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    Comments on: palmOne Tungsten T5 Handheld ReviewThe Tungsten T5 is the latest handheld from palmOne. The T5 features 256MB of Flash memory, a 416MHz processor, a large 320x480 pixel display and Bluetooth wireless in a compact and stylish design. How well does the T5 hold up on its own...? Read on for the in-depth review.
Detailed Comment View (199 Total Comments)
The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. PIC is not responsible for them in any way. login or register for free in order to post comments.  RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?Strider_mt2k @ 10/13/2004 6:15:29 AM #
They HAD to mess with our ability to use G1, but couldn't get the datebook app right? And yes, I'm also suprised that it's merely USB 1.1 with it being touted as a drive, but it will be far more compatible with older computers that way, so I can't cry foul there. RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?
USB 2.0 is backwards compatible with USB 1.1, so there's no loss of compatibility by using standard USB 2.0. Also, Bluetooth 1.1? Every new PocketPC has the Bluetooth 1.2 spec already. And no drivers for the WiFi card 'yet'? That traditionally means Palm has no intention of developing them in a reasonable timeframe. RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?
You’re kidding. No Graffiti? I tried Jot (opps, “Graffiti 2”), and it’s just ignorant compared with Graffiti. Add to that no voice recorder, and Palm has no sale. I *love* PalmOS, but it’s time for me to try out an Axim (and hope WinCE isn’t so horrible that I want to put up with palmOne’s failings). RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?
You guys are 100% right. Uncustomizable Grafitti? USB 1.1? Bluetooth 1.1??? Come on now Palm, this is stuff people have wanted for years. PalmOne needs to stop half stepping, because they're falling behind at an alarming pace. It used to be that Palm was the company you went to when you wanted to choose among the most innovative products, but I've seen nothing but slipups in the past 3 years. I've been waiting ever since I bought my Treo 90 for a unit that's worth my hard-earned cash, and I'm still waiting. I would have loved to have bought the T|C, but the scaled back multimedia features as compared with the Zire 71 made me pause. I've been pausing ever since. Instead of integrating features and releasing the killer handhelds they need to release, they've been holding back, counting on early adopters to buy the great new incrementally better (but in some ways worse) model and the others to either settle later or hold out. I wonder do they see what I see, because I see all the power users I know leaving Palm to buy the newest Pocket PC's, which have all the hardware features they want, but at a much cheaper price than the Palm unit that even comes close. This model shouldn't even be called the T5. It's more like the T|E2. Why doesn't Palm just bite the bullet and release the killer machine they know they could? Many people have lost their patience. I just hope that the OS 6 Cobalt vapor coalesces into the unit that I've been waiting for all this time. The author of DateBk 5 apparently feels the T5 is crapThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/22/2004 5:55:24 AM #
CESD (the well-respected author of DateBk 5) reportedly said this about the Tungsten 5:
Ok, I have now confirmed that yes, the reason the T5 is so slow is that their revised DM Patch DOES put the PalmSource database in Flash Rom. It is cached into Ram, but when the database is opened or closed, everything has to be copied into the much slower Flash Rom - hence the performance hit. And even simple requests for records end up going to Flash Rom - thereby VFSDBCache.c, Line:6761, DeleteRecord() called on invalid record I was puzzled as to who was calling VFS since the DatebookDB database appears to be in RAM, but it apparently ends up calling VFS routines that access the internal flash drive, and there's obviously some bug whereby the DM Patch gets confused and messes up the record number for deletion. At this point, it looks like the T5 may not be a good choice for those Palm Users who have an interest in running any third party software that accesses the standard PalmSource databases. If you like the general form factor, you would probably be much better off with a Sony Th-55 and a 1gb Memory stick for around the same price. I am of course revisiting the whole issue of supporting these undocumented, proprietary databases that PalmOne now seems determined on using, but this is not a trivial undertaking as it would require that support be added for all four proprietary databases - something that would require a parallel development effort and separate versions of the software. I have ordered a I am disappointed that PalmOne is not only going against the philosophy of the Palm OS being an open platform by using proprietary databases, but that they also seem to think that providing support for third party applications (at least as good as older devices provided ) in this "compatibility mode" is no longer much of a priority either... Cheers! > Anyone having a problem with their T5. You and everyone who has bought one > I had to get the update for the T5 because it would have Fatal Errors each time I would use DateBk5. But after the update I still have a problem with it locking-up after I put an appointment down in the calendar. That's because the update does nothing to fix any of the bugs in the PalmOne DataManager patch. Just hold on some 24 hours or so as I will be posting a maintenance release VERY SHORTLY that talks directly to the proprietary calendar and memo databases thereby sidestepping their DataManager patch (several people have been testing this for me and all of them indicate it With the T5, the Datamanager patch has moved IMHO from a designation of "kludge" to "worthless kludge" - it's basically unusable - not only because the performance is so bad, but because it was inadequately tested and has too many bugs to be considered a usable piece of software. Among the very obvious problems when you try and use DateBk5 on a Tungsten T5 (or forthcoming Treo650) are: 1) Slow exit out of DateBk5 (One time, I clocked it at over 35 seconds!!). VFSBCache.c,line:6761 DeleteRecord()called and invalid record The T5 is a nice looking device and has some nice features, but the testing was poor and this is by far the buggiest device that we've ever seen from a Palm licensee. I suspect there is a VERY good reason why PalmOne has announced the Treo650 (which uses the same architecture) but no carriers have started to make it available for sale(!). I have to say that in ten minutes of testing after I got this device, I noted FOUR very obvious bugs, which leaves me at a loss to explain how a device like this could be released with such obvious errors - it does make you wonder if anyone even looked at this device before it was put up for sale... Finally, while I may "Fix" DateBk5, this will not "fix" any other third party apps that use the built-in, standard Palmsource databases. So if you depend upon a third party addressbook app or memo app, or something like ToDO+, etc. you may well want to forgo the T5 (and the forthcoming Treo650)
 It's good to hear it's not a bad unit..........but....m130fullbutcontent @ 10/13/2004 5:42:23 AM #
Not wishing Palm OS to get wiped out by Mr Gates pda OS type I'm glad to hear that this unit has much good about it. It remains though astonishing that the T5 has been stripped of such previously established standard 'high end pda'features as the 'vibrating alert' and voice recorder and that If palmOnes market research is right and these T5's confound the critics and sell huge numbers like the basic 'Zires' have then I will applaud them - and then hope they put their resulting profits into new more attractive models like the T3 & Zire 72 which attract rather more the enthusiam from the loyal & experienced Palm OS pda community. RE: It's good to hear it's not a bad unit..........but....
Excellent review, I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on one for a test drive before making any further comments. Ryan's observation, "The Tungsten E has been a big success for palmOne, becoming the top selling handheld every quarter since its introduction over a year ago," certainly explains much of Palm management's rationale. Perhaps doesn't excuse the lack of a couple of high-end features that were expected and the surprisingly high introductory price -- but maybe the price will drop a lot when the "gotta have one first" geeks have spent their bucks. RE: It's good to hear it's not a bad unit..........but....
