2) When will we see Cobalt SHIPPING in a real PDA?
3) Have you been seeing many legacy apps breaking under Cobalt?
4) When will all of the bugs in PalmOS 5.4 finally be fixed?
5) Do you ever get up to The City these days? ;-)

Remember, the safe word is "PPC".
;-)




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Cobalt shipping Real Soon Now!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 12/20/2005 11:57:27 PM #





------------------------
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.
------------------------

The Palm eCONomy = Communism™

The Great Palm Swindle: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=7864#108038

NetFrontLinux - the next major cellphone OS?: http://www.palminfocenter.com/comment_view.asp?ID=8060#111823

RE: Cobalt shipping Real Soon Now!
PenguinPowered @ 12/21/2005 12:07:13 AM #
Cobalt's sooo last year.

Anyway, you'll be happy to know that Mike Kelley is telling the trade press that PalmOS Linux will ship to PalmSource (Access) customers in '06, and I, for one, believe him.

Marty Fouts

I survived PalmSource '05

First Half of 2005???

Gekko @ 9/27/2004 10:27:09 PM #

"Mace added that if cellular carriers and manufacturers test the operating system and it proves to be compatible with their plans, phones using Cobalt will come out in the first half of next year. There are about 10 different phones in development using the new software."

PalmSource to unveil smart-phone software
Richard Shim, Staff Writer, CNET News.com
Published: September 27, 2004

RE: First Half of 2005???
Michael Mace @ 9/28/2004 3:35:21 AM #
Actually, those Palm Powered phones in development use a mix of Palm OS Garnet and Palm OS Cobalt.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource Inc.
At the developer conference in Munich

RE: First Half of 2005???
palmato @ 9/28/2004 9:54:37 AM #
If you want to see some live pictures, palmspirit.com has a thread with a few tantalizing images.
Just go here
http://www.forum-palmspirit.com//viewtopic.php?t=13317&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90
and following pages
The thread is in french but the images speak for themselves ;-)



------------------------
Tired of PPC? Get a TT!

RE: First Half of 2005???
alexkomorek @ 1/5/2005 4:33:09 AM #
palm os 6 will not be released until possibly as late as the end of 2006 got to http://tinyurl.com/4lq4q to find out more.

What about the T-5 ?

ozz @ 9/27/2004 11:07:01 PM #
The announcement of Cobalt 6.1 leads me to believe it is ready to go. And, if that is the case, why wouldn't they go ahead and use it in the T-5 which is hopefully being released in a month or so. If it *is* in the T-5, then that gives hope that the T-5 would also have Wifi. (ohhhh, puhleeeeze put wifi in the T-5!!)

_________________________
Lord, help me become the person my dog thinks I am!
RE: What about the T-5 ?
rikster @ 9/28/2004 12:24:50 AM #
I second that comment :-
ohhhh, puhleeeeze put wifi in the T-5!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: What about the T-5 ?
Patrick @ 9/30/2004 2:43:23 AM #
Oh, come on, folks. It is widely recognized that the licencees do tons of customization to fit the OS to a device. PalmSource is only now announcing 6.1 so it aint gonna show up in a real device for a while.

Ooh La La!

Foo Fighter @ 9/27/2004 11:15:52 PM #
I'll eat my words...Cobalt 6.1 looks tasty and delicious even without the steak sauce. The new graphical interface is much improved and badly needed. Now we play the waiting game...AGAIN!!!!

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Ooh La La!
mikecane @ 9/28/2004 6:15:10 PM #
Aw, gee, Foo. Don't be such a spoilsport. You've already been made to wait close to a year. What's ANOTHER year? Ha!

Screen resolutions

acme @ 9/27/2004 11:39:11 PM #
What really puzzles me is the different resolutions in the 3 shots. The month view and the web browser have the standard 320x480 resolution, but the middle one is 300x400, or VGA scaled down. I can't see any new device soon with that resolution having third party applications ready... is not just a double density change like the one when the T|T appeared.

Unless developers have been secretly working under a NDA lately...


RE: Screen resolutions
bcombee @ 9/28/2004 12:26:07 AM #
The Web Browser screen shot is actually Palm OS Cobalt 6.0.1 with Web Browser 3.0. You can tell by the look of the battery icon. We are currently finishing work on updating the Web Browser to work well under Palm OS Cobalt 6.1, but it wasn't available for the conference this week.

