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Comments on: palmOne Tungsten T5 Handheld Review

The Tungsten T5 is the latest handheld from palmOne. The T5 features 256MB of Flash memory, a 416MHz processor, a large 320x480 pixel display and Bluetooth wireless in a compact and stylish design. How well does the T5 hold up on its own...? Read on for the in-depth review.
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Tealscript? USB 1.1?

superwoman @ 10/13/2004 5:26:11 AM #
You mentioned the G1 hack doesn't work. Does Tealscript or other 3rd party tool work?

USB 1.1? Jeez... What's the write performance of Drive mode? Is it fast enough for files to be directly edited from the desktop in Drive mode?



RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?
Strider_mt2k @ 10/13/2004 6:15:29 AM #
They HAD to mess with our ability to use G1, but couldn't get the datebook app right?

And yes, I'm also suprised that it's merely USB 1.1 with it being touted as a drive, but it will be far more compatible with older computers that way, so I can't cry foul there.

RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?
cypher76 @ 10/13/2004 9:07:25 AM #
USB 2.0 is backwards compatible with USB 1.1, so there's no loss of compatibility by using standard USB 2.0. Also, Bluetooth 1.1? Every new PocketPC has the Bluetooth 1.2 spec already. And no drivers for the WiFi card 'yet'? That traditionally means Palm has no intention of developing them in a reasonable timeframe.
RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?
Puppy @ 10/15/2004 2:03:08 AM #
You’re kidding. No Graffiti? I tried Jot (opps, “Graffiti 2”), and it’s just ignorant compared with Graffiti.

Add to that no voice recorder, and Palm has no sale. I *love* PalmOS, but it’s time for me to try out an Axim (and hope WinCE isn’t so horrible that I want to put up with palmOne’s failings).


RE: Tealscript? USB 1.1?
atrizzah @ 10/19/2004 12:15:15 AM #
You guys are 100% right. Uncustomizable Grafitti? USB 1.1? Bluetooth 1.1??? Come on now Palm, this is stuff people have wanted for years.

PalmOne needs to stop half stepping, because they're falling behind at an alarming pace. It used to be that Palm was the company you went to when you wanted to choose among the most innovative products, but I've seen nothing but slipups in the past 3 years.

I've been waiting ever since I bought my Treo 90 for a unit that's worth my hard-earned cash, and I'm still waiting. I would have loved to have bought the T|C, but the scaled back multimedia features as compared with the Zire 71 made me pause. I've been pausing ever since.

Instead of integrating features and releasing the killer handhelds they need to release, they've been holding back, counting on early adopters to buy the great new incrementally better (but in some ways worse) model and the others to either settle later or hold out. I wonder do they see what I see, because I see all the power users I know leaving Palm to buy the newest Pocket PC's, which have all the hardware features they want, but at a much cheaper price than the Palm unit that even comes close.

This model shouldn't even be called the T5. It's more like the T|E2. Why doesn't Palm just bite the bullet and release the killer machine they know they could? Many people have lost their patience.

I just hope that the OS 6 Cobalt vapor coalesces into the unit that I've been waiting for all this time.

Peace Out
Alan

The author of DateBk 5 apparently feels the T5 is crap
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 11/22/2004 5:55:24 AM #
CESD (the well-respected author of DateBk 5) reportedly said this about the Tungsten 5:

Ok, I have now confirmed that yes, the reason the T5 is so slow is that their revised DM Patch DOES put the PalmSource database in Flash Rom. It is cached into Ram, but when the database is opened or closed, everything has to be copied into the much slower Flash Rom - hence the performance hit. And even simple requests for records end up going to Flash Rom - thereby
impacting performance. It also explains the bug that I have seen whereby you can get a:

VFSDBCache.c, Line:6761, DeleteRecord() called on invalid record

I was puzzled as to who was calling VFS since the DatebookDB database appears to be in RAM, but it apparently ends up calling VFS routines that access the internal flash drive, and there's obviously some bug whereby the DM Patch gets confused and messes up the record number for deletion.

At this point, it looks like the T5 may not be a good choice for those Palm Users who have an interest in running any third party software that accesses the standard PalmSource databases.

If you like the general form factor, you would probably be much better off with a Sony Th-55 and a 1gb Memory stick for around the same price.

I am of course revisiting the whole issue of supporting these undocumented, proprietary databases that PalmOne now seems determined on using, but this is not a trivial undertaking as it would require that support be added for all four proprietary databases - something that would require a parallel development effort and separate versions of the software. I have ordered a
T5 (another $400 only to look at device bugs) and will know more when I see this device in person.

I am disappointed that PalmOne is not only going against the philosophy of the Palm OS being an open platform by using proprietary databases, but that they also seem to think that providing support for third party applications (at least as good as older devices provided ) in this "compatibility mode" is no longer much of a priority either...

Cheers!
CESD, Pimlico Software, Inc.

> Anyone having a problem with their T5.

You and everyone who has bought one

> I had to get the update for the T5 because it would have Fatal Errors each time I would use DateBk5. But after the update I still have a problem with it locking-up after I put an appointment down in the calendar.

That's because the update does nothing to fix any of the bugs in the PalmOne DataManager patch. Just hold on some 24 hours or so as I will be posting a maintenance release VERY SHORTLY that talks directly to the proprietary calendar and memo databases thereby sidestepping their DataManager patch (several people have been testing this for me and all of them indicate it
eliminates all these problems on the T5 and also provides far better performance on the Tungsten T3, E, and Zire72/31).

With the T5, the Datamanager patch has moved IMHO from a designation of "kludge" to "worthless kludge" - it's basically unusable - not only because the performance is so bad, but because it was inadequately tested and has too many bugs to be considered a usable piece of software.

Among the very obvious problems when you try and use DateBk5 on a Tungsten T5 (or forthcoming Treo650) are:

1) Slow exit out of DateBk5 (One time, I clocked it at over 35 seconds!!).
2) Details dialog can take several seconds to appear
3) strange clicking noises and delays when executing simple functions
4) Unexpected crashes including ones with the message:

VFSBCache.c,line:6761 DeleteRecord()called and invalid record

The T5 is a nice looking device and has some nice features, but the testing was poor and this is by far the buggiest device that we've ever seen from a Palm licensee. I suspect there is a VERY good reason why PalmOne has announced the Treo650 (which uses the same architecture) but no carriers have started to make it available for sale(!).

I have to say that in ten minutes of testing after I got this device, I noted FOUR very obvious bugs, which leaves me at a loss to explain how a device like this could be released with such obvious errors - it does make you wonder if anyone even looked at this device before it was put up for sale...

Finally, while I may "Fix" DateBk5, this will not "fix" any other third party apps that use the built-in, standard Palmsource databases. So if you depend upon a third party addressbook app or memo app, or something like ToDO+, etc. you may well want to forgo the T5 (and the forthcoming Treo650)
as your experience will no doubt leave a bad taste in your mouth.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

It's good to hear it's not a bad unit..........but....

m130fullbutcontent @ 10/13/2004 5:42:23 AM #
Not wishing Palm OS to get wiped out by Mr Gates pda OS type I'm glad to hear that this unit has much good about it.

It remains though astonishing that the T5 has been stripped of such previously established standard 'high end pda'features as the 'vibrating alert' and voice recorder and that
wi-fi has been all but ignored.

If palmOnes market research is right and these T5's confound the critics and sell huge numbers like the basic 'Zires' have then I will applaud them - and then hope they put their resulting profits into new more attractive models like the T3 & Zire 72 which attract rather more the enthusiam from the loyal & experienced Palm OS pda community.



RE: It's good to hear it's not a bad unit..........but....
G M Fude @ 10/13/2004 6:22:53 AM #
Excellent review, I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on one for a test drive before making any further comments.

Ryan's observation, "The Tungsten E has been a big success for palmOne, becoming the top selling handheld every quarter since its introduction over a year ago," certainly explains much of Palm management's rationale.

Perhaps doesn't excuse the lack of a couple of high-end features that were expected and the surprisingly high introductory price -- but maybe the price will drop a lot when the "gotta have one first" geeks have spent their bucks.

RE: It's good to hear it's not a bad unit..........but....
PilotMad @ 10/13/2004 10:38:04 AM #
All this about the T5 being a result of the popularity of the TE just doesn't wash with me! The TE is a 'low end' model. It has been targeted aggressively with its pricing. Why wouldn't it be popular or fly off the shelves like the old zire. It does not mean that the design is therefor great for a high end model. Lack of voice recorder and slider is a real set back.

USB 1.1 (why not 2.0?) and Bluetooth 1.1 ... !!!!

From what i have seen on Tottenham CT road the TE is a favourite with many, in particular women. I myself have bought the girlfriend a TE. Men seem to be going for higher specified models (I have a T3).

I dont think the popularity of cheaper models and their designs/functions have necessarily anything to do with what makes higher end models more salesworthy.

Their popularity is due mainly to price.



PM.
----------------------
Palm Nirvana or bust!

Pictures

lwehrung @ 10/13/2004 7:56:32 AM #
Thank you for the best pictures of the device available thus far on the net!

Sincerely,
Lance

---------------------------------------
http://www.palmonecity.com
http://www.palmfocus.com

Customer Research

Alpha1220 @ 10/13/2004 8:07:44 AM #
Excellent review, as always. Just one comment: "Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done."

All I can say is ... wow. I can only imagine the customer research being done inside palmOne. Perhaps ... darts at the wall? Maybe they have office pools and pick amongst themselves for the study ...

RE: Customer Research
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 8:39:39 AM #
>>>"Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done."

They've got to get a better pool of customers to ask, dammit!

Put ME in that pool!

And, geez, the hp 41xx (47xx?, the numbers all bleed together after a while...) that had BT *and* WiFi wasn't exactly a brick!

RE: Customer Research
EricHC @ 10/13/2004 10:00:39 AM #
Plus we are talking about a technology they fit onto an SD card...

We can't honestly be talking about adding the kind of size and weight that would have the folks interested in this kind of feature saying, "Man, I wish Palm had left out the Wifi so I could carry around a separate Wifi Card that sticks out the top of my machine when I use it..."

Ever since the First Tungsten I have found Palm's refusal to include BT and WiFi on one machine downright frustrating...

I was waiting for a T5, but I have a feeling I'll be buying the T3 since it will be cheaper and is a bit smaller when not extended...

Eric Hausmerman Carroll
a.k.a. EricHC

RE: Customer Research
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 10:11:21 AM #
>>>Plus we are talking about a technology they fit onto an SD card...

Banging my head against the wall: Why do I keep forgetting that bit?!

RE: Customer Research
Mausoleum @ 10/13/2004 10:15:38 AM #
Well, actually, I think they are right. I find it upsetting how Palms have gotten larger and larger. Especially see the comparison! I really liked the Palm Vx (own one for many years). The T|T (also got one)... too thick already! Now comes the T5... same thickness but even longer.... Definitely, bigger = worse.

HOWEVER! Palm makes a big wrong assumption: That adding a second radio would increase the size? How come we get Palm V-sized Pockets PCs with Dual wireless?!?! I have a feeling that the hardware development department has been cut a LOT at Palm... The Tungsten T5 hardware is definitely NOT competitive.

OTOH... that whole flash drive IS pretty cool.... No more lost memory every.... nice!

RE: Customer Research
RAMd®d @ 10/13/2004 10:22:16 AM #
I wasn't a fan of Wi-Fi on a PDA, but now that the battery is a bit more robust, I have to ask "WTF?!" An SD chip hanging out of the slot just doesn't appeal to me.

The T5 appears to be about the size of my old iPAQ, and that's just a bit big for my taste. Perhaps it's a little thinner.

I'll look for it in the stores, but I don't feel my wallet working its way out of my pocket.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Customer Research
Foo Fighter @ 10/13/2004 10:27:07 AM #
>>> "Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done."

That is a load of horse poop. Does PalmOne not realize that other PDA vendors are doing this now, and for less money than they are charging for T5?

Confucious say..man who says it cannot be done should not interrupt man who is doing it.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com

RE: Customer Research
Gekko @ 10/13/2004 10:44:16 AM #

Confucious also say... "Excuses are like as$holes, everybody's got one."

RE: Customer Research
Alchemist42 @ 10/13/2004 10:49:11 AM #
Palm really needs to take a look at what their doing and where their going... The T5 sounds like a fairly solid machine by all accounts but its a T-E2 not in any sense a high end T-3 replacement.

Palm announces the T5, and a week later Dell comes out with their latest Pocket PC with 192mb memory (between flash and ram) dual wireless (Wifi/Bluetooth), dual expansion slots (SD, CF) removable battery with a 2200ma extended availabe, 624mhz CPU, and the real kicker their high end model ($100 moer than palm) has a 640x480 display!

Palm needs a wireless PDA with a 320x480 dispaly.

RE: Customer Research
kevdo @ 10/13/2004 2:48:16 PM #
Ed Colligan recently noted that the Tungsten C has only been a modest seller, implying that the market for integrated WiFi wasn't that big.

Of course, there are a lot of people who have avoided the Tunsten C due to a couple of "deal breaker" reasons:
* Mono headphone jack
* Integrated keyboard (a plus for some, admittedly)

Now, if PalmOne released a T5 type device with WiFi and then it didn't sell then I would back them on this line of argument. But until they do...

-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion

RE: Customer Research
plm922 @ 10/13/2004 3:37:36 PM #
I too had been waiting for this new machine to come out. I'm long past due to upgrade (Sony T615) but I was so disappointed when the T5 came out that I started to look at the T3 again, couldn't they even put a voice recorder in the T5? Well, with the price drop and a little bargaining, I was able to pick up a T3 at CompUSA for $336. I wish it had wi-fi in it, but I can live with the card sticking out for now. In a few years when I upgrade again maybe Palm will have the right machine out.

I had been looking at PPC, but no matter how impressive the hardware is, I could NOT bring myself to do it....

reformed lurker

RE: Customer Research
tooele @ 10/13/2004 9:54:30 PM #
They claim that addinging WI-FI would add size weight and cost. With the price they are selling it for it should have had WI-FI anyway. As for size the palmone WI-FI card is only 3mm thick and how much can a technology that fits on an SD card really weigh? A tenth of an ounce. I think Palmone is being cheap and just trying to sell more WI-FI cards.