All this about the T5 being a result of the popularity of the TE just doesn't wash with me! The TE is a 'low end' model. It has been targeted aggressively with its pricing. Why wouldn't it be popular or fly off the shelves like the old zire. It does not mean that the design is therefor great for a high end model. Lack of voice recorder and slider is a real set back.
USB 1.1 (why not 2.0?) and Bluetooth 1.1 ... !!!! From what i have seen on Tottenham CT road the TE is a favourite with many, in particular women. I myself have bought the girlfriend a TE. Men seem to be going for higher specified models (I have a T3). I dont think the popularity of cheaper models and their designs/functions have necessarily anything to do with what makes higher end models more salesworthy. Their popularity is due mainly to price.
Pictures
Thank you for the best pictures of the device available thus far on the net!
Sincerely,
Customer Research
Excellent review, as always. Just one comment: "Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done." All I can say is ... wow. I can only imagine the customer research being done inside palmOne. Perhaps ... darts at the wall? Maybe they have office pools and pick amongst themselves for the study ... RE: Customer Research
>>>"Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done." They've got to get a better pool of customers to ask, dammit! Put ME in that pool! And, geez, the hp 41xx (47xx?, the numbers all bleed together after a while...) that had BT *and* WiFi wasn't exactly a brick! RE: Customer Research
Plus we are talking about a technology they fit onto an SD card... We can't honestly be talking about adding the kind of size and weight that would have the folks interested in this kind of feature saying, "Man, I wish Palm had left out the Wifi so I could carry around a separate Wifi Card that sticks out the top of my machine when I use it..." Ever since the First Tungsten I have found Palm's refusal to include BT and WiFi on one machine downright frustrating... I was waiting for a T5, but I have a feeling I'll be buying the T3 since it will be cheaper and is a bit smaller when not extended... RE: Customer Research
>>>Plus we are talking about a technology they fit onto an SD card... Banging my head against the wall: Why do I keep forgetting that bit?! RE: Customer Research
Well, actually, I think they are right. I find it upsetting how Palms have gotten larger and larger. Especially see the comparison! I really liked the Palm Vx (own one for many years). The T|T (also got one)... too thick already! Now comes the T5... same thickness but even longer.... Definitely, bigger = worse. HOWEVER! Palm makes a big wrong assumption: That adding a second radio would increase the size? How come we get Palm V-sized Pockets PCs with Dual wireless?!?! I have a feeling that the hardware development department has been cut a LOT at Palm... The Tungsten T5 hardware is definitely NOT competitive. OTOH... that whole flash drive IS pretty cool.... No more lost memory every.... nice! RE: Customer Research
I wasn't a fan of Wi-Fi on a PDA, but now that the battery is a bit more robust, I have to ask "WTF?!" An SD chip hanging out of the slot just doesn't appeal to me. The T5 appears to be about the size of my old iPAQ, and that's just a bit big for my taste. Perhaps it's a little thinner. I'll look for it in the stores, but I don't feel my wallet working its way out of my pocket. RE: Customer ResearchFoo Fighter @ 10/13/2004 10:27:07 AM #
>>> "Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done." That is a load of horse poop. Does PalmOne not realize that other PDA vendors are doing this now, and for less money than they are charging for T5? Confucious say..man who says it cannot be done should not interrupt man who is doing it. RE: Customer ResearchAlchemist42 @ 10/13/2004 10:49:11 AM #
Palm really needs to take a look at what their doing and where their going... The T5 sounds like a fairly solid machine by all accounts but its a T-E2 not in any sense a high end T-3 replacement. Palm announces the T5, and a week later Dell comes out with their latest Pocket PC with 192mb memory (between flash and ram) dual wireless (Wifi/Bluetooth), dual expansion slots (SD, CF) removable battery with a 2200ma extended availabe, 624mhz CPU, and the real kicker their high end model ($100 moer than palm) has a 640x480 display! Palm needs a wireless PDA with a 320x480 dispaly. RE: Customer Research
Ed Colligan recently noted that the Tungsten C has only been a modest seller, implying that the market for integrated WiFi wasn't that big. Of course, there are a lot of people who have avoided the Tunsten C due to a couple of "deal breaker" reasons: Now, if PalmOne released a T5 type device with WiFi and then it didn't sell then I would back them on this line of argument. But until they do... RE: Customer Research
I too had been waiting for this new machine to come out. I'm long past due to upgrade (Sony T615) but I was so disappointed when the T5 came out that I started to look at the T3 again, couldn't they even put a voice recorder in the T5? Well, with the price drop and a little bargaining, I was able to pick up a T3 at CompUSA for $336. I wish it had wi-fi in it, but I can live with the card sticking out for now. In a few years when I upgrade again maybe Palm will have the right machine out. I had been looking at PPC, but no matter how impressive the hardware is, I could NOT bring myself to do it.... RE: Customer Research
They claim that addinging WI-FI would add size weight and cost. With the price they are selling it for it should have had WI-FI anyway. As for size the palmone WI-FI card is only 3mm thick and how much can a technology that fits on an SD card really weigh? A tenth of an ounce. I think Palmone is being cheap and just trying to sell more WI-FI cards. RE: Customer Research
[quote] They claim that addinging WI-FI would add size weight and cost. With the price they are selling it for it should have had WI-FI anyway. As for size the palmone WI-FI card is only 3mm thick and how much can a technology that fits on an SD card really weigh? A tenth of an ounce. I think Palmone is being cheap and just trying to sell more WI-FI cards.[/quote] Because it was probably not the wifi card itself that he was talking about but the size of the device after you add a larger battery so that a person can use the wifi for at least a few hours a day and not be pissed off that they need to charge it again, like the TC does. A battery that does that will make the device larger and less able to stay at a lower price point. RE: Customer Research
As someone who has worked in customer research for over 10 years, I can speak to this topic with some experience. It is clear that they need a new company to do their work. From the outside looking in, you can tell that either the research company was given a microscopic budget by PalmOne to do this (possible) or that the company did some key things wrong (more likely). First, you want to interview the likely market for the T5. As we can all agree, the T5 customer is very different from their TE customer -- by design. Therefore, palmOne needs to do a distinct study with only the highest end consumer, one crazy enough (like me) to spend almost $400 for a handheld computer. You could interview current T3 users (most likely to buy a T5) or PocketPC users (who might switch, not now of course). My guess is that the research company interviewed all potential PDA owners instead of the high-end folks. Second, you need to ask the right questions. Simply asking someone in the abstract would they be more/less likely to buy a handheld if it had a larger body/Wi-Fi tradeoff is elementary grade school research. It doesn't mean anything. You need to find out what the top features are that people want (expectations), what they have now that they like (satisfiers), and what they would be mad about if it changed (dissatisfiers). It's clear that Wi-Fi and OS 6.0 were expectations, the large screen was a satisfier, and the potential loss of vibrating alarms (standard on any cell phone) is a dissatisfier. Elementary, my dear palmOne biz exec. Third, you need to test the product on a storyboard or -- better -- with a prototype. Yes, this would have tipped palmOne's hand to the general public (even if they lawyer the respondent to death, it will leak out). But, frankly, I would be encouraged that they were reaching out to customers and trying out ideas instead of zapping millions from their bottom line. The big lie is that it takes a bundle of money to do good customer research. It doesn't. If palmOne wanted to spend millions on developing a T5, they could have spent 1% of their budget on customer reseach and found out what we all know now -- this thing is a dud. Sad, but preventable. -- Michael, VP at a U.S. customer research firm. RE: Customer Research
"According to palmOne, they chose Bluetooth because it is now becoming widely available on a variety of consumer products and on the latest cell phones. Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done."