--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog
RE: Screen resolutions
bcombee @ 9/28/2004 12:29:20 AM #
Oh, I'll add that 300x400 isn't a standard screen size for Palm OS Cobalt 6.1. With that version of the OS, we target these sizes, in both portrait and landscape mode: 240x240, 240x320, 320x320, 320x350, 320x480, and 480x640.

I expect that we'll have a Palm OS Cobalt 6.1 simulator release available to developers next week, when I get back from Germany and can get it packaged and posted in the Developer Zone.

--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog

RE: Screen resolutions
svrontis @ 9/28/2004 7:13:46 AM #
Ben,

The middle picture shows a virtual graffiti area which looks like it has two fields for letters - one for upper case and one for lower case (in addition to the number input field). Is this a feature which has been announced before? Does it cater for g1 or g2 (or something else)? If you are sworn to secrecy, please say so.

Cheers.

RE: Screen resolutions
bcombee @ 9/28/2004 7:24:30 AM #
No, the split upper/lower area is a standard part of Graffiti 2; that kind of area has already been seen on devices like the Tapwave Zodiac.

--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog
RE: Screen resolutions
JonathanChoo @ 9/28/2004 7:37:50 AM #
Or the T3. On the T3 the lower case area is on the left.

The screenshot above has the upper case area on the right similar to Letter Recogniser on Pocket PCs. Hmm...

Ben, any idea on how much level of transparency we can apply to the input area? If we can.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

RE: Screen resolutions
bcombee @ 9/28/2004 8:48:08 AM #
You can pick between the Onscreen Graffiti 2 area, the old Graffiti area that displaces the window, rather than overlaying it, and an onscreen keyboard. There's no control to set the transparency, but there is an option to pick how long it stays up before disappearing.

You can also set the orientation for the status bar to left or right.

--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog

Colbalt = VGA?
Gekko @ 9/28/2004 9:23:22 AM #

Does Cobalt support VGA?



RE: Screen resolutions
Michael Mace @ 9/28/2004 12:09:21 PM #
>Does Cobalt support VGA?

Yes. Ben gave a list of the supported resolutions above.

The graphics model can scale up to something like 32,000 x 32,000. The resolutions Ben listed are the ones for which we've done all the customization work (redrawn icons, etc). A licensee can support other sizes if they want to.

Mike
CCO, PalmSource

RE: Screen resolutions
a_nonamiss @ 9/28/2004 12:58:35 PM #
OK, what's up with seemingly important people from Palm suddenly providing a lot of detailed information in the discussion forums. Don't get me wrong, it's a really nice addition to the discussion, but I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone...

:)

Arthur

Palm Pilot 1000 > Palm Pilot Professional > Palm III > Palm M100 > Sony Clié PEG-T415 > Palm T|T3

RE: Screen resolutions
Ronin @ 9/28/2004 3:11:47 PM #
actually, both these guys post here on an amzingly regular basis. Particularly, Ben.

In the Spirit of Umoja,
Ronin
RE: Screen resolutions
JonathanChoo @ 9/28/2004 3:23:44 PM #
So Mike, when will we see vector icons?

Can't wait for OS6.1 though!

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

pa1mOne posters
Wollombi @ 9/28/2004 4:16:46 PM #
They've been quiet for so long, it's a welcome change. Besides, it keeps all distracted from the T5 ;)

_________________
Sean

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

RE: Screen resolutions
bcombee @ 9/28/2004 7:31:21 PM #
One reason we're posting today is that we can. Lots of material has been held under NDA until the conference, and as good PalmSource employees, we don't leak about things that aren't public. :)

--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog
RE: Screen resolutions
Patrick @ 9/28/2004 9:41:27 PM #
Well, could you give us the email address of one of your fellow co-workers who scored "Very Low" on "Integrity" in last year's performance evaluations? :)


RE: Screen resolutions
gfunkmagic @ 9/28/2004 11:16:21 PM #
Wahoo!! All I can say is, I want one of those VGA Cobalt smartphones!!! ;)

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Screen resolutions
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/29/2004 9:55:45 PM #
>>>Well, could you give us the email address of one of your fellow co-workers who scored "Very Low" on "Integrity" in last year's performance evaluations? :)


carl.yankowski@palmsource.com


You're welcome.