RE: Customer Research
twizza @ 10/14/2004 9:52:45 AM #
[quote]
They claim that addinging WI-FI would add size weight and cost. With the price they are selling it for it should have had WI-FI anyway. As for size the palmone WI-FI card is only 3mm thick and how much can a technology that fits on an SD card really weigh? A tenth of an ounce. I think Palmone is being cheap and just trying to sell more WI-FI cards.[/quote]

Because it was probably not the wifi card itself that he was talking about but the size of the device after you add a larger battery so that a person can use the wifi for at least a few hours a day and not be pissed off that they need to charge it again, like the TC does. A battery that does that will make the device larger and less able to stay at a lower price point.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: Customer Research
emceephd @ 10/14/2004 11:31:40 AM #
As someone who has worked in customer research for over 10 years, I can speak to this topic with some experience.

It is clear that they need a new company to do their work. From the outside looking in, you can tell that either the research company was given a microscopic budget by PalmOne to do this (possible) or that the company did some key things wrong (more likely).

First, you want to interview the likely market for the T5. As we can all agree, the T5 customer is very different from their TE customer -- by design. Therefore, palmOne needs to do a distinct study with only the highest end consumer, one crazy enough (like me) to spend almost $400 for a handheld computer. You could interview current T3 users (most likely to buy a T5) or PocketPC users (who might switch, not now of course).

My guess is that the research company interviewed all potential PDA owners instead of the high-end folks.

Second, you need to ask the right questions. Simply asking someone in the abstract would they be more/less likely to buy a handheld if it had a larger body/Wi-Fi tradeoff is elementary grade school research. It doesn't mean anything.

You need to find out what the top features are that people want (expectations), what they have now that they like (satisfiers), and what they would be mad about if it changed (dissatisfiers).

It's clear that Wi-Fi and OS 6.0 were expectations, the large screen was a satisfier, and the potential loss of vibrating alarms (standard on any cell phone) is a dissatisfier.

Elementary, my dear palmOne biz exec.

Third, you need to test the product on a storyboard or -- better -- with a prototype. Yes, this would have tipped palmOne's hand to the general public (even if they lawyer the respondent to death, it will leak out). But, frankly, I would be encouraged that they were reaching out to customers and trying out ideas instead of zapping millions from their bottom line.

The big lie is that it takes a bundle of money to do good customer research. It doesn't. If palmOne wanted to spend millions on developing a T5, they could have spent 1% of their budget on customer reseach and found out what we all know now -- this thing is a dud.

Sad, but preventable.

-- Michael, VP at a U.S. customer research firm.

RE: Customer Research
Beavis @ 10/15/2004 2:01:28 PM #
"According to palmOne, they chose Bluetooth because it is now becoming widely available on a variety of consumer products and on the latest cell phones. Adding a second radio would have increased size, weight and cost, which wasn't supported by the customer research palmOne has done."

My Fujitsu-Siemens Loox 720: 4.8 x 2.8 x 0.60 Dual Slot/Dual Wireless (Bluetooth v1.2)

palmOne Tungsten T5: 4.76 x 3.08 x .61 Single Slot/Bluetooth Only (v1.1)

PalmOne, Don't insult our intelligence.

Excellent review

Calroth @ 10/13/2004 8:14:31 AM #
This is a great review. I was going to write something about the reviews on PalmInfocenter getting better, but I just realised that they've been consistently good for a while now (I also recall the Zire 72 and Clie TH55 reviews, also excellent). So keep up the good work!
RE: Excellent review
JohnM @ 10/13/2004 8:45:36 AM #
Hi,

About halfway down the review, the following sentence appears:

"The new Favorites is a simple application that acts much like
a luncher."
-------

I think this might be a typo that you may want to correct. OR, I
am not familiar with that slang, in which case "Never Mind...".

I wish I had a T5, my IIIc is very limiting,

John Miskinis

Independent Palm Software Developer

RE: Excellent review
Strider_mt2k @ 10/13/2004 11:23:29 AM #
No it is actually a luncher, as the unit bites.

(bah dum bum)

Still can't sort

iiixe @ 10/13/2004 8:29:50 AM #
You complained about the ancient DateBook alarm, but what about the fact that you still cannot sort the Contacts by first name? And you still can't sort the ToDo list alphabetically.

I should be able to sort on any field. How hard is that? Am I the only one who likes to sort stuff different ways?

When I show off my pda to non-pda users and tell them that it is not possible to sort Contacts by first name or the ToDo list alphabetically, they think I'm joking.

Everyone else is worried about the lack of wifi and the missing voice recorder -- I just want to sort my contacts by first name. (Yea, I know third party pim replacements can do it, but that's not really my point.)

RE: Still can't sort
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 8:42:54 AM #
I don't understand the need for this. Can you provide examples of how it would be handy?

RE: Still can't sort
iiixe @ 10/13/2004 9:29:08 AM #
Hmmm, maybe I AM the only one who likes to sort stuff lots of different ways.

I was stunned when I got my first Palm because the first thing I did was try to sort stuff, and the sort options were laughably limited -- and they still are.

Now I use Supernames, which not only lets me sort by any column, it also lets me have each category sorted differently. So some of my categories are sorted by last name, but others, such as my poker buddies are sorted by first name -- it's not a big deal, it's just the way I like to view them. Also, all my neighbors are sorted by street address, because that's just easier for me.

In Outlook, Contacts can be sorted by any column. In fact, sub-sorts are also possible. I also use sorting for quality control. It's easier for me to make sure I didn't miss anybody if I can sort my lists a few different ways. What can I say -- I just like to sort stuff -- it's one reason I love computers.

I just can't believe I'm limited to two sort options in Palm, "Last Name, First Name" or "Company, Last Name". Maybe that would be ok in version 1.0, but after all these years, why couldn't they add some other sort options?


RE: Still can't sort
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 10:06:23 AM #
I see your point now. Thanks.

>>>Maybe that would be ok in version 1.0, but after all these years, why couldn't they add some other sort options?

Now I wonder if PalmSource has added anything like this to the Cobalt version of the Contacts program? Maybe you should email them!

RE: Still can't sort
Bobbert @ 10/13/2004 10:22:37 AM #
Sorting todos alphabetically....

This is the most important thing for me, but even 3rd party apps don't do it. If one did, I'd buy the app immediately!

The reason is that I want to be able to order within a priority. E.g. If there are 10 things to do today, I rank them as priority #1, but they are not ordered according to what I want to do first, or at least see first on the list. I could fix that by putting 1_Shower; 2_Put on pants; 3_Put on shoes; 4_Tie shoes; 5_Go to work; 6_Sleep; 7_Go Home from work. Sort by priority/alpha and it's more useful to me.

But I guess I must be one of the few people that cares or we would have seen it in some 3rd party todo apps.

P.S. Now I feel like I'm following you Mike! But it's good to see people active on the forums.

Check out www.MobileRead.com for some great mobile computing info!

RE: Still can't sort
RAMd®d @ 10/13/2004 10:27:24 AM #
I'd like a First Name Sort option too.

In fact, I've been entering contact info (and even my Artists info for CDs) by first name for years. For me, it makes it much more intuitive.

If I had several (or even a few) first names that were similar, it *might* be a different story.

______________________________
An armed society is a polite society.

RE: Still can't sort
beneden @ 10/13/2004 12:08:01 PM #
Can't but agree - as I have voiced here previously, PIM features are still very lacking. It seems though that most users are fine with that. Personally, I'd expect close Entourage/Outlook functionality now that the handhelds have the display and power. Instead, the focus seems to be on video playback..

Ben

Photographer, using Palm M515 and can't decide on what next..
http://www.beneden.com/wedding/uk/london/

RE: Still can't sort
Ou_Boet @ 10/13/2004 2:18:17 PM #
If you really want to use the todo idea and have sorting based on more than one option, check out Shadow Plan. It does all you describe above and more.

Similarly with other 3rd party contact managers, DateBK and Agendus. Check them out.

OB

-------------------------------------------------
Any device can have one more useful feature added.

HandEra Moderator at [url="http://www.PalmVenue.com/forum"]PalmVenue[/url]

RE: Still can't sort
Gekko @ 10/13/2004 2:31:20 PM #

AddressPro 6.6



RE: Still can't sort
pd_workman @ 10/13/2004 3:02:23 PM #
Keysuite can sort the address book various different ways, and has recently added an alpha sort to the tasks, which I agree is very useful. And of course multiple categories on any items!

KeySuite uses its own databases, not the built-in ones, so it does not interface directly with things like Datebk5, Lifebalance, and Shadow.

pdw

RE: Still can't sort
svrontis @ 10/14/2004 11:23:58 PM #
According to the manual, the Tasks program lacks the 'show only due items' filter. I can't believe this. They INCLUDED useless junk (eg BT radio and MP3 player) but they EXCLUDED the single most useful function of the old To Do List.

RE: Still can't sort
svrontis @ 10/14/2004 11:31:08 PM #
Bobbert, you might wish to try CanDo from elkasoft.com - it sorts tasks alpabetically and does other nice things too.

What's that app?!

mikecane @ 10/13/2004 8:45:58 AM #
In the menu of last accessed applications -- 666 Hell Clock?

RE: What's that app?!
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 9:28:34 AM #
Great! Thanks. There's some nice software at that site. I wish I had the RAM to try out Ender. (Having gotten the TE down to just 12K free RAM last week and having to hard reset, I am trying to be more careful about what I squeeze into the unit!)

T5 Screen

T. @ 10/13/2004 8:42:20 AM #
Great review.

Some times it is difficult to get by the R&R (ranting & raving) on this site but the admin posts are worth it.

Unlike most others here, wifi is not an issue at all for me. I bought the card and as long as it will work on the T5, then I prefer it not built in. I will need a g card anyway when and if they are available.

The review mentions the screen being as good as the T3. I saw an earlier review that said the T5 was not as bright as the T3. Any comments on this?

Also, it was mentioned that the screen was still usable in bright sunlight. My T3 washes out in bright sunlight to the point of being unusable. I use the Belkin screen protector and don't know how much they contribute to this problem. I have ordered something called "Crystal CLear" protectors from boxwave but haven't tried them yet. Anybody else have a similar problem in bright light?


RE: T5 Screen
LiveFaith @ 10/13/2004 10:46:08 AM #
I read another review where the T5E2 had a brighter screen than T3. PalmOne, like most any mfctr, does not have all her eggs in the basket of one component supplier. The T3 uses screens from at least 4 suppliers that I have found.

I was at Staples recently and picked up a T3 and went to turn it to full brightness. It was already at full! I pulled my T3 out of my pocket and it was much much brighter. This is a very significant issue for those buying a $400 unit. I would make sure I got the "bright one" b/c you can always dim it. Mine is almost never too dim, but in full darkness it is sometimes too bright.

Transflective technology as on the T3/T5E2 are typically below grade in direct sun, but still very useable. It is not as good outdoors as 'reflective' technology (TT, m5x5), but far superior outdoor (and indoor) to 'backlit' technology (m130, Zire31, Treo90) screens.

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

RE: T5 Screen
Wolfgard @ 10/13/2004 11:10:36 AM #
Nice screen, but how dim can the screen go? The Zire 72 that I used to have was TOO bright IMHO. I had trouble reader for hours (sometimes 4-7 hours) even with the lowest setting. And I guess they still don't offer the option to turn off the backlight.

I still prefer Sony's high res screens. At least the dim setting is quite dark enough and there's an option to turn off the backlight, which is useful when I just need to switch apps or maybe search a word or two in my dictionary.

Besides, there's one issue no review mentioned yet - Is the screen noisy? That's the main reason I'm staying away from P1 devices for now.

pen & paper -> m515 -> Zire72

RE: T5 Screen
Altema @ 10/13/2004 12:43:13 PM #
You are right, there is a large variation in screen quality. My first T3 was bright, but had a bluish tint. My wife's T3 is bright and whiter (why does SHE always get the perfect ones?). Bright is nice, but the T3 has always been on the bright side (at least for me). Although it won't burn your retinas like the IIIc, the T3 is brighter than most users will ever need. I typically use mine set between 20% and 30%.

My recent replacement T3 was not as bright as my former unit, but this was better for me because I do use it at night. Being able to read comfortably in bed is nice. Also, the new unit does not have the bluish cast... I rather have truer white balance than maximum brightness.

RE: T5 Screen
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 1:14:31 PM #
Too bright screen?

http://silkdimmer.sourceforge.net/

-- works great on my TE. Turns off the backlight. Will *not* turn it off completely on a T3, though.

RE: T5 Screen
Purfekshunist @ 10/13/2004 4:46:24 PM #
LiveFaith seems to have addressed the issue (transreflective vs. reflective), but yes, I am also disappointed with my T3's readability outdoors. I frequently read on my Palm while walking from place to place. I had no problem, even in bright sunlight, with my m515, but the T3 is almost unreadable. I'm using the clear screen protector from Brando Workshop, but I don't think any of these clear protectors have an impact on the readability (or lack thereof) of the screen.

It will be interesting to find out how the T5's screen really performs in comparison to that of the T3. As has been pointed out, however, there might be significant variability between devices.

RE: T5 Screen
Altema @ 10/13/2004 5:14:24 PM #
"Will *not* turn it off completely on a T3, though."

Yeah, and that was the problem, there was not going beyond the lowest setting. So there I would be in bed with this screen glaring in my eyes and casting shadows on the ceiling. Oh well, now I have a unit that goes lower, and 1Gig cards are down to $76 US, I'm happy.

Senility built in?

mschmalenbach @ 10/13/2004 8:54:21 AM #
I found the review very useful - irrespecyive of whether the T5 is 'good or bad' the review of it felt to me to be well considered. Thank you.

Like some previous commentators I would rather have my wifi option as a plug-in extra - it's a choice/power thing I guess, and I don't use wifi on a constant basis. For those who do I can understand the disappointment. I'm not jumping for joy about the price either.

But, there are many things that would appeal to me, if I could get a little more clarity.