My Fujitsu-Siemens Loox 720: 4.8 x 2.8 x 0.60 Dual Slot/Dual Wireless (Bluetooth v1.2) palmOne Tungsten T5: 4.76 x 3.08 x .61 Single Slot/Bluetooth Only (v1.1) PalmOne, Don't insult our intelligence.
Excellent review
This is a great review. I was going to write something about the reviews on PalmInfocenter getting better, but I just realised that they've been consistently good for a while now (I also recall the Zire 72 and Clie TH55 reviews, also excellent). So keep up the good work! RE: Excellent review
Hi, About halfway down the review, the following sentence appears: "The new Favorites is a simple application that acts much like I think this might be a typo that you may want to correct. OR, I I wish I had a T5, my IIIc is very limiting, John Miskinis RE: Excellent reviewStrider_mt2k @ 10/13/2004 11:23:29 AM #
No it is actually a luncher, as the unit bites.
(bah dum bum)
Still can't sort
You complained about the ancient DateBook alarm, but what about the fact that you still cannot sort the Contacts by first name? And you still can't sort the ToDo list alphabetically. I should be able to sort on any field. How hard is that? Am I the only one who likes to sort stuff different ways? When I show off my pda to non-pda users and tell them that it is not possible to sort Contacts by first name or the ToDo list alphabetically, they think I'm joking. Everyone else is worried about the lack of wifi and the missing voice recorder -- I just want to sort my contacts by first name. (Yea, I know third party pim replacements can do it, but that's not really my point.) RE: Still can't sort
I don't understand the need for this. Can you provide examples of how it would be handy? RE: Still can't sort
Hmmm, maybe I AM the only one who likes to sort stuff lots of different ways. I was stunned when I got my first Palm because the first thing I did was try to sort stuff, and the sort options were laughably limited -- and they still are. Now I use Supernames, which not only lets me sort by any column, it also lets me have each category sorted differently. So some of my categories are sorted by last name, but others, such as my poker buddies are sorted by first name -- it's not a big deal, it's just the way I like to view them. Also, all my neighbors are sorted by street address, because that's just easier for me. In Outlook, Contacts can be sorted by any column. In fact, sub-sorts are also possible. I also use sorting for quality control. It's easier for me to make sure I didn't miss anybody if I can sort my lists a few different ways. What can I say -- I just like to sort stuff -- it's one reason I love computers. I just can't believe I'm limited to two sort options in Palm, "Last Name, First Name" or "Company, Last Name". Maybe that would be ok in version 1.0, but after all these years, why couldn't they add some other sort options? RE: Still can't sort
I see your point now. Thanks. >>>Maybe that would be ok in version 1.0, but after all these years, why couldn't they add some other sort options? Now I wonder if PalmSource has added anything like this to the Cobalt version of the Contacts program? Maybe you should email them! RE: Still can't sort
Sorting todos alphabetically.... This is the most important thing for me, but even 3rd party apps don't do it. If one did, I'd buy the app immediately! The reason is that I want to be able to order within a priority. E.g. If there are 10 things to do today, I rank them as priority #1, but they are not ordered according to what I want to do first, or at least see first on the list. I could fix that by putting 1_Shower; 2_Put on pants; 3_Put on shoes; 4_Tie shoes; 5_Go to work; 6_Sleep; 7_Go Home from work. Sort by priority/alpha and it's more useful to me. But I guess I must be one of the few people that cares or we would have seen it in some 3rd party todo apps. P.S. Now I feel like I'm following you Mike! But it's good to see people active on the forums. RE: Still can't sort
I'd like a First Name Sort option too. In fact, I've been entering contact info (and even my Artists info for CDs) by first name for years. For me, it makes it much more intuitive. If I had several (or even a few) first names that were similar, it *might* be a different story. RE: Still can't sort
Can't but agree - as I have voiced here previously, PIM features are still very lacking. It seems though that most users are fine with that. Personally, I'd expect close Entourage/Outlook functionality now that the handhelds have the display and power. Instead, the focus seems to be on video playback.. Ben RE: Still can't sort
If you really want to use the todo idea and have sorting based on more than one option, check out Shadow Plan. It does all you describe above and more. Similarly with other 3rd party contact managers, DateBK and Agendus. Check them out. OB HandEra Moderator at [url="http://www.PalmVenue.com/forum"]PalmVenue[/url] RE: Still can't sortpd_workman @ 10/13/2004 3:02:23 PM #
Keysuite can sort the address book various different ways, and has recently added an alpha sort to the tasks, which I agree is very useful. And of course multiple categories on any items! KeySuite uses its own databases, not the built-in ones, so it does not interface directly with things like Datebk5, Lifebalance, and Shadow. pdw RE: Still can't sort
According to the manual, the Tasks program lacks the 'show only due items' filter. I can't believe this. They INCLUDED useless junk (eg BT radio and MP3 player) but they EXCLUDED the single most useful function of the old To Do List. RE: Still can't sort
Bobbert, you might wish to try CanDo from elkasoft.com - it sorts tasks alpabetically and does other nice things too.
RE: What's that app?!
Great! Thanks. There's some nice software at that site. I wish I had the RAM to try out Ender. (Having gotten the TE down to just 12K free RAM last week and having to hard reset, I am trying to be more careful about what I squeeze into the unit!)