******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Selectable recognizer?

Patrick @ 9/28/2004 1:04:56 PM #
There was quite a bit of grief in the user community over the change from Graffiti 1 to 2. Many thought that 2 was better, many did not. Now that the Xerox lawsuit is behind us, any chance that you'll offer a way for the user to pick the scheme of their choice?

RE: Selectable recognizer?
mikecane @ 9/28/2004 1:47:59 PM #
Oh dear God yes -- give us back Classic Graffiti! First thing I did on the TE is ditch that spawn of hell and put on G1. But I have to say the accuracy isn't what I had on my S320!

RE: Selectable recognizer?
hkklife @ 9/28/2004 3:26:02 PM #
PLEASE, for the love of every long-time user like msyelf out there, make it "official" and user-selectable!!! Don't give me a mix of G2 and G1, I want ORIGINAL G1. The only thing I'd want altered (if any) on G1 is a CrossingOver/middle area caps feature. Otherwise, leave ALL character strokes exactly as they were. I was SO content with the speed & accuracy of my old T|T but the handheld itself was so buggy and fragile that I had to move on to something newer.

Heck, I'd gladly accept G2 as the "default" recognizer and pay $20-$25 for an official plugin so that Xerox receives royalties or whatever.

The nebulous area of loading the T|T's libraries onto newer OS5 devices is shaky at best on my T3 and will not be an option in the future as OS 5.x and OS 6 devices take hold. This matter needs to be resolved ASAP as there are probably oodles of non-techie Palm V/m500/T|T holdouts who are getting ready to upgrade. They must't lose faith in the platform over a non-issue like G1 vs. G2!

RE: Selectable recognizer?
JonathanChoo @ 9/28/2004 3:34:22 PM #
I use TealScript - a combination of Graffiti one and Grafitti two. I like some of G2's feature but prefer G1 more. TealScript gave the best of both World.
RE: Selectable recognizer?
hkklife @ 9/28/2004 4:55:12 PM #
Sigh...Everytime I squeal and hope that someone from PalmSource hears me, someone else mentions Tealscript. Am I the only one out there who cannot stand TealScript? It's slow, inaccurate, and gets flaky in full-screen T3 mode. Even if you pare it down to the bone and tell it to not keep track of input stats, it's still far slower than a T|T running G1 native or a newer OS5 model with native G2.

While TS is an admirable effort, it's still a compromise. It'd be like telling someone who had typed for years on an ergonomic Qwerty to go to a straight Dvorak keyboard but not to worry, you could reassign everything in software and to just ignore whatever writing is on the actual keys! Oh, and if you
typed too fast, certain characters would be missed!


Nope, I want the real thing. I gave G2, TealScript, Silkyboard overlays, thumbboards, Jot! and everything else imaginable a shot. I still PREFER G1!

Well of course I have a gripe!

mikecane @ 9/28/2004 1:49:08 PM #
I still see NO icon in the Status Bar to call up the Command Bar without first having to call up the Soft Graffiti area.

Grrr... why is this so difficult to understand?

Otherwise, this looks very very interesting and I hope it will increase the PalmOS installed base by jillions.

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
kevdo @ 9/28/2004 2:53:26 PM #
Command Bar? What are you talking about?

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion
RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
JonathanChoo @ 9/28/2004 3:29:16 PM #
If you make a stroke on the grafitti area, there is a command where there are icons for cut, copy and paste. Some applications such as audio players also have play/stop icons there.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i
RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
Patrick @ 9/28/2004 3:37:11 PM #
Make a graffiti stroke from the lower left to the upper right. Up pops the command bar.

Mike's (and a lot of other people's) gripe is that there is no officially supported way to access the command bar when the graffiti area is hidden (collapsed DIA or collapsed slider, for example). Popping up the command bar really ought to be a status bar function.


RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
mikecane @ 9/28/2004 6:09:23 PM #
My God!! *USERS* understand!! Someone else understands!! It's not me going crackers!! Nyahahahahaha!!