For starters, the FLASH RAM - what kind of technology is it - hopefully it's single cell NAND FLASH technology. It's cheaper and faster than other kinds (though tends to be just a little larger in physical terms). My concern though is over the life cycle - just 100,000 write cycles. If this was for a digital camera that's not an issue. But it's not for a digital camera. It's for a PDA. Is there some reasonable sized scratch pad static RAM buried away somewhere on the CPU (i.e. NOT the FLASH RAM) that has unlimited write cycle life time - it wouldn't take many programme loops and associated counters to start nibbling away at the FLASH RAM - I guess the way the OS is actually structured will have a big part to play.

I just want to know if, should I buy one of these, the thing isn't going to go senile on me anytime soon!

Perhaps I should look at a T3 or a Zodiac 2? Does anybody know if the Zodiac works with the wifi card?

(Hey, until it was stolen recently, I was on an original Sony Clie S300!! Even a low end Zire 31 would be a step up - and I loved my Clie!)

Martin Schmalenbach
Director
Potential Energy Ltd
www.p-nrg.com

RE: Senility built in?
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 9:17:34 AM #
I have an S320 and just went to a TE. Beware of battery life with color units. If battery is your thing, get a Zod. But it still can't do WiFi.

http://writingonyourpalm.net/column040705.htm

http://writingonyourpalm.net/column040614.htm

RE: Senility built in?
lwehrung @ 10/13/2004 10:56:53 AM #
mschmalenbach,

The Zodiac is an excellent device, and Tapwave is suppose to have a WiFi card available this year. I have a Zodiac 2 that would be my primary device if I could find a hard case for it. Until then, I am still hanging on to my Tungsten T3.

Take care,
Lance

---------------------------------------
http://www.palmfocus.com

RE: Senility built in?
Haber @ 10/14/2004 2:20:14 AM #
"it's a choice/power thing I guess..."

Could always have a power managment option to turn the WiFi circuitry off, right? If Palm doesn't supply one, perhaps a hack?

Wi-Fi switch
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/14/2004 3:31:02 AM #
http://homepage3.nifty.com/Khiguchi/FreeSoft/HotSwitch/index_enUS.htm



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

Take a look at the competition

dq @ 10/13/2004 10:03:19 AM #
In a strange coincidence, I looked today at this review and this other one:

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2258&review=Dell+Axim+X50

It is amazing how PalmOS and CE devices look alike this days. Sidestepping the OS differences, the hardware and user interface are *very* similar.

If you compare the specs of the Basic and Advanced Axim X50, you notice that WiFi had no impact on the weight! Also all Axim models have removable batteries and a microphone, I can't understand will PalmOne would not include this.

RE: Take a look at the competition
Mausoleum @ 10/13/2004 10:22:20 AM #
Well, don't know about the X30, but I looked at the X50... significanlty thicker. BAD. The T5 is already too thick.

RE: Take a look at the competition
statik @ 10/13/2004 11:00:29 AM #
I'm not a big fan of removeable batteries.

I remember supporting one user with a Palm m105. She complained that all her data was lost when she switched batteries. *sigh* It took a bit of prodding but I eventually found out she removed the batteries from her Palm and put them in her VCR's remote control to watch a movie. When she put the batteries back in the Palm two hours later, of course it was dead.

Now you wouldn't be able to use the current batteries in a remote control, but it still leaves a lot of room for the "My data is erased and I have no backup" stuff to happen.

After saying all that, now that Palm is using the new non-volitile RAM I'm hoping we will see removeable batteries soon.


RE: Take a look at the competition
hotpaw4 @ 10/13/2004 1:42:02 PM #
PDA's are likely all manufactured by ODM's currently (except for Sony). The major vendor choices are lores/hires/HVGA (PalmOS) or QVGA/VGA (PPC), button and case labeling, and the licensee's ROM. The only differentiators seem to be feature bundling, included software and marketing.

The lack of camera, microphone, and medium-range radio (wifi), makes the T5 look like a device designed for environments where cell phones are not desired or allowed. Product differentiation, or *BIG* OEM customer(s)?


RE: Take a look at the competition
Targaid @ 10/17/2004 10:11:18 AM #
Statik, just because the drones who use them and are the bane of tech-support's life doesn't mean that the rest of us should have to suffer. The built-in obsolescence of a non-removable, expensive to replace batery is, imho, the worst thing that P1 has inflicted on its users over the years. I'm only just planning to upgrade from my IIIxe because I want BT. WiFi would be nice, but isn't needed and all the bells & whistles on the newer machines are just that.

A PDA needs to handle data, talk to other devices and work when you need it. I get 3-6 months out of a pair of AAAs and my unit is years old. No rechargeable battery lasts for ever and I don't see why I should have to pay a bloody fortune to have P1 change it for me, or be unable to change it should it begin to run low at a crucial moment. PPCs are becoming MUCH more attractive to me because I can carry a spare battery and swap out at my leisure.

Like many of the earlier respondents to this thread I can't belive they've done any serious customer research. 5 minutes on these forums would make it plain what a lot of people wanted from this new machine. I'm just surprised that there aren't more complaints about this hose-job.

Oh, and when daling with the like of the lady you mentioned just remember this axim - Never underestimate the stupidity of the public.

Thanks for your review

PIC-user @ 10/13/2004 10:23:32 AM #
I am disappointed that they took backward steps in the reset pin and removal of vibration (which I use a lot while in office to minimize distraction). I have come to expect a lot from the Palm flagship model and frankly they goofed on this one. I was looking forward to the T5 now I look forward to the T6 (hopefully, if they listen to us this time). I would not complain as much on Wifi if they at least designed two SD slots into the unit to hold both a WIFI card and a memory card.
The Speaker layout you mentioned does seem odd and may be due to the way the hardware fits inside the case maybe? Still when they bought out the Tungsten T1 I thought (and still do now) that it was one of their best designs and that Palmone could only improve it (T3). I was sad to read that with the T5 they have regressed and not progessed.

Excellent Review

Gekko @ 10/13/2004 10:14:44 AM #

Ryan - Excellent review. It's a shame that all of your talent, effort, enthusiasm, hard work, and dedication to the Palm platform is matched by PalmOne/Palm Source only with laziness, arrogance, lackadaisical attitudes, incompetence, and ultimately - weak ho-hum offerings.

In the words of the great Jim Mora, this $400 T5 and the MIA OS6 are embarrassing, shameful, disgraceful, pitiful, and horrible. I don't know how these guys can collect their paychecks with a straight face. They can sit on the ball and live off of the Treo for a few more years but that will not save them.

Thanks for all of your efforts.

GG



RE: Excellent Review
LiveFaith @ 10/13/2004 10:58:04 AM #
Gekko,
Am I hearing you say you're a little disappointed in P1? :-O

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com
RE: Excellent Review
LiveFaith @ 10/13/2004 11:15:31 AM #
Ryan,
Thanks for the review. Although the "roar of mutiny" has been furious, you delivered a well balanced perspective.

These got my attention concerning further deficits as compared to the T3, which the T5E2 was downgraded from ...

#1
The media application is quick and support native gif, jpeg and mpeg movies. It was able to play every video I thew at it, but it does not expand the movie fill up the screen when possible and doesn't do full screen video.

Strange? How on earth could a software developer even begin to write an application that only uses a portion of the screen? The screen real estate is the most precious resource on a PDA. 416mhz is plenty of juice, even w/o grafix-excel to handle this. No? Maybe the appa is written to run on a 126mhz model too? The T3 handles full screen with Kinoma. Bewildering!

#2 reset pin
The large reset pin hole is a nice feature on a T3. Simply punch with the stylus tip and it's done. The smaller hole on the T5 as on most PalmOne models force you to unscrew the stylus or use a paper clip or other inconvienience. This is certainly a step backwards. But to P1s credit, this is probably a must based on a non-slider design. The T3s hole is hidden behind the closed slider which naturally protects it from the elements. A tablet device probably should not allow it. Thankfully the stylus includes a reset pin.

BTW, I'm sure that metal stylus with reset pin adds a lot more weight than Wifi, as compared to a plastic one. Maybe PalmOne meant the weight of the necessary battery too. :-

Pat Horne; www.churchoflivingfaith.com

1A Excellent Review
gasikest @ 10/13/2004 12:13:11 PM #
This is a big disappointment. I used to love Palm for its functionality and uniqueness. It was like Mac vs. Ms. Mac computers have always had an added functionality, and still are pioneers in many ways…. With everything cool coming up. I was expecting the same from Palm – to be a creative alternative. For that company to be successful, it has to constantly re-invent itself. As of today, I am disappointed with a way over-priced, stripped version of palm. Just to make the pain worse, Dell came up with Axim X50v. Compare for yourself…. 
Axim X50v features include:
• 624 MHz Intel Xscale PXA270 processor
• 128 MB Flash ROM and 64 MB SDRAM memory with XMB (cross media bar) on-screen navigation to access memory
• Integrated 802.11b Wi-Fi
• Intel 2700G multimedia accelerator with 16 MB of video memory, providing DVD-quality video playback and supporting dual display capability for professional presentations
• 3.7" VGA display

sad, but true

RE: Excellent Review for a sucky PDA
rav @ 10/13/2004 12:19:03 PM #
First of all, EXCELLENT review of the T5.

I was hoping to trade in my T2 for a T5 hoping it would have WiFi built-in. But for the high price of the T5 ($400!) and less features than the T2 (T2 has compact metal slider case, a standard cradle that allows hotsync and AC charge, front speaker, vibrate and LED alarms, voice recorder, etc...), I think I'll stick with the T2 until maybe P1's next big thing...

I wish someone at P1 would seriously survey their customers and give us a PDA that WE want and not some corporate version that they think we want. I mean, Bluetooth? I don't know of one single person who owns a PDA and uses Bluetooth... but I know of many, many PDA users who use WiFi (most of them PPC users). Where is P1 getting their information that Bluetooth is more popular, better, etc??? Bluetooth is the BetaMax of PDAs and WiFi is what we want!

Oh well, we can keep complaining until we're blue (tooth) in the face because no matter what us users say, P1 will still do what they want and continue to make lacking PDAs - hey P1, ever use focus groups, customer feedback, or read PIC or any other PDA website? Stop paying the bean counters so much dough and spend a little more in marketing/customer R&D...

And, don't even get me started on the ludicrous $400 retail price... that alone could be a story in itself.

Those PPC from Dell are starting to look very good right about now...heard they're coming out with a new one today.



RE: Excellent Review
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 1:18:31 PM #
How much is Dell paying these people to spam this site in the guise of "posts"?

That said, I've read the 50v review -- and palmOne looks very bad by comparison.

RE: Excellent Review
Gekko @ 10/13/2004 2:11:21 PM #

MikeCon - that accusation was old 5 years ago. Enough already. Pull your head out of you a$$.



RE: Excellent Review
InsGuy @ 10/13/2004 2:27:11 PM #
No one is paying me a damn thing. (I wish they were though, since people will be shelling out $499 for a pda. But, I'd rather pay a higher price, and get the functions that I need, than buy palm, so palm execs keep their jobs. In fact, I did just that.

All good things...
Re: Bluetooth use
BuzzWriter @ 10/13/2004 2:47:12 PM #
While I agree with many of the comments here, I wanted you to know there's at least one Bluetooth user out here who would sorely miss that feature (I already miss the voice recorder and slider and silent features). I use it for quick synchs without the hassle of pulling out the USB cord. I've even considered getting rid of my portable palm collapsable keyboard in favor of a bluetooth-linked model (although I haven't yet checked to make sure currently available keyboards and mouse would link to the BT in the TungstenT).

Mac user, marketing communications specialist
RE: Excellent Review
Ba-gug @ 10/13/2004 9:36:03 PM #
Yes, in deed an great review, A quote:

"While I rarely discuss what a handheld doesn't include, for the T5 I have to make an exception. Many PalmInfocenter readers were very disappointed that the T5 did not include built in WiFi. Users were further dissatisfied to see that the latest version of the Palm OS, Cobalt not used as well.

Todays highly competitive PDA market practically demands that a high end PDA model include the wireless standard. Its absence on the T5 left many users scratching their heads in disbelief that it was not incorporated. I feel that this was an oversight, as a result the lack of integrated WiFI could negatively impact sales of this device. palmOne has announced that the WiFi SD card will be supported, but this is not the most ideal solution and adds additional cost. Many competing handhelds in this price range will already have built in WIFI standard."

And that is why I will not be buying a T5, in fact if Palm dosen't get off of their butts, and at least offer one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi, Then I will begin looking at an alternative PDA. I'm not a PPC fan, but it's time PALM!


"Hambug or Ba-gug, that's me.!"

RE: Excellent Review
fleegle @ 10/14/2004 8:47:17 AM #
Ba-gug wrote:
"...in fact if Palm dosen't get off of their butts, and at least offer one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi, Then I will begin looking at an alternative PDA."

Palm does offer "one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi", it is the Tungsten C. :-P

RE: Excellent Review
Ba-gug @ 10/14/2004 10:19:52 PM #
Palm does offer "one unit with BUILT-IN WiFi", it is the Tungsten C." :-P


Yes, I know, but the form factor of TT, T2, or T3 not a brick to carry around in my pocket.

"Hambug or Ba-gug, that's me.!"

No Silent Features?

He||Raiser @ 10/13/2004 12:22:40 PM #
How could they ditch the vibration function? Being a college student (although I suppose this would also go for any business professional as well), I want to be able to silence my Palm and yet still know when an alarm goes off while in class. This new iteration in the line of Palm handhelds has been a severe disappointment. I'm not saying that the vibration feature was the make or break feature; I just bring it up in frustration to illustrate the lack of thought put into this device.

Som thoughts

Rome @ 10/13/2004 12:08:56 PM #
Okay, I am not crazy about T5 myself, but I wasn't planning on buying one any way. So I don't really care one way or another...Treo 650 is my baby this Christmas. However, I feel that many people here are being too harsh on P1 for putting out the T5.