T5 Screen
Great review. Some times it is difficult to get by the R&R (ranting & raving) on this site but the admin posts are worth it. Unlike most others here, wifi is not an issue at all for me. I bought the card and as long as it will work on the T5, then I prefer it not built in. I will need a g card anyway when and if they are available. The review mentions the screen being as good as the T3. I saw an earlier review that said the T5 was not as bright as the T3. Any comments on this? Also, it was mentioned that the screen was still usable in bright sunlight. My T3 washes out in bright sunlight to the point of being unusable. I use the Belkin screen protector and don't know how much they contribute to this problem. I have ordered something called "Crystal CLear" protectors from boxwave but haven't tried them yet. Anybody else have a similar problem in bright light? RE: T5 Screen
I read another review where the T5E2 had a brighter screen than T3. PalmOne, like most any mfctr, does not have all her eggs in the basket of one component supplier. The T3 uses screens from at least 4 suppliers that I have found. I was at Staples recently and picked up a T3 and went to turn it to full brightness. It was already at full! I pulled my T3 out of my pocket and it was much much brighter. This is a very significant issue for those buying a $400 unit. I would make sure I got the "bright one" b/c you can always dim it. Mine is almost never too dim, but in full darkness it is sometimes too bright. Transflective technology as on the T3/T5E2 are typically below grade in direct sun, but still very useable. It is not as good outdoors as 'reflective' technology (TT, m5x5), but far superior outdoor (and indoor) to 'backlit' technology (m130, Zire31, Treo90) screens. RE: T5 Screen
Nice screen, but how dim can the screen go? The Zire 72 that I used to have was TOO bright IMHO. I had trouble reader for hours (sometimes 4-7 hours) even with the lowest setting. And I guess they still don't offer the option to turn off the backlight. I still prefer Sony's high res screens. At least the dim setting is quite dark enough and there's an option to turn off the backlight, which is useful when I just need to switch apps or maybe search a word or two in my dictionary. Besides, there's one issue no review mentioned yet - Is the screen noisy? That's the main reason I'm staying away from P1 devices for now. RE: T5 Screen
You are right, there is a large variation in screen quality. My first T3 was bright, but had a bluish tint. My wife's T3 is bright and whiter (why does SHE always get the perfect ones?). Bright is nice, but the T3 has always been on the bright side (at least for me). Although it won't burn your retinas like the IIIc, the T3 is brighter than most users will ever need. I typically use mine set between 20% and 30%. My recent replacement T3 was not as bright as my former unit, but this was better for me because I do use it at night. Being able to read comfortably in bed is nice. Also, the new unit does not have the bluish cast... I rather have truer white balance than maximum brightness. RE: T5 Screen
Too bright screen? http://silkdimmer.sourceforge.net/ -- works great on my TE. Turns off the backlight. Will *not* turn it off completely on a T3, though. RE: T5 ScreenPurfekshunist @ 10/13/2004 4:46:24 PM #
LiveFaith seems to have addressed the issue (transreflective vs. reflective), but yes, I am also disappointed with my T3's readability outdoors. I frequently read on my Palm while walking from place to place. I had no problem, even in bright sunlight, with my m515, but the T3 is almost unreadable. I'm using the clear screen protector from Brando Workshop, but I don't think any of these clear protectors have an impact on the readability (or lack thereof) of the screen. It will be interesting to find out how the T5's screen really performs in comparison to that of the T3. As has been pointed out, however, there might be significant variability between devices. RE: T5 Screen
"Will *not* turn it off completely on a T3, though."
Yeah, and that was the problem, there was not going beyond the lowest setting. So there I would be in bed with this screen glaring in my eyes and casting shadows on the ceiling. Oh well, now I have a unit that goes lower, and 1Gig cards are down to $76 US, I'm happy.
Senility built in?mschmalenbach @ 10/13/2004 8:54:21 AM #
I found the review very useful - irrespecyive of whether the T5 is 'good or bad' the review of it felt to me to be well considered. Thank you. Like some previous commentators I would rather have my wifi option as a plug-in extra - it's a choice/power thing I guess, and I don't use wifi on a constant basis. For those who do I can understand the disappointment. I'm not jumping for joy about the price either. But, there are many things that would appeal to me, if I could get a little more clarity. For starters, the FLASH RAM - what kind of technology is it - hopefully it's single cell NAND FLASH technology. It's cheaper and faster than other kinds (though tends to be just a little larger in physical terms). My concern though is over the life cycle - just 100,000 write cycles. If this was for a digital camera that's not an issue. But it's not for a digital camera. It's for a PDA. Is there some reasonable sized scratch pad static RAM buried away somewhere on the CPU (i.e. NOT the FLASH RAM) that has unlimited write cycle life time - it wouldn't take many programme loops and associated counters to start nibbling away at the FLASH RAM - I guess the way the OS is actually structured will have a big part to play. I just want to know if, should I buy one of these, the thing isn't going to go senile on me anytime soon! Perhaps I should look at a T3 or a Zodiac 2? Does anybody know if the Zodiac works with the wifi card? (Hey, until it was stolen recently, I was on an original Sony Clie S300!! Even a low end Zire 31 would be a step up - and I loved my Clie!) RE: Senility built in?
I have an S320 and just went to a TE. Beware of battery life with color units. If battery is your thing, get a Zod. But it still can't do WiFi. RE: Senility built in?
mschmalenbach, The Zodiac is an excellent device, and Tapwave is suppose to have a WiFi card available this year. I have a Zodiac 2 that would be my primary device if I could find a hard case for it. Until then, I am still hanging on to my Tungsten T3. Take care, RE: Senility built in?
"it's a choice/power thing I guess..." Could always have a power managment option to turn the WiFi circuitry off, right? If Palm doesn't supply one, perhaps a hack? Wi-Fi switchThe_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2004 3:31:02 AM #
http://homepage3.nifty.com/Khiguchi/FreeSoft/HotSwitch/index_enUS.htm
Take a look at the competition
In a strange coincidence, I looked today at this review and this other one: http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2258&review=Dell+Axim+X50 It is amazing how PalmOS and CE devices look alike this days. Sidestepping the OS differences, the hardware and user interface are *very* similar. If you compare the specs of the Basic and Advanced Axim X50, you notice that WiFi had no impact on the weight! Also all Axim models have removable batteries and a microphone, I can't understand will PalmOne would not include this. RE: Take a look at the competition
Well, don't know about the X30, but I looked at the X50... significanlty thicker. BAD. The T5 is already too thick. RE: Take a look at the competition
I'm not a big fan of removeable batteries. I remember supporting one user with a Palm m105. She complained that all her data was lost when she switched batteries. *sigh* It took a bit of prodding but I eventually found out she removed the batteries from her Palm and put them in her VCR's remote control to watch a movie. When she put the batteries back in the Palm two hours later, of course it was dead. Now you wouldn't be able to use the current batteries in a remote control, but it still leaves a lot of room for the "My data is erased and I have no backup" stuff to happen. After saying all that, now that Palm is using the new non-volitile RAM I'm hoping we will see removeable batteries soon. RE: Take a look at the competition
PDA's are likely all manufactured by ODM's currently (except for Sony). The major vendor choices are lores/hires/HVGA (PalmOS) or QVGA/VGA (PPC), button and case labeling, and the licensee's ROM. The only differentiators seem to be feature bundling, included software and marketing. The lack of camera, microphone, and medium-range radio (wifi), makes the T5 look like a device designed for environments where cell phones are not desired or allowed. Product differentiation, or *BIG* OEM customer(s)? RE: Take a look at the competition
Statik, just because the drones who use them and are the bane of tech-support's life doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to suffer. The built-in obsolescence of a non-removable, expensive to replace batery is, imho, the worst thing that P1 has inflicted on its users over the years. I'm only just planning to upgrade from my IIIxe because I want BT. WiFi would be nice, but isn't needed and all the bells & whistles on the newer machines are just that.
A PDA needs to handle data, talk to other devices and work when you need it. I get 3-6 months out of a pair of AAAs and my unit is years old. No rechargeable battery lasts for ever and I don't see why I should have to pay a bloody fortune to have P1 change it for me, or be unable to change it should it begin to run low at a crucial moment. PPCs are becoming MUCH more attractive to me because I can carry a spare battery and swap out at my leisure. Like many of the earlier respondents to this thread I can't belive they've done any serious customer research. 5 minutes on these forums would make it plain what a lot of people wanted from this new machine. I'm just surprised that there aren't more complaints about this hose-job. Oh, and when daling with the like of the lady you mentioned just remember this axim - Never underestimate the stupidity of the public.