Seriously, take a page from The Great God Rob Haitani, PalmSource People:

>>>Ed Colligan came up with a mantra that guided Haitani, and soon the entire team, in his design decisions: "Delight the customer." Delighting the customer meant minimizing the number of steps required to perform some function, putting the options the customer wanted right under his or her nose, doing the right thing.

>>>Along these lines, Haitani developed a religion of counting taps. The idea was to reduce the number of steps to achieve any function to the absolute minimum, even avoiding the use of the stylus, when possible (making a button big enough to tap with your finger, for example).

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=3129

My God, get rid of that extra, unnecessary tap to get at the Command Bar! There are times when all I want to do is Copy/Paste when looking at a 320x480 screen of text (well, OK this is a future vision, but I've done it in stores!) and not have to pop up the damned DIA and cover part of what I want to highlight!

Savvy?

And while we're at it, dammit, we Really Do Need a Go To Top/Go To Bottom menu selection (or better yet: bottom icons!) in Memos/Memo Pad now (the 32K flavor)!

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
gfunkmagic @ 9/28/2004 11:14:16 PM #
Mike, if you want a bottom icon for the command bar, use ZLauncher!! There's a option to add a command bar icon in ZLauncher and I use it all the time! :)

I support http://Tapland.com/

--------------------
GNM

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 1:21:31 AM #
I use ZLauncher and its not a great solution for this since it only works when you're in the launcher. That's not where most things get done on a PDA (hopefully).

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
mikecane @ 9/29/2004 10:20:04 AM #
Yes, I want my Command Bar slash icon to be available in *all* apps where I'd need or want to invoke the Command Bar (not just for Cut/Copy/Paste -- Wassup and ClipPro are invoked via the Command Bar too!).

I see PalmSource has gone silent.

You can email Ryan for my address to send the check for my consulting fee. Nyaahahaha. (Or you can just email a picture of hackbod. Oh, will I get it now!)

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
hackbod @ 9/29/2004 3:41:54 PM #
Hi Mike,

If you look at the screen shots, you might notice that the status bar is already quite packed with stuff. The little room there is primo realestate, and I assume that the perceived value of such an icon is just a little too low to dedicate the space for it.

That being said, if you really want this icon on your device, here is what you can do:

(1) Buy a Cobalt device when it comes out.
(2) Enable the hidden terminal slip by writing "shortcut . t" into a field.
(3) Open the terminal slip, and write the following (this will probably get mangled by the discussion system, sorry):

$ commandviewattributes=@{
focus_indicator_bounds_adjustment -> (point)(3,-1),
surface->$[inspect /services/surface palmos.view.ISurface],
charCode->(uint16_t)0x0106,
highlight-inset -> { left -> 1.0db, right -> 1.0db, top -> 2.5db, bottom -> 2.0db }
bitmaps->{normal->{
db-type->'libr', db-creator->'stsb',
resource-id->1140, resource-type->'Tbmp'
} },
}
$ new -p /services/status_bar/right/command palmos.services.StatusBar.StatusBarBitmapView $commandviewattributes

If you need to make room for it and would prefer this over another icon, you can remove the other. For example to get rid of the time icon:

$ rm /services/status_bar/tray/clock


--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
Patrick @ 9/29/2004 8:52:51 PM #
Wow. Real code. I'm very impressed!!!

But... you can't say the status bar is packed. For example, why not bring up the Command Bar with tap-and-hold on the menu icon? No extra status bar space required.

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 9/29/2004 10:06:15 PM #
D, you forgot a bracket.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
Texonite @ 9/30/2004 1:48:34 PM #
Dianne, I'm very glad to see this info (i'm gonna save it in a special hidden place on my PC ;-). Thank You. Is there a place, where can we find more of that, or is it a sort of internal company information?

About realisation of Command Bar pop-up - can't this be made with same stroke just beginned in Status bar? As I read in Documentation, we can chase penDownEvent within Status Bar orders, and penUpEvent out of there (and, maybe, a bit at the right) Is there a mechanism to do that by entering something in this "hidden slip"?

By the way, what can You recommend to read for the beginner about programming in Cobalt? Some fresh book with samples?

Ow, i saw the PalmSource category on the Discussion Forums, is that a place for all of us to go to more often? :)

____________________
Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
mikecane @ 9/30/2004 6:19:57 PM #
What? You expect me to do c-o-d-e? I can't even do Morse.