- P1 does have a wifi model, and it is called the Tungsten C, which has been out for about 18 months!!! Sammy over at Palmaddict loves his C and uses it all the time.
- Tungsten C has not been a best seller for P1. If wifi were so much in demand by all PDA users as many of you have suggested on this forum, why isn't P1 selling more Cs?
- Sony's European TH55 and American UX50 both have wifi and bluebooth, and guess what, Sony is pulling out of all markets outside of Japan. I guess Sony is not selling enough TH55 and UX50 to justify staying in the PDA business outside of Japan.
- Sure, a lot of the new Pocket PC PDAs have both wifi and bluebooth. But, the last time I was at Amazon, the top selling pdas were all P1's without wifi!!!

As Ryan had already mentioned in his review, Tungsten E has been the #1 selling PDA ever since it was introduced. I am sure that most of its success is due to its attractive price point. But this also tells me that most average mainstream users out there don't have a need for wifi or bluebooth at this time. You and I may find setting up a wifi connection a relatively mundane task, but I have helped enough of my colleagues and neighbors with their wifi setup to know that it is not a trivial job for a lot people out there.

Nevertheless, I do think that the price on the T5 may be a little high, but that's an easy problem to fix for P1.


RE: Som thoughts
kevdo @ 10/13/2004 2:58:48 PM #
As noted above, why T|C doesn't sell more:

* mono headphone jack
* keyboard a problem for some (a plus for others)
* Hasn't been reved in 18 months. Doesn't contain PIM enchancements, etc...


-Kevin Crossman, Palm Powered Software Champion

RE: Som thoughts
hkklife @ 10/13/2004 3:49:08 PM #
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

All P1 needed to do was stick a larger battery, OS 5.2.8 or 5.4.x into a revised T|C w/ a darker T|W style casing with a standard headphone jack. Oh, and lower the MSRP to $350ish. It would've been an instant hit even with "just" 64mb RAM and 320*320. Such a release should have accompanied the launch of the Zires back this spring. At the very least, an OS upgrade and built-in app ROM upgrade should be offered to existing T|C owners at no charge, seeing as how P1 still has the audacity to charge $400 MSRP for a handheld that'll soon be 2 years old without a single tweak or revision.

Why not have features?
JShoo @ 10/13/2004 6:29:27 PM #
The issue though is that if PalmOne's competitors can bundle a lot of hardware features and still keep prices and size down, then why won't P1 do it? There is no prize for having the least features.

I'm concerned about the T5 battery life

Mr T @ 10/13/2004 12:10:09 PM #
Ryan, could you please elaborate on your generalized statement regarding battery life. You say you got about 5 hours. How much exactly is it?

I know you've used BatteryGraph in the past so you should have a more accurate number. Also, what brightness level was the backlight on, other conditions such as BT use or listening to mp3.

Based on the reviews I've read so far I'm starting to get the impression that the T5 DOES NOT have a 1300 mah battery.

Palmone makes no mention of this rating anywhere on their website or in the pdf documentation. They don't even make any claims about the expected battery life.

In the manual from the FCC website, palm tells the user to charge the battery at least 1/2 an hour each day just as they do in the TE manual (I own a TE)

In the infosync review, for some unknown reason they neglected to test the T5's battery life using their standard Atom Smash battery rundown test. They instead do a continous mp3 loop test with the screen OFF and then they claim a shocking 7 hr 15 minute result. Well, I ran a similar test on my TE (840 mah battery) yesterday and I got 7 hrs 25 minutes playing mp3 looped with the screen off. I was shocked.

Same with the Gadgeteer review where she says that the T5 shows 95% after 1 hr mp3 and 1/2 hr movies and pictures. Well I did the same with my TE and I was at 93%. Again this is inconclusive.

Other reviews have given very generalized statements about battery life.

I'm starting to think that palmone is trying to pull a fast one on us by allowing this 1300 mah myth to spread while never actually confirming the true battery rating.

I hope I'm proven wrong, maybe with a picture of the T5's battery showing mah rating or with an acutal battery rundown comparison between a T5 and a TE/T3. Until it's proven otherwise, I am going to assume that the T5 does not have a 1300 mah battery.


RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
twizza @ 10/13/2004 1:11:02 PM #
I cannot speak for all reviewers but it is hard to give a fully battery test if you only have the device for a week or so. Ryan has probably not had the device as long as some other places and that would/could attribute to the battery stats not being so "nice." I am sure that the battery life is better than the T3 and probably better than the TE as well. But if it is not better than the TE then you will have to take into consideration a more powerful processor and more RAM and a larger screen to power as being the culprits. From that end, it may be only as good as the TE. And from those who I know that have a TE, they get by with charging once or twice a week, though it is recommended that you keep the batteries topped off as much as possible.

Oh yea, Ryan, great review. You seemed to cover in depth what some others had not been able to.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
mikecane @ 10/13/2004 1:23:33 PM #
>>>And from those who I know that have a TE, they get by with charging once or twice a week...

Geez! I sometimes have to charge TWICE A DAY with my TE. I really *use* it.

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Admin @ 10/13/2004 1:55:58 PM #
I've only had the T5 for less than a week so I didn't really have enough time to make a solid conclusion. I will update the article in another week about the battery life.

I find that standard "torture tests" when you just drain the battery down, don't really tell you anything about battery stanima. Thats not how people use PDAs in the real world.

BattryGraph reported I got 4:45 minutes of ON time from my first charge cycle. I was heavily using the device, using lots of bluetooth, drive mode and browsing. This was over a period of roughly 3 days.

While its not a huge improvement, my initial conclusion is that it does have slightly better life than the T3.

When fully charged batterygraph reports 4000 mV, with a warn threshold of 3640 mV

-Ryan

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Altema @ 10/13/2004 5:28:06 PM #
That IS an improvement over the T3. My first T3 got about 5 hours of very light use, 3 hours of heavy use per charge. It was replaced by a refurb after a digitizer problem. The refurb only got 3 hours if you had the screen all the way down, the audio off, the BT off, and it caught a slight extra charge from sunspots or absorbed some power by osmosis from my cellphone.

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Altema @ 10/13/2004 5:40:49 PM #
Mike, how many hours of actual runtime do you put on your TE a day? Or are you one of those "gotta turn it on before it's done charging for the first time" persons... ;)

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
JShoo @ 10/13/2004 6:10:50 PM #
Why assume that PalmOne would lie about having a 1300 mAh battery when they would be liable for that in a court of law?

That battery life does sound greatly better than my T3's 900 mAh batter. After the 1.5 hours quoted by the Gadgeteer I would by in the 65-75% range, not 90%+.

The best test is for someone to pull the damn battery out and look at it.

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
Mr T @ 10/13/2004 7:40:56 PM #
Ryan,

Thanks for the clarification. I will await your update.

The only reason I'm concerned about the T5's battery life is because I'm tired of charging my TE on a daily basis (backlight on lowest setting) and I'd like to stay with the palm os but I'm also considering the hp 3715 which has a 1400 mah battery and awesome battery life (according to reviews).

In my heart, I'm hoping the T5 will last at least a full day of heavy use with the backlight at a reasonable level because I really like the palm os and would rather not change.

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
twizza @ 10/14/2004 10:01:33 AM #
Mr. T.
I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but if you are using the TE so much that you need to charge it everyday, then the rx3715 will fare the same way. It is not a beast with the battery. I say only cause I own it. After 1hr of just MP3 playing I am down to 80-85%. It does not have extrodinary battery life as compared to palmOS devices. It DOES have better battery life than many other WinMobile devices out there.

Also, like Ryan said, a true measure of battery life is not make one program run until it dies. Yes, that is the only type of test that is going to work on different devices of differeing hardware and OS types, but it is in no mean accurate. The best way to see true battery life, from the perspective of a reviewer who wants people to take their work seriously, is to use teh device and have a program gage battery usage over the course of using that product for at least a week. Doing things like that seems to be missed on the brains of some reviewers, but not Ryan who is making an attempt to give a good measure of battery life - hint, it will be better than the T3 and TE but will not match the Vx.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: I'm concerned about the T5 battery life
mikecane @ 10/15/2004 8:33:04 AM #
>>>Mike, how many hours of actual runtime do you put on your TE a day? Or are you one of those "gotta turn it on before it's done charging for the first time" persons... ;)

I've not installed a utility to track on-time. I've had bad experiences with such a util on my S320.

But now that I have the ability to play MP3s, I use that now too!

Overall, I'd have to say I get about 4 hours maybe? That's with MP3 included. But I just won't go out with the thing *without* carrying the AC. I could go through two heavy days with the S320 before needing AC. I can't go through one with the TE...

Transient Memories

Patrick @ 10/13/2004 12:40:24 PM #
Great review, Ryan, as usual. We're spoiled by the quality of your work, I'd say.

However, I take issue with your leaving out the fact that both the device and the internal memory are wiped out by a hard reset. This astonishing fact obliterates the "safety net" aspect of this trumpeted new feature. Yes, you can come back to your T5 after a year of non-use and the memory is still intact, but what you cannot do is be so foolish as to run a program which locks up your device beyond the ability of a soft reset to fix.

I don't know about others, but this has happened to me far, far more times than my battery draining to zero. IMO, Palm is setting unsuspecting users up for a big fall with this feature.

If Palm really wanted to keep our data safe, they would have designed internal memory to be persistent under hard-reset conditions. Better still, they should have forgotten about this silly internal drive idea altogether, given us lots of device RAM and put in dual SD slots. I've never had files on an SD card go bad due to low batteries, nor due to a problem application.


RE: Transient Memories
madhatter @ 10/13/2004 4:11:32 PM #
"However, I take issue with your leaving out the fact that both the device and the internal memory are wiped out by a hard reset"

Great.. please sell me your Palm that cannot be hard reset.. make sure all your bank account numbers etc are in there. I for one, want a way to reset my Palm so that I can start fresh. I don't want to have the battery run down and lose everything, but I do want a way to clear out the entire Palm without having to somehow erase each and every program manually. I don't think that not surviving a hard reset is a negative.

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

RE: Transient Memories
Patrick @ 10/13/2004 11:54:40 PM #
Clearing out each program individually? What the heck are you talking about? Ever heard of a disk format? It's one step.


RE: Transient Memories
madhatter @ 10/14/2004 7:26:59 AM #
"Ever heard of a disk format?"

Yep.. on a Palm device it called hold down the power button and the reset pin at the same time.. also known as a hard reset.

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

RE: Transient Memories
whitemiata @ 10/14/2004 10:35:26 AM #
The jury is still out on the Survive Hard Reset issue.

Let me explain.

Here's behaviour I fully support, wether we're dealing with the T5 or T3 or my Zire71:

I press the reset button while holding the power button

The palm says "Press UP to wipe all data"

I press UP

all data goes.

That is OK by me (if I had it my way it would do something like ask you to tap UP, then down then up again, to avoid the possibility that a hard-reset accidentally happened while your up button was being pressed by your case - yes it can happen).

Here is behaviour that I DO NOT support on my Zire71, on the T3, and that I'm still HOPEFUL Palm has eliminated from the T5:

I run some application, it crashes beyond belief, it triggers a hard-reset, it wipes my data.

That is not acceptable, period.

Frankly I don't understand why it happens on current PalmOS PDAs. It's clearly not that RAM is getting wiped out by power going away... so why is it happening?

I really hope that Palm has addressed this in the T5.

If not, then PalmSource BETTER Have handled it in OS6. It's clearly an OS issue.

Alessandro

RE: Transient Memories
Patrick @ 10/14/2004 1:35:44 PM #
You can't say that software won't ever result in a hard reset. I think this would be very hard for a complex software system to guarantee. Reboots/resets (together with a proper backup regimen) are an acceptable compromise, IMO, to the huge extra cost that would be part of a more exhaustive testing strategem. This is a trade-off, of course, and we hear that (maybe not anymore) that the PPC folk suffer from this going too far to the low-testing-high-reset-frequency end of the spectrum.

My opinion is that the hard reset on a T5 with its device memory and internal memory should work the way it does now on my T3 with its device memory and an SD card: the device memory is wiped and the SD card, or the internal memory, is retained. If you really want to wipe out the internal memory as well, you do the hard reset first, then you reformat the internal "drive" using programs available in the ROM (e.g., "Card Info"). I would say that this last case wouldn't happen all that often. Most of the time when you do a hard reset, you would want to retain the internal memory and only wipe out the device memory.

But to say that a hard reset wipes out the internal memory as well as the device memory is, IMO, unacceptable and destroys the primary advantage of having an internal flash drive.

RE: Transient Memories
whitemiata @ 10/14/2004 4:15:00 PM #
Patrick,

I can't agree that a software-caused hard-reset should induce a wipe of the device's memory on a T5.

It makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever.

The only plausible explanation for a software crash on a pre-T5 PDA causing a complete wipe-out of memory is that the crash is SO SEVERE that it causes the device to actually CUT POWER to it's RAM.

If that happens on a T5 the content of RAM should be retained.

So far I've heard one report that a hard reset on a T5 results in the data being wiped out.

I continue to hope that the jury is still out on what that really means.

If the tester pressed the back button while holding power button, then tapped up when prompted to wipe all data, then I would hope that internal memory did in fact get wiped out.

But if the tester ran an application that caused the T5 to lock up and THAT caused RAM to be wiped, then that's a sad outcome, a sign Palm dropped the ball on this.

I know a lot of you out there think Palm dropped the ball anyway by not including a voice recorder and WIFI, but if it turns out that a major crash does NOT result in a memory wipe, then imho that feature will be HUGE in the business environment.

I remain hopeful until proven wrong.

Someone should write a Palm App that causes a total OS meltdown so we can see what the answer is.

Alessandro

RE: Transient Memories
Patrick @ 10/14/2004 7:27:56 PM #
Admittedly, I play around a lot with software on my T3, and I don't particularly stay away from the danger category. However, I have had to hard reset my device maybe 6 times over the last 4 years due only to software problems. Usually, the scenario is that you get into a soft reset loop that you can't get out of. A warm reset gets you back up, for a while, but you quickly reset again (due to the continuing software problem) and you're back into the loop. Only way to get out is hard reset.