Thanks for your review
I am disappointed that they took backward steps in the reset pin and removal of vibration (which I use a lot while in office to minimize distraction). I have come to expect a lot from the Palm flagship model and frankly they goofed on this one. I was looking forward to the T5 now I look forward to the T6 (hopefully, if they listen to us this time). I would not complain as much on Wifi if they at least designed two SD slots into the unit to hold both a WIFI card and a memory card.
The Speaker layout you mentioned does seem odd and may be due to the way the hardware fits inside the case maybe? Still when they bought out the Tungsten T1 I thought (and still do now) that it was one of their best designs and that Palmone could only improve it (T3). I was sad to read that with the T5 they have regressed and not progessed.
Excellent Review
Ryan - Excellent review. It's a shame that all of your talent, effort, enthusiasm, hard work, and dedication to the Palm platform is matched by PalmOne/Palm Source only with laziness, arrogance, lackadaisical attitudes, incompetence, and ultimately - weak ho-hum offerings. In the words of the great Jim Mora, this $400 T5 and the MIA OS6 are embarrassing, shameful, disgraceful, pitiful, and horrible. I don't know how these guys can collect their paychecks with a straight face. They can sit on the ball and live off of the Treo for a few more years but that will not save them. Thanks for all of your efforts. GG RE: Excellent Review
Gekko, Am I hearing you say you're a little disappointed in P1? :-O Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com RE: Excellent Review
Ryan, Thanks for the review. Although the "roar of mutiny" has been furious, you delivered a well balanced perspective. These got my attention concerning further deficits as compared to the T3, which the T5E2 was downgraded from ... #1 Strange? How on earth could a software developer even begin to write an application that only uses a portion of the screen? The screen real estate is the most precious resource on a PDA. 416mhz is plenty of juice, even w/o grafix-excel to handle this. No? Maybe the appa is written to run on a 126mhz model too? The T3 handles full screen with Kinoma. Bewildering! #2 reset pin BTW, I'm sure that metal stylus with reset pin adds a lot more weight than Wifi, as compared to a plastic one. Maybe PalmOne meant the weight of the necessary battery too. :- 1A Excellent Review
This is a big disappointment. I used to love Palm for its functionality and uniqueness. It was like Mac vs. Ms. Mac computers have always had an added functionality, and still are pioneers in many ways…. With everything cool coming up. I was expecting the same from Palm – to be a creative alternative. For that company to be successful, it has to constantly re-invent itself. As of today, I am disappointed with a way over-priced, stripped version of palm. Just to make the pain worse, Dell came up with Axim X50v. Compare for yourself…. Axim X50v features include: • 624 MHz Intel Xscale PXA270 processor • 128 MB Flash ROM and 64 MB SDRAM memory with XMB (cross media bar) on-screen navigation to access memory • Integrated 802.11b Wi-Fi • Intel 2700G multimedia accelerator with 16 MB of video memory, providing DVD-quality video playback and supporting dual display capability for professional presentations • 3.7" VGA display sad, but true RE: Excellent Review for a sucky PDA
First of all, EXCELLENT review of the T5. I was hoping to trade in my T2 for a T5 hoping it would have WiFi built-in. But for the high price of the T5 ($400!) and less features than the T2 (T2 has compact metal slider case, a standard cradle that allows hotsync and AC charge, front speaker, vibrate and LED alarms, voice recorder, etc...), I think I'll stick with the T2 until maybe P1's next big thing... I wish someone at P1 would seriously survey their customers and give us a PDA that WE want and not some corporate version that they think we want. I mean, Bluetooth? I don't know of one single person who owns a PDA and uses Bluetooth... but I know of many, many PDA users who use WiFi (most of them PPC users). Where is P1 getting their information that Bluetooth is more popular, better, etc??? Bluetooth is the BetaMax of PDAs and WiFi is what we want! Oh well, we can keep complaining until we're blue (tooth) in the face because no matter what us users say, P1 will still do what they want and continue to make lacking PDAs - hey P1, ever use focus groups, customer feedback, or read PIC or any other PDA website? Stop paying the bean counters so much dough and spend a little more in marketing/customer R&D... And, don't even get me started on the ludicrous $400 retail price... that alone could be a story in itself. Those PPC from Dell are starting to look very good right about now...heard they're coming out with a new one today. RE: Excellent Review
How much is Dell paying these people to spam this site in the guise of "posts"? That said, I've read the 50v review -- and palmOne looks very bad by comparison. RE: Excellent Review
MikeCon - that accusation was old 5 years ago. Enough already. Pull your head out of you a$$. RE: Excellent Review
No one is paying me a damn thing. (I wish they were though, since people will be shelling out $499 for a pda. But, I'd rather pay a higher price, and get the functions that I need, than buy palm, so palm execs keep their jobs. In fact, I did just that. All good things... Re: Bluetooth useBuzzWriter @ 10/13/2004 2:47:12 PM #
While I agree with many of the comments here, I wanted you to know there's at least one Bluetooth user out here who would sorely miss that feature (I already miss the voice recorder and slider and silent features). I use it for quick synchs without the hassle of pulling out the USB cord. I've even considered getting rid of my portable palm collapsable keyboard in favor of a bluetooth-linked model (although I haven't yet checked to make sure currently available keyboards and mouse would link to the BT in the TungstenT). Mac user, marketing communications specialist RE: Excellent Review
Yes, in deed an great review, A quote: "While I rarely discuss what a handheld doesn't include, for the T5 I have to make an exception. Many PalmInfocenter readers were very disappointed that the T5 did not include built in WiFi. Users were further dissatisfied to see that the latest version of the Palm OS, Cobalt not used as well. Todays highly competitive PDA market practically demands that a high end PDA model include the wireless standard. Its absence on the T5 left many users scratching their heads in disbelief that it was not incorporated. I feel that this was an oversight, as a result the lack of integrated WiFI could negatively impact sales of this device. palmOne has announced that the WiFi SD card will be supported, but this is not the most ideal solution and adds additional cost. Many competing handhelds in this price range will already have built in WIFI standard." And that is why I will not be buying a T5, in fact if Palm dosen't get off of their butts, and at least offer one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi, Then I will begin looking at an alternative PDA. I'm not a PPC fan, but it's time PALM!
RE: Excellent Review
Ba-gug wrote: "...in fact if Palm dosen't get off of their butts, and at least offer one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi, Then I will begin looking at an alternative PDA." Palm does offer "one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi", it is the Tungsten C. :-P RE: Excellent Review
Palm does offer "one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi", it is the Tungsten C." :-P
No Silent Features?He||Raiser @ 10/13/2004 12:22:40 PM #
How could they ditch the vibration function? Being a college student (although I suppose this would also go for any business professional as well), I want to be able to silence my Palm and yet still know when an alarm goes off while in class. This new iteration in the line of Palm handhelds has been a severe disappointment. I'm not saying that the vibration feature was the make or break feature; I just bring it up in frustration to illustrate the lack of thought put into this device.