I don't forsee needing Bluetooth (except for when I'd REALLY need it -- but are there a slew of BT-equipped printers coming out?), and gladly swap that icon out for the UpStroke.

Thanks.

I guess this means no picture, huh?

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
bcombee @ 10/1/2004 2:07:35 PM #
I just tried this on the Palm OS 6.1 simulator, and it worked perfectly. Every once in a while, I'm reminded of how cool our engineering staff is here at PalmSource. Hopefully, we can get a lot of this Binder Shell stuff documented and available to power users soon.

--
Ben Combee
http://palmos.combee.net - PDA programmer weblog
RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
mikecane @ 10/1/2004 5:17:27 PM #
Hell, Ben, I never thought they were slackers. They have Apple and Be pedigrees!

Won't I have to create a bitmap to fit in there (as if I could ever get that spaghetti to work for *me*!)?

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
hackbod @ 10/2/2004 8:45:36 PM #
I should clarify that I never intended that code as something I think end-users should have to deal with. I was just trying to give an example of how much flexibility exists in the system (though unfortunately much isn't documented at this point), so our developers can easily do some neat stuff.

Take that code as "hey, it's a couple lines of code to make this change, so you can expect that some enterprising developer will give you a little PRC you can install that does it." Complete with its own custom icon. :)

As for variations on this -- press and hold or press and stroke up on the menu icon to show the command bar -- those are all good ideas. They are not as immediately easy to do especially for third party developers (you'll probably need to write some code using currently private APIs instead of just a little shell script), but this is far from something that requires a whole new OS release to add...


--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

Hacking the Palm OS to bits
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/2/2004 10:35:03 PM #
D, I'd suggest you ask Ryan at Palminfocenter to delete this thread before some newbies blow up their Palms trying to show off their h@

I hope Mike Cane doesn't creep you out as much as he does a lot of people here. His nerdy attempts at sexist comments are really getting tiresome, but I guess this shows what a loser he is.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

.
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/2/2004 11:37:45 PM #
"trying to show off their h @ < k k 0 r 5k1LLz"



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: Well of course I have a gripe!
Texonite @ 10/3/2004 10:24:35 AM #
> but this is far from something that requires a whole new OS release to add... <

If that would be in a real PDA, that would be GREAT (as well as documentation). I knew, that Cobalt was intended as flexible OS (thouse Slip-windows, Pinlets and so on), but i never thought, that would be SO flexible.

I've tryed that on 6.0.1, but i was a bit laizy, so i couldn't get through ;) Therefore (as long as you can affect development) i ask, if it's possible to add some simple history, text selection and mainly cut/paste functions in this hidden slip (if it's not in 6.1)

And one question more, who actually writes documentation? I mean are that the same people, who write code, or somebody else?

____________________
Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

what i think will happen....

hyperdaz @ 9/28/2004 5:24:31 PM #
I was thinking the other night =maybe I was just dreaming but= if there is a T5 as posted around the place it would be really silly having the os called OS6 for the T5... Or these where my conclusions...

It would make more sence to have a T6 with OS6 media bundle...

look at how many people are all frenzied to go in these forums to purchase the next release....

Could the next release just be a T3.5 called the T5...

And next year in April the real machine is unvailed????

I DO HOPE I AM WRONG AND THIS WAS JUST ME DREAMING....

I also hope the next machine will include this lovely "USER" interface...

I just dont know how long my TT will do day2day service anymore... had to remove games yesterday... (no Memory)

expectations are the highest they have ever been for a top of the line handheld...
bluetooth - internal wifi
vga screen
256mb memory
OS6.1 ;)
new key layout

what other improvements could be added to make it the king of all handhelds.. surely thats what palm should be looking for...

RE: what i think will happen....
HiWire @ 9/28/2004 11:32:27 PM #
Needs improved battery life :-)

Palm m505 User
RE: what i think will happen....
hyperdaz @ 9/29/2004 11:48:04 AM #
I knew I forgot something important.... :) :D

WIFI - playing mp3's n music is important :D

:)

OS6 PDA WHEN???

Gekko @ 9/28/2004 7:40:13 PM #
The KEY question is this. WHEN will we see an OS6 PDA??? Shouldn't they be here by now?