RE: Transient Memories
madhatter @ 10/14/2004 11:38:33 PM #
"Usually, the scenario is that you get into a soft reset loop that you can't get out of"

I'm not a software programmer so I can't be sure, ( and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.. :-)) but.. if a program follows the guidelines set by PalmSource, then you should not get an endless loop. I also use a lot of "dangerous" software and have found that in almost all cases, the programs that cause the problems are the ones that have not always followed the "rules".

I believe that PalmSource has a certification program.. or at least it used to. I still use a lot of those programs, and have yet to have one of them cause a loop that would need a hard reset.

The power button /reset pin hard reset was a planned piece of the T5. So if you have a program going into an endless loop then the hard reset will wipe all data out.

I did learn one item of interest. In order to guarantee that the data on your device is not recoverable, you need to set a password on the T5. If a hard reset occurs with a password, then the data is not recoverable, but if there is no password, then it is possible that 3rd party programs such as norton utilities could extract information from the T5 even after a hard reset.

A Palm in hand is worth two in your pocket.

RE: Transient Memories
Patrick @ 10/15/2004 2:50:22 PM #
Limiting myself to only those programs that have passed some sort of manufacturers certification process would be worse than the original problem, IMO. There are plenty of high caliber, stable programs that are a joy to use but who have not bothered getting anybody's certification.

RE: Transient Memories
mikecane @ 10/16/2004 10:17:01 AM #
And things *can* happen that *do* result in a spontaneous hard reset. I've had it happen with me and I wasn't using software that was weird or otherwise dangerous. All you need is one damned fatal bug to do it or an incompatibility with, say, hacks (as was the case with my PIII). I've had such a spontaneous hard reset with the *TE*.

OS Upgrade Option

Rip @ 10/13/2004 12:52:23 PM #
Has anyone heard if this device can be upgraded to OS 6.1 at some later date. If so would this be a free upgrade or cost? Thanks.

Rip
ICQ# 3042286
RE: OS Upgrade Option
BuzzWriter @ 10/13/2004 2:53:19 PM #
Haven't heard, but the history of Palm OS upgrades doesn't make me optimistic.

Mac user, marketing communications specialist
Don't buy hoping for an upgrade
JShoo @ 10/13/2004 6:43:45 PM #
I don't know when if ever PalmOne has offered an OS upgrade. I wouldn't buy something because I was counting on an upgrade, unless the manufacturer had already promised it in writing
RE: OS Upgrade Option
bigjarom @ 10/13/2004 10:09:51 PM #
I upgraded my III from OS 3.0 to 3.1 to 3.3. I heard rumors that it could be upgraded further to 4.1, but that's ancient history.
RE: OS Upgrade Option
G M Fude @ 10/14/2004 4:11:35 AM #
Yep, I did the 4.1 upgrade (from OS 3.0 -- it was quite a leap!). But as you suggest, Jarom, that was nearly 3 years ago. Palm and its attitudes have changed a lot since then.
RE: OS Upgrade Option
kevinbgood @ 10/14/2004 6:11:18 AM #
Straight from the horses mouth, no upgrades will be available. They want you to buy the new devices.

Kev

Addicted to Palm

PalmOne's NO OS upgrade policy
WuWei @ 10/16/2004 6:21:32 PM #
Palm OS® Upgrades
palmOne no longer offers regular upgrades to the Palm OS on most devices. Why? Most of the differences between versions of the Palm OS simply enable new hardware functionality that is only important if you're also buying a new handheld. For example, Palm OS 5 is not available on earlier devices because it depends on the 5-way navigation control, a hardware feature not present on earlier handhelds.

http://kb.palmone.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=555,E=0000000000073391193,K=8774,Sxi=19,useTemplate=Case.tem,CASE=12363

RE: OS Upgrade Option
JonathanChoo @ 10/18/2004 5:54:25 AM #
The reason why Palm has not been giving out OS4 to OS5 upgrades is because PalmOS 4 devices CAN NOT run OS5 because of major hardware changes. OS4 is for 68k Dragonball CPUs while OS5 is for ARM5 CPUs.

Something many people here tend to forget when they decide to jump on the anti-Palm bandwagon.

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

Can I have some of what your smoking?

tthiel @ 10/13/2004 1:07:37 PM #
Slightly overpriced? Hw about grossly overpriced?

7.5 out of 10. Puh-lease. I guess because this is a Palm site you have to put the best face on things but really this is ridiculous.

RE: Can I have some of what your smoking?
hkklife @ 10/13/2004 2:52:40 PM #
This thing should have launched at not a penny more than $350 with a price drop to $300 by early '05. I would not suggest bundling the wi-fi card at $400 either as there are still plenty of users who would:
1. Want it w/o the bundled card for less
2. Complain about the fragility of the wi-fi card sticking out of their PDA.
3. A handful of neophyte users who would leave Wi-Fi (if not BT & Wi-FI) on at all times and kill the T5's battery.

As long as there are still T3s in the channel, one could get a T3 for ~$300-$330ish online or at Staples, have a cradle in the box and buy DTG 7 Premium and a 512mb SD card and still come in right at the same exact price point as the T5 and have more storage & voice recording to boot.

Dell X50v for $464

tthiel @ 10/13/2004 1:37:44 PM #
I just ordered the new Dell Axim 50v for $464. 624mhz, XGA screen, wireless, bluetooth, SD and compact flash card slots, usb cradle all for $64 more than the T5. Here's the link for ordering at this price.
http://www.vgapocketpc.com/archives...-coupon-464.php

RE: Dell X50v for $464
palmato @ 10/13/2004 1:52:15 PM #
So you're comparing a heavy discounted price with an official suggested retail price?
Thanks for spamming. Goodbye

RE: Dell X50v for $464
Gekko @ 10/13/2004 1:54:51 PM #

PalmOne/Source to Customers: "Who are you going to believe, us or your lying eyes???"



RE: Dell X50v for $464
JShoo @ 10/13/2004 6:17:51 PM #
Heavily discounted? That is only $35 under list price, 7%. I do agree though that the note should have said he only paid $99 more.
RE: Dell X50v for $464
G M Fude @ 10/14/2004 4:14:24 AM #
I think the Axim 50v has a VGA screen, not an XGA. Looks like nice hardware; shame about the OS.

Who's going to tip what the US discounters will sell the T5 for?

RE: Dell X50v for $464
JonathanChoo @ 10/14/2004 6:40:16 AM #
You are mad to use the argument $xxx more and you can get this...not anyone has an extra $xxx around to spend. If you have good for you.

If you want to compare price Vs price then compare the X50 mid-range (also $399) which has WiFi and bluetooth, 520Mhz, 64Mb RAM, 128Mb ROM, 167g, 1100mAh battery and QVGA screen to the T5 (bluetooth, 416Mhz, 64Mb RAM, 160Mb ROM, 145g, 1300mAh battery and HVGA screen).

Generic PDA > 5mx > Vx > m505 > N770C > T625C > NR70V > e310 > m550 > h2210 > T/T3 & h4150
StarTac > T28m > T39m > T68m > T610 > T630 > K700i

Power on/off question

BuzzWriter @ 10/13/2004 2:35:52 PM #
Great review. I still don't know if I'm willing to give up the voice recorder and slider's compact design, but this is terrific background in making my decision in a few weeks.

Question: There's one thing you didn't mention: power on/off control. I can't tell you how many times I've had to restore data to the handheld after something pressed against a key (not the switch) on my Tungsten T and ran the battery out - although Flash memory will make that less of a problem.

Zire-Zire71-Tungsten T (after 3 Zire71 units failed within weeks of purchase)-???

Mac user, marketing communications specialist

Missed points

Quickster @ 10/13/2004 3:12:41 PM #
While your review does highlight some of the things most everyone already knows, you did not mention any of the new problems already showing up in the T5. As an example, there is a soft reset loop problem that can only be stopped with a hard reset and loss of all your data. Another is with the date book and disappearing data. It is so bad that Palm has already created a T5 FAQ with known problems. And it appears to be growing daily as a few of the devices get into the hands of real users and not paid political reviewers.

RE: Missed points
Admin @ 10/14/2004 12:35:48 PM #
Hi Quickster, I'm not sure if you're referring to PIC, but we have always been completely independent. I am never paid to post news stories or reviews.

Write speed in drive mode

madmaxmedia @ 10/13/2004 3:13:25 PM #
"A 10 MB mp3 file took 35 seconds to transfer over via drive mode."

I would have considered actual innovation had they incorporated USB 2 into this new Palm. Using CardExport on my TC (which also requires no PC drivers), I transferred a 8 MB file in about 19 seconds (slightly faster, but about the same.)


Why can't Palm stick with one format/style?

bringer @ 10/13/2004 3:15:48 PM #
I am disappointed in the price vs feature set of this "upgrade" but after reading this review, the thing that sticks out in my mind is "Palm, why don't you stick to one style and go with it?". Besides the fact that they've changed the total dimensions and style of it that cause users to buy new peripherals no matter which Palm that they are upgrading from. They also ditched the Universal Connector which will annoy a lot of people (me included). Now I read that they have moved the speaker to the back - WHY WHY WHY, it was finally in a good spot and louder on the TT, T2 and T3 and now they are going away from it - doh! Can't they even decide on a reset pin size and position? Small, large, small, top, middle - doh! And what about SD card insert slot? Top, side, top, side - what's next? bottom? - doh!
It seems like every model is designed by a new group of designers who want to put their own touch on it. C'mon guys, let's stick to one basic design and stick with it for just a little while.

RE: Why can't Palm stick with one format/style?
JShoo @ 10/13/2004 6:36:19 PM #
I think that is an excellent question, especially as far as one engineering design. They could pay the price once for having a device which has dual slots, bluetooth, WiFi, removable battery, etc.

Then they could package and sell that in a number of different cases, some with keyboard, most with graffiti only.

I mean everyone keeps talking about how small PalmOne is so we can't expect them to do too much. OK. So why don't they build one or two good units and roll with that?

They could be like Apple and sell a bunch of different colored and shaped skins around the same core.

The advantage of doing this is that their engineering costs would go down, and so would their manufacturing costs because of volume.

RE: Why can't Palm stick with one format/style?
twizza @ 10/14/2004 10:16:49 AM #
My only questions to the original poster are:
1) Have you noticed that P1 hasnt released a device with the UC since the T3? That was at least a year now.
2) If your PDA is doign what you need it to do, why do you care if a new model comes out that you cannot upgrade to? Arent you pleased with teh purchase you made?

I for one do not mind that they changed again. P1 never said that they were sticking to the UC forever. Neither should they. Accessories are more wireless now than in times past as well, so why shuold it matter about the connector except for travel cables and cradles?

It is just silly to me that people want old tech to do new things and expect things not to change. The UC had flaws and P1 essentially made a new one. I have noticed already that this new connector has 3 less pins than the old one. And according to P1, will be able to do a/v output. The UC couldnt do that. Maybe, just maybe. P1 is thinking ahead to when a PalmOS PDA can be a replacement for a lower level desktop or laptop and are getting the connector in line with that philosophy. Why should they cater to someone(s) with accessories that are older. Maybe you should ask them for a converter so that you can use the old accessories still when you do upgrade. That would be better than blasting them for not catering to your wants.

antoinerjwright.com

RE: Why can't Palm stick with one format/style?
bringer @ 10/15/2004 11:00:09 AM #
1) Yes, I realize that but the TT, T2 and T3 all still had the UC and I was daring to hope that the T5 would as well. I personally don't have too many UC attachments (2 cradles and a travel charger) but there are people who have quite a few.
2) I know some people here who have purchased 20+ different PDAs since they have come into existance. I have only had 4 but it seems that every year to year and a half I have decided to upgrade because the new models had some features that I wanted to have. I have held onto my TT for awhile waiting for a model that is worth the upgrade. I like the T3 and will probably make that purchase now that it has dropped in price.

I don't mind if Palm moves onward and upward and changes their designs but what the heck is with the SD slot moving from the top to the side to the top to the side. And why, oh why would they make the reset pin like the old design where you need a pin? That seems like a backward move to me. People have complained that Palms were much quieter than other PDAs and Palm moved forward in the TT, T2 and T3 but again, it seems like a move backwards putting the speaker in the back.

It coulda, woulda, shoulda been....

kevinbgood @ 10/13/2004 5:28:45 PM #
I have contact with over 1000 people through a software development group. We closely follow the changes Palm makes to ist's handhelds in order to best develop our products. Well, the general comment about the T5 has been, "What? That's it? Where's the OS6 and wifi?"

Palm created a goose egg with the m130 device which touted a great screen, which in fact was a lie and it failed. Now I am afraid the T5 is the next goose egg for Palm. It had a huge amount of top secret hype, yet it falls short in many ways.

One redeeming quality is the ability to use it as a seperate drive. This is a great idea and may be the only saving grace for this particular model. After that, there isn't much to look at. It looks, feels and smells like a glorified TE.

Sorry to be so bold about the shortcomings of Palm, but facts are facts. If they don't put an OS6 wifi/bluetooth model out for the new year, yikes, I hate to think how everyone will respond.

Kev

Addicted to Palm

RE: It coulda, woulda, shoulda been....
Strider_mt2k @ 10/14/2004 5:49:27 PM #
Funny you mention that.

I vowed the m130 would be the last Palm-branded PDA I would buy.

Not for the screen debacle (I blithely disregarded that in my Palm loyalty stupor (we've all seen it in others.)), but because mine and the one I bought my wife literally physically crumbled apart a little over one year after they were purchased!

That and the 50 dollar m130 rebate on my wife's machine Palm weaseled out of.

Oops, almost forgot the wonky digitizer on my old m125.
(How many of you have one of THOSE with the same problem in a drawer somewhere?)

Don't answer that, we don't need another 500+ post and growing news topic! LOL

RE: It coulda, woulda, shoulda been....
A9700rO @ 10/15/2004 6:47:35 AM #
"If they don't put an OS6 wifi/bluetooth model out for the new year, yikes, I hate to think how everyone will respond."

Hehehe... the T|5 was complained about all on a global scale. If PalmOne does not release a handheld with what everyone is asking. It'd be a universal b!tchfest, they would lose a collosal amount of customers.