Som thoughts
Okay, I am not crazy about T5 myself, but I wasn't planning on buying one any way. So I don't really care one way or another...Treo 650 is my baby this Christmas. However, I feel that many people here are being too harsh on P1 for putting out the T5. - P1 does have a wifi model, and it is called the Tungsten C, which has been out for about 18 months!!! Sammy over at Palmaddict loves his C and uses it all the time. As Ryan had already mentioned in his review, Tungsten E has been the #1 selling PDA ever since it was introduced. I am sure that most of its success is due to its attractive price point. But this also tells me that most average mainstream users out there don't have a need for wifi or bluebooth at this time. You and I may find setting up a wifi connection a relatively mundane task, but I have helped enough of my colleagues and neighbors with their wifi setup to know that it is not a trivial job for a lot people out there. Nevertheless, I do think that the price on the T5 may be a little high, but that's an easy problem to fix for P1. RE: Som thoughts
As noted above, why T|C doesn't sell more: * mono headphone jack
RE: Som thoughts
I've said it before and I'll say it again: All P1 needed to do was stick a larger battery, OS 5.2.8 or 5.4.x into a revised T|C w/ a darker T|W style casing with a standard headphone jack. Oh, and lower the MSRP to $350ish. It would've been an instant hit even with "just" 64mb RAM and 320*320. Such a release should have accompanied the launch of the Zires back this spring. At the very least, an OS upgrade and built-in app ROM upgrade should be offered to existing T|C owners at no charge, seeing as how P1 still has the audacity to charge $400 MSRP for a handheld that'll soon be 2 years old without a single tweak or revision. Why not have features?
The issue though is that if PalmOne's competitors can bundle a lot of hardware features and still keep prices and size down, then why won't P1 do it? There is no prize for having the least features.
I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Ryan, could you please elaborate on your generalized statement regarding battery life. You say you got about 5 hours. How much exactly is it? I know you've used BatteryGraph in the past so you should have a more accurate number. Also, what brightness level was the backlight on, other conditions such as BT use or listening to mp3. Based on the reviews I've read so far I'm starting to get the impression that the T5 DOES NOT have a 1300 mah battery. Palmone makes no mention of this rating anywhere on their website or in the pdf documentation. They don't even make any claims about the expected battery life. In the manual from the FCC website, palm tells the user to charge the battery at least 1/2 an hour each day just as they do in the TE manual (I own a TE) In the infosync review, for some unknown reason they neglected to test the T5's battery life using their standard Atom Smash battery rundown test. They instead do a continous mp3 loop test with the screen OFF and then they claim a shocking 7 hr 15 minute result. Well, I ran a similar test on my TE (840 mah battery) yesterday and I got 7 hrs 25 minutes playing mp3 looped with the screen off. I was shocked. Same with the Gadgeteer review where she says that the T5 shows 95% after 1 hr mp3 and 1/2 hr movies and pictures. Well I did the same with my TE and I was at 93%. Again this is inconclusive. Other reviews have given very generalized statements about battery life. I'm starting to think that palmone is trying to pull a fast one on us by allowing this 1300 mah myth to spread while never actually confirming the true battery rating. I hope I'm proven wrong, maybe with a picture of the T5's battery showing mah rating or with an acutal battery rundown comparison between a T5 and a TE/T3. Until it's proven otherwise, I am going to assume that the T5 does not have a 1300 mah battery. RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
I cannot speak for all reviewers but it is hard to give a fully battery test if you only have the device for a week or so. Ryan has probably not had the device as long as some other places and that would/could attribute to the battery stats not being so "nice." I am sure that the battery life is better than the T3 and probably better than the TE as well. But if it is not better than the TE then you will have to take into consideration a more powerful processor and more RAM and a larger screen to power as being the culprits. From that end, it may be only as good as the TE. And from those who I know that have a TE, they get by with charging once or twice a week, though it is recommended that you keep the batteries topped off as much as possible. Oh yea, Ryan, great review. You seemed to cover in depth what some others had not been able to. RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
>>>And from those who I know that have a TE, they get by with charging once or twice a week... Geez! I sometimes have to charge TWICE A DAY with my TE. I really *use* it. RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
I've only had the T5 for less than a week so I didn't really have enough time to make a solid conclusion. I will update the article in another week about the battery life. I find that standard "torture tests" when you just drain the battery down, don't really tell you anything about battery stanima. Thats not how people use PDAs in the real world. BattryGraph reported I got 4:45 minutes of ON time from my first charge cycle. I was heavily using the device, using lots of bluetooth, drive mode and browsing. This was over a period of roughly 3 days. While its not a huge improvement, my initial conclusion is that it does have slightly better life than the T3. When fully charged batterygraph reports 4000 mV, with a warn threshold of 3640 mV -Ryan RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
That IS an improvement over the T3. My first T3 got about 5 hours of very light use, 3 hours of heavy use per charge. It was replaced by a refurb after a digitizer problem. The refurb only got 3 hours if you had the screen all the way down, the audio off, the BT off, and it caught a slight extra charge from sunspots or absorbed some power by osmosis from my cellphone. RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Mike, how many hours of actual runtime do you put on your TE a day? Or are you one of those "gotta turn it on before it's done charging for the first time" persons... ;) RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Why assume that PalmOne would lie about having a 1300 mAh battery when they would be liable for that in a court of law? That battery life does sound greatly better than my T3's 900 mAh batter. After the 1.5 hours quoted by the Gadgeteer I would by in the 65-75% range, not 90%+. The best test is for someone to pull the damn battery out and look at it. RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Ryan, Thanks for the clarification. I will await your update. The only reason I'm concerned about the T5's battery life is because I'm tired of charging my TE on a daily basis (backlight on lowest setting) and I'd like to stay with the palm os but I'm also considering the hp 3715 which has a 1400 mah battery and awesome battery life (according to reviews). In my heart, I'm hoping the T5 will last at least a full day of heavy use with the backlight at a reasonable level because I really like the palm os and would rather not change. RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Mr. T. I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but if you are using the TE so much that you need to charge it everyday, then the rx3715 will fare the same way. It is not a beast with the battery. I say only cause I own it. After 1hr of just MP3 playing I am down to 80-85%. It does not have extrodinary battery life as compared to palmOS devices. It DOES have better battery life than many other WinMobile devices out there. Also, like Ryan said, a true measure of battery life is not make one program run until it dies. Yes, that is the only type of test that is going to work on different devices of differeing hardware and OS types, but it is in no mean accurate. The best way to see true battery life, from the perspective of a reviewer who wants people to take their work seriously, is to use teh device and have a program gage battery usage over the course of using that product for at least a week. Doing things like that seems to be missed on the brains of some reviewers, but not Ryan who is making an attempt to give a good measure of battery life - hint, it will be better than the T3 and TE but will not match the Vx. RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
>>>Mike, how many hours of actual runtime do you put on your TE a day? Or are you one of those "gotta turn it on before it's done charging for the first time" persons... ;)
I've not installed a utility to track on-time. I've had bad experiences with such a util on my S320. But now that I have the ability to play MP3s, I use that now too! Overall, I'd have to say I get about 4 hours maybe? That's with MP3 included. But I just won't go out with the thing *without* carrying the AC. I could go through two heavy days with the S320 before needing AC. I can't go through one with the TE...