Customer to PalmSource: "Where are the OS6 PDAs? Weren't they supposed to be out BY NOW???"

PalmSource to Customer: "Oh we don't give out release dates on devices...you'll have to talk to PalmOne and the other licenees about that."

Customer to PalmOne: "Where are the OS6 PDAs? Weren't they supposed to be out BY NOW???"

PalmOne to Customer: "Oh we don't give out release dates on OS's...you'll have to talk to PalmSource about that."

THESE FRIGGIN GUYS ARE UNBELIEVABLE.



RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Calroth @ 9/28/2004 9:04:37 PM #
Score:-1, Unintelligible
RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Gekko @ 9/28/2004 9:20:57 PM #

I'll write in Chinee next time so you can understand it.

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
LiveFaith @ 9/28/2004 10:38:21 PM #
I don't even think Chinee will work. That was just a bad excuse for a conversation.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Gekko @ 9/28/2004 10:43:57 PM #

forget about Cobalt 6.1.

WHERE ARE THE COBALT 6.0 PDA'S??????????

Is that f****** crystal f****** clear enough?

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
mikecane @ 9/29/2004 10:23:02 AM #
I think what will happen is what is known as The Bus Effect. You wait and wait and wait for a damned bus to arrive and then FOUR of them arrive at once. I think Gekko in a few months will be complaining that he *CAN'T DECIDE WHICH* Cobalt device he wants to buy.

It's simple Gekko: BUY THEM ALL.

Anything to keep you away from Dell!

(I'd pass out if *Dell* actually put out a Cobalt device -- hmmm, is that Michael Mace with a knowing smirk on his face?)

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Gekko @ 9/29/2004 10:45:08 AM #

I think the bus crashed.

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Texonite @ 9/30/2004 3:13:49 PM #
Great, Mike ;-) ROFL, i would say ;-)

No, Gekko, really, think of all those 11 POS Smartphones - i hope at least half of them will be with Cobalt! Just a little bit of patience...

____________________
Future Online!
Sorry for my bad english :(

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
mikecane @ 9/30/2004 6:21:58 PM #
>>>I think the bus crashed.


Gekko is too much. Didn't its license plate read WinCE?

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Foo Fighter @ 9/30/2004 9:54:55 PM #
Ha! More like WinCE ran over a little old lady on the way here, and Cobalt stopped to make sure she is alright. While Symbian ran off with her purse!

Sorry, that's the PalmOS depravation talking. I'm starting to behave like Jeff Hawkins...carrying around a block of wood pretending its a Palm! My kingdom for a Palm!!!

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Gekko @ 9/30/2004 10:10:29 PM #

Until I actually hold a Cobalt device in my hands, it's all just fun and games. VAPORWARE.



RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
mikecane @ 10/1/2004 12:50:10 PM #
I didn't know Gekkos had hands. But I digress.

I still think that next year (Wait Until Spring, Bandini), we will have a surplus of devices.

And MS will wonder WTF hit them.

WHY NO COBALT 6 PDA
Gekko @ 10/2/2004 11:23:56 AM #

I think PalmSource squandered their time through mismanagement and incompetence and inefficiency and then rushed Cobalt just to be able to say that they met the deadline (on paper) even though it wasn't ready for prime time. That's why we see no Cobalt devices almost ONE YEAR after release. Think about it, when MSFT releases a new version of Windows, how long is it before DELL puts out a PC with it? Sure, there's customization involved but it doesn't take ONE YEAR. And are you telling me that ALL LICENSEES had to do ONE YEAR+ of customization???? This excuse does not pass the smell test. Don't lie to me, Mace!!!!

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
mikecane @ 10/2/2004 6:03:11 PM #
Oh stop. It's an open secret that Cobalt was shipped "on time" just to frustrate my past Prediction that it would be late. (Ha!)

If we see 6.1 as the "real" Cobalt, then I was more than correct!

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
hackbod @ 10/2/2004 8:54:53 PM #
6.0 (actually 6.0.1) was not released in such shape that it can't be shipped on devices. The worst you could say is that 6.1 contains many features that we would have liked to include in 6.0 (the new UI look and additional screen resolutions are the ones I am most familiar with) but had to drop to meet the schedule. None of these dropped features were critical to the product, however.