Clie-SJ22>>Tungsten | E >>> Clie-NX60>>Zire 72

SDIO Device product opportunity

notkidding @ 10/13/2004 5:29:56 PM #
I'm dissapointed in the omission of the vibrating alert feature from the T5, as are some others. But look at it this way - its a grand opportunity for some aftermarket manufacture to sell a microphone/buzzer/led SDIO module. I always keep a flash/led/vibe Springboard module in my Visor. Getting a record button and minisd slot in the same module would be interesting too.

Is the internal RAM a internal SD card??

batmon @ 10/13/2004 6:28:55 PM #
Did you get the chance to open it up and look? If it is a internal SD or miniSD, then we can replace with a bigger SD card which will be super nice!!

Why don't they use the standard miniUSB jack for sync? then with USB OTG we can connect any USB device to it to expand the possibilities. Things like USB Ethernet adapter, USB HDD, USB DVD burnner, etc. This is not too hard to do, isn't it?

===
http://www.vkick.com



RE: Is the internal RAM a internal SD card??
Gekko @ 10/13/2004 6:44:44 PM #

you can see internal photos at the FCC site. BTW, there is no internal real SD card.

RE: Is the internal RAM a internal SD card??
Admin @ 10/13/2004 8:12:51 PM #
The flash drive it is a Disk on chip system built into the handheld mainboard. It is not a removable SD card.
RE: Is the internal RAM a internal SD card??
timepilot84 @ 10/13/2004 9:01:18 PM #
In order to use USB devices, the Palm would have to act as a USB controller. Right now, the Palms that have min-USB connectors don't function in that capacity and thus can't be used to control other USB devices.


RE: Is the internal RAM a internal SD card??
twrock @ 10/15/2004 11:18:53 PM #
So please help me understand this a little better.

Would it not be possible to simply put two SD slots in this type of unit and let the user choose how much memory to have? Is it not possible to design these things so that the removable card can be accessed just like this T5's extra memory. I simply don't understand the hype of having this "huge" amount of memory built-in when I just bought a 1gb SD card for $49 (after rebate). Now that is really looking like a huge amount of memory. Or is it not possible to adequately access the SD memory? What are the problems?

RE: Is the internal RAM a internal SD card??
batmon @ 10/16/2004 1:55:56 AM #
Yeah... but if Palm uses USB OTG (on-the-go) then it can be either master or slave. I think it will be super cool if I can attach any kind of USB devices to it. Need drivers for those USB devices of course...

Too bad it is internal RAM on chip. This does not make sense at all since SD is so cheap and 128MB doesn't really do much if you want Plam to be a media device.

I just bought one!

Cheetah @ 10/13/2004 6:48:09 PM #
I was in Valley Fair in San Jose and walked up to the PalmOne station they have there. There were no T5's on display but they had every other model. I was going to just walk by but stopped and asked the saleman when he would have the T5. I was surprised when he said he had some NOW!

He reached down and brought out a square T5 box and sold it to me. He said that they received 10 yesterday and only 5 were left.

Maybe other PalmOne stations (like at airports) also have a few. I'm charging mine now.

RE: I just bought one!
lwehrung @ 10/13/2004 8:21:02 PM #
Congratulations! We look forward to hearing about your experience and viewing some pictures! :)

---------------------------------------
http://www.palmfocus.com
RE: I just bought one!
Gekko @ 10/13/2004 8:40:27 PM #

Cheetah - I'm curious on:

1. Status Bar/Screen Flicker?
2. Agenda View Bug?
3. Save Archive copy on PC Bug?

My T3 is dying! What do I do?

GG

RE: I just bought one!
ozz @ 10/14/2004 12:07:14 AM #
Why is your T3 dying?
RE: I just bought one!
Gekko @ 10/14/2004 9:03:33 AM #
>"Why is your T3 dying?"

1. Digitizer has drifted to almost unusable - especially when slider open.
2. Battery life is now very short.
3. Flip Cover Attachment broken - held with rubber band now. (I hate cases)
4. Nasty annoying Screen BUZZ.
5. SD Card Door broke off. (not a big deal).

Now I'm at a fork in the road. T5 or PPC.


RE: I just bought one!
CaptMyCapt @ 10/14/2004 10:36:19 AM #
Hey Gekko! At that fork in the road, if you decide to go to the Dark Side, will you still post in this forum, or will you spend your precious time fulfilling the literary appetites of the Dark Side proponents. I am able to tolerate your jabs at PalmOne as a user, as you have the right. In fact, I rather enjoyed reading what you had to say. But as a non-user, and more specifically, a Microsoft PDA user, well, that may be somewhat tough to swallow for some (re: ska).

I, Captain

"You will never make progress trying to sail into the wind - chart your course!"

RE: Gekko-- menu bar flicker
Cheetah @ 10/14/2004 10:56:51 AM #
I agree with the reviewer's comment about the menu bar at the bottom of the screen.

When ever you change screens (e.g. change applications) the menu bar appears to turn off and then instantly back on, appearing to "flicker". I think this is because the entire screen refreshes after any change to it (like reviewer says).

It is distracting, but I don't think it's a "bug"

Doesn't the T3 have this type of menu bar too?
It doesn't have this "flicker"?

RE: I just bought one!
Altema @ 10/14/2004 11:47:23 AM #
"Doesn't the T3 have this type of menu bar too?
It doesn't have this "flicker"?"

Yes, the T3 does have the bar, and yes it does "flicker" when you change apps. However, I would not describe it as a flicker, it is actually a blink. It would be logical for the OS to remove the menu bar in case the app tries to take over the entire screen, then redraw the menu bar if the app decides not to use that portion of the screen. I have some apps that use the screen where the menu bar usually sits, and some use it or leave it alone depending on their mode.

This behaviour is normal and has no impact on usability. There is no blink when you tap any of the menu icons, only when launching an app or switching directly between apps.

RE: I just bought one!
Altema @ 10/14/2004 12:15:01 PM #
Wow Gekko, sounds like you got a very bad one, then abused it!

> 1. Digitizer has drifted to almost unusable - especially when slider open.

Let me guess, you tap the menu bar and it responds too high...
I had that problem too. Email palmOne support now unless your warranty is gone, and let them know your status bar is not responding. If the problem persists after a hard reset, the will replace the unit.

> 2. Battery life is now very short.

And it will get worse because you will need to keep topping it off every chance you get. No hope here unless you get a new battery and are good at surgery, or the device is replaced due to problem # 1.

>3. Flip Cover Attachment broken - held with rubber band now. (I hate cases)

Is the cover broken, or the rectangular hole on the back of the handheld? A new cover can be ordered from palmOne or possibly gethightech.com. If the back of the handheld is damaged, get more rubber bands!

>4. Nasty annoying Screen BUZZ.

Never seen this problem in person, but have heard that it can be helped by underclocking with PXA Clocker 3.2. If you decide to play with overclocking, do NOT go above 600MHz unless you know how to disconnect your battery!

>5. SD Card Door broke off. (not a big deal).

Sorry, no easy solution here.

Man, I can see why you dislike Palms right now!

RE: 2 day review
Cheetah @ 10/15/2004 10:12:44 PM #
I really like my T5. For someone who does NOT have a T3, I think this is a good buy, although alittle expensive for the device (should be about $325). The vitural graffitti area alone is worth the price of the upgrade as it really improves my writting accuracy. The larger screen is great and the easy/fast rotate screen option is very useful.

However, I've had a lot of problems so far. The upgrade and first sync did not go smoothly (something that I've had no problem with upgrading Palms in the past). My unit also crashes frequently. Part of this is incompatibilities with poorly written applications (my assumption), but I've never had so many crashes before. Either the "minor" changes to the OS were more than minor, or there was some fundamental change in the structure/database in the OS.

Battery life seems improved compared to what I've read about the T3, and I really like the fact that there is no slider.

Overall I am very happy with the T5, but am frustrated with it's lack of stability.

RE: I just bought one!
rpali @ 12/5/2004 4:26:25 PM #
I too just bought a T5 but upgraded from a Vx. The thing is, I had very few application on it and when I synced, everything worked great and the only crashes I've had so far were caused one old app that I've since deleted. No problems at all...

Good review but...

vesther @ 10/13/2004 7:56:28 PM #
...I have to test-drive one of these babies, but I'm sure that I won't need it because I prefer Wi-Fi over Bluetooth. I'm not gonna get any more handhelds unless Palm OS Cobalt becomes a fare in the future.

Intel PXA27X, Motorola's ARM Processor, or Texas Instruments OMAP? Pick one Palm Enthusiasts, the choice should be yours. When handheld makers make you choose the ARM Processor, you win.

Lowest scoce for T series unit ever

tooele @ 10/13/2004 9:37:21 PM #
The Tungsten T got a 9.2 out of 10 from palminfocenter T2 got a 9 out of 10 and the T3 got a 8.5 out of 10. The T5 gets a 7.5
The T5 has some new features that look nice but with all the features that were left out and lack of WI-FI and OS 6 there is really no reason for T3 owners to upgrade.

RE: Lowest scoce for T series unit ever
twizza @ 10/14/2004 10:14:09 AM #
There are a few ways to look at the lower scores. Each T model was a refresh of the previous model, with the exception of the T3 and T1 the others were refreshings. They would not have benefited from doing things extrodinarly better than the previous model. P1 has a tendancy to release, then release and hone with the next. Maybe the T5 is doing the same thing, just not in the way that people EXPECTED the T5 to be.

antoinerjwright.com
RE: Lowest scoce for T series unit ever
Patrick @ 10/14/2004 10:34:00 PM #
When I bought my m515, I couldn't believe how nice the screen was in comparison to my current device, the Vx.

When I bought my T|T, again the screen was absolutely superb, a quantum leap, above the m515.

When I bought my T|T3, you guessed it, another huge jump in screen quality and size.

These were all clear and very obvious improvments. Must-haves.

I can't find anything, anything at all, about the T5 that screams "must have". There are, however, a bunch of stuff I'd have to give up if I went from my T3 to the T5. I've never had that happen before.


Cheap

UncleRedz @ 10/14/2004 2:03:55 AM #
Good review, but I have to agree with the pre-release speculation about this unit being a TE2, it sertanly looks like one. To me the Zire 72 is still the most exciting PalmOne device around.

And from a high end device, wouldn't you at least expect a hotsync cradle? Hasn't that been one of the main distinctions between low end and high end?

Cheers!

Geeessshhh---I was so expecting a great T5--now let down!

Stealthfixr @ 10/14/2004 8:21:02 PM #
I've been faithfully using my m515 for the past 3+ years, every single day. And, I've been a Palm user since 1999. My m515 is getting a little long in the tooth, but I held out buying anything new because of problems with the T3 and the rumored T4/5 on the horizon.

Not having the vibrate alarm is a serious oversight--really a show stopper--for me. How can I carry a T5 into meetings, say in my front pants pocket, and know when the alarm goes off? My m515's vibrate alarm saves me from being late all of the time!

Not having OS 6/Cobalt is a little bit of a letdown, and not having Wifi is too bad since I now have a wireless network at home. Like others, the T5 does not seem like much of an upgrade, and defintely regresses in several ways.

Now I am considering a Pocket PC seriously, which I did not want to do since I know Grafiti so well, have a fair amount of purchased Palm software/accessories, and like the portability of Palms. I hope we start hearing rumors of a T6 really soon or I am jumping from the Palm ship.

RE: Geeessshhh---I was so expecting a great T5--now let down
twizza @ 10/14/2004 11:02:04 PM #
Wanna know somtihng weird? The rx3715 that I own doesnt have a vibrating alarm and it cost $500 and has BT and Wifi. I guess HP is behind the times too ;)

antoinerjwright.com
Expectations...
Gekko @ 10/14/2004 11:24:40 PM #

"Blessed is the man who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed." - Alexander Pope



Okay, Palm--you've got another year outta me
Stealthfixr @ 10/17/2004 12:42:57 PM #
I was in my local Staples yesterday, and they had the T3 on sale for $298. I bought it, and with a little effort yesterday, have everything transfered from my m515. I am impressed with it, even if it is year old technology.

So, PalmOne, my comment is this: bring back the vibrate alarm, include wifi, and I'll buy another Palm device in a year or so. If not, I'll transition to PPC.

Do Bluetooth and Drive Mode work together?

zenlon @ 10/15/2004 7:12:49 AM #
One thing that I have yet to discover or see covered in any reviews or discussions is the following (I may have missed it somewhere):

Can you use Bluetooth and Drive Mode together? In other words, can you exchange files with this new Drive Mode without carrying around a connecting cable?

By the way, thanks for the good T5 review, as it clarifies a great deal.

__________
this too shall pass

RE: Do Bluetooth and Drive Mode work together?
Admin @ 10/16/2004 12:33:26 PM #
I asked this same question to my palmOne rep during a briefing, he thought it was a great idea but it has not been implemented on the T5. Drive Mode requires the USB cable.

-Ryan

RE: Do Bluetooth and Drive Mode work together?
mikecane @ 10/16/2004 4:09:50 PM #
Ach! Next rev... (or, knowing p1, *never*! Watch it get to PPC, however...)

RE: Do Bluetooth and Drive Mode work together?
T. @ 10/16/2004 5:58:54 PM #
Is the general consensus that this would be a software/operating system only issue or likely a hardware limitation?

Tech porn: More T5 pics

mikecane @ 10/15/2004 9:47:03 AM #
http://www.palmfocus.com/tungstent5pics.htm

-- does not look much larger than the TE. My God, the Zod looks humongous in comparison!

RE: Tech porn: More T5 pics
G M Fude @ 10/15/2004 10:30:27 PM #
You're right... I always thought a Zodiac was just a tad larger than the Palms. Evidently from these photos it's rather a big jump in size. But the T5 is only a smidgin larger than a closed T3 -- that's impressive for the same sized screen.

Good comparison photos. Now I'm just waiting for some guy with more money than brains to disassemble a T5 and post some pics somewhere on the 'Net.

RE: Tech porn: More T5 pics
Gekko @ 10/16/2004 8:57:37 AM #

GM Fudge - the FCC site has internal pics.

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

enter "O3W" in Grantee.