Transient Memories
Great review, Ryan, as usual. We're spoiled by the quality of your work, I'd say. However, I take issue with your leaving out the fact that both the device and the internal memory are wiped out by a hard reset. This astonishing fact obliterates the "safety net" aspect of this trumpeted new feature. Yes, you can come back to your T5 after a year of non-use and the memory is still intact, but what you cannot do is be so foolish as to run a program which locks up your device beyond the ability of a soft reset to fix. I don't know about others, but this has happened to me far, far more times than my battery draining to zero. IMO, Palm is setting unsuspecting users up for a big fall with this feature. If Palm really wanted to keep our data safe, they would have designed internal memory to be persistent under hard-reset conditions. Better still, they should have forgotten about this silly internal drive idea altogether, given us lots of device RAM and put in dual SD slots. I've never had files on an SD card go bad due to low batteries, nor due to a problem application. RE: Transient Memories
"However, I take issue with your leaving out the fact that both the device and the internal memory are wiped out by a hard reset" Great.. please sell me your Palm that cannot be hard reset.. make sure all your bank account numbers etc are in there. I for one, want a way to reset my Palm so that I can start fresh. I don't want to have the battery run down and lose everything, but I do want a way to clear out the entire Palm without having to somehow erase each and every program manually. I don't think that not surviving a hard reset is a negative. RE: Transient Memories
Clearing out each program individually? What the heck are you talking about? Ever heard of a disk format? It's one step. RE: Transient Memories
"Ever heard of a disk format?" Yep.. on a Palm device it called hold down the power button and the reset pin at the same time.. also known as a hard reset. RE: Transient Memorieswhitemiata @ 10/14/2004 10:35:26 AM #
The jury is still out on the Survive Hard Reset issue. Let me explain. Here's behaviour I fully support, wether we're dealing with the T5 or T3 or my Zire71: I press the reset button while holding the power button The palm says "Press UP to wipe all data" I press UP all data goes. That is OK by me (if I had it my way it would do something like ask you to tap UP, then down then up again, to avoid the possibility that a hard-reset accidentally happened while your up button was being pressed by your case - yes it can happen). Here is behaviour that I DO NOT support on my Zire71, on the T3, and that I'm still HOPEFUL Palm has eliminated from the T5: I run some application, it crashes beyond belief, it triggers a hard-reset, it wipes my data. That is not acceptable, period. Frankly I don't understand why it happens on current PalmOS PDAs. It's clearly not that RAM is getting wiped out by power going away... so why is it happening? I really hope that Palm has addressed this in the T5. If not, then PalmSource BETTER Have handled it in OS6. It's clearly an OS issue. Alessandro RE: Transient Memories
You can't say that software won't ever result in a hard reset. I think this would be very hard for a complex software system to guarantee. Reboots/resets (together with a proper backup regimen) are an acceptable compromise, IMO, to the huge extra cost that would be part of a more exhaustive testing strategem. This is a trade-off, of course, and we hear that (maybe not anymore) that the PPC folk suffer from this going too far to the low-testing-high-reset-frequency end of the spectrum. My opinion is that the hard reset on a T5 with its device memory and internal memory should work the way it does now on my T3 with its device memory and an SD card: the device memory is wiped and the SD card, or the internal memory, is retained. If you really want to wipe out the internal memory as well, you do the hard reset first, then you reformat the internal "drive" using programs available in the ROM (e.g., "Card Info"). I would say that this last case wouldn't happen all that often. Most of the time when you do a hard reset, you would want to retain the internal memory and only wipe out the device memory. But to say that a hard reset wipes out the internal memory as well as the device memory is, IMO, unacceptable and destroys the primary advantage of having an internal flash drive. RE: Transient Memorieswhitemiata @ 10/14/2004 4:15:00 PM #
Patrick, I can't agree that a software-caused hard-reset should induce a wipe of the device's memory on a T5. It makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. The only plausible explanation for a software crash on a pre-T5 PDA causing a complete wipe-out of memory is that the crash is SO SEVERE that it causes the device to actually CUT POWER to it's RAM. If that happens on a T5 the content of RAM should be retained. So far I've heard one report that a hard reset on a T5 results in the data being wiped out. I continue to hope that the jury is still out on what that really means. If the tester pressed the back button while holding power button, then tapped up when prompted to wipe all data, then I would hope that internal memory did in fact get wiped out. But if the tester ran an application that caused the T5 to lock up and THAT caused RAM to be wiped, then that's a sad outcome, a sign Palm dropped the ball on this. I know a lot of you out there think Palm dropped the ball anyway by not including a voice recorder and WIFI, but if it turns out that a major crash does NOT result in a memory wipe, then imho that feature will be HUGE in the business environment. I remain hopeful until proven wrong. Someone should write a Palm App that causes a total OS meltdown so we can see what the answer is. Alessandro RE: Transient Memories
Admittedly, I play around a lot with software on my T3, and I don't particularly stay away from the danger category. However, I have had to hard reset my device maybe 6 times over the last 4 years due only to software problems. Usually, the scenario is that you get into a soft reset loop that you can't get out of. A warm reset gets you back up, for a while, but you quickly reset again (due to the continuing software problem) and you're back into the loop. Only way to get out is hard reset. RE: Transient Memories
"Usually, the scenario is that you get into a soft reset loop that you can't get out of" I'm not a software programmer so I can't be sure, ( and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.. :-)) but.. if a program follows the guidelines set by PalmSource, then you should not get an endless loop. I also use a lot of "dangerous" software and have found that in almost all cases, the programs that cause the problems are the ones that have not always followed the "rules". I believe that PalmSource has a certification program.. or at least it used to. I still use a lot of those programs, and have yet to have one of them cause a loop that would need a hard reset. The power button /reset pin hard reset was a planned piece of the T5. So if you have a program going into an endless loop then the hard reset will wipe all data out. I did learn one item of interest. In order to guarantee that the data on your device is not recoverable, you need to set a password on the T5. If a hard reset occurs with a password, then the data is not recoverable, but if there is no password, then it is possible that 3rd party programs such as norton utilities could extract information from the T5 even after a hard reset. RE: Transient Memories
Limiting myself to only those programs that have passed some sort of manufacturers certification process would be worse than the original problem, IMO. There are plenty of high caliber, stable programs that are a joy to use but who have not bothered getting anybody's certification. RE: Transient Memories
And things *can* happen that *do* result in a spontaneous hard reset. I've had it happen with me and I wasn't using software that was weird or otherwise dangerous. All you need is one damned fatal bug to do it or an incompatibility with, say, hacks (as was the case with my PIII). I've had such a spontaneous hard reset with the *TE*.