--
Dianne
PalmSource Application Frameworks Manager

RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
Gekko @ 10/3/2004 11:13:09 AM #

Hey Diane - "Don't tell me about the pain, just show me the baby."



RE: OS6 PDA WHEN???
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/9/2004 4:58:22 PM #
Despite his crude, dimwitted methods, Geeko is correct about PalmOS 6. The original version was NRFPT (not ready for prime time) and now the company most capable of exploiting its abilities (Sony) has waved the white flag and left the building along with Elvis.

D., enough with the excuses and the delays. Palm/Pa1mOne/paLm0N3/pALmOnE/PalmSource/etc. need to get their act together and release the REAL Tungsten T5 with PalmOS 6.1 and hardware that's at least as good as what the PPC vendors will be offering this Fall. ASAP. With as many former Apple employees as we have at Palm still it's amazing that the company seems doomed to repeat Apple's slow death spiral.

And - while it will never happen - it would be nice to see our good friends, Jeff, Donna and David hold off on sucking the life blood out of Palm by continuing to cash in MILLIONS in stock options every few months. Don't ya think?

;-)

See you Monday



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

It really is very nice to see PalmSource folks here...

JohnM @ 10/8/2004 6:56:20 AM #
Hi,

Many thanks for both your presence, and words. I was also very
surprised and glad to see that "terminal slip" shell code posted.

John Miskinis

Independent Palm Software Developer

Where's the hardware ???

lucifer @ 10/8/2004 10:12:51 AM #
Nice eye-candies. But where's the hardware???

Cobalt 6.0 was released Nov/Dec 2003, yet after one year of so-called development, we see a ho-hum T5 with OS 5.4.

I am keeping my expectation and opinion of Palm-One/-Source very low nowadays after T5.

Looks like my SJ-30 and me will probably go together a long way yet, which is fine with me.

Just want to sign off with my PDA history

banker @ 10/11/2004 11:44:40 AM #
Well I am one who is NOT going to buy the T5. Me no idiot.

banker

HP100LX(star-DOS)>HP200LX(star!-DOS)>HP620LX(lemon-WinCE)>Everex A15(lemon!-WinCE)>IBMPC110(star!-Win95)>REX(lemon!???)>Palm III(lemon-Palm OS)>IBM PC110(star!-Win95)>Palm V (star-Palm OS)>Palm Vx (star-Palm OS)>Palm m505 (star-Palm OS)>Palm m515 (star-Palm OS)>Compaq Ipaq 3850 (lemon!-PocketPC2000)> Palm TT (star-Palm OS) > Palm TT3 (star!-Palm OS)....I am not going back to a lemon. Any else with a longer PDA history?

Objective

RE: Just want to sign off with my PDA history
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/11/2004 5:27:41 PM #
Beat this, punk:

Crayola crayon + paper -> Crayola crayon + wall -> pencil + paper -> pen + paper -> Pen + Palm™ of my hand - especially during tests (shoulda patented the name...) -> pen + scraps of paper -> pen + napkins -> Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 -> Pilot 5000 (with memory upgrade?) -> Palm Pilot Professional -> Palm IIIx -> TRGpro -> CLIE S300 + Palm IIIxe (backup) -> TRGpro -> CLIE S320 -> TRGpro -> HandEra 330 -> HandEra 330 (just too fugly to show in public + negatively impacted attractiveness to the opposite sex) -> TRGpro -> CLIE SJ33 -> CLIE TG50 -> CLIE UX50

And that doesn't include minor toys like the REX, Vx, Palm VIIx, IIIe SE, CLIE N710, CLIE TH55, and a few nameless WinCE/PPC.

Are you speaking to ME? Are you speaking to ME? Go back to your Mommy. Punk.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Which is the REAL OS 6.1?

mikecane @ 10/13/2004 9:04:15 AM #
Did anyone look at the bottom of the three screen snaps? There are different icons down there. One of which is LANDSCAPE. Another I can't figure out at all... is it a globe or what?

Why are there different bottom icons?

Palm OS6.1

MarinaKarin @ 10/22/2004 5:45:55 AM #
This looks great. Hoping now to see to see the real successor of the T3 (for me the T5 is a E2).
I will be one of the first to buy it. PalmOne pls keep the slider for the Tungsten series !

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