PalmOne may lose a loyal customer

daigut @ 10/15/2004 10:31:41 AM #
I would calm myself a loyal customer to Palm/ PalmOne, as I started using Palm PDAs since PalmPilot and now I am using TT3. However, since Palmone is hesitated to produce a T3 like PDA with Wifi built-in, I may switch to other options (most likely PPC, as there's not much choice) in the near future...
RE: PalmOne may lose a loyal customer
ricoh tek @ 10/15/2004 10:46:29 PM #
I have an iPaq 5555 with built in 802.11b, 2 cases, car charger, user replaceable battery and a ton of software, original box...yadda...yadda. Interested in a trade? The company I work for now is starting to use Palm for data collection in the field.
Email me if interested, we can swap pictures and condition of units. (mine is in great shape!)

T5

GreggAUS @ 10/15/2004 10:16:18 PM #
At last. A color Handera. Palm, what took you so long?

RE: T5
twrock @ 10/15/2004 11:33:32 PM #
I truly believe that if HandEra could have afforded to stay in the business, we'd have seen a far superior PalmOS unit than the T5 quite a while ago. The TRG/HandEra people only released two units (if memory serves me correctly) and both were highly innovative. I sure do miss those guys.

RE: T5
mikecane @ 10/16/2004 10:20:41 AM #
Well, at the very least it would have had a CF slot. *sigh* CF is so inexpensive...

RE: T5
Patrick @ 10/16/2004 2:44:00 PM #
The price differential I'm seeing these days between SD and CF is really not very significant. Used to be more, but today I'd really rather have double SD than SD+CF.

Double SD would allow a WiFi card and a memory card to be installed at the same time, which would be very useful (that is, if Palm ever has the gonads to produce another high-end machine without built-in WiFi).

RE: T5
mikecane @ 10/16/2004 4:06:36 PM #
Don't know where you've been looking, but CompUSA just had a sale last week and the CFs were *half* the price of the same MB SDs!

Plus, having more pins, a CF WiFi card would, I think, surpass an SD one in performance. (And yet, isn't even that point moot -- as if there'd be *drivers*! Hysterical, frustrated laughter over p1's lousing up 3rd-party WiFi availability/compatibility...)

Colligan speaks about the new TE2 (oops! T5)

mikecane @ 10/16/2004 10:21:23 AM #
This is what he apparently emailed to the ever-excellent site http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/

HARDWARE: Ed Colligan tells Palm Addict WiFi SD Card support for the T5 is coming soon

The early reviews of the T5 have been very positive on the product, and we know it will meet the needs of a large number of customers. I think there will be a lot of customers that value the vast memory store, and beautiful display much more than WiFi. In addition, with Bluetooth support you can use a Bluetooth enabled phone for wireless connectivity if you choose. And, we do have WiFi SD card support coming soon. All in all, it is an elegant design with great functionality, and I think we will be pleased with the sales.

- Ed Colligan, President of PalmOne

Message from Ed Colligan, President of Palm One to Palm Addict

================

My Comment:

Hey, Ed! Remember "Delight the customer"? How about delighting some of *us* with a Cobalt unit that has WiFi/BT built-in?! And maybe throw in a removeable battery too.

RE: Colligan speaks about the new TE2 (oops! T5)
Foo Fighter @ 10/16/2004 10:40:20 AM #
Remember Ed said this, as they are famous last words. T5 sales will prove to be disappointing...much like the product itself.

-------------------------------
Editor, http://Pocketfactory.com
Contributing Editor, http://digitalmediathoughts.com
RE: Colligan speaks about the new TE2 (oops! T5)
mikecane @ 10/16/2004 4:08:43 PM #
Are you no longer enamored of it? Thought you said you'd get one. I still want one ($ willing), but the bug reports and stability problems worry me...

I challenge Ed Colligan
mikecane @ 10/17/2004 2:15:59 PM #
And every OTHER palmOne employee:

1) Stop using your Treo

2) Start using the new Tungsten T(coughcough)5

3) Let's see how YOU guys like this unit!

Seems from firsthand *owner* accounts --

http://tinyurl.com/533y6

-- that the Great Bird of palmOne dropped a huge turd into the market.

TE vs m515

mikecane @ 10/16/2004 10:26:33 AM #
Relevant here because the TE2 (dammit, I mean the T5!) has the same cover flap, same buttons, and probably same lousy paint job:

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2004/10/user_thought_li.html

Sad, but true...

oscarfowler @ 10/16/2004 1:29:44 PM #
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm starting to look at PPC devices... Not only have I been a supporter of Palm for many years now, but I tried and hated a PPC device a few years ago (Compaq iPaq -- top of the line at the time). I just hated the Windows-esque OS and thought it was much more cumbersome and awkward than PalmOS.

However, PPC devices have obviously caught-up or surpassed Palm devices in terms of hardware capabilities, size, battery life and cost. The only remaining question is whether or not the OS has improved much in the last few years (it'll be easy enough to find out the next time I'm in CompUSA...)

I'm so terribly disappointed in Palm for dropping the ball so thoroughly. The OS has stagnated (Address book is essentially the same as in OS3 -- amazing!!) for years now, and there's no sight of it's replacement or really any indication of whether it'll be too-little-too-late when and if it does show up. Meanwhile, all of the innovators in Palm hardware have now left the marketplace. Goodbye Sony, you were Palm's final shining hope...

I so wanted to believe that Palm had the drive and innovation to pull through this on it's own, but the T5 says otherwise. It's too late for little baby steps, folks, and I'm afraid we're about to see another market fall to the Microsoft behemoth. In this case, though, I think the blame falls squarely on Palm. They had a huge lead and an incredibly supportive user and development base, and both are fading into memory.

*sigh*



RE: Sad, but true...
JonathanChoo @ 10/16/2004 3:33:20 PM #
PPC has ALWAYS surpassed PalmOS in terms of hardware specifications except the odd pass year so why now?
RE: Sad, but true...
oscarfowler @ 10/18/2004 1:13:35 AM #
Although the PPC devices typically had faster processors and more memory, this was more than offset by the fact that the OS was/is much more resource-hungry. Palm devices usually feel faster despite having less in terms of CPU and memory, which is great for battery life.

Palm, surprisingly, had nicer and higher-resolution screens earlier on (maybe because they could afford to put the money into that instead of CPU/memory). The devices were generally more innovative (mostly thanks to Handera and Sony), and, as usual, Microsoft & Co. have played the game of Copy & Claim to Innovate.

Anyway, at this point Palm hardware innovation has been at a standstill for so long that the PPC devices have surpassed the competition in essentially all areas. Microsoft's OS is still ridiculously resource-hungry and kludgy, but the hardware has gotten so good that it hardly matters anymore (which is what they usually count on, I believe).

The only thing that Palm may still have in its favor is it's cleaner and more intuitive OS. I'm not sure yet, as I haven't played with the lastest PPC devices, but certainly plan to sometime soon.


RE: Sad, but true...
JonathanChoo @ 10/20/2004 3:17:17 PM #
My h4150 with the same processor as the T3 and only QVGA screen respond far slower compared to my T3.

I hope they have something better soon

DrJohnClieUser @ 10/16/2004 10:38:33 PM #
I've been a palm user since the PalmPilot Pro. I brag that I could recognize it's genius back then and would be as common as a watch one day. I was pretty much right. I also mocked the Microsoft Pocket os, always loyal to palmos. Sony left them in the dust years ago, and I made the switch to a clie UX50 for the memory, clamshell, and wifi. As a physician, I use it for my schedule, contacts daily. I have epocrates to look up drugs and make sure there are no drug interactions. I also have clinical consult books, my bible, and notes loaded. My biggest use lately has been Bluefish Rx where I can order medications, transmit with wifi to the server where they are faxed to the selected pharmacy. It works so well! Problem is, I would love to add more programs but I am limited by the memory. I really want to add the full epocrates suite, but not enough memory. I love my clie, but it has broken once and I am ready to buy a replacement, and wouldn't you know it but there actually is no good replacement out there. How strange, there is not one out there good enough to actually WANT. Other than the new OLED version by sony but it's in japanese only... bummer.
I was very excited about the T5 coming out but it's useless to me. Memory will be filled too fast so I need expansion memory... only if I have a wifi card in there I can't have extra memory! How crazy! All it would really take is a second card slot for memory and one for in/out for wifi or built in wifi, but noooooo.
My biggest complaint is how limiting these things are. There is infinite potential, but it's limited by the lack of memory and expansion memory. Not all application run well off cards, some not at all. I just can't understand why it is like this. It's so amazingly versitile, but is simply handicaped by the lack of memory and memory expansion, or if you have the memory by darn you CAN'T use the darn wifi card at the same time! Please stop doing this.
Bluetooth is neat, but not strong enough to send my prescription to the wife. The lack of memory is the only thing stopping me from spending money on more software for the device, and from upgrading to another device. There is NO upgrade for my UX, nothing even to wish for except the VZ90 which isn't even in dnglish yet.
I hope there is somethign coming soon, or I'm going to probably switch to Axim50v. I'll have to purchase everything over agian, but it's a small price to pay.
Palm, please come out with a stronger product with wifi or 2 expansion slots! Please, Please, Please! The cell phone screen is too small to do any good, and the T5 leaves too much lacking.



RE: I hope they have something better soon
PALMNUTZ @ 10/18/2004 1:02:01 AM #
Yes, I don't understand why Palm could not have included 2 SD I/O slots, 1 CF slot, integrated WIFI, 1GB internal memory and a 2000 milliamp vibrating battery in the case, with voice recording, microphone, light for charging, front speaker, universal connector, cradle, quality stylus, Cobalt 6 with multi-tasking and unlimited categories, native file support form mpegs in a metal case the size and shape of the m515, all for say $200 American.

Until Palm smartens up, I am going to use my Bic Pen, Post-It Notes, an abacus or slide ruler, a 12 volt car battery, a walkie-talkie or 2 cans connected with a string, my transistor radio, my dictaphone, bags of AA batteries and maps, plenty of stamps and my kaleidoscope.

Or I'll use the T3 I just bought, and be very happy and grateful that Palm created such a great PDA, and when Palm creates a significantly better PDA than the T3, I'll buy it and use it with joy.

Those who need a PDA with wi-fi NOW (TODAY), buy one with wi-fi, and get on with your life.

Can you believe how bloated our expectations have gotten and how spoiled we've become?

It reminds me of the story of the guy who went to the corner store to buy some milk, and complained to the clerk that the quart of milk was $3 there, whereas it was only $1 in another store down the block. The clerk asked him why he didn't buy the milk in the other store. He replied the other store was fresh out of milk. The clerk replied that when his store was out of milk, his milk cost only 50 cents.

The moral of the story? It doesn't matter what better thing there will be in the future, because we live in the present. So get the thing now that meets your present needs. Speculating on what Palm will create in the future is a waste of time because we have no control over their decisions. Waiting for something better means you'll be going without now. It makes no sense.


RE: I hope they have something better soon
oscarfowler @ 10/18/2004 7:18:31 AM #
I don't disagree with much of what you've written. That said, you have to realize people are venting their frustration at the fact that they're being forced to make a very difficult choice: stick with Palm, which many have made a large financial, educational, and even emotional investment in, but lose out on functionality they really need (or would simply like); or switch to Microsoft and get their functional needs met and be at the current state of the art, but start from scratch with software and knowledge and possibly make an emotionally dissatisfying decision.

It's annoying at best that many of us are being forced to make that decision by Palm. Hopefully, when the day comes for you to make that choice you won't feel as upset about it, but with a name like "Palmnutz" I really doubt it.

RE: I hope they have something better soon
PALMNUTZ @ 10/19/2004 12:42:30 AM #
OscarFowler:

I understand and agree, on one level, with everything you said. But isn't it also clear that it's silly to make an emotional investment in a piece of technology? It's not a living, breathing friend, lover, member of a family or even human being. It's just a means to an end.

And while I have loved working with Sharp, Handspring and Palm PDA's, I'm sure I'll also love any PDA that comes next, as long as it does what I need or want it to do. The only real drawback--and here I fully agree with you---is the money and time which may be needed to invest in learning to use a different technology and to buy the software that will run on it.

By the way, PALMNUTZ is not my real name. It's just a pun. There are nuts that grow on Palm trees, and they are mighty tasty. I have been and still am crazy about the Palm OS and my current T3, but I'm sure I can learn to love something else if it gives me demonstrable real benefits over the T3. So, don't judge a book by its cover. Cheers!

And don't give up on Palm yet. They may well come to their senses and deliver a knock-out PDA that matches or exceeds the features of a PPC, even as soon as next year. Even if Palm's T5 sales will be good, they obviously will not be as good as they would have been had the T5 included all the T3's features plus WIFI, and there may still be some executive at Palm---who has not had too many Martinis or smoked too much crack cocaine---who realizes the T5 is a stinker, Palm has screwed itself, and must give the public what it needs and wants, or go the way of the Dodo bird. But that is mostly Palm's problem---not yours or mine. We are adaptable. We can learn to use new technology. Neither you nor I signed a lifetime contract to use Palms. None of us should be loyal to a bunch of integrated circuits or a company that tries to sell us what they want, instead of meeting the needs of the marketplace.

RE: I hope they have something better soon
oscarfowler @ 10/19/2004 8:59:16 PM #
Yep, it's silly to make an emotional attachment in any innanimate object, and yet many of us do it. My 1970 Mustang convertible will always be my first love, for instance... =)



RE: I hope they have something better soon
The_Voice_of_Reason @ 10/19/2004 10:16:20 PM #
DrJohnClieUser: I know EXACTLY how you feel. I was in a similar position and made the decision to stock up on CLIEs because Palm's offerings just haven't cut it (for at least three years). And despite its OLED screen, the new CLIE is actually a step DOWN in terms of functionality compared to the UX50. But for me - for now - PPC's superior hardware doesn't justify dumping PalmOS. It's sad to see so many hardcore Palm users being driven away from the platform like this.

And to the doofus that replied to your comment above: no, PDAs aren't really important in the big scheme of things. But neither are cars, sports teams, or any of the other "brands" people develop attachments to. It's nice to see you aren't frustrated the way the rest of us are by Palm's bizarre, self-destructive moves. You must be a very "special" person. No, really.