OS Upgrade Option
Has anyone heard if this device can be upgraded to OS 6.1 at some later date. If so would this be a free upgrade or cost? Thanks. Rip ICQ# 3042286 RE: OS Upgrade OptionBuzzWriter @ 10/13/2004 2:53:19 PM #
Haven't heard, but the history of Palm OS upgrades doesn't make me optimistic. Mac user, marketing communications specialist Don't buy hoping for an upgrade
I don't know when if ever PalmOne has offered an OS upgrade. I wouldn't buy something because I was counting on an upgrade, unless the manufacturer had already promised it in writing RE: OS Upgrade Option
I upgraded my III from OS 3.0 to 3.1 to 3.3. I heard rumors that it could be upgraded further to 4.1, but that's ancient history. RE: OS Upgrade Option
Yep, I did the 4.1 upgrade (from OS 3.0 -- it was quite a leap!). But as you suggest, Jarom, that was nearly 3 years ago. Palm and its attitudes have changed a lot since then. RE: OS Upgrade Optionkevinbgood @ 10/14/2004 6:11:18 AM #
Straight from the horses mouth, no upgrades will be available. They want you to buy the new devices. Kev PalmOne's NO OS upgrade policy
Palm OS® Upgrades palmOne no longer offers regular upgrades to the Palm OS on most devices. Why? Most of the differences between versions of the Palm OS simply enable new hardware functionality that is only important if you're also buying a new handheld. For example, Palm OS 5 is not available on earlier devices because it depends on the 5-way navigation control, a hardware feature not present on earlier handhelds. RE: OS Upgrade OptionJonathanChoo @ 10/18/2004 5:54:25 AM #
The reason why Palm has not been giving out OS4 to OS5 upgrades is because PalmOS 4 devices CAN NOT run OS5 because of major hardware changes. OS4 is for 68k Dragonball CPUs while OS5 is for ARM5 CPUs.
Something many people here tend to forget when they decide to jump on the anti-Palm bandwagon.
Can I have some of what your smoking?
Slightly overpriced? Hw about grossly overpriced? 7.5 out of 10. Puh-lease. I guess because this is a Palm site you have to put the best face on things but really this is ridiculous. RE: Can I have some of what your smoking?
This thing should have launched at not a penny more than $350 with a price drop to $300 by early '05. I would not suggest bundling the wi-fi card at $400 either as there are still plenty of users who would:
1. Want it w/o the bundled card for less 2. Complain about the fragility of the wi-fi card sticking out of their PDA. 3. A handful of neophyte users who would leave Wi-Fi (if not BT & Wi-FI) on at all times and kill the T5's battery. As long as there are still T3s in the channel, one could get a T3 for ~$300-$330ish online or at Staples, have a cradle in the box and buy DTG 7 Premium and a 512mb SD card and still come in right at the same exact price point as the T5 and have more storage & voice recording to boot.
Dell X50v for $464
I just ordered the new Dell Axim 50v for $464. 624mhz, XGA screen, wireless, bluetooth, SD and compact flash card slots, usb cradle all for $64 more than the T5. Here's the link for ordering at this price. http://www.vgapocketpc.com/archives...-coupon-464.php RE: Dell X50v for $464
So you're comparing a heavy discounted price with an official suggested retail price? Thanks for spamming. Goodbye RE: Dell X50v for $464
PalmOne/Source to Customers: "Who are you going to believe, us or your lying eyes???" RE: Dell X50v for $464
Heavily discounted? That is only $35 under list price, 7%. I do agree though that the note should have said he only paid $99 more. RE: Dell X50v for $464
I think the Axim 50v has a VGA screen, not an XGA. Looks like nice hardware; shame about the OS. Who's going to tip what the US discounters will sell the T5 for? RE: Dell X50v for $464JonathanChoo @ 10/14/2004 6:40:16 AM #
You are mad to use the argument $xxx more and you can get this...not anyone has an extra $xxx around to spend. If you have good for you.
If you want to compare price Vs price then compare the X50 mid-range (also $399) which has WiFi and bluetooth, 520Mhz, 64Mb RAM, 128Mb ROM, 167g, 1100mAh battery and QVGA screen to the T5 (bluetooth, 416Mhz, 64Mb RAM, 160Mb ROM, 145g, 1300mAh battery and HVGA screen).
Power on/off questionBuzzWriter @ 10/13/2004 2:35:52 PM #
Great review. I still don't know if I'm willing to give up the voice recorder and slider's compact design, but this is terrific background in making my decision in a few weeks.
Question: There's one thing you didn't mention: power on/off control. I can't tell you how many times I've had to restore data to the handheld after something pressed against a key (not the switch) on my Tungsten T and ran the battery out - although Flash memory will make that less of a problem. Zire-Zire71-Tungsten T (after 3 Zire71 units failed within weeks of purchase)-???
Missed points
While your review does highlight some of the things most everyone already knows, you did not mention any of the new problems already showing up in the T5. As an example, there is a soft reset loop problem that can only be stopped with a hard reset and loss of all your data. Another is with the date book and disappearing data. It is so bad that Palm has already created a T5 FAQ with known problems. And it appears to be growing daily as a few of the devices get into the hands of real users and not paid political reviewers. RE: Missed points
Hi Quickster, I'm not sure if you're referring to PIC, but we have always been completely independent. I am never paid to post news stories or reviews.
Write speed in drive modemadmaxmedia @ 10/13/2004 3:13:25 PM #
"A 10 MB mp3 file took 35 seconds to transfer over via drive mode."
I would have considered actual innovation had they incorporated USB 2 into this new Palm. Using CardExport on my TC (which also requires no PC drivers), I transferred a 8 MB file in about 19 seconds (slightly faster, but about the same.)
Why can't Palm stick with one format/style?
I am disappointed in the price vs feature set of this "upgrade" but after reading this review, the thing that sticks out in my mind is "Palm, why don't you stick to one style and go with it?". Besides the fact that they've changed the total dimensions and style of it that cause users to buy new peripherals no matter which Palm that they are upgrading from. They also ditched the Universal Connector which will annoy a lot of people (me included). Now I read that they have moved the speaker to the back - WHY WHY WHY, it was finally in a good spot and louder on the TT, T2 and T3 and now they are going away from it - doh! Can't they even decide on a reset pin size and position? Small, large, small, top, middle - doh! And what about SD card insert slot? Top, side, top, side - what's next? bottom? - doh! It seems like every model is designed by a new group of designers who want to put their own touch on it. C'mon guys, let's stick to one basic design and stick with it for just a little while. RE: Why can't Palm stick with one format/style?
I think that is an excellent question, especially as far as one engineering design. They could pay the price once for having a device which has dual slots, bluetooth, WiFi, removable battery, etc. Then they could package and sell that in a number of different cases, some with keyboard, most with graffiti only. I mean everyone keeps talking about how small PalmOne is so we can't expect them to do too much. OK. So why don't they build one or two good units and roll with that? They could be like Apple and sell a bunch of different colored and shaped skins around the same core. The advantage of doing this is that their engineering costs would go down, and so would their manufacturing costs because of volume. RE: Why can't Palm stick with one format/style?
My only questions to the original poster are: 1) Have you noticed that P1 hasnt released a device with the UC since the T3? That was at least a year now. 2) If your PDA is doign what you need it to do, why do you care if a new model comes out that you cannot upgrade to? Arent you pleased with teh purchase you made? I for one do not mind that they changed again. P1 never said that they were sticking to the UC forever. Neither should they. Accessories are more wireless now than in times past as well, so why shuold it matter about the connector except for travel cables and cradles? It is just silly to me that people want old tech to do new things and expect things not to change. The UC had flaws and P1 essentially made a new one. I have noticed already that this new connector has 3 less pins than t |
USB 1.1? Jeez... What's the write performance of Drive mode? Is it fast enough for files to be directly edited from the desktop in Drive mode?