******************************************************************
Sony CLIE UX100: 128 MB real RAM, OLED screen. All the PDA anyone really ever wanted.

RE: I hope they have something better soon
PALMNUTZ @ 10/20/2004 2:06:55 AM #
To the alleged "Voice of Reason":

You admit you develop emotional attachments illogically and irrationally to things that don't really matter to your life, like sports teams and cars, and you call me a "Doofus" because I suggest people choose the PDA that will meet their needs and enjoy it? And you do that even after I agree that it would be disappointing as far as the investment one would have to make in learning a different technology and buying new software?

That's pretty funny!

I guess one cannot expect any better behaviour from someone like you who candidly admits they're irrational and illogical. I would counsel you not to call people you don't know insulting names, but that would be a waste of time. One can't expect someone who is irrational and has no manners to behave decently like a normal person. And it doesn't take any courage to anonymously call people names in an internet discussion forum. Of course, if you did call me a name to my face in person, I would gladly fix your clock. If you've called people names to their faces in person, I'm sure you've already found out the consequences. Maybe, that's why you prefer to hide when you spew your insults. Very brave of you!

So please call me and anyone else you might like, some more silly names. It demonstrates clearly how mature you are. You calling other people names says a heck of alot more about the kind of a person that you are, than the people you are attacking.

Of course, there is probably a moderator for this forum. So if you like to call me some more names, please go ahead. It will be my pleasure to begin the process of banning you from discussions on this website. And the people here who respect people with manners, will not miss your "valuable" contributions.

RE: I hope they have something better soon
PALMNUTZ @ 10/21/2004 10:58:52 PM #
To the alleged "Voice of Reason":

I see that the people who run the site removed 2 of your more offensive comments from the thread. Your posts deserved removal due to the insults (obscene words) you used. They left one of your posts with an inappropriate word in it, but the word "doofus," I've got to admit, it's a very funny word! It's fun just to say it! And I don't resent polite criticism even when for the sake of emphasis, it parts for a time with reality.

I see your other comments elsewhere often use bad language. I guess the words you use are just part of your nature, and other people should accept and understand you for the way you are. Since what you say about others, says more about you than them, we won't worry at all about it and I don't feel any need to respond in the future to any of your "incisive" comments. We'll just continue to have your inappropriate, obscene posts removed, whenever it is appropriate to do so, and we feel like it. Have a nice day!

T-5 Review

cliff_l @ 10/18/2004 7:29:24 PM #
I still can't get over all the stuff they (Palm-One) left out of the T-5, that's taken for granted in the T-3. Thanks to your great pics, I noticed one more thing....They reverted back to an old style stylus, more akin to what's on a M-505,500 Where's the spring loaded stylus, that made the Tungsten so inovative? the lack of a universal connector is a big turn off, as well....I think I'll keep my T-3 and wait for the T-6!

RE: T-5 Review
PALMNUTZ @ 10/19/2004 1:03:42 AM #
Yes, the more of us who keep our T3's and decline to buy T5's, the better the chance that Palm will accelerate the deployment of the T7. Unfortunately, given the T5's feature set, the T7 will probably resemble the Etch-A-Sketch I used when I was 4 years old. At least, the learning curve will not be steep.

T5 is really shipping. Mine is here.

Bakedon21 @ 10/19/2004 4:35:23 PM #
I ordered Sunday night, and its here now. I actually bought a Pocket PC iPAQ 4155 because of all the talk on the forum. It really made me think about what a good value PPC is and I wanted to try PPC another time after switching a while back. I would also order the new Dell and use the iPaq while I waited for it to arrive. Based on how I liked the T5, I decided I would return the one that I didnt like (or EBay).

After a week with the PPC, the Palm just works so much better. I found the WiFi was a novelty as I just go to work and come home and have internet where ever I go. On the road, I can use my Treo 600 for directions or something. Id imagine students or frequent Starbucks users would really use it but I just dont.

The T5 is everything I need. All I wanted was a T3 with no slider, and thats what this is. The added battery and memory is just a bonus. If you have a T3, I see no reason to upgrade. But I love it so far.

A couple observations:
- There is no LED. I dont care because it wasnt useful anyway, but its would be nice to have.
- Great stylus. The extra length helps both the battery and the stylus. Very comfortable to use for a long time. This is what killed Sony for me (and their fonts).
- Bootup is 2x as long on soft reset. Hard reset/inital bootup is 4x. Probably because its formatting the flash and deleting other languages after you choose one. I know this because...
- No calssic grafitti. Even trying to copy the files over locked mine up requiring a hard reset.
- Treo style navigation is nice. I like the Favorites launcher they took from the Treo also.
- Quick center press doesnt give the time anymore. Ill miss this. It doesnt do anything when the power is off.
- Press and hold the center while its on brings up the alert manager and doesnt take you "home". I guess thats why they make one of the buttons Home now.
- The system speed, especially the filesystem feels at least 2x faster. I get this from Docs to Go. This is the feel from opening a native Excel file, or quick read of the card.
- The "Files" application is only somewhat useful. It would be good for beginners because it nicely arranges your docs, pics , etc. But you cant manipulate applications, the actual PRC. You will need McFile or equivelent.

Thats about it for now, but hopefully Ive convinced someone to get one, or not. Slide loving T3 owners would be taking a step back, especially if you use the battery backpack (power to go).

Im cancelling my Dell x50v order, PPC just doesnt do it for me. It still has the same useability problems, odd quirks and lack of attention to detail back when I tried an iPaq 3800. They are just smaller now and have wifi. Your mileage may vary of course and if you can, you should try a PPC. I would be curious to know how many come back. This was my 3rd time trying the OS.


RE: T5 is really shipping. Mine is here.
Bakedon21 @ 10/19/2004 5:17:18 PM #
Oh, I ordered from the PalmOne store. No special reason, I just wanted the free hardcase and overnight shipping. I thought it would appear at Office Max or something first.

RE: T5 is really shipping. Mine is here.
tekhnogod @ 10/25/2004 11:45:21 AM #
Its currently at office max, staples but on backorder from bestbuy.

My T5 Fondle Report: A good machine!

mikecane @ 10/21/2004 10:13:44 AM #

Garnet (specifically T5) vs Cobalt

tekhnogod @ 10/25/2004 10:53:34 AM #
I've read the Cobalt preview from this site and it really doesn't persuade me in anyway to wait for a Cobalt powered Palm device. I may have missed something but all it seems to offer is multitasking. All other things can be supplemented by software add-ons. Native 320x320 resolution? built in bluetooth? better security? This is great and all for the developers. But what does the common consumer like myself benefit from this? Nothing that I can see. But to clarify what kind of consumer I am. I just want something that has bluetooth (can't use 802.11b, it interferes with my 2.4ghz cordless phones), plays mp3s, organize my schedule and view spreadsheets. And of course something that is pocketable....meaning no pocket pc! Some of those pocket pcs have a VGA resolution....what are they thinking which part of "pocket" pc they dont understand. If I wanted to travel with a computer that has a large screen, why dont I just bring along my IBM T40?

T3 Ain't All It's Cracked Up To Be - Thanx for the T5

kal0el @ 10/28/2004 4:50:03 PM #
G'Day,

Frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about. I've had a T3 since they were introduced last fall. In fact, I may be one of the first in Canada to get one, as I bought mine in the States (the exchange rate was to die for) in early October 2003. I immediately had problems.

The first was so simple, I'm surprised no one at palmOne had enough foresight to predict it. I've got this great new T3. I buy this nifty portfolio for it (from palmOne). I put the two together, using the velcro palmOne provided, and poof - the first time I try to remove the T3 from the portfolio, the velcro rips the slider right off the T3! Believe it! palmOne was gracious enough to replace the T3 free of charge, and offered to take back the portfolio, but I decided I wasn't licked yet. I found that if I used the backing from my old T hardcase, I could velcro it to the portfolio, and just slip the T3 in & out of the hardcase back. Tada!

However, there's no denying I was on my second T3 within days of opening it.

The slider, to me, is nothing more than a gimmick:

1) You can't use the full screen unless you open the slider.
One of the main reasons I got the T3 was for the larger screen. I had it open at least 90% of the time.

2) The slider wouldn't stay open.
It would close, partially or fully, on its own during normal use (i.e., there was no way to "lock" it open).

3) The power button is in the wrong place.
Try turning the T3 off, and keeping the slider open.

4) Ma always said I had a screw loose.
This is a common problem documented by many T3 users.

5) The slider is just plain flimsy.
Every had your T3 slider off? I have, unfortunately. Trust me - there's little to it. Robust? Ha!

Don't get me wrong, the T3 has a lot going for it. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise. However, my troubles didn't stop with the slider.

We were warned by PalmInfoCenter's write-up about battery life on the T3. It influenced me to get the PowerToGo unit.

An aside here:

Folks, I'm rougher than anyone I know personally on PDA's. You can take the power estimates from manufacturers, users, forums, etc., and cut the worst of them in half - I use up more juice on a daily basis. If I listed for you all the things I do with my Palm - well, we don't have all day.

The PowerToGo unit is the best option I've ever bought for a PDA. Even with my record-breaking power consumption, I have never run into a situation where the T3 battery AND the PowerToGo weren't enough. And folks, I've run a lot of PDA's into the ground.

Those of you concerned about battery life on any Palm with the universal connector - spend the money for the PowerToGo - it's absolutely worth it.

Back to my T3 problems ...

Recently, I found my T3 crashing too frequently to make it useable. In the end, the last straw was when I performed a hard reset, put the T3 in its cradle, left it alone, and literally 2 minutes later had a fatal exception. Even palmOne scratched their heads when I called them about it.

I'll give palmOne Customer Service credit though. They did replace it for free (I only had to pay to ship it to them - about $10).

But now here I am. One year later. On my third, count them, 3rd T3. It's brand new. I haven't even opened it yet. Why? Because I'm not sure I should.

I look at the T5, and I understand folks disappointment with it. However, not every PDA has to be built for the power user. I agree with, to a point, the argument that the "Cadillac", top-of-the-line Palm should have everything, However, I believe there to be a relatively small fraction of users in the Palm community that actually need everything in one unit. I'm one of the heaviest Palm users around, and I have no need for wireless communication at all. I consider the e-mail feature to be superfluous. The OS rev level means little to me (and I'm a career-long IT professional (you know, from way back when, when computers booted from 2" magtape, and you had state-of-the-art equipment is you used a punch-card systems, as opposed to a pencil-card system, and paper-tape was viable media)). I'm much more concerned with what the unit can do - not the name of the OS.

I look at the T5 from a glass-half-full perspective. It has almost everything the T3 does. It's only missing the LED, the VIBRATE function, and VOICE MEMO. The fact the it does not have the slider is a bonus for me. I can live without the LED (since Palm stopped having the LED indicate the charge status, it's been useless anyway). The vibrate function is NOT more subtle in a meeting (ever have a Palm dance around the boardroom table?). As far as the voice memo is concerned, well I have used that function three times in the year I've had my T3. I can live without it (or buy a cheap replacement).

Let's not forget that the T5 adds DRIVE MODE. That could prove quite handy.

Anyway, to make a long story short (I know - too late), just because the T5 doesn't have everything in it you think you want, let's face it, most of that stuff you won't use anyway (who needs a rear air conditioner in a mini-van?). Toys, trinkets, and gimmicks are not what I look for in a PDA. I look for how well it fits my needs.

The short version - the T5 meets my needs better than the T3. So lay off!

Thanx for your attention.

Rebuttals?

David Pogue / NYT T5 review

beneden @ 11/5/2004 3:27:01 AM #
Have a look at the last NYT Circuits (www.nyt.com) - excellent David Pogue bashes the T5 completely, preferring the T3 instead. (He happens to like the slider, BTW.)

Ben

Photographer, using Palm M515 and can't decide on what next..
http://www.beneden.com/wedding/uk/london/

T5 priced lower than T3 at Vancouver store...

dona83 @ 11/11/2004 2:43:28 AM #
Sorry I don't know how to use the tinyurl thingy but take a look at this:

http://www.atic.ca/index.php?page=Products&cat=29
(Prices are in canadian dollars)

The T3 ($460) is more expensive than the T5 ($445)... I guess everyone would agree that that's the way it should be. T5 is a great device, don't get me wrong, but I think it's more appropriate the price it below the T3...



RE: T5 priced lower than T3 at Vancouver store...
Altema @ 11/11/2004 10:30:53 AM #
Another indication of the T3's value is that it kept it's introductory price for the entire first year.

RE: T5 priced lower than T3 at Vancouver store...
rpali @ 12/5/2004 4:51:38 PM #
Either it was a mistake or they've changed their mind. Now, the T5 is $435 and the T3 $385.

T5 tops CNET's must have gadget list

dona83 @ 11/25/2004 4:04:45 PM #
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-8900_7-1008327-1.html?tag=cnetfd.ld

Surprising. I wonder how the general public (aka sans us overly criticizng geeks lol) thinks about the T5.

Blazer Browser Problem

djrony @ 4/13/2005 7:36:26 PM #
Hallo

I've got a Tungsten T5 and i'm using a bluetooth modem
to access the web.In some web pages a window appears on
my screen and with the following text:

BROWSER ERROR

Page too large to be displayed.


What can I do to solve this problem?
Is there any browser for T5 more powerfull than Blazer??

Thanks in Advance.

P.S. (I'm not sure I did the right movement when I bought T5.
Lots of FATAL ERRORS and FATAL EXCEPTIONS.
In my opinion it's a little bit unstable)


Tungsten T5

Selma @ 5/14/2005 10:00:05 AM #
This is my first use of a PalmOne. Though I do not use it to check my email or log on to the web (my sprint phone does all that for me), my main goal was ebooks and music and being that I am a very busy person all of the contact/calender/memo/notes and the fact that it opens and works with Word and Excel and can view PowerPoint, well that is what sold me. Being an avid reader, I love that I can buy ebooks at a fraction of the print cost, I can download to my PalmDesktop and then synchronize, wow, life is good. The only disappointment was that it has no voice memo. Overall I am impressed, and trust me very few things impress me!
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